W called tonight, I just got off the phone 2 minutes ago. She doesn't want to work on the marriage anymore. Says she checked out years ago. Too much time thinking about how to get out, for us to have any chance at all.
This is not good. I feel like utter and complete crap.
She says that, despite the incredible times we had a couple of weeks back, she is not in love with me.
She says that if she moved back in without being "in love" with me, it would be unfair to us both.
Just when I thought it was going well.
It will be interesting to see what my DB coach says about this.
You are not done unless you want to be! That didn't change anything, mink! You just keep DBing!
I told her I wasn't giving up, that I would fight for her. She said she was inclined to be moving on.
I will continue to DB, but it seems like an uphill battle now.
It's no more of an uphill battle now than it was yesterday. You DB, she reacts or not, nothing's changed. Still might work, still might not. But it seems your best chance.
Thanks Jeff. Just really bummed out right now. Two weeks ago, we were moving back in together at the end of March.
Now, apparently we are going our separate ways.
Nothing at all happened in between those times, except her thinking.
I understand, Mink, just reminding you that there really wasn;t a change, just a change in what she said, which isn't really a big deal.
Look, there's a lot of thing it could mean. One real possibility is that she was afraid things were going to fast, and she isn't sure enough inside herself that that is what she wants. So what better way to slow things down! Jut remember, you have to take it slow too! I wonder if you got too enthusiastic when things felt better, and scared her off a bit? I really don't know, and I haven't read your thread all the time, so I don't want to guess. So, just get back to basic DBing, no expectations, and see what happens!
Good luck to you! This isn't a lot of fun.
While I certainly understand your feelings (and would be feeling them too) there's a very good chance that this is two steps forward, one step back. Think about it, you're in a place you've been before. Just keep doing what worked before. You've nothing to lose by keeping your cool.
Good point, cw. We have been here before.
The only difference now is that it will be easier for me to detach.
Very true. This time you know what to do and how to do it. She may be worried that the changes she sees aren't real. She may be scared of what lies ahead. She may be having a hard time saying she was wrong. Or she may simply mean what she says. But, IMO, you've just gotta keep fighting the good fight. Don't give in, don't give up your ideals, your morals and your convictions.
Mink,
Sorry to hear about this latest twist on things. When you are feeling up to it, maybe you can share more with us as to what happened / what she said. This must be really hard right now, since I know how good things were looking. More than that, the kind of reconnection you've been describing for the last couple of weeks sounds quite genuine and heartfelt on both your parts. This makes me think that something--like fear--has triggered this apparent 180 for her. I'm thinking like some other posters are suggesting that this could be that BECAUSE things were feeling positive, it just freaked her out that it was moving fast. The idea of actually moving back together was probably daunting. Who knows--maybe she had a dream or something or it all just overwhelmed her for a bit and she panicked and told you this.
Remember, you are still in DB mode!! Everything you've done to get to this point is still totally valid. I'm not convinced this is it...there are some other pieces missing here. Keep us posted and hang tight. We're here for ya.
Purr
I am surprised to read that this happened! Please wait a few days. She sounds like she's still sorting things out.
{{{HUGS}}} in the meantime!
Thanks you guys. I will try to sleep now, have my first coaching call in the morning, then check back in. Man, this is horrible. Thanks again for your well wishes.
MM your are in my prayers.
Well I just had my first coaching call with Joanne. She was absolutely AWESOME! She gave me a ton of homework, was very direct in what I was doing right, and what I was doing wrong.
I now have a game plan to get my life on track FOR ME, which will hopefully create some question in W's mind about her choices. I have a goal, with steps to show whether we are seeing progress.
The premise is simple:
Look very carefully at what has created positive interaction. Focus on that.
Look very carefully at what has definitely NOT been working. Stop these behaviours immediately, this second.
LRT is called for in this case. I must not initiate any contact whatsoever, unless it is an emergency or important. Don't "create" situations to contact her.
We agreed that W is probably in MLC. The plan to work on this needs to take that into account.
Game on!
come join us in MLC. It is hell man and I always had this in the back of my mind with your sitch.
What is LRT? I forget.
Your going to be OK Mink.
LRT = The Last Resort Technique. It's in the DR book...
I will consider coming over to MLC forum, I'll just see how things go for now. We have a big birthday weekend coming up for her and her mom.
No expectations or hopes for now, the more I push my own agenda, the more it tells her she is doing the right thing by leaving.
Yeah Tree, I know I'll be OK....it's just getting to be a little exhausting.
This is interesting, as a side note.
Just for fun, I get a daily horoscope and tarot card reading on my Facebook page. Here's what today's tarot card says:
_________________________________________________________________
The Chariot
The Chariot is the representation of victory and a reminder that, through dedication and perseverance, great obstacles can be overcome. This card indicates that you are in control of your destiny and that your will is strong. Your refusal to surrender is your great attribute at this time. You will soon find yourself in a difficult situation that requires you to be in complete control of your actions and confident in your abilities.
_________________________________________________________________
That is so accurate, it is scary.
MM i am so glad you had a good morning my friend. as you are trying to show me not every set back is permanent. i hate tyo use figurative speek but you have to "ride the roller coster" she goes way up and comes way down.
I am comfortable with however this turns out at this point.
My big 180 today was to tell her that I have thought about what she told me last night, and she is right. If she feels she needs to move on, if she has been trying to find a way out for 12 years, who am I to tell her what her feelings are or should be? I am not going to talk her into staying, when she clearly thinks she is not "in love" with me. How satisfying could that be?
She has to want it.
I have officially "dropped the rope" and will continue to stand guard on my marriage while letting her think I am moving on. My needy behavior has gotten us to this point, now let's try this and see what it does.
Big risk, I know. But, to her, this would be completely unexpected behavior from me. I need to shock her.
Good plan Mink.
It is exhausting. If you have been on my MLC page you will see I often think of giving up.
BUT I am in for the long haul.
Hang tough Minky you will be fine. Getting a coach was a great Idea.
Hey Mink, just popped in, I'll read and catch up soon, but...
Dude, don't do this to shock her. Do it for you. Believe it. Believe that you can move on. Really drop the rope.
You are 100% right. It wouldn't be satisfying if she stayed with you while she was not in love with you. It wouldn't be satisfying if you tricked her, or shocked her, into being with you.
When she comes back, when she can say ILY to your face and really mean it, you will feel so elated, you'll know that it's what you're really hoping for. But you can't get there until you really drop the rope.
Yay, I'm glad C is sounding good to you.
IMHO, don't think too much about MLC. She's not nearly as crazy as what I've read over there. This is as good as place as any for you to post. SOME people on the MLC thread forget that it doesn't matter if it's MLC, an affair or anything else. You still got to do the right steps. GAL, PMA, don't initiate R talk, all that good stuff.
Man, that's good and simple - do what works, stop doing what doesn't. Harder to put into practive, but you can do it MM.
I talked to 2 different DB coaches. I got some good advice. I recommend you listen to her and really try to do what she says.
Yep, I will, LN. I am dropping the rope for real...I think it will surprise her, but I have to do this to keep my sanity. I am not ready to move on quite yet, but I am ready to let her move on.
Who knows what will happen? Certainly not me.
She said last night "I wish I had a crystal ball". So she is still slightly unsure of what she wants. But I told her she's free now, to do what she wants with no pressure from me.
I do feel bad for her, she must be going through hell too.
More to come, I'm sure........
In a hurry to get out the door for yoga, but two weird things just happened.
1. She called me and apologized for some of the things she said last night.
2. She called me again 15 minutes later to talk some more.
I DB'd like a pro. Happy, upbeat, agreed with everything. I really do just want her to be happy.
She asked me if I would be dating anyone...I said I don't know, maybe, haven't really thought about it.
Ack, what a ride.
Hey, about dating. Ask you DB coach about that. My guess is the right answer is to say No, i'm not and won't be dating. I'm married, or Yes, but only my wife, something like that.
One of the things I think lead to my wife coming back is that she felt safe with me. She felt safe that I wouldn't hurt her by fooling around (again), by making her pay for what she did (forgiveness)and that I would be there for her.
Hope yoga was good and mind refreshing.
See MM, she's not gone yet. I would bet she won't go. She really just needs the time and space to figure stuff out herself. She needs you to be strong and patient. It's so d@mn hard to do, 'cause you're hurting, but you can do it, you are doing it.
I won't be dating anyone. Not until she completely pulls the pin and I am 100% sure she is never coming back. We're not there yet, I don't think so anyway...
BTW, at the end of the first phone call, she said "I love you". I said it back to her. What's up with THAT?
Yoga was very good.
Two steps forward, one step back...
You called it, cw!
It would be nice if there was some consistency, but that ain't the name of this game.
A couple of weeks ago, I bought concert tickets and 2 nights in a hotel in a different city for our 28th anniversary next month. That was during the time when things were looking up. I told her tonight I was going to get a refund and cancel the hotel. Her reaction?
"Don't you dare cancel, I want to go!"
Arrgghh.
Just thought of this. LN, you said your W came back because she felt "safe" with you.
I think my W would feel safe right now, knowing there was no R pressure. I don't want her to think there will be unrelenting pressure from me every time we interact.
That goes into the "what isn't working" column.
Once again, I won't be dating. I just want her to know that what she told me the other night was heard by me, and that I have detached.
To this point, I have communicated to her that I am waiting for her, and would continue to do so. Didn't work. So now, this is different, unexpected behavior. Maybe it will do nothing, but maybe it will get her thinking....
Well today I woke up and found she had texted me last night while I was at yoga. Just small talk, saying she had found a way to listen to some motivational stuff online. Definite baby step. I didn't reply.
Next: I have been waiting weeks for a chance to talk to a Senior VP of a competitor, for potential talk of a job change. Today he emailed me. Wants a breakfast meeting 2 weeks from today. So I broke my code (don't initiate contact with W) just this once. I emailed her simply "let the games begin" and pasted the VP's email below it.
Here's her response:
WOO HOO!!!
I'm so excited for you....Now it's my turn to say that I want all good things for you and I hope you get what you want from your meeting :-) Shoot for the moon Mink - you deserve itShe's acknowledging all the times I've cheered her on, and wishing me well, too.
Maybe not a baby step, but a positive exchange with no hint of R talk or pressure.
Any day that we don't go backwards is a positive for me. Neutral is the new forward
Mink, why isn't it a baby step? I think it was. She was so happy and positive for you. I think you had 2 baby steps today. Great job!
Jen
Well, Jen...I guess we will find out on Saturday and Sunday.
For those who haven't been following my intrepid journey, Saturday is her birthday. I have purchased a beautiful gift for her, and I'm taking her out to a high-end restaurant. This was all arranged when things were going well for us, and she told me not to cancel.
Sunday, the whole family is coming here for dinner, to celebrate both W's and her mom's birthdays. It should be a total blast.
Although I plan to be a DB robot the entire weekend, I would appreciate everyone's advice on how to be, what to do, what NOT to do, etc.
For instance, do I kiss her when I pick her up? Hug? Because it is a romantic restaurant, will she feel pressured or relaxed? I suppose it depends on how I behave ~
Sunday will be easier. I will just relax...enjoy her company, and enjoy seeing my kids, their partners, and the in-laws. Interact. Laugh. Pay attention to her, but not too much. See if she comes to me. Look for signs.
Sound like I'm on the right track?
MM,
Yeah, sounds like you're on the right track.
For Saturday, Be fun, open, witty, interesting, etc. Stay the course. Don't have R talk. Don't initiate a hug. Be as relaxed as possible. You're out with a good friend, that's all. No romance, just fun.
You may, MAY, be in a stage where you can flirt a little. What does you DB counselor say? At one point mine told me it was time to start flirting and she gave me some specific words to say. (trying hard now to remember them :-P)
I say better too slow than too fast. Detaching always brings them closer.
Have fun.
Thanks LN. Better too slow than too fast. Yeah, look where "too fast" got us!
We'll have that beer yet, you and me...
have you seen beer prices lately! Problems with the hop crop I hear. But it'd be worth it.
You will be fine Minky. Be yourself and enjoy the weekend. I can't wait to see how you do.
Cheers
Just had to add one more for tonight.
W called a while ago...we talked for 80 minutes....my ear is sore!
Really, really nice chat, she asked a little more about the email I sent a few days back, basically saying I was comfortable with her moving on, and I don't expect her back; same goes for me.
She said "why did I wake up this morning thinking you wanted a divorce?"
I told her again that I prefer that we are together, but if she wants to move on I won't hold her back. I do mean that. There is no pressure, and no guilt to be felt by either of us.
She thanked me for that, and then threw a bit of a curveball. Started throwing "if we get back togethers" into the conversation. I said we went too fast last time, so now we should just relax and take it easy. We should start again as friends and just see where that takes us. She agreed and thought we should keep the future open.
Two nights ago I asked her if she thought she'd be moving on. She said probably.
Tonight she is saying "if we get back together".
Big baby step!
Keep fighting the good fight, MM.
Good job! Seems you are on the rollercoaster they talk about. Whatever you are doing seems to be working.
Jen
I am just listening and agreeing. That seems to help her feel less pressured.
With less pressure, her "dug in" position may soften.
She phoned me again this morning at work. At the end of the call, I said, by the way, I enjoyed our talk last night. She said yes, it was a very good chat.
Don't set your expectations too high for this weekend. It may be interesting to see what happens, but don't expect wonders. You're on a HUGE rollercoaster, and it goes up...and this weekend might come DOWN.
Just be prepared, but from my angle, things are looking up for you. BABY STEPS.
Point taken. I really will try to let it just be two great friends getting together for dinner.
However, here's a question.
What if she comes on to me? What if she gets those lovin' feelings?
The reason I ask is because it happened 3 weeks ago. Just the two of us, no expectations, out for dinner, halfway thru the night she starts saying, "what am I going to do with you?" then starts touching my arm, playing with her hair, flirting like crazy. By the end of the night she was saying she wanted to get back together. I stayed overnight, and that was it, we were back on.
Should I say "hey you, I thought we agreed to take this slow" and shut her down? Not a big boost to her self esteem.....
Better to play hard to get than hard to want!
Leave her with her wanting more. OK, you might be wanting more, too, but think of the benefits. Flirt with her, let her lead and tell her that you want her, you just want to go slow and do things right.
Mink, you are on a ride man.
BTW: I don't see anything wrong with a birthday hung!
Ypu are going tobe fine. Enjoy.
Cheers from pieceful Colorado!
Sheesh. Hang on, what a ride.
She called me at home the minute I walked in the door. Nice, easy call, about 10 min in length. A few days ago I sent her a link to a music video on YouTube that I thought she'd enjoy. She called just to say how much she liked it, and asked if I would like her to buy the DVD for me. Wow...what a nice gesture.
"Sounds good", I said.
Another baby step...just hope it's not walking the plank.
Baby steps are where it is at. What a ride. I feel now that my R is moving in the wrong direction but I am going out skiing and GALing and I am going to live in the moment today!
How does that sound?
Mink...
Sorry that I may have been ignoring your sitch I am a bad dog. So even though you have not asked me specifically here are my me thinks for you.
You are in the exact same spot as I was in December!!!! Really similar. So she came on to me and I went with it and we had sex which was great I knew to expect that she would pull back or even worse and she did. But the effect of the physical contact was the tide that turned the sitch. She kept throwing me back out of the house and kept telling me that I should not get the wrong idea, but she was making all the moves and I was doing nothing.
It was classic don't believe what she says and not read into anything she does. I just enjoyed the physical contact. Of course it killed me when she told me it was just sex and we were not getting back together, but in the end I could tell that she was opening up to me even though we were seperated and she was sending me out of the house every chance she got.
Me thinks that you let her lead in every situation you are in this weekend. If she wants to be kissy kissy the do it, if she pulls back or cuts it off no biggie just pretend you're in high school again! If she wants to roll around, go for it. Don't make anything complicated... just keep it simple.
Mink my man it seems you are back on the path. If she gets those " love feelings" then let her make the moves. like Hound says if she pulls beck fine if she goes through even better.
Just sitting here at my desk an hour ago and this email came in:
looking forward to dinner tomorrow. what time is dinner and would you like to come by early?
My response:
sure, sounds good...dinner is for 7, i could come over early. i’ll be in touch
I am playing it as cool as possible. I know she is scared and skittish...I'm just her best friend.
Your a pretty good best friend Mink. Look how far you have come since the beginning of this journey. Keep your eye on the prize.
I wish I was where you are! You are playing it great man!
DB MVP for 2008. followed closly by the Fish.
I hope you have a great time Mink!
Oh no BT....Fish is way ahead of me! He is actually back together with his W.
I have no expectations for this weekend, so that limits my ability to be disappointed.
But thanks, BT. I appreciate the support.
Houndfan is the DB most valuable player for 2008. He has taught me so much.
I am writing this email from the Fish Command Center. W and D are sound asleep. Me, due to GAL I am used to staying up until 4AM on Friday night.
Easing back into home life is a big adjustment, but the wife is loving it. We really have been having a lot of fun. Sex, good wine, good food, tennis, etc.
If you have chemistry with your spouse, keep your marriage together. If not, walk away.
Fish is rocking again!
Adios
Oh, we have chemistry, baby. Serious chemistry.
That is, I think, what is confusing the @#$% out of her.
What if you have chemistry but H wants to separate the physical from the emotional? If he can do that, does it show that the physical isn't strong enough?
Just sitting here at my desk an hour ago and this email came in:
looking forward to dinner tomorrow. what time is dinner and would you like to come by early?
My response:
sure, sounds good...dinner is for 7, i could come over early. i’ll be in touch
I am playing it as cool as possible. I know she is scared and skittish...I'm just her best friend.
So I'm sitting here at my laptop, enjoying my favourite music and a fresh cup of coffee, looking out the window at my incredible view (20th floor, waterfront)....I am grateful that, despite all of this, I really do have a great life.
*DING* goes my MSN Messenger...it's W's birthday today so I wished her happy BD, she said thanks. She said her girlfriend is taking her out for brunch, so she'll be out for a while.
W: "I'll be out for brunch with J, what are your plans for the day"
MM: "I have a pretty full plate today, just busy"
W: "What time should I be back home?"
MM: "Don't know when I'll be done, so I'll let you know later"
W: "OK"
MM: "anyway, gotta run, say hi to J, talk to you later"
W: "k bye for now"
Tonight I am taking her out for dinner, I have no expectations, I am simply spending time with a girlfriend that I am just getting to know.
Last night was a blast. Went out with a group of 10 people from work...beer, wings, lotsa laughs. Then I went home with one of the guys who is a musician like me, and we jammed in his apartment for about 2 hours. We are both multi-talented, so we took turns playing guitar, bass, drums, keyboards and singing.
These are the kinds of things I need to start doing more.
Keep it going, Minkerman!
Mink you are on a roll. Keep it up brother!
I have to give the chemistry thing some good thought.
Have fun tonight Brother. Let us know how you do.
Thank you BT (and everyone).
Well the intrepid Minkerman is just heading out the door.
Bought some nice new duds for my GAL program, and I'm wearing them tonight...she will be floored.
7 jeans, Banana Republic shirt, Tommy Bahama linen blazer, silk turtleneck, new dress boots. Wearing about 800 bucks worth of clothes. I usually shop at Sears and can dress myself for about a hundred.
Another 180, and an expensive one!
Wish me luck, team! I'll feel you all watching over me tonight.
I did the same thing last week. I spent $1200 on cloths. I don't think I have bought any cloths for myself in 20 years. If feels so good to where them and everyone, except you know who, says I look great!
Go Minky!!!!!! Enjoy and we want a full report in the morn!
I've been buying myself clothes, too, and that's a big 180 for me. I'm completely happy in old jeans, a long sleeved cotton t-shirt (my favorite article of clothing) and cool shoes (shoes and jackets were the only "things" I sought). But since I've dropped weight, my old comfy clothes don't fit anymore and I'm trying to replace them with stylish comfy clothes. H is definitely noticing and I have to admit that I'm enjoying being more fashionable.
They notice but they say nothing. Really weird. When my W looks nice I tell her several times. Well at least I feel good.
Mink....Come on man... you are holding back on us. What happened?
Not holding back...just finished getting everyone out the door!
The whole weekend went without a hiccup. The sitch has turned itself back around yet again. It is exhausting, but in a very good way. This time I am being much more cautious, and waiting to see how she feels in the next day or two. But here is what she told me.
"We are going to do this. I know I have doubts, and I don't know why. But I think it's 'go big or go home'".
I said "how about 'Go Home' "...big laugh from both of us, cuz she didn't realize she was making a pun.
Her concern is that over the years her feelings for me have changed, she says her feelings of love are far less than they used to be, because of not wanting to discuss the affair, and my general lack of communication overall...thereby losing our emotional connection. I told her that feelings grow from a spark to an ember, to a flame...over time. When we first fell in love it wasn't full throttle feelings of love on Day Two...this is the same, we are starting again, brand new.
She feels extremely good and positive when we are together, but when she goes back to her lonely apartment, she overthinks everything to the point of not knowing what to do.
I told her I was not pining for her anymore...I really want her home so we can get to work as a couple, but if she didn't want to, I have no guarantee that I will wait for her. She understood, and realizes that there is a potential to be losing what she wanted all along.
Anyhow, lots of good, deep talk...she knows the door is open but she knows I may move on if too much time passes.
So here is how the weekend went.
I went to her place at 5pm (had 7pm dinner reservations). She really wanted me over earlier but I held back since I had a bunch of other stuff I wanted to do first.
Walked in the door, didn't go to her for the hug, just walked over to the counter and put my keys down.
She went and sat by the window with her glass of wine. I walked in front of her with my beer, she said "whoa! stop and let me see those jeans!" I stood in front of her and she ran her hand across the front (yeah, you know where) and pronounced them quite acceptable. We sat and talked, just small talk, really really nice. The sun was shining, we were both in a good mood and I was definitely not coming across as eager. Cool, calm, quiet but nice.
We both stood up to refill our drinks and she put her arms around me and kissed me. She looked right into my eyes and said "you feel good, and smell good too". "Thanks" I said.
So eventually we went to the restaurant, and got seated. I didn't like the table, wanted one by the window, so I spoke up and asked to be moved. She was very surprised, because this is not something I would do.
We had an awesome meal, very memorable. Great wine, ahi tuna, sea bass, great desserts. I drove back to her place and she invited me up. "Sure" I said. "Sounds great".
As soon as we were in the door, she was on me. Sparing the details, we had a pretty darn good time for the next hour.
She asked me to spend the night, by that time I would have anyway, I was pretty tired!
We had a beautiful sleep, woke up at 4am, talked for a little while, then slept again til 7am.
We went out for brunch, went to Tommy Bahama where I bought her a nice jacket, then back to her place. A while later we jumped into our cars and headed back to my (our) place, where we were having a big birthday dinner with 10 people.
That was a lot of fun, we ate chinese food, drank lots of wine & beer, told stories and looked at photos.
Nobody would leave, so finally she whispered to me "I really need to get home, I have to get my sleep". So I walked her to her car, and she said she would have stayed if everyone would have left earlier...damn! "Plenty of time for that later" said Mr Cool.
As I was saying good night, she said she loved me, so did I. She said she wasn't going to change her mind this time. One more kiss and she was gone. I didn't hang around to wave, just went upstairs.
This was a great weekend. I think we are really going to do it this time...but let's see what morning brings.
She just called to say she got home OK, and that she really enjoyed the weekend.
I hope this is it, and we can get down to it now.
See, two steps forward, one step back. It will probably be up and down for a while, with the downs getting smaller and smaller each time. Congratulations, this is really good for both of you.
Mink i am glad your back on the path. your posts are back to being optomistic. she realy seems to be coming around just keep playing it cool.
Nice work man! I envy you and am so happy for you. You played it perfect and are on your was!
Thanks Tree...but I am not thinking of it as "playing" anything!
I am really just being very aware of what brings us closer together and what pushes us apart.
Over the past couple of weeks I have really learned what she likes and doesn't like.
LIKES:
- gifts
- me acting slightly detached (which I am)
- seeing me breaking stereotypes that she has of me
- me spending money on myself (I am a cheapskate)
- R talk (but only when she initiates it)
- seeing my GAL activities
DISLIKES:
- too much contact, email, phone, text
- me planning too much stuff for us to do
- excessive romance (I am letting her lead for now)
- too much talk of "our future"
- ANYTHING that can be perceived by her as pressure or pushing
So, I am just trying to do more of what she likes, and doing less of what she dislikes. But I am not JUST doing it for her to 'get her back', I am simply very aware of these behaviors, and stacking the deck in my favor.
I am genuine in my feelings for her, and genuine in how good I think we can be, once we are back together. I am not trying to trick her into anything, just being sensitive to her needs and wants.
So....let's see how today goes. Because today is all we really have, isn't it?
MM, you're a model to me and not just because things are going well between your wife and you. I'm with you in that I'm genuine in how good I think my H and I can be, once we are back together. Just gotta get the rest of your M.O. and feelings down.
Keep up the good fight, man. We're fighting ourselves, our old relationships as well as the situations our spouses have chosen to put us in.
Mink,
"Playing" was the wrong choose of words by me. Sorry.
I am so happy for you.
Tree
No worries! On Saturday she hinted that she almost felt like she was being 'played'...I got a bit ticked off at that and told her so. I told her I was just being aware of her needs, and that isn't playing her, it's being present in the moment. 'Good distinction' she said.
So my words were realy bad. Sorry man. Congrads.
I wish I was being played. I have had no contact since Wednesday and feel kind of low. I get home at mid-night tonight.
Hey Tree, it's fine
So on Wednesday, I am taking W out for a glass of wine & dinner at the funky wine bar I took her to a couple weeks back. Then I am going to her place to fix her laptop.
At the end of the phone call I just finished she said, oh why don't you stay over on Wednesday night?
Oh, ahhhh.....sure, that sounds great, I said.
She is reaching out. Must be very hard for her. I won't screw it up this time like I did last time. I was way too eager last time and wanted to accelerate things at light speed. Blew up in my face.
Your intrepid Minkerman will be Mr. Cucumber from now on.....
Now it's an hour later and she just called again. She wants to come with me to my yoga class on Saturday, then come to our place and sort through some old CDs so she can put them into her iTunes on her laptop.
"Maybe I'll pack a bag" she said (sleep over). "That sounds great" said Mr Cucumber
This good, very very good.
Any advice, folks? I am very aware of the potential pitfalls here....
MM,
I am so happy to read how things have turned back. You both seem to be approaching things with some clarity but cautious pacing. That's what makes me feel really encouraged in reading your sitch over the last several days...it seems like both of you are doing this differently. Good for you for finding that balance of staying grounded and also letting things play out.
I feel really proud of you and happy about your sitch, though I feel quite down about mine right now. I hate that hopeless feeling; sometimes I just don't know how I'm going to get through any of this mess. Anyway, it's good to read some success stories and hear about some freed up sense of love rekindling in people's lives.
Best,
Purr
Mink my man to see how you were when this thread first started and to see it now....
i re4comend buying the 5 love languges book. i see your list og her likes and dislikes. reciving gifts is one of the 5. if you can find out her other one then you will only make you position better.
Good idea, Marcum, I will grab that book in the next day or two. Thanks for your kind words, all.
Just a bit more background/journaling.
W told me last night to just take things easy...I said "no problem, I'm in a different mindset than before anyway".
She said "I know that last time I wigged out when you put on the pressure. If it happens again, I know I'll be out 'til at least June". I said "don't worry, you aren't gonna wig out this time...no pressure at all".
"Good" she said.
So she's waving me in, but at a walk, not a run. Mild threats for me to behave myself "or else"
I can easily do this. Her pace is fine with me. Before, I got waaaay too eager...this time, because I am detached, I can just enjoy the easy pace and continue my great life as a bachelor.
I hope this narrative is helping someone other than me, and that it's not too boring!
Hey, are guys like communicating or what! What a great thing to have in a relationship!
It's such a positive sign that she is telling you her feelings.
Wow, I have no idea how mine feels, other than "don't back me into a corner". He says it nicely and with feeling though. Does that count?
Mink, you are an inspiration. My sitch is going the other way. I keep getting dragged into her big black hole. All she wants to do is be snutty and argue. This is hell.
Well, next step...meet her after work tonight at the funky wine bar, for dinner and a couple glasses of vino (just called her to confirm...yep, we're on).
Then I am going to her place, where (so far) she has asked me to stay the night.
One day at a time. I'll let you know how it goes.
Mink,
Can you copy my last thread in "Broken Tree WAW MLC". It's under MLC.
Thanks man!
Mink,
Can you copy my last thread in "Broken Tree WAW MLC". It's under MLC.
Thanks man!
So last night was "just OK". We had dinner at the wine bar, had a nice time and talked a lot, but I could tell she was under a bit of a black cloud. I didn't push it, I was just myself and I kept the convo light. Work stuff, things I've been doing etc.
Then she told me something interesting. She said, if we did go our separate ways, she knows I would hook up with someone easily because I am "a catch". I said, well thanks for that...but if I'm a "catch", why are you resisting getting back with me? "I don't know exactly" she said.
So, the convo carried on to other topics, and we eventually left and went to her place. We cracked a bottle of wine and she asked if I'd give her a foot rub, so I said sure.
The convo came back around to "us" again (from her, not me) and we ended up really having a good talk. I was super cool, and she did most of the talking.
She feels that coming back home would feel like a "failure to execute her plan" that she had been cooking up over the past year or so. I said, yeah, I can see that, especially based on how we were when you left. Of course you have to realize things have changed between us now, and you would not be coming back to the same situation....she knows that, and that's the part that makes her want to come home, but "the past" makes her 2nd-guess her decision.
I told her she thinks too much!
She asked if I was getting frustrated with her indecision. I said yes, a bit, but she can take her time, it has to feel right to her. No guarantees on how long I will wait, however. She said she was frustrated as well, with her own indecision!
We slept together (no sex this time, both too tired) and drove in to work together. I know I am in a "cool" mood, I need to snap out of it, she doesn't need to see this.
Dropped her off at work, I said "see you Saturday" and that was it. Like I said before, at least neutral isn't backwards!
This all sounds good Mink. Take it slow man. Check out my sitch when you get a moment. I would like your thoughts.
Not bad, MM. Of course, what we all want is for our S to run up to us and say, "I made a HUGE mistake! Yes, let's be together forever!" but the reality of it is that they need to be as sure as they can if/when they come back or the cycle will most likely repeat. I think part of my husband's mind can't get around the idea of coming back because he sat there wanting to escape for so long.
I think you're in good shape and are reacting honestly as well as comforting. Keep it up.
Mink - You played it perfectly!
By the way... the next time she asks for a foot rub, tell her no thanks.
I personally believe all that foot rub sh*t is a way for them to reinforce that they have control over you.
Don't play into it, your wife wants to come back to a real man.
ahh Mink[
quote=minkerman]
She feels that coming back home would feel like a "failure to execute her plan" that she had been cooking up over the past year or so. I said, yeah, I can see that, especially based on how we were when you left. Of course you have to realize things have changed between us now, and you would not be coming back to the same situation....she knows that, and that's the part that makes her want to come home, but "the past" makes her 2nd-guess her decision.
I told her she thinks too much!
this indecision thing is the same with my W. says she wants to work on the marrage but if she does make a move she retreats as its " scary". I know exacly the pain you feel when she says stuff like that, if your outsides cool or not. there gets to be a " what about me? when is it my turn?" feeling. Im glad you told her you wouldn't wait for ever. i realise that like myself you probably will ( incert weak laugh) but they cant know that
Thanks Fish. I was really just going with the flow. Clint Eastwood was on my mind
No foot rubs this coming weekend, maybe I will suggest one for myself "it's my turn, honey".
On another note:
A bit of an "aha moment" last night. A peek into her tent...
I sent her one email the day before yesterday, mentioning a concert by an artist she likes, that I had heard announced on the radio. Thought she might like to know, just for herself.
Then yesterday I emailed her asking what time she was getting off work. So last night, she said to me (in a playful manner) "you can't go a day without contacting me, can you?" I said "Can too". Later, I thought about what she was really saying...she seems to see it as predictable and needy.
So, no calls or emails until I see her next time. I'm pissed about that, mostly at myself. But also at her too...this has always been our dynamic, with me initiating contact.
This is a perfect opportunity to change that dynamic.
Minkerman:
What you are doing, is working.
The primary DB motto is, "Keep doing what works, stop doing what doesnt work."
So i would suggest not making changes to what you are doing, just because someone else thinks you need to "act like a real man".
Forget "acting like a real man"... act in the way your wife shows you by her actions, that she wants.
PS: on your wife's comment... she might just as easily have been fishing for a compliment. She MIGHT have been fishing for, "you're right, you are just irresistible!"
Dont just go with what has worked with other peoples' wives. Go with what works, for your wife
You might be right in that it could be time for you to stop daily pursuing.
Consider that "not pursuing" is a lot different from "turning down a direct request for a foot rub", though.
If you want some attention for yourself, you might want to instead counter with, "how about giving me one first?"
Thanks Dom...appreciate you looking in on my thread.
I am phoning today to schedule my next DB Coaching appointment. Hopefully I can get something tomorrow morning or afternoon.
W was more upbeat this morning than she was last night, but I have learned not to read too much into the daily mood swings and/or communications.
As long as it remains neutral with brief periods of forward movement, I am satisfied. She did ask to slow things down a few days ago, and the best way to do that is to reduce pursuing behavior to a minimum and let her take the lead.
If she is cool, be cool. If she is talking of 'our future', be receptive, but still cool.
I am pretty sure she will return, but certainly not because of anything I say or do. At this point it's more about what I don't do, I think!!
Hey MM you are my hero. every time i get down about mu sich ( whitch is every day lol) i read your threads and see theres hope. do me a favor and read my new stuff. my wife likes wine like you guys seem to and i need some info on what to do this upcpmmin weekend
Then yesterday I emailed her asking what time she was getting off work. So last night, she said to me (in a playful manner) "you can't go a day without contacting me, can you?" I said "Can too". Later, I thought about what she was really saying...she seems to see it as predictable and needy.
Maybe I was a little off base. She is being playful with this one and teasing me, but I am still not sure how to read her!
Today, I (unfortunately) HAD to email her because it was concerning something I needed her input on.
Here is the exchange:
Me: Have an appointment to go down and do the contract today after work, before dinner. Feedback?
W: Hi MM,
It was so nice to get my daily e-mail from you :-P.
Good work on the <deleted>. I will await your thoughts!
Me: Well since this is happening today, it’s only fair that you are looped in. :-P
W: teehee, couldn't resist!
Me: Just for that, no emails tomorrow. You might get a phone call in the evening if you behave.
Now quit emailing me, I’m busy ;-)I deflected her teasing with some humor of my own, which hopefully comes across as confidence. Her comments indicate that this isn't a huge deal, but it is something I need to park in the back corner of my mind.
Hi
The exchange seems fun and harmless but what would happen if you pulled back a little?
Jen
I will find out tomorrow...I really will not email her tomorrow. I do need to call her in the evening to set up how we are meeting to go to yoga class together on Saturday morning (this was her 'reaching out' idea). Do we meet at our apartment? At the yoga studio? What time? But it will be a 5 min phone call.
I am going to a rock concert, at a casino, on Friday night,
all by myself. She is still getting her head around that one...definitely not something I would ever do!! Plus, I did not invite her. All part of GAL for me. But it's still nice to see her surprised.
Good job who are you going to see?
This thread has reached 100 replies, and I know it will be locked up soon, so I will start another thread in the next day or so.
Stay tuned!