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Save that one for why you're the better parent at the D proceedings. God forbid it gets that far.

That's nothing she should tell a 6 yr old.


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The Forlorn Hope:...A picked body of men detached to the front to begin the attack....Fortified, meaning strengthened to stand...and thus, positioned for victory
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Hello, Forlorn.

I don't think W told S6 directly about what she thinks (at the least I really hope she wouldn't.) S6 probably overheard W and MIL conversing about me. (S6 tends to be a bit of a sponge.)

Last edited by NoCodeBlues; 11/20/07 08:17 PM.

Me: 49
WAW: 47
S11, S7
Years Married/Together: 17/18
Bomb: 6/15/07
Separation: 7/6/07
D: 4/3/09

Real love is a decision.
Marriage is a commitment.
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<journaling>
I struggle with myself at times in how I respond to my W sometimes. She says she appreciates it when I communicate with her now -- but it is pleasant only because she gets to hear me admit to my faults while avoiding hers. We never address her A, her MLC or her shift in values. I realize I may never get an admission or and acknowledgment from her for why she is walking away, but it's so unfair.

When I began dating my W over 17 years ago, she was coming out of a bad relationship. W has had self-esteem problems stemming from an abusive step-mother, which has translated into a string of bad relationships with men who did not treat her right. W was going to therapy with a support group for co-dependency. Her problem was that she had been choosing "broken" men assuming they would love her back for "fixing " them. I realize now that it gave her a measure of control over them as well, something else she enjoys.

W said that when she began dating me she was ready to start a relationship with someone who was whole and unbroken, someone she didn't have to "fix" -- me. But I saw the person she really was, the beautiful, God-fearing soul she had deep down despite life's adversities, and that is who I fell in love with.

But all through the years of our relationship, W kept putting herself down, saying I married "damaged goods". I know she was partly fishing for complements from me, but also she was partly feeling some of her self-esteem angst. I spent a lot of time trying to convince her she was wrong, sometimes getting a bit upset with her for "trashing the woman I love".

And I have had to deal with her lack of trust problems too. She sometimes expressed disbelief that I could have really fallen in love with her, that she was too damaged and unworthy of being loved. She would frequently doubt my love was real, and I spent so much energy trying to convince her otherwise.

Oddly, as she gained experience in her career and then later as a mother, her confidence grew. Along with her arrogance. I thought she was past the esteem problems, but those never really went away. There just never was a healthy middle ground.

So now that W has suppressed the soul of the woman I married and appears to have lost her mind, I am beginning to think that I agree with her original premise. The point I am trying to make is that in my most recent conversations with W I find I am debating with myself to tell her this:

"You know, W, all these years you've been trying to tell me you were damaged goods, even arguing with me. But now I think you have finally convinced me."

Last edited by NoCodeBlues; 11/21/07 05:09 AM.

Me: 49
WAW: 47
S11, S7
Years Married/Together: 17/18
Bomb: 6/15/07
Separation: 7/6/07
D: 4/3/09

Real love is a decision.
Marriage is a commitment.
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Hey Nocode,

I think all of our spouses have a low self esteen problem. If they did not then why would they degrade themselves into this affair sitch.

The more I try to understand the more confused I get

Husband.


And if I claim to be a wise man, well
It surely means that I don't know
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Hello, Husband, and everyone,

I hope everyone's TG day went well. I thought I'd log on this evening to reflect a bit about the last day. It was different, in an odd sort of way, but pleasant.

I picked up my 2 S's last night and brought them back to the apartment to eat dinner. We watched "Evan Almighty" (a cute movie, BTW. S's just love the animals and the slapstick comedic scenes.)

I tried contacting a friend of mine from my DivorceCare group; she had sent me a reply to a message I sent her earlier in the morning, which she had indicated that she would be spending the holiday without her two children and without her family. I did not actually see her reply until just before I left work, several hours later, and was alarmed and concerned.

I quickly fired off an email back to her telling her that if she was not spending TG with either family or friends, then to call me: she is welcome to have come over and share a TG meal and company with myself and my two S's -- no one should have to be alone on such a major holiday. I tried to call her phone number but there was no answer (wondering now if I had her number correct.)

This morning I got up at dawn -- the boys never, ever let me sleep in; they're early risers -- and after preparing them breakfast, I launched into starting the Thanksgiving meal. I also did a lot of house cleaning between tasks in the kitchen. All told, a very productive morning and at the same time I got to interact and visit with my kids.

I called my support group friend again, and got no reply. I prayed that I either misunderstood, or that she had already made arrangements with friends.

The TG meal I prepared was pretty darn good, if I don't say so myself. I had a boneless turkey breast, stuffing, gravy, green beans, cranberry compote, and an apple pie (S6's choice), but I got distracted at one point and burned the bottoms of the dinner rolls (they were just fine once I sliced that part off of each.)

My 2 S's ate okay, starting strong but dropping off quickly. They were likely still full from breakfast, and I was not so concerned they got very full at the midday meal since they were going to repeat this meal in the evening back in our house with W and the MIL. W was going to be working all day today and I invited her to stop by my place if she was in the area at the time and wanted to get a good lunch. I made the offer out of sincerity and concern, but I did not think she would take me up on it, and she did not.

And oddly enough, W had invited me over to eat TG meal with them in the evening, if I wanted. She offered again today, and I accepted. So, when I took our 2 S's back this evening, I stayed long enough to have a meal with them. MIL had prepared the meal, and had included a number of additional items I lacked in my own. It was good and the turkey was a little better than mine -- a bit more moist (a whole bird just cooks better.) And S's ate a little better too.

I thanked W and complemented and thanked MIL. I could tell MIL seemed to accept my presence with a bit of disdainful tolerance. She would have preferred I was not there, partaking of her hard work, that was obvious, but she was congenial. I was secretly chuckling to myself that MIL was probably upset with W for even making the invitation, but I decided I wasn't going to let that bother me.

As for my W, she also was congenial and friendly, but still standoffish and still trying to avoid physical contact. I am not entirely certain of her motivations. If I had to guess, W made the offer for the sake of our S's and so she could avoid any negative impressions be taken by our boys if their father was not there for this important occasion. It may also be just plain ole' guilt.

W was also probably annoyed that I would attempt my own meal in lieu of allowing her and her mother to have control over that venue for our 2 S's. If so, then tough -- this is what divorce looks like, baby.

In retrospect, putting out verbal invitations to my TG meal to both my W and my support group friend -- an attractive younger lady -- was probably not a very wise thing to do. I know, I know, this is dangerous waters. When folks like us are going through our situations, one has to be very careful with friends of the opposite gender. I know full well that I am no where near any point of starting a new relationship -- especially when I am still married to my W. Even if I were already D'ed, I know that I would still be years away from where a new relationship would be right and fair to the other person (one rule of thumb I heard was the average is one year for every four years married -- yikes!) So, this is (has to be) definitely a gesture of Christian agape-type friendship.

However, if the stars had aligned just so and my friend had indeed joined me and my S's for TG -- and then my W had decided to swing by for that lunch I offered... Hoooo, boy! W would not have seen anything but her H being an adulterous, backstabbing demon from hell -- and nothing on God's green earth would ever convince her that she had not already been guilty of the very same.


Me: 49
WAW: 47
S11, S7
Years Married/Together: 17/18
Bomb: 6/15/07
Separation: 7/6/07
D: 4/3/09

Real love is a decision.
Marriage is a commitment.
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nocode, KUDOS to you for preparing a wonderful meal for your kids, interacting with them, and just plain loving them. And I am glad you accepted the invitation to W's and MIL's. You are right, MIL was probably miffed that you were there, but tough toodles. \:\)

PS: Someone else joked with me on here that when we put our profiles on match.com in the years to come, we'll say "Must be a LBS" and if the person reading it, doesn't know what it means, then they aren't for us. \:\)

Did you ever hear from your friend?

LL44 #1273356 11/24/07 03:32 AM
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Hello, Lwb, I hope your TG with your DD's was wonderful. Thanks for the words of encouragement.

I still haven't heard from my friend -- if I don't hear from her before, I will see her again Monday evening. In retrospect, I think maybe her H had custody of their children (two adorable little girls about the same ages as yours, lwb) for TG and was taking them to the IL's. I am hoping that this means she was able to go to her own family's for TG (I know her mother passed away from cancer about a year ago, right about the time she and her H separated. So maybe her father was holding festivities that she could attend. I'll find out whenever I do talk to her again.)

I've had a lot of family and friends (newfound and old) concerned for my own well-being during this holiday, including another person in this same support group. It has really touched me and given me a lot of hope in my fellow man, and I want to make sure that none of my friends are ever in such a situation either.


Me: 49
WAW: 47
S11, S7
Years Married/Together: 17/18
Bomb: 6/15/07
Separation: 7/6/07
D: 4/3/09

Real love is a decision.
Marriage is a commitment.
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 5,643
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Quote:
It has really touched me and given me a lot of hope in my fellow man, and I want to make sure that none of my friends are ever in such a situation either.


Isn't it amazing (at least for me) how much our compassion/understanding has grown through this big ol' mess? I am much more observant of other people and want to help in any way I can. I look everywhere for signs of good people, trustworthy people.

I hope your friend was with her family.

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Oh, I forgot to mention that I finally have an answer to what is going to happen on the weekend of our nephew's wedding. I asked W point blank, and she had decided not to go at all. She is taking the money she would have spent on airfare to fly down to Mississppi for this event and instead is giving it to our nephew as part of their nest egg.

So, the question is now just a mute point.


Me: 49
WAW: 47
S11, S7
Years Married/Together: 17/18
Bomb: 6/15/07
Separation: 7/6/07
D: 4/3/09

Real love is a decision.
Marriage is a commitment.
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,666
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NC,
I hope your son enjoyed his B-day!




Life's challenges are not supposed to paralyze you, they're supposed to help you discover who you are.
-- Bernice Johnson Reagon


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