JUST WHEN I THINK I'M OK, I GET DRAGGED BACK DOWN AGAIN!!!
OK ... so I'm no Al Pacino, that's how I'm feeling right now. Things have been turning out good for the past week or so. My stress level at work has been on the decline. I've gotten past CAW's news she's started smoking. D19 may be moving back in with me. (... but that's a whole post in itself which I won't go into here.) D11 and I have been getting along great for the most part. Yesterday, I had even asked CAW out Friday for what would our 3rd date in a month and she accepted. (Dom Irrera will be doing standup at a local club.) We had already arranged for me to pick her up this morning for both of us to have a fasting bloodwork done, then we had breakfast out. Afterwards, we went back to the apartment so I can pick up D11 and CAW was going Christmas shopping for D11 and put some stuff on layaway. D11 & I were going to go to the library to return some books and DVD's, but they were closed for the holiday. Turned out D11 didn't get to watch one of the DVD's, so when we got home she put it in. After watching the movie and having some lunch, CAW & s-D24 showed up to pick up D11 because I had another doc appointment at 2:30. CAW mentioned after my appointment come by and pick D11 again if I want to. I said OK.
3:15 pm I knock on their door, CAW opens the door then strangely retreats. I step in. There's a guy sitting at kitchen table holding a convo with s-D24. CAW goes straight to D11 bedroom to tell her I'm here to pick her up as I walk past the guy and down the hallway to D11's room. As CAW gets on D11 to ready herself quickly, she avoids looking at me the entire time, basically confirming my suspicions the man sitting in the kitchen is OM and left to her accord she would continue to pretend I & OM. So I simply ask in a low tone, "Who's that?" to which she simple answers, "Its OM."
Well, I got a good look at him and what came to mind was CAW's words she wrote in her journal about how she felt about him.. I kept my composure. Oh how I wanted to confront him, but only because D11 was there as well was enough to keep me silent. We quickly departed, D11 headed straight for the truck without giving CAW a kiss goodbye. Carol made a snide comment about not getting a kiss and that D11 was in one of her moods. The only thing I can say about that was, "I guess so." and asked when she would like D11 back by. She said anytime you want but she has school tomorrow. I said, "I was just asking for I didn't know if she had plans for the evening." She picked up on the implication and said she didn't have any plans, so I turned and went to join D11.
We headed to the house, but neither of us wanted to stay there. D11 wanted to go to a mall 45 minutes away and that didn't appeal to me. Then I struck me, why don't we go bowling ... now that I have a face to picture on those pins, I felt like thowing some strikes! In order to get to the bowling alley, we had to pass by the apartment and as we drove past there's the jeep exiting the driveway with s-D24 in it. D11 says, "Looks like s-D24 is going to work." and at that instant the thought enters well that leaves CAW & OM alone to do whatever they want.
We went bowling and it was distacting enough to have a pretty good time and I did manage four strikes and an equal number of spares! Then we headed over to McDonald's which just made D11's day. I suggested walking the small mall we were adjacent to, but D11 has this phobia about being out after dark, so she wanted to go home. On the way home, I felt myself getting suck down and knew once we get home, it would continue to get worse and I didn't think it would be fair to D1, so I asked if she wouldn't mind if I dropped her off at the apartment. She said she was fine with it. So I called CAW to see if it was alright to drop D11 of in a couple of minute as we were heading by. She said yea and them asked why. I couldn't come up with an DB-type of answer on the spot, so I just said, "I just need some time alone." I walked D11 to the door and gave her a kill goodbye and told her I would see her on Monday. I did not go in. I did not see CAW. I turned around and just left. (My first time I didn't say hi to CAW when I came to the apartment.)
I forewarned her that she may run the danger of crossing the line where I say I had enough. My head tells me that line is drawn when she pursues OM after making the choice for a S. My head tells me how can I continue to be her friend, if what she does continues to hurt me. Why would I want to be her friend when all I get from it is pain? My head tells me I should have nothing more to do with her. My head tells me I should let her have him, because she deserves a womanizer that will end up cheating on her one day, so she can experience the pain she has caused me? My head tells me, "why the hell would you want to go on a date with her tomorrow night?" My head tell me I had enough." My head says, "Why don't I just give her the d@mn D?"
Why can't my heart follow my head?????
Some imput please...
'til later, KAW
P.S. I had some reservations starting this thread here in this forum, bu being in "Piecing" for two years, it where I have my strongest following.
Quote: My head tells me that line is drawn when she pursues OM after making the choice for a S. My head tells me how can I continue to be her friend, if what she does continues to hurt me. Why would I want to be her friend when all I get from it is pain? My head tells me I should have nothing more to do with her. My head tells me I should let her have him, because she deserves a womanizer that will end up cheating on her one day, so she can experience the pain she has caused me? My head tells me, "why the hell would you want to go on a date with her tomorrow night?" My head tell me I had enough." My head says, "Why don't I just give her the d@mn D?"
Why can't my heart follow my head?????
Some imput please...
'til later, KAW
P.S. I had some reservations starting this thread here in this forum, bu being in "Piecing" for two years, it where I have my strongest following
Hi KAW,
Sorry I don't have any input for you but I do really understand where you are coming from. Even after the d it is hard to decide whether to try staying friends when their actions still cause pain.
{{{{{{{{KAW}}}}}}}}}}
I am glad you managed some strikes.
Take care of yourself because you are a wonderful person.
I decided I am trying to piece me so that it is still ok to be here where my friends and support are.
Pam
"We must be willing to let go of the life we had planned so as to have the life that is waiting for us"
Dear KAW - It seems like yet another majot roadblock, doesn't it? I'm so sorry you are being to sorely tried I keep thinking what CAW gets from the om-fantasy and can only come back to the hoary chestnut of 'doing her own thing' - being in control, etc.
Could it be that with you she feels safe, feels she knows what is coming next, even with all these nice dates etc. Has she been exposed to not knowing what KAW is up to? I've just finished getting caught up with GBO over at newcomers, and I was certain her H would be a real tough one, but I can see the walls crumbling over there - the major effort on her part, with expert coaching from the rest, has been the fine art of mystery - driving the WA crrraazzzy wondering what they are passing up.
It is the only thing I can think that CAW is doing - cake eating, in short.
You are going thru it this week for sure. Man oh man......it is tough to keep the heart strong or at least steady on course when faced with the OM....in her apt. But...that IS more information for your head/heart to sift through. I like what Slowly had to say about being more mysterious.
Quote: but I can see the walls crumbling over there - the major effort on her part, with expert coaching from the rest, has been the fine art of mystery - driving the WA crrraazzzy wondering what they are passing up.
This is so important. What would CAW NOT expect you to do? What's a good 180 you could pull this week-end....that doesn't appear revengeful....something calm, cool and collect? She might expect you to cancel your date. She might expect you to be cool toward her.....maybe a "whatever" attitude would suffice, just some random thoughts. Maybe chatting about vague social plans and new friends you are getting to know....or groups, clubs....classes....places where she might wonder IF you are meeting more interesting women and expanding your horizons. Make her wonder that in some fashion....even IF you haven't actually gone there yet....
BTW, maybe it is time to do some of that.
Keep us posted how how the week-end goes. Hang in there...you know we are all here for you and only want the best for you. Glad you and D11 are dong so well....that's huge, keep that close to your heart.
Pam, Slowly, Mooka, thanks so much for the support.
I'm sorry to do this but I summarized the last 24 hours over at the thread I have over in the Seperated forum and I just don't have the umphf to post it over here.
Actually, I think I have to go a bit beyond mysterious and more like going as dark as I can without impacting D11. Another words, only see CAW whenever I drop or pick up D11 and even then since she stays in the livingroom at the other end of the apartment I probably can leave without seeing her at all.
... and only talk to her when it concerns D11. Like I just found out about a model train show this Sunday. So, I will call D11 tomorrow and see if she is interest in going. If so, then I will talk to CAW to see if its OK with her and that's it.
Thanks again for all your inputs, it really did help make me feel all is not lost yet, just need to stop trying so hard.
Got your email. Sorry, but I took a few days off work and wasn’t checking my emails, so I didn’t respond right away.
Quote: … just need to stop trying so hard.
I think that says it all, KAW.
My advice is:
Do not go dark
Do not confront OM
Do not compete with OM
Do not date CAW to get her back
Do not avoid dates with CAW to spite her or manipulate her
Do not avoid in-laws to avoid being hurt
Do not follow your heart
Do not follow your head
Just be yourself, KAW. If it feels right, do it. If it doesn’t, don’t fear a missed opportunity to save your M. Over the past 2 ½ years, you’ve tried everything, KAW. Everything except to stop trying.
To stop trying isn’t the same thing as giving up, KAW. What I’m talking about is to keep your own love alive without letting it depend on CAW’s feelings. A long time ago, CAW fell in love with a KAW who didn’t try to “make” her love him. He just naturally loved her for who she is. You still love her for who she is, right?
Right?
Step back for a second, KAW and look at things with a beginner’s mind. That’s what DB is really about. 180’s, going dark… They’re all techniques to help you DB. But the bottom line is to try something different. You’ve tried all of the known DB techniques, and they haven’t worked.
I just wanted to step back on the soap box for one last word...
When we get too caught up in techniques, something happens that we aren’t really aware of. There are two casualties.
The first casualty is the truth. The second casualty is yourself.
Both of these losses are noticed by your SO. Even if they aren’t conscious of it, they know in their heart of hearts that something’s not right.
Quote: So I called CAW to see if it was alright to drop D11 of in a couple of minute as we were heading by. She said yea and them asked why. I couldn't come up with an DB-type of answer on the spot, so I just said, "I just need some time alone."
OK, KAW. It wasn’t a DB-type answer. It was a KAW-type answer. It was honest without foisting blame on CAW.
Be yourself, KAW. You’re a great guy.
You can’t be the great guy you are if you’re always trying to project a DB image.
If you keep second-guessing what CAW thinks, you’ll keep her guessing too.
And I can guarantee you one thing. She’ll guess wrong!
Good friend KAW! It's been some time since I've poked my head on the BB, but I wanted to check in with a couple of folks...of course, you being one of them.
Jeez...the last time I checked in you and CAW were still working things out. Well, at least YOU were trying. Now, come to find out, she's in an apartment??? When did that happen?
So, I have to say, after reading your posts, I thought Andy's advice was pretty right-on. You have tried pretty much everything. You've exhausted many of the techniques we employ to bring our Ses around. Perhaps it is time to just be...be KAW? Isn't that how you got CAW to be yours in the first place?
You know, I'm ever reminded of something I've come to realize over the last few years, which has been repeated many times on the BB. Our Ses do what they do because they are in pain. It's a distraction from the things that are going on inside of them...things that have been going on for years. DBing, I think, helps jog their awareness, but until our S begins to examine these things, I don't think much can change. CAW seems to be stuck in this loop. Maybe you're right...maybe she won't realize what's been going on until OM cheats on her. Maybe that's the event that will make her examine herself. Maybe that's the lesson the Universe has in mind...
Perhaps release CAW from the focused efforts of your DBing. Perhaps relieve yourself of the burden of trying so hard. Perhaps trust the Universe to let things unfold a bit by themselves for a time...
WOW!!! ... It's really great to hear some from ole friends.
Have I tried everything? ... yes and no. Yes you guys are right that I have tried every technique there is to try to draw her closer with only limited success ... and why only limited success. Because I turely thinks she believes I will always be there for her and that whenever she wants I will accept her back.
Have I tried anything to try to break that perception. No ... because a part of me believed it as well. I was ready, to convince her I'm willing to walk away. Andy, I know you are familar with the turning point in Matilda's sitch. That's two years ago, and since then, I've always have that in the back of my mind, because I have felt that's something I need to do with CAW. I just could not find the strength for that type of resolve and be able to follow through with it if it turned for the worst.
... but I know I'm ready now. Andy, I haven't given up. I'm just at the point of accepting whatever choice CAW's decides about our future. What I do now is for myself.
On that note, during the summer I started reading Dobson's "Love Must be Tough", but only got 50 pages in then stopped due mostly to be distracted by other things. Last night, I picked it up again and the next two chapters pertained to exactly where I'm at for this last week ... yes the end of the second chapter ended with the famous (or infamous depending on your POV) Dobson letter. It all felt so right for me ... given CAW's fondness for the written word for expressing feelings rather than talking about them and I have never ever wrote to her ... and given that letter of her she wrote back in May that kept surfacing for three months ... it all plays right into my fascination for irony ... I just can not leave alone the poetic justice in this ... this I do for me... so I stayed up to 4:30 in the morning writing this letter...
Dear CAW, Its only recently that I have come to realize how important your fondness of the written word is to you and I have come to regret never writing to you my most inner thoughts before now.
Last Thursday had really opened my eyes and made me see what I had refused to accept for the last three years. Now I feel like such a fool for not considering your pleas of wanting no more of our marriage. All I knew was how much I loved you and I guess I just wanted to believe in that silly notion that “Love can conquer all.” I see the absurdity of that now.
You have asked many times over, “Why do you love me?” I don’t think I was ever able to explain it to you before, but with the clarity I have now, I think I can explain it pretty simply. My love for you came from me knowing how important I became to your life. You were the first person to ever show me just how important I was to you and you had such a sweet, endearing way of going about it. For some time, your were the only one I ever felt that way about until I let D19 and D11 into my heart as well … and knowing how important I once meant to you had kept me steadfast through all our most difficult times and never once waned. While I’m guilty for a time of not showing my love for you, the way I should have, it doesn’t mean I ever loved you any less. Thursday, after inviting me and knowing I would be there to pick up D11 … to force me to see his presence in your home, it came through loud and clear to me, I am no longer an important person to you and for the first time in twenty-four years, in that instance … I no longer felt that love for you.
So where do we go from here? I really don’t know! I have mentioned to you before that the direction you are taking would lead to you crossing a line where I can no longer say what I think will become of us. CAW, you have crossed that line. I can no longer say with any certainty if you decided to change your mind and come back, I would be willing. In fact, as much as you wish to remain friends, I cannot see myself being your friend. I never again want to experience the gamut of emotions I did when looking upon “him” as I did on Thursday. Although I tried Monday evening, I don’t wish to ever step foot into that apartment again. Ohhh, how I will miss you, but as painful as that will feel, it is far less than being reminded of how I’m no longer all that important to you anymore…
So where does that leave us? I wish no animosity towards you and now letting you know how I feel, I will leave it up to you to lead in however you wish our future to develop. Bear in mind, what should be of importance is making sure this has the least painful impact on D11. I would like to see our current arrangement pertaining to D11’s custody and financial support continue as is. If you wish for a divorce, I have no problem granting it, other than I will need some time to save the money to start the proceedings. If at some point you wish to come back, then I guess we will need to talk. I make no promises however. I’m doing everything possible now to remove you from my heart to spare myself any more pain and it won’t be easy, but I need to do this for myself. You were my only love – the only one I ever wanted, but as the song goes… “That was yesterday…” Wishing you all the best, KAW
Now this is NOT another attempt of me DBing. This is NOT a last ditch effort to get her to change her mind. I'm doing this for me. This is my version of standing up for myself, but in a way she has never seen before from me ... and like Mattie ... this is my way of saying I've had all I can take. I'm not giving up. I'm leaving the choice all up to her from here on out and I will accept whatever she decides and work from there towards what is best for me and D11. I know now I'm ready to do this and move on from here...
I intend to give her the letter Friday night when I pick D11 for the weekend. Of course, your input is always welcome.
It’s not the way I would go, but you’re not me, and our sit’s are different. And most importantly (harking back to my previous post), You have to do what KAW wants/needs to do.
Quote: Stop DBing, KAW. Just be true to yourself.
As an aside, I don’t consider Dobson letters as a DB technique, but that isn’t good or bad. The only thing I think one has to be cautious of is if they are using a Dobson letter as a technique if they aren’t truly ready to accept the possibility that this is exactly what their SO wants.
The only thing I would urge you to consider, KAW is this. Are you ready for any reaction to the letter? What if the reaction is relief that you’ve “finally got it.”
I know you didn’t write the letter to manipulate her, KAW, but I also think that part of you wants the letter to change her mind. I’m not trying to convince you not to give her the letter. I just want you to think about that a little so you’ll be emotionally prepared. Her reaction may hurt more than you think.
I keep thinking what CAW gets from the om-fantasy and can only come back to the hoary chestnut of 'doing her own thing' - being in control, etc. 