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#1677945 - 12/20/08 08:51 PM Re: Listening and Learning [Re: lovehimso]
nw626 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/06/08
Posts: 498
Beth
Wow wow and wow.....
I think your meeting went really well and you handled it wonderfully.
I am so happy for you. This is such a big step for both of you.
Take your time to process things but please do not over analyze them. Just take it slow and steady, you will be just fine.
Keep this in mind, even he sounds pretty upbeat about the Christmas movie and tango dance. He could still turn you down when time comes, but it is OK because he is still confused and you just don't know how he feels later on. Just prepare of that...

You are doing so great....our new DB poster girl...

Keep up the good work.

NW626
_________________________
Me:33 STBXW:38 S:3
It's not whether you win or lose, it's how you fight the fight....!!

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#1677949 - 12/20/08 08:58 PM Re: Listening and Learning [Re: nw626]
VeronicaV Offline
Member

Registered: 10/21/08
Posts: 1485
NW626,

Thank you so much. I don't know about DB poster girl. There were moments where I felt pretty sure I was blowing all the DB rules but I was sticking with my gut. My gut has not led me astray yet so I trust it.

You are right to remind me he could retreat some. But I will say his response to the movie invitation and the dancing was very different from his responses in the past few months. His responses were more relaxed today.
_________________________
VV:41

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#1677986 - 12/20/08 10:47 PM Re: Listening and Learning [Re: VeronicaV]
healthydad Offline
Member

Registered: 06/24/08
Posts: 1425
Loc: California
Hi Beth:
So many positives - and not just in terms of your interaction with your H - but in terms of you and where you're finding yourself.

Taking off your rings after meeting with him today must have felt both cathartic and difficult - but I can see why you did - since it's very clear from what he said that what he's going through really does seem to be an MLC. A lot of your conversation seemed to be about defining things and not defining things...and not fulling under certain definitions - all questions that, when in crises mode, must seem all that more confusing and pressing.

He clearly has a lot of feelings for you - and something about his words as you conveyed them also suggested to me that maybe he feels unworthy of you. Letting him know that you love him for who he is was probably very important to him.

Having the movie and the dancing to look forward to sounds so very positive...and it will give you the chance to be there for him/with him without any expectations...and it seems like offering him you without expectations could be great for both of you.

I wouldn't make too much of his bringing up divorce - as I've noticed that sometimes, when the WAS speaks in front of the LBS, a lot of what they say is liking thinking out loud - and we're just there to hear it...not necessarily to respond...oh...that reminds me of something I heard the other night - it doesn't directly relate to anything you've written about your sitch - but I think it relates to relationships in a more general way - it was: whenever we act defensive the other person feels unheard.

I guess I'm just mentioning that here because sometimes the partner going through an MLC can start making statements that just aren't very true or accurate to what we perceive - and the trick seems to be not to defend ourselves...since we want our partners to feel heard.

I'm happy for you, Beth. You are moving in the right direction.

-Carlos.
_________________________
Me:39
S3,S13

"We consent to live like sheep." W.H. Auden

On my own
Separation #4

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#1677988 - 12/20/08 10:58 PM Re: Listening and Learning [Re: healthydad]
VeronicaV Offline
Member

Registered: 10/21/08
Posts: 1485
Carlos,

Thank you so much for your kind words and your insight. One thing he said that bothered me was that he likes living alone. But, just like you said with the divorce, I can see that as an MLC/WAS outloud thought. I simply responded that I can understand why he might like that and that it is fine with me.

I am feeling bad that so many of my friends here are hoping for any positive sign. I hope for the best outcome for all of us. I will say that today's events, whatever they mean, certainly show that anything can happen to any one of us at any time.

Just a little over one week ago I was wondering how to keep going with this and now I have some new positive steps.

I need to write down your words: whenever we act defensive, the other person feels unheard. Looking back this has been key in my and H's interactions.
_________________________
VV:41

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#1677991 - 12/20/08 11:11 PM Re: Listening and Learning [Re: VeronicaV]
JWM Offline
Member

Registered: 11/10/08
Posts: 743
Beth, great, great, news. Don't over analyze this. Stay with the moment. I'm happy for you.
_________________________
John
Me 56 W 46 D7
First
Second
Third
last

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#1677993 - 12/20/08 11:14 PM Re: Listening and Learning [Re: VeronicaV]
healthydad Offline
Member

Registered: 06/24/08
Posts: 1425
Loc: California
Hi Beth:
I wish this site had more of an interactive function to it - as sometimes these conversations seems so truncated...

You won't always find the positives if you look for them in the words - sometimes the positives are more in the actions - like the kiss, the music, the listening.

I didn't mention it specifically before, but this really jumped out at me:

"He likened himself to the character in Steppenwolf who vacillates between wanting to be alone and wanting human connection. He said he likes his solitude right now, alot. He said he does not know how to ask a significant other to accept him for who he is, as someone who swings back and forth like a pendulum needing connection and independence."

Isn't it normal to fluctuate like that? And isn't it the goal of a healthy relationship to have both the connection and the independence...seeing that fluctuation as the problem seems to be part of the problem...

He tells you that he likes his solitude a lot right now - while also saying that he swings like a pendulum...and here's the positive in those words - he's opening up to you about his vulnerability - he's opening up to you about his fear - and he's opening up to you about not being centered. It may take some time for him to see that a healthy relationship with oneself leaves room for both connection to another and independence for oneself - but I don't think you (or anyone else) could show him that. He has to come to it on his own, no?

Look past the words to find the positives - there are lots of positives there - both just for you and for your R with your H (no matter what the outcome).
_________________________
Me:39
S3,S13

"We consent to live like sheep." W.H. Auden

On my own
Separation #4

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#1677994 - 12/20/08 11:16 PM Re: Listening and Learning [Re: JWM]
whateverittakes Offline
Member

Registered: 11/28/08
Posts: 255
Hi Beth,

It sounds like the interaction with your h was healthy if not always easy. Given the stage you're at, this is wonderful.

Perhaps feeling a bit protective of you, I can only echo another's post in which it was stated that he might retract a bit from the shared activities. I hope not.

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#1678108 - 12/21/08 03:04 AM Re: Listening and Learning [Re: VeronicaV]
AnotherNightmare Offline
Member

Registered: 11/20/08
Posts: 278
Loc: PA
Beth,

This is absolutely great! You did very well. You got a lot more than you wanted. You said you just wanted a second meeting. You got a movie and dance lessons. That is a lot more than you were hoping for. And you handled the situation so well.

Keep doing what you are doing. You are definitely on the right track.

AN
_________________________
M43 W45, M17
S9 D6
Bomb: 11/11/08
EA: 10/26-12/31/08 ?
Retrouvaille: 2/13-2/15/09
Healed, but still heading for D
My situation

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#1678148 - 12/21/08 04:45 AM Re: Listening and Learning [Re: AnotherNightmare]
Silent Chrleader Offline
Member

Registered: 06/19/08
Posts: 1125
Loc: WA
Hi, Beth.

I don't think I have posted to you before but I have been following your sitch. Your H sounds sooooooo much like mine! A few months back, my H and I had much the same talk as you just had. I even made the same joke about "maybe we can get a divorce and live together in sin" (after 25 years of marriage). We started "dating" and even were intimate. Then he seemed to cool off. H withdrew back into his shell. Then I found out (from my son) that H had actually had had a PA with his secretary during the early months of our seperation, before we started "dating" again. Now my H has said he spent the time with me during those "dating" months because he felt guilty, and that he just wants to be alone, and that he hasn't loved me for years, but didn't want to hurt me. Now, in January, I am moving into an apartment so he can move back into our home to fix it up to sell it. I wonder if it's just that he can't get past the guilt and doesn't want to do the work of fixing the relationship. But he is on his own journey and I have to drop the rope and let him take it.

My point in all this is not to discourage you! Really! I think it's very obvious that you love your H very dearly and I believe that he loves you too! And I don't mean to imply your H had an affair. But, my advice to you is to go very slow!! And be careful to maintain no expectations. You seem to psychoanalyze your H a lot. I do that too!!! All the time! Try to minimize that if you can. (I know that is part of what pushed my H away again). And it may be that your H will withdraw again. Maybe he won't, but if he does, don't be surprised. Remember, this is a long journey, with many twists and turns in the road.

Take care!! {{{{{{hugs}}}}}}


Edited by Silent Chrleader (12/21/08 04:47 AM)
_________________________
TJ

Me45,H49
D24,S18
M26,T28
Bomb 3/19/08
Sep 6/23/08
EA/PA with Secretary 2007-8
3/2009 H moved in w/OW2
7/2009 Let him go w/Love.
8/2009 Legally Sep'd

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#1678255 - 12/21/08 02:15 PM Re: Listening and Learning [Re: Silent Chrleader]
VeronicaV Offline
Member

Registered: 10/21/08
Posts: 1485
JWM - You are right that I have to stay in the moment. That will help me. I am having a bit of a downturn this morning, mostly because the reality sinks back in - that this is a long process.

Carlos - Thank you for spending so much time looking for and helping me see all the positives. I will be revisiting your words during shakier moments to help me stay focused on the positive.

WIT - Thank you for your concern, I am thinking that H could withdraw again. I cannot say I am prepared for that because if he does, I know it will hurt but I know it could happen.

AN - Thanks! You are right that I did get more than I hoped for and I am hanging on to that.

SilentCheerleader - Thank you for taking the time to read through my posts and to share your thoughts. You areright that I should go slowly and I will.

I will also say that while I agree that many MLC/WAS seem to read from the same script, I think their individual experiences are so different that it is risky for us to compare them. I have seen how my H behaves when feeling guilty, since leaving. When he acts out of guilt, he avoids things. He avoids eye contact, he avoids discussions, he avoids me. So I do not think that any of his actions yesterday stemmed from guilt.

I have also struggled, a lot to put the notion of an OP out of my mind. I have no evidence or reason to believe there is an OP and it is simply not productive for me to entertain the idea.

Thank you all for your time and helpful input.

Beth
_________________________
VV:41

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