My last thread: Soothing the skittish spouse Thread was locked after only 117 replies!
Well dang. Starting thread Number 6...I predict this will go beyond 10. Sheesh!
Today's lesson (from my DB coach Joann): Make her do some of the work.My wife's emails have always been really businesslike and almost 'cold'. Today, we swapped about a dozen emails, I purposely kept my replies polite and short, like she often does, just to see if she would respond differently. Interestingly, hers became more wordy and friendly in tone. This is no BS, it amazed me as it was happening. Now, I know that this could just be a blip, but it seemed as if my backing off made her 'come to me', just a little.
I just got off the phone with W. She was very sweet, and at the end, she thanked me for the call. It was 100% small talk, and was really nice. I think that, for us, it's important to stay in touch - with small talk, no mention of R.
We are going out for dinner tomorrow after work, then to a wine event. More chance to just relax and hang out with her. Show her what a great guy I have become, and let her get the feeling that she can once again be safe and happy with me.
Wish me luck, team.
Good luck Mink I tried letting my wife due some of the work and all she told me was i wasent acting interested so why would she want to come home. im glad its working for you. she realy seems to be coming around but this time your tsking it a lot slower and thats good for both of ya.
good luck Mink. Don't it feel great after a convo with a coach. I spent and hr with my Psyc yesterday. It was great. He said I will know when it is time to go.
As I said a couple of posts back, last night we spoke on the phone...we are going out to dinner, then to a wine tasting event tonight.
Here is the email I got from her around lunchtime:
Looking forward to my chauffeur picking me up at the usual place around 4. mmm wine tastingWell that sounds positive, doesn't it?
It definitely does. Continue to take it slow and let her lead. This is the only path back.
Thanks CW...I'm just heading out now...wish me luck in yet another opportunity to DB and show her what she's missing!
The wine event was really nice last night. We went for dinner first, and she brought up R talk...I went along for the ride. It was good; once again I told her that if we reconciled, I don't want to do it cold turkey, I would prefer that we ease into it. She said she was still on the fence, but leaning toward an eventual reconciliation...she just doesn't know when. She asked if we should have a timeline. My opinion is "no", because it's a form of pressure, so we left it hanging for now. She asked if getting back together was definitely my goal...I tensed, but said "yes, even though I have detached myself from the sitch, I do still see us trying again". She said "so you would be upset if I decided not to come back". I said I wasn't going to lie...of course. But either way I will be fine. She told me everyone she knows thinks I am a great guy and that it is so weird that we are apart, since we are a 'model couple' in so many peoples' eyes.
Oh well. So I wait.
After the wine tasting event, I was not able to drive, so I stayed at her place. We agreed, no sex, it complicates everything. So of course, we ML like mad demons, wow, it was incredible. We woke briefly at 2:00am, talked and cuddled. Fell back asleep, woke at 6:00, she cuddled into me with my arm around her. She said "I feel so protected". I said "That's not a bad thing".
I left and came to work, and here I am....
I was uneasy with how we talked R a LOT. But I think overall it was a good night. Have we moved closer to reconciling? No clue...one day at a time.
Mink
A R talk initiated by YOU is usually a no-no but a R talk by her is out of your control. To not go along with the talk would have been slightly obnoxious I think. Even though you did have an R talk it seems there was no pressure by you and it appears she really respects your honesty.
What's your next step?
Also when do you expect to hear back from the band audition?
Jen
MM i dont know how you are cdoing it my friend. if my W would let me be in your sitch but STILL said she wasent ready i would be insane. with the ML and the cuddeling and the dates its like you M in everything but word right now. i truly envy you mink i realy do.
Hi Jen. I heard back from my audition, even though I rocked the house, they passed on me
No worries, I have another audition tonight. You can't lose 'em all!
Next step with my sweetie? Let her lead the way for now. We are spending tomorrow evening together, we have some bank stuff to do. Also, this weekend we are emptying out our boat, which is for sale. So maybe there will be more talks. We'll see....
Good luck with the audition tonight! Is it for a coverband too?
Do YOU have a timeline. You told her you didn't but in your heart do you have one?
Jen
Mink, not bad. Give yourself a break, though, and don't get into any R talks for a bit, even if she brings them up. Just have a few times where you hang and enjoy. You can tell her, "MM Wife, let's just leave this topic for a bit. I think we both know where the other one is right now and we're doing a really good respecting that. Let's just lay off tonight and enjoy ourselves."
Me thinks it's good though. The door's open and if you both play your cards right and are good and honest to yourselves, you'll be walking through that door together. Time is the key.
Thanks to both of you ladies. I appreciate your advice and support.
Jen, yes it is a cover band.
I really only have 'summer' as a timeline. i expect we will know one way or the other by then.
Summer is kind of my timeline, too. Our lease is up July 31st, so I know something's going to have to be decided by then. I think.
What era of music do you play? 70's, 80's. ?
Jen
What era of music do you play? 70's, 80's. ?
Mostly 70s - classic rock. I love 80s music but don't play too much of it. The 80s weren't really a guitar decade, at least not like the 70s were!
Nope the 80's were more electronic and "poppy". What's your fav band to cover?
Sorry it's just interesting...:)
Jen
Which band do I like to cover best? Why, The Beatles of course!
Anyway, as always, when things seem to be going well, something happens to remind you that you are in a sitch.
W just texted me to please remember to bring checks with me when I see her tomorrow, since she needs to pay the rental on 'her' apartment.
Not "a check" (ie: for April), but "checks" (ie: for beyond April?).
I need to remind myself that nothing has changed between us...it's just a request.
I know, my overactive imagination. And it will be what it will be. I just wish she would have said "I need a check for April".
I just responded back, "Sure".
Just realized something interesting. Every day, I get an email from David Cunningham, a self-proclaimed "attraction expert". While I don't buy into everything he says, today's email got my attention.
Here is one paragraph:
In addition, women hate being bored so badly that if you do ANYTHING with enthusiasm, they usually want to watch or join in. This is especially true if you announce that you are going to do it and then just tell them they can come along instead of hounding them to come and do it with you. The next biggest thing that most women hate after boredom is feeling like they missed out on something fun or interesting. Indeed, the more enthused you are about the activity and less you act like she needs to be there, the more she'll expect it to be interesting and want to get involved.
1. Back in February, I signed up for a wine/food event. I told W that I was going, and she was welcome to join me. 'No thanks' was the curt reply. 'Well I'm going anyway, too bad', I said. Guess what? The day of the event, she emailed me and wanted to go. I scrambled, got her a ticket, and that was the reversal of the ship sailing away from me, that night.
2. Last night: 'Oh by the way, I signed up with a hiking group...should be a lot of fun' I said. 'Did you sign me up?' she asked. 'No I didn't - why would I? Do you want me to?' I asked, surprised.
3. Last night again: 'I'm going out to a wine/food pairing with a bunch of our friends on Monday evening'. She says, 'Sounds nice....why am I not going?'. 'Well they said they needed one butt for one seat, and they knew I was single, so they asked me', I said. 'Just proves that our friends are all mad at me for what I've done', she said, sadly. 'No, they're not' I said, 'they just knew I was available'.
So this is worth exploring...I don't need to invite her along every time, just on the most interesting activities!!
That's true actually. I'm like that, I might not find the activity interesting but if H acts like its a great thing I start asking if I can go too.
You also show that your wife is fitting that profile. I wonder if any of the other woman would agree that they are similar.
Maybe she said checks just because they come in a book of 50 or 100 right?? You're not going to ask someone to bring a check are you?
Jen
Dang Minkerman-
Reading THIS thread I think YOU'RE the inspiration!
Definitely all sounds good to me. I think I need to check out your past thread because based on what I just read, you're kicking butt and taking names!
Keep up the good work!!
Yup- just read the thread that locked up (soothing the skittish spouse) and you're amazing.
I wish I would have thought to do a Dobson letter; now wouldn't be a good time since my H just announced we're dating exclusively, but still....
I live in the greater Seattle area. I don't know if you guys are doing the outlet malls near the Tulalip Casino in Marysville, but if you are, the Casino often has a live band on the weekend. You might want to look into it. The Afrodisiacs/Spazmatics (same band, different music) are great to see/ fun for dancing. Here's their website:
http://www.afrospaz.com/index.htmlYou're doing so awesome!
Well, once again, I don't want to bore everyone with my mundane life...but things have once again taken a bad turn. My poor W is having a hell of a time. Which means, so am I.
We were talking on the phone as I drove home tonight. She started in with how I was sending mixed messages...I had "set her free" (Dobson Letter) but I was acting as if I still wanted her. Last night at the wine event, we were all lovey-dovey, then we ML at her place, she told me she loved me at least twice, we cuddled affectionately in bed...who is sending the mixed messages here???
Of course I agreed with her, yes honey I guess I am sending mixed messages...I'm new at this and I'm confused about my feelings too, sorry.
I told her I do want her...I just wasn't waiting by the door for her to come home any more. But that doesn't change the fact that I prefer that we are together!
She said 'but you set me free....it's supposed to be if I come back I was yours...if not then I never was'.
I said 'are you saying that you want to be free?'
'I guess I am' she said.
'So are you saying you are definitely moving on, that you feel there is no hope whatsoever?' I asked
'I'm feeling that way' she said.
'What about the ML...isn't that an indicator that there is something worth exploring?' I asked.
'Well it is very very nice, but sometimes I feel like you're just my f**k buddy'
Ouch.
I said well, you better think long and hard before making a decision like this, that will affect the rest of your life.
She said she doesn't know where I got the idea that we were reconciling, in her mind she was always moving on. I refrained from reminding her that just last night she said she was on the fence...leaning my way. She wouldn't remember anyway.
She has said a ton of things in the past 3 months that left no doubt in my mind that she was considering getting back with me.
'We can talk more tomorrow' she said.
We hung up.
It's now 2 hours later...she called 'just checking in' she said, 'are you OK?'. I'm fine, I said. I was definitely not talkative, just don't feel like talking to her right now. She is not playing fair.
I know it isn't over until the fat lady sings, but this is pretty discouraging. I have so much to offer, and I just want to offer it to her...but she's not buying.
Oh and I sent her an email 30 minutes ago...saying the following:
W,
I will ask you to do this, for me and for you....
At this critical point in your journey, please take a breather, and talk to somebody.
A counselor, therapist, whatever.....just talk to someone that can help you to understand this.
Someone who will listen nonjudgmentally to your feelings, and help you gain some clarity.
What could it possibly hurt?
You already know that the decision you are about to make will change your life forever.
You don't need to reply....please just think about it.
MM
Pin pulled, grenade tossed.....she has been adamant to this point that she does not need any counseling. BS.
Hi MM,
Just dropping by to catch up on your thread and check in. Sounds like things are going well. Gosh, I think it would be hard to have so much connection and contact and yet W. still sitting on the fence. Seems like you are doing a great job though and I like the post on attraction / "boringness". Good food for thought for me!
Good to see you're doing so well, MM. Keep going!
Purr
Wow-MM
Yeah, I can see why that would set you back on your heels...
You're right, it ain't over til the fat lady sings.
She is just "feeling" this way right now. And I bet there are some moments in time when if someone asked, you would say you were "feeling" in a negative way.
Hang tight--
Believe me- those WAS's are crazy. In December, my H told me that we should hurry up and file in January. And, in fact, we should do it online because it would be faster and cheaper. (He asked me this in an Instant Message!!)
Well, you know where we are right now. "Exclusively Dating." He was VERY sure in December that divorce was happening- now I am slowly winning him over.
Stay the course. Call your DB coach. ((Minkerman))
W emailed me about an hour ago.
She did not have a good reaction to my email last night. Asking her to seek counseling before making a life changing decision.
She said "Did I miss something or are you having some bizarre conversation in your head? Are you talking about divorce? I am on the page of separation, which I thought you were OK with, since we are both on our journeys."
I replied that last night I asked her if she thought there was no chance for us...she said she was feeling that way...I took that to mean she was moving on. So I apologized for taking it wrong, and that we could talk about it more tonight.
I need to do some damage control. Any suggestions??
Just give her space. She's sending mixed signals, talking about leaving for good but then backpeddling to separation.
Tell her that you do think counseling would help her but that you're not going to push anything, that your concern was for her and nothing else. Say you'd like to continue to do fun things together and just see where things go, that you're her friend.
And continue to detach, back off and just see where things go. Of course, DB like he|| as you do it!
I don't know if you need to bring it up to talk further about.
You took what she said the wrong way (ie, as a decision for a direction and not 'just' a feeling).
If you want to discuss more about your personal journeys, fine. But rehashing that you thought she meant divorce when all she meant was that she was feeling negative seems like it could bring more weight to the conversation/her feelings than necessary--it was a misunderstanding. period....if she brings it up, obviously discuss further, if not- move on. Just have fun.
Like I said in my other post to you, at any given moment, we all have negative feelings about our relationships. We all question what we should do and think about throwing in the towel. It doesn't mean that is what we actually PLAN to do. *Feelings* come and go.
Keep up a good PMA and move forward.
From the Hitchikers Guide to the Galaxie
DO NOT PANIC !
You have been doing fine , just stay on course , you are being tested to see if the new minkerman is for real.
What you have been doing has been working , this is a bump wait at least 48hrs before reacting in any way.
Dave
Well I took all of your advice and we're back on track. It wasn't a bomb, it was just a firecracker.
We had an appointment with the bank yesterday, and it required a 90 minute commute...I thought, oh boy, is this going to be fun.
Fortunately I took delivery of my new Jeep yesterday, so we had something to 'small talk' about at first.
After 10 minutes, I simply said "Hey, it looks like I totally took what you said last night the wrong way. Just goes to show how email and phone conversations are nothing compared to face-to-face. Anyway, I apologize, and let's just pick up where we left off before this all happened - are you OK with that?"
She sounded relieved, and said that was great, let's get back on the path. We're two best friends, and we're hanging out and taking things slow and seeing where it goes.
"But" she said, "we must stop having sex...it is really messing up my head".
I agreed. So that takes the pressure off, and just lets us hang out, stay overnight, go on trips etc, with no romantic pressure.
So that was that. All good.
So I was going to drop her off at her place, but she invited me up, we killed a bottle of wine and talked some more - she asked if I would stay over, I said of course.
We went to bed, no sex, just a good night and good morning kiss, drank a pot of coffee, then I left and came home - and here I am.
So we are back on the best friends track, and I am OK with that, for now. After all, Stage 2 is friendship, and we really weren't ready for Stage 3, Romance quite yet. Stage 2 is the one we are supposed to linger in the longest, so that's what we'll do.
Thanks, team!
Mink that is great.
If there is one thing I have learned throught this its never react immediatley . never jump to conclusions .
She is still not 100% sure , she will throw these bumps and little tests out there , and I am sure it is not concious just her own doubts spooking her. Reacting and changing in haste can cause a backslide.
You have of course figured this out but it will not hurt to reinforce it to others who come here to read.
Pitty about the No Sex though , I am sure this will not be permanent. She is just pulling back a bit , which is to be expected from time to time.
Dave
Reacting and changing in haste can cause a backslide.
Wise words, Dave. Thanks for that.
We spent the rest of today together, emptying our boat, which is for sale. It was a bit emotional, we have been boating for 10+ years and have had so many good times. But, whether we end up together or apart, we need to get rid of the boat and prepare for something else, whatever that may be. If we're together, it's going to be outdoor recreation and travel. If we end up apart....who knows, but we sure can't afford to keep the boat!
Today was nice, we laughed a lot, shed a couple of tears, and had a really good lunch at the water's edge.
On the way home, I said "You're welcome to come up or stay over if you want." She said "I think I'll be in bed by 7:00, I am soooo tired, I know I'll fall asleep right away. I think I'll just go home tonight". "No problem" I said.
It was a good day today, I kinda like taking it slow and easy, and dating my wife.
I just wish she could figure things out. We could be so good.
Hey Mink,
Just read my my last post on your thread...looks like somehow it didn't get put up on the site until quite a bit later after I posted it somehow! I'm sorry because it may have come across as completely wacko--you had just had this very upsetting experience and are reading me saying "looks like it's all good" (!!). The timing of the message was totally off...I don't understand how this happened because I certainly wouldn't have posted that kind of response if I had read the change in your sitch. Maybe we were posting around the same time?! Anyway, sorry if this seemed so out of whack with your sitch. This must have been some kind of site delay in the posting.
In any case, I wanted to say that this must be really confusing to sort out...I mean, she seems to be quite comfortable with the ML part--and has initiated this too, but then she is saying that it "messes her head up". That's confusing to me.
Part of what you described sounds a little like something from my sitch. About a month ago, my W. asked me if I was still in IC. I said yes and asked if she was going to IC also. I got this blank, completely puzzled look back from her and she said, "Me? What do I need to go to IC for? I'm doing fine." (almost like I had asked her something that was completely ridiculous) This was in the midst of so much incredibly confusing and contradictory messages that I was receiving from her. This is crazymaking stuff sometimes, hey MM?
Well, things do seem to have settled down a little...I like the firecracker vs. bomb idea! Though I gotta say, that was one h_ll of a firecracker. If anyone can stay grounded and hold a difficult course, it's you, MM!
Purr
W just called (2 hrs after we left the boat) to see if I was as tired and worn out as she is. I told her the wind on my face all day gave me a wind burn...I mentioned that I had just looked in the mirror and I look 'embarrassed'. She thought that was hilarious!
No other reason for the call. Nice!
EDIT: Purr, I saw your post above, after I posted mine. No worries on your previous post, that's exactly what I thought had happened. Yeah man, this stuff can drive you crazy!! But it could be worse.
Mink, you've got a good handle on yourself and I'm very proud of you. I think this is a great example of how DBing can make or break your relationship. You doing everything the "DB" way is allowing your W to really think things through. I can say for myself that my old way of working on our relationship was just putting nails in the coffin. Congratulations! You are doing everything you can, you're giving your relationship a real chance AND you've become an incredible person.
(((((CW)))))
Thank you.
I just want this to end, and I know it ain't gonna be tomorrow. But one day, it will be.
I am definitely in school here!
MM can i ask how you keep hope alive?
that post may have came out wrong so let me clarify. lately I have lost hope a lot. MM you seem to be very positive in the face of a caos. how do you do it?
Marcum,
Many times I feel all hope is lost, too. However, I keep going back to my goals that I set when I first read the DR book. When I see that, I realize that we have moved forward from where we were 2-3 months ago. And, even when we aren't moving forward, at least we are neutral. In fact, some goals have been achieved, and I need to write some more.
My goal right now is to buy time.
I am hoping that, in that time:
1. She will be able to sort her thoughts out regarding what she "wants" for herself.
2. She will set her own goals.
3. She will see that I have every quality that she wants in a partner (I already know this is the case, and it adds to her confusion).
4. She will start to see me in a positive light; by not being around me all the time, the changes in me are more evident.
5. She will feel less pressure to make a decision, and will let it happen naturally.
6. I will regain the life that I had before I became boring and complacent.
7. I will become someone that she would not want to lose.
One of my "original" goals when I first started this program was that I would notice her coming closer, by her initiating at least 25% of contact. Well, that is probably 40-50% now, so that has been achieved. Plus, a lot of her contact is just touching base, or checking in...so that shows a level of comfort that was not there before.
Next....
She told me in plain English that she needed space. She needs to think, without having me in her face. She wants to be alone. At first, I had trouble with that. Now it's pretty good. When I pushed too hard to do things with her or ask her out on dates too often, or call/text/email her, she told me I was smothering her. That wasn't respecting her request for space, and did NOT help.
Next....
I got a DB coach. She has been GREAT, and really helped me in focusing on what I needed to do, in the short term. She was able to tell me what my wife's actions and reactions really meant, as I tried various things.
Last, but not least....
I really try to keep busy. I have reconnected with friends. I am auditioning for a rock band. I am recording music at home. I go for walks and hikes...alone! I am painting watercolors. I read books (and not just marriage-saving books). I rent movies, and go to movies alone. I visit my kids, and have gone to movies with them as well. I signed up for a 10k run, and have been training for it. I signed up for yoga. I lift weights. Blah blah blah. My point is, sitting around feeling bad was not helping. I needed to get moving, and when I did that, two things happened.
1. My wife started commenting on it.
2. I started to feel a lot better.
I still have my bad days, as you know...but mostly I am very grateful for a very good life.
It would just be better if my W was sharing all of this with me!
I hope this helps answer your question, Marcum.
Just journaling:W just called, unprovoked
Her Mom & Dad came over to see her place...she told me about the visit.
She asked me if I wanted to sleep over at her place the night before we go to Seattle. Yeah, I guess
Asked me if it was raining "at our place".
Told me she never had a chance to go grocery shopping today.
Told me she is going to be doing laundry later.
I love it. I love the small talk. I love her.
The 'expectations circus is rolling back into town' - I'm trying not to buy a ticket.
The 'expectations circus is rolling back into town' - I'm trying not to buy a ticket.
LOL-I
love that!!!
You're continuing to do fantastic!
Thats is great MM
No problem enjoying the circus for a while , just remember you will need to go home at some stage.
She is starting to do some of the work in this R and thats a very good thing. Its softly softly now , prepare for the bumps you know will come , enjoy the good bits of the ride.
Dave
Thanks Dave...and by the way the 'expectations circus' quote is from Dave, everybody
I am tiptoeing at this point. I have made this mistake in the past, and I am not too old to learn.
MM,
Your response to Marcum on sustaining hope and the goals was really great! I may "borrow" a few of your goals if you don't mind for myself!
Hmm...your post made me think a little differently. I've been feeling very aimless, but I realize I've actually been working towards some goals all along without knowing it. But putting them down in a format like you have seems like a good step. I'm going to give it a try!
Thanks for this Mink,
Purr
I don't think you're tiptoeing, it's more that you've learning what doesn't work and your avoiding that. You know what you're doing!
Yes, that's sort of what I meant, CW. Tiptoeing, to me, is proceeding cautiously...as opposed to walking on eggshells, where one is in fear of making one false move.
In any case, I am fairly comfortable with where we are right now. Back to "slow and easy, let's see where it goes, no forced outcomes or expectations".
We are going to a yacht club meeting together on Thursday night, then she has asked me to stay overnight "if I want to". The next morning we are headed to Seattle for 3 days. It's our 28th anniversary that weekend, and we are going down to hang out, see the sights, go to a concert (Dave Matthews / Dalai Lama), and do some shopping.
Also, I'm sure we are seeing if we can stand each other for 3 days in a row, after being separated 3 months!
One day at a time.....
Have you thought about not taking her up on her offers to stay overnight? Perhaps you shouldn't stay overnight this time and tell her that you think the upcoming three days will be a lot of time together and giving a little space beforehand would be a good idea.
Your W can anticipate the weekend while she's alone. She'll be looking forward to seeing you.
I like your tiptoe/eggshell comments. Eggshells: bad. Tiptoeing: good.
Went out for a really nice dinner with friends last night. I was "paired up" with another single lady, we both joked all night how we were on a date, but it wasn't like that.
I was sitting back and observing my thoughts in this situation - quite interesting.
It showed me that I am definitely not ready to date anyone...although I was very attracted to the lady, I kept thinking of W and how I feel in my bones that we are not "done" yet.
Detachment is good though, I don't find myself thinking of her all the time, which is far more healthy. For example, this morning when I woke up, I thought of 2 or 3 other things before she even crossed my mind. Big change.
Mink,
I wish I could get there on detachment. W is in my every thought, not what is she doing but just what will become of it all.
I often think if i would be ready to date and the answer is definatly no. I can't see how my wife is so ready to date or is already. My mind would not be there and it would be so unfair to her and I. Yet I would like to have a female friend to hang out with, go to the movies, ski together maybe a little golf. I miss havong a female companion. Normal thinking?
Tree
Tree,
My friend, I sometimes wonder what you are hanging on to; why you continue to pine for Sally, when you are getting less than zero in return, and absolutely no signs that things are changing. No baby steps, no affection, no nice comments or compliments. Just selfishness and meanness.
In another post, you mention that you only care about W and your kids - not yourself. Well, you have it wrong. You need to care about your kids and yourself...at least you have some control of the outcome. You need to be healthy, physically, mentally and emotionally, because the absolute reality is that she may never return to the marriage. You need to be ready to move on if that's the case, and stop waiting by the door for her to suddenly "wake up".
Your wife is going to do what she is going to do, whether you worry about it or not. So, choose not to worry about it. Sounds easy, and it's not...but that is where you have to get to.
Sorry if this sounds harsh, but you need to pull yourself out of this pit of despair, Treeman.
Journaling:
Today is Wednesday. I haven't seen her since Saturday. Tomorrow evening, W and I are going to a yacht club meeting together, then I am sleeping over so we can leave for a 3-day trip to Seattle from her place.
I have gone a little dim; since I have gotten my head around detaching, I don't feel the need to contact her that much. The few emails we have shared have been nice, she has been quite a bit more verbose in what she writes to me. Example. I had another band audition last night.
She sent me:
I'M CHEERING FOR YOU TONITE!! Let me know how it goes!!!
My response:
Thanks for cheering for me! I have a good feeling about this one. Will let you know tomorrow, since I think I’ll be finished late (15 songs on the agenda).
This morning, from me:
Good morning W,
Audition went really well, as I said, I have a good feeling. Ears are still ringing, had my amp turned up to 10 the whole night and forgot my earplugs.
Hope you have an awesome day…the sun is peeking out.
Her response, 5 minutes later:
Good morning MM,
Very nice. Fingers crossed for you.
Enjoy your day too!
W
A couple of weeks ago, it was all one or two word emails, no emotion at all.
I hope the weekend goes OK, at least neutral. Although I suspect that both of us are sort of wondering what it'll be like to spend 3 whole days together for the first time in 4 months.
I am willing to take her back, I think she knows it, but I have stopped talking about it.
As my post title says - I'm nervous.
Have you thought about NOT spending the night before your trip together? That's another night. I also think it will make her anticipate the trip, and seeing you, more.
Yeah, I did, but the meeting is 10 minutes from her place...it means a 20 mile drive back home for me after the meeting, then another 20 miles back in the morning, then a 2.5 hour drive to Seattle.
It is so darn practical to stay at her place, that she would be suspicious if I opted out.
Yep. Makes sense then. Would it be suspicious if you had plans after the meeting before you went to "her" place?
MM
Stick to the plan , I dont think any changes at this stage would be helpfull.
Just keep the weekend as low pressure as you can , keep it fun , lead the way with activities , let her lead the way in other aspects if she wants to.
Good luck
Good point re: changes this late in the game. Have a great time with your girlfriend whom you're not pushing and just enjoying the time with.
Thanks you guys. It all starts tomorrow at 4:30pm, when I pick her up in our "usual spot".
You're right CW - I will be so cool this weekend, just enjoying her company and not pushing for any type of outcome.
I don't think there is anything that I can do to affect the outcome positively at this point anyway...it's all a process that she has to go through.
I don't think it's about me right now.....
You can affect things positively and that's by reading her and knowing what not to do, by doing what works. You know what that is!
I don't think it's about me right now.....
Such true words ..........
well MM good luck over the weekend. from my own 3 day sich ( and belive me we were waaaaaay less close then you guys are) she may need space over the time. give it too her. 3 days can be long for both of ya so its good you went a little dim. aww who am i kidding im jelious good luck buddy
Hey Minkerman,
Just thinking of you this weekend and hope that your trip is going well. Looking forward to hearing your news when you get back.
Purr
Well....for anyone who has been wondering how my 3 day weekend with W went, here is my report
First, if all you want is an update, I'll save you reading the whole thing (it is
really long), here is the executive summary:
- Are we back together? No.
- Are we going our separate ways? I don't know...doesn't seem like it.
- Did we talk about reconciliation plans? No.
- Was it "weird"? No!
- Did she go quiet, put up walls, or seem reflective at any point during the weekend? No!
- Did we talk, talk, talk, just like old times, despite a 3 hour drive in each direction, 3 breakfasts, lunches and dinners? YEAH BABY!
- Was there R talk? A bit, but not much.
So that's it in a nutshell...now here is the full deal.
---------------------------------
This weekend was our 28th wedding anniversary. Those who have followed my story know that things were going really well about 2 months ago, then she got scared that we were moving too fast, and she pulled way, way back. We have been up, down and all around, and she still hasn't decided what she wants to do about being married to me. 2 months ago I managed to get tickets to see the Dalai Lama and Dave Matthews (on the same bill - go figure) in Seattle, which was on our anniversary weekend. When W and I started to run into difficulties, I started to wonder what the heck to do with the tickets. About 3 weeks ago I finally told her I had them, and what did she want to do? She said she wanted to go.
So, fast-forward to Thursday night. We had to go to a meeting together, which was just a few minutes from her place. She invited me to spend the night. So I did. We had dinner, a couple of glasses of wine, and went to bed. no hanky-panky (we have decided to try not to have sex, it complicates things).
Friday morning, we showered, got the Jeep packed up and hit the road. Out to breakfast at McDonalds...a classy start! As we drove, she started talking about her thoughts about the upcoming weekend...she said she really just wanted to spend some time with me, with no expectations and no pressure toward any type of outcome (mental note: good info for me, thanks honey!). I told her all I wanted was to hang out with her, have fun, see a great event, go out for some nice meals, and do a bunch of shopping. Nothing more (which was true). So we high-fived and agreed that we would do it that way.
We chatted the whole way to Seattle, which was 3 hours driving in total. I enjoyed it. We got to the hotel, got parked and checked in, then it was already time to get ourselves to the event.
We got a cab, got to Key Arena, and for the next 5 hours, got to witness an incredible outpouring of love and music. The Dalai Lama spoke for an hour or so, then Dave Matthews played for what seemed like forever, solo acoustic. Dave is one of W and I's favorite musicians, and we were just basking in the whole experience. Many times I had my arm around her and she cuddled into me and had her hand on my knee. A few times I sensed her pulling back, that's OK, I just let it happen.
We went out for a late dinner when we got back, and it was really nice...the only weird thing was when she casually mentioned "I don't see you in my future, but I'm not discounting that you might be". I just let it slide off my back. It's just a sentence.
We went back to the room and went to bed, behaved ourselves once again, although she did ask for a foot rub, which I was happy to oblige. Once we settled into bed, she caressed my back for a few minutes, which was very nice...it's been a while since I've been touched in a loving way.
Saturday morning, we woke up and were talking in bed...I didn't want to say Happy Anniversary, just because it would have been inappropriate, in a way. So I just said "happy Saturday, W". She looked at me and said "happy Saturday to you too, anniversary boy", and she smiled with some light tears in her eyes.
I went out to Starbucks and brought back coffees and breakfast, and we took our time having a lazy morning, listening to music, showering, reading, and enjoying the morning sun. We had a corner suite on the 20th floor with a view of the water and city, so it was pretty spectacular. The weather was forecast to be a very unseasonal 76 degrees, so we were looking forward to Day 2: SHOPPING.
Finally around 10:00am, we ventured out and hit Nordstrom, Banana Republic, Tommy Bahama and a bunch of others...wow, Seattle is awesome for shopping. Altogether we spent about 2 grand in clothes and stuff...one thing we have never done over the years is treat ourselves to nice clothes, so we are making up for lost time.
We went out for lunch, then took the stuff back to the hotel around 2pm. Then we went out for a couple beers, and then walked down to Pike Place Market, on the waterfront. There were literally thousands of people out enjoying the HOT sunshine...it was like summer. We browsed bookstores, looked at what the vendors were selling, just really had a nice time together.
At no time did I try to hold her hand or be affectionate with her in any way. I just wanted us to hang out together and see how we were with each other. It was, so far, so good.
Saturday night we went out for dinner again, and then we went up to our room and watched some TV and drank a bottle of wine that we had bought at the market.
I gave her a deep back massage, and she gave me an equally deep foot massage. That'll have to do instead of sex...it was still really nice.
Around 11pm, it was lights out, we shared a goodnight kiss. We woke at about 2am, talked a bit, another little kiss, and we slept until 7am.
We almost got carried away in bed, but we were able to stop ourselves in time. Later, she said it felt awkward NOT having sex, since it just seemed so natural and easy for us. But we agreed, at least for now.
So this morning we watched a bit more TV, had a nice breakfast, then we packed up and hit the freeway. About 20 minutes into the drive she looked over at me and said, simply..."So?" I said "So what?". She says "So, how do you think this weekend went?". I told her I thought it was really relaxed, neither of us did anything strange, and I had a really good time. She nodded. "Me too, exactly" she said.
3 hours later we were back at her apartment, and I made sure I helped carry her stuff up, but didn't hang around. In fact, she said "oh, we forgot to put the parking pass on your Jeep!", and I said "that's OK, I'm not hanging around, I'm heading home".
I drove home (30 minutes) and she had already left a message on my machine. Saying good luck unpacking, she had just done it and it was harder than she thought it would be.
I called her back, we talked for 5 minutes, and at the end I said "W, I just want you to know I had a really nice time this weekend. It was great spending time with you".
She said "Yes it was, I had a really nice time too. It was a lot of fun, MM. Thank you so much for everything".
So!
Quite a weekend. Are we any closer to resolving this thing? Who knows. But at least we had an awesome time together, there was not a single uncomfortable moment, and we had fun.
Can't ask for much more at this point.
Geeeze MM , I would need a three day weekend to type that much!
That is all great stuff , You did not push , let the weekend flow, I think it will pay dividends to you in the future.
Dave
I think it will pay dividends to you in the future.
I sure do hope so, Dave. This weekend proved to me that, despite the fact that I have detached a lot from the drama, and that we have both changed in many ways...I really do want her to be part of my future.
One interesting thing, which we talked about.
W and me have undergone significant internal changes since separating. We are different people in our value systems and how we view the world. However, in our daily interactions, and how we appear to the outside world, we are 99% exactly the same.
Hey MM,
Congrats on the weekend! Sounds like you both really were able to have a sustained connection over the 3 days, which is really quite something! As usual, you were pro with handling the boundaries and balancing of things.
I'm interested to hear more about what you mean re: "significant internal changes since separating". Also, this: "I don't see you in my future, but I'm not discounting that you might be". was almost identical to my W.'s version: "I can't really imagine us together, but I can't really imagine myself with someone else either" and "I could see that we could stay together and it would all work out fine, but I could also see us not together and it would be fine too".
Love the clarity that this brings!! Wish I could have let it roll off my back like you did, MM! I look forward to hearing what comes next. You know, it sounds like putting some limits on stuff like the sexual interactions might have actually brought more closeness and greater comfort with each other. I'm with C_K...I think this is a good deposit in the ol' emotional bank account that you have together.
Purr
Also,
MM
W and me have undergone significant internal changes since separating. We are different people in our value systems and how we view the world. However, in our daily interactions, and how we appear to the outside world, we are 99% exactly the same.
This is something I can relate too, As W and me are often in each others company for whatever reasons the most common question I get is " are you two back together ?? ".
Even right at the begining we did discuss doing this separation "our way" and have probably both failed to conform with what the outside world would expect of a separated couple. We have at least talked about this with each other.
I think it comes down to the fact that we are separated for some very good reasons , however despite that we care enough about each other not to destroy whats left.
I think you are in a good place mm and with some patience the outlook is reasonable .
Dave
Nice weekend Mink. I wish I could do something like this with my W. It is just impossible at this time. She is to angry. We did spend Friday night, Satyrday and Sunday at S12 sporting events though. She was very curious where i was Saturday night and whom I was with. I played it a little cagey.
Great to hear you had a good time.
Yeah we had a really good time, but the normal pattern is that she will now reflect on the time together, realize that it's in conflict with her "plan", and pull back.
My DB coach says this is both predictable and normal. Doesn't mean I'll enjoy it!
Meanwhile, I have plenty to keep me busy.
I don't enjoy it either. But anything that goofs up their "plan" is good.
Hey MM,
I was thinking about that part where she said she wasn't sure / couldn't imagine a future with you in it etc. How did you let that roll off your back? I find if my W. says something like that, it feels so final, so heavy. I can't seem to look at it other than some really devastating thing to hear. How have you managed this differently / any advice?
Thanks,
Purr
Hey MM,
My WAW said the exact same thing to me - she didn't see us in the future together. It has everything to do with her seeing me not as an "equal" anymore, as someone who doesn't challenge her, and that is who she wants to be with, and who I used to be. I challenged her at first, but I haven't grown in the same ways she has and now she's with OM who is busier, more involved, and doing something similar to her. She sees me as someone who is resigned to life and she wants to be with someone who pursues life.
I say all this (I haven't read through your sitch) in case any of it rings true. Just brings up the old DB point - work on yourself, make yourself happier, remember who you used to be and maybe she'll remember too. That said, maybe you aren't the type of person your W wants, and that's okay. You need to determine who you are and what you want out of life. The rest falls into place.
lodo
Purr said:
How did you let that roll off your back? I find if my W. says something like that, it feels so final, so heavy. I can't seem to look at it other than some really devastating thing to hear. How have you managed this differently / any advice?
I don't know, Purr...I guess I just think really hard on the "believe none of what you hear and only half of what you see" doctrine. I have read through all of the success stories, and that seems to be a common theme...they say stuff like that to convince themselves that they are on the right path. Meanwhile, I listen for the clues that she is not done with me/us yet - and there are plenty, it's not just wishful thinking. I think that she has a slight glimmer of doubt, because, she is still in this, hanging by a thread.
Lodo said:
It has everything to do with her seeing me not as an "equal" anymore, as someone who doesn't challenge her, and that is who she wants to be with, and who I used to be.
That is exactly what my wife said, among other things. I told her I have a hard time challenging her on anything, when she lives 20 miles away, but move back home and you'll get all the challenge you can handle, baby.
I am settling in for the next hour with a nice 18 year old. Mmmmmm!
Single malt scotch, you guys, come on!!!
I just bought a book a friend recommended:
"Getting Back Together: How To Reconcile With Your Partner And Make It Last" by Bettie Youngs, Ph.D.
I'll let you know if I learn anything....peace out.
mm
I am not a big scotch fan , much prefer a good bourbon , have plenty of debates when I insist the best whiskeys are made in the USA.
I will be interested about the book and if it has any good advice.
This from a thread from 07 ( Googled it )
When you get a chance pick up a book called "Getting Back Together" 2nd edition. By Bettie Youngs, Ph.D, Ed.D and Masa Goetz, Ph.D. It is about how to reconcile with your partner and make it last. I read it this weekend and I found it to fill in a lot of blanks for me now that I am separated. Covers some areas about separation and reconciling that Divorce Remedy does not address.
Dave
I read half the book last night...it kept me up later than I would have liked, so I set my alarm for 6am instead of 5am. So what happens at 5:05am? W called! Well, I'm always happy to talk to her, so I didn't let on that I had been asleep.
She just wanted to bounce a couple things off me regarding her job, which is (just like our personal lives) a rollercoaster.
I told her she should be careful and not make too many waves, since it's a pretty high paying job, and she should have an exit strategy before doing anything dramatic.
She said "true, it's not like I can say MM I've lost my job, I need to come home".
I said "exactly...I just might question your motives for getting back together if that were the case".
We had a chuckle over that one.
Anyway, the book mentioned above. It's very good, so far. It really emphasizes GAL and having yourself on a solid base before even thinking of reconciling. The book says most couples reconcile too fast. That was certainly the case with us, back in October. Exactly what the book said would happen, did happen.
Anyway, I'll finish it tonight, it's an easy read. Go on Amazon and check it out, you can read the first chapter there.
Purr, my wife said the same thing.I don't know what to tell you, I just try to ignore it. Be strong.
Mink, Reconsiling is a tricky game. I have seen it with others. Go slow man. you are doing all the work that needs to be done. My sitch is getting worse and worse.
Off to the L's tomorrow.
Just checked the bank account online...once again, W has bought another month's worth of transit tickets.
It's only 57 bucks, and of course doesn't mean she knows she'll be out another month, but it bums me out nevertheless.
And of course, what's another month, in the grand scheme of 30 years? There is nothing I can do about it, it's not even something I'll talk about with her.
I'll just continue to "enjoy" the life of a married bachelor.
I'll shake it off - it's just my monthly reminder that I am separated.
Sigh.
Hey Mink,
Thanks for the feedback and the book sounds like it would be worth picking up. Amazon must do good business on this stuff...they should have some kind of LBS discount club card (unfortunately, I am indeed a club carrying member at this time--dangit!!).
The transit tickets thing is too bad. Isn't it weird how there are unique markers about things like that w/WAS? Extending a lease, monthy transit pass, booking time away by self, etc. So many indirect statements.
Wow, you guys really have a lot of shared history together. I'm trying to imagine that.
Keep going, Mink!
Purr
MM, the transit tickets are another one of those things that we who live by the microscope notice that may not actually mean much. Still stinks tho. I hate those reminders.
On our trip to Seattle, she bought a very nice handbag, that was quite expensive. She has never owned anything like that before, and I encouraged her to buy it - we had the money.
Well, now she feels it "isn't right" that she bought it. I told her "I'm not going to tell you how to think, but I wish you would just forget about it and enjoy it!".
So this morning I got an email from the Tommy Bahama store. They have an invitation-only sale tonight, 20% off everything.
So I sent her this:
Anything you’ve had your eye on, that you’d like to get 20% off?
Note that swimsuits are excluded, but I guess it’s the intro of their spring wear.
Think I will go and at least take a look tonight. You’re welcome to join me.
mm
Her response:
M, please buy something like pants or shorts....
Damn on the swimwear!
I’m still reeling on that purse I bought so I’ll pass.
Thanks for asking,
w
Me:
over the last 30 years i think you deserve to have bought something extravagant at least once, so maybe wrap your head around it that way!
don’t forget i bought 800 worth of clothes on your birthday, and i am eventually buying a new guitar.
mm
Her:
you're precious
thank you
Nice way to end the conversation, wouldn't you say?
MM,
Usually a brief email is either neutral or bad news (in my sitch anyway!). But this is awesome!! Wow!!
Isn't it just so attractive when the WAS allows themselves to be a bit vulnerable like this?
Sigh...
Good stuff, MM, keep it going...
Purr
Well, since that was a nice email, and I had a decidedly neutral phone convo tonight, I won't contact her at all tomorrow. During tonight's call, she casually mentioned that she needed to pay the landlord for April and May this weekend, since the landlord only comes to town once a month.
Pissed me off that she mentioned May, but what can I do about it?
Right after she mentioned it, she said "I feel bad, God it's such a lot of money". I sucked it up and said "no worries, we'll be fine".
We were both quiet for a few seconds...I know she was thinking. Right after that, I ended the call, said have a great day tomorrow, and hung up.
The roller coaster goes up and it rolls down again.....
be strong my friend. all we can ever do is be strong and dream of a better day with our S.
Today is definitely one of my "don't care what happens" days. I guess the detachment process is just that: A process.
Right now she could pull the pin and I'd say "whatever, have a nice life".
But I know these are just feelings, and feelings pass.
Stay tuned!
MM, the day after I have days like yours is usually followed by, me wanting my wife back even stronger then before. It sucks what the mind and heart can do to us day by day.
Yeah, I know...I've been here before too. Pretty sure it will pass.
Just wish I knew what was going on in W's head.
I'm back....
Hey Mink - just got done playing poker with the boys and need to unwind a bit before hitting the sack. Thought I would browse the boards and see how my DB buds are doing.
I can shed some light on your sitch.
When W and I attempted reconciliation, we went on a shopping spree for her. It was a LOT of fun. After a few days, she got real moody and began to question the gifts. My thinking was I just saved huge $$ on a divorce, this is peanuts.
What happened was that her guilt kicked in. While she enjoyed the moment, she felt that she was not a very good wife (which is true) and she did not deserve the gifts (which was also true).
You may be dealing with that.
I believe your W is very confused, but I do think that she is pulling away. In my opinion, you have taken many steps backwards from the car wash and sex days.
I know this is heresy on this board, but how long can you go on like this? Keep your options open.
Fish
It will be interesting to see what transpires over the next day or two. I have not made much effort to communicate with her this week. I have sent a couple emails, which she usually responds to...not this time. She is quiet.
She always pulls back after we have a good time, so this time I pulled back as well.
So, I am interested to see if this answers the question:
Does lack of contact from me give her the "space" she says she craves, and helps her clarify what she wants for the future?
Or,
Does lack of contact from me make her happier in her choice to not reconnect to the marriage?
On Sunday when I left her place, she said she would be over on Saturday (tomorrow) to help me put away all the stuff we took off our boat. Also, to pack away all the books that we aren't going to use.
I haven't called her to confirm, I just left it the way it was left.
Will she show up? Will she have rebuilt all her "walls" that came down when we were in Seattle last weekend? Or will she be open and sweet, the way she was last weekend?
Stay tuned to this channel.
Good luck my brother.
My concern is for YOU and your happiness. Mink - you and I have gottent to know each other over the past 6 months. You are an awesome dude who brings a lot to the table. There are many women out there that would give anything to be with a guy like you.
You have some big decisions to make in the very near future.
But this I promise... if things do not work out with W, you are going to be more than fine. My bet is that a guy like you will be
"off the market" very very soon.
Fish
Thanks Fish. I know I'm a catch, and that's why I can take my time. Even if things don't work out with W, I will be fine, I have women hitting on me now and then...in fact twice this week. One girl in Starbucks invited me to stay and drink my coffee with her, I had to pass, but she gave me her number! Yikes!! I would not be looking to get into another R right away anyhow, I still have some work to do on MM.
I went to my band rehearsal last night and we played from 7 to midnight...what an absolute BLAST! We played 28 songs in total...most were great, some good, and a few were utter shyte!
Anyway, W texted me as I drove home from work yesterday..."see you after your yoga class"...so I guess she is coming over.
Expectations at this point are absolute zero. I'll just enjoy her company and continue to live my goood life.
Well, my wife just left, she actually ended up spending the whole afternoon here, from 11am to 8pm.
We did all the little jobs we wanted to do, then had lunch and dinner, and in between, watched a couple of movies on the couch.
Based on the conversation, it really sounds like she's done, at least for now. She says it may change in the future, but right now she just doesn't see herself coming home anytime soon. The frustrating part: She doesn't understand why.
Sounds like she has the MLC bug, though she isn't the least bit nasty, like so many folks are while in MLC. She is her same old sweet self, affectionate and loving, she just doesn't want to come home.
She told me she is bored much of the time, and said she is jealous of me because I am keeping so busy. She said she misses being part of a couple, being touched, and just knowing there is someone there to talk to.
I told her she could have all of that back, with one sentence. She had tears in her eyes.
I just don't get it, but MLC is like that, isn't it?
It was really nice to spend time with her, but this definitely makes detachment easier.
Such a shame...we have such potential.
MM, that stinks. I guess you just have to do what you do, whatever you decide that is.
She also said she wants me to date other women...I suspect she wants to date as well. I asked her if she was thinking of D as an outcome of this. She said no, absolutely not at this point - we are "just" separated. She actually thinks dating others might bring us back together.
Anyone understand this???
I guess I can see where they are coming from. They don't want to really give up, they want to see if the grass is really greener and/or they just want to play with still having the spouse in reserve. It's risk free. In my book it's not OK. I am by no means a prude, but if you're married you don't date. Plain and simple. In addition, I can't see wanting to date while still married. Good God, our lives are confusing and complicated enough. Why bring a third party into it to screw it up some more?
Yeah but telling me she wants me to date, doesn't really keep me in reserve. She says she wants me to be happy, and I deserve a partner that I can 'share my gifts' with. She says she honestly doesn't know which way she wants to go. She understands that she may lose me through this process, and she doesn't know how that would make her feel.
This is all so f'in confusing.
In the meantime, I live my life, a day at a time.
No, HER dating while telling you she doesn't want a divorce keeps her from having to face the risks. If she doesn't file a divorce, then the option of staying married is still quite feasible. If she waits to divorce to date then she really is going to have to face the whole shebang.
Good morning, all in DB land!
Well, part of my GAL is coming to fruition this morning. I am participating in a 10k run, with 40,000 of my closest friends
It is a beautiful sunny day, and for sure this will get my endorphins going!
I hope to get a time of less than 1 hour, due to my slow recovery from a broken foot last fall.
Wish me luck!!
Good luck MM! Run like the wind.
Well, I did it!! 10k in 1 hour 10 minutes. Unfortunately it took 10 minutes of walking beyond the starting line before I could actually run. There were 59,000 runners and it made for a slow start!
At least I finished. Cross that one off my "life's to-do list"!
Well done MM
great effort.
As for your W do not get to disheartened . She is probably confused about what she wants and will sway one way and then the other.
Remember to validate her feelings , and then back off , you have been pushing things along and going well. These pull backs are not unusual.
I dont have much advice to offer as I am in a similar sitch and not sure what to do myself. We came quite close a month or so back and are now just drifting further away from each other .
I read on someones post a long time ago ( Success story as well ) where they were in a similar spot and then just took it all away . All the support , even the being best friends .
I will try and find that post , I am not for a minute suggesting this as its got to be risky .
All you can do it focus on yourself for now.
Dave
Mink my man -
Congrats on the 10K, that is awesome. You are the man!
Sorry to hear about the sitch with "W." I know my opinon now differs than almost everyone on this board, but if she gives you the ok to date - do it. Go out there and see for yourself if staying with W is right, or maybe there is someone out there that is far more compatible with the Mink Man and truly "gets" you.
Ever since I let my W loose 100% I feel free. It's great to have my ba**s back!
Fish
Thanks Dave, I always enjoy your posts.
Taking it all away is interesting, but not in my nature, I think. Although who knows - feelings change every day, hey just look at my wife!
It's easy to back off when things are like this, however.
It was weird yesterday, W asked me if anyone had shown any interest in me, so I told her the story about the girl in Starbucks (on Thursday of last week) asking me to have coffee with her, then when I didn't, giving me her number.
"You should ask her out" she said. "What? Are you serious?" I responded. "Yes, absolutely" she said "if you need my blessing to do it, you have it!".
What the hell do I do with that kind of dialogue? I didn't even have my usual witty response.
Am I being tested? Or is she genuine? Or does she want to feel less guilt about what she has "done to us"?
Questions for another day. My brain hurts!
EDIT: Saw Fish's post when I posted mine. Thanks for the feedback Fish, I take all of it in and process it with all the rest!
mm
I would not know what do do with that sort of comment either. Perhaps you are being tested. Women test us with out even knowing they are doing it , could be that shes throwing that out there quite sincerely but will be disappointed if you go ahead and date ??
The best advice would be be to stay on course with whats right for you.
You will know when its right.
Dave
Re: Fish
if she gives you the ok to date - do it. Go out there and see for yourself if staying with W is right, or maybe there is someone out there that is far more compatible with the Mink Man and truly "gets" you.
Fish: I take back my statement on your thread regarding what I had thought was the dumbest thing you'd ever said. Your statement above tops even that.
You are the most selfish and juvenile person all across these boards, fish. Hands down. You have no integrity, no wisdom and no sense of the value of family or what it means to temporarily deny yourself in the interest of a greater good. You are immature and ignorant
by choice, which is truly pitiful.
I can only hope no one on the board takes you or your "advice" seriously.
It's great to have my ba**s back!
That is funny.
There's a thin line between a bad*ss and a dumb*ass, fish.
You've crossed it by leaps and bounds.
Minkerman, choose your "mentors" wisely.
It was weird yesterday, W asked me if anyone had shown any interest in me, so I told her the story about the girl in Starbucks (on Thursday of last week) asking me to have coffee with her, then when I didn't, giving me her number.
"You should ask her out" she said. "What? Are you serious?" I responded. "Yes, absolutely" she said "if you need my blessing to do it, you have it!".
What the hell do I do with that kind of dialogue? I didn't even have my usual witty response.
Am I being tested? Or is she genuine? Or does she want to feel less guilt about what she has "done to us"? This is more than likely the case in my opinion, and although it won't be something she is aware of, I'd put money on it being the underlying reason for her statement.
Minkerman, if it is your heart's desire to save your marriage, your behavior, your integrity and your words have got to remain above reproach.
Minkerman, if it is your heart's desire to save your marriage, your behavior, your integrity and your words have got to remain above reproach.
I like that , its good advice.. I needed to read that today.
Thanks Amy.
I can't figure this girl out. Two phone calls and one super sweet email from her today.
She called me by one of my old nicknames, and signed the email with one of hers.
I just responded neutrally.
Thanks Amy.
I can't figure this girl out. Two phone calls and one super sweet email from her today.
She called me by one of my old nicknames, and signed the email with one of hers.
I just responded neutrally.
you're a smart man, minker.... listen to Amy.
ACK!
She just called 2 minutes ago, and advised me on what I should eat after my run (she used to be a personal trainer).
At the end of the convo she told me she had been listening to one of her iPod playlists, and a couple of the songs made her think of me, and it made her feel melancholy. She had that "choke" in her voice when she was telling me about it.
I told her that happens to me too, from time to time. I choose not to feel sad, and usually change the song.
WTF is going on, people? Help me out here.
WTF is going on, people? Help me out here.
Sounds to me like she is having a change of heart, does she often call you and tell you she saw or heard something that day that reminded her of you? I have not read your whole sitch but most of it, it does appear to me with what you have listed that some of the fog is lifting and she is starting to have good thoughts of you. JMHO.
mm
She is on her own emotional roller coaster right now. She is quite probably second guessing herself every step of the way.
Try to do what you have been over the last while , what drew her back to you again?
Make sure none of your old negative behaviours creep back in if you are getting complacent when she comes close.
What does she like you to do ?
My guess is you are going to get tested for a bit. The more you stay on your path the more she will respect you and trust you.
Do not panic ... You are doing well.
Dave
Fish wrote, "Ever since I let my W loose 100% I feel free. It's great to have my ba**s back!" Question: do fish actually have balls in the first place? I know they have gills but...I mean think about it, wouldn't ba**s really weigh them down and therefore make them potentially acquatic road kill for creatures that swoop down from the sky? I dunno. OK... sorry, It's just a question that had to be asked
Oh and Minkerman, DBing is a rollercoaster ride...hang on tight!
...but then again, if ba**s weigh them down then they'll be deeper in the water and therefore less likely to become a meal for those swooping creatures...OK, I'm done, back to Minkerman.
WTF is going on, people? Help me out here
It's almost never easy to contemplate ending a relationship so this is a natural process she is going through and expressing to you.
If you allow her to safely continue expressing these feelings without becoming argumentative with her and asking
"Then wtf are we split up?!"....I think you will lay the ground work for her to
continue expressing herself to you - positively AND negatively - and this type of COMMUNICATION can be your marriage's saving grace.
It's as simple as listening - and then thinking before you respond - and THEN responding with love no matter what the issue at hand IS. It means remaining vulnerable to a point. So you just have to ask yourself if you're willing to do that...
MM, what does your gut tell you to do? What does your gut tell you your W is thinking?
I think it's obvious that she's having second thoughts. Why she's having those thoughts, though, isn't as clear. This is all a guess from what you've written on these boards, but... I think a good part of her heart wants to stay. Yet as she said, she spent a good deal of time thinking about how to get out and she's in an internal fight with herself. She wants to be strong and independent and follow through with "her" plan. At the same time, she sees why she shouldn't, and doesn't want, to go. The dating comment was to see what you felt, what you wanted to do. I don't think it was as much of a test as it was a temperature check. Your reaction matters.
Bottom line, she's confused. She needs more time and doesn't know if you're able to give it to her. That's only a question you can answer. If your goal is still to save your marriage, then the answer is easy. If your goal isn't as clear anymore, the answer is more difficult to find.
CW, that is the most eloquent and helpful post you have ever written for me. Thank you.
Of course I do ultimately want to save our marriage, but it seems like such an uphill battle.
Guess I'll just enjoy the good times and deal with the not-so-good times.
Damn am I sore from my run!!!!!!
MM, thanks for the compliment. It is an uphill battle. A battle that you don't know if you can win, but you have to do what you think you should do. Continuing on is about you, just as her decision is about her.
My H and I could be in a similar battle. My H isn't near as ready as your H, but I feel he struggles with the same battle in his heart and mind that I see in your W. As where your W is looking at the getting back together part, my H struggles with even opening himself up to wanting to get back together. He says he was so unhappy for so long and escaping was his secret way to fix it. It's hard to dislodge those thoughts from the WAS's mind. I hope you find your peace and her too. I hope that's together. It's worth me noting that I think your approach to this whole thing will give you peace regardless of the outcome.
If you allow her to safely continue expressing these feelings without becoming argumentative with her and asking "Then wtf are we split up?!"....I think you will lay the ground work for her to continue expressing herself to you - positively AND negatively - and this type of COMMUNICATION can be your marriage's saving grace.
It's as simple as listening - and then thinking before you respond - and THEN responding with love no matter what the issue at hand IS. It means remaining vulnerable to a point. So you just have to ask yourself if you're willing to do that...
I love this. I will indeed continue to listen, and will not engage in any disagreement. I really haven't disagreed up to this point, and that may be why she is giving me a peek behind the curtain.
Telling me she misses being part of a couple, and having someone to talk to is a step in the right direction. Also, she tells me frequently, that I am attractive and that she "knows some woman is going to scoop you up soon if I don't sort out my thoughts"....this tells me there some second-guessing going on in that head of hers.
We shall see.