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Fear of abandonment... I abandoned myself.

Dude, this is me and I never knew it until I read this post.

I too lived through some pretty horrible stuff as a kid and decided to live in my head because of it. Unusual because I'm a woman so I could fake my emotion well but I wouldn't let me feel it. OMG. I need to write this stuff down...

Dissociation, huh? I need to look more into this.

Thank you!!!


M: 37 H: 36
M: 13 T: 18
D: 7
Bomb: 6/30/14
Separation: 8/11/14

Be strong enough to let go and wise enough to wait for what you deserve.
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I'm not exactly sure what kind of response you are expecting. You found out about things that happened in your past. That's great. But they aren't going to help you right now and definitely isn't going to help get your W back.


M-43 W-40
2D - 9 and 5

Emotion, yet peace.
Ignorance, yet knowledge.
Passion, yet serenity.
Chaos, yet harmony.
Death, yet a new life.

RECONCILED AND WISER
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Zues126 Offline OP
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Couple of things to say tonight.

1) Mr. Bond, I appreciate you steering me the best you can. I really do. Your point is well taken. The whole DB approach is based on simple behavior and dynamic adjustments, not time traveling and Freudian psychobabble. I get it. The reason this breakthrough is big for me is though it by itself doesn't do one iota's worth of good in a vacuum, it is making it easier for me to make the changes that will. For example, consider the following goals with detachment/GAL/180s:

-Detaching. I'm feeling more comfortable in my own skin. I feel very confident in my ability to navigate through whatever life throws at me. Understand, I was hurting at a level 10 on the pain scale for periods of time that felt I was crossing oceans. I know I will still have powerful emotions and difficult times, but I KNOW I can handle them because dealing with reality isn't nearly as bad as dealing with the fear of what might come. Because of this I'm more at peace with the divorce than I thought I ever could be.

-GAL. Because I'm feeling better about myself and my ability to meet my own emotional needs I am finding more joy in things than I have in the past. It's leading to me truly feeling more confident and content. Even when life is tough right now I'm realizing I can thrive.

-Validating (180) I am more in tune with my own emotions, and better able to understand my STBX's. Also, because I'm not as needy or insecure, I am not as threatened by her point of view because if that means I get rejected or don't get everything I want, I can handle that.

-Less angry/intense (180): I'm finding I don't build up my neglected emotions or blow things out of proportion, so I can be more even keel and less threatening.

-Focusing on the needs of others (180): I am able to do this easier because I'm not looking for a return on investment. In the past I did things because I expected reciprocation. Now I don't feel as needy which allows me to be more generous. I'm channeling that towards being a better father and co-parent.

2) Finally, the update. Tonight was my night to be with the children, still visiting them at my old place with STBX around. Things were really warm. I felt very at peace, not concerned about her or what she was thinking, and just focused on having quality time with the children. And the atmosphere was one of laughter, fun, and some good connection.

My W initiated a few exchanges and it was very comfortable. I did some things with the kids that got them laughing and she joined when she was around. Laughing at my jokes, things like that. Then she surprised me by asking if I was hungry, ended up making us kabobs on the grill. Finally she asked for my help moving something heavy out of the garage, she asked if it was heavy enough for me and I replied "Light...as...a feather" in between grunts, got another laugh (had to be there).

To be clear, nothing said or done across the line of what you'd do with a friendly neighbor. With one exception. The vibe in the room was very safe, upbeat, casual, and...we'll stick with very warm.

Doesn't mean she's not proceeding with the D or that she's going to change her mind. But she's seeing the best part of me, and I'm feeling like I'm becoming more of the H only a fool would leave. Best of all I'm not stressed out about how she feels, what it means. I'll be fine and I'll enjoy the warmth and good will co-parenting our children and be grateful for those moments when they come. Maybe more will happen. Maybe not. But I'm blessed that we aren't trying to kill each other.

Doesn't mean I don't need to continue to grow. My two big goals are to get further involved with co-parenting (learning what's she's doing with them so I can be consistent and support her) and learning more about handling my emotions (I'm shelving the relationship books for a moment and reading more about my personal growth).

Thanks!

Last edited by Zues126; 07/25/14 04:38 AM.

Me:38 XW:38
T:11 years M:8 years
Kids: S14, D11, D7
BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
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I spoke with my DB coach yesterday. She was proud of how I handled things so far but had some great feedback on what I needed to do to keep moving. Namely, get more involved with the kids collaboratively.

I realized I was scared of this for a few reasons. It's something I'm not 'good at'. My W always raised the kids, I just paid bills. Also, I found myself not very detached. I was afraid of stepping on her 'turf' and that she'd be threatened and hostile, critical, and angry about my last failings. I am afraid ill make big mistakes that will hurt he kids and make her think even less about me or validate her negative feelings.

But those are feelings, and I'm learning how to handle feelings. The have something to say, so I'll listen, but I can't let them run the ship. I realized that making mistakes as a parent isn't as bad as not making any by not trying. And that she will react how she reacts, but my kids deserve a father committed enough to them to not let fear come between us.

So I followed my DB coaches advice and sent W an email about my thoughts on what my son is going through. I won't go into details, but I acknowledged that he was insecure about his relationship with me as I was never around much and now it's even less. And that I wanted to get more involved but knew it was a sensitive situation and wanted to follow her lead so I was consistent with how she was handling it. I told her some things I'd been talking about with him, and asked for help as to how I can support this.

I will admit its tough right now. I know I'm strong enough to make it on my own but I have such a sense if regret for not having done this sooner. I could've had a better relationship with my son, and it feels very intimate to share discussions with my W about something so important. I truly see how hard she's worked to raise them and how little emotional or hands on support I gave her. What a loss. I admit I dream of the chance to be close with her again, talking about these things while lying next to each other in bed. But I have learned that its easy to feel so strongly that you are blind, and while I long for the chance to make things right she is in a totally different place, and is deeply scared and hurt. I am sorry for that and will respect her need for space, even if it should prove to be eternal. I pray for her to be fulfilled.

So now that I've allowed that feeling to come and go I will also pray for my strength to handle the consequences of my choices, to be able to give myself the love I need, and to be a better role-model for my kids. I'm grateful she's been so cooperative and amicable and that she encourages my relationship with them. She may never let me back in but she truly is a woman of character.

Goodnight all!


Me:38 XW:38
T:11 years M:8 years
Kids: S14, D11, D7
BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
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Wow Zues, as left behind spouses we've really got ourselves in a pickle, haven't we?

You've gone through some pretty heavy stuff these several weeks. It still stinks but you're growing. You're learning about all your negative patterns/behaviors/thoughts and acknowledging they exist. Sometimes doing something about them takes a little longer to sink in. Sometimes you just won't have any idea where to start but the fact that you are becoming more self aware is fantastic!

I'm glad you've started the DB coaching. I'm doing both IC and DB coaching. I space them out so it helps carry me through the week. There's those days when you really need words of wisdom and no one seems to around of available and so you have to sit in your misery alone. I feel these opportunities make you stronger even though you feel your most despair...just keep on going.

Navigating through the tricky waters of detachment can make you feel a slew of emotions you didn't know you could feel and all at once! I'm in and out of it too. What helped me a lot was to think about my H as a wayward rebellious teenager who is just darn determined to go against better advice. For most people they absolutely have to sink to the bottom before reality kicks them in the butt. I feel this is where you are and maybe your wife too. It's kinda hard to gauge her personality since I haven't read much of anywhere where you've spoken so negatively about her. You've made her out to be a saint! Not that it's a bad thing but remember that it took interactions or the lack thereof of two people to arrive anywhere. Yeah, you played a big part in the demise of your M but you can't take all the blame and you definitely can't hold yourself accountable for her part. You can poke and prod her to get a reaction but she can choose not to react of react in a more productive way.

Till this day my H blames me for getting us to where we are. He blames me for him going to the attorney's office to draft the S papers. He blames me for him having to take it that far. Essentially, he blames me for making him feel like he had no other choice but to give up. Amazing! I just shake my head and continue on with my changes. I used to hold him in such high esteem because he could stay in a room and communicate when we got into arguments. I would storm out in a huff and tears. Now I realize he's flawed too and though he may be able to stay in the room when I can't doesn't mean he's any better at communication or somehow more superior.

Watching our loved ones go through what we know will hurt them is a difficult task because we want to save them that agony. However, like Starsky said in her post (which is available in my second thread "Onto another square" pulling back is giving the WAS the freedom to walk their own path. I love my H enough to let him walk through his hot coals. If I stop him or otherwise, he may never discover that I will be at the other end cheering him on.

The best thing that has happened to you in all this is that you're breaking your negative patterns and becoming a better person. You're drawing closer to your children--that's wonderful! You've stepped outside of your selfish bubble and learning the needs of others around you. More importantly, you're learning that you are a valuable asset to your kids.

That's my two cents for the day. Hopefully it was a big enough pat on the back for your progress!

Btw, how's the Power of a Praying H going? Are you finding it helpful at all? I'm on round two at almost 60 days! Who says you have to stop reading once you get to the end?


M:33
H:37
T:6 years
M:3 years
ILYBNIWY:5-22-14

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Thanks CMF. I've been off and on with prayer of a loving H. I was reading a chapter daily, now it's intermittent. Thanks for the kick in the rear, I'll start daily again.

I too have a standard therapist and a DB coach. Have used both since week 1. At first I was doing both weekly, now they're both bi-weekly and I alternate like you for similar reasons. My therapist helps me with me, my DB is my relationship guide.

My wife is a saint...but not perfect. The surface is misleading. She was co-dependent with me, and her role was to be the noble martyr. So she suffered silently, caregiving for me and the kids. So that's not necessarily who she is, and now that cycle has been broken I'm sure she's transforming into someone ready to stand up And voice her opinions and needs. The D is just an example. Fun y thing is I like her more like this. I felt lonely during the R because I felt she was a shell of a person at times. She was raised in a house with a lot of anger and has PTSD. So she's been very timid, she learned to be a pleaser to be accepted. My dad told me a heartbreaking joke about a guy who says to his angry wife "I like you like this!" And she replies "well, goodbye!"

But while that is superficial the reason I think she really is a saint is that beneath this all she has tremendous character. She has voiced her hurt and why she is angry and fed up with me. But only because it had to boil over for her to speak up. Since then her behavior has been very reasonable and well intended. She has strong values and wants me to be involved with the children. She wants to keep things friendly and stay friends. She is a perfect mother. She isn't doing a thin destructive but is focused on her healing and growing stronger.

The only things I am frustrated with her about I may have caused. I am angry she walked away, but I put her in so much pain she couldn't go on. I am angry she didn't voice her concerns so I could hear them, but I was too scary/intense for her to come out of her shell and dismissed what she did communicate because it threatened me getting what I need. I am angry at how little she put into the R. But I was impossible to please and not affirming, so I did nothing to encourage her. I am angry she didn't understand how important a good sex life is to me, but I lived in a world of porn which skewed my priorities and expectations, and needed more than was reasonable for her to give. Funny thin is that during the R what I really wanted is for her to need/respect/admire/appreciate me, and she was such a pleaser she wouldn't let me do that for her. But again, my needs.

She does have growing to do as we all do. She is so sensitive, it would help if she could speak her opinion. She goes between silence to boiling over which makes me feel ambushed. She could be more understanding of my needs and put more into the R. And she could give me another chance. But that is all up to her. I LOVE her, HER, so deeply, and want her to be fulfilled.

Space is good so we can both grow stronger on our own. Email is good because it levels the playing field. I can tone down and choose a laid back tone. Her whispers come through loud and clear. My therapist said he was inspired by this and may recommend email as a form of communication for couples with our dynamic. Time is good to let the dust settle and take it slow.

I have more growing to do. In the back of my mind I'm hoping we get back together and we achieve a perfect R where we understand all of these things about each other perfectly, transcend them, and we can finally share our love the way we were intended to and meet each others needs to the fullest. I realize that is idealistic and settin me up for pain and disappointment. I'm trying to walk the balance of preparing to be as close to the perfect H as I can be while still being strong enough to live in a world of misunderstandings, pain, and loneliness which can't be avoided.


Last edited by Zues126; 07/26/14 07:19 PM.

Me:38 XW:38
T:11 years M:8 years
Kids: S14, D11, D7
BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
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Question for the vets. I am getting conflicting advice from my DB coach vs what I've read on the forums here in regards to the 'friend zone' with my STBX.

STBX made the statement 'I hope we can stay friends' a week ago. She has started acting neighbor friendly- no deep emotional conversations, but a couple of friendly exchanges and texts.

Some threads talk about staying dark and detached to drive home the reality of the D. My DB coach thinks its great and says I should casually invite her to join in some things I'm doing with the kids when I'm visiting (whether its playing a game, going for a walk, etc). She says its all part of building a new relationship based on respect for her autonomy, good will, and collaborative coparenting.

Personally I am going to follow this advice for a few reasons. One, during the R one of my biggest faults was distancing during painful situations. So this is a 180. It also gives me opportunities for her to see my other changes. It allows us to work through details with the kids more easily and show them warm behavior. Most of all, I am appreciative that even if we never go beyond that I would rather forgive and let to of the pain and enjoy the positives we do get to have, even if I wish there would be more at some point.

So vets, am I missing something here that would hurt our growth or chances?


Me:38 XW:38
T:11 years M:8 years
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BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
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Zeus. I am no vet. Not even in the closet form of it. I do see that if the db coach is telling you to ask her to join then I would go with that. When you are around your kids. You said so yourself that you have been distant from her so ya talking to her when you are there is a 180. Remember we are in a marathon brotha and I and a lot of other people are running beside you.


ME 31 / W 35
M 3 / T 7
S 2 / S 14 D 5 / D 8

ME MOVED OUT 06/07/14
W THINKS D WOULD BE BEST FOR EVERYONE 7/2/14
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Thanks heads.

My journal of the day is about the present. It's hard to stay in the present. It's so easy to want to look into a crystal ball to figure out what's going to happen. Is it possible that she has second thoughts before the D is finalized (which hasn't been started yet)? If not, is it possible that we'll get back together after that? If not, is I possible that I'll ever find a woman as wonderful again? And would that R be better? Or would she leave me too?

Seriously, I need to stop.

Funny thing is that the present is all we have, and what's really wrong with it? My STBX still cares for me and things are friendly. She's committed to making sure I have time with the kids and I'm a better father than ever, never been closer. She's commented on that as well and said she hopes it continues. I have a good job I like. And I have time for my hobbies which I enjoy as well. Why is it so hard to just enjoy that!

My wife's biggest complaint was my high expectations, I was never satisfied. And I can see it now. If I can't enjoy the life I have now getting back together wouldn't change anything. I'd just have someone to blame it on. But for some reason being in doubt about the future is really hard- even though that's life and any certainties we have are illusionary.

I know this in my head but its hard for me. When I find myself wanting to fast forward life to when I'm in another R and 'happy' I call myself out and realize only I can comfort myself, so I try to address my inner child, give him a hug, tell him I love him, and pray for comfort. I also try to appreciate what I have. Finally, I try to accept that it's the human condition that we all feel scared and lonely at times and I can't wait until I 'fix' myself to enjoy life. In fact, enjoying life anyway is very close to fixing myself!!!

Anyone else have any exercises for someone who (kind of) gets it in their head but has a hard time staying grounded???

Ps- cant tell her so ill tell you all...I really do love my W. She is so beautiful inside and out. Sending her and all of you good will!


Me:38 XW:38
T:11 years M:8 years
Kids: S14, D11, D7
BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
Joined: Jun 2014
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Hey Zues!

You know the advice I've received from my DB coach also conflicted with some of the advice given here. It's hard not to want to put it into action right away without any forethought but do give it some time to sink in. It helps because 1.)you're in a highly emotional state so anything you do will probably be emotion based. So, it would be hard to think like a DBer when you're emotionally invested. Not that it's bad to be emotionally invested but... B.) you're hurting and are wanting to reach out to her and 3.)refer back to number 1.

This whole going dark thing has been pretty confusing. There can still be a happy medium--I believe. I suppose you can still remain dark about your feelings for her while maintaining a friendly co-parenting relationship. Easier said than done I'm sure. I forget if there is OM. The fact that she's initiating even though it's not about the two of you shows she still has good will in her heart. You may not be able to win her back to reconciliation but she can learn to respect you as a father. So doing things with her and the kids will be an opportunity for you to showcase your changes. smile This could be your doorway. wink

How to get your mind of things? Um...stop thinking about it or really think on it. If it's painful and you're beating yourself up then stop the thoughts. Don't ask why or say but...if...but...just hit the brakes! If you're still stuck then you may have to just feel through it until in passes. I find that prayer and remembering who the true enemy is enough to get me focused again.

I heard a really good sermon this morning at a church I've been visiting during my stay here. The pastor said that once you've been welcomed into the flock (saved) then you've been enlisted in God's army. He then goes on to say that we are engaged in a spiritual warfare and it's not against each other but between our flesh and spirit...against the true enemy. And it's constant.

I read in one of my books that the enemy uses our emotions to get to our free will. He never makes us do anything. He deceives us and whispers lies in our ears that push us to our breaking point that makes us do the bad things. All of your negative thoughts are fed to you by the enemy and if you sit there and give it a minute of your day you will get sucked in. So stop having secret conversations in your head. Instead pray about it or talk it out with someone. Do you have a support group?


M:33
H:37
T:6 years
M:3 years
ILYBNIWY:5-22-14

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