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How SURE are you about things that are going to happen?

How much do you rely on the past, and the present, to predict the future? Especially about the "negative" things?

How would you see the situation you're in from an outsider's point of view? What if you were a third-party looking at the events that are going on in your life? How might you see things differently?

If you were to read your story on the board like it was someone else's thread, what would you post to yourself? What advice would you give to you? How well would you take that advice?!

If there was no past history to taint your views of the possibilities of things that could happen in the future, what might things look like?

If you were to put aside the "fact" that everything your partner is doing is meant to hurt you, what other possible explanations for some of their individual behaviors might you be able to come up with?

What areas of your relationship might it be helpful to "take off your blinders", and see things from a different perspective?

What does that dot that the teacher drew on the blackboard represent to you?!

What would your answer be to the "miracle question"? Your answer to how things COULD be, instead of the way that they are?

If you were to start things over from scratch, with a clean slate, what would your relationship be like? What would YOU be doing to help lead it into the right direction?

Now, empty your minds, and let's begin!!!


JJ

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One area in which I had to "take off my blinders" was in dealing with my wife's depression problems. I got so wrapped up in the "diagnosis", that I had a tendency to lay this to blame for all of our problems. I was SURE that once we "fixed" this problem, all of our other problems would simply just go away.

I found that I focused so much of my attention around this, that I wasn't able to take a good look at other possible solutions to what was going on. In fact, putting all my attention on this just made matters worse for her. And us.

It took a counselor I was seeing quite a few whacks upside my head with a 2x4 to make me see things differently! Once I took the focus off of my wife's depression, and put the focus back on taking care of myself, and some other areas that I could do something about, a shift began to take place. I began to feel better, my wife began to feel better, and her episodes of her gray times became less severe, and less frequent.

Life is much better now, but I do still have stop myself at times, and remind myself to not be so "sure" about what I "know"! To take a step back to look at things from a different point of view, and be able to see different possibilities.


JJ

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Quoting Jamesjohn:
How SURE are you about things that are going to happen?
AT this point I am not very sure about anything. OUr sitch is new (less than 2 mos.) and I'm still trying to sustain hope.

How much do you rely on the past, and the present, to predict the future? Especially about the "negative" things?

I used to rely heavily on the past to predict the future. Since reading the book, I've realized that these things never worked in the past, but I tended to keep repeating them.

How would you see the situation you're in from an outsider's point of view? What if you were a third-party looking at the events that are going on in your life? How might you see things differently?

As an outsider, I might see myself as a whiner. My first knee-jerk reaction is to tell that girl to just leave the man who is causing her so much pain. If I were a third party who knew the details, I might help that girl to see the things she has done that caused the M to go in the downhill direction.

If you were to read your story on the board like it was someone else's thread, what would you post to yourself? What advice would you give to you? How well would you take that advice?!

At this point, my advice is still skewed in my not-so-beginners mind yet. After reading the book I would advise the girl to work on that 180 a complete 180 and stay positive. I myself have done about a 160 but I am riding an emotional roller coaster most days. One minute he is kind and considerate, the next he is telling me that he sees himself divorced in the next year, that he isn't in love with and he doesn't want to be in love with me. Hope tends to abandon me during these moments.

If there was no past history to taint your views of the possibilities of things that could happen in the future, what might things look like?

With no past history huh? I don't know... I can't get over the past yet, it is still my present.

If you were to put aside the "fact" that everything your partner is doing is meant to hurt you, what other possible explanations for some of their individual behaviors might you be able to come up with?

I realize that he isn't trying to hurt me intentionally. I distinctly feel is upset that he is hurting me and feels to guilty to leave me and our children. He is occasionally fishing for a reason to hate me and justify leaving and sometimes I feel he is trying to encourage me to leave him and ease his guilt by making him the victim. I have told him that I am not angry at him for not loving me, that he couldn't help it. I conceded that he was hurting me badly, but that I was not angry and was not giving up. That earned me a heartfelt hug, but I wonder, was that a hug for easing his conscious or was that emotion? My C thinks I have a bad habit of overanalyzing.

What areas of your relationship might it be helpful to "take off your blinders", and see things from a different perspective?

Between the book and my C, I realized that I was a MAJOR contributing factor over a period of about 10 years. With that long a negative history, I am worried I may not be able to recover him, when he has stated that he does not want to be recovered. I was too motherly, always tempering his overconfident ego about promotions, etc. thinking that I would pad his landing if it fell through (not realizing that it came accross as criticism), I didn't realized that I didn't have fun! I honestly do not remember the last time I had FUN, I've enjoyed things, but not FUN. I had become to serious and responsible and at the same time, tempered the joy in our lives to boredom. Those are just a few of many things, the most severe is my Sexual Dysfunction following the birth of our 11 year old. I kept reminding him 'it was medical condition and marriage is not supposed to be about sex' not realizing that sex is alot of marriage and to him, it turns out, sex is the unifying factor that makes a man feel as though his soul has joined with that women. I never realized that until now - to late. I wish I had know that 11 years ago.

What does that dot that the teacher drew on the blackboard represent to you?!

Right now that dot is a black hole waiting to just suck me into its eternal, neverending agony and blackness.

What would your answer be to the "miracle question"? Your answer to how things COULD be, instead of the way that they are?

Things could be great, if I were given another chance. I worry that all of the 180 changes I am making in myself will not last, I want them to last for me too, but I'm worried that I won't be able to maintain the new position. help!! I don't know where to begin to try to figure out how to have fun? I have no idea what would be fun for me?>??? I'm considering taking a week long vacation ALONE to the Bahamas, is that dumb? Should I do that or will that make our sitch worse?

This was long, but I'm buying into step #1 open heartedly. Take my hand JJ, I need the solid lead
If you were to start things over from scratch, with a clean slate, what would your relationship be like? What would YOU be doing to help lead it into the right direction?

Now, empty your minds, and let's begin!!!

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Quote:

How would you see the situation you're in from an outsider's point of view?

I would say that it looks like I am being overly patient and my H is being a jerk by running away from his problems. Most of friends say they can't believe that I am so "patient" and that he needs to start working on the M. I tend to agree, but then again, I am a little biased...or am I?!

Quote:

If you were to put aside the "fact" that everything your partner is doing is meant to hurt you, what other possible explanations for some of their individual behaviors might you be able to come up with?



I often question my H's motivation for acting like he does. he is hot and cold. I tell myself he is confused. I guess maybe I could be more objective and say he doesn't care anymore, but that hurts too much!

Quote:

If you were to start things over from scratch, with a clean slate, what would your relationship be like?

I would love to start with a clean salte, in fact I have told H that. he doesn't seem to want to do that. he says he can't get emotionally involved. That a big sticking point with him. I have made so many chanegs over the past few months and I have learned so much about myself and how to make a M work. How can he see these changes if he never sees me? I think he has noticed some changes in our brief encounters but how does he know they are permanent?

I am frustrated and would love some guidance!!!


Happiness is like a butterfly: the more you chase it, the more it will elude you, but if you turn your attention to other things, it will come and sit softly on your shoulder.... (thoreau)
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Quoting sunseeker:
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
How would you see the situation you're in from an outsider's point of view?
I would say that it looks like I am being overly patient and my H is being a jerk by running away from his problems. Most of friends say they can't believe that I am so "patient" and that he needs to start working on the M. I tend to agree, but then again, I am a little biased...or am I?!



I fully know what you mean on that point
& have been told the same even by my own children
who are angry that he's unwilling to work on making things better
& for the BS that he's putting us all thru right now
& especially for the affair with the slut from his job
& everyone knows that she's just using him for what she can get out of him
(even the people at work who are beginning to toss rumors around left & tight although he told the job in May that he'd moved back home)


Quoting sunseeker:
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
If you were to put aside the "fact" that everything your partner is doing is meant to hurt you, what other possible explanations for some of their individual behaviors might you be able to come up with?



Hubby is having some serious issues that he needs to face & work out
but instead he's running away from his problems

& in the process creating more with his irresponnsibilty with the money & not paying the bills correctly,
drinking & driving has led to a ticket & Driver Ed class for him to keep his license,
& his job is being affected

so althou he's hurting us his family
he's also hurting his own self
& in the long run it'll be up to him to wake up & smell the coffee...

I see a man/child that knows he's doing wrong,
but he's not sure that he wants to stop or maybe even how...

he's in pain inside that he wants to run away from

he knows that Home is a Safe Place that he can come to
he's hidden out here as well as going to his mom's
but here he turns off the cellphone to "escape" OWhore & friends...

this past month & 1/2 he's been having too much fun in the sun to hide out too much...

but he does know that the door is still open to him
& there are times when I can see that he's NOT having as much fun as he wants to pretend that he is...
he's just NOT ready to Come Home & Miss Out on Something

I need to learn how to better detach from the problems while still being nurturing
when he's here looking for "Safety" & reassurance that someone does still care

I need to get some friends to hang out with in real life & get out of the house & away from the computer...

For 20 yrs I've been Daughter & Son's Mom...
For 11 yrs Hubby's Wife...
I now need my own ID & life

I hate being in LimboLand...
only a few short months & it'll be 1 yr...

I am fighting depression

as I can't understand what happened in June when he was clearly heading homewards

& I only found out this month that
he'd even told the people at work that he was back home
so it was on his mind & not just my imagination on the big babysteps I was seeing...

he's not talking & avoiding his parents as much as possible
I'm trying to give him the space he needs...

but even at this point his Mom is mad at me for not bringing her over to the sluts house to confront hubby
or at least giving her the sluts phone number to let her call for hubby...

I'm feeling beat up on by everyone
for trying to be patient
& I don't know what I should be doing at this point
so all I can do is pray
& spend way too much time here on the board
trying to get a better idea of what i should try/do next

I'm trying to not feel so lost but this is SOOO confusing
what do I do next?

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JJ,
Quote:

How SURE are you about things that are going to happen

I am not sure at all how things will play out in my M.

Quote:

How much do you rely on the past, and the present, to predict the future? Especially about the "negative" things?

I don't think that I am relying too much, one thing you made me think of was that when he left b4 for AW, he did come home, again, eventually. I wake up every day and hope for a new beginning w/ my family and my H, and want to believe that he will never do this to me again, in the future.

Quote:

How would you see the situation you're in from an outsider's point of view? What if you were a third-party looking at the events that are going on in your life? How might you see things differently

I think from an outsider's pov, I might feel like most people have been telling me, that I should get on w/ my life and he should be the one chasing me and begging for my forgiveness, but I guess nothing would change, then, and I do want my M to work and I want to have a loving R w/ him, so I am trying to hang in there.

Quote:

If you were to read your story on the board like it was someone else's thread, what would you post to yourself? What advice would you give to you? How well would you take that advice?!

I think I'd be afraid to touch it w/ a 10-ft pole! I don't think I have enough DB experience to be a helpful advisor, so I probably wouldn't advise anything, just try to be comforting to this person.

Quote:

If there was no past history to taint your views of the possibilities of things that could happen in the future, what might things look like?

It depends on how much past history you delete. Myself, I guess I would go back to when I was in nursing school, and realize that my H felt neglected when I studied so much. I would give him the attention he needed and encouraged him to promote w/ his job. (He felt I held him from promoting.) I would have given him my time more freely and tried to worry less about school, so he never would have confided in and ultimately had his first A. Now we might have been a very close, loving family that enjoyed each other as much as we did when we met.

Quote:

If you were to put aside the "fact" that everything your partner is doing is meant to hurt you, what other possible explanations for some of their individual behaviors might you be able to come up with?

He's on drugs, he's having a MLC, he's confused about what he wants in life and he can't make up mind, he's possibly a sex-addict, he's scared.

Quote:

What areas of your relationship might it be helpful to "take off your blinders", and see things from a different perspective?

When I asked for quality time, I would do all the things you shouldn't do to try to get it from him. Why he's having an A. His perspective on money-spending habits.

Quote:

What does that dot that the teacher drew on the blackboard represent to you?!

An infinite list of possibilities.

Quote:

What would your answer be to the "miracle question"? Your answer to how things COULD be, instead of the way that they are?

I could give to my H more freely, and he could give to me and Ss unconditional love freely, and spend quality time w/ us and be a faithful, devoted H, free of drugs. I wouldn't be critical of him or have learned to be disbelieving in what he says or does.

Quote:

If you were to start things over from scratch, with a clean slate, what would your relationship be like? What would YOU be doing to help lead it into the right direction?

We would have a loving, trusting relationship, free from adultery. I would help this by giving my H what he needs, and help lead him toward my needs being met.

Hope

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My mom often says, "The best predictor of the future is the past."

So, I need to go a step beyond looking at my situation from an outsider's viewpoint.

I find I need to wipe the slate completely clean and pretend that my husband and I just started dating over the past year that we've been separated.

If we are dating, several of my actions become ridiculous.

Me pushing him to hurry up and move in with me.
Me pushing myself and him to begin having sex again.

Instead, I'd be doing my best to draw him closer and being the patient, kind, and understanding girlfriend. And I'd definately not be expecting anything from him as our relationship was so new.

Hugs.


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Wow, we're off to a really great start here!! These are some very thoughtful, very insightful posts so far!

Remember to feel free to give feedback to each other back and forth. Doing so will help us all gain the most from participating.

Great job so far!! Let's keep going!!!


JJ

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What actions could we do to be in a beginners mind?

What drew them to us to begin with? As Phx says what could get us to draw them in?

For me it was little things, like Thank you for taking me out last night. Or small gifts like chocolate.

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My mom often says, "The best predictor of the future is the past."

You know, pnt, your mom isn't totally off base here.

Often, by looking at things from an outsider's point of view, we can see patterns of behavior between couples. First he does this, next she'll do that, then he responds by doing this thing, etc. etc., on and on.

There are many parts of our lives, and what we do in our relationships, that are VERY predictable, and where the outcomes will be fairly certain. So, looking at it this way, she is very correct.

"If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got"

This is where the power of DB, the power of change, really comes into play.

If we can "start with a beginner's mind", look at things the way they could be, instead of the way we perceive them to be, we can begin to see some different solutions. We can get a clearer view of what WE may be doing that is contributing to these predictions being fulfilled, and change OUR dance steps from there.

I think that this is why clearing our minds of "what we KNOW" is the first step. A step that should not be skipped. Until we can do this, we can easily fall prey to repeating our patterns of behavior, which makes it tough to get the needed changes to start rolling. AND, to KEEP them going.


JJ

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