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#1173623 - 08/23/07 02:01 PM Re: "Fetch me the witch's broom........" [Re: FaithfulH]
Lissie Offline
Member

Registered: 07/28/07
Posts: 4626
HOLY COW

FAithful H I really do luv ya.

I even love Frank D always writes, I respect it so much

But guys, I think that what some people are trying to say is SCRAP the marriage talk, run do not walk to the nearest mental facility

it has NOTHING to do with saving your marriage

that is the LAST thing that needs to be discussed
why is EVERYTHING being jumbled together.

HMMMMMMMMMM? take more showers????????


I am telling you, did you ever think she is ML to him in the shower to get him off track???????????????????


I have never once said divorce her

I said take care of your kids first


let her go to a place to get some help.
_________________________
Live Simply
Love Generously
Care Deeply
Speak Kindly
Leave the rest to God

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#1173630 - 08/23/07 02:10 PM Re: "Fetch me the witch's broom........" [Re: Lissie]
FaithfulH Offline
Member

Registered: 10/02/06
Posts: 1010
Loc: Dallas TX
You know I love you too, Lissie!

Quote:
I am telling you, did you ever think she is ML to him in the shower to get him off track???????????????????

I wish my W woulda tried to throw me off track!! Way off track! LOL

I think we all agree...FIB should help her...I also agree that his W's "healing" should (must?) come before the M/R restoration. I was reacting to FIB's sense that EVERYBODY was saying "file"..."don't trust her". As with anybody, he should trust her to the degree she has demonstrated her trustworthiness...and give her the grace to change. Are we OK, Lissie?
_________________________
Praising God Daily and Remaining "FaithfulH"
Me: 51
W: 51
D:22 S:21 & 19
Married: 29 Years
Bomb: 9/15/06
Reconciliation began: May '07
My Sitch

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#1173633 - 08/23/07 02:11 PM Re: "Fetch me the witch's broom........" [Re: frank_D]
BaseballAnnie Offline
Member

Registered: 06/06/06
Posts: 4434
No, Frank, I am not angry. Stunned and bumflommoxed maybe, but not angry.

I'm sorry that you have jumped to that conclusion, but your judgments about me serve no purpose because you don't know anything about me.

In fact, I am one of the few people who has said to fib from the beginning that this woman has serious problems that go way beyond this marriage and their relationship and she needs help. Help that must come before anything else.

My point has nothing to do with her wanting to be gone. My only point with my admittedly harsh comment was that fib seems to keep wanting to figure out "where she is" and "how to read her". So they continue to have these conversations where in one breath she proclaims to be telling the truth about one aspect, and yet at the same time concedes having previously lied. How can he derive any truth from her words or actions as messed up as she clearly is?

And I hesitate to point this out, but if one of the lies eventually turns out to involve this test stick, well...

It's simply all evidence that she doesn't know whether she's coming or going.

I am trying to urge him to quit trying to have a conversation with her and then analyze what if any truth is in it. None of that matters right now. Put her in a car and take her to a psychiatrist, get her some help.

It seems to me that takes priority over everything else.

We women on the board do have a very different take on these situations when we see them. One of the things we often discuss amongst ourselves off board as how the men seem to have different priorities and that resuming the physical relationship appears to cloud their judgment. It was the subject of an entire thread last week in fact.

So, no, Frank, no anger, just a different way of looking at things, that comes from a different perspective and some unique experiences, not the least of which was having a domestic relations practice for a number of years.
_________________________
"Go where your best prayers take you." -- Frederick Buechner

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#1173644 - 08/23/07 02:18 PM Re: "Fetch me the witch's broom........" [Re: faithisbelieving]
frank_D Offline
Member

Registered: 11/03/05
Posts: 4939
Loc: Ventura County, CA
Originally Posted By: faithisbelieving
Frank_d...will consider that.
Follow up and more rollercoaster. My W has been very depressed over the probability of losing our home. She has been admitting the mistakes she has made financially in the last year.
This is progress. She is taking some responsibility. We all know that is one of the required steps towards healing.

Quote:
My sister told me that the neighbors son picked up something in front of our trash bin after Monday's pickup and his mom I.D'd it as a pregnancy test stick....and told my sis.
You said 'in front of' the trash bin after the pickup? I don't know if the trash guys pick up the trash cans by hand, or do they have one of those trucks that 'grab' it and pick it up?

I've been in both situations and the guys who pick it up throw all kinds of stuff around from their trash cans. The machine is really good at dumping everything into it's collection hole on top of the truck but I see things get thrown around all the time.

But, let's say it was in front of your trash. What are the statistical odds that it came from your trash? I mean, think about it. Of all the things that might be in your trash at the time it was dumped, THIS item is 'found' in front of the house?

I'm having trouble with it. I really am. I wonder about the 'neighbor kid'. Why would he pick anything up he saw? And how messy is the street anyway? How close together are the houses and the trash pickup? For example, my neighbors and I put our trash next to each other.

FIB, do you know that she had her period? And I think it's safe to say that you would know intuitively if she is lying. you have that sense about you.

Quote:
She then spends more time apparently honestly denying it.
Then give her a break on this.

Quote:
She told me that in seeing me all those years..in front of the PC....in a messy room...that she became angrier and angrier and what happened was she lost the 'desire' (some of you may recall that lasat Dec/Jan she has said to me something about not being physically attracted to me or something like that). But..that is not what she describes now...she says I am attractive and she loves me but the DESIRE had gone away. She said we used to have it and ironically, she said 'she wants it back'. That..the reason for the PA's was that she 'missed that and wanted it back.'
I don't really need to say this, but I will anyway. THIS WHAT MY WIFE SAID ALSO.

She found 'OM' and got that 'fix' that she needed and thought all was better for her. HE would 'save her' from her awful life. BUT as we all know now, she really loved ME and that was where she needed to be. SHE had to get through the hurt, resentment and anger first and then she had to atone for the affair. A heavy load for one person to bear.
Quote:
...what she did destroyed TRUST. She cried..apologized....and left me confused (yes FaithfulH)...because, it sounds as if she wants to get the 'desire back', but, she hasn't been able to all this time. HOWEVER....she DOES appear to be letting go of the anger....does that help?
Yes!

Quote:
Me: You know XXX, I worked very hard this last year to change things....and be a better man....but that desire still needs to come out of you. It still behooves me to say that it WOULD take a tremendously courageous women to uphold the words in those cards you sent me.
Well said

Quote:
I had bad sleep..thinking of her two PA's. Felt angry still...violated....deceived..lied to...and now..it seemed like IT WAS MY FAULT AGAIN....that I HAD DRIVEN THE DESIRE FROM HER. When I asked last night what she thought HER contributions were, she, uh, couldn't think of any. I told her she held things in and was a poor communicator. I didn't want to just DUMP stuff on her.
Well you know you are right on both counts - with some modification.

1) You did not 'drive' the desire from her - you BECAME undesirable. Just like I became undesirable. You know now, like I do, that if we don't keep rekindling that attraction in a woman, it will fade out.

2) Here's the big item - She was a POOR communicator. That ties into the first item. A lot of marriages go through what yours and mine do but they don't get into this bad place we have lived through. Why? Because when one partner is withdrawing the other one kicks up the communications a notch and they pull the other one out of the rut they are in. BUT you, me and many other men / women on this board are in relationships with emotionally damaged people.

So, when one falters or withdraws, the other one can't or won't help pull them through the mess they are in. Your wife, like my wife, was one who couldn't help you. Eventually she ran away. IN running away she found out that what she wanted was right here all along. BUT I had to build up that confidence and ALLOW the trust to happen at its own pace.

Quote:
For the first time in a long time, my W got in the shower and after a few moments of holding me under the running water, she 'reached for me'. We were in there for an hour. I don't know what to say about this....I don't know if it was the right thing to do? as a man, I can honestly say that there has been a lot of stress. I was and always HAVE BEEN attracted to my W and in our 11 years together, 'never missed a beat'.
So Frank, ask yourself this question: Was it a pity f*ck? Was she just manipulating you with sex? Do you think that she believes that if she 'screws you' she can get you to do what she wants? Do you?

or

Do you think that she is seeing what she REALLY wants unraveling before her eyes? That to her, to feel close, connected, safe, is to be in YOUR arms, to share physical intimacy with YOU? Isn't that what she said she's been missing?

Quote:
I'm surrounded now by 'you must file' people....'you can never trust her people'.....'she's a liar' people.
Well, please count me out of that group. Put me into the 'do what your heart tells you is right' group.

Quote:
My W told me this morning on the way to dropping off S6 that her psychic:
-saw my job as 'working well'
-that on 2 separate occasions, saw the house being sold
-saw us splitting

Tell her that psychics 'see' the future based on what the person who they are consulting is feeling at the time. She 'sees' you splitting because that is the vibe that your W is giving her at the time.

The future is fluid and can be changed. Ask her if she wants to change it...

And yes, a miracle is coming. I can feel it.
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#1173650 - 08/23/07 02:19 PM Re: "Fetch me the witch's broom........" [Re: BaseballAnnie]
frank_D Offline
Member

Registered: 11/03/05
Posts: 4939
Loc: Ventura County, CA
Originally Posted By: BaseballAnnie
No, Frank, I am not angry. Stunned and bumflommoxed maybe, but not angry.

I'm sorry that you have jumped to that conclusion, but your judgments about me serve no purpose because you don't know anything about me.


Ok Annie, your post was very short and seemed like you were telling him to kick her out. Thanks for clarifying!

What the heck is "bumflommoxed"???


Edited by frank_D (08/23/07 02:21 PM)
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#1173654 - 08/23/07 02:22 PM Re: "Fetch me the witch's broom........" [Re: FaithfulH]
Lissie Offline
Member

Registered: 07/28/07
Posts: 4626
Quote:
Are we OK, Lissie?


Ofcourse Faithful
_________________________
Live Simply
Love Generously
Care Deeply
Speak Kindly
Leave the rest to God

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#1173658 - 08/23/07 02:25 PM Re: "Fetch me the witch's broom........" [Re: frank_D]
FaithfulH Offline
Member

Registered: 10/02/06
Posts: 1010
Loc: Dallas TX
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
My W told me this morning on the way to dropping off S6 that her psychic:
-saw my job as 'working well'
-that on 2 separate occasions, saw the house being sold
-saw us splitting


Tell her that psychics 'see' the future based on what the person who they are consulting is feeling at the time. She 'sees' you splitting because that is the vibe that your W is giving her at the time.


....and please tell her that psychics fall into 1 of 2 categories...they are quacks with no ability to do anything other than make things up...or they tap into a "dark" power. Both types are scary...and neither of them is connected to what God would have happen in your life.

I'm with Frank_D on the miracle thing happenin'!
_________________________
Praising God Daily and Remaining "FaithfulH"
Me: 51
W: 51
D:22 S:21 & 19
Married: 29 Years
Bomb: 9/15/06
Reconciliation began: May '07
My Sitch

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#1173661 - 08/23/07 02:26 PM Re: "Fetch me the witch's broom........" [Re: FaithfulH]
FaithfulH Offline
Member

Registered: 10/02/06
Posts: 1010
Loc: Dallas TX
Quote:
What the heck is "bumflommoxed"???


I'm thinkin' it might describe what happened in the shower...
_________________________
Praising God Daily and Remaining "FaithfulH"
Me: 51
W: 51
D:22 S:21 & 19
Married: 29 Years
Bomb: 9/15/06
Reconciliation began: May '07
My Sitch

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#1173674 - 08/23/07 02:29 PM Re: "Fetch me the witch's broom........" [Re: frank_D]
BaseballAnnie Offline
Member

Registered: 06/06/06
Posts: 4434
I am short and concise.

That's typically the way I write.

Despite urban legend, lawyers don't get paid by the word.

I don't advocate his kicking her out.

Nor do I think he should trust her because I do not think she is trustworthy.

I think she is sick and needs help.

"Bumflommoxed"? hmmm, how should I say?

Extraordinarily perplexed maybe?
_________________________
"Go where your best prayers take you." -- Frederick Buechner

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#1173680 - 08/23/07 02:31 PM Re: "Fetch me the witch's broom........" [Re: frank_D]
Jeff223 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/03/06
Posts: 1841
Loc: Alabama
frank-d:

Yes, it was a powerful post frank and I hope you are correct and I am wrong. You know I have pulled for FIB a long time now. You and I have the same keychain. I consider FIB a friend and I admit that I am in the trap of not wanting to see my friend hurt any longer. I honestly feel it is time for him to let go and get out of the drama.

IMHO, he cannot continue to carry the full load without breaking - supporter of a disturbed W who refuses to get help, sole parent to two young kids, sole provider for the family. He is in financial difficulties, he sounds strong but broken. He is a surgeon - he cannot afford to slip b/c of emotions.

He is tearing himself up. And so is his W.

Each stitch is different. I wish there was one answer - one path to take that would save all our marriages. That is why I came here, for that answer and hope. But that answer is not possible for all of us. In fact, for 95% of us here the answer will be divorce no matter what we do.

That statistic is sad but true. I hate it, and I wish otherwise, but it is true nevertheless.

I followed your stitch, printed it out, read it again and again. I saw so many similarities with my stitch - even more with FIB. You gave me such hope - I quoted you to FIB many times.

You had some things going for you that I do not - that FIB does not. Number one was your IC. I can't get my W into IC and neither can FIB (now FIB's W may go - I can only hope that is true and will be for the best). Your IC was huge. I may be wrong but from your words I think you would have lost your W had it not been for your IC.

I know you experieced the pain of a PA and it involved a sexual preditor as well. Pain all around. But your W stopped - FIB's W did not. Will she? I don't know and I see nothing to say she will.

We all struggle with when is enough enough. I don't know that answer for FIB. But I do know that his life is coming apart. Can he "help" his W out of the tunnel? I hope you are right frank that he can. But being the "strength she needs" as you put it may be too much to ask or expect. Like the airplane oxygen system - you cannot help those you love until you help yourself first. I don't want FIB to feel a failure if such strength is not possible.

Even Maximus dies in the end. Was he a failure? I think not.

Strength and Honor.
_________________________
Jeff

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