Same old, same old........time for new......
I have spent the past year basically on PAUSE. Emotionally anyway. H started his A last April even though I didn't suspect it until late May. It was five months yesterday since I found him in the motel with OW.
We did counseling but how could it help us progress when he was lying and still with HER. It couldn't. Then he moved 2 1/2 hours away.
Now that I have told him I am moving forward, making plans to tell our S--he brings me wine. He says ILY. He calls me. He says he "doesn't want to do this". But when I asked a few days ago what other option he proposed if he didn't want to do this, he said "I don't know".
I was upset this morning. H called last night to talk to the kids briefly. We were having a storm. I asked him to call me back later, I wanted to talk to him. He said he would call in 30 min. He never called. His mom called me at 10 to see if I had heard from him he hadn't come home.
This morning he finally called and said he was at the hospital until late. His back was killing him (it has been for a while). Poor him, poor him, yada yada yada
He texted 10 min later today, "I know you are tired but you know...I am tired too Some my fault Some just life Either way I too am just hanging on"
WTF does that mean. Just hanging on to what? He doesn't want to hang on to me......
I just cannot do this anymore. I just can't. I don't want to devastate my son and confuse my daughter. But I am crying on the way to work again today and I just can't keep that up either. I think it is manipulative/screwy to say I love you, I don't want to do this, but then not do anything else, either.
When he comes tonight I want to tell him that we need to tell S THIS weekend. Because this whole thing is just getting way too hard for me. I don't want to go to the wedding I think I am too screwed up emotionally to be there....
I know there is nothing you guys can do to fix this, I just wanted you to know what my head is like today. Mush. If I don't post this weekend, don't worry, I may or may not stick around the house once H and I sort things out. You guys tell me we have way too many R talks. You are right. So I want to just get the last one over with.
Bring on the 2x4s but while you are at it can you tell me how to keep from feeling like I can't breathe and I am losing the life I always wanted?
Bbj,
you read my discussion. I would be a lying b*&ch to tell you I think you should do the same. You are not in the same situation. Please, hold on to the last little crumbs of patience and self control, I know you have and do not proceed the way I did. you have to be much more "mature" and ready to go on like this. You are not!! (do not get mad at me, you aren't, yet).
Listen to me! They say misery likes company but I don't want to have your company right now. You are a step back. Find the strength. Please, I am feeling this is not the right time for you. One week, wait just one week...
K
You guys tell me we have way too many R talks. You are right. So I want to just get the last one over with.
Maybe you should have the "last one". So many think that walking on eggshells and kissing butt is DBing. It isn't. There is not a thing in that book that says you can't make a stand. To summarize the entire book into one short sentence, it's "DO WHAT WORKS!" You started finding your happy and moving forward, and what does he do? He throws a bone your way..."I love you. I don't want to do this." So, did it work? Yes, it worked, but you expected way too much too soon.
So, it's up to you. Tell him you are done or just let your actions show you are done...either way, I think it will send the message that if he wants you, he's going to have to put his money where his mouth is. Just don't expect it to happen all in one fell swoop. And don't take a step his way until his actions tell you he's not just feeding you a line to have a back-up plan.
Thanks you guys for the feedback. I agree that in my heart,it is clear to me that there is still hope for us. I KNOW he is confused, but he is not cold and distant like he was in Dec/Jan.
But it is like what our counselor told us, we are in two different places. Since "the bomb" I have progressed in my understanding of our relationship, what I want, what I need, where I failed, what I would do differently, etc. I have read half a dozen books on M relationships. She said it is like I went from a 5 to a 70. I am not "there" yet, but I am covering a lot of ground. H is more like he went from a 2 to a 20. He openly admitted in MC that he wasn't getting anywhere......of course he was with OW too which could have hampered things. He says thats over for a month now but how do I know???
My specific questions are:
1)How do I deal with the fact that he knows he doesn't want to do this but doesn't know what TO do? I need a MAN, to hug, to kiss, to ML, to talk to about life, to support and have support me, etc. I have spent a year without this and I am TIRED!! I want to tell him I am getting mixed messages and ask for clarification but don't know if I should. I don't get sitting in la-la land. If he doesn't want to get a D, if he doesn't want to lose me, then I need SOMETHING to start getting better, ASAP! The patience train has jumped the tracks here....
2)The 180 that got me results was telling him that I was done doing all the work, that I was prepared/making plans to tell our S that it was over. I was very confident last weekend with H and in a positive mood most of the time. Friendly, but I know I should do the same this weekend but I FEEL LIKE CRAP! I am not weepy any more, just feel empty inside. Should I try to fake it and act like I did last weekend?
I am just frustrated at the thought that, even if I put telling him off a month, we are going to break my S's heart for (maybe) no reason. If H thinks he will slowly, slowly work his way back to me, at this rate/pace it is just impossible that we would be together when I move to his town in 6 weeks. So even if we are "trying", we would still have to explain to S that we will be living apart......grr
I know I am incredibly impatient in your eyes. But I have tried, tried, tried to wait and work for the past almost-year. And I don't understand how you can tell your wife you don't want to get divorced but you can't make forward progress either. What is that? And how the F*(K long am I supposed to wait?
I am re-thinking pushing him, that won't probably work. But I don't want him to think he can "hang out" indefinitely in "I don't want this, but I don't know" land either.
Thanks for putting up with me!
Forgot, my last post locked out my old thread
FYI, my son will get his tubes May 1, along with losing his adenoids. Also, our friend Erin was taken off the ventilator and moved to her own room, out of ICU, yesterday.
I am rethinking the whole thing w/H, I don't mean to make light of the term "bi-polar" but these days I have some MAJOR mood swings......sometimes it feels like all this emotion/tension is inside me and if I don't let it out I will explode! Any way, currently I feel like just being me, no expectations, go about my business, like last week. The only problem I see with that theory is that we fall into a "nice" pattern of being "polite" to each other, but not growing closer together. The plus is we aren't farther apart either, but I want to be GOING somewhere with this. Anyway I am still undecided but not as hopeless as before...
Journaling here....
Guess I haven't "screwed the pooch" quite yet, I always think I have! H called a few minutes ago. I was in class but called him back. He was looking for a phone number for a guy re. hay...anyway I was able to look up the number online for him--a first, I was able to locate it on whitepages.com before he could
! I teased him about being slow. Anyway he thanked me for helping him, I wished him well with his back pain, and that was that. He said he was coming down tonight vs. tomorrow.
Anyway just glad we had a "nice", neutral conversation after the emotions of the morning.
Bbj,
you know what I've been telling you all along. He needs to feel you mean business. I am sticking to this. You do need to have a final talk as you call it. But right now I think you would do it and expect him to suddenly wake up and run the 100m for the gold. He will not. And then you will have to either follow through OR EAT YOUR WORDS. And then you will have lost your credibility and all the work you are doing will go down the drain. The real DBing for you started a month ago. And that is when you saw a difference in his reactions as well. Give him some time to digest your change and then give him the final blow if you feel like it.
When you do have that talk you should try and make it as more effective as you can. And IMO you should keep the "we are done" attitude for a while longer and THEN hit him with the discussion.
I had the discussion but I am ok with "done". Are you? Really?
Love
K
It's ok to feel tired and the way you felt earlier. You supported me through times like this. I am here for you as well. Anytime...
K,
So the way I handled it last week is I was pleasant, but neutral. Like I was spending the weekend with a friend. We did yard work together, etc. But I didn't flirt, tease him, touch him at all.....
I was just a "nice" person who happened do be doing things with H some of the time. The rest of the time I did my thing (usher at church, play w/the kids, run errands, etc). I think that is the course this weekend. Not to "coddle" him, not to try to sweep him off his feet, etc. Just to be me doing my own thing.
You are right, that is the only thing that has gotten me progress so far. Being independent. I will continue to act "as if" we are on our way to an official separation. Because, in truth, we are, if things stay this way.
You are right, I am very much afraid that when we have the "final talk" it will be more of the same. He will be unable to "move" from where he is now. And I CANNOT, WILL NOT eat my words. If that is it, then that is it. But I don't know if it is really that time yet. So I shall wait another week. After that, we will think it over again.....
We'll talk/think about it as many times as you feel like it. And you will decide how to proceed based on your knowledge, your strength, your background, your goal, your kids', hapiness and your needs. Not based on your disappointment, your fatigue, your loneliness and of the feeling "something has to change NOW, no matter what". You are smarter than that.
K
BTW, how are you doing with that scary thing on your face?
Wow K you can see right through me can't you?
That is when I feel like maybe I am a little messed up in the brain. Because I will have a totally calm day and then suddenly the next day I am fired up, I need answers, I need actions, I need everything RIGHT NOW!!!!!!!!!! I don't know why I do that. Then the next day I wonder why I was so upset the day before...
Looking at this realistically, what has taken place in the last 7 days?
1)H came down to visit, he brought wine for "us"
2)He looked me in the eyes, hugged me, and said I LOVE YOU
3)He texted me and even called me at school which he never does
4)He left a msg. on the home phone "I love you ALL" to me and the kids
5)In reference to telling S we are separating, and to us in fact separating (I know we live apart but I mean like officially doing it) his response is "I don't want to do this"
On the other hand, he
1)Says "I don't know" when asked what else he thinks we could do besides separate
2)He didn't call me once when I asked him to
I am a crazy crazy lady b/c for anyone else I would think that was a great week.................
As far as the scary thing on my face, since they opened it up and took out the junk last week it has entirely healed over and the redness is less and less each day. I think it will leave a small scar, not nearly as big as the one on my back. The one there is quarter size, this will be like the top of a pencil eraser at most. And it is right on the jaw bone so it shouldn't show too much
Hey BobbiJo
I was just getting caught up with your escapades. I guess you are getting yourself strapped in for another weekend, just as I am.
My specific questions are:
1)How do I deal with the fact that he knows he doesn't want to do this but doesn't know what TO do? I need a MAN, to hug, to kiss, to ML, to talk to about life, to support and have support me, etc.
You deal with it in the simplest way possible. You extract the positive from what is present. That would be - "He doesn't want to do this." Also CORRECTION - You may WANT a man to hug, kiss & ML with. You do not need one!! Want VS Need.
It is time to take inventory of your positives. As you know, your family is comprised of more than just your confused H. Think of your family as a whole. I am sure there are many positves to think of there. Most of all do not head in the direction of DESPAIR. That area is ruled over by the Devil. That is where he wishes for you to go. Do not yield to the wishes of the Devil.
Make sure to have enough things for you to do this weekend for either you or you and the kids. Count on nothing from H. He is a long ways away from being capable of doing anything which will make you truly happy.
I hope and pray that God brings abundant sunshine to you throughout your weekend. Bask in the glory of what is good and right. Keep marching and be confident. You are getting it right.
BBJ,
I am sorry that I've missed being here for you all day. I've been dealing with my own "issues". I am sorry about what you are going through right now. I wish I could make it all better.
I know you feel like you might be losing everything you "dreamed about and always wanted". However, I doubt your dreams consisted of a cheating and lying husband. I'm not trying to be mean, I'm just trying to make sure you have a little reality. This guy is putting you through hell. That doesn't mean the marriage should be over, it just means that you have to outline what you want. What it is that you need to consider allowing him back.
While I love Kalni, I disagree about telling your son. I think he already knows. Besides, I hate lying. Just in general it bothers me. I can't do it and won't (Sunshine, will you forgive me?).
You are a strong woman and a special person. Be strong and show him that strength. He will change or he is an idiot. If he is an idiot do you really want him back?
Woog,
Boy are you right. About a lot. You are right when you warn me to be good b/c I get these urges (like I said, my emotions are all out of whack) to do things right in the moment but I always react without thinking when I do that.
And I am in a lot of denial I think. B/C if I completely, objectively looked at what H has done to me over the past year (and at other times over the past ten), there is no reason I should want him in my life other than as the father of my children. At least, not without A LOT of work on his part. Work on himself that he needs to do before he can work on us.
That is why I want to tell S now. Because even though I wish/want/desire that H will wake up from his current state, I feel in my gut that he is no where near ready.. So I need to prepare my S for that. My wishing for a miracle isn't going to help my son. For his sake, if for nothing else, I need to be realistic.
Speaking of S, I am planning to go over "the talk" with H this weekend, to practice for telling S next weekend. To me that isn't some kind of unnecessary relationship talk/drama, that is the reality we need to handle together as co-parents.
And if my H really is such an idiot that he doesn't want a strong, smart, funny, cute, witty, outgoing, cheerleader/pompom/sorority girl who is great with kids, and who also JUST happens to be the mother of his children and wife of ten years, I SHOULDN'T want him back. It doesn't mean I won't cry about it and hate it that it ends, but I shouldn't want him if he doesn't know how good he has/had it......
Oh and tomato, you are right I don't need a man. But I WANT one! It is so nice to feel a strong pair of arms holding you, touching you, I could go on,,,,,,,,,,,,,just suffice it to say it has been awhile
BBJ,
Save what you wrote on the post above. When you feel uncertain or unsure of your direction read it. I am proud to call you a friend and my "lil sis".
Other than the part of about "want". You'll have that again. I promise. You are too wonderful a woman to be lonely for long (either your husband pulls his head out or someone else finds out how great you are). I know what you mean about someone holding you. It's one of my biggest temptations with G27. She is a touchy feely person and I sort of miss that. You have to be strong and so do I.
Hey Bbj,
I hope you had a fruitful weekend. I hope you finally saw somekind of progress. Let us know how it went.
K
Hey,
you posted on my thread but you didn't post on yours. What is going on?
K
K,
I haven't posted b/c I don't know how to boil 3 days down into a page.
I think this is the turning point, make-or-break week for us. Maybe that sounds over the top, but that is how it seems. I am not at all sure what I should do, how I should do it.
The gist of the weekend is that H is an all-out mess. His back hurt so bad he couldn't sleep either night, that and our situation keeping him awake. His chiropractor told him it is all muscular and will only heal with time and rest. He says he has no time to rest.....add it to the list of his problems. H sees himself in this giant hole and no one can get him out but him. And he doesn't see any of the ropes or ladders that are all around him (his own strength, God, his family, friends, me, etc). Everything that can go wrong, does. He spent 4 hours yesterday putting a shower pan liner in the shower in the basement. Then he realized the Lowe's people gave him the wrong directions for the sealant and he had to tear it out.....then he was packing to leave and went down and another pipe was leaking....he actually broke down in tears several times yesterday. Everything, to him, in his life is turning to SH!T. My biggest urge is to say, everything is going wrong because you are making the wrong choices, but I didn't say that, not once.
Anyway our situation is I asked him to practice the talk with S. He didn't want to. I asked if I would have to do it alone. He said no. It comes down to he really just doesn't want to get a divorce, he doesn't want to break up the family. He said he feels certain that the news will "destroy", and "crush" our son. He cried when he said that. I told him the only other option for me was if H could commit to working on us being a "real" married couple, meaning I want the closeness, the trust, the partnership back. I said I can't stay with you just so Nathan isn't unhappy.
He pointed out that his mom left his dad a dozen times and always came back and that as a kid he wished she would stay gone from his dad b/c they were so unhappy together. I said, that is not what I want for us. But the options aren't 1)stay together miserable or 2)split up and be miserable. I told him in my book the third option was to change our patterns and make us a couple that didn't look like EITHER of our parents' marriages. It is just so hard for him to believe that is possible.
I asked what held him back from opening up to me. He said he has been close to me and then hurt me so many times he doesn't want to do that again. Doesn't want to find himself back "here" in 2 years, 3 years...........I said that was the whole point of our separation, figuring out if he and I could do the "work" needed to make sure we weren't the same couple as before. I also told him he was rewriting the past too b/c we have had years of good times. He agreed that was true, and I agreed I had done the same thing trying to overlook some of the bad times. Anyway I told him I needed him to be able to be my husband and let me love him like a wife should or we couldn't do this anymore.
He just keeps saying he has thought and thought and thought and hasn't been able to make a decision. He doesn't want to lose me, he knows "logically" (my word, based on what he says) that I am an amazing wife, mother, lover, friend, etc. He knows that the kids would be best served living with a mom AND dad who love them and love each other and are committed to being in a strong, healthy marriage. But he can't seem to make the leap into believing with all his heart that WE can be that couple.
Anyway he cried every time we talked about it. He wants more time, but he understands that I think it has been enough time. In his current mind state, another two months and I think we would still be right here. He says he wants to touch me, hold me, be close to me, but when he tries, he "can't". Some guy out there translate that for me. I wonder if it is guilt b/c he has hurt me so much and doesn't deserve those things with me? But shouldn't that be MY decision?
He said again how all he makes are bad decisions. He changed jobs a couple years ago, and regretted it. He isn't sure the job he is in now was a good choice. He bought a big truck 2 years ago, it was a bad decision. Now he thinks the new truck was the wrong choice,,,,,,,yada yada. So he is afraid to choose in our Marriage b/c it will also be the wrong choice. I told him not choosing was a choice b/c he knows that means I will decide on my own, that I have decided.
The bottom line is that I told him we will tell Nathan next weekend if he can't make a decision to "jump" and work on us by then. I know time lines and ultimatums are dangerous. And I do NOT want to get a divorce. And I KNOW H doesn't either. It was coming off of him in waves this weekend. He just doesn't know how to get it back on track. And I can't walk him through it, he has to do it himself. With all he has done to hurt me, hurt US this past year--and before that--coming back to our marriage has to be HIS decision, not something I "made" him do.......
So even though I do not want to go forward this way I really don't see a lot of options. Time is NOT on my side, I know you guys think it is. The longer I give H, the bigger hole he digs himself.......
BBJ,
He needs help. Not to continue my analogy, but he is a drowning man. Be careful, he will take you down with him. It's okay to love him, but do it from a safe distance.
He can't be what you need right now. Separation doesn't mean a divorce and I am sure you know that. But, in my opinion you need some space from him and he needs to get his head on straight. Right now my guess is that he hates himself for all sorts of reasons. There is no way for him to find a way to make himself happy and he is looking for someone to do it for him. The other woman was his attempt to fill some hole in him and it didn't work. He is merely flailing about right now.
You are going to have to be strong and determined. I wish I could tell you an easy answer. The only advice I have if for you to encourage him to find individual help. He needs it. Stay away until he shows you he is willing to work on himself. It's not a make or break time. It's a "he needs help" time. Let him get help and then work on the marriage.
I am so sorry BBJ.
Another interesting snippet of the weekend....
Shock of all shocks, S got ANOTHER ear infection. Antibiotics ran out Wed, he was full-on infected by Sunday. He cried all day, his ear hurt, temp of 104, the usual
On the way to the Urgent Care at 9:00 pm last night, S made a few choice comments:
1)When we get an apartment in Iowa, maybe Daddy could get an apartment next door to us so we could see him every day. It would be nice to live by him and see him all the time.
2)But once we build our new house (H has always planned to build a house on the family farm), we could live with Daddy and be a family again.
My only comments were, "I know you will be so excited when you can spend time with your Daddy every day." And, "Yes, it would be nice if we could all live in a nice new house, wouldn't it?" Don't know if that was right or wrong....
I texted S's comments to H, who had just left the house when we did and was driving to Iowa. My only words on the text (I mainly quoted S) were, "Looks like he is smarter than we think. Apparently he thinks we will work it out though."
My H's reply? "Whoah". Don't know for sure what that is, other than shock.
I am not certain how to proceed this week. I am thinking I should let him see how it is going to be. When he calls, I will pass the phone to the kids, let him talk to them, period. Take myself out of the equation. I think it is the only way to know if he makes a decision to work on things, that it was his decision and not influenced any further by my actions/words.
Actually, I mentioned during our convo. yesterday that it should be easier for him that I have made the decision, b/c he won't have to keep having these conversations. He can just talk to the kids and not have to "deal" with me. He got all upset and said that isn't what he wanted...
So any way correct me if I need it, 2x4 me if I need it, I will welcome whatever you've got. But I plan to just remove myself from events this week and let him ponder whatever he wants to ponder.
BBJ,
I can't fault your approach, but that is my opinion. Btw, your son takes after you.... he is smart.
Woog,
You are right, he needs help. That is part of why I see it as "make or break". Because if he can't reach out for help from a counselor or pastor or mentor or wherever he can find it, then it won't ever work for us. It will be more than a separation. I can't be with him when he is so messed up. That is what sucks. I don't want to make the decision, but I don't see the other options. If we had no kids I could see just living my life, getting my own place, moving forward and letting him figure his stuff out. Maybe we could work it out, maybe not....
But I have two little kids watching what is going on. There is no good way to explain this to them. They need more consistency, not, "Daddy and I will just see what happens.........". I don't expect him to be able to get his act together in one week. I don't expect him to become the stable, composed, in-control man I used to know. I guess I was just hoping I would see him acknowledge he needs help, and tell me that once he is back in one piece he wants to do all he can to be a "real" family again. I just don't see how that can happen, which is why this whole thing sucks.
Have you told him that? Exactly what you just wrote?
BobbiJo -
Your H sounds so confused. He does not have a clear vision of his own future, let alone that of a family. I agree with Woog - you just have to live your life without any expectations of him.
It is so tough to hear the words of your S's wishes. However, as you mentioned, living in a loveless marriage may not be in the best interest of the children. I mentioned all 3 options before to W and she too could not fully understand the best option - work on being happy in the marriage.
I am in a similar situation because my W also does not have any idea of her long term future. She is still living with OM and I am living my life as if we are divorced. I dont know when I will pull the final trigger, but I do know that as time passes, I am losing more and more interest in wanting to continue to be married to the person my W has become.
Just as in my situation, only you can answer the question of when enough is enough. I just dont see the need to rush things now as I am fairly content (other than lack of love and intimacy).
As for the ear infection, has a doctor ever recommended to having the adenoids removed? My S had this operation done when he was 5 and has not had an ear infection since. There is the risk because of the anesthesia they use which should be considered. My boy had some breathing problems when he came out of the anesthesia and he was very scared and crying.
Woog,
Our conversations are usually tangential, we start out in one place, drift somewhere else, come back to the middle, move in another direction...
That is my way of saying I may have expressed some of these ideas to H, but probably not in such a concise way. Also some of it I think I concluded overnight as I re-thought events.
Do you think that I should express these thoughts to him "just as I wrote them" on here? Maybe before I go pitch dark this week I should just give him the 2 paragraph snapshot of where I stand. I usually bombard him (and you guys
) with loads of thoughts at once. I welcome your opinion.
I would tell him exactly the same way as you wrote it.
My boss comes from Jordan, ever since this mess started with my H he has given me valuable advice. He once told me a "story". He said, let's pretend you see a friend you love, in the sea, who (you know) can't swim, screaming for help, fighting for his life, what do you do?
You sit outside on the beach and yell at him, "you stupid a$$, why did you go in since you can't swim? I hope you enjoy this!! Who is going to come rescue you? You better learn how to swim fast the way I do or you are dying...!!"
or
You go in, carefully, save him, bring out on the shore and once his regains his conscious again, you slap him big time, to get the last bit of water out of him (and "punish" him for scaring the hell out of you)?
I don't know why, this is what popped in my mind after reading your posts.
Reading what your H was like this weekend, it sounds to me you are asking for something he doesn't have at the moment. Either you keep asking knowing you are not going to get it, stop and wait until he has it or quit because you can't wait.
Think about it.
Keep still this week I agree,
I'll post some later,
K
Woog,
I think I will tell him those things this afternoon.
K,
In your story, the problem is I KNOW he can't swim, so I want to save him. But I can't swim in and save him. As Woog says, he is flailing around too much and bigger than me, so I hurt myself when I try to save him and we both wind up tired and bruised...We have been repeating this scenario for months, with a few minor variations. He didn't want to be saved, didn't think he needed saving. Now he thinks he is BEYOND saving, I fear...
I would love option B in your list, wait for him to get what he needs. I don't want to quit. But what to do with the children while I wait, and for how long????
That's why in my story it says "you go in, carefully..."
I can see you are past this point but your H sounds a mess. Why on earth do you expect to get a decent reaction out of him at the moment? Maybe he is a mess because as Woog says, you stuck to your guns for the first time EVER? Maybe you helped him a bit to become the person he is now. What are your choices now? Bbj, if you think he is a GOOD man then give him a chance to get his act together. For the first time, give him CLEAR directions what you want from him by sticking to your firm position. Let him find his way.
You are asking me what to do with your kids while you do not know what is happening in the future? Do you remember where I stand? Exactly the same status. THEY KNOW that their Dad may come back or may not come back. They are discussing it with me and him. They are confused. I am dealing with this. Long term wise, as much as, you keeping quiet a bit longer, confuses them, believe me, once/if their dad is back home they will forget, they are still young. My C even, although she forces my H to make a decision, she tells me that if the outcome is good they will be fine.
Whay don't you call a C, ask yours, explain exactly what is going on, if there is another way to handle this (Sorry Woog, I don't agree with Bbj telling S just now). If you were in the same city, I would say go ahead. But now, what is the problem? You have a reason why you two do not live together, it's not even a lie (yet)...
K
BBJ,
In a way I agree with Kalni. However, to continue the analogy, throw him a life perserver (aka get him to a C). Do'nt go in yourself. You can't save him yourself.
Kalni, there is no right answer and I can't say I am right to tell BBJ to tell her son right now. I only know that kids know there is an issue and confusion at that age isn't a good thing. I am not a therapist and I don't even play on on TV. It's just my opinion.
Yes, there is no right answer.It's just my opinion and your opinion. I guess what I AM saying, actually I may have not said it yet, telling S will not make it easier for him, or Bbj... It could even become worse.
K
So, are we having our first creative argument here?
The smart lifeguard treads water just out of reach and waits for them to tire themselves out. Remember lifeguards always have a flotation device with them. They can out last the best of the flailers.
Thank you, thank you, thank you......
I wish he would just get tired already and let me carry him to shore. I wish he could lean on me even a little bit....when I made a suggestion about the shower yesterday, he said "I don't want you to "fix" it". So I guess listening, validating is all I can do if he decides to open up to me again. I know there are times I tell him about my day and he gets out the mental "tool box" to fix things. I don't want him to fix them, I want him to listen and "feel" me......So maybe that is all I am supposed to do?
Woog I don't remember if I already told you. I did tell him exactly what I told you in writing this morning. But I told him in a message, I knew if I called and talked to him he would interrupt before I got done, or be distracted by another call @ work. So I wrote it down for him, to digest as quickly or slowly as he wants. In the past he has carried my notes around with him so I know he pays attention to them. I plan to just sit back now and do nothing where he is concerned.
I take that back. I will pray for him every single day, pray he does what is right for him, and thus what is right for "us".
I will take care of "his" children and love them like they deserve.
I will take care of "his" wife and make sure she stays strong and healthy, at least as best I can.
I will make sure we are all taken care of so he can just focus on himself. The rest is up to him.
It always was, but man do I like to snatch that rope up. Like the mom who jumps in and does everything for their kids. What do they end up with? A helpless kid who resents their mom for letting them be helpless.....That is not quite what I am up against but I just KNOW I can't do this for him. He stayed in the past b/c he knew it was what I wanted, what was "best". I need to know that this time it would be because HE wanted it so much....
I can tell this will be a long week. I keep thinking
*Am I sure he KNOWS how much I love him?
*Does he know I am willing to work it out?
*Does he understand that I deserve better and he needs to give me better or let me go?
*Does he know this doesn't equal me giving up on him, but me expecting more from him?
I know that he must know these things, it is just so out of the ordinary for me to take a step back. Sit still BBJ, sit still......
BBJ,
Just to be clear, I'm all for you waiting. I just don't know if you have the proper life guard training. Maybe we can decide that the C is a lifeguard and you are there to point him in the right direction.
Enough with this analogy..... I've got a headache.
Yeah, in the message I just let him know that his tears and frustration last night showed me he needs to get help from someone, counselor/pastor/friend/mentor (the list I wrote earlier), and that I hope he seeks that help.
I don't have the proper training for this. My main method of healing is loving and supporting someone. For years my MIL has said I am WAY too nice to her son?!? She has often said I need to be "tough" on him, and that was before she knew about the As.......hate it when the MIL is right
You don't need to give me analogies. I like the truth straight up, just fine! Easier to digest for me. You are saying I may not be prepared to deal with his current emotional state, right? That he is screwed up in ways I can't fix, that he needs someone skilled in the art of self-improvement, self-awareness to help him find the way back to the "old Dan"? If I could fix him by loving him to death, he would be perfect by now?
I know, I know, I know. I can't fix this. That is the sucky part. I hate waiting. I am patient with my little school children but not at all patient with my life....
Find a way to be patient with him. I know there must be a good man in there for you to love him like you do. Sometimes it takes a person hitting bottom for them to ask for help. Maybe that's what he needs.
In my opinion your MIL is right. But, that's what love does to a person. You don't have to stop loving him to do what's right for you. As a matter of fact, I don't think you could.
Be strong BBJ. You are awesome.
Thanks big brother.
H called tonight. D was already in bed. As soon as it rang I handed the phone to S without talking. He talked to his dad 100 miles a minute for about 5 minutes, then gave me the phone.
H was laughing at something our S said. I laughed back. We talked about 2 minutes and then I said I would let him get some rest, I knew he was tired.
It was sort of hard for me to just get off the phone, but I knew I needed to. My urge was to say something about how I loved him, wanted to be there for him, etc. But I didn't. I just laughed about what our S said, filled him in on some missing details from S's story (he was telling dad about meeting an "old" friend
from his former day care at Dairy Queen tonight, the boy told S his name was "still Owen", like it would have changed in the past 18 months?!?
Cute), and got off the phone.
I have to believe that my H knows just how much I love him, or I wouldn't have come this far with him. All I can do is take care of me and the kids and hope he loves us enough to want to work it out... I know most of his problems are his alone, but that means, to me, that he would have them whether or not he was with us. So why get rid of the loving supportive family because he has personal issues? Again, not my decision to make. Gotta focus on what I CAN do. Which, unfortunately for me, is the dishes............
"I have to believe that my H knows just how much I love him, or I wouldn't have come this far with him."
Believe it. Let your last message stand. I know its hard.
"I know most of his problems are his alone, but that means, to me, that he would have them whether or not he was with us. So why get rid of the loving supportive family because he has personal issues?"
Because they can't "fix" it.
"It was sort of hard for me to just get off the phone, but I knew I needed to."
If you knew you would have done it.
"My urge was to say something about how I loved him, wanted to be there for him, etc. But I didn't. "
This has not worked in the past and I already got on you about doing this. I am glad you did not this time.
"Gotta focus on what I CAN do. Which, unfortunately for me, is the dishes"
If that keeps you busy. Rock on! If you need some more you can come and do mine. D14 can't seem to load the dishwasher. There is a 20 spot in it for ya! Hel* if you do a good job I'll even give you a smack on the butt.
I can see you getting there.. BJ. Sorry you always catch me at my "Drama Queen" moments.
I can deal with your Drama Queen moments! I told Woog, I like my advice and my truth straight up. No need to decipher the code. Just smack me with the 2 x 4 so I understand you. No, seriously, I am one smart girl (really!), but with my love life, I see things through Emotion so I need reality checks from more objective sources. You give me those.
Yeah, I talked to him for 2 minutes. Should have just let S hang up when he was done. Maybe tomorrow I will do it. For me it was victory just to keep it short and not say anything I used to say. I can't go back to that, it didn't work then and it won't work now. It is just taking me time to realize that not talking to H doesn't make me a B!tch. Just means I am giving him the space he needs.
And I don't LOVE doing the dishes. My dishwasher broke 2 weeks ago. I get a new one in 2 weeks. Until then, I am the dish-doing mama. Trust me, I am good at most things. I would get your 20 and the butt smack if I did yours...
I am going to do my best to "let my last message stand". I hear you on that. H needs to "feel" my resolution. He needs to know I am not playing. Because this is too important to screw up now.
BJ
p.s.
"I know most of his problems are his alone, but that means, to me, that he would have them whether or not he was with us. So why get rid of the loving supportive family because he has personal issues?"
Because they can't "fix" it.So, how does that make sense? Nobody can "fix" it, so he should be with nobody?
BBJ,
Just so you know: he does know how much you love him.
Trust me. You don't have to prove it to him.
"Nobody can "fix" it, so he should be with nobody?"
He can. He just has to have a reason to apply himself.
He is not getting any from you. (reasons)
Leaving H alone sucks. I can do it, I just hate it....
You are right, Woog (and FG). I KNOW my H knows how much I love him. Some times that is almost part of the problem. He feels like SH!T because he has done these things to someone who DOES love him so much.
I would think his reasons to work on himself would include
1)himself
2)his kids
3)his wife
4)his family
I don't think it is my job to give him those reasons. Besides, even if he is messed up he is a very smart man. Very smart. So he already knows.
Nothing new to report. Just in a crabby mood today. I know this is up to H. I just don't understand the "fog" I guess. How can you look at your wife and kids who love you and want you, and NOT think that they are the "right" decision?
BBJ,
I've never met your husband, but my guess is that he doesn't like himself and therefore can't like/love anyone else. Being smart has nothing to do with it. He needs to find whatever it is inside of him hurts and work on it.
The way you are describing him makes me think that there is a "black hole" inside of him for some reason and he keeps trying to find ways (other women, strippers, etc) to fill it.
If it makes a difference I used to have a bit of a similar issue (albeit smaller scale). I used to think that my wife was the only person that could make happy. I used her love to fill that hole in me. When she told me it was over that hole sure was empty. Since then I have figured out that I can make myself happy. It took at lot of soul searching, some good friends and some people to talk to (including you).
He needs that stuff.
Thank you, Woog. You are always on target.
The truth is, my H DOESN'T like himself. And no matter how much faith I have in him, that won't give him faith in himself. He has said more than once that he does not like the person he has become. That he seems to be lost from himself and doesn't know how to find his way back. It is hard for me because I am a caretaker and a fixer and this is beyond the scope of my ability. Plus, I know, it is not my job.
He wasn't always this way, not to this extent. I know that it must have started years ago, he has said since he has been with me, which is when he was only 18 years old. I think he has tried to minimize the hole, avoid it, ignore it, but it grew bigger without him working on it the right way. He pushes things down, hides them from me and from others, and it just grows and grows. So then, ten years or so ago, he just started trying to fill it/block it out by making the bad choices (strippers, magazines, cheating, going out with the guys, etc).
I am not sure he sees it that way, but I do. I don't know if he can save himself. I hope he can. At least it seems like he wants to at this point.
He can save himself. He just needs a little help and a desire to change.
I don't know if this qualifies as a "development", probably not...
I am not contacting H this week. I told him he could call the kids anytime he wanted.
Well, he called me on the cell phone an hour ago and left a msg. to call him. I called him back just a minute ago since my kids are having lunch. He said he was trying to get into our e-mail and couldn't remember how to access messages. I started to tell him and he said he had already figured it out himself.....then he asked me about S and his ears, and talked about him for about a minute. All told it was like a 90 second, maybe 2 minute convo. About email and S.
H is a capable guy, I really doubt he had to call me about e-mail. Besides, the question he had was how to get messages past the first 25. There is an arrow at the top of the screen to navigate to the old messages. This is the EXACT question I asked him 2 months ago, and HE showed ME how to switch screens?
H never forgets anything.......
Woog I may be Ali-analyzing as Kalni says. But I am wondering if he is "feeling me out" like you thought he had before, looking for old BBJ. I assume it is a good thing that I did not mention anything about us, him, my feelings, etc. Just gave an update on Nathan's medical status (ear better but very tired and cranky) and got off the phone.
In my opinion that is exactly what he is doing. He is looking for his safety net (or blankie). He is going to keep doing that until he gets upset that you won't play the game by his rules. Or at least the rules he is used to playing.
Don't be surprised if he gets angry before he gets better.
I am expecting him to get angry too Bbj. I agree with Woog. He is checking out how "real" your attitude is. How determined you are.
Show him
K
Thanks for the feedback. I figured he was doing a "temperature check"--I heard somebody call it that once.
Do you think I am taking the right approach? There is a fine line between firm and rude. I figured if I did not return his call, that would be rude. Since I stuck to the subjects he raised, our Son and the e-mail, I think it was "okay" to talk to him. I will not bring up anything M-related, and I doubt he will either, even if he calls again today/this week.
I would not be surprised if he got mad. But he won't openly get mad that I won't "play" anymore. He will pick a subject (how I take care of the kids, the house, money, etc) to get upset about. Because if he makes it about my actions, he knows he will "lose".
Over the weekend he was getting mad b/c I told him that he wouldn't have to talk to me anymore, just the kids, we could start dividing our things, our money, etc. He got mad and said, "That isn't what I want!" I very calmly responded, "If you aren't able to discuss any other options, do you think I have an alternative?" And he said, "no, no" very sadly.
So whenever his temper gets out of control these days (less and less so far but I know that can change), I can usually point out to him in about ten seconds that he is really mad at HIMSELF.....
An un-related GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
My son has parent meetings for kindergarten next week.
Then in May they have 2 days for kids to go spend 1/2 day at the school, called "kindergarten roundup".
I saw the sign at my school today and got to thinking about S's school. They gave me the dates when I was there to interview, but no further info.
I called the school today to see if I picked which meeting and which day to go to the school, since I hadn't heard....
Well lo and behold they had called my MIL???? (I am the one who called the school in February and gave them my name and number in Kansas City, shows you what a small town it is)They called her a week or so ago and SHE told them to mail HER the information.
So apparently my MIL knows what day/time I am supposed to come, they said they mailed the information out last week. Meanwhile I am in the dark and am the one who will have to take time off to go up to Iowa for these events??
I know, not on-topic but I wanted to vent.......
Hi BBJ,
Sounds like you are staying strong in your commitment to yourself about conversing with your H... you should be really proud of yourself!!!!
Hugs,
W2G
PS.. I used to REALLY let my MIL get to me.. and I had VERY good reasons for being po'd at her... but I try not to let her get to me anymore. It sounds like your MIL overstepped the line in my opinion... so I'm glad you vented here. Are you going to ask her to forward on the paperwork/information on to you?
Regarding the MIL
I very nicely called her around 5. Told her I called the school re. kindergarten round up and they said they had mailed her the info. She played dumb, said she hasn't seen any mail for us. I said please keep an eye out, and that I would just call the school tomorrow and have them look the information up for me. Not a single mean/nasty comment spoken...
And yes, I am doing my best to "stick to my guns" as they say. I know what I want, I know what I deserve. H has openly acknowledged that everything I want is very realistic, I am not "piling on" pointless demands/expectations. I want what any woman wants, a husband who is "there" emotionally and physically, who can be supportive and let his wife support him, too.
I just want the whole package, not two of us under the same roof for the sake of the kids, reputations, etc. He knows it, and I am 99% sure he wants it too. He just doesn't have the kind of faith I have that it can really happen AND, more importantly for him I think, that he actually DESERVES it after all that has happened....
Getting ready for bed. H called at 9:15. Was hoping S wasn't in bed already, but assumed he would be since it was late. Explained he was running late from going to his friend Doug's to pick up the livestock trailer--Doug was yammering to me in the background (he is one of those loveable-yet-irritatingly obnoxious/happy people).
Anyway I peeked in on S and he was awake (Bad Mommy put him to bed at 9, not 8:45
). So he talked to H for a couple minutes.
S gave me the phone. H asked me a couple no-big-deal questions, or made random conversation--I honestly don't remember what we talked about...we talked all of 60 seconds. Then he said, Well I am still at Doug's (which is 90 min from his parents') so I better get going. I said thanks for calling S and hung up.
I felt bad we didn't talk but surprisingly not that bad. He could have hung up after S said goodbye. And he sounded pretty upbeat. Don't know if that is good or bad. But if he was all fired up to "dump" me I doubt he would sound that way. Ok, no more ali-analyzing (I totally stole that from Kalni!).
My mom actually asked me today if I would be mad if SHE called H??? She wants to leave him a message, not actually talk to him. Mom has known H since he was 14 years old, and we started dating when he was 18. She just wanted to tell him that she was thinking of him and wants him to know that he will always be welcome in our family regardless of past choices.
I don't know what to think about that. On one hand, I think it is nice. Because he has cheated on her daughter with 2 different women (3 if you count the one-nighter in Tokyo 8 yrs ago, I know it "counts" but is different to me than an ongoing affair). So I know H has a lot of guilt and does not want to "face" my family.
In fact, my dad told his dad back in November (our dads have known each other for 50 years, we live in a small town, remember??
) that he wanted to kill H for hurting me. Actually, the weekend I found H in the hotel w/OW, our parents called EACH OTHER several times???
So last word H had from my family was that my dad wanted to kill him. But if my mom calls THIS week, I don't want him thinking I put her up to it, since I gave him this week as a time line. Anyway, I told her to hold off for now. I think it would be nice for H to know that he doesn't have to "hide" from my family, but I don't want to be seen as manipulative. I didn't ask my mom to call him, but he may see it that way.....
No more news. I will check in on my friends before I turn in...
Just my opinion but I would ask Mom not to call. He is likely to "read into it" something unintended. Besides, I doesn't go with the new independent BBJ. It sounds a lot like the old BBJ making it easy for him to be a b=tt.
Good, I told her not to call at this point. So I am glad that is what you think as well. His focus should be on HIM, and what he needs to do. I won't muddle it with outside influences....
Besides, in the future, if we decide to work it out, she can be accepting of him THEN. If he decides to stay gone, then I can always send my dad to kill him
No killing BBJ.
Torture...... Perhaps.
Thanks Woog! Now I can go to sleep smiling....what a great guy you are!
(((((BobbiJo)))))
A good time to be quiet, and ask your mom to be quiet, too!
Sleep well!
Jeff
I am surprising myself with how quiet I have been. But I will continue to be quiet, and have told my mom to do the same!
I do think it was nice of her to want to talk to H after all the crap he has pulled. If it were my D in this situation 30 years from now, I don't know if I would want to be nice to her H! But, although the thought was nice, I told her the action wasn't needed at this point.
It is strange to think that this weekend, I could/very well may be hearing my H say he doesn't want to try any more. I know he doesn't want a D, he has said so. And I know he will miss me, the kids, our life. But I am probably (most likely) asking him for more than he is capable of giving right now. I know that, but I have to ask for it any way. Because doing what we have been doing just wasn't working for me any longer.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
My mom left me a VM while I was teaching. Kids just went to music, so I checked her message.
SHE CALLED HIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I DIDN'T WANT HER TO!!!!!!!!!!!!
She sounded all weepy on the phone (I HATE when I cry b/c my mom does it ALL THE TIME!
):
BBJ I did call Dan. I got his voicemail. I just told him that I felt like I needed to call him b/c I hadn't talked to him in so long and I wanted him to know that I am here for him if he ever wants someone to talk to. I told him that I support him and I love him. (She said the "I love him " part totally crying).NOOOOOOOOOOO!
I want to crawl under a rock. I don't want H to think it was my idea or that I am using my mom to manipulate him. But if I say something to him, he will know I "know" about it. I am thinking "bury it, bury it with a shovel and bury the shovel" (a very old, obscure quote from the
Coach tv show). Meaning, I say nothing and act as though I don't have a clue if H ever brings it up to me.
(Seriously, did she think H would say, yes, I am dying to pour my heart out to my wife's MOM? WTF? Mom did it b/c it made HER feel better. Grr)
I don't want to check this board again b/c I hate to imagine what you guys will have to say. I am just so freakin' embarrassed that my Mommy got involved. First my MIL gets MY kids kindergarten information. Now my mom has called my H????????
Can I go die now?
(((((((BobbiJo)))))))
At least she didn't say whacko stuff!
If he mentions it, just tell the truth, you didn't ask her to call him, and you didn't know she was going to. What else can you do?
I know, Jeff. Thanks!
I didn't want her to do it, I didn't tell her to do it, I can't control what she does. I guess I should be glad she didn't call three months ago when she was calling him every name in the book (to me, not to him) and saying he was worthless for running around leaving me with the kids.....
Now I just have to tie her up so she never calls again
Actually I don't think she will. Mom does things for Mom, and she got what she wanted, the chance to speak her mind.....
I know it isn't my fault so I have nothing to feel bad about, but I have always had an overinvolved, overprotected mother so it brings me flashbacks of high school when she would embarrass me in front of my friends.
Okay, deep breath, back to work.
I would not sweat it that much. Just be thankful she got voicemail instead of "Live Dan". I could imagine if she did get your H live that it would be a cry festival between the two of them.
I dont know what my mom would say to my W if they were to talk. She could not say anything bad about W's A since my mom had one herself. I would worry that my mom might say something like - "Look, I had an A and it turned out ok as I am still madly in love with OM after over 30 years".
BBJ,
It's not that big a deal. I agree that "live Dan" would have been worse. There isn't anything you can do about it now. Move ahead and act as if it didn't happen.
You guys are right, thanks. As far as I know, it never happened! Problem solved
I will continue to "stick to the plan"--no contact from me, let H do what H wants to do.
I know it wasn't THAT big a deal, it was just a little embarrassing for me. But fortunately, H has known my mom for 20 years so he knows what she is like and I am sure he won't hold me accountable.....
It is 70 today and I get to go to an in-service for teachers now. Sit in a stuffy lunchroom and listen to some "experts" tell me how to do my job better.
For months before and after separation I felt guilty and resposnible for my friends and family towards my H. There was a clear rule "nobody talks to him about us". After a while some people said they felt it was their duty to try and talk to him. I refused. Much later when I was relaxed some did without asking me. Later, very many times I thought about it as my way to contol things again. So I let go. Anybody, heck, everybody could talk to him and say whatever if it didn't involve "K told me to tell you this". Very many times I thought I should have let them do it in the first place because he took it as an "embargo" I forced on them. I don't know what is right or wrong. As long as you didn't ask for it, pretend you don't know about. Maybe even, tell him, you had no idea and you hope she didn't make him feel bad and that now you told her she should stay away.
Do not worry about it
K
Thanks K!
I went with the "I don't know anything approach"...
H called at 7 to give me the kindergarten roundup info. I told him I was in the middle of giving both kids a bath so I would call back.
Called back at 7:30, got VM. H called back at 8. Gave me the details. Told me when the parent meeting was, and what time.
I asked (STUPID), "Are we going together?" H's reply, "Why wouldn't we go together?" I said, "Oh, nothing, I wasn't sure with your work in Omaha, and me driving up from K.C. if we would get it coordinated".
What I meant was, if you tell me this weekend you don't want our marriage, are we still going together. But yay, I didn't say that.. Don't know if it "means" anything that he said "why wouldn't we". Because I plan to be the best "team" for our son whether we stay married or not, so I would want to do these things together either way.....it is just that this meeting is 1 week from now, so the whole thing would be so "new" if we decide to officially separate.
Including talking to D and S, it was a 15 minute phone call. Probably too long, but in light of the "mom" call earlier today I was wanting him to see I am regular old me, not in the middle of some scheme...he didn't mention the call and neither did I, so I think we are safely past it. Besides, in retrospect, his mom calls me 4-5 times a week. And I don't have (much of) a problem with it
Also, he said S goes to the 1/2 day of school BOTH days in May, he got assigned the afternoons. I said of course I would bring him up and take time off for those. H said he was going to come down from work (35 minutes away) over his lunch to drop S off with me. That is really great b/c H has always used work as an excuse NOT to do things like that--dr appointments, field trips at preschool, etc. Now he is taking a day off for the ear surgery, and taking two long lunches for the kindergarten roundup. I think, for his own sake, those are good developments.
Those are good developments for your husband. Maybe he is learning a few things after all. Perhaps the torture can be less tramatic and painful.... if you Dad does end up having to torture him after all.
Thanks Woog! I am glad you are conscious again, at least for now. You still need a lost of rest though, I am sure.
H has made some personal strides I think, being more open to helping out with the kids (my sister HATES when I say that, b/c "they are his kids, he is NOT "helping out"" ;)). I still think it is good for him to make the effort to do more with/for them. He always used to be great with S, but the past year with his A and all that, he hasn't been around as much as he used to. I think being gone all week at his job in Iowa lets him see how much he has missed....
Honestly I am getting scared about tomorrow. Red, I promise I don't mean anything bad by this, but your post tonight added to my worry. I am thinking that is the answer I will get. That he doesn't want to work on us. Or that we are not "fixable". That would be so sad b/c I think we are totally fixable, but then I am not the one who ever wanted this to end....
Point being, I told him last Sunday that I needed his "final answer" this weekend. B/C I can't do this any more. And really, I know I can't. So one way or another, something will be changing this weekend.
If it is for the better, I am not expecting butterflies and rainbows, or any of that chick flick stuff. I just want to be able to "relax" a little around H. For some of the eggshells to go away. To be able so say things like "where are WE going for dinner", or "what should WE get for D's birthday", etc.
If it is for the worse, then I know so much will be changing. We already live apart, but if the answer is "not interested", then I will not be spending the weekends with him like we do now. Of course, for the kids' sake we will have some family times together, but it will be different. But still, I will be able to start looking for "my" new home and make plans for "my" life. It isn't so much that I plan everything around H, but there is a big difference in planning if you don't have to factor in another person....
One thing that sticks out in my mind from last Sunday, when we had the talk that led to me saying I needed a definitive decision. I know this isn't DB, but I mentioned to H:
You say you keep making bad decision after bad decision. You left one job to move to KC, that was a bad choice. You left the KC job for Omaha, you think that may be the wrong choice. You bought the black truck 2 yrs ago, that was wrong. Now you think the new truck you got to replace the black truck may have been a mistake. If you have made all of those "wrong" decisions, aren't you concerned that you would look back on this (giving up on your wife and family) and think that it was a mistake?
H looked me straight in the eye and said, "And you are certain that this (staying in the M) is the right decision?"
I am wondering what he meant. If he was challenging the idea, or wanting me to help "sell" him on it, convince him that it was possible? I suppose I will never know.
Sorry to ramble, as I said I am getting nervous.
H actually called at 7 and left a VM on the home and cell phones, asking me to call him back. I did around 8, and filled him in on the hospital tour we took tonight to prep for Nathan's surgery. He laughed at my description of the kids in the scrubs they had to wear to go in the OR. He asked me some home-repair questions, we chatted for around 10 minutes or so. Nothing earth-shattering. I keep listening for clues in his voice, I didn't find any either way. He sounded more like "real Dan", though, to me. A lot of that edge and bitterness aren't as pronounced as they were in Dec-Feb. I sounded totally casual b/c that is the way I am approaching his calls, like no big deal.
Enough rambling. I will check in with you guys before I go to bed. Time to put the little ones in their beds........
Good Luck this weekend BBJ. It is very brave of you to throw a decision date out for your H.. I pray that he chooses you, your children and your family are worth it.. from where I stand it's the obvious choice.. but since I'm also a LBS I can't comprehend how anyone can walk away without giving it there all.
It's interesting to me that you said you heard the "real Dan".. that is something I've noticed with my H too... just seems more normal.. less alien like, right? It's a nice, yet confusing, observation to see the person you love in there now and again.
(((BBJ)))
W2G
PS.. How did Nathan feel about the surgery tour?
BBJ,
No answers for you. Just an opinion. He was asking you for validation. He wants everything to be okay with you so that he has something to fall back on. You've forgiven him in the past, he wants that forgiveness again. He wants it to be easy.
Just my opinion. And, you should know I have a fever and am on some really good cough medicine....
BobbiJo -
I remember when my son had his surgery for adenoids, they first gave him some nasty tasting drug that starts with a 'P' to calm him in preparation for when they wheeled him away to the operating room and give him the real anesthesia. They had him pick out a stuffed animal (a frog he named Ron from a book we had just read him) and then the drug started to kick in. It was pretty funny so see the huge smile on his little face caused by whatever that drug was.
The doctor told us that when they come out of the anesthesia following the operation that one of two possible things will occur. They will either be grooggy calm or they will be screaming scared and confused. Our boy was the later and it made me and W really apprehensive. You might want to prep your son a bit so that he understands that when he wakes that he wont know where he is but that everything is ok.
BTW... Ron the stuffed frog made a tour of Vietnam and Thailand that year. Even the Thai tour guides got a kick out of a frog named Ron.
W2G
Thanks for the good words! It is good to hear our "real" H's again, isn't it? But confusing a little too, as you said, b/c for me it feeds my hopes, since I figure if he sounds like the "good H" again, he should make good decisions for us, too. And of course I don't know if he will....
Nathan had a ball on the tour. They have one of those electric jeeps that kids can drive parked in the pre-op room. Kids get to drive it INTO the OR! How cute! So he got to practice driving it last night.(It is one a.m. but I fell asleep for 3 hours and just woke up so it seems like last night! Hope I fall back asleep after this) anyway he was not afraid at all, unfortunately he has been sick often enough that most of this doesn't phase him. Ben there, done that, etc.
Thanks again for thinking of me. Try to send me good thoughts tomorrow night (Fri. night) if you get a chance!
Hey!!!
What are doing up so late? It's morning here... I need to read your thread, I just wanted to say I am here before you go to bed.
K
Woog,
I know you are heavily medicated
, but you mentioned H was looking for my validation. Should I have given it to him? You also said he was wanting me to make it "easy" on him. Would my validating make it easy on him? Not sure if you are saying I SHOULD have "sold" him on the idea that us together was a good decision or not....
I guess either way that ship has sailed, since the discussion was almost a week ago. I wonder from time to time if I should have said something along the lines of, "Since you are doubting your ability to make good decisions, how about trusting MY judgement on this one? Give it a try and see if it is the right decision".
But I am also glad I didn't b/c I want him to have ownership of his own decisions, so he can't come back and say I "made" him do it--which would be total crap, but you know what I mean.
Kerry,
In the past 2 ear surgeries, my S has fallen under the "scared, confused, crying" when he comes out of sedation. So I am expecting it, and won't be worried if he reacts that way this time. Mean/lazy mom speaking here
, I wish he would be the kid who goes home and wants to sleep all day instead.......
In 5 1/2 years, my kid has NEVER been the one who gets sick and spends the day sleeping. He spends it wide awake and grumpy.
S will also get to pick a stuffed animal after the surgery.
K
I am only up b/c I fell asleep when I put my son to bed at 9:45. I woke up again at 1 a.m. but I will go to bed by 2. Thanks for checking in!
BBJ
Just my experienece :
When my H moved out the first time for 40 days, I kept validating and suporting his decision to come home to give us a try. He did but was not really into it. 3 weeks later he said he couldn't try. I would say whatever descision he makes has to be his own and he has to really know what he is doing. Anything less -I think- would bring you to the same sitch very quickly.
He is a grown up man and you are not his mother.
Love &XXXX
Sleep well
Good luck with surgery
K
YAY! Thank you, K. That is my thought exactly, I am not going to "push" for him to come home.
I don't want him here b/c I want him here.
I don't want him here so he can avoid breaking our S's heart.
I don't want him here so people in the family/at work can continue to think he is a "good guy".
I don't want him here b/c he "owes" me for being such a good little wife.
And I even don't want him here b/c it is the "right" thing to do.
I want him here b/c he knows what a good thing he has and he does not want to lose it.
I avoided validating when he asked, "And you are certain this is the RIGHT decision?" because of what happened several times in the deepest part of his A, Dec-Feb. He would say, "I don't want to move", or "I don't want to be divorced" or "I don't want to hurt my kids", and the first time or two, I replied, "Then don't." But after that, if he would make and "I dont want to" comment, he would immediately look at me and in a nasty voice, say "Then don't, right? Isn't that what you are gong to say?"
So around Feb, I would reply back, "No, I won't say that. You need to do what you want to do." This time I didn't say anything at all.........
H is a very big boy and can make this decision on his own, you are right K.
Thanks for being here!
Wow am I tired. I fell asleep with S in his bed around 9:45 and woke up wide awake at 1:00 am. I got on the boards, took a load of laundry out of the washer, and washed a sink full of dishes. Tried to go back to bed at 2:10, but was still awake at 3.
At that time, my S came in my room. He was wide awake. Had a bad dream. Said he and I were in the living room and a big spider was on the floor. I tried to kill it with a stick and the stick kept breaking when I tried to hit the spider. So the spider crawled across the floor, up his leg and onto his chest. Then he woke up.
I know I am reading into this wayyyyyyyyyyyyy too much. But it instantly made me think of our M situation. I am trying to save my son from being hurt by us getting a divorce but my efforts haven't been entirely successful. So despite mom's best efforts, the "spider" of our D may still come and get my S......Okay again I know that may be a stretch. But it is true, I am running around trying different "sticks" (approaches) to keep the worst from happening but my S is still getting hurt.....
So needless to say I was then awake until 3:30. At that point my D began having a coughing fit in her bedroom. I think she has a mild case of croup. She coughed for 15-20 seconds at a time, every 90 seconds or so, until 4. Which is when I finally fell asleep. But had to get up at 5:30. Did I mention I am tired?
My mind is just going a mile a minute and my efforts to make it "sit still" haven't worked.
BBJ,
I'm sorry you had a rough date. It's very possible your son simply had the dream because he saw a spider on tv or in a book or in the yard. I'd stop torturing yourself on that one if you can.
As for your question to me, I think you can "conditionally validate" your husband's comments. For example, you can say that it would be a good decision to come home if he is willing to do this and that. That the only time he makes bad decisions are from this and that. Basically telling him that you'll let him back into your life IF he changes, but that IF he changes you believe the two of you and the family will be happy together.
I wager however, that he isn't looking for this conditional validation. He wants it to be easy and that he dosen't have to answer for the things he has done to hurt you. Remember, until recently he really hasn't had any consequences because you have taken him back and still loved him. He is still learning this new behaviour and this one isn't as simple for him. He is sort of like a toddler right now testing you to see what he can get away with. You know how to handle those children right BBJ?
Yep Woog, clear, stated expectations (work on marriage together, increase intimacy/affection/obviously no OWs, etc). Clear, stated consequences for not meeting expectations (hello separation or D). And then consistency with the follow-through.
My D hates it, my S hates it. I am sure my H will, too.
But, give an inch and they all take a mile!
Yep. Hang tough BBJ. I'm here if you need me.
My kids are at recess, I checked my phone. State Farm called earlier re. a claim we are trying to make for hail damage on our roof. The roof looks like crap from the damage and we want to fix it before we sell.
Anywho, H is the one who called to make the claim, gave them the dates of the storm, etc. So I wanted him to be the one to call back, so they don't get conflicting information (I have mentioned H doesn't always see the truth the same way as me and if I give differing details I don't want to be "responsible" for screwing up the claim.)
I just called him to give him the 800 number and claim #. Tried to get off the phone ASAP but he stopped me twice. First, to tell me he would be down tonight "right after work, as soon as I get stuff from Mom and Dad's (clothes)". I said, sounds great, see you then-- He stopped me again. Said, "S's kdg parent meeting is the 24th. FYI I have to fly to Boise on the 25th. I said, fine, do you have to miss the meeting? He said, no. I said, we are going back the night of the 24th b/c I have to work the next day. So will your trip cause a conflict? He said no.
I didn't see why he thought it was so important to tell me about the trip. He did say it meant he wouldn't get back until Saturday afternoon, so maybe he wanted me to know he wouldn't be down to see the kids? I just thought of something, I should have asked if I could go along on the trip so I could visit a guy friend I know in Idaho (OK Woog I know you are hours from Boise but HE doesn't know that!)
I don't know if it is good, bad, or neither that he is coming down "right away" (really that means 9 or 10, he never leaves work until 6) tonight. If he was turning me down and feeling guilty about it, I figured he would come up with an excuse to get here in the middle of the night, or not until Saturday (like when the cow was calving and he didn't come down). So I assume it means he has made a decision and is ready to give it to me, one way or another.....I way overthink this stuff.
I have seen Kalni and some others post songs on here. I heard this one in the car yesterday and it caught me by surprise. I don't know how new or old it is, I never heard it before.
Realistic or not, this sums up what I WANT my H to say to me. (I do not in ANY way believe it is what he WILL say though)
Whatever It Takes--Lifehouse
A strangled smile fell from your face
It kills me that I hurt you this way
The worst part is that I didn't even know
Now there's a million reasons for you to go
But if you can find a reason to stay
I'll do whatever it takes
To turn this around
I know what's at stake
I know that I've let you down
And if you give me a chance
Believe that I can change
I'll keep us together whatever it takes
She said "If we're gonna make this work
You gotta let me inside even though it hurts
Don't hide the broken parts that I need to see"
She said "Like it or not it's the way it's gotta be
You gotta love yourself if you can ever love me"
I'll do whatever it takes
To turn this around
I know what's at stake
I know that I've let you down
And if you give me a chance
And give me a break
I'll keep us together, I know you deserve much better
But remember the time I told you the way that I felt
That I'd be lost without you and never find myself
Let's hold onto each other above everything else
Start over, start over
I'll do whatever it takes
To turn this around
I know what's at stake
I know I've let you down
And if you give me a chance
and believe that I can change
I'll keep us together whatever it takes
BBJ,
can I use the song as well?
K
Come visit. I'll leave the light on.
BBJ, he is testing the waters with you. He wants everything go back to "normal" for him. I am also sure he misses you.
Very good song BBJ. Here is the video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iawro7IfoCMBTW. Here are a couple really great songs by "3 doors down" that I listen to a lot...
Here Without YouAll I Think About Is You
BBJ,
I really hope your H does whatever it takes to win you back!
By the way, what do you think he would say?
Sure, use the song. I think it is so appropriate to what I am feeling....
Thanks Woog! I just got the "Motel 6" guy's voice in my head with the "leave the light on" comment. It is an old commercial...
Thanks Kerry. You are the technology buff of this group, I appreciate it!
Kerry,
I just love the way you "link" us to whatever we bring up...
Are you googling everything we say?
K
John,
What do I think he will say tonight?
Probably the usual, I just don't know how to make this right, etc. etc.
What would he need to say for me to trust he wants to work on us? I have been thinking about that all week........I will let you know.
(((((BobbiJo)))))
It strikes me that he is playing the old decide by doing nothing game. Though he also seems to be making tiny, tiny, steps.
Watch and listen, that's what I always say! And stay quiet, generally!
Jeff,
That is what will irritate me the most. If tonight is just more of the same, I don't know, blah blah blah
Because then I have to be the one to make the final call. Which sucks b/c it is the call I NEVER wanted to make. And I could have made it 5 months ago if it was going to be "over", anyway.
Gotta go to my ankle rehab. Wish me luck tonight....
Just like it happened with me, and it doesn't end then either...
Good Luck!!
K
Thanks Kerry. You are the technology buff of this group, I appreciate it!
I hope I dont come off as the geeky nerd. Posting links is really not much technology. Writing fax drivers which run in kernel mode at a raised interrupt request level that cant access pageable memory - well that is geeky to the max. They call me the FaxGod in my industry. It also is about as exciting as watching paint dry. I guess the only satisfaction I have is in knowing that my code is sending billions of bytes continuously all over the world.
BBJ,
Let me try to give you some advice (for what it is worth) for tonight. If you want your H in your life, do not under any circumstance have a negative attitude. Be as happy as you can be....yes it is very difficult but the last thing you want to do is alienate him to the point where he thinks that there is no hope. i remember the last time I went out for supper with my W. I was a little on edge and quite frankly a tad pissed at her. i am not saying we have no right to be pissed, i am just saying to try to have a good time. i remember coming out of the supper and saying to myself, now what the hell id I accomplish by being so negative. Like I said, if you want a shot at an R with your H, you have to stay pleasant.
Hope you have a nice evening....lower the expectations and TRY to have a good time. You deserve it.
i don't have any specific expectations to lower. I DO expect a decision, and if that is considered too much expectation, so be it. Actually, I guess I have the expectation that he will waffle or just come out and say he is done trying (not that I feel like he ever really tried). Anything else would be a pleasant surprise.
I will not be a b!tch either way, but "pleasant" may be a bit much for me if he chooses to walk away from our family for good. "Neutral" would be a good reaction from me, not angry, not whiny, but not pleased, either. I cannot act pleased about something that goes against everything I believe in. I am sure I will say something along the lines of "I am sorry you feel that is the best choice for you. Let's prepare for telling S tomorrow". I can cry about it later.....once he is gone.
Actually H called about 20 minutes ago. He said he had the trailer hooked up to the truck (at his parents') and was leaving very soon. So he should be down here around 10:30 or 11. I am assuming 11:30 so I don't get antsy.
S told H he wants to go to his favorite restaurant tomorrow night, "T Rex". It is modeled after the Rainforest Cafe inside, but is dinosaur themed. Huge 2 story animatronic dinosaurs, a simulated volcano eruption every 30 minutes, etc. I told him last week to think of things he wanted to do before we moved that he couldn't do in Iowa. I am fine with going but it will sure be weird if we tell S in the morning and then all go out for supper. Actually, I suppose it would cement for S that we will always be a family...
I am putting the cart before the horse since I haven't even "talked" to H yet. I am going to wait and see if he brings it up when he gets here. If he has said nothing by the time he gets ready to go to bed, then I will ask him what his thoughts are.
If I get a chance I will post an update tonight or tomorrow.....
I dont know if you want to tell S just yet. Also, let your H initiate any talking about your situation. Dont bring it up, especially if he appears tired.
If ever I am in Kansas City, I am going to make it a point to go to this restaurant! Can I assume that the food is expensive?
Thinking of you ((((((((((BBJ)))))))))! Do keep your expectations low, I didn't try hard enough to do that and now my heart is breaking again. My H too said that he is done trying. I want to ask for a list of things he did to try. He mentioned two to me that are ridiculous. He gave me so many silly excuses the other night so be prepared for those. The good news is the sun is shining here and it is supposed to be a beautiful weekeend.