I didn't even know my last thread was locked.
H is deer hunting. He's down at our place alone though, so he's lonely (no TV) and keeps calling. It's kind of odd...normally he can go for 3 or 4 days and not call one time if he has friends around.
Last weekend was different though, he made a point to call a couple of times and tell us he missed us. I think he did miss us. It's surprising.
I want to explain myself again about why specifically I was thinking about postponing S12's counseling appt...I am thinking we would have better success if we waited just a bit longer, for one thing, my son's last game is tomorrow and we are finally done with all that stress, and H really needs to get well, and the holidays are of course coming...my gut feeling is that throwing that in just this moment will be counter-productive at this point.
I need more time to work on my Al Anon program as well. I am going to call a couple of people from my group and discuss it with them. They really put a lot of stock on getting stable yourself before you try to do too much about your situation. Gotta put on my oxygen mask first, as the saying goes.
So I am not postponing for my son in some procrastinating, chickening out way...I want to do it the best way possible...and emotional abusers can become worse with counseling. I need to tread very carefully.
Hi breakaway,
This post may be a bit dangerous. Hope I don't upset you. But I wanted to add something to your recent story about S12.
I don't agree with the way your husband treats him in any way. And I totally believe that these comments make your son feel bad.
But... We've talked alot with our C about our S14. C notes how male kids of that age will, by their nature, try to maximize their situation. So, for example, our son will often approach one of us and tell us that the other parent was mean to them. He's learned that when he does that, the parent tends to shower him with extra love and attention.
So I'm <not> trying to say that your son is making this stuff up! I'm just saying that things like writing the note and presenting it to you may be a small attempt on his part to gain more affection from you. Just something to keep in mind.
I also think delaying S12's counseling would be fine. We have talked with our C quite a bit about whether our S14 should get C. The C is rather ambivalent on the topic. He can see some benfits. But he also notes that having a kid go to counseling sends a message to them that something is wrong. And alot of times they end up thinking that something is wrong with them (because they are being sent to counselling).
In reality, it would be far better if H went to counselling to get help dealing with S12. But I know you know that.
Thanks for your input.
Well...S12 has been to counseling before, for anxiety problems (wonder where he gets that from??) once when he was 7 and once back in the spring, around the time his dad was diagnosed with cancer. In the spring he was having problems being in crowds, riding the metro link, heights..etc etc.
That's faded, but his pediatrician thinks all his headaches and stomachaches and sleeping problems, and even crying jags sometimes, are signs of depression/stress whatever.
So it's more than how H talks to him per se. I get to witness that for myself.
I will think about what you said though...maybe he's playing me somewhat...but when his dad is on him all the time, maybe he needs some extra attention anyway.
Also, back just before we had to stop with the counseling, the doc wanted to have a sitdown with H and me, and he was really angry about it, before anyone even said anything! He said we were paying her to fix HIM. And she had said the conversations about sports were to stop, that S12 had a coach and to limit our conversations to positive comments only. Well, he wasn't having any of that either...he was very angry about that as well. It's his JOB to critique S12 (he LOVES to say he's trying to HELP you when he's running you down. Funny how he doesn't need any "help") I am switching to a male counselor, because we had already reached the point where anything he didn't like that she said was because she was a "liberal woman." Bad enough that she was a woman! I think he'd let Sarah Palin counsel us...but that's about it.
H has some interesting ideas about women.
He'll say things about how stupid women are, and they shouldn't be allowed to vote (half kiddingly), and then he'll say, well I'm not talking about YOU.
Man it must be hard mothering sons particularly when they are having a rough time. How much should/do we protect them?
I've only got one daughter and she's only 7 and the way things are going, that's all I'll ever have.
I think you're doing the right thing in thinking about this carefully.
how long is the offseason for your boy?
P
Today is the LAST game!! Hallelujah!
We don't do winter sports, thank goodness...most of his friends have already started basketball. If we did that I would be a basketCASE. LOL.
We spend most winter weekends at our place in the country...riding dirt bikes, etc. Then baseball starts...this next year is hopefully going to be different. I could write a novel about the whole psychotic baseball culture in this town. I love sports and think they're great for kids...but the potential for problems is great. Anyway that's another story.
H is driving back in from his hunting trip to come to the game and then going back down...taking S9 with him. So S12 and I get to chill tonight. He seemed happy about no little brother on the horizon for tonight. Maybe we'll go to the movies or something.
I feel mentally pretty good today. I vented a LOT of stuff with a couple of friends last night, and today I woke up feeling much less burdened. I feel like "taking life on" again.
So...interesting time at the Big Game. S12 didn't win but it was a hell of a game and they still got 4th place trophy for being in the finals...and this his team's first year in the league. They rock!!!
So, inlaws come to the game, because it's the last game (they didn't come to the other 18 games, of which they only lost 2). We were in different parts of the stands, because I was a little late, and I was having a blast with my team parent friends. Finally hook up with the whole family at halftime.
I say next to FIL whilst he gave a running commentary of what everyone was doing wrong. Well....we were losing to a better team. They were better. It happens. Every single word out of his mouth was to criticize a player and what they "needed to be taught" as if he has a f#@*ing clue about a single kid on that team, or the coach, or hey...football!!!
He kept dogging this one kid, who was probably our season MVP...and I looked at him and said...you know what, that kid is the REASON we are AT this game! I said it sweetly...anyway...he kept going on about #X...I got up and walked away. They got away on us and scored and I could hear both inlaws going Geesh...like totally rudely. I just kept away from them. They are like the plague of doom.
Anyway. The point of this story is just that they are SO negative even when they don't know WTF they are talking about. And furthermore...does everything need to be SAID??? Who the hell do they think they ARE in the first place? And yet that's how they treat everyone else...like, who do you think you are? You're nobody.
Oh well. I've vented. I had a great day really, all except for the half hour of my life I had to sit near them, thinking about the poison they spread thru the family. All while being "supportive" and coming to the big game! Yay!
Can't wait for Thanksgiving!! Four whole days together.
I had a great day really, all except for the half hour of my life I had to sit near them, thinking about the poison they spread thru the family. All while being "supportive" and coming to the big game!
Imagine being their child.
Okay, so I guess I'll just say it.
I'm married to an alcoholic.
....oh good..the earth didn't just split when I said that.
I've always thought I was was married to a good guy, who is sometimes abusive, and also drinks too much. Then over time I thought I was married to an abusive guy, who is sometimes nice, and also drinks too much.
But really...I'm married to an alcoholic. I have an alcoholic marriage. Which sucks, really. But at least I think I know what the actual problem is now.
there's a book sold by Al-Anon about the alcoholic marriage. Do you have it?
I'll try to pick it up Tuesday at my meeting.
To be clear to people reading the thread, my H is not mean to me when he's had too much to drink, instead then he's really lovey dovey (ick)...but it's the rest of the time that he's so difficult. I am learning this is not uncommon. Most of the time, if he isn't at work, he is drinking. He doesn't get really drunk and make scenes, but he does drink pretty steadily.
When it's bad he keeps an iced down cooler of beer in his car at all times. But it's not always like that. He manages, just like everything else, to keep it a level that's just under the radar of fullblown craziness...when it starts getting OTT I say something and he cuts back.
Basically, they told him not to drink when he started radiation, but he didn't stop. He stopped for a few weeks when the treatment was really bad, and that's the nicest I ever remember him being. That's when I thought...hmmmmm...is that why????
Anyway, he's really not supposed to drink anymore because of the cancer. Yeah right.
Like I was saying, I just thought this was ONE of our problems, and certainly not the worst one, because frankly, he's easier to get along with when he's laying on the couch with a buzz and not bothering me. But it's the problem that drives the other problems. His parents are the dry drunks that have to control to feel safe, because they were raised by volatile drinkers.
There are a handful of hardcore alcoholics in the family...I think H thinks if you're not as bad as so-and-so then you're not an alcoholic.
I'm sorry, Breakaway. My mom was an alcoholic (she's been sober more than 25 years now), and so was my aunt (ditto), my grandmother and my grandfather.
I hope this gives you clarity.
Puppy
Thanks for the support.
I have mixed feelings. It's like...okay then...this is the key to the puzzle, and I have a place to go now to learn how to deal with it. And the other part is overwhelming because I don't know how much he is likely to change...the best intentions in the world don't really make any difference if he can't stop drinking.
BUT...one day at a time. I went to church today for maybe the third time in a year..and we sang On Christ The Solid Rock I Stand, all other ground is sinking sand....so I'll make it through, I'm standing on a rock.
"Higher Ways"
Steven Curtis Chapman
If I could only fly
I'd go up and look down from the sky
So I could see the bigger picture
And Lord if I could sit with You
At Your feet for an hour or two
I'm sure I'd ask too many questions
'Cause there's so much going on down here
That I must confess I just don't understand
BRIDGE
But I have prayed
And at your feet my whole life has been laid
So I wont worry I wont be afraid
'Cause my soul is resting on Your higher ways
Let the road ahead become unclear
I am Yours so what have I to fear
If my soul is resting on Your higher ways
CHORUS
Your higher ways teach me to trust You
Your higher ways are not like mine
Your higher ways are the ways of the Father
Hiding His children in His love
BRIDGE
So let it rain
And if my eyes grow dim with tears of pain
This hope I have will not be washed away
'Cause my soul is resting on Your higher ways
Maybe then You will take me aside
And show me the bigger picture
But until I'm with You
I'll be here with a heart that is true
And a soul that's resting on
Your higher ways
So here's some stuff from my Al Anon pamphlet on the MerryGoRound of Denial:
The third character is the key person in the play, the spouse. She is the Provoker. She is hurt and upset by repeated drinking episodes, but she holds the family together despite all the trouble caused by his drinking. In turn, she feeds back into the marriage her bitterness, resentment, fear, and hurt, and so becomes the source of provocation. She controls, she tries to force the changes she wants; OR she sacrifices, adjusts, never gives up, never gives in, but never forgets. The attitude of the alcoholic is that his failure should be acceptable, but she must never fail him! He acts with complete independence, and insists he will do as he pleases, and he expects her to do exactly what he tells her to do.
This character might also be the called the Adjuster; she is constantly adjusting to the crises and trouble caused by drinking. The alcoholic blames her for everything that goes wrong in the marriage; she tries everything possible to make her marriage work to prove him wrong......... She is so upset that she cannot talk to her husband without adding more guilt, bitterness, resentment, or hostility to the situation which is already almost unbearable. Yet the customs of our society train and condition the wife to play this role. If she does not, she finds herself going against what family and society regard as the wife's role. No matter what the alcoholic does, he ends up "at home." This is where everyone goes when there's no place to go.
Then some stuff about denial....
...the real problem is that alcoholic is well aware of the truth he so strongly denies, He is aware of his failure. His guilt and remorse have become unbearable; he cannot tolerate criticism or advice from others. Above all, the memory of his helplessness and failure is more than embarrassing; it is far too painful for a person who thinks and acts as if he were a little god in his own world.
the first person who joins the alcoholic on the Merry Go Round is the wife. If she absorbs injustices, suffers deprivation, endures repeated embarrassments, accepts broken promises, is outwitted or undermined in every effort to cope with the situation, and is beaten down by the constant expression of hostility directed toward her, her own reaction is hostility, bitterness, anxiety, and anger. Playing the role in this way makes the wife sick. She is a woman who becomes part of the illness by living with it. She is put in a role which forces her to become the Provoker. She is caught between alcoholism and the wall of ignorance, shame, and embarrassment inflicted upon her by society. This crushes her; she needs info and counseling.
Sounds like someone I know!
Part two:
Another reason why the wife needs help in the plan of recovery is that if she changes her role and begins to act in a new way she will discover she is standing alone. Others will treat her as an actor that is deserting a play when there is no substitute to take her part. This is especially true when the wife separates from her husband by choice or by necessity.
That paragraph made me think of Goldey...thinking of you Goldey, you aren't alone. And thankfully, I don't feel alone either now.
The Moral Issue
No one has the right to play God and demand the alcoholic stop drinking. The reverse is also true. The alcoholic can only continue to act like a little god, telling everyone what to do while doing as he pleases, if a supporting cast continues to play this role. The wife has every moral right and responsibility to refuse to act as if her husband were God Almighty whose every wish and commandment she must obey. As a rule, she cannot tell her husband anything for he refuses to hear it. Her only effective means of telling him what she means is to free herself from his attempt to control and dictate what she is to do. This independence may be exercised in silence, it need not be expressed in words.
Two things may interfere with success in a long-range program for the wife. First the husband's attitude toward the new role may range from disapproval to direct threats or violence Second, responsibilities in the home make it difficult to get away to meetings, etc. A wife cannot make such a change unless she believes it to be the right and moral choice, so she must understand the nature of alcoholism. She must also have the courage to stand against her husband's opposition to her own program of recovery. A wife cannot be expected to do what is beyond her emotional and financial capacity. However, by remaining in a program of her own, she may be able to solve problems which at first seemed too difficult.
Okay so that's all a bit dim and depressing, but at the same time it shows me that the control issues are wrapped up in the alcoholism. So I feel less crazy and more detached. And even more loving toward him. Not doormat loving but just a calmer sense that this is out of control behavior. So I need to get IN control of my own behavior.
So, that's a place to start. And the courage is going to come partly from here.
And a great place as well.
It has served me well; moreso in recent times than when I first put the W in rehab. I don't think I was as open to the program as I am now.
Bless his little heart, he sent me an email today, reminding me to do a couple of things...and I DO need reminders (polite reminders).
Anyway, he started each sentence with please, and finished with this...
I know you don’t like to get this stuff but both of them are important.
Love H.
PS…, I know you can do it I have great faith in you, you are the greatest super woman in the world!!!!(Is That Helping)
So I sent him a message back letting him know it was helping very much! :P
That's wonderful..
I think he is trying..
That's wonderful..
I think he is trying..
Yeah.
Something as simple as saying Please do XYZ is so much better than Make sure you do XYZ. He used to start all sentences with "make sure" and "you need to"
Also telling me I am superwoman now means I have to follow through on that! LOL. People live up to their expectations I guess, so he's stopped telling me I never do anything!
So I need to get going!! See you cats later!
[quote=breakaway See you cats later! [/quote]
Lest you have forgotten; I'm a DAWG!!!
Something as simple as saying Please do XYZ is so much better than Make sure you do XYZ. He used to start all sentences with "make sure" and "you need to"
And if you are anything like my wife, the "requests" were followed by "I KNOW, H!"
Stricken from my vocabulary, by my own choosing are all of the following phrases...
You have to...
You need to...
You should....
Did you remember to....?
Are you going to....?
Why haven't you...?
I find myself very often now just doing many of the things I depended on her for myself. The things that she used to be very lax and laid back about getting done, amazingly, still get done without me prodding, pushing and reminding....can you imagine that???
When there is a discussion about something, as hard as it is my sitch, I try to work in as many "we's" as possible....especially if it is in reference to things that have been let go, or overlooked for a while....trying to never imply that she was solely responsible for something either, or both of us could have taken care of.
(((((Thinking of you on Thanksgiving....)))))
Have a great one!
Hey, peeps, back from a long weekend, one that I was forced to go on with the inlaws. I noticed the "make sures" come from the top...
It was long and stressful for me, with some good times too. A weird twisted fight with H on Saturday, that left me turned inside out from our Alice In Wonderland discussion...that's "over with" now as I am to forget any crap he says or does the nanosecond he's finished. He was sweet on both ends of that though.
He did apologize several times for not listening to me and just letting me have a few days to myself for some downtime. Next time he'll "let me." I guess that'll be a year from now or something.
I'm just glad to be home.
When there is a discussion about something, as hard as it is my sitch, I try to work in as many "we's" as possible....especially if it is in reference to things that have been let go, or overlooked for a while....trying to never imply that she was solely responsible for something either, or both of us could have taken care of.
"We" sounds nice. I see my H trying that more..though sometimes it's still just him saying whatever it is he's going to do and just saying "we" instead of "I." But it's a step in the right direction as he is beginning to consider that we ARE a we!!! LOL. And he's seeing a lot of things as being both of our responsibilities and not just mine, especially if it's something that was his idea in the first place.
Sounds like he's slowly coming around...
hey girl, yesterday I was so thinking of you, I was blaring me some kelly clarkson, the breakaway cd, soon as i heard the song, i was so filled with you on my mind.
hang in there, lots of hugs and prayers from me!!
hey girl, yesterday I was so thinking of you, I was blaring me some kelly clarkson, the breakaway cd, soon as i heard the song, i was so filled with you on my mind.
hang in there, lots of hugs and prayers from me!!
Awww...that was nice..that is one of "my songs."
and you're nice not to rub in the Kansas win...
LOL morning friend!! I was sure thinking of ya on that too, it was a close game tho, a good battle! sigh, you just be lucky they let OU go and not the horns lol!!
how are you today?
Sounds like he's slowly coming around...
I don't know how I feel exactly...It's still Jekyll/Hyde...but Jekyll gets nicer and nicer. Jekyll's really trying. Which is great, I mean a year ago Jekyll was a jerk too!! LOL. But what about Hyde?
We aren't allowed to discuss him.
Weekend Journal:
Friday: I told him I wanted to stay home. He wouldn't agree, because we don't get many three day weekends, and it was Thanksgiving weekend, so this wasn't the time. "My" time comes when there is nothing else happening...which is NEVER. We've been over this before. So anyway, in order to do what I wanted I would have had to force the issue and it would have caused a big fight. So I went. But as I am "emerging" as a person, "going along to get along" is causing me a lot more internal strife. I was extremely unhappy and trapped feeling. And just holiday blues. I hid out in the loft as much as possible, which is unlike me. Anyway, I finally asked him to come up and hold me for a while, that I was feeling sad and missing my mom, etc. And he was like Why?? What's your problem?? And I'm like for God's sake, I just need some love...and he's acting like I'm friggin radioactive...he finally sits by me and sort of lukewarm puts an arm around me. He can't give me any affection if I ASK for it. I got very upset at that point...I was like just forget it. So he says no, honey, I'll hold you all night long, you know that, just not right now.
So he runs off somewhere...I just sat there and thought about dying...not an option though. So...I wrote for a while...then I played Uno with everybody for a while, and when it was time for bed, H was really sweet and loving and the next day too...it was all sunshine and rainbows for a few hours...then we went to this little town to watch college football.
PART TWO...we have a couple beers watching the game. The game was going BADLY..ugh, it was ugly. And there are plenty of people there, it's a lively crowd. We play a bunch of songs on the jukebox at half time...sing along to Folsom Prison Blues, LOL, it's all going great. Then, I am bitching about the defense (I am not alone in this) and suddenly he just wigs out...I can't convey how hostile he is behaving in these exchanges, it doesn't seem like much in print...but it's just a switch flipping to a very angry guy. OUT OF NOWHERE.
H: Stop being negative. I can't take your negativity!
ME: ??? They are running the same damn play every time!!
H: You need to knock it off. Just enjoy the game.
ME: Umm...they're getting killed...what is your problem all of a sudden?
H: I'm just worried. I'm worried about how you're acting. I want a guarantee! I want a guarantee you're not going to start a fight. That you're not going to do what you did last night.
ME:
What??
H: OH! NOW she's MAD.
ME: YOU are starting the fight...you're starting one right now. I'm just sitting here!!!
H rants and raves for a while about how I am, and at this point I am shrinking in my chair a bit and not looking at him..and he really gets mad and says "Don't act like I'm beating you down!!"
ME: You ARE. I didn't do anything. I'm watching a football game!
H: But you're gonna do what you did.
ME: WHAT did I do that was so terrible? What was so terrible?? I was sad and asked you to hold me...???? Now you're just running me down.
H:
OMG.... You're right. You're right. I'm sorry. Sorry, okay! Let's just forget about it. Just have fun.
Kiss kiss. Flip the switch...let me just attack you out of nowhere and then say, oops forget it honey. Not another word. So I just kind of sat there, while he acted like all was well. Then we left and he stopped and got a 40 oz to drink on the drive back....wow that was fun.
Then he was all sunshine and sweetness again for the rest of the time. We did have some actual connection where he could admit that his parents are just pressure to be around. We tried to have that discussion on Friday and he just got all a mess and said I can't stand his parents. Which isn't true. He is so black and white about everything.
Anyway, obviously alcohol is a problem. I guess our lives are going to have to change a hell of a lot more if he's going to start acting sane. One day at a time. Al Anon is tomorrow. I guess I am going to have to abstain completely. I realize sometimes I drink myself just to tolerate the tension of being around him sometimes...and it's always there. The alcohol I mean.
Anyway, he was so good about so much...but he can't deal with any of my emotional needs...and he still gets angry on a dime and then back again. It's hard to detach from that.
However. Today is a new day, new month, etc.
I almost forgot...he also told me this morning, before I even got out of bed, that he really wants to get off the Paxil now.
So I don't know what to do about that either.
On the bright side we were just talking on the phone and he was talking about how his dad came in to work today and just has it in for the world, so he's going to just have to let it stop bothering him, it's his dad's problem. (I think he called me from the bathroom, LOL)
And we were laughing going Serenity Now! Serenity Now!
So that's awesome if it can be us against them, instead of me against all of them...not that I want to be "against" anyone, but I feel like he'd gone over to the dark side with them and I was the odd one out. So that made me really happy that he'd share that with me and we could even kind of laugh about it and be "together".
oh man...Break,
I totally getcha on the jekyll/hyde stuff. I don't know how you do it. My H is talking about getting off his meds, too - then he just glares at me to see my reaction....ugh. I don't think he's strong enough right now at all. But by me saying that he shouldn't, he thinks I'm calling him nuts.
I don't know how you do it. You're the one who made me realize that it is possible for your feelings to come back..
So just a question: since our H's are Soooo similar and my feelings right now are Soooo turned off for my H.
Now: in your life since your feelings for him have come back and then this weekend when he pulls that crap on you (no offense) do you still love him? Or do your feelings start pulling away again.
OR!!!??? Does it all boil down to making a 'choice' to love?
I do still love him. But I feel very lonely still. Everything is great on the superficial friendly level, but there is a giant brick wall with razor wire on top if I want to go an inch deeper than that.
Right now...I have to find ways to work deeper on myself and do some healing of my own, because reaching out to him either results in shutdown or backlash. So. I am going to my support group every week and working on finding a counselor today, for me. Yet he shows baby steps. I think he wants to care, he is just...crippled sort of.
As far as the love goes...what I wish is that I could just ignore the outbursts. Take all that was good and forget the bad. I can't do that though, at least not yet. I don't know if that's what I "should" do anyway. The good does keep me loving him however. And people here help me to see that he does love me.
Again I read that little script I wrote and it sounds petty. But you would've had to have heard him and have seen the look in his eyes. What hurt me the most is that in our awful awkward attempt at some emotional intimacy the night before was what he was harboring it against me the next day....boom! I guess that's what I struggle with living with. How do you maintain a R with someone who could go off at a moment's notice?
I wish I had all the answers, peace. It's getting better is all I can say. Cookie convinced me last night that it will keep getting better. I just have to keep getting stronger within myself.
If it comes from within me, then no one can take it away.
you're a very very strong person...i admire you.
he really wants to get off the Paxil now.
How about staying on the Paxil and cutting out the alcohol? Mixing AD's and alcohol is like parking the car in the yard and running the garden hose then trying to drive the car and complaining that you're stuck. Stay strong ba. I don't have the booze issues, but I hurt for you and all the stupid stuff your H is doing. He had to blow up while watching the game to take control and bring you into his world. In reference to Stosny, what core value's does H feel are violated by opening himself up to you? There is a bunch in that book that I can't get my head around and it has been a slow read, but it is helping me. Praying for you.
Breakaway - I'm being selfish right now and I'm sorry. but.... can you take a look at my thead and give me your view.
I'll check up on you tomorrow. I promise.
This could help me and A as well.... What would your H have to say or do that would be the magic bullet to solve all of your M problems?
I feel like I keep screwing this up and my W has been really cold to me.
Thanks LE for comments...
I can't post right now...I forgot to mention earlier that I rescheduled that IC appt for S12 for tonight and I'm racing around trying to get some stuff done before we go. I spent too much time online today as it is.
Returned from first IC session for S12...though it seemed to be an awful lot about me...
Great great guy, we got him on a good rec, and he is someone who "gets it." S12 was happy. I'm still processing everything. I feel like slowly pieces are being put into place..that a Hand is moving.
H has enough paxil for the rest of the week...then we'll see what happens. We had a semi-okay convo about it. He said it should be about how he feels...and how can I tell him how it makes him feel or not feel? And I said, well it affects the way you act too. So how do you want to handle that...are you going to listen to me about how you're acting if you stop taking it?
And he said well that's not fair, because you'll blame everything on that...
And I said well THAT'S not fair, because then I'm in a no-win situation, because you'll SAY I'm blaming everything on that. So then what?
So he said let's not talk about it then. He's going to take it til it runs out (6 days). I have a feeling if I just don't say anything about it, he might just get it refilled. I don't know. I'll have to wait and see.
So he's indicating that he's going to go cold turkey when he runs out of Paxil?
Sheesh
I know virtually nothing about Paxil itself but I know about anti -depressants both first and second hand. I wanted to stop taking mine a while ago but my doc recommended that I stay on them for 2 years. Her reasoning? This was the second time I'd been on ADs (first time was 7 years ago) and I'd only been on them since May this year this time around. going off them at this point would potentially be nasty.
Your h, while he does have a choice of what he does with his own body, really should go see his doctor before going off his meds. He should cut it down slowly (eg going to a half dose per day for a couple of weeks and so on).
Have a look at this website (I just googled Paxil withdrawal) - show it to h. Point out the withdrawal side effect of bowel problems. yucko.
http://www.paxilprogress.org/pdf/Paxil-Withdrawal-Guide-2005.pdfJust some 0.02cents. It probably won't make a jot of difference to h though. *sigh*
Hugs
If I showed him that article he'd never take any drug again!!! LOL.
The thing is he insists his doc says he can just stop taking it whenever he wants...as long as he's feeling okay. Ummm...the reason you're feeling okay is because you're TAKING IT....ugh.
I know there is no way the doctor told him that. But he thinks so. He takes a small dose, a very small dose anyway. But it makes a difference, I'm telling you. He was so rigid and demanding and hostile before, it was unbearable.
That was back when I told him I was so stressed I couldn't cope and I needed things to change and he looked me in the eye (with his arms folded like a state trooper) and told me I'd better find a way to deal with it, because nothing was going to change.
So I decided to leave him. But then he coincidentally started taking the medicine then. Which helped when I told him I wanted to leave him. Ha ha.
Right now I just want to get through another day. One day at a time. All we got anyhow.
Men & drugs. I could go on for days on the subject. Ugh !
Hugs
I'm glad S12 is happy.
Break, same sitch with my H. He talked the Dr. (family phys.) into giving him a lower dose. gonna strangle the doc next time i see him. I have talked to Dr. about H's condition myself. Dr. told me in so many words that H needs higher help. H refused to see a psych. hmmmm.... so NOW what?
Feel your pain, because I KNOW the lower the dose - the higher my stress level and the MORE I have to put up with.
Well, this is often the problem. Docs willing to just hand out a prescription...for mood altering drugs...with no followup or counseling. Like "anxiety" is having a cold. I mean it's better than nothing, don't get me wrong!!! But it's not really "treatment."
It gets us to coping level...that's all.
Okay so a quick bit on the C session last night.
This guy understood very quickly what S12 is going through...and the pressure to perform and be "good enough." S12 is a really smart kid, always has had kind of a wisdom beyond his years..more of a deep thinker than your average kid (which is actually very hard for the poor kid). The C says he is obviously an emotionally intelligent person, and will be able to get something out of C for sure.
He says we are dealing with a "very powerful family system" with H's family. There is their way or the highway...about everything.
He made this cool analogy about city houses and backyards that are really narrow...(this is what it's like where we live)...and that some people always choose to stay in that back yard...and they don't even know there are places like a ranch in Montana, places with big sky...that the world is bigger than that backyard and that some people will continue to choose the backyard every time. Some people won't even believe that such a place as Montana exists. But it's S12's choice too...to "live" in that backyard or to find that bigger sky. He has a choice. To be who he is, is what he was trying to tell him...to break free internally from the pressure. And he talked to him about being grown one day...and he'd have to make those choices. He told me privately that he's trying to show him another way...that there is more than "the system". This is all tied into this larger substance abuse/control cloud over the entire extended family.
I had tears in my eyes. And really my heart felt kind of broken. I'm not going to turn 18 in six years. I'm going to turn 48. I don't have a get out of jail free card. I don't have any big sky. I don't have any choices.
I don't know if anyone reading this understands this "big sky" stuff...it might sound like gobbledygook to you...but I got it. (He said it better than I did, too, BTW.) It's so hard living with these oppressive people. So nice but so oppressive.
Just a vent....
I need to think about other things for a while I guess.
I had tears in my eyes. And really my heart felt kind of broken. I'm not going to turn 18 in six years. I'm going to turn 48. I don't have a get out of jail free card. I don't have any big sky. I don't have any choices.
That statement right there could very well be the thinking that causes us all to have so much trouble dealing with the sitch.
Why should age determine whether or not we have any choices, or "Big Sky"?
You are an almost WAW...by staying aren't you trying to find that big sky?...if you walk, aren't you going to HAVE to explore that big sky?
Am I not understanding what the C meant by big sky?
Since my wife dropped the bomb, even with all my pondering and drama that I put myself through...I always thought that..if it works out, we are going to find that big sky together, like we wanted to when we first met and fell in love.
If it doesn't work out...I am going to find that big sky on my own, like I promised myself before I met my wife.
Jeez..BA..I am a hell of lot closer to 48 than you...lol...I don't feel like I am too old to walk out of this little back yard I stuck myself in all these years.
It was just how I felt at the time. Age doesn't have so much to do with it really...but my point was S12 gets to start his own life...I had a moment in there of feeling like..."save yourself, S12!!! I'm going down with the ship."
The not having choices feeling comes from living in the alcoholic family system. I CAN have choices...that's what Al Anon is all about, in fact their new book is called Discovering Choices.
But it's hard to look down a long road and know that you are always going to be fighting for it, for your right to just be yourself. Why does it have to be like that?
But that's why their number one adage is ONE day at a time. Things are better than they were. So they can be better than they are...and I guess right in this particular moment they are fine. So...be in the moment, as they say.
It only works if you work it.....
I get the big sky thing. Even though we all know the grass isn't greener on the other side...some of us are 'stuck' in the small back yard because of our M. I'm one of them. I'm a big sky gal, myself married to a little back yard.
I getcha break...but I also get your analogy about be in the moment.
And the fact that your S has the option to see any big sky he wishes in his future is a feeling I wish sometimes I could have back.
Awwww...hindsight...
It only works if you work it.....
touche
I'm a big sky gal, myself married to a little back yard.
Anxiety disorder can shrink the whole world. So I have to remember that is at play.
And the fact that your S has the option to see any big sky he wishes in his future is a feeling I wish sometimes I could have back.
And I think that's what opened up that sadness for me...I remember how desperate I was to finally be GROWN UP...and out from under my dad's and brother's thumbs...one day, by God, I was gonna live in big sky country and nobody was gonna stop me.
And somehow...
But it's up to me how big my sky is...I am only in the beginning of learning how to live that way. So I have low times still. Over all I feel a lot of relief to feel like we had a good fit with the therapist. And I think H will like him too. The last one just riled him up. Not what we need.
I just had a thought...that I need to teach S12 by example and not lay down and be a sorrowful victim that he has to somehow avenge with his life!!!
Big Sky Lady!!!
So I have my own appt with the counselor on Thursday. I am looking forward to it.
Good for You...
IC has helped me.
Good for You...
IC has helped me.
Thanks...I think after warming up here, I'm now ready to spill my guts.
And hopefully really start moving forward in a way that will most help my son. When he's the motivation..well, I find the will to go on. The last 3 1/2 years of my life have been extremely difficult, with the last being the toughest. And now that the cancer sitch is finally winding up...it's time to "start over" in this family.
Funny. While typing that post, H came home...we've all been
blasted now for "not doing anything." The kids missed school because of power outages today. SO of course they were underfoot all day...only a day after having them for four days.
"Nothing's been done." Except I deep cleaned the whole kitchen, washed the walls, organized stuff...went to Target (with kids), grocery shopped.
But there was five minutes worth of clutter to pick up in the LR/DR...and I guess we should have cleaned the whole basement. Enough clutter to set him off,(folded socks, some catalogs, some dishes from late this afternoon) plus finding the kids watching tv.
He's gone to a wake now for one of our neighbors. I didn't go, which was fine with him. He's mad because we are unhappy now. HE'S NOT THE BAD GUY. He doesn't want to see our bad faces.
I stopped myself in the middle of defending what I had done today. He left. I hate him at times like this. He's not my f#*ing boss.
Don't expect to see me back here any time soon...I have demerits.
I don't feel very much like Steve McQueen.
I guess ignoring him during these outburst doesn't help matters much, huh??
Ooh...lemme at 'im...I wanna smack him!
H came home...we've all been
blasted now for "not doing anything." The kids missed school because of power outages today. SO of course they were underfoot all day...only a day after having them for four days.
"Nothing's been done." Except I deep cleaned the whole kitchen, washed the walls, organized stuff...went to Target (with kids), grocery shopped.
But there was five minutes worth of clutter to pick up in the LR/DR...and I guess we should have cleaned the whole basement. Enough clutter to set him off,(folded socks, some catalogs, some dishes from late this afternoon) plus finding the kids watching tv.
He's gone to a wake now for one of our neighbors. I didn't go, which was fine with him. He's mad because we are unhappy now. HE'S NOT THE BAD GUY. He doesn't want to see our bad faces.
I stopped myself in the middle of defending what I had done today. He left. I hate him at times like this. He's not my f#*ing boss.
Don't expect to see me back here any time soon...I have demerits.
I don't feel very much like Steve McQueen.
Maybe you're not Steve McQueen, but remember you are *The Queen* of your home. Now go get your tiara and lift your head high. His little tantrums are irrelevant.
He's got some big time de-merits. As you say, he is
not your f'ing boss.
Maybe you're not Steve McQueen, but remember you are *The Queen* of your home. Now go get your tiara and lift your head high. His little tantrums are irrelevant.
He's got some big time de-merits. As you say, he is not your f'ing boss.
Thanks, and thanks to MC and Purple. I'm not MC Queen, I'm THE Queen. That's fun.
He came home 20 minutes later, contrite. I guess a wake will do that...the kids had picked up, and dinner was simmering, and I was folding some laundry, so he felt pretty foolish I think. He apologized a couple of times. We ate. I went out shopping for a little bit, just to get some hair stuff, etc. Went to World Market and milled around. Got home and they are all watching a movie (The Man in The Iron Mask)
I had a little time to think it over...he was driving home thinking about going to that wake. E-d-g-y. And his mouth and throat are hurting...of course he never renewed his pain killers because he's tough guy. Tonight he said that was a mistake. I guess he'll get some more tomorrow. Though I don't know if that's helping contribute to weirdness (percoset).
If anyone remembers the Xbox story that also happened right before we were to go to the circus with the whole clan. If anyone remembers the Easter sunday story...that was right before we had a big family event.
Patterns.
You know he said something interesting the other day...about how good he's been trying to be...and that he thinks he's done really well with the cancer treatment and handling it. Which is true. But it makes me think...how much is the guy working just to maintain all the time? I think he must be constantly "trying" to keep it together...so it's not surprising that he blows sometimes. Just thinking out loud.
While he was gone and I was cooling down I just kept thinking "big sky, big sky"...lol. It made me smile a bit.
. You know he said something interesting the other day...about how good he's been trying to be...and that he thinks he's done really well with the cancer treatment and handling it. Which is true. But it makes me think...how much is the guy working just to maintain all the time? I think he must be constantly "trying" to keep it together...so it's not surprising that he blows sometimes. Just thinking out loud . .
I'm glad he at least apologized rather quickly.
He does sound like someone who tries really hard to keep it together. And yes, that is a set-up to blow.
I've been thinking about the whole "negativity" thing. If I remember this right, his dad jumped on him at dinner for complaining about something about his job. When H sent the email to you about changing he said something like he needed to eliminate his negative side. And H gets mad at you for being negative about the football game in the bar last weekend. It sounds like in his family there was no room to have anything but a positive emotion. Only the parents could be negative and complain. That's just not human. Can he accept being human?
Thinking in Stosny terms now, I wonder if your H feels disregarded in some way when the house isn't perfect, like if he mattered to you then things would be a certain way when he gets home. But then, it is up to HIM to regulate his feelings and to speak with you privately and respectfully about any issues he may have.
. You know he said something interesting the other day...about how good he's been trying to be...and that he thinks he's done really well with the cancer treatment and handling it. Which is true. But it makes me think...how much is the guy working just to maintain all the time? I think he must be constantly "trying" to keep it together...so it's not surprising that he blows sometimes. Just thinking out loud . .
What if H quit tyring to "handle it" in regards to the treatment. I mean, hell he's gotta let it out already. Seems like all he's doing is channeling his pain toward you and the kids.
Yeah. So. I went to IC yesterday which was incredibly helpful. Had like the mother of epiphanies driving home. Today I feel fresher. Have been doing a lot more reading on narcissism and "voicelessness" and how people like me are driven by one group of narcissists to finding validation by another one. FANTASTIC. So anyway, "healthy validation" is the new name of the game...along with detachment.
Detach detach detach...detach some more.
H is coming down off his pain pills he's been on for a month (that he really needed) but it brings back the sandpaper underwear. It's too trivial to even go into...he thinks he's irritable from some of his pain, but I think it's the drugs.
And today...yes...today is his last dose of Paxil. I am filled with Christmas joy about that. Detach.
Tonight we are going to decorate the Christmas tree...and hopefully enjoy it. I am going to. I will at least look at it as a scientific experiment in detachment.
I think I had a real "moment" last night, he was as usual, vascillating around about what he wanted to eat, or could eat...and suddenly in an instant...I just didn't care. I stopped making suggestions for him to shoot down, I stopped trying to help him. It's a ridiculous game. He can do what he wants, it's not my job to make him happy when he won't be happy. I felt very peaceful. He asks for help and then refuses help and it's extremely frustrating. If I let it be.
Okay, so time for some punk rock for those who partake...;P I actually feel a lot of compassion for my H...detachment doesn't mean I don't. In fact, it's good now. I know what his parents did to him...that's what this song is about...now he wants me to think I'M crazy. But we'll get over it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXK0HjfkrgwSo we decided that it would be in you're best interest if we put you somewhere where you could get the help that you need." And I go "wait, what are you talking about, WE decided? MY best interests? How do you know what MY best interest is? How can you say what MY best interest is? What are you trying to say? I'M crazy? When I went to YOUR schools, I went to YOUR churches, I went to YOUR institutional learning facilities. So how can you say I'M crazy?"
He was never institutionalized btw....lol...it's just the attitude...
It sounds like in his family there was no room to have anything but a positive emotion. Only the parents could be negative and complain. That's just not human. Can he accept being human?
It's not human. They are these nice, friendly, "loving," inhuman people. They give no "voice."
We love you
so much, but nothing you say matters and your feelings don't matter, and you just shouldn't feel that way then. We want to take you to Mexico because we're such great parents...but we can't pay you for taking an hour a day off to get RADIATION TREATMENT. But, there isn't anything, anything, we wouldn't do for you!!! We took you to Mexico!!! But I'm going to Branson for a week after your cancer surgery so I can't help with the kids. But I LOVE YOU SO MUCH!!! I MISS THE KIDS. OH how I WISH I had gotten to take them to Six Flags...I love you!!!
I think your family and my family have vacationed together in Mexico. "Can I help? Oh, sorry, not that week, I have more important things to do, but I'll help you in any way I can..."
Sounds like IC was helpful.
So...what are your plans to GAL this weekend?
As much fun as it was last weekend, I don't think I can handle going dancing again any time soon. Here along the Willamette River, during Christmas folks decorate their boats and cruise the river each night. It's a fantastic show, but very cold, unless you are having dinner on the water. I may go check out the boats tonight. Good for PMA. Bad for frostbitten extremities.
On the advice of my IC, I'm going to invite a girlfriend to a movie. No D/R/M talk, just a movie. For FUN.
Keep up the good work, honey. Peace.
Good plan, Goldey. Just Fun. =)
I don't know about GAL yet. I need to get my a$$ in gear and get things ready for a fun Christmas evening at home. H just emailed me and said the doc is putting him on Vicodin now. SO that's good and bad. But good for now. And he has a thrush infection so they are treating that and he should be better soon, which means less irritability. I, of course, told him I thought he had a thrush infection last weekend. What. Ever. LOL.
I'm gonna blow this taco stand and go have some fun. Have a great weekend goldey. Hugs!
Getting ready for Christmas should be a good GAL activity for everyone! Let's go all out this yr decorating and "being in the spirit". We deserve it.
We love you so much, but nothing you say matters and your feelings don't matter, and you just shouldn't feel that way then. We want to take you to Mexico because we're such great parents...but we can't pay you for taking an hour a day off to get RADIATION TREATMENT. But, there isn't anything, anything, we wouldn't do for you!!! We took you to Mexico!!! But I'm going to Branson for a week after your cancer surgery so I can't help with the kids. But I LOVE YOU SO MUCH!!! I MISS THE KIDS. OH how I WISH I had gotten to take them to Six Flags...I love you!!!
Yuk. Their words say "I love you" but their actions say otherwise.
It's only Saturday night...S12 and I are already worn out. Bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch.....
Waiting on the Mizzou game...
H was working on the basement..
I was working on the upstairs, we decorated last night but it still needed to be cleaned up and all "put together."
He came up and I said you'll be happy, go check it out...
H: It looks great! All right! NOW we can have mom and dad over for dinner...(the "finally" is implied here...and he's never said one frickin word about wanting to do that anyway).
ME: roll eyes...
H: OH, right, I forgot you can't stand my parents...
ME: I didn't mean that... I meant
H: Drop it!
ME: But I
H: DROP IT!
ME: I'm trying to say I was annoyed because you acted like it was finally "good enough"
H: Yeah right
ME: Hey, are you going to
H: Are you going to do this?? Drop it! FINE YOU'RE RIGHT!
ME: I'm not trying to be right...are
H: walking out. Just forget it
ME: pause...are you going to tell me what I think?
H: YOU'RE right...YOU'RE right, that's what you want.
Waited about five minutes...
I said it's not true that I can't stand your parents...
H: (all snotty) I know that.
Now he's following me around. Extra nice. Just keeps following me. Acting five years old.
S12 said he can't wait for Monday cuz that's when he gets to go back to the counselor.
Got about an hour before the game...see you guys.
P.S. I shouldn't have rolled my eyes in this convo, I already know that. But he's been a nagging nightmare since last night.
Ew triggers...h used to do this. cut me off in the middle of me trying to explain stuff.
Hint - you can't change what he thinks. If he thinks you can't stand his parents you can't change that. I'm trying to teach myself to say things plainly straight up like "Oh so you mean the place is FINALLY ok to show off to other people. You know you live here too and could have done x,y,z to make it happen faster instead of bitching about it."
*growl at BA's h*
Well, with him it goes back to the all or nothing thinking as well. I mean, I AM angry with his parents about some things...but that is NOT the same thing as not being able to stand them.
If you voice any complaints or problems or feelings...well then..in his mind, you're miserable, "it's all over with," you can't stand them...
So then you're left defending yourself (unsuccessfully)from the extreme viewpoint, or reminded to never say anything but sunshine and rainbows.
He's been all sunshine and rainbows tonight, so I told him that I was hurt earlier. As soon as I said that, in the most nonconfrontational way I could, he rolled his eyes...so I said never mind. So he apologized, and then I told him how hard it was when he shouted me down with Drop IT, and so on...and he says he just wants to stop the argument. It was just stupid...it wasn't worth arguing about. We talked a little and he just CANNOT see how he is completely denying me any "voice" when he does these things. He finally agreed but it was totally fake. I'll take it though! LOL/
then, really funny, he was flipping thru Men's Health magazine and they had a page on "speaking her language" and he joked about how he needed to read it...and he looked at it for a while..and then he finally said.."I just don't get this." He seriously doesn't.
<Sigh>
But then we read all the Mexican recipes and talked about which ones to make, so...that was nice.
Breakaway - Sounds like H can't let antyhing go and you fall right into the trap of trying to validate yourself. We know that's not contrustive.
Here is your quote ... "If you voice any complaints or problems or feelings...well then..in his mind, you're miserable, "it's all over with," you can't stand them..."
Maybe he can't deal with confict? Maybe is knows he's wrong but can't admit it and is presenting something else on the surface? If he is wrong, it sounds like he must have some sort of guilt attached to it. Maybe he can't live with the guilt and he knows he's selfimploding.
Maybe he can't deal with confict? Maybe is knows he's wrong but can't admit it and is presenting something else on the surface? If he is wrong, it sounds like he must have some sort of guilt attached to it. Maybe he can't live with the guilt and he knows he's selfimploding.
He can't deal with almost anything. Even good things sometimes. I think there's a 3 ring circus going on in his head most of the time, and he's always reacting to something he's obsessing about instead of what's actually happening.
Okay. Yesterday was day two without anxiety meds...coupled with day one taking Vicodin. Usual Saturday stress...up and down with the niceness.
SO..in the middle of the night...he has a panic attack. He wakes me up out of a dead sleep and says I'm not feeling well, I need you to hold me...so I come over to his side (we have a king) and we kind of snuggle up spoonwise, so actually he's holding me, kind of tight. Not like good tight. And he's saying he doesn't feel well, and I'm thinking he means because of his mouth and throat.
ME: Did you take your painkillers?
H: No! I'm afraid to take them. Because I'm not feeling well.
ME: ?? I'm confused.
H: Don't be confused!
ME: ?? What is wrong??
And I try to turn over and he won't let me...he's like, no I need you like this. And he's kind of clutching me. And I'm getting kind of...scared. It was so weird. And he says, I think I'm going to have a panic attack. I feel like I'm going to have a heart attack. And it's dark and I'm out of it anyway...and finally he decides he's not having a heart attack.
And my back was hurting, so I got him to let me turn towards him instead "just for a minute"...I told him I had to go to the bathroom so I could get up for a second and get my head clear...my internal "flight" sensors were ringing wildly. I could just feel all his anxiety pouring out his skin. I remembered Dudess talking about "the teddy bear woman" or something and thinking I needed to ask her about that...I felt like a teddy bear alright.
Got back in bed and "assumed the position" the wanted...but I was kind of freaking out. He wasn't threatening me or anything, but I just felt really scared. So after a while he calmed down.
And he said it had passed, and he was going to have to just try to be calm. And I said that's what the medicine is for. And he just stiffened up. I laid awake a while. It's kind of hard to "detach" when someone is literally holding on to you.
This morning he said, well I guess I need that medicine. So he refilled it. Again he was talking about trying to be calm, and I said, honey, most people don't have to "try."
He's also blamed the whole thing on some tea he drank last night though. Too much tea. Okay. As long as he takes the little white pill I don't care what he says. We also came to the conclusion that he should not take Vicodin. He stayed home from church and when I got home he was looking at me weird...and he said he was still having some of the weird feelings, and he'd taken some Vicodin. And we talked about how he could never take Demerol because he freaked out on it...and maybe if he needed pain medication he should stick with the Percoset (which is codeine I think). I don't like him looking at me weird. I'm not comfortable right now. At least he's talking about it and knows he's having weird feelings.
The other thing is, it dawned on me why he got so weird last weekend when I asked him to hold me...he's only wanted that for himself when he's close to having some kind of breakdown. I think he panicked over me just wanting some comfort, like I was going crazy or something. Because...he is the one who's crazy.
I've been wondering lately just what must be going thru his mind all the time. What he hides.
It's interesting that H blames everything but the obvoius answer. This time it's the tea causing the issue and not the lack of proper meds. Not sure what to tell ya about this one.
Yup Teddy Bear analogy indeed. Patricia Evans talks about it in Controlling People (I think)
It's not human. They are these nice, friendly, "loving," inhuman people. They give no "voice."
We love you so much, but nothing you say matters and your feelings don't matter, and you just shouldn't feel that way then. We want to take you to Mexico because we're such great parents...but we can't pay you for taking an hour a day off to get RADIATION TREATMENT. But, there isn't anything, anything, we wouldn't do for you!!! We took you to Mexico!!! But I'm going to Branson for a week after your cancer surgery so I can't help with the kids. But I LOVE YOU SO MUCH!!! I MISS THE KIDS. OH how I WISH I had gotten to take them to Six Flags...I love you!!!
Gonna beat you up a bit here. Remember those you blame hold power over you! I get the sarcasm but in between the lines I see you saying "If you had been better parents, I wouldn't be married to this ogre of a son you raised." Let this go to be a healthier breakaway!
Just catching up and thinking about the IC and the whole big sky vs. backyard thing. IC never said you couldn't check out Montana and then return to the backyard? Also the symbolism could be applied to M. It has been in the backyard and now it is time to head towards the Big Sky. H wants you to lead him out of his misery--he just can't admit it yet, kids want you to get them to a better place, and so far it looks like you are doing it through trying to learn and understand more about you, your H and your familial relationship. Nothing happens quickly enough for us here, but look at how much better you are doing since you first arrived! I like the analogy of using a beginners mind that is referred to in the DR book. It doesn't mean going back to the beginning, but allowing yourself to be open-minded enough to consider every possibility. Open-minded enough to consider that there is more and likely something better outside the backyard.
What if H quit tyring to "handle it" in regards to the treatment. I mean, hell he's gotta let it out already. Seems like all he's doing is channeling his pain toward you and the kids.
Emotionally incapable I would think. Cancer is associated with weakness and he has to be tough, strong, better than ever guy to beat the expectations of being a failure that he feels are placed on him. How do you avoid failure? Control.
Vulnerability is something H cannot show, he is frustrated because of it, because he wants to be loved, but can't be vulnerable and to be truly loved, you have to show your partner what you are lacking, total vulnerability. So H gets the cancer diagnosis and BOOM! Instant vulnerability crisis! Cancer:Weakness; Weakness:Vulnerability PANIC! PANIC! PANIC!
BA, did H want to keep the cancer news on the down low after the initial diagnosis? If so that might've fed his need to negate all the expectations that he feels are projected onto him by those who would show sympathy to cancer-stricken H. Well wishers come with expectations, much like birthday gifts and greeting cards. I can only think H dreaded all of that sort of stuff. Or, did he 180 and become a different person altogether? If he cannot meet the expectations, he does a drastic personality change to throw off everyone's perceptions of him? He escapes himself by becoming an emotionally different person, detached from the person he was before. Either one of these something H did?
I offer it up because this is how I have handled stuff in the past. This is the part of me I would like to leave behind.
The other episode about his parents coming for dinner just seems more like "control" spew. I think what you said about reality vs. what is in his head is pretty accurate.
Men's Health magazine... had a page on "speaking her language" and he joked about how he needed to read it...and he looked at it for a while..and then he finally said.."I just don't get this." He seriously doesn't.
Did you read it and try to use this as an avenue? Turn it around and ask him about what his language might be? Or did you just cut to the recipes? It seems like he was open to it and at least tried to read it, but either he did get it and it scared him (vulnerability) so he had to dismiss it with a critical comment and remove any expectations you might have of the new "educated" H, or truly H just doesn't get it! He is trying. If this had been my W and I, I would've loved her to engage me in a convo about how to love me. Granted ours would've drifted into some sexual needs talk, but I just wanted to know I was good enough in my W's eyes.
LE
Break,
My 1st thread locked and I started a new one...
I lost everyone that used to feed me sanity!!! I had a similar but not so drastic weekend as yours.
H has been getting chest pains and anxiety attacks and it is all self-developed. He creates thoughts (worries/fears) in his head - and develops them into what-if truths.... This all turns him into an anxious mess which is then of course overflowed onto the kids.
I'm finding my strength slipping away sometimes in handling all this. It very much like I have 3 kids and the kid I married is my most demanding one.
How do you keep your strength up?
Breakaway, it sounds like you handled a very difficult scary situation extremely well.
I too have noticed that my H blames everything/everyone except the reasonable solution.
& because I am comfortable using medication & going to doctors or emergency rooms, when necessary, at times I was called a hypochondriac.
Hugs to you. It sounds rough.
Had al anon today...thank goodness, as H is home sick...radiation effects again. He is rather difficult atm.
ALSO went to my regular doc...and he's given me Strattera for ADHD. I have ADHD without the H...so I'll just stick with ADD. Long story there, but glad to finally have some help with that. My doc is a champ. He really gets what moms go through and how stressful our lives are even under ordinary circumstances.
Hi breakaway, I've been looking for you to catch up on your sitch. Glad you got some meds for your ADHD. Can't imgaine going thru your sitch with no help for that.
I'll catch up w/ you later.
Gonna beat you up a bit here. Remember those you blame hold power over you! I get the sarcasm but in between the lines I see you saying "If you had been better parents, I wouldn't be married to this ogre of a son you raised." Let this go to be a healthier breakaway!
I took your point. I am working on it. A lot of the problem is that they have ACTUAL power over us. Over things like insurance, and money and so on. I have a lot of anger. And you're right, I do blame them for the way he is. It would be easier to let if go if they didn't get to keep doing it every day. Since they all work together. But I have to learn how to deal with it constructively. Just being able to pour it all out in counseling is helping me let go of it. And I think my new medicine is making a huge difference in only a few days!
H wants you to lead him out of his misery--he just can't admit it yet,
I have to disagree with that. I wish it were true. And I have to avoid thinking things like that because it is kind of a co-dependent thought. If you are co-dependent that is.
Nothing happens quickly enough for us here, but look at how much better you are doing since you first arrived!
That's the truth!! Thank you for saying I am doing better! It's always hard to see any of your own growth. What I can see is that THE biggest change is in detaching from the OM feelings, which was extremely difficult. I had some outside help with that as well...but it's a relief to not be burdened with that terrible sadness every day.
I like the analogy of using a beginners mind that is referred to in the DR book. It doesn't mean going back to the beginning, but allowing yourself to be open-minded enough to consider every possibility.
That's a daily struggle, that takes me back to Al Anon principles though, of one day at a time, and not feeling engulfed by the worry of "the future."
Cancer is associated with weakness and he has to be tough, strong, better than ever guy to beat the expectations of being a failure that he feels are placed on him. How do you avoid failure? Control.
Good points.
BA, did H want to keep the cancer news on the down low after the initial diagnosis? If so that might've fed his need to negate all the expectations that he feels are projected onto him by those who would show sympathy to cancer-stricken H. Well wishers come with expectations, much like birthday gifts and greeting cards. I can only think H dreaded all of that sort of stuff. Or, did he 180 and become a different person altogether? If he cannot meet the expectations, he does a drastic personality change to throw off everyone's perceptions of him? He escapes himself by becoming an emotionally different person, detached from the person he was before. Either one of these something H did?
He actually did BOTH of those things. It's all wearing off now, though he still won't tell when things are getting difficult with him physically. But his parents who swear they are supporting him are also putting pressure on him, and if he says there is pressure, they say he is putting it on himself. They deny your personal reality...
Did you read it and try to use this as an avenue? Turn it around and ask him about what his language might be? Or did you just cut to the recipes? It seems like he was open to it and at least tried to read it, but either he did get it and it scared him (vulnerability) so he had to dismiss it with a critical comment and remove any expectations you might have of the new "educated" H, or truly H just doesn't get it!
Honestly it was kind of a stupid article. It was in like a table form and I think he didn't get THAT. It was about how when a man is quiet he thinks it means one thing and she thinks it means another. But I would prefer he BE quiet than constant bitching. LOL. So it didn't really apply.
He is trying. If this had been my W and I, I would've loved her to engage me in a convo about how to love me. Granted ours would've drifted into some sexual needs talk, but I just wanted to know I was good enough in my W's eyes.
Well, a convo about how to love ME would be nice.
Journaling
So many things are always going on...and I'm taking in so much info...I just have to process it all sometimes.
Well...H has generally been acting weird and I think it's got a lot to do with the drugs he's on and so on. He's smoothing that out. I am going with him to a doc appt today. They seem to think it troublesome that he's still in this much pain, and truthfully I think that dependence on the painkillers is a possibility. He's finally back on "the right ones" and now he's fine. So. That's kind of a worry.
Anyway. I've been reading Jekyll and Hyde and Controlling People and they both gave me a lot of insight. It has helped me detach enormously. I no longer take his crap personally. I still don't like it, but it is losing its effect on my self-worth. Yay me! I think it's quite possible he has borderline traits. There are some seriously mentally ill people in the extended family...and I think he has
traits of it...IC thinks this is also possible.
The CP book really reveals the "family system" and makes it more concrete to me how they operate. It was all stuff I knew intuitively but found it hard to make sense of. It makes sense to me now, in the sense that I get how they view the world. Again...it's not personal. All people get viewed a certain way. They have a pretend reality and any individuality is met with resistance and even hostility because you are threatening the pretend world. Nazis were like that, btw.
Anyway. I feel like Neo in the Matrix, when he senses that he is in a false reality...but no one else can seem to feel it. So the question is, do I take the blue pill or the red pill?? LOL.
Okay, so forget them, back to me. The ADHD thing is going GREAT!! Doc says emotional reactivity is a form of impulsiveness. The med I'm on is definitely removing some of that. They can say their sh!t, and I'm like, well
that's bullsh!t...without having an emotional reaction to it. It's niiiiice. The thing is they don't think it's nice. I think part of H's tension lately is that he senses the shift. WARNING Will Robinson!!
BUT he is trying. It's so hard when all this physical stuff he's going thru is added to the equation. It clouds some of the issues. He promised to take the kids to the cabin this weekend so I could have my weekend alone, and he's doing it (tho I told him if he wasn't up to it he didn't have to). But he wants to mark motorcycle trail (I'm sure his dad came up with that) so he's going. As he said, Mr Happy (dad) is going to be there. I immediately wanted to control the sitch and not have him go and be around him but I stopped myself.
I think my new "schedule" is going to be good. Church on Sunday, Al Anon on Tue, counseling on Thursday. I think I can make it thru a week now. ;P
I forgot something.
H almost had a breakdown after I went to the doc and got the ADHD meds. The first thing out of his mouth was "I don't think you have ADHD." Thank you Dr H.
We proceeded to have an awkward conversation about it, during which I finally said I was not going to defend myself. That kind of threw him, and he said he didn't want me to. But then he said, But I'm your husband and I think I have a right to know what's going on. As if I was "doing something."
I said, calmly, do you mean I needed your permission? Well he couldn't say that. Anyway, he just kind of freaked...and he sat there and refused to talk. And I said why are you mad? Of course he WASN'T mad...he was FINE. Although he had this look in his eyes...I can't describe it. Like his life was in danger.
Anyway, I thought, he needs his teddy. So I just held his hand and we were watching Seinfeld discs and finally, I mean, come on, it was Seinfeld...he started to relax and then he was really kind of holding my hand back. And then he was fine after a while.
In the past I would have been so angry I would have avoided him the rest of the night, or we would have had a huge fight first. But I didn't get mad, I just thought, he's melting down because I am acting like an individual and this terrifies him.
Then he makes himself feel better by having me do all sorts of little tasks that make him feel like I'm "back." Fine. It's all in his head.
H wants you to lead him out of his misery--he just can't admit it yet
I didn't mean this in a co-dependent way, just an awareness thing. H sees you taking steps to get better and maybe he wants some of what you are having. You need to get used to H being weird, because in his mind that is what he is getting from you. He sees something different in ba and he doesn't know how to react to you. I think he knows that it isn't business as usual.
Well, a convo about how to love ME would be nice.
How do you make this happen? Could you have the conversation about how to love him, would that lead back to you? Five love languages is a good start, although you may want to give it a little more time.
In the past I would have been so angry I would have avoided him the rest of the night, or we would have had a huge fight first. But I didn't get mad, I just thought, he's melting down because I am acting like an individual and this terrifies him.
Growth!
H almost had a breakdown after I went to the doc and got the ADHD meds. The first thing out of his mouth was "I don't think you have ADHD." Thank you Dr H.
Break, my 2 cents...he may have been trying to give you a compliment and could not communicate it properly. Read this as him saying, "I think you are OK around me so why would you need these meds." It may also scare him to think that something may be wrong with you.
I may have completely missed it, but it seems like he has a hard time communicating his real meaning.
H almost had a breakdown after I went to the doc and got the ADHD meds. The first thing out of his mouth was "I don't think you have ADHD." Thank you Dr H.
Break, my 2 cents...he may have been trying to give you a compliment and could not communicate it properly. Read this as him saying, "I think you are OK around me so why would you need these meds." It may also scare him to think that something may be wrong with you.
I may have completely missed it, but it seems like he has a hard time communicating his real meaning.
Trying to understand one another goes both ways. It would also be thoughtful and compassionate if her H could try to learn to think about break's feelings and what she would like to do. Rather than giving his opinion, he could try, "What can I do to help?" or "I'd like to learn more about ADHD. Where's a good place to start?"....or something along those lines to show he cares.
By saying he doesn't think she has ADHD, he's completely disregarding what she is going through and feeling. That's not very supportive of a spouse.
JMO.
(((breakaway)))
I agree he could be more compassionate, but he may not even know how to do that. I agree that he tends to frame things from his own perspective and is not able to communicate well.
Break, my 2 cents...he may have been trying to give you a compliment and could not communicate it properly. Read this as him saying, "I think you are OK around me so why would you need these meds." It may also scare him to think that something may be wrong with you.
I may have completely missed it, but it seems like he has a hard time communicating his real meaning.
He does have a hard time communicating...with a lot of people apparently.
Thanks for your thoughts, but I don't think it was a compliment. BUT, I do think it does scare him if anything could be wrong with me. I think it scares him in the sense that I am supposed to be the rock. And since he's sick now, he feels even more that way.
He struggles SO MUCH with empathy. Yet I know he's not devoid. I once hurt my back pretty severely and there wasn't anything he wouldn't do for me. He was SO awesome during that period. I was stunned really, because he was so unavailable when I was sick or needed him in the past. But you know,
he's had back problems. So when he "gets it" then somehow he can find it in him to be caring.
That was a good story to remember. I have to find a way for him to "get it." Somehow relating it to him. DAM guy.
Trying to understand one another goes both ways. It would also be thoughtful and compassionate if her H could try to learn to think about break's feelings and what she would like to do. Rather than giving his opinion, he could try, "What can I do to help?" or "I'd like to learn more about ADHD. Where's a good place to start?"....or something along those lines to show he cares.
By saying he doesn't think she has ADHD, he's completely disregarding what she is going through and feeling. That's not very supportive of a spouse.
JMO.
(((breakaway)))
That's a foreign language to him. You'd think they'd learn by the EXAMPLE we give as spouses, but they don't see our care of them as applying to them and how they should care for us. He wasn't given an example by his parents. When his mom came home from the hospital with the new baby, the first thing his dad said is what are you fixing for lunch?
But I'm going to extend myself a little and think if I can explain it some way that gets through...maybe he will be a little more compassionate. It's hard to do this work when if he would BE a little more compassionate I could do this work!!! AAAHHH!
He is trying. If this had been my W and I, I would've loved her to engage me in a convo about how to love me. Granted ours would've drifted into some sexual needs talk, but I just wanted to know I was good enough in my W's eyes.
Well, a convo about how to love ME would be nice.
Yep....I'd love for h to ask me this too. Or even listen and then try to actively do something that I had asked instead of sh1t stirring me about it. I swear, the man must feel threatened by any form of intimacy that might open him up to rejection.
I give up.
I don't want to be married to this jackass anymore. I am so tired of being lonely. Honest to God at least when I was talking to OM it made it easier to tolerate being at home. Now I just have nothing. But I'm not going to contact him no matter what. I'll just post and cry here I guess.
I'm reading all this ADHD stuff and feeling kind of sad and overwhelmed about everything and thinking about how hard it is going to be to change...
Anyway, he went to bed and I came in and realized that I still had to wash my kid's school pants. And I started crying some. He did manage to ask if I was okay. And if he thought my medicine was giving me problems.
So I crawled in bed and was crying and said I was feeling overwhelmed...and that I felt like he didn't even believe me that I had a problem...
H: I never said that.
Silence.....silence....
ME: Will you hold me?
H:...I'm over here...(lifts the covers so I can come over there..barely puts his arm around me. I'm still quietly weeping but trying not to SCREAM because he's so...blah.)
ME: I need some love.
H: rubs my arm a little with the hand that's around me.
ME: Do you love me?
H: Yeah, I love you.
silence...
I go back to my side of the bed. He ignores me. I leave.
I am posting this to vent...and I am very upset. Please no posts on how I have to "show him how." That's like saying you have to show the paramedics how to resuscitate you. I know you're having a heart attack, but can you take the time to show me how to do CPR?
I hate him right now!!!!!!!
Breakaway - You will hear no such "show him love" talk from my. Rather, take care of you baby. That's all.
Your a damn warrior and we all know it. Take care hun.
I'm do sorry he didn't give you the love and comfort you needed tonight. It must be awful.
Finding out you have ADD is a big deal and he doesn't even think you have it.
((((((break)))))))
You definitely are married to my "old" husband.
I'm so sorry sweetie. I think if I was in your shoes, I'd feel extremely lonely & overwhelmed. A new diagnosis for you, new meds, with all the residual effects that has til the dosage is worked out, a H with a serious illness....... It's a huge load to carry.
Then add to that how humiliating it is to have to ask someone to show you affection, & when you get the courage to ask, they treat it like it's such a f*cking effort.
You deserve soooooooo much more.
Hugs
p.s. Doc would say....in the long run, it really doesn't matter what your H thinks. You validate your own reality.
Hugs
break, you are the best. We are all here for you. I wish my W would show any affection. It is tough to keep hanging in there. You will be in my prayers.
Thanks for everyone's support. I need to feel liked right now, which sounds pathetic.
Cookie, it is lonely, and it
is humiliating. Dudess, it does feel awful.
And what makes me ANGRY is that just a few days ago, he wakes me up in a panic attack and clings on to me like I'm a damn life preserver...yet..when I need something it's like...huh? What do you want now? It makes me feel like I'm a thing, an object...something to be used. It makes me sick.
But...I am a warrior (thanks A
)...and yeah, I do validate my own reality. I'm strong enough. It just sucks. Guess that sums up most of the board...we're all strong enough...but it just sucks. What did mules say the other day...anticipating major suckage...that made me laugh. At least I have friends...some people don't even have that. Think about how many lonely people are out there suffering by themselves. So I am very thankful for the people I've met here.
(((((DB friends)))))
Breakaway, a lot of guys on this board would love to have a W that worked on our M a hard as you.
Okay. Sun's shining. That helps. H sent me an email saying he's leaving work early to come get the boys and get out of here for the weekend. Says he hopes I'm feeling better since the sun is shining. (So he does know a few things about me) I am really dying for them all to get out of here and let me just do whatever for a few days. Don't have to hear the dreaded "I'm hungry."
I read this in my Al Anon book:
My life is a series of unfoldings -- incidents and occasions, agreeable or distressing. Each day is full of them, hour by hour, and this makes it difficult for me to take a detached view of all that is happening. I'm too close.
If these occurrences were like so many pieces of merchandise -- groceries or dry goods -- I would see them clearly, good and bad. Looking at the incidents of my life this way, I might be astonished to discover that the good far outweigh the bad. And yet, I concentrate so heavily on my trials and burdens that I hardly give a thought to relishing the pleasant and satisfying things that happen each day.
This noticing is an acute awareness of our surroundings and what takes place in them. It can be cultivated, like watching a play or a film.
Today's Reminder: If I learn to see everything with a fresh eye, I will find I have many reasons for contentment and gratitude. When I find myself bogged down with negative thoughts, I will deliberately turn away from them. Let me observe with new interest even the commonplace things that happen in each new day.So. That's something to think about. I have on my favorite old blue jeans. Revel in small pleasures.
breakaway, thanks for that uplifting post. It's all to easy to get sucked down in the quicksand, this reminds me that I do have a choice. I WILL focus on the glass half full.
Thanks for the prayers yesterday. Today is better. Wish I could grab some of that sun, but since snow is on the way, I'll take that instead!
love, Goldey
I also find this video "uplifting"
Time for getting into the spirit of the weekend
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZny6PTNCKQ
Anytime you want sun, head my way. We have 340 average days of sunshine per year.
Today it was 64, but sunny & gorgeous.
Hugs
Enjoy the quiet house. I envy you a few days of solitude.
Can I come over ??
Have I told you we just got S12 diagnosed with ADHD-I. The I is for inattentiveness. I suspected something for a few years (8-9 lol ) now. The other day I told S9 a series of 5 tasks to complete. He did all 5. I gave S12 a similar 5. He got lost after 1.
Anytime you want sun, head my way. We have 340 average days of sunshine per year.
Today it was 64, but sunny & gorgeous.
Hugs
Enjoy the quiet house. I envy you a few days of solitude.
Can I come over ??
yes!
Yeah, I have inattentive type. One thing I've tried to explain to H over the years is that there are 500 possible things I could be doing in a given day. Where do you start, you know? And of course, living with him, it doesn't matter which ones I do, I didn't do such and such instead. Oh...and HE could do all of it no problem. Right, H.
This reminds of me of something that has worked in the past! He used to get me so upset...when I was home with the babies..that he could do everything if he had to do it...(I think he hears this from his mother...she loves to say things like "well I never got behind on my laundry) And of course I would plead and cry and get angry and TRY to get him to understand,etc. But I remember one time I said...yeah right, you wouldn't last a day...and laughed...and he laughed back. And he said you're probably right.
The other thing is if I agree with him when he says something accusing... I mean, it's sarcastic, but it seems to stop him in his tracks...
He started one of his arguments, and tried to silence me again when I tried to respond, and he says I don't want to fight, why do you want to fight about it??
And I said, yeah, I WANT to fight, H, it's fun...and kind of rolled my eyes (have you guys noticed I have a rolling eyes problem)...but I saw him catch himself. Which worked a lot better than saying, but, H, I don't want to fight!!!
Okay, gotta figure out what to do with my ADHD self...I have a day wiiiide open, and I think I could walk in circles for all of it. Maybe I should put some ideas on pieces of paper and then draw one out of a hat and do it. LOL
I think I have one with "I" issues as well.... does it help that it's the H? seriously.. I think D14 has those issues. Cookie do you have more on that?
((breakaway)) hope the ideas on paper helped you focus & accomplish what you needed for you today.
hugs to U!
Bridge
My life is a series of unfoldings -- incidents and occasions, agreeable or distressing. Each day is full of them, hour by hour, and this makes it difficult for me to take a detached view of all that is happening. I'm too close.
If these occurrences were like so many pieces of merchandise -- groceries or dry goods -- I would see them clearly, good and bad. Looking at the incidents of my life this way, I might be astonished to discover that the good far outweigh the bad. And yet, I concentrate so heavily on my trials and burdens that I hardly give a thought to relishing the pleasant and satisfying things that happen each day.
This noticing is an acute awareness of our surroundings and what takes place in them. It can be cultivated, like watching a play or a film.
Today's Reminder: If I learn to see everything with a fresh eye, I will find I have many reasons for contentment and gratitude. When I find myself bogged down with negative thoughts, I will deliberately turn away from them. Let me observe with new interest even the commonplace things that happen in each new day.
Hey Breakaway,
Just had to note that text is really founded in Buddhist philosophy. The first part about life unfolding is a reference to what Buddhist's call 'impermenence'.
'Like watching a play or film' maps to the Buddhist slogan: 'Regard all phenomena as dreams'. In othr words, you should be able to sit back and watch life unfold around you, just like you might sleep and watch a dream.
Finding happiness in commonplace things, detaching and staying in the present are staples of Buddhist training.
Have I told you we just got S12 diagnosed with ADHD-I. The I is for inattentiveness. I suspected something for a few years (8-9 lol ) now. The other day I told S9 a series of 5 tasks to complete. He did all 5. I gave S12 a similar 5. He got lost after 1.
FYI... my S9 is also ADD-I. We started him on Adderall this fall and it helped quite a bit.
Yeah, I have inattentive type. One thing I've tried to explain to H over the years is that there are 500 possible things I could be doing in a given day. Where do you start, you know? And of course, living with him, it doesn't matter which ones I do, I didn't do such and such instead. Oh...and HE could do all of it no problem. Right, H.
....
Okay, gotta figure out what to do with my ADHD self...I have a day wiiiide open, and I think I could walk in circles for all of it. Maybe I should put some ideas on pieces of paper and then draw one out of a hat and do it. LOL
Ooh ooh! Purple puts her hand up. Me too!! I'm paralyzed and can't START Christmas shopping because there's so much else I have to do. The list never gets frickin smaller!!
h rolls his eyes (there you go, you're not alone) at my need to write lists. The busier I am, the more I have to write lists. If I don't have lists, nothing gets done, whether they're mental or on paper doesn't matter - though i do much prefer on paper so my I part doesn't forget what I thought was important 10minutes ago.
[quote=techguy]
Yeah, some of their books have some eastern stuff...and some Christian stuff...and the 12 steps and Serenity prayer really all go back to Epipictus or something like that. I can't spell it off the top of my head. I'll have to look it up.
Ever heard of The Art Of Living?
Ooh ooh! Purple puts her hand up. Me too!! I'm paralyzed and can't START Christmas shopping because there's so much else I have to do. The list never gets frickin smaller!!
h rolls his eyes (there you go, you're not alone) at my need to write lists. The busier I am, the more I have to write lists. If I don't have lists, nothing gets done, whether they're mental or on paper doesn't matter - though i do much prefer on paper so my I part doesn't forget what I thought was important 10minutes ago.
Yeah, well I write a list and forget the list, or don't get the list out, or lose the list. Or have the list IN MY HAND and don't do what's on it. But the medicine is helping and I'm not even up to the full dose yet.
I like to shop online...it doesn't take as much organizational work simply to GO...and they send it to you. But I always wait til the dead last minute.
I read in one of Hallowell's books that to the person with ADHD there is only
now...and
not now. So if something needs to be done say, by next Wed, all I hear is
not now...and forget about it til Tue night and I have an adrenaline surge that allows me to focus. Worked GREAT in college. I could write my papers in one night and get A's...crammed for all my exams at the last minute and got A's...but running regular life doesn't work like that.
I read in one of Hallowell's books that to the person with ADHD there is only now...and not now.
OMGosh, that is S12 TO THE TEE !! Now and Not now. He remembers everything at the LAST possible second. Then I have to run around like a crazy woman helping him. Ugh !
Techguy, Adderall is what we're trying. S12 says he feels a slight improvement, but he'd like it to be a bit more. We have a followup next week.
Bridge, I think my H has it as well, but he's found ways over the years to cope. I suggested he try meds for a month & just see, but that went over like a lead balloon. He's Mr. "I hate drugs". I'm the one that believes in better living through chemistry. LOL (teasing sort of) I'll send you a link to what I read that I used to diagnose S.
Hugs
Ever heard of The Art Of Living?
Hmmm... went to Amazon and searched. Got three different books back with that title
Is it the one from the Dalai Lama?
Ever heard of The Art Of Living?
Hmmm... went to Amazon and searched. Got three different books back with that title
Is it the one from the Dalai Lama?
No there's one that's a translation from the original Greek philosopher. I'll try to find what I'm talking about. I've never read it actually, I was just wondering if you'd heard about it. There's a meditation website that is tied into that as well...so it seems there is some universal truths there about accepting what can't change, and changing what can, and looking inward...the Western view would be to look upward as well.
(((Break))) how was your quiet day ?? I thought of you often in the midst of my chaotic day.
Hugs
Yes, it was very quiet.
I'm dealing with a lot of deep grief feelings... over many things. Somewhat overwhelmed. Trying to be gentle with myself.
I read in one of Hallowell's books that to the person with ADHD there is only now...and not now. So if something needs to be done say, by next Wed, all I hear is not now...and forget about it til Tue night and I have an adrenaline surge that allows me to focus. Worked GREAT in college. I could write my papers in one night and get A's...crammed for all my exams at the last minute and got A's...but running regular life doesn't work like that.
Man, if that doesn't describe me to a "T", I don't know what does...only I find as I get older the adrenaline surges are not enough to get done what I put off until the last minute, and I find myself making excuses or just giving up on the task at hand.
This personality trait was big issue in my marriage, as my wife over the years just gave up on me with my lack of focus on the things that were important to her.
Breakaway, how do they determine a diagnosis of ADHD? Is it psychological testing?
I'm dealing with a lot of deep grief feelings... over many things. Somewhat overwhelmed. Trying to be gentle with myself.
Sorry you are feeling overwhelmed. (((gentle hugs)))
Grief is hard. The way it comes in different waves at different times, when you least expect it, there's a small reminder & whammo ! Do be gentle with yourself.
If you wanna talk, you know how to find me.
Hugs
Breakaway, how do they determine a diagnosis of ADHD? Is it psychological testing?
I'd read some books or websites about it. Anything by Hallowell is excellent.