Well, a lot has happened, including getting in trouble at work for surfing too much
No big deal, but I've needed to lay low for a while. First to respond to this:
She calls you an awful lot. I'm wondering, why you make yourself SO accessible to her ALL THE TIME. If you're tired, don't answer your phone. Why should you be there to sing her to sleep? If she lived with you, you could sing to her every night. See what I'm getting at? For instance, if I was going on an evening canoe ride, I'd leave my phone in the car. You've got to be TOO busy to talk to her sometimes.
But, what do I know...
I think this is good advice, thanks!
It's definitely a change, only in the last couple weeks has she been calling so much that I need to think this way. But I'm starting to cut things short if I'm at work, or not stay up quite so late.
W called over the weekend telling me she misses me and wants to come visit! What a surprise. All the stuff for SIL's wedding is getting busy, but she still wants to come. We tried for Tuesday, but now she's coming on Friday. Can't wait.
She said the family drama is continuing, and that she's officially "done" with her dad. This is a huge turnaround from March. My C says that FIL is the biggest obstacle to our reconciling, so we'll see what happens.
In other news, I'm making quite a bit of money renting my canoe out on Craigslist. Who would've thought? The thing was just sitting behind my house before. It will be in a photo shoot next week, which means I need to have it there at 6:30AM, but I'm charging them extra.
W is a CL master, so she does the listing for me and helps with the responses, etc. Working out well because she feels useful and important.
Jon
I haven't follow your story all the way yet.
So far you seems doing pretty good.
I am happy for you....
I saw you CL comments. I need to post something on there. I can use some extra $$.
Good luck and keep up the good work.
NW626
Hey nw626!
I need to post links to past threads, thanks for reminding me.
About to leave to go see W!
Got this in my e-mail today, thought it would be good to share. I plan on reading it on the way to Houston. It's called "The Shocking Truth about Rebuilding Trust", from one of my counselors.
http://www.harboringhope.com/shockingtruth
OK, I need some DBing help!
The weekend was good, and I left knowing I wouldn't see W for quite some time, with the two weddings she's in this month. We've been talking more, and she says she wants to spend Thanksgiving together! I'm very surprised, but she says she's tired of her family. I looked into booking a cruise, but it looks like we'll go camping instead. Yay!
W called in the middle of the wedding craziness to ask for financial help. She even gave me her account password to do the transfer. I glanced quickly at her account to make sure no further charges are coming, and was very relieved to see that she has no NSF's in the last several months. Talking with my recovery sponsor, he said that the account thing was huge, and that I needed to thank her for trusting me. Here's what I wrote:
W,
I want to tell you how much I respect that you trusted me with your account password. I want you to know that I won't go snooping through your account. I won't be accessing it again, and I understand if you want to change your password.
This may not have been a big deal to you, and I'm not reading too much into it, but I appreciated it nonetheless. Can't wait to have a thanksgiving with you away from my crazy family!
Jon
Jon,
thank you for being a lifesaver to me today. The emails you have sent were so kind, I appreciate that. By the way, you get 200 points for almost planning a cruise! I would really like to come up there & camp around lake palestine or RHubbard. Although, it may be warmer down here.
Are you missing me more than usual? It feels like it, just wondering, no judgment. FIL is now possibly coming to the wedding, everyone is upset & on edge about the flip-flopping that has been going on. I'm pissed, of course.
I hope you have a fun weekend w/ all the canoe & truck stuff.
W
In the end, W and SIL told FIL not to come. About freakin' time! The wedding went very well without him.
How should I answer the "missing me" question? She called last night while I was out for drinks, darts and football, and said she was lonely. I told her I miss her too, and she mentioned I never responded to the e-mail.
Here's a first draft:
W,
I've missed you like crazy ever since you've been gone, but haven't told you until now.
It's because I'm doing this thing called DB'ing, and I have to act happy and not say ILU or I miss you, and show you that I'm fine on my own.
OK, just kidding, but I need help on this. She also told me I could text her over the weekend, but "nothing mushy, like I Love You. I know you wouldn't say that anyway". There was an awkward moment, and I think it may be time for the ILU soon.
Talked with my sponsor about how W doesn't like to be mushy, as she calls it. Isn't that opposite of most women? He said "not women who have been hurt." True, I think.
Whew! You had me freaked out about mentioning DB'ing to her. Don't ever do that.
Again, you answered a call from her while you were out doing drinks, darts, and football. DON'T ANSWER EVERY CALL! Especially if you are out having some good "man-time".
Now, the miss me question...that's a toughie.
Maybe something like,
"I do miss you. We used to have a lot of fun together. I'm keeping busy and filling in my spare time so I don't have to think too much about it. I do look forward to our camping trip. It'll be a nice change from the usual holiday muck."
Tells her you miss her, but you haven't laid down and died without her.
Maybe?
I think that's good ms b. Your outside perspective really helps.
It's hard to not be in husband mode when she needs me, but I need to remember that she's chosen this.
W is now in the hole again, and her landlord hasn't even cashed the rent check yet.
Background on this is natural gas prices have gone way down, but W's check is three months delayed, so it's just starting to hit her. I just need to let her figure it out. She made $300 yesterday somehow, and wants to keep doing that. I really hope she didn't sell the wedding ring, but again I have no control over that.
Somehow she made $300? Can you elaborate on HOW?
Is she working?
Women don't sell their wedding ring. Well, I'm sure some women have, but no, she won't.
Somehow she made $300? Can you elaborate on HOW?
Is she working?
No, she's not. She does a lot of Ebay and Craigslist deals, so probably something with that.
Nice talk with W yesterday, finalizing plans for Thanksgiving. W called this morning, "Merry Christmas, want to meet me for lunch?"
Really a nice surprise, and I was very excited. We went out to our favorite Mexican place, and it went OK, I guess. One of the first things she said was "why on earth do you still wear your ring?" I quickly took it off, and apologized. I don't really know how to answer that without starting an R talk.
Turns out W needed a vacation, so she came up, got a hotel room last night, and took it easy. Frankly, this pissed me off. Why didn't she call me? And I know how broke she is, she can't afford a trip like this. I'm making all this effort to go see her in a week, and it just really felt like a slap in the face. Grrrrr.
I kept it nice, but had a lot of things running through my head. She's really affecting my PMA.
Women don't sell their wedding ring. Well, I'm sure some women have, but no, she won't.
hello. i am wondering about your insight on women never selling their wedding ring. i am just curious because i have a WAW and i am scared to deatht that she will sell her wedding set. i am quietly and patiently and lovingly waiting for the day that she might put them back on...anything to help my confidence that she would not sell them would be appreciated.
Well, I think the ring represents the happy times. More than wedding pictures, and family vacations. The ring is very symbolic, and I doubt it would get sold. HOWEVER, some women who have been sep, and later reconciled wanted A DIFFERENT ring to symbolize the "new marriage".
Thanks ms b!
I think I've spent way too much time worry about W selling it, or the other financial stuff she's doing right now. I can't control that. Wren, I'll check your thread.
W called me on her way home to Houston and asked for help on the insurance stuff. I made a few calls, and they're still waiting for a form that was sent in June. It made me really angry, because I work a good job with great benefits, and they're BSing us. I need to stop procrastinating and get this rolling.
I also had to bite my tongue when W asked for help. Hopefully I'm growing through this.
OK, well, welcome back to the twilight zone. W asked if I would get an STD test. She didn't say much more, but I've had suspicions for a while. My doctor didn't have any more appointments before Thanksgiving, so it will have to wait. Not like the results would be back until after anyway. I'm kind of ambivalent about it, or maybe just don't know how to feel.
Leaving for Thanksgiving in a couple hours. We have some great plans for each day, and I hope it goes well. W has been very needy and sick this week.
I'm almost done with my life inventory in the recovery group. It's really been a beat-down, but good. Next step is to make amends to people I've hurt. I named like 30 people just from this divorce sitch, so that should be interesting.
And I went to a Song of Solomon conference last weekend. Really, really hard to be there alone, but I'm putting the stuff into action. Mark Driscoll led it, very different from the typical Christian-y stuff. I'll post a link later.
Happy Thanksgiving everyone!!!
And, here's the series I mentioned, that was condensed into the weekend conference. Quite a bit of "there's a verse about THAT in the Bible?" Very good for DB'ers, I think. Especially the oral sex;)
Preview (since taken down because it was so controversial):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5P1f22zos0Series:
http://www.marshillchurch.org/media/the-peasant-princess
Hi Jon! Hope you have a great weekend.
I'm a little confused about the STD thing. Why would she ask you to get tested? Did she test positive for something? I would think she would just get tested herself, and if she's clean, you're clean, right?
I'm a little confused about the STD thing. Why would she ask you to get tested? Did she test positive for something? I would think she would just get tested herself, and if she's clean, you're clean, right?
Well, that's what I'm afraid of. I think this was her way of telling me that she tested positive. I didn't pursue it further, and might not this weekend.
I was just thinking back to a year ago. SIL and W came and got the last of her stuff the day before Thanksgiving, and I went to be with my family. It was the most miserable time of my sitch, because it was the first holiday and everything reminded me of her.
Things are still crazy, but I'm in a much, much better place now. Whatever she decides, I'll be fine. And at the very least we get to have Thanksgiving together.
Thanks everyone, have a great Thanksgiving!
Be careful Jon. You deserve an explanation on why you need to test, and specificaly for what. Also, you may not test positive even if she did...so protect yourself this weekend (you know what I mean). But, if she is positive, she needs to tell you what she is positive for before you two make love.
Thanks ms b. She's having a reaction to some medication, so none of that this weekend anyway
Of course, it's probably all tied in, and the "medication" might be an STD she picked up. I think we'll get a chance to talk this weekend.
So, what about you? I can't find a ms b thread anywhere. What are you doing for Thanksgiving?
I'm going to my aunts house as always. We usually celebrate Thanskgiving with my family on the actual day and with my husbands family a few days later so we aren't running around to two different houses.
This year, I'm going to my aunts, my husband is working. Then, Saturday his family is celebrating. He will take the kids, and I will stay home. My first time not celebrating with them. Sucks. Even though we've been seperated for over a year, we always still did holidays together. This time though, he said he didn't want me there.
(((ms ladybug)))
Have a great time not working tomorrow!
I'm sure he'll be nice and miserable...
Quick update:
To make a long story short, I could tell things were going downhill at my company after Thanksgiving. Wanted to not be under the axe when it fell, so decided to not be on this forum or anything non-work related. Continued to work my recovery group.
Had good time with W over Thanksgiving and a nice San Antonio trip with her for Christmas, but was growing increasingly worried. The layoff happened January 9th, and I was walked to the door along with 41 other people from our office of 200. Very surreal. Got a *great* severance package.
That was when I really started thinking. What the hell am I so scared about? That me losing my job would stop any reconciliation efforts, be seen as a failure by W and her family, etc. Finally realized what BS that was.
Job searched like crazy, found a new job, and will start Monday. Very excited, but it's a pay cut and benefits don't start for 90 days. My severance package gave us benefits until the end of February, so only a 6-week gap. Problem is, COBRA is $1,000/month, so that could get interesting.
Much to my surprise, this has been just the shake-up the R needed. As long as I had the previous job and W on benefits, she could coast along. Now, I'm honestly asking questions. Should she even be on my new benefits?
She's not happy with my new job, but also shows little sign of wanting to stay married. So why should she have any say? She just spent a week here getting doctor's appointments in, with little results. Headaches are worse than ever, and she's understandably very frustrated. She even agreed to MC yesterday, but then her doctor changed an appointment, and that took priority. Still, she seems to be opening up to it.
I'm feeling stronger than ever, got the inventory (step #4) done, and shared it with my sponsor (step #5). I think this will head one way or the other soon, no idea yet.
Missed everyone!
Sorry things went bad with the job. Great about the severance package and the new job though.
You'll have to post some more details about where things are with W when you get a chance.
Hey Michelle! I will, it was very much a "twilight zone" week, I'm still processing. Will post later on tonight.
...we're waiting!!
Hi Jon, thanks for responding to my thread. We've both been at this for awhile.
Just a thought, with COBRA so expensive, could you just do a 90 lapse in insurance? I did a 30day lapse, and just prayed hard. 90 might be hard to do.
As far as putting w on new benefits...that's a tough one. Because of your wife ailments, she's going to need insurance. Is there anyway she can get it on her own? Perhaps now would be a good time for her to make some tough decisions? It's a big plus that she agreed to MC, and I'm sorry she wasn't able to go.
Keep us posted.
Well, quick update. Lost my new job after 3 months, sales was a really bad fit. Worked way too hard to make my numbers each week, and got canned the first week I didn't hit them. Also really hurt my DBing, and main reason I haven't posted here in a while.
In March we got a nice letter from the IRS, and W and I are being audited on '07 taxes. Yikes! Very fun in a year that we were separated from July on. Fortunately they're only looking at medical expenses, but it's still been a month of work. The audit is this Wednesday the 6th.
The audit really put our '08 taxes in a new perspective. I took an extension to figure things out, and looked into filing married separate, but that seems to be a nightmare in a community property state. So for now, figuring out how to keep meticulous records in case we get audited again.
Lots of mixed emotions right now. Why am I still trying here? W just signed a year lease in Houston, but neither of us want a D. The time spent together working on this audit has been very good. Definitely NOT what I would have chosen to bring us closer, but we'll see where this will all lead.
Want to catch up on everyone else, but it'll need to wait until after the 6th. Until then, hugs to everyone!
JON! So crazy to see this post. I thought of you this morning for some reason and was wondering what happened to you. I haven't been around the DB boards lately. It seems my sitch changes daily, and it's just too much to keep up with the posting.
Sorry about the job and the audit. I can only imagine what a headache that's been. Strangely enough, God can use this to work some good things in your situation. Not the way you may have planned, but God's got some big plans for you and your wife. Keep that in mind.
Glad to hear from you. Are you on fb? There's quite a few of us over there.
Good luck Wed. Keep us posted.
Hey! Glad to see a post from you.
Sorry to hear about the audit, although glad it forced you and W to spend some time together.
Thanks everyone! The audit went OK on the 2nd try. W got a really bad headache the first time and we had to call and reschedule for the next week. We owe them $3,000 but still have some time to prove more stuff. Trying to track W down on that.
Things have cooled off a bit with W since mid-March, but I think a lot of that was losing my job, twice, along with the audit. She mentioned wanting to do something next month around her birthday, the 21st. It's hard to do spontaneous things like we used to, but I'll find a way to do it. This is one of the reasons we fell in love, and I need to remember those things.
Reading everyone's threads has been great today, especially Lola's. I need to come here and post more often!
Good to see you post again :-)
MY UNEMPLOYMENT FINALLY CAME!
I waited 2 months for this, and was literally walking to the mailbox Friday with the paperwork to draw out my 401K when they finally called me. A few questions about why my last job let me go, and then I was cleared. Over $3K in the account today.
This has been one of the most stressful things I've ever gone through. They say that the unemployment rate isn't nearly as bad here in Texas as the rest of the country, but I'm skeptical. They were completely impossible to get ahold of since Easter. I also found out that my part-time job can be added on top of full unemployment, so that's also great.
Had a good talk with W today, we're going to schedule the final IRS meeting next week. Hopefully will prove some more deductions before getting on the payment plan.
Spent time yesterday and today reading through all of my threads. Very eye-opening. I definitely let the roller-coaster get to me from August through January. Reading this thread, I'm confused:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1396819It seems like we've been through three of the stages, but keep going backwards. The 2 lay-offs and waiting have definitely affected my PMA. It's been tough doing all this tax stuff with her and not keeping it light and fun. Need to get that back and set some goals.
I like this summary of the four stages. Honestly don't know what some of the phrases in stages 2 and 3 mean, didn't realize I was there when I got there. Need to brush up and re-read the book.
1. Reducing negative emotions
LRT (if needed)
ACT as IF
Avoid Cheeseless Tunnels
2. Reestablishing a relationship (friendship)
Real Giving
Communication skills (Change Anything, The medium is the message, better done than said...etc)
3. Realignment of romance
If it Works, Don't Fix it
Change Anything
Do a 180
4. Recommitment
Keeping the Changes Going
Well, had the second meeting with the auditor today. She gave us a month to come up with more proof before finalizing. Long story short, we proved another $5,000 in medical expenses and reduced our bill by $1,000! It was great. Hadn't seen W in 5 weeks, so I was apprehensive, but it was a very good time. We got manicures to celebrate! My first time, and W was surprised that I went along. It was fun.
I've been feeling really down and depressed with not having a job and not getting to see W, plus financial troubles. I read Michelle's "take care of yourself" article about working out every day and decided to do it for the last 3 weeks. It means getting up at 5:30 every morning, which I was very reluctant to do, but long story short I've lost 20 pounds! Not eating out because I'm broke helped also.
W couldn't stop commenting on how good I looked, it was nice. I want to keep it off this time. Going to a career connection deal at church tonight, should be good.
I feel good that we still seem to have a good friendship. Romance stage has definitely cooled off, which I find frustrating, but W has also been feeling terrible the last couple months. I want to keep working on myself and give it time.
Hi Jon,
Was wondering if you would be able to help me with some advice? It would be so gratefully appreciated!!! I've been reading about your sitch and it has given me some hope!! If you are too busy I understand....it's just that some people that have been on here for years are of course use to talking to the same people and I really could use someone with experience on DBusting!!!!
Thanks
Hey Lost!
Glad you find some hope from my sitch, that's something I'm not finding right now. I'll hop on over to your thread
Had good talk with W on Friday, she's getting a TV from her family for her birthday. I have a cable she needs that would cost $50, so I mailed it to her with a nice card. Was struggling with what to do on her birthday (today), and this was perfect. I told her about it last night so she wouldn't buy one, and it seemed to mean a lot to her. Nice talk again last night before I went to bed.
Several e-mails in the night of interesting things on Craigslist, etc., which is always an indication that she's thinking about me.
The career night at church was fantastic, lots of good advice about resumes, interviewing, etc. I have more hope in my job search now. Also played 75 holes of disc golf yesterday, great exercise and great time with a good friend. I still get very excited when W calls, and depressed when she doesn't, so I need to keep GAL and not be affected so much.
Hi Jon,
I don't know how to attach my thread to this.......or did you get a chance to look at my thread???? Don't know how to use the site yet! Wish I would hear from mine (H)! Still nothing!!!
Hey Lost! Easiest way is to click on someone's name and then "View posts". I think I found your most recent thread:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1789427&page=3Having a lot of negative thoughts today,
Good contact with W today, still helping her get her new TV set up. I'm upbeat when she calls and make sure I'm the one to end the convo. I've been reading Michelle's chapter on depression, and how her advice on that is the same as for everything else. Be patient, take care of yourself, get a life, etc. Need to keep doing that.
Just talked to W for the 4th time today! It's been nice. Making sure I'm the one who ends the conversation and appearing busy (because I am today) seems to be working. Glad to have more contact right now, but expecting some pullback.
Hi jon,
Yes, that is my most recent but did you get to read about my whole sitch???
How do I attach it like you did though???
I'm really happy that you had good contact with the W!!!! Keep up the great work!!!
Read the chapter on Depression in DR and got some great insight on Friday. Will write about it here later.
Fantastic GAL day yesterday. Took my canoe fishing with a friend early in the morning, then disc golf with another friend, then hanging out with some other new single friends.
I haven't spent much time with single people since my separation, so when invited to hang out with these guys and girls Thursday night at a pool party I felt awkward. They're my age, but I haven't done anything like that in a while. Got over feeling weird and had a great time. Actually thought about taking my ring off. LOL. Last night was more good time with them. They're all college friends who live together, but it feels like college again. Yesterday reminded me of some of the things I gave up when getting married. Why not take advantage of them now, instead of moping around?
W and I had a great talk late Friday night, and her curiosity seemed piqued by what I'm up to. Feels good.
Had a dream about W last night, our families were getting along and we were reconciling. Woke up feeling good. Wish it was more than a dream, but I can't remember having a good dream in months. GAL works!
Lost,
I'll definitely catch up on your whole sitch soon. I've read all the recent stuff. Keep it up!
Jon, glad you had a great time!!!! I feel so damn depressed because me or our daughter haven't heard anything from him since he sent her that card on June 8th!
What do I need to keep up???
Just keep on keeping on, and start posting what you're doing for YOU! Dealing with a depressed apouse is very long, tough work. I have some questions after reading your sitch. Will post on your thread.
Glad the meeting with the auditor went well. Sorry I wasn't around, gone for work for a while without much internet.
Glad you are working out and socializing.
You sound really good! Just keep taking care of yourself and doing things that make you smile!
The cable sounded like a very thoughtful and practical gift.
Glad she seemed to like it!
Hey Michelle!
I'm now focused on '08 taxes, due on the 15th. Just one thing after another.
It's been a very tough couple months. First I laid my Harley down because I had so much on my mind and wasn't paying attention. Can't afford to fix it right now, and it's killing me to drive the old truck again.
I'm working hard to keep my PMA and be confident, just had a lot happen at once. Yesterday at the gym I weighed in at 206. Very close to my goal of 200 already, need to set a new goal! Haven't felt this good since college.
W just called, our monthly IRS payment will be $44.28 for the next 5 years. So, we've got to figure that out. Looks like we'll be forced to have contact for quite some time, for better or worse. Time to act as if whenever I talk to her.
Feeling really good today, started with a 6:30 Bible Study with the worship team guys, and have been hanging out at church all day while I work my part-time job. Career coaching deal tonight. I need days like this.
Jon,
Glad you are doing good, and that you need to keep up the contact with W!!!
You are getting closer on all your goals! So happy to hear it! Keep working and keep up the PMA! You will get there SOON at this rate!
Thanks Michelle! About to head to the gym and keep working on my goal!
This weekend was hard, as the center of attention was my brother's new son. He's so cool. SIL and W had planned to have kids at the same time so that the cousins could be friends. I feel like the weird uncle who's out of place. Just need to get over it.
I might spontaneously go and see W tonight. Had some plans fall through back in Dallas. I've been wanting to do something spontaneous and light like we used to. We met on a whim back in March, but it's been all business since then.
I called W last night, asked if I could come visit because some plans fell through. She said "thank you, but no". she doesn't feel well, that this week isn't good, that spontaneous doesn't work well for her right now. Spontaneous was exactly what I was going for. Her headaches have really gone down hill, and it frustrates me because over the past year she's let me take care of her, but is pulling back from that now.
This morning she e-mailed me "Are you OK?"
I guess my disappointment came through over the phone. Need to detach and keep GAL. She just called lost in Houston and needed my help with directions. It was nice.
Looks like I'll be playing music for refugee kids at a camp in a couple weeks, very excited about it. My first thought was worry about what W would think. Need to stop worrying about that!
Jon, I answered your questions on my thread. Let me know what you think please.
Well, looks like pre-planned works better.
Sorry her headaches are bad.
SO EXCITED about the music things! That's awesome!
Jon, how are things going now since W emailed? Baby steps...she emailed and asked you if you were okay. She didn't have to do anything but she did. Be happy on that one. She could have asked someone else. I've had to since I have NO way of asking my H.
If you get a chance hop over to my thread, I wrote to you there.
I've got to admit it really hurt when W didn't want me to come visit last week. Met with my counselor last Wednesday and he said that's very disappointing, considering how little it would have required of her to let me visit. He said I need to respect her wishes and give her space.
Sunday night she texted while I was at church, again "you doing OK?" This comes across very condescending, and pisses me off. Still I called her, told her I was doing great. She said "well, I'm in a bad mood." I told her I could call later, but said I understand she's in a lot of pain but would like to talk to her anyway. We had a great talk. I can tell her migraines are really bad, but I'm the only one who understands what it's like, at least a little bit. I wish she would let me help her. The confidence paid off this time though.
Done some good GAL lately, including a poker tournament at church! LOL. I made it past the break and finished 40th out of 105 guys. So much fun. Also ran into a female friend from church at a concert Friday night, and had a great time. Friends even remarked that we were flirty together. I want to be careful with that, but it was definitely good for the PMA.
W has been e-mailing a lot lately, several times a day. Usually with some business excuse, but it's contact.
That's right Jon, it is contact so hang in there! Wish I had some contact. Wrote to you on my thread. Don't laugh.
Kim
All right, got to lead worship at my friend's church this morning, and off to camp tomorrow morning! Nervous, but excited. Haven't done anything like this in a while. Great plans the week after that also. No contact from W, but I'm cool with that. In two weeks I'll see if she's missing me and wants me to come visit. Have a great week everyone!
Have fun at camp!!!!!!!!!!
Hope you have fun. Let me know how it goes. Oh and Jon, thanks so much for your support on my thread. I just updated it again.
Thanks Michelle!
Things are great out here. Haven't done this in 7-8 years, and it brings back great memories. It's only 45 minutes from my house, and my old college roommate is the director. I think this is the start of a lot of good times.
Here's a Dallas Morning News article about what we're doing this week:
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/...mp.2cf2bd8.html
Hey Jon, just wanted to stop by. I havent caught up completely on your thread so forgive me if I missed something, but, it seems to me that your wife wants to be the one that does the contacting, so let her, ya know?
Hey BM,
I have gone a bit dark, but I wonder if it's really LRT time yet. W has definitely pulled back lately, but she's also feeling really bad, so I wonder if I should call her more?
Got a couple e-mails from W last night. She found an iPhone app that details AAA discounts close to your location. She doesn't even have an iPhone! We bought a AAA membership together a couple months ago. Very cool, and I really thanked her for that. Maybe I need to create more connections like that?
That was very nice of her.
What's the pattern - she withdraws when she has migraines? Has contacting her worked in the past? Try and notice the patterns, think about what has worked, and keep trying new stuff.
Need to do some thinking on that, Michelle. My sitch is bewildering, but I"m having too much fun at camp to think about it
Jon,
Are you home yet from camp? How was it?
Lost,
I'm back from week #2, week #3 is next week! Loving it. Made so many friends and renewed other old friendships. Also got to go to a church media conference the last couple days, made a lot more connections. My brother came in for it and we had a blast. I made a lot of connections for my part-time job, and I'm really starting to get excited because it could turn in to full-time.
So, a really great last couple weeks. Last night, a text from W "you alive?"
I responded "yep! How are you?"
W: "OK just checking"
This kind of exchange is really starting to piss me off. It comes across so condescending, like she's assuming I won't be OK on my own. If this is the only contact I get (which it has been lately), screw that. Oh well, just need to keep staying busy.
Have you not been contacting her?
What's the pattern?
Take it as a positive that she's reaching out at all!
And keep reacting in an upbeat way!
Michelle,
Thanks, I guess that is a small positive. I've been letting her contact me, and it's mostly about business stuff or contact like the above. After camp next week I'll need some help on adjusting strategy, if needed.
Got a text from W last night at midnight "You busy?"
I was having a great time with old college friends and had let my phone die. I'll try her back a little later tonight. Encouraged by the contact, but don't want to read too much into it.
My friends and I reminisced about a party we threw our senior year. We had a popular local band come play an acoustic set in our apartment and had a full espresso bar set up. It was, as we would say back then, "pimp". Had 40-50 people in there and listening outside. Afterwards, we were discussing the ladies who had made an appearance that night, including one named Lauren. One of the guys didn't know who she was, so I described the shirt she was wearing, etc. He said "oh, you mean the most beautiful woman in the room?" "Yes," I said "that's her." And right there I decided to ask her out. Didn't think she'd say yes, but she did, and the rest is history, although somewhat painful now.
I thought about mentioning that story if we talk tonight. Good idea? Bad?
Last Resort Techique
Here's a quick summary of LRT from DR, for a friend who called me tonight. I feel like I'm here again, so very good for me to remember as well!
1. Stop the Chase
Pursuing behaviors to stop:
- frequent phone calls
- begging your spouse to reconsider
- pointing out all the good in your marriage
- writing letters
- following your mate around the house
- encouraging talk about the future
- soliciting help from family members
- asking for reassurances
- buying gifts/flowers
- trying to schedule dates together
- spying on your spouse
Also, stop saying "I love you". Every time you do, you remind your spouse that the feelings of love aren't reciprocal at the moment
2. Get a Life
You are going through one of the most painful things you will ever experience, but the end result is that you are desperate and unattractive. You are competing with your spouse's fantasy of an ideal life without problems.
- Remember the reasons your spouse fell in love with you in the first place.
- Make immediate changes, become upbeat in your partner's presence, appear pleased with yourself and your own life
- on the phone, sound content, even bubbly
- start a new hobby
- go do things with friends
- keep yourself busy
- start being less predictable
3. Wait and watch
- pull back, wait to see if you spouse notices and realizes what she has been missing
Just got an e-mail saying "Michelle Weiner-Davis is now following you on Twitter". I've really been enjoying her feed. I don't post marriage stuff on Twitter out of respect for my wife, but responded and thanked MWD for all she does.
http://www.twitter.com/divorcebusting
Jon,
I agree with Michelle that is a positive thing. She is doing the contacting. If you get a chance I had my hearing today for child support modification for our D's braces.
Called W Saturday night, she was busy and asked if I could call later. I'll call her today about some tax stuff, but then it's back to camp for the rest of the week!
Things are great here. I'm enjoying work and that it's so flexible. I'm working from the metropolis of Ola, TX today, about 2 miles from camp.
http://bit.ly/2ivAlI'm thinking of calling W tomorrow to see if I can visit next week. It's been over a month. Any thoughts on that?
Long talk with W last night. Helped her shop for a laptop and we caught up for a while.
I asked if I could visit next week, and she said "I think next time I should come there. My family is dropping by a lot unannounced and I don't want it to be weird."
She later explained that SSIL (step-sister-in-law LOL) has been diagnosed bipolar and has been dropping by a lot. I told her that the three of us hung out a lot when SSIL first moved home in February. Everything was cool then. She said that FIL and MIL have been interrogating SSIL about W every time they hang out, trying to find out what W is up to.
So, basically, my W doesn't want me to visit because she doesn't want her parents to find out through her crazy step-sister. What the hell is going on? I'm so angry today. I wanted to say a lot of things like "don't you realize they know we spend time together?" This secretiveness drives me absolutely nuts.
I guess at root it's a lame excuse by W for not wanting to see me. Which doesn't make it any better. At least she said "next time" and the talk went well.
I guess at root it's a lame excuse by W for not wanting to see me. Which doesn't make it any better. At least she said "next time" and the talk went well.
Uh-uh. No. No way.
NO JUMPING TO CONCLUSIONS!!!!!
She has her own reasons for how she deals with her family.
Try and find the positive in the secretiveness - a little thrill, having a secret together, etc.
She said she should come visit you! Why are you getting hung up on why she'd rather come out to see you than have you go to her?
Michelle,
Mainly I'm just disappointed that it didn't work out this week. And I'm skeptical that with her headaches she'll actually make it here. But you're right need to look at the positives.
Had another good long talk today. She called for help with FIL's computer. I asked if he'd had his hip replacement done, and she said they were going to do that when he had a very scary heart incident. They almost had to do a bypass, but were able to solve it another way. She said it was very scary. So, another reason I haven't heard from her lately.
Later, I got an e-mail "thank you for your help and patience today." I responded "You're welcome, always nice to talk to you."
That's definitely something to add to the list of positives!
Had a great week, work was good and I got to record in the studio all day Friday! Got a text during church this morning ''can we do taxes Thurs / Fri this week, here?''
I called her later and we set up the details. It was a nice talk. So taxes are the excuse, but I'm still super excited. Just a week ago she didn't want me to visit at all. Need help setting some goals for the trip and managing expectations.
Another interesting sitch, a guy messaged me on FB, saying he watched a video from my school and I was in it, thought about me, asked how things are going. This is a guy who liked and tried to date W in college, but let's just say I won
Cool guy, but this is one of a few specific people from college that W forbid me to contact, saying they were her friends first and I only knew them through her. That pisses me off, but I don't want to rock the boat unnecessarily. I told him things were good and thanked him for writing, but that I couldn't give more details right now. Thoughts?
Glad you two are getting together again! A good opportunity to show her what she's missing out on.
Interesting about this guy contacting you.
Also interesting about what you posted on my thread - the old youth pastor saying how angry he was at you until he heard your side of the story of the situation with your W. I am glad he was open to hearing you out.
W called at 5:00 AM, she was dizzy and disoriented and sounded scared. I got the VM at 7:30 and called her back. She asked if I noticed a pattern when this would happen while we were together. She mentioned how much I helped her back then. Nice to hear that, most of what I've heard the last two years has been ''I never needed much help I just wanted you to feel better'' BS. Maybe she's thinking? I'll find out this week.
Our 4-year anniversary is Wednesday and I'll see her on Thursday. Thought about buying her tickets to our favorite band. Should I even mention it?
Very interesting developments here. W told me she had a second test come back abnormal for cervical cancer, so today they're doing a biopsy. Because, you know, what she needs is more medical problems. She said it's supposed to be really painful so she won't be in a good mood when I come in. Great.
I took a risk and asked if I could take her to the appointment. She declined, but said it was a nice offer. No big deal, I'm in Austin today moving my little brother into college. Ten years to the day after I did. Crazy.
Text from W late last night ''ceviche and margaritas at my favorite place?'' Sounds good to me. We discovered 'ceviche on our honeymoon four years ago. Maybe I won't say it to her, but Happy Anniversary to me!
Hmmm, just remember if you buy the tickets, no expectations. Meaning you can't be disappointed if she doesn't ask you to go with her!
I think the anniversary is on her mind too lol. Nice texts and convos from her!
Happy Anniversary to you too.
*fingers crossed* I hope your W's tests come back okay! That has to be so stressful and scary for her.
Hmmm, just remember if you buy the tickets, no expectations. Meaning you can't be disappointed if she doesn't ask you to go with her!
I think I'll wait to see if she wants to come, then buy the tickets. No pressure that way.
Hey John,
Let me know if you are wanting to be part of our prayer group in Dallas once FaithfulH finishes his move here.
Kevin
Hey Kevin, I'm in! Almost to Houston, will hop over to your thread after the weekend.
It was a good visit overall. I need to keep telling myself that.
Wednesday, I was surprised to see SSIL there when I arrived. She's the one that lives with W's parents and gets grilled about how W's doing. It was awkward at first, but I took them out for ceviche and then a movie. Even agreed to see "Julie and Julia", and ended up enjoying it. W was very appreciative, and SSIL also.
Thursday we relaxed, spent some time by the pool, and started taxes a bit. W took a nap in the afternoon and woke up very freaked out from one of her nightmares. She didn't want me sleeping in her room this visit and gave that as the reason. She asked if we could go for a drive, and we tried a great Vietnamese place near her apartment, went shopping for several household items for both of us, and then visited old town Spring, a cute little town near Houston. She told me many childhood memories while we were there. We came back and watched "Misery", a great old Stephen King flick with Kathy Bates. The cool thing about this was that I got W's laptop running perfectly through her new TV, which she'd been unable to do. Now she can watch Netflix's online selection that way.
Friday morning she had another doctor appointment, and we worked on taxes the rest of the day. It was tough. We were able to work things out, but there are some touchy subjects like the tax she needs to pay to Louisiana from a gas well she owns there. I told her I don't see any of that money, so I shouldn't pay the taxes.
The whole visit, she had been very negative, and picking at me constantly. She still doesn't like the job I'm working, or the different music stuff I'm doing. But with what she's going through I guess this can be expected. I thanked her Friday afternoon for trying to be nice, even with the tough doctor's appointments and everything. She said "I promised I would try".
Lots of other little things I'm still processing, but then, right when I was ready to leave, I made what feels like a big mistake. I had planned on mentioning the FB message from our friend, and that I need to contact her sister and some other friends to make amends in the recovery steps I'm going through. SIL has been through it as well and will completely understand. I knew it might not go well, but she really blew up and asked me to leave.
As I drove away, I got a text "we can finish taxes over the phone and e-mail. You are not welcome here any more". Ouch. I texted back that I didn't express that well, that I have some contacts that need to be made but I won't badmouth her or make her look bad in any way.
Today I'm really torn up about this. These are friends who have contacted me, who W has completely cut off contact with, but she still forbids me to be in touch with them. I honored that the whole last year, but don't feel it's reasonable any more. At the same time, I value R with W so much more than them. And I feel like I ruined a great visit by bringing it up. I suck at this.
I'm reading through a book on children of alcoholics, and it applies so perfectly to the sitch. The biggest rule in families like W's is "there's nothing wrong with our family and don't you dare talk about it". Also, the kids are forced to be responsible adults early in childhood, and later on get tired of being responsible. It's scary how well this stuff describes W.
The weekend was very good. Disc golf tournament on Saturday, Sunday was packed. Played at church, then fantasy football draft, then staff reunion at the camp I worked at, then watched my friend DJ at a club. So maybe I'm just tired today, but I'm really down.
Do I just leave W alone now? Apologize? Don't know what to do.
You basically already apologized via text right?
I'd leave it be for a while.
Has waiting a week or two and reaching out with a gift or nice note been received well in the past? If so, then do so.
Look back and see what kind of waiting periods have worked - 1 week vs 2 vs 3.
Remember, do what works.
Why did you know the conversation wouldn't go well? Could you have picked a time or place that might have made it more likely to go well?
You basically already apologized via text right?
Well, kinda. I didn't say I'm sorry, I was wrong, any of that. I'm terrible at that. Need to go back and read 5 languages of apology again.
I'd leave it be for a while.
Has waiting a week or two and reaching out with a gift or nice note been received well in the past? If so, then do so.
Look back and see what kind of waiting periods have worked - 1 week vs 2 vs 3.
Remember, do what works.
I'll have to think about that. This is such a different period in my sitch. We haven't gone more than 2 weeks without contact during the 2 years of separation, I don't think. Will write more on this later.
Why did you know the conversation wouldn't go well? Could you have picked a time or place that might have made it more likely to go well?
I didn't think it would go this badly, but W has been very protective of this group of friends, and her family. It's almost like she wants to punish me and make me think they all hate me. When I actually do have contact with them, like these Facebook messages, that's not the case at all. In fact, W has cut herself off from all these friends. One of them told me "so, she won't talk to us, but she says you can't talk to us either?" He was very upset about it.
Somehow W is still trying to be secretive and keep up appearances. Basically my message to her was I'm not going to let her control who I have contact with. Friends I've talked with today think that this was a good thing. I'm unhappy with the timing and leaving on a bad note, but any other time during the visit wouldn't have been any better.
The rollercoaster is really getting to me, mainly because last week was so nice and made me remember how much I miss W. We got some great things done around her place, like putting in stepping stones by her parking spot for when it rains. Realizing I probably won't see her for a few more weeks is really tough.
You are right on! She is trying to keep up appearances.
She wants you to think she's hanging out with all these friends and doing the things she said she was going to do. Instead, she is sick with migraines a lot.
Not really ideal for either of you.
I TOTALLY agree she can't tell you who to talk to. The issue is how to address that w/o an argument. Which may not be possible.
The key for coming back is to make sure that the next few interactions are positive!
Every R has it's arguments, whether friends/lovers/family, even co-workers.
Just remember: it's not about how far you fall, the important thing is how high you bounce! (I forget who said that but it's one of my favorite quotes, mostly cuz of the amusing visual I get)
Thanks Michelle! I'm really hoping for some positive interaction soon. But I've had fun this week to get my mind off things. Watched Inglorious Basterds two nights ago and District 9 last night, fun guy nights. Making up for the chick flicks last week LOL.
Had a good meeting with my boss today, still not sure if he can bring me on full-time when my unemployment runs out in 6 weeks, so I need to have other options. I hear they've been extending unemployment here in Texas, so hopefully I'll get that.
Hi. I'm familiar with the book you're reading. It really applied ot my x too.
Take every possible opportunity to be positive and happy with her.
Glad you're having some fun.
Hey rinse! I need to hop on over to your thread.
Talked with W briefly on Friday, after getting advice some several people. The concern is that W needs to know she's more important to me than these other relationships. I told her that, then she said "I need to go".
Then she sent a text "Do what you need to do. If there's something important to discuss, I would still prefer to email".
I responded "Sounds good. Have a good weekend."
So, here we go, the pull-back. One of the guys here at church talked about how her whole life has been keeping up an appearance of everything being OK. Counselors call it the "fig leaf". When she lets me in a little bit, she'll get scared and realizes her fig leaf is showing, so she'll push me away and retreat back. Then she'll start feeling lonely and realize her life isn't working out, and let me back in, only to repeat the cycle. Helps me to remember that.
Counselors call it the "fig leaf". When she lets me in a little bit, she'll get scared and realizes her fig leaf is showing, so she'll push me away and retreat back. Then she'll start feeling lonely and realize her life isn't working out, and let me back in, only to repeat the cycle. Helps me to remember that.
For future reference.
Not much going on here, NC since the phone call a week ago. Just trying to hang in.
Quick text from W on Tuesday asking when we changed insurance carriers. I responded and she said "thanks". Hanging in.
Question to my DBing friends. I just talked to a nurse friend who said that W should definitely have her cervical biopsy results by now. They did it on August 19th, our anniversary. She said usually a week, but not longer than two.
My friend was really surprised that W hasn't called me. Really hurting over this. I don't want her to think I don't care, but I'm not feeling that a conversation would go very will tonight. Will probably call her tomorrow. Thought?
Any word yet?
How do you think a concerned text would go over? "Hey, just wanted to check in and see how you're doing. Hope you're well."
Michelle, I think that might be a good idea, though when W text me like that it comes across condescending. Maybe that's just the way I take it, but I think "of course I'm doing OK, you think I'll fall apart or something?"
What do you think about asking directly about the test results through text?
Well, I finally called W yesterday morning. She sounded busy, and told me she couldn't talk long. I asked how her tests went, and she said they came out negative, but they'll need to watch it closely for a while. Good news!
She said "thanks for checking on me, that means a lot". Later, she called and left a VM, apologized for being in a hurry and explained more fully. She never leaves VM. Interesting.
I went to a free show by a band called The Polyphonic Spree, which was incredible. They're originally from Dallas, but based out of L.A. now.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyphonic_spreeAt 12:15, I got a text "can you talk?" I called her, and she said her head was really hurting. We ended up talking for an hour. I learned that she's been out of town for a month visiting her sister in New York. It was a great trip. So, that explains a lot. She's been too busy to feel lonely.
The talk was very nice, talked about Grey's Anatomy starting back up, and other things we enjoy doing together. I even took a risk and invited her to the State Fair, which starts this weekend. She said "I don't think that's going to happen", but it was a very half-hearted rejection. For a night, I didn't get the Ice Queen treatment. Borrowed the book "Horse Whisperer" from a friend, I feel like it really applies here. Wrote about that earlier in my thread and need to find it.
Taxes are due October 15th, so I'll need to get started on them soon. Not this weekend though, I'll be having too much fun!
Hi Jon,
Sounds like things are getting better for you. I'm really happy for you.
Hi Jon,
Sounds like things are getting better for you. I'm really happy for you.
Doesn't feel like it from here, but thanks for the encouragement!
W called yesterday, she needed help with some computer stuff for her upcoming family reunion. I already knew about it because the invitation came to my house. I joked about that and was light, but she apologized and told me to keep forwarding everything to her. Her expectation that everyone in her life will act as if I never existed bugs me, but only because it's so unrealistic.
Good talk overall.
Hi Jon...it does seem like you are getting some positives, and yet it also seems like things are kind of at a stand still. You are looking at being separated more than two years now, so I wanted to ask if you have done anything to shake things up lately.
How long has it been since you saw her?
Lola,
I saw her last on our 4th anniversary, August 19th. She spent a month in upstate New York after that. Isn't that where you are?
I shook things up quite a bit, by telling her she couldn't control who I talk to any more. So, that didn't work so well. I just read a great blog post by MWD, trying to figure out how it applies to my sitch:
http://divorcebusting.wordpress.com/2009/09/28/cheeseless-tunnels/
Well, here we go. Yesterday she called and texted. I was busy, but called her back later. Her computer told her to contact tech support, and she said "you're my tech support, I'm calling you." There was a softness in the way she said that. Very different from the last few months. I tried to help but it turns out she needs a Windows CD. I offered to mail her mine, and she said she really appreciated it. I ran into issues getting it in the mail, called to apologize, and she said "taxes are due next Thursday, right? How about I come in, and we do them, then go to the State Fair?
I told her that would be great. So, my little hint dropped a week ago worked. State Fair should be a blast. It's Texas-OU weekend, they play at the Fair and it's always fun times here in Dallas.
Now that it's sinking in that she's coming, I'm scared to death. It's been so long. Had some guys over tonight to play music, and worked all day on the house to get ready. I've really let things go around here. Without W coming into town, it's hard to get motivated. But now my place feels nice, and I'm enjoying sitting here. I need to be confident and have a good time next week.
Last week I tore through "The Horse Whisperer". Wow. Highly recommended for everyone here. Several parts really got to me, especially where it says that we inflict the deepest pain on those we love the most. The daughter realizes that her silent treatment is really getting to her mother, who's always been buried in work before. At one point, she has a good day training the horse, and starts chatting with her mother about it. It feels like old times, and the mother tries to act nonchalant and not overreact. Then, the daughter remembers that she's supposed to hate her mom and not be nice, so she goes back to her old behavior.
Sound familiar to anyone? I can't take these rollercoaster swings any more, because the good times make me remember how much I miss my W. But i know it reminds her as well. We'll see what happens next.
Oh sweetie thats great!!! How long has it been since you have seen her?
It's been 6 weeks. Just got a text asking if I'm busy Sunday night. I told her she's welcome then. I do have a U2/Muse concert Monday night, but I think she'll enjoy the night to herself. So excited to see U2! I'll be remembering MichelleLT's threads the whole time
W texted that she'll come Sunday, that her laptop battery just arrived and she's excited.
I responded: "Great, we'll get your laptop up and running in no time"
Then I took a chance, and added "Dallas misses you". This goes back to our long-distance dating when I lived in Dallas and she was two hours away. I was nervous how she would respond.
Her response: ":-) cute see you then"
I liked this from the DB twitter today:
"Train yourself to notice the baby steps in your relationship and allow positive feelings when they occur."
Now she wants to come in Saturday, and I won't be back from camping until Sunday. Strange, there must be something going on in Houston she really wants to get away from.
I think it's good that I'm camping, need to get away and I'm getting anxious with all these sudden changes. I realized she hasn't stayed a night here in 9 months. Wow. Fighting to keep my expectations low and just have a good time. I'm leaving her a letter "so glad you're here", but no flowers or anything. Will update when I can.
I think it is good that you are camping too. Don't deviate from your plans, have a great time camping, and keep us posted. Might want to reconsider the note...
Wow! I go on a hiatus and your W comes to visit! LOL
Keep focused on the baby steps - and there are TONS!
Can't wait to hear how this week has been going.
Thanks so much for the support!
I left the note, left a couple lamps on for her, and took off to go camping. My friend's wife heard the sitch and asked "why in the world would you go camping when she's coming to visit?" My friend reminded her that this was last minute and it's better if I continue with my plans and show her I have a life. This couple has been through a recent affair and separation, and they get it. So cool to have friends like that.
Camping was great. Definitely what I needed because I had been growing very anxious over W's visit. By Saturday morning I had decided to cut it short, and my friend agreed. Give her some time to settle in but be back late evening. So all we missed was one morning of camping, no big deal.
W texted me at 3:00 that she had arrived, that the place looked good, and she was going to take a nap. I told her that the sheets were fresh, and that I'd be back at 10:00. Other nice texts during the day.
I got home earlier than expected, around 8:30, and took her out for dinner to our favorite Italian place. When we got back she was ready for bed, and I went to fill up my air mattress for myself. She asked in a quiet voice if I'd share the bed with her instead. This was huge. It's been over 5 months. I played it cool, didn't cuddle or anything, but that changed in the middle of the night, at her initiation...
Sunday we were supposed to go to the State Fair, but it was rainy and cold. Weather report was completely off. After breakfast, she said "well I guess we need to do taxes then." This ticked me off, after I cut short my camping trip and everything, and now she wanted to turn it into a work day. It's a strange tension when we're together, her wanting to be all business and me wanting to have a good time as well and build the relationship. She'd mentioned that she needed to leave on Tuesday, so I kept that in mind.
We talked about it and agreed to relax for a while and get some work done later in the evening. We went to our favorite Mexican place, and she mentioned some other of "our favorite places" we could visit over the next couple days. Good sign.
In the evening, I spent a couple hours fixing her laptop, and was successful in the end. It was very messed up, and I was worried she'd need a new one. While I did that, we chatted and she noticed that she still has dates back to 2004 on her Centro. So she proceeded to read them off, most involving me of course. This was interesting, I felt like asking "how do those make you feel?" or something like that, but decided not to. Just made comments here and there about things I remembered.
After the computer was fixed, and some taxes done, we celebrated by going out for hot chocolate and watching Sunshine Cleaning. I had Redboxed it, but she had already seen it three times, and made her sister watch it. She still really wanted to see it again. Great, great movie. And I got sad watching it, realizing that W lost her mom to cancer early in our marriage, but really several years before that in the divorce. Her mom's death was really the start of our downhill slide. She didn't want to deal with it and I didn't know how to help her. She still feels alone every time a mother-type situation or question comes up.
My friend called me in the evening, saying he had an extra floor ticket for Monday's U2 concert. Wow! He suggested I sell my nosebleed ticket and take his extra. W helped me try and find a buyer on Craigslist, couldn't come up with anything.
Sunday night was great, same result as before. I wondered if she would feel taken advantage of or there would be some backlash, but there didn't seem to be any. There's a big word that starts with an O, and it can be hard for W. She has such a hard time shutting her head off and enjoying the moment. Wasn't a problem either night this time.
Monday morning we worked on taxes, but got frustrated because there's still so much work to do. We're sending our receipts to an automated scanning service, Shoeboxed.com, but there's still a lot of work to do after that. Taxes are just a nightmare in our sitch. And I'm getting worried that we won't hit the 7% mark where we can deduct medical, so all this tracking and work will be for nothing. She left for a 1:00 doctor's appointment, which turns out had been the main reason she scheduled her plans around, and things were tense. She made a comment that we both procrastinate about this stuff. I told her we could work on them more in the afternoon until my concert, and again on Tuesday.
After she left, my friend called and he was driving from Austin to the show. Another friend of ours had agreed to buy my ticket. I quickly called W and explained that parking at the new Cowboys stadium is $75 and I really needed to ride with my friends. The only other option was to have her drop me off, which she didn't want to do. She got very upset, said "I'm not coming to Dallas for this again. We have a deadline here and you need to make a choice." I told her this concert had been planned for a long time. She got off, then texted "thanks for fixing my computer, call me tomorrow when you get a chance".
This brought a difficult choice. It's obvious she was leaving, and I hated that. I so rarely get to see her. I really didn't want this to end badly, but couldn't cancel my plans either. I felt so torn about it. I had my friends stay in the area for a bit while I waited for her to get back from the doctor. When she did, we had a good talk. I told her a U2 show isn't just show up at 7:00, it's really an all-day event, and I should have told her earlier. Also showed her more tax work I had done and how we could finish it together over the phone. She softened and said she'd originally been planning to leave right after her doctor's appointment any way, so this was OK.
As I was leaving to meet my friends I noticed for the first time a bottle of wine had been placed in the fridge. So, I guess W had been planning some craziness going into the weekend. Interesting;)
The U2 show was absolutely amazing, definitely one of those bucket list moments. And I'm going again in Oklahoma on Sunday! Great time with friends, and I didn't rearrange plans much for W, but didn't make her feel unimportant either. This really was a terrible time for her to come into town, but we made it work.
Hopefully it won't be long until the next time, but for now I'm worried about a salary negotiation with my boss, and taxes due, both on Thursday. Yikes!
Wow!!! That's a lot to pack into a few days!
Lots of positives, some tough moments but it sounds like the communication was pretty good - so that's also a positive too!
Just focus on getting through this week and your GAL stuff.
She might pull back, or not. But regardless, you are going to make it a productive and fun week!
SO jealous about the U2 concert! The closest they came to me was 8 hours away, on a weekday night. Couldn't make it work unfortunately.
Yep, I'm still recovering. Played in Hold 'Em tournament at church last night as well. Made it to the final table and finished fourth! Spent quite a while at the gym and hot tub the last couple nights, still sore after standing for 12 hours. Guys at church are calling it the Bono Hangover.
My ex-girlfriend just sent me a friend request on FB, makes me feel strange. Dated her right before we both married other people. FB is a strange place for me, because my status still says Married but I have no pics with W up, so it's pretty obvious something's up. And according to my C I need to honor W's request and tell people as little as absolutely possible. I've made some long-term friends here as well, and eventually want to find you all in the alt. Just a bit strange right now.
All right, off to bed.
At first, I used my "normal" facebook page to friend people here. Then it got complicated, too many people, I was worried about STBXH finding out about this site, etc.
So, I created a second account using my screen name here with the privacy VERY locked down and friended everyone on that. A bit more effort to maintain two accounts, but took some of the stress off. Just an option.
The Bono Hangover would so be worth it though lol.
(((Jon))) Have a good end to the week!
At first, I used my "normal" facebook page to friend people here. Then it got complicated, too many people, I was worried about STBXH finding out about this site, etc.
So, I created a second account using my screen name here with the privacy VERY locked down and friended everyone on that. A bit more effort to maintain two accounts, but took some of the stress off. Just an option.
The Bono Hangover would so be worth it though lol.
Dealing with another Bono hangover today. Went to the State Fair Friday and Saturday, got to watch #3 Texas beat Oklahoma, then went to Oklahoma's stadium for U2 on Sunday night. Fun couple days. Just got back to Dallas, time for a nap.
I like that FB strategy actually. I think I'll do that. Keep things separate and more manageable. My actual FB is driving me nuts these days, just had my ex friend me and I don't want to accept it. We both married other people right after dating each other, and W has noticed there's still a "what if" in my mind with this ex. Definitely don't want her as my FB friend. Just going to cool it over there for a while.
Interesting emotions today. Learned that U2's song "One" was about The Edge's divorce. Gave it a whole different meaning during the show. Did some Wikipedia searching today that confirmed it. Just never made a connection on all this.
Found that there are 3 videos for the song on my U218 DVD, the transvestite version, buffalo version, the restaurant. There's also an extra explaining all three. Watching all of them today, I'm wondering where I stand on all this. We've had good interaction lately. The fair was fun, but not as fun without her, and we have a lot of memories there. I texted her that a bag she bought me got me in the fair for free as they sponsored that day. She responded "your murse? Haha."
These are fun interactions, and some positives are happening. I just wonder if too much time has passed, and too much has happened. Seems to be what the song is talking about as I understand it now. I guess time will tell. The possibility still scares me that we were too different from the beginning, and that 2 1/2 years of trying since separation is for nothing. Maybe I really need to let her go and see what happens from there.
At the Fair on Saturday, they had a horse whisperer, just like in the book. It was absolutely amazing. I got there 20 minutes early, to see him leading a horse into the ring. The horse started going nuts, bucking like I've never seen. He calmly kept her reigned in, and said "I guess the show's starting early".
He explained that she had freaked out for some reason. Probably something with the stirrup. But feeling his calm and experience, and seeing that the other horses didn't go crazy had started to calm her already. "She's a good horse, but she just needs to figure out a few things right now." He worked with her for 45 minutes, watching every muscle twitch and explaining what he was reading. By the end he had a 14-year-old girl volunteer from the crowd riding her. Amazing. I had to wipe away some tears the corner. Such a picture what DBing is like.
Sounds like a great weekend!
That explains why those lyrics always touched me. I used them for a bunch of my thread titles lol. I guess they were more apt than I realized.
That explains why those lyrics always touched me.
I thought the same thing. Amazing.
Nice text from W this evening, saying that Norah Jones was on Dancing with the Stars tonight. We loved listening (and making out to) her music during our dating. In fact, I had just heard a song of hers at a coffee shop and it reminded me of that.
I'm still working on our taxes, didn't make the October 15th extension deadline, but it looks like we'll get a return! A whopping $4 at this point, but better than the $2,000 we owed before working through the deductions. We're both very apprehensive about it after being audited once already.
Called W about 11:00 and updated her, then talked about the fair for a while. She seemed detached or busy, so I cut the talk short. Even that, though, is progress. Not going to waste my time if she doesn't feel like talking.
I've been thinking a lot about the fair. I had thrown the idea out to her over a month ago, and can tell she'd thought about it ever since. She knew what the most popular foods were this year, and a whole lot of other stuff I didn't even know. I need to plant another seed like that and see what happens. Maybe something to do with the holidays? We spend Thanksgiving and Christmas together last year, but I know that isn't going to happen. I will be in Houston with family anyway for Thanksgiving, so might try and visit while I'm there. That's a ways away though. Any thoughts?
Hmmm maybe work in somehow that you'll be in Houston over Thanksgiving. Then let her mull that over and see what she says? You can always bring it up again if it gets close and she hasn't said anything about it.
Good for you on cutting the call short.
Yep, lots of holiday talk here on the DB forums, has me thinking about it. I'll probably casually mention it soon. Thanks for the advice Michelle.
Jon, do you live in Austin or Dallas?
Kevin
Kev,
I'm in Dallas. Hometown is Austin.
Jon
Jon2911,
I live in Addison. Also SoCo, IRMAC, Fightin4mywife, and FaithfulH live in the Dallas area as well. It would be great if we could form a local DB support group here and all meet at dinner sometime.
Let me know your thoughts,
Kevin
Yes definitely! I'm in the White Rock Lake area, used to work up in Addison.
Things have been a bit crazy, but good. Got to see one of my favorite bands do their last U.S. show this weekend. They're called Delirious and they're from the UK. Amazing time.
Also started a new part-time job at a church, helping a new worship pastor who just arrived from California. He has no network here so I'm helping him lead on Sundays and finding musicians for him. Really right up my alley and it's going well. Also got to do lunch with him and the pastor, and briefly told them about my sitch. That would be a deal-breaker most places but they had a positive reaction. Cool.
Stayed up way too late watching the U2 broadcast Sunday night, and I'm still tired. My boss was taking a while to get back to me on salary stuff, and I was getting nervous, but then Saturday a letter came saying I qualify for extended unemployment. Told my boss, and he said that's great timing. He's had a lot of unexpected tax burden this month and can't pay me full-time yet. It's nerve-wracking being in the entrepreneurial-startup world, but I love it, and we have a great relationship. So I'll be taking Uncle Sam's money for a little while longer, have no problem with that.
I think I might text W soon about Thanksgiving, been so busy I haven't thought much about it. Nothing from her since last week.
Strange turn of events today, got a call around noon from W asking how the taxes were going, and saying she'd be coming through Dallas Friday or Saturday and could sign them then if that would work. I told her that would be fine, that I had weekend plans but we could work something out. She asked it Friday 2-4 would work, I told her I have lunch plans and evening plans, but we could meet at 3:00. She kept saying "well, don't cancel your plans."
After I got off, thought about how awkward the conversation went, and if she might want to stay longer. I called back and told her she's welcome to stay the night. She said "I think it's best if I head out". Whatever the hell that means.
I don't want to drop plans for her, but my Friday night plans could easily be moved to Saturday. In fact, I already called the guy and told him the sitch, and he completely understands. He's actually a bit jealous, because his W wants nothing to do with him, and their divorce recently went through.
So, here's my plan. I'm feeling confident and things have been going well lately. I'll be relaxed and see if she'll stay for dessert or a drink, then see what happens. No big deal, I have plans if she really wants to leave. Spent time on my house today just in case. I really don't care either way, which is a change for me and maybe she'll sense that. Should be fun.
Also, some time during the convo I'll mention that I'll be in Houston around Thanksgiving, but leave it at that. I'll leave it up to her to bring it up over the next month. My friend gave me this idea today, and I like it.
Anyone else have any thoughts?
So, W just left. It was a good, but short visit. Hanging with a friend now, glad I didn't cancel the plans.
I met her at a Starbucks, made sure I was cleaned up and looking nice, and was using my new Apple mouse. This thing is sweet, and she liked it. So I was feeling confident and that was nice.
We finished the taxes, signed them, and then went to Sprinkles for cupcakes. I think there's only one in Texas, and W likes it. I mentioned quickly that if she stayed in town, we could watch Saw tonight, and she said "thanks, but no". She mentioned a couple times that she hoped she didn't ruin my plans for the day, that she knew this was late notice. I also figured out that she's been in Dallas the last couple days, doing who knows what. Kinda bugs me, but whatever.
As she was leaving, she said "it was really nice to see you." It seemed genuine. And that was that.
Great video posted by MWD today.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AErbVUDLoRYThis is so hard to do! I think I did a good job today. W is so skittish and I could tell she wasn't feeling well, but she got comfortable after a little while.
I'm still thrown when she does these surprise visits, she did one exactly a year ago, just called me at work and asked me to lunch. What? You're in Dallas? Oh well, things are definitely up to her right now.
I also mentioned that I'll be in Houston for Thanksgiving, and didn't say anything more. She gave me some advice to not just show up without providing anything, and I thanked her for that. It feels like a slap, but this is just how W operates.
W has a month now to bring it back up if she wants to. Last year she was so tired of her family after SIL's wedding that she wanted to just spend Thanksgiving with me. That seems like so long ago. Oh well, we'll see.
Texted W to make sure she made it home OK. She responded "yes, thanks for asking. Will print tomorrow and let you know". Time to leave her alone for a while.
Jon,
I'm not fully caught up on your sitch, but question... why are you doing taxes now?
Also if you would like to email me so we can start pulling this group together and I will put it so that it does not pull up on here if a search is done.
My email is "kevin" "4" "dallas" at yahoo.com. So just take out the quotes and put it together. I had contact with Fightin4mywife tonight. I am going to give him a call tomorrow. He is wanting to get together and form a group.
Kevin
Kevin,
Cool!
We filed an extension, so that took it to October 15th, but I wasn't ready then either. Our taxes are extremely complicated as my W owns part of a gas well in Louisiana. That sounded cool when we got married, not so much now. And we've already been audited once, so makes it a lot more nerve-wracking.
We ended up getting a whopping $24 refund. Which is good because I don't think getting them in late matters at all.
Nice e-mail from W today, she sent me an article about weird Halloween costumes. So she's thinking. I know it's not much, but I'll take it.
Interesting that she dropped by.
Glad you guys got to meet and finish some business and chat.
Glad you got to drop the hint about Thanksgiving too.
Time to GAL and choose to wait.
Jon,
We are looking at trying to get together this saturday night. Are you up for it?
Kevin
jon,
I sent an invitation to everyone to meet at Los Lupes on belt line rd in addison this Saturday November 7th at 6pm. If I don't hear from you before then and you decide you can make it, just ask for the divorce busting group when you arrive.
We would love to have you if you can make it.
Kevin
Jon, if you read this, I have to cancel tonight, but I will reschedule and keep you in the loop.
Kevin
Thanks Kevin! I've been laying low, working on my life story for Recovery group. Gave it last Thursday, it was an amazing, but very tough experience. This isn't where I wanted to be in my story by the time I got to give it. But I started out by being honest about that.
Practicing with a new band for a Dec. 6th gig, and enjoying both of my jobs. No word from W about Thanksgiving, which is really bothering me when I stop to think about it, but just trying to keep going.
Just keep going.
You'll probably hear from her at the last minute (that seems to be her pattern when she's feeling unsure I think).
Just take it one day at a time.
Good for you on the band stuff!
Just keep going.
You'll probably hear from her at the last minute (that seems to be her pattern when she's feeling unsure I think).
Good observation. I HATE that. Oh well. I'll be in Houston anyway, and she knows that.
Interesting, while we were driving around last time she visited, I was angry about the economy, taxes, etc. She said "don't you pray this prayer every week? Take this sinful world as it is, not as I would have it. Trusting that You will make all things right".
Wow, yes we do. I love the Serenity Prayer. I guess she heard that from SIL. It's hard for me to believe that she can see BIL and SIL, and how happy they are because they've dealt with their past. She's still not ready. So I guess she just needs to be miserable for a while longer.
I can tell she wants to be with me so badly, but is convinced that she shouldn't be. That's what's so hard, our visits aren't just cold, I can see the battle within her. Which means there's still hope.
I can tell she wants to be with me so badly, but is convinced that she shouldn't be.
What do you think is still telling her that?
If you aren't sure, is there a way you can ask her without it turning into an argument or a non-productive R convo?
What can you do to change her perception of those issues?
Go back to the real basics. What were the reasons she left? What is still keeping her away? And tackle them. You have given her time, you have made changes, and while you are seeing baby steps, it never hurts to reevaluate your progress.
Happy Thanksgiving Jon,
Kevin
Jon, I am trying to pull together another get together this coming Tuesday December 8th for dinner. If you read this and are interested, please let me know.
Kevin
What do you think is still telling her that?
If you aren't sure, is there a way you can ask her without it turning into an argument or a non-productive R convo?
What can you do to change her perception of those issues?
Go back to the real basics. What were the reasons she left? What is still keeping her away? And tackle them. You have given her time, you have made changes, and while you are seeing baby steps, it never hurts to reevaluate your progress.
Good questions Michelle. I've been thinking about these and will come up with some answers. For now, some journaling.
Things have been strange since I last wrote a journal.
There have been e-mails here and there, usually some interesting thing W comes across and wants me to see. I responded to one of them, asking her if I could see her before Thanksgiving. She responded "I'm busy, sorry".
That was tough, but not a flat-out rejection. I decided to ride from Houston to Austin and back with my family, and spend some good time with them, figuring W would be busy after Thanksgiving.
Talked to W for a while the Tuesday before Thanksgiving, and it was nice. She didn't want to get off the phone, telling me that SIL was in town (the reason she couldn't see me) and told me about a nice laptop bag that she'd seen at Sam's. I bought it on Black Friday, and we've talked about it some since. As we pulled back into Austin that day, she texted to see if I was still in town.
That day, she e-mailed me about taxes, and I told her I'm going to have to file an amended return. I claimed the wrong amount on my school expenses and a couple other things, and didn't realize until they were already in the mail. She was very unhappy about that, because we're going to owe instead of getting a return. I understand, but I have to be honest.
She told me she'd be in Dallas last weekend and could sign the amended return then, but then texted that her plans fell through. She called at at night on Monday and left a message saying she wanted to talk to me. I called back, and she just wanted to talk to me as she fell asleep. Again, nice. It's nice when she lets her guard down.
At 3:15 this morning, she texted asking if I was awake and would be in town this weekend. I got the message this morning,
tried to call back, got VM, then the following exchange.
Me: I'll be here in Dallas. Are you thinking of coming?
W: Yes Sat afternoon. Will that work for you?
W: Also Friday around 4. Staying at a hotel Friday night. When works for you?
I'm surprised how much this threw me. I'm still not detached. This is the second time she's come to Dallas for a secret reason, stayed in a hotel, and arranged a quick meeting with me. I have to admit I was hoping for more.
Several things in my life are going well. Had a great gig with a new band on Sunday night, and it looks like I'm in. A big confidence builder. Work is also going well, and I'm learning about the kind of work I do best and enjoy. Will write more about that later, as it goes along with Michelle's question.
The recent cold has been very hard. Makes it much more lonely to go to bed alone at night. I've been battling a sore throat as well. Miss riding the Harley as well. I've been fighting with some creditors as well, and it has me weighed down. Going well though.
I texted her back "Double-checking some plans".
I do have plans Friday night and Saturday afternoon, and I'm torn because I want to see her so badly. But to her this seems to be just business, and I need to accept that.
I'm thinking, after I double-check my plans, about calling her and saying that I would rather spend it with her, but I do have plans Friday night and Saturday. We could do a meeting Friday at 4:00. Any thoughts?
Sorry about the jumbled post, my computer was messing up. Any thoughts are appreciated.
Any reason you can't invite her along? A lil mystery and unavailability is good, but at some point there is also throwing an offer out there to see how she reacts. If it doesn't work, it's a minor slip (especially since you're not asking her on a Date) lol.
Thanks Michelle!
I took the plunge and called her, needed more info than texting would give. The talk was nice. She said she just needs to get out of Houston, the stress, the holidays, everything is getting to her. She also has a new roommate, and I got to hear all about that.
We planned that I would meet her at 3:00 when she gets in town. She said "maybe you can help me take my stuff upstairs". That's nice. Then I'll leave at 6:00 for my plans.
I told her I could cancel my plans for Saturday. She said "if it's something just for fun, that's cool, don't cancel anything important." I told her I'd always prefer to spend time with her, if things can be moved.
I called my friend with the Friday night plans, and he said if my time with W turns into a date, that I just just stay with her. Glad he's understanding. He understood my tension between GAL and not dropping everything for her, but spending time with her when I can.
It's been a tough day. Working on the amended taxes sucked, then I walked out to my truck and the tire was flat. I can see the nail, so at least it's fixable. Getting it fixed now. Car trouble really makes me feel alone.
I'm excited about this weekend now. Things can be touchy making these plans with a skittish W, but we did it. Now I just need to calm down, breathe, and try not to have any expectations.
Glad you got that arranged!
Some flexibility is good. Sounds like you are striking a good balance.
Good luck with the taxes!
I'm excited this morning. Made some plans for fun things to do around her hotel, and a gift. There's a custom shop she really likes, it's like Bath and Body works but they let you pick the scents and colors and mix it all right there. I made some for her a year and a half ago, and she loved it but we left it in a hotel LOL. I think I'll even go for it and make it a Christmas gift. Was worried about making her feel bad for not having one, but she's giving me a printer. Very nice. I need one but didn't want to buy it.
She said "we only see each other every couple months, so I want to give it to you now so you don't have to wait until March." Interesting comment, but I find it hopeful.
Tomato's talk of an apartment got me thinking. I already picked out our place. It's a great place that she lived after we separated, but we were pretty much living there together before she moved to Houston, and she misses it. I mention it from time to time. Definitely a long-term goal.
Very thoughtful!
Have a great weekend!
Can't wait for an update.
Have fun! Give her something to miss!
Well, guess I got a progress report.
W came in Friday night, I met her at the hotel. She looked tired, said she hadn't slept in a couple days, and didn't want to go out for dinner. She also had a new nerve block shot last week, and it was giving her a terrible headache. I was wondering why she still came.
I went and got pizza and a movie, and we enjoyed watching it. I also had her Christmas present, some product from a cool store she loves called Bath Junkie. They let you customize the colors and scents. She was tired at 8:30, so we made plans for the next day and I went and caught the tail end of a party.
She wanted to meet for lunch Saturday, so I still got to go to a Christmas party and meet her afterwards at our favorite place downtown. She wanted to change the scent on one of her products, so we did that. It was fun.
Back at my place, she told me that she's decided to file for divorce. We're been separated for over two years, and she's not going to move back. I told her I'm sorry she feels that way, and she said "I'm disappointed too", but that it's too hard to continue doing taxes and details this way. "Wouldn't it be nice to just call each other too see how you're doing, not to check on taxes?"
I asked if this was why she hadn't slept in a couple days, and she said yes. She thought this would be easy, just a formality considering how long we've been separated, but now realizes that it won't be. She apologized for being so mean during our marriage. We worked out some details, packed up the last of her things from my place and left, saying she plans to file in Houston this week. She's only talked to FIL about this, doesn't want the rest of the family to know until it's final. Great. Again, my C says that FIL is most of the problem here. She said "I guess we won't talk for a while".
I called my parents and a couple friends, and then W called an hour later to thank me for the Christmas presents. We ended up talking another 2 1/2 hours until she got back to Houston. She mentioned BIL, who is an addiction recovery counselor, and some of the questions he's been asking her. Like, "how did you deal with the death of your Mom?" Answer: she hasn't. That happened early in our M and it was downhill from there. I've never met BIL, but I really like him. She said he's really into Christian videos like my company makes, and wished she'd gotten one for Christmas. I told her I'd mail one Monday, and she said "it's OK if you change your mind."
Sunday was a good day, lots of friends and music. I didn't sleep well either night, couldn't get my mind off things so I read the DB forums instead.
I mailed the DVD Monday, and texted her that it was done. She said "that's nice, thanks". I wanted to puke. I'm tired of "nice". Reading quite a few threads on here, BeTheMan, dday101798, K4D, it seems like "nice" is what got me here.
She's still in so much physical pain with the migraines, and I can tell she doesn't want to do this. But she's doing it. During band practice Monday night, which went very well, I was thinking about all of this and getting more and more ticked.
She always hated my music. I was supposed to be a workaholic businessman like her dad, not working for a start-up and churches like I am now. These issues are why the lay-off back in January was so tough, because I've had to make major career and life choices, just when it felt like W and I were making progress. Going to a career and life coaching group has made me realize how much I hate the corporate world, and enjoy working for a start-up. My boss wasn't hit as badly by the recession, and was able to hire me back. I learned a lot working for a big company for a year and a half. Mostly how NOT to run a web site. And how big, "stable" companies are not stable at all. They can't adjust as quickly when the economy tanks. Yes, the start-up world can be tough on a family, it doesn't have medical benefits or 401K, this was always the tension I lived in.
I decided that this frees me up to really pursue the things I love, and if that means W and I don't work, so be it. I had told her as much on Saturday. I'm going to look into filing Married Separate for 2008 taxes, which are still not done. I paid quite a bit in withholding, she paid none. At the very least if we file joint I'll need her to make up the difference. I also bought some stock from her last year, which is still in her mother's name. She can't figure out how to transfer it, so she gave me the certificate. She'll just have to give me cash.
I was feeling very confident when she called at 12:45. She asked how my day was, I said "great". She said "you always say that". I explained more, about how well the band is going, I like my job and the church stuff. I could give a crap what she thinks about all that. We talked until she fell asleep. And I slept very well too.
I realize I've been stuck, waiting around hoping for good interaction with W, embarrassed that I don't have the kind of life and career she thinks I should have. At this point I'm not contacting her, but letting her contact me. Should I go completely dark? I don't want just crumbs, as Puppy says. I'm better than that.
You are better than that.
I think that going dark has to be up to you. But I also want to say that you do need to get to a point where you can say what is on your mind (albeit with respect...) and not worry about the repercussion. You should be able to say you are doing great, because you are. (I don't know about you, but every once in a while I feel a little guilty that MY growing and changing has come along so well, and the Stupid German is stuck...and yet two words come to mind...poetic justice
). It is their own self imposed limbo, and they have to deal with it. So enjoy the fact that you are doing great, and if she asks, you should tell her you are doing great. If she grumbles, don't let that take it away. Feel Great!!!!
I think we have all experienced the egg shell walk, and now that this is happening you can take a breath. Sometimes it is just living in the limbo that kills us. As Tom Petty says, the waiting is the hardest part.
Hmmm, she said she wants to talk just to talk.
If you go dark, I think she will file. Maybe if you call, she will file. But, is it just me, or that seem to be a hint that what she's fed up with is the lack of progress?
Can you try leading? Making more contact?
Are you ready to stop walking on eggshells? Maybe just put together a letter or e-mail saying, I don't want this D, I don't want to live like this either. Sorry for how things have gone, I don't think we have to get D.
Do you think it will hurt at this point?
I felt guilty answering those calls, because I don't want to be desperate and beg her not to do this. In some ways, it would be a relief, the taxes and limbo have been a pain.
But this is not what I want. Not after working this hard and long.
She texted this morning about a new drink she saw at a gas station and thought of me. She called but I missed it, and I got voicemail a little later. A 180 at this point is definitely more contact.
Thanks both of you, that helps a lot. Always a new perspective on here! I'll give her a call tonight, then work on an e-mail. What can it hurt? I also have a counseling appointment tomorrow which is helpful.
Make sure you take care of you.
(((jon)))
Had a great day involved with a lot of church and work stuff, very good things happening there. Also got a car repair issue taken care of, which I worked on most of the evening yesterday. I hate when mechanics try and screw me over, but I stood up to them and it worked. Feels good.
Deciding to try more contact and see what happens, I called W at 10:15, it sounded like I woke her up. She told me she was up, but had had a very bad day. She was supposed to get lots of projects done with FIL, and didn't take her pain medicine because it makes her loopy. She hates showing him how badly she's really doing, because he just gets mad. He blames me for all her migraines and head trauma pain (she has both). We were in a rollover accident right before getting married, and he blames me because I let her drive. I think the major cause is HIM, but I digress.
Because she didn't take her pain medicine, she ended up in bed all day. He still came over and worked on some things at her apartment for her. I can't help but wonder if one of these "projects" was supposed to be filing for D, but that's idle speculation.
She sounded slurred as she told me this, but it was a nice talk. I asked her how the stepping stones out front I put in for her are, and she said she might need more. Then "don't come and surprise me with them, I can smell your brain burning". I told her I wouldn't do that against her wishes. After that, she fell asleep.
3 different meetings tomorrow, with some close friends, a pastor, my counselor, and then recovery group at night. Interested to see what they say about all this, and my DBing friends here as well.
I might even send her flowers with a "hope you feel better". Not red roses or anything, but she does like tulips. It's nice to be in "what the hell" mode. I mean, what's the worst that could happen? Divorce?
I mean, what's the worst that could happen? Divorce?
Been catching up on your thread. Yes, D is the worst that could happen. But ultimately you are trying to avoid the worst that can happen and prevent the D. It looks to me like you are doing the absolute best you can. And you do appear to have the FIL against you and your M. That is not an easy obstacle to overcome.
I did see where you said that being nice is what got you hear. Being nice is what finally started changing my MIL's heart towards me after over a year of ulginess from her on all levels. She is now thawing. My W is now being nicer over all this month for the first time as well.
DBing isn't about being mean and cold to change your circumstances. It is about being the best you can be as a person to give your M every shot you can to be saved.
Yes, it does include setting boudaries and detaching, but don't confuse that with not being nice. You can be nice and still set those boundaries and detach which would be far more effective in the long run than turning cold and not being nice. Being nice also doesn't mean you are a doormat. That is where boundaries come in.
You can be cheerful and out going to her while setting boundaries which is more effective than just turning cold. I don't think you will be cold though. Anger is normal. This is a hard road. Everyone experiences it from time to time. It is the betrayal and frusturation that isn't ending that brings on the anger. You just have to control it and keep focused on your goals in life. One of them being the most effective way to save your M which I think you already know and are working at.
I can understand your joy of the start up versus the big corporate world. They each have their trade offs and ultimately you have to do what works best for you in that regard.
Here is the thing, even if she does file for D, that doesn't mean it is over. There is still time on your side even if the D gets filed for. I do think filing for D to make taxes easier is about the weakest excuse I have heard, but that is just me.
There isn't alot you can do about FIL. I understand your frusturation with him, believe me I do. But whatever you do, don't criticize him to your W. That won't help matters. And I don't see anywhere that you have which is good.
How is your praying going? Do you pray daily for your M? Do you pray daily for God's will to be done? Do you trust in him? It is hard to keep faith sometimes when everything appears to be against you. Lord I know this. But I would keep it up anyways because you don't know when things can change in the blink of an eye.
I don't know if you have been to rejoiceministries.org. If you haven't, I would encourage you to do so. I think you will get a lot of encouragement from that site.
One of the reasons that I am where I am is because I made so many wrong mistakes in the beginning and for sometime. It is going to be a lot harder of a road to turn that back around because I didn't do what I needed to right off the bat when all of this started happening. I did the complete opposite of what I should have done.
Don't lose heart. It still isn't over. Things can still turn around even against all odds.
One thing I would incorporate if you aren't already is praying and fasting on top of what you are doing to divorce bust.
Kevin
Hi jon,
Kevin covered a bit of things that I would have said.
But, and I don't think you'll like this, but, in looking at signaure, you've only been married 3 years and seperated 2 of them and filed on twice? That's not good. When I got M'd, everyone kept saying, once you get through the first few years, you're good to go. Low and behold, we had our issues in our 2nd year and thought we'd patched all that up. Ends up being, what happened then, was patched up with duct tape and manifested it'self in with all the more current issues that resulted in D.
So, a lesson learned is that you should always make sure a issue is done with, period.
I haven't had a chance to read up on everything here, can you give a very brief re-cap?
-dylan
dday101798,
It looks like he was only filed on once. And it was dismissed. Ironically, mine was to. To this point I have at times tried to look at the dismissal as a sign from God that if I can just hang in there and really do what I need to do, that it will eventually come back around again.
Maybe Jon would benefit from looking at it that way as well if he hasn't already.
I definitely agree with you that Jon and the rest of us need to make sure issues are completely resolved and not just patched up if this has been happening. Again though, I don't know if this was the case with Jon and his M. I like you want to learn more about his story than what we have so far.
Kevin
This was in his update post from a few days ago.
Back at my place, she told me that she's decided to file for divorce. We're been separated for over two years, and she's not going to move back. I told her I'm sorry she feels that way, and she said "I'm disappointed too", but that it's too hard to continue doing taxes and details this way. "Wouldn't it be nice to just call each other too see how you're doing, not to check on taxes?"
Oh, you are talking about the first time she filed and now her getting ready to file a second time. I misunderstood thinking you were saying he has already been filed on twice in the past. My bad. I gotcha.
Kevin
Dylan,
Yes, I was thinking a quick recap would be good. I need to update my sig as well.
W and I started dating in college in 2003. We had common interests, common dreams, and she was one of the first I felt I could be romantic with. It wasn't awkward, it was great. Those were the good times, enjoying each other and getting to know each other.
Then, halfway through that first summer, her head started hurting so badly she ended up in the hospital. I visited her there in disbelief. Friends had warned me that she had bad headaches, and I thought "OK, take and Advil". I had no idea how severe hers would get, and how much they would affect our life.
I went off to Seminary to keep furthering my career, because I could already feel the pressure from my future father-in-law about how much I should be making. I still wanted to work in the church, but thought having a Master's would help make the kind
of money I needed. I buried myself all the more in school to try and make it work.
At the start of 2005, she failed out of her nursing program for the second time. The headaches had grown worse, even with trying every treatment available. Botox ended up helping for a time, but it was $2,000 a pop four times a year, non-insurable.
We moved ahead to marriage in August 2005, and I went, twice because her parents were divorced, to ask for her hand. My C says that there are lies that can permeate marriage, until everything becomes about the lie. My father-in-law told me he would give us his blessing, but "she'll never be happy on a pastor's salary. You need to give that up right now and get a real job."
Her mom told me her side. It was like they both wanted to convince me the divorce wasn't their fault. I could care less. "my husband is a dry alcoholic. He rules his family with all the anger, control and fear his dad used, but thinks he's fine because he's never had a drop. But all the of the damaging patterns are still there." My wife told me not to listen to her. She was the crazy mom who had abandoned her kids.
What FIL said had angered me so much, I thought it was unfair to her and I still do. But everything in our new marriage became about proving it, that she wasn't a spoiled brat, that I could make something of myself. I pushed harder at school, joined a band hoping we would make it big and get rich, all trying to prove FIL wrong.
MIL died 6 months into our marriage, which brought up all the baggage of her parent's D, but we didn't deal with it. Her headaches got worse and worse, and I was growing desperate. I would get through all the interviews and to the last round for a job, and the other guy would get it. Every time. I had never faced rejection like this. School had been easy compared to that.
The more frustrating things got, the more I escaped into my coping mechanisms. Sports on TV. Porn and other things on the Internet. July 2007, Proxy-Connection: keep-alive
Cache-Control: max-age=0
was 3 hours short of my masters and had finally gotten a church job offer, when she told me we were done, got her own apartment and moved out. I couldn't believe it. I gave up all musical pursuits, got a high-paying computer job, and started doing anything she wanted. It worked for little while. We had gotten to the final step of divorce, but she never finished it and we started living together again and reconciling. Then she moved home to Houston March 2008.
Since then, it's been up and down. She'll get miserable and tired of her family, and will start to open up again. We even decided to spend Thanksgiving and Christmas last year together and ditch our families. It was great, and we were seriously talking about her moving back.
Then I lost my job in January, we went through a tax audit in May and June (Kev, go through one of those and you'll understand why she'd use taxes as a reason to D), it's just been a very tough year. I've let it affect my PMA and GAL.
There hasn't been any D talk until now. She's in too much pain to work or do much else. I understand that she's frustrated with the limbo, I am too. I don't want to keep living apart, I want her here. But I'm realizing how much I don't want a D either. I think if she would get help and counseling, it would help with her pain, but she and her family think there's a medical answer for everything.
My C today said "well, I hope she and her father are happy together." He said to not comfort her in this decision, that I've done everything I can. I'm trying to get as many perspectives on this as I can.
Here's the thing, reading your comments Dylan I relate. There's always been a spark between us, it's never gone away. She tries to fight it like crazy. We had a great visit and sex as recently as October. Great talks on the phone this week. She's just still convinced that D is the right thing t
You have had a rough ride in a short and young period of time. I wonder how much of this headache condition is affecting her decisions. Any idea what she is hoping to gain by a D other than tax relief?
Kevin
Kev,
She seems to want closure. And yes, I think the headaches have a whole lot to do with all of this. But in the end I'm to blame according to FIL.
Firefox cut off the end of that post and added some proxy message. Thread should end "She still thinks D is the right thing, and that's what makes this so painful and confusing".
The other thing I relate to about Dylan's story is how much health issues and a death in the family can bring up things that you thought were dealt with. Maybe that's for the better in the end, if we can work through it. It was a whole lot to overcome early in a M. Maybe that's why I'm still trying so hard, don't feel like we got a fair shot the first time.
She thinks D is the only option.
That doesn't mean she thinks it's right.
Whatever her reason - her health, her family, the distance, your job, etc etc etc. She thinks the M can't work.
That's not the same as thinking D is right, or not wanting you.
A small, but important, distinction.
What are you doing to bring joy to your ownself right now? Are you in general a happy person? You seem a bit down on your posts most of the time. What kinds of things do you have going on in your life that you are able to utilize to DB?
Kevin
hmmm, that was a "brief" re-cap? lol, just kidding.
That brings us up to speed a bit, BUT, why did she move back the second time when things seemed to be going so well? Did you backslide into those habits again? That's a key event you'll have to elaborate more on.
Here's what I get so far, and I'll be blunt about it. Obviously since day one, FIL thinks you're a slug, no question about it. Other than continued education, what have you done to prove him wrong otherwise? Have you had a one on one confrontation ever about this? Or did he do all the talking and you just took it? Something tells me that's how it went down. I get the sense by your posts, you are the qiet non-confronting type?
I am for the most part as well. I will say, my (ex)FIL and I at day one too did not get along, at all. At the time I met my (x)W, she was M'd to her high school boyfriend wh was in jail pending trial for the attempted murder of S12 at a mere 8 weeks old. Me, I was a long haired, minimum wage bar-hopper.
So, fatherly love on (ex)FIL said that I was a undermining threat and (x)W's train of thought should be solely on S12. Little did he know, the very next day after I met (x)W, I was there at S12's bedside in the hospital after hearing her story of what happened. For the duration of my teen years into early 20's I was told I couldn't have kids of my own, so this was a compelling issue, plus I was just so drawn to her by just merely saying "hi, hows it going?" while standing in a line and she captivated me from there on.
Anyway, for quite a bit, a tension mounted between (ex)FIL and I as the relationship with (x)W began to flurish. Ironically, we spent more time tending to S12 than actually dating each other. (ex)FIL versus confronting me, became further and further abusive, verbally and physically to (x)W until I could take it no more and we locked horns, big time. It took brass on my end as I was much like I am now, 140 lbs wet, and he a good 250+, but none the less, that confrontation brought a halt and understanding that I was here to stay. Not only in helping S12 recover, but supporting (x)W in anyway I could, if I had a dollar and she needed fifty cents, I always found a way to get her five dollars.
In the months that followed our confrontation that calmed things, (ex)FIL finally saw the light, along with some fantastic observation of how S12 had latched to me by MIL (RIP Mom), and S12's first word he could utter when he was diagnosed to never be able to speak properly - "dada".
Needless to say, when I popped the question to (ex)FIL to marry his recently D'd daughter within weeks after finding out that (x)W and I were expecting, surprise, our S11, I got the same shapeal about needing a good job and all that jazz, and I told him, I will do what it takes, and I did.
Sorry I got a bit winded in this, but just to show, I understand where you're coming from on the family insight being unsupportive of your efforts. But I do think you need to take a stand, FIL is very detrimental to your M.
So since you relate to that spark when every time you see your W, make it your drive. Prove her and her F wrong, that you can be that person they think you're incapable of, but also be that person in your own right, not their way.
That's a whole nother thing as why my (x)W is back. I went from a high school drop out no-body with nothing, sharing an apartment, to having a successful, stable career, we had our dream home, and I did it all for my family. Then it was all taken away, and in the post D, (x)W saw that even tho I am of limited means, I still do everything in my power to care and comfort our kids. And once again, if they need fifty cents and I have a dollar, they will have five dollars at the end of the day.
Hi Jon,
I agree with MT. Mine was the same way except he filed right away, but I haven't heard a word and that was last Jan. he filed. A piece of paper doesn't change feelings or anything. Your W might think she will be able to change the way she feels about you and things like that if she gets a D but it's not like that.
You need to keep on praying and not give up hope. People that get Divorced do get back together and even remarried! So please don't give up now.
. A piece of paper doesn't change feelings or anything. Your W might think she will be able to change the way she feels about you and things like that if she gets a D but it's not like that.
I was going to add in my summary of why I posted that 'little story' and saw this, so very true, Goodfight, so very true. I can't stand calling her my ex-wife, doesn't feel right, never has.
Anyway Jon, the moral of the story is that there is a saying, in establishing a long lasting relationship, men seek out a woman like their mother, conversly, women seek out a man like their father. Need I say more?
Hi Jon
I've been reading the boards for a while, including your story, but haven't posted before. First, I want to say that I'm full of admiration for the good spirit, fortitude, loyalty, and moral clarity that you've shown throughout this difficult situation.
The reason I post now is to try to bring together a few matters that have come up in different posts over the last couple of days. I don't have any suggestions, just a few questions, and the wish to add my voice as another person out there who's hoping the best for you.
At the centre of the difficulties you're facing seem to be, as your C said, your FIL -- it's quite a striking element of your story that your W & FIL are to be the only family members to know about her plans to file. Alongside this there's your W's unaddressed grief over her mother, and her ongoing health problems. You also mention how your W's family are committed to medical solutions to your W's headaches, but the medical treatment doesn't seem to have helped her in any long term way.
Your recap was helpful, but I wonder, could you add, when did your W's parents divorce? Also, when did your wife's health problems first begin? Also, could you say a bit about how your FIL responded (and coped with) your MIL's death? One final question - you mentioned your BIL but say you haven't met him - I'm a bit puzzled - is this your W's brother (and son of your FIL)? If so what's the relationship like between BIL and FIL?
Like I say, I don't have any insight into these matters, just reflecting on how the family dynamics and grief might be impacting on your W's situation.
Wishing you all the best in your situation, River
DDay, do you think you can hop over to my thread and give some insight on my sitch?
DDay, do you think you can hop over to my thread and give some insight on my sitch?
Certainly, my hourly fees are negotiable.
However, forgive my ignorance, but where might your sitch be?
when did your W's parents divorce?
She was a sophomore in high school, so that would be 1999. Their M appeared perfect right up to the bomb. All 3 kids chose to stay with their dad, unusual and interesting. FIL re-married within a year, after promising W he wouldn't until she was in college. This is still a very sore spot.
Also, when did your wife's health problems first begin?
Around that time. They got progressively worse through college and into our M. She's also had several concussions, which add head injury pain but don't cause her migraines, according to the doctors. One concussion was an accident we had a week before our wedding, which FIL uses to blame the health problems on me.
MIL told me that W refuses help and will not let things go. "If you're going to be married to her, you'll have to figure out how to help her, because she won't let you." Still haven't figured out how.
Also, could you say a bit about how your FIL responded (and coped with) your MIL's death?
That was definitely twilight zone time. She died of cancer which she'd battled for 10 years. From her deathbed she asked him to come see her, and he refused. SIL stayed with her mom during this time in the hospital and told us this. We'd been married 4 months, and didn't know how to help her through it all.
One final question - you mentioned your BIL but say you haven't met him - I'm a bit puzzled - is this your W's brother (and son of your FIL)? If so what's the relationship like between BIL and FIL?
That's interesting. They got married a year ago (which is why I haven't met him). They live in New York. FIL boycotted the wedding because he didn't approve of BIL. He pulled similar crap with our wedding, but eventually came.
Thanks for reading, River, and thanks for the support!
Anyway Jon, the moral of the story is that there is a saying, in establishing a long lasting relationship, men seek out a woman like their mother, conversly, women seek out a man like their father. Need I say more?
Thanks for the story and advice dday.
I know that's the norm, but both SIL and W chose people completely different from FIL. He's an overweight CEO who looks and acts a lot like Potter from It's a Wonderful Life. Watched it yesterday and it's uncanny. Everything to him is about career, money, status symbols. He failed out of calculus 3 times, changed his major to business and has been extremely successful ever since. He's an incredible salesman.
I'm just not. I tried the corporate cubicle world for a year and a half, then sales for 3 months. I thought if I tried hard enough I could succeed in his world and impress him. It just wore me out.
Now I'm back helping run the site I helped found, it's right up my alley as a musician:
http://www.revostock.comI have a passion for helping musicians make a living, and that's what we're doing. It used to be that to "make it" you had to get a record label and deal with the suits like FIL. Artists have hated that since the beginning, but the Web changes the rules.
Yes, most of the time I've just listened to him. He's so forceful it's hard to do anything else. Have you ever dealt with a CEO? I sat with him in May for my Amends step in recovery, and we had a good talk. We have such different perspectives, but I'm starting to see I can learn some things from him and throw out the rest.
As for actually standing up to him, W never allowed me to do that.
Ok, so what I'm getting here is both W and her sister in their own way rebel against the F by chosing those completely different from him.
That said, curious, why does your W oppose you standing up to him?
And I'd be ramming that three-peat failure down his throat as obviously at that piont in his life, his bearing were'nt so straight either until he found his nitch.
So, why did your W leave the second time around? As I said, that may be key.
Deal with CEOs? Uggh, I deal with MDs, PhD, MBA, CEO, CFO AVP, VP, Chairman, you name it. So, yes, they can be hoot at times.
Hi Jon
I read your recap and just wanted to say hello. I am 28 and my h is 27 and my h had severe health difficulties in our first year of marriage after which he left. I don't have any advice but I will be reading along. I don't think you (one) can underestimate the impact health and trauma can have on a marriage, especially in the early years.
Thanks for the insight JCJ! I've been following you for a while as well. Looks like we got here about the same time.
dday, I agree that the 2nd time she left was important. I'll write about it later tonight or tomorrow. It was an interesting time.
Interesting interaction last night.
After reading Lola and Michelle's thoughts and talking to my recovery sponsor, I decided to call W and make it clear this is not what I want. I called at 10:15, and she sounded tired and headache-y. That is usually a good time to call, had worked a couple times this week, and it's much better than in the morning.
I asked if I'd woken her up, or if she had time to talk, and she said she'd had a bad day and mumbled something about 5 minutes. She's hard to understand when she has a migraine. I softened my voice and said I'd like to talk to her, and she said sharply "I've only got 5 minutes, what do you want?". I told her quickly, she said "I hear you". Then she asked about the taxes in a cold way, and I told her I'll have some answers today.
Afterwards I felt like I was walking on eggshells all over again. I go into that mode too quickly, especially when she isn't feeling well.
W then called at midnight and said "I'm sorry I was short with you. I wasn't feeling well." She was much nicer and I could tell she felt bad. I thanked her for the apology, said I'd had trouble understanding her and should have gotten to the point quicker.
She said "I was asking if it was important, and that was important, but I already know where you stand. E-mail is better for things like that."
So, my sponsor thought phone was definitely better for something like that, but I'll listen to my girls here next time
Working hard on the taxes today, comparing the difference between filing married joint and separate, and finishing her Louisiana taxes for '07 and '08. She hasn't paid the last two years on a gas well there that is her main source of income. It's always made our taxes complicated. I have three different Turbotax years open here!
I'm finding that we'd pay quite a bit more filing Married Separate because none of my education expenses or student loan interest is deductible:
http://www.irs.gov/publications/p501/ar02.html#en_US_publink100041771However, breaking it down she'd pay $3,800 and I'd get a $1,200 return. That's because all the withholding was from my job, there was no withholding on her gas royalties.
This is why taxes have taken so long and been so aggravating for me. I've tried to be nice and not think about how much more I've paid, but I'm done with that. If we do file Married Joint I'll need her to make up that difference. If not, it might be worth it to me to file Married Separate.
Hello Jon
Listening to your story, it's hard to imagine that your W's (seemingly untreatable) headaches aren't connected to her emotional life - particularly given that they started around the time of her parents' D, and seem to continue to effect so strongly the contact that she has with you, and her ability to work.
You said FIL wants to blame you for the headaches (due to concussion), and only wants to seek medical solutions to the problem. I guess that suits him in two ways: it takes any possible responsibility for her condition off him, and it prevents the situation being addressed on an emotional level.
It sounds like FIL has powerful needs to cut off emotional scenarios in his own life: for example refusing MIL's wish to see her at the end of her life, refusing to attend SIL's wedding etc. Sounds like that world of emotion is too dangerous for him and he has massive defences up against it - presumably developed as a kid in response to his own alcoholic tyrant father. His immediate remarriage after the D also sounds like it might have been blocking out emotions - not taking responsibility for his part in the failed M, but instead (I speculate) blaming MIL. I wonder if he got the kids to buy that line - i.e. bringing about your W's belief that MIL was 'the crazy mom who had abandoned her kids'.
My guess is that your W must have deeply divided feelings about FIL, not least because after the kids sided with him (after the D), he then betrayed your W's trust by remarrying quickly and breaking his promise to her. No wonder that's a sore spot for her. It shows FIL getting it wrong, and she may need to believe that he has got things right.
The reason I mention all this is because my sense (and this may be completely wrong) is that it might be worth thinking carefully about what you confronting FIL might mean to your W.
Here I respectfully disagree with Dday
Of course, Dday may be right, but it's possible, I think, that a big part of your W's identity (her big 'mistakes' in life) are tied up with FIL: in particular, following his take on his own marriage and the 'crazy mom' thesis, and also - like FIL - following his example of failing (or refusing to) grieve your MIL's death.
This is why I say she may need to believe that FIL has got things right: imagine what it would take to believe that FIL's take on the world is wrong. It might mean admitting that he was wrong about MIL, but she has passed away, so that damage can never be repaired. In other words, if FIL is 'wrong', then both of those matters (crazy mom/not grieving) become a kind of a betrayal of your W's mother, so they are likely to be extremely sensitive.
For these reasons, I wouldn't underestimate the power of those points of connection between W and FIL. I think that power is evident in the way Your W seems to be caught up in his vortex - sometimes breaking free from it, and things being better with you, and then being sucked back in again.
My concern is this: if you dramatically challenge him, it's possible that you'll also be striking at a very confused set of issues within her, and she may react by siding with him more strongly in order to face those issues down.
I think it's significant, and as Dday said, curious, that your W opposes you standing up to FIL.
Let's say for a minute that the idea above is right, and that a 'hard' attack on FIL (by you) would also indirectly be an attack on unresolved issues within your W. Is there an alternative? I think there is, because alongside the unhelpful ways in which your W has followed FIL, she's also rebelled against him too, and she did that through a 'soft' attack, through love, by marrying you.
Isn't it interesting that he really wants a hard-headed businessmen for son-in-laws, but as Dday mentioned earlier, "both W and her sister in their own way rebel against the F by chosing those completely different from him": you with the ministry and music (and your ongoing, loving DBing), BIL with the counselling.
In the light of the sisters choices', I wonder if there's another reason why she doesn't want you to attack FIL - isn't hard attack FIL's own personal way of doing things? And by attacking back in that manner, wouldn't that make you like him?
What's your feeling about this? Is it possible that she wants you to *not* be like him? After all, it sounds like you weren't like him when you and W were first together. You mentioned that at an early stage, everything in your marriage became about proving FIL wrong, but that sort of sounds like you had to adopt his own work ethic--and to become like him--in order to prove that you weren't like him. Ironic if true.
I suppose my question is, what is your sense of how your W feels about the times when you've acted more like your FIL in the past, and how does she respond when you are (in attitude) more like you were when you first met (i.e. big contrast to FIL)?
I thought it was encouraging to hear that BIL had asked your W about how she has dealt with the grief over your MIL's death, and particularly that she repeated this coversation back to you. It's a kind of acknowledgment on her part, even if the subject is still unaddressed. It also sounds like BIL has clear insight into the dynamic. It's a happy coincidence that your MIL described your FIL as a dry alcoholic, and that your BIL is an addiction recovery counsellor. It's also good to hear about how well SIL dealt with MIL's final illness. Are you in contact with them? They sound like a real positive in this situation, and may have much insight to offer, and, a relationship with your W through which that may bear fruit.
God bless you Jon, River
Played some phone tag with W last night, left her a voice mail, then went to a party with some friends. Had a great time.
I need to e-mail W with the results of my tax work. If she's still going through with the divorce, I'll give her a choice of 1. Filing Married Separate 2. Making up the difference to me if we file Joint. This would save us money overall, but would still cost her $1900.
How do I put this without sounding vindictive? I'll work on an e-mail and post it here.
River, those are some great questions and insight. I'll work on some answers tomorrow. Got the Louisiana tax stuff e-mailed to W, that should be good for now. No idea if she filed this week.
For now, how about them Cowboys?
Got a text during practice this morning "Call me when you can. Its nothing that you need to get away from people to talk"
I texted back that I would call soon. Called her during a break, and she said she was wondering if the flowers were from me, or from her sister. I told her they were from me. The message said "Hope these brighten your day", but I hadn't put my name on it to be mysterious. She said she'd had a bad week, and that they were really nice. She'll send me a picture later. So, took a risk and it worked.
Methinks this is interesting behavior from a wife who supposedly filed for divorce last week.
It is interesting behavior regardless of whether she filed or not.
You have been asked some interesting questions. Can't wait to hear your thoughts.
Seems like these 180s are mostly working in your favor!
That said, curious, why does your W oppose you standing up to him?
After her parents D, W watched FIL go through a year of hell. He never slept, lost 50 pounds, wrecked a company car by falling asleep. She assumed the role of mom, taking care of everything around the house. I've always admired her for that, but never understood how damaging it was. In fact, my C showed me a book called "Emotional Incest" describing exactly what W went through, being forced to fill a role of a parent or spouse. She fiercely defends FIL's every move, even when she hates most of them.
And I'd be ramming that three-peat failure down his throat as obviously at that point in his life, his bearing were'nt so straight either until he found his nich.
Right, but he figured it out in college. In his opinion, career and salary need to be ramping throughout your 20's, because it never will after that. A Master's is never worth it because of that. I mean, he doesn't have one, so why should anyone else?
So, why did your W leave the second time around? As I said, that may be key.
When I left the startup in November 2007 and got a "real" job, W noticed the change. She thought I was finally growing up. We started spending a lot more time together, until I was staying over most nights. Her headaches caused her to lose her job, and I put her on my benefits and tried to get her Ebay business going again.
End of January, she told SIL on the phone, in my presence, "Jon and I are in the early stages of working things out, but I'm still moving back to Houston". I couldn't believe it and couldn't convince her otherwise. I found an e-mail from step-MIL. Her exH was a graduate of my Seminary and pastor of a large church, but a secret alcoholic who eventually abandoned his family. SMIL said "you need to leave him, come back here, let us take care of you. Look how happy we are in our 2nd marriage".
They convinced her to come back. They convinced her that the headaches were my fault, and they could fix them. They were wrong.W has a love/hate relationship with FIL, and also desperately wants to please him. I understand a lot of this through Adult Child of Alcoholic book. At first it shocked me how well it described W, because I didn't buy it. The ACOA book also explains why FIL is so black and white about everything, like the career stuff above.
It was only after she moved back that I got serious about the 12 steps, before I was just making changes for her, not me. Even that job and the one after it were the same thing. A W's health problems will definitely affect the type of job a H works. Where's the line between co-dependency and providing?
This is why I say she may need to believe that FIL has got things right: imagine what it would take to believe that FIL's take on the world is wrong. It might mean admitting that he was wrong about MIL, but she has passed away, so that damage can never be repaired. In other words, if FIL is 'wrong', then both of those matters (crazy mom/not grieving) become a kind of a betrayal of your W's mother, so they are likely to be extremely sensitive.
Wow. Just like the rest of your post, this is very insightful. She didn't talk to her mom for 6 months after the D, then didn't want to be with her when she was dying. She told me "I said goodbye to her a long time ago." I had to force her to fly out for MIL's last week, then she stayed in the hotel room the morning MIL died. This confused me so much at the time.
She can't deal with the MIL memories, or admit that FIL's was wrong. Or that his view of the world is wrong.
I wonder if there's another reason why she doesn't want you to attack FIL - isn't hard attack FIL's own personal way of doing things? And by attacking back in that manner, wouldn't that make you like him?
What's your feeling about this? Is it possible that she wants you to *not* be like him? After all, it sounds like you weren't like him when you and W were first together.
No, I wasn't. Early in our dating, she said "I've never known a man like you, you not only have passions, you actually act on them." FIL told me "I had these ethereal dreams of changing the world, but that all ended when I got married. Now you need to make money".
I guess I thought it was possible to do both, but had no idea it would be this hard.
She also said she loved how spontaneous I was. The ACOA book said children in those homes learn to never be spontaneous, because they don't know how the parent will react.
To this day, W looks shocked when she makes me angry and I don't explode like FIL would. Every she brings D up, she gets really apprehensive, but I listen calmly. I think there's a balance there, but I don't want to act like him.
I suppose my question is, what is your sense of how your W feels about the times when you've acted more like your FIL in the past, and how does she respond when you are (in attitude) more like you were when you first met (i.e. big contrast to FIL)?
This is a great point. It feels like she wants me to be EXACTLY like him. But she wouldn't have married me if she did. I guess deep down inside, I've believed the conventional wisdom because I hear it so much. She must really want someone just like FIL, so it was a mistake to marry me.
I need to start thinking of specific ways that I can NOT act like FIL and see how she responds.
I thought it was encouraging to hear that BIL had asked your W about how she has dealt with the grief over your MIL's death, and particularly that she repeated this coversation back to you. It's a kind of acknowledgment on her part, even if the subject is still unaddressed.
I hadn't thought about that. She didn't tell me what she answered, so I assumed she just blew him off. You're right, it is encouraging. She's at least thinking
It also sounds like BIL has clear insight into the dynamic. It's a happy coincidence that your MIL described your FIL as a dry alcoholic, and that your BIL is an addiction recovery counselor. It's also good to hear about how well SIL dealt with MIL's final illness. Are you in contact with them? They sound like a real positive in this situation, and may have much insight to offer, and, a relationship with your W through which that may bear fruit.
W has forbid me to contact them. I need to for Amends (step #9), and mentioned it in August, but she blew up. I decided it wasn't worth it at that time. But what do I have to lose now?
SIL was a great source of advice and encouragement early in our separation. She told me "I'm seeing a lot of the same behaviors in her that I saw in my mom when she left".
After a couple months, SIL asked me to stop calling her worried that W would stop talking to her if she knew we were talking. Her family's on egg shells as well. I don't want her to feel ganged up on though.
Might be about time to make that call.
Overall, this has been a good wake-up call. I've spent a lot of time feeling sorry for myself after the recession ruined my corporate career and finances, at least in the short term. Time to set some goals and stick with them.
Hi jon,
Ok, here's what I'm getting. I think there just might be some internal 'war' within your W as to what defines a man of quality. Ceratinly, she's used to FIL, as you say black and white, stuck in wrought and probably has everything so down to a routine up to and inlcuding what time he picks his nose.
You on the other hand, and as proven with the flowers, provide as you note, spontenatey and perhaps a fly by the seat of your pants type life that she thirsts for. BUT, her rearing tells her that is wrong. It tells her there's no security in living life as it comes. And that to me is why she went back, that security.
This whole story of yours couldn't be more iconic to Romeo and Juliet if I tried.
Her headaches are CLEARLY linked to a psychological issue stemming from the D of her parents. And I would certainly think that there's never going to be a medical cure no matter how much daddy warbucks fronts the bill.
As far as 'confronting' him. It was not my intent to suggest an all out "attack". Merely, as I feel and you confessed, you kind of just sat there and took it and not stand up for your beliefs. Take the case in point of saving your M. Will you let him stand in the way? I think not.
Hi Jon,
I agree with DDay, I believe it in some type of internal war within your W. I'm so happy that she called an apologized for being cold the night before and also happy that she accepted the flowers and thanked you. I believe you are moving along great. If I sent my H flowers he probably would get mad. I know how you feel as far as FIL. My IL's have been in the middle of our separation and still are causing problems. I believe they are telling my H what to do and he is afraid to stand up to them. Plus all of his lies that he has told (God only knows), he doesn't know how to get out of them or I really believe we would have reconciled.
I texted W yesterday "Thanks for telling me, it made me smile and I'm glad you like them". Response: ":)"
This is hard, because it made me feel really good. I even started making too much of it. Maybe she'd let me visit before Christmas? I'm not tied down the next couple days.
No. I don't need to read too much into it, other than I really shouldn't be in LRT mode like I was considering. But it did help me remember the fun part of romance and why we get into these crazy relationship things in the first place.
This whole story of yours couldn't be more iconic to Romeo and Juliet if I tried.
Her headaches are CLEARLY linked to a psychological issue stemming from the D of her parents. And I would certainly think that there's never going to be a medical cure no matter how much daddy warbucks fronts the bill.
Wow, really? I need to check that story out again.
I like what you said earlier about proving FIL wrong, but in my own way and on my own terms.
W called tonight while I was in band practice, I talked to her quickly but had to go. She texted "No emergency, just wanted to chat for a second. Have a good night :)"
Positive interaction I think.
I took some time to pray and fast today, it's hard to believe that God is still in control of this. It's amazing how much taking away a comfort like food helps me realize what's under the surface. A lot of fear and anger. I feel like my whole life I've been constantly on the verge of depression, but I keep moving and medicating.
Definately sounds like positive little interactions. Let her make them, don't chase it and go with the flow!
EDIT - And another question if I may: Did your W ever get a chance to make ammeds with her mother before her passing?
Dear Jon
I think in another thread at some point you questioned the use of terms such as 'WAW' 'MLC' and so on because they tend to make people into objects. I agree. Those formulations can be helpful in getting a handle on situations, they inform our encounters, but must also be modifed by them. I value that core to DB: the
try it -- reflect -- did it work? Yes: repeat, No, try something different approach. My own posts are made in the light of that. I like this forum 'we're separated, now what?' because (for me) it's less categorizing than the 'MLC', 'WAW' type forums. I like the 'now what?' bit especially: an invitation to keep trying stuff.
I'm glad Dday and Goodfight hear that war within your W. That's the sense I get too. In the light of their comments and yours, let me recap the war as I understand it:
i. W is brought up by FIL who, as Dday says, sounds black and white about everything. But the difficulties start when FIL's seemingly perfect M falls apart - the black and white worldview is shaken. Maybe, for W, this was the first sight of FIL acting out of line with his own moral precepts. She may experience this as a betrayal by FIL.
ii. The D happens, and FIL goes into meltdown: his rigid worldview can't deal with the situation.
iii. Alongside that inner moral confusion, W has to make a choice on loyalties. She goes with FIL and demonizes MIL. This is a massive act of trust in FIL. The internal war is underway.
iv. W 'assumed the role of mom', or perhaps 'assumed the role of wife' is better - it was FIL that she really had to look after (not kids). Sounds like your C is onto this (the 'emotional incest' book). This might help in understanding the loyalty bond that exists between them (as you say, W 'fiercely defends FIL's every move, even when she hates most of them').
v. Now comes a loyalty test: she's sided with FIL, and he promises W that he won't remarry immediately (which would intensify the split loyalties), but then he does so anyway. She may also experience this as a betrayal by FIL.
vi. W's new role as caretaker for FIL is simply too much, and perhaps the headaches provide a valid excuse to get her out of this. But she doesn't turn her back on that part of herself: interesting that she went on to train as a nurse. More interesting still that (once again) she dropped out. In time, FIL recovers.
vii. W meets you. You're not like FIL at all. You and W fall in love. FIL tells you that you're no good for his daughter unless you give up being
you and start to become like
him. More material for the war: W wants to marry someone unlike FIL, FIL responds by trying to make you the same as him (and to some extent, you try to do that). W's inner war must be raging.
viii. You marry. MIL becomes terminally ill. FIL cannot and will not face the situation. W follows his example (again trusting FIL's worldview). Again, the war within W must be intense over this: W perhaps felt at some deep level the questionableness of FIL's actions here.
ix. Things become difficult between you and W. It's now FIL's turn to 'save' W (just as she had saved him when he broke up with MIL). Step-MIL and FIL promise a return to a secure family unit for W, where she can effectively be a child again, and she can let go of her feelings of her responsibility - it's like a return to a time before FIL's D. Indeed, SMIL said 'you need to leave him, come back here, let us take care of you'. They're infantilizing her. But it's complex, because as you say, 'They convinced her that the headaches were my fault, and they could fix them. They were wrong.' That may have felt like a further betrayal to W. She keeps trusting FIL, and he keeps letting her down. He promises everything, but can only deliver one thing: money. (Interesting that she has such an expensive illness: it both stops her from working, and pushes her caretaker (be it you or FIL) into a postion of financial responsibility for her.)
Ok... hope I've got the story right so far. How then does that pan out in your relationship with W?
First up, what did W originally like about you? You write:
Early in our dating, she said "I've never known a man like you, you not only have passions, you actually act on them.
You add that FIL told you
I had these ethereal dreams of changing the world, but that all ended when I got married. Now you need to make money.
When I first read this, I only saw the 'passions' bit. On re-reading I noticed how central the 'action' part is. I like what Dday said about the idea of a 'man of quality'. What is it that you and FIL have in common? You both act on your beliefs. Yours may be passions, his maybe be fear (or money), but the common factor may be the
action. I think the flowers are a nice example of you acting on your passions. You felt it, you acted on it, she liked it. You didn't explain yourself - didn't even sign the card. I guess the formula in this case was something like action + passion=spontaneity.
So that's a question to you - does that stuff about action sound right to you, or is it something else? I think this matters because you say:
'It feels like she wants me to be EXACTLY like him. But she wouldn't have married me if she did. I guess deep down inside, I've believed the conventional wisdom because I hear it so much. She must really want someone just like FIL, so it was a mistake to marry me.'
Maybe the idea of a common denominator between you and FIL is helpful here. In terms of acting on things, maybe she does want you to be exactly like him. But in terms of content, not. It's like she wants the same structure, but with different content. A redeemed content.
It's evident in what you write how far your FIL had influenced your 'content' - e.g. 'I went off to Seminary to keep furthering my career, because I could already feel the pressure from my future father-in-law about how much I should be making. I still wanted to work in the church, but thought having a Master's would help make the kind of money I needed.' There's a lot about money and career there, and also the phrase 'the kind of money I needed' is interesting - what's the benchmark here - how far is it related to what W is accustomed to?
You also write
'everything in our new marriage became about proving it, that she wasn't a spoiled brat, that I could make something of myself.'
It's funny, I can see from earlier posts how she might have been seen as a spoiled brat, but reading about how she looked after FIL for the year after his D makes me feel quite differently. She seems traumatized, someone whose world fell to bits, who did everything she could to put it right, but who ultimately just couldn't take the pressure.
This takes me to my other question. I've asked about what W likes that you and FIL have in common, but now I want to ask about what W fears that you and FIL have in common. You say:
To this day, W looks shocked when she makes me angry and I don't explode like FIL would.
So maybe anger is one thing she fears. But I'd be interested to know what you think W fears most? Because when I look back to when her illness started, it may have been triggered by the D, or by feeling overwhelmed, but my intuition is that it was FIL's emotional meltdown. Because when he melts down, the whole world(view) melts down with him. I'm guessing that it's what he fears, and also what she fears. But maybe she fears it in you too. It's interesting that you mentioned in your last post about how you've always been struggling depression, fear, and anger. Those are also the forces that FIL battles with. Sorry this is lengthy, but my question is, how has W reacted in the past when it's looked like you might slump into depression (or when you have)? I'm asking, because I wonder if she fears that what happened to FIL (the main man in her life melts down and she has to take charge, but can't cope), might happen to you. This may be way off, but I'd be interested to hear your response.
W being looked after / looking after others seems to be deep in all this. FIL and step-MIL want to look after her; 'crazy mom' is the person who failed to look after her; she had to look after FIL (but couldn't stick it); she started nursing (ditto); and now you're DBing in an attempt to care for her. And then there's what MIL said:
MIL told me that W refuses help and will not let things go. "If you're going to be married to her, you'll have to figure out how to help her, because she won't let you." Still haven't figured out how.
That's the paradox - she massively demands certain types of care (medical, tax, financial etc.), but refuses other types (emotional). Perhaps refusing the latter kind is why she wants to prevent you from contacting SIL.
It's unfortunate that she's told you not to contact SIL. I'd take seriously SIL's concerns that W might stop talking to her. There is some movement there after all: W is talking to SIL and BIL, she hasn't cut off that line, and she is even talking to them about stuff that matters like how she responded to MIL's death. That's a real ray of light, and not to be overlooked. Also, you don't want her to think you've betrayed her trust by contacting - betrayal of trust is what FIL has done (destructively) throughout. I appreciate that this is a very difficult situation.
One final thing - W might have tried to detach herself from MIL and identify with FIL, but in separating from you, it's MIL that she's emulating, and as your SIL told you 'I'm seeing a lot of the same behaviors in her that I saw in my mom when she left.' When she looked after FIL, she was also being surrogate MIL.
These family dynamics are so complex. I liked this story that you told about the relationship
away from them:
We even decided to spend Thanksgiving and Christmas last year together and ditch our families. It was great, and we were seriously talking about her moving back.
I'm not suggesting any of this is right, but like everyone just trying to reflect back some of what I'm hearing (conditioned by my own personhood and experiences of course!)
In peace, River
EDIT - And another question if I may: Did your W ever get a chance to make amends with her mother before her passing?
Not really. She spent a week with MIL before she went into the hospital, and was there the last week, but seemed to stay detached. Like I said, W didn't want to be there the morning MIL died.
I like your thoughts River. Those steps i through ix are true, never thought about it that way.
What is she scared of? I think she's scared of being abandoned like she feels MIL did to her. She's also very scared of making FIL mad or unhappy. She's really scared of anyone in authority, or inconveniencing anyone. One of the books I read described her as the "good girl", who can intuitively sense tension in a room and move to alleviate it. She'll sacrifice her personal health before inconveniencing anyone else.
Talked with W briefly Tuesday, she had recommended a new blizzard at Dairy Queen and I was trying it. Redneck, I know, but it was a fun convo. As I was heading out of town yesterday, I stopped to catch "Blind Side" with a friend. Great flick.
As the previews were rolling, W called in tears. I ducked out real quick, and she said her new roommate had messed up both of their computers, and W was worried it was a virus. I told her it didn't sound serious and that I'd call after the movie.
I called from the road and fixed the problem fairly easily. She mentioned her Christmas plans didn't start until the 26th, so I took a chance and called her back to see if I should detour for a couple days. She thought for a second, then said "I can't do that". Not a cold rejection, I stayed upbeat and said that's OK. She said she used some of the bubble bath I got her, and enjoyed it.
GFIL is in the hospital is in the hospital, and she's going to take care of him for a week. It doesn't sound serious, an infection because his skin is so thin at 85. She is a tremendous caretaker like you said River, and I complemented her on that. That sounds like a rough Christmas even if it's not serious.
GFIL is on her mom's side, her other grandparents died just before we got married. GFIL pays for a lot of her medical and owns the gas well she gets royalties from. FIL and GFIL talked and supposedly reconciled after MIL's death, but like good businessmen they still talk badly and compete against each other. I think it's ridiculous that this continues to go on.
W called later to complain about her roommate, supposedly it's a short-term arrangement because W needs help with rent. i listened and validated.
Good job with the validation, listening, and nice upswing in communication. Great job with the GAL
Have a very Merry Christmas, make it the best one yet!
Great time last night and today in my favorite city, San Antonio! It's just me, my little brother, and my parents, my other brother and sister are with their in-laws. We've made a good time of it, loved watching the Lakers lose also!
I think I'll call in a bit and wish W a Merry Christmas. Don't know if she's with GFIL yet.
Called at 11:15 and woke W up to wish her a Merry Christmas. She sounded really sweet, and I let her go back to sleep. She called back at 1:00 AM and left me a nice voicemail.
I remember a wise friend in college told me "you'll be able to tell when things are going good, when you call and wake her up and instead of getting mad she's nice." So true, in every dating relationship I've had, and it was a thrill last night.
Tonight W called at 9:00, she's at her grandparents and was having trouble going to sleep. She said she'll be there until Tuesday or Wednesday taking care of them while her aunt and her husband go to the Independence Bowl in Louisiana. She said she can't handle more than a couple days with them, so this will be hard.
Interestingly, W's aunt never left Port Arthur (an hour east of Houston), and only recently got married in her 40's. I like her and her husband a lot, and admire how much she's taken care of her parents, but I could never do that. Now, W is helping fill that role with both her Dad, and her maternal grandparents. Is this really what she wants? A child role, like River said?
She started crying, told me it's cold and the bed's hard, and she's not feeling well. I talked her to sleep.
I have to be careful here, because there will be pullback. This could be just a temporary loneliness she's feeling at the holidays, not a reconsidering. But it feels so good, and helps me remember why I'm still trying so hard. At least for a little while, the Alien is gone.
Maybe not what she wants, but what she feels obligated to do? Or maybe what she feels like she is good at?
So nice about the increased contact, the phone calls, and her calling you when she needed someone to talk to.
Enjoy it.
(Glad you are expecting the pullback, best to be prepared for the worst)
Hit a wall today. Had strange dreams and woke up with sad and negative thoughts.
I wish I could press a button and help you get to the point where you just don't care.
I've been thinking about this from K4D's thread.
This moment was when my W came to tell me she was filing again. Fear and pain have been so paralyzing for me, and I've been stuck for most of 2009. I feel so bad for W and the pain she's in, but she won't let me help.
Negotiating with my last two credit cards was a big step last week. My perfect payment history helped (so why did you kick my interest rate to 30%, bastards?) Enjoying listening to Dave Ramsey. Time to set more goals and keep moving.
Good time with friends watching the Cowboys win last night, good time working with my sister on her wedding music today, and I'm going to Trans-Siberian Orchestra tonight. Disc golf in the morning.
The concert was fantastic, and I won my fantasy football league by half a point. That's $100 coming my way! Made a little too much noise about that during the concert.
The bright spots are nice, I'm enjoying them. Back to the grind tomorrow, looks like none of my producers took Christmas vacation, so I've got a ton of catchup work to do tomorrow. The joys of a start-up.
I love TSO!!!! Didn't get to see their show this year, but my dad got me the Night Castle CDs for Christmas!
Good job on negotiating with the credit cards.
Be patient with yourself and your situation.
I like your taste Michelle!
Called W tonight, she was just getting home from her grandparents. She told me about some new shoes she got, and about her new pet turtle. She was much more withdrawn than the last couple times we talked, but I expected that.
I asked her if she had plans for New Years, and she said she'll be doing family stuff. Wow, that sounds fun! LOL. I said OK, have a good night.
I have some fun plans New Years eve and New Years Day but wanted to give it a shot. No biggie.
So, had a great New Years Eve party, then disc golf tournament today. I was catching up on some DB threads and W calls.
I said "Happy New Year" and we had a nice talk, told her what I'd been up to, found out she stayed at home last night. But she had half a bottle of rum so it was OK. LOL. She asked if I'll be around tomorrow afternoon, and would like to hang out with her. Then that changed to "I'm staying at a hotel, and you can come. My plans go from 6 AM to noon, so you'll need to leave early in the morning, is that OK?" Yes!
Then two texts: "can you pick up some rum?" and later "Will you tuck me in and then head home to sleep? That way I won't show you my nocturnal craziness"
W had crazy nightmares because of her headaches. I called and told her that her nocturnal stuff doesn't bother me, I'm used to it, but if it makes her more comfortable I can leave. I even said "no pressure". Oops, probably should have just thought that.
I'm fighting some thoughts of wondering what she's in town for, because last time it was about the D. Maybe she's coming to give me the papers? I don't really care. I'm feeling confident and I think it's coming across that way. It's like the thrill of dating again.
She'll be here in an hour, any prayers are appreciated.
Good Luck, hope it all works out for you.
Thanks missherlove! I'm loading your threads to read later this weekend.
It was a great visit. Full update later, I'm off to a poker tournament!
Finally some time to update.
Just sent my resume to a friend who has a customer support/web development position at his company. It's a startup, but a few more employees, an office, more pay and full benefits. We'll see. W said she thought I was happy and wasn't looking, and I said it always helps to keep options open. If for nothing else to let my current boss counter-offer with a raise. Feels good.
W came in at 11:00 Friday and I met her as she was pulling in. We watched Jimmy Kimmell and hung out. All liquor stores were closed for New Year's Day (boo, how does that make any sense?), so I brought some Jack and Diet Coke. It was awkward at first, but her attitude was much different than last time. She warmed up gradually, and let me stay the night. It was a VERY fun night
I left at 6:00 AM, caught a disc golf game with a friend, then met W for lunch and some shopping. We looked at netbooks and phones that she's thinking about at a Verizon store. It was her idea, and she kept asking if I minded. It's nice to help her with something I know a lot about. We've talked a couple times since then about whether she can cancel her Cable internet and just get a netbook plan.
She left, and I had a 45-minute drive to Fort Worth for the poker tournament, so I talked to her the whole way there. I won 3rd place! $60! That's $160 this week between fantasy football and poker. I should just go pro
While in Fort Worth I checked out a club my band is playing on the 28th. It's an extremely cool place, and we're not a country band but it should be fun:
http://lolasfortworth.comCalled and told her about the poker and the gig, and that I'm on a roll. She seemed very interested, asking about the date and location. I forget how much a country fan W is, and she loves the Stockyards. We talked until 1:00 AM.
Nice talk yesterday as well, and she just called me while typing this. I had mentioned hearing a lot of talk about the show "Community", and she just watched the first episode on Hulu and loved it. I didn't know you can sign into the site, friend other people, etc. I joked that we should friend each other and she did it, but said "why not just call and say that a show's good?" We joked about the Facebook generation and how she's down on it.
At the end, she said "I didn't say anything crazy in the night, did I?"
I had talked with a friend about this, and responded it's not just that it doesn't bother me, I know she has nightmares, but I really appreciate her letting me stay. And I wouldn't take anything seriously she says.
"It just makes me feel weak, you know?"
I told her that makes sense. Then I told her I had to go.
She probably was really talking about the ML, and making sure I don't take it too seriously. Maybe I should have just said that. I don't think it means much in the big picture of getting back together, but it was a great night, and helped me to remember why I'm still fighting for this.
The 180's seem to be working, so I'm keeping them up and watching what happens. Right now that means calling her once a day. I'm talking more about the things I'm excited about at church, my band, or even the huge Cowboys win yesterday, and not really worrying about her reaction any more. I'm not really worrying about pursuing actions either.
Come to think of it, maybe we're all the way back to the Romance stage? It definitely feels like the excitement of dating again. We were there a year ago, but then all my job stuff happened, the tax audit, 2009 just sucked and was a huge step back. Time to set some goals for 2010!
Glad to hear that you are taking some good steps!
It does sound like you guys had some good bonding time, some more fun memories. And that calling her is appreciated.
Most of us seemed to move through the stages in steps - 3 steps forward, 2 steps back. You guys definitely are getting solidly into friendship from what I can see! And there are definite moments of romance.
So, you got to this place once before and then things fell apart again. What did you do then that contributed to that? How can you act/react differently to stresses this time around to keep things moving forward?
Good questions Michelle.
Well, I already got a response from the resume, talked to the owner over the phone, and have an interview tomorrow at 2:00.
From what I can tell it isn't more money than I'm making now, but has full benefits (paid 100%, nice). No 401K. It's also extremely structured, with no flexibility on schedule. Strange for a start-up, but it seems the guy's still figuring out how to run things.
I've been thinking about how much more confidence I had when doing customer support and sales. Dealing with people can be a pain, but I'm good at it and it's good for me. After losing my job the second time in April, I just felt really beat down. It affected interaction with W a lot.
If W and I were still together, benefits would be a lot more important. W has had COBRA, but that runs out in 6 months.
I don't really know how to sort out the pros and cons in a way that doesn't involve her. Hopefully I won't have to choose right away if an offer comes. For now I just want to have a good interview.
not really worrying about her reaction any more. I'm not really worrying about pursuing actions either.
GOOD. This is mindset that yeilds results!
Thanks dday.
I got the job! Turns out he had already decided to hire me yesterday over the phone, so this was mainly salary negotiation and job description stuff. I start on Monday. One thing that swayed me was realizing I can stay with my current job as well. Like some crazy DBers I know who work retail in addition to their day jobs.
Talked with W about the interview last night. Made sure that my blue shirt and blue tie would go with my suit. She seemed to enjoy helping and I didn't think it was overly needy. I kept things light by having her help me decide what fruit I am. You know, because they always ask that. She said "you're a kiwi, because you like green, and you're mysterious. But don't say that". Hmmmm.
Today she texted me "Thinking about you. Knock 'em dead."
Benefits don't start for 3 months, so if we aren't D'd by then we'll have some decisions to make. Glad it's not now though.
My current boss knows I had the interview, so now to meet with him and tell him I want to keep working, and work out the details.
CONGRATS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks! Felt really good to suit up today. I'm just staying in it the rest of the day. Why not?
Catching up on my current job and meeting with friends tonight, scheduling meeting with boss tomorrow.
Excellent, I vote you the poster boy for GALing. Congrats!!
Thanks! Good day today, last worship planning lunch at church, but the guys said they'd come out and do lunch by my work sometimes. How cool.
More talks with W, she had a little fender bender, but no damage. She helped me buy a new shirt for my sister's wedding this weekend, and figure some more things out.
She told me to not show up to the wedding looking completely like a bachelor. LOL. I think that would take holes in the socks.
Meeting with boss in the morning, then heading to Austin for wedding prep, and the national championship game. Hook 'em! I didn't even think of going downtown until my friend mentioned it today. He said it was crazy four years ago. I've hit San Antonio a couple times after a championship, but my hometown would be even more fun. Can't wait. And a parade here in Dallas next month wouldn't be half bad either...
Congrats on the job! Things really look like they are heading in the right direction for you with job and W.
Going to meet with the boss.
Good luck!!! Knock em dead.
Lunch canceled. We have this crazy thing called ice here in Dallas today, bosses kids are home from school. We'll talk over the phone later. Not ideal, but it'll work.
Breakfast with a good friend, then went to pick my wedding stuff at the dry cleaners. I didn't make the 9:00 AM cutoff yesterday, so not done until 5:00 today. Really? More than 24 hours? This will make it tough to get to Austin. I think I'll swing by at 3:00 and wait in hopes they're early. For now, I get to nap!
Almost all of them send it off site. The convenient little shop around the corner is just a drop off and pick up location with one laundry area and a sewing machine or two.
Guess you'll know for next time.
Jon,
It looks like things are going awesome for you. I am glad to see that. You are really stepping up GALing and your work, etc. Good job man.
Hook em Longhorns. I'll be watching the game also.
See ya Sunday night. Email goes out tonight on where and when. Probably about 6pm Sunday. Should be about 5 of us.
Kevin
Jon,
I'm so happy that things are going well with job and W. Good for you. How did you get to the point of speaking to her as a friend. I haven't heard from my H for almost 2 weeks. I was the one that almost started the texting or calling and so after an argument 2 days after Christmas and I did apologize I haven't heard from him since. Do you think you could hop over to my thread if you get a chance and offer some advice?
Thanks everyone! I'm tired today, came back from Austin in the night, played at church this morning, planning to go to bed early after meeting Kevin and the guys for sushi.
Got to see a lot of family at my sister's wedding, it was good. No one really knows what to say besides asking if W's headaches are better (nope). I did get some encouragement from Grandpa to continue being patient.
My sister had her rehearsal dinner and reception out in the country near Manor. I enjoyed driving around the town while on errands, and found out that quite a few movies have been filmed there, including Gilbert Grape. Never seen that, need to. This music video also:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xP-Sxfntdb4The song hit me today. Maybe because I never listened to country before W. I remember when we were dating, thinking if W got pregnant it would have been the end of the world. Looking back, not so much. When W's headaches continued to get worse, it changed everything we had planned and dreamed of. I had and still have a lot of anger about that. But now I just want to take care of her, nothing else.
Glad you had a nice weekend.
I can't open that at work. What song is it?
It's funny what triggers stuff. I still have triggers almost 3 years later. They definitely get better though. I still feel sad sometimes though.
Jon,
I also just wanted to add my congratulations on the job, the good time you had with W, and your positive outgoing attitude. Nice work!
W seems to like being looked after by you, but at the same time is anxious not to cause you any trouble. I wonder if that combination connects back to what her mom said to you -- that you would need to find out how to help W - because she won't let you.
I'm guessing that the strength and independence that you're showing now in so many ways achieves exactly that goal -- W feels that she can let you help her / care for (because you're able), yet she doesn't need to worry about being a trouble (because you're strong and independent, and you can cope). Good work!
River
Thanks River! I needed that.
Michelle, it's "There Goes My Life" by Kenny Chesney.
Really great DB meetup on Sunday night, very encouraging.
First couple days on the job have been good, this already seems like a great fit for me. A lot of the job is 90 minute software training sessions with new customers, right up my alley. I'm getting frustrated at the lack of organization, it seems like I'm on my own for training and they haven't even set up my computer yet. Time to show some initiative today, I wanted a start-up feel without secretaries or managers but it can be a challenge as well.
Talked with W on Monday night, she started to sound annoyed and I realized I was bombarding her with stuff about my first day. I'm bad about that when I'm excited about something. I ended the convo, but called her back 30 minutes later and apologized. She explained "my head's been really bad for several days and I'm just frustrated". The talk was really nice from there, and I took a risk and told her about the video above and e-mailed her the link, along with some other things she asked for. It's hard to describe, but it was like talking with my old W again.
Last night, she sounded different immediately. She asked why I sent her that video and was really cold about it. "I'm glad I don't have a 5-year-old daughter", she said. Whether because of meds or headache, she doesn't remember anything from last night. I told her she asked me to send those links. This must be scary for her, not remembering anything and wondering if she revealed too much. Almost like an alcohol blackout. Still, we talked for almost an hour, and I found out she's pretty much been in bed since Friday. She also told me more about what her last month has been like. Crazy. I'll post more later.
My uncle came in town last night for dinner, and told me "don't walk, run away from her". He said she sounds mentally unstable, and I don't want to deal with that the rest of my life. I can do better, blah blah blah. Now I find out that my Mom sent an e-mail blast to the extended family after W decided to file in December. Great. No wonder they were weird at my sister's wedding. He asked what my Dad's advising, and I was honest that my Dad wants me to drive W to the courthouse in Houston and make sure she files. "Last time she got a headache and didn't finalize, so this time make sure she does", said my Dad. "It sounds like everyone's saying the same thing" said my uncle.
I appreciate his thoughts, and that he had the balls to say it. A lot of it was actually good DB advice, don't always worry about her reaction, live your life, don't waste time on someone who doesn't appreciate you, etc.
Though the talk with W was good last night, it got me thinking that uncle may be right. W has been warming up only when her headaches are really bad. After that, she snaps right back to Miss Independent. Do I really want to deal with this crap the rest of my life? At the end of the day, I know I'm growing through this. And I still believe in W. I just wish she'd freaking wake up already.
Until your W gets her health stuff sorted out, the chances of her being in a place where she can make any big decisions are pretty minimal. And yes, unless she stops getting headaches, you will be dealing with this for a very long time (the sister of a nurse in me wonders if she has tried chiropractors, massage therapist, and acupuncture/acupressure - massage has helped my headaches a ton because stress would cause such severe muscle tension that I would actually pull vertebrae out of alignment which would then bring on headaches and even migraines).
It sounds like a strange dichotomy with her. It seems to me that she hates depending on anyone else, accepting help, but she does when her headaches get bad. But then she reasserts her desire to be independent and feels weak/guilty about relying on you.
Your increased communication is pretty recent, so give it a little time to see if it has any more positive effects. In the meanwhile, just brainstorm. What actions could you take to shake things up with her? Write down EVERYTHING, no matter how strange or unlikely to work. Then think about what would be good to try next.
She's tried chiropractor, acupuncture, biofeedback, botox injections (believe it or not, helped a lot for 3 years). She does go regularly to Massage Envy and makes sure she finds a really good one in whatever city she's in.
She's encouraged right now because her neurologists in Dallas and Houston have been talking, and they're forming a new headache clinic. It's invitation-only and they're inviting her. Very exciting, but hopefully insurable. These guys see the worst of the worst, and they say her case is one of the toughest they've ever seen.
I should definitely write down ideas to shake things up. Short-term, I have a goal of trying to see her every 2 weeks, and coming up with creative ways to do that.
Text from W yesterday while at work "can you call me when you get a chance?" I called her after work, but had to meet some friends for dinner. Called her back later, and we chit-chatted, I asked her if she had anything specific in mind with the text, and she said she didn't remember, waffled around a bit, then:
W: What are you doing for you birthday on Saturday?
Me: No specific plans
W: Want to come visit?
Me: Sure! That would be a great birthday present
W: Well, I don't have any big plans or anything
Me: No, just seeing you would be a great present
W: Don't get mushy
Me: I'm just a mush-pot, can't help it
W: Ha, well I'll let you know for sure tomorrow
Wow. I had thought about trying to visit this weekend, but didn't know if she would be comfortable yet. I also have some crazy plans I'm working on for a couple weeks out. Will post more later.
It's funny how the internal manifests in the external. Meaning all her internal stress and turmoil manifests into headaches that no doctor or physical therapist can find a cause or cure for. Wonder if she did some counseling if her headaches would ease up as she processed and dealt with her old issues.
Anyways, moving on.
Nice that she is thinking of your birthday! Very cool that she wants to get together.
I'm a little curious about the tone of the texts. I worry that it's a little too pursuing on your part. Instead of saying that you didn't have plans, might have been better to say that you have been so busy with the new job that you hadn't had time to make any. Little things like that.
But, I can't argue with your methods too much since you didn't seem to scare her off!
Jon,
I am around. I have to admit, your methods while somewhat different than DB at times, seem to have positive effects on your W. But then again, MWD does say if something works, do it and if it doesn't change it to something that does work. So I don't think anyone can really say you are DBing if what you are doing works.
Good job.
Kevin
Thanks all, things are going well here in Houston. Will post more when I get pack to Dallas.
Drove through the rain all the way to Houston Friday night. W called to see if I could pick up some groceries on the way in, but then told me we could do that the next day. When I got there, W had ads for several restaurants she's been wanting to try. She had me pick one for my birthday.
The night was very good, until I woke up in the morning and she wasn't there. I went out to find her sleeping on the couch. She said I was stealing the covers and bothering her all night, so she moved to the couch around 9:00 AM. I didn't remember any of it, and was ticked at the sitch. After being apart for so long, it's like we have to learn everything all over again. And W seems to blame me, even though I never chose this.
I sat by the couch and rubbed her head, and we talked for a while. I could tell she wasn't feeling well, and told her not to feel guilty if we didn't do anything on my birthday. I was having a good time just being with her.
I left to get her groceries and clear my head, and she was very appreciative. When I got back, she was ready, and we went to try a new sushi place. It was great. Came back, watched an episode of Modern Family (great show), then went to see Book of Eli at a dinner/movie place she had a coupon for. While out, we stopped to pick up a prescription for her and she showed me some new detergent/softener/antistatic 3-in-1 sheets. Very cool, those will come in handy. W is amazing with stuff around the house, always knows the newest and most efficient way to get things done. I miss that.
We came back, and she had baked me a cake and we had a great time. She told me that she hadn't left the house all week except for a couple errands, and how fun it was to get out.
Before ML, which was crazy good both nights, she said something very interesting:
"So, do you tell Thom when you get lucky?" Thom is a good friend who got me my job. I played it off, then she said "I told my sister that we've been having great sex lately."
As I've mentioned before, it's great when SIL and W talk about us. And supposedly she was keeping everything from SIL and only talking to FIL, so that's changed.
We slept just fine Saturday night until my alarm went off and I left in the night to get back to Dallas. She called me halfway back and said "what were we doing at midnight? Do you think it was visible outside?" She knows what we were doing at midnight. She said a friend texted her at 12:05 saying "I thought you were sick today". She was worried that someone could drive by on the street and see something.
I drove a little farther, had some thoughts churning. Is there some OM back in the picture? At the least, it sounded like someone is stalking her. She had me park my truck elsewhere, in case her family drove by, but maybe there's another reason?
She called back in a bit, and I said "look, I'm not trying to interrogate you, but this concerns me. Why are you worried about someone driving by seeing what you're up to? Is this someone you've had to cancel on a lot because of your headaches, and now they're giving you crap?"
She said yes, it's a girl she met through SSIL, and they were supposed to hang out on Saturday but W told her she wasn't feeling well. W said she'd been concerned that her apartment is visible from the highway. It's amazing the lengths she goes to to worry about stuff. FIL is exactly the same way. First floor is dangerous, better to be upstairs. Don't be visible from the road. Right now she's on the first floor because it's easier with her dog. Maybe it's because I'm a guy and never need to worry about my safety, but I just feel like W and FIL go way overboard with this stuff.
She called me back later and thanked me for being concerned, that it meant a lot. By then I was pulling into Dallas and getting ready for church.
Did she tell me truth? Who knows. But I'm glad I asked about it instead of stewing it over. Many more interesting comments were made over the weekend, still processing. I'll post more later.
Texts yesterday.
W: Thanks so much for hooking my laptop to my TV. Hulu is awesome on it. I should have thought ahead and bought a new router so you could take yours home this weekend
Me: Oh darn, I'll just have to come back for it;)
W: Maybe ;-) Thanks for a great weekend and yummy sex. xoxo
This got me thinking. Maybe? Really? Seems like things are a little too much on her terms.
I decided to not call her last night or today like I have been. I was tired and busy anyway. Decided to try a little NC and see if it works.
Just got a text: "Did I scare you off the other day? I'm sorry if I did so. How are ya? Are you tuckered out?"
Hmmm. I get off at 6:00 and will call her then. I'm thinking an All Dogs Go To Heaven quote is in order. "If this is torture, chain me to the wall". Thoughts?
GREAT talk with my old boss today. I negotiated a higher weekly rate with him to keep doing my old job. He's concerned that I won't have the time, but I told him let's try it. Maybe I'll tell W about this, maybe not. Don't want to be seeking her approval all the time.
Went ahead and texted W the quote, response: "cute :-) realllly good"
MLK quote for all the DBers. "I have decided to stick with love. Hate is too great a burden to bear"
Might have to add that to my sig.
Sounds like a very nice birthday!
It seems like she likes the more frequent calls. That more solid friendship (plus the occasional romance) is definitely a step in the right direction,s o I'm not sure why you avoided calling her - trying to keep from pursuing?
That is a great quote.
Yep, I think it just rubbed me the wrong way. Called W last night and talked for a while. She canceled on FIL several times yesterday, was feeling really bad again after feeling good on Sunday. She sounded very frustrated.
She's meeting with FIL today to take care of "financial stuff". Wonder if he's pushing her for D? He's also trying to get her out of her apartment lease, which she can't afford. He likes to write nasty letters to get things done. Good luck with that. Her lease is through May.
I hope she doesn't sign a new lease, and felt like telling her that. Maybe I will.
Well dang. ML is always a nice birthday present. My hat is off to you.
Jon, I think you are playing this as well as you can and she is responding in a lot of positive ways. I do see hope for your M. Keep up the great work.
Kevin
Birthday sex is definitely awesome.
Why don't you want her to sign a new lease? So she can move back with you?
Telling her that will challenge her independence. It may come off as you implying you don't believe she can do it on her own. Be careful of that, she's really trying to grow on her own and she needs to do it by herself. Now, if she got her own place back close to you, that would be pretty sweet lol.
Good advice Michelle! Yes, I'd hate to see her locked in Houston for another year. Just seems like she keeps putting up artifical barriers (I already moved, it cost $$$, etc.), and using them as excuses.
Her choice though. If she wants to badly enough she'll move back.
Great talks every night this week. Told W that I rocked the Wii bowling in our office, and turns out she's a massive Wii fan. SIL has one. Never knew that, fun times. I joked that she'll have to come to my office and play.
Ran across this today, very mixed feelings. At first it made me mad, but at least people are starting to understand how tough separation and divorce is. Love the "two toasters" example:
http://www.cnn.com/2010/BUSINESS/01/19/uk.divorce.gift.registry/index.html
That article is just sick.
Kevin
Too funny about the Wii.
That article is bizarre. I guess retailers will do anything for business. I guess stability doesn't actually keep them in business, people marrying and divorcing and moving a lot helps them sell more. *rolls eyes*
Great weekend, had a gig with my band Saturday night and then church and football all day Sunday. Also got a lot of work done for my 2nd job. I enjoy it, but don't really have a day off or weekend any more.
I have some pretty bad canker sores, which only come when I'm really stressed. It's been a while, really since I was in school. I use some medicine every morning but they're bugging me. Still, stressed out and too much work is a very nice change from the past year.
Talked to W a bit yesterday, she's excited about the new Palm Pre on Verizon. I went by a Verizon store after work to check it out, and called her. Phones are fun for us.
Had a great band practice, the best yet, then called her. She sounded withdrawn and quiet immediately. I asked if she was tired, then tried to chit-chat for a little while, and finally she said "my B and SIL had a miscarriage today, so I'm very down about that." I told her I'm really sorry, hoped she'd have a good night, and let her go.
It's tough. Her brother is not a fan of me right now. Also bothers me that W, in the midst of her health and financial problems, still gets sucked into the family stuff. Her brother makes a ton of money and already has one kid. Yeah, this tough, but compared to her? It's like she carries the world on her shoulders for everyone else, and they just expect it and take it for granted. I did once as well.
Ugh. That's rough. Definitely normal to be down about that. Hope she bounces back soon.
Glad you had a good weekend.
Early disc golf yesterday, really helped my stress level during the day to get that exercise. Had a good dinner with K4D last night, and introduced him to the career transition group at church. Great people. I owe them a lot, probably would have gone insane this past year without them. It was great to drop by and share the good news about all 3 of my jobs.
Went to a Dallas Stars hockey game after that with a friend, they won in a shoot-out. Amazing! Great GAL to lose my voice a little bit.
During the game, I checked e-mail and found an interesting one from W the night before. Hadn't checked e-mail all day because of busyness. She had asked about auto insurance and I hadn't replied yet:
1. Have not filed for divorce.
2. We can do separate policies if you want to
3. Insurance is still listed in Dallas
I replied that was at a game but would call her later. Called her and we had a good talk. Told her my preference would be to save us both money by staying on the same policy. She needs to get her rate lowered somehow, so I told her we could raise the deductible, etc. Glad I worked in that business for a while.
I'm very excited by this news. Things seem to be changing, but I'm trying not to have any expectations. W also told me that FIL spent the whole day on the phone with 5 levels of Dodge customer service, and got her luggage rack replaced for free. She said he's going crazy in retirement and wants stuff to do. That's cool, I guess. I still feel ticked every time she mentions him, like we're in a fight over her. Need to remember that's not entirely true.
You can pick your friends, but you can't pick your family. It's her job to figure out how to deal with him and set boundaries though.
Your focus just has to be on building the R with your W.
Which seems to be going well! Glad to see that contact is increased and relaxed. Also interesting that she deliberately said she hasn't file for D.
Keep the PMA Jon. I am very grateful for you introducing me to that group. I have a friend that wants to go this coming Wednesday night also.
I definitely see positives in your sitch. It has been a long time in coming. What is the average 2 to 3 years? Keep up the good work bro.
Kevin
Thanks Kevin!
Had a great gig with my band last night in Fort Worth. Made sure I had nothing planned tonight or tomorrow, as it's been a very full week. And a co-worker called in sick today and screwed the rest of us. Extremely stressful. Almost done though!
W mentioned last night that a friend of hers has invited her to move to Austin and live together. I just validated and affirmed. Got to admit it stung a bit though. Maybe at some point I say "no, you need to come back here." Maybe she's actually fishing for that with these kinds of comments? I think I might start doing that, in a light, confident way. And just blow it off when she says no. Could be fun to try.
Interesting developments. It's been two weeks since I've seen W, about the timeframe I want to make something happen, but I've been really busy. Decided to keep this weekend completely clear to rest up and get work done.
Friday night I hit the gym and then Starbucks to work on job #2, good because my boss is getting antsy. Still need to prove I can handle both jobs.
W texted around 11:00 asking if I wanted to talk, and I was just wrapping things up. We talked for a little while, then she asked if we could have an "adventure" soon. Very good sign. This is one of the reasons we fell in love, I was spontaneous and adventuresome on a way which blew her mind.
She asked what my schedule is like during the week, but also said Valentine's is coming up. Score! I'd been thinking about that, but let her bring it up. I said I'm very busy during the week, but let's plan something for Valentine's. Then she said she'd be in Dallas Wednesday and Thursday next week, which actually works out because I don't have anything Wednesday nights.
Then she said she was wishing we could ML, because FIL bought her tickets to Dave Ramsey today and she doesn't want to go. She needs sex before and after. LOL. I'm actually starting to like Dave a lot, but even a friend of hers agreed "he sounds just like your Dad."
Mostly stayed in bed today, I really overdid it this week and I'm feeling congested and crappy. Getting out now to do laundry and hit the gym, while continuing to work job #2. My place is a wreck, and it looks like W will stay with me next week. Planning to rest up today and tackle the place tomorrow. Boss #2 is taking his family skiing for a week starting tomorrow, so thus he's a little anxious. I'll work hard today and get a status report to him this evening.
I've done the multiple jobs thing, it's definitely very stressful. Hopefully you don't have to do it too long as it definitely wears you down.
Definitely promising that she wants to be around and mentioned Valentine's Day! That definitely sounds nice.
It is very positive that she is looking to get some independence from her family, get out on her own again. She may be fishing for an offer from you, or she may really need that independence still (and to some extent more since she is living with a friend and getting a lil emotional distance from her family). My geography down there is sketchy, would that make her closer to you? How far a drive would it be? (I'm thinking it might be more feasible to move more towards dating w/ her not worrying about family driving by - although at some point she does need to just deal with telling them to let her live her life lol).
Rested up yesterday after a great morning at church, also got to talk to my parents for a while. Convinced them to get an iPad. Sweet!
W called around 9:30 PM, just as I woke up from a nap. She wanted to know what we talked about Friday night, she couldn't remember, which happens quite a bit. I told her she'd asked for an adventure on Wednesday and plans for Valentine's. She seemed cool with that.
We finalized plans for this week: she's staying in a hotel close to where I work, so I'll go over after work Wednesday night and leave the next morning. I guess either moneybags FIL or GFIL are paying for these hotels when she comes in for doctor appointments. Takes the pressure off me of getting my place ready.
W texted yesterday that she had to cancel the plans. She said "I'm sorry Jon". I didn't respond until after work.
This sucks. Now I'm realizing how much I was looking forward to it. And having the mixed feelings of wondering why she canceled, if some OM is involved, why the heck she chose to live so far away, etc.
Hopefully will be a good thing, she seemed to be really excited about it and disappointed when it fell through. I told her I wished she was coming, but stayed upbeat and continued on with my previous plans.
Jon - these situations are difficult to read - you said FIL was probably paying for the hotel, so maybe something happened there - I just mean that the decision may not have been W's, and after all, you say she's disappointed too. Well done on keeping upbeat, using this place to vent a bit, and for continuing with your previous plans. I hope the new jobs are going well, River
Well the positives: she tried to make plans to see you, she was disappointed she had to cancel.
Sorry things didn't work out.
Thanks River and Michelle!
I have a thought kicking around this week, got derailed a bit by W canceling, but possibly still true. I feel like things have turned a corner, not quite to piecing, but that my attitude should be different. Right now I'm only calling her when we go to bed at night, but not doing anything during the day. I truly am busy and having a good time with my life here.
MWD on the twitter.com/divorcebusting posted today:
Keep track of everything you do this week that shows your spouse that you are thinking of him or her
This kind of advice usually bugs me, because I have a spouse but she doesn't want to act like it right now. Maybe that's changing, and she does? I'm going to do some things this week, keep track of them, and post here.
DBing is about doing what works. So try out a couple small things if you feel it's time and see how she reacts.
Can't hurt...too much.
Sorry Michelle, missed your post last page. Austin, Houston, and Dallas make a triangle, all 3 hours from each other. So her moving to Austin wouldn't be any closer. Austin is where I'm from, and where my family still is. The strange thing is, there was always this tension with her wanting to move to Houston, and I was pushing for Austin. I guess we were both way too attached to our families.
Interesting concept with the triangle analogy. Keep posting those MWD things. That is true DBing from the author. I love it. It helps me out to.
Had a great time with you and everyone again tonight Jon. I am glad you came.
Kevin
Thanks Kevin, great times! Call or text me today for the Superbowl info.
Wow. I had thought this was coming, even talked it over a bit with the guys last night, and here it came.
Phone call from W:
"I'm trying to get out of my apartment, it's too expensive, and I have a few options, only two of which are free. That would be my dad's and grandpa's, neither of which would be good for me. Would you consider asking your landlord to rent the apartment next to yours, which just became available? (pause) I want you to know that I'm still resolute about what I decided in December."
I stayed nonchalant, told her I wouldn't expect that this would change that, but that it could be a good idea and that I'd check with the landlord on Monday.
The house I live in is divided into four apartments, and rented only to seminary students for a very low rate. I pay only $100/month, no utilities. It's sticky because W isn't a student, and I'm not sure what the owner or landlord know about the sitch. I would simply be asking for more space, something I've thought about several times but it's always been occupied. Now I hear they're having trouble finding a new tenant.
The building is also being inspected by the City on Thursday, they found a couple things out of code and are coming for a full inspection. Only through this did I find that the other upstairs unit is now empty.
W said she'd call me back after the Superbowl and help me with the wording in the morning. We'll see.
What I'm hearing is "I want to/have to move back, but I don't want you to think that we're immediately getting back together and everything will be perfect, etc. etc." So that's the way I'm taking it. Got to love the skittish WAW, thankful because of all of you I know how to handle it now.
Haha! Brilliant! I love your nonchalance skills too - such a great way to give her (and yourself) space. River.
W called during the Super Bowl to tell me she found living arrangements and not to worry about it. Great timing W! I was ticked. What a roller-coaster. Great Saints win though! Thanks for coming K4D!
I was feeling angry and sad after the game, feeling like once again W was so close to coming back. And I keep offering my heart only to have it broken again. I decided not to revert to unhealthy self-protection, it's never worked in the past and won't work now. I choose to love.
Called W, and we had a great talk. Without being pushy or going to far, I stayed nonchalant and asked some questions about what's going on. Turns out her family is helping her a lot, and she's decided to move in with her grandparents. She has some massive debt problems (not a surprise), and she says only they can help. They're helping her get out of her lease and straighten things out.
"Wow, you must have really listened at that Dave Ramsey event" I said. "Yes, and the fear of FIL" she said. Her words. We joked about FIL saying he was Ramsey before Ramsey was Ramsey. FIL gave her an old PC to replace her dead laptop, she didn't tell him she bought a Netbook which comes today. His comment was "you have a huge family, why don't you ever ask us for help on things like this?" This has been the tension of W's life. How much family help and control is healthy? Not easy to answer.
She said she's scared to death moving to the grandparents, and her nightmares have been terrible. She's planning to move in the next couple weeks. Hopefully we're still on for Valentines, but I didn't mention it.
I really wish she would move back now, but maybe this will be a good thing. It gives me a chance to get out of more debt and focus on my job. And she should be in much better shape in a few months. The benefits question will come up around April, cross that bridge then.
Woke up at 5:00 AM, couldn't sleep, so sorted through some mail and then hit the gym with a couple Ramsey podcasts. I have some financial stuff to take care of, and the inspection on Thursday. Stressed, but feeling good.
Dude that's some cheap rent
Interesting that she caved to the family pressure to ask for help. Her whole independence thing only seems to be mildly successful.
Do you think she expected a response from you faster? Or just that her family is too pushy?
Wow. I had thought this was coming, even talked it over a bit with the guys last night, and here it came.
Phone call from W:
"I'm trying to get out of my apartment, it's too expensive,
It is only a matter of time before I receive something similar from my darling.
I'd give it a few statement cycles on the VISA card. All I can say is massive debt!!
Ted
sure was fun on Saturday, huh?
I will have to try and see if I might be able to join you guys at Jim's in April ..longshot but who knows?
Ted
Patience Jon. Keep praying for restoration and playing it cool. It has been a long road for you and you have done well. It sounds like she starts to inch forward and then gets turned another direction by her family. Just keep being the stable loving one and praying for her and yourself and with time she will move closer and closer to you.
I also enjoyed watching the superbowl with yall last night. That was fun. Thanks again for that.
Kevin
Good words from Michelle and Kevin. Your W's family won't let her grow up, and that seems to trap her and cause her anxiety. You're the one person who's giving her space and letting her grow, and also letting yourself grow in the process too. She seems to have so little confidence in her own decisions, but you are allowing her to experience those decisions and responsibilities for herself, and in terms of the growth and future flourishing of her personhood, that's an amazing gift that you're giving. River.
Thanks everyone!
E-mail from W during work yesterday, said she's coming in town today. Apparently the doctor appointment from last week got moved to this week. She had several tax, medical insurance, and auto insurance questions.
She also said "Super excited, life has been very hard lately and this is will be my bright spot for a while! Can we maybe go to James Avery while there?"
I bought her a James Avery ring early in our dating. Maybe she wants to polish it. I told her that sounds great and I'm looking forward to her visit. Also, that we made tentative Valentine's plans for Houston, so could she stay in town? She said there are some details to work out, so we'll see. I told her if I need to come there that's still fine.
I cleaned my place some more last night, band practice was canceled, which was good timing. Called W around 9:30, planning to go to bed early. We talked for a little while, then she said "are you falling asleep, or can I say something?" I was falling asleep, but
She started crying, said "I'm so scared. Living with my grandparents will be terrible. My Dad tried to convince me to live with him instead, but he won't give me as much as my grandparents. I need my space, and even when you and I lived together we would get on each others nerves it wasn't terrible. With my grandparents, they'll be asking every second what I'm up to. I told them some days I have to stay in bed all day, and I know they won't understand."
W just called, she worked out picking up her new Netbook downtown Houston, and she's on her way. She said "I can't wait to see you". Yay!
So, do I talk to her about moving? It's like she's giving me an opening to. The apartment next to me rents for $60, so we could do both for $160. I heard again last night they're having trouble finding a tenant, as it's already mid-semester.
As for gramps, W's parents are divorced and her Mom already passed away. So she'll get her inheritance soon anyway (just realistically). I don't see why she needs to go crawling to them for it. He's still very in favor of our marriage anyway, much more so than FIL. And now they're trying to outbid each other for W, like they always have. What a mess.
OK, W got her Netbook after haggling for a while, extremely busy day here at work so I didn't get lunch until 2:00.
Noticed a text from W "can I borrow $200? Pay you back Thursday". After thinking it over, I called and said yes. Fortunately we have a joint account that makes these transfers easy. She asked if her new phone would get into the bank web site, and I said yes. She asked if that doesn't work, if she could call me with her login info and have me do it. Wow, that's a lot of trust. I asked if she needed the money for gas, but she said she's already halfway here.
Talked with a friend over lunch about the developments and what my actions should be, any other advice is appreciated.
hey jon,
just lettin' ya know that I am following along with ya. Not much to say at the moment.
Enjoy your visit w/ W. Praying for the Holy Spirit to be upon you both.
T
Thanks T! Off work heading to her hotel. Here we go...
Wow. Lots of twists.
Def positive that she is coming for a visit.
The only way you will know about the apt is to ask, albeit subtly.
Such hits to her independence. That's gotta be painful to her while she is trying to grow.
The fact that no one else understands merely makes you look better and better.
Jon,
Just catching up with your recent developments! Wow! I hope you and your W had an awesome evening! Praise God!
I'm in Chicago all week on a business trip...trying to stay warm...and out of the snow. Praying for you both!
BTW, I had a blast with you and the rest of the gang Saturday night! We put away some sushi, huh?
Take care,
Thanks everyone, prayers really appreciated.
We had tentative dinner plans for 7:00. She had texted me the address of the hotel, which was really close to work. I had a terrible training with a new customer at work and got off late. Guy was angry before I even called him and stayed that way, pushing for a refund. The job is cool, but I'm learning how hard it is to help and train non-technical people without talking down to them. Should be good experience.
I texted W at 6:45 "ready when you are", then called just after 7:00. I could tell she was asleep, and she said she still had lots of phone calls and e-mails to FIL to do. She said it would be really late, that she'd actually fallen asleep at a truck stop on the way. I told her that's fine, that I'd grab dinner and had stuff to do. "I'm parked at La Quinta, so I'll stay in the area" I said. She freaked out. "I told you not to do that". I asked what she meant, and she said "I need space" and hung up. 30 minutes later a text "I'm ticked off and don't want to hang out tonight".
It was such a rush of emotions it's hard to explain. The old feeling that FIL always wins, and I always get blown off. How much longer do I put up with this? I hit the gym and took out some frustration, called a good friend and vented and prayed. Worked on my house some more and then went to bed. That was hard.
W called just then, explained that this all feels really strange, that when we see each other she needs to know things ahead of time and not be surprised. I told her I understood. She said she sleeps so much better with me there (big change!), and thought it would be fun, but it didn't work out this time. She had just arrived at the hotel, and was setting up her new Netbook.
I took a chance and said "if you need tech support, it would save me fighting traffic in the morning". She said "I was going to ask you that, would that be OK?" She also wanted something to eat, so I stopped on the way.
When I got there she was very chatty, and I was really tired, but it was good. She told me she's on disability now, and they backdated it so she got a big check in September, but that money's run out now. She had been denied once, but applied again, and writing it all out, listing 15 doctors she's seen, and then getting the approval letter was a realization that things really are this bad. I have to admit it hit me hard also, but I'm very proud of her and glad at the news. She'll get Medicare in another 2 years, which is great also.
She had to leave early this morning for a support group meeting at her doctor's, but we're scheduled for lunch and maybe something tonight. She's worried FIL will pressure her to get back home. I need to make up a name for him, like SAHFIL.
Well, the semi-stalkerish hanging by her hotel obviously is a no no. LMAO. Sounds like she needs things on her terms right now if you want to spend time with her. She's still trying for the independence and illusion of control.
Glad she still wanted to see you after she calmed down.
So many positives in there. Hope you guys do get to hang out a bunch more.
Is there something good she could use as an excuse to FIL to stay?
Did you talk about her living sit at all?
I'm just gonna pester you with questions today.
It's slow at work.
LOL! I was just killing time until our 7:00 plans, needed internet, actually caught up a bit on your thread, (congrats on the house!), should have realized it would freak her out. This back and forth is giving me whiplash, have to remember that 7:00 dinner plans with my W can't be treated as such, sometimes. Other times it's just like old times.
No talk about living sitch yet. Hoping we're able to do lunch and that she stays in town for a little while.
As for FIL, he doesn't know she just bought a new phone and Netbook (only $150 combined, W is amazing with Verizon support people), I don't think he even knows she's here. She seems to be keeping up as if she's in Houston. She's said the phrase "the fear of FIL" several times last night, and she means it. She's always torn between loving him and being scared to death of him. It's very sad. Pester on...
Text from W, and she's good for lunch. Setting up details now.
Lunch was great. She really liked the place and the food, and likes the area near my job. I can tell she's thinking...
She's staying at the hotel for another night, and we have plans for Studio Movie Grill, combo dinner and movie place. She's still not sure about her plans for the weekend, whether she should stay here, or I should come there, or neither. Depends on FIL and his negotiations to get her out of her lease. She said she "might need to drink a lot". LOL. Told her I'm up for that.
I have a church begging me to play this weekend, and I told them I'm still up in the air. She said she'll talk to FIL today and get back with me.
Sounds like she needs things on her terms right now if you want to spend time with her. She's still trying for the independence and illusion of control.
I think Michelle's probably exactly right here. Makes it all unfeasibly difficult for you, but if W is struggling to be independent, at least there's the prospect of her behaviour stabilizing once she feels more confident with it.
I hope the lunch goes well.
"She's still not sure about her plans for the weekend, whether she should stay here, or I should come there, or neither."
It's not a matter of what SHE wants. What do YOU want. And don't say I want what she wants. Well she wants out, do you? Time to kick her into the back seat and you do the driving for a change.
Hi Stuck! What I want is to spend Valentine's with my W. And I want to do it here. So I just tell her what's up right? Worked really well last night. While I'm at it, I'll tell her to never listen to FIL again, and that she'll be miserable with her grandparents and needs to move back here.
I'm torn about Sunday. They're asking me for an answer, and nothing from W yet. If it wasn't Valentines, I wouldn't be doing everything I can to make it happen. Life as an LBS. Of course, I could have flown off the handle last night and called her a b-tch and never to cancel on me again. That's what FIL would do. And that's why she married someone like me, not like him.
Plus, it's like she's having an A with you. Which probably gives her a much needed bright spot in her life right now.
There is still loving boundary setting though. But since you have said you would be flexible about this weekend, it's important to act consistent with your words.
In the future, you can be a little more like "you can come stay with me / go to an event with me but I can't come up" if you think being a little less available would be a good strategy.
Called W a couple times after work, no answer so I figured she'd fallen asleep, so I decided to not be stalker-ish and go home to finish cleaning my apartment. Almost forgot about the inspection today. What a week.
Got that done, drove back north, picking up some food for W, and called her about 9:15. Fortunately, she woke up, I was getting worried that I'd be spending the night in my truck.
The night was awkward, but fun. W was edgy and sharp, I could tell she was feeling bad, but trying to push through. She explained that her medication makes her super chatty until she crashes asleep. Pretty much what happened both nights.
I helped her with some computer stuff, but it was annoying me. Work is stressing me out and I don't like doing more tech support after work LOL. W also told me "let's just make this our Valentine's", that she had to be back to put in her notice at her apartment. I got further annoyed, but we talked it through and it was just a mis-communication about her coming in this week. I told her it caught me by surprise when we had already talked about the weekend. So I didn't have her Valentine's present, will have to figure something out.
We watched Modern Family and Grey's Anatomy, and it helped me relax a bit. At one point she said "if you're thinking about amorous, I'm too sad right now." When we went to bed, she started crying, and I could tell she'd been holding everything back. I just held her for a bit.
She said "I don't want to move in with my grandparents." I listened for a while, then told her my thoughts. She said "I know what you think", but I gently kept going. I told her it's not going to work, it didn't work to live with her Dad before and they should know better now. But they love her and just want to see her do better. I told her an apartment at the price she could get next to me isn't going to happen anywhere else, and I think it would make sense to her family just based on that, and that they would still help her. She fell asleep right during the talk (the crash), so not sure what she'll remember.
She woke me up at 6:00 to see if I wanted breakfast, and I told her I wanted something else instead, and... Breakfast was very nice a little later also.
Snowing like crazy here in Dallas, going home early tonight and coming in late tomorrow. Woo hoo!!!!
Just present the option and let her make her choice.
Glad you had a nice visit. Seems like the tension is more from miscommunications and your expectations than any real hiccups in trying to develop a R (other than distance and family LOL).
Just present the option and let her make her choice.
I'm really amazed how hard that is for me! I have such a controlling tendency, especially when I see her this miserable and in pain.
I need to find a balance here, because angry and controlling, talking down to her, trying to make decisions for her, this is what she gets from FIL and the rest of the family. However, it seems there are times when I need to do what Stuck is saying: be definitive, wear the pants, tell her how it's going to be. Confidence. Finding the balance of acting more like FIL (in a good way), planning, executing, etc. I just don't have to be an ass about it like him and never listen to any different perspective.
E-mail just now from W:
Jon,
It was nice seeing you this week, I hope my visit didn't disrupt your week too much. Here's a few thoughts and questions...
1. I won't be able to pay you back as soon as I thought, I'm so sorry.
2. Please don't feel obligated to do any gift or the like for V-day. I had a wonderful time with you and you have been so giving already.
3. As soon as I can, possibly tomorrow, I'll work on cr insurance and get back to you on it.
4. If you can, please research and find how i can get my old palm info onto my new palm...pretty please.
5. The computer is working great. It was fun learning it with you. If you will, please send me a quick reminder on WLAN, WWLAN, LAND, LAND MINE, etc.
6. If you wanna come visit, I'd love to have you, but it'll be a "working weekend", ya know?
xoxo,
W
I'm a little ticked because I already made plans for the weekend. And W was so wishy-washy about whether she wanted me to come in. So I need to stick with the plans. Here's what I'm thinking of responding:
W,
Thanks for the offer, I already confirmed my plans for the weekend. I do want to visit sometime before you move out, maybe next weekend?
As for the money, just transfer it whenever you can. I'll send you a nerdy e-mail this weekend about the other stuff.
Jon
You seem to have the DBing thing down. The only thing I would say is with regard to the money. Do you need it back? Was it a significant amount? If not, what would happen if you told her not to worry about it and relieved her of that? Might it be a way of showing generosity as an unconditional loving husband?
I don't know if this is an option for you or not because I don't know any of the details of the financial aspect of it, so it was just a thought.
Kevin
Thanks Kevin! Don't feel like I have it down, I'm still questioning a lot of this. As for the $200, my stance for the past couple years is I'll buy her stuff: a nice hotel weekend, clothes, etc, but I'd rather not send money. I feel like she'll take advantage of it and I want to give her something tangible.
Talked with W a few times this weekend, tried to have fun and go through with my plans, but my power was out until Sunday night. Grrr. Really wished I had gone ahead with the Houston plans, but didn't tell W that.
Did have a great time at church, hadn't played there in 5 months while I was getting paid at another church, and the worship guy said my "chops" were greatly improved by playing so much the last few months. Nice.
I went ahead and sent W flowers, regardless of her e-mail. Got a picture back with "Happy Valentine's Day Lover Boy". So, that's a win. Also, she's calling me "babe" a lot more when we talk. Little things.
Talked to her this morning and FIL is coming over to her apartment to help her start moving stuff into storage. She's also mentioned selling her car and driving the grandparent's, and now puts "a year" timeframe on staying there. I'm just listening and validating, she knows where I stand.
Ouch, a year time frame. Well, that could change at any time. It sounds like she is getting closer to you, but is still hesitant to make that final leap. I'd say keep doing what you are doing. She is responding well to it.
Good job on the improvement in performance on the church gig.
Kevin
Texts from W early Monday morning between 5 and 6 AM:
"Good morning. Sounds like fun last night! I hope your day goes well, keep taking your vitamins and cold medicine for a while"
"I love my Palm Pre, thanks for all of your help with it!"
"You can see your truck on Google Maps!"
I woke up stressed, thoughts about W and marriage, work. After the last text, I called her a stalker. No, just kidding LOL. Gave her a ring and we had a nice talk.
FIL came to her apartment yesterday and took her TV and other stuff into storage. So she's really moving ahead with this move. It really hurts and I get pissed whenever she brings him up but I'm trying to blow it off.
Last night we figured out car insurance, stressful as that crap always is. She's convinced she needs to sell her car even though her grandparents don't want her to, so we scaled her back to liability only, and did that for me as well because my truck is so old. Cut our bill in half. Nice.
Also found out she's busy this weekend, but she "penciled me in" for the next weekend.
Text this morning "I hope your day goes well"
I responded "You too! Excited about our penciled in weekend"
"Me too, it'll be fun. Maybe we can find some deals for dinner, still have free movie passes for two movies"
Sounds like a ton of very nice positives!
Love the increased communication and time together. Also the pet names.
Too bad she feels like she needs to move in w/ grandparents. Such a blow to her independence.
Glad you guys got the car insurance thing fixed.
Too bad she feels like she needs to move in w/ grandparents. Such a blow to her independence.
I know. She said something interesting to me in the night last week: "I hate this. I don't want to need anyone. I don't want to be one of 'those women' who always have to have someone."
I think that sums up the tension of W's life pretty well right there.
That's a crappy place to feel "stuck". And I'm sure that's effecting her willingness to be in a R with you. She probably feels like a burden on you and that you have to "tolerate" her issues and her health.
Maybe it would help her to see she is making a choice? Perhaps you could, a bit facetiously, point out to her that she doesn't need them to survive, she is choosing to live there rather than live in her car or be homeless. Even tease her that she's so scared of you she'd choose to live with grandparents instead of be your neighbor LOL.
I'm sure her reaction to that would be very different if she was having a headache or already in a bad mood.
Maybe it would help her to see she is making a choice? Perhaps you could, a bit facetiously, point out to her that she doesn't need them to survive, she is choosing to live there rather than live in her car or be homeless. Even tease her that she's so scared of you she'd choose to live with grandparents instead of be your neighbor LOL.
Ha! I like it.
Had what I like to call a "Come to Jesus" meeting with the owner and several co-workers last night. He's making some major changes to help with the growing pains and angry customers we've been dealing with. I'm very excited about the changes, my co-workers not so much. Which makes it even better. And he called out my manager in front of all of us. Awesome. I've decided that if I get the Developer promotion and $15K raise I'm seeking, I'm buying an iPad to celebrate. Yay!
W informed me that she left for an ACTS retreat with her aunt today. Said she's been completely stressed and needs to get away. If I remember right, this is a Catholic retreat where friends and family can write you letters that you read over the weekend. Wish I had known about it. Thinking of writing her a letter and sending via e-mail. Cell phones aren't allowed but W is planning to sneak in her netbook LOL. Plan to work on this and post it here tomorrow. This could be really big. Or, it could be nothing. Time will tell.
So, what ended up happening this weekend?
Hope W had a nice time. Sounds like a good time to do some self-grounding.
Had a rough weekend. Basically just tried to rest up and get over being sick, not very successful. I kept waking up with crazy nightmares. Spent time at the gym when I could.
Lots of good talks with W this weekend, will update on those later.
Did have a great time at church #2 Sunday morning, gave them an update on my sitch and said I might not be able to play much in the future. They aren't able to pay after this week, so the timing is good.
This morning, after being worked up all weekend, I called my apartment management and asked about the inspection, which still hasn't happened. She said the city hasn't gotten back with her. "Great how they want us to jump at a moment's notice, but we can't get ahold of them", she said.
Then, I took the plunge and asked about the empty apartment next to me, that we'd like more space until I graduate later this year. "Perfect" she said, and that she'd talk to the owner and get back with me. Sweet! That was very nerve-wracking.
I told W about this earlier today, and she said "what are you going to do with that space?" I played it cool, told her I needed more storage and a washer/dryer, asked if hers were for sale. She said yes. We finalized plans for this weekend, should be fun! Feeling good!
Glad to hear you guys talked this weekend.
Glad the apt thing will work for you. It's nice that it gives W the potential to have a place to move to. And it gives you a way to respect her space/independence and say "I know how important it is to you to live on your own right now and have your space and I'm happy to help make it a little more affordable for you"
Talked with a friend about how to get washer and dryer hookups going in the house. Sounds doable, but I'll need to drill through a wall. I'd guess that the house has them, but I would be renting both apartments on the 2nd floor, and they're probably on the first. Hopefully some work back today. Excited!
On the phone last night, W was falling asleep, she asked again "what will you do with all that space? Music stuff?" I said "the washer/dryer are the main thing, at least until I can convince you to move in." She stopped for a second, then said "probably not going to happen. I'm going for an adventure in a small town with nothing to do." Referring to her grandparents.
Probably. I like that. She said her aunt tried to sell her on the virtues of Port Arthur. There's a great museum she can go to. LOL. She also said SIL tore into her, said she's assuming the worst and should be grateful about he grandparents. This pisses me off a bit, because SIL stayed with them for a while when we first started dating. She had major debt issues also. That family is always talking crap about each other, so I know way to much about this. SIL absolutely HATED her time there. What's she thinking?
No matter how good or bad the living situation might be, having family to fall back on in times of need is great. Definitely something to be grateful for, so SIL does have a point.
But living with people, even family, isn't always easy. Especially family sometimes LOL.
Give it time. Don't pressure her to move in next door. It is nice to give her that option if she wants some space though.
So, just got a call from the management and they need me to move next door. Tonight. The city is giving them crap because they're listed as a tri-suite, and they've had 4 apartments all along. Not sure how me moving helps, but I'm doing it. Good to have good friends. Want to help Kev?
I mentioned to the rental agency that I'd still like to rent both, and wouldn't that solve it. She checked with the owner and said that's still an option, but they need me to move tonight. I'm still happy, because apartment next door is bigger.
Walked W through a computer issue earlier, couldn't help her. I think her Netbook has hardware issues. She texted back "it's working now, I feel like I'm taking crazy pills."
I texted back that she's not crazy, she's smart, and had a tech support professional on the phone. I still think it's a hardware problem and she'll see intermittent issues.
She responded "Very true...one who makes the big bucks!"
Nice. And after getting my paycheck from job #2 today, I realized I do make the big bucks! Now if I can just keep it up...
Haha. So if/when she moves back down, she can have the smaller place! I like it.
Jon, you should have texted me or called me or emailed me. If you still need help, let me know. I have been off the boards for the past few days.
Kevin
Haha. So if/when she moves back down, she can have the smaller place! I like it.
Yep! Hopefully I'll still get both, or they might permanently close it, which would be dumb.
Kev, I was just kidding, had plenty of help. I would have texted you if need be.
Tired this morning, time to push through and rest this evening. Love my new place: two huge closets, back porch, and attic access. I went from virtually no storage to more than I need. I told W to call me the Donald Trump of Glasgow (my street).
E-mail from W last night: "DO NOT Call or text my phone, I think I left it at my Dad's." This is such bull. But it looks to be the status quo for a while.
What about it is bull? That she forgot her phone? Or that she's so intimidated/scared of her dad that she is terrified he'll find out you still talk?
Try and have a little empathy. You guys really don't get it, at a gut level, what it's like to have 50% of the population be bigger and stronger than you. And to have some of them feel like it's their right to try and control you. It's not an easy place to be even when you don't have an abusive past.
I think Jon is insinuating that she didn't "forget" her phone, she just doesn't want any messages popping up on it .....
That would be my first question above.
What about it is bull? That she forgot her phone?
I was briefly asking, if she didn't forget it, where is it, or why doesn't she want anything popping up?
I do think she forgot her phone, and she's scared to death that FIL will find out we're still talking.
I still can't get my head around a situation where a wife has to hide the fact that she's talking to her husband. In a supposedly Christian family. I'm just venting a bit. The secrecy, the eggshells, it's all trademarks of an alcoholic family. But they look so successful on the outside.
Thanks for the thoughts Michelle. As intimidated as I am by FIL I need to remember that she's even more so. And she's mentioned she's never been able to stand up to him or men in general. No pressure. No pressure...
Vent away!
He's threatened because he sees you as interfering in his control over her. He'll be threatened by anyone in her life that he doesn't feel he can control. Take it as a compliment!
I grew up in a family with a very strong female role model in my mother. I get annoyed with some of my friends that just won't set boundaries with men. They won't say no if they aren't interested, even though their body language clearly says they want out of there. I don't know how many times I have to go rescue girlfriends who have been raised to be so nice that it's unfathomable to them to do something rude like say no or walk away.
That pressure has to be so much worse then it really is an authority figure in your family. I'm reading a book (yes, for fun, laugh at me all you want) on sexual harassment which talks a LOT about setting and enforcing boundaries. It's got my brain going a million miles an hour on all this stuff. And it's reminded me to be more empathetic to women who didn't learn the skills I did growing up.
Great thoughts Michelle! I'm interested on more of what you're learning in that book.
Came home last night, and the house smelled like paint. I went in my old unit, and couldn't believe my eyes. They completely took out my old kitchen. All appliances, counters, cabinets, gone. Nothing but freshly painted walls. And they took off the lock on the door between the two units. I talked in Spanish to the workers while leaving for work, and they said the had a lot of work to do on kitchen for the inspection. They weren't kidding.
I'm guessing 1. They're removing any evidence of 4 suites prior to the inspection 2. I'm getting both apartments. Yay!
Very interesting talk with W last night, lots of thoughts churning. Will write more later.
So, I have a friend at work. Figured out fairly quickly that he's gay, and open about it. W is completely fascinated by the whole thing. For example, I ran into him at the gym on Sunday, and this week he came in saying "dude, we have got to get you some better gym clothes". LOL. I wear board shorts and a t-shirt, never thought about it.
Also, he eats very healthy food and reads all the labels. He's there with a plate of steamed brussell sprouts while we eat our typical IT worker crap. I never thought this would happen, but my friend is having an effect on me. I'm starting to realize how much I've started to let things slip.
Talking with W a couple nights ago, she said "hang out with guys like him more and you'll have a much better chance of getting remarried". I played it off, said "what, married to a guy or a girl?"
Later, falling asleep, I really started to get angry. Remarried? And I felt it was such a condescending comment. However, all this did get my attention. I've been sitting in this limbo for 2 1/2 years, just waiting for W to come back and everything to get better. I've really stopped caring about how I look, what I eat, or my house, all with the excuse that I'm separated. I'm tired of it.
The new place, even right next door, feels like a fresh start. Talks with W, even with "remarriage" jabs thrown in, have been much better lately. I feel hopeful. Thanks to a friend at work who doesn't seem to share my sexual preference
Care about how you look, what you eat, and how the house looks/feels. It all affects you subconsciously. You will feel better for a little effort.
Glad you have kept up with going to the gym though, so you can't say you totally slipped lol.
Remarriage was a bit snide. But perhaps she meant with her. Don't jump to conclusions.
Good show Friday night, tiring drive afterward to Houston, but it's been a good, relaxing day today. I'm letting W sleep next to me on the couch, and she keeps waking up with nightmares and asking me to calm her down. She told me she's so tired, but afraid to sleep. After last weekend, I understand.
There's a stack of letters in her bathroom from family and friends, written for her to read at the retreat last weekend. Her Aunt coordinated it, so of course I wasn't included. Stings a bit.
From what I understand, this retreat was helping the women deal with a lot of past baggage and share life stories with each other. I was excited to hear she was going.
She called me several times during the weekend, and was struggling with the whole thing. "One woman asked me how I dealt with my Mom's death, that I must have been angry about it. Actually, I was angry after the divorce several years earlier, and didn't feel anything when she died. They said my Mom must have been a real spiritual role model, but I thought, no, actually, she wasn't."
She told me her story didn't fit the neat, clean-cut stereotypes they were expecting. Happens a lot in church, I thought. Still, after stuffing it all for so long, maybe she's starting to deal with some of this, and I'm honored that she shared it with me.
I'm working out a deal to buy W's couch, kitchen table, washer and dryer. I need it all with all the new space I have, and it saves her Craigslist work. She reminded me that she owes me $200 anyway, so this works nicely. Feels good.
We're planning on dinner and a movie tonight if she feels up to it.
Good weekend overall. W felt terrible on Saturday and Sunday, so we never made it out to a movie and dinner, but Redbox came through. Also got the furniture nicely packed and back to Dallas. I'll be back in Houston next weekend for the washer and dryer, and to help her move furniture to her grandparent's ranch.
FIL came up a few times during the weekend, she said he's really stressed in retirement, can't sleep because of some stuff going on with SSIL, and also W's situation, and health issues. FIL actually texted her in the night asking if she was up. Creepy. He's so miserable in retirement he's considering a position with a company. Tough life.
I helped her with her phone and computer issues, and while on her phone noticed an e-mail marked confidential. Probably shouldn't have snooped, but I did. It was news of SSIL in legal trouble, sounds like she's in jail. Too bad, I really like her, but I think she'll turn it around.
W wrote to FIL "thanks so much for your patience with my issues and with SSIL's baggage"
FIL wrote back "You're making some really good choices lately, and soon you won't have any baggage at all. Keep following God and he'll bless you!"
So, there's the rub with snooping. Also, there were some e-mails from a potential OM who watched W's dog during her retreat. I've met the guy though, that at least is good.
I was fairly chapped after that. Baggage huh? FIL's probably talking financial, but referencing the D as well. Yes, she's making some much better choices now, but he has no idea about them. Someday I'll hopefully get to break the news to him. For now, choice is up to W.
Jon
You're being given such a lot to deal with.
Snooping's bad, but (apart from the SSIL situation) I don't think it told you anything you didn't already know. It reconfirmed once again that the dependency relationship of FIL and W is really odd. REALLY odd. And that the struggle isn't so much between you and W, as between W and her relationship with FIL. The emails to dog-man don't sound significant; FIL is the issue. Hopefully he'll get a job, something to occupy his mind so that he stops trying to use his energies to manipulate his family.
It must be frustrating for you, and there are lots of people reading your thread who feel for you and support you.
It's encouraging that W went on retreat, and that the issue of the divorce and her mother's death came up. Her family might be trying to manipulate such occassions for their own ends, but the results of this kind of reflection will always be quite beyond their control, and may well work in favour of W's development and independence, and in improvements in her relationship with you.
River
Her family might be trying to manipulate such occasions for their own ends, but the results of this kind of reflection will always be quite beyond their control, and may well work in favour of W's development and independence, and in improvements in her relationship with you.
Yeah, those types of things tend to backfire on the manipulator lol.
You aren't finding anything new by snooping because there's nothing new. She's talking to you about a lot of that stuff, the rest of it is old news. What did you expect to find?
Thanks River and Michelle!
It is interesting to me that FIL is so miserable in retirement. He thought it was going to be awesome, and worked himself to the bone to have the money saved up after he lost it all in the D. Ha. Now, he got there, now what? Also, GFIL worked his whole life to retire to a golf course house, and as soon as he was able to do so, realized his knees were too bad to play golf.
These guys are great with their money. They really are. I need to learn from them. But I look at their lives overall and say "that's completely NOT what I want". Which is a lesson in itself.
W texted me yesterday: "dishes are completely packed, no need to bring boxes, see you this weekend!" I called her last night, and she said she was unable to sleep all night the night before, and FIL and SMIL got worked up upon hearing that, showed up and spent the day helping her pack. Nice of them, I guess.
I'm having to bite my tongue so hard it's about to fall off. For one thing I'm buying my own wedding presents back. When we split, she took the dishes and I never had any say. This is SO WEIRD. But I can't think about it that way. I'm getting a great deal for myself, and giving her one more reason to move here.
I gave up a great gig on Sunday, old worship pastor coming in town and wanted me to play with him, and food after. Maybe I can make it back for the food part. This feels like a really key time with W, and there will be other gigs. I just have to disconnect from the fact that I'm helping my W pack for another move away from me.
E-mail from W at 5:30 AM: "Do you have video of your sister's wedding? I'm sure she was beautiful."
More indications that there's some thinking going on down in Houston.
Always good to know what you don't want.
Just be glad she didn't do like my XH and donate everything. F*cktard gave away his grandmother's stoneware, my cast iron, our good set of knives, etc. So, it could be worse! Keep biting your tongue.
Hope you have a nice weekend.
Just be glad she didn't do like my XH and donate everything. F*cktard gave away his grandmother's stoneware, my cast iron, our good set of knives, etc. So, it could be worse! Keep biting your tongue.
Thanks! Good to remember.
Worked until almost 7:00, then talked with W on the way home from work, then she had to go and I went to bed early. Work sucks this week, we have a guy out for jury duty and were already overbooked.
I'm learning to break the anger and frustration of customers, we just have a really angry customer base while we launch a new system. There's a really cheesy line that one of the other guys uses: "the thing I like about computers is, even at their very worst, they make really good paper weights".
I had told W this, and she thought it was terrible. However, yesterday I had such a worked up customer, she'd been having trouble all day, but right when she called me it started working. Kind of like that noise that stops right when you get to the auto mechanic. I said "you know, one of the guys here has a saying", and used the paper weight line. She started laughing and said "well, mine's not even good for that."
Then we talked for the next few minutes about Nostradamus and the year 2012 and did I think the earthquakes in Haiti and Chile mean anything. LOL. Suddenly she forgot about her computer for a little while.
I told W this, and she couldn't believe it. How long did we talk about that stuff? She asked. I've never worked this type of customer support before. A lot of it is just letting people vent and letting them know I understand. Then, not taking it personally. Which is hard.
It occurred to me that dealing with a W in chronic pain can be much the same, and I'm getting better at that too. Text from W in the night: "I'm sorry I missed our evening chat. Thankfully we can catch up in person soon enough. Plan on being here around 5 or later".
Also, she texted "Good morning" on my way to work, and we had a nice chat. W isn't usually up in the morning. Good progress I think.
Our owner is on vacation this week. W wanted to know where, so I found out that it was Jamaica and texted her how jealous I am. I need to become the !@#%!@# owner.
Glad to see the easy communication is still there.
Definitely something to encourage!
Our owner is on vacation this week. W wanted to know where, so I found out that it was Jamaica and texted her how jealous I am. I need to become the !@#%!@# owner.
So start your own company on the side. Become a self made millionair. You already enjoy working in start up companies. Can you brand one of those ideas into a company for yourself?
Kevin
Text from W in the night: "I'm sorry I missed our evening chat. Thankfully we can catch up in person soon enough. Plan on being here around 5 or later".
I love this.
Kevin
Thanks Kev! I definitely want to learn all I can from my current job, either to move up internally or strike out on my own. Exciting.
The weekend went well, FIL caused trouble on Saturday making W do a lot more work than he'd promised, but I went with the flow and killed time around Houston. Visited the San Jacinto Monument, rode a ferry, and drove through the only underwater tunnel in Texas.
We went to her grandparents Ranch on Saturday night and dropped some furniture off. It's one of our favorite places and it was nice to visit. We then hit the Museum of Natural Science with free tickets on Sunday.
I wanted to stay at the Ranch on Saturday night, because FIL had already packed W's bed and moved it during the day, but she was scared about her family. W is legally a part-owner of the place, she's 27 years old, and she's scared to stay the night. I really got steamed over this, but kept my mouth shut. How much longer will she let them treat her like she's 5? She's always been the baby of the family, and never broken out of that.
The washer, dryer and dishes loaded up just fine. W also gave me her turtle, which is huge. I've been wanting a pet, and Sheldon will be perfect. We cleaned his tank together, and went over his food, etc.
As I was packing up the last few things to leave, W handed me some snacks for the road and I could see she was crying. I made a few more trips, then came in and hugged her for a while. She said "I don't want to move". I told her she did a really good job with the place, that I always enjoyed visiting and she knows how to make a place feel like home. "Now you'll have most of the stuff" she said, and I agreed. I told her Sheldon said she has to come visit soon.
At work yesterday, the owner came back and told us about his vacation. He also said the insurance has raised his rates by 65%, so he's getting quotes from other companies. He had forms for us to fill out, and I kept W off for now. There were a lot of questions about being on Disability and Medicare that could get really sticky. He's been paying 100% of the health benefits, but said he can't do that any more with the price increase. Wow, I'm so ticked.
I related the price increase to W, and she asked softly if I'd consider putting her on my benefits. I told her I would, that as long as we're still married it's something I'd like to do. She said "thank you Jon". Later she e-mailed that her account is overdrawn, and could I pay her for the furniture and appliances. I told her there's $100 in the joint account for now, but I'll need to get some numbers back from the owner and then we'll talk. I think she should have to pay her share of the insurance while she still lives in Houston. Ugh. BAD timing on this price increase. I really hope Obama can completely overhaul this system. 65% increase, no reason, these insurance companies are a bunch of sleazebags. I'm really starting to worry that my company is too small to deal with W's health problems. We'll see.
W just texted that she worked it out with the bank, if she can deposit $388 they'll waive the NSF charges. I asked her how she overdrew this much, and she said an autodraft came through that she wasn't expecting.
I logged into her account to double-check the info, saying it wasn't because I didn't trust her, but I wanted to double-check what the bank person had told her, because she can't get online. Everything matched. One COBRA check put her under, a couple small charges after that, so 4 NSF's at $38 a pop. Been there, done that. I transferred her the money and complemented her on dealing with the branch on this.
It's good to know she's still paying COBRA. For all I knew she wasn't. A quick glance at her account showed that she's been truthful about other things she's told me. Feels good to know that, and to be able to help. Time to keep on keeping on.
hi Jon. may Christ's love shine through you my bro'.
t
Glad to see the trust and communication continuing. Seems like you two are working well together as partners. Also nice to see she is being very honest with you.