Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 149
P
Psych77 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 149
I used to post here very frequently, and I always enjoyed the feeling of support I got, and some of the relief from the loneliness. I need that again, as DBing has not been successful so far.

W and I have been M for almost 20 years, now, and it has been rocky for most of it. Both of us stayed together because we really believe in M, and were determined to stick it out and make it work. We were really in love. I still do love her, but there is so little left that we can do.

I have had a problem with my temper for a while. I don't strike anyone, or even threaten to do so (W has sometimes threatened physical violence), but sometimes when I am upset, feel I am misunderstood, or am being accused of something I don't think I did, I will sometimes scream, and get too close to W, with the result that she feels threatened. I didn't want to intimidate her, but that is what I ended up doing. Mind you, this problem is only what has been happening for the last few years of the marriage. During a session of MC, W asked me, "How badly do you want to save this M?" and asked me to go to a batterer's intervention group. The program lasted 40 weeks, but with days taken off for holidays and such, it ended up taking about a year. But less than halfway through it, W took me aside and told me that to continue to work on the M was torture for her, and she did not want to try anymore. She told me that as far as she was concerned, the M was over. We agreed to continue to live together, because we cannot afford 2 homes, because neither of us wants to live apart from the children, and because we want to give them as stable a home environment as possible.

We don't talk anymore, except about what absolutely has to be said. That was the way it had been before she told me she didn't want to try anymore - she had asked me to keep a distance until we got things sorted out - but since she said she was done with the M, things seem to be more hostile in the home than ever before. When I try to talk about anything, she gets angry, and if I don't back away, it turns into a fight. For example, most nights I take over with the kids when I get home, but last night I told Jennifer that tonight I would be returning to karate class (I have little going on outside the home). Because I knew that meant I would not be supervising the kids for a part of the evening, I started to say, "If there is anything I can do to make things easier for you..." She cut me off there, and said, "You have never done anything to make anything easier for me. You saying that is so insulting!" Mind you, I work 50-60 hours per week as the only income in the family, take over duty with the kids as soon as I get home, supervising them cleaning up the kitchen (which, as many parents know, is often more work than actually cleaning up the kitchen yourself), and reading to them before bed. Additionally, 2 nights a week, I prepare a dinner ahead of time so W can put it into the oven the next day and not worry about cooking (I offered to do that, and W said less than a year ago that this had been very helpful).

The night W told me she was done with the M, she had just seen the MC for an individual visit the night before (that night she told me that she would no longer be going back to the MC). When I had gone to MC the previous week, they had told me basically that W was very hurt, and said that she looked like she was going to be pretty hostile for a while. They coached me in being prepared to absorb her digs, and to let it roll off when she interpreted everything I did in the most negative way possible. They congratulated me on living with this situation as long as I had (I was, and still am, sleeping on a cot in the basement next to the boiler). I wonder if they had challenged her on her decisions, and that was the reason behind her decision to give up on M.

In IC, I have been talking about the conflicts between me and W, and IC has been trying to convince me that I am not the only one being unkind in this R - while I defend W and her position, IC has been trying to tell me that W is being emotionally abusive to me.

Some of her latest barbed comments have actually made it easier for me to detach. I have finally realized that, no matter what I do, it will never be taken as something good. Offering to help will always be thrown back into my face. Not only is it OK for me to pursue my own life, it is the only choice I have left. I need to stop trying to please her, because I won't. In a strange sense, it is a relief to realize this.

The problems are multiple. We are Catholics, and neither of us believe in D and remarriage (although after this experience, I will never again be tempted to look judgmentally on someone who does so). We have taught our children that M is forever. My kids have become attached to me (thank God), and I don't want to be separated from them. And finally, I still love W, although right now I feel nothing but tense and threatened when I am around her.

Our whole relationship would have to be entirely different for me to even WANT to have it back. But W seems to think the whole thing is my fault, and seems to see no reason why she needs to change now (in fairness, earlier on in the R, she tried to make a lot of differences, and often blamed herself inappropriately for problems between us).

Our M crisis has been going on for years now, and we have been to multiple MCs.

And now, I feel kind of aimless. I am not wanted in W's life. I love to spend time with the kids, but I have to try not to be too obtrusive with W while I am around the house. In all honesty, I feel more comfortable at work than at home.

I guess I just came here because I needed to let it out, and get some feedback. Maybe talk to somebody who understands, or just talk to another adult who is supportive rather than hostile.

Sorry for exploding all over the place. Just a whole lot going on.


Think about it...if you met a potential mate who was nothing but a bundle of needs, would YOU be attracted to them?
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 12,602
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 12,602
"I need that again, as DBing has not been successful so far. "

Don't blame DB. It's obvious things haven't worked out because you haven't changed. You have a temper, you haven't learned to communicate better and changed attitudes towards her and even reading your post, you explain how you know that you have this problem, but then explain that your W is hostile, and how you're trying to "please" her.

She doesn't want you to "please" her. She wanted you to change so that she felt safe to be around you. It doesn't matter how many MC's you go to if the basic problem is that you don't change.

What have you changed? What did the MC's recommend to you?


M-43 W-40
2D - 9 and 5

Emotion, yet peace.
Ignorance, yet knowledge.
Passion, yet serenity.
Chaos, yet harmony.
Death, yet a new life.

RECONCILED AND WISER
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 4,866
~
Member
Offline
Member
~
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 4,866
Hi Psych, I've seen your postings here as of late. I would have responded earlier and would post more, but I cannot give more than the support of this one post, at this time.

I feel I understand you and your sitch well enough to say that I believe you have tried your best to make this work and your M survive.

Having said that, perhaps it is time to stand still, regarding changing yourself to save the M.

I know that when one is so enmeshed in something and working on it, very hard, for a long time, burnout occurs. When that happens, the only thing that helps is to take a break from it. Rather than working harder and trying to push on. That is the purpose for vacations and sabbaticals. Perhaps... that is what you need.

Perhaps truly working on GAL, focusing on your kids, and planning on a future that may not include your W, is a place to put your full attention.

Give that some thought. You have poked and prodded and tried to fix your M. Trust that God will show you the way to a better future, regardless of what that future may look. And that you go willingly, in growth, towards that future.

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 149
P
Psych77 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 149
You assume a lot, Mr. Bond.

I don't know exactly how it is "obvious" that I have not changed. Yes, I have a temper. I have more recently learned to pull out of arguments instead of yelling. And there have been multiple times when I was the one who refused to continue arguing, while W went on a tirade. I believe that is a change.

How exactly did you conclude that I have not learned to communicate better? Or changed attitudes toward her?

And yes, I do try to "please" her. I try to do things that are considerate...somehow, I didn't think that trying to be more considerate was a violation of the principles of DBing.

As I said in my post, the MCs recommended to me that I learn to accept that W will be interpreting everything I do as maliciously intended, something that they were observing in our sessions, and that I would have to live with this for quite some time before any positive change would come about. This is something that I have, albeit imperfectly, done. I react a lot less than I used to when W tells me what a <excrement> I am for making simple mistakes, or when she spits in my face. They commended me on the changes that they had seen me make - even though it is "obvious" to you that I have not made any. And 1 week later, W said there would be no recovery for our M.

2 weeks ago, I made baked macaroni and cheese with the wrong kind of cheese, and she accused me of doing it on purpose, just to spite her and our daughter. And, in saying so, she let forth a stream of obscenities at me. Thank God the kids were not up at that time, as I was preparing dinner for the next day.

And FWIW, I am not "blaming" DB. I am just saying it has not been working for me. The fact that it has not helped for me (and yes, I have been applying a lot of the principles, although I will admit I have sometimes forgotten myself) does not mean that I am saying the program is bad. It does not guarantee success. That's all.

Sorry for my tone.

My life is falling apart, my W has told me (with raised voice) that I should never hope for anything to get any better, and I am grasping for something to hope for.

Honestly, having someone turn around with, "Well, it's all your own fault," doesn't really help.


Think about it...if you met a potential mate who was nothing but a bundle of needs, would YOU be attracted to them?
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 149
P
Psych77 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 149
Kaffe,

cry Thank you. I guess that is kind of where I was going anyway, but I just needed someone else to talk to me.

Again, Bond, I am sorry for my tone earlier. I haven't lost my temper in person for a while, but I kind of lost my temper online just now. eek


Think about it...if you met a potential mate who was nothing but a bundle of needs, would YOU be attracted to them?
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 149
P
Psych77 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 149
OK, I get it.

Based on my reaction yesterday, it is obvious that I haven't changed much, yet. You were right, Bond.

I have been trying for the last few years to change everything. I have been driving myself to fix everything in me that has led our M to the state that it is in. And I don't know if anything in me has changed.

My kids seem to think that I am a good dad. They really like me, and show me genuine affection, and they look forward to my coming home in the evening. So I'm not all bad.

But in adult relationships I seem to be fairly inept. I even fail to control my temper online, when I actually have to take time to think about and type what I want to say. It's no wonder W doesn't feel safe around me when we are face to face.

I feel insecure about everything right now - I'm so protective of anything I feel I've done right, because I feel like I need to hang onto those things...I've screwed up so much, and that is constantly in my face, that I cling to the little bits of headway that I have made.

I guess I am kind of losing hope. One thing I know for sure is that I need some kind of adult contact apart from W, because it is clear that this relationship will not feed me emotionally right now. I have to live and thrive emotionally without W, because if we are to be together again, that will surely be a precondition, and (more likely) otherwise I am on my own emotionally from now on.

So, if people would be so charitable as to ignore my earlier, "Mr. Hyde" post, I would like to interact a little bit.


Think about it...if you met a potential mate who was nothing but a bundle of needs, would YOU be attracted to them?
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 12,602
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 12,602
You're starting to get it. All the counseling in the world isn't going to save you unless YOU start to change. All of the snarky and critical comments you are seeing from her is because that's how the two of you have communicated for awhile. And once you do control your temper, it will take awhile for her to respond nicely to them. But you change and make them permanent. Having a bad temper is definitely not a good thing in life. Stepping away from an argument is a step, but it doesn't address 'WHY' you got angry in the first place.

It's like your MC. They will tell you what you can do physically to defuse an argument, but it doesn't explain 'WHY' you get upset in the first place.

The fact that your W was willing to work on your marriage before is a plus. YOU start to change and she will follow. You just need patience.

I really do think your M can be saved. But only when YOU save yourself first.


M-43 W-40
2D - 9 and 5

Emotion, yet peace.
Ignorance, yet knowledge.
Passion, yet serenity.
Chaos, yet harmony.
Death, yet a new life.

RECONCILED AND WISER
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 149
P
Psych77 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 149
Quote:
I really do think your M can be saved.


That is something more hopeful than I have heard - or thought - in a long time.

W said she wasn't willing to work on M anymore back in August, and over the last month I have been sinking into a depression. It is hard to resist at this point - I have been trying to make changes for a long time, and changing me is like trying to mold granite - things don't happen very fast. And in the meantime I am getting tired and lonely.

Thanks for the encouragement - it just may help me to keep going a little longer.


Think about it...if you met a potential mate who was nothing but a bundle of needs, would YOU be attracted to them?
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 12,602
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 12,602
"I have been trying to make changes for a long time, and changing me is like trying to mold granite - things don't happen very fast. "

But the changes have to START first. You saying how stubborn you are etc. are just excuses. You either man up to them and just DO IT or you just blame it on apathy and say "well I can't change". Everyone can change. If YOU CHOOSE to change.


M-43 W-40
2D - 9 and 5

Emotion, yet peace.
Ignorance, yet knowledge.
Passion, yet serenity.
Chaos, yet harmony.
Death, yet a new life.

RECONCILED AND WISER
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 149
P
Psych77 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 149
ALRIGHT

I guess it's time to go right back to the beginning. Start from the ground level and build up.

Since W has left me, effectively, alone, I now have the time for a complete renovation of myself. Besides, that is exactly what is needed.

When W fell in love with me in the first place, I was my own person, with some confidence in what I had to offer. I liked myself, because I saw some good qualities in me that I was happy to open up to other people. The seeds of my bad temper were present (and will still need to be worked on) but I was not as quick tempered, because I was much more secure in my own feelings about myself. W could make little jokes about me, and I was usually OK with it, because she was not my only source of affirmation in life.

Compare that to now. I am socially isolated, live my life with little concern for anything except whether I am an adequate husband and father (much of that being focused on whether I am making enough money), and I am anxious that I am inadequate most of the time. Every time W says anything in criticism of my fatherhood or my role as a husband or provider, it tears me apart, because for years I have allowed her to be the only judge of my worth. As a result, it is only with effort that I can hold back my temper, as I want to defend myself against what she says about me. My skin has gotten thin, and so my first reaction, if I do not restrain myself, has been to lash out.

So, for my own sake (and, in the eventuality of a reconciliation, for W's sake), I must regain my independence - be able to support myself emotionally without W.
For a first step, I will start taking Karate again - this will put me in contact with other people, and give me a chance to feel good about myself by achieving something

I have Asperger's disorder. While this is nothing new, I only learned that fact much later in life - after W and I were married. I have difficulty identifying and processing my emotions. When we were dating, and when we were first married, this was not a problem, as we had hours and hours to discuss our points of view and to talk about our feelings. Once we had children, we no longer had that luxury, but I still had (have) difficulty understanding and expressing my feelings, which probably results in a disproportionate amount of my emotional life being converted to anger which is poorly controlled. Furthermore, when we first got married, we were surrounded by a group of very supportive friends who, while none were aware of the label "Aspergers" (I wasn't even aware of it myself), understood my quirks, and served as a great support for me and for our marriage.

I must learn strategies to maintain control of my behavior when I am feeling intense emotions, so that instead of reacting I can identify my emotions and figure out what to do with them. I must also begin surrounding myself with others who are positive toward me, as it was unfair in the first place for me to expect all of my acceptance and emotional support to come from W.
For a first step, I am going through a self-help course designed to help me to relieve stress immediately as it arises, and then become more aware of my emotions. I am also seeing an IC, but I may need to see someone else, as she seems only focused on reminding me that our M problems are not ONLY my fault, and sometimes has trouble hearing my goals.

Most of all, I must make these changes for myself. If I make them to try to fix our M, or to make W happy, they will only be short term. Instead of working changes, I must become changed. If I do, then these changes will be advantageous to me whether or not we reconcile.

These are some initial goals. I hope that writing them down will help me to keep myself accountable. I also count on the community here (and especially Bond) to let me know if I am missing the obvious.


Think about it...if you met a potential mate who was nothing but a bundle of needs, would YOU be attracted to them?
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4

Moderated by  Cadet, DnJ, job, Michele Weiner-Davis 

Link Copied to Clipboard