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#1849842 - 10/04/09 08:28 AM Re: The Four Phases of SSM Recovery [Re: Spinaltap13]
Margali Offline
Member

Registered: 06/11/09
Posts: 56
Loc: Virginia
OK, I see that I need to read SSM and pay attention to the four phases that Bagheera talks about.

Just like somebody here said - I'm trying to do phase 3 first. I need to start w/ phase 1, then go to phase 2.

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#1862993 - 10/27/09 11:38 AM Re: The Four Phases of SSM Recovery [Re: Margali]
SillyOldBear Offline
Member

Registered: 06/13/08
Posts: 538
Loc: Midwest
I think we've reached Phase 4.

A good example was the other night. We had a long night after a long day, and I wanted to make love (because I had a long night after a long day.) She didn't (because she'd had a long night after a long day.) I persisted, we did it, and it was terrible. We were out of condoms, then we got frustrated, then she tried to start a lawnmower by yanking on my handle. I stopped her and we went to sleep unsatisfied.

The next day, I told her I was sorry I'd insisted, that we should have waited. She told me she was sorry she hadn't paid attention to what she was doing and what I was feeling. We talked about how we both felt guilty about what had happened, and we reassured each other. That night we had plenty of condoms . . . she'd picked up a box on the way home, and so had I. That night was as great as the night before was lousy.

The sex was great, but the point was that we talked to each other and worked it out so that everything worked out for us in the end. That's what I always wanted.
_________________________
Recovering Sex-Starved Husband.

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#1927878 - 02/01/10 09:01 AM Re: The Four Phases of SSM Recovery [Re: SillyOldBear]
goldeylox Offline
Member

Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 1518
Loc: OR
OK, so this might be a question for DQ.
I spent many years on stage 2. And I finally wised up and filed for D (for the second time) last week. We have a long history of domestic violence. I have left our home and started over in a new apartment.
We're Catholic, so that's kind of a big deal (divorcing, that is). STBX Hus is a strong willed Italian.
Since turning 40, I've had sex with my STBX exactly once. I find him repulsive, thus the D. sick
Meanwhile, Goldey has gotten some therapy, and is getting antsy. Actually, really antsy. I think I went from LD to HD in about 3 months. I feel like a 16 yo boy in a 41 yo woman's body. Some might say desperate. Trusty toys just aren't cutting it.
Technically still married, although emotionally De-Married for quite some time (I figure going on about 4 years) and the paperwork is just a formality.
Thank God, there are no third parties involved, although I do enjoy flirting when there are good boundaries. [deleted something I didn't mean to share], and it freaked me out. Won't be doing that again. shocked I certainly don't want to be a homewrecker.
Advice? I'm a bit bashful/private about sex, be gentle. When the booze shows up, I can get a bit rowdy, so I'm off the juice right now.


Edited by goldeylox (02/01/10 09:03 AM)
_________________________
Me:44, WAW hx bi-polar H:48, hx of abuse
S:22, S:19, D:16
Filed Oct 08, dismissed
Filed again Jan 10, dismissed
Now Piecing
alter persona: SuperBoots

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#1930355 - 02/04/10 02:04 AM Re: The Four Phases of SSM Recovery [Re: goldeylox]
DanceQueen Offline
Member

Registered: 03/25/08
Posts: 1566
goldy...I guess I missed it but, where is the question in your post? Or maybe you are just wondering, is it normal to go from LD to HD seemingly overnight?

I can make a statement about that from my history, if it helps. When I was married before, it seemed that I was the LD spouse and my ex-h was the HD spouse. But after a divorce, a new husband, and a lot of reflection, I think now that I was actually always HD, I just didn't have lust or desire to have sex with my ex-h. For a while I thought that my getting older (I am about your age) was also contributing to my HD, and that could be true, and of course I figured the fact that I am extremely attracted to my current H and getting all my needs met also contribute to my HD. But when I really examine the truth, I know that I was always HD, I just didn't want to have sex with my ex-h.

Why? Well...there were numerous reasons...sexual attraction was never there (he was the classic nice guy and it turned me off), he wasn't meeting my needs as a husband (I had to do everything, literally everything...medical, kids, financial, major purchases, major decisions, housework, yard work, I was the main breadwinner, everything you can think of in terms of leading a family, including all the involvement with his very large family)...his sexual aptitude was very low...it was just plain all around a dud of a sex life for me. For his part, he felt that all that was needed to have sex was an erection, and since he had one, we should have been getting it on. No matter how I would try to entice him into taking on a bit more in our marriage, some new things in the bedroom, etc...it never seemed to make any difference. I realize now, he is who he is and I should have just loved him for who he was, or left much earlier.

Anyway...so for many years I wondered where the heck my sex drive was...I had remembered having one before being married...where did it go? I was physically attracted to my ex-h and therefore, I wondered why I didn't feel like having sex with him? I think now that I was too naive to understand that physical attraction can be present and still be lacking sexual attraction (and even vice versa).

Soo...I can definitely relate to suddenly feeling your full rush of HD coming on after leaving your H, if your sitch was anything like mine. My ex-h didn't repulse me, per se, I never felt that about him. And once we did get going on sex, I enjoyed it. But I never felt my blood boiling over the way I do now.

Is that what your post is about?

DQ

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#1938307 - 02/14/10 02:52 PM Re: The Four Phases of SSM Recovery [Re: DanceQueen]
ssmguy Offline
Member

Registered: 06/29/09
Posts: 661
Well DanceQueen, in another thread, you mentioned that HD is sometimes more situational for women, and that women sometimes find it a turn-off that men are not so situationally dependent for their sex drives because women would rather feel that it is specific to them, not just sex for the sake of sex. But on the other hand, maybe women do benefit from men's more constant sex drives after all, otherwise, there would be many men who would not want to have sex with their wives because "not everything was right about the relationship". As you wrote:

Originally Posted By: DanceQueen
But when I really examine the truth, I know that I was always HD, I just didn't want to have sex with my ex-h.

Why? Well...there were numerous reasons...sexual attraction was never there (he was the classic nice guy and it turned me off), he wasn't meeting my needs as a husband (I had to do everything, literally everything...medical, kids, financial, major purchases, major decisions, housework, yard work, I was the main breadwinner, everything you can think of in terms of leading a family, including all the involvement with his very large family)...his sexual aptitude was very low...it was just plain all around a dud of a sex life for me. For his part, he felt that all that was needed to have sex was an erection, and since he had one, we should have been getting it on. No matter how I would try to entice him into taking on a bit more in our marriage, some new things in the bedroom, etc...it never seemed to make any difference. I realize now, he is who he is and I should have just loved him for who he was, or left much earlier.


How about if I apply those standards to my wife, reversing the gender on your sentences, "For her part, she felt that all that was needed to have sex was to just lie there", "no matter how I would try to entice her... it never seemed to make any difference"? Too bad my sex drive wasn't vulnerable to these things, or else I could have doubly blamed my wife for my SSM -- not only did she not want sex, she made me not want sex either. And, a third effect, she also made me not want sex with anybody else either!

My question to you, DQ, is how can you let someone have so much power over your sex drive that he not only made you not want sex with him, he ruined your sex drive for anybody else, or even by your solitary self?

So perhaps it's a good thing that HD men are not so situationally dependent? Otherwise, many men would lose their HD after the countless times their situationally-dependent HD wives turn them down for sex. Such vulnerable men would then lose their sex drives after many rejections, making their situationally-dependent-HD wives feel even more rejected. So perhaps a man's sure-fire and constant HD is what is needed to break the spiral, and make a woman feel that a man is more like an "alpha rock" with his sex drive, rather than losing his erection every time a long list of emotional requirements is not in place.

As I've heard it, many women with LD or no-D men feel utterly rejected and envy women who complain jokingly about their eternally-erect husbands chasing them around the house. Sure, some women might feel turned-off by their man's eternal sexual desire because it feels like sex just for the sake of sex, but I think that reaction is more common among women who don't want much sex even under the best of circumstances.

As for the myth men's need for sex for sex's sake, even though my desire for my wife has never been situational, it doesn't mean I'd have much interest in bedding most women. In fact, only a minority of women fit my sexual "type", and I have literally no sexual attraction to most women. But if the woman fits my "type" in terms of both physical attraction, intelligence and personality, than my drive is pretty darn constant regardless of what she's recently said or done, or what time of day it is. In other words, a woman would feel that my sex drive for her is based on her for herself -- exactly what women want to feel -- rather than being based on if she said something insulting to me the day before, i.e., if "my feelings were hurt" and all that kind of wimpy non-alpha stuff.

So it seems to be the eternal double-bind that women sometimes try to put men into. They want them to be emotionally sensitive and vulnerable, but if they show it, they're wimpy and sexually unappealing.

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#1970925 - 03/30/10 05:30 PM Re: The Four Phases of SSM Recovery [Re: ssmguy]
themud Offline
New Member

Registered: 10/12/09
Posts: 13
My question is: Sex is the only thing you can't share with your spouse so I wonder who is actually hurt more the HD or LD? Yes it takes two to tango, but one to reject the other and the dance floor is empty by choice of the rejector.

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#1981987 - 04/14/10 02:31 PM Re: The Four Phases of SSM Recovery [Re: Bagheera]
Young at Heart Offline
Member

Registered: 11/20/09
Posts: 503
Loc: Washington, the State
First I want to thank you for your past support and advise. I found this thread particularly helpful after I changed and started to see progress in the healing of my SSM.

My wife and I met with our sex therapist last night and she told us that in her mind we were "cured."

We have regularly been having sex at least twice a week (I have said I would like it three times a week, but the therapist said to be greatful and accept some degree of compromise) and my wife is giving me signs of non-sexual physical affection regularly.

Similarly, I am working hard to make my wife feel loved by doing things in her languages of love (acts of service/devotion and quality time) every day.

She is much happier and we feel connected to each other. She has forgiven me and is no longer angry at me for things that happened 20+ years ago. We have also learned alot about communications and relationships over the past several months. Most importantly we want to be with each other for the rest of our lives.

I would add to your book list Chapman's the Five Languages of Love (as that was also a real break though in understanding how I had hurt my wife and how she had been telling me every day that she loved me in ways that I couldn't understand.)

As to you request for timing information:

Our marriage hit its low point last summer to the point where I the HD partner stopped having sex with my wife because of the emotional pain and rejection associated with "making love."

Phase 1 (heal yourself): 8/2009- present and future (signed up for a June half marathon and have weight loss and fitness/exercise goals into 2011).
Phase 2 (learn to serve your spouse): 10/2009-2/2010 (still learning and want to learn more as long as I live)
Phase 3 (get spouse on board): 12/2009 - 2/2010
Phase 4 (working together): 1/2010-present

Our board certified sex therapist has helped and told us to stay in touch with an ocassional email, and if we find a problem area to set up another appointment. My wife and I went out to dinner to celebrate and enjoy each other. She told me that we need to periodically pull out the Gottman Art and Science of Love weekend workshop kit and go through some of the expercises every three or four months just to remind each other what we have.

I am a very happy camper and feel more loved and connected to my wife that I have in decades.

I want to thank everyone who gave me advice, suggested things to do or read or gave me some moral support.
_________________________
>40 years of marriage--My wife and I are now closer than we have been in decades. I believe that my SSM is over.

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#1982035 - 04/14/10 03:07 PM Re: The Four Phases of SSM Recovery [Re: Young at Heart]
trying4years Offline
New Member

Registered: 11/24/09
Posts: 19
Loc: USA
Props to you and your wife!!!

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#2194875 - 10/26/11 12:05 AM Re: The Four Phases of SSM Recovery [Re: Bagheera]
tnmom66 Offline
Member

Registered: 09/18/10
Posts: 71
Loc: Tennessee
how do I know what he needs? He is very much admired, appreciated, loved. I ask him what can I do to help him to feel more attracted to me and he says "nothing". I don't smother him, we don't live together or even talk on the phone daily. I don't know what else to do. We have a good relationship otherwise.

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#2399825 - 11/01/13 11:18 AM Re: The Four Phases of SSM Recovery [Re: tnmom66]
sbrass Offline
Member

Registered: 01/22/11
Posts: 56
Loc: Switzerland
Lucky you, young at heart. I've tried it all, ALL, and got nowhere. And if I stay, as I plan to, I have to find some way to accept living in a sex-less or very, VERY low-say marriage. At our last session with our therapist, my wife said clearly that she has no desire for me, that she has no desire to seek for desire. That she has no desire to look elsewhere (she came out to me and to herself in May as a lesbian). That she's happy to offer me hugs, cuddles and kisses. But that she is basically asexual. Time of life, post-menopause, and just no desire. I've been on a pretty desperate search here and elsewhere on the Web. We've both been going to a really good therapist, but she is now stopping, since there seems to be no point. We share many things, have a good life in every department but sex, and we are there united in mourning what neither of us have experienced: the joy of a total giving and receiving in physical love, in sex. I am just the wrong sex for her! But we've decided that we have more to gain than to lose by staying together. We have looked at the options of separation/divorce/an open marriage. Not all stories end happily ever after, and our seems to be one of them.
_________________________
Me: 65, Wife: 67
Married/Together: 34 years!
No children
Wife 'came out' as lesbian in May 2013

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