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#1128535 07/10/07 07:55 PM
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Well, I'm back on this board. Been gone about 6 years. And I want to walk away from this M again. Not sorry that I didn't before but the lies are back and H has huge debt. H was downsized over 2 years ago and we are in a tight spot financially. H is lost with his career. H keeps taking commission-only jobs that don't pan out. I have become the family breadwinner and I have a hard time accepting this. H contributes nothing to the family coffers. All bills are paid from my accounts and money is really tight.

I feel like I have no future with H. However, I continue because of our kids although I'm not positive that's the right thing to do. 4-year old D often sings and made up her own song - mommy has no money so don't ask for anything.

I only found out about H's debt because of checking our credit. He has cards and loans that I knew nothing about. The bills go to a p.o. box. I have no idea what he bought or what he did with this money. Welcome to my nightmare. Does anyone know if I can be held responsible for those bills if my name isn't on the accounts or loans?

I need help but I don't know where to turn.

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I don't know the answer, I think it might depend in part on your state - community-property states are different I think.

Seems to me like you might need a divorce just to protect yourself financially, even if you stay in a R with H. Do you truly have no idea what he spent the money on? What's your guess - gambling, drugs, strip clubs?

Perhaps legal aid could answer your questions about liability?

What is H's response to your discovery?

Also - run a credit chck on your name to see if anything coms up in your name.

Ellie

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I speak from experience...although I was able to work this out eventually with my H...of course this followed his losing his career job, taking commision only jobs, getting involved with an OW online and eventually having an A...he ran up about 120,000 in debt...I had just lost my job and we had to sell our home to keep from forclosure...sound familiar so far???

What I can tell you is that if you are in a community property state you are responsible for 1/2 of all debt even if your name is not on the account and even if you had no knowlege of the account....

The only difference is IF you can show a S...I filed a legal separation to protect myself...as it was explained to me by an attorney if I was legally separated at the time he aquired the debt I was not responsible...of course this won't stop creditors from trying to collect from you so you have to be strong...then what we were advised to do is keep the LS in place until H filed bankruptcy...this way it only knocks his credit and not mine...

I know how heart breaking this is...and how uncanny it is that you are dealing with this...my H did a number on me about 6 years before the BIG BOMB...I am so glad now that he can't get credit so he has to live within his means...but right now I would settle for him getting a job...which he is currently looking for...

I don't think this has to be the end of your marriage...but there is definitely some serious issues going on here and you definitely need help...and H has to agree to work with you...

I feel for you...

Take care...Lin


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I'm guessing he spent the money on potential business start-ups because he's always wanted to have his own business. Or, maybe penny stocks. Definitely not drugs. He's mostly home so strip clubs doesn't seem likely, either. We already worked through his MLC about 6 years ago and that's when he did spend money at those clubs. He traveled with his job back then and that is not the case now. I've looked for statements but haven't found anything yet.

I've asked several times about this debt but can't get an answer out of him beyond he did what he had to do to cover expenses. There's nothing tangible I can see that he's bought or done - no fancy car, clothes, electronics, etc. My own credit check is fine. In part, I'm dumbfounded because I don't charge more than I can pay. I like zero balances even more than shopping.

I'm trying to get up the nerve to call a counselor or an attorney. Which is difficult for me because I've always been the person to give help not to need it. I am angry about having to work through more problems again because of what happened before in our M. We went through M counseling and Retrouvaille. It took a lot for me to work through MLC with him and honestly, I don't know if I have the energy for more.

I need to find out if we are a community property state. I live in fear of the unknown - what else don't I know? Somehow I have to face this fear.

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You can find out online if your state is community property or not...but the fact is most are these days due to be fair to women...what's his is hers and vice versa....including debt!

I would like to see the law changed...if it is a card that the other party had no knowlege of...and had no way of knowing of it because the privacy act still protects spouses from spouses!...I don't think that they should be responsible...or if it is proved that the charges were not to the benefit of the household but for OM/OW or selfish desires...


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This goes beyond the enormous debt. I feel devalued as a partner. In the business world - how would one partner feel if the other partner made decisions solo and put the enterprise at risk? I feel like H has allowed the wolves to come knocking at our door. I don't feel safe in my own home. The phone constantly rings with callers looking for H and money. One spouse should not make decisions behind the other spouse's back and leave them out. I have had no voice in this. I do not want to be held accountable for H's actions. The trust is gone. If H was a business partner I would dissolve the relationship. However, I must consider our children. H is a loving dad to them. Which he would continue to be whether I stay with him or not . . .

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This is my first post.... I've been lurking on these forums for months... Your thread is the same story as mine except I am the husband and the stay at home wife was draining all the finances. I felt compelled to reply since I have often used the same exact business analogy on how the partner was "embezzling from the business". You're not alone, and it sucks.
In my case, I have completely taken over all the finances, but the trust is completely gone and I am being told how "tight" I am... Oh well
Good luck to you... I will keep an eye on your thread since I'm at a loss as well and she refuses to go to counseling.

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Thanks for responding. I lurked for some time before I finally got up the nerve to create this thread. I'm sorry to know that someone else is in a similar situation but in a way - I don't feel so all alone. It helps to know that someone else is trying to cope, just like me. Things are not good lately. I invited H to dinner and a movie to try to lighten the mood between us. The better mood lasted a day and now we've slipped back to barely communicating. About being "tight" - I get that from my H, too. However, H has started dipping into the checking account (only my paycheck goes into it) and using my credit card to pay for his expenses, like car payment and gas. I want him to stop but am afraid to tell him. H has a short fuse with me and the kids, lately.

Suggestion for What2DoNow: if your W won't go to counseling, how about a weekend away dedicated to working on your M? H and I went to Retrouvaille (means new beginning)some years ago and it really helped at the time. Kept us together and me from walking. Website is: http://www.retrouvaille.org. It is faith-based but is open to all faiths. It is not counseling but teaches communication between the couple. You don't have to tell anyone your "story". I have recommended this program to coworkers and they found the weekend worthwhile. Check out the site and let me know what you think. Good Luck to you, too!

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Tomorrow is our Anniversary. I am uncomfortable "celebrating" it alone with H so I suggested taking the kids on an overnight trip to a new waterpark. Make it a family day, play with the kids, no work, no bills, just have fun. H agreed and I hope we do have fun. This will be our only family vacation for this summer. I wish I could do more for the kids.

Of course I'll have to pay for the trip so I'm glad there's an extra payday this month. I don't think either one of us was up for the romantic candlelit Anniversary dinner. H asked what he should get me and I said nothing considering what we've been going through. I'll give him a card and maybe he'll have one for me.

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I've been burned on "nothing" before. It meant, "I'm not getting you anything but you'd better get me something good."

If you really want to exchange cards, "A card would be nice" is a good way without seeming like a trap. You will think you've given away the farm. He will think it's a subtle hint.

Perspectives from guy-land.

Openguy, the gift-shy


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Thanks for the perspective. That's a really good point about communicating. I need to remember to be more direct. I received a card plus a box of chocolates. That was a nice touch. My concern with H is that this happens to be a milestone anniversary and I didn't want him to feel bad about not being able to buy expensive gifts for one another. The main thing is that we did spend time together as a family!

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H charged the chocolates to my credit card.

Violet's heart says:
That's okay. He'll pay you back when he gets a commission check. He's your friend and is going through a rough time. Give him a break and things will get better. Things have not been good for 3 years so the pendulum is bound to swing the other way and things will get better.

Violet's head says:
Run, Violet, run. 3 years is long enough. H should be gainfully re-employed since the downsizing. Get out of this M now. H has maxed out his cards and will do the same to yours. You have 3 kids to provide for and H will take you down. Abandon ship.

Welcome to my inner-conflict.

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lol Violet where did you think he'd get the money from. ;\) IMO you should cancel the card he's been using. ANY cards he has been using.

What does he say when you mention he should look for a job with a steady pay check?

It seems to me like separating your finances is the only thing you can do.... I read an article about some one in that situation once and now I can't find it unfortunately.... Unless you want to file bankruptcy it seems to be the best option.


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Well, I guess the joke's on me, Crazedmom. I decided to let the kids eat the chocolates! I know that I should ask H not to use the credit card but I'm afraid he'll blow up if I do. He'll threaten to leave and live out of his car and become a homeless person . . . I guess that's supposed to make me feel guilty.

This morning on my way to work I saw the neighbors walking together and holding hands at 7 a.m. This incredible feeling of jealousy overcame me. How many times I have asked H to go for a walk. Spend even 10 minutes with me, just the two of us. H doesn't hear me or take any action. H just doesn't get it.

I went to the hardware store regarding a home project and the sales associate took the time to make suggestions. He was young and cute and a little flirty and made me laugh. I quickly left the store because I realized I've become vulnerable to other men. This scares me. I see that I am craving attention and probably affection, too.

Maybe the revelation here is that I don't feel much like a woman around H and here some total stranger did make me feel like a woman. I am tired of all of these problems in my M and feel like I've done what I can to fix it. Maybe it's just too broken and I need to face that.

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Violet1,

Have you made any decision about your M? I am the H that created financial hardship for my family and my W moved out with my kids. It is difficult to explain for a man when he doesn't feel confident in his abilities and the finances get out of control. I also made poor choices without consulting my W but there are times, and this is no excuse, that we feel the need to keep things going while getting the finances under control.

I regret my choices and it probably cost me my M. My W no longer trusts or respects me and started, in her words, "something new" with a neighbor that recently divorced. She moved 30 minutes away to her parent's house and has no desire for reconciliation.

I let her and my family down but I only wish she sat down with me to figure out a plan of action. She told me that I didn't have a plan but it was up to me to "fix it".

I miss my family terribly but she chose to be a WAW and get involved with OM. Sometimes men have a hard time swallowing their pride and can't admit that they can't do it alone and must make tough choices(selling the house etc.) that I regret I didn't have the courage to admit I couldn't do it alone.

Don't give up on your M yet. Try as best you can and don't give in to temptation because it will cloud your thinking. Give your M the best chance for survival by reaching out BUT he has to take action by earning back your trust and respect.

MY W lost both for me and I have to live with the guilt of causing our family to break apart.

TRY TRY TRY but it takes two to make a M work.


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It probably doesn't have to be all or nothing. The truth is if you don't face him now with his threats, you will do it months or years from now, because it must be done. And right now, you may be able to set some boundaries, and even get them set in place legally, and yet do it with love... and still keep your marriage together.

You still need to tackle the tough things....this is part of your self care and the care of your family.



I am so sorry you are in this situation. I will be praying for your family.


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Thank you for your input because things are really tough for me right now. I am trying to find the courage to make a move. I see that my doing nothing and hoping for the best is not the answer. I keep thinking that if I hang in there long enough and if I continue to work hard enough that things will change for the better. The pendulum will swing the other way.

However, I am losing my faith and have taken off my wedding ring. There is no OM for me which is the right thing and I will protect me and my kids from that. I do have my Mom and sister who listen and give support but I need professional help.

I made three calls to potential therapists but none of them work with my insurance. Money is a problem so I need someone that will work with the insurance. I am praying for the strength to make more calls and find a therapist.

Thank you for your prayers.

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Think about what you actually want from a therapist.

Perhaps your EAP (Employee Assistance Plan) at work will cover the first few visits and then give you a discount as well. They will usually even link you to a therapist.

If you don't have an EAP, sometimes a church will offer assistance...you may not need to belong to the church, it may be part of an outreach. My first thoughts would be a Catholic Church or a 'mega' church--they often have professional counselors on staff.



Many counseling centers have sliding scales.
Try googling a Center for Human Services in your area. A friend of mine is a counselor for one such center. His therapy is very similar to Michele's style of therapy.

Make sure YOU are comfortable with whoever you choose.


While we are not professionals, please feel free to join the KLA 2007. No matter what you use the tool for, it may be helpful, and we're on your side.

Treat yourself well.

Last edited by sgctxok; 10/26/07 02:08 AM.

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I have not written for six months. However, I made an appointment to attend a seminar next week at a law office. I want to know what my rights are concerning H's debt.

Two weeks ago my D asked me why I don't get a divorce. You are so unhappy all the time - she said. You and dad don't even talk to each other. So much for staying together for the sake of the kids. They see. They know. What kind of life am I living? What kind of example am I giving my kids? I think even Dr. Phil would say that I've earned my way out of this M. Nothing will change unless I change it and once again I must step up and be the responsible one.

Feeling numb . . .

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Violet,
How are you doing?
What steps have you taken to improve your situation and communication with your H?

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"Nothing will change unless I change it and once again I must step up and be the responsible one. "

You always have to be the one to make your life what you want it. If you don't like it, change it. Your job.


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Last Friday I picked H up from work, my suggestion - 30 minute commute. We had not talked about things for months. I used phrases such as "help me understand" and "this is how I'm feeling - alone - I've lost my friend," etc. The biggest blow was the discussion about lack of intimacy - no physical R for months. Received further rejection . . . I asked H why stay together if both of us are unhappy and H told me to do what I want to do. Then we were home. I feel beaten down - shrinking Violet who doesn't stand up for herself. Ha! Got to get over it. Started working on me - going for walks and clearing out clutter. Anything to feel a bit better.

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Violet,

Divorce isn't the worst. Sure, there are bad things about it, primarily to do with the kids, but you do your best between you to make it go as smoothly as possible and stay close together so the kids can see you both and both parents can be active in their lives.

You've given it the college try. How much of yourself have you sacrificed for the sake of an ideal? It sounds to me like you've lost part of yourself and part of a life you only get to live once.

Get yourself emotionally and financially to a place where you are happy without him. He can't control if he decides to continue on his present course, but perhaps he'll respond to your changes with some of his own. Or maybe he'll respond to you dropping the bomb on him. I don't know...I don't usually suggest drastic measures, but just reading your posts dragged me down. Remember to take care of yourself and your kids first.


You cannot be lonely if you like the person you're alone with. Dr. Wayne Dyer
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To me, divorce IS the worst. I don't want to be alone. I don't want to be a single mother. I don't feel ready to cope with all of it. It's as if I want to go swimming, put my foot in the lake, decide the water is too cold so I return to the beach, not ready to take the plunge. I don't know what's lurks in the dark water. Maybe I'm wrong and if I'd take the plunge I would find a whole new beautiful world in that dark water. I don't have the courage I think I should have to take the plunge so I'm sitting on the beach, frozen with fear, I guess, grateful for any ray of light that comes my way.

However, I am taking steps to do some things for myself, to not live in fear. I attended a divorce seminar at a law office to become knowledgeable about the process. I also spoke briefly with an attorney and learned things that lightened some of my biggest concerns. I went to a party with friends and will go away for a girls getaway weekend. These small steps are helping me cope and take care of myself.

Plus, I have my kids and my faith. One day at a time . . .

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Originally Posted By: Violet1
To me, divorce IS the worst. I don't want to be alone. I don't want to be a single mother. I don't feel ready to cope with all of it. It's as if I want to go swimming, put my foot in the lake, decide the water is too cold so I return to the beach, not ready to take the plunge. I don't know what's lurks in the dark water. Maybe I'm wrong and if I'd take the plunge I would find a whole new beautiful world in that dark water. I don't have the courage I think I should have to take the plunge so I'm sitting on the beach, frozen with fear, I guess, grateful for any ray of light that comes my way.

However, I am taking steps to do some things for myself, to not live in fear. I attended a divorce seminar at a law office to become knowledgeable about the process. I also spoke briefly with an attorney and learned things that lightened some of my biggest concerns. I went to a party with friends and will go away for a girls getaway weekend. These small steps are helping me cope and take care of myself.

Plus, I have my kids and my faith. One day at a time . . .


Oh, Violet, my heart aches for you. Divorce isn't the worst -- really, but right now you don't have to make that choice. I think if you keep walking along that lake, doing your deep-knee bends and deep breathing, and acting by your every day actions as though you are a courageous woman, you will become that courageous woman.

I watched someone I loved deeply go through an unwanted divorce, and it's rough on everyone, but it's not the worst. There are many things -- even things you could think of -- which would be much worse.

He's making his financial decisions. You have to be protective of your kids financially, and that doesn't always mean divorce. One step at a time, really.

Hang in there.

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Well, I've been trying to take better care of myself so I started going to WW meetings and taking long walks. Last night I was enjoying the walk, the landscape, close to nature thing and tears sprung up out of nowhere. I asked myself why the tears and I got an answer. Violet, you're so darned angry. This was a lightbulb moment. Part of my problem is that I continue to shove everything inside and I have put up walls. I haven't dealt with things - my choice has been to wait it out and hope that things get better. Which, of course, they haven't. You see, I do not see myself as a victim in my M. I clearly see that I am where I am because of my choice not to deal with things. I avoid confrontation, especially H.

H's financial decisions were made without me in a sneaky way, behind my back. (Statements were sent to H's P.O. box. What's on them - I don't know but I need to find the courage to say - show me or get out.) Making these decisions without me is NOT acceptable and I no longer trust H. I need to face H and tell him that. Period. H views it as HIS problem. However, it DOES impact me and the kids because what he owes greatly impacts the amount of money H can contribute to our household. So, I am stressed out about paying the bills which means my kids have a stressed-out mom. This revelation really stinks.

I'm going to keep walking . . . it's cheap therapy.

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Yesterday was our Anniversary. We exchanged cards and I made dinner at home. It was nice and low-key.

What's bothering me is that my mom called and said, "I guess I SHOULD congratulate you on another anniversary." That hurt! I wanted to lash out but did not. Obviously, she thinks I'm doing the wrong thing by staying married. Maybe she could have told me she admired my tenacity.

I'm just taking things one day at a time remembering that my glass is half full!

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I found these words online that express the struggle between walking away or staying and trying to heal.

"You start having all these thoughts that weren't in your Escape Plan. You remember that despite your spouse's despicable behavior, you actually love him or her. You find yourself reminiscing about all the years you spent together, the good times that you've had. You focus on the fact that you have children together and that there have been many precious family times. You even recall the bad times and how you lived through them as a team. Your pragmatic voice weighs in and reminds you that your financial situation will change. You start to think about the kids being shuttled back and forth from house to house rather than having a home.

The pain of thinking about what it would really be like to say, "Goodbye," and mean it, makes you just a little bit less certain that divorce is the solution. In quiet moments when you feel somewhat more convinced that you actually will survive the pain, you ask yourself, "Can my spouse change?" "Can we do the work necessary to get things back on track?" "Will I ever forgive?" And then slowly, imperceptibly, your focus starts to shift. The impossible gradually becomes a possibility. Before you know it, you're desperately looking for ways to heal and move forward, hoping you'll never pass this way again."

Thank you for giving me a voice!

Author: Michelle Weiner-Davis, "Leave Elizabeth Alone"

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I've been lurking rather than posting; however, H now says he has ruined my life, our children's lives, and is going to D me to set me free -- and file for bankruptcy. H says he is no good to anyone and he has been a failure since a child. Previously, I made a doctor's appt for him to discuss depression. H cancelled the appt.

The fact of the matter is - I'm tired of all of this. Burned out. Years of trying over and over only to discover more of H's deceptions and lies. I have tried time and again to be a good, supportive, understanding, and loving W. But I cannot seem to hang on to this M anymore. I feel so badly for the kids. It all seems so hopeless. I am praying for better days for my family, even if that means D.

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It is so painful to hear about your situation. In some instances I identify with you, in others I identify with your H.

For me, W has been uninvolved with our D6 for the last 6 yrs, and has left all the household chores for me to do, only does her job and comes home to watch tv ( until she left me 2 mos ago).

For her, though I earn on average as much as she does, spend much less on myself, she voiced frustration that I did not have a salaried job like herself, said she was tired of living month to month, though she helped run up the credit cards, and never seems to understand why we are continuiously in debt.

I have wanted to make a career change for a long time as my buisness base has been slowly dwindling and it is harder and harder to make good money in my restoration buisness, especially with a flood of cheap illegal labor and the downturn in the housing and mortgage industries ( I am also a home inspector, something I did at her request, but because of the downswing have not been able to make a go of it).

I feel the frustration intensly of the need and desire to change careers, but feeling professionally boxed in and no quick and easy alternatives. I have applied to several salaried jobs, but have not been hired yet.

It weighs heavily on me and I bet your H has similar feelings.

I don't know his skills or field, but if he has to start over at some entry level job because he is at the top of his feild, I can understand him being depressed.


Me 47, W 32,D 6,
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Bomb 4/08/08, Sep. 8/10/08, Div. 8/10/09

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Thanks for your reply, Native. The economic climate of our state and country does not help my H's situation (and many other people).

I went to D attorney last week. I am not happy with what attorney had to say. Even more of the financial burden will fall on me if I go through with D. I am wrapping my head around the facts and not letting emotions get the best of me. Thinking clearly is half the battle!

H has been very distant and comes home late, usually after kids and I are sleeping. Although, he did call the other night to say he was on his way home. I thanked H for the call. One glimmer of light - something normal - a H calling his W.

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Help me to understand your perspective, you and What2DoNow seem to be in the same place my wife is. I think I understand your point of view but not what would change your feelings of betrayal and mistrust.
My story is a little different (I will post the details later -just new here) and from my point of view I have always been a hard worker and good provider and doing what I thought was in my family's best interests. I was laid off ('02)and tried trading stocks for a living using my retirement account. I had been trading very successfully for years and my career was in the investment field so I had no doubt I could do this. My wife trusted me to do this and anytime I tried to discuss how things were going she was not interested. I was not as good or consistent as I had expected, things are really different brain-wise when trading for a living as opposed to trading for 'fun' with money we did not need for years.

Anyway to keep this short, between spending and trading the retirement account was gone after several years. Wife claimed to have no idea what had been happening even though she knew I was paying all the bills each month and the only money we had was in the retirement account. I thought she knew exactly what was going on and where we were. Bad idea to assume. She found out the $ were gone and lost control. After that we made some changes to how we handle finances so things would be more transparent to her (and more in control by her)and I thought everything was good. In fact before this recent incident I thought our r was the best it had been in years.

Apparently not, as in May our washing maching died, we couldn't afford a big new fancy one like she wanted and something snapped. She completely cut me off physically and emotionally with no explanation. Later to find out she wanted me to leave and had no feelings for me (ILYBNILWY). I am still in our home but she has a deadline for me to get a better job or leave. I will tell more of the story later (look for me in newcomer)but for now I need some ideas on how to rebuild the trust and what it would take from my wife's (or your) viewpoint. She knows that none of this was malicious and says she has forgiven me, but it is obvious there is still anger and resentment. I guess I need little things, baby steps that thru my actions I can gain her trust.

Appreciate any feedback.
thanks,
gtd

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I haven't posted or read anything here in quite awhile. I'm here again because I cannot seem to break the circle. But I want to try. In fact, I asked H to leave a week ago. He threw a tantrum. One second, I could "have everything" and in the next breath "everything is half his." That's exactly my point. Half of everything IS his INCLUDING the bills. So, buck up or get out and STOP living off of your W. I want this nightmare to end. Oldtimer posted to me that I AM responsible for my life. I think I'm ready to face reality. I am STUPID for believing the lies and that things will get better. Naieve, gullible, whatever , , , it came to me as I was sitting in church that I shouldn't be living such a miserable life and that it is up to ME to change things. I've been holding myself back, for the "sake of the kids" I've stayed in this marriage because I don't want to go through the painful process of perhaps getting getting to a better place. The kicker with H was when he asked if my "boyfriend" put me up to this. Boyfriend? Well, where is he then - give me his name and number, H. You jerk.

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I am finally at that place too... ready to take that next big SCARY step and find out what life holds in store for me.


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Violet,

I think your H is depressed. I would make another appointment for him and go with him.

Your post about thinking of all the happy times and realizing that you would have to shuttle the kids back and forth and it really sounds like you truly don't want a divorce.

Just my 3 cents. I added a penny. (inflation)

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It's been a long time since I've logged in or read anyone else's posts. I've prayed long and hard about our situation and have asked God for help in getting to some sort of truthful resolution. I feel like I've been pushed - inch by inch - to the edge of the cliff. Some things have already happened in the New Year that have caused the rock beneath me to crumble and I am losing my footing. I surrender to the fact that I am falling. This is the biggest test of my faith because I need God to catch me. But if that is what it's going to take to get to a new place, and hopefully a better place, then so be it.

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What has changed since last April?

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Since last April H's financial situation continues to decline. Income is down and the debts grow. Collectors call. I work days, H works afternoon and weekends. H steps back - I step forward. H has tax debt which is also my debt because we file jointly. I am trying to get that cleared. I don't see a way out. D doesn't even seem like an option because I could be handed half of his debt. I went to see a D attorney and was told it could be argued that H's debt is outside of the M; however, the judge could simply split assets and debts 50/50. H has no assets as he liquidated his retirement. So, unless I want to give up half of my retirement and take on half of H's debt, well, that's why I'm stuck.

I am a mom-man meaning I nurture the kids and have all of my motherly responsibilities and I have also become the man of the family. I am the breadwinner - like it or not - and I have all of the responsibitilities of the traditional male role. I provide financially for these kids. I work all day, get kids to evening activities, cook dinner, help with homework. H isn't there to help so it's like being a single parent. I don't feel like a woman anymore - not being married to this man. I resent this situation, this H, this marriage.

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Sorry about your current situation.

Last time you posted here your H was unemployed. He is working now. Do you see it as a step in the right direction?

Have you seen any "Till Debt Do Us Apart" episodes with Gail Vaz-Oxlade (sp?)? It's a tv show about married couples with debt and what they can do to improve their financial situations and relationships.

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Have you ever talked to a financial planner?

Do you and your H have a whole picture of your finances?

Is he being fully transparent with you now? Considering you had that problem before.

Are you following a plan of coming out debt? Do you stick to the budget?

When you know both of you are following a plan you have chosen, it is easier to let go of resentment.

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You can file "innocent spouse" if you didn't know about the tax situation but just signed the return. The government understands that sometimes as wives we are coerced or unknowing about what is really going on.
Also, you can do what I did...get a legal seperation so that any further debts are not yours...it is amazing how a debt collector reacts when you just say "we are legally seperated". Then let H file bankruptcy...if you have to do the same then so be it...a lot people have to do that now days and it is not as bad as it used to be.

Lin


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Can you get a legal separation and continue to share the same residence? I don't want to ask H to leave and upset the kids - not in the middle of the school year. H is in the process of filing bankruptcy. I don't like the fact that H's attorney needs copies of my financial info - I am NOT filing and I am NOT bankrupt. I have ended all joint accounts w/ H. So, if you are reading this and your spouse has accumulated great debt - cards in his/her name only - make sure you protect yourself and get out of joint accounts. Your spouse's creditors can post garnishments against joint accounts even if he/she doesn't contribute a cent to that account. Just the fact that their name is on the account means that your money can be taken. Ask me. I learned this the hard way.

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I don't know about your state, but in mine if you are married, you can't file for bankruptcy individually.

DQ

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In my state, you can file bankruptcy individually if you have a legal seperation...and yes, you can get a legal seperation and still live together...it is just what it states...legally seperated in finances and responsibility for the other spouse...this only need applyy if you are in a community property state.
Of note, close ALL joint accounts, especially bank accounts even if there is NO money in them...I didn't know that the bank charges a fee when a collector tries to attach to the bank account and if there is no money the collector doesn't get any but the bank charges the account, in my case over drawing it, and if you don't pay up that is strike on your good credit. After that happened I closed all unused accounts that I held jointly with H...and we have been legally seperated, although living together (happily now)since 2005...no one hassles me for money or his debts and my bank accounts are off limits to all collectors!
I too learned some of this the hard way...like I payed the $10,000 in back taxes and penalties and then found out I could filed innocent spouse...but since we plan on staying together it really would have only prolonged the debt and since we are together it would still have come out of "our" money.


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You can file BK separately here. You can have a separation maintenance agreement but it seems that's what you have while you are waiting for a divorce. I need clarification on that. What I am interested in is a financial separation and to have my own tax return. I do not want to be held legally responsible for the negative financial actions of any other adult. Maybe that means I need a D to make that happen. I am also paying back taxes and learned the hard way about garnishments in joint accounts. It was a financial raping of every cent that I had, thanks to my H. Do I feel safe or protected by my H? Heck, no. H's the one I need protection from.

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I did not get a D...but I do have a LS...you do not have to get a D to obtain a LS nor does a LS have to lead to a D


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Been lurking a long time and not posting but here goes: I am terribly unhappy with my M. H's bankruptcy is in effect. He makes his bankruptcy payment, car payment, and buys some of the food. All the rest is on me. ON ME . . . and I want him to get off of me. There is no sharing of the bills. I tried giving him the lowest bill in the house to pay - on a regular basis - and now the water bill is behind. I am so tired of hearing about his lousy life, how he knows he is the 'scourge of the earth', how he has to 'get his resumes going' . . . BLAH, blah, blah. TAKE ACTION, man.

I used to think I was so strong that I could handle it all and things would get better if I only hang in there but I am tired, drained, and ANGRY - probably angry at myself because of the saying - 'you show people how they can treat you'. I don't want to be treated this way any longer. I see now that I am the enabler. I just can't seem to take the next step because I am afraid of D. I don't want to hurt my kids . . . and I know D hurts kids. I am trapped. I know I need to see a C but there's no money for that. I should get a D but there's no money for that, either.

One day at a time becomes weeks, months, years of a life that feels wrong.

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Hi Violet,

Welcome. Your situation is different than most here. I'm no expert, but let me give you one piece of advice and ask you one question.

Advice:
Post on the NewComers forum, you'll get way more advice.

Question:
Isn't D a drastic first step? I'm sure you feel like you have done everything but aren't there other things you can do? Can you think of any steps that will show your H you mean business but as not quite so drastic?


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M:4 years
T:6 years
No Kids
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W asks for separation - 10/19/2010
Moving on - 10/24/2010
A ends (and I believe her) - 12/2010
Content - 3/1/2011
Served - 3/18/2011
D Day - 6/20/2011
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Look up Retrouvaille. If you can't afford it, they don't make you pay, or let you pay what you can. Almost certainly better than any C you could do.

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D doesn't seem like the first step. It's the last step. I've posted here on-and-off for a number of years. Tried and tried. Worked on myself. Landed a better job which landed me the role of breadwinner. Tried to be supportive of H. Helped with resume and his job search but he won't listen to any of my suggestions. Backed off. Figured it was between H and God. Let them figure it out. H doesn't go to church anymore but I'm still going. Been to C with H and been to Retrouvaille.

Trying to cope with H's bankruptcy. It has a huge impact on me and the kids. Dr Phil says you 'earn your way out of M' and leave no stone unturned. I don't think I've overlooked anything. Actually, the bankruptcy might hold me here until H is done paying - 4 years to go.

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Curious if you ever found the content of your H's debt? Seems that would make a difference to me on which way the M would go.

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No, I've never felt that I have the truth about how the debt accumulated. He won't talk about it - refuses - says it was 'expenses'. Trust is destroyed.

I am afraid of what he'll do next and worry that because we're married - I can be held responsible. Money is very tight. H doesn't seem to mind passing along all household bills to me with the exception of making his own car payment, buying gas and some groceries. He usually doesn't buy dinner items so I grocery shop, too.

Last night I told H that I can't handle all the bills by myself - it is a simple matter of math - and his reply was 'then divorce me'. I don't even know if D is possible because I am worried that I will be assigned half of his debt. What will happen to the house and where will the kids and I live? I need an attorney but I'm not sure how to go about getting someone that's really good and knows about D and bankruptcy. Any ideas?

I'd like to stop living in fear and at least find out what I'm dealing with.

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Still here and things continue to get worse. H had a major rant and was screaming as loud as he could at the kids. I calmly asked H to stop but he wouldn't. Says he gets no respect from kids and that's because of me. Blaming me again for a situation of his own doing.

D8 was hyperventilating during H's rant so I took her outside to calm her. She asked me 'Why did you ever marry him?' I know it was said in the heat of the moment but I really have to ask myself that. Better yet, why do I stay? I tell myself it's better for the kids. Really?

Also, no physical relationship. It's been 7 months. That's very painful to think about.

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Hi Violet-


THIS IS MY OPINION, NOT DB ADVICE:

It has been a long time. Your husbands bankruptcy papers are a public record, read them.

In a lot of places, you can be legally separated and living in the same house. IMO, this would be a step that would give you a chance to save your marriage. Spell out what he must pay for in the household. Spell out what you are not responsible for. Or live separately. Have you pulled your credit reports? If not, do that and see what shows--you will have to keep monitoring it every few months. Just keep making corrections (there is always stuff to correct) and get a free new one. You

I divorced long before coming to the DB board, I came here two relationships later, and now I'm in a wonderful 10 year relationship.

Being divorced is tough on you and the kids. But your situation is miserable.


At the end of the day you have to decide what you can live with. Living doesn't mean being miserable. If you choose to stay, find ways to be really happy, truly happy--for you and your kids.


sg
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I started to write you might be able to get your H's credit report as well.

THIS IS NOT DB ADVICE.


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As a matter of fact I pulled my credit report last Friday and found 1 joint department store account so I closed it.

You're right about my happiness being up to me. I have focused on doing a few things that make me happy and living day-to-day. It's when I look at the big picture and think about the future - that's when I want peace which means D.

So, I am researching attorneys and documenting my situation and questions. I know I need legal advice. I think the thing that will give me peace is not being liable for H's debt. I'm pretty sure that means a D. Planning to visit with attorneys by the end of June.

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Went to see attorney today and finally have some of the answers to my questions. I stuck to seeking facts and didn't shed a tear during the meeting.

I'm not rushing into filing for D. Will probably talk to another attorney or two and check on fees.

Just feeling so done today. I'm also contemplating talking to the priest since H lashed out at me about 'my' sacrament of marriage. H just doesn't get that I've already tried to stay in M as long as I could ... one person doesn't make a team and he's an inactive player on the roster.

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I haven't visited this board in a couple years. I have remained in my marriage and improvements have been made one small step at a time. I am posting today just in case it gives hope to anyone out there who might be reading it!

How have I stayed? Well, I changed how I was looking at things. First of all, I took back my power and stopped allowing myself to feel like a victim. Next, my new mantra became - happiness is a decision. So, I found small things to be happy about on a daily basis. I continue to do this.

My other mantra comes from a song - 'Just hold on loosely, but don't let go. If you cling too tightly, you're gonna lose control.' This wasn't easy but I started thinking about what I do like about H and letting him know. This was a BIG step for me - to 'live' life vs trying to 'control' life and to begin to trust H again. I am still working on that one...

There is no miracle cure. We continue to work through financial struggles and there is another full year ahead before most of the debt will be cleared. So, I don't know the end of my story yet!

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Great post and so true. Thanks and continued learning to you both.


Me 57/H 58
M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13

Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do.
I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering.
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We are almost out of the woods with this major financial obligation. I admit that it's painful to read my own story here but it is also liberating to know that hard work, baby steps and time have improved my M. Our marriage.

I continue to work on myself and do small things each day for the betterment of our M. I pause when making decisions because I want to make choices that are good for my M. and will bring me closer to my H. That part won't end. Gotta keep working on it!

I have more gratitude now than ever before.

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Good to read


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