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#1672367 - 12/12/08 02:55 PM Nasmat - #2
Nasmat Offline
Member

Registered: 12/01/08
Posts: 250
Loc: Georgia
Hey, everyone! Hmmm, not sure I'm posting in the right place. I apologize if I am.

This is my second thread as my first thread locked. You can find it here .

I've calmed down a bit. Thanks very much to MC for giving me some perspective. You're so right - I do need to look at the positive side.

I am ultimately miles above the OW even if he's in the fog right now.

He's still contacting me.

We're still friendly.

There's no ugliness in terms of settling right now.

I know about the A.

There are no kids involved.

I'm able to financially survive without him.

I have an extremely supportive network of friends and family.

*sigh*

Today is just rotten. I feel as though I hate him, and then oops - I look at an old picture that I forgot to take down at my office and all of the "woe is me; I'm so sad; how could he; what happened" s*** comes back.

Hells yeah to the rollercoaster.

And MC, no worries about the drinking. I'm not a big drinker - in fact, I haven't had a drink since this all happened. No worries there.

I do smoke like chimney, but I was doing that before all this rot.

~Nas
_________________________
"Don't dream it. Be it."

First
Second

Me: 26
WAH: 27
T/M: 11/4

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#1672417 - 12/12/08 03:41 PM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: Nasmat]
Br44 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/01/08
Posts: 633
Nas -

Most of these intense feelings will pass. I look at it now as though my W is a drug addict or alcoholic. You can not enable them. They have to hit rock-bottom on their own. They will lie, cheat, steal to get what they want.

Overall, they are just messed up. But, remember, it is not your fault and there isn't much you can do except concentrate on YOU.

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#1672502 - 12/12/08 05:25 PM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: Br44]
pearlharbr Offline
Member

Registered: 12/08/08
Posts: 2204
Nasmat,

I just wanted to say that reading your rants have made me feel a little better. I'm trying to read through as many sitchs as possible but yours is the only one I've found so far that expresses the rage in almost the same thoughts running through my head.

And I'm adopting your characterization of H as a stranger wearing your H's body. That really resonates with me and I'm hoping it will help me deal with no good, rotten, cheating BF.
_________________________
If you love somebody, set them free.
http://tinyurl.com/2empx2g

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#1672631 - 12/12/08 11:05 PM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: pearlharbr]
Nasmat Offline
Member

Registered: 12/01/08
Posts: 250
Loc: Georgia
Thanks, MC, for all of your advice and support. It really does help. I'm trying to start concentrating on me. Easier said than done, but I'm trying.

Hi, pearlharbr! I'm glad my ranting and raving helped a bit. It's exhausting, isn't it? I find myself consumed with rage for hours and then my body will just shut down - I get tired and then the sadness creeps in. I wish you the best of luck in your sitch (I'll swing by to take a look and offer some support - sorry I haven't made it sooner - been a bit of a Taker lately). God bless you, and stay strong. \:\) They say it only gets better from here.

Journal:

My H tried to contact me tonight. He sent a text at 8:09 that said "Sorry to keep bothering u." I didn't reply. He then called at 8:11. I was out with friends and didn't answer. He then called at 9:43 - was still out, and still didn't answer.

No voicemail. Nothing. I'll call him tomorrow. I'm sure he's just trying to rush along and make sure I know he's coming to get his s*** on Sunday - or to try and speed things up and get stuff tomorrow.

He'll just have to wait. I'm tired of accomodating him.

The sad thing is, it's killing me to not respond because I'm curious. I know it's his first night in his new place, and some sick part of myself wonders if he's not feeling a little lonely and missing me. The rational part of my brain is stomping on that part of my heart and reminding me that in all likelihood he's with the OW and just trying to get his eggs in a basket so he can feel comfortable in his bachelor pad.

He cancelled his plans to get drinks with our mutual friend tonight - surprise, surprise. I got home from work today and found that he'd taken a bunch of stuff - lots of clothes, a lot of his things - so not just that "spare wallet" he needed.

It hurt like Hell, but right now I'm just exhausted. I almost want all of his stuff out now just so that I can feel the pain and get over it.

Goodnight and God bless,
~Nas
_________________________
"Don't dream it. Be it."

First
Second

Me: 26
WAH: 27
T/M: 11/4

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#1672698 - 12/13/08 12:37 AM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: Nasmat]
spellfire Offline
Member

Registered: 12/01/08
Posts: 812
Loc: USA
Really feel for you Nas. Hang in there, you are doing great. Reading your story is helping me through mine also.
_________________________
Spellfire aka Mike

"Women do not like controlling men. They respect and are attracted to men who control themselves. They ultimately are repelled by men who allow themselves to be controlled." -S&A

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#1672758 - 12/13/08 06:16 AM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: Nasmat]
Nasmat Offline
Member

Registered: 12/01/08
Posts: 250
Loc: Georgia
Journal:

It's 5:39 in the mroning and I cannot sleep. I woke up from more nightmares of him leaving, and now here I am, awake and smoking in my little office.

Sometimes, this is all so surreal. Sunday will mark a month to the day that he first brought up the subject of "talking about our marriage". I cannot believe that so much has happened in such little time. In just under a month, the man I knew and loved disappeared, and he's been replaced with a stranger that I cannot understand.

I keep asking myself how he can do this. How can he hurt me so bad, again and again? How can he walk away from everything we were working towards? How can he discard me - our life, our friendship, our bond, our history, our love - so easily? How can he have given up without even truly trying?

Sure, he may have been giving up for a long time now, but I can't understand not articulating any of that until he's already decided it's over.

Maybe it was never truly right. Maybe it was a mistake. Maybe I did hang on for the wrong reasons.

But I still feel so much love and so much loss. It is almost unbearable.

And I know him - if he's hurting, he's repressing it. He's hiding from it. He's running from it. He's drowning it, pretending it doesn't exist and chasing it away with his new girl and his new friends.

He's trying to erase everything.

When his mother died, I watched his father, and I should have known then. My H always idolized his father, always is seeking his approval and trying to be like him. Not even a week after his mom died, his father was already dating another woman. He married that other woman several years later, removed all of their family pictures, and went about life as though his wife and the mother of his children never existed except for an occassional comment or two. When she died, his father never even cried around the children. Not once.

So there you have it. I have to accept the great likelihood that my H is doing the same thing - will do the same thing. Instead of dealing with the pain, considering the situation, etc - he'll just rush out and make a new life.

Who knows. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'll never know either way.

I feel as though I cannot think of anything now. If I think of high school, he's there. If I think of college, he's there. If I think of my adult life, he's there.

I have to take myself so far back to remember a time without him that I cannot even remember a person that resembles me without remembering him.

He has literally been the most important person in half of my sentient life. How does one walk away from that?

I am filled with a sadness without borders, without boundaries. My every dream for the future is dead. My every memory of the past is dead.

There is only this moment, and this moment is only pain.

I hurt so much, and the only comfort I want is the comfort I cannot have - my friend, my partner, my husband.

Do people really do this? Do people really walk away from their history without a backwards glance, becoming a new person and forsaking everything that once mattered to them?

Maybe it won't go south with the OW. Maybe he'll like this new life. Maybe he'll stick around and try to make it work as he tried to make us work.

I know that I have to move on. I know that I have to drop the rope, that I cannot allow this thing to swallow my whole life - to swallow me. But it just hurts so bad.

He's not only betrayed me as a husband. He's betrayed me as a friend.

I'm thinking of my grandma right now. She's 87 years old. We just visited her in September, and we'd had a really wonderful trip. My H loves my grandma so much, and I think to myself, "How can he do this to her?" She's at the end of her life, and now she is faced with losing a grandson, with watching him walk away.

We were going to help my grandma with her car payments. When we visited, he hugged her so many times, played cards with her, took her to Red Lobster and made her so happy.

My grandma's two wishes in life were to see me graduate from college and to see me married. I'm so sorry that she now has to see me divorced.

I don't know what to do anymore. I don't know what to think. I feel as though I'll never stop hurting.

I miss him so much. I miss my husband and my friend. I miss the boy that took my to my senior prom and watched me get crowned Queen. I miss my friend that wrote me letters and poems. I miss my friend that watched zombie movies with me on the couch and that snuggled in bed with me and our dog. I miss my friend that sobbed with me at his mother's grave. I miss my friend that was always there to comfort me, that was there to help me move in and out of apartments and dorm rooms. I miss my friend that bought me silly stuffed animals and wrote me long cards for my birthday. I miss my friend that made tents with me in our living room out of sheets and watched werewolf movies with me on my 26th birthday because I just wanted to be silly. I miss my friend that bought me a fish in my first year of college so that I wouldn't be lonely. I miss my friend that drew me a batha nd held me close this past summer when i thought my father might die. I miss my friend that made up silly names for our animals and who cried in my arms when his boyhood dog died this past summer. I miss my friend that smoked with me on our back patio and talked about all of our dreams. I miss my friend that was so nervous when he proposed that he forgot to get down on one knee, whose hands were shaking like leaves.

Where did that person go? I want that person back. I feel like this new man has killed my friend, has killed my husband, has killed the good person I knew so well.

I am lost. I am drifting. I have no compass, no north star. This new life is a wilderness without heat, without comfort, without a safe place to rest.

I feel broken, as though I cannot continue.

There is only God, now. I lay myself at God's feet. It is God who must carry us all.

~Nas

Stop all the clocks, cut off the telephone,
Prevent the dog from barking with a juicy bone,
Silence the pianos and with muffled drum
Bring out the coffin, let the mourners come.

Let aeroplanes circle moaning overhead
Scribbling on the sky the message He Is Dead,
Put crepe bows round the white necks of the public doves,
Let the traffic policemen wear black cotton gloves.

He was my North, my South, my East and West,
My working week and my Sunday rest,
My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
I thought that love would last for ever: I was wrong.

The stars are not wanted now: put out every one;
Pack up the moon and dismantle the sun;
Pour away the ocean and sweep up the wood.
For nothing now can ever come to any good.

--- W.H. Auden
_________________________
"Don't dream it. Be it."

First
Second

Me: 26
WAH: 27
T/M: 11/4

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#1672774 - 12/13/08 07:03 AM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: Nasmat]
samina Offline
Member

Registered: 09/14/08
Posts: 50
Hi Nasmat

I felt the same way when I first found out. It hurts so much and you need to grieve. Have a good cry - A lot of my long term friends were shocked as they had never seen me cry before!! We all understand here and it will get better.

I found it helped to have some time out. Are you able to go stay with friends for a few days? Get out of the "normal" environment. Re-charge and look after yourself - you are the most important person now.

Lots of hugs

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#1672776 - 12/13/08 07:12 AM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: samina]
Nasmat Offline
Member

Registered: 12/01/08
Posts: 250
Loc: Georgia
Thanks so much for the advice, Samina. I know that I need to let myself grieve, and I'm trying. It's such a rollercoaster, and it's so bloody hard. I don't think I've ever cried this much in my entire life.

I took a trip to Chicago to get out when this all happened, and I've been spending alot of times with friends here. It does help, although sometimes it gets to be too much. Life is exhausting right now.

~Nas
_________________________
"Don't dream it. Be it."

First
Second

Me: 26
WAH: 27
T/M: 11/4

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#1672783 - 12/13/08 07:27 AM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: Nasmat]
Nasmat Offline
Member

Registered: 12/01/08
Posts: 250
Loc: Georgia
So, I missed part of his text messages last night. He sent several, but I only saw one until now. Here's how it went.

8:08 PM, 1st text:
---"Hope it was ok that I took a good bit of stuff. I'll pick up more stuff Sunday. When are you busy Sunday I got plans too but I'll be free evening/night."

8:09 PM, 2nd text:
---"Also what day again for us to go down to Comcast?"

8:09 PM, 3rd text:
---"Sorry to keep bothering you."

And then he called at 8:11 and 9:43.

WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH HIM? Why is he being such an a**?

First of all, if I did care that he took a bunch of his s***, what the Hell could I do about it? I have ZERO f***ing power in this situation. He had the affair. He had the problems he didn't talk about. He gave up. He asked for the divorce. He moved out and got a place.

Why hurt me like this? Why? Why become another person? It's so f***ing pointless, although I suppose it makes it easier on him - the person I knew would not be able to live with himself. It's not like I'm fighting him, and he should know that if he does piss me off enough, it's just gonnna get ugly. He knows how ugly I can get.

Seriously, I have to accept that this alien has no love or respect for me regardless of what I hear in his voice, see in his eyes, and most of all, regardless of the things he wrote and the words he's said.

I have to wonder if it's the OW in his ear, his friends, his fickleness, his family - or all four. I just want to shake him and say that just because we're getting a D it doesn't mean he has to be a giant a**hole.

And yay, he's busy Sunday. Good for him. I get it. He's out with his slut and jazzing up his bachelor pad. Good for him. Why rub it in my f***ing face. Not to mention he's the one that suggested noon on Sunday. He hardly had any attention span or memory when we were married, and now it's a 100 times worse.

And the Comcast thing? Are you kidding me? I told him yesterday that we'd do it sometime next week. What the f*** is the rush? What the f*** is his problem?

Will someone please give me a ray gun so that I can zap the f***ing alien that is destroying my life.

So the more I think about this, the more I know I need to set boundaries and stop accomodating him. He can come when it's convenient for me. I am SICK of being accomodating. I am sick of dealing with this alien that abducted the person I knew. The person I knew had my respect and love and patience - I would work with that person. THIS person is going to work on my f***ing timetable.

He needs to get all of his s*** on Sunday. None of this coming day-by-day bulls***. We can go to Comcast when I f***ing feel like going. We will decide about the house and car when I am ready.

I'm tired of playing his games. I am sick and tired of making this easy for him.

I'm not telling him any of this until I cool down, but there it is.

I am a strong woman, and I will not be played for a fool.

~Nas

P.S. And I'm still sad, which sucks. I just want to shake him and tell him to stop stabbing me in my heart already. i get it. He's done. He's moving on. What, does he want a f***ing cookie?
_________________________
"Don't dream it. Be it."

First
Second

Me: 26
WAH: 27
T/M: 11/4

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#1672801 - 12/13/08 08:11 AM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: Nasmat]
Nasmat Offline
Member

Registered: 12/01/08
Posts: 250
Loc: Georgia
Alright, so I need some sage advice.

Should I be here on Sunday when he comes to get his things?

The little voice in my head tells me that I'm probably not emotionally ready to do that, and that I probably should not be here.

I can see myself breaking down or trying to reason with him or getting angry or getting hurt etc, etc.

I want to see him in a sick, twisted way, which probably means I should not see him. It's going to hurt even worse if I do see him and it's the alien that shows up instead.

I don't think he has the balls to be the alien to my face, but I could be wrong.

I don't think it would hurt him to see me, however. I don't like enabling his running.

Damn it all.

~Nas
_________________________
"Don't dream it. Be it."

First
Second

Me: 26
WAH: 27
T/M: 11/4

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#1672805 - 12/13/08 08:22 AM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: Nasmat]
Nasmat Offline
Member

Registered: 12/01/08
Posts: 250
Loc: Georgia
And it is also becoming clearer and clearer that this is all about the OW.

Yeah, all of our other problems were there, but I highly doubt he would have just thrown in the towel so suddenly if it wasn't for the OW. Suddenly, the problems that were livable were no longer livable - because he thinks the grass is greener now.

I think all of that finding himself stuff is a smokescreen. I never stopped him from doing anythig, from following any dreams. He and his low self-esteem and lack of direction stopped himself.

So enter the OW. Suddenly, the grass is greener. Suddenly, he doubts he knew himself when we got married. We rushed into it (I can agree in some ways, but whatever). He's unhappy. He has to walk his path "alone" to find himself. He's been kidding himself - about our marriage, about God, about family. He wants those things, but just not with me. We're too different. He can't provide what I need, and I can't provide what he needs.

Yep, it's the affair fog.

Here's this young girl that looks up to him, that he can help financially, that makes him feel important and respected and like someone special.

And so, like a fool, he runs to that. And he runs from me - as fast as he can - because he doesn't want to deal with being the bad guy. He doesn't want to think about it. He creates this new world in which he has his own place, has his OW, has his billiards room and his buddies - and still has me as a best friend, maybe even a best friend with benefits if he wants it. And he soothes it all by telling himself that he's setting me free. He's doing me a favor. He's taking control for once in his life.

When he was here last weekend, he made these speeches about how any woman in his life would just have to deal with the fact that we would always be best friends. He talked about how one day he and whoever he's with and me and whoever I'm with would all drive up to Tennessee to visit his mom's grave. And he's just enough in la-la land to believe it.

And hey, if we're friends, he doesn't have to feel so bad. He's not ending anything. He's just redefining relationships.

The fool.

I need to distance big time. Hell if I know how, but I do.

~Nas
_________________________
"Don't dream it. Be it."

First
Second

Me: 26
WAH: 27
T/M: 11/4

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#1672809 - 12/13/08 08:34 AM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: Nasmat]
Tomato Offline
Member

Registered: 01/03/08
Posts: 4058
Loc: Northeast
Hi Nasmat - Whether my advice is "sage" or not, I have a small helping of it to toss out to you.

Since I haven't posted and haven't been at all in the know on your sitch I will have to bring myself up to speed on that.

But with regards to this mornings post re: whether to be present or scarce upon H's return, trust yourself (your going to need to develope that & you will as we all do)cuz no matter how much of a confident strong person you are in matters having nothing to do with your M sitch the confidence as you know gets way thrown out of wack when going through this turmoil.

From what you have shared of the ramblings of that inner voice of yours it basically sounds like you at least somewhat doubt your having the resolve to hold your emotions in check in his presence. Having said that (and I believe you did), keep things well in control for yourself. Lord knows there's enough stuff in these ordeals that we feel powerless to, so you have the decision here, thus the power. SO think it through carefully, pray on it if you enjoy communing w/ God (or even if you don't for that matter \:\) ... think I am giving myself away here :)) and then you will be doing just as you need to.

Hope that helps! I know that often times it is just the receipt of some feedback from others that is nice. Kinda like a hand holdin' thing in order to feel better about traversing through this perilous battleground. I use the Lord and my buddies on here for that. And ..oh yeah the couple of real friends that I have lingering around also ..LOL.

Peace to you. Have a pleasant, even joyous w/e.

T

ps- nice chattin @ ya btw.
_________________________
debut thread

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#1672818 - 12/13/08 08:57 AM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: Nasmat]
Nasmat Offline
Member

Registered: 12/01/08
Posts: 250
Loc: Georgia
So, I thought I might share the letter that he left at the house for me when I returned from Chicago - this was 11/29.

"_____,

It pains me to type this and trascend all my thoughts onto this computer without losing the meaning in the end. You do and you have brought all the good things in me out into the world. You're a beautiful woman, gorgeous, and the most intelligent person I've ever met and will ever meet. All I can do is cherish the years we've spent together and the times you've been there for me. I'll always love you, I'll always respect you, but I painstakingly have to say I have to walk my path alone. I don't know where I'm going, I just know I have to keep taking steps one after the other in order to find my peace, to find myself, to find my answer. In the end I don't know what I want out of life. I'm a simple man and only ask for the simplest of things in life, I guess. I feel I've let you down and have injured you immensely, but in the end I believe we are destined for different things and must take different paths in order to find ourselves. I feel I've hurt your family immensely but would like to say I couldn't have asked for a more understanding, more loving family. I'll probably never acheive anything that compares to you or your family. I am grateful for the time I've had with them. I'll always love tham and fear that they won't quite understand in the end and nor will you. You're destined for great things and without me I believe you will acheive everything you desired growing up and in college. You'll make someone the happiest person in the world one day.

I've changed so much over the years, we've changed so much. I look in the mirror and no longer recognize myself half the time. I feel empty. We have enough history to fill a book, a history that I'll always look back on with love. _____, I just feel that maybe we're better as best friends than husband and wife. We come from two different worlds and even though opposites do attract in the end we are what we are; apples and oranges. Certain things in our marriage bothered me. As meaningless as this is about to sound it has always bothered me. I've always felt that I took a secondary role in our relationship. I never felt like a man, like the head of the household. I always felt that I married another alpha male and always took the secondary role because in the end I love you and wanted to try to make it work. I've always wanted kids, but I never could communicate with you because in the end I don't know how to communicate. I've always had a dream to be my age right now with two kids. I know you want a child, but I can't wait until I'm old and grey with only one child, but even then I feel you would be perfectly happy without one. I've always wanted a house in the country with a family who has barbecues on the back porch with a bonfire and at least two bulldogs running around in the yard. I'm a simple man and I honestly need to feel like one. Also I felt rushed with all the major choices in our marriage. I didn't feel ready at the time to get married because at that time I didn't really know myself. I was hurt when you gave me no options in the music being played at our wedding and it made you upset when I had the disc jockey play two songs of my choice. It was my wedding too and it always bothered me. I also just did not feel ready to buy a house but I relented because I knew it mattered to you. I didn't feel ready to buy that eclipse but I knew in the end you would need a new vehicle and I knew you would never try to learn to drive the focus because not only was it a hassle, but it made you look like a cheap housewife driving an economic car. the things you said about religion a few days ago amzed me. For years I thought I was married to Hades himself (joke). I felt like over the past four years I was losing my religion. i never had anyone to help me learn my faith or support me in my faith, no one to guide me or persuade me to attend Mass. I felt like it was to the point where I doubted my beliefs and doubted myself. I just can't raise a family like that. I know all the animals we ever had I never consulted with you and for that i'm truly sorry. Lola brings great joy into our lives and I miss her immensely. I know you never liked Lucy and I understand why. I felt like I always take care of our animals. I feel if we ever have children I'm going to take a motherly role because I feel you're not wired that way and you'll take a fatherly role. You come from a background of scholarly halls and i come from blue collar salt of the earth. I need things in my life that you can't provide me. Just like there are things I can't provide for you. You are the most intelligent person I know, the most driven person I've ever known. You'll go far without me and you'll fidn true love in the end. It's not fair for you to have to settle in the end. I will always love you no matter what. Don't feel hurt when you try to communicate with me at times and I don't respond. I'm just trying to mlet go and move on. Maybe one day our paths may cross but I have to say goodbye and start a new path into the unknown.

P.S. I wrote this because it is easier for me to express my thoughts. I know it's not fair because you can't defend yourself, but in the end this is how I feel. Please don't read this with anger. I just can't visit Lola right now because it would be worse for me to see her. Please call and let me know when it is a good time for us to meet and go over all the financial issues and timelines for the separation. I'll deeply miss Christopher Lee and Ken's tentacle hands. We have a humor that I will probably never find again. Take care of yourself and be safe.

-_____"
_________________________
"Don't dream it. Be it."

First
Second

Me: 26
WAH: 27
T/M: 11/4

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#1672826 - 12/13/08 09:10 AM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: Tomato]
Nasmat Offline
Member

Registered: 12/01/08
Posts: 250
Loc: Georgia
Hi, Tomato! Thanks so much for stopping to offer advice (very sage, btw) and support. It really helps.

Thank you so much for the advice. I am definitely going to pray and ask guide for guidance. There's nothing else that I can do, and I trust in Him to show me the path.

Thank you very much again. May God bless you and keep you, and I hope that you have a wonderful weekend as well. I'm going to try. \:\)

~Nas
_________________________
"Don't dream it. Be it."

First
Second

Me: 26
WAH: 27
T/M: 11/4

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#1672850 - 12/13/08 09:40 AM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: Nasmat]
22tango Offline
Member

Registered: 10/27/08
Posts: 113
Loc: NC
Nas,

So much of what you are going through is so similar to mine. Just as you posted in my post, my H has said many of the same things as yours. Although my H has not come clean about an A, I feel in my heart that he is once again doing it because despite our differences, I cannot fathom that he could throw it all away unless there is someone else.

I am at a point right now where I have put my foot down in the friend department. As you said, I will not enable him, I will not make him feel better about his choices. He actually thinks it is better for the kids to be D'ed. H has rewritten our history as well, saying that we should never have gotten married, we were too different, but thanks for the memories.

Originally Posted By: Nasmat
All I can do is cherish the years we've spent together and the times you've been there for me. I'll always love you, I'll always respect you, but I painstakingly have to say I have to walk my path alone. I don't know where I'm going, I just know I have to keep taking steps one after the other in order to find my peace, to find myself, to find my answer. In the end I don't know what I want out of life. I'm a simple man and only ask for the simplest of things in life, I guess. I feel I've let you down and have injured you immensely, but in the end I believe we are destined for different things and must take different paths in order to find ourselves.



I have heard the EXACT same thing. It is uncanny that most of us that are going through these sitches often hear the exact same words and experience the exact same actions against us. This can only be because of the Fog.

I for one would follow Tomato's sage advice. I have a problem with this big time. H comes over to see the kids and still tries to be affectionate with me and tries to talk to me about what is going on in his new life (no mention of OW though) and I lose it. I would rather him never see me in a place where I feel powerless and unable to contain my hurt and anger...

I have to work today so H is at the house watching our son for me. He brings me my favorite breakfast, and walks into my room as I am getting son ready. It is so strange that he is so comfortable doing those things after all of this as if everything is oh so wonderful. He believes that years from now, our new families will be having barbeques together and having a great time.

All fog, and complete Bullsh*t. All ways in which to justify actions he knows in his heart to be utterly wrong.

((Nasmat)) Be strong.

Tango
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#1672854 - 12/13/08 09:53 AM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: 22tango]
Br44 Offline
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Registered: 08/01/08
Posts: 633
First - GREAT job on not responding. He is trying to bait you into a R convo and we all know that R convo's are bad! GREAT JOB.

Second - I think you should be scarce on Sunday, IF he even comes by to get his stuff. He's looking for you to escalate the situation with your anger and resentment (all justified of course, but don't let him see that - you are the better person). If you're gone, he doesn't know what is up... is she GAL, boy this is a 180 from the past few days, what is NAS up to?! Drive HIM crazy by taking care of yourself!

mc

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#1672855 - 12/13/08 09:54 AM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: 22tango]
22tango Offline
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Registered: 10/27/08
Posts: 113
Loc: NC
Originally Posted By: 22tango
I have heard the EXACT same thing. It is uncanny that most of us that are going through these sitches often hear the exact same words and experience the exact same actions against us. This can only be the Fog.


I meant to say this to tell you-don't believe a word. I think the saying goes- Don't believe anything they say and less than half of what they do!

This is because they are incapable of rational thought and behavior during the fog. Just brush it off your shoulders and concentrate on you work towards a PMA.

Sorry that that is the best advice I can give at this time.

I just wanted to say that from your posts you seem to be a very articulate and intelligent woman. You are very eloquent in the ways that you express yourself and I admire your ability to do it although you are going through some every heavy sh*t.

Tango
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#1672863 - 12/13/08 10:13 AM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: 22tango]
Br44 Offline
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Registered: 08/01/08
Posts: 633
Nas -

Hopefully this will give you some more hope. My aunt has been married 20+ years. Her husband had an affair (not sure for how many months) but she found out about it approx. 10/1/08. He moved out and into his sister's and OW also moved in with him.

Just before Thanksgiving he was a wreck, and asked to come home. He was willing to go to counseling, doctor, etc.

Just received an update about a week ago. My aunt allowed him to help OW move to another town and the affair started again.


Moral of the story (I think)... concentrate on the future. Realize that they have to take this path, and when they come crawling back (which is what we all want)... have the skills and tools necessary to help them come back and build a stronger marriage.

mc

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#1672879 - 12/13/08 10:50 AM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: 22tango]
Nasmat Offline
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Registered: 12/01/08
Posts: 250
Loc: Georgia
Hey 22tango! Thank you so much for the support. It is such a help. *hugs*

It's so funny how they rewrite history, isn't it? It's so much easier to rewrite it than to face the music. I can at least say for myself that even when I had my dalliances, I did not rewrite history the way he is rewriting it. I looked at both relationships and asked myself the difficult question, "Do I want long-term love or this fantasy, fleeting thing." It was hard, but I chose the long-term, and in the end I knew I'd done the right thing.

It's so funny, but I look back on the history of our relationship and I see so many little warning signs that I always wrote off for one reason or another.

When we were kids (I was 15, he was 16), I remember our courtship phase. We wrote so many long, long notes and letters. I knew he liked another girl at the time - a girl he worked with. She was nothing like me, more of the average girl from Savannah. Literally, she was almost indistinguishable from other people. He'd dated other girls like this before me, and they'd all broken his heart. He'd had these short, two or three week relationships with average girls that walked all over him. And so when he met me, I was different.

Really different.

I was a challenge, and I was nothing like him or those other girls. And so the day we started dating - eleven years ago, on Pearl Harbor Day - before we began dating he'd confessed that he sort of liked two girls and was making a decision between them. I knew at the time he was deciding between me and that other girl he worked with, but I was a kid and let it go. We started dating that day.

A couple of years later, as I was considering breaking up with him as high school was over and college was on the near horizon, I found out that he'd kissed that other girl three weeks after we'd started dating. At the time, I'd been upset, but I'd also written it off as youth. We'd only been dating for three weeks, so really it was almost a non-issue. I found out that alot of girls we'd been friends with at that time had tried to initiate things with him during the early stages of our relationship, but it hadn't really mattered because I'd also had alot of guys that were interested in me.

Years after finding out, I brought it up once and asked why he'd chosen me over those other girls. He'd told me it was because I was different - I was beautiful and smart and when he'd looked at me, he'd known I'd be loyal. That I wouldn't just up and leave.

That loyalty thing always bothered me. I never truly felt that he was with me because I was 100% absolutely what he wanted. Whenever I would think on that, though, I would remind myself of all the sacrifices he'd made for me - about how he never stopped looking at me like I was his whole universe. and I would remind myself that an adult should not base their feelings in the fleeting emotions and logic of children.

But still, it nagged at me a little, now and then.

While I was in college, he was in the Marine Corps. For four years we lived completely separate lives. When he was stateside, I would see him about once a month. When we saw eachother, we'd ML practically all day, and we'd have lots of fun - and yet it never felt 100% like we fit into eachother's lives at the time. We were on compeltely different paths. Looking back on that time, I see myself avoiding class - avoiding reality and responsibility in some ways, but also feeling very free. During that time, I did resent sometimes that I was in a committed, long-distance relationship. I told myself that if opportunities came, I would seize them, otherwise I would never know if I was settling. Looking back on his choices, he was straying a bit as well, especially after his mother died in what was my junior year of college. After that, he became a little wilder. He drove drunk and totalled his truck. He bought a motorcycle that he purchased with his inheritance and that he sold during the first year of our marriage. He was still devoted and still a wonderful guy, but there were signs. Even though he chose to relocate to Paris Island to be closer to his father and help him out, he resented not being deployed to Iraq qith his former friends.

So senior year of college rolls around and I start bringing up plans for the future. I was terrified by the future. I had no work history, no plan to fall back on other than moving home with my parent's, and it only felt logical that we get married.

I will admit wholeheartedly that I probably wasn't ready. Many people tried to tell me that, but I wouldn't listen. I knew that they made valid points, but in my mind, I was unwilling to give up on a great relationship simply because of timing, because all the people I knew said I had to be on my own for awhile. So yes, I did pressure him. He kept wanting to discuss our differences, and I brushed them off. Our differences made us stronger - I believed that then and I believe it now.

When he proposed, I remember being disappointed. I knew it was coming, but when it happened there were many flaws. I didn't feel like he put the effort into it that I'd expected. He proposed on Valentine's Day (partially because I'd unknowingly foiled his plans to propose on another day), which I hated. He proposed at a restaurant. He did not get down on one knee. I hated the ring, even though I told him I loved it. He'd tried really hard - it was the nicest thing he could buy: platinum and high quality stones and a princess cut. But it wasn't my style, and I felt like he should have known that.

So, in February we got engaged. In May, I came home for a month before returning to finish my last two classes in summer school. He was out of the Marine Corps and in the police academy. We argued alot. He had cold feet, was saying maybe we should live together before getting married, that we had barely seen eachother in the past four years and that maybe we needed to see how things would work together before taking the leap. He even mentioned at one point that maybe we should think about dating other people just to see if we really knew what we wanted. I was jealous and angry and suspicious. At some point, we got into a huge argument, and he stormed out of my parent's house saying the wedding was off and we were through. I sobbed and ran after him. He came back, comforted me, and we made up.

I found out after we were married that at that time he was having an EA (supposedly) with a girl that attended the police academy with him.

So, I went back to school. I'd been forming a strong friendship with a grad student that was in one of my writer's groups. He was brilliant - ridiculously intelligent, extremely driven, had a complete plan for his life. He was outgoing - everyone in town knew him, and he was a brother in a frat. He was a sum of contradictions, and I loved it - a bouncer at a strip club that was a virgin, a tough guy that was street smart yet extremely book smart as well. And he wanted me. Badly. I was the only woman in the room when I was with him despite the fact that girls threw themselves at him left and right. I was exactly what he wanted. In fact, he told me that he went after me despite my engagement because he'd told himself that for once in his life he wanted to have the one thing that he wanted most. He hadn't thought my engagement was all that serious, that I was settling into it.

I say we had an EA, but the truth is we had a sort of PA. No sex of any sort, but we kissed quite heavily. In the end, I broke it off because he couldn't live with the guilt - and because I knew in my heart that my not-yet-H and I had something lasting, something real.

So, we got married and I never spoke with my EA again. During the first year of our marriage, I was wrapped up in my grief over losing my "EA". I partied with coworkers whenever my husband was working nights. I had a true PA with a coworker that really only amounted to two encounters and then ended. Around that time, my H and I got into a huge argument about my activities - I was running up to my old college town almost every weekend, and I was constantly going out. He confronted me with his feelings - that I was not behaving as a wife, that I didn't respect anythign he did, etc. After my intial anger, I calmed down and resolved to be more supportive about his career (which I really did make a huge improvement), to stop going out (I also did that), and to live like a married woman. That same night, after we'd made up and calmed down, we talked for hours.

We felt closer than we'd ever felt. And that's why, in that moment, he told me something that I never expected. He said, "I'm going to tell you something, and I don't want you to get mad and freak out."

I bristled, and then he said the words that comepletely threw me: "I was in love with another woman."

Well, I did freak out. I was sobbing and my whole world collapsed in on itself. He rushed to comfort me, saying it had been nothing - just talking. He said that he'd had cold feet, and he'd felt that I never listened to him. That girl had things in common with him, and she listened.

When I asked why he'd chosen me, he said it was because he loved me, and because he knew I was the one for him. It was our history and our bond. I was beautiful, smart, funny, classy etc.

After the initial shock wore off, I almost felt comforted. I told him about my EA, and in the end we laughed and came back together, feeling good that we'd both gone through the same thing at almost the exact smae time and that we'd chosen eachother. I felt stronger in our love after that. We'd been tested, and we'd chosen eachother.

After that day, we rarely talked about the EAs, but it always bothered me that he'd said he loved her. He would deny ever saying it, or would say that "it just came out the worng way." But it nagged at me. About two years ago, we'd been at a friend's house, and I'd made a teasing comment about where he'd be without me - and he'd said, "probably in Iowa" (the girl was from Iowa). I'd freaked out, we'd argued, and the next day I'd said every nasty thing I could imagine about her in the car. He'd said, "she really wasn't a bad person," and I'd lost my mind.

He agreed to never speak of her again.

A little less than a year ago, he'd randomly brought up my EA. He'd asked me to tell him about the guy; he felt like he knew nothing about that part of my life. I'd dodged the question as I felt it could only stir up ugliness.

Then, in October of this year, I'd found he'd done a myspace search for that girl. It was after we'd had a particularily bad argument in which we hadn't spoken for a couple of days. I was hurt, and confronted him. He'd said it was just curiosity, and I let it go as I still check my EA's website from time to time out of curiosity.

So yes, there were many signs.

Anyways, not to write my entire life's story (felt good, though).

History, history - in the end, it's only determined by those that record it.

So yeah, like your H, the fog has got my H. Somehow, because they aren't truly ready for the finality of what they are doing, they try to live in that fantasy world where they don't truly lose anything.

But, life doesn't work that way. There's nothing to be done about it. I try to take comfort in the fact that one day, the fog will clear. Hopefully, that will be a day when I know what I want as well.

Take care, and God bless,
~Nas
_________________________
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#1672886 - 12/13/08 10:56 AM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: Br44]
Nasmat Offline
Member

Registered: 12/01/08
Posts: 250
Loc: Georgia
Quote:
First - GREAT job on not responding. He is trying to bait you into a R convo and we all know that R convo's are bad! GREAT JOB.

Second - I think you should be scarce on Sunday, IF he even comes by to get his stuff. He's looking for you to escalate the situation with your anger and resentment (all justified of course, but don't let him see that - you are the better person). If you're gone, he doesn't know what is up... is she GAL, boy this is a 180 from the past few days, what is NAS up to?! Drive HIM crazy by taking care of yourself!


Thanks, MC. I really do feel better by not responding, even though it was tough. Yeah, I think scarce on Sunday is a good idea. Maybe I'll plan to be gone for the afternoon and just tell him to come by whenever. I was going to make a point to be gone and have someone here while he was getting his stuff, but it feels a little extreme now.

Quote:
Moral of the story (I think)... concentrate on the future. Realize that they have to take this path, and when they come crawling back (which is what we all want)... have the skills and tools necessary to help them come back and build a stronger marriage.


I'm repeating that to myself, MC. I really am. Thank you for sharing your aunt's story. It was truly uplifting.

~Nas
_________________________
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Second

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#1672887 - 12/13/08 10:58 AM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: 22tango]
Nasmat Offline
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Registered: 12/01/08
Posts: 250
Loc: Georgia
Quote:
I just wanted to say that from your posts you seem to be a very articulate and intelligent woman. You are very eloquent in the ways that you express yourself and I admire your ability to do it although you are going through some every heavy sh*t.


Thanks so much, Tango! That really, seriously makes my day. \:\)

God bless,
~Nas
_________________________
"Don't dream it. Be it."

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Second

Me: 26
WAH: 27
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#1672916 - 12/13/08 11:59 AM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: Nasmat]
Nasmat Offline
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Registered: 12/01/08
Posts: 250
Loc: Georgia
Alright, so I had to call my H. I'm staying at a hotel tonight after my company's big holiday party, and so for myself I needed to at least have some idea when he was going to be at the house.

So I prayed, and I called.

He picked up on the second ring. His tone was very different today - much less of that "one of the buddies" voice and much more of the voice I'm used to hearing. He's cleaning up his new place. Said it's really dirty. Said he knew I was busy last night and that he was sorry to bug me. He said he knows I'm busy this weekend and wanted to know when it would be good to pick up a few things (I love how we keep having the same convo - it's like the twilight zone).

I said it was a really busy weekend, but that he could come over tonight (I won't be here but he doesn't know that) or tomorrow night if he needs to. He said he'll come over tomorrow night to pick up a few things - "just some big things". He asked what we should do about stuff in the cabinets, etc. He said he'd call me to ask if it was ok to take certain things (makes no sense since he's thinks I'll be here), and he then said, "Well, we can just do that stuff later (the cabinets)." I said sure, no problem.

He asked what I wanted to do about the lawnmower, etc. He said he didn't care if I kept it. I said I probably would keep it and made a joke that I did need to learn how to mow a lawn.

He mentioned again that he doesn't need to get everything now, that he just needs a few things.

He asked if Tuesday afternoon would be good for me to go to Comcast. I told him there was no way I could know until Monday because I needed to check my calendar at work as I might have meetings. He said, "Oh...oh ok. That's no problem. You're at work now aren't you?" (Totally made no sense as I just said I couldn't tell him until I got to work, but I KNOW he isn't thinking or even hearing half the time.)

I told him no, I wasn't at work but didn't elaborate.

He then said that he was thinking maybe we could go down to Comcast and grab some lunch. I said sure, that's cool, and that I'd get back with him about it. (I completely mistrust the lunch invite at this point. He sounds sincere, but I know I can't trust that at all. If i do it, I need to prepare myself for a bomb - any and every possible bomb: he's in love, he's getting married, the OW is pregnant, he's moving to Burkina Faso, he has cancer, he has an STD, he wants to file for the D tomorrow, etc.)

I asked if he'd gotten some nice new furniture and he said no, he thinks he's going to do that today. Didn't seem very excited about it.

I tried to get off the phone first - we kind of got to it at the same time. It seems like a race these days. He said he'd see me tomorrow and I said ok, take care.

The conversation lasted for exactly three minutes. Hilarious.

~Nas
_________________________
"Don't dream it. Be it."

First
Second

Me: 26
WAH: 27
T/M: 11/4

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#1672948 - 12/13/08 01:03 PM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: Nasmat]
Br44 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/01/08
Posts: 633
Originally Posted By: Nasmat
Alright, so I had to call my H. I'm staying at a hotel tonight after my company's big holiday party, and so for myself I needed to at least have some idea when he was going to be at the house.

So I prayed, and I called.

He picked up on the second ring. His tone was very different today - much less of that "one of the buddies" voice and much more of the voice I'm used to hearing. He's cleaning up his new place. Said it's really dirty. Said he knew I was busy last night and that he was sorry to bug me. He said he knows I'm busy this weekend and wanted to know when it would be good to pick up a few things (I love how we keep having the same convo - it's like the twilight zone).

I said it was a really busy weekend, but that he could come over tonight (I won't be here but he doesn't know that) or tomorrow night if he needs to. He said he'll come over tomorrow night to pick up a few things - "just some big things". He asked what we should do about stuff in the cabinets, etc. He said he'd call me to ask if it was ok to take certain things (makes no sense since he's thinks I'll be here), and he then said, "Well, we can just do that stuff later (the cabinets)." I said sure, no problem.

He asked what I wanted to do about the lawnmower, etc. He said he didn't care if I kept it. I said I probably would keep it and made a joke that I did need to learn how to mow a lawn.

He mentioned again that he doesn't need to get everything now, that he just needs a few things.

He asked if Tuesday afternoon would be good for me to go to Comcast. I told him there was no way I could know until Monday because I needed to check my calendar at work as I might have meetings. He said, "Oh...oh ok. That's no problem. You're at work now aren't you?" (Totally made no sense as I just said I couldn't tell him until I got to work, but I KNOW he isn't thinking or even hearing half the time.)

I told him no, I wasn't at work but didn't elaborate.

He then said that he was thinking maybe we could go down to Comcast and grab some lunch. I said sure, that's cool, and that I'd get back with him about it. (I completely mistrust the lunch invite at this point. He sounds sincere, but I know I can't trust that at all. If i do it, I need to prepare myself for a bomb - any and every possible bomb: he's in love, he's getting married, the OW is pregnant, he's moving to Burkina Faso, he has cancer, he has an STD, he wants to file for the D tomorrow, etc.)

I asked if he'd gotten some nice new furniture and he said no, he thinks he's going to do that today. Didn't seem very excited about it.

I tried to get off the phone first - we kind of got to it at the same time. It seems like a race these days. He said he'd see me tomorrow and I said ok, take care.

The conversation lasted for exactly three minutes. Hilarious.

~Nas


First - lets both agree that you did not HAVE to call him. But it sounds like it went reasonably well.

I know the feeling of HAVING to call someone or you can't get it off your mind. Every time I find new information... W is out doing shots on her night w/ S, W is on vacation w/ OM, W took S to OM's family Thanksgiving, etc.... I can't concentrate on anything until I tell my L and others that know my situation. It drives me crazy. So I know the feeling of HAVING to do something to keep your sanity.

Nas, keep your expectations at ZERO as much as you possibly can. He will most-likely disappoint you with his words and actions in the near future. He means nothing of what he says and only half of what he does! Remember! It will hurt no matter what, but if you expect some of it maybe it won't have quite the impact on you... good luck.

mc

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#1672957 - 12/13/08 01:29 PM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: Br44]
Nasmat Offline
Member

Registered: 12/01/08
Posts: 250
Loc: Georgia
Ok, MC. I agree. I did not HAVE to call him. In my mind, if I didn't call him, I couldn't plan my Sunday properly. I didn't want to come home from my party and have to deal with him being there without being prepared. I wanted to figure out some timeframe for him coming over just so that I could figure out how to be gone.

If I'm going to be gone.

I think I'm going to be gone.

I will be gone?

I did separate out some of his stuff that I know he'd never find and piled it in the living room for when he comes to pick up his things as I am pretty sure I won't be around.

It did go reasonably well in that I didn't leave the conversation feeling any kind of extreme emotion. Yesterday when I'd talked with him, I was ready to kill something.

I am really, really, really trying to keep my expectations at zero. Every single time I think that he might want to actually have a nice lunch and be normal because he misses me, I have to thought-stop and remind myself that there are a hundred horrible things that i have to prepare myself for. For all I know, it could be the worst lunch of my life - or just more of the same. So yeah, got to prepare.

I'm really trying to be at ZERO. If I was at 10 yesterday then I'd say I'm at 6 today. So yeah, not zero, but I'm trying. Of course, we all know how much can happen in a day.

I'm also trying my hardest to brace myself for the worst - to expect to be disappointed and hurt in really huge ways. I'm trying to prepare myself for immeasurable pain.

Of course, watching a knife come at you is nothing like getting stabbed, but I suppose it's the best I can do. The good news is that I have a party tonight. I'm gonna look hot and laugh and drink and get an award. So yeah, it'll be a good night.

Thanks for helping me, MC. I owe you big time. \:\)

~Nas
_________________________
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Second

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#1672961 - 12/13/08 01:41 PM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: Nasmat]
pearlharbr Offline
Member

Registered: 12/08/08
Posts: 2204
Hey Nas

I can't offer great advice like MC and others, but I just want to tell you again that it really helps me to read your posts. I mentioned on my thread that I think you so eloquently state *exactly* what I am feeling right now too. The roller coaster is not fun. Keep taking it one day at a time, that's all I can do right now.

And have fun at your party tonight!
_________________________
If you love somebody, set them free.
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#1672968 - 12/13/08 01:56 PM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: pearlharbr]
Br44 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/01/08
Posts: 633
Just remember... PATIENCE.

I kept thinking the next time I saw W or the next time we talked... everything would be back to normal. And when it wasn't, I got pissed.

And, remember, a lunch meeting or whatever will not make or break your situation, so don't give it that power.

Take it one day at a time. Do your best each day and things will work out for you in the end.

Have a great time tonight!

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#1673343 - 12/14/08 12:50 PM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: Nasmat]
FamMan Offline
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Registered: 12/07/08
Posts: 39
Nas,
So...how was the party? Did you get some good GALing in?

Hope things go well today when H comes to get stuff. Be strong.

FM
_________________________
Me: 41
W: 43
D13
D11
T/M 21/18
Bomb: 2/08

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#1673345 - 12/14/08 12:52 PM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: Nasmat]
Dudess Offline
Member

Registered: 08/29/08
Posts: 712
Loc: US
Originally Posted By: Nasmat
[emphasis added]You do and you have brought all the good things in me out into the world. You're a beautiful woman, gorgeous, and the most intelligent person I've ever met and will ever meet. All I can do is cherish the years we've spent together and the times you've been there for me. I'll always love you, I'll always respect you, but I painstakingly have to say I have to walk my path alone. I don't know where I'm going, I just know I have to keep taking steps one after the other in order to find my peace, to find myself, to find my answer. In the end I don't know what I want out of life. I'm a simple man and only ask for the simplest of things in life, I guess. I feel I've let you down and have injured you immensely, but in the end I believe we are destined for different things and must take different paths in order to find ourselves. I feel I've hurt your family immensely but would like to say I couldn't have asked for a more understanding, more loving family. I'll probably never acheive anything that compares to you or your family. I am grateful for the time I've had with them. I'll always love tham and fear that they won't quite understand in the end and nor will you. You're destined for great things and without me I believe you will acheive everything you desired growing up and in college. You'll make someone the happiest person in the world one day.

I've changed so much over the years, we've changed so much. I look in the mirror and no longer recognize myself half the time. I feel empty. We have enough history to fill a book, a history that I'll always look back on with love. _____, I just feel that maybe we're better as best friends than husband and wife. We come from two different worlds and even though opposites do attract in the end we are what we are; apples and oranges. Certain things in our marriage bothered me. As meaningless as this is about to sound it has always bothered me. I've always felt that I took a secondary role in our relationship. I never felt like a man, like the head of the household. I always felt that I married another alpha male and always took the secondary role because in the end I love you and wanted to try to make it work. I've always wanted kids, but I never could communicate with you because in the end I don't know how to communicate. I've always had a dream to be my age right now with two kids. I know you want a child, but I can't wait until I'm old and grey with only one child, but even then I feel you would be perfectly happy without one. I've always wanted a house in the country with a family who has barbecues on the back porch with a bonfire and at least two bulldogs running around in the yard. I'm a simple man and I honestly need to feel like one. Also I felt rushed with all the major choices in our marriage. I didn't feel ready at the time to get married because at that time I didn't really know myself. I was hurt when you gave me no options in the music being played at our wedding and it made you upset when I had the disc jockey play two songs of my choice. It was my wedding too and it always bothered me. I also just did not feel ready to buy a house but I relented because I knew it mattered to you. I didn't feel ready to buy that eclipse but I knew in the end you would need a new vehicle and I knew you would never try to learn to drive the focus because not only was it a hassle, but it made you look like a cheap housewife driving an economic car. the things you said about religion a few days ago amzed me. For years I thought I was married to Hades himself (joke). I felt like over the past four years I was losing my religion. i never had anyone to help me learn my faith or support me in my faith, no one to guide me or persuade me to attend Mass. I felt like it was to the point where I doubted my beliefs and doubted myself. I just can't raise a family like that. I know all the animals we ever had I never consulted with you and for that i'm truly sorry. Lola brings great joy into our lives and I miss her immensely. I know you never liked Lucy and I understand why. I felt like I always take care of our animals. I feel if we ever have children I'm going to take a motherly role because I feel you're not wired that way and you'll take a fatherly role. You come from a background of scholarly halls and i come from blue collar salt of the earth. I need things in my life that you can't provide me. Just like there are things I can't provide for you. You are the most intelligent person I know, the most driven person I've ever known. You'll go far without me and you'll fidn true love in the end. It's not fair for you to have to settle in the end. I will always love you no matter what. Don't feel hurt when you try to communicate with me at times and I don't respond. I'm just trying to mlet go and move on. Maybe one day our paths may cross but I have to say goodbye and start a new path into the unknown."


Okay, my situation doesn't involve an OP so maybe I just don't understand what that is like. I just want to say that after reading his letter, I have a very hard time understanding how it could be dismissed as "fog". His letter sounds very clear and from the heart to me. I hear a man who loves you and admires you a great deal, but who doesn't feel like he is "good enough" for you. I hear a man who feels like his preferences were ignored in what should have been joint decisions.

You said he is "rewriting history". Does that mean that the facts are not as he states them? You may have a very different perspective on these events and on the relationship as a whole, but these are his feelings anyway. I suppose it could be that he is seeing things differently because of OW, but isn't it also possible that he did have these feelings all along, and it was because he didn't feel like he was "good enough" and didn't feel like the alph-male, or maybe at times feel like he didn't even have a voice, that made him particularly suseptible to another woman?

It just occurs to me that maybe the reason he is gone is because these issues were not taken seriously during your marriage and I don't know how dismissing his feelings and point of view again now, and not even responding, is going to help. In fact, dismissing it as "fog" and assuming that you do know what he really wants would be more of the same of what he is complaining about.

I'm not defending his actions, I just wanted to give you an alternate pov to consider.
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#1673417 - 12/14/08 03:07 PM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: Dudess]
Nasmat Offline
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Quote:
I suppose it could be that he is seeing things differently because of OW, but isn't it also possible that he did have these feelings all along, and it was because he didn't feel like he was "good enough" and didn't feel like the alph-male, or maybe at times feel like he didn't even have a voice, that made him particularly suseptible to another woman?


I absolutely believe what he said in his letter, and I will in no way deny that he felt like he didn't have a voice in alot of things, that he felt like I was the husband, etc - and that those feelings of inadequecy, low self-esteem, powerlessness, etc made him far more susceptible to another man.

I know my descriptions of my sitch are very long, but if you read trhough my original thread, you'll see that I totally understand all of this.

The problem with the "fog" is the problem that pretty much anything I do right now is going to be fruitless because he's with the OW.

And yes, the issues he states below have always been there. In fact, in the past we have discussed them, and I've made many attempts to improve. Since we separated, I've had many changes of heart and shared those things with him. The things he said he wants in his letter in terms of family, God, etc are the exact things that he is avoiding now in his new life.

The issues that he talks about are also issues that could be worked around until just a month or so ago. Looking at the sitch, the most logical explanation is that the OW came along and suddenly the problems were amplified between me and him - seemingly insurmountable - and then there was this lovely young girl who could fill unmet needs. So then it's pow!, let's divorce. Damn, we're just too different. Damn, hurry up the divorce process.

Dudess, I guess the problem is, at this point I don't know what to believe. The rule of thumb around here is believe nothing or what they say (or write) and only 50% of what they do. It's so easy to believe his words, to believe he sincerely loves me and just feels like he needs to find himself.

But, there are signs in the opposite direction as well. In the end, I may never have the full picture of what's going on with him right now - mentally, emotionally, physically. I don't know what to believe nor how to behave.

Oh, and I did respond to his letter. That letter was left at the house for me on 11/29. Immediately after, I saw him and responded that way. I've responded in letters.

I don't know if my response made any sense. I'm a little sleep deprived right now. Thanks for coming by and offering your opinions and support. I always like to onsider a different view.

~Nas
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#1673737 - 12/15/08 12:15 AM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: Nasmat]
Nasmat Offline
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So, it's been quite an interesting weekend. The party for work ended up being a good time, and I really did enjoy myself and forget my troubles for a little while. It was nice to get out and do a little dancing and drinking and to get a little recognition at work. Sure, there were the times when I saw married couples happily flitting about and I felt a pang or two, and yes, I did think from time to time: "H was suposed to be here with me." "H was going to stay at this hotel with me." "If I was here with H, I would be slow dancing and coming back to this hotel room to order room service and ML."

But, in the end, I did have a very good time. Sure, I broke down and told a few people that we are getting a divorce. One of them, a coworker and former boss, has been making jokes for the past 3 years about my "phantom husband" because H could never make it to these parties with me in the past due to scheduling conflicts with his job. I got so sick of the "were is your phantom husband - does he even exist", that I snapped and told the idiot that we're getting a divorce. It actually felt good.

I know it was probably a bad idea to tell a couple of people as now the news will be all over the company by tomorrow afternoon, but in the end it is happening (so far), so why hide from it.

I actually had a nice day today as well. I went to breakfast with my friend, smoked on the beach for awhile, came home and took a nap, visited my parents, and went to dinner and a movie with a friend. All-in-all, a great day.

I did have some contact with my H today. He sent me a text message at 2:26 today saying, "I'll probably stop by later this evening if it's ok?"

I responded: "Sure. No prob." (As if we haven't already discussed this a 100 times now....)

He responded: "Cool. Thanks."

So, at that point I got up from my nap (was just a touch hung over) and went down to my parent's house to pick up Lola (our dog) as my parents dog-sat last night.

I'd made dinner plans to ensure that I wasn't home when my H came to get his things. As I was getting ready to leave my parent's house, H called me to say that he was in Savannah and was on the way to stop by the house to pick up a few things if it was ok. I informed him that I wouldn't be home but that he could feel free to grab whatever. I told him I'd separated out some of his things and told him where to find the rest of his family photos. He seemed disappointed to hear I wasn't going to be there, but said he understood how busy I was. He asked if I'd had a good weekend, and I said it had been excellent. I asked about his, and he said it had been nothing special, said he'd spent the weekend cleaning up his house as the people that lived there before were really dirty - said it was nothing like the hosue in _____ (our house). He said it was just a little country place and that it was ok, but that he was going to have to soak the blinds to clean them as they were so dirty. He said he was just planning to go home and play with Lucy (our parrot) later. We had the same race to get off the phone - him saying he knows I'm busy and doesn't want to keep me and me trying to get off first.

We talked for exactly 2 minutes and 57 seconds (see a pattern forming here).

The conversation was interesting. He sounded like his normal self, and actually sounded a little down. Just a little. I'm not reading anything into it, though, as I know in all likelihood he's just feeling guilty again.

So, I made a mad dash to get home and drop off Lola before before he got there. I would have made it except I ran a stop sign and got pulled over by a cop just outside of my subdivision. Luckily, I got off with a warning, but it was too late to get away without seeing him.

I was able to get Lola inside, and just as I was making my way to my car to leave, he pulled up. I think he was surprised to see me. He was wearing his "nice clothes" - his good jeans and polo that I bought him from Banana Republic. He even had on some dressier shoes instead of tennis shoes. makes me wonder if he wasn't in Savannah having lunch with OW. Who knows.

He actually seemed nervous - he has a different stance and his eyelids flutter when he's nervous, and that's what he was doing. He told me again that he was just going to grab some ammo, and I told him again that I'd separated some of his things. He thanked me and said I didn't have to do that. After talking for a minute, he walked over to give me a hug - it ended up being one of those half-hugs as I tried to keep it "friendly but not friends" - so it was the hug I'd give a random coworker. He mentioned again that he could leave his house key, but I didn't really respond. He said the new place wasn't very nice - that what he'd thought were hardwood floors when he looked in the window were really linoleum floors. He said there was no carpet at all, and that it was pretty small - just two bedrooms, a kitchen, and a common area. He mentioned going to Comcast on Tuesday again, said that he was thinking we could go to Comcast and then get some lunch. He said we could talk about plans and things if I wanted to. I told him I'd see what I could do and would get back with him tomorrow.

And then he said he knew I had to get going, and I agreed and got in my car. I told him good luck with everything and he said "take care and be safe". As I was pulling out, he stopped me and asked me if I had my revolver with me. I told him yes. He asked if I wanted him to leave me any more ammo and I said I thought the ammo I had was fine.

And then I left. He called me a minute or two later and asked if he could take the bratwurst in the freezer and if it was ok if he took a fork with him. I said no problem, and he thanked me and said he'd eat the brats for dinner. I got off the phone first - after less than a minute on the phone.

It was SO hard, but it was the right thing to do and I was glad I did it. I handled myself well - no R talk, talked very little about myself, validated, and was friendly but not a friend.

I actually had a really great time at dinner, and I enjoyed the movie. I only had a few brief moments where I thought of him. I thought I'd feel more anxious coming home, and though I was a little curious and a little nervous about what he might have taken with him (everything, lots of stuff, etc), when I got home I found that he hadn't taken anything.

I checked the entire house, and all he'd taken was the bratwurst and a can of ammo. He still has toilettries in the bathroom, some clothes in the closet, and he didn't take any of the stuff I'd separated for him. He didn't leave the key.

He had separated out a few other things - his family photos and the bird's play perch, but they are just piled up with the other stuff.

It's odd, but whatever. I can't read much into it as he could have left without taking the stuff for any reason - could have gotten called out at work, could have gotten a call from the OW. Anything.

So, there you have it. Not sure what to make of all of it, but I am trying to make nothing of it at all. Right now I feel oddly centered and nonchalant about the whole thing.

Interesting. One step closer to detachment, it seems.

I'm trying to decide what I want to do about Tuesday. Do you think I should go to lunch with him?

I suppose I might as well. I'll figure it out in the morning.

Thanks, everyone, and goodnight.

~Nas
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#1673807 - 12/15/08 07:27 AM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: Nasmat]
marriedCrazy Offline
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Nas...

My first observation is that he's looking for more interaction with you:

1 - because he keeps contacting you with the same requests, even though you've responded over and over again with the same response.

2 - he wants lunch with you when you go to Comcast. (BTW, DirecTV is better)

3 - He took absolutely nothing. This is the most confusing, or telling sign.

It makes me wonder if he's trying to keep you on a line for a safe place to land if things with OW don't go as planned. Cake-eating at its best. My W still has all of her belongings except for some clothes and all of her primping/beauty items.

I would think hard about going to lunch with him. I know the lure of it; but I'm not sure what the result of it would be. My thoughts would be to treat the encounter like a business deal. Maybe ask him what he wants to discuss. I'd be wary of R talks since his actions show he's in no hurry to get his stuff out of your house.

Good Luck Nas.
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#1673819 - 12/15/08 08:10 AM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: marriedCrazy]
nw626 Offline
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Registered: 10/06/08
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Nas
I think you did great on Sunday with H, especially on no R talk.
You are right. It seems like your loving detachment is working.
MC is correct, just treat the Tuesday lunch as business meeting if you decide to go.
You are doing good...
Keep up the good work.

NW626
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#1673863 - 12/15/08 09:34 AM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: nw626]
Nasmat Offline
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Registered: 12/01/08
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Hey, Tom and NW626! Thanks for stopping by and offering support and encouragement. It helps out so much!

I would agree that he's looking for more interaction with me as well, Tom. I don't want to read anything into that because there could be a hundred reasons for that - cake-eating, doubts, guilt, an argument with the OW. Who knows. I'm working hard to make sure my expectations and interpretations stay really low.

What's funny is it's not just that he wants to go to lunch with me - he's also mentioned it about 10 times now.

The fact that he took nothing is really, really strange. Once again, trying not to read anything into it. He could have gotten called out at the last minute for a drug bust or something. Who knows. He did take the time to put out a bill for me and change the toilet paper roll in the master bathroom, though. Strange little things....

I feel pretty good right now because I'm not half as fixated as I would have been a week ago. I'm actually thinking about and looking forward to other plans this week - stuff with friends, getting some things in the house done. I'm steeling myself for the worst at lunch and telling myself that it's just tantamount to lunch with an acquaintance. I think I am going to go, but I have a 2:00 coaching session today so I'm thinking I should hold off on a decision until I talk to her.

I am definitely weary of the R talks. I'm going to talk to my coach and try to prepare myself for responding to the worst case scenarios.

NW626, thanks so much for the encouragement! I feel good right now, so I'm just going with it. Loving detachment is getting a touch easier - perhaps because detachment is getting easier. I'm thinking about him alot less, and I actually have some trepidation of my own, now.

Interesting stuff.

Thanks, fellas! *hugs*

~Nas
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#1673872 - 12/15/08 09:44 AM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: Nasmat]
FamMan Offline
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Good Job Nas!

You handled that really well. That takes a lot of strength.

All the signs from the Sunday interraction look really positive. You are wise to not read too much into them, but you can be encouraged by them.

We should start a pool to guess how many more times he will call about lunch on Tuesday

Keep up the good work. Keep praying.

FM
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#1673886 - 12/15/08 09:55 AM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: FamMan]
Nasmat Offline
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Registered: 12/01/08
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Hi, FamMan! *hugs* Thanks for the support and encouragement, and I hope you had an excellent weekend. It was really hard to walk away on Sunday, but I feel good about it. I feel encouraged but cautious. I think it's a good thing that I'm letting the rope down a tiny bit more. If this had happened the previous weekend, I would have been reading way too much into it and would have been back on the "let's reconcile right now" bandwagon.

I'm so not on that bandwagon right now. I feel much more grounded. I know there will need to be lots of work and change and effort for this to work, and sometimes I question whether I should be fighting. it doesn't mean I'm giving up - I'm just finally starting to refocus on myself a bit. It feels good. \:\)

I totally think we should start a pool. I say I talk to him at least 3 more times about Tuesday - let's say twice today and then once tomorrow. \:\)

~Nas
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#1674437 - 12/15/08 08:55 PM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: Nasmat]
Nasmat Offline
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So, today was interesting and in general a pretty good day. I managed to get alot done at work, and that felt good. I really have been avoiding work completely, and that created alot of extra guilt that I was carrying around with me.

I talked to my DB coach today, and she seemed very optimistic about everything. To be honest, I'm not sure that her feeling that he's doubting things is correct. She feels that my H is second-guessing and that explains his nervousness (asking the same question a hundred times), the fact that he's comparing our houses, and the fact that he didn't take stuff. She thinks on on the right track - being friendly - and that I should make an effort to keep demonstrating that I respect him and that I care for him as a "dear friend".

I'm not so sure, but I did call him from the office today and I left him a voicemail saying that I had conference calls in the morning but should be able to make it to Comcast tomorrow.

So, the whole bloody day went by and he didn't call me back. I know what you're going to say - I shouldn't have called him again - but really, I have a life to plan. I know, I know. If I didn't hear from him, I could have just gone to work and made him reschedule.

But I didn't. I called him tonight - at around 7:00. He didn't pick up. At that point, I got pissed.

I know, I know.

So I sent him a text to his other phone:

"Hey when are we meeting tomorrow? Have to schedule a meeting around it. Thanks."

He called me back a few seconds later and apologized for not returning my call. He said he was down at his dad's getting some stuff (his phones don't get much reception down there). He said that we didn't have to do the Comcast thing tomorrow if another day was better for me. I said it was fine - it was up to him - but that I didn't have a whole free day anytime soon so it was no big deal. He said Comcast was coming out to his place to set up his cable tomorrow from 8:00 - 12:00, so could I make it at around 1:00. I said that would be fine. He said he didn't want me to have to waste gas going back to Hilton Head that evening for a meeting, but I said it was no big deal. He asked how my party went this weekend. I said it was great, and he asked about a few mutual friends that attended. I didn't give much info. He asked if I'd stayed overnight on the island and I said yes, but I didn't elaborate. He said he'd ask the Comcast guy tomorrow where their store was located. He beat me to the f***ing punch in terms of getting off the phone again - I'd swear he was DBing if I didn't know better. It's really like a race these days. Call time: 3 minutes, 25 seconds.

And yeah, now I'm really gonna get my chops busted. I called him back a few minutes later to tell him when Comcast was located. I got off the phone first. Call time: 34 seconds.

He was using that detached voice of his that he uses when other people are around him - makes me think he's likely with OW right now and was lying about being at his dad's (I could tell he was driving). That b****.

So, I also did some other naughty things today. I confess that I have access to his email account. He doesn't know it, but I do. I've been checking it to see if he's been emailing that b****. Well, today I see that he got online confirmation for an order from Ross Simons, a jewelry store that I buy/he bought alot of my jewelry from. So I logged into Ross Simons as him to check out his order. I found his new address. And I found what he ordered.

A pair of earrings (cheap ones, at that). You can find them here: http://www.ross-simons.com/products/025775.html

So, that got me to wondering whether he bought them for OW. Of course, he could have bought them for one of his sisters seeing as how he had been talking about buying one of them jewelry for birthday or Christmas, but then again he has two sisters. Why buy for one and not the other. It looks like on the shipping info that they are being shipped here. That should be fun - if he doesn't catch it in time. He's having them 2nd day shipped which makes me wonder if they aren't for OW as his sisters won't be in town until Christmas Eve - if they do come.

And then, I did a little more detective work. Ladies and gentlemen, I found out where OW works. Apparently, she got off work at 7:00, so he very well may have been with her - would explain him not picking up the phone as much as him being at his dad's house.

Someone needs to stop me from going down to the restaurant to scope her out. If I do, I'll be totally exposed, so I know I can't. This isn't a restaurant that's anywhere near where I'd normally go. I am considering sending in a spy, though -someone he doesn't know. Lord, somebody stop me. I am on a rampage. I really will find someone to go down there and report back about this b****.

Also, someone please stop me from getting in my car and driving past his little s***hole of a home.

Right now, I just feel like I want revenge. Lots of revenge.

Not a good mindframe for tomorrow, I know. It's not even like I feel like I want him back right now. He feels pretty dead to me at the moment. Mostly, I want vengeance.

~Nas
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#1674446 - 12/15/08 09:20 PM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: Nasmat]
marriedCrazy Offline
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Quote:
Mostly, I want vengeance.


Don't we all?

Be careful of that emotion...you could do things that you can't recover from.

Let's also remember that any more snooping in his life does nothing for you but cause you grief. It doesn't change the sitch; you already know he's with another woman. What does knowing more do for you?

I really relaxed with my sitch when I was able to set up my life without having to depend on her. I quit watching what she did online and cancelled her cell phone. I just quit caring about what she did outside the M; because I couldn't control it and I decided to stop letting IT control me and my actions. I've never been more at peace within my M. Now, I'd be lying if I said that none of it bothers me a little; but I choose let it roll of my back.

Good evening Nas..
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#1674458 - 12/15/08 09:38 PM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: marriedCrazy]
Nasmat Offline
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Hey, Tom. \:\) I know you have a very good point. Before I didn't really care about the OW, and everything is fine. This is a waste of my energy for sure, and yes, I know I'm only hurting myself.

*sigh*

Seriously, though, I've got an itch now, and it wants to be scratched. I want to know about this girl. I want to know everything.

I mean, you can't play a game well if you don't know all of your opponents....

And I think perhaps I just want to know how seriously he's lying to me, how much is really invested. Knowing that, at least I can better assess my desire to stay.

I mapquested directions from the restaurant to his new place. He lives 4 minutes and 56 seconds away. How sweet.

I know. I need to detach. Who cares, right?

And yet....

~Nas, feeling very, very evil
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#1674462 - 12/15/08 09:47 PM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: Nasmat]
marriedCrazy Offline
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Quote:
I mean, you can't play a game well if you don't know all of your opponents....


Actually, DB'ing does teach that you should be aware of what the OP is giving; so that you know what your S is getting from them.
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#1674471 - 12/15/08 09:56 PM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: marriedCrazy]
Br44 Offline
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Registered: 08/01/08
Posts: 633
Nas -

You need to stop initiating contact with him. It is not good for your PMA and causes you to get back on the rollercoaster.

Believe me, I know how you feel... you seem to be my female twin in your attempts to DB. Don't feed into his BS... it will set you back.

Your emotions are running your decisions right now and that is normal... but it hurts your cause of getting your husband back.

You will question whether you even want him back... but, YOU DO!

Remember... we are here for you...


Edited by makingchanges (12/15/08 09:57 PM)

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#1674494 - 12/15/08 10:31 PM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: Br44]
Nasmat Offline
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Registered: 12/01/08
Posts: 250
Loc: Georgia
Hey, my male twin! ;\)

Yeah, so I totally knew you were gonna bust my chops for initiating. I know, I know. I actually do appreciate it. Eventually, your advice will get through my thick skull....

Dammit.

I think the biggest challenge for me is working with my "need to plan" personality. It is practically impossible for me to not schedule my time - especially during the work week.

And yeah, I should have just planned ot go to work tomorrow if he didn't call and said to Hell with it, he can reschedule.

I should have never called him. I should have let him call me.

Oh well. It's done.

And yes, I am questioning whether I want him back in a big way right now. I miss our old life, and I miss the person I thought I knew - but both options are truly dead. If we can recover from this, I will never be able to think of him as that same person again, and I don't much care for this new person.

It's funny, I looked at him on Sunday and thought that it's just him, it's just my same H. Same dopey smile. Same face. Same mannerisms.

But then there are days like today. Days when it's the alien I'm dealing with, and it makes me crazy.

And i do have to keep asking myself, "What self-respecting woman fights for a man who cheats on her?" Why would I want to be with him? Why would I want to run after someone who is walking away from me? Why should I think that this isn't just who he is. I mean, 11 years ago he kissed a girl he worked with after we'd been dating for three weeks. Then 4 years ago, he had something - who knows what - with a girl he worked with before we got married. And now here we are again - it's a girl that he sees when he eats lunch at work.

Short of putting him on house arrest, perhaps I am kidding myself here. I can't help but think that I deserve to be with someone that really does put me above all others.

And I can't help but feel like the pieces are coming together now. When he was acting crazy last Friday, calling every 5 minutes about Comcast or some other BS, he was at lunch.

Gee, I wonder where he was eating.

I'm sure all of his coworker-buddies know and think it's just great. None of them have any respect for women.

And now I see that his little hellhole of a place is a whopping 4 minutes and 56 seconds away from OW's restaurant. How convenient.

I can't help but feeling like I've been played for a fool - or rahter that I've allowed it. Perhaps I do need to just let go. I can't say that I'm hanging on right now because of love. It feels a whole lot more like anger.

I can't get it out of my head that I need to know about this girl. I need to know her full name, what she looks like, how her voice sounds, where she's from, where she lives, what her family is like.....

On and on. Ad infinitum, ad nauseum.

And then I want to know the real truth. How often he sees her. How many times he calls her. How often does he f*** her. How long has it really been going on. Does she know he's married. Does she know his little buddies.

And then I want to squash her like a bug.

At that point, I'd be done.

We'll see how it goes tomorrow. I need to do some serious praying tonight to help calm me down for when I see him tomorrow. The last thing I want is to explode on him. It would ruin my competative edge.

~Nas
_________________________
"Don't dream it. Be it."

First
Second

Me: 26
WAH: 27
T/M: 11/4

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#1674519 - 12/15/08 11:08 PM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: Nasmat]
Br44 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/01/08
Posts: 633
Nas-

I have been going thru this since May. It is not easy. I have questioned many things about myself, my marriage and my family. I still do not know how I truly want this all to end. Well I know exactly what I want to happen, but it is out of my control.

Maybe you can be successful at a 180 by letting loose a little bit and not being so structured or planned in all of your actions. That is probably what I need to do as well... loosen up a little bit and go with the flow.

One last thing to remember. You do not need to call him.

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#1674527 - 12/15/08 11:25 PM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: Br44]
nw626 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/06/08
Posts: 498
Nas
I know you are angry. It is not easy once you find out all these things about your H and OW.
I agree with MC. All the snooping will not help you and it will only hurt you more. You want to know about the OW.
What are you going to do with all this information?
Are you going to expose/confront them?
What is your ultimate goal?
I think it is time to drop the rope, stop react to him/his action.
Keep this in mind, you will not make the best decision when you are angry.
I hope you will be much calmer before tomorrow meeting.
Stay focus and you can do this.

NW626
_________________________
Me:33 STBXW:38 S:3
It's not whether you win or lose, it's how you fight the fight....!!

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#1674636 - 12/16/08 07:08 AM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: nw626]
Nasmat Offline
Member

Registered: 12/01/08
Posts: 250
Loc: Georgia
Journal:

I woke up at 3:00 AM again - and at 6:30. At 3:00, it was another nightmare, another dream of this monster that inhabits my once-partner's body. And now, I woke up to cry. To cry and cry and cry and beg God to help me understand this, to help me to know what to do and what to feel.

And really, just to cry from the ache of it all. I keep asking myself why he would do this. I can't think about the person I knew and make sense of all of this.

How can he hurt me this badly? How can he stand it? how can he live with it?

Did I ever really know him at all?

Is every memory a lie? Was my every interpretation of him - who he was, what he was thinking, what he was doing - wrong?

It's like half of my life is being erased. The part of me that is him - that has grown into him over 11 years - is being wiped out.

I don't even know how to be myself right now because half of myself is him.

I don't know how I'm going to handle meeting with him today. Perhaps I should cancel. Perhaps I should get dressed, go to work, and avoid this altogether.

I need to drop the rope, and I need God's help to drop it because I don't think I can manage it on my own. Not now.

If I'm out with friends, I'm ok. If I'm busy, it's not so bad. But I'm wearing my friends down and I'm unable to distract myself sufficiently when I'm alone.

I sat beside the ocean on Sunday and was literally awed by the beauty of it. There was such light on the water despite the grayness of the day. There was such beauty that I still have no words for it. That light was God. I knew it then, and I know it now.

I am like a grain of sand on that ocean bottom, drifting in the dark currents, yearning upwards towards God but unable to reach those dazzling heights.

And on the murky bottom, I feel so alone.

The man I trusted with everything has abandoned me - has betrayed me. He is voluntarily cutting out my heart. He is making choices that ultimately force me to lose so much - not just his love, our marriage, our history - but this house I love that I do not know if I can afford. My car that I love that may cost too much. My sense of comfort and stability. My foundations, my dreams.

Everything is drifting away in the current, and I am but a grain of sand without a voice in my fate.

~Nas
_________________________
"Don't dream it. Be it."

First
Second

Me: 26
WAH: 27
T/M: 11/4

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#1674672 - 12/16/08 08:28 AM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: Nasmat]
Nasmat Offline
Member

Registered: 12/01/08
Posts: 250
Loc: Georgia
Dammit, I can't decide if I should cancel or not.

I honestly don't feel like going. I don't feel like seeing him. I don't feel like dealing with it.

I just want to lay in bed and sleep.

Damn.

~Nas
_________________________
"Don't dream it. Be it."

First
Second

Me: 26
WAH: 27
T/M: 11/4

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#1674680 - 12/16/08 08:39 AM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: Nasmat]
nw626 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/06/08
Posts: 498
Nas
I am sorry for your sadness.
Cry is ok, let it all out.

If you think it is best not to see him today, just cancel the meeting. You need a break from this.

We (LBS) always have this question ...why...why me?
What did I do to deserve this?
I wish I have an answer for you.
All the memories (good/bad) are REAL for you and your H. He is not the same person that you once know, at least not now and you may never find that person again.

Loneliness is not an easy feeling. Is there anything that you want to do by yourself? Like go for a run, gym, read, write...etc
Focus on something that you want to do that make you happy.

Use this time to work on yourself and you will be ready for your next lucky star. He may be your H to start a new R with or someone else, only time will tell.

God has his funny way to do things. It may not be the way that we want, but it is the right way. God has laid this challenge for you. I know you are a strong woman Nas. I know you will tackle this with your best of your ability. Once you have done the best that you can, what else God can ask for?

Just give it sometimes. The anger, sadness and loneliness will pass. At least it will not border you as much as before.

You are a strong and smart woman.
You can do this.

NW626
_________________________
Me:33 STBXW:38 S:3
It's not whether you win or lose, it's how you fight the fight....!!

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#1674914 - 12/16/08 12:38 PM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: nw626]
Nasmat Offline
Member

Registered: 12/01/08
Posts: 250
Loc: Georgia
Journal:

Well, he cancelled on me. He called while I was in the shower. He left a voicemail saying:

"Hey ____ [my pet name]. Just calling to tell you it's best we should probably reschedule. I called Comcast and they said they were supposed to be here between 8:00 and 1:00 not 8:00 and 12:00 like they told me yesterday. And they also said the guy is running late. Knowing them, they won't be here until 4:00 or 5:00. It's no hurry, though. We can reschedule whenever is convenient for you - later this week or next week or whenever. I'm gonna send you a text as well to make sure you get this. If you could give me a call back whenever you get a chance, I'd really appreciate it. I also wanted to say that I really appreciate you being so understanding and going out on a limb for me. I know things are crazy for us now, and I'm sorry that we have to go through all of this. Ok, well give me a call when you can. Take care. Bye ___ [pet name]."

Then he texted me:
---"Just left a voicemail. Unable to do today. Comcast is runnin late. Not in a hurry, we can do this whenever you're able to. The bill should come here. We'll handle it later. Thanks for being understanding. Call me when you can. Thanks ___ [my pet name]."

Then he called me fifteen minutes later.

And he called another 15 minutes later.

And then, 20 minutes later he called again, while I was on the phone with a friend. After several rings, I clicked over.

When I finally picked up, I explained that I'd gotten his message but was on a conference call. I told him it was no big deal but that I would probably need to reschedule for sometime in January - until then, I would just pay the bill online or transfer the money to his bank account. He said it was no problem, said he wasn't worried about any of that. He said he was really sorry for putting me through all of this, and that he wanted me to know that he really appreciates how understanding I'm being. He said he just wanted me to know that he feels really horribleabout everything. I told him I understand how he would feel that way and that it will be ok. He said he doesn't want me to think he doesn't care about me. He said he still cares about me alot and he really still wants "us to always be friends". He said he's sorry for putting "us" through all of this mess and that he's sorry that we have to deal with all of this financial stuff. I said, "I hear you, and I know you have to do what you have to do for yourself." I kept my tone very light. He sounded very down the entire conversation, and if I didn't know better, I would have thought he was on the verge of tears. He beat me to the f***ing punch by saying he didn't want to bother me any longer, that he knews I was busy. I told him to take care, and we got off the phone. Duration: 4 minutes, 25 seconds.

So, I'm taking it with a grain of salt. I will not allow myself to read into the conversation, nor will I allow myself feel upset about today. I've decided that I'm going to order some movies and some pizza and just have fun with my day.

God is great, and He works in mysterious ways. I am happy to be alive and have a little fun time with myself.

Love you all,
~Nas
_________________________
"Don't dream it. Be it."

First
Second

Me: 26
WAH: 27
T/M: 11/4

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#1674919 - 12/16/08 12:41 PM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: nw626]
Nasmat Offline
Member

Registered: 12/01/08
Posts: 250
Loc: Georgia
Thank you so much, NW626. I can't tell you how much your words mean to me.

Today I am going to do everything that I want to do - veg out, eat some junk food, go see friends tonight. I'm not going to let this get me down, and I'm not going to let some man or some girl drag me down. I am strong, and I am worth way more than that.

And God is with me. He is with all of us.

Thank you so much again. You really did lift my spirits tremendously. Thank you, and may God bless you and keep you always. \:\)

~Nas
_________________________
"Don't dream it. Be it."

First
Second

Me: 26
WAH: 27
T/M: 11/4

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#1674938 - 12/16/08 01:03 PM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: Nasmat]
FamMan Offline
Member

Registered: 12/07/08
Posts: 39
Hey Nas,

So even though you didn't have the meeting today, He called, what? Four times, and sent a text...all to say the same thing. I am not even there and I am getting to know his script by heart. "sorry, don't want to hurt you" blah blah blah. So who won the pool?

I am really sorry to hear about your frustrating day yesterday...BUT - You did awesome this weekend AND you are doing great today:


Quote:
Today I am going to do everything that I want to do - veg out, eat some junk food, go see friends tonight. I'm not going to let this get me down, and I'm not going to let some man or some girl drag me down. I am strong, and I am worth way more than that.


Way to go!

Quote:
And God is with me. He is with all of us.


Absolutely! Let us not forget that when we (and I all too often forget) are hurting.

FM
_________________________
Me: 41
W: 43
D13
D11
T/M 21/18
Bomb: 2/08

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#1675584 - 12/17/08 08:46 AM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: FamMan]
Nasmat Offline
Member

Registered: 12/01/08
Posts: 250
Loc: Georgia
Quote:
So even though you didn't have the meeting today, He called, what? Four times, and sent a text...all to say the same thing. I am not even there and I am getting to know his script by heart. "sorry, don't want to hurt you" blah blah blah.


It does get kind of redundant, doesn't it? I'm actually glad that we didn't meet yesterday. I wasn't in the right place mentally, and I ended up having a good day regardless.

Thanks so much for stippoing in to offer support. It really, really helps! \:\)

God bless,
~Nas
_________________________
"Don't dream it. Be it."

First
Second

Me: 26
WAH: 27
T/M: 11/4

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#1675707 - 12/17/08 11:23 AM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: Nasmat]
pearlharbr Offline
Member

Registered: 12/08/08
Posts: 2204
Hey Nas

I was off the board yesterday so I'm just catching up with you. I'm glad you didn't have to meet with him yesterday if you weren't up to it.

Not meaning to threadjack, but I just want you to know I'm going through the same thing with OW. Some days I can just let it roll off my back, and then I do a bad thing and check his "secret" email to see what they're up to. He took OW out to dinner last night and lied to me about it, said he was playing basketball. I am so filled with rage right now I'm shaking. And all I want is revenge. So I know that snooping isn't doing me any good but I can't help myself. Plus I'm printing all of these emails out in case I need them when it comes time for a financial settlement. And I'm even contemplating outing them at work and I'm hoping HR has some policy against employees dating.

So, all this was just to say you're not alone, we're all struggling right now. I just hope you can stay stronger than me, I think you can.


Edited by pearlharbr (12/17/08 11:23 AM)
_________________________
If you love somebody, set them free.
http://tinyurl.com/2empx2g

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#1676469 - 12/18/08 10:38 AM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: pearlharbr]
Nasmat Offline
Member

Registered: 12/01/08
Posts: 250
Loc: Georgia
Hey, hun! {{{{pearlharbr}}}}

Thanks so much for coming by and checking on me. I admit I haven't been so great at keeping up with everyone, and I need to spend some time catching up today.

No worries about threadjacking - you're not doing that at all. I'm sorry to hear about the BS with OW. Too bad she didn't choke on her dinner, eh? It's sickening to consider how often they are likely lying. My head starts to spin if I really, truly start considering the vast possibilities for deception.

It's definitely a good idea to keep a file of the proof just in case, although I'm not sure if it's admissable in court because you got the emails without his permission. I'd check into that if possible just to make sure it's ok. The last thing you want to do is crucify yourself.

And oh, the HR thing. Man, if only.... In all seriousness, though, I wouldn't do anything until you get to a place where you are much less emotionally invested. You don't want to be reacting/lashing out because of your craziness of the grief rollercoaster. I know how tempting it is, and I know how difficult and unfair it seems to have all of this anger and sadness that cannot be directed at its source - but in the end, you're being the bigger person. You're doing the right thing, and I truly believe that positive energy will come back to you manyfold.

I'm working really hard to stay strong myself, although I tend to fall off that train rather often. I'm doing ok with some primitive attempts at thought-stopping as I refuse to allow this situation to rule my life.

I'm happy to at least be thinking about things a little less each day. Sometimes it seems like a huge effort to try and feel contented, but it is happening bit by bit, millimeter by millimeter.

And there are moments of beauty, and in those moments, I remember that God is always with us, in the details.

And I've been happy. I've had a few hours here and there where I've had real fun that was untainted by my H in any way.

I've felt a little less rage the past couple of days - mostly because I'm trying to prevent myself from dwelling on what might be happening, on what past revelations might have been lies, on what might be going on in his head, etc. It's hard, but I have to accept that I will likely never know the whole truth and nothing but - the truth may be out there, but I don't have access to it. Bitterness is setting in now and then - as is sadness. But it's a letting-go kind of sadness. I went to a Christmas play put on by an inner-city kids' group last night, and as I watched them sing, as I watched their parents in the audience, I realized that I will not have that with my H.

He doesn't want it anymore. He stopped believing in it, in us.

And I didn't think I wanted it until it was too late.

I thought of the vacations we'll never take, the jokes we'll never make, the lazy comfort we'll never share again. I thought of the dreams I'd had for this holiday season. I thought of the plans I'd already begun to make for our 5th wedding anniversary next year.

The trips to Europe we'll never take.

The fire we'll never sit beside in that cabin in the snow.

The lobster we'll never eat in Maine.

The marshmallows we'll never toast of my first camping trip.

The ghost stories we'll never tell, the books we'll never read aloud, the movies we'll never watch, the dinners we'll never eat, the grass we'll never plant, the walks we'll never take, the musuems we'll never visit, the children we'll never raise, the life we'll never live....

When I became tired, I thought of how much solace I would have found in a lazy evening spent on the couch at home with him.

That is, until I remembered that the "him" I wanted to find comfort with no longer exists. Maybe he never existed at all.

I was visited by many phantom desires, but like all ghosts, eventually, the began to fade, to become less and less opaque.

I have to wonder if he is haunted by me. I have to wonder if his mind turns to this situation even half as much as mine does.

I felt some anger and some bitterness. In many ways, he's robbed me of so much more than his companionship. he's stolen the last of my childhood delusions, my faith in him, my confidence in my perceptions, my ability to trust without question, my comfort and stability, my dreams for the future and the last vestiges of my childish naivette.

And I am enraged because of it. I am sickened by his presumtious self-satisfaction in his new life, at his arrogant belief that he is setting me free as well.

I am bitter because I was left without choice. I am bitter because the one person I loved and trusted above all others has wounded me by exposing me to my greatest fears.

The fear of being laughed at, of being the punchline in a joke.

The fear of being rejected, of not being respected.

The fear of being reduced in stature, of being made to feel like the little girl that was bullied instead of the woman that she became.

The fear of change and of realising that much of my life was a delusional projection of my naive desires. As my H told me himself, "life is not a fairytale, Nas."

And of course, the fear of being eclipsed by some average little girl.

It's funny that this is what happened - that he could care so little for me and so much for himself that he willingly stabbed me in both my heart and my back.

Just imagine that I had a lifelong, overwhelming fear of fire - and the fire is a metaphor for being laughed at by his buddies. The fire is being talked about behind my back by my own H and best friend. The fire is being cheated on by the one "good man" in the world. The fire is the belief that no matter how smart of talented or educated or interesting or funny I am, I cannot measure up to women that might like all of my other traits but that just happen to be skinny - that I am not attractive enough or special enough to overcome the extra weight.

And now imagine that not only do I have a fear of fire but I also have a more specific fear of gasoline fires. The gasoline is the average, Georgia-born waitress that just happens to be thinner.

And then imagine that my H - my best friend, my partner, my touchstone - is faced with having to kill me to save himself. Sure, he could drown me. He could stab me. He could strangle me.

But no, he sees a can of gasoline and says hey, I like gasoline. And so instead, he lights me on fire.

That's what I feel like in the darkest moments - like someone who has not only been hurt, but who has been hurt malisciously, needlessly, by the very tools (my fears) that I shared out of trust.

I feel cheated out of my life, my dreams. It wasn't enough to sacrifice for him by working a job I hated so he could be free to explore his career. It wasn't enough to compromise on matters of lifestyle, location, etc, just so that we could be together. It wasn't enough to stay with him despite tempting opportunities to live a more stimulating lifestyle, and it wasn't enough to reformat my own lifelong dreams again and again just to ensure that we could reach those places together.

No. It wasn't enough.

But it should have been. He is weak where I am strong. What he tries to rationalize as being free-spiritied is in truth a lack of steadfastness, an inability to roll up one's sleeves and do the hard work when the work gets hard. He's just running scared, and it makes me sad for him. It makes me pity that he lacks the wisdom to be able to avoid making huge mistakes by employing logic. I am sad that he doesn't have the fortitude or the foresight to know better than to make this mistake. I feel sorry for him because he is now and has always been the sort of person that has to f*** up in order to learn anything.

You can't tell him "don't touch the stove because it's hot." He's going to touch it anyways and then learn from the burn.

I was always the exact opposite. As a child, I rarely got into any trouble, and I only ever got one spanking - that was because I knew about consequences. I didn't have to experience punishment to understand it. Forethought, my friends. There's a reason why Prometheus got his a** handed to him for giving that little gift.

Conversely, my husband got into trouble every single day - usually multiple times. No matter how many spankings he got and how many times he was grounded, he kept repeating the same mistakes.

I look at the way he's been changing over the past few years, and I see him tempting fate. He takes more and more risks. He's cavalier about his own mortality, about consequences.

He thinks he is above the law in many ways, and he thinks he is above paying for his hubris.

Ah, the naive. I wonder how long it will take for him to begin growing up? I wonder when he'll actually start getting some clarity and figuring things out.

When I think of the person I knew and then try to match that person up with the arrogant, apathetic fool that looked at some po-dunk, nobody, little-kid waitress one day and thought "why not" - that began flirting and pretending to be some important, suave guy - I feel sick. I feel like erasing him from my my memory, from my life.

But those moments pass. I still love Jekyl even if I loathe Hyde. But eventually, one of those personalities must win out. Whether the victor will be the good scientist or the monsterous experiment-gone-awry is a tale that only time will tell.

~Nas
_________________________
"Don't dream it. Be it."

First
Second

Me: 26
WAH: 27
T/M: 11/4

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#1676639 - 12/18/08 01:54 PM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: Nasmat]
justwaitn Offline
Member

Registered: 12/05/08
Posts: 32
Wow...you sound like I did a few months ago. Actually, how I feel on my down days. One reason I haven't been posting.

I have to say I love, love, love your writing style...(i know, not on subject, but who doesn't need a little praise every now and again.)

It will get easier. You will suddenly realize that its been an hour since you last thought of H. and then two hours...you get the picture. And it sounds like you are almost there.

I don't see it mentioned much on the forums, but have you ever thought of an anti-anxiety med? You seem to have an active mind, like myself, one that doesn't ever seem to shut off. An anti-anxiety med would help slow down your thinking and help you sleep or work. its not something you would have to take every day either.

I know hope is hard to find...but it is there. And you will be so surprised when and where you find it. Just keep looking. Keep your mind and heart open.

Let me know when you need some hope and I will be here for you!

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#1676641 - 12/18/08 01:56 PM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: Nasmat]
Nasmat Offline
Member

Registered: 12/01/08
Posts: 250
Loc: Georgia
Journal:

I am so exhausted today. I have been progressively more and more tired over the past several days. I feel as though I could sleep for days.

And so I am sitting here at work, procrastinating. I seriously need to slap myself into action today, but so far I'm not having much luck. I've got to lead a conference call in oh, 10 minutes, and I am so not prepared.

Ho hum.

At least I count myself lucky because I have not felt like contacting H yet. I just saw a picture of us that I forgot to remove from my screensaver, and for once I had no internal reaction at all.

Hooray for baby steps!

So, I'm wondering if I should send Christmas cards/gifts to his family. I already bought his sisters, his parents and his baby nephew gifts before all of this happened (don't think he knows that, though), and I was planning on sending cards to everyone for Christmas. I get that I don't need to send him a gift or a card, but what about the others? I'm not sure if that makes things awkward or gives the impression of pursuing - plus I don't want it to be too weird that he doesn't have anything from me.

I suppose I could re-gift most of it.

What do ya'll think?

~Nas, yawning
_________________________
"Don't dream it. Be it."

First
Second

Me: 26
WAH: 27
T/M: 11/4

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#1676645 - 12/18/08 02:03 PM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: Nasmat]
WaitingPatiently Offline
Member

Registered: 12/01/08
Posts: 287
Loc: North East
Nasmat,

I am really feeling your pain. I was flipping through all of our old photos of great vacations, road trips, memories, etc., and it is just heart wrenching. I too think about the trips we'll never take (ironically, lobster in Maine and Europe were in our plans as well). We just have to remind ourselves that it is their loss. They chose to leave us--we are worth more!!! You will find someone better to enjoy your life with. Yesterday was a real eye-opener for me. After listening to my W go on and on about how she doesn't "love me like that" and she doesn't want to be married, I had an epiphany; why the hell am I wasting so much energy trying to convince this woman to love me and that our wonderful family is worth saving?? I mean what the hell!! If she can't see that for herself, than why should I care? It is absolutely her loss, not mine. Same goes for you. You are obviously a very intelligent woman with much to offer, so if your H can't appreciate that, than it's his loss. Remember, you deserve to be loved, not laughed at or treated like crap. Keep your head up! Try not to think too much about the future and past, just focus on today. I'm finding that if I just do that, then I realize that the woman who stands before me isn't even worth loving at the moment. It just makes life easier for me. Force yourself to have a good day, and write back later. I will be praying for you.

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#1676664 - 12/18/08 02:20 PM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: WaitingPatiently]
spellfire Offline
Member

Registered: 12/01/08
Posts: 812
Loc: USA
Nas,

His loss indeed. You clearly have so much to offer, reading your post I actually feel jealous that my W doesn't feel about me the way you feel about your WAS.

Give it time, and hold your head high. You deserve better than this, and I believe you will find it.
_________________________
Spellfire aka Mike

"Women do not like controlling men. They respect and are attracted to men who control themselves. They ultimately are repelled by men who allow themselves to be controlled." -S&A

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#1676678 - 12/18/08 02:32 PM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: justwaitn]
Nasmat Offline
Member

Registered: 12/01/08
Posts: 250
Loc: Georgia
Hey, hunny! {{{{justwaitn}}}} Thanks so much for stopping by and offering hope and support. It means so, so much to me!

And thank you so very much for the compliment on my writing. I'm so glad that you enjoy it! \:\) Most of the time, I am horrified by all of my typos. I always write my posts so quickly and like an idiot I never go back and edit them before posting. Makes me cringe sometimes. \:\)

Quote:
You will suddenly realize that its been an hour since you last thought of H. and then two hours...you get the picture. And it sounds like you are almost there.


I am getting there slowly but surely. I do have those moments when I realize I haven't thought of him in thirty minutes - sometimes an hour or two.

Quote:
You seem to have an active mind, like myself, one that doesn't ever seem to shut off. An anti-anxiety med would help slow down your thinking and help you sleep or work.


I actually haven't thought of an anti-anxiety med at all. I have Graves Disease, so I have to be careful with those types of meds, but it might be worth looking into. I think the reason I've avoided looking itno it is because I'm afraid of becoming a zombie-slug or of repressing my emotions so that I have to deal with them again after several months.

That being said, it's really not a bad idea......

Thanks so much for the infusion of hope! In trying to face brutal reality and accept it, I think I've really let alot of my hope and PMA go.

Thanks again and God bless,
~Nas
_________________________
"Don't dream it. Be it."

First
Second

Me: 26
WAH: 27
T/M: 11/4

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#1676738 - 12/18/08 03:40 PM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: Nasmat]
WaitingPatiently Offline
Member

Registered: 12/01/08
Posts: 287
Loc: North East
Re-gift!!!! Enough said. No, seriously, giving gifts may look like persuing. Definitely would not give him a gift. My W and I discussed that, and originally she said she didn't want to exchange gifts, then she said she did, then she said nevermind. I'm so damn sick of it I've now made up my mind that I won't get her a gift no matter what she decides. Just my thoughts...

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#1676883 - 12/18/08 07:18 PM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: WaitingPatiently]
pearlharbr Offline
Member

Registered: 12/08/08
Posts: 2204
Hey Nas

Thanks for the hugs. I really need them right now. You're right, I need to get in a better head space before I do anything.

As usual, you write so beautifully all of the grief and anguish running through my veins right now. We were supposed to be going to Scotland on the 26th for New Year's. Now I need to find something to do on my own.

I loved your fear of fire metaphor. That's exactly how I feel too, he did the one thing he knew I find unacceptable--cheating--to end our years together. He didn't have the balls to just tell me he was unhappy and that we had serious problems that needed to be addressed.

Also on target, the person who I'm sharing a house with now is not the man I fell in love with. He's not the person I want to spend my life with. Maybe if I can remember that when I'm in the depths of despair that will help pull me out.

Your H is definitely throwing away the best thing in his life--you! Keep up the thought-stopping (I'll have to try that) and the PMA. I know you can make it through this.

And don't send gifts/cards to his family. I think it makes it awkward and isn't in your best interest.
_________________________
If you love somebody, set them free.
http://tinyurl.com/2empx2g

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#1676993 - 12/18/08 11:41 PM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: pearlharbr]
Nasmat Offline
Member

Registered: 12/01/08
Posts: 250
Loc: Georgia
Journal:

I cannot F***ING believe that my husband sent me the email below. He has been replaced by an alien. He must have a heart of ice.

He sent this sometime in the afternoon but I just saw it now.

What in the Hell happened to the person I knew and loved?

"Good afternoon _____ [my full name],

Just wanted to give you a heads up in regards to some bills that need to be paid in order not disrupt service. The Protect America bill is due (29.95) and the insurance bill is due on or before the 25th (114.95). Just want to make sure that you have no problems with service disruption. Okay, take care and when your able to (January) we can hook up and go over everything to sort out everything once more concerning the bills, property, and civil processes. Thanks for your time _____ [my full name].

_____"


Seriously, I want to write him and tell him that he is a f***ing monster. I want to drag him through the f***ing dirt. I want to hire a private investigator and document his infidelity so I can take every red cent he has.

I don't know how to respond to that email. Honest to God, my H is dead. The man I knew is DEAD. I want to tell his b**** of a girlfriend that he is a f***ing monster and not to believe his bulls***.

I have to calm down. I just got home froma great party at work, I'm tipsy, and I was in good spirits.

He just had to S*** on that. Like always, actually. He always s***s on my good time.

If I respond with the same detached tone, I set the stage for a battle. If I respond with niceness, I am pursuing.

Help me, ya'll, because I am so LOST.

~Nas, spitting mad
_________________________
"Don't dream it. Be it."

First
Second

Me: 26
WAH: 27
T/M: 11/4

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#1677025 - 12/19/08 12:26 AM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: Nasmat]
pearlharbr Offline
Member

Registered: 12/08/08
Posts: 2204
Oh Nas,

I wish I could offer good advice, but I'm so messed up myself right now. I just wanted to let you know I'm thinking about you. All I can say is that I sympathize with having an alien replace your loved one. Rat bast*rds!

I think you should *not* respond at all tonight. Get some sleep and see if things are clearer tomorrow. I know the rage can cloud judgment.

Pearlharbr, who is looking for jobs in another state


Edited by pearlharbr (12/19/08 12:27 AM)
_________________________
If you love somebody, set them free.
http://tinyurl.com/2empx2g

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#1677029 - 12/19/08 12:35 AM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: pearlharbr]
spellfire Offline
Member

Registered: 12/01/08
Posts: 812
Loc: USA
Sounds like he wants to keep a legal record of finances in case of future disputes (using your full name etc). Do what you need to protect yourself would be my advice.

In terms of how you feel, don't forget who you are. He doesn't deserve someone like you, and he is too stupid to realize what he had.

Work on detaching Nas, you can do this.
_________________________
Spellfire aka Mike

"Women do not like controlling men. They respect and are attracted to men who control themselves. They ultimately are repelled by men who allow themselves to be controlled." -S&A

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#1677125 - 12/19/08 07:56 AM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: spellfire]
Nasmat Offline
Member

Registered: 12/01/08
Posts: 250
Loc: Georgia
Journal:

Another night of nightmares. Another night waking up at 3:00 and 5:00. I'm starting to think there's some significance to those times.

I can't remember the first set of nightmares now, but I remember the second set - they were like montages that never found resolution, so much like my life right now.

I dreamt that OW's sister died and that somehow I found out about it. I decided to attend the wake, which strangely enough was being held at that little b****'s house. I was the first person to arrive, and I introduced myself calmly, classily. She was so plain and pathetic. She actually looked like a 21 year old, like someone who still hadn't completely left behind high school. Nothing special at all.

It was my plan to simply observe, to be there when my H showed up to terrify him. But in the dream, I simply couldn't do it. I asked her how she liked f***ing my sloppy seconds. She had this moment where shock and horror flashed across her face, but then she smiled and said she loved it. I grabbed her by the throat and began slapping her, and then my H walked in. The most frustrating thing about the dream was no matter what I did - what I said, how hard I was slapping her, what I said to my H - I could not affect them. I could not hurt them.

Then the scene changed. I found myself in front of my H's place. I was visiting him for some reason, and when I walked in, I remember being disgusted by the banality of the place. In my dream, I was trying to DB, but I was so sickened by his stupid furniture and his stupid little house that I just lost my cool. I started overturning furniture, breaking things. I started slapping him as hard as I could, but somehow it was never hard enough. I was never able to actually hurt him.

And there were other, similar vignettes. Riding in his truck and slapping him. Entering her restaurant and slapping her. And it never made a difference. It was always like I was hitting air, like I could never get contact, like I could not be satisfied.

I am sick of his ghost. I am sick of him sucking the marrow from my celebrations, from my sleep.

I'm late to work today. I'm still not sober enough to go in, so I'm trying to wake up enough to drag myself to the shower and into my car. Thankfully, my boss was there last night and was just as drunk as everyone else. Thankfully, he still being really cool, but I know that very soon I'll begin to find myself on thin ice, so I have to pick myself up and begin to truly tackle my job, my life.

I'm still wallowing in many ways, and it makes me so angry at myself and at circumstances.

I'm still not sure how to respond to his email. I just cannot believe that he is trying to play this game with me. Why push me to a fight?

Maybe I should change the medium and text him back.

Or maybe I should just match the tone of the email.

Or perhaps I should call so that there is no paper trail.

I don't know what to do. What I want to do is write the following:

"Good morning, Mr. Formality (haha),

Thank you for the head's up about the insurance. I will call and take care of the payment. As for Protect America, that bill has already been paid, as has the mortgage and all other due bills. I appreciate your concern, and I appreciate your willingness to work around my busy schedule. We will talk in the future.

Sincerely,
Ms. Not-Your-Enemy"

Ah, if only.

~Nas
_________________________
"Don't dream it. Be it."

First
Second

Me: 26
WAH: 27
T/M: 11/4

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#1677131 - 12/19/08 08:01 AM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: Nasmat]
justwaitn Offline
Member

Registered: 12/05/08
Posts: 32
He is a B******. Wow...I can't believe the lack of personality in that email. Don't respond. He definately has an alterior motive. Wish I could tell you what it is though. The only thing I can think is that he is trying to detach to make it easier on him. It is such a far cry from some of his previous emails and texts to you.

Stay strong. Use your great writing skills to vent your anger and frustration at the situation. Do you listen to music much? (i am lost without my ipod)...if you do, put on some angry music and go for a walk. I used to do this. (I would walk hard, swing a stick and feel so much better after about 30 minutes.)

I will check on you later and am sending you calming vibes.

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#1677158 - 12/19/08 09:11 AM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: Nasmat]
nw626 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/06/08
Posts: 498
Nas
This is only the first 'formal' email you got from him.
Trust me, there will be more to come.
I think it is fine to response to his email with matching tone, short and civil. By responding with this tone is probably a 180 for you.
what I said to my H - I could not affect them. I could not hurt them.
Oddly enough, this is true in real life also. You just can NOT change/fix him.
I have to pick myself up and begin to truly tackle my job, my life.
Then do it...do it to your best...leave nothing on the table. I know you can.
You need to take care of Nas first...this is most important part now.
Once you find the strength within yourself, better days will come.

Keep posting/venting here.

NW626
_________________________
Me:33 STBXW:38 S:3
It's not whether you win or lose, it's how you fight the fight....!!

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#1677238 - 12/19/08 11:03 AM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: nw626]
Nasmat Offline
Member

Registered: 12/01/08
Posts: 250
Loc: Georgia
I just want to say thank you so, so much to everyone who has been replying. Your support literally keeps me from sinking into dark, dark places.

Pearlharbr: Thank you so much for all of your support. *hugs* I'm still not sure if I'm going to send Christmas cards to his family. I want to as I think it is friendly and kind and appropriate, but I also don't want to pursue or make anyone uncomfortable. The jury is still out on that one.

Crafidi: Thank you so much for stopping by and offering your support. It means so much to me. \:\) I really appreciate your prayers, and I am keeping you in mine as well. It is true that we deserve so much better than what we are giving, and I have to remind myself that I am the better person for taking the high road, for not running from difficult situations and emotions. You hang in there as well. Your W certainly does not deserve your love right now, and you are a much better person for not deserting her - for practicing tough love. I try to remind myself that following the lessons of Christ means that I must love my enemy, that I must not judge, that I must endure hardship and pain because it is the right thing to do rather than the easy thing.

Spellfire: Thank you so very, very much for your kind words. I am touched by your support and by your faith in me. I am working on detaching little by little - need to ramp up those efforts. Everytime I think i've detached a bit more, something happens to enrage me and pull me back in. I'd be giving him way too much credit if I thought it was on purpose, but it still sucks nonetheless.

Justwaitn: Yep, he is totally being a b******. It is taking every ounce of my energy to not call him on his BS. But then I remind myself that someone who is willing to be so heartless to protect himself is not worth my anger. I could come up with a hundred reasons for that note - he's just trying to cover his bases; he's scared; he thinks I've pulled back and is gearing up for a fight; he's being influenced by outside parties; he's trying to get a rise out of me. Who knows. And I suppose, in the end, it doesn't even matter. Thank you so much for the compliment on my writing. It really makes my day brighter. And yes, I love music - actually blasted some good angry music during my drive into work and felt much better. \:\) Thanks for the soothing vibes!

NW626: Thank you so much, NW626, for your continued support and advice. I cannot express how much your encouragement helps. I suppose my Achilles' heel has always been procrastination and obsessive thinking, so I am resolving to do better at tackling my job. I'm the kind of person that has to focus to the exclusion of everything else - I can throw myself into my work, but if I feel that the rest of my life is "untidy", I have a hard time truly applying myself. That's a big one for me to work on.

As a sidenote, I have received another "formal" email from him. After the bomb was dropped on our anniversary, we went about a day without contact. Then he sent me this:

"Hello _____ [my full name - and by full name, I mean proper name instead of nickname],

I'm writing in order to make sure the bill situation is getting worked out. When I left you told me you wanted the car, house, and everything. That's fine. I just want you to know that I'm not going to pay any bills associated with the house and or vehicle due to having to find a place to rent and can't afford it. If you want to give me the car then I can pay that along with insurance, but I honestly can't afford the house payment. Also everything such as cable, electric, water/utilities needs to get paid as well. I'm not going to be able to pay for that as well. I'm going to take the home security system unless you want it, but that also comes with a thirty dollar monthly payment as well. If you decided to keep the house or sell and not let it foreclose than we need to get together in order to change everything in your name so you get credit for it. If not I'll have to let it bankrupt. Andrea, for the record I never had any sexual relations with anyone, I was only talking. I'm going to come over Tuesday afternoon with one of my coworkers to retrieve my belongings. I'll make sure to only grab my gear. Also can you leave out my family photos as well. I won't keep you any longer.

_____"


I ended up deflecting the tension by sending this:

"Good afternoon, _____.

Thank you for your email. I truly hope that this note finds you well.

As far as your request for my response is concerned, I respectfully request a little more time in responding. The decisions to be made in this situation will have long-standing consequences, therefore I require more time in responding as to the exact nature of my position in regards to the items I will take. I would appreciate it greatly if you would give me until 10:00 AM on Tuesday, November 25th to respond to you thoroughly as to how to proceed. I do appreciate greatly that you promised that I could have whatever I wanted in any way that I wanted, and that the terms of our settling of affairs would be my decision. I thank you for that, and it is a mark of your character.

As I have requested that you wait until Tuesday morning for my full answer, I think it best to schedule the removal of your possessions for Wednesday or Thursday. Please let me know the time that you will arrive to remove your things. If you require anything from the house immediately, I can have a neutral party meet you to deliver those items. I will of course leave your family photos out for you, and I will do my best to separate our goods ahead of time so as to save you time in rifling through each room.

When you left, I said that one day I hoped we could come together as friends, and I meant it. We have had a long journey together, and although we are both opening a new chapter in our lives, I hope that we can each look back at our season together with fondness, warmth, and appreciation for the time we had. I know that I will. I truly wish you the best on your continuing journey, and I wish you happiness and fulfillment in all you do.

Sincerely,
_____"


He didn't respond to my response. I texted him late night and told him that even though I knew that things were as they were, I couldn't sleep and wanted him to know that I was there if he needed to talk.

He responded with a thank you, I-want-to-remain-close-as-well text the next day, and from there, things were friendly again.

So yeah, I don't know what to make of any of this. It's funny to go back and read his old email as the stuff about picking up his things, etc never happened.

Ah well, only time will tell....

~Nas, more annoyed than enraged (thankfully)





Edited by Nasmat (12/19/08 11:04 AM)
_________________________
"Don't dream it. Be it."

First
Second

Me: 26
WAH: 27
T/M: 11/4

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#1677247 - 12/19/08 11:12 AM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: Nasmat]
Nasmat Offline
Member

Registered: 12/01/08
Posts: 250
Loc: Georgia
Ok, so here are some possible responses to his email. What do you all think?

His email:
"Good afternoon _____,

Just wanted to give you a heads up in regards to some bills that need to be paid in order not disrupt service. The Protect America bill is due (29.95) and the insurance bill is due on or before the 25th (114.95). Just want to make sure that you have no problems with service disruption. Okay, take care and when your able to (January) we can hook up and go over everything to sort out everything once more concerning the bills, property, and civil processes. Thanks for your time _____ [my full name].

_____"


Option 1:
Good morning, _____.
I have paid the Protect America bill and will pay the insurance bill today. All other bills should be up-to-date.

Thanks,
______

Option Two:
Good morning, Mr. Formality (haha),

Thank you for the head's up about the insurance. I will call and take care of the payment. As for Protect America, that bill has already been paid, and all other bills are current. I appreciate your concern.

Thanks,
Ms. Not-Your-Enemy

Option Three:
Text message:
Thanks for the note. I'll take care of the insurance, and PA is paid.

Option Four:
Call him so there is no paper trail.

Option Five:
No response.

Or maybe there's even a better response. Ideas?
_________________________
"Don't dream it. Be it."

First
Second

Me: 26
WAH: 27
T/M: 11/4

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#1677248 - 12/19/08 11:14 AM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: Nasmat]
WaitingPatiently Offline
Member

Registered: 12/01/08
Posts: 287
Loc: North East
I would definitely call him so there's no paper trail. Just be sure to be composed and cordial, but not overly-friendly or angry when you speak. He's up to something, so be very weary. Have you seen an attorney? At least just for advice?

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#1677264 - 12/19/08 11:26 AM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: WaitingPatiently]
Nasmat Offline
Member

Registered: 12/01/08
Posts: 250
Loc: Georgia
Hey, Crafidi! \:\) Thanks for popping in.

Yes, I have consulted an attorney although he doesn't know that. It was the attorney who warned me that he could try to seek alimony from me because my income is twice as large as his - this is one reason why I have to be careful to not escalate matters myself. He also warned me that by my H writing an email saying he never had sexual relations, he is trying to protect himself legally (duh). He told me that if I were to contest on the grounds of infidelity that I would need to prove that it occurred or had an obvious change of occuring. Yeah.

He definitely is up to something although I have no clue what. He must be really stupid, though, because he is the unfaithful one, and I am the person with the financial backing (my own, my parents) and the brains to withstand a legal battle. I could literally make his life a living Hell, and he knows it. Furthermore, I am fully aware of the illegal activities and cover-ups that he has been involved in, and if I wanted to, I could make a few calls and he and his little buddies would be on the way to federal prison.

What a fool.

You know, it just occured to me that I'd bet my life that he is on pins-and-needles trying to figure me out. I'm being silent and distant, and I'm sure he's afraid that I am going to rake him through the coals. I'd bet good money that he is waiting for the other shoe to drop, waiting for me to explode and go on a rampage.

Silly fool, tricks are for kids.

It also occured to me this morning that I am fairly sure that this A has been going on for much longer than he admitted. No one just walks away from 11 years of life - dog, house, wife - after a month of "talking" to someone. He's been talking about that stupid restaurant since this summer - if memory serves, I believe he found it this summer.

What a waste of air he is....

~Nas
_________________________
"Don't dream it. Be it."

First
Second

Me: 26
WAH: 27
T/M: 11/4

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#1677272 - 12/19/08 11:35 AM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: WaitingPatiently]
justwaitn Offline
Member

Registered: 12/05/08
Posts: 32
I think a quick call is in order. A "thanks for the heads up" and a "have a good weekend". Then hang-up and throw a pillow. I wonder who is giving him guidance on all of this...

Your dreams are so similar to what I have had over the past year. (some were dreams while I was sleeping, some were daydreams...;)) This is where the anti-anxiety meds really helped me. I have always had problems sleeping, I would dwell on everything. (my mom said I stopped sleeping at 3 and my daughter is the same way).

I am, unfortunately, not quite wise enough to offer much, but just maybe you can use all of this to write an amazing novel that will sell millions and be made into a movie. \:\)

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#1677368 - 12/19/08 01:55 PM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: justwaitn]
Nasmat Offline
Member

Registered: 12/01/08
Posts: 250
Loc: Georgia
Journal:

Well, my friggin' H solved my dilemma for me. He called me. And I wouldn't have picked up except for the fact that he called from a new number and as my cell is my work phone, I have to take calls.

So he seemed to sound like his "normal" self - probably no one was around him at the time. He asked if I'd gotten his email. I said no, I hadn't had time to check email yet. He said that he just wanted to make sure that I had insurance and that it was due on the 25th. I asked him if the bill was at the house and he said probably, but if not that he could email me the info to pay online. I told him that was cool, that I would likely pay it online. He mentioned the Protect America bill, and I mentioned that I paid it last week when I paid the mortgage.

Then, he asked me "if I still wanted to get together in January to talk about bills and things." I said sure, whatever works, just let me know. He then said that we could probably do it sometime in the first week of January if that worked for me. I said yeah, I'll have to check. He said he was sorry to keep bringing this stuff up but he just wanted to make sure the bills got taken care of and into my name (blah friggin' blah).

He asked how I've been. I said good, keeping busy. He asked if anything interesting was going on at work, and I said that things were busy but normal. I mentioned that I had a work party last night. He asked me how it went, and I said it was good, a really good time.

I asked how he was, and he said nothing new was going on, just the same old stuff. He said that he was waiting for a friend of his (a guy we went to high school with) to bring over a recliner he was giving him, and that he'd bought a sofa and loveseat from this guy's mom for a $100. I said that was cool.

He asked about Lola, our dog. i said she was doing well and that she'd gotten a bath yesterday. He laughed and said, "Poor girl, she must have hated that."

I asked him if the number he's called me from was a new work number, and he said yeah, he's had to get a new number. I asked it it replaced his blackberry number at work, and he said yeah, although I think he was feeding me BS. The exchange on the number is not for his area, so it's strange. Probably a new number so he can call his whore.

We had another race to get off the phone, but I won this round - I could feel him priming up to get off the phone, and I beat him to the chase. I told him to have a good weekend. He told me to do the same, said take care, and then as I was hanging up threw in there, "Call me if you need anything."

I said "ok" and hung up.

Duration: 2 minutes, 51 seconds.

I am SO sick of this f***ing BS. I am tired, dead on my feet and hollow-boned. This whole ordeal is so ridiculous, it just makes me want to change my name, move to another country and start a new life as someone else.

And I am sick and tired of him wearing me out every bloody time I have something to look forward to (plans tonight). It gets so old.

~Nas
_________________________
"Don't dream it. Be it."

First
Second

Me: 26
WAH: 27
T/M: 11/4

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#1677371 - 12/19/08 01:59 PM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: justwaitn]
Nasmat Offline
Member

Registered: 12/01/08
Posts: 250
Loc: Georgia
Quote:
but just maybe you can use all of this to write an amazing novel that will sell millions and be made into a movie


Oh, thank you SO much! You have no idea how much you just brightened my day. Really and truly, I am smiling like a little kid.

You know what's funny is that is actually my plan. I've had a novel in the works for awhile, and this ordeal really completes it in an ironically perfect way.

Thanks so much again, hunny. I know that everyone here will be in my acknowledgements if my novel ever does make it.

Love,
~Nas
_________________________
"Don't dream it. Be it."

First
Second

Me: 26
WAH: 27
T/M: 11/4

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#1677379 - 12/19/08 02:18 PM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: Nasmat]
Nasmat Offline
Member

Registered: 12/01/08
Posts: 250
Loc: Georgia
I keep thinking about this crap. \:\( You know, I can't help but notice a pattern in our interactions.

1. I avoid contact.

2. He tries to initiate contact about finances or other practical details - often in a rush.

3. I respond with friendly detachment.

4. He is friendly but nervous. He tries to settle into our friends vibe by apologizing and being the "nice guy."

5. I remain distant.

6. He becomes "all business". Tries to rush things along.

7. I remain friendly but distant.

8. He backs down and becomes "Mr. Nice Guy" again.

I feel like I'm in a cheeseless tunnel right now. I seriously have no clue how to break this flipping cycle. If I try to be a "friend", this is what I get.

1. I act as a friend.

2. He responds in a friendly way but reiterates his position.

3. I validate.

4. He gets comfortable, and then does a 180, bringing up those practical details again. He reiterates his desire to D.

This is seriously a no-win situation for me. About the only thing I haven't tried is outright anger, rage, and vindictiveness. I've been business-like and detached. I've been vulnerable and emotional. I've been sympathetic and a friend. I've been friendly but detached.

Seriously, perhaps this is all just doomed.

I know, I need to give it time. Just venting, I suppose.

~Nas
_________________________
"Don't dream it. Be it."

First
Second

Me: 26
WAH: 27
T/M: 11/4

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#1677386 - 12/19/08 02:27 PM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: Nasmat]
pearlharbr Offline
Member

Registered: 12/08/08
Posts: 2204
I'm having the same thoughts Nas. When is it ok to try letting the rage spew forth as it's the only thing left to try?

I can't wait to read your novel when it's finished!
_________________________
If you love somebody, set them free.
http://tinyurl.com/2empx2g

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#1677388 - 12/19/08 02:36 PM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: Nasmat]
whateverittakes Offline
Member

Registered: 11/28/08
Posts: 255
Nasmat,

I'm sorry you're suffering so much. Your sadness, rage and despair are all part of this. It will end. I know it doesn't feel that way but it is ending for me and the relief is incredible. Letting go the rope is so freeing and the time will come for you too.

Regarding Sunday,you are a strong woman with a healthy sense of pride, if you feel confident that you can handle it in a way that retains your self-respect, then be there. Otherwise, do whatever is best for you. In the big picture it won't make any difference. All that makes a difference right now is doing what is best for you.

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#1677410 - 12/19/08 03:08 PM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: pearlharbr]
Nasmat Offline
Member

Registered: 12/01/08
Posts: 250
Loc: Georgia
Quote:
I'm having the same thoughts Nas. When is it ok to try letting the rage spew forth as it's the only thing left to try?


Seriously, I wish I could answer that but I cannot. Perhaps that time never comes - not if you're taking the high road. I've been considering the cold, hard reality that even if we do get a D and are truly and completely done with eachother that I will still never have a chance to release my rage on him. I could, but it would gain me nothing. It would only diminish me.

That is perhaps the most frustrating part of all of this. I want to fall into hate soemtimes, but the truth is that if I do allow myself to hate then he still has bloody power over me.

Sickening, this mess.

Quote:
I can't wait to read your novel when it's finished!


Oh, thank you so much, hunny! *hugs* Hopefully I can really get back on that bandwagon soon.

Love,
~Nas
_________________________
"Don't dream it. Be it."

First
Second

Me: 26
WAH: 27
T/M: 11/4

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#1677418 - 12/19/08 03:13 PM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: whateverittakes]
Nasmat Offline
Member

Registered: 12/01/08
Posts: 250
Loc: Georgia
Hey, whateverittakes! Thanks so much for dropping in to offer support. It truly means so much to me.

It's so funny that you mention the freedom that accompanies dropping the rope. I'm now to the point where I want to drop the rope. I am dying for some relief.

If only there was an easier, quicker way to get there, eh? Ah well.....

Quote:
Regarding Sunday,you are a strong woman with a healthy sense of pride, if you feel confident that you can handle it in a way that retains your self-respect, then be there.


Thanks so much! Luckily, I have no plans to see him before January, and I'm not calling/emailing/texting him at all. He can come to me. Funny thing is, he always does come to me after a day or two under the guise of practicalities. The fool doesn't have enough balls to just call and be a decent human being....

I think the Sunday meeting you're refering to is what happened this past Sunday. Things actually turned out well. I planned on not being their, but fate intervened and I ran into him for 5 minutes as I was leaving. I was friendly but distant, and he was nervous. In the end I cam home after a great evening to find that he actually hadn't taken any of his stuff except one can of ammo.

*sigh*

I am exhausted.

~Nas
_________________________
"Don't dream it. Be it."

First
Second

Me: 26
WAH: 27
T/M: 11/4

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#1677427 - 12/19/08 03:23 PM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: Nasmat]
Br44 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/01/08
Posts: 633
Nas -

You don't have to answer the phone, even if it is a strange number. Let it go to voicemail and return the call later. If they don't leave a voicemail then it wasn't that important. And if it is your H and he doesn't leave a voicemail, then you know he is just trying to keep you dragging on that rope of his.

I just want you to keep things in perspective... this is a long journey... as much as you want things to turn overnight, it just doesn't normally happen that way.

mc

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#1677490 - 12/19/08 04:20 PM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: Br44]
Nasmat Offline
Member

Registered: 12/01/08
Posts: 250
Loc: Georgia
Hey, MC! Thanks for popping in and offering your wisdom and much-needed perspective.

As far as the answering the phone thing goes, unfortunately I did have to answer at that time. The number was new, and I really did have to pick up as I was waiting for a call from a new dealer in Savannah that needed to have systems integrated. Long story short, if I let all of the calls that I got from unassigned numbers go to voicemail, i would be screwed. My boss knows when I'm on conference calls or in meetings, and since our CEO just jumped down his throat about how it is unacceptable that any call be left to go to voicemail for any reason (CEO is bats*** insane), I really can't chance it.

Good news is, I saved the new number, so unless he changes his number again, I'm golden.

I know it's a long journey, and I'm trudging onward. Every day it sinks in a little more. A couple of weeks ago, I would have told you that things had a chance of turning around before Christmas (ha!). I am now realizing that I am looking at months and months and possibly years. Whether I'm going to still care after months and months is another issues entirely, but I do understand.

Thanks again, MC! Keep 'em comin'! ;\)

~Nas
_________________________
"Don't dream it. Be it."

First
Second

Me: 26
WAH: 27
T/M: 11/4

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#1677500 - 12/19/08 04:27 PM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: Nasmat]
Br44 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/01/08
Posts: 633
Hey ... I understand on the phone thing.. Just wanted you to really think about if you HAD to answer... and if you did, then I'll accept that.

At the beginning of my sitch (end of June)... I thought everything would be fine by our Disney trip at the beginning of Sept... ended up cancelling that... then there was hope for our anniversary... nothing, then hope for W's b-day... nothing, hope (not really)for Thanksgiving... nothing, now NO hope for Christmas... and we'll see what happens.

This isn't easy Nas, and if it was - everyone would be doing it!

mc

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#1677506 - 12/19/08 04:38 PM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: Br44]
Nasmat Offline
Member

Registered: 12/01/08
Posts: 250
Loc: Georgia
Hey, everyone! I have a question. Does anyone know much about Retrovaille? I checked out the website, but it seemed a bit vague.

A friend at work mentioned Retrovaille, and I've seen it mentioned around here as well. She said that she had a friend who attended on court orders (judge required she and her H to attend before proceeding with filing). Apparently, neither of them really wanted to keep the marriage, but supposedly afterwards, they decided to begin working on this.

My coworker recommended that when January rolls around and H and I have our "talk" that I offer him an option: If he wants to split the cost and file together, we have to attend Retrovaille first to help us work through the moral implications. Otherwise, he'll have to file by himself.

What do ya'll think? Obviously, that's long way off, but I just wanted to gather some facts and bounce the idea off of ya'll.

~Nas
_________________________
"Don't dream it. Be it."

First
Second

Me: 26
WAH: 27
T/M: 11/4

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#1677577 - 12/19/08 06:16 PM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: Nasmat]
MsMelancoly Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/08
Posts: 1106
Hi Nas, I just wanted to stop by & offer support. Given your past with your H, this must be extremely difficult for you (I can only imagine).

I'm sure with the different techniques you are using your H doesn't know what the hell to expect or think.

This is seriously a no-win situation for me. About the only thing I haven't tried is outright anger, rage, and vindictiveness.

Totally, know what you are talking about here & have then same frustration & the same thoughts at times.

Stay strong & try to keep a positive PMA (easier said than done I know).
_________________________
Me39, XH45
Kids 3 dogs, 2 cats
Divorced 6/4/09
Tricky thing is not how you live, but how you live with yourself. (POTC)

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#1677599 - 12/19/08 07:14 PM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: MsMelancoly]
blindsided1 Offline
Member

Registered: 11/06/07
Posts: 2062
Loc: So. Calif
Nas, I know you have been around my thread. I read your post the other day. It's funny reading through your thread to see the things I went through, early on, reiterated in your situation. My H would send me "formal" texts...I called BS on him, he never did it again. I have been here for over a year. I am still in a f'd up sitch. It has taken me a long, long time to even get to a place where I feel "strong" again. The only advice I can give you is to read other threads, listen to the seasoned vets who are on here, stay as busy as possible and give you H just as much space, if not more, than he is giving you. When you give him space and back off...he reaches out to you, even though it is under the guise of something business like or unimportant. That is him reaching out. Just be aware of this. Do not put a time frame on your sitch...it never pans out that way. Just get busy and take care of you. The distancing from your H is so that YOU can have a breather. It took me months and months to understand this. I thought if I distanced myself from him, he would let me....wrong. He became proactive and it gave me time to heal. I can almost bet that the reason he is moving so fast with everything is because he IS confused and doesn't want to give himself a chance to change his mind. Just breath and take care of you. I'll check on you periodically. If you need me, just holler.
_________________________
M 5yrs
1st baby-girl born 6/18/08
Bomb: 10/13/07 OW - I was 6wks Prego
H Moved in w/OW: 11/2/07
D Final 07/10
OW had his baby 3/17/09-so her
Me, now - happier than I ever was with him

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#1677728 - 12/20/08 01:56 AM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: Nasmat]
pearlharbr Offline
Member

Registered: 12/08/08
Posts: 2204
Originally Posted By: Nasmat
Perhaps that time never comes - not if you're taking the high road. I've been considering the cold, hard reality that even if we do get a D and are truly and completely done with eachother that I will still never have a chance to release my rage on him. I could, but it would gain me nothing. It would only diminish me.

That is perhaps the most frustrating part of all of this. I want to fall into hate soemtimes, but the truth is that if I do allow myself to hate then he still has bloody power over me.


I really wish I would have read this before tonight's events transpired. Long story short I let my emotions get the better of me and told BF off. It felt good. And I don't care if that pushes him away, I've made up my mind that he is no longer the person I loved and I want nothing to do with him.

So I will keep up with you and cheerlead because I think you are a better person than me and you can do this.
_________________________
If you love somebody, set them free.
http://tinyurl.com/2empx2g

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#1677902 - 12/20/08 01:56 PM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: MsMelancoly]
Nasmat Offline
Member

Registered: 12/01/08
Posts: 250
Loc: Georgia
Hi, Ms. Melancholy! Thank you so very much for stopping by and offering your support. It helps tremendously, and I appreciate it more than I can say.

I think you're right that my H has no idea what to expect out of me at this point. We're both pretty unstable in our actions right now. I think my biggest goal is to truly work on being patient and following through with my task: loving detachment.

Thank you so very much again. I am feeling stronger every day, but I know this is a test of stamina as mcuh as anything else. We all fall of the horse and climb back on many times. I think that is the strength of this group and this place.

Thank you,
~Nas
_________________________
"Don't dream it. Be it."

First
Second

Me: 26
WAH: 27
T/M: 11/4

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#1677928 - 12/20/08 03:20 PM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: blindsided1]
Nasmat Offline
Member

Registered: 12/01/08
Posts: 250
Loc: Georgia
Hi, blindsided1! Thank you so much for stopping by and offering support. I have read through your sitch, and although I don't have much wisdom to offer, I definitely have drawn strength from your PMA. \:\)

Quote:
The only advice I can give you is to read other threads, listen to the seasoned vets who are on here, stay as busy as possible and give you H just as much space, if not more, than he is giving you. When you give him space and back off...he reaches out to you, even though it is under the guise of something business like or unimportant. That is him reaching out. Just be aware of this.


Thank you so much for your advice. I know giving him more space than he is giving me is a challenge, but it's getting a little easier with each day. And thanks for the reminder that he is reaching out even if it's only for "business". As easy as it was to look at the "bright side" early on, it is now becoming increasingly easier to be pessimistic. It helps to be reminded that the middle path is the one to brave, and I suppose that middle path comes with letting the rope go a bit more.

Quote:
The distancing from your H is so that YOU can have a breather. It took me months and months to understand this. I thought if I distanced myself from him, he would let me....wrong. He became proactive and it gave me time to heal.


Thank you so much for that. It's funny how I know that cerebrally but am not actually embracing it as I should. I guess I'm a "head before hands" kinda gal, so I need to focus on actually using this time. It is a gift in disguise even if it seems like a curse.

Quote:
I can almost bet that the reason he is moving so fast with everything is because he IS confused and doesn't want to give himself a chance to change his mind.


I really want to believe that. Even my coach tells me that, and I used to believe it, but the jaded part of myself that is trying to protect me from more disappointment keeps winning out. I don't want to wake up and find I was even more naive than I thought.

Thank you so much again. Take care, and God bless,
~Nas
_________________________
"Don't dream it. Be it."

First
Second

Me: 26
WAH: 27
T/M: 11/4

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#1677932 - 12/20/08 03:28 PM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: pearlharbr]
Nasmat Offline
Member

Registered: 12/01/08
Posts: 250
Loc: Georgia
{{{{{{Pearl}}}}}}

Hunny, I've know I've said this to you several times, but I think it merits saying again. Please do not feel bad about what you did. It took guts for you to stand up for yourself, and you did earn respect in doing so. I am proud of you for it.

Every sitch is different. In my sitch, if I lose my cool then I am doing the wrong thing. But that's my sitch. I've been hot tempered. I have been viscious and cruel. I have been coldhearted. I have said many horrible things. For me to go after my H and attack him and the OW would just be me going down a cheeseless tunnel. Also, don't lose the distinction between standing up for yourself and being hateful. What I've wanted to do have been hateful, petty acts - for example going down to the OW's restaurant and asking her if she liked f***ing my sloppy seconds. I want to do it, but to do it would make me childish and would elevate her importance.

I could do lots and lots of hurtful, vengeful things - reporting my H to the feds for things I know he got drawn into on accident because his coworkers are dirty. I could hack his bank account and take everything he has. I could vandalize his place. I could terrorize his family.

But I'm not going to do those things.

In any case, I am not any stronger than you. You are a very strong person - we just have slightly different journies.

*hugs*

We are with you, Pearl. Stay strong and focus on yourself. you deserve it.

~Nas
_________________________
"Don't dream it. Be it."

First
Second

Me: 26
WAH: 27
T/M: 11/4

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#1677937 - 12/20/08 03:39 PM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: Nasmat]
SingleDad Offline
Member

Registered: 08/11/08
Posts: 365
Loc: Western New York
Nasmat - sometimes I wonder if there are times to blow your stack. If you just sit back and let your spouse take everything without a thought - they'll walk all over you.

I had a fit when I learned from my D3 that my W's friend sleeps over. Told W what happened to your morals? What do yout think you are teaching our daughter ?

Even though my W is angry at me now... I think she may gain some respect that I want what is best for our daughter.

If I didn't say anything, would that mean I don't care anymore?

My W knows I love her, knows I think she is making a terrible mistake. How could I live with myself if I just sat back and didn't say anything ?
_________________________
Me:40 / W:33 / D:3
T:7.5/M:4
D Day: 1/24/08
Legal Separated: 6/12/08
BF who sleeps over: confirmed 11/10/08
Suspect BF pre-dates D Day

http://tinyurl.com/Original-thread
http://tinyurl.com/Second-thread
http://tinyurl.com/Third-thread


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#1678242 - 12/21/08 08:11 AM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: SingleDad]
Nasmat Offline
Member

Registered: 12/01/08
Posts: 250
Loc: Georgia
Thanks for stopping in and offering support, SingleDad! I really appreciate it. \:\)

I also wonder about whether letting out the full scope of my anger towards him is ever going to be appropriate.

Perhaps there is. Unfortunately, I do not have the wisdom to know the answer to that question. If there is a time for me, I don't believe it is now.

Perhaps I would benefit from the cathartic experience of raging at him, but in the end, there's nothing I can say that he doesn't already know - he's betrayed me; he's forgotten his morals; he's hurt me; he's been selfish in the extreme and in doing so has damaged my life along with his own.

He knows all of that. He's living with it, and he's likely bottling it up inside because I have a hard time seeing him talking to anyone about it.

I completely understand the desire to have to say something. In your case, you have a child together, so that changes the dynamic as well.

I think, though, that we have to trust that our spouses know that we care, that we do not want to walk this path. Believe me, if you've said it once, it's fair to assume your spouse knows. The problem is, they are choosing to walk a different path regardless of that knowledge.

Will they eventually come around? Honestly, we cannot know. In looking through this board, though, it appears that in every case that a couple has reconcilled, it is always because the wayward spouse comes to realize they want to stay on their own.

We can help along that realization through our actions, but in the end, we cannot reason with them to change. We cannot force them into it. We cannot scare them enough or love them enough to make a difference.

And so I think we're all here to become stronger, more balanced people. We are further along the road than our spouses because we are not running. We are confronting our reality and finding a way to continue that is honorable and compassionate and strong. If in our journeys towards this better version of our own humanity we become more appealing to our spouses, it is an added benefit.

I know how hard it is to believe that, but it is a truth we all must struggle to embrace if we are to succeed.

SingleDad, sometimes I do feel like perhaps my decision to not unleash my anger is weakness, that perhaps I am allowing myself to be a doormat. But when those moments come I have to ask myself, in history, in my own life, in the teachings of every major religion, does anger ever reap lasting rewrads?

I believe the answer there is no.

Gandhi chose a path of non-violence, a path that focused on effecting change for his people by turning inwards, and he changed the fate of India. It is the compassion and unconditional love of Jesus that saved our souls. Buddha did not reach enlightenment through anger but through turning to himself.

The list goes on and on. And in smaller ways, if I look at my own life, it is not my indignation or fury that has won me any true prizes. It is always love, compassion, tolerance, patience, and endurance that bear the most fruit.

I've gone on and on. Perhaps I am just trying to justify my own actions, and one day I will change my mind. I guess we all must cross that bridge when we come to it.

God bless,
~Nas
_________________________
"Don't dream it. Be it."

First
Second

Me: 26
WAH: 27
T/M: 11/4

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#1678248 - 12/21/08 08:37 AM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: Nasmat]
Nasmat Offline
Member

Registered: 12/01/08
Posts: 250
Loc: Georgia
Journal:

It has been an interesting weekend thus far. I had a good time on Friday night - went out with some friends and got a chance to bellydance and introduce them to Middle Eastern cuisine and culture.

I did nothing on Saturday, and I am of two minds about that. In one way, I am happy. I had a lazy day of doing nothing at all, and I enjoyed it. I watched some movies and I basically just lounged around in my house without feeling uncomfortable. I haven't really been able to enjoy time at home alone lately - and I used to really love just being here by myself. I think I'm starting to adjust a bit. I ate with a normal appetite. I did not think of him the entire day - just a few times here and there.

On the flipside, I feel guilty because I did nothing. I didn't clean like I'd told myself I would. I didn't exercise. I didn't work on my writing.

Hell, I didn't even shower or brush my teeth (sorry, I know it's gross).

All in all, it was sort of a typical lazy Saturday in my old life. I didn't really accomplish anythign to move me towards my goals.

In fact, in general I haven't done much to move myself towards my goals. I feel exhausted by everything, and I am disappointed in myself. This laziness is a deeply ingrained pattern in my life, and it is one I know needs to be broken. Somehow, making myself get up and do things isn't going so well even though I know they must be done and only I can do them.

This was a problem in my M as well. I was too tired to vacuum, so my H did it. I was too tired to go to the grocery store, so my H did it. I needed my downtime, so my H stepped in to take care of things.

I know I need to break this cycle. Problem is, knowing and doing are two different skills.

Ah well. Today is another day. Hopefully when I report back later, I'll have crossed some tasks off of the list.

H and I have had some minimal email contact this weekend. He emailed me early Saturday morning with the info to pay the insurance online. I emailed him back briefly to ask for the login information. He responded briefly with instructions.

That's been it. I'm annoyed that I corresponded with him, but at least it was in regards to business that needed to be handled.

Now I've got to go and get ready for church. I'm going to services with my dad and then will have lunch with my parents. I'm not looking forward to their questions and demands, but I am trying to remind myself to be patient with them.

My H works and lives in the same general area where my parents live. I'm terrified that one day I'll run into him with OW. I've also noticed that I am developing a real loathing of young waitresses. No matter where I go out to eat, I see them and wonder if OW looks like any of them. I find myself looking on younger women with real contempt - especially if they are thinner than me. Everytime I pass a big grey truck, I'm looking to see if it is my H. It seems like everywhere I go, there is some place that is a reminder of our life.

I have to wonder if he experiences this same sort of haunting. Does he see my ghost in places, in songs, in TV, the way I see his? Does he think of me at all, and if so, what are those thoughts? Does his family speak of me? What do his friends and sisters say about all of this? How much do they know of the A? Is he falling deeper into the A, or are cracks beginning to form?

Does he have regrets? Does he ever feel lonely without me? Does he worry about me? How often does he think of our dog? Does he ever miss sleeping beside me? Does he dream of me the way he used to? Will he miss me on Christmas? Is he happy when he dreams of a future apart - and does he even dream of that future?

I'll never truly know the answers to those questions, and so I do let them know. But occassionally, they do creep in.

It is a grey day today, but hopefully I can generate enough sunniness on the inside to enjoy it nonetheless.

~Nas
_________________________
"Don't dream it. Be it."

First
Second

Me: 26
WAH: 27
T/M: 11/4

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#1678253 - 12/21/08 08:55 AM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: Nasmat]
Hope4us Offline
Member

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 1628
Loc: Ohio
Originally Posted By: Nasmat

My H works and lives in the same general area where my parents live. I'm terrified that one day I'll run into him with OW. I've also noticed that I am developing a real loathing of young waitresses. No matter where I go out to eat, I see them and wonder if OW looks like any of them. I find myself looking on younger women with real contempt - especially if they are thinner than me. Everytime I pass a big grey truck, I'm looking to see if it is my H. It seems like everywhere I go, there is some place that is a reminder of our life.

I have to wonder if he experiences this same sort of haunting. Does he see my ghost in places, in songs, in TV, the way I see his? Does he think of me at all, and if so, what are those thoughts? Does his family speak of me? What do his friends and sisters say about all of this? How much do they know of the A? Is he falling deeper into the A, or are cracks beginning to form?

Does he have regrets? Does he ever feel lonely without me? Does he worry about me? How often does he think of our dog? Does he ever miss sleeping beside me? Does he dream of me the way he used to? Will he miss me on Christmas? Is he happy when he dreams of a future apart - and does he even dream of that future?

I'll never truly know the answers to those questions, and so I do let them know. But occassionally, they do creep in.

It is a grey day today, but hopefully I can generate enough sunniness on the inside to enjoy it nonetheless.

~Nas


All very normal Nas. My W's OM moved 250 miles away before I confirmed her A, has a new GF that he's been seeing since this time last year (while stringing my W along and using her when he had a chance, mostly when she'd take off and drive to his town) and as best I can tell, hasn't had any contact with W for quite a while, but I still have those same thoughts go through my head.

Every time I see a truck like OM drives, I wonder if it's him, even though he lives 250 miles away. Every time I see a license plate from the state his truck is registered in, I have some angry moments. Everytime someone mentions Louisiana (where he's from and his wife and kids still live) I get very ANGRY. And I used to LOVE Louisiana. Visited there many times and always had a great time. But now I frickin hate the state. Every time my W mentions someone at her work that has the same job that OM did while he was here I have an adverse reaction and think "I'm sure he/she is a frickin a-hole too.

I'm sure it will get better with time. It has for me somewhat, but I can tell you it just takes time. I'm a lot further along in my sitch than you are and it does get better.

Enjoy the rest of your weekend.
_________________________
Hope4us

Me - 49, W 49
S22 & S18
Dday 9/4/07
W claims NC 4/7/08
8/29/09 - Divorce Busted. Lots to work through, but we're going to make it.

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#1678342 - 12/21/08 01:20 PM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: Hope4us]
marriedCrazy Offline
Member

Registered: 09/06/08
Posts: 2105
Nas..Retrovaille (sp?) doesn't like to take couples when there's an active third party in the marriage..

Keep that in mind if you suggest that to your H!

Hope your day has been better.

Tom
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#1678357 - 12/21/08 01:48 PM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: marriedCrazy]
Nasmat Offline
Member

Registered: 12/01/08
Posts: 250
Loc: Georgia
Guys, I don't know what to do. I cannot control my anger right now.

I don't think I've ever been this angry in my life. Right now, I am dangerously angry.

He left me a voicemail saying he wants to come by with one of his friends tomorrow to get the rest of his stuff. He was extremely formal - it was the alien that left the message.

He's called again since then. I'm still not taking the call because at this point I know if I speak with him I will completely lose all control.

I cannot believe this s***. I am SO close to telling him that if he doesn't stop acting this way towards me, he is going to regret it.

~Nas
_________________________
"Don't dream it. Be it."

First
Second

Me: 26
WAH: 27
T/M: 11/4

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#1678361 - 12/21/08 01:55 PM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: Nasmat]
Br44 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/01/08
Posts: 633
Nas -

I know exactly how you feel. You are doing right by not answering at this time.

I'm still angry, but I have it under some control now... it takes time.

I hate all this BS.

mc

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#1678364 - 12/21/08 02:06 PM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: Br44]
Nasmat Offline
Member

Registered: 12/01/08
Posts: 250
Loc: Georgia
Thanks, MC. I am totally with you on the hating BS part. I seriously just want to ask him WTF is so wrong with his brain that he keeps making this more difficult. Does he WANT to shoot himself in the foot?

And don't start me on WTF ever it is that if wrong with his heart that he feels the need to keep stabbing me in mine. I mean, after all we've been through, can't he find enough humanity to be cool about this. I am being cool about this for God's sake.

Dammit, i can't believe the nerve of him. Does he really think he can just call me a hundred times until he gets his way? I suppose so. Right now, his tiny, pathetic little world revolves around what he and his tiny, pathetic little d*** wants.

I almost want him to come tomorrow and get his s*** out of my house.

On the other hand, I don't want to give him what he wants. I'm two seconds away from changing all of my locks, although I know he has a f***ing garage door opener so I suppose it doesn't matter.

I can't decide if I want to call and tell him that I won't be available until January or if I want to just get a mutual friend to be here tomorrow and just avoid the whole thing myself. That would make him nice and uncomfortable.

Stupid prick. I cannot believe I married someone like this.

~Nas
_________________________
"Don't dream it. Be it."

First
Second

Me: 26
WAH: 27
T/M: 11/4

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#1678379 - 12/21/08 02:48 PM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: Nasmat]
pearlharbr Offline
Member

Registered: 12/08/08
Posts: 2204
Hey Nas

Blow the anger off somehow. Blast some music and dance and sing and scream. Beat up a pillow. Do something to let it out. Do not answer his calls right now.

I know you want to take the high road in all of this and that you can let the anger out without directing it toward him (not that he doesn't deserve it!).

When you feel calmer you can decide if you want to let him come over tomorrow or not, if you want to be there or not.
_________________________
If you love somebody, set them free.
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#1678381 - 12/21/08 02:55 PM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: pearlharbr]
marriedCrazy Offline
Member

Registered: 09/06/08
Posts: 2105
Quote:
I want to just get a mutual friend to be here tomorrow and just avoid the whole thing myself.



Pretty good idea if you allow him to come over and get his stuff
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#1678404 - 12/21/08 03:36 PM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: Nasmat]
WaitingPatiently Offline
Member

Registered: 12/01/08
Posts: 287
Loc: North East
Hi Nasmat,

How are you? You said some very true and wise things in some prior posts (I can't figure out how to do the quote in my reply). We can't force them or love them or convince them enough to change--you are very right about that. I just recently came to that same conclusion. They have to do this and figure it out on their own. And yes, they do know we love them, but that doesn't matter because they do not really love us back (no matter what they say). They probably love themselves as much if not more than we love them. I say stick with the high road on the anger, but don't internalize it, find a healthy way to release it, but not on him. It won't make a difference and he'll probably feel good about the fact that he's made you feel this way. I've released anger on my W and all it did was make her get nastier, because remember, they are the ones who want out, not us, so they could care less how they hurt us. By the way, you mentioned introducing friends to Middle Eastern cuisine--are you Middle Eastern? My mom is from Lebanon and my dad is Palestinian, so I thought it was interesting to hear that from you. Well take care and write back. My sit has changed quite a bit, so if you have time drop in and read what's going on with me (I'm in the infidelity forum).

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#1678534 - 12/21/08 08:30 PM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: WaitingPatiently]
Nasmat Offline
Member

Registered: 12/01/08
Posts: 250
Loc: Georgia
Hey everyone! Thanks so much for being here for me. I promise I'll reply to everyone soon. I'm so keyed up right now that I can't think straight. I got this from my husband this evening:

_____ [my proper name],

I know I keep pushing for us to hurry and settle our financial issues and for that I'm sorry. I just want to hurry and clear everything up in order for us to press forward. When your able to in January lets take a day and try to handle most of these issues at once. I figure the same day we handle the comcast account, we can also go down to Peter's Enterprise and handle the car insurance account by putting it into your name. After that we could call Protect America and do the same as well. Tommorrow I'll call centerone financial services for the car and see what we need to do about getting that into your name. As far as the house I believe you should be able to refinance the house on your own due to your increased income and since interest rates have went down. In the end if you feel you can't handle any of this you need to tell me in order for me to start the paperwork for a bankruptcy and for me to pick up the eclispe. I keep bringing this issue up because when we get divorced I'll have all those items on my credit and will find myself hard press to buy another house or vehicle due to the debt to income ratio. I'm sorry this keeps being brought up but I feel it will be better for the both of us in the end. Please don't take this email as me being an [censored] or a dick. I'm just trying to square all the financial issues before they become a problem.

Thanks, ______ Please email back.


I don't know what to do. I cannot see straight. My ears are ringing.

Help.
_________________________
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Second

Me: 26
WAH: 27
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#1678540 - 12/21/08 08:45 PM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: Nasmat]
breakaway Offline
Member

Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 1464
I don't know, I guess you could email him back and say "you are being an [censored] and a dick. I'll get back to you when I feel like it."
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#1678541 - 12/21/08 08:45 PM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: Nasmat]
spellfire Offline
Member

Registered: 12/01/08
Posts: 812
Loc: USA
I really feel for you right now Nas, this must be so tough to take.

I don't really know what to tell you since I know nothing truly takes the pain away, but I'll try. At this stage total detachment might be a good idea. When my previous serious relationship broke down I actually moved overseas for a while and cut all ties, it helped a lot.

He keeps contacting you, so I would concentrate on getting all the business taken care of ASAP so that you no longer need contact. A third party to handle your business is actually a really good idea. Maybe tell him that he can no longer contact you directly and he has to go through someone you trust.

Sounds drastic, but what you are going through should not be taken lightly by anyone.

I know you are also angry and you have every right. Heck, I am even sitting here feeling angry about what he did to you and I don't even know either of you. Try not to focus on him. Do some nice things for yourself maybe. Music that gets you in touch with yourself, turn out all the lights and dance, call your friends and tell them you need to be around people that care about you, whatever it takes.

Just hang in there, keep posting here too, we are all behind you. Some strangers on the internet, but empathetic to your situation and feeling for you just the same.

SF


Edited by spellfire (12/21/08 08:46 PM)
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Spellfire aka Mike

"Women do not like controlling men. They respect and are attracted to men who control themselves. They ultimately are repelled by men who allow themselves to be controlled." -S&A

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#1678544 - 12/21/08 08:56 PM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: Nasmat]
WaitingPatiently Offline
Member

Registered: 12/01/08
Posts: 287
Loc: North East
Hi Nasmat,

It is so hard, isn't it? You can either not respond and take your time or you can just get it over with asap. Whatever will bring you the most comfort. If you are, definitely stop worrying about him and how your actions will influence him. Do what will work for you. I sort of like the suggestion of using a third party, like a mediator. Good luck and feel better. I've had a horrible day, so I'm going to steal your journaling idea and start doing it myself. Good night to you in Georgia.

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#1678551 - 12/21/08 09:13 PM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: WaitingPatiently]
nw626 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/06/08
Posts: 498
Nas
I know this is hard.
I suggest taking your time to respond to him.
This is his requests/favors, so it is really based on your schedule.
Make the decision that is least stressful for you.
Taking care of yourself, emotionally, physically and financially will be the best gift for Nas this Christmas.
You can do this...

NW626
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Me:33 STBXW:38 S:3
It's not whether you win or lose, it's how you fight the fight....!!

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#1678552 - 12/21/08 09:14 PM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: spellfire]
Br44 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/01/08
Posts: 633
My W was doing the same to me. Apologizing for everything happening so quickly, wanting everything her way, etc.

It didn't make things better or worse, but I told her to stop apologizing, if she was truly sorry, she would stop what she is doing... then I went on to educate her about the effects of divorce on children... which turned out to be a big waste of time... cuz "she'll make sure S turns out good."

I would wait a few days to respond. Then I would tell him you are too busy to plan anything right now. Or if you do agree to meet in January, come up with some excuse why you can't get done what he needs done. Just keep him waiting and on your terms.

mc

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#1678564 - 12/21/08 09:49 PM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: Br44]
Nasmat Offline
Member

Registered: 12/01/08
Posts: 250
Loc: Georgia
I did the wrong thing, guys.

I f***ed up big time.

I called him. I just couldn't take it anymore. I think I had to for my mental health. I called him and he sounded busy - answered like it was a work call. I told him I'd just call him back later. He said no, he was on the other line but he could talk. I told him no bother getting of the phone, and he said he'd call me back in a few.

He called me back a minute later.

We talked for 25 minutes and 10 seconds.

I was not pleasant or friendly. I was cold and detached. I told him that I would prefer if he stopped being formal with me and stopped pressuring me to get things done. I told him that I didn't have any more answers now than I did on Friday and that I needed more time. I told him if he wanted things to be this way - cold and detached - that I could play that game, but I would rather not.

He apologized and said he didn't mean to come off as an a**hole. He said that he was sorry for pushing, and could I just tell him how much time I needed.

I said I didn't know, but that I'd told him we'd discussed things in January. He said he was under alot of financial strain and that he just was trying to get things worked out. I said that I understood, but this was his choice, not mine.

He said he understood and apologized again. He promised not to rush anymore. I said that was good, and that I didn't understand why he was making this so hard for me. I said there is no reason to treat me maliciously.

He said again that he didn't mean to come off like a jerk. He asked if it would be alright to pick up his stuff tomorrow. I said no, tomorrow wasn't a good day for me. I said I also didn't feel comfortable with other people in the house. He said he understood.

I said I especially don't feel comfortable with him bringing his friend that is delighting in this situation. He said it wasn't like that; he said that none of his friends or family had any ill will towards me.

I saud sure, ok.

I said that I didn't even know who he was; that I never knew who he was. I said I knew he was trying to rush so that he could start his new life with his girlfriend, and that was ok, but that I needed more time. He said it wasn't like that - they were only talking - and that he didn't know how many times he had to tell me or write down that none of this is about her.
I said that was fine, but that I knew better. I said I understand the psychology, and I understand that these things are a catalyst, but that there is no point in going into it with him. I said I knew, however, that no one throws away their life and 11 years of history just for the reasons he stated. He got angry and said "if you don't remember correctly, I tried to leave you a year and a half after we were married."

I said that sure, maybe I needed to get a slap in the face to get it, that I hadn't even gotten it before, but that there was no point in going into it. I said he never even gave me a chance.

He said that did I really think it would have made a difference. I said it has made a difference, not that you believe me, but it already has.

He made a "huh" noise. He said that he just doesn't think we'e meant to be. He said he still cared about me and still loved me but that we just weren't right for eachother.


I said don't think I don't understand what's going on here. I said that he's running to create this new life with this new girl, and I said don't think I haven't been there. Don't think I don't get it.

He made another "huh" noise. He said he thought we should get off the phone before it gets ugly.

I said no, I don't want to get off the phone, and he owes me this time. He agreed.

There were many loooong silences after that.

I asked about his family, and he asked about mine. We attempted some small talk about work and family. I asked what he'd gotten his family for Christmas, and he said nothing, just cards (that confirms that the earrings are for his whore). He said his dad is moving down to Florida in February.

He asked about my grandma. I said she wasn't doing so well. And he said that was too bad, that she is a good woman.

It was my turn to make the "huh" noise.

I asked how his girlfriend was, and he said fine (didn't deny it that time). I asked if she was in school, and he said he didn't want to talk about it right now. I said that he owes it to me, and he said he would tell me one day but not now. I said I want to know NOW. He said he just didn't want to tell me.

I said yes, of course, everything is about you and what you want, isn't it?

I asked what his plans were after all of this, and he said in all honesty he would probably go down to Florida and be a cop there. He said if I was trying to figure out if he was getting maried or something that he wasn't. He said he wouldn't do that for a long time.

I made the "huh" noise.

He said he knew this was hard for me, and that it was hard for him too - but that he knew it was harder for me. I asked him why it was hard for him. He got defensive and said for all the reasons I stated. I said I wasn't trying to be a b**** but that I needed to understand why it would be hard for him. He said the history and the finances and everything, and that he still cares about me and loves me.

I was silent.

He said he'd better be going. I asked him if he ever thought we'd truly be friends. He said yes, he knew he would be friends with me and that he hoped I would be friends with him.

I was silent. I said alright, I'll talk to you in January. He said he'd probably talk to me before then.

I said goodbye and hung up.

Well, folks, I think I am officially done with him. I really feel no emotion towards him at all - except disgust. I want to just scrub him out of my life at this point. I want to be done.

~Nas
_________________________
"Don't dream it. Be it."

First
Second

Me: 26
WAH: 27
T/M: 11/4

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#1678567 - 12/21/08 09:56 PM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: Nasmat]
Br44 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/01/08
Posts: 633
Nas -

What do you want? Do you want to save your marriage or not? I know it can flip back and forth as emotions run wild - but what do you truly want?

mc

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#1678573 - 12/21/08 10:02 PM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: Br44]
Nasmat Offline
Member

Registered: 12/01/08
Posts: 250
Loc: Georgia
I honestly don't know anymore, MC. I hate the guy I just spoke with.

I don't know what I want.

I feel like I deserve better, and that at this point I am wasting my time. I remember every problem we ever had, and everything that ever bothered me about him, and it just doesn't seem worth it right now.

What I really want is my old life back, but he's stolen that from me. And in any case, my old life was a lie. I just miss the comfort of it. I am exhuasted. Sometimes, I still come home and fully expect to see him there, to wake up and realise this has all just been a bad dream.

But it's not. It's life.

~Nas
_________________________
"Don't dream it. Be it."

First
Second

Me: 26
WAH: 27
T/M: 11/4

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#1678581 - 12/21/08 10:18 PM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: Nasmat]
nw626 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/06/08
Posts: 498
Nas
Don't be so hard on yourself.
I think all of us here had a similar 'talk' with our WASs at one point.
If you don't know, you just don't know.
You don't have to make a decision tonight.
Give yourself some space and time from your R/M. This is not something you should focus on now.
You need a break from this.....
You are a strong woman...the anger and sadness will pass.
Nas needs to take care of herself first before anything.

NW626
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It's not whether you win or lose, it's how you fight the fight....!!

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#1678584 - 12/21/08 10:25 PM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: nw626]
pearlharbr Offline
Member

Registered: 12/08/08
Posts: 2204
{{{{Nas}}}}

Oh sweetie, I know where you're at. It's almost a liberating feeling to decide you're done, but you don't have to make that decision today. Remember it's a roller coaster, this is a valley but there's still another upwards climb ahead.

I second nw626's advice of taking a break from all this crap right now. I'm going to give you the advice you gave me, "Try to laugh and be silly and remember what a great person you are."
_________________________
If you love somebody, set them free.
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#1678674 - 12/22/08 04:08 AM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: pearlharbr]
mamanpc Offline
Member

Registered: 03/16/08
Posts: 81
Loc: France
Hi Nas, what a tough time you've been having, i really feel for you!

I don't think that you f***ed up that much by calling him - you didn't 'lose it' while you were talking, you said you weren't ready and that you would talk to him in Jan and he said he would talk to you before, and that he loved you.

Right now he's decided that 'you're not right for each other'... but that could change over time. Meanwhile it does make sense for you to GAL and remember what a great person you are WITHOUT him. There is still alot of anger on both sides, it seems... this is so tough for you, i do hope that you hang in there and get through this! venting through these postings can help a lot.
hang in there nas!
mamanpc
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H46
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Sep.jan08,PA,back Apr08,H PA Dec08,end09
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#1678723 - 12/22/08 09:36 AM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: Nasmat]
justwaitn Offline
Member

Registered: 12/05/08
Posts: 32
Morning Nas,

Don't beat yourself up over the phone call. You sounded reasonable on your side. I have come to learn that asking questions doesn't always get us the answer we were hoping for.

I agree that the best thing for you right now is to concentrate on yourself. Take the time to see what you really need in your life. You keep saying that your H isn't the man you married, well, if he were to decide that he wants the M to work, would you want to be married to the new H? I can honestly say that the changes my H made were one's that I had been hoping for for years. And the changes I have made are ones he is happy I made as well.

As my mom says, write out a pros/cons list and see where you end up...(never worked for me...)

Know that I am sending calm and positive vibes to you...

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#1678726 - 12/22/08 09:54 AM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: Nasmat]
WaitingPatiently Offline
Member

Registered: 12/01/08
Posts: 287
Loc: North East
Hi Nasmat,

You really didn't f**k up badly. I have had that same conversation with my W at least twice! We're human, and our spouses are putting us through hell, so we're entiteled to having our emotions run wild every now and then. Yesterday I was very hurt by my W, and what I did was come to the forum and journal and comment on a few other situations and afterwards I felt better. I was able to go downstairs and speak to my W in a friendly way. I think it is very important, as people keep telling me, to not let the WAS see us depressed or angry or hurt. That just reminds them that they don't want to be w/us anymore. Take a break from it all until the new year. Try to find peace and gather your thoughts. I have definitely felt like I was done with my W, but this morning I finally understood that letting go does not mean giving up. Take care of yourself and do your best to enjoy the holidays if you celebrate.

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#1679027 - 12/22/08 03:23 PM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: WaitingPatiently]
Nasmat Offline
Member

Registered: 12/01/08
Posts: 250
Loc: Georgia
Hi, everyone! Thank you so much for all of your kind words. I have read them again and again.

Today is an exhausting day. Everything, including breathing, makes me tired. I went into work really late today - and I only did that after pep-talking myself into refusing to allow my stupid H to ruin my career. I think I'm going to leave early as well. Just don't have it in me to make it through today.

I need to respond to everyone. You are all so wonderful and so good to me. I am just so tired. Mental capacity is low right now. I spent the morning wallowing and feeling guilty. I felt terrible about the call last evening - it was pointless and set me back and it accomplished NOTHING. This is why I have to keep reminding myself that giving into the anger is pointless. The euphoria of "getting it off my chest" never lasts for long.

Then, as I was leaving to go to work, I flipped through some mail and found one on my stupid H's credit card statements. And so I opened it. I confirmed what I already had suspected - when he'd come home to "work it out", he was seeing that b****. He ate lunch at her restaurant on our f***ing anniversary. What really kills me is that he spent $22.50 at a po-dunk s***hole dive, so how did he spend that much. He must have tipped her well, that slut.

I then spent the drive into work blasting Marilyn Manson and fantasizing about confronting the OW at her stank little restaurant. Thoughts of wearing all of the most expensive things I own and stomping in with my girls made me cackle in the car. Yeah, I cackled. I really, truly want to make that b****'s life Hell. I know everyone is going to say I should be making my stupid H's life Hell - and believe me, I dream of it - but right now, it's this pathetic little b**** that is pissing me off. I dream of going there for lunch with my girl's and relishing the look of terror on my H's face. I imagine yanking those cheap-a** earrings out of her ears. I imagine asking her my very favorite question, which would be, "How do you like f***ing my sloppy seconds?" In my dream world, I then get up and throw $200 down on that table, telling her that she should use that money to fix herself up as my H is not used to f***ing cheap whores.

Oh, if only. It would be SO easy.

In any case, just thinking of my H right now disgusts me. I can't believe I married such a pathetic creep. Seriously, all I want right now is to destroy him.

I have information for two really good Private Investigators in the area. I am very seriously considering hiring one of them to follow my H and the skank so that I can get some good dirt. That way if he tries to get alimony, I will be able to provide proof of infidelity to counter it. And besides, it might be fun to file a fault D on the grounds of adultery and try to seek alimony from HIM. Don't think I'd get it, but hey. I wish Georgia was one of the states where you could sue the OW because I would totally do it.

I'm on the fence about the Private Investigator thing. I don't know if I should really consider spending any money on it, but right now it feels like the only way that I'll get the info I really want so I can face the whole thing and move on.

Hmmm, we'll see.

~Nas

Yeah, so the anger was extreme.
_________________________
"Don't dream it. Be it."

First
Second

Me: 26
WAH: 27
T/M: 11/4

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#1679058 - 12/22/08 04:16 PM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: Nasmat]
WaitingPatiently Offline
Member

Registered: 12/01/08
Posts: 287
Loc: North East
Not saying it's the best idea, but I would totally hire a PI if I could afford it. Just a thought.

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#1679068 - 12/22/08 04:24 PM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: Nasmat]
Nasmat Offline
Member

Registered: 12/01/08
Posts: 250
Loc: Georgia
Wanted to document some stuff for my own mental records. This is the history of our email correspondence.

11/17 - my letter: H was staying with his dad for my first suggested tril separation. Had no idea about OW at this point. We had not spoken since 11/15, and I wrote this to him as a means of sharing my vulnerabilities.

Monday, November 17, 2008, 2:21 AM:

It's late, and I can't sleep. I find myself sitting in here thinking of all the other sleepless nights when I've written you notes - in high school, when thoughts of you kept me awake and full of all the anxious insomnia of young love. In college, when I tried to imagine your life halfway around the world, sleepless with a worry I could not allow myself to embrace in the daylight.
In those days, I'd write you letters that I never sent. Some were kind. Some were not. The sad truth is that the kind letters were the most difficult to send because of the knots of fear that coiled inside me - fear that felt like anger because anger was easier to live with.

Anger is still much easier to live with.

You wouldn't believe the fears I'd had - of being laughed at, of being marginalized, of becoming the punch line in a joke. You know this, I think, but I wonder if you truly know how much those anxieties were about me and not you.

For the record, I never harbored those fears because I thought you a villain or a liar or somehow less than me. It was always more about my inner battles, about my demons taunting me from the sidelines.

All these years later, it is still extremely difficult for me to write you this email, but I am doing it because somewhere in the midst of all of my denial and repression and exterior calm, I realized that it might help you to know that I am lonely here. That I am afraid. That I miss you, and that I am filled with a hundred different flavors of sadness.

I am hurting, and I feel as though there is no floor beneath me.

As if my entire lexicon of beliefs is being rewritten, and here I am, left without definitions to match my words.

The house is an empty shell tonight, and my thoughts echo.

Loneliness is a living thing, circling like a vulture to peck at my reserve. The dryer cycles. Lola sleeps as she always sleeps, curled into the pillows on the bed. Outside, I hear the wind raw and whistling against the window panes.

And I am sitting on this couch on pins and needles, wondering if the truths I considered fundamental were ever true at all – the belief that no matter what my insecurity told me that you loved me even better than I could imagine, that I was the woman you really wanted – the exact thing, despite all the challenges. That you would always be there for me, my greatest champion, my friend in everything, my companion forever. I want so badly to believe that you love me in a pure way that, cerebrally, I understand is not realistic or fair or even possible. I want to believe that some part of me is still on your pedestal because so much of me has left my own.

I wanted so badly to believe that you would never want or need to ask the question, "Is she enough? Is what we have enough?"

It seems that there are so many delusions that I can no longer cling to, that have been washed away by this thing we call adulthood. I can no longer reside in the childish visions of myself, can no longer reside within the stories I spun for myself years ago when I was my own false prophet. I'm no genius. I'm no supermodel. I'm not a doctor of anything, and I'm 26 and still unpublished. I'm not fabulously rich, and I'm not an adventure-seeking, fearless tour de force of a woman.

So be it. Life goes on, and our understanding of ourselves – of what we want verses what we imaged we'd want – often diverge. I've made my peace with who I am and who I can still be. I've come to love the road I travel, to see potential in the pavement. Strangely enough, letting go of those visions was easy because I could believe in one thing, one fundamental constant in my world:

That you loved me despite my acerbic temperament, despite my desire to sabotage the good things in my life, despite all of my flaws. I held this delusion that at least you didn't doubt me, couldn't doubt me. That you saw me and only me. That other women were ghosts in comparison and could never approach my shoes let alone fill them. That I was something special, something magnificent. I wanted so badly to know that I was exactly what you wanted – that me as I am was the right thing, the only woman in the world. I realize that I haven't earned much of that over the years, and that it was an unfair fantasy, but I was in love with it nonetheless. It gave me strength, to believe that at least to one person I could be the sum total, the best possible version of myself.

Now, of course, I am faced with the pain of letting that last delusion go. And it is a colossal, wrenching pain. It makes my organs quiver and my feet twitch and my whole body tense with the last vestiges of denial. I am breaking and breaking and cobbling myself together at each fracture, trying desperately to mend the cracks in my fantasy world. My cool, collected front is an attempt at triage, a last ditch.

And so here I am, wondering what you've been thinking about today and trying to imagine what you'd been thinking all the days prior - if what I'd imagined could even come close to the truth. And I cannot help but ask myself the other questions, the nagging questions I hate to face:

If ____ has been all of this for me – the touchstone, the foundation, the champion - what have I been for ____? What do I do for ____, and why would he stay, why would he want to? In all of my glorious fantasies of myself through your eyes, how much, if any, of that image have I actually earned?

And I'm too afraid to ask myself if I can earn it. If I ever could.

It's that wait for the final lottery number, this limbo I'm suspended in, except in this case the stakes are higher because there's as much to lose as there is to gain.

In any case, I am sitting here - sleepless but tired - wondering whether I'm making the best choice in drafting this letter even as I am compelled to continue writing. But I am writing, and I am doing it because it occurred to me earlier today that in all of my business-like calm, you might have mistaken my attempt at fairness as indifference.

I am not indifferent, but I wanted to try to do right by you by maintaining my calm, by trying to listen and step outside of my own feelings in order to be judicious. I didn't want anger to win out as it tends to.

And I was also trying to do right by myself. I didn't want your decision to be based in some subconscious manipulation on my part. The questions that surround our wedding are questions I don't want to grapple with again; the idea that I pressured you into marrying me haunts me enough.

Of course, I also retained the composure I retained because anything less would have made me open my wounds to the salt that was our conversation. I would have been vulnerable - more vulnerable, perhaps, than you, and in my twisted mental world that would have been tantamount to being trampled. To being laughed at and used and discarded. To being humiliated.

Being vulnerable from - my unhealthy, inaccurate perspective - would have made me a fool.

The thing of it is, I'm not very good at being vulnerable in general. You know this, of course. A part of me wishes I could change my instincts, that I could suppress the angry little builder in me that erects these protective walls, but another part of feels safe in this house I've built.

It's so easy to be angry or detached. There's a false righteousness in there. There's some part of me that's so angry at the chance I might look foolish that I do anything and everything I can to avoid it. What it really comes down to is fear - fear that I'll wake up one day and find my world turned on its head, that all the things I believed to be true would instead be false. A facade. Smoke over the mirrors.

If I could look at all of this anger and detachment under a microscope and pinpoint the single-cell that bore it all into my world, I'd be looking at my father and mother, at the boys the made fun of me in elementary school.

But these are all old stories, long stories that my weary fingers can no longer attempt to type. There's too much to say to be said though this medium, and my eyelids grow heavy. Perhaps, in the end, I'm terrified that you'll see that parts of me that I hide from myself - the weaker parts, the kinder parts, the more average parts.

I want to tell you how much I love you, but I can't. I'm too afraid that you won't love me as much - or at all - or that perhaps it won't matter enough in the end.

To end as I began, it's late, but I think perhaps I can sleep now. I've promised myself that I won't send this letter yet; that I'll consider my words in the light of day when there's less likelihood of misconstruing my meaning. That'll I'll wait until I am sure I can share these sentiments, until I am ready to deal with any response even if that means none at all.

Goonight,

Me


11/17 - his response:

We've got a lot work out and talk about. I'd be lying if I said I did not miss you and Lola. Its not fun living in a room five feet by five feet. I miss you. Meet me at ______ on Thursday at 9pm if you can. Be safe.

After that, we ended up meeting in the evening of 11/18. He asked for a D after I pressured him for "a verdict". He came home after I called him crying. He assured me everything would be ok. We made it until about 11:30 PM on 11/20, our 4 year anniversary. He admitted there was "another woman" and left. This email was the first contact I had from him after leaving:

11/22 - his email:

Hello _____ [proper name],

I'm writing in order to make sure the bill situation is getting worked out. When I left you told me you wanted the car, house, and everything. That's fine. I just want you to know that I'm not going to pay any bills associated with the house and or vehicle due to having to find a place to rent and can't afford it. If you want to give me the car then I can pay that along with insurance, but I honestly can't afford the house payment. Also everything such as cable, electric, water/utilities needs to get paid as well. I'm not going to be able to pay for that as well. I'm going to take the home security system unless you want it, but that also comes with a thirty dollar monthly payment as well. If you decided to keep the house or sell and not let it foreclose than we need to get together in order to change everything in your name so you get credit for it. If not I'll have to let it bankrupt. _____ [proper name], for the record I never had any sexual relations with anyone, I was only talking. I'm going to come over Tuesday afternoon with one of my coworkers to retrieve my belongings. I'll make sure to only grab my gear. Also can you leave out my family photos as well. I won't keep you any longer.

_____


11/22 - my response:

Good afternoon, ____.

Thank you for your email. I truly hope that this note finds you well.

As far as your request for my response is concerned, I respectfully request a little more time in responding. The decisions to be made in this situation will have long-standing consequences, therefore I require more time in responding as to the exact nature of my position in regards to the items I will take. I would appreciate it greatly if you would give me until 10:00 AM on Tuesday, November 25th to respond to you thoroughly as to how to proceed. I do appreciate greatly that you promised that I could have whatever I wanted in any way that I wanted, and that the terms of our settling of affairs would be my decision. I thank you for that, and it is a mark of your character.

As I have requested that you wait until Tuesday morning for my full answer, I think it best to schedule the removal of your possessions for Wednesday or Thursday. Please let me know the time that you will arrive to remove your things. If you require anything from the house immediately, I can have a neutral party meet you to deliver those items. I will of course leave your family photos out for you, and I will do my best to separate our goods ahead of time so as to save you time in rifling through each room.

When you left, I said that one day I hoped we could come together as friends, and I meant it. We have had a long journey together, and although we are both opening a new chapter in our lives, I hope that we can each look back at our season together with fondness, warmth, and appreciation for the time we had. I know that I will. I truly wish you the best on your continuing journey, and I wish you happiness and fulfillment in all you do.

Sincerely,
_____


He did not respond by email. We worked things out by text/over the phone mostly. The next emails were two emails sent by me. I sent pictures of our dog to him.

11/23 - my two emails:

____,

I thought you might like to have this picture of Lola that I took in your truck with my cell phone. I will send you a series of emails with files of digital photos that you might want later that are saved on my computer but not printed/developed.

Take care of yourself, and give my best wishes to your family.

____


I hope you had a good time at Steve's tonight - or are having a good time if you are still there.

I've attached several pics from the computer that you might want.


11/23 - his response:

Thanks for all the photos. I'll always cherish them. When is a good time for me to come over and pick some things up? If you don't feel comfortable with someone there, then I can come alone. I'll pick up the bike up some other day. I just need to pick my guns up (minus yours), clothes, and my mail. I promised ____ and ____ [sister and BIL] one of my guns. I can come over any evening after you get back from work. Please let me know before you leave to Chicago. Thanks ____[my pet name].

11/24 - my response:

You're very welcome, ____. There's still a good deal of pictures left, and we can talk about the ones you want, etc, when we meet up.

I honestly don't feel comfortable with someone else coming over yet, so I think it's probably best that you bring them over to pick up the bike while I'm in Chicago. I'd like to sit down with you and discuss the best ways to settle things. We need to figure out things in the house that you want, talk about bills and timeframes for this process, talk about when/how all of our stuff will be removed, etc. I'd prefer to do this at the house as I think it will help to physically be here and go through things, and you can spend some time with Stink Pink as well. Perhaps we can even figure out how that is going to work, as I know she misses you and vice versa.

Also, have you considered spending the time I am in Chicago here at the house? I honestly think it would be a good idea. It will be difficult in many ways, but on the flip side you will get time to go through and pack your things, and you'll get some time/closure with Loocow. I will ask, however, that you please do not bring the woman you are dating to the house as I just think that would be too difficult for me.

I'm pretty flexible on a time to meet as I have taken the week off of work. My personal feeling is that it would be best to sit down this evening or tomorrow evening. We can have some dinner and figure out logistics instead of trying to be painfully formal, etc.

I hope you're doing well, and Loocow sends her love and says you're not just gross but super-gross.

____[my pet name]


11/24 - new email from me: I sent this later in the day, as we talked on the phone after I sent the above email.

This is going to sound really strange to you coming from me, but if you have a rosary with you, could you bring it with you tomorrow? I'd like to pray with you. I know that sounds really strange, but I've been praying the rosary alot, asking God to carry me and guide me to help accept the path he's chosen for me that I don't have enough wisdom to understand. I've been through alot of internal growth and change over the past few days, and I've been finding peace with God.

I feel inside that this is my time to connect with God again after so many, many years of cynicism and selfishness, and I thought you might find peace in praying as well.

I know this must sound insane to you coming from me of all people, and I understand if you feel too uncomfortable to want to sit down and pray with me. It's ok if you don't want to. It won't hurt my feelings. I just wanted to ask you as I just finished praying, and I felt something in my heart that said that we should pray together to guide us and give us strength.

I know you are moving on and letting go, and I am trying my best to release myself to that path. I don't want you to think I have ulterior motives here. I just felt the deep need inside to do this with you if you are open to it.

____ [my pet name]


11/24 - his response:

_____[proper name],

I understand I put you through the ringer. I know how hard it must be. Its equally hard for me as well and I'm finding an equally difficult time trying to figure out things in life. I don't think I'm going to come over tomorrow. I'll make due until you leave. I want to come over, but I think we both need time to think. I'm weirded out on how your taking this whole situation. I don't blame you one bit because it's sh*tty of me in the end. I don't know what to think anymore. Please forgive me, but I can't be there tomorrow. I'll talk to you later.


11/24 - my response: I wonder what would have happened if I'd just shut my f***ing mouth.....

____,

First of all, let me just say that although I've been through the ringer, it is NOT your fault. I was in here, making my own mistakes as well. It really is ok. I told you that I forgive you and that I understand, and I truly do. I know it's really hard to match what I'm saying with my personality, but somewhere inside of me a light was flipped - it's like I can understand things now that I just couldn't before. I can see things clearly, and in my heart I just feel very changed. That's why I told you about the thing on EWTN. It was really weird, because I'd been feeling lost and desolate again, so I'd prayed the rosary and felt so peaceful. I asked God to help me to be humble and accept the future as it will be rather than try to make it something it's not. I prayed for wisdom to do the right thing, whatever that may be. And then I went into the living room, started flipping channels, and when I got to EWTN the remote froze up. And I started listening instead of flipping channels. I watched Mass and then the program that I told you about came on, and it was all about how sometimes in life, if you are filled with selfishness and cyncism, God has to basically smack you in the head with a hammer to make you come to your senses and understand how to really love - to love God, yourself, and others. I think the priest said that God "hits you where it hurts most." That's really what happened to me. I know it's so hard to believe coming from me of all people, but when I heard the priest talking I knew it was true. The thing is, I didn't understand about love or God or myself until this happened and I had to face all this pain. I thought I was loving selflessly, but what I really was doing was trying to find love for myself and wasn't alowing myself to love correctly. I can see that now. And I can see that I have treated you so unfairly for so long that I can do nothing but pray for us to find our way - whatever that way may be.

I have regrets, of course, but I have to accept the lesson in whatever way it comes.

I understand you may be falling in love with someone else right now, and I know you're facing feelings of guilt, uncertainty, and pain. And I promise you that it's ok. I really do understand, and even though I love you - truly, just as you are, and perhaps correctly for the first time ever - I know that you feel you need to let go and move on to something else. And I can't do anything but accept that. It hurts, of course, but I cannot feel anything but love and hope for you.

I'm sorry that it's probably very hard to read this. I don't want you to feel any kind of pressure from me, because my motives aren't to change you but to let you know that it will be ok. You will be ok, and I will be ok.

I'd be lying if I said I wanted a divorce, but I know that part of loving someone is letting them go if they have to go, and so in my heart I am doing that. I feel in my heart that there really is a plan for us that we are not wise enough to see, and so I have to accept that the plan might differ from my own desires.

I honestly hope that you believe what I'm saying. I know this must seem really crazy coming from me, and I am sorry if I am causing you any undo stress.

I understand that you don't feel comfortable coming over tomorrow. It really is ok. I'm torn inside between the desire to not be so honest with you because you might interpret it differently than it is intended and it might make you uncomfortable, but somehow I feel like I have not been honest for so long that I can't stop myself.

I'm so sorry that I wierded you out. Take all the time you need. I'll probably call you a little later just because I have a couple logistical questions that I need to ask as you'll be coming to the house while I'm away.

____


11/24 - another stinking email from me: Wow, I was persistent as Hell. So, I'd called him and told him that I might be pregnant. I followed it up with this email. He texted me in return.

I'm sorry if it was wrong of me to tell you or if I upset you for no reason. I probably should have held off, but I thought you had the right to know. I'll go get a test tomorrow. I would go today, but I can't renew my license until tomorrow and my parents won't let me drive without a license and I don't want to have to say anything to my mom.

I'll call you and let you know the results. It will be ok no matter what. Don't think I'd do anything terrible like getting rid of it. We could still go through it together even if we divorce, so don't feel this is a pressure thing. Plus it might not even be true and therefore would be moot. Don't stress about it too much.


11/25 - my email: I sent this after packing a suitcase of stuff for him to pick up while I was out of town.

Hey. \:\) I was packing for Chicago tonight and thought it might be helpful to pack some things in your suitcase that you probably were gonna pick up tomorrow anyways. It's in the walk-in closet where the laundry basket normally is. I separated out your bills and they are on the desk in the office. There's a package for ____ [sister] and ____ [nephew] that my mom left on the counter, and there's a little toy for Lucy on the counter that my aunt sent. The alarm keypad thing is on the mirror by the front door.

Feel free to come over whenever - my mom won't be around, so no need to worry there.

Here's my itinerary in case you need it to plan your visits or for whatever:

Leave:
- Wednesday, November 26
- Depart Savannah xx:xx xM EST
- Arrives O'Hare xx:xx xM CST

Return:
- Saturday, November 29
- Depart O'Hare xx:xx xM CST
- Arrive Savannah xx:xx xM EST

Oh, and in case you need to call me for something, you know how stupid the _____ network can be so if you can't get my phone, you can call ___ at xxx-xxx-xxxx.

Have a fun holiday and give my love to your family.
~____


11/26 - his response:

Thanks for everything ____ [proper name] and to your family as well. I know things are hard right now for you and I feel horrible. I'll check on the house periodically. Try to enjoy yourself with ____. I'll send your love to my family. Please do the same with yours. Also tell stink pink I love her. Be safe up there. When you get back we can sit down and go over all the bill stuff and time lines. Be safe. Also is there anything on the laptop of yours because if it's okay I want to go ahead and take with me. Take care ____ [pet name].

____


11/30 - my email: I wrote this after the encounter we had at the house when I returned from Chicago and came home to find the letter from him that I previously posted.

Good morning, Stink.

I know my mom wrote you last night - found out this morning and believe me, I am upset with her. I know it makes things harder for you, and makes you feel unneccessary pressure, and I'm sorry for that. My mom is a simple, kind-hearted person, and she can't seem to hold herself back in times like these. I hope the letter was not too hard for you to read and that you're not angry with her. She really loves you so much and it's hard for her to keep her thoughts to herself.

I guess you could say we're kinda the same in that way. ;\)

I really do appreciate you coming over last night. I know it was hard for you, and I know you're angry and perhaps somewhat resentful that I'm putting all of this change and pressure on you and not outwardly respecting your need for distance. I can honestly say that in my heart I am trying, but you know me and my thoughts - it's too hard to keep them inside. I'm sorry that I pushed you so hard to stay last night. I understand why you couldn't. The bitter irony is the only person in the world who could comfort me right now is you - not even because of the situation, per se, but because you've always been my strength. When you hug me and talk with me, I just feel better. That's why I was trying so hard to get you to stay last night. I wanted a little dose of "feel better" even though I knew in my heart that you were saying goodbye.

I know that I need to let you go. It's easier said than done, of course, but I am trying. I do hope that you can let me do it in my own way. Believe it or not, it really does help me to talk to you, email you, text you, etc. It makes me feel less like there's been a death and more able to try to reset my internal gage to "friend".

In many ways, I'm glad that you feel free, and I'm sorry that you never felt that freedom with me. I can understand why you didn't. If I look back over the course of our 11 years I can see all of the signs. You needed time and room to grow - and perhaps so did I - but we were together and that togetherness, though enriching, perhaps stunted some of that growth. During the times when most people are out experimenting - running free and finding themselves, dating and following their own dreams - you and I were committed and building a life together. That makes it difficult to see the forest for the trees. I've had my own times in life where I've questioned us, where I've felt like we were maybe complacent or only half here. I always came back to the love, though, and made my choices to bear that weight and reinvent my ideas of life because it felt worth it. Perhaps that is my own weakness. But the point is, I get the siren's song of the self, and I understand your need to follow it. I think the tragedy is that what we have - the love, the closeness, the humor and comraderie - that's what people who are lucky end up with in life. But it's a burden to bear for people as young as us who perhaps skipped some growth stages in the process.

Of course the other bitter tragedy in all of this is that we've come to separate epiphanies, you and I. I've perhaps found God for the first time ever, and I've found within myself the desire to finally be a wife and mother. Now, those desires have nowhere to go, and I must force myself to reinvent once again.

I wish that we could try again, but I really do get that if we did, you would always wonder what and who you would have been without me. That's a heavy cross to bear, and I know that eventually it would become too heavy again, as you said.

Mark, I do have so many regrets. I wish I could turn back time and change so many things. I wish that I could cry openly with you while you were in Afghanistan, and that I would have put aside all of my childish fears and written you every single day. I wish that I could go back to the time before we got married and given you your time then, when it would have been easier for both of us and when we perhaps could have found ourselves and then found eachother once again. I wish that I could go back to our wedding and let the disc jockey play every single song you wanted to hear instead of being so selfish. I wish that I could have waited longer to buy this house, and that I could have found the motherly place in my heart sooner. I wish that I could have shown you more respect outwardly and that I could have deferred to you more, that I could have been more of a partner and a real wife.

And most of all, I wish in my childish way that everything could be ok again. That I could hang out with you and watch Christopher Lee strangle some poor bastard on this rainy day. I wish that you and I and Loo-cow could snuggle together in bed, laying like humans, and take a nap. I wish that I could make love to you again and memorize every moment to carry with me into the great unknown.

But these things are not meant to be, I know.

The sad thing is that everyone tells me I'm going to be this great person, but all I want is to be a normal person. Such is life, my friend. Some times, we just miss the train.

I am thinking of our history today. I remember every dance we ever attended - the taste of the Krystals, the texture of the nightime wind as we drove. I remember that first dance - the first millitary ball sophomore year where I wore my blue dress and your hands found my garter belt. I remember that baseball field where we used to park, and the time we went for a "drive" and got your dad's station wagon caught in the mud. I remember the "boxed chicken" incident and the ensuing mortification. I remember your old house, your mom in her PJs talkign to Willy and you and I in the bedroom with the door locked, with King and his blue eye laying beside the bed. I remember that time when Rachel and Brian and you and I went down to Tybee for the first time and the seagulls were everywhere. And I remember how I cried when you left for boot camp, and how, when you came back, I was so shocked to find a man in place of the boy that left me. I remember you standing in the shower, wearing your dog tags and washing your hair with a bar of soap. How I loved you in that moment. If I could find that moment again, I would. And I remember the first hotel we made love in, with it's dingy kitchenette and the prostitutes outside. And then there were all the times in college - dorm visits and sharing that tiny bed, the motels and fast food, the time we went to Insomnia and Mandy embarrassed everyone. I'll never forget the fun we had in Cleveland, our God-awful first apartment with its black mold, or eating shrimp cocktail with you on our wedding night. You are inside every fond memory since my fifteenth birthday, and I will carry that fondness with me always.

In any case, know that I will always love you. You were my first everything - date, dance, kiss, sexual partner, husband, love - and so I will always carry you in my heart. I know you said that I will move on and find true love, and I know that you are right. So will you. But I hope you know that this is true love as well - true love that perhaps, heartbreakingly, came at the wrong time. There's a poem by Auden that pretty much sums things up:

He was my North, my South, my East and West,
My working week and my Sunday rest,
My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
I thought that love would last for ever: I was wrong.

I love you, my ____, and I will continue to miss you always. Find yourself. Be free. I know that what you will find will thrill you because you will find a strong, fearless, kind, talented and intelligent man beyond even what you imagine now.

____, I know this was hard to read. Please forgive me for sending it. It helps me to write you, and I hope you can find it in your heart not to shut me out, to allow me these bits of contact that - though they may seem counterproductive to you - actually help me immensely.

Always your friend,
____ [my nickname]


12/08 - his email: He sent this the Monday after he came over (Satruday) and slept with me.

Hey ____ [my pet name],

Just wanted to write and let you know that I went ahead and got that place. I'll need to turn the power on some time this week. I'll go to the power company and ask them what we need to do about switching the power and putting it in your name at the house. I just want to make sure that you are covered and not getting screwed. I'll find out and will let you know. I'll start packing this weekend. I'll also give you the house key back this weekend. Okay ____ [pet name], I'll keep you informed.

____


12/08 - he sent this email several hours later:

____ [pet name],

I also just wanted to write to see if your okay and if things were still scary across the street. Even though we are separated I still care for you and hope everything is safe.

____


12/18 - his email:

Good afternoon _____ [proper name],

Just wanted to give you a heads up in regards to some bills that need to be paid in order not disrupt service. The Protect America bill is due (29.95) and the insurance bill is due on or before the 25th (114.95). Just want to make sure that you have no problems with service disruption. Okay, take care and when your able to (January) we can hook up and go over everything to sort out everything once more concerning the bills, property, and civil processes. Thanks for your time ____[proper name].

____


12/20 - his email: He forwarded the insurance info for me to pay.

Here is the car insurance renewal policy ___ [pet name].

Thanks, ____


12/20 - my response:

Thanks for sending this. Could you give me the login and password? I can't get in to pay it.

Thanks again.


12/20 - his response:

I don't know the login and password. If you go to the Drive Insurance websit just hit where it says "pay bill" on the home page. It will bring you to a screen where you need to input the account number (located on the forwarded email) and other personal information. From there it will bring you to a screen to input your payment option. If this doesn't work let me know and I'll pay it and you can pay me back until we switch it into your name.

Thanks, ____


12/21 - my response:

Thanks for the info. It is now paid.

12/21 - new email from him:

___ [proper name],

I know I keep pushing for us to hurry and settle our financial issues and for that I'm sorry. I just want to hurry and clear everything up in order for us to press forward. When your able to in January lets take a day and try to handle most of these issues at once. I figure the same day we handle the comcast account, we can also go down to Peter's Enterprise and handle the car insurance account by putting it into your name. After that we could call Protect America and do the same as well. Tommorrow I'll call centerone financial services for the car and see what we need to do about getting that into your name. As far as the house I believe you should be able to refinance the house on your own due to your increased income and since interest rates have went down. In the end if you feel you can't handle any of this you need to tell me in order for me to start the paperwork for a bankruptcy and for me to pick up the eclispe. I keep bringing this issue up because when we get divorced I'll have all those items on my credit and will find myself hard press to buy another house or vehicle due to the debt to income ratio. I'm sorry this keeps being brought up but I feel it will be better for the both of us in the end. Please don't take this email as me being an [censored] or a dick. I'm just trying to square all the financial issues before they become a problem.

Thanks, ____ Please email back.


And there you have it, the history our of email correspondence. Hee haw. I'm trying to find a pattern in all of it.

Ah well, time to go home and eat in my sad, lonely house.

~Nas
_________________________
"Don't dream it. Be it."

First
Second

Me: 26
WAH: 27
T/M: 11/4

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#1679073 - 12/22/08 04:32 PM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: Nasmat]
Nasmat Offline
Member

Registered: 12/01/08
Posts: 250
Loc: Georgia
Damn - almost forgot. These are the two emails my mom sent him. Yeesh.

11/23:

____,

I just had to somehow communicate with you and let you know how shocked Dad and I were about all that has come about in the past week. We are saddened greatly. I am not as good as Nasmat or Dad in putting my thoughts into words but I will try because I think it is important you know how I feel. ____, I can't tell you how much my heart aches for you both but also particularly so for Nasmat who is hurting more each day. This has been very hard for me and it feels like I am losing a family member. ____, we have always loved you and have always had great respect for you. You have been like a son to me. My sister and mother are also very saddened by all this and they have been very upset. My mother particularly hurts and as Nasmat said to me the other day, she is particularly fond of you. So you see how you are loved by so many and that is why this is so hard. When there is so much love for both, that makes it particularly hard to bear. If the love wasn't there then it wouldn't hurt so much but when love is there, the hurt goes deep. I am particularly worried about Nasmat. As each day goes by I see her hurting more. She told me she talked to you this morning. ____, usually divorce is a last resort and before that conclusion is reached, couples will try everything possible to try to work things out. I just wish you both could have tried hard to work things out. You two have been through a lot in the past eleven years; you've weathered a lot and I think there were lots of good things in store for both of you in the future. You know, I told Nasmat yesterday that I always envisioned you both growing old together! I have been hoping and praying that somehow things would work out for the better. I will still hope and pray for that up until the very end. Despite all that has happened, I still love you and I will never forget you. Every time I look at Lola, I think of you because you are the one who rescued her! Speaking of Lola, I know she misses you particularly as nighttime draws near. She goes to the door and looks out the window a lot and I think she is looking for you. ____, you are a very intelligent, hard-working and kind person. Never lose those traits. Because of them I know you will go far in life. You have always done well in your profession, ____, and we have always been so proud of you! And never lose that deep love you have for animals. Goodness knows we need more people like that in the world. I wish you lots of luck and success in your future endeavors. And I will never ever forget you. You will always hold a special place in my heart!

____, I hope I have expressed my thoughts and feelings in this email to you. I have been so upset lately that my mind is a little muddled. I just wish all this never happened and that you two could indeed grow old together. You take good care of yourself. I do worry about you, too.

Love from Mom (Mrs. T.)

PS. You are always in my thoughts and prayers.



11/30:

Dear ____,

When I picked Nasmat up at the airport today, she seemed in a better frame of mind and more upbeat and hopeful. When I dropped her off at home I really was hopeful that things would work out and that you would move back home and you both would try hard to make it work. But my hopes were shattered when she called home crying and we both rushed over to see her. I have to admit that I was very angry but after I read your letter to Nasmat I now have a better understanding and now my heart is breaking for you both. ____, after reading your letter to Nasmat, I do understand this outcome more but at the same time I can't quite understand and accept why you would want to lose so much....a beautiful home and a wonderful wife. I told Nasmat and Dad that I don't think I ever have come across in my life someone who is so terribly confused, lost and troubled as you are. And that is a shock to me because I never saw that in you. I wish we saw that long ago because just maybe we could have helped you in some way. And now I worry about you even more and my heart aches so for you. I told Dad (Mr. T.) that if we saw this coming a while ago it might not be so traumatic but we never saw this coming and it has hit like a ton of bricks....literally!!!! I just wish all this would have come about before you got married but after 11 years of deep friendship and four good married years, this all is so much harder to bear. Today Nasmat was of the frame of mind that if love is still there then things can work out. This is what is so very tragic about the whole thing......the love, especially that Nasmat has, is so strong......that is what makes it so hard! Actually there is so much love still on all sides.....on your side of the family and then also on my side of the family.....Dad and I and also with my sister and mom. We all have always loved you both so much and always will. My heart just aches so for you, being so confused and troubled, and for Nasmat who has such deep love for you. Her heart is breaking and that heartache will be with her for a long time. And she will never ever lose that love for you.....even later in life. ____, as I have told you before, you have always been like a son to us and we have always loved you. And I feel like I am losing a loved one....like a loved one has died. Yes I am angry that this all has happened (never in my wildest dreams did I ever see anything like this happening with you two!) but at the same time my heart aches for you. I truly do think that if your mother was alive, things might be different in some ways. I truly wish your mother was here for you. I wish I could be a mother to you but I can't because no one ever could take your mother's place. But I do want you never to forget how much I love you and will never ever forget you! I've been praying to God to show us all the way because I really have not known what to do and I have just left everything in His hands to lead the way and let His will be done. I guess He is showing us the way even though it is not what I wanted. I do pray that God will help you find yourself and give you what you truly want in life. I wish that could have been with Nasmat but I have to accept that it is not meant to be.

____, my sister always does her Xmas shopping early and has sent gifts for you. I want you to please accept them and my sister wants you to please have them. I have left them at the house so please take them. Also, I wish you would keep at least one of those jack knives that were my father's (I think I gave you two). Actually, I wish you would keep even the big knife my mother gave you that was my dad's in the Navy. I know he would have wanted you to have it; he would have been so proud of you being in the Marines and would have wanted you to keep it. You decide; my mom and I would want you to have those but if you do not want to keep them then I wish you could at least keep one of the jack knives.

____, my heart is breaking so and it will for a long time. I love you and will think of you a lot in the years to come hoping that you will find yourself and find love and happiness again. But please, never forget that Nasmat truly loves you so and you will always be with her in thought and in her soul.

Please take care of yourself. If you could have that operation to correct your sleep apnea, I wish you would. That type of surgery is done all the time and will correct the problem. I just worry that if you don't have the operation then the sleep apnea will lead to heart problems or other medical problems. Take care and remember I will never forget you and will always love you and you'll always hold a special place in my heart despite all that has happened. I will try to keep in touch with your dad and sisters to see how you are doing and what you are doing. I will truly miss you!!

I will always hold you in my thoughts and prayers.

Love,
Mom (Mrs. T.)


Yeah, so I could have killed my mother for sending these. She sent them without telling me, and you KNOW they did not help at all.

Of course, he never had the balls to email her back. What a coward he is.

~Nas


Edited by Nasmat (12/22/08 04:32 PM)
_________________________
"Don't dream it. Be it."

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Second

Me: 26
WAH: 27
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#1679526 - 12/23/08 09:42 AM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: Nasmat]
WaitingPatiently Offline
Member

Registered: 12/01/08
Posts: 287
Loc: North East
Parents mean well, but they often do more harm than good. Don't be too mad her (if you even are), remember it came from a very good place. My parents have also my pain on as their own. I'm very close to them (it looks like you're close to your family as well), and I know they love me very much, but they too have made some mistakes in all of this. I just think no one really knows how to react to these things. Take care, and I hope you make yourself have a good day today.

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#1679558 - 12/23/08 10:18 AM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: WaitingPatiently]
marriedCrazy Offline
Member

Registered: 09/06/08
Posts: 2105
That's why it's sometimes mentioned that you DB the family as well. Just to avoid situations like this.
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#1679757 - 12/23/08 01:31 PM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: marriedCrazy]
Nasmat Offline
Member

Registered: 12/01/08
Posts: 250
Loc: Georgia
Journal:

Today is an interesting day. Last night I fell asleep in sadness. Today, I woke up with something like forgiveness in my heart. These are the steps to moving on, I think. Slowly, surely, but with much stumbling.

I woke up this morning with a sore throat. I felt sick, and so I didn't go into work. I should have, and I feel guilty about it, but not going in has given me some perspective that I needed.

During my second semester of my freshmen year of college, I fell sick with Graves Disease. I didn't know it at the time; at the time, I thought that the transition into college was just too much for me. I was severely depressed, and I constantly skipped class. I skipped and skipped and skipped in an attempt to shield myself from the pain of trying. I was seeking my bliss in recreation, but I did little work.

At the end of the semester, I failed out of one class and passed two with D's. Prior to falling sick, I'd been a straight-A student. I had to go home and face all of the unpleasant consequences - my parent's anger, my own disappointment, my sadness at losing one scholarship and jeopardizing the others.

Life seemed so bleak, and at one moment, I even considered giving up on life in general. It was a very brief moment, but it happened nonetheless.

Eventually, I ended up being rushed to the hospital with what was a minor heart attack. My doctor had been medicating me for depression, and the drugs he'd used had actually caused me to enter into a potentially fatal condition called a thyroid storm.

After being properly diagnosed, I was faced with a huge decision. I could take the advice of my family and doctors and spend a year recovering at my parent's home, going to class at a local college. Or, I could return to my university on my own and struggle to bring up my grades enough to keep my scholarships.

I chose the struggle, and I never regretted it. It was difficult as Hell, and I had many moments of bleakness and discouragement, but in the end what I ended up gaining was much more than pride in my diploma - it was the knowledge that I was strong enough, that I would not give in when life seemed to be conspiring against me. I learned to appreciate the beauty in everyday life so much more. I spent the best, freest, happiest years of my life after my life had seemingly fallen apart.

Today, I truly remembered all of that. I realized that I am hiding from work in much the same way that I was hiding from school. I realized that I have been given another opportunity to stand strong and chose to live - to really live - and to not hide from anything.

I cannot change what I have done today - what I have been doing for the past several weeks - any more than I can change that I didn't go to all of those classes I failed. I cannot change that my husband has left me anymore than I can change that I have Graves Disease.

But I can change how I can move forward. I can choose to remember who I really am, to decide to face my future and work with what I do have.

Interestingly enough, when I was recovering from Graves Disease, I did it alone. My husband (then boyfriend) was overseas. My family was there in the background, but could not truly help me. I had my friends, but they could not do anything except remind me how to be happy.

I survived that, and I will survive this. I don't know what will happen, but I know in the end that life goes on, and if we are observant, we see that life is beautiful in any case.

I did not allow a disease to determine the course of my life, and I will not allow my husband's choice to determine it either.

I was so angry with him, and it is so easy to fall into that anger again, but in the end, he is a human being just like me. Just like me, he is confused and lost. And just like me, he has to find his own path.

I miss him still. Sometimes, I miss him so deeply that I feel I cannot continue. But the truth is, I can. And I will.

And so will he.

Only God knows whether we are meant to continue together or apart, but what I do know is that we must continue.

I am tired of being tired. I am tired of feeling lost. I am tried of being angry. I am tired of being sad. I am tired of trying to look back on my life and decipher every moment through this new lens. The moments we had held there own value at the time, and I do not want to allow the present to diminish the past or taint the future.

I hope that all of us can find some peace, some quiet, and that in those moments we can remember who we truly are.

Love,
~Nas
_________________________
"Don't dream it. Be it."

First
Second

Me: 26
WAH: 27
T/M: 11/4

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#1679764 - 12/23/08 01:41 PM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: Nasmat]
SingleDad Offline
Member

Registered: 08/11/08
Posts: 365
Loc: Western New York
Good words of wisdom - stay strong!!!
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Me:40 / W:33 / D:3
T:7.5/M:4
D Day: 1/24/08
Legal Separated: 6/12/08
BF who sleeps over: confirmed 11/10/08
Suspect BF pre-dates D Day

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http://tinyurl.com/Second-thread
http://tinyurl.com/Third-thread


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#1679771 - 12/23/08 01:47 PM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: SingleDad]
spellfire Offline
Member

Registered: 12/01/08
Posts: 812
Loc: USA
Nas,

This sounds really good for you. I am hopeful that this is a turning point for you, much like I experienced. I was so messed up and then I just reached a point where I had had enough. That point was the lowest point for me, but when I made the decision to work on me instead of focusing on my WAS, I started the climb out of the hole I was in.

You have picked yourself up and come back stronger before, you can do it again!
_________________________
Spellfire aka Mike

"Women do not like controlling men. They respect and are attracted to men who control themselves. They ultimately are repelled by men who allow themselves to be controlled." -S&A

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#1679887 - 12/23/08 04:20 PM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: spellfire]
Nasmat Offline
Member

Registered: 12/01/08
Posts: 250
Loc: Georgia
Thanks so much, Spellfire and Single Dad! I don't know if this is so much my turning point as a pivot in the right direction, but I know deep down that I just have to keep moving that way.

I am still deeply, deeply sad. I am feeling like I really miss him again, but I have to keep reminding myself that the person I'm missing isn't here right now. As much as I feel like I just want to talk to him or see him, I have to keep remembering that the person I miss has checked out.

Maybe he'll return one day, but then again maybe he won't. I keep repeating over and over that the best thing I can do is to do things for myself and in doing so find happiness within - only then will I feel better.

It's so easy to dwell on what feels like missed opportunities. I want so badly to prove that things can be better, and I think part of that has to do with my desire to "fix" all of the things I am angry at myself for. I regret never going camping with him, never going on a motorcycle ride, never letting any of his things have a place in our home. I regret being opposed to having a family. I regret not stepping up to the plate when it came to sharing household duties.

But, since I can't change those things now, I just have to focus on finding a new way.

Sometimes, all of this still feels like a bad dream. But it's not. It is life, and sh*tty circumstance doesn't have to yield sh*tty results.

Onward, onward. I have a prayer group meeting tonight, and I'm anxious for it.

I keep telling myself that I'm not giving up. I'm going on.

And I've decided not to hire the Private Investigator. It won't do me any good anyways, and the last thing I need to do is feed my negativity.

~Nas
_________________________
"Don't dream it. Be it."

First
Second

Me: 26
WAH: 27
T/M: 11/4

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#1680029 - 12/23/08 08:24 PM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: Nasmat]
marriedCrazy Offline
Member

Registered: 09/06/08
Posts: 2105
Quote:
And I've decided not to hire the Private Investigator. It won't do me any good anyways, and the last thing I need to do is feed my negativity.


Or needlessly spend me that can otherwise be spent on GAL...

Hang in there Nas..Praying for you!!

Tom
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#1680286 - 12/24/08 09:08 AM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: marriedCrazy]
Nasmat Offline
Member

Registered: 12/01/08
Posts: 250
Loc: Georgia
Thanks so much, Tom! The prayers are needed. And you're right - why waste money on a PI when I can use it to do things that will actually make me feel good about myself.

So, today is not going so well so far. I didn't go into work. I woke up feeling more sick, and it didn't seem like a good idea to go in. I tend to get pneumonia this time of year, so I have to be careful.

Of course, I still feel guilty, and there's a little nagging bird in my head that keeps saying that maybe I should have gone in, that maybe this cold is just an excuse. Got into an argument with a friend/coworker about it this morning. She's the kind of person that never gets sick, and she's really unempathetic about this sort of thing. I got the lecture I always get from her about needing to come in, I never work, etc - (which is total BS; I haven't been working much lately, but I worked my a** off for YEARS). I hung up on her. Now she's pissed because I was supposed to help her with a project today, and I'm not coming in. Just what I need - another reason to feel sh*tty.

I keep rationaliaing that I was only going to be at work for 4 hours today, and that it's really not worth feeling sicker and having to commute an hour each way.

Dammit, I probably am making excuses. Bloody hell.

I'm supposed to go stay with my parents tonight. I really don't want to, although I figure staying in this house by myself probably won't be any better.

I had another horrible nightmare last night. I dreamt that my H and I were ML - everything was so real. His scent, his voice, the sensations - everything. But it wasn't him now. It was him as he looked two years ago. Somehow in the middle, he ended up confessing that he's been sleeping with two other girls at various points in our R. Somehow, I ended up being introduced to them. In the dream, they weren't allthat pretty, and I remember being really annoyed with him more than angry, etc. They were both girls that worked at gas stations on the way to his dad's place. I remember asking him what I needed to do to improve our sex life, and he gave me little pointers - told me to say things like, "You're doing a great job." It was really strange. I had the sensation while dreaming that he was sleeping beside me.

And then I woke up, and it hit me. He was gone. He wasn't coming back. I would never feel those things again.

It hit me like a ton of bricks and I sobbed and sobbed and pleaded with God.

I feel, once again, as though I cannot keep going. I have no energy for anything. I feel as though I've been swallowed by all of this. I feel as though I've dug a hole, been tossed into in, and now I'm just waiting and waiting for the dirt to fall over me so I can hide.

I keep having to resist the urge to ask him to come over and hang out. I will not call him, dammit. I'm fairly positive that he'll be alone in his place tonight. I don't see him spending the night at his dad's. Maybe he's spending it with the slut, but in all honesty, I don't think so. I'm willing to bet that this girl has family, and in my mind's eye, he's by himself.

Ah well, whichever is the case, Christmas is shaping up to be a nightmare.

~Nas
_________________________
"Don't dream it. Be it."

First
Second

Me: 26
WAH: 27
T/M: 11/4

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#1680498 - 12/24/08 01:54 PM Re: Nasmat - #2 [Re: Nasmat]
spellfire Offline
Member

Registered: 12/01/08
Posts: 812
Loc: USA
Hi Nas,

Just stopping in to let you know I'm thinking of you during this difficult time. Hang in there. If you are sick it's probably best not to go in. That's how my W got pneumonia, by pushing herself too hard when she should have been resting.

Please do some nice things just for you this Christmas, you deserve it.

SF
_________________________
Spellfire aka Mike

"Women do not like controlling men. They respect and are attracted to men who control themselves. They ultimately are repelled by men who allow themselves to be controlled." -S&A

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