How to know if it is time to let go for real??

[Silver Fox]

Hi Kristi,

I was not going to post this holiday as I'm out of town but I just had to peek to see how everyone is doing.

I'm so sorry you had a rough time tonight. We have all done this backsliding thing - the DR book says to expect it. But there is a valuable lesson in it each time it happens.

All the advice says that the WAS will have to hit rock bottom before realizing their mistakes, but I believe the LBS has to hit rock bottom first in order to be the stronger person for the WAS.

You will at some point have an "awakening". It may be tonight or it might take a few more caving episodes. Mine was last August - 15 months after my H moved out and a whole year after finding out about the OW.

We were also on the phone and I just lost it, I started hyperventalating and my H couldn't get me to calm down. He drove as fast as he could from his apartment 45 minutes away.

He sat with me until 3 in the morning and at one point said "You can stop crying now, I'll come back, I can't be responsible for ruining your life". I was happy for about 5 seconds until I realized this was not how I wanted him back and only his guilt was making him say this - not his true feelings.

Anyway point being, the next day I had a Scarlette O'Hara moment - you know in Gone With the Wind, when she says "As God as my witness, I will never go hungry again"? Well mine was "As God as my witness, H will NEVER see me like that again! I will fight for my M but I WILL NOT plead, cry, or grovel anymore".

Pick yourself up and dust yourself off Kristi. If the other way worked they would all come home, h*ll, they wouldn't even leave!

Tell your H to stay away and not call for awhile until you are stronger. YOU decide when you will talk with him again.

I'll be thinking of you - Stay Strong.

[Tawnya]

{{{Kristi}}} I am from the same "old school" of acting like you talked about and feeling exactly how you felt..when I saw that your hub was laughing at you on the phone and saying you were irrational, the "old me" wanted to rise up right there and I probably would have defended myself..so I need to remind myself of that button should my hub push it LOL!

Don't don't DON'T beat yourself up over what is done..it's done, can't be changed/fixed/or taken away..just learn from it, realize that, as much as I hate to admit it, because I am the world's WORST/BEST (however you wanna look at it LOL) caller/pursuer/fixer/one more sentence would make him see what the deal is/etc type person you could meet..but now..I don't call my hub unless it's absolutely necessary..today was the first time I've actually CALLED him (to find out if he could meet us for dinner) and talked to him on the phone in probably about a month..I've texted him a time or two..but, if you knew me, and it sounds like you do LOL, then know that I know how hard it is to just shut our mouths and to let things go..

Besides, in all honesty, at least in my case, and sounds like in yours, I realized that I don't like ME when I do that..I get worked up and upset and then feel like crap when I'm done and what did I accomplish? Nothing at all..so it's just not worth it to me..I told hub that a week or 2 ago..I'm like "the old getting angry me is gone, tho I'm sure she'll resurface from time to time"..but I Don't like "that person" anymore..

{{{Kristi}}} for YOUR sanity and peace..try as hard as you can to let "that old you" go..if he wants to "be right", let him, we can't change their thoughts anyway..we can only change US..and YOU are worth changing and becoming a happier YOU!

OK..ramble done

Tawnya

[sandi2]

Hi Kristi, so sorry your holiday was rotten. The first ones are really tough. You have an anniversary coming up and you are already dreading it.....so remember.....make plans to not be alone....stay busy and not dwell on the "date". If you have a friend or relative that will not allow you to call your H.....then ask them to help you just like they would help an addict get through one night without a "fix". I wished you had had somebody with you tonight to stopped you from making that call, but maybe hearing (again) him blaming you while it is all his mistakes.....maybe it will help you resolve to not call him anymore. Have you ever asked a different question? Is there anything you have not asked him that you can think of that you haven't already tried? I doubt it.

Remember what you said back in this post?

I am getting tired of taking all the blame. He blames me for everything. I have sucked it up for the entire year. I have apologized profusly for my behavior yet it has gotten me nowhere. He still seems so injured and yet I was the one who was cheated on. I think the hardest part about going dark and/or detaching is listening to him blame me more even though I recognize it isn't me.

Maybe you need to cut that out and tape it to the phone or someplace you will see it to remind yourself not to cave in. Honey, he is NOT going to change his answer to any question that you throw at him, and it just shows him how needy you are--and that is degrading to you. Don't do that to yourself, okay? You are too good for that! Respect yourself more and believe that you deserve better and to be treated better than what you have received......but it isn't going to happen until you change things.

Let me give you a tip about him calling you on your cell phone when you are in a public place and he pulls the stunt he did calling you about you telling that about his sister and all that stuff. First of all, that should have waved a big red flag to you that a fight was coming on! Surely you know this man well enough by now to realize that. So, just softly tell him that you are in a public place and that you are not going to discuss personal matters like that......and before he can say anything else....tell him good bye and hang up the dang phone. Turn if off b/c he'll be mad as hell and want to reach through that cell to wring your neck.

When he calls you anywhere and starts any of that trash about any of the stuff he pulls (and you should recognize all of it by now), simply tell him that you are not going to discuss it and hang up. Why do you feel that you have to answer to him? He is not your boss! Do you realize that? He is not your father, either. He does not have control over you. Of course he will be furious b/c he wants to have affairs and blame you for the break-up of the M and call you crazy!! So, why waste your breath trying to reason with him? You can't. The sooner you realize that, the sooner you will have peace. Kristi, you are going to learn that "peace" is very valuable and it is worth some lonely holidays and some nights crying your heart out, but if you will stick to what we are telling you......peace and self respect will come and you will begin to feel like a brand new person. I can't tell you enough times how much you are worth more than this and it makes me mad at him to treat you like trash. Don't take any more of his cr@p.......and whoever made you think you had to .....I'd like to knock some of that cr@p out of them. When women have this type of mentality, it is hard to break what was instilled into them.....by somebody. Maybe it was him! But, it is time for a make-over!

I am venting myself now.....and it isn't at you, sweetie pie. As I have said before.....my little sister is married to a bully--and an immature one at that. When I see things that remind me of her stitch.....it gets to me. I just want for her to stand up for herself and stop acting afaird of him. He would think a lot more of her if she would. That is the message i want to get to all women that have this "feeling" they have to cave-in when it comes to clinging to their WAH's who have had affairs on them or been abusive to them. (Sorry, got carried away there.)

Me: I said I do not know who you talked to but I at this point I can not imagine being your best friend. Maybe in the future you and I can be friends but right now I need to do what is best for Me. I hope you understand that. I understand that you are doing what is best for you and I am not bitter or angry.
H: Yes you are..you are very angry and bitter..that is what this is all about...
Me: Think what you need to. I am sorry you feel that way. I hope you see it differently someday. I didn't have a choice in this I am doing what I need to now to move on. I will still communicate with you but it may not be the way YOU want it to be.
H: fine, whatever..(laughing at me)...your crazy..then said..I have nothing left to say then..
M: Goodbye.

Frankly, on that particular call he made.....I thought you handled it very well. If only you would not have caved in and called when you were so lonely and sad and asked him what you could have done differently. Kristi, you are picking up the blame for everything when you do that. Can't you see that? And that is exactly what he wants you to do. He is making you think it is your fault that he had an affair! Stop doing that to yourself, honey.

Okay, so, as you have already been told.....pick yourself up and let's start fresh tomorrow. But, I want to encourage you to really work on some goals about this anniversary date coming up and Christmas b/c those will be your hardest to deal with. Don't you dare be by yourself. Even if all you want to do is burry up under the quilt and cry and you don't want anyone around. People that love you.....understand, and they don't expect you to be the life of the party, but sweetie, you've got to put a lot of effort into trying. Have one person there to stay over night with you who understands you and will help you be strong. Or, you go to somebody else's house and tell them to put a padlock on the phone! If you want to go to the other part of the house and take a "time out"....tell your friend or relative......but my advise it to try to fake your way through those days the best you can. Play loud music.....dance.....sing.....do something that is in the form of "happiness".....nothing sad. No sad Christmas movies! Oh, I hate that! Only watch funny shows. "Family" warm fuzzy movies are NOT what you need right now. You've go to be prepared in advance for these tough days. So, is there anyone that is a good enough friend that would do that for you? Would she just spend the night at your house? I mean, have somewhere to go and something to do, etc., but eventually you have to go back to that house.....right? That's what I'm talking about. Don't leave the house dark. Have a lamp or two on, so when you enter-- the darkness won't hit you and shout "empty" at you. It helps a little. I wished there was some place you could go that would be totally away and different.......that is what helps when you lose a member of the family......do something that is different than you always did before. Kind of like starting a new tradition b/c it helps the pain of the loss during the holidays. But, when a couple is co-parenting......that is a hurdle to cross whenever any even arises.

I think that is where I am stuck. I don't know if it was so much validating his feelings and his desire to leave the M, or me pinpointing that he left the M and I didn't. That is how I felt anyway. So why it sounded good, I wonder myself what I was really trying to do. I want to validate and be calm and try not to let my emotions get the best of me.

For one thing what you were feeling was a good dose of self esteem kicking in.....and about time, I'd say. You know.....I'm not so sure I would focus on valadating his feelings at this point. IMHO, I think droping the rope would have a better affect on him b/c he needs an awakening b/c he is just going to continue to blame you and it is just going to be a ya-ya back and forth getting you nowhere (except cheeseless tunnels) until one of you lose their temper enough to end up in D court. However, if you do drop the rope....(that means turning him lose and moving on with your life).....you've got to stick to it and if you can't detach yet.....don't drop the rope. Dropping the rope does not mean you want a divorce! It means that you are going to live your life to please YOU and you cannot control him. You want your M to work, but if he choses to get a D, then you won't stop him. That is dropping the rope that you are holding to b/c you are afraid of losing him. As it has been said.......what do you have now?

I thought about you and the other girls here today. I thought about so many that were hurting b/c of broken homes. We are here to support you and help you any way that we can. Our priority is to try to help people learn how to bust a divorce, but the first priority is taking care of you and your children. Kristi.......get a life. Enjoy each day and make the most of it with what you have to deal with. Make you goals and work toward them every day getting stronger and stronger until you can do anything. You will feel like Superwoman.......or Scarlett O'Hara. BTW, one of my favorite characters b/c she had so much spunk. She was a spoiled brat.....but I still liked her.

Focus getting through January 1st, 2009. Then you will find yourself in a better place b/c you will have come through some tough tests.

Take care. I'll keep you in my prayers.

Sandi

[sandi2]

BTW, please don't any of you be offended if I call you "sweetie". I am not trying to talk "down" to you like a child. That is a pet name i started using a long time ago for people I care about.


Sandi

[Kristi R]

Sandi,

No offense by the "sweetie"..Thanks again for all your wisdom.

I promise to read and re-read your posts daily to keep me inspired. Today I am still just very emotionally raw. Maybe because of the conversation/fight H and I had last night. Maybe b/c I am really feeling the sense of loss right now. Not really sure. All I know is I was starting to feel good about myself and the detaching and now I just feel really sad and lost.

You are correct I don't think I will ever get a different answer from him. I don't know what I was looking for. Maybe I had just hoped to hear some kind of pain in his voice yesterday which would have made me feel like he still cared. But I should have/and do know better.

So many of you on here have been such an inspiration. I just wish in those moments I had you in my living room so you could just smack me and take my phone away!!!

have a great day.

[VeronicaV]

Kristi,

I think it is normal to feel sad and lonely as we detach. Afterall, we do not want to have to detach from someone we love. Maybe, if you just expect the emotions and let yourself feel them, it will help you to stop acting on them in ways that are not good for you.

My new pact with myself is that everytime I feel like crying or letting myself feel down, I will allow the feeling but then I have to do something positive for myself. I have chosen running/working out because of the endorphines. Try it, if you have not already. It really helps.

Beth

[sandi2]

Kristi, honey, I wished I could just have you sitting here next to me and let me put my arms aound you like I was your adopted mama b/c I know you are hurting so badly. It is worse than surgery without being put to sleep, isn't it? Baby, I have to tell you that I have never lost anyone that I loved....except in death, but I think this would be some type of "living death" where the pain seems like it won't go away. You said it all by the raw emotions you feel. It's too much. I want so badly to help you and give you some kind of strength and encouragement to hang on and know that a better day is coming. I think that if you talked to some others that have been where you are sitting that they could help you more than me. I can try to understand and I can hurt b/c you are hurting and I want it to stop for you. I want you to get mad and to do all kinds of things...that I want you to do....but that is me, not you. I realize that sweetie. I hope I have not been too hard on you. I am going to check on a couple of people to see if they are around and maybe send them your way....if you don't mind b/c you need to hear from a LBW today.....not an almost WAW.

Hang tight. I'm going to look for some troops!
Sandi

[Kristi R]

Beth and Sandi.

Thank you so much...

I would very much appreciate any additonal advise or help.

(Beth)...I have done the working out thing...honestly I haven't done it much lately because I have been so down and its cold out and I am running my kids around so much that I haven't taken the extra time for myself, but when H was home more I did go to gym all the time. Now it just seems impossible to fit in schedule w/ kids activities.

Sandi...I wish you were here too. I could have used a big hug. I wish I could get mad and STAY mad. It seems when I do get mad I do okay. But the anger quickly fades and sadness takes over and then I give in and call H. I do try to remind myself of what he did, but I always reason it away, with well he was hurting too., or I wasn't there for him when he needed me. I think in my year of going to therapy and reading so many books I have learned A LOT about why my H acts the way he does and did what he did and that is why it is so hard to stay angry at him. I want so bad to "fix" it for him. To try and get him to see what I see. For him to see that he needs to get help and that he can not react the way he does when he is hurting. Because I tend to know that he "acts out" and closes up emotionally instead of letting out his feelings and talking I have tried to force him to do it because I thought that if he learned what I have learned over this past year, then we could save our M together.

I have told him over and over that we will never forget the hurt but it will go away and that together we could work on it and that there are so many resources available to us. That is where I get sooooo FRUSTRATED because I am not asking him to agree with my feelings just want him to see that life can be better and that walking away and giving up is NOT the answer.

This is where all our arguments stem from. HE is so intelligent when it comes to work. The most ambitious driven person I know. But interpersonal relationships he sucks. I just don't get that. And I know I have spent so much time trying to make him get it, and it hasn't worked. I just feel like if I give up there will be so much regret and that will be worse than if I keep fighting for it.

I guess I don't know how to fight for it, without fighting with him anymore. I think somewhere I lost all rationally there. It seems that either I walk away and do not communicate and feel like I am giving up, or I fight and try to make a point (which I know he doesn't get)...I just hoped he would but at least I feel like I am fighting for my M. How messed up is that thought process????? Do what is right and that makes me feel like I am giving up, do what is wrong and I know I am pushing him further away but I feel like I am more productive in fighting for my M?????

I dont' get it?????????????????????

[Kristi R]

Sandi...

Just hit me...everything that you do for me and all the others on this board, in trying to wake us up and realize what is going on...is kinda what I have spent months doing with my H. Differnece being we are all looking for help, he wasn't. I was forcing my help on him and he didn't/doesn't want to hear it at least not from me. That actually kept song and dance going and going and going...all the way to the lawyer!!!!!!

I wish I could send you to him...!!!!!!

[AlexEN]

Ironically, I wish Sandi could spend some time with my WAW, too! She, Sandi, has a good head on her shoulders (even though she comes from the dark side!).... ;->