I am currently separted since Christmas Day. Three months prior to that my wife who is a attourney returned after a 3 weeks business trip and informed me that she did not love me anymore and did not miss me while she was away. We went day to up till Christmas when I left the house angry when she continued to distance herself from me for the three month period. In the beginning I would cry and try to talk to her about the separation and wanted her to go to couseling. The only answers I would get is that she did not know at this time. She has told me that I am too needy and insecure and that she was tired of coming home to stress and is now happier than she has been in a long time now that I am out of the house. I have been going to counseling for about 6 weeks and she still has not mentioned or talked to me about our marriage. I have given her space but it has been extremely difficult. I still take care of the kids everyday afterschool till she gets home and then I leave to be alone in my apartment. She is even taking the kids to Coasta Rica along with her mother and sister without me this spring break. I have stopped persuing her and calling her. She has not reponded to anything that I have tried. If anyone has any ideas please respond. I am scared to bring up talking about us at all for fear of pushing her. I also fear by not confronting this it may be easier for her to move on. I am desparate to save my marriage and keep my family together but even after reading Divorce Remedy...I am afraid that she has already made up her mind but she does not talk to me about us only kids and schedules. She has not mentioned Divorce but in the beginning she only would say if you push me for an answer right now you would not like my answer. It hurts me when I am around her and she appears to act like everything is happy and ok....
Help,
zuma
Wow...bad sitch!!!!
Be back in a little bit....hang in there........
You said that she claims your are needy and insecure. Remember you can't control her and nothing you say will change her mind she will only respond to your actions. Respond to her complaints by GAL, Act as if, always be cheery and have a good attitude, give her space, and detach. If you can talk to a coach. She wants a strong and independant man. Work on becoming that man not just for your wife, but more importantly for yourself.
There is a lot of support here. Also see do's and don'ts. DBing requires a lot of patience. She will begin to see the changes in you and you will receive more than you expect out of DBing. Write as much as you need to. Best of luck!!!
hi zuma, i am a WAW too and, like your W, i had my mind all made up and was convinced that i needed to be 'free'. H was also afraid to bring the subject out into the open, even after i had told him (in Oct06) that i didn't love him anymore. He also gave me lots of space, took care of the kids, helped in the house etc. and was devastated when i said i wanted to leave (and announced a PA as well) in Jan08.
Now H has a PA too and i'm the one who is devastated - i refused counseling initially and now i would like it and H refuses... i don't know why neither him nor me was able to have a 'real' conversation about our R when i said i didn't love him in autumn06.
It could be that your W is in MLC too - i know that i am... not sure i'm much help to you except to say that things can be in a total state of flux and evolve, so hang in there!
Thanks for the support. I am trying the 180. Whole family went to the Rodeo all day Saturday and celebrated daughters birthday at the house Sunday. Family had a good time but she only did small talk with me weather etc. Nothing really warm. This morning she did hug me by before leaving for work while I took off and cared for the kids due to spring break. She came home early and is leaving for a vacation tomorrow for the rest of the week with the kids, her mom and sister. I feel left out and hurt because I have been begging her to get away with me for 3 months prior to our separation. She did hug me before I left the house and gave me their itinerary for their trip. I do not know what to expect when they return from this trip. I hope she does some sole searching but it kills me that she is just taking off and having fun with my family without me. I feel betrayed after I have always been there for her and never taken a trip with the girls that did not include her. Thanks for all the support and replys. I am not very good at this 180 thing. I do not know if I should try to talk to her again or really try and move on in hopes that she will take a step forward to save her marriage. I have learned a lot in the last few months and want to share these things with her so we can get on the same page and work together.
Zuma
zuma, Take heart - please don't be afraid she's made up her mind. I read somewhere that no one is ever 100% sure of their decision to end a M. There is a chance she will change her mind. As you've posted, she no longer brings up divorce PLUS she gave you a hug!!! If she really didn't want to have anything to do with you, she wouldn't want to give you a hug either. If it was me, I wouldn't. I used to be a Walk-away Spouse (in my 1st M). This is my 2nd.
Take note of her complaints of you and work hard on those - to prove to her your changes. And be sure those changes are permanent. She'll know whether they are or not. E.g. get a life doing fun things with other men, or just doing things by yourself. Show you are not needy, etc., by action, without announcing to her what you are doing. Actions speak louder than words. Spelling it out to her might even have a negative impact.
Thanks for the advice. I have been told that by many but it is still hard for me to do.. I will force myself to get involved in other activities by myself.
appreciate the support.
Thanks
Don't lose the message in PH's post though, ACTIONS speak louder than words and spelling it out to her may have a negative impact.
I know you are excited to tell her about how much you've learned... but DON'T. She is not ready to hear it yet and you will lose ground.
Tell us some of the things you've always wanted to do but have put on the back burner.
They left for Vacation without me today and the girls called from the airport to tell me they loved me and will miss me. Then the wife got on the phone and just talk to later and hung up.....I am taking care of the pets while they are gone and went to the house. She left note saying their was a whole pizza left over from the night before in the frig.....???wierd. If I had made up my mind to divorce I would not leave a note like that. She also called frustrated before she left because she could not do our two acre lawn because the riding lawn mower would not star. She stated in a frustrated voice that when I get time I need to get all the lawn equipment working....She kicks me out of my home and then has the nerve to call me for that when she never calls me unless its about the kids....I am getting tired.......Anyway I appreciate all the reponses. When she gets back I am going on a trip for 4 days myself...After that I am going to tell her she has to make arranagements on Tues and Thursdays and I will take up Guitar lessons, bowling or golf........and see what happens with that. My counselor has suggested I do this...It will be hard to do because I really love my kids and will miss being there for them everyday...but I dont see any other way of getting her to feel the real world of being without me and being a single mom.
Thanks,
zuma
zuma,
She stated in a frustrated voice that when I get time I need to get all the lawn equipment working....She kicks me out of my home and then has the nerve to call me for that when she never calls me unless its about the kids
I understand your frustration. What would you think of using this to the advantage of your M - by doing a really good job of mowing the lawn and surprise her??? Would she be taken aback and be impressed by your sincere effort and your cheerfulness in doing it? Doing it quietly? Would this be a good 180 for you?
Doing the lawn would not be a 180 for me...The normal behavior would be to do the lawn and expect kudos for doing it....I've always did the lawn, cooking, pool and erverything else around the house to support her demanding job...she does laundry and the bills....
So a 180 would be not doing it.
Zuma
Have you checked into the guitar lessons, golf, and bowling yet? Those sound like great ways to meet people and get your mind off what your W is thinking.
If your C is suggesting ways to show your wife how it'll be IF she is a single mom, responsible for the house (lawn and pool!) and kids, then maybe she needs to find a solution for the broken lawn care equipment on her own?
If it'd be a 180 NOT to do it for her, maybe that is an option you could think about. She may get mad, but she may respect you for standing up for yourself when you tell her that feeding the pets was really all you had time for with all the plans you made while the kids were gone.
How do you think she'd react?
zuma,
The normal behavior would be to do the lawn and expect kudos for doing it
But what if you don't expect kudos for it this time, if you so choose to do the lawn after all. "Not expecting kudos" would be a 180, right?
Or maybe not doing the lawn at all would be a solution. Think about what would bring you closer to your goal.... What is your goal (a short-term realistic goal)?
-PH
Thanks for the responses. If I do the lawn she will appreciate it and probably only say Thank You in a way it would sound like you were talking to a friend. "Thanks Zuma" instead of "Thanks Sweety". If I do not do it then she will come back from her trip and it will add to the many tasks she now has to do because I am not in the house and just maybe she will appreciate and miss me a little more. If I only fix the lawn equipment then she will cut the grass herself and probably Thank Me the same way and just feel more independent. If I dont do either she will have to solve this own her own but it will be frustrating for her....Maybe I will just fix the lawn tractor...that was she has to say thanks and she still has to mow the lawn and fix the weedeater and edger herself which she has not been able to do herself up to this point.....Help I need advice...This sounds so trivial...I hate playing this game. I just want my life back were I would just take care of it and we could stop these games.......Please Respond,
Zuma
I decided to just fix the lawn equipment which I did this afternoon. She will be back on Sunday or Monday. Today is my oldest daughters birthday and my wife called from her vacation and quickly stated that I thought you would want to talk to "" since it is her birthday. My wife without stating anything else handed the phone over to my daughter and she misses me. Wife never got back on the phone or stated anything else...It's like she is a total stranger now....
zuma
Hi Zuma,
You sound almost like a carbon copy of me. Honestly I would not try any reverse psychology or try to "show" her what it would be like without you... My guess is she would not look at it that way, she would probably use it as yet another reason to back up her ill feelings for you.
If it were me, I would think of the kids and say, well at least they will have a nice clean back yard to play in and leave it at that. Do a good job, leave everything ready and cleaned up for the homecoming. As for being alone while she is gone and feeling betrayed, tossed aside, feeling like a piece of crap on the bottom of her shoe probably has better standing that you do right now kind a thing.... i feel you.
How old is your wife? Is she maybe having a MLC? My situation is similar... I think there are a lot of men out there, good men, who want their kids, their families in tact, their marriages safe and secure... I just wonder if that is reality anymore in our society. As desperately as you or I want these things, when a wife takes this position, you can control none of her behavior and in the end are only responsible for your own personal behavior, that is all you can have command of. You wife will make the decisions she makes and sadly, men like us suffer as we wait for the "decisions" being made it feels I think...
I am pondering why so many women and men don't seem to "get" it and take the cowards way out. Personally I think your ability to stay the course, stay strong and reach out to try to save your family is a very courageous and noble thing. Stay strong and plan on this taking a very, very long time... I am now waiting almost a year for some peace.... not yet for me either sadly...
but some faint signs that I try to hold my strength on...
Take care, spend a lot of time with the kids and just play with them and enjoy "living for the moment" with them.. they need you too... Sorry, I am sad that you have this going on, I bet it feels really unfair.
But I must say, how mean is it of your "wife" to take the kids away on their birthday from you... That's is cruel. She must be very disconnected, but I guarantee you at the end of our lives, she will know what she did was wrong and not okay...
I'd love to hear Michelle's take on why men like us who are just trying to do good work, don't cheat, honest, and I think, good guys, get shafted by the ideal that a "wife" is always entitled to this idea, if my life is wonderful and happy and exciting I have a right to find it and leave my "husband" since it is all his fault... sounds like your wife blames you too and points the finger in only one direction and is unable to see her contribution to the problems... it is a cowardly way to behave and you lose a lot of respect for a person behaving this way. Her actions will never solve her problems.
I care about you and am sorry for your pain. I don't think any good, nice man out there deserves or should be burdoned and tortured by pains of the heart to these extremes...
Help?
zuma, My personal opinion is that if you didn't do the lawn, your W might think you're being mean. If it was me, I would do a really good job of it and not say a word or make it a deal at all. Just act as if it was nothing and not mention a word to her about it. Do it and then forget you even did it. Do it for your kids, not for her. Do it for you because it feels good to do acts of kindeness.
It must hurt that you were not able to celebrate your daughter's BD with her. Even though it's not ideal, maybe be grateful that she at least called to let you talk to your daughter. I have found gratitude to be a powerful way of attracting more good to me. Law of Attraction.
-PH
Well, I still think she's walking all over you and you need to do something different. I think you should go with the 180 and take care of you.
Especially after reading your thoughts on her reaction. No we should not "assume" (But you know what results your efforts have given you in the past) we should not have expectations (you don't) and this is not "reverse psychology". It is doing something different because what you're doing hasn't been giving you any results and since she is in a power career and you take care of so much around the home, I feel getting her "mad" wouldn't be such a horrible thing.
You take care of your kids every day. You do everything for them. A little long grass won't hurt them and you deserve more respect than your wife is giving you.
Thanks for all the support. I think a 180 is the best in this situation. I have done everything she has asked since the separation and seen no change. Just "Thanks Zuma" as if we are friends and not husband and wife anymore. I fixed the equipment because she seemed so frustrated about it and she still will have to acknowledge my effort...but mowing the lawn would be viewed by her as doing to try and ease my back into the house. Tomorrow is Easter and I have to go to church without the kids because they will not be back till late or even Monday...I teach my 10 year olds Sunday School class and I will be teaching the class to her friends and she will not even be there....Great. I am determine to move on from this point and be positive...I will be leaving on my own trip on this Thursday through Sunday to Atlantic City so I will only have contact with the wife for three days when I take care of the kids after school. My girls are so beautiful and we are so blessed as a family...I can't believe she will actually throw everything away. I believe this is a mid-life thing with her but she is blind and can't see it. I've been a great husband to her and have also been there for her..........Your responses have been great please keep them coming. They keep me going and it's nice to have a sounding board from the outside world. It keeps me going.
Thanks,
Zuma
Hey Zuma,
Sorry I jumped in like I did... I just feel bad for you too. Your girls sound wonderful and it is a battle trying to understand why a woman throws a family away.... No doubt we all bring bad things to the table and our own set of challenges to any relationship, but once married the commitment is what is the binding thread.... I just wonder myself if people these days understand just how deep that needs to go... Try not to think so much about her and try not to blame or look at what she is doing, etc. Look only into yourself and find what strength you can muster and worry about what you can do... you cannot control anything other than yourself and how you react or respond to the situations placed before you... Yes the hard part is that the pain you face is very real and you feel very powerless I am guessing... I am in the same boat.
MLC is a mystery to me, because you can believe it is a MLC, but if your "wife" doesn't believe it or see it or want to see it and is convinced she is done with you, then you have little power to convince her....
I myself am right now battling with do I let my wife go and see if she comes around or do I keep trying so hard to keep it all together... So much stress is put on a man in this situation. It can feel very unfair.
I wish the best for you. I myself have begun to resolve that there is nothing for me to do other than let go and hope she may come around, though for me, that hope fades every day.
Well, sorry for barging in, but again, best of luck to you... Let's hope we make it through this... Seems to me to be one of the most painful experiences in life... just when you think you have attained what you always wanted, the rug gets pulled out from beneath you and you land smack on your nose...
Take care and Happy Easter. Good for you that you can keep strong and go, despite your girls not being there... I've been there... and about to go there again... it is not easy.
Hey Zuma,
Sorry I jumped in like I did... I just feel bad for you too. Your girls sound wonderful and it is a battle trying to understand why a woman throws a family away.... No doubt we all bring bad things to the table and our own set of challenges to any relationship, but once married the commitment is what is the binding thread.... I just wonder myself if people these days understand just how deep that needs to go... Try not to think so much about her and try not to blame or look at what she is doing, etc. Look only into yourself and find what strength you can muster and worry about what you can do... you cannot control anything other than yourself and how you react or respond to the situations placed before you... Yes the hard part is that the pain you face is very real and you feel very powerless I am guessing... I am in the same boat.
MLC is a mystery to me, because you can believe it is a MLC, but if your "wife" doesn't believe it or see it or want to see it and is convinced she is done with you, then you have little power to convince her....
I myself am right now battling with do I let my wife go and see if she comes around or do I keep trying so hard to keep it all together... So much stress is put on a man in this situation. It can feel very unfair.
I wish the best for you. I myself have begun to resolve that there is nothing for me to do other than let go and hope she may come around, though for me, that hope fades every day.
Well, sorry for barging in, but again, best of luck to you... Let's hope we make it through this... Seems to me to be one of the most painful experiences in life... just when you think you have attained what you always wanted, the rug gets pulled out from beneath you and you land smack on your nose...
Take care and Happy Easter. Good for you that you can keep strong and go, despite your girls not being there... I've been there... and about to go there again... it is not easy.
Well they came back and the girls did miss me but she did not have much to say. She called me when they came in and asked if i was coming by to see them. I told her I could not be there untill 8pm and that they would be tired and ready for bed and I would see them tomorrow after school..She then called about 15 minutes later and stated that it was important that I should be there and to come at 8pm...I went and put the girls to bed after spending time with them and hearing about their exciting trip. When I was leaving the wife told me that after the first phone call my oldest was upset that I was not coming over and she thank me for coming over....dont know how to read this as a positive or if she just did it because my oldest was upset...Then today I was at the house with kids after school and when the wife got home she did not say much. wife then called me about 15 minutes after leaving and asked if i wanted her to purchase me a ticket to the baseball game in May because my middle daughter is performing the national anthem at the game with her school choir.....Is this a positive also or is just her attempt to make sure I am involved with the kids. She has not brought up the subject of us or talked about our situation in months....I wont bring it up because I think it would be considered pursuing and pushing her...I have been giving her space for 3 months now and she only discusses the kids and scheduled activities.......Its killing me not talking about this.......She acts like everything is just rolling along normally in the brief moments I am around her...but I want to know if she still has not decided on divorce or if she is just buying time till she has her ducks in a row and then she will frop the Divorce bomb on me......She is an attourney and very familiar with family and divorce law and has done divorce cases........Afraid and confused....any insite on these questions would be appreciated...I will be out of town for the next four days on my on little trip and when I get back I really want to have a sit down talk with her ...I dont know if I can hold out much longer...Been separated since christmas day...but the does the fact that she has invited me to see my daughter in May mean she does not intend on doing anything up untill then....I mean I would not invite my husband to this event if I was planning on telling him I am divorcing him in the mean time.....but I am a man and think logically....
help,
zuma
zuma, 3 months is not a long time at all, compared to most people here. I do understand that it feels like eternity because I expected my own S to be over in 1 month.
It sounds, to me, that your W realizes how important you are to your kids, and really want you involved in their lives, if even for their sake.
It's hard to say whether she's stalling for time or not. I tend to agree that if she doesn't care about the M, she probably wouldn't want you around in May for the baseball game.
If I were you, I would not initiate R talk with her. It might set you back more. It would be pursuing and pushing her... If she hints about R talk, then that's a different story.
-PH
plentyhope,
Thanks for you support. I think you may be right..I will keep you posted...heading to Atlantic City tomorrow and will be back next week...See if she misses me any...doubt it she has not missed me yet...Or she puts up a good act....I feel better tonight because I spent the evening with the kids...they told me how much they missed me while they were on their trip ...the little one even cried for her Dad near the end of the trip...I love them and do not want to be a part time Dad....
Thanks,
zuma
Well I came back from my trip and she served me with divorce papers.....I guess this game is over. I feel hopeless that she will change her mind and after crying over her for the past 3 days am tired. I now have given up and am preparing myself for the fight ahead and difficult transition. But somewhere in the back of my mind I know this is the wrong choice for my family and marriage. Nothing seemed to work in geeting her back on board.
zuma
zuma, So sorry to hear about the D papers. The game is not necessarily over. I have seen people change their minds about a D, even at the last minute. I hope you find the strength you need for the D procedure and that you are still able to prove her wrong in her decision by the changes you have made in yourself. Her seeing your continued and lasting changes can cause her to wonder about her decision.
-PH
Hey guys...
I just posted a motivational/success story..but I posted it in the wrong forum. I meant to post it here! I posted it in the thinking about leaving forum. Zuma....all hope should not be lost!!! I served my h divorce papers in Aug 07 and hopefully by Aug 08 we'll have a marriage better than the one we had before. NEVER STOP HOPING AND NEVER BELIEVE THAT IT'S TOO LATE!
saus,
so great to hear from you! i read your update and just wanted to say that I am very happy for you that your situation has made a turn for the better. thanks for sharing and best of luck to you and your H.
keep us all posted from time to time.
Zuma.
Christmas day? OUCH. Any day is bad but Christmas day JEEZE! You are amazing to keep so positive.
I think you need to detach, for your own sanity more than anything else.
It is early days for her, she is no doubt still angry and wanting to vent that by showing you just how much she hurts.
My own H is only just losing the anger after 8 months. You have a way to go yet.
Do what you have to do to make yourself feel good. Treat yourself do whatever you need to do to remind yourself that you are a good person and worthy of more than this treatment.
NC
Thanks for the support. I spent the weakend with family trying to prepare myself emotionally for this. I was away from the kids all weakend and truly missed them. I just called them and I could tell that they missed me. The Wife just acted like nothing has changed. I don't think she is going to change her mind. She seems very content. Like this is not even bothering her. She is a lawyer and she seems to be playing the part. I have given up hope but if any one has any suggestions on last resort techniques I could really use them....What has worked for others in this situation.
zuma
Zuma, Do you know if there is your W is seeing someone? Is it possible she filed because she has someone in mind now or in the future?
She seems very content. Like this is not even bothering her. She is a lawyer and she seems to be playing the part.
She has to act like she's doing the right thing, to convince herself and others that she is doing the right thing. Don't be fooled by it. Try to avoid making any decisions while you're emotional about the situation. What constructive 180s can you implement now?
-PH
No I am pretty sure that there is no one else involved. Right now I am acting positive around her and like I am moving on. She told the kids last night and my oldest one was really upset. I had asked my w to call me later after she had told them and when she did I asked how the girls took it and she stated that she had just got my oldest one calmed down. When asked to speak to the oldest the W stated that she did not want to get my oldest upset all over again and stated that my oldest was mad at her and not me. I told her to make sure and tell my oldest that I love her and give her a kiss for me as I was crying over the phone. My W responded that I know you love her HONEY!...She called me honey she slipped...she has called me that in 4 months since we separated....Anyway I picked up the kids after school today and my oldest and I had a little cry together and my oldest told me that the W told them during the talk that she still loved their Dad.......What's with that!! Anyway I don't put much stock in it. She was supposed to be home early to take the kids to a baseball game opening day and called to tell me she would be late because she was stuck in a meeting ....she got home 2 hours late.....Makes me wonder... I am still being the good father and being at the house everyday for the kids after school...Another 180 I am doing is when she gets home I just kiss the kids goodbye and walk out the door without hanging around trying to talk or anything to her. But she has filed for divorce and I have very very little hope that she will change her mind.......
I love her but I really think she has lost her mind and is in the worst middle age chrisis or WAW mind set. My main focus right now is healing myself and being there for the kids as much as possible even though I feel like she is using me. It is more important for me to be a father than to worry about her using me.
zuma
Hi zuma,
She called me honey she slipped...she has called me that in 4 months since we separated....Anyway I picked up the kids after school today and my oldest and I had a little cry together and my oldest told me that the W told them during the talk that she still loved their Dad.......What's with that!! Anyway I don't put much stock in it.
Even though it's hard to know what she really means by that slip of tongue, it sounds like it wasn't really a slip-up after all, from what she told your daughter. Maybe you should take it as a baby step from her, a gem and be happy about it. Keep up the 180s and the other DBing strategies. If it took this long for the M to break down, it might take a while for things to improve too.
It is more important for me to be a father than to worry about her using me.
It's really loving and compassionate of you to be more concerned about being a father to the kids.
Went to get leagal advice today...and the Divorce process begins....I hate this...I am strong one moment and then the thought of my family breaking up ...kills me...I also will be moving into a larger apartment to fix up a place for my girls so they can start staying overnite with me....The three of them and me in a 2 bedroom apartment while the wife lives in a 4100 sq ft 5 bedroom house on 2 acres not to mention the 70,000 pool....hardly seems fair after I supported her through law school......Get over it..............venting.
zuma
zuma, Yeah, sounds unfair. I am sure your lawyer will help you figure this out. I hope you are able to get a good lawyer. It's wonderful you have 3 daughters to share your life with. It's understandable that you would feel so hurt from the family breakup. In the meantime, try to read up as much as you can on how heal yourself and at the same time learn how to relate amicably with your W. Regardless of what happens, you will have to communicate with her the rest of your life, because of your kids.
Hi Saus16. Sorry to jump in, but I read what you posted and I hope you may be able to give me some insight. If you wanted to D. your H. what made you change your mind? If you look at my posts called "wife complains I defend myself", can you see any rays of hope left. I really do want my M. and the only thing that seems to hinder it is her analysis that my anxiety and/or depression (both her diagnosis) is the problem in our M. I am trying to hang in there in my own M. but I am losing hope.
Me: 39
"W": 40
D:3
D:16, had sole cust. but now is living with my ExW:40
D:20
M:4 rocky yrs. My second, her third M.
Hi Zuma. Wow, it sucks. I am going through very similar things right now. It was helpful to read some of your posts to know I am not going through these feelings alone. I have prayed for your situation to get better and turn around. So many around me are going through this, it feels like an epidemic. Sorry for your pain. I can't say it gets better, mine seems daily. Stubborn women who want to be independent and not a wife. Is your "wife" a feminist out of curiosity if I may ask?