Everyone, I'm moving to this neighborhood from the Newcomers because I was hoping to have some insight from some of the wisest DBers. I very much apologize for the lengthy post. In any case, a recap:
I'm 33, my W is 32, S 9, and D 4. We've been M 10 years, but were highschool sweethearts (had a 1-year breakup during college times). So, basically, we've known each other a long time, a lot of water under the bridge, etc.
1st bomb occurred 10/01 and second bomb on 10/02. The 1st bomb was the "I love you, but not in love" talk where she told me that she's been unhappy for a long time--unhappy with our M, unhappy with being a mother, regrets that she didn't do all those things she should have when she was younger. We got M too young, had kids too young, need a separation...we all know the drill. After the first bomb my W was very much in the alien phase, and I didn't recognize her (this has since gotten better). During this time she explored different things about herself, however. Bought some books, went out a lot, did some soul searching, but did not really implement anything she read. It was the difference between talking about doing this and that to make her happy and not actually doing what needed to be done. All talk and no action.
2nd bomb was 10/02. Pretty much the same conversation, but she concentrated more on the M being a failure than the children so much. She was more determined to S this time. The idea was to see if her feelings would change...the same sentiment as the first bomb. After an absolutely brutal weekend of me getting ticked off, getting sad, etc., and her finally talking to her parents, she decided to stick it out a little longer and not S.
It was after this second incident I found DR. Up until getting DR I acted like a whiner--pressuring, getting angry, etc., and didn't take responsibility for my half of the M. So now it's been about three months of DBing.
Now, I'll call this the third bomb, although it's a good bomb...I think... I found out my W had an A today (12-28-02). I have suspected for some time, but it still hit me like a piano out of a five-story apartment building. All of a sudden, in pretty much one day, she's back to the old W. It's messing with my brain and I'm trying to figure out what to do exactly. I've posted details on the latest bomb in my previous thread, Subatomic Steps are Better Than None at All! However, I have taken the liberty of including the most significant post from my previous thread of this event. Significantly more followed, but I don't want to bore you...
Quote: Well, the EA was a PA, as I suspected, after the first bomb. I finally got her to admit it. Damn, it's hard just writing the words. I am confused with a bundle of emotions because, after our talk this morning, I think that one could say that I'm a DB success story. Yet the pain of my W's infidelity is killing me. I was shaking throughout most of our conversation, which I will try and highlight.
I think I've realized a couple of important things today--one of which many of you are not going to want to hear. First, if one's S is acting like most of ours are, I'd say that it's likely they had or are having an A. The anger they show us is guilt about their own actions. Secondly, I realized that (as much as my W was trying to avoid it) I needed to have this conversation for HER to move on to try and fix our M. Although I don't think this is the case with everyone, I think she had to release her guilt...even though she told me her C (and others) advised her not too. She won't admit it, but talking about the A was the catalyst that caused us to have the all-important R talk that everyone on this board both wants and dreads...
So, at about six this morning, she rolled over and asked how last night was (with Umbrella). I said it was fine, then jumped in and said I think you've had an A. Real subtle, huh? She tried dodging the issue, but finally admitted it. I won't bore you with THOSE details, however, but I wanted to share with you what else she said. I will try and do my best to remember because I think it's important for all of us to hear/understand.
Gosh, so much was said... She told me that she felt she had to have an A to see how it made her feel...to get a better understanding of OUR situation. She said it wasn't right and that she feels guilty, regrets it, apologized and so on, but that she was coming from a (bad) place where that was her justification. She also wants to very much try and work things out. She admitted to having intimacy issues with me (which she does...and she realized she would with anyone) and wants to try and get that straightened out. She said that (ever since I DBed) she had begun to remember what things were like way back when, and how she loved me. She said that she thought she could get that love back, but it would be a lot of work for both of us. She also said that she'd respect my wishes about certain issues (I'll get to that later). She told me and praised me about how I've changed the last few months, and that she likes it so very much. In fact, she went as far to say that that's what really made her stop and think twice about everything. She didn't realize how much my tense and stressful behavior got to her over the years. She went on to say that she knows my changes are for me and that's great, that she does not see me going back to my old ways. She knows, and said, that they are permanent. And this change is what REALLY caused her to rethink things. You see guys, it does work!!! She also said that she and I could go to counseling, one that I had already mentioned, one that is action oriented for goodness sake!
I pretty much figured she had had an A when I was driving down south to meet Umbrella...all the curious pieces seemed to have fallen into place. So I had time to think it through in the car (took about two hours). I decided that the approach I was going to take was not to lay down and I was going to make some demands...set some boundaries. There was just no other way for me given her behavior. So, I told her that I never want her going back to that damn bar, and to generally cut down all this going out and drinking business. I said that it was an unhealthy, and that that was my argument for her not going so much to begin with. I said that I was trying to avoid exactly what happened. She admitted to me that it was true, and that she'd do that. I also said she is never to have contact with this person again. Her response was, "that goes without saying."
Towards the end of our conversation, I asked if she even loved me. She was quiet a moment (which I didn't like), but said that she did. I still think it's the "I love, but I'm not in love with you" thing...
This is going to be so incredibly difficult for me to deal with. I'm very conservative and have very strong opinions about infidelity. I used to think that if she ever did anything like that, it would be over. I'm not sure that it wouldn't if it wasn't for my wonderful kids. I look at it as I married this woman, so I have to pay the consequences of her actions to give my children a loving home. I know it's harsh, but that's how I feel.
I have a lot of healing ahead of myself and a lot of forgiving for my W. God knows I still love her, but I'm naturally angry...not as angry as I thought, though. So, in a way this is a bitter sweet victory, is it not, but a victory nonetheless?
That's it! Any comments? I'm just hoping my old W will stay that way...that her behavior today is not simply out of guilt. I'd hate to see the alien rear its ugly head again.
Quote: Hope you are doing okay today - I am thinking of you!
Thanks, RJJ. I appreciate the visit, and you know what, I am feeling much better--believe it or not. I also appreciate your thoughts. It's comforting to know I have some support... ((((RJJ))))
You know, I forgot to say something kind of significant in my multiple posts yesterday. My W said that it was kind of corny, but she thought that yesterday should become our anniversary date.
She's really being very sweet with everything. Of course, she should be with all that she's done over the last year. Nonetheless, I know that some people don't get the kind of gratiousness from their Ses like my W is giving to me...so I'm grateful for that. Lots of apologies, hugs, etc. I told her that I had my concerns that the way she was treating me was because of guilt and was not here to stay (hence, I'm worried the alien is going to come back). She said that although she feels guilty, she's here to stay. I guess time will tell.
She also said, "We'll work through this." I responded with the affirmative. In the past when she told me she would work on things her conviction was just not there. The words would come, but again, no action. This time it's very different. The words are different, how she says the words are different, and her actions when she speaks the words are different. Of course, I'm still a little gun-shy.
I am finding, however, that I can be pretty blunt because she's back in a place where she can hear it. I certainly couldn't have said these things a few months ago.
Wow, sounds like a transformation in your W for sure! I think you have exorcised her! Not that this will be easy for you, but it sounds like you and W are on the same side now. That's the best you could hope for, given the painful circumstances that led up to this happening. (Have you read LL's thread today? Very frustrating for her, and me actually because I think our H's are similar...anyway you will see how fortunate you are in some ways.) Not to downplay your pain, but I really do see your situation just getting better from this turning point.
I followed your breadcrumb trail and got here - directions were great!
You are doing a splendid job of working through this with your W. She does sound very sincere - there is obviously the element of guilt, however, that is also very positive.
Now that the bar thing is out of the way and off the agenda, you can all begin to heal and move forward. I can image it is hard for you, the visions of your W and the OM entering your mind without invitation. No answers for you on this one, although, punishing your W probably wont be the answer - I'm not saying that you're doing that though.
It sounds like the place you and your W are heading to together, will be a b good place. Somewhere fresh, fruitful and honest. Somewhere you can both build together and move forward.
Your new home is going in my favourites and I'll be checking by to see how you are.
Congrats on your new home. It was nice seeing you Friday, even though you probably weren't in the best of moods. Still, there are so many positives in your sitch. W wants to work things out, and I pray that I can get to your boat sometime soon, even if it means admitting her A.
Jim
I know God won't give me anything I can't handle. I just wish He didn't trust me so much.
Quoting RJJ:Not to downplay your pain, but I really do see your situation just getting better from this turning point.
Thanks RJJ. I agree that this is a turning point. In fact, if you remember, that is the name of my W's latest CD. So, she clearly feels the same way.
Quoting Dienne:you can all begin to heal and move forward. I can image it is hard for you, the visions of your W and the OM entering your mind without invitation. No answers for you on this one, although, punishing your W probably wont be the answer.
The visions are awful. I'm finding I put my hands on my head try and make them go away...lot of good that does. Dienne, I'll tell you what, I really do feel like punishing her. I've been punished for over a year, find out she's had an A, then need to forgive and forget...move forward. I know my sitch looks great to everyone, but dammit, it hurts. She keeps saying, "We'll get through this. Things will get better." Easy for her to say. She wasn't the one walking on pins an needles for a year. She's not the one that went out to improve herself and try and change. She's the one that decided going and having a bunch of drinks at a bar and sleeping with someone else was the answer!
Sorry for the rant, Dienne. I'm so very angry. I've been nothing but faithful and supportive our entire M. I'm not saying I'm perfect by any means, but come on! This is BS. "Yeah, I treated you like crap for 15 months, I didn't give you the time of day, I was cruel to you often, and I decided to sleep with another man because I didn't feel right about myself!" C'mon! I've worked so very hard to get her back and I feel like pushing her away! It's awful! She better start DBing my a$$ for a change!
I guess I've entered the angry phase already??? Sorry, guys...
Quoting Jim: It was nice seeing you Friday, even though you probably weren't in the best of moods. Still, there are so many positives in your sitch.
It was great seeing you too, Jim. I agree my sitch is extremely positive. You know, my greatest fear (besides a loved one dying), a fear that I have had nightmares about for years, is my W's infidelity. I don't know, maybe I have issues or something, but it's interesting how the universe comes back and bites you in the a$$.
Just wanted to stop in and let you know you have been in my thoughts and prayers today.
As promised as I prayed for everyone here on the bb going through these trials and tribulations, I specifically lifted your situation up to God.
Later this evening I started feeling bad again and almost didn't go to church but I am glad I pulled myself together and went. Tonight's sermon was on forgiving and forgetting. Throughout the sermon you and your family kept coming into my mind. Preacher said in order to forget something whether is a sin against ourselves or others we must forgive us or them first. It is in forgiving that we can look forward into the future and slowly forget the wrong-doing.
While sitting here I was reminded of how my parents had separated about 20 years ago. I briefly spoke to my Mom about this when H first left. My Dad while gone had a PA and was gone for nearly two years. Mom said that she really didn't remember much of the details anymore. I remember wondering how she could ever forget such a thing. I now know why the memories faded in time b/c she had forgiven my father for what he had done.
Bellis, think of this way. Even though your Ws body is like a forbidden temple for anyone to touch. The OM didn't get the most important thing and that's her spirit/soul. That she kept for you. One day we will leave this flesh here on earth and our souls will go live with the Lord. And we will rejoin our families in heaven. So this past year will become a faded memory when you think of the eternity you and her will share together.
My mind is running kinda of wild tonight. I did ask the Lord to settle my thoughts while I wrote this post. I hope some of this makes sense.
I went to sleep last night and woke up this morning thinking about your sitch - I really do feel it for you. Anger is a normal reaction I think. Still think you are handling this so much better than I would in your sitch. Try to keep focused on the future. I agree with what Stacey said about you having her soul. This is a part of us we don't open up and give to just anyone. I bet she is now DBing her buns off on you now - sounds like it from your previous posts.
Remember, all the changes you have made were for you - you are now a better person than you were before and would you really want to be the same person you were before?
I am so hoping that things will start to get easier - I've not read that part of the book yet and really pray I don't have to - I can already feel your pain and anger.
You've got some superb support on this board - Floyd, Stacy, JJ, MJ and many, many others - forgive me, my memory is not what it normally is - pregnancy kills brain cells!! Seriously, thank God for our children - I'd be lost without my son and this one on the way.
Just got caught up on your sitch since I have been off and on the past week or so.
You and I feel the same way. The only diff is that I found out in sept that W had a PA, but didnt and still dont know for sure who it was. I am 99% positive though I know who it is.
I know EXACTLY how you feel. The visions, the pain, the ANGER. I feel like I want to just blow up and go off on her sometimes. I also have a lot of anger built up towards OM since he knew she was married, he is married. I am not a fighter, well, try to avoid them when I can, but I really really want to hurt him.
Reading your sitch has helped me out a bunch. I feel that my W and I will not be able to move on until this A issue is resolved. Same with your sitch. I figured out last week that she is still hung up on it too, that its not just me.
I feel for you man because we are in the exact same boat. I am here for you when you need me and I know that you are here for me too. Your input on my sitch has helped me a ton and hopefully mine has done the same for you.
FLoyd The grass is always GREENER over the septic tank.
Nonetheless, I know that some people don't get the kind of gratiousness from their Ses like my W is giving to me...so I'm grateful for that. Lots of apologies, hugs, etc. I told her that I had my concerns that the way she was treating me was because of guilt and was not here to stay (hence, I'm worried the alien is going to come back). She said that although she feels guilty, she's here to stay. I guess time will tell.
Sorry, guys...
Seriously, thank God for our children - I'd be lost without my son and this one on the way.