CVA - Thread 2, Hold mode

[sandi2]

Hello CVA,

I was told by a friend to contact you, so I tried to rush through reading your posts to catch up on things. I don't know if you have read my stitch or not, but I came as close as anyone could get to a WAW without going out the door. I have been married 41+ years to the same man. I don't tell that to be discouraging, but to say that MLC or WAS can happen to anyone at any age. I never thought I could be going through MLC ....thought I was surely past midlife! But, whatever you want to call it...it happened to me. Just for the record...I'm not healed yet..ok? But, I am a lot better off than I was when I first wrote my first post on here a short time ago. It feels like months, but actually it was more "days" ago. But, I have been in a cram session of reading books, material, message boards, web sites, you name it and I've read it for the past month. Anyway, I was home after having surgery and have been at this computer or my head in a book 24/7.

Now, about a WAW that I almost became. Maybe every woman is not the same in these situations...I'm not a professional by no means, just tell you from experience....it is almost something inside of the W that she feels she has no control over. Her entire life feels out of control. She is consumed with unhappiness. She is mad at herself for being unhappy because she feels she must have made poor choices to be this unhappy in life. She is mad at her H for not making her happy...which of course, he can't, but she blames him anyway. She starts on a frantic search for happiness. So, because she is so unhappy in her marriage and in her home, she figures the first thing she has to do is escape. I chose that word on purpose, because she feels "trapped". She feels trapped by her own choices and by you and by life in general. She wants "out"!

I am going to tell you that you will receive excellent advice in Michelle's books, here on this board and also two books that I found extremely helpful that can be found on a website called womensinfidelity.com. You can purchase it and download it right then to read. It talks about a woman going through this stuff in 4 stages....it takes two books to tell it, but they are worth the money and the reading. It would be a world of wealth for you and your W...if she will read it. It helped me more than anything. I was already in stage 3, which was scary to realize, but when I found out what stage 4 was....no way did I want to live like that, so that is when I made a decision to stay in my marriage. Stage 3 is in "limbo" what to do or even what you want to do....remember I am talking from the woman's viewpoint here. If I read everything correctly about your stitch, your wife is in limbo now. She is riding the fence. Even if the two of you are not living in the same house, she may not know what she still wants to do about the M. (Like I said, I was reading pretty fast.)

May I please just tell you this....don't tell her you love her, don't tell her how much you miss her and the kids, don't offer to give her a back rub...or even to touch her in a half-hug. I'm not being mean sweetie, (btw, I can call you that because I'm an old woman...lol)but I tell you that because I know what she is feeling. And, the more you say those things and try to touch her...even in a "friendly" way...you are cutting off yourself..and you don't even realize it. Just because she may not say anything does not mean she is not rejecting the idea of it, be it your words or your touch. The sad thing is...she truly does not want to hurt you. I believe that with all my heart! That is why women don't say anything...or they will just nod their heads. If she did not care about you at all....she wouldn't hold back on how badly she hurt you! Men don't understand.......they simply do not understand how this is pressuring a woman. The ILY's, the sad looks, the lingering at the door, etc....it is putting guilt and pressure on the W. Maybe you will never see it as being that way, but remember men and women are vastly different in their thinking!

Okay, so you are already thinking, what can you do to change the situation? Only you can change. May I suggest that you get a life ASAP! The sooner she thinks that you might just possibly be happy without her?.....the more chances you have of her coming back to you. Crazy? Yes, but then that is females for ya! Sweetie, I am 60 years old.....have to keep telling myself that to believe it....but I have not seen human nature change in this department. Human beings want what they can't have. Plain, but true. If she thought for one minute that she couldn't have you or that you did not want her....it would get her attention! Am I telling you to be dishonest? No! Am I telling you to have an affair with OW? NO, NO, NO!!! Am I telling you to move on without her? Hummmmmmm..........maybe. What I am saying, is GET A LIFE. Plan your days as though she were not a part of your life. Don't neglect the children, but go ahead and fill your days and nights up with "life" for goodness sake. Stop showing her how pitiful you are. Stop trying to make her feel sorry for you. Don't get mad at me now. I'm telling you straight. You go on like you are carefree and happy...even if your heart is breaking inside...don't you dare let her know it. You stay so good-looking that you put Brad Pit to shame! Well...do the best you can on that one. But, you get the idea, don't you. Don't get too obvious, but just look good everytime you think there is a chance she might see you. Have a good attitude....but don't get stupid with it and become a clown. Make plans with the kids that don't include her. She wants space.....by God, give it to her! Being under the same roof all the time is not giving her space! Listen to me sweetie, please. When a woman needs space badly enough...she will get it regardless of the price...in most cases. I was just lucky enough that someone got through to me in time.

I know what you are thinking. You are worried about doing what I've said and then loosing her. What a gamble, huh? No, not really. What you've done so far....has it worked? You see, this is the only thing that will work.....if she is going to come back at all. But, I promise you one thing, you try to make her feel badly about what she's done to the M....you've lost her. If she wants to talk.....LISTEN TO HER...but that's all. Be her FRIEND....but that's all. BE NICE...but that's all. Never be sarcastic, rude, or judgmental......and especiall never be hateful. She probably saw the best side of you before she married you, didn't she? Well, I guess that is what I am telling you to do now...show her that side again. Only this time, for a while anyway, you will have to omit the romantic things, because she can't handle that. Oh she may accuse you of not being romantic enough when you were married, etc., but it's not the right time now. Cause her to "want" you again. You remember how to do that, don't you? In case you need a little tip...play "hard to get". But, also be prepared to be rejected when/if things don't go like you hope. Remember, go on "as if".

Okay, I think I've given you enough to chew on tonight. If we talk more, and I hope we can...you will learn that I kind of joke around...but I'm very serious about the information I've given you tonight. I am a lot older than your wife, but sweetie, females have a lot in common that you men just can't figure out...lol. So, trust me a little, okay?

Take care of yourself.

Sandi2

[Nomopo]

AWESOME SANDI2!!!

Good job!! That will help all of us, so thanks!

(((((S2)))))

Nomopo

[Gone Dancin']

Digesting...

Still digesting...

Ugh -- this is some thick stuff...

digesting...

[NDDT]

Wow Sandi, that is some very helpful insight. Package it in a 2x4 and whack me with it about once every other day for awhile.

[Heimlich]

Holy crap! My ample-though-decreasing gut was telling me this about my W for about 2 months. Now, if I could just get me head to listen.

THANK YOU Sandi. I believe I'll be printing this out and reading daily.

BD

[Not Much Left]

Thanks Sandi
I understand.
THanks for reading / writing all of it.

One question, fi my W never really made ANY efforts to initiate anything from just talking (telling me her hopes / fears) through to the obvious (sex) why would I ever think (after having been through this exact scenario 3 other times) that she would ever get the balls to do anything to move it forward now?

Your insight to that would be greatly appreciated.

CVA

[Nomopo]

CVA - thinking on your sitch a little more. Let me see if I can get some of my ideas out by responding to your and Sandi's posts.

Yes, in the beginning she was able to say "no" dont come over tonight and that mindset seemed to change recently after her getting back from outing w/ her BFF. We have no formal arrangement like you do so...

But expecting her to say no is putting pressure on her. It's like asking her to tell you to get out everyday. That's hard, and as Sandi said she probably doesn't want to hurt you. Now it is a fine line, because you need to be in your kids' lives, and if I were you I would put that first. Try to talk or see your kids every day, or almost every day. But don't use it as a way to see your wife. See or call them when she is not home (is that ever the case?). plan activities with them without her, if you can. Your kids may need some one on one time. Maybe you can do date nights with each of them. Then the non-invite to her won't be so obvious, and it would probably be real good for you and the kids.

Ok, this is where I am monitoring. The 1st 3 mos, NO WAY was she saying, "good to see you too" and yes I am initiating. I will back off and monitor.

Well, it's good to monitor, and I did this too in that it is tempting to be upbeat and positive, and then want to latch on to them responding in kind. But we really need to give them the opportunity to do, I think, is initiate.

I initiate, I will go back to "hi" and that is what I will get back. 17 yrs of exactly that. Unless I say something, I get (have always gotten) the minimum.

I know you don't think your W is up to the task of initiating. Go read Michele's DB strategy (Step 5) on Do Nothing. This may be something you have to do. And she may do nothing too for months. But it may be that she steps up to the task, and makes an affirmative move towards and for you down the road. Isn't this what you really need to get the M/R you want anyway?

[quote=CVA]Yep, asked me to leave the same day as the bomb. No choice, get out or I take the kids to Dallas and you get out while I am gone. No room for discussion. I guess my definition of "space" has been significantly impacted by being out of town "on purpose" multiple days mixed w/ wanting to see the kids. Again, she was able to and I ENCOURAGED HER to tell me NO if she is uncomfortable with something. I told her I am too dense to understand yes or a nod may mean no, just say NO. That seemed to work so I assume at this pt she is still comfortable saying NO to me but may be wrong.

The being out of town is a good way to give her space, but I think giving her more space while you're in town, and GALing, will be good for your sitch in multiple ways. Putting the burden on her to say no is just that - a burden (eg, pressure). She may still feel trapped, control, etc. Don't assume she is comfortable saying no - see if she will say "yes, I want you." Of course, have a long-term vision. This is not a short-term goal. This may not happen for months. Set some one- and two-week goals too.

[quote=CVA]She has actually told me to be around (asked). If I dont say anything, I risk not seeing the kids for a while given I have been going out of town a lot. Just trying to "strategically" position my being there when I am not out. I will think about this one. There is a fine line between controlling and trying to make things happen in a reverse sense a la DBing. Yes?

Yes, it is a fine line. And I crossed it too, I think, and need to pull back. I also would not hesitate at all to give your kids exactly what they need from their dad. If that requires you to be at athe house some, so be it. But just don't kid yourself about which is which. It is an easy trap to fall into because we DO want to be around our wives all the time, At least I do.

Ummm, not sure, we just talk about going and, you know, it just is assumed. Are you saying bow out if it assumed I will be there? If kids want me there, in the past I have said, "I will take them, you can go if you would like" with movies and dinners, she has always said "no, I want to go".

I'm not saying bow out. I'm saying if W makes plans with kids, and you get wind of it, don't invite yourself. If you and kids plan to go to the movies, don't hide it from W but don't go out of your way to invite her. And if it does come up, handle it like you suggested in tghe last sentence.

Maybe you and W should explore a sharing schedule with the kids (eg, alterbate weekends for primary responsibility (at least in the days). Just thinking out loud.

I guess the only comment after all those fantastic observations is this, my W is so "non assertive" with me, if I had done nothing in terms of some of things above, we would be absolutely nowhere. Hard to explain, but she may be the most non-assertive person (removed) I have ever known.

See my comments above on the Do Nothing strategy. I know it's hard, but you may have to give her the opportunity to rise to the occassion (and realize it likely will be months before she does). For you to really achieve the R you want and deserve, don't you think you need her to step up and affirmatively decide she wants you (as opposed to being a default because she can't make any decision)? (BTW, doesn't this non-assertiveness undercut your earlier strategy of relying on her to say "no, don't be around"?)

One question, fi my W never really made ANY efforts to initiate anything from just talking (telling me her hopes / fears) through to the obvious (sex) why would I ever think (after having been through this exact scenario 3 other times) that she would ever get the balls to do anything to move it forward now?

Similarly, she might not. Ever. But she might. Why not give her til say Jan. 1st to see if she does. If she is so non-assertive, do you think she will actually move things the other way (towards a D) between now and then? One other thought - recognize that your efforts to control her (by initiating greetings, back rubs, contact, etc.) are driven by your fear that she won't affirmatively choose you. Trying to get those emotional needs met/satisfied/placated need to give way to getting your R back to healthy (but that is scary stuff, I know).

Those are just my thoughts CVA. There is no one answer fits all sitches. You need to think on this and decide what is best for your goals. Take some time to analyze it. Talk to your DB coach, your C and your friends here.

Now, about Sandi's comments:

it is almost something inside of the W that she feels she has no control over. Her entire life feels out of control. She is consumed with unhappiness. She is mad at herself for being unhappy because she feels she must have made poor choices to be this unhappy in life. She is mad at her H for not making her happy...which of course, he can't, but she blames him anyway. She starts on a frantic search for happiness. So, because she is so unhappy in her marriage and in her home, she figures the first thing she has to do is escape. I chose that word on purpose, because she feels "trapped". She feels trapped by her own choices and by you and by life in general. She wants "out"!

Some of this rings true in my sitch (and the rest could be true as well). My W said she unhappy most of the time. My CIL said W was very angry at me. And W told my IC in their first meeting about 2.5 months ago that she felt trapped. That's when C started to tellme she thought a S was necessary to any chance of a reconciliation. She wanted out, and I had to let her go.

and also two books that I found extremely helpful that can be found on a website called womensinfidelity.com. You can purchase it and download it right then to read. It talks about a woman going through this stuff in 4 stages....it takes two books to tell it, but they are worth the money and the reading. It would be a world of wealth for you and your W...if she will read it. It helped me more than anything.

Sandi, are these books about MLC particularly?

May I please just tell you this....don't tell her you love her, don't tell her how much you miss her and the kids, don't offer to give her a back rub...or even to touch her in a half-hug. I'm not being mean sweetie, (btw, I can call you that because I'm an old woman...lol)but I tell you that because I know what she is feeling. And, the more you say those things and try to touch her...even in a "friendly" way...you are cutting off yourself..and you don't even realize it. Just because she may not say anything does not mean she is not rejecting the idea of it, be it your words or your touch. The sad thing is...she truly does not want to hurt you. I believe that with all my heart! That is why women don't say anything...or they will just nod their heads. If she did not care about you at all....she wouldn't hold back on how badly she hurt you! Men don't understand.......they simply do not understand how this is pressuring a woman. The ILY's, the sad looks, the lingering at the door, etc....it is putting guilt and pressure on the W. Maybe you will never see it as being that way, but remember men and women are vastly different in their thinking!

I can add to this that post-my awakening and pre-DBing I was determined to show W I understood that I had not made her feel loved. I did all sorts of things to prove my love, including being very affectionate. She never really shut me down, but she didn't exactly reciprocate. Later when we talked about it, she said yes it made her feel pressured, and trapped.

Okay, so you are already thinking, what can you do to change the situation? Only you can change. May I suggest that you get a life ASAP!

We all need to keep focusing on us. We so want to influence the ultimate outcome, and we can do so by changing us and doing little, subtle things in our interactions with our WASs, but we can't do as much as we'd like to think (and trying to do too much can hurt I think).

The sooner she thinks that you might just possibly be happy without her?.....the more chances you have of her coming back to you. Crazy? Yes, but then that is females for ya! Sweetie, I am 60 years old.....have to keep telling myself that to believe it....but I have not seen human nature change in this department. Human beings want what they can't have. Plain, but true. If she thought for one minute that she couldn't have you or that you did not want her....it would get her attention! Am I telling you to be dishonest? No! Am I telling you to have an affair with OW? NO, NO, NO!!! Am I telling you to move on without her? Hummmmmmm..........maybe. What I am saying, is GET A LIFE. Plan your days as though she were not a part of your life. Don't neglect the children, but go ahead and fill your days and nights up with "life" for goodness sake. Stop showing her how pitiful you are. Stop trying to make her feel sorry for you. Don't get mad at me now. I'm telling you straight. You go on like you are carefree and happy...even if your heart is breaking inside...don't you dare let her know it. You stay so good-looking that you put Brad Pit to shame! Well...do the best you can on that one. But, you get the idea, don't you. Don't get too obvious, but just look good everytime you think there is a chance she might see you. Have a good attitude....but don't get stupid with it and become a clown.

This is hard for me. Shwoing my W that I can/will be happy without her is probably what I have been most unsuccessful with so far. I think I need this to pick up. It's scary to have them think you have moved on, I guess because we're afraid they may say "Good. Finally." But I think if there is a chance of saving our marriages, this move will make it more likely to happen and also to happen more quickly.

Make plans with the kids that don't include her. She wants space.....by God, give it to her! Being under the same roof all the time is not giving her space! Listen to me sweetie, please. When a woman needs space badly enough...she will get it regardless of the price...in most cases. I was just lucky enough that someone got through to me in time.

This kind of sums it all up for both of us.

I know what you are thinking. You are worried about doing what I've said and then loosing her. What a gamble, huh? No, not really. What you've done so far....has it worked? You see, this is the only thing that will work.....if she is going to come back at all. But, I promise you one thing, you try to make her feel badly about what she's done to the M....you've lost her.[/quot]

Wise words, I think. Just like Michele says, and confirmed by multiple WAWs (sandi, WAW1978, Sunny, sad2be, and other WAWs whose words are posted in the Advice for Newcomers forums.

[quote=sandi2]If she wants to talk.....LISTEN TO HER...but that's all. Be her FRIEND....but that's all. BE NICE...but that's all. Never be sarcastic, rude, or judgmental......and especiall never be hateful. She probably saw the best side of you before she married you, didn't she? Well, I guess that is what I am telling you to do now...show her that side again. Only this time, for a while anyway, you will have to omit the romantic things, because she can't handle that. Oh she may accuse you of not being romantic enough when you were married, etc., but it's not the right time now. Cause her to "want" you again. You remember how to do that, don't you? In case you need a little tip...play "hard to get". But, also be prepared to be rejected when/if things don't go like you hope. Remember, go on "as if".

Here's our road map! Thanks again Sandi!

Hope it helps Buddy. Take this next week to think about it, and let's keep talking through it.

Nomopo

[sandi2]

Hi CVA,

I tried to go back over some of your thread but I'm a little confused about your stitch right now. But, to try to answer you question about your W, it sounds like her personality type is very different from yours...and probably mine...so it makes it hard to understand people different from us. My H is very differnt from me. Like your W, he never stated a conversation about serious stuff or he would not respond to me when I tried to talk about our R in the first decades of our M. He would stare at the tv while I tried to talk. I know how that affected me after so many years of that. I began to give up on the "talks" and to protect my feelings...I started putting up walls.

I don't want to hurt your feelings, but you have admitted yourself, wheather you realize it or not....you are a "controlling" type. I am too. So, with that said, I know your frustration, okay? I am impatient and I am a "take charge" type of person, so it is very, very hard to do nothing and wait it out. But, sweetie, that is what you are going to have to do.

Stop asking her how the C session went! You are tearing everything down each time you do that! Don't ask the C what she said because if the C is what he should be...he won't tell you anything she confided in him. You wouldn't want him to tell her what you confided in him. Stop analyzing every word that is said. You will go crazy!

You need to stop pushing her to see the C, to talk to the C. If she is anything like my H, "talking" about her feelings and getting it all "out"....is as hard for her as it is for you and I to keep ours all bottled up! It took me decades to finally realize that! My H actually does not know how to put into words how he feels. That amazes someone like me that wants to talk about feelings all the time! But, even though I can't understand him being like that...I have to accept it. So will you. I know how hard and frustrating it is. You want to hear how everything went and she can't talk about it. Leave it alone.

I read some of WAW1978 thread and it sounded like mine. When I tried to tell my H that I did not want to give him false hope...he took it that I was being negative about working on the M. But listen to me very closely....from what I have read (which is a lot, believe me) and knowing how my H is in our R & M, ........just a "smile" from the WAS can be interpreted by the LBS as "hope". That is why we WAW/WAS have to be so careful and not be too nice...you will think everything is going to be fine...that it is "fixed". If you have read my thread, you saw where just by laying my head on my H shoulder in a time of emotional break-down over finances....he took it as a "sign"! My God! I just needed his support for a few minutes. I needed him to be my friend. I would have laid my head on anyone's shoulder at the time.

So, the rest of the night, I had to keep my distance because he was so excited about the "breakthrough". Now he never said those words.....ok? But, his attitude did. I thought...yep, he's getting false hopes here. He comes in and kisses me on my shoulder....which maybe he was just trying to give me a sense of "security", but I was not ready for any touchy-touchy stuff. Remember, I am still a "almost WAW".

So, back to your question. It sounds to me that it is not her nature to initiate conversations about serious stuff such as your R. You see, this is what you are wanting to hear from her. Plus, you want to know what she is thinking, feeling, etc., about everything...and she just can't do it. She may never be able to do it if it is not her nature. That is what you will have to accept. See, I'm not a passive person, so it is hard for me to know what her next move might be. However, being close to a WAW, I can just tell you to not push. You are pushing when you ask her anything about her feelings right now. To you, you are probably trying to show you care about her. But to her, you are pushing. If she doesn't want to tell you what happened at the C....she doesn't want to talk about feelings.....period. I'm sorry because I know it is driving you crazy. But, you have to drop it....or loose her forever.

I don't know about the back and forth business. It sounds to me like she was watching you for "changes" and didn't get the results she wanted.....left....came back....same disappointment.....left, etc. I kind of got lost on some of the stitch about that. However, if you are asking me if she will have the balls to initiate making a move toward reuniting the R or M.....well, sweetie, I don't know. But again, you are wanting to take control. Can you see that? You are afraid. You are afraid she won't do anything so you want to take the wheel and drive. You want to handle it for her. Can't do it sweetie.

Listen, if she wants to make the M work....she will figure it out (as far as making the move you are wondering about). In the meantime, you have got to think about YOU! You have got to be a "new and improved" you ....for YOU! And do it with the mindset that it is for good and that it is going to last with or without the possibility of getting back together with your W. Work on you and stop thinking about her every second of the day.

Apparently, she needs to see a "new and improved" you. And, she will need to watch this for some time to convence herself that it is the real thing and not some "show" or tactic you are using to get her back.....and then the same old, same old. That is what she is afraid of....repeating what has already been played out before. She can't handle that again. That is why I said it has to be for "real" and it has to be for "you"....period.

CVA, I know how hard it is because like I said, I am a "controlling person" by nature, but over the decades I've learned you just cannot control some situations or people. Neither can you change people...but you can change you. So, work on that. Oh, BTW, setting dates on the calendar and hoping you see certain things happen in the R by that time....you are setting yourself up for possible disappointment. It is fine to set personal goals for yourself....but don't set calendar dates for R. It is another form of controlling. And, if your W gets a clue about this....she will see it as another form of pressure...big time.

As so many on this board have expressed.....the LBS usually finds out too late (almost) what it is they were doing to hurt the R. I like what Michelle says about not trying to get the old R back but aim toward a new R. BTW, that doesn't mean with a different person.

I have a question for you. Did I miss something in your thread, or are you paying for her place to live? Are you staying there until the kid's bedtime and then leaving every night? (That's not giving her time alone, sweetie, no space at all for her.) If you are supporting her living expenses...no wonder she is okay with that. However, it causes her to feel that she "owes" you something in return.....via the C sessions. More pressure!!!

IMHO, your only hope is to back off, give her that space she needs to be alone and able to think for herself and feel free to do what she decides to do during a 24 hour day without you being there. Stop asking her questions about everything....that is drilling her! You don't see it as being that way, but that is the way she feels.

It will be hard to act like a caring friend without a personal motive (because, of course, you have one). Try to stop acting like a controlling husband and just be a concerned, caring friend who is there IF she calls or IF she wants to talk when you go to get the kids. Did you notice I said....get the kids? You need to take the kids and leave her there to be alone or let her go do whatever she wants to do. Stop staying there using the kids as your excuse because she knows what you are doing. Just call her and set up a time to drop by to pick up the kids, and tell her when they will be back...and leave. Don't hang around, don't pick for information, don't drag up old memories....just leave. A WAW wants to scream something......"Just get out of here and leave me alone!"

But, like I told you before, she probably won't say that because she doesn't want to hurt you. That is why WAW say things like I love you, but I'm not IN-LOVE with you. She must care a lot about you to go to the C sessions, etc. To me, that says a lot. So, don't give up. You both are scared about the future and your R. You are a "fixer" and that is part of your problem right now....and hers too. Stop trying to fix it...ok? Give it time...give it a rest...work on CVA. When she see your changes and decides it is going to stick this time, then I think that will be your only avenue to show her there is hope for a future together. Have YOU got the balls to do it? Can you stick it out?

One last thought for right now.....maybe...lol. A drastic sudden change may cause her to be suspicious or even frighten her a little. Not knowing your history and not knowing her...it is hard to speculate. Just try to be smoothe about your changes..........and oh........don't "announce" your changes. Don't point out to her how you are changing. Even if she is not around all the time to see those new & improved changes...others will notice and the word gets out and back to her. She may never say anything to let you know she has noticed your changes....but she will. Keep on keeping on. Remember, you are doing it for you.....and behaving "as if". Be confident, but not controlling. Be a friend, but not touchy-touchy. Be a dad to your kids, without sharing that time with her. She will notice that CVA has a life of his own and possibly a life without her! Wow! I promise, it will get her attention if you handle it properly. Then later, much later, you can start the dating and romancing over....but sweetie that is way down the road from here. Be very, very patient.

Let me hear from you.

Sandi2

[sandi2]

Hi there,

The books I refered to on womensinfidelity.com is about female sexuality and the way society has looked at the male and female with a double standard. Very, very informative. It is mostly about women going through stages of being unfaithful....be in emotionally or going on through to physically. Whey do I recommend this book even if the wife has not been unfaithful? Because in MLC, I think it is just a matter of time that the WAW, MLC, unfaithfulness.....it all starts to blend together.

A WAW has needs that have not been met and she will begin to look to some person or some thing to fill those needs. A woman is like a flower and if her ego has been fed and she has been given security....she will bloom and flourish. If she has been neglected, she will wilt and dry up. That is when she gets desparate and starts looking for help. She is very vulnerable to EA from the next guy that sweet-talks her. She is starving for this ego food and will get addicted very quickly....going back for more and more until she is in big trouble.

So, that is why I recommend that the H and the W read these two books. It helped me more than I can describe. I was so close turning an EA to a PA that I was going to meet the OM as soon as I recovered from my surgery in six weeks. After reading the second book on stage 3 and 4, I knew I would be lost for sure if I went farther in the EA affair. So, even though I have a long, long road to travel yet, I was able to get off that fence of not knowing what to do and get out of the "limbo" stage. That is an awful, awful place to be. That is the stage that wives walk away. It would help the husbands know what women are feeling during these stages in their ordeal.

I hope I answered your question.

[Not Much Left]

Sandi
Again, I hear you. Thank you so much for your time. I dont think I have had anyone, in years, be this interested in helping me and I have never even met you. I have felt so alone, I have no family so my family is all I have.

Just as a quick background, I lost my mom when I was 8, dad at 15 and have 2 bros and 1 sis much older. Lived with them for last 2 yrs till I graduated high school but really just a roof. Have pretty much been on my own since I was 13-14 and have been pretty successful up till about now. I say all this to tell you that I know I am holding on too tight because this is all I have.

I was trying to buid a new generation of my family and it is falling apart. I am so afraid of losing it all I will if I dont follow your advice and I know it. It may not work out anyway no matter what I do for me. Right now, as of this wrtiting, my biggest concern about myself is saying to myself "what does it matter if I change?" I am 44 and could die tomorrow. My kids need me but my W doesnt.

Yes I am paying for everything. We have plent of dough so that is not an issue for her if she decides to just leave. She is super attractive so pretty sure she knows her needs will always be met by someone else. This is all about her right now. She used the kids as her excuse to "protect them" from me. BS. If you actually saw me with them, you would never for an instant think anything other than I am a great dad but again, I am painted with whatever brush she has in her head about her loser dad who was a controlling alcoholic and still is. He doesnt drink anymore but still an ass.

I am going to pull away and see if she comes my direction. I may just move all my stuff out of the house and buy a new one. The only way I can resist coming over is if I make a break from the creature comforts of our house and be able to have our kids with me comfortably. Right now, that is not possible.

Thanks again for your time with me.
CVA