Last thread...part 5
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1525008#Post1525008i just wanted to say thanks to all the new friends i've made for putting up with my impatience and giving me the strength to find the patience within myself to deal with my sitch. there really is a tiny light at the end of the tunnel. But it could be closed off just as quickly if i press things.
im sure i will have many more moments of impatience in this.
Neil,
Stay proud, buddy. You are doing a great job! Seriously. I wouldn't say that if I didn't think it were true. You keep saying you're impatient, but believe me, you are much more patient than I have been. I blew it, with my impatience.
hugs to you,
s
just journaling....a bit....
found a video on my phone that my W made with D2 in October. oh, how things have changed in 9 months.....:-( kinda made me sad. I miss her. Miss the family thing. I was good until i saw that.....
suzanne-
trust me, i am not patient. It's only within the last 7 weeks that i've developed this apparant patience LOL.....the first 3 and 1/2 months were horrible for me....made the sitch a helluva lot worse than it needed to be.....
little more journaling...
W just said goodnite to 2d's. we chatted a bit....i asked her opinion on taking them to county fair....she said IDK....don't want them to expect something every time...like expect to be entertained....then i said something about them going to see the animals...and she seemed to open up to the idea more. She said we'll think about it some more...
here's my question......she doesn't want them to expect something every time.........WTF does that mean? good or bad?
i think i'm over analyzing...but...does that imply there are more things in the future for us to do together with the girls?
Uhm, yeah. Overanalyzing.
She doesn't want the kids to expect grand entertainment everytime you're together.
That's it I think.
Relax.
So, did you have a good interaction while she was there?
At one point in my sitch I had thought about getting a little glass vase and putting one of those decorative pebbles in it everytime we had a good interaction of some kind. The plan was to do something special with the vase when it was filled.
Maybe you should think of something tangible to show yourself the kind of progress being made.
Blessings,
Bill
everyone has there place where they think...mine happens to be in the shower....
i decided to do some R evaluation.....
here's what i came up with...9 days ago Mrs Smartcookie asked me to rate my R with my W. At the time I said a 1. A couple of days prior to that, I set some goals for myself...here they are:
I want to make my wife Smile
I want her to feel comfortable talking to me about things other than our sitch
I want to be able to spend QT wit hher and the kids
I want to give her "words of affirmation"
I want to be creative in trying to speak her LL.
I have met everyone one of these goals...altho the last one is more difficult...
Since that point...we have:
increased our dialogue.........95% of the time its positive
Sent each other pix messages of the kids... i sent her a video message today of the kids saying hi to her
Taken the kids for haircuts (initiated by her)
Played with the kids by the pool and gone out to dinner as a "family" (again, initiated by her)
Set a date for another family outing to kiddie park
Tentatively scheduled more family time this week at county fair
shes' talked to me about work
she's asked about my family/talked about hers
she's vented to me about ppl who talk about our sitch behind our backs
How would i rate us now? 2.5 (perhaps others would think its higher, but i have this self doubt thing working against me LOL)
What would it take to bring it up another 1/2 point?
More time together with kids
pix messages. maybe her own video of the kids
Talk longer on the phone....or have our own convo separate from saying goodnite to the kids (that would take us up a full point...LOL)
Here are my new goals...
I want to continue to make my W smile when she's around me
I want to continue to increase her confidence and comfortableness in talking to me
I want to continue to find innovative ways to speak her LL (again, more difficult...could use some ideas here.....she likes gifts)
I want to continue to give her words of affirmation
I want to increase the amount of QT I spend with her and the girls together
I want to be "myself" when i am around her...and not walk on eggshells worrying about saying something wrong
I want to continue to work on myself, esp. at expressing my emotions (not necessairly to her...yet)
I want to work on having patience
This is a bit of a long term goal......... but I want to spend QT with JUST HER (not neccessarily a 'date' per se) by the end of August.
I probably will need to add more, but i like those. they are working for me
Niel--
I LOVE your goals list! I am thinking that maybe I need to revisit my sitch and try to do the same--give me something tangible to work with SG said we would work on that during KLA< so that will be good.
I think things are going well and she is seeing a more open side of you, that is very good. Keep it up!
SMW
((Neil)), just checking on you. A 1 to a 2.5 in 9 days. Cool !! How many days to a 3.....? Keep tracking it, you're doing great. Noticing the positives is a really good thing.
Bills right, you are overanalyzing, & she just doesn't want the kids to "expect" something big each time.
I've seen a few of the dads here turn into the "party" dad when they have the kids. Almost like competing with the wife for the kids affection. It's not a good pattern. Kids want you. Undivided attention with you. That's all.
When your kids walk into the room do your eyes light up ???? Practice in the mirror, until you can make your eyes light up. Then do it each time your kids walk in. Watch their reaction.
Hugs.
Your list of goals are good!
Seeing yours helped clarify some of the questions that I have about what goals should look like.
I'm really glad that things are progressing nicely for you! This is such a long road. I know mine is just beginning but I hope one day I will be where you are at.
Keep working! An unexamined life is not worth living!
B
I've seen a few of the dads here turn into the "party" dad when they have the kids.
i'm definitly not trying to do that.....the big things we do together most days is go to the playground and color...LOL...we also play silly stuff. I don't want to be just the "fun" dad..and I definitly don' want to compete with my W
When your kids walk into the room do your eyes light up ???? Practice in the mirror, until you can make your eyes light up. Then do it each time your kids walk in. Watch their reaction.
oh yes. I don't even have to practice this...
i've always prided myself on being a good dad....admittedly lost sight of that for a bit during the early parts of this sitch, but i really that part of my life now......
Good job on the goals, Neil.
SG has another site where we can put our goals too. I added three the other day. Maybe I'll even put them in my thread. One of them already came true. LOL H spends more time at home when I'm there.
s
Hi Neil...good job!
Let's refine them....and try to keep only 2 or 3 DB goals. DB goals are action oriented, positively stated, small, attainable in the next 2 weeks (or so)...things you Want More OF.
So you have them listed as things you will do....but they are positive and small enough. So here's the tweak:
I want to make my wife Smile Simple. Newly stated:
She will smile at me.
I want her to feel comfortable talking to me about things other than our sitch
This is vague. How will you know when she is comfortable? What will she be saying? Where will you be? What will she talk about?
I want to be able to spend QT wit hher and the kids Again this is vague. What will you be doing? Are you at your house having a movie night? Will you all go to a park? What does this look like to you and your family? Is this doable in the next 2 weeks? If not, what would have to happen first?
I want to give her "words of affirmation"
I want to be creative in trying to speak her LL.
This is a 'to do' item, which is different than a DB goal. It's still a good thing to do. I assume you've detected that Words of Affirmation is one of her primary LL.
How will you go about doing this. And How will you know you've achieved that goal.....What will she be saying and what will she be doing? (Maybe this is connected to that smile above)
good job.
And smartcookie: that was very solution oriented advice
doh! I got your message.....but you see what I did with your previous goals. Your new goals look like continuing the same plus:
I want to increase the amount of QT I spend with her and the girls togetherBy how much...again....what do you want to be doing.
I want to be "myself" when i am around her...and not walk on eggshells worrying about saying something wrongThis is a to do list item when written. When you achieve it, how will you know....what will she say, what will she do?
I want to continue to work on myself, esp. at expressing my emotions (not necessairly to her...yet)Again, a 'to do' list. When you have expressed your emotions, how will you know you've done a good job?
I want to work on having patienceActually, patience works you.
How will you know when you have it?
Neil- the list you made of your progress is just like putting pebbles in a jar like Bill said- they are really starting to add up- and i agree with everyone else...she wants them to have a more normal expectation when they are with the both of you-- i think that will work in your favor
and she will want to do more family stuff...
also- SG's input is amazing above- you are making srides in the right direction...
good work GRASSHOPPA...
"How will you know when you have it?"
Good Question, SG,
I fear/doubt I will never have it. I shiver/shake at the very thought of it. I'm too strong-willed.
s
SG-
so i need to have something definable written down...such as
My wife will start opening up more aobut things to me when i don't walk around on eggshells around her.
is that what you mean?
Pisces....whilst i know it....i have this self-doubt thing going on....LOL.....it's also tough to do something for myself when i have the kiddies...mind you, i don't mind...but i've come to realize the importance of that.....getting the chance to do that soon tho.............
suzanne.....if i can have patience, so can you. trust me. LOL
im sure having the kiddies is a lot of play/work and fun....i bet they make you smile all the time...for the most part -LOL!
self doubt is a scary creature- it is something to work on forever..i dont think it will ever go away..it is with us and pushes us to be better people...
I want to continue to make my W smile when she's around me What makes her smile Neil? Why did she smile when you were together? Are there other things that would make her smile?
I think what you're really saying is that you'd like your wife to see you and smile because she's happy that you're there.
So the question is, what do you need to do in your interactions with her that would make her HAPPY to see you? And maybe that involves also considering what kind of behaviors from you make her unhappy to see her.
I want to continue to increase her confidence and comfortableness in talking to me Talking to you about what Neil? Just things in general, or things specific to the relationship between the two of you?
The first one will be easier than the second. What are you learning about communication and being an active listener? Showing her that you are interested in what she has to say, and are capable of really listening actively are the things that will make her WANT to talk to you about things.
Sharing her feelings about your relationship will only come when you've succesfully accomplished the first kind of communication. And remember, you're NOT pressing for relationship talk at this time anyway - in fact I would submit that you would do well to AVOID relationship talk for a while yet.
I want to increase the amount of QT I spend with her and the girls together More days like the one at the pool will make this happen. Show her, as you did that day, that you can enjoy the moment as a family and not turn the day into "Neil and Wife time to get things fixed" and I believe she will be open to spending time as a family.
Very important here to not get caught in the trap of making suggestions or extending invitations with expectations on her response. Remember that she will cycle emotionally and will not always respond favorably.
You offer ideas (hopefully not too much - perhaps a limit on yourself here would help, maybe once a week or every two weeks?) or extend an invitation because you want her to be involved, but you understand completely if she refuses. And no, you don't have to say I understand completely. Just a simple, "That's ok, maybe next time" in a friendly voice will do.
I want to be "myself" when i am around her...and not walk on eggshells worrying about saying something wrong How detached are you Neil? Have you let go of the rope, so to speak? Being yourself should be a natural thing. You know that your wife is struggling with issues, and you know that YOU are not the only or real cause.
Do you have compassion for her struggles? Are you loving her unconditionally, that is without expectation of reciprocation?
All of these things allow you to walk through your time with her with confidence and assurance. You KNOW you will be alright. You KNOW that a slip of a word, or a funny look is NOT the crucial element in the future of your relationship. Your mind is set that you are going to be you, because YOU is just what she will eventually realize she wants.
It's all attitude. And if you have to ACT AS IF for awhile until it becomes real, so be it.
I want to continue to find innovative ways to speak her LL
I want to continue to give her words of affirmation.
I want to continue to work on myself at expressing my emotions.
I want to work on having patience As SG pointed out, these are all personal goals. Journaling and getting your thoughts on paper may help you see ways that you need to improve and ways that you are improving.
If you are seeing a counselor, these are things you can share with him/her as goals and seek help in attaining them.
Attach some specifics to these. What are some words of affirmation you can use with her and when? That kind of thing.
This is a bit of a long term goal......... but I want to spend QT with JUST HER by the end of August. Ah, the Holy Grail.
I'm glad you are realistic enough to realize that this is a long term goal.
And chances are that as you accomplish the goals above, you will begin to realize that your chances are also improving on accomplishing this one.
Great job.
Now, let's get to work.
Blessings,
Bill
ok Bill, so what you are telling me is that they need to be focused more on my actions that help me to accomplish my goals.....and detach. How detached am i? LOL....funny...somedays...really well...others...not so much.
i believe i understand. If i am wrong, please correct me
Yes.
The goals are good. You have identified specific actions you would like to see in your wife.
Now it's time to do some thinking about how to make that happen.
Use what you already know about her and what you've learned as your sitch has developed.
Bill
How detached am i? LOL....funny...somedays...really well...others...not so much.
I feel the same way. I think I am doing good; I can finally feel comfortable when I am quiet or with my friends and I can sleep at night. But, man, when I am around my wife, the eggshells come right back. I guess this means that there is more detaching to be done.
in my experience, it comes iwth time....its only recently that i've been able to not worry too much about what she thinks of me. I still do on occasion. Of course, things are going in a positive directions. Ask me if things start going downhill....LOL....
it's a complicated process............detachment............just be YOU. with some added improvements...but overall, be you. it'll come....
yep- just be YOU...thats the whole point. thats how it has to be or things will not change
another thing to add to my list of positive interactions.....
she asked about my soccer game yesterday....sorta thru me for a loop
*sigh*
why can't things move faster than this?
i know i know...it's good that things are going slowly. the thing is, is that i know i won't fall back into my old habits because i'll be so happy to get a second chance, that i won't let myself.
gotta keep up the new behaviors....they are working.
still getting impatient tho. LOL.....i think i should change the name of my thread to "impatience on the lake erie shore"
Neil,
Sounds like you are on a roll!!! Keep up the good work. I agree with Bill's take on the "normal" time with the kids together......honestly I think that is a huge plus.
Your baby steps of your sitch are getting bigger. I think it is great that you were able to reflect back on yuour progress and "see" it.
The anger thing is normal, in my sitch I think I was angry....very angry....at my W for not truly trying to make it work (my opinion at the time) and myself for contributing to the madness of the situation and haelping it develop.
I am happy things are steadily improving
it's weird. but this is sometihng my IC said i probably was going to experience...
i'm getting angrier as the baby steps increase.
One of the things he's said is that i have trouble "feeling" my emotions...it wasn't until recently that i've really understood what he meant. I've felt the sadness....feel it alot. i'm beginning to feel the anger....and resentment...and all those things that drove me during this period..that i didn't acknowledge.
it's hard to explain, but it's there.
don't worry. I'm not going to unleash on my W when she picks up the girls today. I'm acting as if.....everything is good and peachy keen.
I see him on Wednesday. Man, do i have alot of unleash. good grief.
soccer ball time.
and you're right..they are steadily improving. which, makes me feel hopeful.
Hi Neil
I've been out of the DB boards loop the past 4 or 5 days. I have errands to run this morning & then am meeting a friend for lunch.
I'll try & catch up with you later.. but just reviewing the posts from above. I have a couple questions for you.
1- I'm assuming that impatience is a character trait that you have... how has that impacted the M prior to your W. walking away? How has it impacted your children? How has it been perceived through her/their eyes?
2- Can you find the emotion under the anger? hurt, betrayal, loss? I can hear my H better if he can tell me those emotions rather than the anger. You might understand it better yourself.
Peace
Bridge
Bridge-
to answer your questions.....
1. good assumption. I believe there are two parts to my impatience. In my R with my W, it came across as needing to be 'efficient' about things...shopping being a HUGE one. something else is usually when i thought of something, i had a need to do it NOW. LOL...usually something around the house.....
the other part of my impatience about this stems from the Mirror Theory that my IC and I developed. The link below is to my letter to my W (which i never sent) which explains it in better detail in case you've forgotten a bit.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1517444&page=0&fpart=82. Yes. All of them. I don't express them to her because i'm afraid of it turning into an R talk...know what i mean? Plus, it's all about her stuff........so i don't want to interfere...i'm just not sure how to do that stuff...
thanks.
Neil,
I found I had quite a bit of impatience in my sitch despite being a very patient person.
It was kind of like....."ok....I get it, I know what wrong, I understand now....can I please have my life back"
That was in the beginning. As things started to improve it was kind of like "Ok...now I really get it, and you seem to get it now, so lets put this foolishness behind us and have a better life now"
This is normal....you see improvements, you understand the DB principals, you just want to hurry up and finish the project in order to enjoy it. It is kind of like building a model airplane....you have to let the glue and paint dry occassionally to ensure the end product is everythign you hoped it would be.
LOL..OMG. so true.
good analogy. I haven't done a model in a while. perhaps i will go get one today....
thank you. makes me feel a thousand times better.
you took those words right from my mind..."let's put this foolishness behind us and have a better life now"
This is normal....you see improvements, you understand the DB principals, you just want to hurry up and finish the project in order to enjoy it. It is kind of like building a model airplane....you have to let the glue and paint dry occassionally to ensure the end product is everythign you hoped it would be.
OMG TD--I LOVE this analogy!!
Neil, I lurk on your threads and follow always, but do not post too often. I did not remember reading your letter so went back to re-read it. It is good stuff and allowed you to really come to grips with who you are and how you got to this point. I am also thinking it opened your eyes up to the way forward. Good job!
I understand the frustrations and you have some great advisors chiming in on your thread--people who are way more equipped to help than I am. I am praying for you and continue to see the growth and change that is occuring. Keep on keeping on. You will reach the brass ring.
SMW
you took those words right from my mind..."let's put this foolishness behind us and have a better life now"
I remember there was a time early in my sep when I could see my W having a very hard time with it.....I almost said this....I am very glad I didn't....probably would have backfired big time (would have been pressuring and controlling......she needed to feel the pain and she knew that she needed to feel it too).
Remember when building model airplanes.....don't sniff the glue!
Hope you have a great day today!
i have something i wanted to share with you all....
it's a quote from Springsteen.
it applies to ALL of us...no matter what our sitch...
from "Girls in Their Summer Clothes"
"She went away, she cut me like a knife
Hello Beautiful thing, maybe you could save my life
In just a glance, down here on magic street
Love's a fool's dance...
I ain't got much sense, but I still got my feet..."
We all have our feet.
Let's dance.
and oh yeah...
that beautiful thing and the one that cut you like a knife? the same person....in case you didn't read it like that...
so W just came and picked up the kids.....
my d3.5 said..."I wanna stay with daddy" and looked like she was going to cry....
breaks my heart.
after they left, i cried.
i hate doing the kid exchange....
wtf...
I don't have kids and I can't imagine what it is like with something extra like kids thrown in. Just a little more hurt I suppose.
so W just came and picked up the kids.....
my d3.5 said..."I wanna stay with daddy" and looked like she was going to cry....
breaks my heart.
after they left, i cried.
i hate doing the kid exchange....
wtf...
I agree Neil....it bites. Look at the positive, your kids had a great time with you...your W definitely notices this. As sad as it is I am sure it breaks your W' heart to hear this as much as it breaks yours.
it did. i texted and asked how d3.5 is doing.
ugh. i'm so pissed again at her. like WTF. like i want to scream at her...it doens't have to be like this...
then she tells me she printed off some articles on ways to help the kids cope with this......
it's things like this that really drive me towards not believing she'll ever want to fix this.....fing a.
(((NEil))))
sorry bud....that must really be hard - but i was just going to say how much a step it was that she asked YOU about your soccer game- ican recall a time when this wasnt even a remote possibilty that she would ask about your stuff- baby steps...
and her saying anything about an article is just her way of trying to make sense of the CURRENT situation with you and your kids- i would not read into it for the future...she is just traying to patch up the current pain you are all feeling.
have you thought about counseling for your kids or are they already going? this can be quite hard on them ( i know you know this)...
the springsteen song is DEEP...
i like "Don't Stop Believen'"
Neil-
Always remember that she is convinced that she is doing the right thing. She KNOWS she is.
Problem is...she doesn't know that she is WRONG. You have all of us and a lot of knowledge on your side.
You are taking baby steps to make a better life and she is sitting and spinning. She is going to try to throw things at you to test your resolve in the changes you've made. Don't let that mud stain the beautiful new suit you've put on.
FYI...venting
i'm fing pissed off right now. i have to be. i can't ignore this feeling. it's all BS. all of it. i fing hate this sitch.
IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE THIS WAY, DAMMIT.
WHY THE F DOESN'T SHE GET THAT????!!!!!!!
its not right. none of it. WHY DOESN'T SHE REALIZE THAT'S SHE'S MESSING WITH 3 LIVES HERE? NOW I'M STUCK IN THIS FING APARTMENT...THAT I'M ALLERGIC TO BTW....I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY SHE DIDN'T WANT TO GO TO MC....ISN'T THAT THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IN LIFE? YOUR FAMILY? WTF.
not done. but i better stop....one the the WAW's is libel to hit me in the head.....
Neil--
Better that you are screaming and yelling here--not sending her text messages, emails, or calling her. I am not a WAW though, so I make no promises as to what SC or some of hte others may do!
I am the LBS, like you, and I have done my fair share of screaming into pillows. You are doing great, do not let this become a backslide.
Whiel I understand, from personal experience, how hard this is for you and the kids, at least your W is considering ways to mitigate the damage--if that is possible. She HAS to do this to make herself feel better about her choices. This is no reflection on you--it is all on her.
SMW
it's so damn frustrating....i'm doing everything in my power (i think) to try and save my marriage, and she keeps working against us....WTF.
i know. none of this is rational thought...but i need to get it out or else i'm going to explode......
thanks SMW....i know not to. i had to drop something off at her place too......she was on the phone. as much as it irritated me, that was a good thing...
I know...I know. Regardless of what anyone says you both are ALLOWED to feel whatever it is you are feelings. I don't think there are any 'shoulds' at this point; you SHOULD be thinking rationaly, you SHOULD be happy, you SHOULDN'T be angry, etc.
Furthermore I think you NEED to experience these emotions as they come up for you to truely understand your side of things and ultimately who you are.
How you interact with your wife is a different matter. I think there are some 'should's' there if your goal is to perserve the relationship.
Don't make an enemy of yourself; be a friend to yourself, allow yourself just to be. You have given alot of grace to your wife through all of this, give some to yourself.
Good to get it out.....it is tough...I know.
it's so damn frustrating....i'm doing everything in my power (i think) to try and save my marriage, and she keeps working against us....WTF.
It is very frustrating...know go back and read your last weeks worth of posts.....some very positive stuff there. SHE invited you over for pool "date", SHE asked you to stay for hot dogs...see where I am going with this. She isn't against this as much as you might think. Now SHE is the one setting the pace....that you have to accept...which can be very difficult.
She may be giving you the co-parenting pamphlet because someone gave it to her and SHE doesn't know how long she is going to feel this way. As far as I know she hasn't filed for D yet.....right...... Read the co-parenting pamphlets, you may find some interesting tidbits in them.
I guarantee she knows the impact it is having on your lives. Everytime she drops them off for the long weekend or whatever you agree to she will be painfully aware of it. I am sure your kids asked about Mommy when they were with you....don't you think they ask about you when they are with her....this is not easy for any of you.
Now take a step back and ask yourself these questions
- Are you a better person now, than you were 6 months ago?
- Are you a better parent now, than you were 6 months ago?
- Do have a better appreciation for your M......?
- Do you have a better understanding of yourself.....?
Now the tough one.....
- Do you really think she made a mistake?
Based on what I have read of your posts (I like you Neil so I read almost all of them....I hope that doesn't make me too much of a narcisist....lol), I imagine you answered yes to the first 4 and no to the last. Your W wants a break....she is far from done.
It is good to get it out like you have.....I just wanted to remind you of the progress you have made in you and your R. They are both excellent.
Making the oven hotter will bake the cookies quicker, but will they taste as good when you get them out.......patience my friend
Tdad....yup. like a book. you read me. again.
thanks dude.
still angry. but i get it.
where did you get those questions from?
We all hear you and feel in the same boat a lot of the times. I want to vent like that sometimes, but has been getting easier as time goes by. The crying sucks but dont you feel better afterward. Used to hurt for days, but now just a few minutes then find something else to do.
They can talk a good game, just like Im sure all of us can, like about how they so much want to be a family, but seems easier just to get out and escape instead of putting the lesser energy of recieving help to fix the problem. We spend so much more energy hurting and fighting it seems so dumb, but everyone doesnt think logical.
We need congress to step in and fumigate this country to get people in line and stop all these D's or something like that. Make D illegal or something.
where did you get those questions from?
Made them up from reading your sitch.
Hang in there buddy. You are doing great. I had some pretty intense anger (W never saw it) and some intense sadness (would litteraly spend hours doing the "silent scream" in my cubicle.
You are doing great! Stay on the track!
As far as I know she hasn't filed for D yet.....right......
she legally can't until the end of a year from our legal sep date. so technically, no.
deep down.....and she's said this to me...i wonder if she's just going to wait the year out and go from there...LOL....i know..believe none of what you hear and half of what you see...
...LOL....i know..believe none of what you hear and half of what you see...
You know, LBS are not the only one's think this. I'll lay odds, so does every WAS as well. That's why doing what you say is crucial to showing us we can trust you, consistently & regularly.
Neil: I hear your anger towards your wife with your WTF statements. The amount of energy that is going into this DB'ing effort, working the seperation agreement out, moving kids from one place to another, etc etc. seems like it would be better to put that energy into working on a marriage. That's what I hear you sayig with your statements?
Peace
Bridge
Well THAT part of the song is true. Love makes fools of the wisest.
Anger...yup. Its a tool, harness it. Use it to feed your dettachment. Do not use it against your wife.
Example:
"I wonder what she's doing right now?"
"F-it, f her. I'm going out and eating f-ing ribs."
Or you know use it to add 5 more minutes onto your workout. I used to imagine the OM on my last sets.
My friend managed to get me to the top of a mountian saying, "That's ok Jack, this is as far as OM made it too." I wanted to kill him, but I made it.
Anger is a tool like a hammer, build or destroy.
Its ok to figure out where it is coming from, but you need to figure out what you're going to do with it regardless.
Bridge...yes.
J3B- good analogy. i'll use it tommorrow when i go to the gym. can't tonite...gave blood.
according to my IC, this is good that i'm feeling my anger. i just can't unleash it on my W...that would be bad. LOL
and to be honest, i really haven't gotten angry since the start of my sitch...so i got some stuff built up...... Just not sure why its coming now....
thanks
its part of the waves- small waves, big waves in a sea of uncertainty..its ok...
also- she may never have to go to MC .... if you are doing all this it will/ has changed the R dramatically...so unless he says she wants to go- it may not have to happen...besides- it isnt always the best thing anyway...
its good you are letting your anger out in writing...i am going on a run now too- anxiety, anger, sadness...its all the same pent up feelings mushed together....
(((NEil)))
HHHMMMM
I havea theory, if you do not have a problem with religious references. The devil ALWAYS steps up his efforts when he sees signs of progress in the right direction. The mind meanies kick in, the negative actions become harder to fight, and the urge to confront and attack is harder to tamp down.
Let me give you an example. While there has not been major progress in my sitch, their have been a few positives lately. In addition, my personal life--GAL, detachment, and unconditional love have REALLY stepped up and over the plate. Well, out of the blue, with no outside input, I got hit with a major negative thought yesterday. I was driving to the store, listening to praise music, when the thought came into my mind that if my H proceeds with a divorce, my D16 would be left without medical insurance. She is his stepdaughter and in the instance of a divorce, the military would not allow her to remain on his insurance. I hit a major panic and started to get tight feelings in my chest. I knew to pull it in and not go down that cheeseless tunnel, as it would get me nowhere. Instead, I started praying for my H's salvation, his return to God, and restoration of my family. It is hard to not let the bad thoughts to take over--it is another challenge we have to face on top of the spew we are getting from our spouses.
We have resources to help us, God will always help us in our stand for restoration, if we ask him and rest in his strength when ours starts to fail.
SMW
Pisces...thanks.....it does help. Sometimes, tho....i need to unleash on someone....IC on wednesday....i will last that long..LOL
SMW------- i hadn't thought about that aspect. Thank you. He (the Good Guy) works in mysterious ways....plus i forgot that the other guy is still trying to work against us..... even tho i went to church yesterday!!!!!
Thanks......
still sorta angry.....and there's nothing wrong with that. there are many examples in the Bible of where God get's angry....LOL....and man, talk about unleashing.....
anyways...seriously...thanks
anger is very important. i agree with that.
men and women show their anger differently- and its ok to be a man and be angry.
grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
ok so not a good convo with W. we talked about the kids and how we're oging to help them cope with things...she wants us to get some books.....i'm all for it...i really am....it's just that i'm angry and i started to feel myself get angrier about my sitch.....and i got quiet. she asked what was wrong...i told her i was mad....and she asked at me? i was like yes and no. i said i don't want to talk about it....and got off the phone with her.
WTF. this blows. she really is going to wait the damn year and then file......
WAW's. WTF.
impatience.
not good.
Neil buddy,
I feel your pain. Yikes, I was so angry with my H both yesterday and today, and I didn't follow the rules. You did, buddy. Thank yourself for that. My H probably has a right to say I do one thing and say another.
I've been looking for the part that says
"Don't forget to dance, but I can't find it. Maybe I didn't go back far enough in your thread. I've been busy as a bee today and I'm exhausted now. Will check again on you tomorrow. Geeesh, your anger is right here with me, friend.
hugs on their way out over cyberworld right to your door.
s
she really is going to wait to see my changes are for good, or just a game I'm playing temporarily.
There, I fixed it for you
Seriously.....this is part of the test of your character and what you have been working towards all this time. Don't let one thing spoil it. Kick some soccer balls. Get a punching bag. Go running til you can't anymore, and do something mentally to get your mind in the right place. Anger is fine. Just remember that exploding in a R doesn't help put things back together. Just the opposite.
Neil...
I want to mention that something you can really learn from Bill, even if he doesn't define it that way...... is the REAL GIVING aspect.....if you look at how he helps you with your goals....he helps you try to meet your wife's need in each one. It's pretty cool. And I imagine it will work.
sg
so i didn't explode in anger...but i think i backslid some. Had to call W back about the books she was looking at....and we had a bit of an old relationship talk.....whats interesting is that she IS struggling iwth this too...but she's so focused on the kids and her job.....and again she says just because the kids are struggling with this it isn't a reason to stay together. If she thinks that just because she didn't speak up about things should prevent us from being together....i don't get it....WTF. I did validate things tho...did get a little defensive when she said "last summer you were content to read, listen to bruce, and let them play"...hard not to, but i corrected it by saying i didn't know what i felt last summer.
this is so frustrating. yes, i know better. dammit. but i'm still pissed
and i'm so confused right now. i'm sick and tired of feeling like this.....confused. WTF. I just want my W back.
ugh
Doesn't that suck how you can be so full of confidence one day (hour, minute) and be down in the dumps the next?
...the whole rollercoaster thing...
You get alot of advice from people and I certainly can't add anything to what they say.
But I thought I'd encourage you; its ok to feel this way. You are going through some major upheavel, your relationship is in turmoil and I'm sure you are learning things about yourself that are painful, freightening, and confusing.
Time is on our side. If we want to grow we must suffer this, but dammit, no one said you needed to be a spartan about it.
After I said I didn't have much advice, I'll tell you something that I am working on: be in the present, not the past, or the future. Be quite, be brave, and sit with what you are feeling. If you can learn to be comfortable with and understand where these negative feelings come from, they will not be an issue anymore. They will not go away but your perception of them will have changed.
but the good news is that tomorrow is a new day...
B
Neil,
Ok.....everyone knows Mondays bite
Mondays where you hand your kids off are even worse
..........
Today is Tuesday!
Live today for today
My W said all the time the kids were not a reason to stay together. I would imagine the reason your W is pressing with the co-parenting books now is that she isn't happy. She isn't happy with the way the kids are adjusting and figures the co-parenting will "fix" that. Part of the reason she isn't happy is because of the good time the four of you had as a family and realizes that it felt good. She may even be pulling back a little bit because of that.
I doubt even the best co-parenting will make her happy about the sitch. One good thing you found out yesterday is your W is having just as hard a time with this as you are......
Give her the loving space she needs....you have been doing a great job with that. Yesterday wasn't much of a backslide...though I don't know how much of an R talk you got into.
Today is a new day......make it a good one
PS: After the bomb my W wen out and got a tattoo (I saw you mentioned this in one of the other threads)
the books are kid oriented..."It's not your fault Koko Bear" and "Dinosaurs Divorce"......LOL....the 2nd one is the one that really hit where it hurt LOL...
i can tell she's pulling back a bit. she's not too keen on taking the kids to the county fair now....again, because she doesn't want them to expect something dramatic when the four of us are together.
we actually didn't talk about our R too much. She told me that i can't keep beating myself up about it.... iwanted to tell her why, but held back...alot of it i just expressed that i was frustrated.......but didn't go into any specifics....it's like i needed to tell her that.
My W said all the time the kids were not a reason to stay together. I would imagine the reason your W is pressing with the co-parenting books now is that she isn't happy. She isn't happy with the way the kids are adjusting and figures the co-parenting will "fix" that. Part of the reason she isn't happy is because of the good time the four of you had as a family and realizes that it felt good.
the adjusting thing...yeah..she's said that....i wanted to blurt out "well the best thing for them is for us to be together..." again, but didn't.
overall i felt like i held back alot....just sorta listened and validated.....actually brooded was more like it. i knew if i started in...i was going to go off...so i stopped.
tuesday.
at least i can go to the gym later.....
the adjusting thing...yeah..she's said that....i wanted to blurt out "well the best thing for them is for us to be together..." again, but didn't.
There isn't a LBS with kids that hasn't felt that way. You did great to hold your tongue. There will be a definitive contrast bewteen the best co-parenting and when the four of you get together for family time. During these times she wil ldoubt her decision and your DB skills will shine through.....patience
i can tell she's pulling back a bit. she's not too keen on taking the kids to the county fair now....again, because she doesn't want them to expect something dramatic when the four of us are together.
The pull back is normal....give her loving space she will come back. It is actaully good that she doesn't want to have a big event each time the four of you get together. That to me tells me she wants to know what "normal" family time will be like....that is excellent. As far as the fair goes...if you have the kids then take them. Just have fun. Don't send her pix messages while there or anything else to make her feel guilty for not going. If she contacts you then be nice and friendly.
I wouldn't read too much into the books, they are geared towards D, probably because there are no books that say "Mommy and Daddy are taking a break for a little bit"
overall, i'm glad i didn't go off......altho i wonder if part of her wanted me to....i never really expressed alot of emotion when we were together....esp. anger....not sure. Probably good because it would've been very self-centered...about how this has hurt me...hurt the kids....destroyed our family. Very irrational since i knwo we both messed things up.....
this is good, right?
You think its good to let out the thoughts because they are reasonable and rational but then you know that the ears listening keep getting more irrational. I find this the hardest thing to deal with. Accepting the changes in your w knowing all the pain they are causing.
I am almost at the point when I can keep quiet but not just yet.
You did real well
Neil,
Your thread goes so fast, I can barely keep up with you. I love reading but I know I have been missing some. What page is the "Don't forget to dance" part?
s
Neil,
You did great....words only get you in trouble....actions can bring you closer together
the funny thing is is that i don't want her to pull back....i feel we are on the verge of something......LOL....that familytime........i forgot what it was like....i think she did too.
still very frustrating. like oyu said yesterday Tdad.....ok, enough foolishness.
suzanne....it's on page four of this thread....a quote from springsteen...
OK, Neil,
Thanks for the info. And, keep doing the action thing. I have been listening to everyone on my thread and tho I don't do it all the time, you even said yourself that my H is noticing. So is your W. I'm positive she will come around. Trust me, I can feel in my bones.
s
Cool beans!
"Love's a fool's dance...
I ain't got much sense, but I still got my feet..."
We all have our feet.
Let's dance.
_______________
And then there's that other song by him.
"I don't want to fade away."
Remember that one?
s
the funny thing is is that i don't want her to pull back....i feel we are on the verge of something
Of course you don't...you enjoyed yourself as well and you miss it...hence the anger...etc. Love her let her pull back, she is not doing it to be ugly, if she wants to come back she wants to do it for the right reasons....and if she wants to come back she doesn't want to feel like she made a mistake and have to do this all over again.
It is kind of like she is "trying on" the family for a little bit, taking it off, taking a step back and see how she feels. If she misses it she will come back and try it on again....for a longer period of time. If you push her, she will be more hesitant about trying it on again. If you think about it, she is also protecting you a little bit in this way, she knows this isn't easy for you and doesn't want to unnesscessarily hurt you.
The funny thing as you get closer, you will find it more and more difficult to keep your patience......keep your cool.
One other thing from one of your other posts, she may never go to MC and this may be a good thing. I know in my sitch I had begged and pleaded for MC, now I think that would be a huge mistake....nothing significant would happen aside from bringing up old pain. We both know what got us there and we both know what we did wrong and what we need to do better......we have never had an "ah-ha" moment and I honestly don't expect to have one....we are showing things through actions.
Your heart is in the right place....just slow it down a little bit so your mind doesn't race too much
Tdad...i so want toooooooo believe you.....i really do....it's so difficult to sometimes.....i can't explain it.....
Please don't take offense...........it's just difficult, because those words aren'tcoming out of her mouth..... i'm an auditory learned sometimes too...LOL....
ugh.
hey all..
here's a link to the video for that song i quoted yesterday...."girls in their summer clothes"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7g7-lL6cQU
Neil,
That's where faith comes in. If it's hard, believe anyway. Even when it hurts.
It's my belief that you and your W did not just happen to get together by luck.
Keep going. Keep breathing. I'll meet you at the next rest area
Tdad...i so want toooooooo believe you.....i really do....it's so difficult to sometimes.....i can't explain it.....
Please don't take offense...........it's just difficult, because those words aren'tcoming out of her mouth..... i'm an auditory learned sometimes too...LOL....
You don't have to explain...I already know. I don't take offense from anything on this board....I took the worse the person I love the most had to give....anything on here is a piece of cake.....lol
Neil,
I think you are doing good. Your biggest problems are confidence (which you know and are improving on very well) and you are scared, scared that your best DB efforts and otherwise will not be good enough.
A mind game that helps out with this is pretend you don't have a R anymore. I believe most people call this dropping the rope. If you think about it, it is kind of a good thing because you don't want that relationship anyways. Pretend you have someone you are very interested in, that has just got out of a bad R. Think about how you got together to begin with. If you "drop the rope" then there is no longer anything to be scared of ....there is only hope of a new beginning.
Love her let her pull back, she is not doing it to be ugly, if she wants to come back she wants to do it for the right reasons....and if she wants to come back she doesn't want to feel like she made a mistake and have to do this all over again.
It is kind of like she is "trying on" the family for a little bit, taking it off, taking a step back and see how she feels. If she misses it she will come back and try it on again....for a longer period of time. If you push her, she will be more hesitant about trying it on again. If you think about it, she is also protecting you a little bit in this way, she knows this isn't easy for you and doesn't want to unnesscessarily hurt you.
This is good stuff, TD! Do you mind if I copy and alter the female words to male words for my sitch? I want to hang it in my bathroom to help me stay focused.
Neil take this to heart. It is going great and I am proud of you for your commitment to your family. I know how hard those really good days are--you just want to sit the WAS down and say, "What is so awful about this that you have to leave?" Unfortunately, we cannot ask this question. They have to ask themselves.
SMW
This is good stuff, TD! Do you mind if I copy and alter the female words to male words for my sitch? I want to hang it in my bathroom to help me stay focused.
Please do...
you just want to sit the WAS down and say, "What is so awful about this that you have to leave?" Unfortunately, we cannot ask this question. They have to ask themselves.
Now that is good......The only thing I would add would be "it is our job to show them they are making the wrong decision" the emphasis on actions
want to sit the WAS down and say, "What is so awful about this that you have to leave?" Unfortunately, we cannot ask this question. They have to ask themselves.
SMW
so true. i think that's why my W is pulling back...she might've enjoyed it more than she thought......
ugh.
how frustrating...LOL....
Yes, we definitely have to SHOW them, not try to TELL them. Alright, I have to go feed the kids that do not go to camp and get out to weed the garden beds before it rains. Will check in later.
Thanks for the copyright permission, TD.
Hang in there Neil.
SMW
check out this other song.....again, very ap pro po to all of our sitchs....
"tougher than the rest"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nn6-KDZpFt8&feature=related
Twin Dad,
Your words of wisdom ring in my ears loud and clear. I'm glad you posted to Neil where I could read what you wrote.
Love her let her pull back, she is not doing it to be ugly, if she wants to come back she wants to do it for the right reasons....and if she wants to come back she doesn't want to feel like she made a mistake and have to do this all over again.
yes this would be an accurate description of my feelings & intentions at times like that.
It is kind of like she is "trying on" the family for a little bit, taking it off, taking a step back and see how she feels. If she misses it she will come back and try it on again....for a longer period of time. If you push her, she will be more hesitant about trying it on again. If you think about it, she is also protecting you a little bit in this way, she knows this isn't easy for you and doesn't want to unnesscessarily hurt you.
I would also agree with this point as well from my WAW perspective. I would also add it is 'trying on' the new normal for all parts of the interactions, not just family.
And yes, us co-dependents worry about unnescessarily hurting you, while at the same time finding boundaries that are healthy for us. It is part of, at least for me, the dance of learning new steps in this new normal.
Thanks for putting that into words TwinDad.
Peace
Bridge
Bridge...that's what i needed to hear. thank you.
i love your quote. It is so fitting for me.....
success makes us greedy....OMG...thats me...impatient to a T!!! LOL...
thanks...
Hey there Twindad,
That was great advice, even for me...:) I feel a little bit like I dropped the rope when I went dark last week. Then all of a sudden he wanted to call me all the time, and then he wanted to be home. Now he says he is "going to be home a lot..." I took it to mean he is going to fight for the house. But maybe, just maybe....no, I won't say it; won't even think it.
thanks
s
i still fear sometimes that there is OM. i really do. i know it shouldn't make a difference, but.......her vision of "happiness" could be clouded by this a**hole that she'll never know what true happiness is.
now these feeligns came about because i saw that she had washed a vase at her house....and i thought to myself.....hmmmm...who gave her flowers?
wtf.
drop the rope? i can in all aspects BUT this one...perhaps the most important one....cripes.
Neil,
Look, it's really easy to find yourself caught in the trap of predicting the future and then responding to that potential future. And it's usually based on one or two simple events that you are applying your own interpretation to.
What do you expect your wife to do right now?
No, no.....wait a minute. I said what do you EXPECT your wife to do right now, NOT what do you WANT her to do?
Swap shoes with her for a minute. This is a woman who left the home, who believes that your marriage is potentially a failed one. In HER shoes, would you not begin taking steps to make sure that your children would handle that reality as well as possible?
I'm only saying that you continue to be hammered by her actions, when her actions are entirely consistent with the position that SHE believes herself to be in right now.
This is the trap the LBS falls in to way too often. Upside Downer is in a similar state right now.
WE, I repeat WE, see the marriage falling apart and can't imagine focusing on ANYTHING but finding a way to fix it.
THEY have already decided that the marriage is most likely not fixable.
You are forgetting your role in this thing right now.
Become a better man. Know what your goals are. Stop attaching your hopes and dreams to her current actions/words. Instead attach them to the confidence you have that this better man you are becoming will help her to eventually change her mind and move back in your direction.
Your ACTIONS are what is important. Not hers. You can't control hers, only yours.
Your actions are based upon your confidence and belief that you can SHOW her that YOU are her best choice, that there is no one else who could ever be a better husband.
As long as you allow these little tidbits of knowledge about her to throw you off your chosen path, you're going to join her in cycling and get further from that ultimate goal.
Accept that she is currently not interested in working on the marriage. It hurts, it's not understandable, but accept it.
Follow your plan. Accomplish your goals.
Become the friend that she cannot be without. As I recall, THAT is the person that I decided I HAD to marry.
Blessings,
Bill
F me Bworl,
I think that was one of the best posts I have ever seen on the boards.
Neil pay attention, really. Print that up and keep it with you to read when you are feeling like this.
you know what it is.....
this Mirror Thing i got going on with her. almost like I NEED her to verbally acknowledge she likes the changes....maybe that makes me shallow........but, and i know this, i haven't dropped the rope. It's hard for me to. So hard. So fing hard.
and i don't know why.
luckily, i can come on here...talk about these thigns...and Act As if...when i'm around her....
i just want her.
ugh.
She showed you she liked the changes that day at the pool.
Just like she showed you how concerned she is for the kids by getting the books.
Her ACTIONS are what speaks here. Don't look for the words.
Yeah. I know.
This is the place to get it out, so you did well.
It would be a good time to get out and do something that put you in a real positive state of mind. Self care is required in these situations.
Work the plan.
Blessings,
Bill
This is the place to get it out, so you did well.
thanks.....
It would be a good time to get out and do something that put you in a real positive state of mind. Self care is required in these situations.
yep.
got some plans already.
gym
work on friends house.
thank you.
what's really nice is that i now can recognize whether something is going to help me accomplish my goal or not accomplish my goal. I know i slipped a little yesterday, but it's something that i needed to do....can't explain it.
then i can come here and vent and talk and cry and do all the things i want to do around/to her....without her being her.
and when i'm near her.....i'm the cool confident guy that is attractice to her.....
Act As If....
I NEED her to verbally acknowledge she likes the changes
...
Neil,
Man up, these changes are for you not her, you are a better person for them anyway. You don't need her validation for good changes, in fact I think your more likely to slip back into the old you if you require her validation...so go into her purse and get your nuts back.
I understand what you are saying...
Hear what I am saying as well...
She fell in love with a man, not a boy.
[
Man up, these changes are for you not her, you are a better person for them anyway. You don't need her validation for good changes, in fact I think your more likely to slip back into the old you if you require her validation...so go into her purse and get your nuts back.
I do.
still rooting around for them....LOL...
bet she thinks that way too.....LOL.
Originally Posted By: Jack_Three_Beans
[
Man up, these changes are for you not her, you are a better person for them anyway. You don't need her validation for good changes, in fact I think your more likely to slip back into the old you if you require her validation...so go into her purse and get your nuts back.
I do.
still rooting around for them....LOL...
bet she thinks that way too.....LOL.
If she is anything like my W was then she does.....sorry buddy....my W even used pretty much the same words.
They are back now....which I find out sometimes painfully when my 3 yr olds climb all over me
Neil- wow- lots of changes and i think all good. its normal to backslide a bit- part of the process. you stopped when you knew there was no cheese.
remember to still treat her like a casual friend right now- get your head out of the part that is desparate for her to come home-just stay on your casual friend plan that got you to major progress.
look at how far you have come- please look at the baby steps.
i agree with TD, Bill and JTB....
but since im a girl (((Neil)))
Guys, I'm curious...... In what part of the purse does a lady carry those things? I love top end designer handbags, they all have a cell phone pocket but nothing for nuts…..
Neil, should I hit you back with the 2x4? You wacked me on Monday. Now it's my turn.
You have been doing wonderfully well. I understand your reaction to seeing the Divorce books. I cringe inside everytime my H brings up the word.
Act as if the D word doesn't exist. It sounds like she is just trying to help the kids understand what mommy and daddy are experiencing right now. There are books for everything.
Keep your head up and don't loose sight of your dignity. You are doing good things.
Guys, I'm curious...... In what part of the purse does a lady carry those things? I love top end designer handbags, they all have a cell phone pocket but nothing for nuts…..
My W has a handful of Coach bags, I honestly think she was extra sneaky and split them up and put them in separate bags so it would be harder to get them back. Normally they are kept deep in the purse amongst all the make-up, coins, pens, etc....lol
Oh. Of course. I'm much neater though. I'd have them in a matching, zippered, leather, nut bag.
I never thought about splitting them up. They'd be tough for you to find if she changed her purse every time she changed her outfit.
Seriously though, I know how you feel Neil. During my life, I have been on both sides of the fence. I left my 1st H, when I found out he was cheating on me. He was devastated.
I can tell you though, cause aside, the more he called and crawled the stronger it made me feel. The more determined I was to end the M.
When he began to GAL, I really began to take notice.
the thing is, hope, i haven't really crawled or called her. I'vew been doing my thing....and trying to validate whenever i talk to her.
just frustrating that's all.
thank you all for your support too.....
i jsut feel lost somedays...
i really wish i could explain why i feel hopeless sometimes....and so frustrated.
you guys probably think i'm a big loser because i have a good sitch and many things going for me...yet i say so many negative things
the thing is, hope, i haven't really crawled or called her. I'vew been doing my thing....
Yea, but this is all about perception. I doesn't matter WHAT you do, for the most part; you wife will interpret it however she wants to. Even when you are literally not doing anything, she will project whatever image she wants to on to you.
Thats why GAL is for you, not her. Who know's how long it will take for their perception of things to change, that is their work and business. We have enough trouble managing ourselves let alone their mental state.
Keep on going...she will have to work her stuff out and you cannot help with that.
In the meantime, its ok to feel crappy sometimes, its a crappy situation. But don't forget to be happy too, theres life to be lived!
you know...i feel like i'm sucking at this DBing stuff...LOL....ugh
FG, could use your assistance here....i'm stuck.....i think...
tdad....did you have this much self doubt?
Neil,
You're normal. Perfectly normal.
Your registration date is June, not sure how long before that you were dealing with this stuff, but I'm assuming it hasn't been all that long.
It sucks. In the quiet moments it's hard as hell to turn off the little voices that send us those not so pretty messages.
Read a book. Play a game. Watch a movie. Do something to take your mind off of the SITCH. Let it go. Things have a way of changing with time and rest. Chances are that tomorrow you'll wake up and once again feel ready to tackle things with full energy.
Again, you're fine.
Quit beating yourself up.
Nothing is being decided today, tomorrow, or even this week.
Blessings and rest,
Bill
Bill...
i got the DR book around memorial day...and started to do the LRT that weekend. If i look back, things have improved drastically since then.
i know i need to stop reacting to her when she drops those little lines about the D word. to be completely honest, it's been awhile since i have and awhile since she said it. I admittedly haven't been in a good place emotionally for a couple of days.......not completely sure as to why.......but i see my IC today....hope to get some clarity there
the funny thing is....is that i know i'm doing ok. it's just that sometimes, when i get impatient...i don't believe it. LOL.
thanks for your support....it means alot. all of you.
Neil,
I agree with you that is hard not to get frustrated and down on yourself sometimes.
Bill and others post the most rational and sensible stuff I have heard in a long long time.
Its hard to move away from doing what you believe is right and I am making a lot of mistakes too. Trying to GAL when you have had a confidence knock as bad as this is hard.
My w is still at home but wants to go. Trying to find the space in the house to get away when she is alien and angry isn't always easy. Trying to be smiley and happy in the face of adversity is really hard.
You dont suck. Stick at it.
Thanks Kenny-
I don't envy your position. NOt at all. I don't know if i could keep up the happy face the entire time.
i guess it's something you need to force yourself to do, even when you don't want to...GALing...
i went to my friends house to help them paint it (i got to tinker)...went oout to dinner (outback steakhouse....good food), went to my best friends house, and bitched for an hour. Felt good to get some stuff out. YOu need an outlet.
Morning Neil,
Keeping buisy (GALing) is is essential. Even if a first you are just going thru the motions, pretty soon you begin to realize that it is helping.
I also noticed your registration date yesterday, and thought to myself that you just have to hang in for a bit longer...on this board, and with everybody's wonderful support you will probably begin to feel a bit more detached.
Detachment is a very good thing.
Kenny,
I know what you're going thru. My H is at home, but wants ME to leave.
It's very hard to find someplace to go when he turns Alien. Especially because he keeps calling me back to him to talk D.
He says that every time I refuse to sit down "like an adult" and talk D to him, another piece of our marriage dies. WTF? How can he not see the craziness of that comment?
I usually counter by saying I'll be glad to discuss ANYTHING with him, EXCEPT D. Then I make my escape.
i know it is helping...even with the small things that i do. My W has asked about soccer, so that's good....she knows i enjoy it.
it's just a weird feeling....detaching. It's a good thing, a scary thing, and a bad feeling all rolled into one...LOL
Neil - You and I both. I did my first real detachment action yesterday and today am feeling like total crap because my resentment towards the sitch specifically with the wedding.
I feel GREAT for doing the right thing, but still have "crap" in my head because I am angry and want to point out how F'ed up this is to her. To achieve the detachment, we are going to need to practice!!!
Neil,
If I had to venture a guess, the reason you have been a little off the last couple days is......you had a great pool "date", you got excited, hoped it would continue through the weekend when you had the kids. Instead your W had a good time at the pool date and decided to pull back a little bit. Bascially you had expectations.....just my guess.
In my sitch I had a very hard time leading up to the sep....it was a rollercoaster for months, were we going to stay together, were we going to sep...back and forth. Then a few weeks before we sold our house, I knew we were going to sep. At this point I read DR and got a little bit of confidence. Our plan, was after selling the house I would take the kids on a vacation for a week since we were going to be homeless. Then she would have them for a couple weeks after that. During the week of vacation, my W texted and called more and more throughout the week. This increase in activity gave me my root confidence and I just knew it was going to be a matter of time. I knew there was alot of DB work to do, but I was confident. There were still plenty of sucky moments but I was confident.
Look at how things have improved immensely since you started...draw some confidence from that.
TwinDad,
Bingo.
Good Times lead to expectations, can't be helped until you learn to enjoy the moments and expecations lead to dissappointments around here.
Calling it a roller coaster sounds sooo trite...cute...witty, and it is true. It is a roller coaster of emotions.
It is not a ride that our spouse makes difficult, but ourselves.
WE decide how long, how dangerous and how scary it is.
A little secret, that you aren't going to believe, not yet.
You have the power. Not her, you are in control. When you realize that, it will be true.
Although I can't speak for Neil, I would agree with expectations being a root cause.
Mine have killed me thus far. Perhaps the lovely people watching this thread can offer specific suggestions how to manage down those expectations. It seems as through Neil is doing a lot. As much as he can to GAL with kids and all.
Expectations are hard NOT to have.
Live for the moment in regard to your spouse.
"Live for the moment in regard to your spouse"
that is some good wisdom JTB...
Neil -i totally feel you. i thik it has to do with the success you have had and that you get happy and excited and want it all back now. then you crash from that high and get mad and sad and angry. its unfortunate but we are human.
i think living in the moment. period. is the only way to live through this and life.
too many times we get stuck in the future or past.
you are doing great. i hope today is better for you.
A little secret, that you aren't going to believe, not yet.
You have the power. Not her, you are in control. When you realize that, it will be true.
i will believe it when i see it. LOL. I know you're right, but...
Tdad...yep. I didn't have any going in, but i thought we could build on what we did. Gave me some expectations. And i know that we can build on it............
i hate roller coasters. I just had a huge cry...and its only because i thought about losing her.
The concept of true giving....i'm starting to understand...alot more...I'm doing it now...as difficult as it is...i think i am. My W doesn't want to be married right now. I do. I'm not (not doing a good job sometimes) forcing the issue with her. I've left her alone...no random texts, no random calls, just to say hi, no cards...just making my interactions with her the best thati can possibly do at the time. each day, its a different best
waht really threw me for a loop was the books. i had it in my mind that things were going to be fine, esp after the pool time.....just need to have patience...and when she brought all that up....it hit me like a ton of bricks again..and i'm like...WTF.
i need to start ingraining the principles better. esp the ones about not letting your S effect you.
grrr.
Man up time.
[quote=Bworl]
I think what you're really saying is that you'd like your wife to see you and smile because she's happy that you're there.
So the question is, what do you need to do in your interactions with her that would make her HAPPY to see you? And maybe that involves also considering what kind of behaviors from you make her unhappy to see her.
I've been thinking about this...and i want to make sure i'm on the correct path here, so my knowledgeable advisors....
Goal #1: I would like my wife to smile when she sees me because she is happy to see me.
To accomplish this I need to:
Smile at her (PMA)
Compliment her
Be in control of my emotions....ie no anger, sadness
Be happy to see the kids
Offer words of affirmation....not all the time..but when the mood strikes...
does that seem like a more action oriented goal?
Good Times lead to expectations, can't be helped until you learn to enjoy the moments and expecations lead to dissappointments around here.
I believe that most people live life with expectations, until something happens that knocks you on your a@@.
Then, after you start breathing again, you begin to appreciate life in small measurements, and you can really count yourself as lucky.
Some things to keep in mind about expectations when your spouse has decided to leave...
1. One good turn does NOT guarantee another.
Something that led to a great experience before, may lead to a horrible experience the next time. What they say yes to now, they may say no to later. There are no guarantees. By the same token, what they absolutely refused to even consider one day may well be something they will jump at later.
MORAL: You cannot base expectations on what worked or didn't work before.
2. Your goals are different right now.
If your spouse left, he/she is focused on creating their new life and deciding just how it's going to work. If children are involved and they are still somewhat responsible, they are trying to figure out how to minimize impact on the kids. Meanwhile we, as left behind spouses, are typcially focused on one thing - saving the marriage.
Expecting that your spouse shares your urgency when it comes to the marital relationship is a sure fire way to live in total frustration. And if things have been hostile or uncomfortable in some way, if they're truly thinking of ending the marriage, you have very little shot of seeing them want to do/say anything that you would consider helpful to repairing the damage.
MORAL: You cannot expect someone to want to work on something they've already decided cannot be fixed.
3. Chances are your spouse has done some changing.
If your spouse is anything like my ex was, he/she has possibly become a person that you hardly recognize sometimes. Mine went from being a loving mother and a woman with strong Christian morals, to engaging in illicit affairs and clubbing with single friends.
When you try to reason with this new person in the manner that was always reasonable for the two of you in the past, you are stunned to find out that they could care less about the really strong observation/point you just made.
MORAL: Expecting someone to react as they would have historically doesn't work so well when they've changed.
Most of the cycling that we as left behind spouses go through comes about because we do not recieve the response we expected from our spouse, OR because they don't seem to share our obsession with fixing the marriage.
If there were a magic pill for eliminating expectations in dealing with our wayward spouses, we'd all be so much better off.
In many ways we have to begin interacting with these spouses much as we did when we were first getting to know them.
Back in the dating days, if our spouse had turned down a night out, we might have been sad, but we would NOT have brooded about it, and you can be sure that we would have been right back up on that horse pretty quickly. We KNEW then that we were going to win their heart. We KNEW then that we were meant to be together, and that WE were the best spouse for each other.
Our confidence takes a big hit when this stuff happens. But we do ourselves a disservice if we don't take steps to renew our positive outlook, make some good changes, and renew our efforts to SHOW our spouse the person they once fell in love with.
Just as we treated them as loved friends when first getting to know them, we need that same approach again.
Blessings,
Bill
Bill, excellent post! I'm really learning a lot from the LBS here, thinking about things I never considered before I walked away.
Neil, just wanted to say I hope you are having a better day. Lately I've been GALing to take my mind off the sitch when it gets too intense. Seems to be working. Peace.
Another great post by Bill!!
A little secret, that you aren't going to believe, not yet.
You have the power. Not her, you are in control. When you realize that, it will be true.
Jack,
Bingo back....lol
Shortly after sep and reading DR, I had three main emotions that were very strong....sadness.....anger (no big surprises here)...and empowerment.....I felt for the first time in several months I felt like I had the ability to affect a possitive change on my R on my own! It really helped build my confidence
How are you feeling today? Still down?
ok. confused. angry. sad. happy. hungry. it's all there. just trying to make sense of it.
ugh
thanks bill. i need to process what you said, but it's good stuff. as always. thanks bunches.
beloved advisors....anything about my goal? do you think that's on par with what i need to be doing?
Neil,
You've been getting some fantastic advice these past few days. I bet if you go back and read through some of these posts again, you'll get a whole different perspective on your sitch. You may even find some more "goal" answers.
(((((N)))))
s
i know suzanne. i'm just not at a good place right now emotionally. i feel so lost....could because i'm tired and need a solid nites sleep.
i'm also beginning to come to grips with how much i really did hurt my W. i'm having a hard time forgiving myself.......i thought i was putting this woman up on a pedestal..when in reality, i wasn't....i know i did at some point....in my own way...i don't think she ever recognized it.....again, the LL thing. we didn't communicate it that well........that's the most frustrating part of this...the communication was all that was wrong.....it's so easy to make better.........
ugh.
Hey Neil,
I know it may not be much but I heard this song on the radio and its kinda eerie how much it applies to us. I posted the link on my thread, I don't know if you've looked at it.
Forget about the video and just listen or maybe look up the lyrics, its a fist pumper.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18pelixcmvQ
Smile at her (PMA)- YES!
Compliment her- HOW?
Be in control of my emotions....ie no anger, sadness- HOW?
Be happy to see the kids- HOW?
Offer words of affirmation....not all the time..but when the mood strikes...HOW?
i would write the specific actions here:
how will you do all the above? smile at her is action oriented- the others are not as specific...
does that make sense?
ps. that song makes me CRY
cant listen...
Pisces...yep. it does. just gotta think about it. and i ain't in any place to think about it...LOL.....oiy vay.
thanks....
you've given me hope, my dear. really. thanks.
OY VEY is right- i feel ya
tomorrow is a new day!
the communication was all that was wrong.....it's so easy to make better..........
I'm betting there were some actions in there that helped make it wrong.
And if you think it's easy to change your communication style think again.
Just like almost everything else, it is alearned behaviour and it takes unlearning & relearning. You haver your own 'natural' communication style as well as the patterns you have set with your W. that are destructive.. both need to change. It is work. a lot of conscious energy draining work.
How are things today?
Bridge
Bridge-
better. you're right, there were some actions that helped to lead to this (or lack thereof)..... right now, i'm just not sure of them. LOL. so i focus on improving my communication skills with whomever i'm with.
it is draining....so right....and for me, when i see an iota of progress, it's not enough. Your quote is all me. LOL
thanks for checking in.
new thread too...
Oh...now, I like 3 Doors Down...
But come on people, what are you masochistic?
Didn't you learn in high school to stay away from songs like this when your relationship takes a bad turn?
I mean whats next, drinking alone?
Neil you want some good songs, "I'm not going to break songs?" That don't involves a broken relationship?
Not Falling - Mudvayne
Black Parade - My Chemical Romance
Move Along - All American Rejects
Not a single broekn heart mentioned, just the desire not to fail despite everything that the world throws at you.
I always sing Amazing Grace to myself during tough times....it is very uplifting to me
But come on people, what are you masochistic?
Didn't you learn in high school to stay away from songs like this when your relationship takes a bad turn?
I suppose you can interpret the song how ever you want. Yes, He is talking about the ending of a relationship but he is also talking about facing adversity and having faith things can be better and perservering even though one is afraid. For me, the song is more about continuing to fight through tough times whatever they may be.
LOL....i'll stick with springsteen. he works for me......
J3B- went to gym yesterday. used your advice....LOL....little sore today...but it's a good feeling.
thanks
Who doesn't love the boss?!
Who doesn't love the boss?!
UUUHHHMMMM
ME!! And I was born in NJ and graduated from high school there! However, I do like our other rock icon--Jon Bon Jovi!!!
SMW
Pisces - do you have an active thread? I see you're a fellow "NorCal" poster and wanted to post to you.
(and what the heck are they putting in the water around here to cause all these WAH's????)
Freehold Township class of 89.
Yes, that's where the boss is from. Me, I'm from Lavallette, 30 miles away.
OK, here's one for ya. How about Alleluia, but Leonard Cohen. LOL
s
why won't this thread lock???? LOL...i got my new one up and running...cripes....
Not just the Boss... class of 89 was me. I know Lavalette. : )
JFK High School Willingboro 1987
Kenmore East High School, Tonawanda, NY 1994...
Pshaw!!! Could not find a good band from NY, huh???? That's okat, we will share our Jersey boys with you.
SMW
Hey Neil, want some inspiration? Go check out the song link I just posted on my thread.
SMW