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#1672805 - 12/13/08 08:22 AM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: Nasmat]
Nasmat Offline
Member

Registered: 12/01/08
Posts: 250
Loc: Georgia
And it is also becoming clearer and clearer that this is all about the OW.

Yeah, all of our other problems were there, but I highly doubt he would have just thrown in the towel so suddenly if it wasn't for the OW. Suddenly, the problems that were livable were no longer livable - because he thinks the grass is greener now.

I think all of that finding himself stuff is a smokescreen. I never stopped him from doing anythig, from following any dreams. He and his low self-esteem and lack of direction stopped himself.

So enter the OW. Suddenly, the grass is greener. Suddenly, he doubts he knew himself when we got married. We rushed into it (I can agree in some ways, but whatever). He's unhappy. He has to walk his path "alone" to find himself. He's been kidding himself - about our marriage, about God, about family. He wants those things, but just not with me. We're too different. He can't provide what I need, and I can't provide what he needs.

Yep, it's the affair fog.

Here's this young girl that looks up to him, that he can help financially, that makes him feel important and respected and like someone special.

And so, like a fool, he runs to that. And he runs from me - as fast as he can - because he doesn't want to deal with being the bad guy. He doesn't want to think about it. He creates this new world in which he has his own place, has his OW, has his billiards room and his buddies - and still has me as a best friend, maybe even a best friend with benefits if he wants it. And he soothes it all by telling himself that he's setting me free. He's doing me a favor. He's taking control for once in his life.

When he was here last weekend, he made these speeches about how any woman in his life would just have to deal with the fact that we would always be best friends. He talked about how one day he and whoever he's with and me and whoever I'm with would all drive up to Tennessee to visit his mom's grave. And he's just enough in la-la land to believe it.

And hey, if we're friends, he doesn't have to feel so bad. He's not ending anything. He's just redefining relationships.

The fool.

I need to distance big time. Hell if I know how, but I do.

~Nas
_________________________
"Don't dream it. Be it."

First
Second

Me: 26
WAH: 27
T/M: 11/4

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#1672809 - 12/13/08 08:34 AM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: Nasmat]
Tomato Offline
Member

Registered: 01/03/08
Posts: 4058
Loc: Northeast
Hi Nasmat - Whether my advice is "sage" or not, I have a small helping of it to toss out to you.

Since I haven't posted and haven't been at all in the know on your sitch I will have to bring myself up to speed on that.

But with regards to this mornings post re: whether to be present or scarce upon H's return, trust yourself (your going to need to develope that & you will as we all do)cuz no matter how much of a confident strong person you are in matters having nothing to do with your M sitch the confidence as you know gets way thrown out of wack when going through this turmoil.

From what you have shared of the ramblings of that inner voice of yours it basically sounds like you at least somewhat doubt your having the resolve to hold your emotions in check in his presence. Having said that (and I believe you did), keep things well in control for yourself. Lord knows there's enough stuff in these ordeals that we feel powerless to, so you have the decision here, thus the power. SO think it through carefully, pray on it if you enjoy communing w/ God (or even if you don't for that matter \:\) ... think I am giving myself away here :)) and then you will be doing just as you need to.

Hope that helps! I know that often times it is just the receipt of some feedback from others that is nice. Kinda like a hand holdin' thing in order to feel better about traversing through this perilous battleground. I use the Lord and my buddies on here for that. And ..oh yeah the couple of real friends that I have lingering around also ..LOL.

Peace to you. Have a pleasant, even joyous w/e.

T

ps- nice chattin @ ya btw.
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#1672818 - 12/13/08 08:57 AM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: Nasmat]
Nasmat Offline
Member

Registered: 12/01/08
Posts: 250
Loc: Georgia
So, I thought I might share the letter that he left at the house for me when I returned from Chicago - this was 11/29.

"_____,

It pains me to type this and trascend all my thoughts onto this computer without losing the meaning in the end. You do and you have brought all the good things in me out into the world. You're a beautiful woman, gorgeous, and the most intelligent person I've ever met and will ever meet. All I can do is cherish the years we've spent together and the times you've been there for me. I'll always love you, I'll always respect you, but I painstakingly have to say I have to walk my path alone. I don't know where I'm going, I just know I have to keep taking steps one after the other in order to find my peace, to find myself, to find my answer. In the end I don't know what I want out of life. I'm a simple man and only ask for the simplest of things in life, I guess. I feel I've let you down and have injured you immensely, but in the end I believe we are destined for different things and must take different paths in order to find ourselves. I feel I've hurt your family immensely but would like to say I couldn't have asked for a more understanding, more loving family. I'll probably never acheive anything that compares to you or your family. I am grateful for the time I've had with them. I'll always love tham and fear that they won't quite understand in the end and nor will you. You're destined for great things and without me I believe you will acheive everything you desired growing up and in college. You'll make someone the happiest person in the world one day.

I've changed so much over the years, we've changed so much. I look in the mirror and no longer recognize myself half the time. I feel empty. We have enough history to fill a book, a history that I'll always look back on with love. _____, I just feel that maybe we're better as best friends than husband and wife. We come from two different worlds and even though opposites do attract in the end we are what we are; apples and oranges. Certain things in our marriage bothered me. As meaningless as this is about to sound it has always bothered me. I've always felt that I took a secondary role in our relationship. I never felt like a man, like the head of the household. I always felt that I married another alpha male and always took the secondary role because in the end I love you and wanted to try to make it work. I've always wanted kids, but I never could communicate with you because in the end I don't know how to communicate. I've always had a dream to be my age right now with two kids. I know you want a child, but I can't wait until I'm old and grey with only one child, but even then I feel you would be perfectly happy without one. I've always wanted a house in the country with a family who has barbecues on the back porch with a bonfire and at least two bulldogs running around in the yard. I'm a simple man and I honestly need to feel like one. Also I felt rushed with all the major choices in our marriage. I didn't feel ready at the time to get married because at that time I didn't really know myself. I was hurt when you gave me no options in the music being played at our wedding and it made you upset when I had the disc jockey play two songs of my choice. It was my wedding too and it always bothered me. I also just did not feel ready to buy a house but I relented because I knew it mattered to you. I didn't feel ready to buy that eclipse but I knew in the end you would need a new vehicle and I knew you would never try to learn to drive the focus because not only was it a hassle, but it made you look like a cheap housewife driving an economic car. the things you said about religion a few days ago amzed me. For years I thought I was married to Hades himself (joke). I felt like over the past four years I was losing my religion. i never had anyone to help me learn my faith or support me in my faith, no one to guide me or persuade me to attend Mass. I felt like it was to the point where I doubted my beliefs and doubted myself. I just can't raise a family like that. I know all the animals we ever had I never consulted with you and for that i'm truly sorry. Lola brings great joy into our lives and I miss her immensely. I know you never liked Lucy and I understand why. I felt like I always take care of our animals. I feel if we ever have children I'm going to take a motherly role because I feel you're not wired that way and you'll take a fatherly role. You come from a background of scholarly halls and i come from blue collar salt of the earth. I need things in my life that you can't provide me. Just like there are things I can't provide for you. You are the most intelligent person I know, the most driven person I've ever known. You'll go far without me and you'll fidn true love in the end. It's not fair for you to have to settle in the end. I will always love you no matter what. Don't feel hurt when you try to communicate with me at times and I don't respond. I'm just trying to mlet go and move on. Maybe one day our paths may cross but I have to say goodbye and start a new path into the unknown.

P.S. I wrote this because it is easier for me to express my thoughts. I know it's not fair because you can't defend yourself, but in the end this is how I feel. Please don't read this with anger. I just can't visit Lola right now because it would be worse for me to see her. Please call and let me know when it is a good time for us to meet and go over all the financial issues and timelines for the separation. I'll deeply miss Christopher Lee and Ken's tentacle hands. We have a humor that I will probably never find again. Take care of yourself and be safe.

-_____"
_________________________
"Don't dream it. Be it."

First
Second

Me: 26
WAH: 27
T/M: 11/4

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#1672826 - 12/13/08 09:10 AM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: Tomato]
Nasmat Offline
Member

Registered: 12/01/08
Posts: 250
Loc: Georgia
Hi, Tomato! Thanks so much for stopping to offer advice (very sage, btw) and support. It really helps.

Thank you so much for the advice. I am definitely going to pray and ask guide for guidance. There's nothing else that I can do, and I trust in Him to show me the path.

Thank you very much again. May God bless you and keep you, and I hope that you have a wonderful weekend as well. I'm going to try. \:\)

~Nas
_________________________
"Don't dream it. Be it."

First
Second

Me: 26
WAH: 27
T/M: 11/4

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#1672850 - 12/13/08 09:40 AM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: Nasmat]
22tango Offline
Member

Registered: 10/27/08
Posts: 113
Loc: NC
Nas,

So much of what you are going through is so similar to mine. Just as you posted in my post, my H has said many of the same things as yours. Although my H has not come clean about an A, I feel in my heart that he is once again doing it because despite our differences, I cannot fathom that he could throw it all away unless there is someone else.

I am at a point right now where I have put my foot down in the friend department. As you said, I will not enable him, I will not make him feel better about his choices. He actually thinks it is better for the kids to be D'ed. H has rewritten our history as well, saying that we should never have gotten married, we were too different, but thanks for the memories.

Originally Posted By: Nasmat
All I can do is cherish the years we've spent together and the times you've been there for me. I'll always love you, I'll always respect you, but I painstakingly have to say I have to walk my path alone. I don't know where I'm going, I just know I have to keep taking steps one after the other in order to find my peace, to find myself, to find my answer. In the end I don't know what I want out of life. I'm a simple man and only ask for the simplest of things in life, I guess. I feel I've let you down and have injured you immensely, but in the end I believe we are destined for different things and must take different paths in order to find ourselves.



I have heard the EXACT same thing. It is uncanny that most of us that are going through these sitches often hear the exact same words and experience the exact same actions against us. This can only be because of the Fog.

I for one would follow Tomato's sage advice. I have a problem with this big time. H comes over to see the kids and still tries to be affectionate with me and tries to talk to me about what is going on in his new life (no mention of OW though) and I lose it. I would rather him never see me in a place where I feel powerless and unable to contain my hurt and anger...

I have to work today so H is at the house watching our son for me. He brings me my favorite breakfast, and walks into my room as I am getting son ready. It is so strange that he is so comfortable doing those things after all of this as if everything is oh so wonderful. He believes that years from now, our new families will be having barbeques together and having a great time.

All fog, and complete Bullsh*t. All ways in which to justify actions he knows in his heart to be utterly wrong.

((Nasmat)) Be strong.

Tango
_________________________
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1701013&page=0&fpart=1

Me-33
D-10
S-11 months
T-8/M-7
Bomb 4/05
Sep 8/08
Moving to the big D...

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#1672854 - 12/13/08 09:53 AM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: 22tango]
Br44 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/01/08
Posts: 633
First - GREAT job on not responding. He is trying to bait you into a R convo and we all know that R convo's are bad! GREAT JOB.

Second - I think you should be scarce on Sunday, IF he even comes by to get his stuff. He's looking for you to escalate the situation with your anger and resentment (all justified of course, but don't let him see that - you are the better person). If you're gone, he doesn't know what is up... is she GAL, boy this is a 180 from the past few days, what is NAS up to?! Drive HIM crazy by taking care of yourself!

mc

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#1672855 - 12/13/08 09:54 AM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: 22tango]
22tango Offline
Member

Registered: 10/27/08
Posts: 113
Loc: NC
Originally Posted By: 22tango
I have heard the EXACT same thing. It is uncanny that most of us that are going through these sitches often hear the exact same words and experience the exact same actions against us. This can only be the Fog.


I meant to say this to tell you-don't believe a word. I think the saying goes- Don't believe anything they say and less than half of what they do!

This is because they are incapable of rational thought and behavior during the fog. Just brush it off your shoulders and concentrate on you work towards a PMA.

Sorry that that is the best advice I can give at this time.

I just wanted to say that from your posts you seem to be a very articulate and intelligent woman. You are very eloquent in the ways that you express yourself and I admire your ability to do it although you are going through some every heavy sh*t.

Tango
_________________________
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1701013&page=0&fpart=1

Me-33
D-10
S-11 months
T-8/M-7
Bomb 4/05
Sep 8/08
Moving to the big D...

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#1672863 - 12/13/08 10:13 AM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: 22tango]
Br44 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/01/08
Posts: 633
Nas -

Hopefully this will give you some more hope. My aunt has been married 20+ years. Her husband had an affair (not sure for how many months) but she found out about it approx. 10/1/08. He moved out and into his sister's and OW also moved in with him.

Just before Thanksgiving he was a wreck, and asked to come home. He was willing to go to counseling, doctor, etc.

Just received an update about a week ago. My aunt allowed him to help OW move to another town and the affair started again.


Moral of the story (I think)... concentrate on the future. Realize that they have to take this path, and when they come crawling back (which is what we all want)... have the skills and tools necessary to help them come back and build a stronger marriage.

mc

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#1672879 - 12/13/08 10:50 AM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: 22tango]
Nasmat Offline
Member

Registered: 12/01/08
Posts: 250
Loc: Georgia
Hey 22tango! Thank you so much for the support. It is such a help. *hugs*

It's so funny how they rewrite history, isn't it? It's so much easier to rewrite it than to face the music. I can at least say for myself that even when I had my dalliances, I did not rewrite history the way he is rewriting it. I looked at both relationships and asked myself the difficult question, "Do I want long-term love or this fantasy, fleeting thing." It was hard, but I chose the long-term, and in the end I knew I'd done the right thing.

It's so funny, but I look back on the history of our relationship and I see so many little warning signs that I always wrote off for one reason or another.

When we were kids (I was 15, he was 16), I remember our courtship phase. We wrote so many long, long notes and letters. I knew he liked another girl at the time - a girl he worked with. She was nothing like me, more of the average girl from Savannah. Literally, she was almost indistinguishable from other people. He'd dated other girls like this before me, and they'd all broken his heart. He'd had these short, two or three week relationships with average girls that walked all over him. And so when he met me, I was different.

Really different.

I was a challenge, and I was nothing like him or those other girls. And so the day we started dating - eleven years ago, on Pearl Harbor Day - before we began dating he'd confessed that he sort of liked two girls and was making a decision between them. I knew at the time he was deciding between me and that other girl he worked with, but I was a kid and let it go. We started dating that day.

A couple of years later, as I was considering breaking up with him as high school was over and college was on the near horizon, I found out that he'd kissed that other girl three weeks after we'd started dating. At the time, I'd been upset, but I'd also written it off as youth. We'd only been dating for three weeks, so really it was almost a non-issue. I found out that alot of girls we'd been friends with at that time had tried to initiate things with him during the early stages of our relationship, but it hadn't really mattered because I'd also had alot of guys that were interested in me.

Years after finding out, I brought it up once and asked why he'd chosen me over those other girls. He'd told me it was because I was different - I was beautiful and smart and when he'd looked at me, he'd known I'd be loyal. That I wouldn't just up and leave.

That loyalty thing always bothered me. I never truly felt that he was with me because I was 100% absolutely what he wanted. Whenever I would think on that, though, I would remind myself of all the sacrifices he'd made for me - about how he never stopped looking at me like I was his whole universe. and I would remind myself that an adult should not base their feelings in the fleeting emotions and logic of children.

But still, it nagged at me a little, now and then.

While I was in college, he was in the Marine Corps. For four years we lived completely separate lives. When he was stateside, I would see him about once a month. When we saw eachother, we'd ML practically all day, and we'd have lots of fun - and yet it never felt 100% like we fit into eachother's lives at the time. We were on compeltely different paths. Looking back on that time, I see myself avoiding class - avoiding reality and responsibility in some ways, but also feeling very free. During that time, I did resent sometimes that I was in a committed, long-distance relationship. I told myself that if opportunities came, I would seize them, otherwise I would never know if I was settling. Looking back on his choices, he was straying a bit as well, especially after his mother died in what was my junior year of college. After that, he became a little wilder. He drove drunk and totalled his truck. He bought a motorcycle that he purchased with his inheritance and that he sold during the first year of our marriage. He was still devoted and still a wonderful guy, but there were signs. Even though he chose to relocate to Paris Island to be closer to his father and help him out, he resented not being deployed to Iraq qith his former friends.

So senior year of college rolls around and I start bringing up plans for the future. I was terrified by the future. I had no work history, no plan to fall back on other than moving home with my parent's, and it only felt logical that we get married.

I will admit wholeheartedly that I probably wasn't ready. Many people tried to tell me that, but I wouldn't listen. I knew that they made valid points, but in my mind, I was unwilling to give up on a great relationship simply because of timing, because all the people I knew said I had to be on my own for awhile. So yes, I did pressure him. He kept wanting to discuss our differences, and I brushed them off. Our differences made us stronger - I believed that then and I believe it now.

When he proposed, I remember being disappointed. I knew it was coming, but when it happened there were many flaws. I didn't feel like he put the effort into it that I'd expected. He proposed on Valentine's Day (partially because I'd unknowingly foiled his plans to propose on another day), which I hated. He proposed at a restaurant. He did not get down on one knee. I hated the ring, even though I told him I loved it. He'd tried really hard - it was the nicest thing he could buy: platinum and high quality stones and a princess cut. But it wasn't my style, and I felt like he should have known that.

So, in February we got engaged. In May, I came home for a month before returning to finish my last two classes in summer school. He was out of the Marine Corps and in the police academy. We argued alot. He had cold feet, was saying maybe we should live together before getting married, that we had barely seen eachother in the past four years and that maybe we needed to see how things would work together before taking the leap. He even mentioned at one point that maybe we should think about dating other people just to see if we really knew what we wanted. I was jealous and angry and suspicious. At some point, we got into a huge argument, and he stormed out of my parent's house saying the wedding was off and we were through. I sobbed and ran after him. He came back, comforted me, and we made up.

I found out after we were married that at that time he was having an EA (supposedly) with a girl that attended the police academy with him.

So, I went back to school. I'd been forming a strong friendship with a grad student that was in one of my writer's groups. He was brilliant - ridiculously intelligent, extremely driven, had a complete plan for his life. He was outgoing - everyone in town knew him, and he was a brother in a frat. He was a sum of contradictions, and I loved it - a bouncer at a strip club that was a virgin, a tough guy that was street smart yet extremely book smart as well. And he wanted me. Badly. I was the only woman in the room when I was with him despite the fact that girls threw themselves at him left and right. I was exactly what he wanted. In fact, he told me that he went after me despite my engagement because he'd told himself that for once in his life he wanted to have the one thing that he wanted most. He hadn't thought my engagement was all that serious, that I was settling into it.

I say we had an EA, but the truth is we had a sort of PA. No sex of any sort, but we kissed quite heavily. In the end, I broke it off because he couldn't live with the guilt - and because I knew in my heart that my not-yet-H and I had something lasting, something real.

So, we got married and I never spoke with my EA again. During the first year of our marriage, I was wrapped up in my grief over losing my "EA". I partied with coworkers whenever my husband was working nights. I had a true PA with a coworker that really only amounted to two encounters and then ended. Around that time, my H and I got into a huge argument about my activities - I was running up to my old college town almost every weekend, and I was constantly going out. He confronted me with his feelings - that I was not behaving as a wife, that I didn't respect anythign he did, etc. After my intial anger, I calmed down and resolved to be more supportive about his career (which I really did make a huge improvement), to stop going out (I also did that), and to live like a married woman. That same night, after we'd made up and calmed down, we talked for hours.

We felt closer than we'd ever felt. And that's why, in that moment, he told me something that I never expected. He said, "I'm going to tell you something, and I don't want you to get mad and freak out."

I bristled, and then he said the words that comepletely threw me: "I was in love with another woman."

Well, I did freak out. I was sobbing and my whole world collapsed in on itself. He rushed to comfort me, saying it had been nothing - just talking. He said that he'd had cold feet, and he'd felt that I never listened to him. That girl had things in common with him, and she listened.

When I asked why he'd chosen me, he said it was because he loved me, and because he knew I was the one for him. It was our history and our bond. I was beautiful, smart, funny, classy etc.

After the initial shock wore off, I almost felt comforted. I told him about my EA, and in the end we laughed and came back together, feeling good that we'd both gone through the same thing at almost the exact smae time and that we'd chosen eachother. I felt stronger in our love after that. We'd been tested, and we'd chosen eachother.

After that day, we rarely talked about the EAs, but it always bothered me that he'd said he loved her. He would deny ever saying it, or would say that "it just came out the worng way." But it nagged at me. About two years ago, we'd been at a friend's house, and I'd made a teasing comment about where he'd be without me - and he'd said, "probably in Iowa" (the girl was from Iowa). I'd freaked out, we'd argued, and the next day I'd said every nasty thing I could imagine about her in the car. He'd said, "she really wasn't a bad person," and I'd lost my mind.

He agreed to never speak of her again.

A little less than a year ago, he'd randomly brought up my EA. He'd asked me to tell him about the guy; he felt like he knew nothing about that part of my life. I'd dodged the question as I felt it could only stir up ugliness.

Then, in October of this year, I'd found he'd done a myspace search for that girl. It was after we'd had a particularily bad argument in which we hadn't spoken for a couple of days. I was hurt, and confronted him. He'd said it was just curiosity, and I let it go as I still check my EA's website from time to time out of curiosity.

So yes, there were many signs.

Anyways, not to write my entire life's story (felt good, though).

History, history - in the end, it's only determined by those that record it.

So yeah, like your H, the fog has got my H. Somehow, because they aren't truly ready for the finality of what they are doing, they try to live in that fantasy world where they don't truly lose anything.

But, life doesn't work that way. There's nothing to be done about it. I try to take comfort in the fact that one day, the fog will clear. Hopefully, that will be a day when I know what I want as well.

Take care, and God bless,
~Nas
_________________________
"Don't dream it. Be it."

First
Second

Me: 26
WAH: 27
T/M: 11/4

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#1672886 - 12/13/08 10:56 AM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: Br44]
Nasmat Offline
Member

Registered: 12/01/08
Posts: 250
Loc: Georgia
Quote:
First - GREAT job on not responding. He is trying to bait you into a R convo and we all know that R convo's are bad! GREAT JOB.

Second - I think you should be scarce on Sunday, IF he even comes by to get his stuff. He's looking for you to escalate the situation with your anger and resentment (all justified of course, but don't let him see that - you are the better person). If you're gone, he doesn't know what is up... is she GAL, boy this is a 180 from the past few days, what is NAS up to?! Drive HIM crazy by taking care of yourself!


Thanks, MC. I really do feel better by not responding, even though it was tough. Yeah, I think scarce on Sunday is a good idea. Maybe I'll plan to be gone for the afternoon and just tell him to come by whenever. I was going to make a point to be gone and have someone here while he was getting his stuff, but it feels a little extreme now.

Quote:
Moral of the story (I think)... concentrate on the future. Realize that they have to take this path, and when they come crawling back (which is what we all want)... have the skills and tools necessary to help them come back and build a stronger marriage.


I'm repeating that to myself, MC. I really am. Thank you for sharing your aunt's story. It was truly uplifting.

~Nas
_________________________
"Don't dream it. Be it."

First
Second

Me: 26
WAH: 27
T/M: 11/4

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