We're over 100 again, time for a new thread. For all you newcomers to my sitch, my H is now posting on the BB as well - under the name Ceberon and frequently comments here. He likes to give feedback on what people say and think as well as what techniques work and don't work so it's quite the learning experience for all involved surely.

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Here's the history:
Things happened so quickly - is there any hope?
Can we be friends?
Waiting for Forgiveness.
Still Waiting for Forgiveness
Forgiveness Received! (Divorce Started)
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Quick summary:
Me: 25, BS in Computer Science, currently Software Engineer
H : 25, BS in Computer Science, currently Software Engineer
Married : 2.5 years
Engaged : 1.5 years
Dated : 1 year
B. Friends: 1 year
No kids.
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green = significant events in sitch
purple = significant changes in sitch
blue = things that worked
orange = things that didn't work

1/2001 to 1/2002 : I had an on again/off again EA with an internet friend - flew out to see him twice. Didn't officially end the A until 11/2002 but emotionally ended 1/2002.
11/21/2002 : H told me he didn't like who he was, wanted to change, didn't know if he wanted to be with me blah blah blah blah.
11/25/2002 : Gave H ultimatum to either work things out with me or without me.
11/25/2002 : H left and went to OW's house (EA, pretty sure not a PA?)
11/25/2002 : OW (ex-friend) told H about my A.
12/02/2002 : H told me he wants a D.
12/09/2002 : H came over to the house to discuss R and D.
12/17/2002 : First joint C session - H was open but didn't want to work on R.
12/18/2002 : H sends email detailing how he would like to split up assets.
12/20/2002 : I tell H I'm not ready to make financial decisions - go away for Christmas and go dark for 2 weeks. H is bothered by my lack of contact.
01/03/2003 : Tell H I will speak with him about splitting assets.
01/05/2003 : H comes to house to discuss splitting assets (I backslide a little).
01/07/2003 : Second joint C session - H still doesn't want to work on R - decide to do individual C sessions.
01/08/2003 : Begin letting H know my feelings (2 emails, 2 letters, sent a pizza to his work) on advice of C.
(aka. Experiment A)
01/12/2003 : Stop Experiment A, wait for results - no response.
01/14/2003 : Session with C, she suggests I should continue pursuing, I suggest that I stop - she agrees after I explain.
01/15/2003 : I go against my own advice and ask H out sometime, he rejects the offer.
01/16/2003 : Have serious D talk with H, I agree to split assets and sign 6-month waiver for D, finally letting go of all ties and control over the sitch.
01/20/2003 : Send lawyer financial info and agreement.
01/21/2003 : H tells me he now wants to change the agreement and not give me everything, wants the house. We have a huge discussion which he turns to R talk and the truth comes out that he can never forgive me for what I did and that is the heart of the issue.
01/27/2003 : Fire my lawyer.
01/29/2003 : Meet with H and FIL to discuss financial aspects. Have long talk with H, H can forgive but not forget.
01/31/2003 : Meet with mortgage guy and start refinancing house.
02/05/2003 : H forgives me.
02/07/2003 : H goes to D lawyer and starts paperwork.
02/08/2003 : H begins to read BB.
02/10/2003 : H begins to post on BB.
02/10/2003 : H invites me to dinner/bar and a movie and we go out!
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Three huge baby steps - H can open up to me now, H forgave me and we did something together.

So here we are folks. H and I went out last night and had a good time. No pressure from me and no pressure going to come from me. We're on H's schedule now and taking things day-by-day. What does it mean that we went out last night? Don't know, didn't ask. What is his intent? Don't know, didn't ask. (Don't think he quite knows yet either anyway.) Is the D still on? As far as I know, should be getting the paperwork sometime this week? What's next? Don't know, didn't ask.

Taking everything at face value these days, trying not to get my expectations too high and just enjoying my H's company and conversation.

#1

Quote:

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orange = things that didn't work

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Quote:

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H : 25, BS in Computer Science, currently Software Engineer

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On behalf of your husband I would like to request a retraction of this slip in colour!

Hey colorful one, glad to see things are going well. You should be feeling those colors today. I am so glad to hear about the baby steps.

Silently celebrate them. Keep up the good work and hopefully more "colorful" baby steps will happen.

I think that it's great that you two are working things out. Congrats! Keep up the good work.

I realized that I've been really holding back today on what to say because of the changes that occured yesterday and knowing my H reads this. I promised to make an effort to be 100% honest on here and continue journaling with my feelings no matter what they were, so here goes.

I have to say that I'm not as excited today as I should be about last night. I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that I'm so tired that I'm kinda grumpy and it puts me in a poor perspective to deal with any issues. Another reason is that I think it's very hard to balance "keeping low expectations" and acting "as if".

I haven't spelled it out exactly but I've been trying really hard to act "as if" lately. It's a hard concept to get across to myself but I've been noticing more and more places where I can do it. Last night took a lot of effort on my part, a lot, and I think it really drained me on top of not sleeping all night.

So here we go - traversing through the emotions of the evening.

We'll start with the phone call to go out and do something. I was shocked, ecstatic, I ran around the house getting ready, my heart was beating like crazy. I wanted to call everyone I knew to tell them, I wanted to shout it from the rooftops that I was going out with my H. I felt like a teenager going out on a date again. For the first time in a long time, my stomach was filled with butterflies of excitement/nervousness instead of slugs of apprehension/nervousness.

Next we move to my H arriving. I was excited to see him and started talking amicably with him, probably almost babbling because I was so happy. I tried to remind myself continuously to be happy (that wasn't hard) but not fake... and not to get my expectations too high for the evening. We started out on the evening and I started to relax and feel good about being with him.

Now we get to the bar to get some food and we sit down. This is probably when things started to get uncomfortable. I notice he is still not wearing his wedding ring - didn't expect him to be but still a little jab in the heart, y'know. It was a little hard to talk because of the music but not impossible. I didn't know whether to look at him or if that would make him feel uncomfortable so I ended up watching golf on the TV alot and looking out the window. There were a lot of awkward pauses. We never used to have awkward pauses. At this point I started to think to myself: I just want to get out of here and go home, I want to get away, I just want him to leave. Rather shocking thought for someone who has been working towards this for 3 months.

Then we were on our way to the movie. The conversation paused a little and I commented on the awkward pauses for the first time - H turned on the radio and mentioned that he forgot I had a good sound system. I noticed that H knew the words to most of the R&B songs and in the bar he had started dancing a little to them. (Something new from his clubbing with OW and her friends - ouch - but I sucked it up and said nothing.)

That's when he decided to tell me a story. Boy he really could have picked a different story. It was all about how he danced with this 35 year old lady (Strike 1) the last time he was out at the club (last weekend with OW and her friends - Strike 2) and he thought she was going to ask him out (Strike 3 he's out?... oh no, there's more..) but she told him that he should meet her daughter instead! (Strike 4, ejected from the ballpark.) I guess he thought it was a funny story. Well he commented on me not finding it funny and asked what upset me. I asked him if he really wanted to talk about that right now. He asked me if it was because he was out somewhere without me - I said "Yep". We discussed the rest of the reasons briefly on the way into the theater.

And then we're at the movie. We sit down and it's ok but just uncomfortable. At least he wasn't shy about sharing the arm rest with me and our arms touched the entire movie, well mostly... I think he pulled away now and then but that was all. I saw the movie but to be honest I can't remember it all that well, my stomach was upset and I was very preoccupied. We leave the movie and the car ride home was ok.

We pull into the drive and he'd parked his car in the garage (might as well, he's still got an opener and it's cold outside these days) so when he opened the door to the garage, it was like when we used to go out all the time and then come home... his car would be in the garage and we would go inside etc etc. Just a strong memory as I saw his car there. At this point I know it's so important what I say and do - can't be any pressure. You heard the rest of this story in the other post.

So after I get inside I'm just well... melancholy would be a good word perhaps? I'm not terribly excited and I'm not terribly disappointed. I think a tear or two escaped but more absentmindedly. (I guess that's part of detachment.) I just felt plain good about having an evening with him. This is why I thought I would sleep well, I should know myself better - I spent all night daydreaming and not getting any sleep. Maybe part of the problem was trying to keep my expectations low too? I'm not sure.

So here's the kicker and hon, I don't want you to read too much into this because I think this is a really normal reaction... but.... well, today when I realized that I might attain the thing I've been working towards for the past 3 months, I started to have doubts! Yeesh. I know my feelings are there but I can't help that internal dialogue that plays inside my head - are you sure this is what you want... you just might end up getting what you wished for... etc etc.

So I'm in a rather blah, poor mood today. I'm upset with myself because my usual optomistic self is turning into a rather pessimistic self with these low expectations. I feel like I'm doing more than preparing myself for the worst, I'm expecting it now. I'm preparing myself for him to tell me what I don't want to hear! What the heck! This isn't me... I really hope it's just because I'm tired. How do you balance this "low expectation" and "acting as if" thing!?

I admire the strength my H showed last night by not saying what was on his mind. It was wise, emotions are too fresh. Patience grasshopper. I also know that it must be so hard to leave every time he does. I admire him for having the strength to do that too - it was the right thing to go and the right thing to not come inside. Neither of us are completely ready for that.

Wow, long post, sorry guys! I just really had to get that all out.

Quoting calystra:

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Now we get to the bar to get some food and we sit down. This is probably when things started to get uncomfortable. I notice he is still not wearing his wedding ring - didn't expect him to be but still a little jab in the heart, y'know. It was a little hard to talk because of the music but not impossible. I didn't know whether to look at him or if that would make him feel uncomfortable so I ended up watching golf on the TV alot and looking out the window. There were a lot of awkward pauses. We never used to have awkward pauses. At this point I started to think to myself: I just want to get out of here and go home, I want to get away, I just want him to leave. Rather shocking thought for someone who has been working towards this for 3 months.

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The seats in the bar were a little far apart, and I felt like I had to either be leaning back (where you couldn't hear well), or leaning forward (oddly uncomfortable). Not that it makes a large difference, but I felt it didn't help the situation

I know when we used to chat, we'd chat randomly about the things that had happened recently to us, or about what we wanted to do in the future, etc. Talking about things happening recently isn't much of a fun topic, and the future is obviously difficult to talk about. It's hard having a normal chatting conversation when you're constantly cancelling out the words that you're almost saying.

Quoting calystra:

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Then we were on our way to the movie. The conversation paused a little and I commented on the awkward pauses for the first time - H turned on the radio and mentioned that he forgot I had a good sound system. I noticed that H knew the words to most of the R&B songs and in the bar he had started dancing a little to them. (Something new from his clubbing with OW and her friends - ouch - but I sucked it up and said nothing.)

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I realized after a few glances at me that I was dancing to the songs, didn't think about it at first. Truthfully, I decided I shouldn't bother hiding it, not certain if that was a good idea or not. I guess I felt that if she was being truthful with me now, I probably should to, which includes the fact that I have been out to a lot of clubs, learning to dance, etc. I suppose I figure I have two choices:

1. I hide everything that's happened to me in the last few months, never tell her any stories, etc. In that case she most likely will be bothered and will not be able to ever relax with me because she will not know what went on during those months. Personally, I couldn't come to grips with the A she had for a long time since I didn't know what had happened (even though I suspected she told the truth when she said she didn't talk to him anymore). Soon as I heard the truth, I was able to start dealing with the issues.

2. I don't hide or mask the fact that I've been away. I don't want to rub it in, but I want her to know what life has been like I suppose. I have learned quite a lot about myself, and I would rather not lose the lessons I gained by hiding what happened. Plus, I would eventually like to have her forgiveness for leaving, but that would require her knowing what to forgive me for.

Quoting calystra:

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That's when he decided to tell me a story. Boy he really could have picked a different story. It was all about how he danced with this 35 year old lady (Strike 1) the last time he was out at the club (last weekend with OW and her friends - Strike 2) and he thought she was going to ask him out (Strike 3 he's out?... oh no, there's more..) but she told him that he should meet her daughter instead! (Strike 4, ejected from the ballpark.) I guess he thought it was a funny story. Well he commented on me not finding it funny and asked what upset me. I asked him if he really wanted to talk about that right now. He asked me if it was because he was out somewhere without me - I said "Yep". We discussed the rest of the reasons briefly on the way into the theater.

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Well, few things here (this is all related to the above comments from myself). First, I did mention I danced with the lady. I picked this story simply because it was a 38 year old lady (I'm 25, plus not even slightly interested in her), and it was humerous. I thought she was going to ask me out, and I told her my reaction was something like "uh oh". She did tell me I should meet her daughter which I just found funny, since I have always had a habit of having parents hand off their daughters to me as I was growing up (Calystra has heard stories about this before).

Anyway, I said it for a few reasons.

1. We were being too quiet, and I had not said much.

2. I thought she may be upset if I didn't mention anything about what I'd been doing for so long, I didn't want to be hiding things if I could help it.

3. I thought it was a fairly innocent story from my point of view, and may even sound funny. I was really hoping that if she had come to terms with the fact that I was out with strangers (not just OW), that she may be able to talk to me in the future about things.

4. It was a bit of a test, putting my toe in the water so to say. I know she had said she was bitter about me leaving before, I had to know if I could talk to her about things without her getting upset about it.

I suppose that's the major points.

Quoting calystra:

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So here's the kicker and hon, I don't want you to read too much into this because I think this is a really normal reaction... but.... well, today when I realized that I might attain the thing I've been working towards for the past 3 months, I started to have doubts! Yeesh. I know my feelings are there but I can't help that internal dialogue that plays inside my head - are you sure this is what you want... you just might end up getting what you wished for... etc etc.

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That's one thing I've been wondering about a lot. She has told me she would be here no matter what, but I really find it hard to believe. And (this is not a threat, but I'm trying to be open) I'm incredibly frightened of the idea of even letting a thought of not having the D creep into my head, because if on the chance I decided to try to work on it, and she decided she didn't want to anymore, I don't know what I would do. I guess I put up walls to leave, I've let them down a bit now that I've read the stuff posted on the site, but it really frightens me to think that by opening myself up, I'm really putting myself at risk.

Long post, sorry folks.

IMHO, I think this is really great the way the two of you are communicating here! I sure wish my W would come on here and post with me. Maybe then we could understand each other better.

I think you two are doing great. If you continue to be this open, and honest... and not get upset, but be understanding.. I think you will make it.

Ceberon - just wanted to give you my perspective. Now that my h is finally starting to turn around a little - I find myself plagued by doubts also - because I don't want to be vulnerable to that pain, and because I don't want him back a little, I want him back all the way. I can't settle for what we had before, now that I know he wasn't really there with me. I need more, just at a time when he is struggling to give me anything. Sounds to me like both you and Calystra are suffering from the same fear of vulnerability.
Ellie

Wow, this is so cool

Calystra, should we try to help you guess what your H is thinking, or just wait for him to tell us himself??? (I joke because I notice that guessing how our s's and each other's s's are feeling is a favourite pasttime on the bb)

Seriously though, I am watching along with great admiration for both of you, and cheering silently!

rjj