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#1557755 - 08/14/08 02:28 PM How to start from scratch in 12 Mos Separation ?
SingleDad Offline
Member

Registered: 08/11/08
Posts: 365
Loc: Western New York
I have been posting on other forums for a couple of months now - I thought I'd post on the Divorce Busting forum... I did read this book but not the Divorce Rescue book. Along with many other books and a personal talk w/ Dr. Harley - my chances are so limited as my separation process is too far along.

Here's my story.

W wanted divorce Jan 24 - two months of legal expenses and anguish. Both agreed to go to mediator instead. The legal separation started June 12, assets have been divided, and STBXW bought her own house and moved out June 27 - about 5 miles away. She has her freedom and independence at last.

We have a 2.5yo daughter together and joint shared custody - I get 3 overnights each week, she 4 overnights, including alternate weekends

I've learned since this process started in January, my STBXW the reasons for her actions as she sees it.

1. I could never understand the kind of love she needed (I do now, though not sure if any one could ever satisfy her wants)
2. We were never even friends
3. I never understood her emotional, spiritual, and physical needs. (she never told be what they were - I had to figure it out for myself - Now I understand more after doing a lot of soul searching and spiritual reading)

Despite her current beliefs (she is steadfast in wanting a Divorce)- I think there is a miracle of hope that we can start from scratch and re-build some sort of relationship - maybe not the same as a marriage...

Now that everything is settled and I have given her everything in the process (lump sum to buy a house, child support, freedom, etc). We are now civil/friends for our daughters sake. W never gave a glimmer of hope that divorce isn't emminent 365 days from then.

Despite the fact that she separated from me because she wasn't feeling loved by me - now that she has made up her mind - she gets angry if I tell her I love her, I miss her, call her dear or honey... She doesn't want any pressure from me to get back together... Thus I have stopped being clingy, desperate, etc.

But How do I show her I love her more than anything if she refuses to let me express it... I have learned about her emotional needs - I what to satisfy her needs - but have limited time with her to be able to meet her emotional needs. Also she is so angry - anytime I try to express my love - the devil comes out of her to put up the ice wall to protect her emotions.

I have tried NC and LC and most of Michele's 180 techniques - but nothing seems to have any effect. The marriage fell apart as we drifted apart and focused on our daughter. I do not see how a limited communication between us or my being strong independent "I can take care of myself" could ever win her back if that is a major cause of our separation...

I think I have to show her my love subtly, keep up the communication, really listen to her when she talks, do what she wants and agree with her is the only chance I have left. That is what Dr. Harley "His Needs, Her Needs" told me specifically in a personal 30 minute telephone call and e-mail.

The biggest problem is our daughter's dropoff and pick-up is at daycare so we could actually go a month without seeing each other - I have to call her directly to talk and try to most days to have us each say goodnight to our daughter. - but often those calls are just 30 seconds with no other conversation.

My thought is maybe if we are friendly, it would give us something to build on over the next 12 months. Yes I know I need to build up myself, etc. Is it also possible that if we can cooperate and not argue over the next 12 months that our marriage can be repaired - or at least give it an attempt... I truly believe that the 12 month separation is specifically designed to provide breathing room, to be apart, see what its like, whether apart is better or worse - etc.

Of course, It could all be a lie - she could be in love with someone else... but of course she could learn this guy is a jerk...

Anyway, despite the odds, I do not want to give up hope that some miracle is possible... so my only course of action seems to be to continue to give her what she wants and be friendly and see if anything comes of it...

And yes I keep wavering between hope and reality...

Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated

(I can read posts today - but then away from my computer until Aug 20- when I am back)

Thanks, SingleDad
_________________________
Me:40 / W:33 / D:3
T:7.5/M:4
D Day: 1/24/08
Legal Separated: 6/12/08
BF who sleeps over: confirmed 11/10/08
Suspect BF pre-dates D Day

http://tinyurl.com/Original-thread
http://tinyurl.com/Second-thread
http://tinyurl.com/Third-thread


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#1557810 - 08/14/08 03:16 PM Re: How to start from scratch in 12 Mos Separation ? [Re: SingleDad]
SingleDad Offline
Member

Registered: 08/11/08
Posts: 365
Loc: Western New York
I posted here for positive reinforcement - other sites are often just to negative - i.e. throw in the towel... No I want to hear positive action steps - not merely in myself but in positive interactions/steps to take with wife.

Also, 4 year anniversary in Aug 21. I mailed a Happy Anniversary card. said something life "The past or future is not what is important but what is inside of us". An merely signed Love, Jim.

I am thinking about sending a dozen roses, and then a personal letter... "I've learned that I do not need you... rather I want you" type letter... Good/only time to send such a letter...

Then go back to subtle actions and 180 route


Edited by SingleDad (08/14/08 03:21 PM)
_________________________
Me:40 / W:33 / D:3
T:7.5/M:4
D Day: 1/24/08
Legal Separated: 6/12/08
BF who sleeps over: confirmed 11/10/08
Suspect BF pre-dates D Day

http://tinyurl.com/Original-thread
http://tinyurl.com/Second-thread
http://tinyurl.com/Third-thread


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#1557817 - 08/14/08 03:19 PM Re: How to start from scratch in 12 Mos Separation ? [Re: SingleDad]
Arthur Offline
Member

Registered: 03/30/08
Posts: 2072
I think you've got yourself a good plan there and yes it can be saved. All marriages can be saved, I believe a lot of it depends on the state of mind and how far gone the WAS is.

Thinking back, I've had threads and my W even contact a solicitor like about 4 years ago and being the DAM I was, I told myself it was just her over reacting to an arguement as the issue argued about was nothing (to me). However, and what I've read in 'We Can Work It Out', all those little things have been getting stored up then bam !!!!

GL to you

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#1558921 - 08/15/08 01:52 PM Re: How to start from scratch in 12 Mos Separation ? [Re: Arthur]
Neilh23 Offline
Member

Registered: 06/02/08
Posts: 1834
Loc: Western New York
Singledad...

i live in the dunkirk/fredonia area. but i grew up in buffalo. i will read up on y our sitch soon. i appreciate you popping in on me the other day...
_________________________
ME:32 WAW:31
D #1: 3.5 D #2: 2
Together: 13 M:6
Bomb Dropped: 2/15/08
Sep legally: 6/18/08

"Tommorrow there'll be sunshine, and all this darkness past..."
-Bruce Springsteen Land of Hope and Dreams


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#1560010 - 08/16/08 05:38 PM Re: How to start from scratch in 12 Mos Separation ? [Re: Neilh23]
SingleDad Offline
Member

Registered: 08/11/08
Posts: 365
Loc: Western New York
I have not sent the letter.

I did mail a simple card "Happy Anniversary" with something pre-printed card like " Its not the past, nor the future, but what's inside that is important" and I signed "Love, ___"

W must have gotten it yesterday - because she picked up my daughter this morning and W was short and with attitude. Not sure if because of the card, or because it was only a card.

I have ordered a bouquet of flowers... was advised against a dozen roses (would have too much meaning and push her further away), but went with something like 5 or 6 red roses with bunch of purple flowers, etc.

It might piss her off in the shot run, but in a few weeks or months, I think it come off as better than doing nothing or forgetting.

When W is giving off attitude, like this morning - I feel empty inside and hopeless.

I have less than 10 months to try to save a marriage that my W doesn't want - I pikced up some more self-help books to read to make myself irresistible (yeah right)to her.
_________________________
Me:40 / W:33 / D:3
T:7.5/M:4
D Day: 1/24/08
Legal Separated: 6/12/08
BF who sleeps over: confirmed 11/10/08
Suspect BF pre-dates D Day

http://tinyurl.com/Original-thread
http://tinyurl.com/Second-thread
http://tinyurl.com/Third-thread


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#1560083 - 08/16/08 07:13 PM Re: How to start from scratch in 12 Mos Separation [Re: SingleDad]
Work2do Offline
Member

Registered: 08/11/08
Posts: 130
SD stopped by to read your sitch. Some of it repeats for me the communication thing and how to do correctly. Can't mind read. Not plugging but I downloaded the Marriage Breakthrough and it opened my eyes about ME and what I need to do grow as a person. Not for W yet as it's not the time, I hope it will be sometime. Even if it goes all the way I would still share with her to make her new life more enjoyable, that's the unconditional love thing.

As for me I'm trying to take the high road still. GAL, PMA, moving to new place this week etc. I too found a negative group first but one of the organizers pointed me here 3.5 months ago and I've been here since. Just reading mostly but now I'm working on me etc.


Edited by Work2do (08/16/08 07:14 PM)
_________________________
Work2do

Married 22 years. Known each other 23.5 years
Me: 42
W: 40
S: 21
D: 15
D: 11
Bomb Dropped: 04/7/08
Separated: 04/25/08
ILYBIDLY: 05/16/08

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#1560619 - 08/17/08 12:50 PM Re: How to start from scratch in 12 Mos Separation ? [Re: SingleDad]
Neilh23 Offline
Member

Registered: 06/02/08
Posts: 1834
Loc: Western New York
Originally Posted By: SingleDad
I did mail a simple card "Happy Anniversary" with something pre-printed card like " Its not the past, nor the future, but what's inside that is important" and I signed "Love, ___"

W must have gotten it yesterday - because she picked up my daughter this morning and W was short and with attitude. Not sure if because of the card, or because it was only a card.


don't worry about what she thinks. that's her thing...if she's pissed, that's her problem. You did it from the heart. that's what matters.

Originally Posted By: SingleDad

I have ordered a bouquet of flowers... was advised against a dozen roses (would have too much meaning and push her further away), but went with something like 5 or 6 red roses with bunch of purple flowers, etc.

Unless this is something that you've never done before (ie..send flowers) don't do this. It's pursuing, which the W does NOT want. She knows how you feel. Trust me. Trust that she knows. Anything like this is considered pressure from the LBS and what they are trying to do is process a TON of emotions and they can't when they get things like that from us.

Originally Posted By: SingleDad


When W is giving off attitude, like this morning - I feel empty inside and hopeless.


You cannot let that happen. OWN your emotions. Don't let her dictate your hope for saving your M. Detach from your W. don't let her emotions and feelings effect yours. I know, easier said than done; however figure out how to do it. G(et) A L(ife). do things with yourself. Find what makes YOU happy, outside of your W and M. Work to keep a Positive Mental Attitude (PMA). People are attracted to other positive people. Smile when you are around her. I don't know how much contact you have with your W, but be happy and content on the outside, even if you feel like sh*t on the inside. They know how much they've hurt us. SHowing it only creates more guilt for them, and hence, more pressure.


Originally Posted By: SingleDad

I have less than 10 months to try to save a marriage that my W doesn't want - I pikced up some more self-help books to read to make myself irresistible (yeah right)to her.


Please do not think like that. Find the positive interactions with your W. Become the man that your W fell in love with. Do not think in terms of months....it's going to take awhile, but it is possible. REad stories on this board. Try different things and gauge how they work. You'll be able to tell if they do or not. Just be consistent.

What has she said that you need to work on? Do you know? Have you gone to see a counselor? Have you considered getting some of the DB coaching sessions?

You've already made the first big positive step. YOu are here. You know what you want. Your W does not. No matter what she says, she does not. THis statement rings true for everything: Believe none of what you hear and half of what you see. They will speak in absolute negatives because they are scared and hurting too. Know that your W is experiencing the same type of emotions you are.

STay strong. Babysteps are first......
_________________________
ME:32 WAW:31
D #1: 3.5 D #2: 2
Together: 13 M:6
Bomb Dropped: 2/15/08
Sep legally: 6/18/08

"Tommorrow there'll be sunshine, and all this darkness past..."
-Bruce Springsteen Land of Hope and Dreams


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#1560632 - 08/17/08 01:21 PM Re: How to start from scratch in 12 Mos Separation ? [Re: Neilh23]
Neilh23 Offline
Member

Registered: 06/02/08
Posts: 1834
Loc: Western New York
I guess what i'm saying is that have patience. Be Consistent. Don't expect to fix it over nite. It's going to be a long process, but it'll be worth it. And in a lot of ways, the long time it takes to fix, is actually healthier for the entire thing. I'm in your boat. I want to try and fix this overnite when in reality, it can't be. It took long time for thing to go badly. IT's going to take a long time to fix them. A lot of hard, painful work. But you will be stronger coming out of this.
_________________________
ME:32 WAW:31
D #1: 3.5 D #2: 2
Together: 13 M:6
Bomb Dropped: 2/15/08
Sep legally: 6/18/08

"Tommorrow there'll be sunshine, and all this darkness past..."
-Bruce Springsteen Land of Hope and Dreams


Top
#1561377 - 08/18/08 10:46 AM Re: How to start from scratch in 12 Mos Separation ? [Re: SingleDad]
JCJ Offline
Member

Registered: 05/27/08
Posts: 3324
Loc: London, UK
Hi SingleDad

First off I'm sorry that you are in the situation where you need to be here but I have found this place a really good source for support.

My first question here is

Quote:
1. I could never understand the kind of love she needed (I do now, though not sure if any one could ever satisfy her wants)


Could you elaborate more on this. What are her wants? It may help you in the process of Real Giving which is something I have found quite useful in my sitch. It also might help identify behaviours that you can do more of, Michelle says to do what works rather than what doesn't. Have you found anything that has been successful in bringing out a positive reaction in your wife?

It is difficult when you don't have much interaction with your spouse - I'd rather be honest here. But it just means that in the few interactions you do have you have to show the best of yourself and be in a good mindset. To achieve this the only thing I have found is to detach - realise that you can't control how your w is feeling but you can change your interactions with them if you don't follow past negative behaviours.

Obviously you ultimately want to save your marriage. But also you share a daughter together so you will always have to have some kind of relationship so even if you don't end up together it would be really good to do this so you know in yourself that you have done your utmost and you have the best relationship you can have for your daughter.

It is great that you have stopped being clingy etc and that you have identified what was pushing her away. It sounds like you have great self-awareness.

You said the things you have tried haven't worked so far. Maybe try describing your 180s or LRT or if you don't want to go back on the past come here for help if you are stuck on an interaction with your w (I do that all the time, and I wouldn't be where I am without everyone's advice from here).

Quote:
Anyway, despite the odds, I do not want to give up hope that some miracle is possible... so my only course of action seems to be to continue to give her what she wants and be friendly and see if anything comes of it...

If this is what is working then ok carry on, but it doesn't seem to me that it is. Maybe it isn't showing your strength and new GAL activities. Michelle talks about not always being available etc. Make her wonder about you, spark her interest.

Quote:
I do not see how a limited communication between us or my being strong independent "I can take care of myself" could ever win her back if that is a major cause of our separation...

Although I take this point. Was that her complaint? I'd really like to know more about this.

Quote:
Of course, It could all be a lie - she could be in love with someone else... but of course she could learn this guy is a jerk...

If you can, I'd really try not to think about this. It doesn't help PMA and is supposition and speculation at the moment. Concentrate on things you know.

You are in a good position now really, she has the said independence and so do you. Remember to look after yourself, make yourself the greener grass for her but more importantly for you. It will make you stronger and help you through this difficult time.

What about you? What do you like to do? Do you have any hobbies?
_________________________
M- May 2006
D - Aug 2010
Now travelling the world

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#1561606 - 08/18/08 02:58 PM Re: How to start from scratch in 12 Mos Separation ? [Re: SingleDad]
TwinDad Offline
Member

Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 1194
SD,

You have been getting some excellent advice from Neil and Julia!

Quote:
But How do I show her I love her more than anything if she refuses to let me express it... I have learned about her emotional needs - I what to satisfy her needs - but have limited time with her to be able to meet her emotional needs. Also she is so angry - anytime I try to express my love - the devil comes out of her to put up the ice wall to protect her emotions.



This is the key paragraph in your post in my opinion. First off, I have read His Needs/Her Needs. I actually read it when my W and I started to have problems. I told my W I wanted to meet her needs.....she told me "she didn't want me to" The book is excellent, but it is not the time to use it aside from trying to understand things a little bit with the realizationt that this understanding is something you are going to have to keep to your self. I read the book and told my W "I had it all figured out"....she said "you can't fix this"....I said "No but we can".....she said "But I have to want to"....any of this sound familiar.

I think Dr. Harley's advice on the subtleness is essential in anything you do.....anything else will come off as needy, pursuiting and will be viewed as pressuring.

If you want to meet your W's emotional needs then meet the one that she wants you to meet......detach. Have the strength to be yourself and to let her be herself. This is what real giving is about....she has told you what she wants (space)....give it to her even if you don't want to. Have the courage to let her go....but be her friend if she needs one (Check out the Man-Up thread in MLC by SG....it is probably several pages back now). I doubt seriously if your newly sep W was upset that she only got a card for your Anniversary...I hope you didn't follow it up with flowers. This is a day she is trying to forget....don't pressure her.

The biggest thing you can do is GAL, especially with your D....she needs you.

It is good that you can be civil....be upbeat around your W.

My W and several others told us they didn't want to work on the M, that it was over, etc, etc. All hope is not last by any means.

The reasons you listed seem pretty "light" to be seeking a D while having a 2-1/2 yr old D.......is there anything else.....any suspicions?

Just an observation, but having been through a sep with children the age of yours, it almost sounds like your D is kind of like a ping-pong ball. I agree with the 50% custody (especially since you sound like a good Dad) but it is important to have some stability in her life. My W and I did alternating weeks with a visit in between or planned activity for our children that we would share in. Just a thought (I wouldn't bring it up if the dust has steeled on the sep agreement....no point bringing up tension again). If D happens then you might consider a different arrangement.

I would work mainly on GAL (yourself when you don't have D, and with D when you do!). I would also work on being her friend....listen to her and care when SHE gives the opportunity. Let her lead the R....chances are if you stop chasing she will stop running
_________________________
TwinDad
Me 39, W 36, M 11
W - MLC, WAW????
2 Kids B/G 3 YRS Old
Start of the Long and Bumpy Road.....
On the verge of piecing.....a new beginning

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