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#129599 03/27/03 12:17 AM
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Are you getting so wrapped-up in the big picture that you are overlooking some of the small stuff?

Are you failing to recognize some of the small, "baby steps", that are happening?

When something "good" happens, do you often find yourself thinking, "Well, that was nice, but it's not enough, and I want more"?

What things happen that may seem insignificant to you at the time, but may actually be a sign that your partner is softening up to you?

Quoting Michele:
What will be the very first sign that things are starting to move in the right direction?

What are your thoughts about small changes leading to other changes?


JJ

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Thinking small is hard for people to do because we want results now. I want results now. I want to be invited to return home. Deep down I know this will take a long time for this to happen. Thus I can only take baby steps to accomplish this task. Thank you for the advice and I will try to stay focused on the small things.

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I agree with Keystone we are to impatient.

If she would just call me to chat I would say I have seen a sign. Or that she was softening.

Sure I believe small steps can go anywhere.

PS you never responded to my 2nd post on Too Little Too Late

Tks


__________________________________________________________ A glimpse of hope since I recieved the letter Two pieces of life have shifted for the better Now I lie in wait for number three For my beloved wife to return to me
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Quoting Keystone:
Thinking small is hard for people to do because we want results now. I want results now.


I think we all do, Keystone!

I believe that the trick is to set your goals according to Michele's suggestion, and to keep them "small, positive, doable, and action-oriented".

Keep your long-term goals in mind, but also set some SMALL goals that can be obtainable in a week or two. This makes it easier to see some positive momentum, and helps to give you incentive to keep you reaching towards your larger goals.


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What small steps have been happening lately in YOUR "journey of a thousand miles"?!


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I waited for so long for some baby steps from my H. After months of waiting, he called. He came over. Things went quite well. I got excited and thought maybe we were moving in the right direction.

Then for approximately a month, I did not see or hear from him. Lo and behold, he called again and wanted to come over. For six weeks, he called once a week and came by once a week for a couple of hours. I thought everything was going well, even though I knew he was still with the OW. For the first time, I had hope.

Not so. The first flurry was to get me to give him the title to the boat so that the bank would give him a loan for repairs to the motor. This turned out to be a big fat lie. He wanted it so he could trade the boat in on another boat. Now instead of the big nice boat we had, which was paid for, he now has a new, smaller boat which is not feasible for any rough conditions on the lake or in the bay.

The next flurry was to soften me up to ask for money. Don't ask me what he planned to do with the money because I don't know. All I do know that it wasn't to be applied to bills to get out of debt as he claimed. You see, I do know he is fiscally irresponsible. I just don't know what the OW wanted - this time.

Baby steps. I don't think so. Conniving and manipulative steps, I know so. It is my belief that my H is one of those that Michelle talked about when she said their minds are already made up when they walk out and they have no intention of ever returning. He has never deviated from his statement that he doesn't want to be married and that this marriage is dead and it is over. Nothing I do or say makes a difference. Oh yes, he notices my changes and he likes them. He knows they are permanent after 17 months of separation and observation. However, my changes are not sufficient to bring him home. At this point in time, he won't even be seen with me in public.

All my "baby steps" turned out to be were more emotional and sexual battering rams at an already battered, almost dead, LBS. I know this sounds bitter. I don't mean for it to be that way. It is simply the truth.

My suggestion to everyone would be to look closely, not only for the baby steps, but to look for a pattern in those steps to make sure what is seen is a true baby step and not a spouse taking more advantage of an already bad situation.

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Hi all...

Here's a list I've posted on my thread on separated - I found it quite useful to make myself focus on the positive responses/reactions I'm getting, rather than the negatives of the situation...

It's too easy to get bogged down in the mire, and after all, "what we focus on expands"

* V. day card and roses
* Took me to his parents' house as a change of scenery
* Called me twice when working in States recently
* Always tells me he loves me "lots and lots and lots"
* Says he can't imagine ever being with anyone else
* Says he can see us getting married some day
* Stays in my bed and cuddles
* Says he thinks I'm v. talented
* He's concerned about my welfare when I go away to London
* Tells me I'm gorgeous
* Says I've got a better bum than Kylie LOL
* Told me he'd take me to Italy if I want to go
* He's "not ruling out" the idea of having children (!!) V. much ruling this out before...
* Says he wants me to go away with him to work 100%
* When I was sick on holiday and went into the other room, he followed me and sat with me until I felt well enough to go back to bed (although I was suspicious after that - what didn't he want me to check on his mobile phone, which he had no need to bring?...)
* Says he loves to hear me singing - makes him realise how much he loves me
* He's agreed to write with me
* When he was last here, he came to my house to let me know he had to go back to work early, instead of just going and leaving me wondering
* He brought the aftershave I bought him for christmas with him, and sneaked upstairs to put it on. When I commented that it smelt nice, he said he was trying to do the right thing
* He brought a video and popcorn and cakes just because "they looked funny" and he wanted to make me happy
* He promised to ring me when he got through with work that weekend, and he did, then called again midweek
* Always says I smell nice when he hugs me

I hope to be able to add to this list....!

Mel



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Me again!

Just something I read in a comedy/fantasy novel recently, which made me smile:


(Scene: A street in Ankh Morpork, pre-rebellion...)

A match flared in the dark, and they turned to see Vimes light a cigar.

"You'd like Freedom, Truth and Justice, wouldn't you, comrade sergeant?" said Reg encouragingly.

"I'd like a hard-boiled egg", said Vimes, shaking the match out.

There was some nervous laughter, but Reg looked offended.

"In the circumstances, sergeant, I think we should set our standards a little higher - "

"Well, yes, we could, said Vimes, coming down the steps. "But...well, Reg, tomorrow the sun will come up again, and I'm pretty sure that whatever happens we won't have found Freedom, and there won't be a whole lot of Justice, and I'm da*n sure we won't have found Truth. But it's just possible that I might get a hard-boiled egg..."

(In the end, Vimes got his hard-boiled egg - thinking small pays off )

Hope it makes you smile too...
Mel


It's time to live, it's time to love, it's time to do what's afraid of It's time to breathe, time to relieve, it's time to shine
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Thanks Mellers! I thought this was great!

Sometimes, too, we might want to appreciate getting the raw egg that we have to hard-boil ourselves!


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I'd take an old hen that might lay an egg

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My Small Positive Steps in the Journey of a Thousand Miles:

1. W agreed to a date with me - which turned out into an almost 12 hour event which we both thouroughly enjoyed.
2. W has been complementing me on my looks, is attracted to me. Starts to be protective of me, when in public.
3. W is relaxed around me - we joke and laugh constantly
4. W is able to clearly and objectively look at her past relationships and have a sense of closure, knowing they are over and that they were diversions in her journey.
5. W expressed a desire to immediately start individual councelling to help her deal with personal issues.
6. W has learned to respect herself sexually - The meaningless one-night-stands may very well be the thing of the past. She contantly demonstrates how responsible she has become in that regard.
7. W is starting to make our D more of a priority, she misses our D more and is open to spending more time with her on the days that D is with me (something she NEVER did in the past).
8. W has been calling me frequently to chat about everyday matters. She confides in me and has become much more talkative than she used to be in the past.
9. A lot of past guilts and hurts have dissolved. We are able to talk about the past with a sense of relief and understanding that we have forgiven each other.
10. My relationship with W's family has greatly improved. W is not nervous about inviting me to meetings with her family. MIL enjoys my company and shares personal matters, which I had been excluded from in the past.

I hope it helps.

U.


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Compared to the other posts on this thread, my baby steps seem pretty small, but I will post them anyway, because every little bit helps.

1. Several comfortable conversations in last several weeks
2. a kiss on Easter Sunday
3. Tells me that I'm doing a great job with the children and that he's very proud of me for that
4. We have laughed together quite a few times in last several weeks
5. Still confiding in me like he always has (told me about a bad dream he had, his doctor's appointment)
6. Several spontaneous displays of affection
7. Told me that the house looks great (I've really been working on it)


So, there are some of the things I've noticed. Some days it's hard to decide if they are truly baby steps or just H settling into the "let's be amicable through all this" role. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Mockers2

P.S. A summary of my situation: together 11 yrs, married for 5 yrs; separated since 2/03; 2 children less than 3 yrs of age. More info in "Newcomers" under "New here"


Mockers2 "Somehow we survive, and tenderness frustrated does not wither." Dennis Brutus, South African poet "That which does not kill us makes us stronger." Friedrich Nietzsche
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mockers2 -

Compared to the other posts on this thread, my baby steps seem pretty small, but I will post them anyway, because every little bit helps.

I don't believe that there are ANY baby steps that are "too small"! Small changes lead into BIGGER changes! Keep on recognizing them, keep on appreciating them, and keep on posting them!!!

What have you been doing that has helped to make some of these "baby steps" happen?

Don't discount any "baby steps" that you've been making yourself to cause changes in your relationship. I'm sure that you have been doing something different that has helped you to see some progress.

What ARE these things?! Please share them with us!!


JJ

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JJ,
Thank you for your comments, and for this thread. It really helps to review and think concretely about the principles. Also, hearing others' ideas often makes a lightbulb go on in my head, just like someone said it would. I am very thankful to have found DR and this board.
Now for a baby step from this AM: H and I met at school to drop off the children. (H worked last night and was running late, so not enough time to come by the house.) After getting the children settled, we said our usual "have a good day" and headed off. I was feeling very low (alot of anger from the day before, and some sadness creeping in), and started to cry when I got into my car. I pulled out my phone to call a friend who is supportive, and before I could dial, it rang. H was calling "to see how last night went." (The kids and I go to that same friend's house every Wed. night if H isn't working - part of keeping myself busy.) We talked about our evenings, and laughed. I guess we talked for almost ten minutes! God knew I really needed a boost!
Things I have been doing that may be making these baby steps possible:
1. acting upbeat
2. trying to be his friend w/no pressure (tough to keep from getting my hopes up - I hide this from him, just not from myself. Not yet fully detatching?)
3. being a good listener - no interrupting, no finishing his sentences, validating his opinions and feelings without giving my own; listening without thinking of what I'll say next
4. trying to appear (and then to really be) serene, calm, confident
5. discussing things calmly without showing the anger (rage, fury sometimes I feel inside (able to do this when H told me about OP - God literally holding me up)

Some things I have stopped doing (they weren't working):
1. pursuing
2. personalizing his behavior
3. trying to convince H that we really have a great marriage compared to others, that we should try to work on things, go to Retrovaille, etc.
4. saying ILY, unless he says it first

These are a few things I've been up to. Any input is greatly appreciated. Thanks again to everyone who is here sharing a tough time. M


Mockers2 "Somehow we survive, and tenderness frustrated does not wither." Dennis Brutus, South African poet "That which does not kill us makes us stronger." Friedrich Nietzsche
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mockers2 -

I think that the things you listed that you have, and haven't, been doing is great!! You've done a fine job with these!

A lot of these things you listed are easier said than done, but you've been doing them, and it looks like you're getting some good results!!

Keep up the great work, and keep on keepin' on!


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Up we go!!!


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Quoting Jamesjohn:
Are you getting so wrapped-up in the big picture that you are overlooking some of the small stuff? That's me, I have to be constantly reminded that there has been baby steps because I'm looking to the finish line

Are you failing to recognize some of the small, "baby steps", that are happening? Yes, I try, but it takes someone else to keep pointing them out to me. I always want to be in a hurry.

When something "good" happens, do you often find yourself thinking, "Well, that was nice, but it's not enough, and I want more"? Yes, what is my problem? I should be happy with what I am getting. I'm having that problem right now, big time-HELP! I don't want to say or ask to much and scare H away!

What things happen that may seem insignificant to you at the time, but may actually be a sign that your partner is softening up to you? I realized yesterday that the last time he was over he offered to share a soda with me, In fact he insisted on it even when I said I didn't want anymore. So I gave in and did what he asked. Realized later that maybe he was trying to be intimate? Am I right. H comes and does some weed wacking, took D fishing once. Seems to want to receive hugs and a few kisses. I need help, is this enough are not? Is he ready to hear that I want to work on M?

Quoting Michele:
What will be the very first sign that things are starting to move in the right direction?

What are your thoughts about small changes leading to other changes?


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November 6th I began following Divorce Remedy tools w/o backslides.

1. Called me first day I stopped signing onto AOL at work. wanted to see where I was.
2.Text messaged me wishing me fun over weekend while I was visiting a friend.
3.emailed me asking about my weekend with friend then called me later that night to discuss in more detail.
4.Text messaged me 2 more times that week to let me know she has been sick
5.Text messaged me asking me to go out for lunch with her and wound up spending whole day together.
6.Text messaged me following day to tell me she was gonna be home sick the next day
7.Text messaged me night before thanksgiving to wish me a happy Turkey day and I replied back so she called me later that night.
8.She visited me at my new part/time holiday job with her 2 sisters at the mall. This mall is farther from her house so I hope she came purposley for me.

There has been a few other small things and positive moments 2 other times I saw her this month, once because I had to pick something up and the other was to give her her birthday presents, and one day I signed onto AOL for the first time in a month just to say hi and we had a very busy yet light fun conversation.

Im doing my best to keep her being the first to initiate contact with me, but once in a while I do make a small offer to say hi because Im not at the stage where I think I should go totally black. I want her to miss me.

Im getting impatient and nervous with christmas coming up and 2 months away is valentines day and a week from that is our 8 yr anniversary. Wish me luck everyone.


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Just a quick note. In previous months, especially October there were severl occasions which caused us to see eachother very often and there were more positive signs then but I ended October on a bad note with starting to get depressed and made it visible to her which led to the "I love you but not in love with you" line. Hearing this caused me to find out about Divorce remedy but part of me feels like, I know a big thing has been her independance right now but part of me wants to try seeing her once in a while and taking those moments to apply my new tools and not show signs of depression or question her phone use.

I am so torn as to what to do. I want to be around her so I can show her I can be strong and fun to be with but I also dont want to be pushy. hmm, Im so confused. I know there is a solution, I just wish I had infinite wisdom and knew the answer so I can just do it already! ha ha. Any tips?


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marc_d,

Good luck, it sounds like you're on your way!! She seems to be reponding to you. That's a good sign.

at least she is calling and thinking about you. To me that would be a big plus in my book.

My H and I had an eavening together in Oct. and since then, things have really gone down hill.

I'm a little confused with that right now. I've been detaching, giving himhis space, acting asif, and nothing

seems to be working.

Hang in there, it sounds lilke you'r on the right track.

JME

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Ok, I'll give it a shot. I am still in the stage of being pessimistic to whether or not these are "baby steps":

* I asked him not to call me anymore, he now calls me everyday sometimes 3-5 times.(nothing personal, but nothing important either)

* We rotate visitation with the kids at the house (I am there, he leaves, he is there, I leave for 3-4 days at a time) This was his first rotation here he cleaned the entire house, shoveled the driveway and cleaned off my car. (lots of snow here this weekend)He even did all MY laundry for me!

* While he was here, every picture of us together was moved like he had picked them up and looked at them.(I am anal about their placement and they have all been moved but only the pics of us together)

* He is talking to me like he used to when we were married. Same voice tones, etc.

* Had been refusing to discuss his A with anyone. Broke down and told a mututal friend that he didn't know why he did it and he is all "screwed up" in the head right now.

* Called last night and asked if he could ask me a question, when I said yes he wanted to know why I didn't sound as happy "to" him as the day before. He sounded genuinely concerned and asked if did something wrong.

So, not sure if these are baby steps but a week and a half ago he NEVER called me and refused to set foot in our house. The things that I have been doing different is no matter how much of an emotional mess I am, I always make sure I look good. I am being happy, positive and appreciative of everything he does for me. The biggest 180 for me was telling him not to call me anymore. That is not like me at all. I told him he could contact me through email unless there was an emergency. He hasn't stopped calling since. But again, I am pessimistic after hearing for 3 weeks the "I don't love you anymore" and "I want a D".

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Wow, I really think you are doing great! 3-5 phone calls a day for no reason at all? Thats great! I think you should try to sound happy when talking to him though but see if he starts to come around more, if not, maybe dont answer all his phone calls. Let some go to your machine. Dont block him out completley though, just make him a little curious. Good luck!


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Thanks Marc. It isn't everyday that he calls that much. On the average it is 1 or 2 times. I think he might have taken another "baby step" this morning.

He had agreed to help me in the mornings to get our daughter on the bus. He said he would come over and wait in the driveway. Well, this was his first morning doing it and he got here 25 minutes early, walked in and greeted me with a cheery "good morning" and proceeded to put out the trash and recycling for tomorrow's pick up. That is a big jump from waiting out in the driveway in his truck. When he left he said he would see me tomorrow. We have to take our daughter to Joslin so we have to ride together. I was hesitant at first, but now I decided to put my best db'ing foot forward and make the most of the time I have to be cheery and act "as if".

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JME, Thanks for your praise and best of luck to you with your situation. I know haveing patience is the hardest part of this for just about everyone. Can I ask you a question because I need a females advice, and this is open to any other women here. One night in October I went clubbing with my GF and her sisters and some friends of theirs. I was feeling a little down because she was dancing with some of her girl friends instead of me when we used to stick to eachother like glue, but I had a couple beers and lightened up a little. Anyways, When I took her home I ipened the door for her and her sister. Her sister went into the house and as I was holding the door, my GF hugged me from the back. and then she came around and went inside and gave me a regular hug too as we said goodnight. I know friends give hugs at times which is what I get concerned with occasionally that she just wants to be friends even though I doubt she can forget our wonderful 7 years together. But the hug from behind, that seemed like something more than just a friendly hug to me. AS a woman, what do you think? If you had a man friend, would you go up behind him and hug him in this way? Please help me verify this. Thanks!!


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I know its hard, but its all we can do. We have to act happy somehow. And I TRULY understand how hard it is to se all the baby steps. I understand the ideas behind them and it makes sense but I want more and Im sure everyone here does as well. Stay strong and do everything you can without backslides. Good luck!


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You are right about wanting more, I think we all want more. Like I said, I am going to try and put my best db'ing into action for the time that I have to be with him.

Just caught up on your sitch. Sounds like you are awesome and getting some great baby steps! Keep up the good work!

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thanks for the support! it really helps! Quick question for you, did you see what I said about the hug? What do you think of that as a woman?


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Marc- I would not give a man friend a hug from behind. To me, as a woman, those are "intimate" hugs. Now that is just me and my opinion. But I see that as as step towards more intimacy.

If anyone has another opinion, please feel free to correct me.

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You know, another thing she has done in the past is while at the store together, she would ask my opinion for lingerie and one time she went shopping with her mom and bought a bunch of new underware and she showed me when I came over her house.

This was a little while ago now, but it confuses me. She isnt affectionate with me in the sense we dont hug much or kiss but she does things like that.

Im trying to figure out if I should start asking her out a little more to try and build up positive moments between us again. I know it will require me to not be upset if she cancels or if were together and she gets a phone call from a possible guy friend. I trust her and know nothing is going on deep down but I have to learn to control my negative emotions.

I guess I should see how things go since I will be with her tommorow night at a concert and then all day Friday. I gotta be tough with my feelings and be the man she used to love again! I just cant wait to get back together so I can apply all these new relationship skills I have learned. Heres hoping a Christmas miracle is around the corner!


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Well, everyone is different, but I would say that if I was showing a man my new underwear and asking lingerie opinions, I was trying to be enticing and flirtatious. Other than the hugs she gave you, has she initiated anyother time for affection or have you?

My main story is under the infidelity forum. It would great to a man's opinion on the actions vs. words coming from my H. I have some great support there......but a man's opinion is always appreciated!!

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Hmmm. She hasnt really done anything more than that but we havent seen eachother much latley becaus eI started to back off much more because that night she hugged me, the following weekend I saw her for my birthday and we mainly went out to celebrate her sisters b-day. I didnt get much attention and got upset so I was pouting which I know she noticed.

The weekend after that we went to the Halloween parade in NYC and slept over at her sisters apartment. I slept on the floor and she shared a bed with another girl. When that girl woke up she asked me if I wanted to lay down in the bed and later that day she made me something to eat too. I screwed up at dinner cause she was text messaging someone and I had to be nosy and ask who shes talking to. This has been a main problem for me and she didnt like it. I apologized and I think she moved on.

Later that night we went to another party and we were seperated at the table but she text messaged me a few times which made me happy but then I got upset over time cause she was hanging with one of her friends more than me. and then she had a phone call and I was getting jealous and anxious to know who it was. After that I became quiet and she noticed it again. She came over to me and tried to joke around with me too. I had a toy gun on me cause it was a costume party and she made a very adult gesture to the gun too which made me laugh but I was still upset.

After that night I talked to her about our relationship and I asked her if there is anything she isnt telling me to not hurt my feelings. ( I was being paranoid by the phone use she made and was afraid she had feelings for someone else, ehich I REALLY REALLY dont believe logically) she told me just that she loves me so much but isnt in love with me which I assumed most of the time since we have been on a break. If she had the loving feelings we would be back together.

After that I backed off a lot and I only saw her 3 times. She asked me out once, another day I came over cause of her birthday and another night i had to drop something off and she seemed happy to see me.

During our break there were moments where we would hug or she would kis me on the cheek one night while on vacation and asked me to share the same bed with her. Also on vacation she held my hand once and joined me in a hammock. I screwed up many times after that though because I would rush things.

I think if I can be patient, this could work. Sorry to ramble but there is so much to tell. I will go look for your situation now. Thanks!


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Well, she seems to really confused. It seems that she wants you in her life, then she's not really sure. Keep up whatever you are doing, it sounds like you are doing really well. Sad as it is, patience is key. I wish they sold patience in a bottle..........

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ha ha, I agree! You know how this all started? there was an argument that caused the initial break but a week earlier her mother got re-located to North Carolina for work and on our break her family was on her back a lot about her going out and questioning where I am and practically trying to cotroll her. She had pressure from her family and me and I think it was rough. Anyways, She hasnt told her family yet because they love me so much and she is afraid of them coming down hard on her. I also hope its because she doesnt want to admit it yet either. But I do think if she tells them, I can talk to them alone sometime and explain not to give her a hard time so that she isnt pressured.

I dont think she wants me out of her life but is trying to figure out some other issues in her life. She also wants to move into New York City where she works, we both live in new jersey now. I mentioned once I wish i could move in with her and she liked the idea but My family would be really against it so i ruled it out and eventually I even didnt show support for her move which hurt her. I screwed up a lot by not being there for her but now is my final chance. I want to go slow and not pressure her but at the same time I want to spend time with her to remind her how I can be now that I am stronger emotionally.



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Well, I just read over your situation and I can only imagine how difficult this is. But I agree that I think your h view is being clouded right now and he is being defensive since you cought him. I think you need to just be very nice to him and make him feel guilty. I know its hard but just put on an act. I think in time he will realize what he did was wrong and start to come around. You are in this for the long haul but I think you can do it! Just be patient as we always say here. And try to be as kind as you can to him even though he may not deserve it. Wish I could be more help.


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Marc- Thanks for checking it out. I think he is already feeling guilty and that is why he is going out of his way to do things for me. And I know that his anger is him being defensive. I am sure that he is ashamed of his behavior as he should be. I just feel like I am getting mixed messages from him and that he is playing head games as I stated in my thread. I don't know......that old patience in a bottle would sure come in handy right now!

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I totally understand you! I bought a book about patience but I think I might return it. I was hoping for a quick cure but apparently there isnt one. I guess there is nothing we can do except keep waiting things out and have faith. Needless to say it wont be easy at all, but what other choice do we have? Keep up your good work and I wish you lots of luck. I hope I will have good things to report after this weekend since I will be seeing my GF Tommorow night for a concert and all day Friday.


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I hope you have good things to report to. I get to spend about 1/2 today taking our daughter to Joslin in Boston. So, I get to ride up and back with H. This should be interesting, I am going to *try* to DB my butt off and not think of him and OW.

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Im sure Im not saying anything new, but just try to look at him as a friend only and make sure you do some major thought stopping! I hope you have a good technique for this. If any thoughts come into your head, remember not to say anything because you know if you do it will put you back a few steps and you will regret it later.

I hope I can follow my own advice! I havent really seen or talked to her much this whole month so I hope it allows both of us to have a lot to talk about and I really hope she missed me. Mornings are always rough for me. I am a little pessimistic right now but Im gonna go work on getting those thoughts out and pump myself up for tonight. I look forward to hearing how things go with you! Take care!


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Did anyone else but me have to smile when they read:

I bought a book about patience but I think I might return it. I was hoping for a quick cure but apparently there isn't one.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not laughing at you, Marc. I just think that it's funny that we all know that we need patience, but want a quick fix to get there! We're all in the same boat. Hang in there....

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One thing I have to try to pound into my head is that my GF told me that she never had serious doubts about us until I kept questioning our situation and pressuring her when we were getting back together. I feel like if she believed that then, I would like to think that those feelings should still be there but they are just a little clouded.

I am not trying to discount her feelings, but this whole situation is hard for me to believe still because she was SOOOOOOO very much into me. Im not trying to blow my own horn but she was head over heels for me. She used to tell me how she would go crazy if I left her, etc. Well, she is known to be a very fiery person. If someone really upsets her, she shuts them out and I didnt make the most of the opportunities we did have to open her eyes to me again so Im gonna give it my all now.

The only other part that scares me is I feel like its the beginning and Im trying to win her heart. I hated doing it the first time around and now Im afraid I forgot what to do. It has been almost 8 years ago! Ok, well I obviously was keeping her around for those many years by being myself and having a good sense of humor so Im gonna try to show that to her, but I also dont want to come on too strong. Wish me luck that I can find a balance! Thanks!


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Hey Pamela, I know you arent laughing at me. I guess I didnt have the patience to read the book about learning patience! ha ha.


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Hi Marc. Today didn't go all that well. You can see what happened under my infidelity thread. I am ready to give up. I just want this over with now.

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I need help please! Ok, well this weekend I saw my GF from Thursday night all day Friday and Saturday and for like 2 hours on Sunday because We had concert tickets on Thursday and Friday we went into NYC to celebrate her birthday and stayed over her sisters apartment and we all hanged out in the city on Saturday. Anyways, I know some things bothered her for her birthday party and she wasnt too interested in partying that night in the first place but some people didnt socialize or didnt show at all and one time when she was talking to a man friend of hers, her sister went up and kind of bitched to her that she was being rude by showing too much attention to him. I know this really pissed her off. I tried to cheer her up a little. I must admit I was dissapointed because I wanted more attention from her but she did have to try to spend time with everyone. She even told me that she was mad at this guy because he came and just sat on the couch with his friend instead of dancing or anything and then they didnt saty long. she told me thats what she was talking about to him. I know she didnt have as good of a time as she hoped for. She has been really looking forward to celebrating her 25th birthday because she feels like turning 25 is such a major thing, and it didnt turn out like she wanted.

Anyways, In a way I did good this weekend by not questioning who she was talking or text messaging on the phone like I did in the past, or blowing up on her myself when she was talking to her guy friend at the club. I was pissed but I tried to keep cool. All I did was show her I was happy even though I was sad at times. She just seemed so down in the dumps over everything. I know she kept telling me she was tired and grumpy because she didnt have enough sleep most of the weekend and we were very busy doing different things. We werent supposed to hang out on Sunday but I went X-mas shopping and she called me to tell me that she was out shopping by herself because her sister bailed on her so I asked if she was coming to the mall if she would like to meet up so we did. We got some pizza and talked about her sisters and her problems with them. She has been saying how she doesnt like to think about the future latley or that she doesnt think positive anymore because her hopes keep getting knocked down. I asked her what keeps knocking her down and she said its just the things we were discussing. (which was about her family not giving her any privacy and intruding on her life)Im afraid she is getting into a depression. I asked her If I can help somehow to let me know because I hate to see her unhappy. She just shrugs it off and acts like there is nothing to do. I tried to keep my happy act up for her and joked around a little and things actually seemed a little lighter than when we first met up. I even made her laugh about the way she was acting because she seemed so angry, even at the items she was shopping for.

Well, Finally let me get to the point here. Seeing her so negative put a huge toll on me and scared the crap out of me. I want to help her but I dont know how. She mentioned that she should be seeing a therapist instead of me because she has these problems and i jumped at the chance to invite her to my counsler but I doubt she will take the offer. I mentioned it briefly but then she got a hpne call from her sister and I think we dropped it after that. Id like to bring it back up again but not act as though Im pressuring her but she needs help!

Part of me wants to go against what is taught here and have a discussion with her about our relationship and try to convince her how good everything was. Im not blind, I know she loved me and everything was great between us. She was border line obsessed with me. I just mean that for 7 years we acted like we just started dating. I feel like this 7 month break is making things worse and we are drifting farther apart. I say this because I backed off a lot 1 1/2 months ago and at first I got text messages, phone calls, and some emails but it seemed to dwindle towards the end. I know I had some backslides during the 7 months but I dont feel like they were soo horrible that they would have made things even worse. I guess I should take this weekend as one of the down times there will be but I cant convince myself that! I have known her for a very long time and I know how she is. When she wants to block something out, she does and can forget about it.

I know she used to have a best friend that screwed her over too many times so she just closed the door on her and never talked to her again, and I know Im not in that boat so I guess I should be greatful but Im not. I want more and I am losing all patience! Im tired of waiting! I want to talk to her and start working on things. I feel like there has to be another way, like there is something I should say that I didnt before. I feel like I need to come up with some words to sweep her off her feet and not make it seem selfish of me. Im so confused.

Im afraid that she is going to drift farther and farther away from me even though I know many of her problems are with her family but she is punishing me it feels like at times. I know I wasnt perfect in the beginning of the split by adding pressure or questioning her when she would be going out so much. but I have to do something!! she told me on Thursday before the concert that she thought i was moving on because of 2 events. The first time was at a club some girl started talking to me but I really didnt talk back much at all. I eventually moved away from her. The other time was a friend of her friend asked to hold my arm on Halloween in the city to stop guys from howling at her. I told her I wasnt moving on in that way at all. I cant lose her!!! I am so freaking scared that she is going to just ignore all of this because she is like a closed door when it comes to her emotions. Please help me!!! What should I do?!?! I have to talk to her. I have to convince her. I just need to find the words.


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Ok, ok. I think I have been selfish. I just talked to my close friend who has been helping me with all of this for a while now and he gave me very good advice. I can see that she is going through a depression and confornting her with my relationship questions might add more of a burden on her and do more harm than good.

My friend helped convince me that I need to start being un-selfish and try to help her through her other problems and If I can do that, then she will see how much I care and it could bring her back to me. This makes sense in a way right ladies? Its the same idea of rebound relationships? When someone shows a person going through a rough time lots of support and understanding, they go right to them, so why cant I have a rebound relationship with her?

Her situation is just so hard and I dont know exaclty how to help her out of her problems but hopefully I can learn a way to make her look at her problems with more optimism and maybe cheer her up somehow when she feels down. What do you think everyone? I know my previous post was very different than this one, but I was placing too much hope assuming great things were going to happen and when they didnt, I felt like crap. I need to learn to show nothing but support for her and be patient!


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Well, I have to take action now. I am going to talk to her older sister today about her backing off as well. Incase you dont know, my GF has not told her family about us yet. She knows they will blame her and be mad at her because they love me too much. I too know that this will be their reaction. Anyways, Her sisters have been harrassing her when she is on the phone with friends or when she goes out without me and they always bug her about me. Any improvements I make, her sisters just ruin it for me still because If Im not pressuring her, they are.

My GF is really upset after this weekend though because while celebrating her b-day at a club, her sister yelled at her for talking to one of her guy friends too much. She told me she was talking to him because she was mad that he came and just sat there the whole time with his friend and they didnt dance or anything. It really upset her that she got yelled at for talking to her freind. She feels like she is not allowed to have any friends and she cant do anything unless its with me. She feels that she isnt looked on as an individual, but as part of a couple and this is really bothering her. Her sisters also told her it looked like she was ignoring me at the club because she was dancing with her friends and really didnt show much attention to me. I knew to expect that, and it did bother me a little too but I know not to say anything but now her sisters are.

Anyways, I dont know what my GF is waiting for so I am going to tell her oldest sister that she needs some space. My GF is very angry and she has been telling me that she feels hopeless and she hates her life. She has told me this several times and I dont want her to feel like this anymore so Im stepping in.


One other positive thing, I finally started talking to her friend about my situation, not trying to get her on my side, but just to see if she had any input on how I can help January and she said she thinks its more of a problem with her sisters than me because thats what she is always complaining about. But her friend didnt know that she has been saying she hates her life and how hopeless she feels. In a way I feel good because it shows that my GF is telling me more than her friends. It shows that she can be more open to me than everyone else.

Well, I will be talking to her sister at lunch today so I will probably be back later with a report on how it went. I just pray that she will be understanding and I can appeal to her caring side. Wish me luck everyone!


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Well, it seems like no one is paying attention to my story anymore but Ill keep posting incase someone bites. It will be nice to get some support. =) Well I spoke to my GF sister last night over dinner and she was quite upset over it all and furious with her sister as I knew she would be. Thats why my GF was afraid of telling anyone. Well, I like to think thats part of the reason and also because she doesnt want to admit it either.

Well, I was able to appeal to her sisters rational side and convince her to stop pressuring her about me and also to lay off of her in general. She doesnt feel that she should have to bite her tounge because her sister doesnt want to take responsibilty for anything and I told her I agree that its not fair, but how fair do you think it is for me? Im the one getting the most punishment out of this. At least they are sisters and nothing can ever change that, but Im the one that can be replaced.

We both agree that my relationship with my GF has been so strong and we have always been so close and together for 7 years, that my GF isnt going to forget all that and deep down we believe that in time she will come around but unfortunatley, we need to leave her be to think things out for herself. At least now that I stopped pressuring her, and without much pressure from her family, hopefully she will finally have time to think about what she has been doing.

She has just been so defensive to everyone latley she hasnt had time to think about the situation, and in the beginning she was keeping herself busy by going out all the time in a way to avoid the topic. She has always been like this since I knew her and even her sister said ever since she was a little kid she has been like this also. She is very stubborn. I hate that about her, but at the same time, I love it about her.

Please pray for me everyone. I dont know what else I can do now. I know I will act upbeat in her presence, and I think I will send her a card once in a while or some contact to ask how she is and to let her know I care but nothing mushy.

She still does things in my presence that shows how comfortable she feels around me still, and she tells me more than her friends about her problems, so I just need to be there for her and hope she comes to her senses soon. Our anniversary is a week after valentines day so I hope that with those events approaching, she will really start to remenis.


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You're not alone Marc. Sounds like things look positive for a reconciliation down the road. Someone on this BB has a quote that says something along the lines of "maybe we are apart now so that we can be together forever". Seems appropriate in your sitch.

God Bless and my prayers are with you.

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Thanks you so much! It really means alot to hear that. I love that saying too! Those are definatley words to live by in a time like this. And your right, I truly believe in my heart that when she is not so confused over everything, she will start to come back to me. Thanks again!


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You know, at times I get scared and impatient because of the length of our seperation going on for 7 months now but I know there are differences with my seperation that could be viewed as positive besides all the positive small signs.

Such as, she wanted a break after a big fight we had. She didnt want to deal with it, plus her mother moved to North Carolina from NJ the week before. She immediatley started going out with people from work and making new friends in a way to avoid her problems. Doing this then caused problems at home because it was looked on as though she wasnt helping out at all since her mother left. Plus there was pressure from me to go out with me more often.

She always told me she had faith in us and had no plans to break up with me, she wanted to spend her life with me no matter what, but I didnt know how to deal with a seperation and it scared me so I kept looking for reassurances and made her doubt things.

Well, I hope now that I have backed off and if her family can be nicer towards her she can maybe stop running soon. I know she has been ignoring everything and has been trying to do things to occupy her mind. I hope she will soon start thinking about things. Ill be spending X-mas eve at her house with her family so I hope to make a great impression there and will keep working my ass off for her.


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Hey everyone. Well I made a little mistake but not with my GF, but with her sister. For those who have been reading my situation, you know I discussed the situation with my GF oldest sister a few days ago in an attempt to relieve some stress she is getting at home about where I am and why she is going out with her friends more than me because they dont know yet.

Anyways, Since I told her I thought maybe I could look to her as another person for support. BIG MISTAKE!! I talked to her about things over lunch today and she is too pessimistic about things. I know I have to focus on myself at this time which I have! But also part of the changes I have made are to influence my GF too yes, but they are also making me happier too and thats what matters. Anyways, she is too negative towards the situation and is angry at her sister and doesnt appreciate that my GF is going through some rough emotional times, and I think thats mainly because her family is a big part of the problem. She is already mad at my GF so I think she is too biased. She doesnt trust her and I noticed this many times before. Deep down I guess I know I shouldnt listen to her but Im always looking for more support and encouragement but I guess I need to be more careful on who I ask for it.

I spoke to my good friend who I have been sharing everything with, and even though he has never read DB books, he has all the same answers. He helped me forget about what she said somewhat but I guess I need more reassurance.

Her sister scared me a little because her friend told her a few weeks is a break, but after 7 months its more like a break-up, but I dont think they understand the situation.

Really quick, for the first 3-4 months my GF told me she always planned on being with me but she just wanted time to herself to make new friends and stuff. I never was truly supportive of it and kept questioning our Relationship and it eventually made her think I had doubts which gave her doubts. So after getting the I love you but not in love with you speech I realized I am not doing something right and I bought this book and saw counseling.

Since then I have backed off and she has opened lines of contact occasionally andthere have been moments where I felt her coming around but I know I backslided once in a while. and 1 1/2 months ago she hugged me from behind after a night out when i dropped her off. Thats definatley a sign of affection.

Anyways, I know my official no more backsliding started November 1st and it started out great but all the distance I was giving her made her family question her more and more and now she feels like she is being controlled by them and that she cant be an individual. Like she is supposed to be with me according to them. There has just been so many obstacles and mistakes on both ends which has delayed us so many times.

I guess what Im getting too is, time isnt always a factor right? Sometimes it just takes a little while to get to achieve your goal. My friend told me if I can focus on being her best friend right now and helping her through her family problems and so on, that that will make a big impact on her and that with all of what we have together from the past 7 years will be sure to bring us back.

Any support is very much welcome. please.


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Another one of those days. =( Im just very depressed today and I have been all weekend. I went away to visit a friend hoping to cheer me up but it didnt happen. I couldnt help but think about things most of the weekend. I try to keep reminding myself how she told me in the beginning she still wanted to spend the rest of her life with me but just wanted a break. Although that changed after several months of questioning and pressure on my end, and she told me she wasnt sure anymore. Im trying to tell myself that she felt so strong about us for over 7 years and for the first few months of the break, than I can get those feelings back if I work hard but I feel overwhelmed and scared! Im so afraid. I just want to have a deep heart to heart talk to her and try to convince her to work things out with me. I LOVE HER and I need to have her in my life. This is killing me.


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I can sympathize with you. My H is the person I love more than anyone on this earth. I love God first and then my H, then kids, etc. I can tell you though that the DBing starts to work but like everyone told me it takes patience. I have yet to receive the book but I have been on this board reading and posting, trying to learn as fast as I can. If you can afford it, a telephone C can help at least to get some live feedback from people who really know what they are doing fist of all, and then to coach you through this to help you stay focused.

My H loves me, says he loves me and cares for me. But he too is on the fence about coming home. H had an affair and when he didn't end it right after I found out, I followed the example of a friend of his that threw his W out and she came begging back. My H did not want to move out and called me to come over to the house when he did. I was angry and hoping he would learn his lesson, but it hasn't worked out like that and now I cry about what I did though he tells me it ws the right thing under the circumstances.

Have faith and patience. Get the DR/DB book and start setting some goals thats what C got me doing and what others on the board got me to get going to do.

If Jesus is you lord, pray and ask Him to pray for you and your W/marriage.

Eventhough H had the affair, and there were many undersirable ways of relating to me that caused me to withdraw from him, I have had to really face my own stinkieness and slog through the molassases of regret and recognition. Do this, look at yourself, ask those hard q's as I can see that by doing so, I have accepted a few things that H was upset about and because I am less defensive about them we are going to be able to communicate a lot better, which is something we had trouble doing, talking to eachother about sensitive subjects.

I work each minute it seems to detach, my heart hurts like heck, I cry and think that it is over and then I get back up, determined that I will give this the best shot possible and work to get our marriage back, my H back in the home and loving me and letting me love him.

SO think about C telephone, get DR book IMMEDIATELY and read the forums that have Michelle's 1 and 2nd chapters on line if you can't. The second chapter is posted on this forum now, I believe. Work on yourself. Really try.

God Bless your committment to keep your marrige together.
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Well everyone, on I have a question that is scaring me. On December 12th I went to a concert with my GF, and before it started she asked me if I was still seeing a therapist. I downplayed it and said I was but I might be stopping soon. I said this becasue I didnt want to show her I was still so upset. She also then brought up 2 other situations. One night while at a club with her and other friends, a girl started talking to me but I eventually was able to move away from her because it was uncomfortable for me. Also on Halloween night a friend of her friend asked to hold my arm while in NYC because lots of guys were howling at her so I was a gentleman and agreed.

Anyways, my GF mentioned these 2 events on the 12th of december before the concert and said she was like, "ok, he's moving on". I told her that this was not the caseof me moving on. If anything I was on the recieving end but the 2nd case I was just being a gentleman. She also asked me how my reaction would be if there was someone else she was interested in, but she immediatley followed that by saying there was'nt, but she just wants to know how I would react. I just made a joke and said I would be supportive and tell you if you fall off the horse to get right back on again.

Of course I didnt mean this!! But I dont want to tell her no either. My Counsler said she thinks that she is just maybe testing the waters with me and seeing how I am feeling, and its not that she is looking to move on necessarily.

There were many times in our relationship where my GF would discuss things about our future and committment but I guess I never gave back enough reassurance to her for this and part of me feels like it is also a cause and if I can show her I want to commit and how serious I am for her that it might help too. I dont know. Im just so lost and confused.


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Well my GF called me last night on my way home from work and told me her whole family is asking for me and if I would want to come over that night. At first I hesitated but she said her family would all be like, "WHY?!" So I said I'd come over after my counsler appt.

Anyways, I went over and I was sure to maintain my upbeat attitude throughout the night. We just hanged out around her family at first then went into another room so she can tell me some things that happpened last week while at work and a fight that 2 of her friends had. We talked for a bit, but it was mainly her and I tried to really show I was into it. After that she said she felt like shopping so I took her to the mall and we were shopping for a couple hours. Everything was fine in my book until the end while we were about to leave the mall. I was waiting to return something and she mentioned the fact of telling her family about us because as you might know already, she hasnt told them yet because they love me so much. The only thing Im questioning now is whether she mentioned this after the fact I brought up how I went to my counsler that night again. She asked what we talked about and I said in a joking way, "you", but I hesitated for any other details.

Im starting to think she might have said something after I mentioned counsler to her. Maybe I need to not speak of this because its looked on as Relationship talk to her? I feel like she mentions it more often still. Like whenever we have a good time out she has to say something as if she needs to remind herself. I dont know.

Could this just be the way she is looking through her defensive eyes? I think she thinks I still dont want to do everything on my own yet, and that Id only do certain things if she was there. Im so confused still. I am happy though because she mentioned about maybe wanting to go to a concert with me. I have been stopping at church and praying more so maybe I need to keep it up and pray for a Christmas miracle.

Please give me any possible advice everyone. Its very much appreciated! I love her with all of my heart and I have to win her back. Thanks! Happy Holidays.


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Ok, well there isnt anything new to report as of yesterday because I have not had any contact with her. I am debating whether or not to call her tonight because I know she will be working her ass off at her house cleaning for tommorow because all her family will be over. If I call her I can get her a break from her duties, and it will maybe give me a chance to show I care about her.

Its just that she is talking to a lot of her new friends now and I feel like Im not part of that and I want to be. She confuses me so much. She is not the typical woman in my opinion. She is very stubborn and I feel like if I ignore her, she will be like fine, whatever. I can play this game too. But if I am too open with her, she might feel like Im suffocating her.

I dont understand this though!! How can a woman who was upset because we couldnt see eachother every single minute of the day go to feeling Im suffocating her?! Part of me feels like talking to her again because I feel like we never really discussed things that are going on now.

We talked about how this started, and about things we were doing wrong during the break but never really tried to work up a solution to this. Im so confused and upset. I miss her. I miss just hanging out with her and doing nothing. We did everything together and it was always assumed we would see eachother practically every night. She showed me and still does, a side of her I know she does not show to even her closest friends. We discussed baby names for when we are married and where we would live and just fantasized about it in every way.

Where did she go to? The 2 people who are mostly involved in this situation, my counsler and my good friend Garret who also knows January through his GF, they both seem to think she is going through some issues she needs to work out in her life and that is why she is acting differently and even rebelling and that I need to be supportive for her and be her friend during this time but its so hard because I feel like anything I do to be friendly, she looks at it as an advance.

I dont know anymore. I know I only started DB'ing in early November so maybe I need more patience and faith? One thing I may need to do is show her I have more of a social life.

For instance I asked her to see the new lord of the rings movie with me but she is busy latley and also didnt want to see it when it first opened to avoid the crowds. I mentioned it to her last night and she told me to go see it and not to wait for her. I guess that is a case of me making myself too available for her and not moving on.

Also, we discussed new years eve. I asked if she would be home and she said yes. I said part of me wants to go out sometime but another part wants to stay home. She told me I should go with her sisters because they are going into NYC and I said I dont think I will, and she then replied, I bet if I was going you would go.

Apparently I am still showing neediness towards her in the little contact we do have but I dont know how. Or maybe she just doesnt believe my actions are true yet. My counsler notices that when I back off or especailly the 2 times I went to visit a friend out of state my GF made more solid attempts of reaching out for me.

Part of me feels like she wants to keep me around deep down so when she is sorted things out, I will be there for her, but another part of me has no idea what she wants. Im so lost. I am lost without her. I love her so much and not being close to her is killing me. Sorry to sound so down. I guess the holidays got me in a rut and Im scared for valentines day and out anniversary in February.

Maybe Ill stop by the church tonight. It cant hurt to say another prayer I guess right?


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I had to get a last minute gift for my GF to get my family last night so i dropeed it off to her and she seemed happily surprised to see me. We talked for a little and she wanted to show me all the decorating she has done and she was talking to me for about 10-15 minutes as I was on my way out the door. Seemed very upbeat and pleasant. Then I got this email this morning from her. how should I read this? At first it seemed happy because she said she thought of us, but then I was thinking I guess its just because we are both scorpios, and I also saw how she said we are both free spirits and cant be tied down. Does this mean she doesnt want to have a serious rlationship any more, or maybe this is just a phase for now? Im so confused because she always was obsessed with getting married and so forth. Any ideas? her email is listed below. Thanks!


It's 2am and I surfing the net cuz I don't want to clean my room.
hahahaha Anyways, I was checking out the horoscope and I thought this sounds
pretty darn funny-ish. Then it made me start thinking about us...since
we're both scorpios. I think we both have "lingering problems with
certain family" and how "nohting is simple where your family is
concerned." As you always told me, you should really talk to your family how
they sufficate you...and how nothing gets better if you don't talk to
them. We're both free spirited people and cannot be tied down and tame.
You like that, don't you...hahahaha...I should write out horoscopes for
a living. Anyways, see ya tonite!


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Marc,

I'm sorry I didn't take the time to go all the way back and read all of your thread...I did however skim over it and saw a few things I would like to comment on.

Being from an overbaring family...I can understand where your Girl Friend is coming from. Family members just want to make everything ok for the people they love. They look at the situation and see the simple resolution and push for that. I the case of you GF - it would be better for them as a family to have her still be with you - because as you say - they love you. But, to get to that point, Family members do not understand the dynamics involved. To them, you just do it...but often expressing that...can do more harm than good.

Michele herself warns that family members often make this worse rather than better. I would stop going to them completely...I would only answer direct questions and then only what is needed....don't volunteer anything.

Be supportive of your GF's attempt at keeping her family out of things. The more they push you at her...the more she will run away.

She sounds like it's not you she is trying to be independent from but the family. If you are acting like a tight member of that unit...you might be sacraficed in order for her to meet her goal. Be prepared that she may not be able to express any of this to you. It took me a long time to understand that that was what I was doing.

My suggestion, the next time you get a call to come over and hang out with family. Why not just say to GF - "hey, I really like your family and all, but I think we need some time away from them, don't you? How about I take you to dinner instead".

As for the e-mail you shared in your last post. I think she is trying in her own way to ask you for help. Her family appears to be draining on her...see what you can do...but be careful...there is a balance here...even if they are draining her and she wants to be free...she still loves them and you have to be careful what you say about them.

OK? Best of luck, hope you had a good holiday.

State Flower


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Wow, thanks for the great reply. I appreciate your help and advice. I agree with much of what you said. I have tried to seperate myself as much as I can from her family but its hard to sometimes, like the other day she asked me out because her family was asking for me, but at first I declined because I dont want to come out just for them, but she insisted because her family would question it so I didnt want to make matters worse and I went over, but we wound up spending the whole time together mostly.

As for her getting pushed farther away the more they question her, I agree, which is why part of me wishes she would tell them about our situation in hopes they will learn to back off.

I am going to try to be supportive and listen to her problems with the family and keep trying to seperate myself from them as well, because I agree in that she see's me with them. I know in the past I knew more about her family events than she did because of talking to her sisters. I stopped communicating like that with them a while ago though.

I guess im still just trying to learn to be patient. I get scared at times that what if Im kidding myself? what if Im just making up excuses as to why things have taken 7 months on this break, but I know there were things I did that screwed me up, and my counsler and my best friend (the ones who really know everything about the situation) also agree about the family issue being the main problem and in the beggining I wasnt as supportive as I needed to be.

Its just hard to draw the line as to being friendly and supportive by making contact with her, because I dont want to come off as being needy or pushy. I just want to see how she is at times and see if we can talk about things( I dont mean our relationship).

Thanks State Flower! I appreciate your tips and I hope I hear from you again. Happy holidays!


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Marc: Stateflower gave you some great advice! In addition to that - when the two of you are back togetehr and down the road marry - would you consider moving away from the "hometown"? It might be something to think about. I see her family meddling in your relationship/marriage down the road to the point of suffocation and the two of you will feel like you can't escape.

I hope Christmas went okay for the two of you. I will say though - you need to have so much more patience. Randy on the Piecing thread took 3 years to get his wife back. He did it one babystep at a time. If you really love her than you will help her, support her, and be there for her when she comes back into your arms!

I envy you!

Missy

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Missy, thanks so much! Im so happy im getting more feedback. It is such an amazing help, even though I dont know you all persoanlly. I know she is going through a lot of things now, and we saw eachother like 4 times last week due to the holidays. One night I had to drop off a gift and she was very happy to see me it seemed and even started talking to me as I was half way out the door.

I saw her again at her Mom's 50th B-day party on Friday and it went well. I made her laugh and was always upbeat. They made all of the guests fill out a memorable time with her mom and my GF read mine and thought it was so very, very sweet and she read it aloud. I was a little embarrassed but I hope she took it to heart.

I hope she is noticing how much more upbeat I am with her. I have made drastic improvements and I just wish her family would get off her back about me not being around as much. I know its hard for them to not question since they arent familiar with our seperation but its draining on her.

I bought her a just because card today to send to her at work this week because she is going to be very busy since she had off all last week. It just basically says Im always there for her when she needs me. I didnt wanna get too mushy or too plain.

As for moving away from her family, Im more than fine with doing that. Its mostly her oldest sister that likes to meddle and I would love to move far far away from her! ha ha.

Anyways, Happy new years to all! Thanks for the support!


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Ok, I forgot to mention some things. Well, after her Mom's B-day party we went back to her place. She went upstairs to use the restroom and I sat down in the family room and watched TV with her sisters expecting her to come back down.

After a while, she didnt so I went up to her room and saw her playing video games. I made a comment and said I was waiting for her downstairs and was surprised she didnt tell me she was staying up in her room. I didnt say it rude, I was pleasant and joking and she just said it was a spur of the moment thing.

Anyways, as I said in my previous post, I was upbeat that night and played gamed with her and joked around more and her sister and her BF played with us also. We all played for a while then quit. She started to pluck her eye brows and do girly stuff as I got ready to go. I said goodnight and that was it.

Im a little upset because she didnt even really look at me as I left. She was just looking into her mirror and went on with her own business. I was hoping she would walk me to the door too. I know in our relationship she hardly ever walked me to the door but she would at least give me a proper farewell. Also, since our break, it seems as though she usually walks me to the door. And 2 times last week she was watching me as I walked to my car and I looked back at her too.

Oh, and another thing! I asked her a while ago to see the new Lord of the Rings movie with me and she said she wanted to wait until the theatres wont be so crowded and she had things to do with her mom visiting last week which I understood. Anyways, at dinner Friday it came up and she said she would probably see it with a bunch of friends in the City. Of course I said something because I asked her first but I didnt get angry. She said she was probably gonna see it several times. with me and her friends, and she brought up the fact I saw the "Last Samurai" without her a few weeks ago.

I was surprised that it seemed to bothered her enough to mention it because she seems fine with doing things without me. I said well you saw the last Matrix movie without me and she said she thought I already saw it and I said I went to see it after I found out she already watched it.

I know it sounds stupid, but I feel like there is some major misscommunication going on which is why I brought it up. I dont want to get into a Relationship talk, but I feel like we are not being open with eachother and Im afraid it might do more harm than good. Im so confused.


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Well, I told my counsler last night all about my X-mas week events and she mentioned the idea of talking to my GF about things. Not necessarily the realtionship, but to ask her if I am giving her the space she wants or if she would be happier if I did something else.

Im just so torn. I dont feel like Im getting the progress I am looking for. I just dont see the baby steps progressing like I thought they would. Well, I might make changes to this and I dont even know if I will tell her this yet, but I wrote up a letter to read to her if I decide to talk to her about things. Suggestions are greatly appreciated and Im sorry I ramble on so much.


I just want to say Im sorry for the way I have acted in the past. I know all you wanted was some time and space to get a social life of your own so you wouldn’t feel like you depened on me and I was being selfish by not accepting that, and by questioning your actions. In the beginning I know It was wrong of me to keep asking you for an update on when we would be back together when you told me we would, you just didn’t know when. I was blind to see that my actions were prolonging it all. Instead of truly thinking why things were the way they were by putting myself in your situation and respecting your wishes, I acted out of fear and my own insecurities which caused me to act on my emotions most of the time. I am telling you this because I feel my actions built up a mis-trust over time and it kills me knowing the mistakes I have made and the damage it has done to the bond we shared. I know a several months ago I came to you and told you I respected your wishes and would do my best to do what is needed of me and be there when you needed me but it wasn’t sincere enough on my end. Yes, I deep down wanted to mean every word I said to you and in a way I did but I did not have the tools or the knowledge as I do now to deal with my emotions.I just want you to know how terrible I feel for going back to the old ways after making such a strong statement, and I hope you noticed that within the past 2 months I have stopped my negative behaviors which I did in the past. I felt as though I needed to show you I can change my behavior before I told you this again since I faltered very shortly after the last time I said these words. We cant undo what has happened, we can only work better together in the future regardless of where we stand. After having said this, I just want to know how you feel about the way I have been recently? Am I giving you the space you are looking for, would you like more space from me, or do you wish we could be more open to communication or spending time together as friends? I want you to be happy and will do what it takes because I want to be your best friend again, and that is what best friends do for eachother.


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Sorry for my many long posts. I like to make short stories long. Its something my GF always joked about with me. =) Anyways, I just called her to say Hi and wish her a happy New Year befor she got busy today.

First I asked her about work cause she was out last week and I knew she had dealines today. I let her tell me all about her work problems and we also broke into some other topics.

I hear her typing in the background and she told me people are saying hi to her on AOL and it bothered me that she was stopping to talk to her friends over me but I kept it inside. I dont want to be the jealous controlling type anymore.

Well, we spoke briefly about a ski trip that is coming up our friends were planning for January 10th and she asked if I was going and I said yes. She said she couldnt afford it. I offered to pay only because she paid for me to ski once last year. She said thanks but she and her friend is planning another ski trip for February 7th and said I can pay for her then. Im happy she is asking me to come with her and her friend. Im very happy! Also hopefully her sisters will not come.

We talked about a few more things and then I wished her a happy new year and she said, that she would talk to me later cause she said she knows I usually call her right after midnight and she also said she is leaving work early and hinted she might call me, but I wont expect that.

In all, it was very pleasant and I didnt ask her out for this weekend yet. I didnt want to jinx my good luck. Ill see if I might ask her tonight. Tough choices!

Well, hope to hear from you guys about this!


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Well I was a little scared because it seemed that there was such a drought since she used to contact me more often and it slowed up a lot. Anyways, Ill try to make this short.

I called her last night after the ball dropped and wished her a happy new year and we had a good 15 minute conversation.

Today, she called me earlier to see if I wanted to meet for lunch but I missed her call and she called back later. We then talked for 50 minutes!! Lots of joking and laughing and regular talk. This hasnt happened in the past 7 months!!! Im so happy. =) Anyways, she hinted for doing something but she was tired. I told her to let me know if she wants to go out later and that the ball is in her court.

She is taking a 1 hour nap and I have to call her to wake her up and I hope we can see eachother but I will be grateful for what I had today. Wish me luck everyone!


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Ok, well she coudlt get up so I had to call her again later. Unfortunatley she was a little grouchy the next time because she was still tired but didnt want to sleep anymore. We talked for a bit until I was sure she was awake then I got off the phone. I was a little down that this conversation was probably going to be our last for the day. But to my surprise, she called me again later to ask me to go out with her to Dunkin Donuts. We hanged out for almost 2 hours and went to Barnes and Nobles too.

We talked a lot, nothing serious but I was joking with her and just having good conversation. She made a comment about us being on a break during a conversation regarding telling her family about us. In a way Im glad she is still using the word break because its very temporary. Well, Im happy I saw her, even though I wish we hanged out longer but she was tired so I left after I dropped her off.

Im hoping to see her this weekend. If I dont hear from her, Ill probably ask her out. I just want to think of something original to do. Wanna show her a good time. Well, wish me luck everyone!


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Well, on Friday she called me on my way home from work just to ask me a few things and we talked about some other stuff. Made her laugh a little.

She called me once again around 12:30 at night for no real reason but to talk and she mentioned the idea of going to IKEA today. We kept it light again and I didnt talk to long because I was eating and told her I wanted to go before my food got too cold and she was gonna make something to eat too. (we both get hungry late)

Well, I called her to see if she wanted to still go and she didnt, but she still wants to go out to the mall and Ill see what else we do. Im gonna try to pull for a movie and dinner so wish me luck please!!

I know her sisters arent around for the past few days and she might be bored, but I dont care. Im taking advantage of the sitution and the other day when she called and we talked for an hour, she could have called another friend but she wanted me. And she has been sounding so much like her old self on the phone latley. Well, Im not giving up. I will keep the fight strong!


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Well, we just went to the mall and had something to eat there, then we went back to her place and played some video games.

Afterwards, she was telling me how her father was on bugging her if she was still going out today with me. I basically said Im sorry for that and I hope she can not take it out on me. Well we kind of got into a mini Relationship conversation, but it wasnt bad. It was basically me telling her how much Ive learned and how I appreciate her situation and Im always there to support her and how I was sorry for being pushy in the past.

She even said she probably would have been the same way I was and she said that she is planning on telling her family we are on a break this month. And she made a comment that this could be something we both needed. It seemed like she meant it as this break could be good for US . I hope thats what she meant. Well, we talked for a while. I even asked her if I have been doing a good job of not pressuring her and maintaining a good distance and she said I was. At the end she said it was a good talk.

I feel like I needed to show her this supportive side of me again. Even though she is still determined to move out of her parents house and get a new job, I think I can make this work if I keep showing her who I can be for her. The only thing that bothered me was her saying when she moves out, she doesnt plan on coming to new jersey often to visit her family and such. Well, she doesnt even have her own place yet so I wont worry about that. Ill just keep my goal in sight and with whatever time I have before she makes the move, I hope to influence her as much as I can. Please pray for me everyone!


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Hey everyone. I called her last night around 1:30 because I was upset and thought of some more things I wish I said to her when we talked and I just really missed her. I didnt get emotional and question her coming back to me or working on it, it was basically more of the same as before.

One thing that is positive is she said again how she would have reacted just like me and I said I was sorry it jjust took so long for me to realize what I was doing and she said she is not going to be like, "well its too late". Im hoping that she means it and she doesnt feel like its too late.

The only other thing I wish I said, and Im not trying to get dirty here, but I brought up the conversation of trimming down below and she asked if I shaved it all off and said no, I wouldnt do that unless requested. and she asked if I would do that if my girlfriend (imaginary) asked me to. I told her I cant answer that because I cant think of showing anyone my business. But I wish I said to her, I cant think of it because Im planning on looking for a girlfriend.

I just want her to know that I want to use this time to grow but not look for another relationship. I dont know why Im so upset right now. She called me like crazy the past few days and I guess its because I am having a little touch of what I used to have and Im dying for more. I just hope I didnt scare her off by our conversation last night. She seemed fine with it and not mad at me. I dont know.

I just wish I had more people to hang out with to get my mind off of things. I feel so alone at times and these times are the worst. I know I can go out by myself but it will still just make me think about everything. I feel like breaking down right now. The worst part about this is not having anyone to go to.

I always could go to her for my problems, now I feel so alone. I know I need patience. I just feel like screaming at the top of my lungs right now! Im so angry and upset that this is happening to me! Well, I doubt anyone will read this anyways. It seems like I just type here for a journal these days because I get no feedback. It would be nice to hear from someone.


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There are a lot of positives going on in your sitch.
She's definitely not made up her mind about anything. It seems you do you have power to influence her decision.

I know the feeling of patience. I know I need it greatly for my sitch, but it is very hard when your living
minute by minute. I laugh when people tell me to "just take it one day at a time." I can't even get to that stage at the moment.

Just think of all the reasons why she left, and all the problems that you two have in your relationship, and start working on fixing the parts that are in you. Don't tell her about them, just do it. She'll notice.


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Wow, your a lifesaver. Its funny how such few words can give me hope. I just start getting emotional and feeling like things are hopeless when even I see those positive signs but I cant stay as solution oriented as I need to be. Thanks so much . It means a lot to have someone supporting me.


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Oh, a few more things. Well, when we were out at the mall on Saturday, she was mostly shopping for new underware and asking my opinion on looks and sizes and she was holding them up to her and everything. Of course it drove me nuts because I would give anything to be intimate with her again. But This is probably a good sign right? She asked me if its wierd that shes asking my advice and I said I didnt mind at all. Im glad she feels like she can do this with me still, and she did make a comment how no o ne is going to see them anyways. =) If i cant, I sure as hell dont want anyone else too!

Also, when we were talking last night, she made a comment how when she is out with her friends and Im not around, she feels free, like she doesnt have to worry about me. I was understanding and told her its ok because I know when we are together, I put all my focus on you, and sometimes when u are with friends you just want to not worry about that and be more free. It bothered me a lttle, but I was supportive and I just hope I can become a really good friend to her and she can open up to me once more.

The only thing that also pisses me off, is two of her old friends from high school who she has probably seen maybe 4 times in the past 5 years TOPS, told her they didnt see her with me anyways. What the hell do they know? They arent even close to her anymore. But she told me she deffended me to them because they said I was quiet and not as loud, but I was more shy when I knew them which was many years ago. And she told them that too. Anyways, im just ranting now so Ill go.


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Hey everyone,
Well, I was luckily able to meet up with some friends last night to get my mind off of things, but one thing I forgot to mention was when we were together Saturday night she got a phone call but she ignored it. And not to much later she decided she wanted to go to bed so I left but I was thinking she wanted me to leave so she could use the phone.

Anyways, When i called her later that night, I asked her if she felt she had to wait for me to leave to use the phone and she said yes, because it was her friend Nadeem that called, but she didnt know who it was until after I left. Anyways, she called him and he invited her to a Knicks vs. Nets basketball game in the city because he had an extra ticket.

I know he is just her friend but I found out while on the phone with her that he broke up with his girlfriend and I know he told my GF he had feelings for her over aa year ago, but eventually took it back, and I think thats because he was shot down by my GF. I still dont trust him and I hate it when she see's him.

When we talked on Saturday, she told me how she just is enjoying hanging out with friends without responsibilties right now. She said that when I would be with her and her friends in the past she felt like she needed to focus on me and ignore her friends, which I understand because I felt the same but it didnt bother me as much. I guess this fact proves that she isnt out looking for some new man in her life now.

DAMNIT!! I feel like screaming! Im so confused and frustrated! WHY?! I am dying to call her and ask her about the basketball game on Sunday but I also partially feel like I should wait to hear from her, but Im also scared that I may have scared her off with our talk we had this weekend.

I know we steered clear of discussing working on our relationship but Im still afraid I said something wrong. I wish I could read her damn mind.

Oh, one more thing. Does anyone remember the movie situation? How she seemed upset when I saw The Last Samurai without her, and she said she wasnt mad I saw it without her because she knows I need to do things without her, but she was thinking more of WHO did I see it with. I guess she thought I was going with some girl.

I dont know why she would think that because I dont even have any girl friends. At least she is still jealous. Sorry to ramble. Its a habbit of mine. I dont even let my therapist say much when we have our sessions.

I was just wondering if there is anyone out there that would'nt mind trading emails with me? I just feel that sometimes I cant always get the support Im looking for here for a few days or a week and I was thinking if someone doesnt mind, maybe i can email them asking for opinions and so on. If you are interested, my email is markyd23@yahoo.com . Thanks!


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Hey everyone, incase anyone here wants to know what has happened since the beginning, here is a link. How this all started


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Jealousy = still caring

Every woman's different, whether you're mysterious about who you went with or flat out tell her "You're the only one I want." there are too possible reactions. One, they pull closer to you, because they think you're out with someone else and they might lose you, or they use that to justify their leaving.

If you take the "You're the only one I want." approach, they can pull closer because it makes them realize how much you care about them, or they can pull away because they know you're always a good backup then.


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You know, I talked to my therapist last night and she said the same thing so Im basically going to stay clear of telling her that outright. She also told me it wouldnt hurt for me to contact her once in a while instead of always waiting for her, but not to make a habbit out of it. After all, she called me a lot to say the least this past weekend and asked me out twice. So, it seems like she opened up a door about calling me for no reason like we used to and just talk.

I didnt talk to her since Saturday night and she went to that basketball game with her friend on Sunday so I figured Id call her and say hello tonight and hopefully break into a good length conversation.


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#129675 01/06/04 03:13 PM
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Im just freaking out over something. First of all, my GF is Chinese and Chinese New YEar is at the end of January. I am always invited to her aunts house for the celebration, but when we spoke the other night at her house and she was telling me how she wants to tell her family about us by that date, she also mentioned that she doesnt want me to come, even if her family invites me. I guess this is just part of her wanting to be recognized as an individual, but Im still hurt and rejected from that.

Do you think the other things she said are important enough to give me hope and not worry about this situation? Please help me defeat this negative self talk inside of me.


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Well, after advice from my counsler, I decided to give her a call so she doesnt feel that she is the only one making contact to me.

Well, I called her around 10:45 and she was on the bus home from the city. she said she would call me when she got home. I was bothered at first thinking who was she with but I was able to look over my recent positive steps and I prayed a little and I was able to block my negative thoughts.

Anyways, when we talked she told me about her night without me asking. To my relief she was just out to dinner with a girl friend of hers. We talked a bit and I asked her about Sunday going to the basketball game with her friend, who happens to be a guy but nothing is going on, but i still get jealous. anyways, I didnt let her see any jealousy and she actually told me she liked it but was tired and didnt have as much fun as when I took her to a football game . =)

Also, I told her I saw part of the basketball game cause I was at a bar, but I didnt tell her who and she wound up asking me who I was with later. ha ha, she is doing what I used to do. Always asking me who Im with when I go out. =) I gotta go out more!

Well, we talked about other things for a little while and joked around but she was really tired and asked me if I can call her at work tommorow so I guess I will, right? She asked me to, but at the same time I dont want to come on too strong. Well, it was another good moment. I've learned tp become Mr. Upbeat around her and Im gonna keep going! Wish me luck, and you guys think I should call her tommorow or wait?


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If she asked you to call her tommorow, do it.
But maybe with that call, you end the conversation first this time.

If you had asked her if you could call her tommorow, my answer would have been different.


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I did call her at work right before lunch, but got her machine. Left a message and she called right back. Spoke for 5 minutes and she got another call and asked if she can call me back. I told her I was on my way out to lunch and to call later so I'll see if she calls but the short conversation we did have was good so Ill try to be happy with that.

I know she can get busy at work so I will try not to think about it if she doesnt call me. Im just playing the tape in my head of what she told me this weekend whenever I have doubts about it taking time and its not too late.


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#129679 01/08/04 03:09 PM
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Well, she didnt call me back yesterday, but I know when she gets busy, she gets really busy. On a good note, she emailed me today to ask my opinion on a new cell phone. Its something still so Ill be happy with it. =)


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#129680 01/08/04 07:39 PM
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Oh, I also figured Id tell you all about a positive step Im doing for myself as well. Some mutual friends planned a ski/boarding trip for Saturday and I am going even though my GF and her sisters are backing out.

I also started to work out a little. I lost 25 lbs since I was first hit with the bomb when she began to lose hope about us. Now that I am much more trim and she has noticed, Im going to go the extra mile and become a stud! ha ha. I want her to start sweating after me!

Going to school again, losing wieght and excercising, hanging out more with friends, being funny and upbeat again.... how can she resist?! Thats the way Im going to look at it. =)

Oh, and she emailed me a few more times about cell phones and they were longer and longer so thats a good thing. She still looks to me for advice.


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#129681 01/09/04 11:47 PM
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Hi Mark - sorry it has taken me a few days to get over to your thread. It seems that your GF, like my W, is firmly planted on the Fence. I reading your thread I have notice some positives and it seems you are getting lots of good advice.

I also agree that in the innitiating contact you should let her do most of it. I have generally innitiated contact once for every 4 or 5 times C calls or IM's me. I am always upbeat and happy when she calls or IMs as I want her to enjoy the contact and look forward to the next one. keep on doing what is working and don't expect things to turn around over night. Remember one step at a time.


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#129682 01/12/04 01:37 PM
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Ok, well its monday so here is an update for the weekend.

Friday: I went home after work and signed onto AOL. My GF im me and we were talking for a while just about regular stuff and she was getting ready to go out with friends in the city. Anyways, Im not happy about her guy friends going. I just dont trust them from stories Ive heard in the past, but I cant let that get to me. She may be friends with them but thats it. Anyways, I went out with some friends and told her I was going out but didnt say where and with who and I signed off cause she was away from her PC and came back later after i left to see my message.

Saturday: Went snowboarding with friends. She couldnt make it so I went anyways to have a good time which I did.

Sunday: I was weak and called her and mentioned doing something with her. I went to drop off something and stayed for a little and helped her and her family take down x-mas decorations but then I left after an hour because she said she was tired and was just gonna do laundry and stuff. I was a little upset over this though. She is always tired. Even when she hangs out with her friends, she tells me how tired she is but she still goes out anyways.

Monday: she emailed me a couple times to show me cell phones she likes. At least it shows some hought of me on her end.

New Goals:
After getting great results from her last weekend, and then nothing much this weekend, Ive decided Im going to continue to hang out with my friends more and try to be less available to her and let her ask me to make plans. I will call her once in a while still, but I think I need to stop trying to make plans with her because I get upset when it doesnt happen the way I want.

Still keeping the faith!!


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#129683 01/14/04 05:10 PM
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Something interesting I found out.

I was talking to GF's sister last night on AOL and I was telling her about my snowboarding trip this weekend and she said she knew all about it because my GF told her.

Nothing major but I know she is talking about me and she made it sound like im really really good. Maybe she is proud of me but just afraid to let her wall down all the way with me.

I have started going back to school also for my bachelors degree which she is very proud of and Im taking a College Algebra course which is my worst subject and she loves math. Anyways, when she heard I passed the algebra part of the school entrance test she was rally proud of me. Anyways, I have my first test in this class tommorow and Ive been studying hard and Im hoping to get an A to impress her. =)


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#129684 01/20/04 01:06 PM
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Well, I got a 98 on my test but she doesnt know yet. I havent really talked to her last week. I was keeping dark a bit because Chinese New Year was this weekend and she told me she was planning on telling her family about us by then, especailly since her Mom was coming home. I did send her a Chinese New YEar card on the 15th to her job and think shell get it today. Since we didnt talk, i wanted to show her I am still there and not ignoring her, just giving her some time.

I also hope that giving her time once in a while can make her reflect. Im gonna help her again today and send her some new job listings to help her search. Just to show her Im here and willing to help her out when she needs me.

Monday I had aol on but didnt realize it and she IM me when i was away. She just said "hello..." but signed off 10 minutes before I went on. Well, Im a little down after her not contacting me, but I am going to remember to be strong and take what she said about this taking time and it not being too late seriously and not waste any second chances she is giving me. Im a little down from hardly seeing her the past 2 weeks but I must have faith. Wish me luck everyone!


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#129685 01/20/04 05:51 PM
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Well im back with another update. She responded to my emails to her with job information. She started off by saying "hello stranger". She says that becasue other than brief emails last monday we have not talked all week since I saw her for an hour on Sunday a week ago.

BAsically she asked me how my 3 day weekend was and some money problems she is having. It was a longer email than what she was sending in the past so thats good I guess. She also emailed me her cover letter and wanted my opinion on it. Still shows she cares what I think so thats good too.

Her reffering to me as "stranger" makes me wonder if she wants me to contact her more, but why cant she make more of an effort, especially since Im trying to give her the space she wanted yet still be her friend. I wish she could be clearer and tell me what she wants of me. It has been rough not hearing her voice or seeing her all week. felt like an eternity.

Any suggestions on if i should contact her more or not? She is the type of person who doesnt always make plans but gets invited to do things. And if we do go out, I have to think of something fun for a change. Going to the mall or whatever cant get very exciting.


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#129686 01/21/04 03:46 AM
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well we emailed eachother again later and around 4:30 she called me and we talked until 5pm when i left work. It was an ok talk but she was sidetracked by talking on AOL to her sisters about a ski trip they are all planning in february. She was grumpy and frustrated over things with her sister and I tried to make it better but it was difficult. We talked about a few things and I mentioned several times that I would let her go because she is busy and she kept saying its ok, and eventually she was joking with me and saying things like, "dont you wanna talk to me?" So we spoke more and I told her about my test in college algebra and her tone changed into a much happier one.

Well, back to this ski trip, she is inviting me, but she made a comment about not knowing who i will hang out with because im a decent snowboarder but her and her friends will be mainly on the bunny hill probably. But later she mentioned about who ill talk to at the lodge cause a bunch of people are going there with us and sharing a cabin. Anyways, i was a little annoyed and though why doesnt she want to hang out with me at all but invite me, and i said well id hang out with you and your sisters and everyone. Basically she seemed defensive and to be putting up a tough side until i offered to hang up then she didnt want to let me go. But most importantly, she said that she was afraid her sisters would be on her back about me and her getting together that weekend and I said maybe i shouldnt go cause it would be easier and she said "NOOOOO!" very loud and upset sounding.

Maybe not showing her much attention this past week touched a small nerve. Well im going to focus on the fact she was upset when i offered not to come and how she wanted to pro-long the phone call. What do you guys think?


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I think I need to do some advertising and get some people into my forum or something! =)


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#129688 01/21/04 06:41 PM
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Well, I have just been thinking latley how I did not make contact with GF last week at all nor did she make an attempt. Of course I missed her and wanted to call many times but I did several things to keep busy. Anyways, as soon as I do talk to her I get all messed up inside and butterflies in my stomach again. This sucks because its like it was when I first fell for her, but after being together for over 7 years, I feel so far away from her.

Sorry, just venting. I guess I have to work on expecting too much. I know it has now been 8 months but I only began changing and DB'ing since early november. But 2 weekes ago she did tell me she wont say its too late and this is going to take time so Im gonna stop being a wimp and toughen up again! I love her and will stay focused and be a man!

Wow, that sure sounds good now but with valentines quickly and 1 week after should have been our 8 yr anniversarry. Not sure how I will cope in february, but I guess a lot can happen until then, and who knows, maybe the thought of all that is on her mind as well.


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#129689 01/23/04 05:56 PM
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Well, as I said last week I didnt call or make contact at all, except for sending a Chinese New Year card to her job and then she called me this tuesday. I mentioned Id talk to her later in the week and so far I have not. I am not sure if I should because she was going to tell her family about us by this weekend and I dont want to interfere with this process, and maybe if I dont make contact, she will continue wondering about me and maybe miss me and not want to tell them? I dont know. I know she has opened of communication before and my counsler and some friends told me they think its ok to call her once in a while to show I care, but maybe I should wait till after the weekend when her mom has left and everything is maybe settled down? I know she will be busy with the new year and family stuff this weekend. I would rather not call her from work because it is very public and dont feel I can be upbeat and funny on the phone here. I prefer private. What to do? Someone help me please?


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#129690 01/26/04 12:59 PM
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Well, I called her last night and we talked for about an hour. But, unfortunatley she was the one to end the conversation because she wanted to get ready for bed and get her stuff ready for work.

It was a good talk we had mostly but she did bring up the relationship in a way. Not directly discussing us but more like how she hasnt told her family yet and stuff and how she feels i have done so much during this time for the better and im doing it all without her.

Im so afraid that all my improvements, she will think I am better off without her, when this is my 180!!! Yes, these are things I should have always done, like going back to school, but Im trying to make her proud of me at the same time and fall for me. Maybe Im expecting things to go too quickly still. I dont know.

Plus she asked me about me going skiing with our friends this weekend andits really just a bunch of girls and she asked me if I liked any of the girls and if one of them liked me would i go out with them. overall I said no and I am not interested in meeting anyone right now for that type of relationship.

I told her the reason why I didnt really contact her in the past 2 weeks was to give her space and time to tell her family, which she didnt by the way, but before that she told me she thinks this is just going to take time and that its not too late.

It seems as though not contacting her backfired slightly from the tone of our conversation. I think I need to give her space, yes, but more physical space. I will start contacting her during the week myself one in a while to keep the lines open and to be there for her. I dont want her forgetting me or replacing what we had.

Like Michelle says, wait and monitor results. I backed off for 2 weeks and she seemed slightly more distant. AS opposed to new years weekend, we talked about every day for 4 days in a row and she asked me out 2 times that weekend too! I know she called me then but I dont care. I need to customize my actions to the response Im getting. Wish me luck and any advice is appreciated!


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#129691 01/26/04 11:30 PM
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Marc-

I saw your post on my thread about not much traffic. I think you had me confused with Patrick, but knew you were talking about me!

I am leaving to get my son, but will be on the BB tonight. I will read your entire thread and make some comments. Just wanted to let you know to look for me later.

Hope your day was good.


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#129692 01/27/04 12:16 PM
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Oh wow, you are dedicated! Thanks so much and Im sorry its so long but I like to be detailed. =)


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#129693 01/27/04 03:17 PM
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One more thing, after meeting with my counsler last night and told her about our conversation on Sunday, she thinks the phone call really wasnt that bad because we kept it upbeat and joked about manythings. But she also thinks she is testing me by asking me questions such as liking any of the girls and what I would do if they liked me. But I didnt say before i said I wouldnt do anything because I dont want to get their hopes up for me. I said it as if I was full of myself and just to make a joke.

At first I was upset over the talk because I was thinking she was pushing me to see other people, and she was questioning if I talked to my family yet and she was asking why and what have they been saying and just asking a lot.

After talking to a friend and my counsler, they both think she might just be testing me by asking all these questions to see if im still interested or moving on, because she might have thought I was getting over her the past 2 weeks since I didnt contact her much.

Well, New years weekend i mentioned how much she contacted me and how she asked me out twice. One thing I know was her sisters were away and not around to bug her and she seemed happier too which also backs up my idea of how much they are a big part of the problem. But I also returned the contact occasionally and she would respond, or email me and we were just talking much more then.

From december 31 - jan 14, we had some form of communication or contact for 11 days. Then I just stopped because I know she wanted to tell her family about us by chinese new year so i was giving her space to do it, even though she didnt after all.

I am a little doubtful now about keeping my counsler these days. She is nice and means well but her suggestions are always things like showing my affection to her or buying her things or asking her for her feelings about me and she always asks me how lon am i going to wait and i feel like im getting a vibe from her that she thinks i should move on and not wait for her, but at the same time she does think my GF is still confused and has shown me positive signs. This counsler is nice but I am doubting her knowledge. Its just that I have been seeing her for 2 months and i hate to start over again but i might have to.

Sorry, Im rambling, just feel like talking to someone about this.


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#129694 01/28/04 03:12 PM
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Well, just a few small notes. Nothing really new here but I am going to call GF tonight after work and try to have a good conversation. Just keeping our lines open to eachother and working on re-building what I may have lost by going too dark the past 2 weeks. I am also planning on calling her at work Friday and if all goes well, ask her for lunch on Sunday. There is no pressure there and lunch is only about an hour or so, so hopefully she will agree to this idea. After all, food is the quickest way to her heart someetimes! =) Wish me luck!

One other thing, I was watching a re-run of Friends last night and Monica was upset after breaking up with her boyfriend Richard. Anyways, her dad came over to comfort her and he told her how him and his wife broke up for a while before they got married. I know its just TV, but it just reminded me that it does happen. People can break up and come back together for the long haul. Well, it made me happy seeing that.


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#129695 01/29/04 05:06 PM
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Ok, this should be short for once! I called GF last night around 10:30. We spoke for almost 30 min. She was mostly venting about her Father getting on her nerves about several things. I made an extremley concious effort to show complete Empathy and I think it went well. It didnt have to be a more pleasant talk because it showed she can still talk to me about her problems. I am going to try to reach out to her again sometime tommorow but not sure if I will ask her to lunch or coffee yet.

I have an idea! Maybe I can call her and just say hi, and then text message her on Saturday? This was I spread out the contact and she wont feel like she is in the spotlight to answer and I dont have to worry about cathing her at a bad time. What do you think?


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#129696 01/29/04 09:47 PM
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Try it and observe your results. If you see her pulling away at all, back off.


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#129697 02/01/04 05:29 AM
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MarcD-

Sorry it took me so long to get back with you. Were you starting to think that I had to go pick up my son in Brazil? I had really good intentions of posting to you that night. But a bad few days on my sitch, and son has the flu. So I just got around to it.

I think you are starting to observe things and learning what makes her tick. I don't say this in a bad way, only that you are seeing what she does and doesn't respond to. If you have found that backing off has sent her in the other direction than try something different. This is what Michelle says in the books too.

Validating her feelings about her father was great. My H always tried to fix it or correct my feelings. I think you scored lost of points by being a freind and listening.

She hasn't told her family yet. Take this as she is confused and doesn't really know what she wants. If she definitly wanted it to be over she wouldn't care who knew. This is a good sign in my book.

The changes in yourself will make you feel better. This will be apparant to her too. This is a very attractive thing. Don't just assume that the changes are only for her to see. I did this in the beginning and my goals were worthless. They have to be for you only with her out of the equation.

I think you are doing very well. I am probably not the best to give advice, but I can be a great cheerleader. But just to warn you the last back handspring I did was about 20 pounds ago, so don't look for any fancy tricks from me!

Keep posting and I will keep checking in I promise!


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#129698 02/01/04 02:25 PM
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STC, Thanks for coming by! I have been reading your situation so I understand why you have not been around. Thanks for coming back anyways! I will be checking your situation out soon and hopefully I can offer you some support as well.

Well, nothing too new here yet. I was invited to a Big Dinner banquet and party afterwards by her and her sisters group of friends. I did not RSVP for it though and figured I would let her go out and have fun without worrying about me. I want to spend time with her, but during our break she feels like she has to be concerned for me when Im around and she cant spend time with her friends, do I am trying to make it a private thing whenever we are together. No romantic pressure, just private. Well when I spoke to her during the week she asked me if I was going and I may be reading into it too much but her voice was optimistic when she asked me. But I told her I wasnt going. I hope she missed me.

I did however go out with my friend and his girlfriend went to that dinner too. We had a lot of fun hanging out and I was able to get my mind off a lot of things. We did talk a little about whats going on with me and he was very supportive, and optimistic about everything.

Yesterday I went snowboarding. I was supposed to go with my friends girlfriend and her friends but she got sick so I went alone. It would have been better if I had company but I still had fun. Im trying not to rely on others to be able to have fun.

Well, Im going to go to the gym now and after that, call my GF and ask her to Brunch. She doesnt usually get up until later on the weekends. And Im not going to extend my stay either. Ill take her out and drop her off. I hope things go according to plan because I really am dying to see her. its been about 3 weeks since I have seen her. wow, Thats scary when I think of it. ok, not going to let that bother me. I know many people have suffered worse and have still reconciled so I will keep the faith!

Sorry for another long post and Ill be back later to discuss my lunch with GF, if we do meet up.


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#129699 02/01/04 06:02 PM
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Ok, well I called her cell phone and left a message about getting lunch. I was afraid I might not hear from her or she may not get the message soon, but she did! She called me back said she would really like to go for lunch. Now I am waiting for her to get ready and then her call. Even though we spoke very breifly on the phone, it was light and we made several jokes and laughed. Im going to be a pool of energy around her today and just be happy! Wish me luck everyone! Ill post back results later. I just hope I can be strong and not expect too much or be let down afterwards from not getting her all at once. Slowly but steady! Im keeping the faith!


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#129700 02/01/04 10:01 PM
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Hey, just got back from lunch with GF. Went well! I did great at not expecting much and making the most of what time we had together. We talked the entire time and it wasnt like pulling teeth or anything. We talked abot everyday stuff, some joking, and she also was complaining about family stuff or friend stuff and I just made an effort to listen and validate her. I know I did a good job at this and I hope I can get even better with practice.

She is also volunteering more information about what she has been doing latley and with who, like her friends. She was also interested in things about me too and asking me questions. We made a lot of eye contact. After lunch, she had to clean up her house and do laundry and stuff but I wasnt going to stay unless asked. So I dropped her off and then ran a few errands of my own.

So, thats about it. I will call her again this week, once, maybe twice and maybe ask her out for lunch next weekend. I was thinking that a weekly lunch date can become a habit and give us time to spend together that new feelings can grow and old ones can re-surface. Not going to rush things though. Just an innocent lunch date once a week. What do you all think?


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#129701 02/04/04 01:16 PM
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Well, nothing new, just planning on calling her sometime today. I hate to call her at work because everyone can hear me. I think Ill just wait until tonight. Im not sure if she is home or at her sisters place tonight. Her father is on a business trip this week and she told me she will probably crash at her sisters most of the week in the city so no one has to worry about getting her to the bus.

I really miss her. I try not to think of it too much. Its so hard to act like only her friend right now. Well, she is confused about things and its not like she is seeing anyone either. Im going to stay strong and show my complete and unconditional love for her. Wish me luck with the call tonight!


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#129702 02/05/04 03:27 PM
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Ok, well I didnt call. I sent her an email towards the end of my work day. I figured a call is more personal and I dont want to overstep my boundries but still make contact since going almost completley dark for 2 weeks didnt do much good and even seemed to have a slightly negative effect. Anyways, I didnt hear back from her and it did bother me a little but I have been able to deal with it.

I sent her another email today, but it was just with a list of concert dates for an artist she likes and I didnt make it personal at all. She called me right after the email and it turns out she left me a voicemail at work earlier but I didnt see it.

I checked my machine after our phone call and she sounded happy and she was making jokes too. made me smile. =) Well she also said she wanted to call me last night but was busy arguing with her sister.

Anyways, we spoke for like 30 min today and once again, she was mostly complaining about work, her friends and her sister and her sisters friends. Mostly about the ski trip that is planned for Feb. 28th. Lots of complaints and other things and she is frustrated over it. Of course, made a concious effort to be empathetic. She seemed so down and I hate to hear like that. It was nice to hear her message she left this morning afterwards and how she sounded happy.

One thing I am trying to deal with now is Im driving up to the resort from new jersey but she might leave from NY after work with her man friend Nadeem. He is just her friend but I know he used to like her and has now recently broken up with his GF. I trust her, but not him. Well, hopefully I can have her in my car on the way home. One day at a time.

Well, The positive is she called me and spoke for 30 min. instead of just emailing me back! and she left me a message and called again! that shows interest! The lord is with me, I can feel it and with that, I can do anything!!


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#129703 02/06/04 08:55 PM
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Well, not much new here but I just thought of something I wanted to share. I sometimes let fears build up in my head, thinking she always had doubts and finally let them out, but I realized something today this time. In the first part of our break she was still very interested in me and always was sincere on how she always wanted to be with me no matter what, and it will work out. And she never had doubts until I started changing due to my fear of losing her. She even told me that she never had doubts until it seemed like I doubted her.

well, it took 2 months of DB'ing to get her to say its not too late and we just need time. Sounds like what she told me in the beginning so I have apparently made some progress in backtracking through all my mistakes. with a few more months Im sure I will get closer if I keep this up.

I just need patience and i cant wait to see how she is once she realizes how much I truly love her to have stuck by her side during all this. After all, she is not looking for a new man, I think she is looking for a way to let me in to her heart again. I just have to find the right path!


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#129704 02/07/04 11:30 PM
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Marc,

Patience my friend, time can heal most wounds.

It is good she talked with you. It was good that you were empithetic while she was complaining. Just remember to listen and not try to "fix things". There is a thread in newcomers about "a failure to communicate" and I posted toward the end all the things I have learned about commincation. It was what my W and I have always struggled with.

I think you need to give her space and time, just like I have done with my W. You have to let go of your fears and take a "leap of faith" to trust her judgements. If she sees you genuinely care and trust her she will be more comfortable to open up to you.

You also have to let your fear of her MF go. You have no control over it and if you give her any indication you don't trust her with him (even if its him you don't trust) she will back away. Women need to know thier men trust them. Trust me I have learned the hard way.

I have read through some of your post, but I think you need to set some goals for yourself. Some just for you, and some that she will notice. It may help to type them out here and get some input on them. You have to lovingly detach yourself from the sitch so the pain won't be so bad.

I have come to learn this just recently, and I find that I can be happy alone and when I am not with my W. Once you get to this place she will notice and will want to be a part of your life. Even if it doesn't work out, you have to be happy with yourself. You have to love yourself before you can love anyone else.

Start some goals and lets get to work.

Take care.


God Bless You, Reuben Cautiously hopeful and keeping the Momentum
#129705 02/08/04 04:32 PM
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Well, I went out to dinner last night in NYC with some mutual friends of ours and I had a lot of fun. It was for someones B-day and I met a lot of new people too. Anyways, When I was about to start driving home, I text messaged her and just said, "hey, how are you?" And she called me right away instead of texting me back. I pulled over to talk so I wasnt driving back to jersey on my phone and wound up talking for an hour!

Once again, she vented to me most of the time about problems with her sisters and this ski trip coming up. I am becoming a pro at being a good listener. She also told me how she talked to her mom on the phone on thursday or friday.(her mother relocated with her job to North Carolina right before we went on the break). Her mom asked her about me and her and whats going on because her father told her Im never at the house anymore.

My GF didnt really respond to her questions. But her mom said, well I understand that sometimes things just dont work out and sometimes people change. My GF was silent after her mom said these things. Then she said, is that what happened? And my GF just said, "yeah".

At first it hurt me but I was able to bring back my positive thinking. Part of me does feel like she needs to fully admit to herself and her family about whats happening before she can fully appreciate what she might miss. And, hopefully without pressure from her family about me, she can stop blaming me for that.

Well, Im just going to keep remembering how strong her love was for me for so many years, and I must have faith in her and the Lord that a love like that wont dissapear. Also, she told me last month its not too late and that its just going to take time. So, I am going to stay on track!

Oh, one more thing! While on the phone with her, when we talked about the ski trip, I asked if her man friend was bringing another friend still and she said she didnt know because she hasnt really talked to him. That made me happy. But I know she has nothing for him and I have been much better in accepting her friendship with him.

So, today I am bored and I asked her to lunch today last night but she said she wasnt sure because she might be busy at home and to call her back today. Ill call her but I wont push the subjuect. Besides, if I dont see her until the ski trip, it gives me time keep working out at the gym I joined and blow her away when she sees me!

I have gotten in so much better shape, even Im shocked. I cant wait until she can see me in the warmer weather when I wear t-shirts again! its hard to see the drastic changes in winter clothes.

Oh, I also just remembered, I tried to end the call a few times because she sounded tired last night and she kept me on! So, Everytime I try to end a call, she never lets me go. She always wants to stay on. Thats a great sign right?! Well, Ill end it like this for now. I know I write a lot but its good for me. helps me remember positive things. Ok, pray for me everyone!


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#129706 02/09/04 12:28 PM
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Well, Im feeling a little down today and felt upset most of yesterday. I think its because she turned down my offer to go out because she had a lot of cleaning to do around the house. I guess she also wanted to keep her dad company. I know these are valid reasons but I became upset still.

I went to school and did some reading and I thought that would keep my mind busy but it didnt. I got really down last night. I went to church before I went home and prayed, and cried too. I felt better when I left but the emptiness came back when I got home for a while and hit me this morning like a ton of bricks when I woke up.

I guess the reason I am upset is because I feel that after giving her space to tell her family in January about us, I feel like I lost some momentum. But, maybe not. Maybe when she told me on New Years weekend how its not too late and we just need time, she scared herself about letting herself be too open to me too soon so she backed off a bit?

I also think I should not have tried to ask her out so soon again. Maybe I should have attempted to make this an every other weekend thing. Well, at least I have not been visibly pushy to her, or upset.

Also, she told me how she was helping her sister bake stuff for her sisters and BF's anniversary. Her sister asked her about our anniversary coming up and saying isnt it going to be 8 years? And my GF was kind of just like, whatever and avoided it. It was hard hearing it but I didnt let it get me down too bad. I think I really have to try to make plans that day to keep me side tracked. V-day is going to be rough too but my friend from CT is going into NYC for the day with his girl and he asked me to meet them laster in the day for some drinks so at least I can get out and do something.

I have an appt. with my counsler tonight, so I hope I can get some good feedback from her.


Last edited by marc_d; 02/09/04 12:50 PM.

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#129707 02/09/04 12:43 PM
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oh, just to make it a little clearer. When her mom asked about us, this is what they both said.

Mother: so, I heard Marc isnt around the house anymore?

GF: ....

Mother: Well, I know sometimes things just dont work out and you two met really young and sometimes people change. Is this what happened?

GF: uhhhh.... yeah.

She seemed very hesitant in saying this is what happened as if she isnt 100% sure herself. And I know she still isnt telling her family outright about us, only dropping hints. I am going to try and look at this as a good thing that she isnt making it public and announcing its over.

What do you think?


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#129708 02/09/04 03:53 PM
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Marc,

you will have those times when you feel down, they get easier over time though. To help this you really need to stop analyzing everything so much. Does it really matter her exact conversion? Will it help you achieve your goal? Will it change the sitch or what you do?

This is part of the loving detachment you need to work on. You need to be able to take her not going out like a friend would, not a enstranged lover. Even if things were great there would be time you wouldn't be able to spend together.

She is talking with you and opening up to you about her concerns with her life. That is really positive and shows that she still wants a friendship. You need to be there for her as a friend, and hopefully it will develope back to a closer connection.

Start working on the detaching, look at your relationship now as a friend. Be there for her when she needs you, and learn to be ok when she can't be there. Your needs have to go to the back burner for now.

Start working on goals for yourself, and always have a backup plan for when she cancels. Go out and have fun and start working on your live, she will see this and hopefully will want to be a part of it.

You have to come to a point where you don't need her to be happy. You have to become happy without her. That will allow you to not be hurt as much, and having her back will just be icing on the cake that is your happy life. I have just recently learned this, so I know its a lot harder to say than do, but it can and must be done.

Lastly, let her some to your looking to spend time. I think calling her to ask her to do things so often is pressuring her. You really want her to pursue you. It wasn't until my W worried about losing me that she started coming back.


God Bless You, Reuben Cautiously hopeful and keeping the Momentum
#129709 02/09/04 04:05 PM
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Reuben,
You are so right! I was actually doing great until the past few weeks. I have been doing well at going back to school, and hanging out with friends and everything else, but I guess I got a little scared that I messed up because after her coming to me and asking me out, and calling me, and telling me its not too late, I backed off to give her time to tell her family and I was afraid I ruined something she was working on.

I guess if she really wants to work on things, 2 weeks of little contact wont destroy it. I have been doing so well, until last week and mostly yesterday and today and I dont know why I feel this way, but I guess its good that you are being so honest with me and setting me straight now before I get too pushy.

My original goal was to call her once a week or maybe twice to keep our communication open, but I got greedy and decided I would try to ask her out on weekends. Well, Ill keep our lines open by sending her an email or a phone call maybe once a week, but ill wait for her to ask me out.

Thanks Reuben! I needed that!


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#129710 02/09/04 04:16 PM
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No problem, and remember when she is the one asking you out it will feel so much better than you asking and her agreeing to it. And remember to take it as a positive sign, but not that shes fully committing to working it out. This all takes time.

Also, don't forget, when she does ask you to do things, you don't always have to accept!


God Bless You, Reuben Cautiously hopeful and keeping the Momentum
#129711 02/10/04 12:38 PM
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Well, I met with my counsler last night. It is the first time in 2 weeks. I am trying to cut down to every other week now. Ill see how it goes. Anyways, Im feeling a little better today after talking with my C and doing some thinking.

I think i was getting to ahead of myself and ignoring baby steps. Such as....

-She told me last month she thinks its just going to take time and its not too late.

-When I speak to her on the phone, we are talking much longer. usually from 30-60 minutes!

-When we do talk on the phone and I initiate ending the call first, she usually keeps my on.

-She came out to lunch with me on February 1st.

-She invited me to her ski trip, and when I offered not to come as to not cause tension with her sisters oressuring her about us, she said "NOOOOO!" very loud and upset as if she really wanted me there.


In closing, I am back to feeling better about my situation, only because I see that my GF is going through rough times with her family, and work, and she doesnt even feel like going out with her friends many times. She just seems down and I hope that I can help her out of her rut with a loving distance. I have faith that when she begins to make things happen in her life to make her happy again, she will look back to me and our relationship. Im keeping the faith!


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#129712 02/12/04 01:12 PM
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Ok, a few good things to report today!

Got call from GF on way home from work Tuesday. She wanted to discuss ski trip plans for Feb. 27 weekend. Good conversation. We spoke for about 25 minutes and she vented a little about the trip and asked my advice on things for planning and for food since she is in charge of it. Also, the best part of the call was when she told me she is coming home from work and going to drive up with me instead of her MF! I’m so happy for this! I know there is nothing going on between them, but I really don’t trust him due to issues in the past. Anyways, she seems glad I’m going. One more point was she discussed who I might be hanging out with because everyone in this cabin are mostly her new friends who I know but not as well as the other cabin that all her sisters and their friends are in. but it seemed like even she doesn’t plan to spend much time with them either because they are bringing their own friends too so hopefully we will be together but I will be sure to mingle and show her how social I can be. But at first I said, “are you sure you want me in your cabin?” and she replied , “ Yeah, Def… yeah, I want you in the cabin.” It seemed to woke her up a bit when I asked that. Kind of like a few weeks ago when I said maybe I shouldn’t come and she got upset and insisted. =)

On another note I took a day off with a friend and went snowboarding Wednesday. I drove to his mother’s house in upstate NY Tuesday night. While snowboarding, I got a call on top of the mountain. It was my GF! She just checked her mail bin (I guess she doesn’t check it often) She got a Chinese New Year card I sent to her about 3 weeks ago. I always wanted to ask If she ever got it but never did. Anyways, she said she liked it and called to say thank you. I am sure it made her happy when she saw this. I think it was a great touch! She apologized for interrupting my snowboarding and we got off.

10 minutes later, she called back! Wasn’t too important, but she and I have always talked about seeing the new Lord of the Rings movie and how we never saw it yet. Anyways, she found out its leaving the theatres soon and wanted me to know because she was making plans last minute with her sister to see it. I told her thank you but I actually saw it already. This surprised her and she asked right away with who I saw it with. She always asks about where Im going or who with. I told her I went with my brother. Anyways, She didn’t have to call but she cared enough to do so.

Im very positive that my new communication skills are paying off slowly. I see our communication improving more and more on the phone. God is good and I am so thankful for the help I am receiving. Well, that’s all for now!! Hopefully Ill be back soon!

Sorry for rambling, I like to be detailed.


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#129713 02/12/04 02:13 PM
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I just feel like posting this here because it feels nice to remember. On my way to work I suddenly remembered a dream I had last night. I was on the couch at my GF's place and she was with me. All of the sudden, she moved closer to me and surprised me about wanting to make things work. We didnt speak much but it felt more spiritual. Like the look in her eyes spoke to me and i could see the love inside her. Then we began to kiss passionatley.

What a great dream! I hope its a sign of whats to come. Never give up!! The reward in the end will be worth it!


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#129714 02/12/04 04:29 PM
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Im DB'ing my butt off!

I am trying to follow some major rules such as thought stopping and thinking about what I am looking to achieve from what I will do or say next.

Examples:

When I think of her hanging out with friends and especially her guy friends, I ignore it and remember all the psotives I have seen from her when I let her have her own time without complaints.

I have also learned to bite my tounge in many situations when she brings up the guy friend she seems to hang out with most. In the beginning of the break, and just befre the break, I complained about him and said not to trust him and she eventually stopped talking about him at all.

But now, she does talk to my about him. Shows she is trusting me again now that I have learned to bite my tounge! Also, This saturday her sisters are throwing a V-day party in the city at their apt. and she asked if I was going. I told her im going to the city with a friend and maybe ill stop by. She said she wasnt sure is she was going because this guy friend of hers wants to come to NJ to buy stuff for the upcoming ski trip cause she told him that places are cheaper in jersey. Anyways, i didnt say anything and she even said how she doesnt know why he wants to come all the way here and she doesnt even sound too interested in doing it, but I think she feels obligated because he is her friend. But, Im not letting it get to me. She is trusting me again. She is telling me all about her friends and her MF which is a big step!

Sorry for all the posts! I cant stop the positive thoughts from coming into my head and its exciting. I need to express it. I am praying I can be strong during V-day if I dont see her, and what should have been our 8 yr anniv. is on Feb. 23rd. I hope that strikes a cord in her.

I got a great V-day card for her that is very touching but not romantic. Its mainly about being such good friends and how much the friendship means to me. I showed it to my good friend who has been my main line of support and he thinks its great. She better love it, hell it makes me feel like crying when I read it! ha ha. ok, im done for today. I think...


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#129715 02/13/04 07:21 PM
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I had another dream last night of me and my GF getting back together! I love these dreams. Its been a while since I had them. Feels like they are coming back now that Im praying more. Maybe its the Lords way to talk to me.


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#129716 02/17/04 12:43 PM
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Ok, heres what happened for Valentines Day. Her sisters threw a party in Queens NY at here sisters apt. and she said she might go. I went anyways, and was hopiong to see her there. She did mention to me that her friend (man friend) wants to come to jersey to buy ski gear for the upcoming trip and might go saturday, V-day. Anyways, I was having fun but really missed her there and couldnt help but think of what she may be doing. I guess deep down I know if she was with him, its a a friend and thats it. But it still kills me!! and I get these crazy thoughts in my head!

After all, my jealousy of her friendship with him caused more of a riff earlier on so I must be strong and accept this friendship, its just that I dont trust him because he had a thing for her a while back and he is now single. Anyways, I stayed over at her sisters place and I had fun and loved being with them. I was invited to stay longer but I came home Sunday evening. It was a little upsetting because her sisters are like my own and they really think of me as a brother and part of me wanted to cry because I dont want to lose them either.

I sent her a text messagwe saying happy valentines day around midnight but she didnt respond and it bothered me a little.

Well, Sunday night while watching TV, I got a text message from her saying she was talking to her aunt on the phone and was bored. I am trying to be happy that she thought of me and thats a good thing. But still a little bothered I didnt hear back on V-day.

I got her a V-day gift and a card and I really want to give it to her. I brought it to the party but she didnt show. Well, last night on Monday I sent her text message saying hello and that I was taking a break from studying. This was around 10-ish and she IM me after Midnight. She probably didnt have her phone on or near her, but I wanted to actually call her to say hello but I settled for a text message.

I know I am failing at my need for patience. I am going to try harder and remember my thought stopping skills.

Recent Positives to Remeber

She called me on Tuesday to discuss ski trip and we had a very pleasant talk about several things and I made her laugh too.

She wants me to take her shopping for ski trip weekend.

She sounds like she is happy I am going to be in her cabin

She is driving up to the cabin with me instead of man friend now.

She called me Wednesday to Thank me for Card and Called me again to tell me about LOTR Movie.

After I asked God to show me a sign she cares on Sunday, she text messaged me at night.

She responded to my text message on Monday.



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#129717 02/17/04 01:10 PM
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One more thing. Im dying to ask her what she did for Valentines Day, Its kiling me!!

I want to know if she was with her man friend. It really bothers me that she didnt come to her sisters party. I know her youngest sister went out and thought she might be spending time with her dad since her mom is out of state now and he would be loneley but I found out he drove out to see her mom so that means she would be all alone, unless she went out with her friend. And Im also paranoid that she may have brought him to her house! Well, she always insisted he is like a brother to her bu tI dont trust him and Im just so mad she didnt want to spend time with me.

Help me clear these thoughts please!!!!!!!


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#129718 02/17/04 03:21 PM
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Marc,

Don't ask her about V-day, if she wants to share that with you she will. That will be a positive if she does, why make it just responses to your inquiries and presure.

You have to let your thought go about OM. You don't know any of whats going on between them and you may never. All you know is what she tells you, so why not take her on her word rather that imagining all the negative possibilites. I had and still have to with my W.

I look at it this way, if it was a friend sharing the information I would trust them until I had concrete evidence to the contrairy. Your GF is a Friend so why treat her differently. Have faith that what she is telling you is the truth, only God knows all the details.

Once you get to this point and you are open to her, and once she becomes comfortable around and talking with you again, she will start sharing the details of her day with you. It won't be everything, but you don't share everything either. Its feel will, you can't force someone to do something.

Take care, and ice that hit from my 2x4


God Bless You, Reuben Cautiously hopeful and keeping the Momentum
#129719 02/17/04 05:18 PM
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Thanks Reuben,
I know everything you said to do, its just so hard. I dont know why we let our fears come out on top from time to time. Well, I guess its just mixed emotions from V-day and Im also scared for our anniversary thats coming up on the 23rd. Well, At least I will be spending the following weekend with her skiing. Something to look forward to!


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#129720 02/18/04 01:50 PM
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Well, Today is the day Im going to call my GF as part of my plan to keep communication open between us. I wish she was initiating more contact on her own, but I know I shouldnt expect too much. After all, when we talk, she doesnt usually want to go when I try to. I think its her pride that holds her back a lot.

Anyways, Im going to try and stay focused on the fact that she told me its still not too late last month and its going to take time. Its hard to ge this into my head and have faith in it but I know I must.

I think I will call my friend before I call her to help boost my confidence and make me more upbeat too. Wish me luck everyone!


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#129721 02/19/04 12:35 PM
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Ok, well Wednesday was a good day in my book!

I emailed GF about places to help her find jobs because she is very unhappy in her current position. Anyways, instead of e-mailing me back, she called me later that afternoon.

We spoke for 30 minutes and she used most of that time to vent about her sisters and some issues with friends. As always, I made sure to show complete empathy for her and it went well.

I stayed later at work so I can listen to her and eventually had to go for a DR’s appt and told her I would call her back later.

I called her later that night and it started off very well with some joking and she got settled into bed and began to open up to me about more of her problems. We spoke this time for an hour! She talked a lot about her man friend, which does bother me, but she is just friends with him, and she used to not bring his name up because it would bother me so Im thinking it shows her trust for me is increasing.

Also spoke about upcoming ski trip and how she is making a list of food and she included me in her small group of people to share food with. Im very pleased with this! I am taking her food shopping on Sunday and Im hoping I can also have lunch or dinner with her but I wont push for much.

I think things are going well. Slowly? YES!!! But in the right direction none the less. Each building block will hopefully bring us closer and closer.

Wish me luck!!


P.S. Another thing is she didnt say goodbye to me on the phone at all! This is important to me because we would never say goodbye because it always sounded too permanent and would usually end our conversations with goodnight or later. Anyways, I cant expect this to happen all the time but its always nice to see her old self peek through once in a while.


Anything worth having is worth working HARD for! Making a New Move
#129722 02/19/04 06:30 PM
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Hey Marc_d!

Lots of great baby steps!

You are definately moving in the right direction!!

Keep up the good work!

Hugs!


PIB
#129723 02/19/04 08:27 PM
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Thanks so much! I love the support!




On another note, my GF emailed me a copy of a IM chat she had with one of her friends she is fighting with and wanted to keep me informed on the new happenings since we talked about it last night.

I called her back to discuss it becuase its easier than typing. I left her a messsage and she called me back and we talked for 20 minutes with her venting mostly and I did everything I could to validate her and not offer suggestions but to listen. I did great!

At the end we talked about a few other things and joked around a little. Im just happy we are talking more often and for longer periods. Im going to try to take everything with a grain of salt!

Im also going to look forward to food shopping with her this weekend.



Anything worth having is worth working HARD for! Making a New Move
#129724 02/20/04 05:39 PM
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Had another positive step today!

She emailed me asking my opinion on some places that offer online classes. I think she is looking to take some extra schooling because she doesnt like her job and hasnt had much luck in finding a new one.

I responded back with positive re-enforcement on the whole concept of taking online classes and said I was proud of her, and I gave her my opinions on the classes and mentioned this would be good to talk over instead of typing too much.

Anyways, This is another step towards us moving closer. She is opening up to me a lot latley and I know I cant rush things but this is contributed to my new communication and my new approach using empathy. I love this and I thank God for all the blessings I am recieving. I pray that this is a beginning of great things yet to come!


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Ok, well as I said earlier, we had plans to go shopping for food for the ski trip next weekend so We met up and she looked great! She did her make-up and everything and I told her that she looked great! I was wearing just a t-shirt purposely to show off how much wieght I lost and so she can see my biceps have gotten bigger because I have been working out hard. I made a muscle for her and she said it was impressive. Im making sure I look my best. Cant hurt to try to get her attracted to me again.

We got into the car and I gave her a Valentines day card and a gift. She was surprised and felt bad she didnt get me anything but I was fine with it. She read the card that I went to 5 stores to find the right one. It was very touching but no romantic overtones and reffered to her as a friend and she kind of laughed at that part. I bought her a DVD called Anne of Green Gables, which I rememberred from a few years ago how she liked it a lot. I think she was very suprised it was something with meaning which I rememberred.

Anyways, we went to the store and we had a great time. We were getting along perfectly, just without being affectionate. I was just focusing on having a lot of positive energy coming from me and it worked. After food shopping we went to the mall next door for lunch / dinner. As we got to the car, I opened the door for her like I used to and as I waled around the car, she leaned over and opened my door from the inside. that made me feel so happy I cant explain it.

We went to the mall and She had a few phone calls from her friends, and one happened to be her guy friend but I didnt let it bother me to the point where I would act out of my emotions. After all, it was mostly talk about the ski trip and food everyone would like.

We went to eat and we talked a lot about regular stuff and I asked about her work and I talked about the night before how I went clubbing with some friends. She was asking me if anyone got girls #'s or if I danced with anyone and other questions. I think she is testing me. She also asked if I am still seeing a therapist and if I told my family. I think she just likes to see if Im writing her off yet. We talked a lot and she made comment about me losing a lot of wieght too. She did bring up fact how her family questions her friendship with Guy friend because they dont think she should be friends with a man unless its me, even though her other sisters do. I think its just because they know there are problems with us. Anyways, she also mentioned how they questioned how her friend came from NY to jersey on valentines day to go shopping with her for ski gear for this trip. It bothered me that she was with him on that day, but she is just friends and she makes it clear to me all the time and I trust her. I really, really do. But she is telling me about him and her other friends and her activities which is showing an increase in trust!

So, we left the mall and once again I opened the door and she opened mine again. I brought in the food with her and shortly after I left. The whole day was very positive with lots of communication and joking around and having fun. I think it went great and will lead up to a great weekend together next weekend!

I think thats all for now. It was a great day and If I think of anything else, Ill be back. Wish me luck everyone!!


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Ok, well today should be our 8 year anniversary. I know we had a good day yesterday, but as soon as I saw the date today, my heart felt like it sunk into my stomach. I should probably leave well enough alone and focus on having a wonderful Anniversary next year. Their will always be more right? But a little boost of support would be nice to help me through the day. Im glad I have a therapist appt. tonight. Ive been really good but I may need it.


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Hey Marc!

Great stuff!

First, you found out where she was on Vday and what she was doing...and she told you that voluntarily! Awesome baby step!

Plus, I know she's going to be noticing that today is your anniversary. So, she'll be thinking about you...

Plus, since you did so well yesterday, all of her thoughts bout you will be positive!

That's incredibly great!

So...picture this...she'll be thinking that it's your anniversary...she'll be missing you...and she'll be remembering the wonderful time y'all had as recently as yesterday.

That's enough to make her rethink the situation...and wonder why she left!!

You are doing GREAT!

Hugs!


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PIB,
You really know how to make a guy feel great! I printed out what you said to read whenever I feel like I need a boost.

The only dillema I have now is this weekends ski trip. Im really looking forward to it to spend all weekend with her, and the drive up and back we will be alone. However, the cabin we are staying in is with all of her friends and her guy friends, especially the one I dont trust because he used to like her a while back. I dont want to seem pushy or like Im controlling but I dont know how I will control my jealousy and not try to keep an eye on him all weekend long.

I know nothing is going on with them for several reasons, but also, shy on earth would she invite me if there was? And when I offered not to go a few weeks ago, she got upset and yelled "NO!"

Anyone have any suggestions on dealing with my fears and overactive imagination on this? I think I will be able to handle this if she includes me with her friends and I dont feel left out. Im very scared I can make a good impression this weekend.

Im going to Pray really hard so that God can help me control my emotions.


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Marc,

You MUST not show ANY jealousy around her. NONE AT ALL, women hate jealous men and need to feel that they are justed by the ones they care about. She is going to probably test you, many WAS do this.

Just have fun, and don't focus on just her. Go out and have a good time with everyone there, even this guy you don't trust. At this point your GF and you are Freinds, and you have to treat the sitch as such. I know it will be hard, but friends wouldn't get jealous so you have to not be.

If needed find a distraction technique to use if you start to feel jealous. Make it so no one would notice it. Remember you outward expressions can give you away. If you believe nothing is going on with them, then do and think "as if" there is nothing going on and they are just close friends. Or even better yet, think to yourself that he is just her long lost brother.

Don't know if this will help, but you do know what you must do. Enjoy yourself, and leave the sitch thoughts and discussions her on the DB BB.


God Bless You, Reuben Cautiously hopeful and keeping the Momentum
#129730 02/24/04 08:10 PM
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Ok, well I have not made any goals for myself and the relationship in ages so thats what Im going to attempt now. I must admit I got a lot of them from another thread but I personalized it a little. Its just that these goals were so similiar to my own!

--What I am doing...
Paying attention to her and being truly interested.
Listening w/o judging or offering solutions.
Validating her feelings.
Responding to her.
Responding to her requests.
Giving unconditional love.
Not being defensive.
"Detaching" (letting go).
Choosing to be happy.
Staying in shape, regular gym.
Trying to watch my budget.
Continuing with 2nd semester of school in 2 weeks(shows Im planning for future)
Giving her space, allowing her to do what she chooses with her time and her friends.
Becoming more religous.

--What she is doing that I appreciate...
Being friendly.
Making small talk with me.
Calling me, text message me, or email me more often.(longer phone calls too!)
Smiling around me, laughing.
Comments that I look great.
Talking to me about her day, her life, her feelings.
Opening up about her man friends that she was keeping private before due to my jealousy.
Told me about who she's been primarily confiding in.
Told me on New Years she is not going to tell me its too late, and that its just going to take time.
Invited me to ski trip with her friends and wanted me in her cabin with her and friends.
Changed her mind to drive up to cabin with me instead of her guy friend.
She has been making herelf look nice for me.
Opened my car door after I opened hers as I walked around.

--Ongoing Goals (one small step at a time)...
That she would touch me more
That she will continue to open up to me.
That she would choose to spend more time with me.
That she would suggest us doing an activities together.
That she would ask me out on a "date".
That she will talk about us more.
That she would hug me or give me a small kiss.
That she would choose to do something special for me
That she would say that she is interested in talking about how our relationship could work.
That she would say or imply that there is more of a chance for our relationship.
That she would say that she would like to focus on us and our relationship.


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#129731 02/24/04 09:05 PM
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marc,

I don't have much time to reply, but good for you to start some goals.

First suggestion, flip your goals about what you are doing. Give yourself priority first (1st step to detachment).

Second, this is a good start...lets time to fine tune this list down to maybe 4 or 5 managable ones (again focus on you). Then start to form a list of specific actions you can take to achieve them. For example:
Become more Regligious :
1). I will attend Church every Sunday and Holy Days
2). I will Read part of the Bible every night and reflect on it for 15-30mins.
3). I will join a religious group or bible study group.

This is just an example, but I think you get the point. Get your list manageable, and even some look like they can be combined or become action items.

Lastly, your ongoing goals...These you have NO Control over so they are not good goals. These are a list of things you will start noticing as the R gets better. Its good to make a list like this so you can guage the progress, but they are not goals. List a few of these after you goals you can work on that affect the relationship and use as guages for your goals. Take a look at MracDinFog's thread, he listed goals out like this (look at specific of things to notice if R goal is being achieved)

Hope that helps, I can clarify later. Oh and maybe start a new thread on you own with these in as the begining. WOuld help more people to see your thread and respond, and good work for others here in peicing.

Take care and I will pray for your progress.


God Bless You, Reuben Cautiously hopeful and keeping the Momentum
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