Thanks JJ for giving me an opportunity to "think out loud" about these issues. As I post my responses to your questions I can't help but wonder what my answers might be a month from now as I know that they would have been different a month ago....but here it goes! "How SURE are you about things that are going to happen?"
I'm not SURE at all. Often the frame of mind I'm in at any time of the day OR the day itself sways my confidence or feelings of doubt.
"How much do you rely on the past, and the present, to predict the future? Especially about the "negative" things?"
I tend to rely of "past" performance to predict the future. I'm afraid I'm very "stuck" in the recent painful past. Because my H had and A (two short lived PAs in fact) that I discovered before the 1st of the year....that knowing how easily he was able to deceive me makes me very very leery to believe anything he says anymore.
"How would you see the situation you're in from an outsider's point of view? What if you were a third-party looking at the events that are going on in your life? How might you see things differently?"
As others have responded, I think if I were an "outsider" to this...the easy answer would be to say...don't look back, he'll never be worth it. And I must admit, sometimes I DO believe that myself.
"What advice would you give to you? How well would you take that advice?!"
Funny, but I would "advise" someone else in the same sit. that I'm in, that if they truly love their S, that they should try to work through this tumultous time.
"If there was no past history to taint your views of the possibilities of things that could happen in the future, what might things look like?"
Without the tainted past...I'd say the possibilities of happiness were limitless.
"If you were to put aside the "fact" that everything your partner is doing is meant to hurt you, what other possible explanations for some of their individual behaviors might you be able to come up with?"
Having read the DR book and others, I'd say that he's scared, confussed, and lost in a MLC.
What areas of your relationship might" it be helpful to "take off your blinders", and see things from a different perspective?"
I have already realized through all this pain and introspection that As don't happen in a vaccuum. That my distancing etc. contributed to the process that helped set up the "excuses/justifications" that he needed to go outside the M to meet his emotional/physical needs. BUT I also realize that throughout our 25 yrs together, I was the one that was always taking the "temperature" of our relationship and always attempting to be the "fixer." He didn't share his thoughts or feelings so I was always in the "dark"....I got tired of trying to keep/make him happy and so I gave up...
"What does that dot that the teacher drew on the blackboard represent to you?!"
Infinity
"What would your answer be to the "miracle question"? Your answer to how things COULD be, instead of the way that they are?"
My miracle would be a totally honest, monogomous relationship, where there would be no place for a secret life. Where we would be each others best friend and confidant again.
"If you were to start things over from scratch, with a clean slate, what would your relationship be like? What would YOU be doing to help lead it into the right direction?"
I would take an interest in the things he enjoys (MC riding/fishing/boating) discussing the news (local and international). I would "lighten up" a bit and learn not to second guess him or read into what he says looking for ulterior or duplicitous motives. I would remember that life's to short to take the people you love for granted. I would remember that no one OWES me their love, I have to nuture it and respect it.
JJ - I saw those two items that you highlighted from PNT and they really hit me between the eyes.
My mom often says, "The best predictor of the future is the past."
If I were to take this to heart, our M would have been over a long time ago. In my sitch, W has been married twice before. In the past, her ways for dealing with marital strife have been to put minimal effort into resurrecting the R, complain to whomever would listen about how H doesn't get it and find someone else.
I will say to W's credit, she hasn't headed for the hills yet. But she has admitted in C sessions that she feels stuck and hopeless that things will never get better between us. I know that I cannot change her mind about things - but I can influence by choosing how I live my life.
"If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got."
For me, it has been very tough to keep the changes going on my part since I tend to focus on the big things missing from our R instead of making note of the "little things." I often feel like I'm spinning my wheels in a mud bog.
So many of us here can understand how tough it must be for you right now. The emotional roller-coaster ride is so hard to deal with, and takes us to places where we don't want to be. I'm glad that you're here with us, and not trying to do this all alone.
I, for one, do believe that there is hope for your situation. The biggest part of this belief comes from the fact that you ARE here, and that you're willing to learn more about what YOU can do to help make your relationship better. This, to me, is a good sign!!
As you're going through this process, please be sure to try to not beat yourself up about things you may not have realized before. Take good care of yourself, and know that even though there are going to be ups-and-downs, you're heading towards the right direction.
A vacation to the Bahamas sounds great! It might help your spirits out immensely!!
Instead of being alone, can you take all of us with you?!
JJ
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I, for one, really admire your patience! It can be really tough for other people on the outside of the situation to understand. I know that before everything hit in my situation, my opinion on what I would and wouldn't do, and put up with, was quite a bit different than it is now!!
I think that your thoughts of your H being confused might be closer to the truth than the "not caring" possibility. At least for now, that line of thinking will give you more possible solutions to work with.
Keep in mind that as you're working through your program, his confusion isn't going to go away overnight. In fact, as you're making your changes, he may become even MORE confused, but in a different, and better way. You will be blowing away his images of the person he left, and replacing them with images of the person he might just want to stay with. This will be good!
He won't be certain that these changes are permanent until he sees them consistently over a period of time. So, what you need to do is to concentrate on keeping these changes going, and to keep his curiousity peaked about just what's come over this girl!!
Be confident that he will notice, even though he doesn't see you much. It's surprising how much they can find out about, how much they notice, even when you're apart. And, if all goes according to plan, you'll have more chances to show yourself to him more often in the near future, right?!
JJ
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I DEFINITELY think that starting to pursue some more outside interests and activities would be a GREAT place to start!
It's so hard to see what to do at times when we get too wrapped up in the situation. Getting out, "getting a life", and doing things to help "re-create" ourselves is often just what the doctor ordered!
Stepping beyond your roles of wife and Mom, doing things for yourself sometimes instead of always for other, might be what it takes to get your big changes started. It might be what it takes for him to stand up, and take notice of you, and what he may be missing out on if he doesn't stick around!
Got any ideas on where to start this? What are some of your hobbies or interests? Things you've always wanted to do, but have just never taken the time for?
JJ
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I know how tough your situation is for you right now. With your H in the midst of a substance abuse problem, it can seem almost impossible to effectively work your DB'ing program. However, I think that you're starting on the right track!
Although there's not a lot you can do to force him to take care of this problem, what you can do is to keep making your relationship together a place to where he might want to come back to. Some place that's safe, and healthy.
This doesn't have to mean that you turn your back and just ignore his drug problems, and accept everything that he's doing. This wouldn't be healthy for either of you. On the other hand, it doesn't mean that you have to ignore, or not accept, him.
We would have a loving, trusting relationship, free from adultery. I would help this by giving my H what he needs, and help lead him toward my needs being met.
I think you're well on your way of being able to see what it will take to make this happen. Your working towards this, learning what it might take to make this happen, will be the most important thing that you can do to help lead him towards the path of recovery.
Hang in there, I know it's tough, but remember that we're all here to help you keep going when you need it!
JJ
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JJ~ You are AWESOME to respond to each of us with such positive advice. Thanks for starting this discussion--I think we will all learn alot!!!!
I want to point out a theme I am seeing from many of these posts. We have all (in different ways) learned how to "care for" a M now. I know that I have learned so much about what I could have done differently to nuture my R with my H and I am ready for a chance to prove that! I know it will take time and I need to have patience! I am glad to have so many people to share this journey!!!
Happiness is like a butterfly: the more you chase it, the more it will elude you, but if you turn your attention to other things, it will come and sit softly on your shoulder.... (thoreau)
I agree w/ Sunseeker! I really appreciate your time and efforts to help each one of us. You really are awesome! I really was looking for this kind of help. I hope I'm on the right track, but I'm hanging in here.
I dropped by to see how this discussion was going. Congratulations on making great use of this BB and kudos to you JJ for leading this discussion and giving supportive and helpful feedback. I will check in from time to time as I have time, and if I think I have two cents to add, will do so.
Hang in there everybody. Its easy to become discouraged and give up hope. But we each have the power to make things change a little by changing ourselves a little - the way we think about things, or the way we say things or decide not to speak, the way we do things. Remember that small changes start a process that can change everything in the long run. Patience and trust in the process helps. There's lots of support here. Keep your own goals in mind and stay on track for yourself. Don't say or do anything that will have a negative effect on your goal, even if it feels justified. And take care of yourselves. If you are stressed, do some exercise or take a walk or something so you can do this tough DR work.
Good luck.
Dotty Divorce Busting Coach Contact The Divorce Busting Center at 815-337-8000 or 800-664-2435 if you would like to schedule a telephone consultation with Dotty - or email virginia@divorcebusting.com for info.
