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Ah, I guess it's time for an update <Uh, oh. Another book coming...>

I was in a pretty good mood this evening ( and most of the day). As I drove to tonight's DivorceCare meeting, I called to talk to my 2 S's, as usual, to catch them before bedtime. At the end, W started telling me she was planning to take our S's to see her aunt and uncle later this month, after Christmas. I asked her about the health of her sickly uncle, and while he's not doing well, somehow she segued us to saying something about how everything would be better "if I would just go ahead and sign the papers."

At first I didn't know what she was talking about, now how it related to the price of tea in China, just more alien nonsense, but then realized she was talking about her precious Separation Agreement (SA).

This started another disagreement. W insists that I need to sign her SA to make what we are supposedly abiding by legal and in writing. I told her I had not nor would I sign any of the drafts for her SA as written because I did not fully agree to the terms she had put in there. W responded that if I don't sign her SA then it was going to mean $65 to $100 an hour for a mediator, or even more for a lawyer, which was senseless and more money than either of us could afford. It would mean driving up our debt even more.

I responded that even mediation wouldn't be necessary if she would at least listen to and discuss my own counter offers and my own terms so we can reach a mutually-agreeable compromise. She complained that when she wrote the SA I was sitting near by and she "discussed" with me what she was putting into the document (Mind you, this was the very first week after the "bomb", when I was shell-shocked and too emotionally overwhelmed to be making a life-altering decision like that, without legal counsel or even proper consideration for my own interests. W was using one of the on-line legal forms vendors to put together her document -- and was trying to railroad me into terms unfair to me.) W thinks that I was fully in agreement with her terms, when we both know I told her then as well as now, that I disagree with her terms and believe she is leaving out stipulations that I want addressed. W shot back that she was not going to allow clauses that had nothing to do with either custody or with separating our finances -- she said I couldn't put any of that "irrelevant, silly stuff" about reconciliation or about restrictions on dating other into the agreement, as I had asked for before.

I told W that even for the terms she specified concerning finances and child custody (she is calling it, sneakily, "visitation". Hah! I wasn't born yesterday!), I don't agree with the terms she's drafted there. She asked how so. I told her for one thing I want not only joint legal custody, but joint physical custody of our S's.

W's response was "Wha-? How do you propose that would work?" I told her I already have custody on the two Weekend days, I would expect to have custody on one additional day during the week. I can pick them up on a Wednesday evening, they would stay with me overnight, and I would see them to the bus stop and preschool the next morning.

W said, "That won't work. How will this offer any consistency and continuity to S6's schedule? S6 doesn't need to have any additional disruptions in his life - how is this going to help that?"

I replied, "It won't offer any more drastic a change in his life than what he's already been suffering under this separation you have demanded."

W then took another tact. "But how are you going to be able to get them to where they need to be the next day? I thought your work was so demanding -- that's why we had to separate, because you value your job more than your children."

I replied, "I will make the adjustment, and my employer will have to get used to it."

W: "Even if it means you don't get to work until 10 Am that day?"
Me: "Yes."

Then W repeated one of her oft-quoted refrains whenever I do or say something that throws a monkey-wrench into her stereotyping of me, "I am sorry it took me leaving you before you would ______." (Fill in the blank.) In this case, "... before you would be your sons' father." She went further, "I guess my leaving you has proven to be a good thing, if it means you are getting to appreciate your sons and do all this for them."

That's when it began to spiral out of control. She was continuing to pat herself on the back for leaving me, and I began to try to refute this alien illogic. We started arguing more vehemently. She insisted that I was never going to change, and that she had to leave me for the sake of our sons (so why does she need me to actively be their father if I am such a horrible person?)

I asked her why was it necessary for us to communicate better, especially with regards to my counseling and my spiritual healing, when that has no bearing on the raising of our S's in separate households, as separate parents -- that would really be none of her business. If we are, in her opinion, irreconcilable and there is no way we could ever be together again as husband and wife, meaning we will no longer be one happy family, then why the pretense for us to have such personal talks (one-sided as they are, with me spilling my guts)? All we would need to exchange is impersonal information about our S's and nothing more.

W still evades the question. Instead she lobs grenades at me about how she can never and will never trust me ever again. Again, I ask, so why the pretense?

I then went anti-DB by telling her she knows nothing about what reconciliation really is. I told her she bristles at the very mention of the term and yet she hasn't even considered that there are degrees of reconciliation. I told her that without some minimal level of reconciling our differences, at the very least, we were not going to have much success in co-parenting our kids. And until then these one-sided conversations were pointless. As if to prove my point about her stubborn intolerance, W stated that we were not ever going to reconcile. To which I said, "Then we're never going to be able to have even a civil discussion about their well being. A first level of reconciliation means that both parents agree to and focus on being civil with each other at the very least. This is a long way off from a full reconciliation of the M, which you are so blindly dead set against."

I was quite testy with W by this time. I was sitting in the parking lot, late for going into my meeting, and I was trying to find some way to bring closure to this disturbing talk with W. I was fighting to keep from breaking down. She put me in such a dark mood, laying this whammy on me right before my Monday night meeting. I realized I had allowed her to drag me back into another R talk, a morass of senseless, angry words. She circled back around to the SA again, to which I asked, "Why? What's so important about a SA? I am true to my word. The agreement you sign, however, is not worth the paper its written on -- no more so than the one you signed 16 years ago."

W insists she's "done". She can never go back to being neglected like I did to her before. I told her, "In all honesty, do you really think I would want either of us to go back into that same situation as it was before? No. I care to much for you -- and myself -- to ever have that happen again."

I finally told W I had to go and ended the conversation. I went into my meeting a mass of frazzled nerves, trying to fight back the tears. She says she's done; well, I guess I am too. But the meeting (with a lead-off sermon on peace making, and a main topic of helping children during divorce) got me to thinking: maybe I am not being clear-headed enough -- I need to keep the welfare of my two little boys in mind.

After the meeting, I called W's cellphone to see if she wanted to finish our conversation, since I ended it so abruptly. She was still putting the boys to bed (after 8:30 AM on a school night) and would be too tired to talk tonight afterwards. She told me she sent me an email, and that we could discuss this via writing.

Here's what she sent:

"Well, I wouldn't mind if you had another day with the kids, but it would be
very detrimental for their week to be broken up. The teacher's will tell
you, it would be torture for S6 & harmful to S3. So you could do
Thurs. night or Sun night. I will update the separation agreement & when you
sign it at the bank with a notary present you can start taking them an extra
day.
Thank you,
W
"

W is still on this SA. Still.

And she is still not hearing me -- this was only one of many changes I have in mind for our so-called agreement.

I can't say that, at this point, I am opposed to the very idea of an SA -- just to the way W wants it to be worded. I am thinking though, that maybe these should be broken down into separate agreements -- a Custody Agreement, a Financial Separation Agreement, a Marital Separation Agreement. It might mean easier and more malleable terms for each, and which one can be altered without affecting the others. I have to think more on this, and gather some thoughts from others.

I am also giving serious thought to drafting a first-of-its-kind Reconciliation Agreement.


Me: 49
WAW: 47
S11, S7
Years Married/Together: 17/18
Bomb: 6/15/07
Separation: 7/6/07
D: 4/3/09

Real love is a decision.
Marriage is a commitment.
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No Code... I hate to say it man but its time to lawyer up. Do not sign anything in your present condition, trust me. You can potentially be making one of the biggest mistakes in your life by not knowing your rights as a father.

Your W is only thinking of herself right now, you need to think about No Code.

I know it sucks, Im in the same boat and filing for the Big D on Wednesday to protect my D.


Hurtin: 32
WAW: 30
D: 8
Bomb: 10/05
Sep: 12/05
Back together 8/07
Bomb (OM): 11/07
Filed for D (me): 12/07
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I agree. I don't know if you need a lawyer, but you need the mediator. It would be worth it to me to pay $65.00 to avoid an hour of this kind of arguing. By the way, congratulations. You fought hard and actually won a concession from her. It's not easy.

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Yes, I hate to say it, but it looks like I am headed for a contentious D. I have already had a free first counsel with a lawyer. But I don't feel I got a lot out of it -- they let me do most of the talking and give them my story, but they're holding out for a retainer before giving me any useful legal advice. I suppose you get what you pay for, but I can't say that impresses me much.

A friend of mine in my DivorceCare group works for a law firm - she offered to talk to her employers about whether they might have an opening to at least talk to me about my options. I may have to take her up on that offer if it materializes.

Last evening, one of the things W asked me about was whether I still had a homework sheet for S6 -- I had forgotten to pack it when dropping the boys off Sunday evening. Well I picked up my dry cleaning tonight, which is just right around the corner from the house -- so I decided to drop off the homework sheet. While they did not seem overly surprised to see me, the boys got all excited and wound up -- they had each worked on birthday cards for me (tomorrow is my birthday) and they joyfully showed them to me.

I hugged them and said my goodbyes, thanking them for such wonderful handiwork on these cards. S3 started breaking down crying because I was leaving. I ran back to him to console him and remind him that, on an up-note, that tomorrow he would have the fun of going to Preschool. He brightened a little at that.

And so I was able to leave. (Yes, it still kills me to part from my family.)

I got home an hour later and noticed I had a voicemail on my cellphone. It was W. She started in on me, saying "If you have any love or regard for your children..." and then told me I needed to call first before showing up at the door. She insisted that my dropping by unannounced got them so wound up that S6 was having difficulty returning to his homework. She said giving me another night during the week would, as she put it, "terrorize" S6 and prevent him from being able to adjust to the breakup of the weekly structure he needs.
(Umm, like the separation she has demanded wasn't responsible for his disruption in the first place?!)
She said that originally she felt it was in our S's best interest to seriously limit their exposure to me, because I was so "dark" and negatively affecting them -- and that she just couldn't and cannot bear to ever be with me (same old rehash.) She trailed off the message almost sobbing, saying I have no idea what harm my presence has had on our S's...

First, W is most definitely projecting her angst with me onto our S's. I have a great and wonderful relationship with my two boys, and I can see the pain they suffer when one of us, their mother or their father, is departing, leaving them with the other parent. They know the family is not coming together, that Mommy and Daddy are continually going opposite directions. And that is what saddens them. As for S6, children often act out when their parents are not getting along or are moving apart, even when they don't fully understand why themselves. That's why S6 was being uncooperative with finishing his homework. But W would rather project the problem onto me.

Second, I am really tired of W continuing to make me out to be the most horrible monster that ever lived. I know I have faults and that I have sinned, but I have never harmed anyone deliberately or with malice. I don't hate anybody, and I lead a dull, clean life, but I am a workaholic who tends to gets too wrapped up in work. I don't tend to be the best manager of my time and efforts, and I can get lost in the weeds at times. I confess my depression and that I let it overpower my life and nearly ruin my family. But this demonization by w is over the top. If I am that horrible, and incapable of learning from my mistakes and growing, then I wouldn't want me to raise my S's either. But her hyperbole is so grating.

Third, she knows subconsciously the way to really hurt me now is to threaten what is left of my family: my 2 sons. She knows how that is the one thing I will defend, if nothing else.


Me: 49
WAW: 47
S11, S7
Years Married/Together: 17/18
Bomb: 6/15/07
Separation: 7/6/07
D: 4/3/09

Real love is a decision.
Marriage is a commitment.
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Well NCB, Happy Birthday (mine is Friday).

I couldn't imagine having to listen to that VM from your W but I think you're correct in saying that it is her angst and bitterness and probably even guilt that's causing those words.

Do not let her convince you that you are a disruption to those boys' lives.

Did she offer any insight into how calling ahead would be better?

I'm sorry to hear this from you. Hope you had a good day anyway.


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Me: 39/W: 37
D13-D11-S8
M/T 14/20

EA confirmed: 9/13/07
D-Bomb: 9/19/07
OM Gone since 12/18/07
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Quote:
Third, she knows subconsciously the way to really hurt me now is to threaten what is left of my family: my 2 sons.


This is so cruel in my book. What a deep wound for your wife to be constantly inflicting on you. I am without words.

About an atty, I got a ton of advice (legal) over the phone without hiring him. Try another attorney.

Super HUGS!

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Thanks, Michael, Happy Birthday to you too!

Don't worry, everyone. I can see what W is doing, but it still hurts -- and it is a very sad indication as to how far apart we still are and how unlikely the situation is to improve.

Thanks, for the hugs, Lwb.

I just don't understand this desire, conscious or not, to inflict pain on me -- continually. I know I shouldn't expect much, if anything at all, from W. But she just would not acknowledge to me directly that it was my birthday. She reminded my 2 S's to tell me that when I talked to them on the cellphone today, for which I am grateful. But then she left me this irritated voicemail while I was talking with my father this evening -- she snidely told me that I had to remember to tell all of my friends and family that they should call me at my cellphone number instead of the land line at our house. She complained that she kept getting interrupted by other people calling while she was already trying to talk to her cousin on that line. (I wanted to call W back and tell her, "Life sure sux for you, don't it!")

I told my mother last night, after she called to wish me happy b'day, that I was done with W until she starts waking up, if ever. I have gotten to the point where I don't care anymore. The person that W is right now is just too abhorrent to try to have a life with. W is so hellbent on proving the old adage, "Like Mother, Like Daughter."

Like I told Jarhead in his thread, I also told my mother that because I know that the time it will take to properly heal is on the order of four years or so, I am facing being single for quite a while. On the other hand, there's no harm in leaving the door open for W to return, at least until I have had the time to heal. It appears to be highly unlikely for her to return, but it doesn't hurt to keep the avenue open anyway.

So, it's time to redouble the effort to let go and let God. To detach, GAL, focus on me, etc. I am not going to be snowed again by W and distractions in the name of "improving communication", not while they're really one-sided.

I am in the process of writing a revised Separation Agreement. I will at some point present this to legal advice.

Last edited by NoCodeBlues; 12/13/07 03:25 AM.

Me: 49
WAW: 47
S11, S7
Years Married/Together: 17/18
Bomb: 6/15/07
Separation: 7/6/07
D: 4/3/09

Real love is a decision.
Marriage is a commitment.
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 5,643
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HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!!!

Someone tonight (the only coworker that knows about this) said to me "Why would you allow him to separate from you AND possibly see OW?". I sat there for a second and said "Well, for me, right now, I need to leave that teeny tiny crack in the window open for H, so when I am finally ready to let go completely, I'll be ready".

Mr Ohio_Mark once said, "I am not in a hurry to reconcile and I am not in a hurry to get a divorce". So true.

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Happy Birthday to you, Happy Birthday to you, Happy Birthday Dear NC, Happy Birthday to you...(The voice of an angel, not really, just be glad you are reading this instead of listening to it.)

Your wife makes me so mad. She is the one that disrupted the family. She turned the boys' lives upside down. Good...if she has a little inconvenience. I hate it for her. Oh, by the way let her be the one to have to explain why you aren't at home answering the phone, again her choosing. Let her live with the consequences!




Life's challenges are not supposed to paralyze you, they're supposed to help you discover who you are.
-- Bernice Johnson Reagon


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Thanks, Lwb. You are so wonderful.

And I agree, Mark's comment is spot-on.


Me: 49
WAW: 47
S11, S7
Years Married/Together: 17/18
Bomb: 6/15/07
Separation: 7/6/07
D: 4/3/09

Real love is a decision.
Marriage is a commitment.
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