sg's edit to add link to previous thread.
Suzanne's previous thread "What I need to know now, is is it possible for me to detach and give him the space and time he is asking for and both of us live in the same house? I just don't know if it is."
Dear Wifey,
((((((hugh hugs))))
I do not know if it is possible for you to give him some space if you are together. Here is what I know about MY sitch. Our lawyers are going to have a "telephone" conference on Tuesday morning, and I'm shattered too.
But, in my defense, my attorney is going to ask for an "uncontested divorce" with the stipulation that we both stay in the marital home at least twice a week together for 6 to 8 months. And, we must also have a visit with a mediator who has a background in marriage counseling and not a background as an attorney, to discuss the terms of the separation agreement.
I do NOT know what the outcome will be. I do know that we both want the house. He wants the D, and I do not.
His 'incentive' will be that I will give him the house if it does not work out, with my half being paid for, of course. All of this rather than fighting it out in court and losing everything.
I do know that it is possible for two divorcing people to live in the same house as long as you both "respect" each other's boundaries. I do know that my H did not "respect" my boundaries on Friday night when he was *whispering* on the phone in the next room, right in FRONT of me, probably to his OW, and so we had a fight and he has pulled away, yet again. But, I'm OK with that right at this moment. I was not OK with it on Friday or yesterday.
(I probably need to add this to my NEW & IMPROVED thread).
Hope this helps,
hugs again,
s
Maybe I screwed up again, but I finally was able to get my boundaries spoken. He was angry, threatened again to have the phone cut off on me. Said he was my husband "legally but not in spirit." I said my boundaries were no phone calls and whispering. No driving past the house. (He did that this morning and told me so).
So, I totally messed up. Need to be on meds. I've been sleeping on and off.
Don't feeling like posting much.
Thank you all for your feedback last night, but I'm the fool for love, I guess. Can't deal with this anymore for awhile. Thank you all. Will lurk later, maybe.
hugs,
s
Suzanne, messing up is okay. I don't think you did tho. Sleeping on & off is killer for the nervous system. Have you tried melatonin, or valerian ?
I've been on lorazepam & wellbutrin for about 2 years now. I finally started sleeping through the night when my doctor added proxac.
Hugs
Maybe I screwed up again, but I finally was able to get my boundaries spoken. He was angry, threatened again to have the phone cut off on me. Said he was my husband "legally but not in spirit." I said my boundaries were no phone calls and whispering. No driving past the house. (He did that this morning and told me so).
So, I totally messed up. Need to be on meds. I've been sleeping on and off.
Don't feeling like posting much.
Thank you all for your feedback last night, but I'm the fool for love, I guess. Can't deal with this anymore for awhile. Thank you all. Will lurk later, maybe.
hugs,
s
You did NOT mess up. You need boundaries, YOU are IMPORTANT, too!!!
Now, just think about consequences,small, not methods of killing him or divorcing him.
Don't sweat it...you did the right thing. The right thing sometimes gives us knots in our stomach. I bet your toes look awesome, and he knows it. We KNOW her toes aren't so cute.
((((Suzanne)))))
But, in my defense, my attorney is going to ask for an "uncontested divorce" with the stipulation that we both stay in the marital home at least twice a week together for 6 to 8 months.
Are you sure about this? Forcing him to spend time with you is likely to cause resentment, more than bringing you closer together.
I haven't read up on your whole sitch so my apologies for not knowing all the background. This just jumped out at me and I wanted to mention it.
NiK
Yes, I'll probably lose, but:
This is really a variation of what my DB coach suggested to me, when we last spoke. I am not sure about anything, but who knows? It's worth a try rather than fighting it out for the house, no?
Thanks,
s
its an interesting approach Suzanne. Definitly different. BUt in all our sitchs, different is good. Just don't force anything.....that is one thing i would be leery of.....if you force him to be there with you and force him to go to MC, then he could end up resenting that.......and you'd be back where you started.....ya know?
IDK...just my 2 cents..
Suzanne - Thanks for all your comments on my thread.
I'm not sure what to say to you in your sitch as, for me, when OP become involved, it adds a whole new other dimension that your fighting against. I mean, you mentally cannot accept it I don't think, I know I can't. It's tough as it is, but I definately feel those without OP in their sitches can DB easier.
We will be ok though. Sleep is essentila for us so i'm off to bed shortly myself. 10.10pm in UK
Neil,
Yup! I'know. I'm going with the flow right at the moment. So, thank you buddy. I'm with ya. Not all the time, but most of it.
Arthur,
Sweet dreams, mate!
hugs all around,
s
Dear Good Advisors,
I honestly need your advice now. I can...not stop calling my H. He is patient with me most of the time, but I do get out of hand and it's freaking me out! Seriously, How do I stop calling him? I'm addicted to it. Please help.
s
put your phone in the freezer. go out and leave your phone home. anything......but don't do it.
alot of it is self control......find it. you have it in you. you are NOT addicted to him. you do NOT need to talk to him to survive. break yourself othat though process....
Ok, Thanks Neil,
Will TRRRRRRRYYYYYYY! I hate to say it, but this REALLY S****ks. You're gonna hate me but I actually DID go out and leave the phone home. Then I went and called him from the restaurant. What a JERK!
hugs,
s
Suzanne - interesting on the house arrangement. I hope you can make that work. I've seen a few situations where people rented an apartment and then traded off weeks, too - i.e. you're in the house one week while H is in the apartment, then the next week you switch. Lets the kids stay in one place and it postpones the fight over the house. Just another thought, if the original plan doesn't work out well for either or both of you.
On the calling, yes, it's really just about self control and there's not much any of us can do to help with that except say YOU CAN DO IT!!!
You have to CHOOSE to do it, then follow through.
Thanks NikB,
I'm curious tho. I see you've been through a very tough time yourself, just by your signiture lines. How did YOU do it? My goodness. I'm really impressed. Did you answer when he called? Did you ever go dark?
Just wondering about you and those of you who are making it work.
hugs,
s
Dear Good Advisors,
I honestly need your advice now. I can...not stop calling my H. He is patient with me most of the time, but I do get out of hand and it's freaking me out! Seriously, How do I stop calling him? I'm addicted to it. Please help.
s
I was too. Do what Michele told me..........Just do it. Don't give yourself ANY reason/excuse to do it. It will make things worse, it won't make them better, don't do it.
NO MORE from this moment forward. Do ANYTHING else.
Ok, Thanks Neil,
Will TRRRRRRRYYYYYYY!
hey suzanne-------
read my quote. then decide what you are going to do.
i believe in you. you can do this.
just decide to.
it's really that simple.
look, about 5 months ago i decided to do everything in my power to save my M. everything. Now, i went off on some false trails....endured a physical separation.....and a legal separation...and quite possibly an EA or a PA.....and everyone, every single person i know, really honestly believes i should cut my losses and move on. I have people trying to set me up on dates all the time. I don't go.
you know why?
Because I decided to save my M. I know i can. Look at how few people are really on this site... the population of the world is 6.5 billion. HOw many people come to this site daily? Maybe 100? Maybe 200? WE go against the norm. WE go against what society has said we should do....cut our losses and move on. There's no chance. But we believe we can.
i don't know who said it, but....
if you put your mind to it, you can accomplish anything.
I believe I am going to save my M. You need to believe it to. Start working towards that goal. Yes, we all struggle (even me!
) but that doesn't mean we should be silly and don't do what's right.
STart doing what works for you. You know it. Decide to do it.
I believe in you
Neil,
I LOVE YOU, MAN!
OK, I'll set my *stupid, ignoramous* strong-willed mind to do this. I did do it one day, so I can do it again. Thanks. Still chuckling with you.
(((((((((hugs)))))))))
s
OOPs,
Just read your post too, SG. I LOVE YOU TOO, GIRLFRIEND!
((((((HUGS)))))))))))
S
Ok, so one more thing. He says he'll call me before going to sleep. Can I ask him to call me tomorrow? Will that be OK? BTW, when I ask him, he always says yes. And, he always does.
s
Ahh yeah... been through a LOT and it's hard to believe I'm coming up on 2 years since the original bomb. How I did it... basically following the DB principles the best I could. GAL, 180s, work on improving myself, fixing those things that I could.
And yes, months of running to the bathroom or car to cry so H didn't see it (at least, most of the time). Acting As If and having that PMA are critical for sure. It is freaking HARD to act light and airy and happy around the person who just turned your world upside down, but you can do it.
I answered most of the time when he called, but not always. I almost always made sure to answer if I was out in a noisy place so he could hear the background noise and wonder where I was.
Dark... not totally, but pretty dim for awhile. I got to where I wasn't calling him, and that was big for me. Funny enough, not long after is when things started to turn around more. The big turning point was when I took a week long road trip down to San Diego (in fact, several of us DB ladies rented a house for the week and met there - it was great!). I talked to him when I arrived safely (he'd asked me to call), and he called once during the week, but that was all we talked. I KNOW that got him thinking. I went on a 10-12 hour drive, by myself, on vacation, to a place we both loved to go together... I'm sure he was going "WTF???" I wasn't crushed and crying and desparate anymore, and I was even starting to move on and accept reality a bit.
There's no one magic thing that works and the most important thing to know is that it will take more time and patience than you can even believe. That's scary, but it also helps take the "OMG I have to fix it all NOW!!" pressure. Time and patience.
NONE of it was easy and I totally understand that. In the beginning it's "breath in".. now "breath out." I was a mess for a few months - but the better I got, the better things got in our sitch.
I'm trying to think back.. in the VERY beginning the things that had the most impact were the 180s that I did. I kept my fingers and toes polished at all times, dressed really nice every day, bought myself a small bouquet of flowers every week and kept them on the table, styled my hair differently, bought new clothes, re-decorated the bedroom, lost weight (albeit the "bomb diet" is not that healthy but still.. I needed to), I'm trying to even remember everything I did. Some felt fake or forced but I stuck with the change to see if it was "me" or not. Some were, some weren't - so I kept the things that "fit" me and dropped those that didn't.
I hope some of that helps... I know it's so much to take in all at once!
Ok, so one more thing. He says he'll call me before going to sleep. Can I ask him to call me tomorrow? Will that be OK? BTW, when I ask him, he always says yes. And, he always does.
s
No.
Suzanne, you need to learn to soothe yourself. And you will be glad you did. When he agrees to call you, you are not in the position you want to be, so it isn't the reassurance you really want.
Wait, and get the love you want.
Give him his real space.
I KNOW how hard this is. I've lived it....and still live it's reduced versions.
The more you do this, the more you put of the longer wait, and the more you do it, the longer it will take (the going dark). Get it over NOW.
Suzanne, you need to learn to soothe yourself. And you will be glad you did. When he agrees to call you, you are not in the position you want to be, so it isn't the reassurance you really want.
Wait, and get the love you want.
Give him his real space.
I KNOW how hard this is. I've lived it....and still live it's reduced versions.
The more you do this, the more you put of the longer wait, and the more you do it, the longer it will take (the going dark). Get it over NOW.
Ditto..
Consistency...
No blowing up his phone....
180s This is the hardest thing to go thru but if you can work on you , it will save you honey......
We all believe in you....
~Ali
Suzzanne - You just gotta believe girl. People are telling you what they did and that it worked so now you gotta believe and copy, but not expect anything to happen all of a sudden.
Have a great Day (would say week, but take it one day at a time)
Suzanne,
I finally decided that what I was doing wasn't working and hurt like anything. DB works and is my only chance. So, now I believe I can do this. (Granted, this waivers all the time.)
I wish there was a way I could give you my phone number here, then you could call me when you wanted to call him.
If you have to take your phone and pretend to call me until we can figure out how to get you my number, then do that!
Do not call him. Do not call him. Do not call him!!!!!!!! And do not ask him to call you.
Suzanne,
Sorry you had sucha rough weekend.
I can't stress enough how important it is to find something that gives you peace to do while having a rough day. Also SG's pedicure is an excellent way to reward yourself for doing a good job (i'm not into pedi's myself.....but it is probably a guy thing...lol).
Give your H loving space...even if you are in the same house...it is possible...it just sounds wierd if you haven't done it. Think of the good part you are in the same house.
What loving space means is let him be. Your post about the "wispering phone calls" I think is a perfect example. I know you set this as a boundary for you. Honestly, I don't think your R is there yet where you can make demands. This doesn't mean that you let him walk all over you, it just means you let him do his thing. From his perspective, stopping the wispering phone calls is controlling him....this will not bring him closer to you. Realistically you are only asking him to stop becuase they make your imagination run wild...."is it the other women"...etc. Your imagination runs wild because you are scared (every right to be so) and insecure and you don't trust him (for obvious reasons). If you continue to show your mistrust you are only going to drive him further away. Besides it would be very intrusive to "prove" what the conversation was about...he can always defend it as a friend checking on how he is doing...remember this isn't easy on him as well. My point is this is something you can't win at...so let it be.
I think a better approach is to just ignore the wispering phone calls, show that they don't bother you, show that you are secure. When he comes back in the room, instead of seeming hurt or insecure, smile at him and make some casual conversation. I imagine he has seen quite a different reaction in the past, show him a positive 180....show him a secure Suzanne, even if you have to act it in the beginning. This a big differnce from the 3rd degree he has received in the past (warranted or not). This is just an example of how to give him space but yet live under the same roof.
I have to agree with one of the posters, I am not certain requiring him to sepnd time with you is a good solution. Perhaps a better approach would be to defend your right to stay in the house....if he wants to stay great, if he doesn't that is ok as well. If he is forced he will resent it and it won't be pleasant.
As far as the lawyers having a phone conference, I would let all legal actions be initiated by his L, and then have your L respond (others may have opinions on this). I just feel this si not something you want to be viewed as pushing forward. Let him set the pace....he might just slow down.
Thank you TD,
Sigh! I have a lot on my mind today. Plus, there is a lot to tell you. I have so much on my plate right now. I have the H's truck again, and I'm moving everything out tonight and leaving tomorrow.
He did call today and when I listened to the voicemail, there was no message. It sounded like he actually held his cell phone out of the window in his bronco and just let the wind hit it. He did that to me yesterday too.
Anyway, I need to write you all a long post with some explanations of me and H's personalities etc., but unfortunately, I won't be able to do it tonight. Hopefully, tomorrow. Still terribly sad and anxious.
Hugs to all,
s
OK, I know I'm whining now, but this is killing me. My H just called and left a message that he left dog food but didn't feed the dog. Must be testing me because I have his truck. He does not sound happy. No goodbye or anything.
I left him a note this morning saying I hope he doesnt mind that I took his truck. I left him some fajitas, and said I'm off tomorrow. I guess that was his cue not to stay home tonight. Tomorrow is the big day with the attorneys. I'm desperado. Where is Wifey?
discouraged,
s
HEy Suzanne-
which book? The Five Love languages?
btw...is it actually his truck? or is it in both of your names?
Neil,
Yes, the 5LL.
OK, here's the deal. EVERYTHING is in his name, even my car. I was a victim of D.V. before I met him and the "monster" is in prison. But, I will fear him all the rest of my days. So, I have nothing in my name. My H honored that, and I "trusted" him. LOL.
s
hmm....tell him to use your car then.
best i can offer you there. besides the fact that it's "his anger" not yours......don't worry about it.
here's another idea to help with the calling/negative thoughts about your sitch...and i think either Wifey or SadMillitaryWife is using it too...
put a rubber band around your wrist...every time you think a negative thought about your sitch or think of calling your H, snap it. Every time. It's a bit of behavioral therapy...
Suzanne,
I just wanted to let you know that you will be in my prayers...I'm not very good at it, but I try...
Try to find some way to relax....I know it is extremely difficult.....but it will help tons. Most of us have been where you are in emotions, I was in it several months before I found DB. I found DB to give me a sense of empowerment....like I coul dmake a difference in my M by myself whether my W wanted to or not. If you look at it from that perspective then it might give you some hope and help you relax
((((hugs)))))
Suzanne,
Please note I edited your phone number from Wifey's thread.
You are new and in a stressful situation, so I didn't want to shock you but the fully prescribed edit is as follows:
EDITED - email addresses are NOT ALLOWED. You must comply with the
Divorcebusting.com: Board Rules if you would like to continue the privilege of posting here.
Please do not post such information again -- I want you to stick around!!!!
Suzanne,
Just wanted to let you know, that I am thinking about you and realize this is probably a pretty rough day and I hope you are doing ok.
Found you, Suzanne. I'm holding your hand, girl. I know the pain; I feel it twice for you. I was honored that you wondered where I was.
I had IC last night. Good session. Catch up on my thread. Can't post much because I'm busy at work today. I think my C's words would have meaning for you, though. I'll try to get here early tomorrow so I can catch up with everyone.
suzanne...i hope you are having a good day, well as good as possible...
i'm thinking of you!!!
stay strong
Hello,
Just a short note to let you know I'm still alive and kickin' (not kickin' too hard right now). I'm at work (who would'a thunk it?) Don't really know how I accomplished all the moving and loading and unloading, and talk with my atty, and talk with neighbor (more later on that).But I did, somehow, but did a really lousy job of it. (more later). H called yesterday afternoon and left message to "see if I was home and what to do about the dog?") I was home but didn't pick up. He called again at 7 p.m. but no message.
cheers,
s
Glad you are still kickin....thanks for letting us know :-)
Hey there TD,
It's lunchtime. I wanted to tell you something veeeerrrrry interesting that I learned last night. I actually had a long convo with a neighber (naming her Lisa). She told me something about my H that I did not know.
Now, I know Jack-three-beans would say to this -- "don't analyse" -- but ya know what? I think this is significant and would like any possible input about it that I can get.
Lisa is married to (Mike) and they would talk to us, mostly H across the fence sometimes. Actually, I'm talking a period of about seven or eight years here. Anyway, when I told Lisa that H admitted to having lap dances, last year, she was shocked and found it unbelievable.
The thing of it, is, that I always just took her statement with a grain of salt and just "agreed" with her. But then last night during our convo, she revealed to me that "...in all the years I've even known him, he never once looked me in the eyes." She said she just took it as he was extremely shy. But then she said, and this is the part that gets me -- she said she wondered, "how could he go and do stuff like that, and he can't even look his own neighber in the eyes, for cripes sake?"
I'm floored, and confused. Does anyone have any input on this one?
s
Here is the update on the attys convo. My atty, calling her carol, and his atty, calling her mia, talked yesterday. Carol told me that Mia was "...at first, adament about him wanting the D as quickly as possible." Carol then told Mia that "it would be in his best interest to do it her way, because it could potentially save him a lot of money."
So, as it stands now, his atty. will get back to mine as soon as she presents the proposal, which I'm sure she allready did, yesterday. He did not mention anything in his voicemail yesterday, so I'm still waiting. I have not heard from him today and I did not call him.
There is still more...later.
s
Oh, I forgot to mention that 'saving money' could be a BIG incentive.
I'm not sure I understand her shock. Does she think shy men don't go to strip clubs? Or guys who aren't smooth at dealing with women? Why does she think these places exist in the first place?
Personally, I visited the local place a couple of times and just found it deeply awkward. I haven't been back in years. But I can easily see how a man could reach the point where it seemed like a good idea. A stripper keeps her judgments to herself. She doesn't tell you that you aren't good enough, she doesn't complain about you, and she doesn't nag you. She is not disappointed with the way you look or the way you dress (well, she does not express disappointment.) She isn't testing you. The exchange is clear; you give her this much money, and she does X, Y and Z for you. It's not particularly satisfying, but it's not fake. She can't be pretending to be in love with you, because she doesn't claim to be. She isn't trying to fool you or shame you or make you feel guilty.
Of course, she's not doing any of that because she doesn't care. You're nothing to her. But how many men are there who suspect that they're nothing to ANY women, especially their wives? For them and from their point of view, being nothing to a stripper is just like being nothing to your neighbor or your wife, except that the stripper doesn't have to lie about it.
Hey, Poet, what happened to your name? You're safe, right?
S,
I posted this on my thread but wanted to put it here just in case you do not come back to my thread and read it.
No D,
I'm sorry if I did not make myself clear enough. I should have added that you are doing the right thing, and to keep it up. Sometimes, my communications skills are not the greatest. Please forgive me. I really, really meant that she was doing what you wanted her to do. I'm probably out-of-place visiting your thread. sorry.
((((((hugs)))))
s
.
Do not apologize for your comment and you are not out of line for visiting my thread. I appriciate any comment or advice or 2x4 that anybody wants to throw my way. Please do not feel that I was upset, I just did not look at it from that POV and I was just trying to explain why I did not call her back.
Sometimes I am a little blunt in my postings and I am sorry if I made you feel unwelcome.
Feel free to read and comment on my thread anytime. All are welcome.
Tim
Hey Bear,
Yes ... safe, but not necessarily sound.
hugs, poet
Hey Bear,
I read your post about the 'shy guy' but I have another Big Question. Why is it that he can't/won't look me in the eyes anymore?
poet
Poet,
You already know he is ashamed and feels guilt for some of the things he has done....why do you think he has been so defensive...should give you some insight into why at least partially why he doesn't look you in the eyes
TD,
THANK you for finding me. I was distressed without you.
I never thought of it this way because it doesn't fit in with his actions. And he just stated recently that "I am your H legally but not in spirit."
I am still a bit shaky (physically) will explain more later, but I have not heard from him today at all, and I'm beginning to panic. I have NOT called him tho.
hugs,
poet
Poet,
Do something that gives you peace....panic leads to mistakes and backsliding.
Don't believe anything he says....we have all heard stuff very similar to this
hey S or Poet???? (what happened with the name)
listen to Twindad.....find something that gives you happiness. and remember, Panic only makes the sitch worse...relax, as best as you can....
Dear Neil and TD,
I am safely home now. Just got here. Thank you for checking in on me. H and I did not call each other once today. I have not spoken with him since yesterday morning. This is the longest I've ever gone. I need you to know that he did not come home today to feed the dog. He has never done that. His own 180's are more distant than they have ever been. I am trying not to panic, but I'm really frightened.
hugs,
poet
Well, you're following your plan, right? That's good.
I think Twindad hit the nail on the head, though I have to tell you, we're not experts on your husband or his psychology. But that said, it does sound like he's simultaneously feeling guilty and defensive. He'd like to justify his actions, and he'd like to change the subject to the things you've done wrong to hurt him, but he can't stop thinking about what he's doing wrong. Not to make excuses for him or try to drum up sympathy, but I'm sure he's completely miserable.
Remember, you can only control YOUR actions, not his. Don't respond negatively....respond with caring indifference..... say to your H "I'm surprised you didn't come home to feed (dog's name)" and leave it at that. Gauge the sitch. by putting the dogs name in, it makes it a little personal. The only reason you would bring this up tho, is if he brings up why he didn't come home......you don't want to make him feel guilty.
make sense?
Good morning all,
Thank you for responding. This, I wanted to tell you last night, but it got too late. No sooner did I post that H wasn't home last night, and I was on the computer at this Web site, when I heard the key in the lock. It was 10:50 p.m. H used to be asleep by this time every night for the duration of our marriage.
In fact, he was in bed by dark, sometimes as early as 7 p.m. but mostly by 8 p.m. every night. So, coming home in his work clothes was extremely unusual.
Anyway, I was surprised and immediately got off the computer and wiped out the history just in time, before he stepped into the computer room. I jumped up and faced him and said, 'in a neutral tone, bear, "You're home." No positives, no negatives.
He was ... um distressed, using his whiney voice said, "Yes, but I'm not staying because you're here. Why can't you at least tell me when you're going to be here so I can know whether to be here to feed "Buddy?"
Me: You told me you wanted to leave you alone?
H: I have laundry that I wanted to do and everything.
Me: There is some clean laundry for you on the fireplace. (That's where he likes me to leave it).
H: Are you coming home every night now?
Me: Whenever I want to.
H: Do you still have your job?
Me: Yes.
H: Where, are you still at the same place or are you working somewhere else?
Me: Same place (He's told me in the past that he will serve me at the apt. or at work. I can only conjecture that he's getting ready to serve me and it will be at work.)
H: I'll come back and get it in the minute. He leaves and goes outside, probably to make a phone call.
Me: I'm extremely tired and go to bed.
H: Comes back in a few minutes later. I can hear him puttering around in the kitchen. Then he comes into the bedroom.
H: "Hiding again, you can't even tell me/talk to me." (not sure what exactly was said here).
Me: It's late.
H: I know.
Me: I'm tired. I was going to bed.
H: You're not even going to turn the lights off.
Me: I was going to let you do that since you're still here.
H: Fine. He goes out and comes back into the house again with his dirty clothes. As he was leaving, he was on the phone AGAIN.
I was very calm throughout the whole exchange. When he was in the bedroom talking to me, he was walking away from me rubbing his head. He does that sometimes. Not sure why and it doesn't really matter, I guess.
Bear, yes, he's told me that he's miserable. But, he always adds that he'll be "...happy when this is all over 'you'll see'".
End of story. It's really over. No hope here.
Any comments?
hugs,
poet
Poet,
It is good that you kept your cool and it was a fairly neutral exchange which must have been a nice change for both of you. Don't give up hope....you are not anywhere where many others haven't gone and saved their M. Even if he files it is still not over.
Poet-
Twindad is right...don't ever give up hope. we have all felt hopeless at one point. Remember, you are the one responsible for your happiness....don't let his mood/actions effect you. I know it's hard..believe me, i know!!...but you are on the right path.
you did good to keep yoru cool yesterday
Thanks (hugs)
Forgot to tell you something. When he was in the bdroom talking to me, he said, "you can't even call me and tell me when you're coming home so I can know what to do with dog.
I said, You told me to "leave" you alone. He said, at least once or twice a day so I know what you're doing?
Also, I called him this morning when he was "with his boss" and he reiterated the same thoughts. He wants me to call him one or two times so he can know where/what I'm doing and for the dog. That's all.
I don't want to do this. I'm thinking what all ya'll have been telling me not to call him. I told him this morning that he was confusing me. He said, again, not every five minutes, once or twice so I can know when you are home, dog "something is wrong" etc. I think he was being "nice" in front of his boss.
I'm confused as to what to do. Do I call or don't call? Help.
hugs,
p
Poet,
What I have said in the past is don't use the "going dark" as a weapon and be so litteral in it.....that will hurt you and the R. Your H is giving you specific informaiton on what he expects. He wants to touch base with you a couple times a day.....that is great. He doesn't want you to call 50 times in a day (that is very smoothering at the least). Make the couple phone calls a day, it could be these little "no pressure" conversations that get you too back to somewhat a normal state.
When you say something like "you told me to leave you alone", it is taken by him as being "well do you want me to call you or not, obviously you want me to call you" and comes off somewhat spiteful. It almost comes across as "you wanted to know what life is like without me, here is what is like, you don't like it do you". I don't think this approach is going to bring you closer to your goal.
I understand how this can be confusing. What your H is asking for is space.....loving space.....he also loves you and wants to make sure you are ok. His wanting space means, give him the couple phone calls a day....make them pleasant, don't bring up the R, the D, any issues....he doesn't want any pressure from anyone. He wants sopmeone that is going to call a coupe times a day and make some small talk. If you continue to pressure then you are going to complete the pushing him out of your life.
You have proven you can be calm around him, then making these phone calls should be pretty easy. The more you do them the more natural they will be.
Leave the R out of it....just be a casual friend.....and don't panic
Ok TD,
This I will do. Promise. Thank you for answering my question.
p
If he was so sure divorce would make him happy, he wouldn't have to repeat himself. That's not to promise you that he won't be happy after a divorce, but he doesn't actually know that will happen. He sounds like he's desperate to do something, anything, and divorce is the thing he hasn't tried yet.
Don't freak out if he serves you. Desperate people make snap decisions. They do things you know, watching, that they're going to regret in the morning. I'm not a marriage expert, but I've been dealing with scared, desperate people for a long time.
How does one's repeating oneself make him/her a desperate person. Sounds like I need to reflect on this myself???
thanks,
p
This is all just my conjecture, you understand. I don't actually know what's happening. Be careful about placing any authority in what I say.
I would not say that repeating himself makes him desperate. Repeating a dubious assertion is commonly something people do when they're unsure. It's reassuring to them. It's the same behavior as the "affirmations" that pop psychologists tell people to do--you know, "I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and doggone it, people like me." Repeat it to yourself enough and you start to believe it.
He's telling himself over and over that he's going to be happy if he can just stick it out and get as far as the divorce. He's struggling just like you are, just not in the same ways, and he needs to tell himself that the struggle will be worth it in the end.
IF this is true (and again, this is just a WAG from somebody who doesn't know you!) then he's not saying it to hurt you. He's saying it even though it hurts you because he needs to hear it said again.
I just assumed the desperate part from his behavior--the separation, the divorce, the attempts not to see you face-to-face. I see the divorce as his last-resort desperation move to make some change, any change.
Have you ever been stuck in cramped position for a long time, and the cramping and the pain build up to the point where you can't take it, but you can't get up and stretch out? What do you do?
You shift in whatever way you can. It doesn't fix anything and you know it's not going to fix anything, but it's a change. Anything that's different from what you're going through is better than nothing. That's what he's doing; changing for the sake of change.
This might all be projection on my part, because divorce was my last-last resort, the thing I swore I'd never do. So if I were in his shoes, doing what he's doing, it could only be from desperation. But he's not me, so again, be careful taking advice from me.
(((Poet)))
Looks like you're getting lots of good support and advice here - glad to see it!
One thing about telling him "what you're doing" - yes, I agree to call him and keep it light and casual. Along those lines, don't share TOO much about what you're doing. Leave a little mystery, and don't share more about your life than he's willingly sharing about his.
For example.. if he's not telling you where he is, what he's doing, and who with - he doesn't get that much detail from you. Where were you last night? Out with friends.. at the movies.. whatever it is that you did. Don't lie, just be vague and not too detailed.
From your post to me - I also wanted to let you know - there's no loophole on the site by which you can share your email address. However, there are a number of people from here who've joined Facebook, if you care to look for us. I'm not sure how much I'm allowed to share here, but if you look for an unusual user name (i.e. Kalni Sunshine) you should be able to find the group.
Yikes!
Why do I feel like I'm sinking in quicksand? Quickly. I know I'm not supposed to panic, and I'm trying really hard. Can't cry at work. Can't scream into my pillow
p
Hi TD and all,
Still a bit shaky here. aaack!
Question: you mentioned that you know of people who came back from worse conditions than I have right now. Please tell me some more about this. I'm sorry if I'm sounding desperate, but I'm really scared.
hugs,
poet
Poet--
you gotta calm down sweetheart...seriously...you are going to be OK. believe it. Can you go for a walk or something? Just to get out? Go to the bathroom and splash cold water on your face? Something to shake that feeling off of you.....
Panic Kills. Don't Panic.
Whatever doesn't kill you will make you stronger.
Believe those statements...cause they are both true.....
relax
Poet,
Look at the positives. Your H hasn't filed yet....he may do so he may not. I think what I said is that pretty much everyone at this board has had the same feelings that you are having. I know I have. I litteraly spent months crying at work.....basically "silent screaming" all day long. I spent the days hoping to have any sort of contact what so ever. I spent the evenings taking her emotional temperature (when she was home....when she wasn't she would get in at 2AM and say she didn't want t go home) and forget about her actually returning one of my calls! I was told things like "I'm done.....I love you but I am not in love with you......this has been coming down for a long time......that was the last straw......when I make up my mind that is all there is to it......You are the same and I have changed.....someone else would be better for you......I'm miserabe.....I don't want to come home" I begged, I pleaded, I tried to reason, I talked non-stop about the R, I snooped, I paniced, I tried to get her to go to counseling, I tried to get her to go to church, I became self righteous about my R views. Any of this sound familiar?
This was all before reading DR. All the above just lead to one thing.....that was definitely separating. After reading DR, I decided I could do this, I gained confidence, I took ownership of my own actions and faults, I realized I could do this on my own, and that regardless of what happened I was going to be ok and a better person.
This isn't to say there isn't work to do....there was plenty and always will be to some degree. Accepting your current state is key, finding ways to find peace is key in the beginning. If you read through any of the first threads for LBS you would probably find a lot of the first paragraph in any of their sitches.....if you read through any sitch that is steadily improving you will find a lot of the second paragraph.
((((((Poet)))))) we have all been or are in the same boat.....you are nt alone in this. If you want some inspiration then read some of the success stories. I believe there is a list of them in one of the forums (MLC I think). MY inspiration came from Diehards success story...find it read it....it gives hope through some pretty dark circumstances and is relativey new
Hang in their Sweetie, you will be ok
(((Poet)))
You're gonna be OK. I promise.
This is so true:
Accepting your current state is key, finding ways to find peace is key in the beginning.
SO true.
What can you do to help find some peace today?
Question: you mentioned that you know of people who came back from worse conditions than I have right now. Please tell me some more about this. I'm sorry if I'm sounding desperate, but I'm really scared.
I'd say darn near everyone on this site has felt the way you're feeling right now.
I wish I could find my posts from Oct - Dec 06 (right after the bomb), so you could see the difference. I found some starting January 07 but those are after the worst of it had subsided a little bit. Not to upset you, but so you could read "then and now" and know you'll be OK.
The shakiness might be something more than just nerves, too. You're probably hyperventilating or overbreathing. Yes, you can do this without even KNOWING you are doing it. Please, please take measures NOW to avoid it. I've been there, done that, and I don't ever want anyone to go through that! Please take a look at these links:
http://www.healthline.com/adamcontent/hyperventilationhttp://www.bp.edu/What%20can%20you%20do.pdfAnd see if any of these symptoms apply to you. If they do, work hard NOW to remedy them. The PDF gives great, great tips. Breathing too shallow but too rapidly, taking frequent deep breaths to try to relax yourself, not exhaling completely - all of those are things that I was doing and did not know it. The PDF gives some great tips to help recognize it.
My symptoms started off as feeling kinda shaky, then I started getting these bizarre muscle cramps in my hands. My thumb and forefinger would form a "u" shape and I literally couldn't stop it (and trust me I wanted to, having the muscle locked up like that hurt!). That happened a few times but never got worse and I had no clue what it was - I blamed all the typing I do. Then I had the full on anxiety attack. OMG.. I was at a hair salon and I actually thought I was going to die. My whole body was convulsing and all my muscles locked up, I was curled up in a ball in the chair and literally couldn't stop it. Of course, that led me to REALLY hyperventilate, making the symptoms worse, etc. Viscious cycle. When it very first started I asked them to call my H, but it got worse so fast I said nevermind I need help NOW, call an ambulance. This came and went for HOURS in the ER.. it sucked! What ended up fixing it... the old trick you thought was only in the movies - breathing very deliberately into a paper bag for about half an hour.
Not meaning to hijack and definitely not meaning to scare you, but please take this seriously and work on getting those nerves/shakes under control.
((((Poet)))))
PS - thanks for the note "you know where." I wonder if you sent it to someone else as I didn't see it?
If it was to Kalni - that's not actually me, just a more easily identifiable name there.
If you go through her friends list you'll see lots of familiar names including mine. I'll look for you too.
SG found my early posts - so if you're curious, feel free to read them. They're on page 1 of my current thread (linked in my signature).
Hi Nik, TD and Neil,
Thank you all for talking to me, and trying to help me through this. I gotta say, tears are streaming down right now. I'm a mess, but I'll try to answer some of what ya'll are saying to me and some of what I experienced when I got home tonight.
First, TD, yes, it all sounds familiar gosh dern it! I have to drive two hours again to work in the morning but I have off saturday (thank God), so I'll try to get to that thread you were talking about. Thanks so much for your support. You have no clue how much I appreciate you and need your words. ((((hugs))))
Neil, Shucks! You called me sweetheart. I've not hear that in YEARS. Thank you from the bottom of my heart. I am calming down, I go through spurts at work because I don't want to be there. I really don't know how I'm making it through. I'm sure my boss is not happy.
Nik, I have to say, it took me a LOOOOONG time to scroll back to whatever thread this is below, and I'm sure it's not at the beginning, but I got to the part below, and could not read any further. I'm sick about the cell phone business.
If you're at all familiar with my sitch, I caught him coming out of the driveway of our house on June 13th and ran out of the house. He literally ran me out of the way with his truck and then I followed them. Later, the next day (or week - can't remember) He said, "maybe it's good that you found out." And I said, "A lot of people get to this point and make it work out. We can still make it work if you'll get rid of that girl." And he said, "Yeah, but I don't want to." (he meant he didn't want to get rid of her, and he still has her).
So, your paragraphs below really make me cry. Maybe this cry is good for me. I'll see if there is an easier, faster way to get to your beginning so I can read some of it. Thanks for the connection.
As far as me, I got home from work at 8:30 p.m. I had to go to the apt and finish up the cleaning, mopping etc. and leave another month's rent for the landlord, who said if I didn't she would hold me liable until Dec.
Anyway, when I got home, there was a note on the counter from H. He has been here. The note said, "I fed Buddy tonight (thurs). and he signed his name. There were dirty clothes in the laundry. He likes to leave them for me for some reason. And I like doing them for him. He also left three rolls of bathroom (you know what I mean) paper. So, that was nice, I guess.
So anyway, his dark clothes are in the wash now, and I added to his note. "Thanks for feeding Buddy. I really appreciate it. You've got some clean clothes in the livingroom." If I'm not exhausted in the morning, I'll do his lights too.
Gotta get some rest. The panic stuff is livable. My doc started me on Celexea, which I've only taken twice. I was allergic to Zoloft, which started all the panic and hives and red itchy, dry very dry, skin and other reactions, which H took as my going crazy, I'm sure.
Anyway, give me a week, and if I'm not allergic to it, too, I'll be back together again, finally.
Anyway, I love you all.
poet (will explain the change too at some point).
P.S.
Below is Nik's paragraphs that I was talking about above.
night to all
"As for the cell phone - NO they don't need to use them at work. But, his answer made sense, and I don't think it'll happen again. A little back story is I found out that H did talk to her briefly on Sunday (first time they'd had phone contact in a month). She called because she was all upset about finalizing the D details and dividing up the rest of the stuff with her H, and wanted to talk. Which means I was wrong in my assumption that he had initiated contact. He did add her back to his phone list, but he didn't initiate the call. The Sunday call was a minute and a half long - he said he basically listened for a minute then told her he was sorry but that he couldn't help her (wow.. that blew me away).
Fast forward to work on Tuesday. A bunch of the mechanics were trying to find her because there was a problem in the parts dept and they needed her help, no one could find her, and someone said they had seen her walk away crying. Guys being guys all of them heard "crying woman" and went "Well I'm not calling her!" H is the only one "close" to her (other than her boyfriend who refused to call), so H called to find out where she was and if she was coming back to work. The call was only about 15 seconds.
The calls after work that same day, the ones I saw come in, were weird. He kept insisting he hadn't called her and she hadn't called him, which got us looking at the phone log. He was really scratching his head when he saw the calls - seemed very honestly confused. He kept pulling up the call details and such, and it turns out the calls were 0 seconds long. Huh?? So it's like they came in long enough to pop up on the screen, but they weren't really calls. I don't get what happened and neither does H, but I believe him that it's just some weird technology glitch (not unheard of for his phone). And as I said to him also, it doesn't really matter - the point isn't what happened with the past calls, the point is letting him know how much their contacting each other hurts me. Which he seemed to already be aware of, actually - made me feel pretty good since he used to act like I was over-reacting to their friendship/contact."
(((Poet)))
I'm sorry my post made you cry!! Definitely don't dwell on them if it makes you too sad.
I don't recall the exact date on that but I think it was last Spring sometime. That Fall I got "bomb #2" (last October) and this year, in May or so things started to improve... just last week we put our rings back on. It's far from the beginning, definitely and unfortunately. It takes more time and patience than I ever believed I had in me... but the reward is worth it, or at least it has been so far.
I am SO glad you have the anxiety/panic under control. Still do take a look at that breathing stuff I sent you, just in case it helps. I STILL have it happen to me 1-2 times a week - the difference is now I feel it coming as soon as my left hand tenses up, and I can do what's needed to stop it.
You're gonna be OK, Poet.
Good Morning,
Quick note to let you know that I observed my breathing last night when I went to bed, and you're right, I am taking shallow breathes. Will try (oops, not try Neil) I WILL work on that.
hugs to all of you,
Poet
I am calming down, I go through spurts at work because I don't want to be there. I really don't know how I'm making it through. I'm sure my boss is not happy
its the normal up and down of your emotions, poet, when you feel like this. in the immediate aftermath of my bomb, i didn't want to do ANYTHING at work. except, i couldn't pull that off. i had to teach my kids......you can pull yourself together. work should be a great escape for you. compartentalize your mind, take the feelings of dread and fear, lock them away somewhere, and focus on your job...... it's a way of GALing....
and you're welcome. :-)
"Yeah, but I don't want to."
Poet,
If it makes you feel any better, I probably heard these same lines about 100 times. It took a long time to accept, especially considerig that we had 2 yr old twins. Just wanted to let you know you are not alone.
I was just curious if you had started to see an IC (or have been going to one). You have had some difficult times in your life, some of which have had a bearing on your present sitch.....just thought having that extra "professional" person to talk to might help a bit instead of depending upon our background from the school of hard knocks.....both have their benefits.
I have confidence that you can work through this. Another book I found helpful was "His Needs, Her Needs", it may give some insight into how affairs start, how they end, and how to work past them. Granted, I don't think you are in a position to start talking about working past it with your H, but reading it might help to better understand how you got to your present sitch and what your H's mentality was at the time.
Right now, I would focus first on gaining peace within yourself (whether that is from meds, GAL, or some combination), then I would work on creating a comfortable environment within your house, one that you and your H don't feel pressured and can be relaxed. Basically this comes down to putting the bad memories from the past and your fears behind you and just being yourself.
""professional" person to talk to might help a bit ....both have their benefits."
TD,
Yes, I'm seeing an IC, but honestly, she just wants me to get into the mindset of divorcing him and all that goes with it. Not much help in DB. I did tell her about DB and she 'argued' with me about it. I just stuck to my convictions, though.
"...instead of depending upon our background from the school of hard knocks."
Gosh, please don't take this wrong. I don't mean any offense but I feel like I have 'major' problems. Maybe I do. I have to say that this is the first time in my life I've ever been on meds, and I'm a little afraid of that.
I need to explain that the doc put me on Zoloft about a month ago, and then after three weeks, I broke out in rashes and had extreme "allergic reactions," which was *also* a contributer to part of the panic attacks. Anyway, I'm not making excuses for myself but I'm sure this behavior affected my H. He doesn't/didn't know how to handle it either, and that made the sitch worse.
Then, last Thursday, she took me off Zoloft completely, cold turkey. She was also giving me Xanax, which is habit forming. I stopped taking them, by myself a few days ago and so, I was withdrawing.
I know these things are contributors. I hope I'm not as crazy as I sound. You don't have to worry about me anymore. I'll be OK.
Thanks for all your help.
p
Yes, I'm seeing an IC, but honestly, she just wants me to get into the mindset of divorcing him and all that goes with it. Not much help in DB. I did tell her about DB and she 'argued' with me about it. I just stuck to my convictions, though.
Honestly I would find a new IC, one that has the same goals for you and is educated in solution oriented techniques. Michele has a section in her book about how the wrong IC can make things much worse. The first thing I did when I talked to my IC on the phone was tell her my present sitch, and that my goal was to restore and rebuild my M, then I asked her if she would support me in that effort while helping to build a better me. If she said no, then I had other numbers I could call......don't settle, your IC should be working with you not against you.
Did you mean to say that you don't feel like you have major problems or you do feel like you have them? JUst looking to clarify before responding
I agree with TD~ you need a solution based/DB oriented type IC.
Thinking of you and I am so happy you have TD and Neil with you every step of the way!
~Ali
Good morning, Poet!
I'm glad you took a minute to check out the breathing thing. It can make you have some REALLY funky and unexpected "symptoms" like the shakiness. Glad you're going to work on it.
Poet,
Definitely change counselors. You need someone that will work with you, not argue about it.
I chose not to take the meds. I didn't want any trouble getting off them and was afraid of the effects. So much better to just drink a glass of wine once in a while. : ) A joke, but I do like my wine.
Your H didn't know how to handle you or the guilt? Trust me, the WAW's feel guilt and they don't want to. They feel bad when you cry or get upset.
I'm pulling for you to DB. The IC that argued with you is very low in my book right now.
Waving at you Ali and Nik, (((((hugs))))
So? Ali? Good to see you. I'm sorry I've been so neglectful lately. I guess you could say I'm 'going through a DB crisis.' These are what we call "steps?" OMG, I thought they were impasses. You give me hope girl! Like I'm actually in movement. I feel so stagnant, maybe even like a backtracker?
Nik, yes, I was working on it while driving to work this morning. Thank you.
TD, You always ask me the *hardest* questions. The answer you are waiting for, I'm afraid is too loooooong and 'reflective' to give you here/now while I'm on lunch break at work. Can you wait until tonight when I get home? I promise I will answer it tonight. I know you're not a "weekend" DBer, but maybe you can just check in on me and skim it or something and get back to me on Monday, if you want. I hope I'm not overworking you. I'm sure I am.
Quickly though ... you always make me think. I guess that's a good thing. Better to think than to feel, right?
Anyway, the rest of this message really belongs on your thread Neil, but I don't have time to go visit right now. So, here it is. For all the 'boy geeks' I have story that may blow your minds. You could if you want to have your other boy geeks come over here and read it, if you think it worthwhile. ha ha ha
Here goes:
Ya know I'm a librarian right?
Well, yesterday a little 10-year-old boy (let's call him geeky) came and asked me to find him EVERY book we have on WWII. He talked incessantly to me about what he knows about WWII. We found the section in children's, but he'd already read most of them. His young mother was very particular that he was not to read any adult books just yet. (He wanted to tho).
Ok, there's more. He also wanted EVERY book on Star Wars. Yep, you heard right. I found some but they were adults, and his mother was insistent that we were not to get them for him. (Even though he came to me directly after his mother said no).
So, I suggested YA books, those of for the teens, which he is not. His mom then ask the difference between those and children's book. "Are they a bit more graphic?" Well, yeeeaaah!
OK, so he is not allowed to read them either. But I pleased him. I got him a bunch of books that he was, well, satisfied with. So, the question is....is this kid a geek, or what?
cheers all,
poet
Yikes, I didn't see your post, Wifey. Wine is good but whiskey is probably better. No, I'm not a drinker. Maybe I should be.
hugs,
poet
Oops, I have one more question.
I left H a note this morning, (you know, about the clean clothes and all) but I added to it from last night. I said, I "will be off tomorrow so, I'll probably be home later."
TD, is that good enough? Or, do I still need to call him?
poet
I thought that was pretty straight forward and cordial. I don't think you necessarily need to call him, then again I wouldn't purposesly ignore him either. If he calls you in the middle of the day to see how you are doing then either take the call or miss it and get back to him in a "reasonable" time period....i.e. your H is expressing an interest in how you are doing which is a good thing, we want to reward good behavior while not jumping to answer the phone in the same part not being completely rude by not getting back to him thus just making him angry.
This make sense?
My question earlier wasn't meant to be tough, I was just unclear, the statement said one thing but everything else in the post was defending why it would be another.
I will do my best for the weekend, but we may be staying in the city this weekend. I will try though
So, the question is....is this kid a geek, or what?
Brilliant~ IMO .
Not a geek or a nerd!
Yes, I'm seeing an IC, but honestly, she just wants me to get into the mindset of divorcing him and all that goes with it. Not much help in DB. I did tell her about DB and she 'argued' with me about it. I just stuck to my convictions, though.
That's hopeless. Cut her loose! She might be good at her job, but she's trying to take you the opposite of the way you want to go. If you're sure you don't want a divorce, what's the point of paying her good money to nag you about it?
Say you wanted to hire a personal trainer to lose 10 pounds. She looks you up and down and says "We'll start on supplements and powerlifting right away, with a 4,000 calorie/day diet. I'll put 25 pounds of lean muscle on you in two years!"
You coming back to this person? She might be good enough to get you those gains, but you already told her you want the opposite.
So? Ali? Good to see you. I'm sorry I've been so neglectful lately. I guess you could say I'm 'going through a DB crisis.' These are what we call "steps?" OMG, I thought they were impasses. You give me hope girl! Like I'm actually in movement. I feel so stagnant, maybe even like a backtracker?
Please do not feel like you have to apologize to me and what are you even apologizing for?
.... not posting on my thread?
Dont be silly~
heavens....
you have enough on your plate...
I may not always post but I am always reading along. Sometimes I just get sidetracked or hubby comes home and I cant post!
yeah this process at times feel like a roller coaster ride you cant get off of or a bit too stagnant. It just gives you more time to practice your new found skills.
You are in my prayers honey.... we are all here for you.
God bless...
~Ali
OMG Ya'll I was feeling good all the way home and even after I got here. I was not expecting a call and H called me just now.
H: Are you home?
me: yes.
H: I fed buddy.
M: I saw that thank you.
H: It really rained there today.
Me: I went through a major rain storm this morning on the way to work.
H: What are you doing; driving back and forth to work every day now? Do you still have your apt?
Me: I've already told you I'm coming home whenever I feel like it.
H: You're coming home every day now.
M: I know. I'm coming home when I want to.
H: What are you doing with my truck?
Me: I'd already said I was helping someone move furniture.
H: Whose, yours?
Me: No.
H: Your bike is there. What is it doing home?
Me: I never use it down there so I decided to bring it back?
Are you doing OK.
H: I'm fine. I'm not going for your deal, poet.
Me: OK
H: We're getting a divorce. I'm not going to wait eight months and go through counseling and all that. It's ridiculous, and I don't want to do it.
M: I understand.
H: Ok goodnight.
M: Goodnight.
So, I guess I lose all the way around.
Anybody out there for some words of wisdom, please?
hugs,
poet
ok first take a deep breath... and then another.
Where did this convo come from?
What deal?
~A
Hang on a sec and I'll go find it, OK?
hugs
"What I need to know now, is is it possible for me to detach and give him the space and time he is asking for and both of us live in the same house? I just don't know if it is."
Dear Wifey,
((((((hugh hugs))))
I do not know if it is possible for you to give him some space if you are together. Here is what I know about MY sitch. Our lawyers are going to have a "telephone" conference on Tuesday morning, and I'm shattered too.
But, in my defense, my attorney is going to ask for an "uncontested divorce" with the stipulation that we both stay in the marital home at least twice a week together for 6 to 8 months. And, we must also have a visit with a mediator who has a background in marriage counseling and not a background as an attorney, to discuss the terms of the separation agreement.
I do NOT know what the outcome will be. I do know that we both want the house. He wants the D, and I do not.
His 'incentive' will be that I will give him the house if it does not work out, with my half being paid for, of course. All of this rather than fighting it out in court and losing everything.
I do know that it is possible for two divorcing people to live in the same house as long as you both "respect" each other's boundaries. I do know that my H did not "respect" my boundaries on Friday night when he was *whispering* on the phone in the next room, right in FRONT of me, probably to his OW, and so we had a fight and he has pulled away, yet again. But, I'm OK with that right at this moment. I was not OK with it on Friday or yesterday.
(I probably need to add this to my NEW & IMPROVED thread).
Hope this helps,
hugs again,
s
Edited by sgctxok (07/27/08 01:19 PM)
Top
Poet, remember don't take everything they say as gospel truth. I think you handled it well, you didn't push it and you accepted what he said. You may want to revisit it with him at another time. Remember our S's are going through a difficult time too, they feel anxiety, fear etc too and will often act out at those times. That said, he may very well have decided not to follow through on counselling but that may change tomorrow! Stay calm, don't pressure but leave the door open.
I hope this helps.
Ok so whatisis is right, he is on so much pain to he cant see straight.
I am not good at legal stuff my first H screwed me over... and I know you feel terrified at the moment but his behavior is eerily Familiar...........
is is that he cant accept the deal b/c he is breaking the boundaries and is still talking to the Mystery person?
Please calm down honey... it is going to be ok it really is. Even though at the moment it does not seem this way.
My H pressured me into things and would act crazy/crazier cause he had OW~ she was pressuring him...
I hope I am not making this worse...?
I care about you and what happens to you so I need you to get calm and remember that we are here for you.. thNKFULLY MY HUBBY IS OUT OF TOWN FOR THE NITE SO WE CAN "TALK"
~Ali
Why is he worried about a bike?
I know this seems unimportant but I am trying to see his logic even though 'THEY' SEEM TO HAVE NONE?
YAY, I have time and your hubby's away. We can TALK.
First question?
"My H pressured me into things and would act crazy/crazier cause he had OW~ she was pressuring him...I hope I am not making this worse...?"
No, I'm not in panic mode right now. Whatis really put it into perspective for me. Thank you Whatis!!!
Second:
I never thought about OW pressuring him. Wow, nice insight. He probably is.. I never thought about that. Maybe he'll feel the pressure from HER instead of me from now on. Wouldn't THAT be a switch.
Third: Yes, the bike.
I have moved back home, but I'm afraid to tell him because he'll go ballistic and probably push through the D. Ninety percent of my stuff is in storage, but some of it's here. I brought it back little by little and the bike (which is an obvious piece of my property) is under the shed and easily seen and recognized. It seems he has only recognize the bike and not the other 'stuff' so he's not very observant right now -- which is unusual because he's always been observant before. Hmmm!
hugs,
poet
That said, he may very well have decided not to follow through on counselling but that may change tomorrow! Stay calm, don't pressure but leave the door open.
I hope this helps.
THIS IS SO TRUE....
MY H up until the end ( the day we had to go sign papers ) kept going back and forth,, and he even told me he would never go back on his decision.
remember you acnt give up until the FAT LADY SINGS!!!!!!!!
~Ali
Ali,
We seem to be crossing paths and we post. Did you see my answers?
OK, I'll wait for that fat lady to sing and you will be so proud of me, for I have only called him once in two days. That was yesterday morning, AFTER he told me to call him and let him know what I was doing. So, I did.
hugs,
p
I am on the phone with a friend who is having Marriage troubles... be back in a bit~ Sorry... she called several times!
Thanks Ali,
You've done plenty for me tonight. I've felt a lot worse than this. I'm doing OK now. Thanks for your insight.
Hugs and g'night,
poet
Good morning,
I slept well last night. This morning when I awoke and let the dog out, he was all over me. He's acting very strange. I feel sorry for him. Oh well.
poet
Dogs don't understand human dynamics, but they can tell when you're not acting the way they consider "normal" and it worries them. He'll be OK if you take care of yourself.
Sounding good, Poet!
I agree about the dog - hey maybe you can use him as your gauge to how well you're doing "acting as if."
Is the breathing stuff helping with the shakiness?
Afternoon, Nik,
I just joined the other "group" today. Thanks!
Yes, the breathing stuff helps. I'll post more on this later.
Hugs to all,
poet
You're welcome! I'll loook for you.
Hi sweetie...
Moving back in is not for the faint of heart. (Have you talked with your coach recently?)
So no drama.
You did an AMAZING job with this last interaction....I am very very proud of you.
Don't worry about overanalyzing him. Just keep doing things as well as you just did them.
You are NOT going to believe this. He and I have only talked today about the dog. I was going to call him last night because buddy has been shaking his ears and I was worried about him. I did not call him. He called me instead. LOL. That's when the last phone convo took place -- the convo where he said he's not going to go for the deal.
Believe it or not, I have another trick up my sleeve. I just got a call from the mgr. at a library only an hour away. I have an interview on Thurs. YEAAAAAH!
Anyway, H told me to leave the dog's ears alone and he'll deal with it next time he sees buddy. "You'll only hurt him," he said. Jeeesh! Am I a DAFemale or what? My vet taught me how to clean out a dog's ear YEARS ago, so I did it anyway. H just doesn't know it. Buddy's not shaking his head anymore and he seems happier. H thinks I'm inept. Too bad he has such a low opinion of me. Perhaps that's a contributor to my recent panic attacks and bad behavior. I'm doing much better now.
hugs to all.
poet
P.S. I called for a coach appt. for today, but she was full. The secretary said she would let me know if anything opens up. Why? Do you have any pull there? Just wondering.
Hi Poet, I will give this thread a read and offer input son. Thank you for the invitation to your thread.
Saturday, August 02, 2008
OK, here is the post that I promised TwinDad yesterday. He asked me if I was saying I had major problems, or if I was saying I didn’t
Here is my answer:
Nik helped me to put this into a little bit of a perspective, when she told me to look for short breathtaking signs in my behavior. Yes, I was having panic attacks, but there is more to it than that.
About a month ago, I was in the crying, desperate, pleading stage with my H. I would be at work or at my apt. 120 miles away from home and feeling totally powerless and helpless to change/fix my sitch with him. He was distancing himself continually and on a regular basis, and I was becoming more and more distressed. I found myself in a panic state, and I couldn’t/ didn’t understand it because I cannot ever remember feeling this way, except maybe once, after my first divorce, but for totally different reasons.
Anyway, I went to the doctor, who prescribed Zoloft, Xanax AND sleeping pills, which I was taking all three and never took drugs before. I then tried to stop the Xanax because I heard they were addictive, and I do not want to go there. I started having even more severe panic attacks at this time. And, these are the reasons: 1. I was withdrawing from Xanax. 2. I was ALLERGIC to the Zoloft and started having allergic reactions, which included but were not limited to, itching dry skin and red blisterery rash-like symptoms, hives, nervousness, headaches etc.
I figure enough out to stop them ‘cold turkey’ last week sometime. But, in the meantime, my sitch was just getting worse and worse. I was calling H constantly. He did not understand my physical or my mental state at the time, and he was freaking out too. In fact, I learned from my attorney, that his attorney told my attorney that I called him at work “30 times.” I’m sure he plans to use this info to strengthen his case. I hope I can mitigate it with my explanation here.
Anyway, to make matters worse, I began shaking and falling apart mentally BECAUSE I went off the meds cold turkey. I wasn’t myself for a long time. I’m just starting to feel more confident. I still have the shakes a little, but the stronger I am at resisting the Xanax, the better I am becoming. My skin is SOOOOOOO dry, right now. It's like I'm peeling from sunburn or something. I've always had good sking and I'm a little upset about this. I hope that it is just healing and there is no more to it than that.
These are the things I feel that have contributed to my problems at hand. I hope you do not look at me in a different light. It is not my normal self. I’ve always been pretty much independent and confident and useful to society.
Cheers,
Suzanne
"...independent and confident and useful to society." WOW! Did I just say that? Hmmm, I guess I do have some positive traits.
ok, one quick thing to add here Poet :
1. What are you doing for yourself? I see a LOT of talk here a bout your relationship, but I don't see or read about you doing anything other than hovering around your H or wondering what he's doing when H is not being hovered around?
My advice is that you find THREE things to do with yourself. These three things must be physically active things, not reading, or anything that will allow you to get lazy and let your mind wander to unpleasant places.
a. Go swimming
b. Go biking
c. Join a jogging club
d. Learn karate
e. volunteer at a vet clinic
There a a million things you can do with your time. This will give your mind a chance to rest and reduce your stress. What I found was when I started doing something other than worry about my relationship, I found I was less anxious, less exhausted, and less stresed out. My relationship did'nt change, but I did. Its therapy that does NOT dry your skin out, try it.
2. I am not sure about all the phone calls. I sense your H is feeling anger, guilt, stress, fear, anxiety, etc. If he thinks that therapy takes eight months for a positive response he's misinformed. Tell him there are weekend retreats couples can go to that turn things in a positive direction in just days.
3. His problem is he's miserable, so all he sees is hopelessness everywhere. YOU need to bring that hope to him. You need to show him that he will feel better being around you rather than worse. This is a hard one to pull of, but it can help tremendously.
4. I think we need to do some one eighties here. your husband sounds like he thinks he has everything all figured out. I think if you throw him a few unexpected curve balls this may shock him a bit. He's kidding himself if he thinks divorce is a less destructive and much quicker solution to his pain. It will take him a LOT LONGER to get over you and his marital failures using his route alone than it would with you and a good marital therapist. Find some ways to shock him, show him you are a different person. You are reading like you are pursuing him and that will NOT help you.
5. I think you need to create some distance here. You are phoning him all the time, and telling him everything you are doing, reporting your whole day. He has no need to think or worry or FEEL for you at all. You are telling him you are all ok and he doen'st have to worry, so he can set his thoughts of you aside. You don't want this, you WANT him thinking about you, you WANT him to be working on his feelings for you. You need to give him a reason to look for that right now. You detaching would help a lot there.
Just tell him you are dealing with some problems, but you are working on them, and don't talk to him about it, change the subject. Also, talk on the phone a lot, laugh with someone on the phone and don't tell him who it was. Just say "it wasn't anyone you know" and leave it there.
You need to shake his world up a bit, he's way too comfortable. Do the one eighties, distance yourself a bit, go have some fun and do some things for yourself. Avoid his questions he's using to ease his guilt. Let him beat himself up a bit...you are taking his hands away from him and telling him you are fine...stop it. Let him beat himself up. Give him a LOT o fmixed signals. He's way too comfortable...shake up his world so he has to pursue you.
Hi ((((Suzanne))))!
There is nothing I can add to Mark's excellent post, so I'm just letting you know that I'm thinking of you.
I'm glad you've made it home; now hang in there, you've changed a lot already, keep up the good work.
(((((HUGS)))))
not at all. i've been watching your thread....just really don't have anything insightful to add....actually, i've been posting on other people's threads a bit.....thought you were getting some really good advice..
don't worry, i'm still here!!! :-)
OK Mark,
Here is what I did....I called him again this morning, and I did find out a few things.
Also, I gotta tell ya....he has not been asking me any questions about my GAL. And I have not told him either. Our conversations have been essentially going nowhere.
But today, I took your advice and said, "I am getting a life. You just don't know it because you haven't asked." He said, "And I don't want to know." And I said, "And, that OK because I don't want you to know either. But, I've been doing a lot."
You know my story from the rest of my thread. You know how much GALing I've been doing. But for some reason, some of the people on this board seem to overlook what all I've done so far. OH well, that's OK. I'm doing it, and I'm feeling good about it too, so that's all that matters, right?
Thanks for listening.
hugs,
poet
P.S. I have been swimming, just not as much at I should.
Hi poet,
I've just read this thread.
Great job on the swimming- it's great GAL.
On the phone call- please stop calling your H. Don't tell him your GALing, just DO IT; the part about "......because you haven't asked" sounded like pressure/an accusation to me.
Give him some space to wonder what you're up to, and time to get curious. This will take longer than you think, but then and only then will start moving towards you.
Glad you're feeling good about your GAL! What are you doing apart from swimming (sorry if I missed it- I read the thread quickly but haven't done the others yet)
OD
Hi Poet,
Just read this thread. What comes across to me is how stressed out your H is. Any kind of pressure seems to freak him out a lot. So, as many have said, back off the phone calls and try to be more in sync with his one or two points of contact a day. That really is quite a lot (well, compared to my sitch it is). Remove as much pressure as possible, but add some mystery to your life. Also, be supportive and don't criticise or respond negtively, unless you feel very strongly.
Your H is very sensitive to any feeling of being pushed in a direction where he doesn't want to go. If he has a direction, and he's certainly not sure, it's towards D. So, anything that is thrown in his path stresses him, really stresses him (I know you are very stressed too). As someone else has said, he's clinging to a mantra that things will get better once he sorts this out. This is his hope. However, what strikes me as strange is that it feels to me that there must be more stress factors than just your R. Is there anything else going on here or was there?
How did this start? What did he say? How did it come out? Do you know anything about the OW? Who is she and what relationship has she had with him in the past, if any (don't snoop though please).
Hope you're doing ok.
Max
One_Day read my mind.
The finding fun/ get a life tactic is NOT designed for you to behave like a trained seal, checking his reaction at your every move.
The get a life tactic is for YOU to find something to do to make you feel better so you don't concentrate on him. If your GAL tactics are all done motivated to get his interest you aren't getting a life. You are essentially walking forward while looking behind you - it doesn't work very well.
GAL means to do something fun for yourself and NOT tell him, and NOT hope he pays attention, and NOT pursue him. If you call him to tell him you are getting a life you are pursuing him and using the GAL activities as ammunition. My dear, that does not work.
You CAN leave subtle hints around, but it means you must LEAVE him ALONE. If you are swimming, leave the swimming pool schedule on a desk someplace or leave your swim bag by the door. Or even better have some friends come by the house to pick you up and go as a group. But it means you do NOT APPROACH HIM DIRECTLY on what you are doing.
You called him up, told him outright you were doing things, and then criticized him for not noticing - this is PURSUIT. You are not supposed to be doing these activities like a dog rolls around for biscuits. You lose your dignity when you do that, and its not sexy or inviting - its annoying my dear.
The objective is to do these things and leave HIM to THINK, give HIM some space to BREATHE. You are doing activities my dear, but you are sabotaging any positive impact they may have when you call him up to report on them directly.
If you can list what you are doing specifically we can help you with some ideas on how to leave hints for him to see what you are doing. But they have to be hints, expose him in a very subtle way that the OLD YOU is GONE and the NEW YOU is HERE. But it has to be subtle and non-invasive. You have to bait him a bit here and wait for him to bite. You calling him effectively means you are diving in the water to chase after the fish. You will just scare him away.
My advice is for you to skip a call now and then. He said to call twice - FORGET TO CALL.
Leave him some space to breathe, to realize HE is not the linchpin of your existence. When you call him you put a lot of pressure on him to be the exclusive motivator of your life and he can't take that. He needs to feel like you are surviving on your own. He needs to feel like he can breathe around you. HE is walking on eggshells around YOU. That's why he doesn't want to be around.
You need to be casual about him, let him know he can be part of your life, but that if he makes a mistake, if he is late, or has something to do outside of your life that you won't turn into a hornets nest of need. Calling him up to report what you have been doing and criticizing him for not noticing is NOT casual, its NEEDY. No one likes a big ball of need calling them twice a day.
Sorry to bullet my point home here but this has been said already and it doesn't seem to be sinking in. He DOES love you, but you need to leave him alone and give him a REASON to seek you out. You are just giving him reasons to avoid you.
Your phone conversations are the same thing. You are stressing him out. He sits there trying to figure out what to say to you and you are there like some drama queen waiting to react. He can SENSE that. You are putting way too much pressure on him. When you pressure people they RUN AWAY. Unfortunately they end up looking for company when they get to a safe place which ends up making matters worse.
Call him and act like his call isnt' that important, or better yet wait for him to call. Have some friends over and only pay half attention to the call. Leave him feeling like he HAS to CHASE you a bit to get to you again.
There are ways to bring this guy around, but hanging on his ankles over every phone call is NOT inviting or attractive.
What I would like to see you do is make a list here of all the activities you are doing outside of your H and talk about THOSE a bit. I for one am interested in hearing what you are doing.
I will make one more point :
There are two tactics at work when you find some fun for yourself. I don't like to call it get a life because I find that insulting. I call it finding fun. It better expresses the goal in mind.
Anyways, if you put 100% into you, then it gives him a LOT to think about :
1. Why would I leave this adventurous woman?
2. Why don't I want to be around this sexy woman?
3. Why can't I just calm myself down and enjoy myself with her?
4. Why am I being such a hard-ass when she's being so great?
5. Why am I so scared of something this great?
6. What am I waiting for?
7. Why am I making such a mess of things when she is doing so much that makes things fun and inviting?
Believe me, some of this CAN be triggered in his mind, but you need to
a. STOP your bad habits - pursuit (read up on the stop the pursuit passage in divorce remedy - you arne't following it)
b. START some good habits - find some fun and bring that fun into your home and your life
If you do a AND b, it forces his conscience out in the open and lets his conscience to the work for you, it forces those questions on him. But until you do a and b, he will never hear those questions.
If you want him questioning what he's doing then you need to do a and b above.
Also, if you can think of anything specifically that he complained about before he wanted a divorce that would help zero in on what was/still is motivating him to leave.
Conscience can't do its work if you keep harassing him with the phone. I would just stop calling and leave him to call you.
And YOu should end the call FIRST, tell him you are busy and have to go. My guess is you call him most of the time and he ends the call most of the time as well. Do the 180 and reverse that because what you are doing is just smothering him.
MarkF----
Awesome posts.
I was thinking about copying them and stickying them....but I'd rather the thread be started by YOU.
Why don't you start a thread and copy these gems into them, and I'll sticky it.
MarkF----
Awesome posts.
I was thinking about copying them and stickying them....but I'd rather the thread be started by YOU.
Why don't you start a thread and copy these gems into them, and I'll sticky it.
I am actually trying not to start any of my own threads, there is a good chance my wife may find this site and read everything I have posted. :P
If I knew it could be hidden or removed in a button click I would put up whatever, but thank you.
I have been reading a LOT of material from a lot of different places and I have also seen the impacts of doing the right things and doing the wrong things.
I hope this stuff helps you out poet.
Mark,
You BET it does. I'm actually laughing at what an arse I'm being. What a DUNCE I am. Jeeeeesh!
"Sorry to bullet my point home here but this has been said already and it doesn't seem to be sinking in."
Oh, it's sinking in alright. It's just not STICKING! No less the ten people on these boards have told me not to call him, and I still keep doing it. I'm ****in' sick about it. I cannot tell you how programmed it has become.
When he asked my why I keep calling him, I said, "because I want to hear your voice". (shaking my head in terror over my idiocyncracy). I'm thinking about going to a hypnotist and asking her if she can stop me with hypnosis.
Anyways, here is a list of things I've been doing over the past two weeks, besides working long hours, of course.
1. Going to church with and without friends.
2. Renting a storage unit.
3. Applied for a job half as far away from home.
4. Driving to work two hours a day and back two hours for two weeks.
5. Borrowing my H's truck three times and virtually moving in back home (with help from one man in each place - called Angels of Mercy - it's a church thing).
6. Talking to my pastor.
7. Cleaning up the apt. and getting electricity and water shut off. (I'm all moved out now. That was very stressful on me because I was working a full day and then going to the apt. to move and clean, and then driving home two hours). Ugh!
8. Watching movies, but not really getting into them. (I watched the "Bank Job" last night).
9. Eating out a lot and cooking dinners for myself and H too. (I leave them for him, and sometimes he bites, and sometimes he does not).
10. Playing with the dog.
11. Swimming
12. Reading DB stuff on the here mostly and in some of the books.
13. Unpacking and hiding some of my things around the house. (I think this might be what you're calling a "subtle" hint. H did notice the bike, if you remember from an earlier post.
14. And last but not least; just yesterday, I got a call from the mgr. of that job I applied for closer to home. I have an interview on Thursday, my day off.
Oops, I forgot one. H's always taken the garbage in the past and dumped off on his way to work. H's not doing that now, since I started coming home every night. So, today, I drove around looking for a place to dump it because the dump station is not open on Sunday.
Plus, I went grocery shopping today and made another meatloaf. I also bought some chicken and will make something else tomorrow night after I get home from work at 8:30 p.m.
What's the next question? I have to go back and look.
Thanks Mark. I'm hoping I can FINALLY let this phone stuff stick
poet
Mark has
EXCELLENT ADVICE s~
PLEASE USE IT~
Also dont "Try" anymore love ... please "do" the things you are being told will work. I know they seem hard but they are quite neccessary for your sanity and his.
Remember it may not seem like it but he is hurting too and needs space.
The advice he gave you is stellar alot of good things.... all my best to you and I hope you are doing well!
I always took it as a blessing from God when I got male POV from fellow posters....
I always seemed to have it during my 2 years here.
For me personally it helped keep me centered and see things differently.
They seemed to look at my behavior and spit out a solution or tell me to stop this or that. Well I must add Brandnewday and Oldtimer were awesome with a one sentence 2x4 too and they were Women.
Well you know what I am trying to say ....I hope.
I never had Male friends and all my Women friends would say just leave him. Men somehow see what needs to be done ,when we are letting our emotions run amuck, and find solutions.
They are more rational than emotional....
IMO~ of course and I am sorry if it doesnt sound PC.
I really feel it helped me tremendously.
Ok I probably made no sense....
IN OTHER WORDS~
Use these blessings S~ Please!!!
God bless...
~Ali
OH MY GOSH -- An update!
This one's a thumbs up for me, I think, for not reacting.
I was just on the phone with my brother, and we were talking about H and the D. He was suggesting to me that I should definitely tell my atty. about the meds. and how they are messing me up and how I can't seem to make any decisions right now because I'm too stressed out. He wants me to find out if I can slow the D down that way. I'm going to have to ask.
Anyway, my point is... while on the phone with my brother, H called in, and my brother said, "Don't answer it," which I didn't, of course. My brother was also telling me how my nephew up and left his own wife and moved to the big apple and left her with a six-month old baby (how immature is HE)? Ugh.
Anyway, H didn't leave a message but then immediately called the home phone, and my brother told me not to answer it. His comment was, "Do you think this might be a life threatening situation or is he on his death bed and needs to tell you something?" Of course, I said no. "Then don't answer it, and pull the plug and take the phone off the hook." I didn't do that part.
But after I got off the phone with my brother, H called again on my cell and left a message. He sounded low (maybe even tearful, a little). I was concerned.
His message said, "Ya know, you call me and I do answer, S. I might get mad at ya, but I do answer every now and then. And I guess you're mad now. You say you're not going to call; for me to call you but then you don't answer. So, I, I don't know what to say, S. Goodbye."
Ok, so I felt his hurt and called him back. He did not answer this time. So, I left a message explaining I was on the phone with my brother, and if he wanted to talk that I'll be here.
He called back few minutes later. He was annoyed with me because I did not answer. I tried to explain to him that I was listening to my brother about my own nephew's troubles. He left his wife and baby of six months, and I guess I was sounding a little upset. H says, "You sound upset." I say, "Yes, it's upsetting." H says, "You don't have any reason to be upset, it's not you, etc., etc."
Jeesssh!
I'm really beginning to see how unscrewed his head is.... Gosh, is he made of wood?
Anyway, I tried to validate his feelings about that as best I could, saying it's my family and it is upsetting, and I will try to understand your way of thinking about it, blah, blah.
Then, I asked him if he got my message about the meatloaf. He said yes. I told him to take half of it, if he comes home tomorrow.
That was his cue. He immediately jumped on it.
H: Are you coming home tomorrow?
Me: I don't know.
H: Are you coming home evrey night now?
Me: Ya know, you keep asking me the same questions over and over, and I keep giving you the same answer. I come home when I feel like it.
Then he got mad, and I blanked out the rest. He ended up hanging up on me. And NOW I know what Neil means by what he says when he says, "That's his anger, not yours. So, don't react."
Thank you, Neil
poet
"Men somehow see what needs to be done ,when we are letting our emotions run amuck, and find solutions."
LOVE you, Ali.
Gotta admit tho. Half the time, I don't understand what you're talking about with your "abbreviations." I'm still learning them. I have go look a couple of them up, ones you just used.
(((((((((Ali, Mark, Neil, and, of course, I can't forget TwinDad))))))))))
((((((((Wifey, Stella, SG, Max, OD, Arthur, Bear, Nik and everyone else I might have missed))))))))))))))
I feel extremely blessed. And, ya know what? I'm starthing to believe my H really DOES still love me, in some sort of weird/abnormal/strange way.
love you all,
Poet!
ok Poet, I am gonna say this again, but I wont repeat myself too many times here :
1. Stop calling him.
2. Stop cooking for him.
3. Stop making your ear available to him.
4. Stop babying him.
Take your damn dignity back and detach.
He asked you to call him back, and then he baited you into an argument, and then YOU ended up looking like the bad guy. He is unconsiously sabotaging your relationship to ease his guilt - stop taking the bait and stop letting him do that.
Any interaction you should have should leave him feeling MORE like reconciling than LESS, but that's not what is happening, and its him baiting you into the damage and YOU taking the bait. Stop it.
The list of activities you put there was mostly about your relationship, moving back home, etc. How on earth is cooking dinner for your husband getting a LIFE? Sorry I dont want to be mean here, but are you reading what you are writing? That get a life list is "move back closer to husband so I can pursue him more" list.
The only valid one in there was the swimming, the dog, and the movies...and movies are passive, GAL actions should be active to keep you moving and stimulated.
Sorry, but the rest of that is pursuit and you moving back into your home, which I do reccomend, but its not you getting a life.
I think you need to read the GAL section from DR again and then look atyour list and ask yourself if you are bieng totally honest here.
Hypnotist? No, you need DISTRACTIONS, and swimming is the only one you have offered yourself. And TWO WEEKS is NOT enough TIME to GAL, it should be done for several months before you look for a response from your spouse.
Let me get this right :
1. You move back into your home, hide your things there, spend most of your time doing and thinking about how your breathe and movement will affect your husband.
2. Then you call him up and criticize him for not recongizing all the wonderful changes in yoruself you have made over the last mere two weeks?
How many times have you gone swimming?
Stop babying that overgrown child and find some fun for yourself my dear, or you will completely drive him away.
You are throwing a pillow of panic over his face every move you make. Knock it off he's stressed enough as it is.
You want to make YOU a STRESS FREE FUN person to be around, you want to be something that EASES his stress, not aggravates it.
My guess is if he asked you to sleep with him right now you would give in to that too. YOU need to take your life back and show him you are be fun to be around and that HE is not the beginning and the end of your world. THAT will take a load off his mind.
I am sorry poet, and I applaud your moving back in. Its hard to do, and a little scary, but you just keep dodging his bullets.
Be casual, don't panic if he asks, just tell him what you have been saying, but DONT INSULT HIM. Your reply sounded a BIT insulting and we dont want to do that either.
Just say I am here when i want to be here and elsewhere when I want to be elsewhere. That's more or less what you have beeen saying so far, which is excellent.
Stop doing his laundry, stop cooking his meals, stop calling him, stop treating him like some big baby. If you treat him like a baby he will act like one. Treat him like an adult and he will act like one...eventually.
You are NOT detaching. You are pursuing and deluding yourself.
Once he stops with this divorce idea THEN you can START to do some nice things like cooking him a dinner, but as long as he is moving AWAY FROM YOU, then you need to let him do that and work on yourself.
Get a Life, simply put is your classic "24 days to live" scenario.
Imagine you just went to your doctors office and he says you have less than one month to live. Is this what you will do with those 24 days?
1. Going to church with and without friends.
2. Renting a storage unit.
3. Applied for a job half as far away from home.
4. Driving to work two hours a day and back two hours for two weeks.
5. Borrowing my H's truck three times and virtually moving in back home (with help from one man in each place - called Angels of Mercy - it's a church thing).
6. Talking to my pastor.
7. Cleaning up the apt. and getting electricity and water shut off. (I'm all moved out now. That was very stressful on me because I was working a full day and then going to the apt. to move and clean, and then driving home two hours). Ugh!
8. Watching movies, but not really getting into them. (I watched the "Bank Job" last night).
9. Eating out a lot and cooking dinners for myself and H too. (I leave them for him, and sometimes he bites, and sometimes he does not).
10. Playing with the dog.
11. Swimming
12. Reading DB stuff on the here mostly and in some of the books.
13. Unpacking and hiding some of my things around the house. (I think this might be what you're calling a "subtle" hint. H did notice the bike, if you remember from an earlier post.
14. And last but not least; just yesterday, I got a call from the mgr. of that job I applied for closer to home. I have an interview on Thursday, my day off.
Seriously...you have one month to live and this is what you have to show the man upstairs?
Go skydive
Go run a marathon
Go dancing
Go Horseback riding
Go fly a kite
Go to a kareokee bar and sing your heart out
Go buy yourself a new wardrobe
Go to Tahiti
Go plant a tree
Go join the theatre
That is getting a life, this person here knows how to live, they understand that living without breathing is a tragedy and they dont' waste a minute of it.
THAT is the cool person that your husband would want to be around, and that is a person that won't give a damn if their husband is having an affair and his head is all messed up.
That is where you are aiming my dear...your list is a bit short of that.
Note : I haven't done all of these either, its a sample. I did start guitar lessons, I did join a theatre part time, I did plant a tree, I did take dance lessons, and I did buy myself a new wardrobe. It feels GREAT.
OK, Mark,
I think I get the point. Maybe I'll go horseback riding next Sunday. I'm not sure about the skydiving. I did do a little bit/well a lot of gambling a couple of months ago when the bomb dropped. That didn't make me feel good tho.
I did go to the movies. I have bought some new clothes. I'm just now settling into the home, and now I have a tough job interview coming up. Other than that, I'll soon have a good time of it, OK?
I gotta tell ya tho, this is the opposite of what I've been told. I've been told to be loving to him. I see this as another 180 from what I've been told to do. Yikes! My head is now spinning. Maybe I'll take the dog to the beach in a couple of weeks. I only have a whole weekend off once a month.
You gave me good advice. I've been known to be neglectful of my H in the past, during our M. So, I see this as a bit more of the same. But, I'll take this as another turn in the road. Thank you for your advice. I feel much stronger now than I did this morning.
poet
P.S. Maybe I'll go "buy" a kite!
P.S.S. I did sing my heart out this morning. Amazing Grace, TD. And it sounded purdy dern good!
Even if it is more of the same..it's important NOW.
When he dances in, you are loving, but not pursuing. Your coach did not tell you to pursue him and it's a fine line.
S-
just do your thing. don't ask. don't tell. just do it. become happy with yourself, then you can work on things.
and for the love of god...please...stop calling him....you know better and are a better person than this...it only feeds into his perception..cmon....
ok...no more 2x4....
EDITED – ADVERTISING is NOT ALLOWED. You must comply with the DivorceBusting.com Board Rules if you would like to continue the privilege of posting here.You need to read that second one bigtime.
Being LOVING to him does not mean treat him like an infant.
It means don't say anything hurtful.
And you can be loving for a while, but if it pushes him away, which it appears to be doing, then you need to distance yourself.
He has complained about all the calls, he has complained about you being at your house often, he clearly finds your presence difficult for him. Smothering him is NOT going to help you, so LOVING in this sense is subject to some interpretation.
Sorry, but being loving sometimes means hurting someone. Read the articles I posted to you. The second one in particular. The first one may not be all that relevant, but it was important that you know it.
Mark,
I have just read the second article twice. The first time, I laughed halfway through it. (Probably nervous laughter because I could sense what was coming). Then, I cried through the second half.
After reading it the second time, I realized "This is *tough love.*" I've done this *tough love* before, with other people who I sponsored in step groups. I've never done it with someone I love. It's going to be incredibly hard, but - with coaching and direction - I think I can.
Thank you for your insight. How do you find these apprapo articles? I'll read the first one tomorrow.
goodnight and God bless.
poet
P.S. I'm not an idiot. I'm just a hard-headed woman.
Yes, I want to be missed.
Thank you. You've worn me out, Mark and I REALLY appreciate it because I haven't been sleeping well.
So, I'm going to bed and hopefully to sleep on it.
Goodnight, m'friend.
Goodnight and thank you for a wonderful thought-provoking and perspective-clearing day.
poet
As hard or painful as it is to read what Mark is saying..... I was about to ask if GOD, SENT HIM TO YOU.
SERIOUSLY....
YOU CAN CHOOSE TO SAY TO YOURSELF I do not do those things and I am being loving but he is actually right you are trying to hard and then also getting frustrated with him and then ...
what stuck out to me is when you said I will come home when I feel like it....
is that more of the same?
or when you called to say I was on the phone with Brother
is that more of the same?
Example....
I was at a outdoor party 2 summers ago.
((( and hubby was having the "time of his life" with OW ( I wasnt 100% sure yet))))
I got nervous.
My Kids were having a blast. by the way....
I said to MY BROTHER.
I have to go home... ( in a panic more than just a comment).
What if XXXXXX comes home right now?
My brother says to me...
"
If he comes home right now and gets mad cause you arent there then he is the same old XXXXXX."
LIGHTBULB went on and I almost started crying.
He was right....
I called him ( my husband )the next day.
After he didnt call me and he was ANNOYED AS HELL
You arent the only one that makse mistakes.
But I need you to get up and brush your knees off and get to work.
You will most likely make some small mistakes along the way.
BUT I need you to put your nose to the grindstone and start doing... no more trying.
YOU CAN DO IT AND WE ARE HERE FOR YOU...
I have been where you are Suzanne.... but you are fighting this so to speak.
It is time to get to work love... it is going to be hard as hell but you can do it.
Have a goodnite and think about this please.
You need to accept this is going to hurt like hell and you will make it thru~
God bless..
~Ali
Thank you Ali, but one point to add, this doesn't hurt as much as you might think.
Poet, your husband is in a downward cycle, hes miserable, stressed out, panicking, angry, his whole world is a mess and hes' added an OW to just make this that much worse.
You pusuing him is you jumping into that nightare too. Just step OUT of it by detaching. My wife created a miserable world for hserlf too, and dragged me into it with her OM. Once I got OUT of that world and started creating one for MYSELF that was HEALTHY I felt a LOT better.
This shoudlnt HURT it will actually feel BETTER. Right now you are in pain, but if you just step OUT Of this ridiculous drama your H is creating you will be much better off...his channel is miserable and painful, change the channel and let him be miserable.
Spouses OFTEN DO come around when you tune them out and find something better to do with your time. Mine is coming around and others have too.
Just refuse to be part of the sick little world they have created for themselves...he is dragging you into it, just dont fight with him, don't argue, dont answer HIS QUESTTIONS IEHTER...when he watns to know where you have been tell him "doing lots of exciting heealthy things for myself" and leave it there.
When i started doing stuff outside my home and ans't around my WIFE got REAL NOSY and WORRIED.
You just have to tune these children out and change the channel for yourself to something more enjoyable.
Do it, it wont hurt, trust me, it hurts a lot worse watching and living his drama.
Find some FUN.
I wanted to say one last thing before I went to bed.
Please dont feel like I am being unsupportive or Mark is, or anyone here for that matter.
I used to be where you are honey. In immense pain that seemed to have no end and confused as to when the roller coaster ride would end.....
I used to go to bed early cause it hurt too much to stay awake, I used to live on Coffee and Cigarettes. I also used to cry myself to sleep at nite. I used to curl my hair everyday every last piece it goes to the middle of my back. Just to find things to do so I wouldnt call him.
I could go on forever.... it was horrific.
But I do know that as much as I could I walked the walk.
I also had set my mini goals and tackled them one at a time.
Mark also made me remember the difference between supposedly loving them and babying them.
My H said he felt like I never loved him either.
NEGLECTED....
I dont believe it is so much the doing it is more in the action.
and you need to get stronger love and stop reacting.
IT WILL NOT HAPPEN OVERNITE... IT WILL TAKE TIME. I am proud of you honey, I just want to see you focus more on you and less on him.
You are still too much under his thumb. Fine line... between loving and overloving....
It is alot to take in.
Read it and reread it.
*Marks posts*
And please when you can re-read DR.
and get a highlighter!
Love you too hun , we are here for you.
Take care and God bless....
~Ali
Mark, please note the edit above. I hope you will comply because your advice is great, and we want you to stick around.