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MrLost Offline OP
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I'm really not a newbie here, but it's been awhile since I posted. The reason being that it seemed that things were working.
You can read my situation linked below, but, in a nut shell, I got the ILYBNILWY speech about three years ago. We tried to councilors, both of which failed. The first one was just a bad experience, the second was we did nothing to improve our situation.

My wife would ask for divorce and I would ask her to not do it. She would not say anything, but it didn't come up again until...something bad would happen (usually financially) and it would come up again. This happened three times.

Then...

I read DB and started following the steps in that book. We made some progress. Then on November 22nd she told me that she wanted to work it out. She said that we owe it to our children to do everything we could to fix it. She said that she did not want sex right now, but she wanted to act as a married couple in every other way. SHE even suggested that we purchase new wedding bands as a symbolic gesture. At the jewelry store I went to the rest room and when I was rounding the corner she was telling the girl behind the counter the story. She sounded generally excited.

Everything seemed great. I was the happiest I'd been in a long time. Everyone noticed the difference in her, me, and even the kids (5 yr old twins)immediately. However, on Thanksgiving her Uncle, whom she was close to, died unexpectedly. That led into a pretty dreary Christmas. Right after Christmas, I was laid off from my job. Right after New Years her grandfather passed away. Then we both started an accelerated program to get out teaching certifications.

On Jan 3rd, she was sitting there staring and I asked her what was wrong and she said "I can't do this anymore."

When we talked about it I was upset, but tried not to say anything I would need to take back or start crying or anything like that. When I would find myself starting to feel it bubble up, I would just say "Okay...I understand."

But she really offered me no reason other than her feelings haven't changed. I told her with everything that had been going on in the past couple of months I didn't think they could. She said she tired of trying, she knows that her feelings will not change, and she doesn't want to even try anymore. She said the kids are her first priority and that it was best for them.

I told her that I disagreed with that, but if it is what she needs to be happy then I can only step aside and let her do it.
I didn't want to get into the kids too much, because I don't want to use them to make my case.

However, I do not believe that it is best for the kids because 1)I believe that divorce is never good for kids, even divorces that are necessary. 2)I am not abusive or participate in dangerous activity (drugs, etc.). 3) We consciously chose to start a family, and to do so only to break it apart, is (in my eyes) fleeing the responsibility brought about by that choice.

She said there was nothing we could do. She told me how we could break it down. She told me the lawyer she wants to use and that she will pay for the lawyer if we use the same one. She also told me that though she has said this in the past, she is positive this time and she doesn't want me to have any disillusions.

Yesterday it did not come up at all until she went to bed. I kept up a very positive attitude. When she went to bed she asked me if I had said anything to the kids. I told her no (which is true). She said she thought it was appropriate that we told them together.

That was it.

This morning she was sick. I took care of things around the house and got the kids ready for school. She was going to take them and I offered to so she could rest. She took them anyway, and then sent me a text that said "I appreciate you trying to help me out, and I hope you are doing it because you care and not because you think it will change these circumstances."

I texted back "I do care. I am home right now and I am able to do it."

She said "Ok. Just didn't want you to have any disillusions."

My fear is that either a) she has just completely made up her mind and checked out

or

b) she has backed herself into a corner where she feels that she has to "put up or shut up" so to speak.

Any thoughts, advice, encouragement? Please...

btw-I just picked up TDR and started it. I've read DB, but I'm hoping this one will freshen up some of the ideas from DB.


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Hi Lost,

Just wanted to say that I'm sorry that you have to come back here but I'm sure that you will get all the help you need from the wise folks here. Funny thing is that in reading your sitch, I don't get the feeling that it's over between you and your wife. It sounds like your wife has a lot of grieve going on right now and may not be processing it well. I definitely think that you should as much as possible back off and don't pressure anything. I don't think she has fully processed her thoughts and feelings as yet. I know that when involved it feels like its over but from the outside it doesn't sound so to me. So try not to panic but play cool.

That said, I know I need to follow this advice as well but I guess that's why we're here... to help each other, right!!

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Thank you vickyd. I appreciate the encouragement. Personally, I don't think that this is something that she wants either. Three years is a long time, but I also think if it is what she truly wanted, she would have done it a long time ago. Like I said, my biggest fear is that she has done this so many times before that she will feel that she needs to go through with it this time. Though she said that she had consigned herself to being miserable back in November when she wanted to work it out, I don't believe that. I think she truly saw it as best for the kids and also saw potential for us as a couple. But I think that when I got laid off, it put us right back into a bad financial situation. You couple that with the deaths in her family and I think you have a pretty intense situation. Plus, she turned 35 the day before, so she jumped a demographic. I think that our all around situation vs. where she had always hoped she'd be at 35 is causing a lot of problems too.

Right now, I'm playing it cool as I can. If she goes through with the divorce, I will ask for a true separation first. We did it once before, but it wasn't really a separation. It was basically me going to work, coming over and spending time with the kids until they went to bed, and then sleeping over at my parents. I think in order to truly see if living apart is truly the right thing then we need to do so in earnest. Before the only real difference was where I actually lay my head down to sleep and where I left for from in the morning. Other than that, the situation was exactly the same.


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They always think their feelings will never change and they are always wrong. You can't tell them that of course, they have to experience the feelings themselves.

The best thing of course is give her space and avoid being around her if possible. Also agree with her that a separation/divorce the the right thing to do even though you don't believe that. She'll expect resistance so when you don't it'll confuse her and make her think twice. It's going to take a while for her feelings to change again so just roll with it for now and take care of yourself and the kids. She'll be like a zombie anyway and you can't help her. She needs some IC if she'll agree to it to help her cope.


Me:38
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Bomb/EA 03/08
Recon twice
1/09 W files for D
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RobD-

Thanks for the advice. That's pretty much my plan. However, she truly does need some sort of help whether we end up divorced or not. She blames her mental state on our marriage, but, while I'm sure it isn't helping, I really think that the situation works both ways-a sort of chicken-and-egg argument. It seems as if she is incapable of solving problems in the relationship while in her state of mind, yet I think these same marital problems she feel incapable of solving are contributing to her state of mind. This is why I feel that a separation might be a good idea. I think that she is miserable in her life situation right now and I believe that every time she sees me it ignites a little spark of resentment towards me for her (our) situation. I think all that spark needs is a little bit of fuel (me getting laid off, etc.) to ignite into a blazing fire. Perhaps with time to truly step away, without me lingering as a focus every time something negative comes along, perhaps she could see these things as obstacles rather than "poison in her veins." (her words)


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I also agree that if she wants a D then do a true S first. Sounds to me that she doesn't know how to process her feelings and she tends to lean the blame on you/the M instead of searching to see what else is wrong internally. I agree with Rob that you should distance yourself a bit so that you are not there for her to blame. Good luck.

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Yeah, you might be right there. I just hope that I can get her to agree to a true S. Don't get me wrong, I have not always been the best husband. I can be distant and tend to deal with things by locking up and diverting my attention. While I was never abusive, I was also not very reliable. I have really worked on changing that over the past three years. I really thought back in November everything had finally paid off. But here I am again.

This book is very true in what it says about friends and family. Most of mine think I'm crazy and can't understand how I could weather this for three years and still keep fighting. Just today a friend of mine asked me "Is this worth it?" and I answered "Yes."

I have a few reasons why...

1) I love my wife. I am hurt and I am confused, but I never stopped loving her. While I will admit that some of this may be selfishness wanting to keep her. If she is truly that unhappy, and if being married to me really is the root of this, then a more selfless person would let her go.

-however-

2) I worry about the kids. When this started they just turned two years old. Now they are five. They have a solid idea of mom and dad and who we are. Though, I do agree that the current state of our marriage is not good for them, I know that divorce would be worse. Since I've been laid off I am able to spend more time with them than I could before. I think that they will be confused and devastated if we were to divorce. It has been my observation that no matter how amicable the ex-spouses may be, the children still seem to be stuck somewhere in middle without the stability of one home and one family.


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My wife sent me a text this morning saying that she was going to talk to the lawyer this week. I'm starting to panic. I responded to the text by simply saying "ok" and left it alone. The kids were with their grandparents so I left before she got home. While I know I need to act in a positive way, I was feeling so emotionally overwhelmed that I knew I would probably break down, so I figured it was best to just not be there for that to happen.

I have since come home and I asked her if I needed to pick up the kids of if they were being dropped off. I then sat down and started typing this. I have not flipped out, did not freak, did not bring it up, didn't beg her not to, etc.

I'm reading DR now, but can someone please point me in the right direction? Is there something specific I need to do once she has gone to the lawyer? If she files what then? I'm hoping to read as much as I can in DR tonight, but if anyone can shoot any sort of advice, ideas, suggestions, or support I would appreciate it greatly!!!


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First of all according what state you are in the laws are different. That means, what you can do is different. In some states you don't have to sign papers and it takes time before the court acknowledges the D. Second thing to remember, just because she goes does not mean you will get papers. If you do get papers - know the law. If you can request mediation, that will give you time to talk and resolve some things without a D.
In the book you may want to go right to chapter six - there;s a lot there but it also tells you how to manage last resort techniques.
Breathe, don't panic, I have read some of your comments elsewhere, don't know your stitch yet but remember your comments as a man - keep the information coming. Women are similar in reacting on their emotions, they like to try things out to see what results because we can't always envision it. We also don't look thoroughly before acting and may see unwanted side affects that change our minds. Women have to figure out how they feel before thinking things through. If they arent' certain of their feelings they make take action to discover them. The thinking part doesn't kick in until the feelings are established. Once the feelings are sorted, thinking occurs and integration can happen = a different response. Kind of opposite from men. You sort out information, then apply emotions and come up with a result. So read on.... stop every once in a while to integrate your emotions with the information to come up with a balanced reaction or behavior toward resolving current dilemma.
Drama starts when men say what they think without including their emotions, the result is a statement without a committment to follow. Women, emote before considering their thoughts and make statements they don't stick to. Get it? Whenever, either sex makes a decision without doing all the work, they can't stick to it - so if there is any wavering, that is the reason.
My H has said he wanted a D, or was leaving or ending it almost weekly since we have been married. We are now separated because of behavior I cannot tolerate, but his inconsistent behavior continues. I learned awhile ago that he probably doesn't mean it- like you said earlier - just frustrated and doesn't know what else to say or do. DBing is about figuring out what behaviors work and which ones need to change. In our first year of M I went to a lawyer three times because he said so, I learned a lot about the process and law. But when I realized it was his frustration and not his intention, I stopped reacting to it and starting putting it on him to do if he really wants it. Even separated he says it, I just ask him to get me the papers and he gives it up. I don't know your stitch. Hopefully you will learn something from reading books, also read other people's stitch esp, the successful ones.
Keep us informed.


Me late 50's
M 9/06
D 4/11

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Thanks for the info,Kassie

I read the last resort chapter last night. I think I get it. However, I already broke one of the rules this morning (though I had to. We were trying to figure out what to do about health insurance since I've been laid off and in Illinois if you have a 60 day gap in coverage everything becomes a pre-existing condition. She was talking about putting the kids and her on the insurance through her school and I asked her that if I needed it would I be able to sign under her insurance until I find work. She said "As long as we're together." I just said "Right. But it will keep me from falling into that coverage gap in the meantime." I know you aren't supposed to talk about the future together, but I really needed to know. I did my best to recover, as I didn't press the issue or appear as if I were pressig for info (I really wasn't).

In my state I can request mediation. Another option in my state is "Legal Separation" It is exactly the same thing as divorce except that you do not dissolve the marriage. Everything else is still set up as a divorce: time with kids, who lives where, amount of contact, etc. However, you still file taxes together, share benefits, etc. At the end of the separation you can then dissolve or extend it. If you opt to dissolve it, you return to your legally married state. If however, you decide on divorce you can upgrade the separation into a divorce, unless you need to tweak the terms set up in the separation. It's almost like a trial divorce.

Personally, I think this is the most fair compromise offered. From what I'm reading, the state requires a six month separation period in order for the divorce to go through anyway. So, if I get served with papers (which I have a feeling I will) I think that I will muster everything ounce of coolness that I can, and recommend the legal separation for a six-month period. As far as I know (and I'm pretty confident of this) there is no OM even of interest, so all this does is add the extra step of "upgrading" at the end of six months. But this gives us a chance to experience life without one another. She can see how the divorce affects each of us, our families and friends, and, most importantly, our children. It will give us time to reflect on our marriage, see our contributions (positive and negative) to the marriage, and give us the time and space to work on ourselves as people. While the separation will be devestating on the kids, it at least has the potential to be temporary, where a divorce is much more permanent. If the separation does not work, the kids will continue in the life that they have been living for the past six months and are none the worse than they would have been through the divorce. If we decide to work it out and opt against divorce then I'm sure the kids will be happy to accept that change.

My question is, since cool heads prevail, is this separation a good option or am I truly just grasping at straws? If it is a plausable option, how do I approach presenting it in terms of DBing? I know that I am supposed to move on with my life, etc. and I know that I am not supposed to tell her I love her, and not supposed to discuss the R or the future, but I also feel that this is a decision that will greatly effect many lives, but directly effect four:the kids, her, and me; and I still stand by the idea that we very conciously chose to start a family and it is our place and duty to fullfill the obligations that come along with that choice. However, her happiness is important as well, and I do not want to deny her that, but I honestly, truly believe that her unhappiness will continue after the D and that our marriage is not the root of this unhappiness. It is, however, feeding it I'm sure and I do not want my present her with the option of a legal separation to add to this.

My thought is to present it to her a couple of days after I am served. I don't want it to seem like a desperate manuever. I was thinking of presenting as a way to "try out" the terms of the divorce (visitation of the kids, division of property, financial responability, etc.) before finalizing everything. This will also give me a chance to find work and get back on more solid ground. In all other respects (except that she cannot remarry, which isn't an issue) we are divorced. Plus it will give us a chance to sort of rediscover ourselves personally before legally, which I think could benefit the kids in the long run. Since it is a set length of time it isn't really prolonging anything. If something were to change in her situation, she can upgrade it to divorce at any time.

I think that by presenting it in that way, I am not begging her for more time, calling for her to reach deep and find the love for me she once had, etc. However, what it does offer, without saying it, is a chance to step back and see our marriage from outside of the hurt, anger, and confusion that seems to build inside of her when I am around. If she is able to see a possibility of working to save the marriage, she can accept that without the fear of having to backpeddle over a divorce. I think that it is much easier to second-guess yourself if you have to go back on the finality of a decision such as divorce, than it is to make a pro-active decision to fix something after stepping away from it.

Any help, insight, or inspiration is greatly appreciated!!!


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