Tipper, I have been following your situation, but never felt like I had anything to offer, because, frankly, I am worried about all the gymnastics you are going thru to reconcile with someone that needs to get help. Serious help. If he did get a DUI (or God forbid, seriously injure or kill another person) the financial/emotional impact would be huge. It would take BOTH of you down.
My H seems to have a bit of a drinking issue (doesn't seem to know when to stop once he gets started) and when we were living together, he would go out and sometimes not come home til the wee hours of the morning. It was horrible. And even HE had to admit that a married guy shouldn't be doing what he was doing (going out to bars on his own). Of course he would add "YOU should make it so I don't want to go". *sigh*
For me, if my H said "I will continue to go out to bars, stay out til the wee hours, not be accountable to you, and you better accept that if you want to reconcile" I would probably have to say "Thanks, but no thanks."
Currently H and I are "dating". I don't have to be "exposed" to whatever his shennanigans are. I don't know if he is still doing that sort of thing or not.
Wow- I am babbling. Sheesh- the bottom line that I was *trying* to get to is that I wonder why we LBSs will accept so little? And why is that WE have to walk around on eggshells hoping to not scare the WAS off? Why is it that OUR needs mean so little and that the WASs needs are SO important? Would we expect so little from our friends?
In particular, in your case Tipper, I am just plain concerned at what your H is doing and I am worried that his actions (even if you are "detached" and "forgive" him and "accept" him) will drag YOU down.
Your needs are valid. You deserve to have them met. As to how to approach you H, I don't know. I am more concerned with the big picture-- and that is that he has a serious problem with alcohol and needs help.
Sorry if my first post to you seems overly harsh. I really am just concerned that you are walking directly into a mine-field and no one is waving their arms wildly to try to stop you.
I have continued to be surprised at how no one talks says anything about how he continues to disrespect you. There was another post I did on this thread on Aug 30th that you might want to re-read. Talked about that from "outside" it looks like you are so anxious to be with him that you are willing to sacrifice yourself and your esteem.
I'm going to leave it at that; I seem to be the dissenting voice.
I really want you to find happiness-- and if standing up for what you want/need means you "push him away"- is that what you want for yourself?
Me-43 H-46 M 12 yrs 7/09 T 15 2 grown kids bomb 7/05/07 H moved out 8/04/07 11/22/09 told him I quit;let's get ball rolling Mid Dec- he isn't sure he wants D End 2/2010-Starting to consider piecing
I do agree with you that my H has a drinking problem and that he needs to get help. But he refuses. I know I cant change that.
We have a great relationship and I would do anything to save my M.
I do agree with you though and your concerns about my H disrespecting me when he blows me off. He knows he shouldnt be out drinking alone since he is a married man. But he does feel guilty about it afterwards.
This drinking at bars with out me behavior is new and has only been this way for the last year. I do still think he is in MLC.
I do feel like a doormat sometimes and that I put up with way too much of it. I am just very afraid of pushing him away.
I am glad that you are honest with me when you look in from the outside. I need to hear it. You are so right about me compromising my self esteem. It crushes me evertime he goes out alone. TIPPER
You are so right about me compromising my self esteem. It crushes me evertime he goes out alone.
And THAT is what worries me the most.
I know you would "do anything" to save the marriage-and it looks like you are. But right now, is this the sort of marriage you want to save?
IOW,
Quote:
if standing up for what you want/need means you "push him away"- is that what you want for yourself?
And you know what, maybe I am pushing you so hard because I see me in you. My H has come back around--not enough to have us actually move in together, or even call it "reconciling"--but he does want me to be in his life while he figures out "whatever it is" that he needs to learn. I think the difference is: IF he said he was "working" on the marriage, I would have MUCH higher expectations. He has made it clear he is not ready to 'work' on the marriage. This allows me some freedom to explore my own life, meet other people, etc.
Here is some classic DB advice (normally administered when the WAS is actually walking away and not claiming to want to work on the marriage) "Have no expectations and you won't be disappointed."
How does your H feel about consistently hurting you? What is his explanation? If you have plainly said "It hurts me when you go out to the bar without me" and then he goes and does it anyway, he is deliberately, knowingly, choosing to hurt you!
If you really don't want to hold his feet to the fire and stand up for yourself, then you will need to GAL and detach.
Me-43 H-46 M 12 yrs 7/09 T 15 2 grown kids bomb 7/05/07 H moved out 8/04/07 11/22/09 told him I quit;let's get ball rolling Mid Dec- he isn't sure he wants D End 2/2010-Starting to consider piecing
Tipper, Can you restate or summarize what 2 or 3 relationship goals you are focusing on for these next upcoming few weeks?
Laurie, Divorce Busting Coach Contact The Divorce Busting Center at 303-444-7004 or 800-664-2435 if you would like to schedule a telephone consultation with a DB Coach - or email virginia@divorcebusting.com for info.
Yea, I certainly can. I would love to try and refocus so this is good for me.
One of my past goals started to get a baby step. so now I need to update it. The goal was : I would like my H to start talking about moving back in with each other. He actually mentioned it for the first time this past week end after 7 months of peicing. Yeah!!!
My Relationship goals Now: Goal 1= for my H to speak of moving back in together again (by buying and fixing up my G-ma's old house - it would be perfect for us). Goal 2= To not say its ok, if he blows me off. The next time it happens, I again need to stay busy and act as if. Then afterwards when he sees me I will not say that I understand but rather I will let him know its not really ok but that I am glad to see him. Goal 3=To spend more quality nights together this week than last week. At least 4-5 would be nice.
#1 - Have H get a bit more consistent about bringing up moving back. Ways to encourage that: a. discuss buying and fixing G'mas house
and (I am adding this)
b. begin or continue to behave and relate in ways that helped get us back together before **You have gotten back together 2 times before, is that right? If so, I'd like to hear what you did that helped him want to come home those previous times. That will offer clues as to how to answer #1.b.
#2 Tipper, finish this sentence: Instead of blowing me off he would do/say or would not do/say _____. Goal #2 seems to describe what actions you are considering doing. If you were successful at those actions, what response from H would you be wanting to get? Also, could you give me a specific example of what he is doing when he blows you off?
#3 Have 4-5 quality nights together How many nights have you been together (on the average) the last 2 weeks? What does it mean to have quality nights with H? What is happening on those nights and what is not happening that make those nights good?
Tipper, please continue to help clarify and we'll continue our talk!
By the way, from looking at some of your posts, it sounds like both of you have managed to heal the relationship a number of times - that is great and it says a lot. Also, you seem to have been very patient and enduring in the midst of your H's drinking history. I don't fully understand the extent of his history and how that impacts you and your relationship, but I certainly hear your high level of commitment in this relationship. You have my respect and support!
Take care, Laurie
Laurie, Divorce Busting Coach Contact The Divorce Busting Center at 303-444-7004 or 800-664-2435 if you would like to schedule a telephone consultation with a DB Coach - or email virginia@divorcebusting.com for info.
I will try to answer those questions you had and finish up refining my goals.
Well, Over the past three days my H has brought up moving into my G-ma's house several times. We are both pretty happy with the thought of it. And I am psyched to see that it wasnt just nonsense babble. He is serious about it, and the house will fit both our needs in so many ways. So, I think my First goal is on its way.
In Part 1b to that goal, you asked what brought him back the last few times, and it is honestly several things. Every time he came back, it seemed out of the blue. But I definetly was mysetious and went dark several times. I tried to looked great, and stayed busier than a bee in terms of GALing. I never would call or bother him. We hardly spoke all three times in between his coming and going.
But mostly I think it was time apart that made him realize what he was missing. I also think that by me GALing it impressed him. So I keep this up still with art nights, bowling leagues, trivia nights, and keeping in touch with our old group of friends.
Goal #2: When my H blows me off it is so that he can go out and drink with one or many of his several bar buddies. He usually will get too drunk on accident and then can not drive to come see me on those nights. It usually happens when we had previously made plans to get together, and then he will run into someone out of the blue. The response I would like is for my H to put me on his list of priorities and to follow through with our plans (basically honoring me as his wife, instead of boozing). This week he has done very well, and he even came over on a night that we usually set aside to go seperate ways.
I will come back later to answer more and to talk about goal #3. TIPPER
Continuing Goal #2I would like it, if our plans got changed less often. And it would be nice to find out about our change of plans sooner rather than two or three hrs after we were supposed to get together. It was happening about once every week or so for a few months. I do believe he has become aware of the negative effects that it has on us. This happened with out me complaining, it was like he all of a sudden he just expressed to me that he will try better to keep our plans and stay away from the bars. Goal #3:On average, we are usually together 5-6 nights a week. But last week he did poorly and drank heavily which meant he couldnt drive to see me as much so I would just do my own GAL activities to stay busy. Last week he only came over 3 nights, and he broke or changed several of our plans. I was upset but never let him know it. He then suddenly changed and started to show me lots of affection and wanted to spend lots of time together.
When I say quality nights, I guess that I mean that we will spend the whole evening together doing something we both like. Rather than him showing up at 10 or 11pm after drinking all evening just to spend the night with me.
So far, since he spoke to me about knowing that he needs to try harder to stop the drinking - he has been at my place every night this week for almost the entire evening each time. Yeah. He is trying and I am so happy. It is like he read my mind.
I am again noticing this strong pattern my H seems to be following.
He will be very distant and drunk and wasted hanging out at the bars for a few nights in a row throughout the week.
Then the next week he will be very kind and loving and helpful and hanging out at my place a lot.
It is hard on me, becuase I never know what kind of a night I am going to have.
I rarely make plans with him anymore since I get so sick of him blowing me off. Now we base each night on a night by night basis depending on his actions.
He has been saying things an awful lot lately to me about himself being a drunk. And he says how it is so easy for him to go to a bar, but always so hard for him to leave. He calls himself a punk and says he has always been one (but he wasnt ever before all this happened).
He talks as though he is warning me that he will always be an alcoholic and that I need to accept it and expect him to be at the bars a lot.
I told him last night that I didnt really want to stay at the restaurant we ate at to get more drinks after dinner. He kept asking and rechecking if we could stay. I said, I was tired and I had to drive home so I could leave with out him if he wants. He said, No and that he would come with me.
He made me feel guilty so I said to him that he was making me feel like I am a slug just becuase at 9 o'clock I wanted to go home instead of stay and drink on a work night. I also get up at 4:45am every day and he doesnt need to get up until he wants to. I feel like I am so lame compared to the lifestyle he wants.
Things have been good between us, I just freak out so much about our future. Whether or not we will ever live together again or not.
The thing is,that My H came back to me (as I so dreamed and desired and prayed for), however unlike before he is an alcoholic and going to bars daily/nightly.
I dont know what to do or how to feel about it. TIPPER
My H is so loving and kind when he is with me and we have fun together.
But Lately he has been distancing himself in a major way. He has been at the bar drinking almost every night for the last two weeks. He has left me alone on many of these nights, with out much concern for what I am up to.
Friday, he drank for 4 hrs at a bar with out me, before we went to see a play.
On sat. as soon as I got up he left in my jeep to do a few hrs of work, since he didnt have his truck here. So I had no ride for the entire day. I was stuck here while he text me that he was gonna help a friend move. Then they went to the bar. I didnt see him till 8 and I couldnt go do anything. When he came home at 8 we watched a movie and fell asleep half way through.
Then on sun, he stayed here in the morning and we bowled all afternoon and night on our league. He drank all day. He had band practice afterwards and said he would be over when he was done. I went home and fell asleep on the couch. He came over at 1am finally and woke me up to move me up to the bedroom. I was so disappointed that I didnt ask him why he was so late.
Then on mon. he plays with his band at a bar. He text me to let me know they would play later than normal. He was there all night. I got their after my art night was done at 10:40ish and they still didnt start playing yet. So we got to talk for about 10 min before he went on. I told him I was gonna leave half way through So he thanked me for coming and gave me a kiss goodbye.
After I got home from work today, He text me to let me know he had a kiawanas meeting and that he would probably not see me tontight because he is so busy getting ready for the t-day race. I didnt respond.
So it looks like he is ditching me again tonight. There is no reason that he cant come here tonight after his meeting as usual. No stores will be open that late, and his only responsibilty for this race is buying water and food goods. So for him to say he is too busy is just a line a crap. He just wants to stay out and drink and I am pretty sure thats what he has been doing all day.
HELP. What can I do. What am I doing wrong. I feel like I am loosing him again. TIPPER
