TIPPER'S 3rd thread - Piecing Pointers

[Tipper]

Hello All,

I am starting my 3rd thread, cuz the last one locked.

I am in piecing with my H, however he still shows signs of MLC.

This is our third attempt at piecing, the first attempt lasted 5 months and the second attempt lasted 1 week, and now we are trying a third time and have made it 3 1/2 months so far.

When I first started piecing, I felt so lost. I had spent far too much time focusing on his MLC and reading things to understand it. Hence, I overlooked reading into things that would help me if we were ever to get back together.

So, I would like to start this thread with a bunch of pointers that have helped me along the way through piecing. Some of these pointers come from the piecing forum, some from people who post to me, some are from the KLA cd's, and some of it are just basic facts. Much of this, I have just learned or finally have gotten through my thick skull. Here it goes:

1) To forgive means to drop it and never bring it up again - ever!
2) Patience, our marriages will not fix themselves overnight.
3) Keep focusing on me, GAL, and being an individual - so that we dont focus on the troubeled M or the problems within it.
4) Make the neccessary changes that we as individuals need to make (no...blaming, accusing, put-downs, blowing up, yelling, crying, bringing up the past, or making sly remarks). Take responsibility for our parts in the break down instead of taking it out on your partner.
5) Keep your faith, hope, and pray for the restoration of our M's and for the salvation of our MLC spouses.
6) Look as good as you can, take pride in your appearance (it will help you feel good about yourself and it will help attract the MLCer to you again)
7) Let the Lords words and the Lords walk of life guide us on our journeys (stop being self righteous, and instead be kind and put yourself in thier shoes).
8) Stop the Jealousy (towards their new lifestyle, their new friends, new hobbies, and new attitudes). It is normal to feel jealous, but it is pathetic to show it. Instead - transform it into feul to fire you up about changing things you resent.
9) Think positively (especially about your spouse, the improvements they are making, and their desire to recommit to the M) also, in general - SMILE!!!
10) Still set goals and watch for baby steps. Then experiement and monitor the results - just like we were taught to do during thier time away. Now that they are back, you must keep this going in order to change the pre-existing troubled parts of your relationship.
11) Dont show insecurity, be confident and strong in our decisions. Our self esteem is pretty much shot after they leave us, and it is up to us to re-build it to overcome our weaknesess.
12) Speak in "I" statements, softly and calmly when you need to express hurts and pains. Dont bombard them with blame.
13) Watch out for certain situations that you know could send you into a fight, and prepare your self to avoid one by being the first to change. For example, I always let my emotions burst when it is that time of the month or when I have had a few too many drinks - so now I know that I need to be more cautious during these times not to let our progress slip away by being emotional.
14) Validate them, and listen well. You'd be amazed at how much you can learn by really listening.
15) Reward them when deserved. If they do things you like, show your appreciation in a way that they would like.
16) Give them thier needed time & space, as many MLC S's that return are still very confused and are adjusting to another change in their lifestyle. Leave them be if needed.
17) Do new and exciting things together, novelty is fun and will help you both grow.
18) Change the way you react to them when your angry. Most conflicts go in circles, be the first to change. Stop being defensive all the time, and take some blame and apologize when neccessary.
19) They will still test us during this time, they want to see if the changes they saw are just temporary or if they are permanent. So be aware, that sometimes they will still do or say things that seem very MLCish. Brush it off, and dont read into every word or action, and keep your changes going.
20) And most important, is to honor your spouse. Dont put them on the back burner -ever! Even if they seem to do it to you, it should not be your way of getting back at them. Make them feel how important you think they are. Love unconditionally.

Well, thats my top 20, I am sure there are many more tips out there and I am hoping some experienced piecers will chime in here. Also, you might notice that much of the above is very similar to the things you try to do while they are gone, so the tips can be helpful to those that are still seperated also.
Lets try to keep this list going!!!
TIPPER

[Tipper]

Journaling,

Well my H and I leave tonight for our florida & bahamas trip and will be gone together for a week. I cant wait, and he seems excited too. I hope we have a great trip and bonding experience that we surely need.

My H skiped going to my brothers b-day party last, so I went alone and came back all smiles. I now act as if it doesnt bother me that he cant come to family funtions on my side of the family anymore. I have tried to tell him it is not fair to my family but he just cant face them. So I go alone, and hope that this is not the way he sees it in the future.

My Moms b-day will be the day after we get back from our trip. I dont think he will go to her party either, but oh well - what can I do. I sure cant verbally persuade him so I have stopped trying. Now I just offer it, then go alone when he refuses & makes up some bad excuse. I will try this approach for a while, but if the 180 doesnt work, I dont know what else to try.

I will give an update next week when we get back on how our trip and anniversary went.
TIPPER

[Tipper]

We just got back from our anniversary trip to florida/bahamas, and it was a blast. Even with hurricane Fay, the weather didnt deter us from having a great time.

It was so nice to spend the entire week with my H with no other distractions from our every day life. However, I found it really hard to come back home and drop him off at his apartment and go our seperate ways since he is still living apart from me. I cried on my way home because now it is back to reality time.

We had no huge blow outs. He only had a little temper when we were having driving and direction difficulties. He would blow up if we missed a turn, and then he would blame it on me. I would just sit queitly and not react. He even said he was sorry one time after blowing up and he asked me why I put up with his crap? I said, because I would rather shake it off instead of react back and go in circles with him because that is not productive for us. He said He could see my point, and said I still shouldnt have to put up with that type of treatment. I was shocked that he actually realized what his temper can do to us. He tried hard from that point on to not over-react, but he had a few slip ups on the way home.

He seemed great for about 5 days, then the last two he seemed a bit distant. He was constantly texting friends from home on his phone, even while we were at dinner. He got a cold, and got irratable.

I would rather focus on the 5 good days we had, because the last two werent that bad - just different.

So today I will go visit my family alone as expected. He gave me the "I've got to catch up on work" excuse, so he wouldnt have to come around my Family. OH WELL!!!
TIPPER

[Tipper]

I got to vent!!!

Well, as I said, I went alone to celebrate my mom's 55th b-day up at my parents camp. My H said he had to catch up on work since we were gone for our trip.

When I got home, I text my H at around 9:30 and said I am home chilling for the night. He said he was too drunk to drive over and see me, so he would come by the next day instead. I said "o.k." even though this type of behavior bothers me. He always would rather go drink than to come see me.

So before I went to bed that night, through my tears I said the "hedge of thorns" prayer since I know I can not keep my H from sinning - I just pray that he would not find satisfaction out of it.

Much to my surprise my prayers were answered, while at 3:30a.m. my H called me to see if I could come and bail him out from getting a DWI. He blew a 2.2 (bac). This is the 3rd time he was given just a warning when he should have been arrested for a DWI.

The officer said, that the only reason he is giving him a warning was because he always sees my H's truck around at the town bars and that he knows that he will catch him again. When I told my H this, he just laughed. I dont understand why he cant learn from his mistakes. This is the third time he has gotten out of this in a two year time period through different officers giving him warnings.

I know it did shake my H up a bit despite his laughter the night before when he was still drunk. Because the next day he kept saying that he would kill himself if he ever hurt anyone else while drinking and driving. He said he just wasnt thinking and said he just really wanted to see me and the dog when he drunkenly got in his truck that night.

I guess I am flattered that he said he wanted to see me, but if that was the case - then why couldnt he have seen me when I first text him, rather than later after 6 more hours of drinking. I know why, it is because he treats his new friends like gold, and me like silver. I am always here for him to fall on and lean on, but only after he has had his full of fun with his new buddies. They definetly come first, and me second. This is so frusterating.
TIPPER

[brandnewday]

Tipper,
Forgive me if I sound a bit negative, but how long until you and your Husband will actually be living together again?

He still sounds so very much MLC, with his moods, outbursts and the drinking. Ignoring you and texting his friends? That is totally rude. No wonder you are frustrated.

Piecing is for TWO people who are committed to the Marriage, not one person doing all of the work and the other along for the ride.

I am glad you had a nice vacation together, I am sure you have some lovely memories and took tons of photos.

[Tipper]

BND,
Yeah, I agree with you that my H still seems to totally be in MLC despite him returning to me. That is why I seem so scared about every little thing I do. I am doing everything as to not push him away again. I am holding back a lot. I would like to just show him my Hurt and pain, but I cant because it only sends him running.

I love being with him, and our time together is great. I have to just go in slow motion because he is still very lost and confused. I have to accept it, if I want it to work out between us. I am along for the ride. I am very patient by nature, and I plan on seeing what will happen in our futures. I still dont think that he wants to make any move to live together again any time soon. Maybe winter time at best.

I pray for the best.
TIPPER

[Tipper]

O.k.
I am coming to the realization that I need to continue to do the 180's I have been doing, since they are working nicely at mending our R.

However, I also have realized that by doing these 180's(I've stopped defending myself, and accept my H's life choices even when I disagree with them) has put me in a position where many of my needs and wants are not being met.

So now, I have come to the conclusion finally that I need to learn how to be assertive and to ask calmly and nicely for what I want out of our M. This is so scary to me, there is a lot at risk here. But it would be another 180 for me to try since in the past my H used to say that I was too complacent. I had no idea what he meant by that. But now I think I do. I think that he is saying that I need to speak up more about my needs in a non complaining way.

Wow, the things I have learned here are all coming together and I hope that I can accomplish this next task. It is so scary to me, anyone have any suggestions. New_Attitude suggested to me that I try a letter. This scares me to write one. I am afraid it needs to be more subtle when I finally start being asseretive.

This assertiveness will not come easy for me and I could use some other good suggestions.
TIPPER

[Trixi]

I am just posting rhetorically- no need to respond.

Tipper, I have been following your situation, but never felt like I had anything to offer, because, frankly, I am worried about all the gymnastics you are going thru to reconcile with someone that needs to get help. Serious help. If he did get a DUI (or God forbid, seriously injure or kill another person) the financial/emotional impact would be huge. It would take BOTH of you down.

My H seems to have a bit of a drinking issue (doesn't seem to know when to stop once he gets started) and when we were living together, he would go out and sometimes not come home til the wee hours of the morning. It was horrible. And even HE had to admit that a married guy shouldn't be doing what he was doing (going out to bars on his own). Of course he would add "YOU should make it so I don't want to go". *sigh*

For me, if my H said "I will continue to go out to bars, stay out til the wee hours, not be accountable to you, and you better accept that if you want to reconcile" I would probably have to say "Thanks, but no thanks."

Currently H and I are "dating". I don't have to be "exposed" to whatever his shennanigans are. I don't know if he is still doing that sort of thing or not.

Wow- I am babbling. Sheesh- the bottom line that I was *trying* to get to is that I wonder why we LBSs will accept so little? And why is that WE have to walk around on eggshells hoping to not scare the WAS off? Why is it that OUR needs mean so little and that the WASs needs are SO important? Would we expect so little from our friends?

In particular, in your case Tipper, I am just plain concerned at what your H is doing and I am worried that his actions (even if you are "detached" and "forgive" him and "accept" him) will drag YOU down.

Your needs are valid. You deserve to have them met. As to how to approach you H, I don't know. I am more concerned with the big picture-- and that is that he has a serious problem with alcohol and needs help.

Sorry if my first post to you seems overly harsh. I really am just concerned that you are walking directly into a mine-field and no one is waving their arms wildly to try to stop you.

[Tipper]

Trixi,
Thanks for your honesty. You are putting my feelings into words. I am also so afraid of the way we have set up our R. I allow him to do anything he wants becuase we are just dating, and honestly half the time, I dont know what he is doing since we still live seperate.

I guess that is why I am so concerned lately with where we stand. I love having our R back. I am fully dedicated to working on us and our M, and find it fun and challenging. I guess, over the last few weeks I find myself realizing that I have become a push over and accept way too much with out really voicing how I feel about his actions.

I guess in one way, this "overall acceptance" of my H is a good thing. But not when he is doing destructive things. So now I feel like I need to move on to the next step in the DBing process that I have not yet tried. And that would be to become more assertive in a calm and gentle loving way. That way, hopefully I will not end up exploding in a land mine.

I need to learn how to tell my H exactly what I want in our R. My needs are important, and I need to find a way of getting through to my H in a loving way about what I would like.

I have been too afraid to say anything up to this point because, every time I confronted him in the past he would just run. But I think that in the past, I would be cold to him and get mad while I was venting. I need to find a way to vent to him in a way as to not push him away. I need to not get defensive and just be honest with him about some of his actions. I still dont really know how to do it. But it is my next goal.

How are you feeling about your H's behaviors(drinking), do you say anything to him about it. Or is it not that much of a problem?

My H will say the same things about knowing it is not healthy for our M for him to be going to the bars alone. But he still does it. Weird - Huh???
TIPPER

[Trixi]

Tipper, I am glad that you took my post as I intended it.

With regard to my H's drinking--I don't really have any idea the extent to which he drinks or goes to bars. I know when we first separated he was non-stop party, party, party. His son (my SS that I helped raise) has a substance abuse problem that he is now in recovery from, and my H offered to have SS move back in with him. When I suggested to H that he might need to curb the drinking down, my H said "If Son can't handle it, then he shouldn't live with me." ?? I said "Do you realize that it sounds like you are picking alcohol over your son?" and he said "no. I could stop drinking if I wanted. I don't want to. I enjoy it and I shouldn't have to just because someone *else* has a problem with it." [eye roll- that was classic 'addict' speak] Despite knowing that son living with him is temporary and despite knowing that he could have a drink elsewhere, he is willing to tell his son "Nevermind, you can't live with me because I don't want to stop drinking in the house." If my H was calling me to get him from DWIs, flaking out on me to go to bars- I would seriously need to have second thoughts about trying to move things forward. I think I am worth more than that. I think you are, too.

I know you love your H, I know you are trying to accept him and not get worked up with what he is doing--but seriously, is this something you *really* want to get MORE involved with?

I don't know if it is my background (alcoholic mother, drug addicted father), but I read your posts and I feel scared for you. I think to myself "Why is she going to settle for so little?" And, I do NOT mean that you are settling for so little by not having your needs met(which you are, of course)-- I mean- settling for a man that would pick a bar over his wife.

You not having your needs met is a problem. Him needing to drink all the time is a BIGGER problem. He will have a heck of a time meeting your needs when he is filling his 'void' with alcohol.

Ugh- I am just not expressing what I want to say; it is so visceral for me.

My analogy is this: You are trying to put a bandaid ("meet my needs") on a gaping wound ("this relationship is in serious jeopardy due to the drinking").

Another analogy-(which will be WAY over the top, so don't take offense-it is really only to get my point across) If you knew your husband was robbing banks and didn't appear to want to stop robbing banks- would you REALLY want to align yourself CLOSER to him? Would your bone of contention REALLY be that he isn't being affectionate enough? Shouldn't it be first about the bank robbing? (I warned you, it was over the top.)

OH OH OH- I just thought of a REALLY good analogy. I have seen stories like this on Dr Phil and Oprah. The husband expresses dissatisfaction with the marriage. Wife scrambles to do 'whatever it takes' to save the marriage. Husband says he wants to do a threesome or watch his wife have sex with another man. Wife doesn't feel good about it, but is so anxious to keep him, she relents and does it. She feels horrible about herself. Her H doesn't respect her. Marriage fails. When I see these stories, I think "WHY did she let that happen? Why was she so desparate for his approval and pseudo-love, that she sacrificed herself?"

Again, I am not trying to be overly harsh- and I maybe I don't understand a dynamic in your situation; but looking in, I see someone that is so scared to lose her H that she will accept anything he is willing to give her, some of which is not good for her.

Now, I know I am one to talk. My H is tossing me crumbs and I have been accepting them. Sometimes I get more than crumbs and that keeps me going; but at some point, I need to have a real relationship with someone that is capable of being my partner.