Albuquerque living part 3:Strapped in for the ride

[Albuquerque]

Time to start a new thread as it appears I've moved into yet another phase.
Here are the links to my previous threads

Thread 1
Thread 2
Thread 3

As I mentioned, H has had a "wall" up for the last month or so. Despite saying he was "back home" prior to leaving for the conference, he returned back to town and went to his apartment. The evening after he was back, he came over to the house to hear about our Las Vegas trip and to go out to dinner. Once again, he seemed a bit standoff-ish but was still chatty and polite. Dinner was good but again, he's gone back to being hands-off with me. After dinner, he went back to his place.

I chatted with him a bit on IM later and somehow I managed to get to the topic of honesty. I told him that all I ask is for him to be honest with me. And the fact that he used the excuse of "it being late" to go back to his apartment was ridiculous. I said, if you wanted to be alone, just say so. He said OK, but it WAS late. I said "I call BS because that's NEVER been an issue". He didn't have much to say after that.

That night, I checked my FB right before I went to bed. Saw that H had posted that he was taking a FB hiatus #2. He posted that he wasn't deactivating this time but wouldn't be on it for awhile. I found that surprising since I had just been IMing with him and he hadn't mentioned it. I texted him and asked him why he was doing that. He said that he just needed a break and that he felt like he had taken many steps backwards. I left it at that. However, when I went to his page to see who responded to him, I discovered that the post that x-OW had made about us losing our cat was gone. I found that odd. It didn't take long for me to realize that I had been blocked on FB by the x-OW.

Despite my overwhelming need to know why, I delayed bringing it up until I felt the time was right. That time was about 24 hours later. I called H and asked straight up, "why would x-OW block me on FB". His answer was "I asked her to". I asked why. He said, because you wouldn't block her and I knew that her posts bothered you. And he said that that was a big part of why he was taking another hiatus. Because he didn't need that drama.

I explained that I was NOT bothered by the fact that x-OW posts. I was bothered by the fact that x-OW posts indicate to me that she has NOT given up and that his refusal to defriend her indicates that he's OK with that. Unfortunately, this led back into the discussion about the fact that he didn't feel he did anything wrong. He had told me the marriage was over way before he started anything up. He felt that defriending her was, in a way, an admission of guilt...that he did something wrong. I tried to explain that I really did understand that he didn't consider it "an affair". I get that. We have a difference of opinion but I really do GET IT. HOWEVER. I told him that if he was serious about working it out with me, he cannot continue to text, email and FB a woman who still WANTS TO MARRY HIM. During the conversation, I emphasized that last part several times. After a few times, he actually asked me to stop using that terminology. I asked why since it was accurate was it not? He could not deny it was accurate.

The conversation went on for awhile. Basically he said that the post conference weekend was truly awful for him and he was reevaluating all his decisions over the last few months. He feels like if he's being honest, he thinks he's made the decision to come back out of a feeling of responsibility for D, not me. He said that if D wasn't in the picture he thinks he'd be gone. He then recounted the first trip he took with x-OW and said that he was the happiest he had ever been in his life those few days. It was when he returned home and had to deal the the realities of D and possibilities of visitation, divorce, etc, that he had great anxiety, depression, stress, etc. And that he basically sees his choices as do the right thing by D and be unhappy, or leave D to go and be happy.

I told him that I was genuinely happy to hear that he had found some happiness. That's all I want for him. But if he wants my honest assessment (which he was kind of asking for), I felt that the feelings of unbridled happiness was not surprising given the fact that it was a new relationship, on vacation with no responsibilities. And while I agree that he may have been happy in that relationship for quite some time, I felt that eventually he would become unhappy because at his core, he is not happy. And to search out happiness from external sources cannot work.

Despite my gentle but persistent attempts to drive that message home, he just doesn't "buy it" or get it. I realized during the conversation that he's clearly regressed quite a bit. He clearly sees nothing good about me and he had supposedly never been happy in the marriage. He also kind of made the assertion that once D was born, he was kind of "trapped". That was a new one. I reiterated over and over that all I want is for him to find happiness. But the only way that will happen is if he works on himself. He kept trying to force me to answer hypothetical questions about whether I would rather take a dream job and leave D or stay with D but have a crappy job. I told him that I reject the proposition since things are rarely that black and white. HOWEVER, given the options, I would of course pick D. He then kind of told me that his options are basically a combination of 4 things. Either be happy with D, be happy without D, be unhappy with D, be unhappy without D. In the "be unhappy with D" option, he proposed it as being at home, doing family stuff, being the dad he needs to be, but he was still unhappy and unfulfilled. I told him that I was taking that option off the table because I'm not OK with that. He said that I don't factor into that particular hypothetical. I said I most certainly do because I'm not going to live in the same house and sleep in the same bed and pretend like I have a happy husband when you're actually miserable. I said, I DO actually have a part in this because what's going to happen once she goes off to college in 4 years. You finally leave? That doesn't work out so well for me. I think he saw my point.

The conversation eventually fizzled. Partly because it was really really late and partly because he had already had vodka and during the conversation, had to take Xanax due to an anxiety attack. I ended by telling him that although I may sound repetitive, all I would recommend is that he work on himself. Otherwise, no matter what choice he makes, I fear he will still end up unhappy.

So today I was pretty introspective. I feel like I'm back to the way things were back in October. He hasn't gone back to x-OW but clearly he's still conflicted. Therefore, my mindset and actions must go back to the way things were. His MLC is worse than it's been for many months. He's back to asking me the same questions numerous times and having no idea he's doing it. He's back to wanting no physical contact. He's gone back to not asking me about my day. He's back to forgetting to lock the door when he leaves the house.

H had to pick up D this afternoon from school since I had to work. Given our conversation, I kind of expected him to either leave before I got home, or leave as soon as I got home. To my surprise, he not only stayed once I got home, but had made grilled salmon, mashed potatoes, and some biscuits (he was always a fabulous cook). He acted upbeat and we had a nice dinner. He helped clean up after dinner but then said he needed to go. We chatted a bit on IM after that and he got into a very sad mode as he sent me picture after picture of our recently deceased cat. It brought both of us to tears.

I'm not quite sure what to make about his relatively upbeat behavior today. I worry that he may be trying the "do right by D and damn it all if I'm unhappy" approach. But I'm going to give him the time and space he needs to figure out his plans. Unfortunately, I'm sure there are plenty of more ups and downs in both our futures. I'm strapped in and as ready as I can be.

[punkin]

WOW! All I can say is Dark and Detached is Supremely Better!
((HUGS))

[irishblessings]

I agree with Punkin. You need to take care of yourself and dark is best. I'm sorry for these changes.

[Mila]

Alb - I just thought that I'll re-post the Stages of MLC by HB...sometimes it helps to re-read it

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...ite_id=1#import

As I was reading through your posts I thought that your H could be moving from re-play to the next stage

[AntoniaB]

Wow, Alb, all I can say is that this shows that even if the affair ends, things don't just go back to they way they were. It sort of shows that the affair again is just a symptom of a larger problem.

I think for a long time I was envying people on the forums who were in a place where the affair was over and they were piecing, but after reading this, I don't. I think it must be very difficult for you. I have you in my thoughts. Your journey is still very difficult but at least you're in a position where you're strong and have skills to deal with his confusion.

[Albuquerque]

Thanks SO much for reposting that Mila. I remember reading it with so much interest when I first found this site. Like all the newbies, I was searching for answers and wanted a "timeline" and tried to guess which phase my H was in. Over time, I realized, that in a way, it didn't matter. My actions needed to be the same. I needed to focus on me. And I did so to the best of my abilities.

Once my H peeked out of the tunnel last fall though, I admit I had forgotten about these phases. In my mind, we were either going to end, or go through piecing. But in reality, he's TOTALLY not done with his MLC and I've seen this all along.

"they become forgetful, irritable, want to be left alone, somewhat argumentative, sometimes unresponsive-want to take long drives, sit looking out the window-their silences are long and painful, as they don't want to talk about it preferring instead to think and brood. "

This describes my H's mental state right now to a tee. I was kind of kicking myself yesterday because during my conversation with him, in essence, I was trying to "fix him". The problem is that he often comes to me and pretty much asks my opinion about things. He's seen and admires my growth and we've had a lot of talks about it. So I am walking a fine line between giving him the feedback he wants from me, and trying to not "fix him". Fortunately, the only real advice I have for him is for him to work on himself. I think that was kind of frustrating him during our conversation because in his mind, he needs to DO something. Some type of action. Make some type of decision.

His apartment lease will need to be renewed in March. I'm sure that's causing him some anxiety. He originally stated he'd keep his apartment till the lease was up then move everything back. I think at this point, he feels he still needs his space and he's probably right. I was looking forward to the financial benefit of NOT having two places, but his health is more important. I'm not going to even ask him what his plan is.

Antonia, thanks so much for stopping by my thread. I do think this phase is more difficult. When the MLCer is gone, you have time to yourself. To work on yourself. To live your own life and to detach from the negativity of the MLCer. When they try to come back, you HAVE to open yourself back up a bit in order to start to reconnect. That leaves you open to being more emotional, having hurt feelings, lashing out, jealousy, etc. It's why the work done initially detaching is so important. Because if and when they try to come back, you are able to withstand SO much more. There's no way, a year ago, I could have heard the things my H said to me, and had the type of conversation we had, without me bursting into tears, screaming in anger, becoming horrendously jealous, or spiraling into despair. Yet, I had the conversation with virtually none of that. In fact, since then, I haven't really had any major breakdown. Has it affected me? Sure. Big time. But I feel I can handle it better. It's given me some nightmares already. Something I haven't experienced since I first found out about the OW. But I'm doing OK and refocusing myself. I don't know what the future holds but I will take it one day at a time.

Thanks again Mila, for the reminder. It's invigorated me in a way. Sometimes, when you're smack in the middle of something, you can't see the forest for the trees. Thanks for reminding me about the forest.

[angel61]

Hi Alb,

I've been in the same discussion with my H as you regarding D12. I am of the opinion that equal priority and weight should be given to the kids welfare in a sitch, and this is not just between W and H. We also discussed situations, such as:

1. H leaves, goes finds happiness. Me and D unhappy.
2. H stays, me and H unhappy but trying to be friends, D would be OK, or maybe, he leaves, decides he is not happy, comes back.
I did tell him that for me, if the situation were reversed, I would chose #2. I felt that if someone in the family deserved to be happy, it would be D12.

A little background: I know my parents stayed together for the sake of us kids. But we never felt guilty; kids are selfish beings and what matters to them is their safety and stability. But there were a couple of times my mom left for a few days, leaving us with my dad, and me my sister felt awful. Thinking back to those times, I realize that is why I always felt a litte more insecure with my mom's love, and have a special spot for my dad.

I shared my experiences with my H.

He seemed very thoughtful after our talk (this was last Sunday), and just like your H, the next day after picking up D from school seemed nice and cooked dinner.

Its really hard for us not to try to fix them, I realize too and have been told about what I did by the vets, telling me I am fostering the "parent child " relationsip. That I should teach more by example. At least, in our cases, our H's see how much we have grown and tell us about it, and even ask why (mine too, just like yours!) That means to say we are being observed!

Just hang in there, DB, show examples of how you are able to grow.... and think of the little baby steps...

[Albuquerque]

Hard to believe it's been so long since I've posted an update. I guess the main reason is that not much has happened. H remains in essentially the same mental state. He's friendly and polite but appears to have absolutely no interest in developing any type of relationship with me other than continuing to do things as a family for D. He hasn't really said anything more since our major talk a few weeks back. I've really just let him be. He still maintains very regular communication with me and is texting me, emailing me, calling me etc. But this isn't that different than when he was involved with OW. I can't rule out that he's not getting back with her. In fact, while at an outing with him and D today, he insisted on taking a picture of something that could really only interest the OW. He recently visited a new physician who changed up a lot of his meds. She's trying to get him off his reliance on Xanax and doubled his AD dose. It will be awhile before any effect will be noted.

I'm not really sure what to think about things anymore. I told him on our last deep conversation that I'm not OK with being a default wife for the sake of D. While I think a 2 parent family is best, I'm not going to pretend to have a marriage I don't have. And thus far, it looks like things are stuck in that mode. But again, I realize this is a very very long process and he is most definitely NOT himself and he knows it. He's still working things out in his mind and still working on his health. So my becoming frustrated is only because things aren't moving (in ANY direction) as fast as I'd want them to move. I dislike vagueness and that is really the only thing I have for sure.

All that being said, the tone of our relationship (if you can call it that) IS different in some ways than it was when he was with OW. He's not quite as detached from me and in fact, when he heard that D felt that I don't do anything good for her while H is her ideal parent (which stung to hear), H came over right away, cooked dinner for us both, and ripped D a new one. He told her that she should be totally grateful for me because "She cooks for you every night. I don't. She takes you to school every day. I don't. She takes you out and does fun things every weekend. I don't!" It was a nice gesture of him. Unfortunately, D is battling her own depression which makes some days particularly difficult.

I continue to take one day at a time.

[SIMoscow]

[i]he often comes to me and pretty much asks my opinion about things. He's seen and admires my growth and we've had a lot of talks about it. So I am walking a fine line between giving him the feedback he wants from me, and trying to not "fix him".
These could be my words. I don't actually say that he should work on himself, though, as that would not go down well with my WAH, but I do try and encourage him to do things, constructive things, that will make him feel better about himself and life.
Interestingly my WAH's lease runs out soon too. We had talked about him moving back in - but mainly for practical reasons and the friendship that remains. I know deep down that we both need more time in separate residences though. I don't know if he will ever come back. Like your spouse mine still asks for my advice on many things.

[angel61]

I know how frustrating it is. I am in exactly the same boat as you - EA "done" but not sure, my H also takes pictures of things I know interests her (funny how they all act the same way.... technology brings on a different spin to A's... sometimes I abslutely hate the iPhone)

Glad your h defended you .... it means he still does care.

But it will come and go - he will be detached, then start coming close again, pursuing, then cycling away, then back.