Ok second thread.. first one locked..
hear are my updates from the weekend...
I was in Orlando Friday thru Sunday evening for business. Had a great weekend.. went out Friday night after our sales awards party and we went to a nightclub and danced and drank ... didn't get to bed until 3am ... haven't danced like that in forever.. flirted with couple of my work colleagues all in fun.... everyone telling me how great I looked helped the ego...
So updates on H: He had our girls all weekend at our house. They did lots of neighborhood stuff.
Friday am he came to house 6:30am - he went up and got our baby and just walked right in the master bathroom and he said:
"Wow you look great, really pretty"
" I like your dress" ( i had a new dress on)
Me: I said thanks for the compliment
H: " Then he says you actually look Hot... really HOT" and kept going on
I said if you keep saying that and I didn't have to catch a flight I'd throw you on the bed and get it on.. we both laughed.. ( I know not good DBing )
I left and he called me twice on the way to airport.. talking about our little baby.. saying "who does she look like" and just chatting... he isn't usually that chatty at 7am in the morning.
I made sure he knew I was out late and I didn't call him Friday night like I said I would... these are 180's for me..
But got home last night - he was normal and hung out for 40mins or so but I did get in some R talks NOT OW talk just ... I had a convo with a guy I worked with who went through divorce when his girls were little and it just got me thinking... I know I'd be able to move past the affair.. what I'm struggling with now and would struggle with is the HOW - how could my H leave us and kids without trying everything to save the marriage first? the Abandonment issue... not sure he can ever explain this too me...
So I brought that up before he left... he seems so done and clear headed that at times I really don't think he is in the fog... I asked him... what happens if his feelings change in a year or five years? I said you know without a doubt, no looking back, you've made the right decision? He didn't answer anything actually... He just said who knows what is going to happen...
I feel a little more detached now and not caring so much about his every move or if he'll call or not.. just don't care this week so I feel good about this. I did find out I won a trip through work to Hawaii next year and my H and I knew we were going on this and now I will have to take a friend... little reminders how sad and lonely this road will be but I probably will just rub it in his face little.
H tonight said he was coming over for Halloween... I didn't say he couldn't b/c I know it is the best for my D. So hard because I want him to feel how it really will be at the same time.. ...
ST I made it.... great words of advice.. love the statement we need to stop our need to control... I have come so far in just two months with this.. leaps and bounds... control today and live for today... makes all this really seem so much easier than the fears and worries of tomorrow or next week or next month.. thanks so much for wise words...
I feel at peace today and feel like I've put in God's hands ... keeping the faith God will take care of me, my girls, and my H in due time...
My H fluctuated between he was absolutely sure he could never live with me again...to who knows what will happen in 1, 2, 5, 10 years!...each time it got longer which really diminished my hope that we would recover...but as you can see we have and this is just another reason you really can't go by anything they say...and while they are in the middle of the crisis you can't even really go by what they do...my H gave every indication that he was done...never complimented me...never called me...didn't miss me...didn't ask how I was doing or show other signs of concern...so see...there really is no indicater except the one I came up with..."As long as neither of us are remarried there is always a chance"...and that is where I finally left things...
It is a long road...you are JUST beginning...you really need to just focus on you and the kids and not really even look for signs of hope with H...if this is MLC it will be a long time before you really will even want to look his way...his thinking will probably get screwier before it straightens out...
Lin
imLIN,
Thanks for filling me in on how your H was at times.. I guess anything is really possible... just don't know by the time he realizes it if I will have any love left for him... but one day at a time right.
It is difficult... today I just feel so empty and angry toward him... or is it really so disappointed that it is hard for me to have compassion... I can't believe the man he is and has turned into... I can't hardly even look at him... As I said in my earlier post... I can move past the affair it's the fact that he just up and left and abandoned us.
He came over this morning to take my D to school and it must be nice to walk in, not showing up early to help out with anything (her lunch, getting her dressed, breakfast OH and mind you we have a 6 month old) so I was short and snippy with him has he took his work printer.. I told him I want all his stuff out of this house... I don't want to look at him right now.. of course I should be thankful that he offered to take and pick up my D... count the few efforts he makes right..
He is going to be here for Halloween so I'll have to get rid of my pissy attitude by then and just play nice and drink a lot - HA!! :-) kidding..
I will say I do feel that I have better days now and I am just getting use to doing it all myself with my two babies so my resentment is not high anymore (except today) but it will past in a few hours I'm sure...
pushing through...
Well my H is over now and is going to do Halloween with us and the kids but has told me he needs to leave by 9pm or so ... he has a party to go to with OW. UGH!!!!
We just went over our schedule through rest of year.. we decided that we'd share most weekends and one of us would have one night and all day with the kids instead of the whole weekend.. is this the right decision? I don't think I'm ready for my girls to be away from me the whole weekend yet. But I feel I'm still enabling him to cake eat and have it easy??? thoughts
On this note he is getting his furnished apartment tomorrow (1 bedroom) he thinks with our 6 month old it might be easier if he still stays at the house (he is still helping pay for) with the kids and I suggested that I would stay at the apartment or friends when he has his nights with the kids... I know this will help me during this transition not being away from them and them not being in a strange small place... am I still allowing him to have it the easy way out???
for all of you with little kids or some of the vets... how would you handle? I hate the thought of him taking them the whole weekend and the OW could start showing up etc ... but I feel he needs to at some point start living like a Divorced person since this is what he wants... get a taste of it...
Also, Holiday's he wants to spend with us and the kids... Christmas I'm ok with but not sure Thanksgiving... am I making this too easy on him??
I get the tough love from some of you and then I get the ... more time he is with us he is not with OW???
thoughts and suggestions welcomed...
hmmmmmmmm have to think, in the meantime, BREATHE thats the great advice i have gotten, and PRAY nite now!
TxMom--Hope the family time for Halloween was good. Take it one day at a time. Bg has some good advice. You weren't sure a week ago you wanted H there for Halloween, so don't make up your mind about Thanksgiving or Christmas until the time comes. You'll change your mind a hundred times and won't know if you made the right decision. Don't waste that energy.
Which is better for you, H comes to the house to be with the kids and OW shows up there or H takes kids to the apartment and OW is there? Two little kids, H, OW in 1 bedroom apartment over the weekend, that sounds like a comedy to me. There is a taste of life as a D'd person for him. I know you have to look out for the welfare of your girls first, but are they any less safe with him at the aparment than at your house? There is a difference between safe and comfortable. My kids can fall asleep in the weirdest places, so evaluate what is going to be the decision you can most live with? If you do D, where is H going to live? Are you going to let him have the house every other weekend if you are D'd? Set your boundaries and let H know what you are willing to accept. Will H respect you if you show him you respect his decision to live his own life in his one bedroom apt? If the health and safety for your girls isn't in question, then why should you be inconvenienced if this is the path H has chosen for his life?
LE
Okay...so I'm not sure where I read about the sharing the apt. idea earlier today. But, that's what I wanted to comment on earlier. I had a therapist last year who said that he and his XW tried that arrangement after their D and that it was a disaster. So, I don't recommend that at all. I say let him have his space. He can take the girls there...they'll be fine...if he's a good dad, they'll be fine. I don't think you want to know how he lives, and being at his apt. when he's not there is not a good idea. Staying with friends while he's a the house is also going to get old.
My boys (my youngest is 3 and 1/2) do fine at Dad's place...that's what they call it (this is home, that's Dad's place). It was a little inconvenient at first for H, but he worked it out. He got a 2nd tv and a couch after their 2nd weekend there. Now he has a few toys over there and a few articles of clothing.
Your H has to see what it's going to be like. You little one won't be concerned about where she is, and your older one might see it as an adventure. I agree that 1 night at a time is a good place to start until the girls are comfortable, but after a little while, I'd say, give him the whole weekend. That's the only good thing about my separation...I have every other weekend completely free to do what I want to do!
But, before you take any advice...pray, pray, pray!!! You can't go wrong if you can be still and listen to God!
Love to you!
Amy
{{{TxMom}}} you got some really good advice on sleeping arrangements. Stuff that I hadn't thought about as my H hasn't asked to spend the night with kids or take them for a whole weekend.
But yeah, why should you leave your own house for goodness sakes? He made a decision to leave your home and marriage to start this thing with a 25 y.o. If he wants to leave then he should stay in a one-bedroom. If he doesn't like it then tough, grow up and take the lumps.
Don't let him push you around right off the bat. You might think you are 'helping' him or 'taking care of him', that's how I used to feel, but you are only setting up bad habits for future. What about later on down the road, (if you don't get back together and are D'd) and you wanted some company for the night? Sorry to be so blunt but c'mon girl, don't give in without a fight. As for holidays, take them, take them all. Have him around ALL the time if you can. The more he's around you, the more pis*ed off OW will be and the more her true colors will show. And when she starts whinging then your H will start waking up. Meanwhile, your kids get special memories with their dad. You can do whatever you like, you don't even have to lift a finger, sweetie. This part of the script is already written. Good luck.
Great advice..... I know I need to make him take the girls... he doesn't want to b/c of our 6 month old and I don't want him to b/c the hardest part with all of this, separation or D, is the fact that he is taking my babies away from me... I don't want a whole weekend to myself unless I'm out of town. I work, travel for my job and I'm away from my kids enough but I know reality is if we do get D I'm going to have to get use to it... SUCKS!!!!!! ... my H wouldn't bring OW around if he was at our house but I can't say what he'd do when he is at his apt...
Funny LE - I hadn't thought of all of them crammed into a 1 bedroom... pretty funny thought !!!... Of course I will die the first time he brings OW around.. I don't want a 25yr touching my babies...
OH and by the way... my H will probably never stay at his apt by himself... he left our home and has been living with OW for last 5 weeks and just now is getting around to getting his apt... he'll only be there when he has the kids... but it does make him have to buy diapers, formula, wipes, food, dishes etc... so the kids can be comfortable. And as long as I let him stay here he doesn't have to start living like a separated person..
I also get concerned with my almost 4yr old sleeping in dad's bed every other weekend, and my baby in a pack in play all in one room... I don't need my 4 yr old to start expecting that she'll sleep with us all the time... or "at dads house he lets me" and it's all fun.. at the beginning it will be fine but not forever. He signed a 6 month lease and I guess he'll get a two bedroom at some point.
So to everyone's point I will start with one night and full day for a month or so and he'll watch at his place... once I get comfortable with this we'll move to every other weekend....
Last night was great in the neighborhood but I broke down when he left.... I thought I had it all together this week and I know he had a good time but he also gets to cake eat... right now I don't know if I can pull this off for Thanksgiving... but to LE point I'll wait and decide the week prior. He is truely living two lives b/c his OW is 25 so she has no kids, lives in small apt, and my H doens't have to think about us or be accountable... if she had kids I think it would be so different for us he'd have to be in family mode all the time b/c his OW would be... it is what it is but makes it easier to cake eat... boy what a great life.. he gets his kids for Halloween and then goes to his lovers to a young single Halloween house party afterwards... who wouldn't love that... what a dream!!!
but I wouldn't trade waking up with my girls any day of the week..
any other takes on this subject appreciated... thanks everyone.
{{{TxMom}}}, if H wants to party with the singles and give up waking up with the girls, then that's what he wants to do, sweetie. Not EVERYONE wants that, I don't and I am sure some other family men out there wouldn't either. Remember our WAS are having some major issues.
To address your OW's concerns. This chickee is 25 y.o. You think she wants to settle down and be a Mom? To someone else's kids? REALLY? No way. This chickee is in it for fun. She doesn't want to be bogged down with the day to day responsibilities of children. I love mine but they are hard work. So if and when she meets your kids and sees your H with your kids, reality is going to hit her like a 2 x 4. She may or may not stick around. Can't go partying with the kiddies in tow! It's going to get old very soon. It will take a very special person to love someone's kids. And if she is a very special lady, then great, your kids will be loved whereever they go. My bet is that she is a typical 20 something, very self-centred and doesn't do volunteer work and build communities. What do you reckon?
I think she will run the other way when the dirty diapers arrive.
Also, don't worry about the sleeping arrangments. Just explain to the kids simply and set firm rules about your house. Make it like it's the house rules and you have no control over house rules. (As in, 'I would love for you to sleep with me, but that is the house rule. Sorry, darling.' They will tire of arguing with you and accept it.
TxMom, don't think he is having such a good time leading two lives. He is not. He is probably eating himself up with guilt. This is going to show in his face around you and around OW. So don't let the subject of 'What a great life he's leading' influence your DB'ing. Trust it baby, leading a double life is HARD WORK. He is fighting with his conscience and at the same time trying to find pleasure. Sorry, can't have both unless he is totally cold-hearted. And I don't think he is that because he is still spending time with kids and is trying to be a dad.
So in summary, DB your butt off, have in your mindset that he is feeling miserable (and he probably is). Let the chickee deal with dirty diapers if the time comes but don't worry about it now. Don't take on added stress before you have to, OK?
Well I never had to deal with this because my H didn't take our son ever over night...and he was 9!
My feelings are...they go to "Dad's place"...the oldest should have an air matress or something to sleep on, not with her dad so you don't have to deal with bad habits...he can sleep on the couch or make up a little area for her in the living room on an air matress...that is what my kids did at grandma and grandpa's..it was fun...actually we even got a little inside kids tent for my son to camp out in!
I would start with one day at a time to see how it goes for the kids and you...I told my H he couldn't have our son overnight because I didn't trust him (he had some issues going on that were beyond OW although I did tell him she would NEVER be around my kids...put that in the LS agreement and he signed it!)
I think the more he comes around to be with kids and you the better able you are to show him how you are changing for the better...plus as others have mentioned it gives OW time to stew and get naggy!
Try and control the snippiness (you know that) but I would ask that he get his things out so you can get on with things how YOU want them...his stuff is in the way now!...be nice but set a date (reasonable)...and start rearranging things
Lin
PM and imLIN ---- thanks so much...
boy did things change for the worse this weekend and I'm so glad I just popped on to see what you guys said.
PM you nailed it on the head.. My H spent Halloween with us and then went out with OW... he was open to coming and being with the kids Saturday night and all day today... well come Saturday morning and a few texts later my H called at 2pm and said " can I just do all day Sunday"?? He was hung over and tired and "hurting".... I told him that not doing Saturday night was fine but could he come by for a few hours b/c I had a mani and pedicure scheduled (as I had thought he was watching the kids) he said " I'll call in an hour" this is after he argued with me about coming over and how important was my mani and pedi? I said how important was getting wasted last night for you?? " it's all relative" needless to say he didn't call me until 4 hours later at 6:30pm and said he had fallin asleep and I guess so did OW.... he said how sorry he was.... whatever!!!
I was so mad... he came over this morning and is here now.. I went to church this morning and thank gosh talked with a good friend because I've been crying and so angry today.... let down again... why do I let it bother me...
So to your point PM - and as my friend said.. that my H is probably do the best he can do juggling two lives, that it must get exhausting for him... This past Wednesday he forgot to call our D3 back and we got into it on Thursday about that.. He is A.D.D too which only adds to his loofness.
I want to suggest counseling for both of us this week to discuss separation expectations because clearly he probably thinks he is doing a good job and I clearly don't think he is.... we need to set some boundries and I think our first meeting needs to be with a third party so I don't kill him. thoughts??
I have to assume that he is not going to be the Dad he was when we were living together... how could he... I guess I figured, leave me but not the kids, but in reality how can he really do both good... his girlfriend and be a great dad... it just pains me for my girls and I feel if he can't get it right now that it will probably only get worse moving forward... and my kids are the ones who will be hurt. Oh well deal with that when it happens..
thanks so much for encouraging words.. I needed it today.. I'm now going to go enjoy my afternoon ...
good morning all..
Well H spent the day at our house all day yesterday. We talked about next weekend and that I'm playing tennis Saturday morning and I mentioned that he'd have the girls Friday night until Saturday morning so I'd just come pick them up when my match was over.
He goes into it again that it really doesn't make since to have the girls at his place.. with our 6 month old he doesn't have a highchair, and all her stuff... he doesn't even have a TV yet etc.. I told him that he can't keep coming here to watch the kids... H wants to watch kids here and then go to apartment to sleep and come over in morning to feed etc... (must be nice)
What do I do?? Do I keep inforcing this issue? I told him this is what you wanted not me and yeah I don't want my kids anywhere but home. I mentioned the last time he watched and stayed here - he came down at 12:30am and told me he wanted to leave he wasn't comfortable... he just stood there.. that this would be easier for him to just get his place set up and stay there..
He said we need to sell the house then b/c he needs a two bedroom and can't afford a 2 bedroom and keeping up with the house payments and bills... I said selling the house is not an option right now and I'm not loosing my shirt on this home... we've been here only little over a year. I said your going to have to accumlate all new stuff anyhow, crib, highchairs, toys eventually so just start now ... I said why get the apartment if you aren't going to be spending any time there... trust me with no TV or cable he doesn't plan on being at it very much.. He says he was trying to go cheep and stay close to the house.
thoughts??... He will stay at the house when I'm not here but on weekends he needs to take them over night at least... of course I hate this but I also know he'll never really feel the pain or uncomfortableness if he continues to just watch the kids here all the time...
Gosh I want to ask him... what do you think your doing with a 25yr old... but please he left his kids and wife without even trying to save the marriage for her so who am I kidding... he clearly sees a future with her or is willing to risk it all to find out.... UGGGHHHH!!
thoughts??
Hi TxMom, So H is not having a great week. See how they try and manipulate the situation, Oh if I have to take the kids then I need a 2 Br so we have to sell the house (so H could have it easier???)
When my H told me he was moving, and I told him what he would owe a month he was floored. (since he never had to look at a bill). H said maybe we should sell the house. I told H -- this is what YOU want not me. I am not moving our D out of here till she gets out of school -- 3 more years and you are paying 1/2 of mortg/taxes/ins and child support. I am not disrupting her anymore than I have too. H agreed.
H also got an apt that I have to pass by every day. He is paying $1200 a month. H had delusions that when he moved D15 would come over for barbercues, swimming at pool with friends, and sleeping over. Well 2 weeks into this D wants NC with father and is very angry with him. I try and push her and a good friend who is family therapist said to respect her decision and validate her feelings. I agreed and D15 is doing much better. So now H is spending almost every night at OW's house (He can't live there since she works for him) and I am the one who has all the responsibilities of taking care and driving my D15 to all activities. At the beginning I worried this would bring H and OW closer but now I think that H is having all this pain about D15 and hopefully this will cause problems with OW. We have to gauge the final reaction not how we perceive it.
Originally I thought you should keep kids home but after reading the other posts I have to say I agree -- send the kids to his house. I am sure OW will want to see them - maybe H will have her come over to see them and then let the reality set in. Make sure you give both of the kids some prune juice about an hour before they leave! Let real reality set in -- lol
What do you want as the end result?? It might take more pain on our part but our target is to restore our marriage. We need to try different 180s and see what will happen.
Tell your H to look on Craig's list or garage sales for high chair or better yet -- let him cart all the items he needs from your house for now. Make it inconvenient. Wouldn't we all like to watch our kids for the day and just go home and have a life -- Tell your H that you and him are both doing your part for the kids and financially but you need some free nights also. Don't explain why. I know really it is tearing you up inside losing your babies for a night or two but keep your sight on the end result.
This is going to be a long haul.
well today he went and got his keys to his apt and said he'll take the girls there Friday night... he almost seems excited.. I wish I could see the guilt in his face... I don't anymore unless he lets us down like Saturday because he was hung over he seemed bothered but other than that he is trying to be more accountable so I think he actually doesn't feel guilt or doesnt show it..
I hope I'm strong this Friday night and Saturday - sleeping in our house without anyone hear will be weird and so very sad ... it will be very weird to wake up Saturday morning without my kids in our home... brings tears to my eyes ... don't know how I'm going to manage to play tennis .... It makes me sick to my stomach.... every hurdle is going to be hard.. I know this is the right thing and he needs to take them - for him - but I'm going to suffer.. I hate this!!!
I need to pray pray pray this week about this... I can hardly think about it..
Hang in Tx Mom! I wonder if I had filed and kicked my W out where I would be right now. It might've gotten all too real too quickly for my W. Instead she is home with the kids playing family with OM. Sometimes we have to do the opposite of what our instincts tell is to get the results we want in the end. Keep praying and if you are going to be weak on Friday and Saturday, make plans. Go get a movie or invite a friend over, get some carryout food. Don't look at it as "I am going to be without my girls, what will I do." Instead, "The girls are with their Dad and this is my time to enjoy a quiet house!" Can you make it more like a getaway in comfortable surroundings? Not a lot of time to comment. Just weighing in on your thread.
Listen to LE. You need to get your mindset off of what you don't have and on to what you do have....free time to do as you please. I miss my daughter every Sunday when she is with her Dad. But, I use this time to clean and read and take a bath and run around naked if I want to....Go to a movie, invite a friend over for dinner, make it fun. DO NOT sit around and do nothing. That will certainly make for a sad weekend.
Thinking of you
TxMom!!! Hang in there. This is not your problem...how H deals with taking kids to his place. But, I did take the kids shopping before they stayed over the first time to buy toothbrushes, etc. That way they saw that I was okay with them going...that I wouldn't be sad without them. That made it easier for them I think.
The first one will be hard. But, I have to say, after that things willget easier. In fact, if you can do as LE suggested and see this as a vacation of sorts, you can really look forward to your time alone. I do...some of it anyway. But, not all of it!!!
The kids will be fine. It will be rougher on him than on them...that's for sure.
Make some plans...even if it's just grocery shopping. Don't stay at home alone. I can assure you that's not a good idea!!!
Hugs to you!
Amy
thanks LE, BS, and Amy....
Yeah right now I have plans to meet a friend for dinner... and you are all so right.. gosh focus on the positive!!! I never thought I was negative until thrown into this horrible sitch and I seem to dwell in my sadness somedays.... it is also b/c I will be traveling Tuesday night and Wednesday night for business so I'll be with them Thursday night and Friday day...
So I will be out just will be weird to come home to them not here and wake up with them not here... but I need to think positive thoughts ..... Amy I hope it gets easier as time moves on...
While reading tonight to my D she said out of the blue " I'm going to dream about Daddy coming home to live with us" took me off guard... I teared up and said let's say a prayer for him.
I decided to text him what she said in a nice way...
he text back and said "thanks for letting me know... makes me very sad... I will try to explain to her tomorrow.. You know I don't want them to ever feel I don't love them"
I said " she knows you love her but doesn't understand why you left... you didn't just leave me.. I just wish the girls had meant enough to you for you to "try" before you left us" ...
then I texted and said I'm not trying to make you feel worse... coming from the heart not anger.. Good night...
He text back said " Nice... I know... have a good night as well"
I felt he needs to hear what I hear every now and then and I hear it everyday...
more later... thanks again for support
{{{{Tx}}}}} Ugh..what a sitch you are in and it sounds like you are handling it wonderfully
Come here and post as much as you need to this weekend while you are having your "alone time"..I hope you can find a way to have fun and think of your hub having to juggle what you do everyday (that should at least bring a smile to your face <grin>)
Tawnya
{{{Tx}}} I know, it just breaks your heart when your kids are hurting.And we just can't seem to understand why these WAS could walk away just like that. They think explaining things to the kids makes it all right to do it and squares things with them but don't REALLY understand the hurt, loneliness and pain they inflict on others. We LBS think if they only truly understand this pain then they would stop. Because we think that underneath all this unacceptable behavior, they MUST BE decent people underneath. We have known them for years and they have not hurt us in the past so they MUST BE good, right?
But I have found that we need to release these expectations. Yes, they do feel guilty but they can't help themselves for whatever reason. They are all in a selfish place right now. Thinking of their own hurt, pain, guilt and not in a place to take care of their loved ones. We, the LBS, not only get the shock of our lives but then have to step up and nurse everyone else's pain. Then on top of that have to be ultra understanding to the WAS and then cross our fingers, get a life and hope one day they will change their minds. It's totally unfair and it's a heck of a lot to ask.
{{Tx}} it's time to get the women of your life together. These women will support you no matter what. These are your mother, sisters, girl friends, aunts, cousins, best school friends, in-laws (if applicable) etc. Men can come and go but it's the women in your life who will stick with you. Put all your loving energy in your kids and developing these women relationships. Good luck for this weekend!
Wow {{{PM}}} I Have to say, I never thought about it that way..it is totally unfair and a heck of a lot to ask. Looking at it in that light, I think we are all doing amazingly well eh?
{{{{{{{{{{Tx}}}}}}}}}} Hugs to you my friend..how are you?
Tawnya
(((Thinking of their own hurt, pain, guilt and not in a place to take care of their loved ones.)))
This is something that my H shared with me after he did return...he really was lost in his own pain and loss of self-worth...he told me he couldn't love me because he didn't love himself...the OW...well we all know that is the "feel good drug" of choice...they are reaching out to feel "something" anything really...and the high from that carries them for a while...but like I told my H...one day he would be sober and have to face himself in the mirror...and I hoped he could stand to look at who he was...you can't stay drunk forever and "things" don't bring you happiness no matter how many things you aquire...
It is sad and heartbreaking, yes...but you do what you have to in order to hold it all together for the kids...you GAL and yes, call on your best friends...eventually you get through it...and hopefully with the ending you want...either way...you will be stronger and better!
Lin
thanks Lin,
you have such good wisdom because you've been here where I am and you pushed through and your H came home... I do agree that my H might not feel worthy of our love or loving himself right now....
I'm journaling.....
Boy this week is a hard one... I'm am just so sad.. sad for failing my marriage, sad for my future without H. Sad for all the memories he is creating with OW and soooo sad for my girls and for me to have to give them over to my H and I'm not with him/them to enjoy.
My H doesn't seem sad, doesn't seem hurt, he has been 70% accountable to the girls, but does slip once or so a week... but is it just a guy thing, or his thing... maybe the H I had and the great Dad he is/was wasn't really him. Men don't have those maternal instincts, and don't miss there kids like Moms do ... it is just different. I'm scared that my H isn't having a MLC, or isn't in a "fog" that he is ok and just happy in this new relationship.
I also feel like I want to share with him my feelings, why do I need to play the games? Why is it so wrong if I called him when I was crying and just say I'm sad this has gotten so bad? I feel at some point I need him to just talk to me, I'm doing all the suffering and he is just as happy as can be, honestly I don't see any guilt or sadness anymore like I did the first 3 weeks he moved out.. I think he is getting comfortable with his new life style. I don't think he cares what he is doing to the family, kids. I have to believe at some point he'll have a moment when the dust settles and he is out of the newness of this relationship with OW that he'll look back and say " gosh what have I done" or " gosh I wish I would have tried harder for my marriage" ....
I feel I won't be able to fully move on and have closure if I don't get answers someday, do counseling with him, get some closure from him... I know now isn't the time but I hope someday he will be able to talk to me about all this and what really drove him to leave me.
I'm tired of loosing minutes, hours, days to sadness or anger... I want to truely feel happy again... don't get me wrong I am happier and have come a long way in little over 2 months since bomb.. but I still have too many moments where I just have pain and feel like a failure... I know it will take time.... and I hate it... hate that this journey will be so long and so painful... the emotional cycles I'm going through are driving me crazy...
I don't want my marriage to end.... somedays I still can't believe this is happening
how to push through?? how to have strength to make my changes and make H want me and our family again.... Gosh I pray and I know God is listening but somedays I don't hear his response... what is he trying to tell me...
TX
I know exactly what you are talking about...had those same thoughts and wants...I wanted so many answers to so many questions...
My H seemed happy too...he bought all new clothes, a BMW sports car, new hair style, facial hair, lost weight, just seemed that he had rid himself of all of his problems...namely, ME
Now he tells me he wasn't really happy...but because of all that he had done he had to at least act like he had done the right thing!
I know what you mean, wanting to call and talk about how you feel and the why's...the problem is this...as much as we NEED to release these things...they don't WANT to hear them...and it really does no good...especially as "new" as you are in this...It will make him feel more pressure, more guilt, and want to avoid you even more...
I did this a few times and it gained me nothing...until about 2 years in...the second divorce filed...I found out where he was living and visited to have him sign the divorce papers...I layed it all out...the 2 years of pain and suffering that I had endured just bubbled out for a few hours...did he act as though he cared?...no...wouldn't even let me in his apartment to use the bathroom!...took me to Starbucks!
But a few months later he moved back to town...was it something I said...I probably will never know...I don't bring up those episodes with him now...it is over and past...and looking back now does me no good...moving forward is where we are now...
You will get there...just keep the focus on you and the kids...find things that make you smile and do them...take up a hobby...go to funny movies...take walks...H needs time...MLC is obvious here...but that is no guarantee he will come out of it and come home either...so what it is really doesn't matter...it is what you do that matters...
Lin
You are doing OK, and a call to H to share your feelings would serve no purpose right now. H knows how you feel and all that would do is make him feel more guilty about how he has chosen to live his life. What seems logical to us is just boolean to them.
I know God is listening but somedays I don't hear his response... what is he trying to tell me...
At least that is what I remember from a sermon heard in church many years ago. The answers come on God's schedule not ours. So pray for patience, pray for strength and pray for courage.
Stay strong TxMom! Be proud for all that you've done so far.
Thanks so much LE and LIN -
I am MUCH better now... I cried a river at the airport and on the plane reading my latest book "for women only" and then landed and went to see my C today.. she helped me get rid of the negative thinking... the statement I made " I failed my marriage" and she said I didn't fail that it takes two... I wanted to work on it and knew I wasn't perfect.. H made the choices and didn't want to work on it. that those thoughts will cause me to feel sad and pull me down. So true..
When I got home H was there and we hung out a little... I was in a very calm place which was good. I told him I wanted to talk money Sunday or Monday... we touched on a few things and when he was leaving my D for the first time started crying, like an adult would, not a tantrum just crying and telling Dad don't leave, I want you to stay, I want you home, wanting one more kiss and one more hug...
He finally came back in the house for another 15 mins to be with her... he did tear up for a minute too and so did I... My old self would have been like "see what you are doing to her and us" but I just sat there or walked off and let them have some time... and said nothing but tried to be supportive to our daughter.. she was crying so bad and so sad.. she is so confussed why Dad doesn't stay anymore. My H didn't seem as upset as I felt he should be but I am glad he got to see this so he understands how hard this is for her.
He left to go to the store getting his apartment ready for the girls tomorrow... We called him and for the first time he and I talked about R stuff without emotion and just nice simple calmness... I just suggested that we need to be careful to not always buy our D things or think a movie or a pinic is going to always make up for her pain (this is what he was saying to her to try to make her feel better)... he agreed.. that what she wants is time with him ... that we need to make it quality time.
We talked about OW (any other women) and that I know he is not a Mom but for him to try to understand that half my pain with all this is for our girls, the future relationship with him, etc.. that there is no benefit for our girls to be around any other women in the near future. He agreed that it would be a long time before that and that this isn't an issue and hasn't even ever come up with him and OW... I was thankful for this.. I told him that for obvious reason hope it is never HER ... he brought up that he has thought of the possiblity of OM in my life or stepdad down the road that it has made him think and that he is always Dad... and that we are their parents... that no other women or man should ever try to parent them that is our job... My H said that if he ever saw that another women was trying to do this he would be through with her....
So good and bad,,,,good that for the first time we talked about future stuff, our kids, without a pit in my stomach or emotion or attitude out of me... a very calm me. But sad that the more we bring up "future" and I'm not in the convo it confirms how done my H is in his mind .. but I'm actually not sad right now like I've been all week.
He is opening up to me, he texted me 3 jokes last night, doesn't run out of the house when I'm there.. even though I have to swallow my pride and play nice to make mends it is better than the lashing out of anger or emotion... We have laughed together a few times. I still hope and pray someday I get some feelings from him but realize he couldn't give me answers right now anyhow... I just don't think he realizes the pain he has given me with his choices.. but hopefully he has guilt in his quite moments...
Side note - I asked him who all he has told or who knows.. he said no one really but his boss knows we are separated but no details... I was surprised that if this is what he wants why he hasn't told anyone but of course they would ask questions and he won't be telling anyone he left me for a 25yr old... I hate that he still lives in hiding so to speak..
thanks for support.. I feel like i'll do fine tomorrow night.. going to dinner with a girlfriend - kids will be fine - and I play tennis Saturday at noon so I'll get up and out in the morning to work out or something.. keeping busy.. more later
I need to check on everyone else..
TxMom--Don't read anything into what H is thinking or how "done" he may seem. He isn't, he is just processing his feelings and trying to keep everything in the air to entertain the beast that has taken over his mind and body. H may have gotten into his car after the episode with your D and broke down, you don't know. H isn't going to show you that side of it, but I don't think anyone but the cruelest of fathers can stand to see his kid in pain. Especially, Daddies with their little girls. Your H isn't one of those, he still cares for his girls and you. Keep detaching and respecting his feelings, maintain your boundaries and keep swallowing your pride. It sucks, but I think that is a key to success in any relationship is being able to put your needs aside at the times your mate needs to have their needs met first. Pride can wreck all of that pretty quickly. Just throw all your expectations out the window and keep doing the best you can. I'm praying for you and proud of you for doing so well with H and traveling so far, so fast!
I asked him who all he has told or who knows.. he said no one really but his boss knows we are separated but no details... I was surprised that if this is what he wants why he hasn't told anyone but of course they would ask questions and he won't be telling anyone he left me for a 25yr old... I hate that he still lives in hiding so to speak...
More evidence that this A isn't going to stand the test of time, and even H may see the writing on the wall, at the least he doesn't believe he wants to give himself fully to her. My W said the sneaking around was part of the appeal of the A. Just speculating here, you were re-thinking exposing the A after he told you this? Hang in there and keep doing the things you've been doing for you. Good that you are going out with GF and playing tennis.
TxMom!!! Sounds like you are doing okay. I hope so. I agree that H is still confused and still processing his feelings. And, I too have decided that the friendly is better than the unfriendly where the kids are concerned.
You are doing a great job!!! Keep it up. And, keep praying. I posted to your other thread yesterday on that topic!!!
Love to you!
Amy
LE..wow thanks for posting that to Tx, think I'll take some of that ", but I think that is a key to success in any relationship is being able to put your needs aside at the times your mate needs to have their needs met first."...that's a tough one to swallow, but I need to think of that when I feel so rejected/dejected by my hub
{{{{Tx}}}} I'm so glad you are doing better..I couldn't post for the past few days because of a prob with my account here, but as I read your posts and how you felt and what you said for the past few days, I just wanted to cry too, because that's so how I feel. I'm so glad you were able to have those talks and times with hub and not feel that pit..gives me hope that my pit will go away too
I'm SO glad you are going out and having some fun tomorrow..I hope you can enjoy it!
Tawnya
Hey Tx! Again, our sitch's mirror eachother. I'm glad you were able to set some boundaries pertaining to the kids being with OW. That was really important to me, too.
Remember, we are still in "don't believe anything you hear" mode with H. He doesn't have to be yelling to still be speaking total bunk, or what sounds to you like being "done". Don't mistake the calmness you heard in his voice with contentment, he probably had a huge cry in his car, just like LE said. No human being could resist that emotion coming from their child. Hugs to you
Tx...I read on another thread that you had a good night and that hub is having a tough time in his little apartment with the kids..GOOD for you..what did you do?
Tawnya
{{{TxMom}}} How ya doing? Playing tennis at all this weekend? I also have the tennis bug so I know exactly how you feel about the game.
Just checking in. Here for you :-)
I am trying to get a place to get tennis lessons too to start playing again..hopefully we'll all be tennis playing hot mammas before ya know it
Tawnya
Hello everyone.. I can't sleep rough day and night yesterday ... long post..
THANKS for all of your encouraging words I will need more after this post... LE... so insightful...
Unforunately I think I've married someone who in the time of crisis has the ability to literally "shut down"... to date the worse pain ever....
He was very grumpy Friday night having the girls at his small 2x4 apartment and told me that evening that "we'll talk Monday but I'm not going to like it"... which he is eluding to wanting to put house up for sell b/c he thinks it will free him up financially so he can afford a bigger place.. this is my guess.
Well we got into some convo last night - I asked him how he feels when our daughter, Ellie, is crying the last three times he leaves and is pulling at him.. he seems so emotionalist.... he said it bothers him but he knows she'll be ok.. that he didn't abandoned her or leave them.. I said she doens't know the difference.
He feels that he sees the girls just as much as I do and eluded that the time with them is plenty..
So I said " if you left here everyday and went to your place and you were not involve with someone else I feel that you'd be so sad and crying a river missing these kids and the times with them" ...
he pauses and says " no I don't think it would change anything"
Me: so you don't miss tucking them in at night, or playing under the covers in the mornings... the couple of days you get are just fine for you?
H: I'm not you and I don't need the same you need...
Who is this guy.... did I have him all wrong.. how could your daughter crying not kill you... so LE I really don't think he gets in is car and crys at all... not kidding.... he seems so numb.
It gets worse... he makes a statement " it's not like I cheated on you 15 times or something " I said your kidding that you think one time or 15 makes the pain any less" ... "you moved out of our house right into her house and you don't see that as pain?"
I did bad DBing I tell you.... I asked him what he was doing... where he thought this was going with OW... did he want more kids?... he said he wouldn't answer this.. I said so you have you guys talked Marriage... " he said it has come up but not like every day" .... he had a work function Saturday night and he took her... he told me that some people know now and his boss is one of them b/c he was at this function. .. I said the other day you told me know one knows... so now other co-workers were at this function and she was with him... so he is bringing her around.. so cat is out of the bag.... I couldn't believe it... I thought his boss would be the one that would talk "since" into him.
I went down stairs.. started crying so hard.. Ellie is upstairs with him crying telling him not to leave.. they come down finally I went in kitchen and said I have one question " when did the A really start?" he said August.. " I said... so you left me for someone you had been with 30 days and moved in with her... so you've been with her 3 months and you are already talking marriage and kids?" I couldn't believe my ears... told him he was not telling me the truth... he said he was... I do believe him..
My H fell for me too very quick.. he is a romantic person and falls quick so it doesn't surprise me to some degree but it does that he has moved in with her... yes he got his own apartment only b/c I told him he needed to start watching the girls there he couldn't keep coming to house...
I feel done... I cried so much last night, couldn't believe that I'm up against that he might marry this women today at least. I know the future could change but I'm kidding myself if I'm waiting for some " bubble to pop" and my H wakes up... I think my heart can't take much more... My pain for my future my fears, how will I provide for my girls, I will have to change jobs so I don't travel sometime next year - I told him that maybe we need to move out of the state for awhile, that I need to detach.... said would he even care if he didn't see his kids for a month or more... of course he says yes he would.. We went in to much more... I told him about he'll need to provide and that I don't care what the courts tell him is required that it will be much more than that....
My friends who know him and us still think something is going on... for him to "shut it off" and not feel and not empathize with me or the kids and how this is hard. He has just snapped and is so done... I know you guys say don't listen to that but I feel now I might need to be done... can I ever honestly trust him if he came back not to just one day again be able to turn "us" off and turn on to someone else again?.... either way he isn't coming back or out of whatever he is going through anytime soon...
I'm hurting and don't know what to do... I'm definitely going to need space this week but I really feel I need to leave town, I want to escape with my girls and just leave for awhile... but I can't do that and I hate it...
God can not let these two people marry,,, I know many of you are in similar sitches... LE you are one.. I haven't gotten there until now and boy it is painful.. How do I protect my girls from future pain??? this hurts so bad..
I'm going to try to go back to sleep.... sorry for long post and thanks for any encouraging words because I will need it and need all of you.....
hurting in Texas!!!!!
Oh {{{{{{{{Tx}}}}}}}}.
I know it's hurting like crazy right now. I know it, felt it, I know it's killing you inside. You hurt for yourself, you hurt for your kids. You hurt for the marriage you once thought you had. You hurt for the future that wasn't meant to be. I know, sweetie. I wish I can take it all away for you. I wish you could take a break. Is there a way for you to get away for awhile, perhaps visit family? Would any friends or family take you in for a week or two so that you could recover a little bit? I was able to stay with my parents and that made the biggest difference.
Tx, you may not want to hear this right now but I am going to be the bad guy and tell you that this pain will eventually subside. I know it's hard to contemplate but it will, sweetie. Gradually, you will feel better and DB will help you do it. I have been exactly where you are now, some days I am still there. But most days now I feel OK and is surviving.
Honey, the more you question him, the more he will dig in his heels. That's why DB suggest we don't talk about R. He may or may not believe his words when he tells you that 'I don't think it would change anything'. What happened this weekend is that he got a full dose of reality living in a one bedroom apartment with the girls and he didn't like the look of it. He had a fantasy in his head that everything would somehow work out but reality in a one bedroom is rough. That's why he is trying to rearrange everything again and hope that maybe another change would THEN make him happier.
You and I know that it won't. It needs to happen within himself. I believe he TRULY misses his girls but the A and his own issues are clouding his judgment. He does feel guilty but guilt is not going to change him. I think our men are frailing about because they are not happy and don't know why. That's why they keep changing everything hoping something would finally click and they can find peace and happiness again.
All we can do is wait, honey and take care of yourself.
Don't ask him anymore R questions even though I know it's tough and you want to protect your kids. He will just make it rough on you. His fantasy life being brought into reality by your little girls and eventhough he loves them he doesn't know how to make it all work out.
You hang in there, OK? You can do this. He is facing reality and he is panicking. Don't you panic as well. Hold your head high, you've done nothing wrong. Believe that you will be OK no matter what. I believe in you.
PM is right. Don't believe any of what you hear!! My H told me the very same words, that he wanted to marry OW, and they don't even live together and see eachother maybe once a week! He said when he sees himself in 10yrs it's with her. I said, 10 years? She'll be in assisted living by then! (ok, not nice but she's 10 yrs older and I had to get a dig into his little fantasy world)
They are in a fog, and you know what he says is total bunk. PM is right, he's thinking another move will make him happier. My H was obsessed with moving for the same reason, so much easier than having to deal with his own issues.
I am so sorry this happened to you this weekend. You are a great person and you don't deserve all this pain. This is not b/c of you. This is HIM!!!
TxMom!!! I'm so sorry you are hurting...it does get easier.
I have a couple of suggestions for you...
1) Have you seen an attorney yet? If not, do so right away for a consultation. I'm not suggesting that you file for D, I'm just saying that being educated on the process, your rights, his responsibilities, etc. will help a lot. I found out that my H would owe more support than I thought. It meant that I might be able to stay in the house afterall. He was not thrilled, but, hey, he made his bed.
Also, remember that he can't marry her until he divorces you. So, he's not marrying her today...I'm sure of that! So, try not to worry about that particular thing right now...a lot can change over the course of the next few months!
2) I've done this and it helped...I actually looked at smaller houses in the area. It helps to see what you can get if you have to sell your house. I know...it sounds horrible, but think of it like an adventure sort of. What cute place could you live in if you didn't have to worry about H? Could you get a great place with a smaller yard that wouldn't require much care? If you can think of it as an adventure for you and the girls, that will help a little.
I'm not suggesting that you push for divorce. I'm just saying that once you know the reality, it may not be as bleak. I found I was imagining the absolute worst about my sitch! Once I found out what was real, I was able to settle down and figure out what I would have to do to make things work. That's a much better place to be...figuring out what you really might have to do rather than worrying about a bunch of things that might or might not have to happen.
Other than that, pray, pray, pray. Unfortunately, everything else is out of your control. Your H is lost. He's confused. I know he sounds sure of himself, but I can't believe he is. They don't go from normal loving parents overnight (or over the course of a few months) to completely non-caring, non-feeling men. That just doesn't happen.
But, if he admits that what he's doing is harming the kids, then he's essentially admitting that he'd have to stop what he's doing to be a good dad. Continuing on this path by definition makes him a bad dad (cause it's hurting the kids). And, bad dad isn't something he wants to be known as right now.
So, try hard not to worry about what he's saying. 99% of it is not true, and you'll never know which 1% might be true anyway! Sorry everyone knows...but, remember that his actions are not a reflection on you but on him. My standard answer to questions from nosy people I don't want to talk to is "H is in a bad place right now, and I'm praying for him. I'd appreciate you praying for him and my family also." That confuses people...they expect you to be ugly. Don't. That will only complicate matters later!
I wish I could tell you how not to hurt. I can't. But, I can say that as a mom, you have to set your feelings aside and focus on those beautiful girls. You will get through this. If you could read the beginnings of everyone's sitch, you'd see we were all crying continuously for a while.
I'm in a better place finally. I'd love to have you join me here. Keep your chin up. Reach inside for that strength you didn't even know you had!!! Try to turn it all over to God and rest in Him!
We'll be here rooting for you and praying for you!
Love to you!
Amy
By the way, I live on the beach in the panhandle of Florida. I'm friends with Tawnya, ST_made_it, and SMW.
Talk to you soon!
Amy
TxMom--I responded over in Infidelity. Just really feeling for you today. Sad you are having such a bad day when you seem to be doing so well overall. It is OK though and completely normal.
this pain will eventually subside.
Hard to believe it right now, but it is true. Also, it is easy to doubt what you are doing when you are surrounded by this mess. Something I gathered from the other thread and didn't think about but it was touched on by someone, are the 180's you can show your H? You have a life, and H can see that. What 180's can you show him that will help you and leave him wondering? These are the out of character things that maybe you have always wanted to try, but haven't? Can you use this time as an opportunity to spread your wings a bit?
Thanks Tawnya, Amy, LE, PM, FR, imLin, ST.. and anybody I missed...
Ok Amy to answer your questions... I have seen an attorney and understand my rights but still not what I expected .. I've told my H this as well that he will need to pay more than the courts will make him pay... I travel for my job and sometime next year I would have to change jobs, probably make less money to get out of sales and not travel as much b/c I can't split my weekends every month and still be gone 6-8 days a month on business trips... this mean I have to buy a car, cell phone .. all my expenses in my business are paid for, company car, cell, internet, etc... so enough on this but it will make all this tough to transition on top of going through a Divorce. but who said life is easy... I've been blessed with a great life and with lots of blessings too over the years..
I have looked for other houses in a few other neighborhoods that my kids will still like and in the school district we are in now.. tough time of year but I feel we'd be able to find something so not extremely worried on this...
LE - good point on te 180's ... I know right when he moved out he noticed my 180's with the kids, acting 'as if' and not questioning him as much on what he is doing with kids etc... just 'trusting' him to make the right decisions.. My H and I both work from home so I moved down in his office (the actual office in the room) and I moved the guest bed stuff into my old office which was a bedroom... so my new baby's room is just hers with no guest bed in it... I noticed when I got home Sunday that he had gone in the guest room because the door was open to see what I had done... so I'm GAL and moving on.. rearranging things in the house...
I'm also trying to plan a trip to Austin or LA to visit friends so when I get that coordinated he'll be surprised I'm sure.. I need to get out of town... my C told me too, try to figure out what the shock factor would be to him, what 180 would get him wondering... the only thing would be if I moved, or started dating, that I could think of... although my friend and I have thought of taking golf lessons and a girls golf league.. my H is a big golfer so he'd notice this too..
anyhow, I feel better today... not talking with him yesterday helped and this week I'm really going to detach... of course he didn't call to talk to our daughter so we'll see when he decides to reach out.
you are all the best!!!!
Yep...I so remember when I couldn't believe that the pain I was feeling was ever ever going to get better...I could not imagine life without H feeling good!...but as everyone says (said) it did start happening...you have to grieve the loss of this marriage...even if you work things out later, this marriage as you know it is over...grieve it...and GAL...this is how you start feeling better...
I wish I still had the email that my H sent me...he was ready to marry the OW even though he only had been with her 2 times!...most of what he knew about her was from her...online!...
I read something the other day about men who have cheated...most information in the past was gathered from women on why their H's cheated...this one was from the H's point...it was very interesting...
Reasons Why Men Cheat
Most didn't cheat for sexual reason...So much for the myth that for men, cheating is all about physical intimacy: Only 8 percent of men said that physical dissatisfaction was the main factor in their infidelity. "Our culture tells us that all men need to be happy is to have physical intimacy with someone," Neuman says. "But men are emotionally driven beings too. They want their wives to show them that they're appreciated, and they want women to understand how hard they're trying to get things right." The problem is that men are less likely than women to express these feelings, so you won't always know when your guy is in need of a little affirmation. "Most men consider it unmanly to ask for a pat on the back, which is why their emotional needs are often overlooked," Neuman says. "But you can create a marital culture of appreciation and thoughtfulness -- and once you set the tone, he's likely to match it."
66% of cheating men report feeling guilt during the affair.
The implications are a little scary: It isn't just uncaring jerks who cheat. In fact, 68 percent of cheaters never dreamed they'd be unfaithful, and almost all of them wished they hadn't done it, Neuman says. Clearly, guilt isn't enough to stop a man from cheating. "Men are good at compartmentalizing feelings," Neuman explains. "They can hold on to their emotions and deal with them later." So even if your partner swears he would never cheat, don't assume it can't happen. It's important for both of you to take steps toward creating the relationship you want.
77% of cheating men have a good friend who cheated.
Hanging around friends who stray makes cheating seem normal and legitimizes it as a possibility. The message he's subconsciously telling himself: "My friend is a good guy who happens to be cheating on his wife. I guess even the best of us do it." You can't simply ban your husband from hanging out with Mr. Wandering Eyes, Neuman says, but you can request that they spend their time together in an environment that offers less temptation, like at a sporting event or a restaurant for lunch rather than at a bar or club. Another strategy: Build your social circle around happily married couples that share your values -- it'll create an environment that supports marriage.40% of cheating men met the other woman at work.
"Oftentimes the woman he cheats with at the office is someone who praises him, looks up to him, and compliments his efforts," Neuman says. "That's another reason why it's so critical that he feel valued at home." Luckily, there's a clear warning sign that your husband is getting a little too cozy with a colleague: If he praises or mentions the name of a female coworker more than he would a male counterpart, your antennae should go up -- and it's time for the two of you to set boundaries about what is and isn't okay at work, Neuman says. Is it acceptable for him to work late if it's only him and her? Can they travel together to conferences? Have dinners out to discuss a project? Ask him what he'd feel comfortable with you doing with a male colleague.
Only 12% of cheating men said their mistress was more physically attractive than their wife.
In other words, a man doesn't stray because he thinks he'll get lucky with a better-looking body."
In most cases, he's cheating to fill an emotional void," Neuman says. "He feels a connection with the other woman, and physical intimacy comes along for the ride." If you're worried about infidelity, focus on making your relationship more loving and connected, not on getting your body just right or mastering how to please him physically. (But know that physical intimacy does matter -- it's one of the key ways your guy expresses his love and feels close to you, so be sure to keep it a priority.)
Only 6% of cheating men had physical intimacy with a woman after meeting her that same day or night.
Actually, 73 percent of men got to know the other woman for more than a month before they cheated. This means that you may have time to see the warning signs before infidelity occurs -- you might even see it coming before he does. Keep an eye out for these common signals: He spends more time away from home, stops asking for physical intimacy, picks fights more frequently, or avoids your calls. Your gut reaction may be to confront him, but most men will deny even thinking about cheating, especially if nothing physical has occurred yet. Instead, Neuman suggests, take charge of what you can control -- your own behavior -- and take the lead in bringing your relationship to a better place. Don't hesitate to show your appreciation for him, prioritize time together, and initiate affection more. Give him a reason to keep you at the front of his mind, Neuman says. And be open about how you feel about what's going on between the two of you (again, without mentioning any third parties). Try "I think we've started to lose something important in our relationship, and I don't want it to disappear." In the meantime, commit to keeping tabs on your relationship and doing what it takes to keep it working for you.
I saw myself in some of this...but I am fortunate...after about 2 years apart and a MLC that lasted nearly 7 years! My H is home and recommitted...
I know the BIG issue for many here is HOW do you EVER trust them again...it does take time...but actions do speak louder then words...I can tell you that I just know my H isn't in that state of mind anymore...am I 100% positive it will NEVER happen again...I won't be that stupid...I don't think you can ever be 100% sure of anything...but right now I am sure that he is being faithful and truthful with me...and I am doing a lot of the right things now to affair proof our marriage...I do what I can to make him feel good about being with me...and I am reaping the rewards...bottom line...he didn't marry the OW...she is out of his life for good...no matter how much he tried to convince me how deep their relationship was...how in love they were...how perfect she was...the proof is here and now...
And...even if H had not come home...I would be leading a happy life with my 3 kids...I would be surrounded by my best friends...ones that love me...it would be great!...I was not counting on my H's return to get happy...I became happy...and content with my life...and you can too
Lin
thanks imLIN,,,
I had read Newmans book too.... nice reminder so thanks for typing all this up again.
Yeah I know for my H it is emotional needs that he wasn't getting (remember pregnant and just had baby) hard to focus on H as much during this time ... but I do believe it has a lot more to do with the straying spouse and his own issues, not loving himself,etc... than it is about what he didn't get from marriage and throw a possible MLC or depression in the mix... but definitely think you can take steps to affair proof your marriage... hind sight 20/20 right..
We hung out with all married couples and all or most of all of his friends are married too... but he met this girl through work and my H's line of business puts him situations that could be dangerous if vulerable... and sure enough.
Today I really feel good and moving on.. I will continue to grieve my old husband and our relationship and future we won't have.... and to your point if he comes back, and is saved by the good lord, then we'll see but definitely not counting on it.. I will stop all talks - I hope at least - of OW and R because it only hurts that he has moved on so quick in his mind...
I feel like I might need to move on toward filing to protect me and kids... although I'm praying about it and going to sit on it this week.. but I want to be protected financially and he is starting to spend quite a bit.
I don't know about the law in TX but here in Ca you can file for a legal seperation to protect from the financial aspects of seperated spouses actions...that is what I did and I am very glad I did as he ran up over 200K in debt!!!...yep, you read that number correctly! Now if he files Bankruptcy he will owe the IRS taxes on that money because they view it as income if you don't repay it!!!...his problem, not mine
MLC is a very odd thing...never believed in it until I saw my H get into it...and he went full steam ahead once it got rolling with the EA turned PA...personally I think they have to run as fast as they can to keep up with themselves and not look back...not see or feel the path of distruction that they are leaving...my H told me he raised the girls and laid a good foundation for our son so they would all be fine without him!!!
The worst day after the bomb was the one when "I" had to tell the kids that their dad snuck out in the middle of the night because he couldn't face them...
So my point is as bad as all of this seems...and as lost as your H is right now...and as "things appear" to you...it really isn't over yet...his moving on...is running from reality but like the tortoise and the hair...reality has a way of catching up with the fantasy...slowly but surely...that is when you will know what your H is really made of...until then just be you...focus on the kids...work on yourself...self improvement is the best emotional boost you can give yourself and your children...
Lin
TxMom--Glad you are doing better today. I think we have awful days to make us appreciate the better ones when they come. Regarding 180's and the golf thing, is that something you've wanted to do, or is it just a ploy to get H thinking? The dating thing scares me to death, I am not ready to go to that extreme. Is that something you are considering? Would H see that as you moving on or a threat? I'm sure that has been rolling around in your mind? I'm kind of surprised C would mention that, but they are the professionals. Keep up the PMA!
I forgot to add...your comment about
but I do believe it has a lot more to do with the straying spouse and his own issues, not loving himself,etc... than it is about what he didn't get from marriage and throw a possible MLC or depression in the mix
is in the same line as what I was dealing with...but remember, if they are truly in a MLC with their own issues they are going to be looking even more for those emotional boosts...
I hope you are not getting down on yourself for not meeting those emotional needs...most women totally understand that when you have children you are spread pretty thin...and it is not uncommon for this to happen...and absolutely no excuse for an affair!!!
I know for my H it was a lot of undealt with childhood issues ( I used to think this was all bunk too...again, until I saw first hand what it did to my H)...and I also have noticed the more severe the childhood issues...the more severe the MLC seems to be...
Lin
Hi TxMom: I read your thread, or pieces of it, on the suggestion of a friend of mine who peruses the board.
First, I am a paralegal in El Paso, Texas, and although I cannot offer legal advice, I can quote the law, so if you have questions, please feel free to ask.
Second, I didn't read all of your thread, but wanted to ask...
Ever heard of a Midlife Crisis? Sounds like your H. My H is doing the same thing right now, and although I am not seasoned at it yet, I can offer some things I have learned from others who are, if you would like.
Until then, I have one question. Can you forgive your H for the PA?
Thanks for jumping in Lola..
LE - my C didn't say for me to date at all she just asked me what could I do that would shock him, what 180... I said if he saw me dating someone... and no I don't want to date.. but at times I do feel like I wish I had a friend to hang with.. but I have no emotion to give.
Lola, I think it is hard to say if I could forgive H... I really believed I could but what I struggle with is his abandonement and just up and leaving without trying to work on it...that would be my fear and my struggle over the affair itself... I really think my H is struggling so the affair is somewhat minor in comparsion to the choices he's made since exposure, what he has done to the kids, etc... but I also don't believe he'll come back anytime soon - if ever.. only time will tell.
imLIN - in tx there is no legal separation... only way to protect is to file a motion... and I'm with you I do struggle with titles... like MLC and what is it really? do we just put a name to something to make us feel better? It is easier for me to copy knowning that this all might be called something like MLC...
Like LE has learned... through crisis you really really take a good look at who you've been married too and there are some charactertics that not sure my H would get help on to ever make this work... or want to look at himself... childhood issues too...
I also have moments where I feel I'm done in my heart... especially now that people through their work and mutual friends are finding out I feel my pride standing up and not sure when everyone knows that I could take him back..without God literally saving him and performing a miracle... once again it would be just that a miracle that would bring him back...
I'm sure in another day I'll be sad or grieving again but I do like my good days and the feel good - not being angry or sad.. nice place to be today.... although my H hasn't called to check on the kids the last two days which isn't normal but what do you do...
thanks as always for posting... Lola do you have a post? fill us in and any advice you have regarding MLC is always welcomed... sorry you are here too...
TxMom, his "new love" high is probably wearing off soon. He will see what he has and what he lost. 90% of these type of affairs don't make it. It is hard but this is the time to work on yourself...become the "other woman." Enjoy your time for you.
TxMom you can find me in separated, but I don't post very often anymore on my own thread. Just when there is an update...
The first sign of an MLC begins with the spouse almost changing overnight. One day (or hour for that matter) you have this wonderful, loving spouse, and the next minute all of a sudden they are telling you your whole relationship has been a sham.
From what I have read, and remember I am new at MLC, it takes a long time, and A LOT of patience and forgiveness. Only you can decide whether you can weather the storm.
LE - my C didn't say for me to date at all she just asked me what could I do that would shock him, what 180... I said if he saw me dating someone... and no I don't want to date.. but at times I do feel like I wish I had a friend to hang with.. but I have no emotion to give.
Yeah I was incorrect in my post. I like the interaction I have here because it is a safe spot to get a woman's perspective. As far as a real life relationship or dating that freaks me out.
TxMom,
Hey! I hope all's well with you this morning. Things here are moving along. It's not so sunny here in FL today, hope the weather clears up. The Blue Angels are flying here this weekend, and S6 is certain his dad is taking him to the show! I so don't want them to be disappointed...they have the cutest smiles. Except when they are posing for pictures for me to upload onto the web. Then, my oldest makes a horrible face!
I hope you will continue to pursue some outside interests. I've made some great new friends...from all over the country. I've learned a lot about all kinds of things like Rainey weather in Kentucky and the Avon walk in Dallas. I have a friend who lives in Dalls...and did the Avon walk this weekend. Paula said it was so inspiring! Maybe we should sign up next year!
Just keep praying!! We'll get to a better place!
Amy
but it wasn't Rainey when the Georgia Bulldogs played the University of Kentucky last weekend.
LOL you guys, I am with so many of you on all that!
So, MC, since you've been helping in my search, how did I do? Do you think there's any hope of me being found?
I threw out some clues on my thread, Amy. It may help her find us.
SMW
You are one sneaky bunch!
Who us??? Nah! just creative.
SMW
LOL if you can find MC you can find me amy and laura are on mine too!!
who's sneaky?? that would be you le trying to hide from me lol!
OK then! You all are one creative bunch.
I did that and it took me to the opposite dot com. hmmmmmmm
So, LE, what's that symbol you do (above post)? I'm just learning some of this computer stuff, and I can't figure out how you make it or what it means either one!!!
/\ Do you mean that? It is the forward slash and back slash together. It is the symbol to show that you have nothing new added just looking for views and responses of advice and support, just a bump to push it up
oh man you are just so wrong!! I see that symbol alot, either I miss what you change, OR I know I see it and think I am crazy lol!!
Yea...that's what I meant. Thanks for clearing that up. I thought it was supposed to mean something! I sometimes miss the acronyms on here...I have to use the definitions list often. I thought that was one I had missed!
Amy
Amy i have a way to contact him, will get it to you sis! love you
TxMom--Sorry for all the hijacking.
Well I'm mad I missed out on all the fun today on my thread- looks like some people are not working... and you are all being very sneaky.... I'm going to search for clues... I told Amy on her thread my full name so she should fine me...
Amy - I have friends who did the Avon walk this weekend too... lets sign up next year..
When do you leave for SA??? I wish I could get down there ... maybe I'll see if I can make it work - are you coming with friends? ... where are you staying????
I can't find you...we've all looked. Go to SMW's thread and see her note!
I get into SA on Friday evening, and I return on Monday afternoon. I think we are staying by the airport. We didn't get the hotel reservations in time. There are 30,000 people in the race!!! CRAZY!!!
Talk to you soon, I hope!
Amy
Hello all.... I haven't updated this thread in awhile as I seem to post on infidelity more.... I have this same post there too... I seem to get different peoples responses on each one...
Sunday evening and I'm watching my Cowboys tonight... love them!!! hope we pull out a win!
Well H has been around all weekend off and on. I cried it seemed most the day (off and on) Saturday- not in front of him... just been so sad actually and missing the guy I married and have loved for almost 10yrs.
We all went to lunch on Saturday and after I agreed I questioned why I let him... I was so sad afterwards.. I feel like saying to him.. what was so bad about this?? We laugh, he plays with our 6 month old making her laugh and all seems normal for a moment in time. I look at his face or hands and just want to kiss his cheeks or grab his hand... He keep the girls at his place Saturday night and I went out with a friend...
I woke up today and felt so much better and in a great mood, no tears today, went to this new church I'm going to now, had to go shop for a bit and then came home. H was here with the girls and I was in the bedroom with D4 wrapping 3 b-day gifts and H and our 6month old were laying on the bed.. He was playing with both daughters. I don't really give him much attention but I make sure to be happy, make comments to my daughter about stuff.. my D4 and I baked cookies before the b-day party we had to go too... so today at least there was no "faking it" for me I was just my happy self, I was just enjoying my girls and the things I had to get done around the house.. so H saw a very fun, pleasant wife... I was only here about 3 hours when H was here....
My question is, guys opinion and anyone who has called a DB coach, I constantly struggle with how much do I let him around... he is cake eating to a degree BUT him being here with my girls helps me and I get to be around them.. I struggle not seeing them (remember I travel for my job too so not like I'm home all the time during the week) When he has the girls overnight he keeps them at his apartment... but during the day or when I travel for work he stays at the house.
Should I start enforcing him to keep girls at his place during the week, during the day time too? Some of you have always said if he wants to come around, have lunch etc. let him the more opportunity to see me in a positive light and not be with OW... but I also think it really just helps him, he gets the best of both worlds.. sometimes I care and don't want him around and sometimes like this weekend it was easy for me and I wasn't bothered with him being here...
I really don't think either way is going to make him change his mind...today at least... I think Phoneix said on Amy's thread that a man needs a chase.... stop being so nice, play hard to get, don't make it easy for him... but my H has the OW so far up his A$$ that he wouldn't notice or care to "chase" me right now... not sure.. Puppy usually has great advise too on this...
so thoughts..... have him around and play nice, cheerful, etc.. or be short, pleasant but distant and not see him or deal with him much... once again my moods change so much I go back and forth on this.... help!!!
_________________________
TX--
Don't hold your breath on that win.
SMW
TxMom--You asked how to do this a couple of times here is the trick.
How to write code to link to previous threads:["url=http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...rue#Post1599987]Tx Mom's First Thread in Newcomers
[/url"] Remove the red " marks and you will get a hyperlinked text line that looks like this: Tx Mom's First Thread in NewcomersEasier still is to use the "Reply" box instead of the "Quick Reply" and you'll have access to the icons to make it easy. Click on the Icon with the Globe/Infinity symbol at the top of the text box. It is next to the envelope for creating an e-mail link. You might get an information box pop up at the top of the view window asking you to confirm that you want to allow the IE plugin to run. That is if you are using IE. Mozilla, I can't say what happens. In the first window paste the address you want to link to and in the second window write the text you want to appear. Here I used "TxMom's First Thread in Newcomers." Any questions post 'em on my thread.
LE
TxMom!!! Sorry you had a tough day on Saturday, but good recovery on Sunday!!! Just stay tough. Everyone is different on the amount of contact. I had way too much at first, and right now, I'm not interested in having any. So, you just have to do what's right for you sitch. But, many, many, many people here will tell you that numerous spouses have starting coming around more once the rope was dropped. And, I don't believe you can "drop the rope" if he's hanging out at the house all the time...I know I couldn't!
I've also figured out that no H will "chase" as long as there's an OW involved. All their energy is being put into chasing her. So, don't worry so much about him and his reaction. Do what's best for you. If you like having him around and it helps with the kids, then do it. If it makes you sad, then don't!
That's just my $0.02!
I don't know if I want to do a whole marathon...but, I'm definitely planning more 1/2's! The weekend was a blast!!!
Love you!
Amy
THanks LE and Amy,
Well you nailed it... sometimes I'm ok with it some days I'm not and I act accordingly.... I am going to start droping it more... I have really gotten two rules here.... some say distance yourself, not dark just not welcoming either.... some say the more H is around us and kids less time around OW and more time to see us in good light and OW to start to nag or not like it.. but bottom line I need to do what I'm comfortable with ..... I'm setting boundries, just not doing it all at once.... when I travel during week he stays here but I think I will start having that change.. we have a dog though so it makes it harder as he can't take the dog with him - no pets at his place.... and I'm not here then ... I'm going to start having some of his stuff packed each time he comes over too.... a bag here and bag there...
Also I will start with a half marathon... not a full are you kidding.... I'm going to start running 5k again I think first.. baby steps.
Hi {{{Tx}}}
I am sorry Saturday was tough but sounds like you pulled yourself together for Sunday.
Here is my two cents. Yes, do what is comfortable for you. Since you were truly happy on Sunday, which is your aim, right, then let him hang around and see the contented Tx, not only in the wife/mother context but as an attractive woman context as well!! Don't get me wrong but I think H might be continually seeing you as a boring old mom/wife and that's part of the reason why the 25 y.o. look so darn good. This is the dose of what he could be missing if he COMPLETED left you guys. I see your H is still half-undecided so you still got a chance.
So have him around when you are happy.
When you are not up for it and is feeling sad/down then just say you have plans for the day (eventhough you may not) and walk out the door! Go see a movie, gym, see a friend, whatever and take yourself away. Let him deal with the girls. He is also the parent, remember! Don't walk out in a mean way, walk out with a big smile on your face and look like you have something REALLY exciting planned that you can't wait to go to. This will be your 180 and he will wonder what you are up to. This is where you will get his curiosity going and he may or may not want to go on the chase. Make sure you look like a million bucks when you walk out that door, almost as if you are going on a date! Not only will looking good make you feel better about yourself but he will associate you look good and leaving him to deal with the girls and think, 'What did I do? This great looking, happy, confident woman is walking out the door without me. Did I make the right choice?' Now, this won't happen after just once. It will take time but you want him to associate you in a different way.
Our guys have convinced themselves that we are awful to live with and they feel justified in doing what they have done. Our job now is to make them second-guess themselves. Once their hormones for OW have died down, we Still want them to want us. They wanted us before enough to marry us! Don't forget that!
TX, this is what I say to myself everyday. Our H fell in love with us when they were sane, happy beings who were in their right minds. Enough to put a ring on our finger in front of the whole world. Enough to have babies with. But H fell in love with OW when they were out of their minds!
I read somewhere this quote, 'Patience is genius. Be a genius.'
thanks Amy, SS, PM, imLin, everyone...
Journeling....
how can I only seem to make it 2 days truely happy and in a good mood and come today, day three, I'm so sad. I work with so many men and most of them older.. and they have all seemed to stay married and seem to be happy. They tell me stories of their wives, and I think to myself, gosh they seem fine and put up with their cr@p.... I'm not half that bad and my H had to run into the first available warm arms....
Then I have the thought that my H came to me when our baby was 3 months old and told me he wasn't happy and there was OW.... what kind of person does this? Then I get so angry that I'm pi$$ed that i've even given him time of day or ever said a nice word to him.... how can a true man abandon his wife and baby at a time when I needed him most?
How is it possible for me to miss him so much and want him back and then hate that I would even consider it for what he has done.... I'm just so sad and mad.... My C wants me to consider getting on anti-depressants b/c my emotions are so up and down. I'm thinking about it not sure..
I just want to feel better,,, I don't want to say I'm D, I want my H back but question if DB really is going to do any good and it is so hard when I'm so hurt.
arruuuggghhhh - going to bed back on tomorrow .... praying for everyone.
xoxo
Pray for you and your H!!! I am!! ((((TxMom))))
That's the roller coaster ride for you...up, up, up, down, up, down, down, down, swerve left, swerve right, etc., etc., etc.!
Take it one minute at a time.
Okay...so, you need something else to focus on...what 1/2 do you want to do next year? I'm planning...the 1/2 in my hometown in February; the 1/2 Princess run in Disneyworld in March, and the 1/2 in Disneyland in September. Would love for you to join me for one or all of them.
This weekend's trip to San Antonio was one of the things that has done wonders for me. I met a new friend this weekend. A really great woman who's going through a D...she's having a tough go of it too. I said to myself, "Wow. She's super. Her husband's an idiot for letting her go." But, you know what I realized, when I looked at myself through her eyes, I'm a really great woman too! I reached out to a total stranger and offered a car ride that led to a weekend of fun adventures and plans for future fun adventures and bonding that can only come from sharing together in times of crisis.
You too are a great woman! Once you can figure out how to stop looking at yourself through only your H's (currently blurry) eyes, you'll be able to see what I see! And, that, TxMom will be liberating!!!
Just hang in there...keep praying. It's truly the best remedy for all hurts!
Love you!
Amy
{{{{Tx}}}}, Amy is SOOOOO right!! You too are a great woman. Her comment 'Once you can figure out how to stop looking at yourself through only your H's (currently blurry) eyes, you'll be able to see what I see!' VERY INSIGHTFUL!
H is in the blame-game at the moment so he doesn't feel like a jerk for abandoning you and the kids.
It's easier to blame you than to look into himself and examine why your R fell apart for him.
It's laziness, a shortcut.
Don't do the same yourself. You take a good look at yourself. Don't believe EVERYTHING he says. Yes, you had problems. Yes, the marriage isn't perfect. But what relationship is? You KNOW you were not unreasonable. You KNOW you were a good wife. You didn't cheat, do drugs, have a gambling problem, were abusive to H or kids, were you? If not, then he has NO EXCUSE for his behavior. Period.
Like Amy said, H has blurry eyes. That's why DB suggests GAL, taking care of yourself and taking your focus off H. Then you will gain some peace and won't have to go on medication. Are you moody when you're not thinking about H and OW? Are you moody around other people? If not, then the problem is not about chemical imbalance, your problem is that you have a jerk for a H (sorry for being so blunt). Sorry, sorry. I am not saying you should give up or M or not. Just take a timeout from his antics and nurse yourself.
I promise, once you detach, you will feel a WHOLE lot better. Do what pleases you. Write a list of all the things you want to do but haven't tried, is it skydiving, singing lessons,kickboxing, salsa dancing? When I was at your stage, I took up knitting. It was great! Why? I didn't have to concentrate too hard, it was very therapeutic and kind of like meditation, slowed my heart-rate because of its repetitive nature. And I got these wondeful gifts for friends and family! Now, I don't need to knit anymore because I found that peace within myself most of the time. This will happen for you too. It just takes a little time. Be patient with yourself.
YOU are the most important person in the world! You are a GOOD PERSON. You are kind, caring and giving. You know that.
HI everyone,
boy it has been awhile since I posted on newcomers.
I guess when I don't feel the need to post every detail maybe I'm getting through the hard days a little easier.. not sure ... I think it is just to exhausting to post all the time.
Question-
My H asked me to go to lunch thursday to talk... said he hasn't been a good communicator and wanted to cover off schedules etc... (he has to date never asked me to lunch) I asked him what else he wanted to talk about? Was he going to give me D papers... he said NO.... we changed to meet Thursday at 5pm now and having our Nanny stay and watch the girls little late tomorrow.... I'm little nervous.....
I'm in this place where I feel I'm obsessing now about H and OW and I haven't done this until recently - last few weeks.. I can't shut my mind off now and I'm having dreams of him.
I feel I could probably never move passed everything he is done but I don't know how to make the pain go away... He is moving so fast with her.... going to her home town last weekend .... still picking her over his kids....
I know what you are thinking "take the focus off of H and OW" I really just don't want to see or talk to him EVER.... how can I stop seeing or talking to him when we have babies?? I feel overwhelming need to want answers from him .... something to help my healing process.. not sure he could really give me this anyhow...
Gosh the pain is unreal somedays....
Hi {{{TxMom}}} Your thread in Infidelity locked so I wanted to answer it here. I hope you find it in time.
If he brings up anything you don't want to hear at lunch or that you are not ready to face yet, just say, 'Thanks for sharing your thoughts with me, I will need time to think this over.'
There's no rule that we have to agree and do everything they say. So honey, stall! Your DB coach is right, act 'as if' you're on a date. Be the best, prettiest, most charming self. Use that as a weapon to disarm him. And if he got the guts to drop another bomb, stall stall stall. Then act as if what he said is no big deal. Don't do the begging, crying, pleading thing again this time (180).
We are here for you. I know you are real nervous about this talk. He might want a D, but you know what, he can't get it in a week. So there really is no hurry for you to do anything. Just take your time and think things over.
If, on the other hand, he just wants to talk about schedule, then just do that and have some good food and enjoy yourself.
Don't panic yet. Keep your cool. Don't excessively worry about what may be the worse case scenerio. Better yet, how about you write yourself a list of the worse case scenerio for Thursday. Say, he serves you papers, then write down what you are going to do. Or he asks for the babies for Christmas and then write what you would say. Plan ahead so you don't get caught off-guard.
Then say to yourself, OK, if that is the worse case scenerio, and it's likely it won't happen, then you might feel a bit more calm. I know I'd feel better if I had a plan in hand. Just like a business meeting. Good luck!
TxMom, one of the DB coaches pointed me to a website that has some good articles on infidelity and healing. The website is
http://www.beyondaffairs.comI agree with PosMom. For anything he says just validate. If he says "The sky is green." "You say I understand you think the sky is green. I will need to think about the sky."
One other thing...he will be as nervous as you. In fact look for that...When he begins to discus what he wants to talk about...does he move too fast, movements too controlled, shaky hands, problems with voice, sweaty palms. If he is unsure of what he wants it will show in these non verbal clues. For instance if he begins to mirror you, he may be attracted to you or wants to agree with you.
No matter what...do just what PosMom said, "act 'as if' you're on a date. Be the best, prettiest, most charming self."
Also remember that nothing is ever decided in a single meeting. This one sounds like it is one where he wants to give you a list of demands. Take whatever he wants and tell him you will think about it and give him an answer in whatever time frame you want. You can decide when to have the next meeting and you can set the next agenda.
One last thought...think about what you need from him. Bomb him back if need be...but do it with a smile.
JWM, Good job on the non-verbal clues! I will definitely look for those? Any other good tips for non-verbals?
Yeah,
My H will bite his lip and can't stand still or wants to walk away when he is uncomfortable... he does it all the time .. and won't make eye contact...
I switched the lunch to us meeting in the evening thought it would be more relaxed and I will need a drink in my hand. I really didn't want to do lunch... so we'll see... I'm not too nervous but I never thought of just recognizing his request and telling him I'll get back to you on that... I usually would answer or give my opinion....
It is going to be hard to play the "date" attitude b/c I'm really emoitonally hurt and don't feel like I even want him anymore... I"m finding it difficult to even look at him without feeling angry or sad for what he has done... I also am in that place of wanting answers from him.... I meet with my C Thursday at 1pm that is why I pushed my H back to after that so I can discuss with her some tactics...
I didn't talk to DB coach but Hope on my other thread said her coach recommended treating it like a date....
good input and I will make a list of what he might request and be prepared ...
OH and JWM I have been to
http://www.beyondaffairs.com they have a local group that I actually attended the meeting this past Monday night.....
thanks for that info just in case I hadn't heard of it.
TxMom, I'm down in Austin and we don't have a group here.
Regarding the non-verbals, you probably already know what they are as you said. Just be open to seeing them. If you are well prepared emotionally, you can play him like a violin...I'm a guy...I know how you women are. ;-)
TxMom!!! Just wanted to say, "hello." You've already gotten great advice here. Just focus on following it!!! I'll be sending up prayers for your meeting.
Hugs to you!
Amy
My H will bite his lip and can't stand still or wants to walk away when he is uncomfortable... he does it all the time .. and won't make eye contact...
So you can pick up on this cue, how can you use it to your advantage? If you acknowledge that H is uncomfortable, and he is, then he knows you are concerned about him.
I never thought of just recognizing his request and telling him I'll get back to you on that... I usually would answer or give my opinion....
Good chance to 180 here and show H you respect his requests and want to give it a sincere answer. Also, keeps you from taking the bait or getting emotional within the situation. Removes H's ability to control. If that is new ground for him, that is a good place for you. Show's H that TxMom has changed and it isn't business as usual.
I also am in that place of wanting answers from him....
No expectations here! You've done this in the past, and it didn't work!
Prepare for the worst and hope for the best! If he brings you D papers, he is expecting you to get emotional and break down. If you don't and are just pleasant and cut the meeting short, what is he going to think? Don't get mad, or cry, just say something like "I'm sorry that you think this is the answer, I disagree, but I will give you what you want." Look at what is going on with me. W filed in August and last week postponed it! Just because D has been filed doesn't mean as much as when D is final!
JWM - you have to elaborate... not sure how i'd play his non-verbal ques to my advantage... although LE had good suggestion to acknowledge it and show my concern.
I don't think I'll get papers b/c I asked him that .. but he could tell me he is going to file soon or something to that effect.
I think I'm going to be prepared to not answer anything.. acknowledge his request and anything that I'm unsure of I'll just say " can I get back to you on that, or I'll think about that" .. my H isn't controling so letting him feel in control and me just a pleasant listener and not overly communicative will be 180.. I would normally ask a lot of questions or make a bigger converstation out of nothing... talk less listen more...
I want to bring up our 4 yr old... she had a melt down today when he left... she is feeling so insecure and crying all the time when he leaves... so hard for me to understand that he must have been that miserable to not come back and try when his 4 yr old is calling him and hanging on him.. I know this eats at him and is what makes him cry...he cried thanksgiving night when she started crying then too... I know DB says not to go there but I think for my H if I go there some in regards to the kids it makes him have to feel and acknowledge what he has done.... he is a stuffer and pushes these tough feelings down when not confronted with it he can turn it off .... I'm going to ask my C tomorrow about this.
thanks everyone...
TxMom!!! IMO, it's best not to bring up the kids unless he wants to discuss D's melt down. Don't make him feel like you are blaming him. That will only make him defensive...and that's not what you need here!
I'll be rooting and praying for you tomorrow afternoon.
Hugs to you!!!
Amy
I agree with Amy M. Your H knows he's stuffing up big time with your D4. Pointing it out to him makes YOU the bad guy in his eyes. Remember, he's comparing OW, who is making him feel like a MAN, feel good and forget his troubles. And he's got you on the otherhand, giving him the guilt trip, reminding him of his faults and his inadequacies as a Dad. Who is he going to choose???
{{{TxMom}}} I know as a Mom, you want to protect your little ones. It's so natural and ingrained that you do it naturally and you will fight with your teeth to not let them get hurt. Could you maybe look at it from another point of view? If you can get H to stay with you for good, wouldn't that be the best thing for your kids? So if the situation now is for you to keep the expectations to yourself and not complain, couldn't you do that in the best interest of D4? I know it's counterintuitive. But I think that's what Amy M and I are saying.
Stay on his good side now. There will be times when you can both work out your issues later. Work smart against OW. Don't be the whining one in this triangle anymore. Let OW be the one whinging about his time, his devotion to D4 and his reluctance to file.
OK... need prayers.. I'm leaving my house in 40 mins.. meeting a mexican resturant down the street to have a strong margarita and appetizers about 5pm .....
I wasn't nervous and he seems fine on the phone
Prayers going up!!! You can do this...you are an incredible woman!!!
Amy
Good luck! Referring back to the old Mad magazine, do you have plenty of snappy answers for stupid questions? Or better yet, have the "You know, that is a question I would like to think about for a bit, I'll get back to you with an answer." If he presses for an answer he is trying to wrestle control from you. If he is uncomfortable, you are in control. That is where you want to be. Remember, this is a business meeting and you are leaving your emotions in the car. They will be waiting for you when you come back. Good luck, off to say a prayer!
LE
{{{Tx}}} Let us know how it goes and YOU CAN DO IT!!
Tawnya
{{Tx}} How ARE You today my friend?
Tawnya
Okay...we are all waiting to hear from you!!!
(((((TxMom)))))!
I hope things went okay yesterday. Update us when you can.
Love ya!
Amy
I couldn't manage to get on yesterday and I'm off to run errans for my daughters birthday party today.. I will be on tomorrow and update... it went ok mainly scheduling talk and I didnt' say much and he noticed and made a comment about it... I told him I'd think about Christmas and let him know. He brought up D and then started saying how sorry he was about everything and that is when the tears started coming on ...we were both crying by the end of it all ... very sad...
more later
thanks to everyone
Aww {{{TX}}} Well I'm glad it wasn't too bad..and probably not as bad as you thought it would be
Have fun with your errands and your daughter's party!
Tawnya
OK.... here we go
Thursday night talk was emotional and yes tears for both of us... he mentioned that he does think of us and miss all of us.... what is sad and I feel the bottom line is it isn't enough for him to come back... right now... he is in the thick of this OW and frankly someone who can suffer himself but still pick the OW and himself more times than not over seeing his kids (and I go back to this is a man who would have rather been home with the family than "guy" time most the time) I dont' think I want him back. I think this is says something about his character that you can't change...
So this weekend was the first weekend I asked him to watch the girls both nights (knowing I'd see them yesterday for 5 hours due to D4 bday party) and both mornings were so hard... so this morning I call D4 while talking to her we both saying we miss each other and ILY's - H gets on phone and I just said you don't understand how hard this is for me... he says I know it must be.. we get into convo again as he wants to drop kids off early b/c of Cowboy game and he needs to drop car off at dealership... I tell him I have several hours of stuff to do so I'd call him and let him know. so Thursday he is emotional and sad.. today he is cold and mean... he could care less and I know it's because he has been with the babies all weekend and probably can't wait to get to OW house. He just stated that he is never coming back to our marriage, that he thinks we are two different people, the confrontation or conflicts we had are not changable or fixable.. I told him I never had a fighting chance, that he focuses on all the negatives about our marriage and not looking at any positives....
So I am no good at DBing... but I haven't really wanted to b/c there are somethings I needed to say for myself to heal.. Thursday was good and today was convo I wish we didn't get into. For H to think of himself before his kids is amazing and this is a man who lived with me very unselfish and would do anything to accomodate us and our family before his own needs... but maybe he has snapped and had enough.
New boundries, I packed some of his clothes today and have them by the door, told him I'd like him to get the remaining things out. He will also not be staying at this house while I travel for business anymore.. two kids and dog will have to go to his apt from now on as that is how it would be if and when Divorced.
I will go dark or semi dark.. no more questions (although I've said it before) I almost feel like filing for D myself but told him if this is what he wants he'll have to file. '
I just don't know how I'm going to get through the weekends with out my babies and the co-parenting will be another challenge in and of itself... being without my kids is truely the hardest thing of all of this... so not fair to them.
{{Tx}} All I can say is WOW..thru all of that, in all honesty, you sound at a GOOD place, if that makes sense, totally detaching and setting your boundaries..and I think that's great about the kids and the dog having to go somewhere else..welcome to reality "dear hub"..
I think you DB well enough but there are times when things need to be said and times when they don't..and it sounds like those happened for you
Have you worked on having more stuff to do when it's weekends without the babies?? I can't imagine how tough it is for you to do that and I know, if it were me, I'd have to try to occupy my time, at least until I went "hey..I can take a long bath and no one will be knocking on the door yelling for mom"
Tawnya
Tx Mom,
While I am not going to sit here and say everything will turn out the way you want in your marriage, I do want to say something to you.
My H always put us first too. He was a great dad. Then I noticed changes in his patience level with all of us. Whatever the reason for all this doesn't really play into what I want to tell you.
I had the same thoughts as you ...once seperated my husband seemed to not care a lot about the kids at all either. I couldn't believe it. Hurt me but don't hurt my kids you know. At first, he wouldn't take them to his place but eventually I wouldn't let him stay here with them either. You can read back into some of my post as to how things started changing (not immediatley) once I started this " this is how divorce looks". Now, some of that pi@@ed him off really bad. Like I changed the garage code so he didn't have access to "his" boat. Hmm thought it was ours but whatever.... All I asked of him was to give me a few hours notice and I will make sure he has access...well he must have thought I was all talk because the first time he went to the garage to get it and couldnt' get in....I got an ear full.
"Your holding my boat hostage, blah, blah blah." I was calm and restated my boundaries and told him if he wanted me to have access to his apartment and give me a key I would be happy to give him his key back and change the code back. Well, please I really think that was the first time he really got it. It's not his house anymore. ( He was paying for everything still and never threw that in my face). I said why do you deserve privacy and I don't. Look of shock on his face was priceless.
Anyway, I diverted from my original thought as usual. I was trying to say even though this H of yours seems like someone you've never known...there is hope there. My alien H was delivered from the mother ship and although it shocked me that he did want to come back to the marriage. I just wanted you to know it's possible. My H's OW was younger too.
TxMom!!
Hugs to you!!!! I'm glad to hear your update...I've had you in my heart.
You do sound pretty good considering!! And, you knew to expect the cold tone after the discussion on Thursday. That's just the way it works!
I agree with Tawnya...you just have to stay busy. I've been without my boys every other weekend since August 1. And, I believe that last night was the first weekend night that I was totally alone. And, I was cool with it!!! In fact, I took that long bath that Tawnya mentioned, I read a trashy novel, and I went to bed early! And, I really enjoyed the time alone!! So, until you get there, make as many plans as you can!
And, while there is always a chance your H (and mine for that matter) will wake up and see how foolish they've been, there's a chance that you (and I) won't be interested anymore by then too! I think that's okay! I saw H twice the weekend, and I honestly didn't like him either time. I told someone today, if I'd just met him, I wouldn't consider dating him!!! Maybe that's part of detaching!!
Love to you, TxMom!!!
Amy
Sandycay - where are your post?? under newcomers?
thanks for the insight... I think my hesitation with my little ladies has made this too easy on him... so it is all about to change... needs to see "how divorce is going to feel" attitude... I hope I can keep up how I feel today this whole week... the so "i don't care attitude" right now.
Amy - I second that ... being with H yesterday and seeing him today I didn't have one bit of " i want or miss you" thoughts..
sorry I've been so bad about checking everyone elses threads out.. been away from DB last week and not needing it as much either.. but busy time of year.
catch up tomorrow on everyone.
thanks as always for the support
{{TxMom}} I am so sorry to hear that you H is talking about D again.
Don't be so hard on yourself. Sometimes we have to do what we HAVE to do but you know what, if it is not working, if your R is getting worse, then you know that you have to mix things up a little and do things a little differently. You said your C said that it was OK to talk about your feelings. My C said the same thing but I just KNEW that my H would get defensive, put up walls and see it as pursuing and pressure for him to conform. I KNEW that it wouldn't work eventhough with all my heart I wanted to let him know what I feel. So I told C that I don't think it would work and I listened to my DB coach instead. And things have gotten a little better. So it was working.
Why do something again and again if it's not working?? You are a supersmart lady. It seems like every time you told him your deepest fears, concerns and love, he cries, then withdraws and then he talks about D. It has happened several times now. In 'Surviving an Affair' and DB principles, they advice not getting in pushing our spouses while they are still in A. It won't work and it will only hamper your chances later on for reconciliation.
Change tactics. YOU CAN DO IT! Keep your eye on the goal. He's not going to stop seeing her now. The affair will end a natural death ONLY if you don't pursue him.
When the A dies, only then will he think about reconciliation. But you have to show that you will not PUNISH him because if you act like that now, he won't come back. He doesn't think it's SAFE to return to a wife who will make him feel guilty and miserable all the time.
Am I making sense? TxMom, I know where you're at emotionally. We are all there together. I am just looking out for your future. You are pushing him towards a D because he wants to get away from his feelings of guilt and shame. But you remind him everytime you see him of what a bad dad, terrible husband he is. He knows this. Do the opposite! Then when A ends, he will WANT to come back.
This is the time to use your feminine wiles. This is to time to use your brains and outwit the OW and H. This is the time to show Compassion to your H, at the time when he LEAST deserves it. Are you up to the challenge?