I loved RCR's post, and desperatley trying to think of a place to put it in the resources. I for one, do not want it lost. The resources are full of the bits and pieces, of understanding the depression, how to deal with our MLCer, detaching and general advice for handling Denial, through Replay, and depression/withdrawl etc. but has lack of resources for handling reconnection and reconcilliation.
This may well be on the Piecing forum, I have never ventured over there, not yet at that stage, and as with many others, wish to remain here where bonds have been made over the past few years
Originally Posted By: reply from butterflymom
Never posted to you before, but there is SO LITTLE out there about reconnection or reconciliation that some of RCR's posts do need to be preserved. I was reading over some advice that she gave me several months ago when my H came back. Looking back now I can see that she was EXACTLY RIGHT. It's spooky actually.
I can find it and link to it here if you would like to save some of these gems. I wish I had had it before the emotions of him saying he wanted to come home took over and I dove head first into something he wasn't ready for. It can help many I think.
Before we start with the serious stuff, a song dedicated to us all, it is quite ironic that this thread was sparked off by Lissettes thread, and her connection with this song.
GLORIA GAYNOR LYRICS
"I Will Survive"
At first I was afraid I was petrified Kept thinking I could never live without you by my side But then I spent so many nights thinking how you did me wrong And I grew strong And I learned how to get along and so you're back from outer space I just walked in to find you here with that sad look upon your face I should have changed that stupid lock I should have made you leave your key If I had known for just one second you'd be back to bother me
Go on now go walk out the door just turn around now 'cause you're not welcome anymore weren't you the one who tried to hurt me with goodbye Did you think I'd crumble Did you think I'd lay down and die Oh no, not I I will survive Oh as long as i know how to love I know I will stay alive I've got all my life to live I've got all my love to give and I'll survive I will survive (hey-hey)
It took all the strength I had not to fall apart kept trying hard to mend the pieces of my broken heart and I spent oh so many nights just feeling sorry for myself I used to cry But now I hold my head up high and you see me somebody new I'm not that chained up little person still in love with you and so you felt like dropping in and just expect me to be free and now I'm saving all my loving for someone who's loving me
Go on now go walk out the door just turn around now 'cause you're not welcome anymore weren't you the one who tried to break me with goodbye Did you think I'd crumble Did you think I'd lay down and die Oh no, not I I will survive Oh as long as i know how to love I know I will stay alive I've got all my life to live I've got all my love to give and I'll survive I will survive
I didn;t hear a single "I'm sorry" in his comments to you. What I heard from him was, "this is your one chance to have me back, take the weekend to think about it" Doesn't sound like he is remorseful or repentant to me for what he has done to you and your kids, sounds to me like he is very arrogant in his comments to you.
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I just feel in my gut, it is not real.
Braveheart said it...and as for it being real or not
It is both. This is how a return starts. Braveheart mentioned not until he comes crawling back.
That sounds a superiority issue...saying, feeling or showing I'm sorry is not something that must be grovelled. Perhaps it is thought that grovelling is modesty and humble. No, it shows weakness. I wanted Sweetheart to walk back in with his head held high--nose at the regular angle though. My equal, not above or below. It is when they fee equal that they are completely through. I do want to point out though...Braveheart is on target--I'm not disagreeing with your views of Puffy and his present motivations.
...And returns (or attempts) are BEFORE the end. Most do not return (that is start or try) as healthy people...returners are broken--often the grovellers Braveheart wants to see. I don't like giving shoulds...but here goes anyway. What we should want (eventually) is a strong and healthy partner with self-worth and confidence. Sometimes they need to return before that and it is our beliefe and confidence in them that can guide them to it for themselves...so said my counselor.
You no longer feel in love with Puffy. I love you but I'm not in love with you is the MLCer mantra. We've all heard some version of it--most the exact version. And what adivce and comments are given here about that...?
They do love you, but are confused, their love is lost/ buried... They are confusing in-love with in-fatuation Love doesn't just up and fly away like that
Love is a choice Love is a decision Love is an action Love is an emotion/feeling Many say Love is not one of these but another...I say it is all of these things....and though it cannot be fabricated (which is making false) it can be created--realized. To real-ize is to make real.
What do you want? Do you know? What I feel you do know is that Puffy is not trustworthy right now. I like saying yet...but I think you are doubtful that he may ever be...and belief creates reality. If you were to get back together now, but you doubt him (trust takes time, but Faith that it WILL COME can be present in the now) he will sense your doubt and manifest your fears...and not become trustworthy.
You do not feel in-love? Do you want to feel in love with Puffy? Do you wish you felt in love with Puffy? A yes answer to either of those last questions is evidence you need to give him a chance...someday. (to me)
I personally believe parents who are married to each other and together are better for the children. There are studies to support all hypotheses of course...divorce isn't harmful, divorce is harmful. Some have shown that a poor marriage is better than divorce.
But that doesn't mean you should martyr yourself. Find your happiness and do with your life what is meant to be for your life. Because that is also what is meant to be for your children's childhood.
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I know that I am supposed to forgive it all, and I am trying. I swear I am trying to forgive.
Are you confusing Forgiveness with Reconciliation? Reconciliation is NOT a requirement of Forgiveness. Yes, Forgiveness is important. And I think you are further along the process than you know. It doesn't mean you remain married to Puffy. It means you can, there are no have to's.
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So, If i find out that Puffy is wanting to come back...b/c he is sorry.
What do I do?
Since you do not believe this, you feelings are based on something else. Keep your mind open to change. You may have a change if you truly feel his motivations are authentic.
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Fake it until you make it." I knew these words would come back to haunt us. Take your time.
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If he truly wants to come home, what would be wrong with you setting the boundaries around his return? That it wouldn't be immediate and that it would be when and if you are able to rekindle the feelings for him?
Liss...you need to do what is right for you. I think we are all pretty unanimous here that Puffy isn't done baking. But when he is...then what? And think about this, maybe part of the process involves a more active spousal role for you. I truly believe marriages can be made more beautiful--beyond out imaginings--after this crisis. They CAN be...not that they WILL be. Are you willing to give that a chance? I'm not trying to tell you what to do...simply place the ideas out there.
Puffy may very well refuse any form of boundaries or counseling if you suggest those. And as for letting him back home...NOOOOOO. But maybe open some communication with him about this. "I am not in love with you. But I wish I were. I want to Forgive you and I need to be able to do that regardless of your actions. But to begin to feel in love I need more. I need you to show me that you have and will change and that you are aware of the pain we have felt. How do you feel about our pain? Does it hurt you too? Are you willing to help us heal that pain? I want to Forgive you and Love you, but I also want you to Forgive and love your Self. Right now you have no Self Love. [I'm trying to avoid the actual words sorry, apologize, remorse so as to be subtle]. I cannot let you come home. I want to trust you and do not. Are you willing to show me you are trustworthy, or that you will work to become trustworthy? What do you plan to do to show this? If you want to be my husband and lover, some things need to happen first. [here come the boundaries] The OW must be gone--no contact of any sort. Counseling is a requirement--family, couples...
I will not give you a guarantee that I will fall in love with you again. But I will promise that I want to. I want a beautiful marriage for US and for M&M. But I will not consider this if unless we work together to heal our wounds and become equal partners."
Either way...I think you need to see a counselor or Psychologist...if for nothing other than to get through that crying you fear would be eternal.
Choose your life with confidence and go forward boldly.
Just wondering whether true reconnection can take place while MLCer is still with OW/living with her. My husband is nowhere near this stage, if ever, but was curious. It's just that i thought that i had read somwhere that true reconnection cannot take place until OW is out of the picture, anything else is just replay at is fullest.
Nicky
Me 34 H 33 D3 together 10 years married 2 years Bomb 22/8/06 (I feel empty) OW involved
Nicky I have read the same but it seems from reading here that some men can reconnect while with OW. But I think that they have realized the OW was not the answer and that is when the reconnection can begin with the LBS.
Any one have any insight on this??
m24 yrs h 50 me 47 s 21 s 17 left 5-30-06, and 12-4-06 still gone.............
True reconnection cannot begin until they are completely out of all of the stages. Otherwise they are just touch and gos. The post on reconnection in mlc resources explains that part quite well. I have also read on another forum that reconnection is the only way out of depression. So I think they have to at least be in the depression/ withdrawal stage.
I seen on the board that many of the spouses that return go home straight from leaving OW? I am confused. So is it possible that they can still be with OW and go through Depression and withdrawl and suddenly into acceptance?
Nicky
Me 34 H 33 D3 together 10 years married 2 years Bomb 22/8/06 (I feel empty) OW involved
I think it is possible for them to go through depression while still with ow. I have seen it twice with my h that he seemed to be reconnecting but I had not seen depression in him. I fell for it both times. When his depression started to come through he increased his self medication and therefore went back into replay although I do not think he ever left it. It is confusing but I do think when/if it happens you will know the difference.
Nicky I have read the same but it seems from reading here that some men can reconnect while with OW. But I think that they have realized the OW was not the answer and that is when the reconnection can begin with the LBS.
Any one have any insight on this??
I think my situation fits into this. My H has been reconnecting BIG time with all three kids while living with OW. He waits until about midnight to converse with them via text messages and at times actual talking on the phone BUT the actual talking on the phone almost always takes place during work hours where it is just him in his office.
The texting occurs really late at night. I think the MLCers are always depressed in MLC.
The other change: Instead of saying "I love you" and using individual names, he now says, I love all of you...... which my son said that includes me.
You can read up on my sitch which is titled, Steelers Thread IX for more insight.
The Bomb: 08/05 H moves out: 06/2006 H moves back: 01/07 & Out again: 01/07 H moves back: 03/08 & Out again: 04/08 H moves back: 05/09 & Out again: 07/09 Divorced 08-12 Kids: 22, 20, 19
I truly believe from keeping up with your sitch and going back and reading past threads that your H is reconnecting.
How come on other "places" they call this cake eating???
Do you think that there is a time that this area is so grey that it might be misinterpreted as cake eating? I sure hope I don't open a can of worms with this question but I messed up in Jan. I was told he was cake eating and he was not he was really trying to reconnect and I didn't give him the warm safe place he was looking for at that time.
but then that turns into a touch and go???
so a lot of this is how you interpret things I think
m24 yrs h 50 me 47 s 21 s 17 left 5-30-06, and 12-4-06 still gone.............
True reconnection cannot begin until they are completely out of all of the stages. Otherwise they are just touch and gos. The post on reconnection in mlc resources explains that part quite well. I have also read on another forum that reconnection is the only way out of depression. So I think they have to at least be in the depression/ withdrawal stage.
I totally disagree with this because my H has been reconnecting for months now. THey do not appear to be touch and go's as he has been very consistant.
The Bomb: 08/05 H moves out: 06/2006 H moves back: 01/07 & Out again: 01/07 H moves back: 03/08 & Out again: 04/08 H moves back: 05/09 & Out again: 07/09 Divorced 08-12 Kids: 22, 20, 19
I truly believe from keeping up with your sitch and going back and reading past threads that your H is reconnecting.
How come on other "places" they call this cake eating???
Do you think that there is a time that this area is so grey that it might be misinterpreted as cake eating? I sure hope I don't open a can of worms with this question but I messed up in Jan. I was told he was cake eating and he was not he was really trying to reconnect and I didn't give him the warm safe place he was looking for at that time.
but then that turns into a touch and go???
so a lot of this is how you interpret things I think
I discussed this with my pastors and here is the thing: It is all about how you decide to handle it and what you want.
TO stand and from a Biblical perspective, we are to show kindness, never complaioning, we want them to see what a loving home they have/had and to make it as comfortable as possible. Why? Because in the end, they will feel comfortable and know that this is where they ultimately belong.
The Bomb: 08/05 H moves out: 06/2006 H moves back: 01/07 & Out again: 01/07 H moves back: 03/08 & Out again: 04/08 H moves back: 05/09 & Out again: 07/09 Divorced 08-12 Kids: 22, 20, 19
True reconnection cannot begin until they are completely out of all of the stages. Otherwise they are just touch and gos. The post on reconnection in mlc resources explains that part quite well. I have also read on another forum that reconnection is the only way out of depression. So I think they have to at least be in the depression/ withdrawal stage.
I neither agree or disagree with this...because there are so many variables...it is true in some cases, and perhaps it is true in most cases...but is anything true in all cases?
What do we mean by Reconnection. Note that Reconnection and Reconciliaiton are different things. Reconnection preceded Reconciliaiton.
How do we define REAL or TRUE? If the MLCer is REALly intending to reconnect, is it real...thus is it intentions or motivations that determine REAL?
What constitutes REALly trying? I believe that Sweetheart was REALly trying to reconnect when he came home most (not all) of those times. But he has also admitted it wasn't real and he knew it. Why was it not real? Because he still wanted a relationship with the OW AND was unwilling to give that up. But at the same...he was REALly reconnecting. We were building things together...that foundation for a later return. So those reconnections were fruitful, they were necessary, they were part of the process and they helped him to progress.
What is the expectation of Reconnection? Is it that it leads directly to Reconciliation...Reconnection may take time, but they are consecutive steps in the MLC Process?
Well, we could have different names for Early Reconnections... but I think those would prove futile. LBSs with their Hopes and expectations integrating and flying high would label them Reconnection rather than Early or Pre...And who's to say which is which anyway...there are the cases where Early is the final Reconnection.
What it distills down to is that Reconnection, like all other things in MLC, is a staggered process. The line graph goes up an down many times...hopefully in a general upward pattern. Each new reconnection may (or may not) be a little more connecting than the last.
Some of the confusion may simply come down to how each term is defined...I need to check out the resources Reconnection post again.
What then are touch-and-goes? Small reconnections? Mini tunnel vacations/breaths of air? I think touch-and-goes indicate soemthing brief...whereas Reconnections are longer attempts...they give the LBS time to show the safety, add even more to the foundation...and perhaps if the LBS responds well what would have been a touch-and-go becomes longer...a Reconnection...but the tough part is it is not THE Reconnection...that one you are all looking for and labeing as REAL.
Maybe rather than putting Reconnection out there as something for near the end, realize that it is part of MLC and part of the cycle. In Replay, we expect cycling, we expect touch-and-goes, we expect spew, hatred, flirting, OWs, niceness, nastiness...
If you DB well, why not also add Reconnection as a possibility to the mix. While recognizing that if your are early in this crisis, it is not that ending Reconnection...the MLCer may move home and leave again--a few weeks or months later realizing and admitting (or not) that this is about him and the LBS is not to blame. He returned because the LBS changed...thus now things will work, and they didn't. But was that a touch-and-go? No...it lasted too long.
Reconnection may often begin when the OW is still involved...he needs direct comparisons becuase he's not happy with her. It may start as touch-and-goes and get bigger. But remmeber how OWs are...she sucks him back.
Is the final Reconncection a part of Reconciliation rather than a predecessor? You are in counseling and learning to love again...isn't that reconnecting?
But then, that is not what is being discussed here...that is something that is during/after a return. That is not something an LBS looks for because it is fully present and obvious.
I think it comes down to what you want it to be...defintiion wise, not interpeting your MLCer-wise. What are your motivations? Why is Reconnection important...why is it importnat that it be only possible when the OW is gone and he is through Depression...or why is it important that it be possible without those things?
I have some different ideas when it comes to this! I know RCR, suprise, suprise, suprise! LOL First, I think you need to know if your WAS, is in MLC or not. In reading many of these stories here, I am of the Opinion that many are not dealing with MLC, but a WAS. What constitutes an MLC? I guess if I knew the true answer to that many of you would be willing to pay me a lot of money! LOL I certainly think many things are definate MLC tendencies. OP, Youthfull actions, changes in what was everyday routine and thought. Something triggers these changes within a person, you just don;t wake up one morning and start acting completely different. Another thing that I think makes up an MLC personnality is the fact that the MLCer will typically not just leave and not look back, many will keep a tight reign on the spouse that is left until they feel completely safe in plunging into the tunnel. Once there in deep do you see a lot of the meaness, uncaring, and unfeeling. I don't think you see it right off the bat. Once the MLCer initally leaves they will do all the convincing of how you don't need them, how this isn't so bad, etc. Once they are in full blown replay, they really start the disconection, spewing, things of that nature. Like any hot fire, it will eventually burn out, once it does, the MLCer will mourn the loss of the OP. I think at this time once depresson sets in do you see the thinking of the MLCer change. I think they start doing the whatif game about the LBS. Whatif I gave it a chance, whatif I had tried, whatif I hadn;t done what I did etc. I think its a this time the MLCer might try to reconnect. I think many of them are simply too ashamed or too proud to admit that they did any wrong, thus they do not try to reconnect. I have a serious question to ask about reconnection; Do you really want them back? What requirements would have to be met to open yourself to a reconnection/reconsilliation? Would you take them back without them showing remorse or apologizing for thier actions? If your answer is yes, I think that you are setting yourself up for hurt later on down the road. I know many here disagree with this statement, but I am of the opinion that if someone put you though utter and total hell for a number of years and came back without any regret, apologies, or remorse, you are dealing with someone who has no respect for you and is just settling for you until someone else comes along. I know that my remarks are going to have a lot of opinions, and I welcome them, just don;t take my comments personally.
Hmmm.........I think it is a little different for each WAS.
I discovered H's A one year after it had started via the phone bill because I would take care of the bills each month.
His moods began to change big time approx. two months after this discovery and he remained in the spewing or whatever you want to call it up until the time he left which was June '06.
The spewing, meanness, or whatever you want to call it slowly dissipated and he moved home Jan. '07 but he really was not ready for such a move due to court, etc. and it pushed him back to OW where he is still living.
But since then, the changes have been remarkable with regard to how much time he comes over, how nice he is, how much reconnection he is doing with the kids, etc.
And of course, he continues to pay the bulk of the bills and even offers to pay for some major car repairs of mine.
It's been remarkable but I think my faith in God has played the biggest role in all of this because if it were not what I know or how I have handled it, we would have been divorced long ago when all of this started. And he is also beginning to rely on God again based on some things he has said.
Each situation is different but yet alike in many ways.
Last edited by steelersfan; 08/13/0712:23 AM.
The Bomb: 08/05 H moves out: 06/2006 H moves back: 01/07 & Out again: 01/07 H moves back: 03/08 & Out again: 04/08 H moves back: 05/09 & Out again: 07/09 Divorced 08-12 Kids: 22, 20, 19
I think that sometimes the WAS or MLCer or whatever you want to say indeed does not respect the LBS. That's my sitch, anyway.
Secretly I am laughing because H is dealing with things I used to handle and I think he's having the startling realization that hey, this is HARD! Respect has increased substantially since he left. Hehehe.
So I laugh inwardly and keep my mouth shut.
M: 16 years Bomb 4/07 OW 20s long gone Divorced 11/09 I remarried New Guy Cooperative r w/X regarding D
My H admitted back in January to me that the happiest and most stable times of his life are with me and the kids.
I think MLC should be placed on the list of mental illnesses--honestly!!
Breton--yeah, reality sets in when they have to pay the bills, etc. I remember back in his spewing days (March-April 2006) he did things that we know he did not know how to do unless he had help from someone. He cancelled me off of credit cards. I went to use one when buying clothes for the kids and I was told the card was declined. When I called the creditor they said my husband cancelled stating "marital status change." I know OW had her hand in many things back then. It was crazy!!
The Bomb: 08/05 H moves out: 06/2006 H moves back: 01/07 & Out again: 01/07 H moves back: 03/08 & Out again: 04/08 H moves back: 05/09 & Out again: 07/09 Divorced 08-12 Kids: 22, 20, 19
First, I think you need to know if your WAS, is in MLC or not.
Aren't there Reconnections outside of MLC? Or is it that Reconnection outside of MLC is so different?
As for me...I focus on MLC, and so if MLC Reconnection differs from the rest, then Yes, you need to know if it's MLC.
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I am of the Opinion that many are not dealing with MLC, but a WAS.
Me too. Hopefully the advice still fits...
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I have a serious question to ask about reconnection; Do you really want them back?
How about Forward? Do you want them forward--no going backwards.
Who do you want forward?
I think it is safe to say you don't want the MLC Monster.
But what about your true spouse--the person stuck inside the Monster...Oh, but you have now changed and come to realize you didn't have a great marriage, he treated you poorly, you haven't been yourself for 15 years...and now you have found peace, strength, freedom...SELF...it's liberating. Great! And maybe that former person hasn't caught up with your growth--likely they haven't since the LBS moves forward faster.
Marriages aren't perfect. We grow together, we grow apart, we change. Sometimes we don't like our spouses changes, he doesn't like our changes. We pay more attention to the kids, dogs, careers. Is this grounds for discarding the vows...at least discarding without effort?
I know, I know...you are the one who tried...he simply up and left. But when did you start trying?...when he left? Many of us LBSs didn't know there was a problem until Bomb Drop.
You started making a conscious effort ot change, yes...but ask those in Piecing--those truly Piecing after long MLC separations...BND...ask her when the relationship trying really starts. Standing tactics...that trying is not the same as relationship trying--working on together trying.
And trying with an active MLCer more than presupposes failure...it pretty much is a futile effort...wait until the MLC is in the past...or at least near the tunnel exit.
What I want is not the man Sweetheart was...I don't want the man he was last week even. And I don't want the MLCer. I want the man he is and will be. I want the man he is capable of being. I want the opportunity to grow together and find out who we can and will be...together. I'm not getting a static person. I don't know who we will be in the future...so there are few requirements...basic morals and standards that are personal to each individual. Respect
Do I want Sweetheart--well, DUH, you know I do.
But I'll throw in my logic too...I invested in Sweetheart, I put love (and promises) into him and our relationship. And sure, I'm younger than many of you out there...so why not risk with someone else? But do you want him/her back is often a loaded question. It is a common question that needs asking...but loaded. Because we are not the person we were when our MLCers left, and they are not the person they were PRe-MLC and when they are at a place where they are ready to return...they will not be the same person as PreMLC or in MLC...and yet it is still not the same as starting over with a completely new person. Change does not erase history and love.
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What requirements would have to be met to open yourself to a reconnection/reconsilliation?
This question can be even more loaded. LBSs put up these requirements for a return...and who can blame them, really...but it doesn't happen or work that way.
MLCers often return broken. You are not getting a shiny new man out of this. After being put through the wringer of MLC...he's worn and ragged. He's afraid he's lost everything--and the majority of everything is YOU...the spouse. He's also so afraid it won't work...because he doesn't trust himself, that he may martyr himself...you are better off without him. Or he is afraid it won't work because you will be unable to forgive and forget and/or you'll hold his transgressions over him for the rest of his life. But even with these fears he begins reconnecting. It is a slow process because he enters the process on the defensive...fearing a backlash from you, and at the same time not wanting to hurt you. Any slight upset toward him from you may set him off--due to the heightened defenses. Since you are not privy to his inner workings, you interpret his behaviour in light of MLC Monster--the jerk etc.
Reconnection and then Reconciliation is NOT all in-fatuation highg like when you first met. You have known this person a long time now. Sure there are new things, but there are old familiar things too. And those new things might be exciting with antoher person...but there is skepticism when with someone more familiar than the back of your hand....like a fun but new sex technique...you wouldn't be upset that a new person had learned it from his former girlfriend...but your spouse may have learned it while cheating...UGH. But...he may have learned it from a video...still the OW idea is there and likely.
Some requirements seem so obvious...No OW contact. And yet even this one may not work. She may contact and he respeonds appropriately...every LBSs dream. But often an appropriate response requires a strong (not still broken) spouse. He doesn't want to be mean...he wants to be her friend, he misses some thigns about her--the OW/OMs are not bad people...they are making poor choices and behaving poorly; they also have good qualities.
Counseling...that seems like a good requirement. I made it a requirement...but only when I felt he was ready. I didn't push on the other returns because the OW was still involved...it didn't FEEL right yet. But we were still able to reconnect.
Maybe the requirements need to come in stages.
Apologies...is that a requirement? Verbal or behavioural? I feel showing is more valuable than mere words...though words can be a start...but others never utter the words, or they say similar words, but not exactly "I'm sorry."
An open heart...is that a requirement...he needs to let you in? Fear keeps the heart shut or the opening at least small...counseling will help here...but that means you need to make the decision to accept him back (and try, no guarantees)before the heart is opened.
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Would you take them back without them showing remorse or apologizing for thier actions? If your answer is yes, I think that you are setting yourself up for hurt later on down the road. I know many here disagree with this statement, but I am of the opinion that if someone put you though utter and total hell for a number of years and came back without any regret, apologies, or remorse, you are dealing with someone who has no respect for you and is just settling for you until someone else comes along.
I don't disagree at all. For instance...Puffy made Lisset and offer--"hey Babe, you can get back the prize, take the weekend to think about it." I do see subtle indications that he feels bad...occasionally--such as when he had to look in her eyes. But overall...no he is not there. But saying and showing aren't the same thing. Sometimes they don't show it as a gift to us...trying to earn back our trust and love intentionally.
I saw remorse simply in Sweetheart's eyes and body language...in his guilt. I saw it in his pain. Perhaps I brought it out in the open by showing my own empathy...but it was there all along.
We want some public announcement--I was wrong and you are a great person! You were right...or something like that.
Well, it doesn't happen that way. It comes in the quiet moments...and the LBS may not even notice. So watch for those...the moment he looks back at you as you walk away. The way he dips his head, the shadows in his eyes.
Sometimes what you are seeking here is not seen or heard but felt. Open yourself to all avenues for connecting to those sources of communication.
Reconnection takes its greatest leaps when you are least noticing...in the gaps between attention. Just stay attuned.
i got that humbled look.....a sweet little look...hard to describe..... right before he said he wanted to come home. sort of humbled, fearful, loving you look all rolled up into one.
Me 53 H 51 OW 25 Bomb may 06 left june 8/ 06 ILYBNILWY (twice!) 7/6/07 H wants to come home 7/21/07 H comes home 7/07 -7/08 long haul letting go of OW now piecing in earnest
You explained things so well and so clearly. I have had such a hard time trying to put the stuff in my head on paper, and you did it for me.
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We want some public announcement--I was wrong and you are a great person! You were right...or something like that.
Well, it doesn't happen that way. It comes in the quiet moments...and the LBS may not even notice. So watch for those...the moment he looks back at you as you walk away. The way he dips his head, the shadows in his eyes.
This was the hardest part, coming to grips with the fact that if he did come back, that he probably wouldn't be grovelling and begging, but may never even mention much about his absence.
This is the part that I did struggle with for so long, because I felt that I deserved so much more then I received.
This is the part where we have to grow up and make a decision to love this person unconditionally, letting go of the past and to move forwards.
I have seen the remorse in Beloved's eyes, in his actions, and sometimes his words. I know he regrets the bad choices he made, and is happy to be back home.
The ugliness of MLC is over now, there is no more spew, or vindictivness. But there is a broken man trying to rebuild his life and face his wife and children daily.
He had an offer to go back to CA and work for a few weeks, which he decided to turn down. I didn't ask him to, but he chose to be home with us. he told me that he didn't want to be apart from the family ever again.
This is the same man who basically ran down the garden path and couldn't wait to get the hell out of our home. He didn't even turn around and wave goodbye to me or the kids, he just left.
The one thing I must add to this discussion is that we can not have any expectations of the MLC'er. Absolutely none.
We can set boundaries, we can protect ourselves financially, but we can't expect anything from them in return.
If they return it will be very hard on the LBS if they are not of the right mindset to receive their Spouse.
Changes need to have been made in their own attitude and this is why newbies are told over and over and over again to work on themselves.
The changes have to be sincere and real. People don't change overnight. It takes months and months and years to see progress.
Even though the LBS is grossly accused of many bad things by the MLC'er, and they may be rather exagerated, there is usually some truth behind the accusations.
Control issues, not interested in sex, overweight, being ignored, taken for granted, the list goes on and on. The changes have to be made, because if not, you will end up right back where you started.
Even if the WAS never returns, these issues are still character flaws and should be taken care of, for yourself, for your own personal growth as a human being.
I am not the same woman as I was before MLC ravaged our household. I have grown up and have survived things I never thought possible. I have also learned how to love my Husband in the way he needs to be loved by learning his love language.
Oh one more thing came to mind...
Your WAS is not the end all of your life. The sun does not rise and set in their eyes. Your life can not stop just because they are not a part of it anymore. Life goes on and life is far too short to waste away pining like a lost puppy.
I know because I wasted so much time worrying and whining about every single little thing instead of living my life to the fullest. I missed out on so many opportunities while my Husband was out in the wilderness.
I will never get those lost years back, and neither will my kids .
If they are to return then it will happen when they are ready, and when they feel safe again with you.
Buy plenty of duct tape for your mouth, because the temptation to have your own spewfest will come up eventually!!
There can be no testimony without a test. I am praying to go through this test and come out the other end with a new and better marriage then before.
What RCR and BND speak is the truth. I cant emphasize this enuff to people aka newbies. or to anyone who doesnt figure out what it takes for WAS to feel 'safe".
Me 53 H 51 OW 25 Bomb may 06 left june 8/ 06 ILYBNILWY (twice!) 7/6/07 H wants to come home 7/21/07 H comes home 7/07 -7/08 long haul letting go of OW now piecing in earnest
What RCR and BND speak is the truth. I cant emphasize this enuff to people aka newbies. or to anyone who doesnt figure out what it takes for WAS to feel 'safe".
OK, I agree that a WAS has to feel safe but I guess you can't show him that it is safe until they are ready. If they are like my H...invisiman... then I can't see any other option but to leave him alone or am I missing something?
Sitting quietly doing nothing, the flowers bloom effortlessly.
bomb: Jan 25, 2006 not seen since DD moved in with H - 9/1/08 H filed for divorce - 11/2008 Divorce dismissed by courts - 4/2010 still nothing
all i know is when i was finally still...(shut up) and thru that found forgiveness, my H started the process back. when he says he started thinking is when i shut up. what contact i had was minimal and i must have given off an aura of peace...is all i can think. The two coincide perfectly.
Me 53 H 51 OW 25 Bomb may 06 left june 8/ 06 ILYBNILWY (twice!) 7/6/07 H wants to come home 7/21/07 H comes home 7/07 -7/08 long haul letting go of OW now piecing in earnest
OK, I agree that a WAS has to feel safe but I guess you can't show him that it is safe until they are ready. If they are like my H...invisiman... then I can't see any other option but to leave him alone or am I missing something?
You be safe anyway--regardless of there attention. The dynamics are different with Dropouts. But your actions...no contacting...are the same as those of us with Drop-Ins, it's just that we have contact through our MLCers intiations. Practice being the safe place, because what it is, is pracicing Forgiveness, Grace and Love. Isn't this something we should be in life anyway?
How much contact did you have before you "shut up" ?? Did you call him daily, wkly, monthly? Did you see him wkly, monthyly? Email him daily wkly monthly?
I think this is important for all of us have different levels of contact. Those with kids have more and those whose H has moved farther away less. So I guess if you can use your sitch and how you cut back maybe we can translate it to ours.
I see H 2-3 times a mon., call him rarely(kid related) and now not at all. Emailed 2-3 times a wk.. now gone from 1-2 to goal is nothing. Am I getting still enough??
m24 yrs h 50 me 47 s 21 s 17 left 5-30-06, and 12-4-06 still gone.............
lets see i actually had gone thru a NC phase that lasted thru dec into feb. except for christmas...he asked to come over...guilt gifts.
but always kept spewing back or digging or trying to defend myself....not good.
being still was not getting baited anymore....letting him initiate all contact. i chose to be slow in most replies. and it was only for business. no phone call allowed. only txt and emails. if he did something like ransack my house that time...i called my L.
I didnt see him much. i tried not to. I was hurting. But when i found the forgiveness....i still hurt but i wasnt angry. This allowed me to let go more of the OW thing. He began to communicate more. He saw safe as me not spewing, defending...and shutting up about OW. In fact i didnt bring her up period. the couple times few times I saw him in april were uneventful. He tried several times to bait me ...i didnt play...his tone softened. the e-mails increased from him.....i still wasnt timely in my responses...or they were of few words. I need blank and blank.
he was peeking i guess i forced him to peek out further. for that bigger peek.....he didnt get his neck snapped off. I went totally out of character and let him have the dogs for a weekend. Of course my GF pointed out let him have the dogs and drive OW and her cat nuts.
"it takes a crisis to end the crisis" when smudgie got sick I let him in for that. we both held on to him when the vet put him to sleep. He loved his dog. after that he began to find reasons to come out uninvited. H said going to the funeral of his boss's dad sealed his wanting to come home.
Court almost killed me i swear. it hurt so much, but it was hurt and sadness not anger. I retreated and cut off all contact.....he did backflips trying to get a message from me.
still is more than no contact. its a peace you find and let go of the anger. I had done NC before. this was different. jeesh am i making sense??? This was a process that started in early march and went thru early July when he asked to come home. These MLCers know the difference between when you are still for yourself or baiting them.
Me 53 H 51 OW 25 Bomb may 06 left june 8/ 06 ILYBNILWY (twice!) 7/6/07 H wants to come home 7/21/07 H comes home 7/07 -7/08 long haul letting go of OW now piecing in earnest
It is amazing to see how they will come back once they think you have "moved on". My W has had an EA/PA with a man who was her dad's best friend. Has is older has a lot more money and spends it without reservation because he is divorced and alone...At first I could tell her enough how pissed off I was that she spent so much time on the phone with him and she even went out him.
This past weekend my W had plans to go to the racetrack for one of her friends birthdays. The person she was going with flaked on her, as most of her friends do, so she asked me to go since I have never been and "she knew I wanted to go." In all honesty I was happy she asked but did not want to go. I had an afternoon with my son setup and dinner with friends. I went anyways as a gesture to my W that I appreciated the invite. We went, conversation in teh car was nice. Some reminiscing about our better days, casual small talk, and even some sarcasm from her. Overall the day went well.
Yesterday I was invited again to go with her to a BBQ with the friend who celebrated the birthday. I went, she playd volleyball and I spent time with my son, which the friends adores. On the way home she suggested that we stop and eat dinner. This was the first time in I do not know how long we went out without other people. She has also been discussing future plans more than ever during all our problems.
I have not been pushing the envelope and letting her be and I believe it has been making her think...
Me=29 WAW=25 S=2 "I need a break" = 6/07 Filed = 12/07
I think that we can show them that we are the safe place, the soft spot to fall, and that we NEED to show them this even when they aren't ready. I don't mean that we need to be clingy or in their faces--nothing like that. I mean that when we project an aura of love and comfort and peace, they are drawn to it before they understand what it is or that it's there.
Wayne Dyer says that you should want something more for others than for yourself. Ultimately, I want the MLC to be over and done with so we can move forward, but I want my H to be able to be at peace.
I have just read through this thread. It contains some really useful advice and comment.
I thought RCRs comments about touch and goes being a part of early reconnection were spot on. I also think that reconnection can start when the OW is in the picture.
I wonder if in part this is because often the MLCer is terrified of being alone? My h always thought he was the 'strong' one who could do without people. He has found that he needs people and is lonely. His family [including me] provided him with his anchor. I thought I couldn't do without people, and have found that I can . . .
I think you need to know if your WAS, is in MLC or not. In reading many of these stories here, I am of the Opinion that many are not dealing with MLC, but a WAS.
What is the difference? I have been looking for this answer for quite some time and still don't understand the difference....
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I certainly think many things are definate MLC tendencies. OP, Youthfull actions, changes in what was everyday routine and thought. Something triggers these changes within a person, you just don;t wake up one morning and start acting completely different. Another thing that I think makes up an MLC personnality is the fact that the MLCer will typically not just leave and not look back, many will keep a tight reign on the spouse that is left until they feel completely safe in plunging into the tunnel. Once there in deep do you see a lot of the meaness, uncaring, and unfeeling. I don't think you see it right off the bat. Once the MLCer initally leaves they will do all the convincing of how you don't need them, how this isn't so bad, etc. Once they are in full blown replay, they really start the disconection, spewing, things of that nature.
From the many kind people who have posted on my threads, they have all indicated that my H is in a MLC, but he doesn't fit a lot of what you posted, braveheart. Maybe he is at the beginning and a lot of this will come, but....
While I do think there is an OW, I don't see him doing the youthful actions - in fact, he has stopped working out, to the best of my knowledge. While there are certainly changes in his everyday thought, I think that the changes in his everyday routine are a result from moving out and now being "single". I can think of no triggering event, and he does not keep a tight rein on me - he hasn't looked back - at least to the best of my knowledge. He couldn't get out of here fast enough. Finally - there has been no meaness - certainly uncaring and unfeeling (how do you just up and leave) that indicates uncaring and unfeeling to me, but no spewing, anger or meaness.
So if this isn't MLC and just WAS, whatever the difference is....what do I do differently, or the same? WAS is a little more frightening to me. I guess if it is MLC, I feel like there is an excuse for his behavior. If it is not, then how do I explain it?
As I reread this, I feel like I may sound like I am challenging you and that is not my intent. I have wondered the difference for some time now, and have wondered about my situation because, while it seems similar to some here, the lack of spewing, the lack of any contact even if to try and get to me, have had me wondering if this is a MLC.
You have good questions, w8ing. One resource that helped me understand MLC better is Jim Conway's book "Men in Midlife Crisis." There's a lot of other MLC ifo out htere, but this was a good place for me to start. Maybe it can answer some of your questions.
I guess the difference to me is in the causes, although what causes MLC is still pretty nebulous in a lot of ways. Not all MLCers will show the same symptoms. For instance, my H never spewed either, but there were/ are a lot of other things that led me to conclude that he's in MLC.
Anyway, there is no excuse for MLC behavior, but there are reasons. That being said, you may never be able to explain this whole thing, MLC or not.
I don't know if any of that helps! Keep GALing; it will get his attention eventually. Do more of what you know works; and if you're not sure what that is, experiment until you do.
Thanks AMD. I do need to get that book because I have seen other posters recommend it....
Did your H have a specific cause that started the decline? That is the other reason that I wonder if mine is in a MLC. There really wasn't anything going on for the last several months...no major birthday (we are past 40), no family or friends deaths, no major job change or additional stressors at the job (although job has always been stressful)..... I would almost feel better (than what, I don't know) if I saw a cause..
But maybe I am just searching for somthing rational to explain his behavior....it could be a long search...a long, empty handed search....
I will second the shout out to each and every one of them. Gosh! It's been a long time and look! Braveheart came back to visit. I hope others will return, even if it means to just pop in and say hello. We miss all of you!
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
I pop in from time to time. I don't post very much anymore, but I do read some threads. I think this board is a huge asset to people going through this.
The board has come a long way since I came here 15 1/2 years ago. When I first came here, we didn't have the luxury of having reference links to help us along. We just had ourselves and we bounced things off of each other. Now, we have reference links and the oldies have hung around a bit to help others. Gosh! I haven't seen too many of the posters that I use to chat w/return here from those days long ago.
I do agree w/you in that this board is a huge asset to people who are experiencing a crisis of any sort. Again, it's come a long way and I hope it improves w/age, i.e., just like a nice bottle of wine.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
