It's been a long time since I posted but I thought I would write a bit of an update. It actually makes me feel horrible to come back to this board as I have spent hours at it in a state of utter despair - many times this year.
My wife and I have been back under the same roof now for 19 weeks. As far as I can tell there has been no contact with OM for 7 weeks although it's impossible to verify this 100%, and it looks like it was his idea. He has removed W as a contact on Skype and on Flickr. This traumatised my W and put her in a state of mourning for the first 4 weeks and she still isn't herself although I see flashes of my old W. When I see my old wife (how I remember her) I feel both happy and sad.
W wanted me to remove all of the emails she sent to me whilst we were separated as they are just a "reminder of that time" when she was confused and bewildered - and it "wasn't a good place to be". I did remove them but I have copies elsewhere.
This marriage is very, very far from being out of the woods. There are still many things which must improve and I am far from certain whether we have a future together. She still refuses to apologize for the lies, hypocrisy and deceit and says I "deserve it" and she's told me to "get over it" - something I used to say to her if I did something she found objectionable.
Positives We spend virtually all of our free time together
We have breakfast together in the city before work - several times per week
We have regular and passionate sex
W is smiling much more now
W calls and emails me at work during the day
We have taken a trip together into the Outback and are going paragliding together in the next few days.
We have plans for November this year for some volunteer work, and have discussed what she might like for Christmas
We volunteered at a film festival together last month
I am present at all of the family functions and cards are signed from "W and GH31" - I have good handwriting so she gets me to make them
We are chatting all the time - what John Gottman would call "turning toward".
We travel to work together and engage in frequent playful banter
I have seen W try her wedding ring on twice now. Today has been the second time I've seen her wearing it and she says she does so "for balance" (???). She wears her engagement ring on her left hand and her wedding ring on her right (it's our culture).
We are working on written work for her course together.
Negatives No ILY
We are still in separate rooms - although we have sex regularly and she sleeps in my bed one or two nights per week. She says she's "not ready" to move back in yet and wants to feel "passionately in love again" before she does.
Occasional potshots at me - most of the time I'm able to deal with these in a fun way
There are still pictures of OM in our laptop computer and I know that she has a few prints also. I have asked her to get rid of them and she's said "I'm not ready to yet" and things like "I can't pretend that it didn't happen" etc. She understands (or appears to) that they are deeply offensive to me but I don't think she cares enough yet to do anything about it.
The big one - I have seen her google OM a few times and this bothers me terribly. I've asked her about it too but the reply has simply been "I'm curious. I am a curious person - just deal with it". She is adamant that there is "no correspondence" and she has not said the deranged things that she did when there was correspondence. However, this is a big problem for me - I have hardly brought this up with her but when I did that time I really didn't care about the outcome or whether it was good DBing - I was just sick of it. I have given her the benefit of the doubt before and been deceived so my deception radar is extremely finely tuned.
So...that's my situation as it is currently. I wish I could say that things are busted but that would be very premature and as far as I am concerned there's a long, long way to go. W does say that we have "moved on from before" but I am not so sure. My goal right now is that we fall in love again; I am religiously making notes of what works and what doesn't work and sticking to it (it's hard and I backslide every now and again). She took my hand yesterday as we were walking and she's put her wedding ring on today, but there are still things that give me the jitters. She asked me if I was going to take a job in Germany that I have been offered but I don't feel at all ready for that yet, and she's said things like "maybe you shouldn't have returned to Australia in April" and a few other remarks. She has said twice that divorce is probably not an option for us - but again, I am taking it one day at a time.
It's hard - very hard.
My DB journey is far from over. I'll update again at some stage - I hope that this works out for us, I really do but I am far from certain and I sense that W is also very tentative. I will still not go into "Piecing" as W hasn't categorically stated that she wants to stay in the M.
Take care all of you - stay with DBing. It has been a very, very long and excruciating road so far but I don't regret doing this. So far I have almost given up several times and have suffered some severe psychological torment but try to hang in there if at all possible.
best,
GH31
Me: 46 W: 46 T: 23 M: 20 DS12 DD11 DS5
W left: 01/28/08 Discovered OM: 02/26/08 W back for 9 days: 04/08 W returned 05/21/08 EA/PA - 01/08-07/09 W's MLC 2008-2014 (realised this much later)
Wow- congratulations on the steps forward you have taken. They are huge, even if you still have a long way to go.
Hopefully your wife will at some point realize that you are the prize! It sounds like she is in mourning for her lost relationship- and I am sure you are scared for what would happen in OM came back into her life. I would be too.
But- at least she is joining you in activities- maybe this is her way of acting "as if". And she is trying on the rings.
Take care of yourself! And her- it sounds like she needs it right now.
Me-36 H-30 T-7yr, M-3yr DivorceBusting Saved my marriage! sep 6-08 to 12-08. Together again, things are good!
W wanted me to remove all of the emails she sent to me whilst we were separated as they are just a "reminder of that time" when she was confused and bewildered - and it "wasn't a good place to be". I did remove them but I have copies elsewhere.
GH31
Mmmmmm? That seems very odd. I don't know the divorce laws in Austrailia, but it seems like your wife wanted you to delete "evidence" that might be incriminating against her in court. This evidence can point to her as the reason your marriage failed.
I have thought the very same thing myself and have confronted W about it. In Australia we have a "no fault" system. The parties have to be separated for a year and then it can be filed; there is no need to cite causes like mental cruelty, incompatibility, adultery etc and since we don't have a house or children it would all be relatively clean.
I asked her why she wanted them deleted and she said she's "embarrassed" that she wrote stuff like that from a state of utter bewilderment and confusion and it's just a "reminder of that time". She thinks/suspects that I may have given my father some copies of the emails and that I may have some stashed away somewhere.
It's a tough one. I think I am getting a lot better at reading her but you never know. When you've had your spouse put you through something like this you can smell lies/deception/fog from quite far away.
She's been saying things like I need to "woo" her and to "start her heart again". She's becoming more and more receptive when I do nice things for her and as long as there is progress, I guess my patience is infinite. But, I am still very reluctant to have any expectations.
Me: 46 W: 46 T: 23 M: 20 DS12 DD11 DS5
W left: 01/28/08 Discovered OM: 02/26/08 W back for 9 days: 04/08 W returned 05/21/08 EA/PA - 01/08-07/09 W's MLC 2008-2014 (realised this much later)
If this is the case and she wants to start over, and you want to start over, I would delete every copy. This is not about who is right or wrong, it is about your relationship with your wife and rebuilding it. It would be bad if you guys fixed this thing, then 2 years down the road this emails popped up somewhere. She would claim that you were not over "it" and you have not truly forgiven her. Also, YOU don't want to read these emails 2 years form now either because if you do want to make the marriage work you have to have forgiveness in your heart.
It could honestly be that she's embarrassed. When she fully gets out of the fog that she's in, and OM is finally behind her, I think you'll slip nicely into a regular marriage. It takes time GH. She has things to work through. Are you still being confident in yourself? Being comfortable that you'll be okay? Then let it play out.
Have you been to counseling with your wife? I do think that you need to continue to take steps to divorceproof your marriage. Also, if you haven't read the 5 love languages, I'd recommend that you do so, and start speaking frequently in her love language. When things seem reasonably good (although not perfect) like now, it's a good time to keep showing her love...backrubs, gifts, just because nice gestures, compliments, acts of service, showing that you value her.
P.S. I agree with Brandon's comment above.
You cannot be lonely if you like the person you're alone with. Dr. Wayne Dyer
Thanks very much for your input. I have read the Five Love Languages book twice and am doing nice gestures for her (gifts) frequently. Receiving gifts is definitely her LL and I've been making a note of what she likes.
I've bought her flowers frequently, a few clothes the weekend before last when we were out shopping. I have observed that she loves me taking her out and about, being confident etc. so I have been doing this. On that afternoon when we got home we had very passionate sex. However, when we went for a walk afterwards she seemed a little guarded saying things like "I want to feel passionately in love before I move back into the room" etc.
Last night she slept in my bed and I gave her about an hour of massages and caresses. Then this morning as we left for Sydney I noticed that she had put her wedding ring on again. I playfully remarked about her looking "balanced" again and she said "it doesn't mean anything" - "don't got looking into things, I just like having a ring on both hands". I was hurt but didn't show it; I don't know whether it's serious, the demon of defence talking or joking - or just the mysterious way that women like to communicate with us guys sometimes. But the point is it's the third time I've seen her wear it in the last month or so and she wasn't doing it before. I would like to see this continue.
As for the confidence Phoenixdeux, as you can imagine it has been torn apart this year big time. I was once very confident and full of swagger - probably to a fault. I need to get this confidence back and am working at this. I know that my destiny is a happy one but I've never found it this hard to be confident and to do my job in sales.
This weekend we are chosing a birthday gift for W's sister and taking a trip to rural Australia to do some outdoor adventures. These things are good, but I wish I could feel more confident about this marriage.
Yesterday I read some journal entries from the days leading up to and immediately prior to separating and I was overcome with guilt for being such a neglectful, abusive and selfish husband back then. My W has put me through some unimaginable pain but for some reason I felt this crushing guilt.
Take care both of you.
GH31
Me: 46 W: 46 T: 23 M: 20 DS12 DD11 DS5
W left: 01/28/08 Discovered OM: 02/26/08 W back for 9 days: 04/08 W returned 05/21/08 EA/PA - 01/08-07/09 W's MLC 2008-2014 (realised this much later)
W is wearing her wedding ring today again. This is the first time in eight months that I have seen her wear it on 2 consecutive days. She has also been emailing me today at work in a chatty way and wants us to see a movie afterwards.
I would like to see this continue but am still keeping my expectations in check. There is simply too much pain, guilt and other horrible emotions to have any.
In keeping with her LL being gifts, I have been making her a box with her favourite colours on it and have put her name on it in gold. She knows I am making this box for her but has no idea how it will look when it's finished - she certainly doesn't know how I am personalising it.
W and I saw "the Duchess" last night at the cinema. The core theme is infidelity and affairs. Oddly, it was a real eye opener in how not to treat your wife and you can just see how As happen - what could ptoentially lead a woman to stray. I was very concerned going into the movie how I would react - two months ago we saw another film about infidelity and W sided with the persons straying - that absolutely crushed me but for whatever reason this time we were able to have a normal conversation about the film.
It's a real mixed cocktail of emotion that I am experiencing at the moment - a mixture of hope, fear, despair, rage, disbelief and guilt. I cannot believe what has happened this year as I contemplate the enormity of it all.
Last edited by GH31; 10/03/0802:38 AM.
Me: 46 W: 46 T: 23 M: 20 DS12 DD11 DS5
W left: 01/28/08 Discovered OM: 02/26/08 W back for 9 days: 04/08 W returned 05/21/08 EA/PA - 01/08-07/09 W's MLC 2008-2014 (realised this much later)
It all sounds like it is improving slowly, GH. It is hard to keep your mind in the present, and not let the past sneak up on you and make you sad. But moving away from the past is essential. So try not to look back.
It's good to hear from you again. I took W away this weekend for a road trip into the Australian countryside. We drove around and hung out like we've always done, and chatted about our 9 years together and W said some good things and some bad things, but that things had been "mostly good" between us. We had a great time but then yesterday morning guess who calls - OM, for the first time in 2 months.
I couldn't believe he had the nerve to do this as we were driving around so I called out to introduce myself.
W was surprised, and honest with me about the nature of the communication. OM emailed her saying that he's coming to Australia in November to do a tour and wanted to meet up because W and OM didn't have a "proper goodbye". W later emailed back saying that would be "fine" and then I asked her how appropriate she thought that would be. After some coughing, spluttering and other rubbish she agreed that it really wouldn't be appropriate. She said she feels like she "owes him" because he was "so good to her" and I said "how do you think that looks from where I am? It says to me that you couldn't give a damn about my feelings as long as you get to do what you want to do". She agreed that if any woman I had been romantically involved with wanted to do the same thing then it "wouldn't do at all". She doesn't like talking about this stuff and neither do I, but "no contact" means exactly that. I want this whole thing to be a sleeping dog and to let it lie.
W has agreed to email OM again stating that it won't be appropriate and that she has no intention of getting divorced. I will believe this when I see it and not before - W has agreed to show it me. She came into my bed last night and slept with me because she "felt bad" for me.
W can't bring herself to say she loves me at the moment. I honestly have no idea why she is even sticking around. She says things like "being without you is a really strange concept GH31, we are so close" and "losing you would be like losing a part of myself" and I feel the same, but this just won't do. Just as I thought we were beginning to make progress and view this episode as a "fog" or "haze" in the past tense, this happens. It has to end and it has to be W's decision - and I am not holding my breath.
best to you all,
GH31
Me: 46 W: 46 T: 23 M: 20 DS12 DD11 DS5
W left: 01/28/08 Discovered OM: 02/26/08 W back for 9 days: 04/08 W returned 05/21/08 EA/PA - 01/08-07/09 W's MLC 2008-2014 (realised this much later)
