The other thread is getting old. Now that the C sessions are really drawing to a close I figured it was time to let that thread sleep.
I discovered an interesting phenomenon this past weekend. Over the past few days, I experienced the full range of feelings including resentment, joy, love, anger. While the feelings are normal, the way I reacted to each was different. Different that is to how I would have reacted a year ago.
The resentment is a feeling that I am trying eliminate from my being. Not sure if I will succeed but It does get dealt with rather harshly by my conciousness. Once identified my resentment antibodies attack it with the intent to kill. I still withdraw during this brutal battle, but the time lost is shorter than ever. Our poor dog was exhausted after our 1.5 hour walk.
Anger like resentment is an undesirable feeling. Unfortunately, it tends to attack swiftly taking your breath away. I find that quick detection is the key. I am working on building several new high speed detection systems in my mind. While W can no longer cause anger in me, the kids certainly can. My goal for the next several months is to master my new detection sytems. I figure this is lagging since the Zoloft I was on was pretty effective at eliminating this feeling.
Joy and Love are the feelings I strive for now. The old me would have noticed them and moved on to solve other problems. The new me sits and revels in these feelings to make them last as long as possible.
DBing is truley about personal change. It is about making what is good as lasting as possible and discarding what is bad. Why I had to be 42 before I could begin to understand these concepts is a little disheartening but, I guess better late than never.
Patience is the key to change. Patience with yourself and patience with others. We can affect change in our spouse and our children but not with authoritarian rule dealt out in anger or unhappiness. Consistant loving guidance is the key.
"Ok, take a breath and count to three. Now smile". My new motto. I think it's time to retire the "one day at a time" motto.
Kent
[This message has been edited by KentS (edited 05-21-2001).]
I discovered an interesting phenomenon this past weekend. Over the past few days, I experienced the full range of feelings including resentment, joy, love, anger. While the feelings are normal, the way I reacted to each was different. Different that is to how I would have reacted a year ago.
This , to me, is one of the cool parts about DB'ing. I've ALSO noticed this in me, and my W has, too. Must mean it's working. I still "react" in some of my old ways, at times, but catch myself, and attempt to do things differently.
The resentment is a feeling that I am trying eliminate from my being. Not sure if I will succeed but It does get dealt with rather harshly by my conciousness. Once identified my resentment antibodies attack it with the intent to kill. I still withdraw during this brutal battle, but the time lost is shorter than ever. Our poor dog was exhausted after our 1.5 hour walk.
This is a tough feeling for me, too, at times. I really like your analogy to the antibody thing. I'll have to keep this visual in mind, and see if it'll help me. Maybe the only way to get over the resentment is with time? And these negative feelings being pushed out of the way by more positive feelings coming in? I guess I'm pretty big into the "penance" thing. It's easier for me to forgive and forget about things when people prove they are truly sorry, and make attempts to change. I find some things are hard to just "let go" right now.
Anger like resentment is an undesirable feeling. Unfortunately, it tends to attack swiftly taking your breath away. I find that quick detection is the key. I am working on building several new high speed detection systems in my mind. While W can no longer cause anger in me, the kids certainly can. My goal for the next several months is to master my new detection sytems. I figure this is lagging since the Zoloft I was on was pretty effective at eliminating this feeling.
I think anger can also be a good emotion. Like a physical pain that tells us when something's wrong with our body, I think anger is a pain that tells us when something's wrong with us emotionally. I spent a lot of years suppressing anger, and it never really went away, it just got buried deeper, and gained strength, controlled a lot of my thoughts and actions. I'm finding myself still getting angry, but taking my deep breath, not "reacting" to it, but "acting on it". I'm trying to sort out what's important from what's not, what I can change from what I can't change, and take action from there. I'm better able to confront my W with things I think are a problem, in a kinder and gentler way, and she's appreciating me doing so.
Joy and Love are the feelings I strive for now. The old me would have noticed them and moved on to solve other problems. The new me sits and revels in these feelings to make them last as long as possible.
This sounds like a step on the road to true freedom. I bet your W and everyone else around you can notice it, too!
DBing is truley about personal change. It is about making what is good as lasting as possible and discarding what is bad. Why I had to be 42 before I could begin to understand these concepts is a little disheartening but, I guess better late than never.
It took me WAAAAY too long to learn this. I spent a lot of time trying to manipulate and change other people and situations, before I learned I had to change myself and my actions. Don't feel too bad, we're the same age, so it took me just as long, too. Imagine what we could have done if we had this knowledge years ago! We would be waaaay more awsomer!!
Patience is the key to change. Patience with yourself and patience with others. We can affect change in our spouse and our children but not with authoritarian rule dealt out in anger or unhappiness. Consistant loving guidance is the key.
Amen, brother.
JJ
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Hey Kent, For me one day at a time still has meaning, but I also have a new motto " ok, chose again " I am really focusing on the fact that i can chose to respond rather than react by not opening my mouth at my very first inclination and that my response is clearly a choice. Not opening my mouth gives me that beat i need to evaluate my choice and if need be chose again. Boy, does this take practice
This exact thing has been my biggest 180. Like Mike said, I too usually reacted almost immediately to things H said...I would have 2-3 sentences out of my mouth well before my brain was fully engaged.
Not so any more. Now I allow myself time to absorb the information, process it and determine what response, if any, is warranted. I am not sure if H has caught on to what I'm doing yet or not-a few months ago I had to ask him a couple of times NOT to preceed what he was about to tell me with "now don't flip out L..." because he was so certain I'd react. I guess he was used to saying that before he'd tell me something he thought would set me off. I asked him to tell me how he expected me to react. And I paid close attention....
I am learning to forgive myself that quick reactionary instinct I had by trying to imagine how I would like him to act that way.
I think I'm getting the hang of it and it seems to be more the norm for me. I am learning that by engaging my brain before my mouth gets going I am avoiding a lot of self-imposed friction.
quote:Originally posted by KentS: Once identified my resentment antibodies attack it with the intent to kill.
While W can no longer cause anger in me, the kids certainly can.
DBing is truley about personal change. Why I had to be 42 before I could begin to understand these concepts is a little disheartening but, I guess better late than never.
Patience is the key to change.
Hi Kent. I like your "resentment antibodies" wording. I never thought of resentment as a foreign antigen that our immune system will develop antibodies to, but what a great thought.
I also found it interesting what you said about anger and the kids. For me, the times I get angry at them usually stems from anger towards my H...I (wrongfully) displace my anger for him on the kids. Despite it being occasional, it is still wrong. But I've developed some anger antibodies and it's getting better.
I agree DBing is about personal change. I think I knew before what I know now (some of it) but only knew it subconsciously. Now, things are clear, and what a great thing it is to be able to see.
BB, you asked? ******************************************* I want to know how you are doing - for real!! You are so helpful to people - but sometimes I wonder if you don't need to lean on others once in a while. I know you are working on you, waiting on the other side of all of this for your W to take her journey - but does it get to you?- what kinds of thoughts go through your head when you get down? Or are you in such a cool place that it just is.... ********************************************
I am in a pretty cool place but it is far from perfect. It's even quite a ways from where I want to be. I still lean on certain people from time to time. I converse with GBON (greg) offline on occasion. I have regained control of my monsters. I know who they are. We have coffee from time to time.
I accept the fact that my struggle is with me and nobody else. My struggle at this point is to get to a place where the little ones no longer stress me out. Those two little guys can really push my buttons. The little guys literally drive my W nuts by the end of the day. Thats the main reason I take over when I get home from work and on weekends.
As far as W goes, I still wonder about wether we will make it from time to time. Again these are my fears. When they rear there ugly heads, I retreat into my cave until I can get it back togather. I would have to say that our R has regained alot of intimacy. Unfortunately, The innocent lustful passion is gone. I've been reading a book called "Surrendering to Marriage". The book talks about this loss of passion and basically says it always happens and to "get over it". I'm having a bit of trouble accepting this philosophy cus I did'nt give up my passion. It was ripped away from me. Not sure if I will even finish the book. I am actually feeling sorry for the author (Krasnow).
So BB, that is where I am at. I don't lean on many people as I usually try to deal with my problems in my cave. By the time I come out the problem is gone and I usually have new solutions to try. That is the crux! New Solutions! When problems appear, don't get lazy and push them off to the side. Listen, think and then respond!
It really does work and it is a pretty cool place to sit.
If I had all the answers, I'd be gone from this BB. If I had all the answers, I would not spend so much time reading in the NC forum. My R is definitely heading in a positive direction. I don't want to lose the drive to keep it going that way.
The boys and I have been busy. If the weather holds out, we are going to the zoo tomorrow. Maybe I can sign them up as a special display.
Kent - You ARE in a very cool place! So centered and calm, and you seem able get in and out of your cave with solutions quickly and effectively. You are a master!
You talk about what is missing for you now - that "innocent lustful passion" that was ripped away. I don't agree with Krasnow that it just happens, get over it..
I do believe in comes and goes in waves - and maybe it will never be as intense as it first was, but that the intensity is different rather than lessened over time. A solution would be to try to fan the flame that may no longer be innocent to an intense roar. Maybe you aren't looking for a solution to this, just feeling sad for the loss.
If you want solutions - I have ideas... I may not do so well at the non-reactive aspects of DB - but I have been able to get H to chase me around in lustful passion - this from the man who said " I'm just not attracted to you anymore".. and other things his body could not lie about!!! And I did it all by changing my behaviors.
Have you and W been away together alone in recent months? This could be a good way to reconnect and reignite.
I have several other suggestions if you are interested. I know off and on that H and I have missed this and I can tell you the things he did that as a woman helped me get some of that feeling back - for me it has a lot to do with being playful and silly, but time away from the everyday stressors is a BIG factor in getting started back on the path to passion.
I have girlfriends that are SAHMs and I know that it is very hard for them to separate the part of them that is Mommy and the part that is "lustful goddess". I know some of them even turn that part off due to the stress of running after the little ones and taking care of things at home. If you are looking to bring out the goddess in your W, I know it is possible, and it might not be that difficult.
Just say the word - I'll spill the secrets! She won't know what hit her!!
By the way, I am so impressed at how you share parenting with your wife - I don't know many guys who do what you do!! Your wife is very lucky in many ways!
Stop reading Krasnow. Try "Marital Lust". The book jacket reverses and my H asked me why I was reading about Secondary Education. "Always trying to learn new things, honey" was my sweet reply. This book is not depressing - I found it to be a mood enhancer!
A book jacket that reverses... how cool is that?? I'm sure that is marketable...
Kent, maybe you didn't want this to turn into something bigger, but I bought the "Joy of sex" actually, and it said something really interesting about intimacy and keeping passion alive.... one thing being that building intimacy (specifically in sex) is something that, if done right, does not feel "safe" as it is done- it is achieved by taking small risks that open us up. I guess that is obvious, but I had never looked at it that way.
