Thank each and every one of you for your posts that culminated in locking my last thread. Also, thank those of you who wanted to post but couldn't because the thread was already locked. Every one of you have made me feel so good after reading your support, I actually had to fight off the tears (and am still doing so).
I appreciate all of you so much -- you have truly been here for me of late and have made me feel so loved and special I can't even describe it. You are all extremely wonderful people, and I am in debt to you for both your recent and long standing support.
Thank You!
I really am down in the dumps, and didn't really have enough time to deal with the let down before going to dance. However, dancing kept my mind 100% occupied for the next 4 hours. Now, I'm back to the reality of this thing, and am pretty sick to my stomach. I know I should've been more prepared for the rejection than I was. Sadly, I lead myself to believe that my W was actually going to either think about it without giving me an answer tonight, or she was going to say OK. I was in denial of what I was/am truly up against. She does not love me. Period. This is something I must now accept. I don't think there ever were any seeds of doubt planted. I think I fooled myself into believing it, and paid the price for allowing myself to do so.
Trust me, I do know that I will be "better than okay," and that time will heal the wound that has been reopened. It's just so damn hard right at this moment, and I simply need to grieve and move on.
It is W's loss, and I really do know that. It is my loss too, but she really doesn't know (or believe) what I've come to understand and change about myself. She has not worked on herself at all, and though I miss her and love her deeply, I'm not so sure I would be happy in the long run being with her in this state. If she were to come back to me, she would be guaranteed to get a man that is conscious of her needs and willing to do his upmost to meet those needs and keep her love tank full on a consistent basis. However, I'm guessing that I wouldn't receive the same in return (at least any time soon), and I don't know if I could ever actually
be happy with her again.
We'll see what the coming months and even years will bring. I know that I previously said that my DB line in the sand is drawn at the point where W actually remarries. I do want the line to be there still, but I'm really going to focus on moving on myself now. If the chance emerges again someday, great. If not, I'll be okay because I will have completely detached and moved on. I am going to completely detach now. I'm will keep up my changes in communication with her simply because it is the right thing to do, but I will not focus on trying to win her back anymore. I will not make any efforts to manipulate her into wanting me back. I will just be me and live the life that I want to live without concern to how she feels about it (unless it has something to do with the kids). I'm done trying to save my M or R now. I'm cutting my losses here and saving myself from anymore pain.
I'll post some more about the talk tomorrow sometime, but am going to go to bed now. I'm sorry that I haven't followed through with staying on top of all of your posts. As I end my chapter on this DBing adventure, I will surely find more time to focus on all of yours. I have found too much support and help on these boards to walk away now. I will continue to be here because it gives me strength and helps me to be who I want to be. I love you all, and promise that once I get my sh!t together and wrap up my M and D, I'll once again begin reciprocating all of the support you have provided for me.
Thanks again everyone! My new dance is about to begin -- now I just need to come up with a name for it...
GD
GD
I did not get to say how I grieve for you. I know this can happen to any one of us, so to hear how it went down affects us all. Having said that, you really sound like you will be OK. Your very young (compared to me!) and a huge, wonderful life ahead of you. Make it happen every day. Dont get to 44 and wonder why you wasted so many years. Get to my age and look back (that is 16 yrs of living bud) and give it your best shot.
Be a great dad. YOu will find someone who appreciates you. Having said that too, you never know what might happen w/ your W, but lets just put that thought on hold...
Good luck
C
GD .... hang in there bud. You sound like even though things are not exactly the way you want them to be. You got a pretty good attitude.
G
N, you have a Plan (still). You are STILL in control of your life. I really liked Donna's dance analogy (on your locked thread). You don't NEED a dance partner; you don't need this particular dance partner. In fact, the way things stand, I think W would be much like Dena who, at closer look, didn't really measure up to your talents.
Believe. Things happen for a reason.
This is surely a bigger picture here.
Thinking of you still,
j
((((GD))))
Nomo
PS - I actually thought Dena was pretty cute, and measured up rather nicely
, even if she was (or maybe because she was) about 18!
Hey, GD, Nomo brings up an excellent point. You're still young enought to date a 19 or 20 year old! For Nomo or I, it would, sigh, just look pathetic
In all seriousness, you sound in a really good place right now. There was nothing wrong for getting your hopes up. Hope and faith are what you were going on. Without that, life's not really worth living. Plus, there is still a chance that she could change her mind.
I am so sorry that you didn't get the results you wanted, but you ARE a better person today than you were 6 months ago.
It will get better,
BD
gd,
hey man, i know how you feel and understand your statements. but the fact of the matter is your changes have been amazing and you have grown so much. you stated above what you need, so you know what you want, now ask yourself for those wants and go get it. life will move on and somebody will be more than happy to have a guy like you.
keep up the dancing, it gets you out and meeting other singles. enjoy your life and have fun with the kids. i'm so sorry it didn't go the way you wanted or expected but db'ing worked for you. your a great person with a great outlook and perspective. i'm proud of ya.
atlas
Good morning, GD! I am glad you checked in.
Your new dance will be great, whatever it is.
You're still young enought to date a 19 or 20 year old! For Nomo or I, it would, sigh, just look pathetic
That is a risk I am willing to take!
Last night, after reading about the "talk", I put myself in your W's place to see how it might look.
This is going to sound shallow; One of the "thoughts" I had as your W, is that if I don't get a D now, then I'm back to being in limbo w/ parts of my life, especially financially.
She knows that the offer of sharing the proceeds from the sale of the house is a generous one. If you stop things now, she might not be in that position again.
Maybe she wants to go ahead with it, get in a better position, & then consider a new R with you.
Just a thought, & one that might not make a difference to how you feel today. Thought I'd throw it out there anyway.
Love & Luck,
Sunny
((((GD))))
I had gotten behind on your sitch and hadn't read the news about the talk. I'm really sorry for the rejection, but I know that you'll pick yourself up very soon.
Thanks Nikki -- I'm working on it!
Pick yourself up and dust yourself off. You know you can, we all know you can and will. Take as long as you need though. My rejection came Sunday, I was on the bottom of the ocean until C last night. Thought I'd be swimming in sadnees for at least week, maybe longer. My parents are even coming down this weekend b/c they were worried about me. Now, I don;t think it is neccessary, but will be an opportunity to reconnect with them. Of course, I'm just waiting fro the next flood of emotions to overtake me. Wondering if I've bottled things again? Take your time GD, you have come so far. Look at yourself in the mirror and smile. You got it going on!
((((GD)))) I'm sorry your talk did not go as you had wished....stay strong and true to yourself. Stay strong for your kids!
Work like you don't need the money, dance like nobody is watching, love like you've never been hurt! I liked this quote cause it talked about dancing...my dancing man!!
take care of you!
Christa
GD,
Feel your pain for the moment, grieve for the R that is now dead...this all is part of life and provides the contrast that makes the happy, passionate moments all the more so. (A little Bhuddist philosophy).
Christa,
Who is this quote from? I absolutely love it and feel like spray painting it on the front of my house for the world to see!
SD
SD, Target sells it. Did you not see it hanging in my l/r?
Also, here's one from a song I downloaded a while ago (Lindsey Lohan of all people):
Live. . . like it's the last moon rising.
Scream. . . just like no one's there.
Lose . . . all of my defenses.
Hold you, touch you, love you like it's
the very last moment in time.
Thanks dlt1, christa, and SD.
I went and met with my atty today, tweeked the mediation stuff a little (which I think W will be fine with), and decided that I will likely be able to sign off on it Monday, as well as the D. I'm actually looking forward to getting it out of the way now too, since I had the last stand talk with W. I will feel okay about moving on after that, knowing that I did everything I could to save the M. Though I know the feelings aren't feelings that I want or have forever, I certainly do feel a bit angry and spiteful toward W and her BF. I'm hurt, and this is certainly where the anger is coming from. I'm angry that she is still so willing to walk away from this M and the family we created together, without truly doing everything
she can do to save it. The selfishness of it all really bothers me. I don't want to be angry, but I cannot help it right now. I won't act on it, of course, and I will continue to be consistent with my changes because it is what is best for me. They are sticking more and more, and with time they will be permanent.
BTW (mostly speaking to you, Nomo), I got my tattoo yesterday (Tuesday). For those of you who are unaware, it is my first one. It is a pisces art piece that I found on the internet when looking for ideas. I figured that I will always be a pisces, so this tattoo should be something that I will be content with for the rest of my life. Here's the link to the website where it is displayed
link I got it on my right shoulder blade on my back. It wasn't quite as bad as I thought it would be, so that was a bonus (it had its moments though!).
Your turn, Nomo!
GD
p.s. I don't think SD could've seen that quote in your l/r Still because he never came over (or did he...?
).
Hey, what is your Bday? I am a pisces too! No way, no how am I getting a tat.
CVA -- the Ides of March (March 15th). When's yours? You being a pisces would've made it all the more cool if you'd have been in Orlando. Me, Kat, Still, and Donna_Found are all pisces too! Poor Nomo -- he's an Aries
(jk Nomo).
Dear Hopeless Romantic (which is a GREAT thing):
I am smiling ear to ear bout your tat! The rest of your post reflects how strong and healthy you are. The 28 year old inspiration.
Nomo
OK, I almost didn't post because of the Lindsay Lohan comment. Eesh. Though, as I type that I recall listening to one of those 'genre' of singers with my daughter and thinking that the lyrics weren't have bad. If you're aware of your hypocracy, are you still a hypocrit?
Anyway, GD, I totally sympathize with your anger. I feel it towards my W right now. We are 9 hours away from mediation to begin the legal ending of our marriage and I know that she hasn't done everything in her power to save the marriage. She's even said so. She's just done. Walking away. Maybe I can bring her back. Don't know. Going to do the whole friend and be there for her thing because I want to and it's the right thing to do, but, really, if she's a person who can walk away from this without giving it 100% committment or effort to see if it could be saved, I'm better off without her. Because that's not the person I thought I had married.
BD
GD,
You DID do all you could do and continuing w/ your changes is still doing all that you can do, even if it is just for you and your kids now. Your angry feelings right now are completely understandable and the great thing is that you know how to handle and work through these feelings now.
WTG on that tattoo! I am glad you are happy w/ it.
CVA a pisces too! Another reason you should have come to Orlando.
Going to do the whole friend and be there for her thing because I want to and it's the right thing to do, but, really, if she's a person who can walk away from this without giving it 100% committment or effort to see if it could be saved, I'm better off without her. Because that's not the person I thought I had married.
Good point, Heim. There's still time for her to change her mind though. I feel the same way as you though in this regard. I'm not sure if my W would admit what your W admitted, but I'm sure she realizes she gave up prematurely too. Good luck with mediation. Be strong, friendly, thoughtful, etc, and above all take your time thinking things through with regard to what W says she wants. Make sure you don't just give give give if it isn't reasonable. If you have a disagreement, be cool, calm, and collected about how you address it. And just like in boxing: protect yourself at all times!
.
GD
CVA,
Why is there no way that you will get a tat? Don't you want to join the, "Hey Ws/Hs, can't you see by our tats that we're cool" Club?
Thanks for the support Kat -- much appreciated right now!
GD
Checked out the tattoo on the link & love it GD!
You are one awesome man.
I'm feeling very sorry I didn't make the Orlando bash
Saw the pictures though, & you are quite the handsome dude
Add the new tat & you're in there....
Sunny
Had to cut the post short, as Nomo is on the line awaiting his coaching session
Thanks, GD. Mediation should be fairly straightforward, the biggest hurdle is how we're going to agree on who can move where/when because we want joint custody. Other than that 50/50 split of assets after we buy some basic furniture (primarily a bed) for me. We'll also go joint on bday parties, kids expenses (clothes, school, etc.). Because neither one of us wants to hurt the other, I don't feel the need to protect myself. I count myself lucky on that. Also gives me hope for the coming months. That and she's not considering dating (yippee!).
I stand by my original contention. Anything with needles = bad.
BD
I stand by my original contention. Anything with needles = bad.
Oh, come on Heim. Euthanasia doesn't sound to bad for me right now. JUST KIDDING!!!! (Horrible joke) Sorry, but I just couldn't resist!
I love my life -- really!
GD
I love you, sunny! You are way too sweet (are you sure there's no icing on that cupcake?)!
I saw some pics of you too -- H is messing up BAD if you ask me! Maybe if we use a real 2x4 we can get him to see what he's giving up.
Had to cut the post short, as Nomo is on the line awaiting his coaching session
Ah, man -- Nomo gets all of the girls!
Hi All, I'm in the same boat of feeling anger/resentment that W is done, will not consider waiting and working. I don;t understand how she can just walk like that. (actually, I understand this is how she has reacted everytime she has faced an opportunity to give herself completely to another). But, now that she knows that, why not figure it all out before tossing everything away??? I am finding my anger is less and less though, even after only a few days. You know you'll get there too. We're ging to attempt to divvy things on our own (no kids, so not nearly as difficult). Just like you said, staying positive and helpful, but I will not walk away with the less than my fair part of what we built together.
GD,
A needle jabbing into your skin over and over and over; bad. Still, that is a pretty cool tat.
Full sleeve next, eh?
BD
Nice! Love the tat. Its very original. Hope you are enjoying it.
Okay, I'm trying to detach completely, but just had a little relapse and wanted to say this here since I just posted it regarding something on waw1978's thread. The lack of control over my M is really getting to me right now:
My changes have not changed my W's mind, and she still wants to proceed with the D. I'm torn between how much it has to do with her new BF, and how much it has to do with the fact that she just plain doesn't love me anymore (BF or not). I also wonder if she will ever feel love for me again, given the constistent and permanent changes in me and my R with her. It's been 9 months, and it honestly does scare me that she will never love me again no matter what I do. Can a person who spent a decade with you, experienced so much (both good and bad) with you, decided to have children with you, etc, really just walk away and never love you again? Can the damage I've done really be that severe and cause such permanent lack of love?
This is crazy! I wish she could see, would see, how much she means to me and how much good this experience has done for me and therefore could do for our R/M. If she would just give us another chance. I wonder if she really does not love me anymore, or if it more the fear of being hurt again, of us getting into the same rut again, etc, that keeps her holding strong in her decision to D. I WISH I COULD JUST KNOW WHAT SHE IS FEELING AND THINKING! She has never really opened up to me about this at all since the bomb, and not having this knowledge really doesn't allow me to have the kind of closure I feel I need to completely move on. I just need to know, but don't think I can ask her again -- I've done it before and to no avail.
Bottom line, this crap sucks. Okay, I feel better already (but I still mean everything I just said).
GD
I hear you bro. BF is enabling her to not really hurt (same sitch for my W). She'll get there one day, but who knows when that will be and where you will be. I like to think that even if we do D, and she figures things out 6,8,10 months later and wants to revisit us, that I will be willing. BUt I have no idea where I will be and if I wil lhave found someone. I'm scared taht i'll always compare women to her. For that, I feel resentment towards W. We are allowed to feel this way about W and M. What is happening hurts, when we hirt we feel all sorts of things including anger. You need to feel that, don;t let it consume you, but let yourself feel these things. Of course, you know this. You're doing fine. Keep venting anytime!
dlt1,
Good luck on the splitting of property and assets together. Sounds like you're on pretty good terms if you're able to do this without a mediator. I hope everything goes smoothly for you if/when the time comes.
Heim,
Full sleeves, both arms! Maybe even some pants...
waw,
Thanks for the feedback on the tat -- I'm enjoying it and am still happy I got it (thank God!). It is a little irritating right now comfort-wise, but other than that not bad. What to get next and where... I'm actually getting the upper part of my ear pierced soon, so I guess that is my next venture.
GD
GD,
If you want to nail the coffin shut, start up another R talk!!! Otherwise, zip it and let your actions speak for you! Show her (through your R with your kids) what an open and loving (and changed) person you are. Some day soon, maybe not today and maybe not tomorrow, but soon and for the rest of her life...she will recognize this and want you back. Only question, will you still be available?
I doubt it, but still a chance.
SD
PS - for you youngsters, that was H Bogart in Casablanca!
GD,
Try not to take it personally. I do think it is being in love with OM that blinds her to you right now. Most of us are at least serially monogamous, and as long as there is one love, all others are crowded out. This doesn't mean that she can never love you again. Only that she loves him now.
I have to agree Sara. I think that your W's feelings for OM are clouding her judgement and its a distraction from the hurts she felt during the M. One good thing you have on your side is that you have made great strides in personal growth. You know what your faults are and you have worked your rear off making changes that are important to you. W will continue to see this new & improved GD and will not be able to ignore how you have grown and the man you have become. The seeds are there, just let them grow.
The statistics say that most rebound relationships do not last. Chances of this OM being around long term are slim. When this rebounder relationship ends she is going to be faced with all the disappoints of that R plus having to deal with the fall out of the M ending as well since it sounds like the OM is a band-aid of sorts for her hurts.
GD,
I agree on the OM thing. But remember that EVERYONE has faults and eventually W will be faced with a whole new set of annoyances. Hopefully yours will pale in comparison to the belching, farting, sloppy, rude, crude pig he will become once they get "comfortable". Right?
This kind of thinking is what keeps me sane at least.
Your feelings are totally normal and word for word could have been taken straight from my mind!
That's awesome on the tat! I have actually been thinking of getting another one (I have 2) but can't think of anything "grand" that I won't regret. The pisces sign is a great idea..I am an aquarius, I'll have to look into that. H isn't a big fan of tattoos so it is kind of something I can do out of spite that actually doesn't hurt him at all and I will still enjoy it.
Anyway, hang in there. I think it is so great that you all have actually gotten together and hung out. Maybe I will have to join this "gang" sometime, you all sound like alot of fun!
Hey GD,
I just want to say that you deserve to find someone that will love you and appreciate you for the great person you have become. I truly hope that you will move on in your life. I know that is easy for me to sit here and type those words, but you have said it all yourself. I hope you can get through the grieving soon and get on with living. I believe it is actually harder in some ways than when the S dies. B/c in death, well everything is different and you know there is never any more chances and you are FORCED to move ahead. In D, there is always the chance of seeing that person that was once yours, having to talk to them about family or business,etc. It is hell. Anyway, best wishes for you. You know you have lots of support here. You have been a great supporter of me.
And speaking of me....since you had asked on another person's post, I am doing okay. WEll, better than okay, actually. I went over to "piecing" forum since my thread locked up. My H and I are back to where "normal" was before I stated all the internet crapp. We are being nice and respectful to each other. We kiss good-bye when I go off to work in the mornings and kiss good-night. Still no touchy-touchy stuff, but it will come in time. H agreed never to bring up OM again...and he hasn't. I think I am gaining his trust back quickly b/c he leaves me alone at the computer for hours at a time without coming in to "check" me out. He seems more relaxed and calmed down. He is acting more like his old self and so am I. I have gotten more involved in church again. I am trying to get my house cleaned and organized again, b/c I had let it get into bad shape spending all my free time on the computer. I got quite a bit accomplished today and I feel good about that. So many times, due to my Fibromyalgia, I am not able to do anything after I get in from work. So, the housework pills up.
With my H and I....it takes time to just let things be "normal". I don't know if you understand what I mean by that. I don't know if our age has something to do with it or if it is just us...but it is kind of like...we have to let this "back to normal" stage run its course for a while before we are ready to make the next step. I included my H.....maybe it is just me, I don't really know. He seems to be happy that we are just back to where we were before all hell broke loose.
I have been a little concerned about my kids and how they may feel toward me. They don't appear to be angry or upset with me. However, I still feel a little uncomforatable around my D, since she discovered the IM between me an OM. We try to act normal and move on. She and I have talked and she said she knew I was just "human" and she doesn't hold it against me. She know her dad did nothing to help toward the R for a long time. Still and all....I wonder if she isn't very disappointed in me. I know it had to be a shock!
From time to time, I am a little tempted to contact the OM. I won't....but still the temptation comes occasionaly. I have had to "grieve" OM, which I know sounds disgusting to LBS....it does me. However, that is the way it is. At first, I would cry every night....b/c I felt lonely and empty and had needs that weren't being met. I couldn't go to H, b/c I felt like he was a brother to me. So, I had to work it out alone. It is getting better though. I have my moments.
All in all, I feel blessed that my life has returned to almost normal again in such a short time....compared to most folks on this board. I owe it to you friends who came to my rescue in those first weeks when I was reaching out for help...even though at the time, I still wasn't ready to let go of the OM. That part was hard....but I did it. Everytime I am tempted and wonder what things may have been (you know...a life with OM), I just remember all that I went through and I don't want that again! Then, I tell myself to look ahead and not backward. It is unbelievable how blind I was!
One thing that has been good for me to get through the times that the temptation comes....is to get on here and read other posts and if there is anything I can offer to others, I try to help out. That has been good therapy for me.
Well, let me hear from you GD. Again, I send my prayers and best wishes for you.
Sandi2
CD
SD gave you good advice a few posts back. There is little you can do with OM in the picture that will give you any instant results. Stay strong .
Dave
GD--
Just wanted to let you know that I was thinking of you. Unfortunately, my H is following in your W's footsteps as far as our sitchs go, but I hope I can also follow in yours and the tremendous growth that you have made. I am looking into lindy-lessons this week, and bellydancing is coming up again soon.
I don't understand how these once loving people can turn so hard the other way...
Please keep dancing...
Do you think you might make an Oct meetup in CT, an hour from NYC?
Thanks Dave -- you're right about that. The door will still be open, but the focus is much less on her now, if at all (at least that is my current goal). I will try not to be conscious of what would spark her interest, curiosity, etc, when she is to come get the kids (or vice versa). I'm just going to be the best dad and best person I can be for me, and try not to worry whether or not W notices. No more monitoring, taking stock, etc. I must detach as much as possible in order to move on. Hopefully I will still be willing or in a position to work things out with W if she ever changes her mind. At this point, I'm seriously doubting she ever will, OM or not. I will definitely not drop my hard-earned changes, but just won't worry about how/if they effect change and/or change of heart in W.
Donna,
I'd like to make the trek to CT in Oct, but I have a 5 day Jazz Festival in Sun Valley, ID from Oct 17-21 to attend (and Lindy Hop dance, of course). Maybe in the spring (foilage is pretty then too, right?)...
Awesome on the Lindy lessons (and bellydancing)! I've got a Lindy friend who has also taken belldancing lessons, and OH MY GOSH!
GD
GD
Oh, and thanks Sandi! I appreciate the kind words, and I'm really glad to see you getting to a better place in your R with H. It is sounding very positive -- don't give up!
GD
Hey GD,
I haven't said much to you if anything since you first came here under your old name. What a change!! Good Job, stick with it.
Never doubt though, have faith and hope, keep yourself busy with the life you control and let the rest... you'll be suprised!
Scary aint it? Kinda fun though in a twisted way.
I may be in your area (drag racing at the Halloween Classic) around the time of the Jazz fest in Oct. If so maybe some Jazz would be therapeautic!
good thoughts...smiles abound
cire
The door will still be open, but the focus is much less on her now, if at all (at least that is my current goal). ... No more monitoring, taking stock, etc. I must detach as much as possible in order to move on.
GD,
Exactly! You are in a great position, in many ways. You are young and enlightened. Every day for the rest of your life, you will appreciate what you have. Most of us don't get their until mid-life! Carpe diem!
SD
Cire,
Let me know if you'll be in the area and we can definitely make plans to meet up. Hope things get better for you in the meantime.
SD,
Thanks for the perspective and PMA boost -- you've been really good for me in that dept lately!
Well, off to dinner with a friend and then to Lindy dance night. Can't wait to "cut a rug" for all of you "hip" people out there!
Hasta lasagna!
GD
GD,
Just checkin' in on you! How the rug is all thrashed up from last night. I'm practicing my maringue right now since all my neighbors are latino/as!
hasta luego mi amigo!
SD
You are young and enlightened
What SD says is true GD, not many men get to the place you are at such an early age.
Some woman, if not your W, is going to reap the benefits of the new you. You're some kinda powerful quick study & it's been fun to watch unfold.
Scary aint it? Kinda fun though in a twisted way.
Cire has his own way of fun ;-)
Sunny
((GD))
Wanted to echo what was said earlier - you really are a whole new man than the one who started posting here! And in record time, too. Hope you're really feeling it deep down, by this point (I went/go through a lot of "fake it til you make it" days).
Thanks Sunny and Nikki!
Some woman, if not your W, is going to reap the benefits of the new you. You're some kinda powerful quick study & it's been fun to watch unfold.
Making me blush as usual, sunny! Thanks for the PMA boost!
you really are a whole new man than the one who started posting here! And in record time, too. Hope you're really feeling it deep down, by this point (I went/go through a lot of "fake it til you make it" days).
Thank you for the PMA boost too, Nikki! I am feeling the changes deep down, and they are sticking more and more (becoming more natural). I know that it is necessary, which obviously makes it that much easier to accomplish. It's hard to work on changes when you doubt their impact and necessity in your life.
I'm obviously disappointed in my W's choice to follow through with the D (as well as my own choices that lead her to feel the need to do this), but I'm adjusting to the reality relatively well now. I've talked to her a few times lately, with her being short with me at times. I continue activating my duck's back when this happens, but I've also found that I'm not so "bubbley" with her anymore. I think this is a good thing, as long as I continue with being the better man I know I can and should be. I sign off on the D tomorrow (she signed off today). She has gotten really impatient with the whole process lately, since some things got delayed (mainly due to her atty). When she acted this way toward me a few days ago, I simply asked, "Is there a reason why you need it done as soon as possible?" She immediately chilled a little and said "No, I'm just mad at my atty."
I think she just needs/wants some closer with this D so she feels more comfortable in her new(?) R. Sounds like it's going strong, but I've heard that she tries to keep the finances as separate as possible (tries to avoid asking him for help).
That's all I've got, as I have a hard time analyzing my R with W now that I know it's over. I just don't really care anymore, which certainly helps me in the detaching dept!
GD
GD ,
at least now you can move on with your life and this experience will be of great value to you going forward.
And as the others have said , you are still young and way ahead of where i was at your age thats for sure.
Dave
I'm thinkin of you GD....stay strong and true to yourself!! You have so much to offer!! Take care of yourself!! Christa
That's right, GD. If you were a chick, I'd go out with you.
BD
{{{{{GD}}}}}
I just wanted to let you know that I was thinking about you, and telling friends what an amazing person you are. I know that you are feeling a loss in your life, but you sound so good and strong; I am sure that you got so much more out of this whole life thing than your W can ever hope to accomplish right now.
I am also hearing the word "closure" often. I think my H is in the same mental place as your W, and won't be detered at all. It really is sad, and I know that they will just have to live it to feel it.
Please let me know if you end up doing the Lindy anywhere in the tri-state area around NYC...I've been cuttin' the rug around home for practice!
GD,
I know it sounds strange, but I envy you. My sitch is so in limbo since my W won't leave, won't pursue a job, and won't work on the M either or even on her own issues. I know she is just trying to wear me down, but she ought to know my now that this will not be an easy task.
Just remember me when you are feeling a bit down!
SD
Hi, GD!
I know your sitch w/ W maybe isn't where you would like it to be right now, but, as so many others have said, you are doing the absolute best you can with it by focusing on you and your hard-earned changes.
You are an inspiration to many!
And I think you and Heimlich would make cute dancing partners.
Oh boy. Cute dance partners?....(((Kat!!!)))
Thanks everyone! You guys are awesome with all of your support!
Dave,
at least now you can move on with your life and this experience will be of great value to you going forward.
This is absolutely true -- I'm getting closure myself, and I am young enough that I can really benefit from this experience in a new relationship. A blessing in disguise, I guess!
Thanks for being such a great source of advice and support -- you've been an awesome DBing asset for me!
christa,
Thanks for the words of support -- always greatly appreciated! How are things with your H? Last I checked, you were on a positive path to reconciliation. Is this still the case?
Heim,
That's right, GD. If you were a chick, I'd go out with you.
Hmmmm. Thanks, I think...
You've been a great support for many people on these boards, Heim. Your wit is unparalleled (except maybe for Nomo!). It has been great getting to know you and having you here as a friend. Keep up the constant reflection, monitoring, and all that jazz! You're doing great, buddy!
Donna,
I just wanted to let you know that I was thinking about you, and telling friends what an amazing person you are.
Awe, come on now!
If I have been great, it is because I've stood on the shoulders of DBing giants! (tweeked Thoreau quote)
Seriously though, thanks for being so kind and supportive. You've kept my PMA going strong! BTW, any of those friends of yours hot and single...
Please let me know if you end up doing the Lindy anywhere in the tri-state area around NYC...I've been cuttin' the rug around home for practice!
I definitely will! I've never been anywhere in New England aside from JFK airport, so if I get the opportunity to go I'll definitely let you know. Have you found any Lindy lessons in your area? Hope so, and if not, Charleston not a bad second choice (and integrates well with Lindy Hop!).
SD,
I know it sounds strange, but I envy you.
You're right -- that does sound strange!
You are an awesome person, SD. You're very clever, knowledgeable, apparently quite handsome (according to Still's friend!), educated, etc. You're going to be just fine no matter what happens with your M. And, to add meringue (sp?) to the list makes you even more of a catch for those hot Florida women. The envy can work both ways, I guess!
I've been keeping up with your sitch, too -- interesting new developments via discovery of W's computer adventures. You're handling things very well despite these and other recent discoveries. Know your boundaries and your goals. You'll come out of this better than ever, and hopefully W eventually will too!
Kat,
Thanks for continuing to be here for me. It has been great to get to know you and to have you as a friend. I like what I've seen from you lately in your own sitch -- keep us posted on everything!
And I think you and Heimlich would make cute dancing partners.
Okay, but he's going to have to be the follow (hear me Heim -- I know you're into me, but we've got to keep this a "friends only" R). Heim's got to learn Lindy, though -- I'm not doing any fox trot or other formal ballroom dancing!
CVA,
Didn't you know Kat was kind of crazy?!
Okay, everyone. Just want to tell you all that I'm thinking about moving over to the "Divorced, But Not Done" forum real soon. I'm not quite done yet, but am trying to detach as much as possible and focus on me and the kids, while still leaving the door cracked open. We'll see if I can get some great advice on how to do this from people over there.
It has been a pleasure growing with you all (and others who weren't addressed in this post). I will continue checking in with you all, so don't start getting teary-eyed on me now (you know you were!)!
Enjoy the rest of the weekend!
GD
Okay, I DEFINITELY have something to journal about now!
My good friend whose fiance is good friends w/ my W came over today. I had mentioned that my W was being kind of short and rude to me lately because she is getting impatient with the D process. He then said that lately she's losing it -- whenever he sees her all she does is complain about how life isn't fair. He said at first it was just about being broke all of the time, and how she's mad at me because I haven't put the house up for sale yet (so she "and her BF" can get "their" half of the money to buy "their" own place). However, over the last few weeks he said she's been complaining more and more about the OM (I guess they've been having problems for about a month now -- ironically since about the time she moved in with him!
. Apparently he never touches her anymore and always comes home and either goes in his room and watches Sportscenter or goes right to bed. Also, it sounds like she always has to cook and pick up after both OUR kids and OM's kids because he doesn't ever do any of it (which makes me kind of chuckle because I used to have to do ALL of this in our marriage). On top of this, another mutual friend has told my friend that every time she has gone over to W and OM's place during the last month, all she sees them do is fight.
Now, this doesn't mean she will or wants to come back to me. In fact, it is my understanding that she still dislikes me a great deal and can't even stand the sound of my voice. However, as wrong as it might be, I'm actually pleased to see her being so miserable of late with OM. I'm so glad that he isn't the White Knight she originally made him out to be, and I honestly can't wait to see their R plunk into the toilet! And, if she DOES decide she wants to try to work things out with me (which, at least at this point, is HIGHLY unlikely), I think I'm perfectly content with telling her I'm not ready to do that at this point. She is still blaming me and the world -- basically everyone but herself -- for her unhappiness, and until she can look inward and begin making changes in herself, I don't want an R/M with this woman. Apparently all she ever does is get angry, bitch, and complain about her life. My friend said that he actually had to give her some money not too long ago to help her out.
It sounds like she has also began to lose her relationship with her boss at work. A few months ago, she was told that as long as she kept up the good work she was going to go corporate and get out of the store. However, she apparently slacked off for the next 3-4 weeks and someone else got the job. Apparently she was being evaluated and when she quit coming in to work for days at a time and/or coming in late everyday, she shot herself in the foot. So after this, she was told she might get a job as a Store Director (i.e. run her own store). This, too, was instead given to someone else. The word now is that she might even lose her job if she keeps it up.
Boy, life sure is tough!
She's going to have to hit rock bottom before she takes any responsibility for getting there, and even then I don't know if she can/will -- she's awfully stubborn!
Something else that recently happened which now has me reconsidering my mediation agreement to give her half of the sale of the house (I still haven't signed it) has been her attitude toward me. She's been increasingly impatient and rude with me because of the slower than expected D process. Yesterday, I was getting ready to sign off on the D, read something in the D decree that I didn't notice before -- that I was to have the house up for sale no later than November 1st. Now, a few weeks ago I talked to W and said that because the market is down I didn't want to put the house up for sale and end up losing money on it (since we just bought it last year). She acted like she understood this, and didn't argue with me about it. However, when I called her yesterday and left a VM telling her that I didn't want a time limit set on when the house was to be up for sale, and to call me to discuss it, she never called me back. That was yesterday at 1:00 and I still haven't heard from her. I'm now thinking more and more that I no longer want to give her the 50% of the house. Actually, I'm thinking about doing one of the following:
1) Only give her 25% of the house sale (still about $125,000), or
2) Offer to buy a house for her and the kids that is UNDER MY NAME, and just act like a landlord for it (fix problems as they occur, pay the property taxes, etc). That way, me or the kids don't lose ANY of my inheritance money, and W can begin saving some money on her own since she will live rent free.
Recently, I also cut a check for $23,000 to pay off her students loans. I did this because she asked me to -- she said she couldn't make any payments and her credit was being affected. She said she would pay me back once she received the money from the sale of the house. I said okay, but now I'm thinking that at this point I will just tell her not to worry about it, and then go the route of one of the choices above.
I no longer believe she should be entitled to all of this money. I've come to realize that I bought a lot of things and did a lot for us over the years, which definitely compensated for her paying all of the bills over the years. Also, the fact that her and her BF sound like they're licking their chops and just waiting for the money (I guess they talk about it all the time -- about how they'll buy a house, then keep some of it left over to go to Vegas and such), makes me not want to do this anymore. I'm just not happy with this idea of OM also benefitting from my money anymore. I feel like I'm being used -- like she's just using me to get this money. She doesn't give two sh!ts about me even as a friend or father of her children. She could care less about me, and frankly I'm feeling this more and more about her because of it.
Again, I want the kids to be comfortable at both households, but I don't believe my W (or OM) should benefit monetarily for this. I think buying a house and letting them live in it rent free is fair enough, and though it is in some ways controlling, I don't believe it is unreasonable. Why should she get &125,000 to $250,000 of which came from the death of MY family? I can't really come up with one solid reason, and the more I think about it, I need to protect this money for ME and MY KIDS -- NOT FOR HER!
She chose to leave, she needs to live with the reality of this choice. Life's a bitch -- so sorry about that, W! Maybe you shouldn't continue being one too!
Okay, now I'd really like to hear what everyone thinking about this. Am I justified in my thinking? What do you think I should do?
GD
I think buying a house and letting them live in it rent free is fair enough, and though it is in some ways controlling, I don't believe it is unreasonable. Why should she get &125,000 to $250,000 of which came from the death of MY family? I can't really come up with one solid reason, and the more I think about it, I need to protect this money for ME and MY KIDS -- NOT FOR HER!
I wondered when you'd get to this conclusion.
I agree with you that she's not entitled to the money - I'd go for what she's legally entitled to and that's all, personally. Have you signed anything legally yet saying she'd get the $$?
As for the rest, I definitely would NOT buy a house "for" her and the kids to live in. That's way too controlling, way too much enmeshment in her future life, and just wrong on soo many levels. Let her figure out where she'll live and how, that's not your place anymore. As long as it's safe for the kids, that's all you need to be concerned with.
Hi, GD!
It must be nice to hear your suspiscions about how the OM will look when he shows his true colors are correct. You are right, though, not to assume that she will come running back to you just because things w/ OM aren't rosy. You don't want her coming back to you for that reason anyway. You seem to know what you want and what you don't want and that is awesome!
I know it has to be hard to watch her go on the downward spiral that she is going on, though. It might be what she has to do in order to really get her life back together. I have so many people telling me that they pray for my H to be 'broken', which makes me laugh to hear them say that, but I understand what they mean by it. Sometimes you have to hit bottom before you can even think about heading back up.
As far as the money issue, with it being your inheritance, it is truly your money, and I can see how it would be irritating to know that W and OM are salivating over getting their hands on it. I agree w/ Nikki, that I would give her the % of money over buying a house for her. Can you still change the amount of the % that you give to her? I am sure you are more than aware that she will not be happy with you lowering the amount of money that she gets. If you are prepared for the fallout from that, then go for it.
GD--
Can you just set up trusts for the kids? You can even have an outside "professional" manage the trust, paying out things like support (% of a mortgage payment, etc.) rather than give your W more than required. That way, you know that you are working with the best interests of the kids in mind, without rewarding W for her unacceptable behavior and any of her present/future parasitic "boyfriends" who can probably smell the $$ on her a mile away...
I hope that you didn't sign anything yet--get with a lawyer ASAP. I think that your W and my H are on the same ship to the bottom, and we just have to sit back and watch them sink.
Thanks Nikki and Kat!
Nikki,
I wondered when you'd get to this conclusion.
I'm struggling with what to do exactly, but I'm pretty sure now that I'm not going to give her a dime because I honestly don't feel like she deserves it anymore (I think my motive was a mixture of guilt and incentive -- both poor reasons, though it did have something to do with making sure my kids are comfortable at both households). I've done A LOT for her both recently and over the years, and though I made some horrible mistakes and exercised poor communication and behavior over the years, I don't feel guilty anymore. I've accepted my role, made the necessary changes in myself and my interactions with W, and have owned and released my mistakes. I cannot and will not buy her forgiveness. It just isn't healthy, and she is not deserved of any of my inheritance.
I agree with you that she's not entitled to the money - I'd go for what she's legally entitled to and that's all, personally.
I think that's pretty much where I'm at now, though I'm continuing to mull it over (48 hr rule).
Have you signed anything legally yet saying she'd get the $$?
NOPE -- WHEW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm so thankful for this now!
Let her figure out where she'll live and how, that's not your place anymore. As long as it's safe for the kids, that's all you need to be concerned with.
Great point -- thanks for the reinforcement!
Kat,
It must be nice to hear your suspiscions about how the OM will look when he shows his true colors are correct.
You damn right it does!!! I even found out (forgot to post this earlier) that this guy actually has some kind of memorabilia box that contains things from his 2 past marriages, which includes naked photos of both of his exs! W knows this, and apparently it ticks her off (duh!). All I can say is: What a dumb arse! He obviously hasn't learned a stinkin' thing about how to make a relationship work (or just doesn't care about my W too much, and by the choices it sounds like he's making I think it's both!).
You are right, though, not to assume that she will come running back to you just because things w/ OM aren't rosy. You don't want her coming back to you for that reason anyway.
Nope, sure don't. In fact, I don't want her back until she's ready to invest 110% in both herself and the changes needed there, as well as the M itself. And even then, I'm going to have to think carefully now... She's going to have to prove herself over a decent period of time before I take her back. She certainly won't come back to me for convenience sake, that's for sure.
As far as the money issue, with it being your inheritance, it is truly your money, and I can see how it would be irritating to know that W and OM are salivating over getting their hands on it.
Very much so -- that's something that pisses me off now to no end. They're actually making plans together around it, and it isn't even deservedly hers! It is going to be for my kids, and I will not give her the satisfaction of using me so her and her BF can be comfortable.
I am sure you are more than aware that she will not be happy with you lowering the amount of money that she gets. If you are prepared for the fallout from that, then go for it.
I am quite aware of this, and am definitely prepared for it. I've realized that she isn't the woman I want to be married to and raise a family with. I'll be much better off raising the kids without her given her current values. I'm pretty sure this move could severe any possible chance of reconciliation EVER, but it's a move I'm ready to take. I'd like things to be different, but I'm just fine with not being with her ever again.
Thanks for your feedback ladies -- always appreciated!
Next?
GD
Wow GD, that is a lot to digest in one day!
I agree completely with Donna and the others, give her only what is required. You can always help the kids out directly, not through a permanent situation like renting her a house.
Let her go completely and then see how much she misses you.
SD
PS - thanks for the PMA boost, I need it right now.
Donna,
Not sure why I'd want to pay for her mortgage payment if she doesn't deserve it or isn't entitled to it. That's kind of the point I'm trying to make.
I will set up trusts for the kids, but W will not get squat from these or anything else. Our child support is waived, since we both make equal amounts in terms of our earning potential and we have agreed on joint legal and physical custody of the kids. I just paid off her $23,000 in student loans last week -- that's the last thing she's getting from me.
Thanks for your thoughts Donna!
Wow GD, that is a lot to digest in one day!
SD,
Did you read what I found out about OM and his R with W? In two words -- small victory! Though it may be wrong of me to feel this way, I'm pumping my fist Kirk Gibson style (for all you baseball fans).
Let her go completely and then see how much she misses you.
She's not going to miss me -- she's going to be pissed at me (possibly forever!)
GD - sounds like you're getting there, but I think you should go with what's legal in your state. No more, no less. It's not about the mortgage, who pays which bill... if you owe her support (child or spousal), pay it. If not, don't. Let/make her figure out the rest. Take the emotion out of it for a minute and look at it as a PURELY business decision. I think it'll be quite clear what to do.
GD,
I am just beginning to see this stuff about the house. So I want to check the facts. You got an inheritance, and then paid all cash for the house putting it in both names? There isn't a mortgage?
Sara,
I am just beginning to see this stuff about the house. So I want to check the facts. You got an inheritance, and then paid all cash for the house putting it in both names? There isn't a mortgage?
That's correct, and by Idaho law, any money acquired through inheritance, whether put into a situation like a house under both names, is separate property and therefore all goes to the inheritor.
Oh good, Idaho law is different than elsewhere. Because in another state if you commingle the money it's no longer separate property. You will have to work this out through the lawyers. Of course you should get credit for the student loans and other payments you've made for her. So I agree, as long as you are protected by law, the house should be all yours. Why did you put her name on it?
So I agree, as long as you are protected by law, the house should be all yours. Why did you put her name on it?
Because we were married, and as long as we were married, everything was "ours." I wanted her to feel like an equal in that regard -- apparently she really took that to the extreme by thinking she deserved an equal share of it in the D. She actually believes she earned it (WAS's really are looney!).
Yep, Nikki, that was what I was trying to allude to. And I know that GD will make sure that the kids have whatever they need, when they need it. For them.
GD, has your W pulled the BS that the kids will be happier if she, the parent, is happy? She may think that your $$ will do that for her, but you and I both know that her unhappiness is much deeper than even she herself realizes right now. You'd just be throwing the money away.
I don't know which of us will end up with spouses strong enough to do the work required of themselves, personally and for the marriage. It is so completely up to them, and their own choices. I had a hard time letting H go, when his choices seem so wrong to me. But that is simply my opinion, my perception of the whole sitch. He has to be the one to live his life. And I can see that you are ready to let your W live hers.
So, now back to you and your life: any word on grad school? Any big plans in store for you and the kiddos?
BTW folks,
I have no intention of being rude or disrespectful to W regarding anything this. I'm venting a lot here, simply because that is one of the purposes of these boards. I will be very calm, collected, and business-like when/if W and I actually discuss it. No emotion will rear its ugly head!
GD,
I wouldn't be surprised if her belief that she hit the lottery when you bought the house isn't behind the whole divorce. No wonder she's getting angry, the divorce is done and she hasn't gotten her windfall. Doesn't sound like she's planning on having a career much longer either. You better pull the plug on her soon.
D is actually is in a delay right now, and may take even longer once I make a new request to give her nothing in the decree. Just depends on whether or not she wants to fight it (nothing has been signed by me yet).
Yep, definitely pulling the plug:
^-^-^-^-^_______________________________
Good, or I may have to take you on another off-road adventure!
GD - that inheritance exclusion is really interesting, isn't it? We have that here in Cali too - which I've heard is a real bummer of a state to get D'd in if you're the one who has/had more $$. Everything else is really cut and dried community property, but the inheritance thing isn't.
Sara,
Good, or I may have to take you on another off-road adventure!
Definitely freaking me out again! Stop it!
Nikki,
that inheritance exclusion is really interesting, isn't it?
Interesting and relieving (to the person with the inheritance, anyway!). I think it's a great law -- why should someone's spouse be entitled to their spouse's family death money? That certainly wasn't written into the will -- the deceased didn't mean for the spouse to get any of it. Every state should rule this way.
GD--
SO good to see that you still have the funny-bone intact ;0)
Keep venting away, and staying light-hearted.
Once again GD, I have to say I envy you. Fortunately, my talents and skills (and capacity to love) are "inherited" as well and W will not get any of these in the big D either!
SD
Fortunately, my talents and skills (and capacity to love) are "inherited" as well and W will not get any of these in the big D either!
Great comment!!!
Saffie
Howdy partner!
Just wanted you to know I have been thinking bout you and that I am caught up on your thread. Nothing to add to what has already been said.
Later,
Nomo
Thanks SD, saffie, Nomopo (nice to hear from you stranger!), and sandi!
Quick update:
Wasn't invited to a party thrown by mutual friends Saturday night because W and her BF were invited, and W said she wouldn't come if I was going to be there. Obviously she hasn't been able to move on yet. Anyway, that pissed me right off, and I've told these friends that it's W's problem, not mine. We should BOTH be invited to the party, and given the choice whether or not to come because the ex is going to be there too. We should also both be told that if we are there, that we are expected to be civil, and if we don't like the fact that the other is there, ignore them and/or avoid them. The fact that my W has been enabled and given the power to dictate these decisions is disappointing to say the least. Also disappointing is that she can't be mature and grown-up enough to be okay with it. Until today, I've been nothing but helpful, accepting, and accomodating for her, and she has only gotten ruder with me of recent. It shows me that either (or any combination of the following):
a) she has no respect for me
b) she isn't over me
c) is trying to make me react in ways that show the old GD
I also found out last night from a mutual friend that she thinks its kind of funny when she gets an attitude with me for no reason. Along with this, she has taken the stance that my calmness when she is rude to me or attacks me is not really sincere, but is actually me being a smartass (?!?!). I've done nothing to give her that impression, so I believe it is her way of simply justifying her continued negative behavior toward me.
Okay, so today:
I met with me atty late this morning and told him I'm not giving W any of the money from the house sale (i.e. NO inheritance money for her). I also said that I would do other things to help her out, but that is it. I've actually agreed to give her more than she is entitled to, but none of the inheritance money. Problem now is that I have to provide documentation of all of my inheritance AND how it was used to purchase ALL of the house -- and I have to have all of this by Wednesday for trial.
Working on it now, but just wanted to let you all know. And, if you haven't read what I found out about W's R with OM/BF, go back a few pages and read up. It is very gratifying (I know, I'm being evil, but right now it feels so good, and I need to let myself feel these emotions)!
Oh, and W apparently called just a little bit ago (likely found out about my new "offer"), but didn't leave a message. Oh well, her behavior has finally given me the help on detaching that I needed. Thanks W!
Apparently, the line has been redefined!
GD
GD
Sorry for the party thing. Forget about it. Glad you are determined to get things done and this is actually helping you detach. Sounds to me like she is just still totally confused.
C
GD,
I was all for you splitting the house with your W as the right thing to do until your recent posts. Your W sounds like she's being a grasping, childish, manipulative bitch. The comments relayed to friends about her and OM regarding what "they" plan on doing with the money has to infuriate you. Since you were doing it primarily for your kids' benefit, taking that money and putting it into a trust makes a helluva lot more sense than handing it over for your W and OM to pi$$ away. There, ranted a bit for you!
Good luck man. That bit about the party sounds really petty. For myself, I would have disinvited anyone who put that condition on a party I was throwing. C'mon. Actually "broke up" with a friend over that. Was friends with a couple. She put conditions on you can't be friends with both of us, he's still my best friend.
Do right by your kids. You're no longer under any obligation to do right by your W and OM (though that doesn't sound like it's going to well. Hooray for you!).
Finally, and actual thought, she most likely wouldn't be acting some of the way she's acting if she didn't feel at least a little confusion about what's going on. Be firm, but don't be an a$$.
Going back a few pages, if you lead and be gentle, I'll Lindy Hop with you. We both might need to knock back a few first though
BD
CVA,
Sorry for the party thing. Forget about it.
I'd like to, but friends don't do that to one another. Everyone else was invited but me, and simply because my W had a problem with it. That should never be the way these kinds of things are done when you have mutual friends. I don't want to be friends with someone who does this to me, when I wouldn't do it to them.
Heim & CVA,
Sounds to me like she is just still totally confused.
Finally, and actual thought, she most likely wouldn't be acting some of the way she's acting if she didn't feel at least a little confusion about what's going on. Be firm, but don't be an a$$
I agree it sounds something like her being confused, but she did outright deny my request to postpone the D and consider working things out in the future. Also, she has told our friends that she doesn't even like talking to me because she can't stand the sound of my voice (so sweet, eh?). I think she's more or less acting the way she is simply because I haven't jumped at the opportunity to sign the mediation agreement and D decree. She's mad because I haven't done what she wants me to do, and the sooner I do, the sooner she's GUARANTEED the money. That's kind of how I see it.
If she'd have been more civil and respectful to me -- and if I wouldn't have heard about he and OM anxiously waiting for the money and making plans regarding what they're going to do with it -- I might have followed through with it. Not now though. I've come to realize that I've totally been manipulated and used. I've been her doormat, and I'm not going to be anymore. I've already been devasted emotionally through this -- I will no longer allow myself to be devasted financially too. The more I've thought about it, the more I've come to realize that this money was given to me to support and provide for me and my family (and my W is NOT a part of my family anymore). She should've only been entitled to it while she was a part of my family. Since she has been the one to chose not to be such, she should have to deal with the legal and natural consequences of her actions.
Thanks for ranting with/for me, Heim -- I thoroughly enjoyed it!
You're no longer under any obligation to do right by your W and OM (though that doesn't sound like it's going to well. Hooray for you!).
Yes -- a small victory in this emotional war! Hope you enjoyed it and that it gave you some hope, too! I think we all kind of celebrate these victories vicariously through one another.
I'm becoming a pretty good Lindy lead, so you'll be in good hands (and I'll be gentle
).
GD
GD,
Good work, you caught that house/inheritance thing just in time. Heimy had a good idea to set the money aside for the kids as a college fund, or for down payments on their houses someday. That will take some of the wind out of her sails when she gets angry about not getting the $$ herself. You are definitely going to see that girl's true colors in the very near future.
(Another one of my crystal ball predictions.)
Hey, GD.
Sorry about the party and your W starting to be more ugly towards you. Hopefully your friends will get tired of her calling the shots of who can and cannot come to their parties and they will stop inviting her and OM (isn't he way older anyway?). I agree that her coldness could have to do with a combination of several possible reasons. I am also sorry that you are feeling used by her, but I am glad you realized it and did something about it before all the papers were signed. You only have the obligation to take care of you and your kids now and I am sure you will do that job well.
As far as you and Heim dancing together--your dance partner, Dina, was telling us how whenever two guys would dance together an ambulance would always have to be called. I guess it would get a little dangerous when they would try to out-do each other. So, be careful, you two!
Thanks for ranting with/for me,
You got it. Lemme know if you ever want me to work myself into a lather of righteous indignation for you again. Feels pretty good and if I do it in my sitch, I just get pi$$ed.
Sorry it's turning this way for you. Sara has a pretty good point, your W will show her true colors in the coming weeks. If she's about the money being for the kids, then the money being put in trust for them should make her plenty happy. And, egads, you paid off her student loan. My lord, if she can't appreciate that, my man . . .
I have to agree with you on the party. You're friends did you wrong.
BD
Hi GD,
Just read the update regarding your change in splitting your inheritance w/ your W.
I posted this to you a couple of weeks ago, after she made it clear she wasn't interested in extending the D date. In fact, if I remember correctly, she rolled her eyes at the suggestion.
Last night, after reading about the "talk", I put myself in your W's place to see how it might look.
This is going to sound shallow; One of the "thoughts" I had as your W, is that if I don't get a D now, then I'm back to being in limbo w/ parts of my life, especially financially.
She knows that the offer of sharing the proceeds from the sale of the house is a generous one. If you stop things now, she might not be in that position again.
Maybe she wants to go ahead with it, get in a better position, & then consider a new R with you
.
I think you're approaching this in a much healthier way, & keeping it more in a business mode, which is where it should prolly be.
Her behavior is questionable, at best. Certainly not wise for someone who wants a favorable deal to show before it actually closes.
Makes ya wonder, don't it! That was a pretty expensive party she went to......
L&L,
Sunny
Thanks Sara, Kat, Heim, and Sunny!
I agree that I should set up some sort of trust fund for the kids, though I don't know what the $ amount will be. I'm going to look into it in the near future. I also agree that this will take some wind out of her sails, though it will likely be minimal.
You are definitely going to see that girl's true colors in the very near future.
I completely agree, and I think I'm seeing them "blossom" already! She may try to be sweet in an attempt to go back to agreeing to give her the money, but I'm not going to fall for that. If she wanted to be nice to me for the right reasons, she would've been nice to me this whole time, and I'm not going to let a short term behavior sway me.
And, egads, you paid off her student loan. My lord, if she can't appreciate that, my man . . .
Trust me, Heim -- it's not enough because it's not what she expected and wants. Sad, but true... Maybe someday she'll understand and learn to be appreciative, but I don't see that happening for many, many years.
I think you're approaching this in a much healthier way, & keeping it more in a business mode, which is where it should prolly be.
Thanks. I'm sure I could be doing a better job of not letting my emotions get involved, but I do understand that this is about me and my kids' future -- not hers. I made the original offer mostly out of guilt, and the hope that she would see my kindness as sincere. However, the latter was never the case (she thought she deserved it, was entitled to it, etc). I've also come to realize that I cannot buy her forgiveness with my offer out of guilt. I would only come to resent both her and my decision in later years, knowing that she didn't deserve it and had no right to it. Whether or not my emotions are involved, not giving her the money is still the "correct" and unfoolish thing to do. It isn't selfish -- it's unfoolish (is that even a word? Heck, I'm the English teacher and still don't know!
).
Her behavior is questionable, at best. Certainly not wise for someone who wants a favorable deal to show before it actually closes.
Quite true -- she's definitely not thinking at all right now. Actually, don't think she has been for some time...
That was a pretty expensive party she went to......
That wasn't the root cause, but it certainly did factor in to cementing things in my mind. I had been kicking around the idea with a friend all day long prior to finding out I wasn't invited to the party because of her and OM.
Quick update:
Got a lot of papertrail work done today showing the house was purchased through my inheritance. I'll be talking with my atty again tomorrow in hopes of having all of my ducks in a row for trial on Wednesday.
W did leave a VM on my cell today while it was charging. She wasn't rude sounding, but it did have a hint of concern or smidge of kindness to it. It simply said, "Hey it's me. Can you call me when you get this? Thanks, bye."
Didn't call her back and don't plan to. If she can't leave a reason as to why, I'm gonna leave the ball in her court until she can. I'm not going to be mean, angry, an ass, etc. I'm just ready to "flush the toilet" and wash my hands of her. It's time to play hardball. As long as she is the person she has become (which is much worse than she was when we were together), I want nothing to do with her personally. Nothing.
This release of desire for her feels really good! I mean...REALLY good! Thanks again, W -- your attitude despite all of my help and kindness has shown me the light!
GD
GD,
Bless your heart. I know all this is hard to deal with right now, but atleast it's giving you the detachment you need.
W called both my cell and the home phone again today and left a VM and home message after I didn't return her calls yesterday. I called her back a while later and we talked for a good hour and a half about many things, but mostly about me deciding not to give her the money from the sale of the house anymore. I'll post in great detail later (tonight?), but just wanted to at least provide that update. Trial has now been moved from today (Wed) to Dec. 7th. I've got a lot to report out regarding the conversation, so have your reading glasses ready!
Going out for a late night bike ride to clear my head.
GD
Thanks for boosting my PMA GD...I needed that....I will have my reading glasses ready!! Bike ride motorcycle...or physical bike...just curious! Keep your chin up my man...sending some good vibes your way!! (((GD)))...
Christa
GD
You apparently didnt fall off your bike and hit your head last night, so good job!
Ready and waiting for the update.
C
Sounds like you've gotten excellent advice.
Just to emphasize -- protect your best financial interests in the D. Period. It is financial business. Period.
You can always be more or less generous with your cash after the settlement agreement is in place. You can pay for whatever you want, put whatever you want in trust, and so on.
But, do not bind up your flexibility in a legal financial agreement that will be pretty much set in stone.
Insofar as impossible minimize your *legal* financial commitment to W. If you feel you have a moral commitment above the legal commitment, fine. Meet that moral commitment outside of the legal framework.
Thanks for boosting my PMA GD...I needed that
No problem, christa!
Bike ride motorcycle...or physical bike
Bicycle ride -- the exercise helps to clear my head. I always wanted a street bike, but my W despised them and thought they were stupid. Think I'll get one one of these days. Gonna get one of the new Camaros when they hit the market too.
Okay, I'll try not to be too long with my update. Keep in mind that W and I talked for a long time, so the following isn't by any means in chronological order (though I'll do my best):
So, W called again yesterday leaving a VM that said, "Hey, it's W. I don't know if there has been some sort of misunderstanding, but call me when you get this. Thanks, bye."
So I waited about an hour, then called her back. We talked for about an hour and a half, and all the while she was at work (?!?!). She started out by saying that her atty called her yesterday and told her that I had decided not to offer her half of the money from the sale of the house. W then said that she didn't know what had happened, and that if it was about the date she set in the D decree for when the house had to be on the market, she would be willing to extend it to whenever I wanted, and that she was sorry for not calling me back over the weekend when I originally called about it on Friday (she made some lame excuses for why she couldn't call me). She then apologized again for any misunderstandings.
During this time I just sat back and calmly and patiently listened to her, making sure she got out whatever she was wanting to say. Then, when it seemed she was done, I told her that I am sorry for my change of heart, but that I did a lot of thinking this weekend and came to the conclusion that I had originally offered her the money for the wrong reasons -- out of guilt, as well as incentive for her to appreciate me -- and now realize that I need to protect the money for my own future and my family's future. I said that when she left and chose to stick with the D, she made the decision to not be a part of my family, and my inheritance was intended to take care of me and my family, and therefore it isn't my responsibility, nor is it in my best interest to make sure she is or she and her BF are financially stable and/or comfortable. This was all said very sincerely, calmly, and evenly. I also said that I understand that this change of action on my part may very well cause her to resent me, and may permanently close the door on any possible friendship or reconciliation between us, but that this is a sacrifice I now feel I must make. I added that if I don't, I know I will resent her for the rest of my life for getting money that came about as a result of the death of my family -- money that I no longer believe she is entitled to.
W countered by saying that she just wanted a place where the kids could have their own space, a yard to play in, etc, and that the kids deserve to have a place with those things and where they are comfortable. I rebuttalled by saying they did have a place 24/7 where this was the case -- it was our place, which is now only my place.
She said I know, but I couldn't stay any longer. I tried until I was just dead inside. I was empty, and I couldn't try anymore.
I told her that I will do whatever I can to help her get to a point where she can get her own place, but that it isn't my responsibility to provide one for her anymore. I said that I will always do whatever needs to be done for the kids -- anytime the kids need something from her that she can't afford, I will be there to help out. I then stated that besides that, my only job as far her and the kids' home goes is to make sure it is a safe environment for the kids. It isn't my job to make sure they have their own space, and yard, etc -- I only need to make sure the home is safe for them (thanks for helping me with this, Nikki!).
As the conversation continued, she asked if I didn't believe that she should have a fresh start without having to struggle financially, since that's what I get to have. I answered by saying that I will do whatever I can to help her get back on her feet, but that I don't believe she is entitled or deserves $250,000 of my family's money to get her there. I told her that I already cleared her student loan debt and don't want any repayment of that. I then added that I'm willing to pay 80% of daycare expenses while the kids are in daycare, that I will allow her to claim both kids an dependents on her taxes for as long as she wants, that I will pay off any medical debt still standing from her diabetes and such, and that I will even put down some earnest money on a house once she gets in a position to buy one. I said that legally I don't have to do any of these things, but I want to because I don't want her to have to struggle a great deal. However, that being said, I added that I don't think it is healthy or in my best interest to hand her a promising future anymore.
She said that she felt like I was punishing her, and I replied that I wasn't intending to do so at all -- why would I be willing to do these other things if I was? -- but once I took the emotions out of everything I realized that I was giving her the money for the wrong reasons. I told her that I no longer feel guilty for the breakdown of the M. I've come to accept my mistakes, embrace them, and let them go because I cannot change them, but that I can, am, and will change how I behave and make choices in the future. I said I now realize that she had a large role in the M falling apart, and that I shouldn't have to take all of the blame for it. I finished by saying that these realizations have helped me to look at the situation logically and reasonably, and allowed me to see that this offer was simply the wrong thing to do.
She said that she felt that because her name was on the house, it made her entitled to the money. I said that while she was with me, she was an equal partner with an equal say about the house, and that her name was on it for legal reasons and to make her feel like she was an equal in regard to decisions about the house. I continued by saying that I know that I could've done a much better job of making her feel like she had an equal say in things and that she had an equal partnership in decisions regarding the house and the money. I acknowledged that I didn't do this, and that I always had to approve of things she wanted, yet never needed her approval for things that I wanted. I said I feel awful for this, and know that it was so wrong of me, but that because I've come to realize these things, I know that I would've made it right and changed this behavior and dynamic had she decided to give me and our M another chance.
She agreed that I controlled all of the financial decisions, and added that I either had to approve things she wanted, or she had to hide her purchases. I validated this, and empathized with her feelings about it and told her that I now see how wrong it all was, and that because of the separation I've been able to come to grips with a lot of my short comings in the M. I told her that through my IC work and the reading of many relationship books and self help books I came to accept that I was critical of her, judgemental, controlling -- that I belittled her at times, made her feel stupid, etc. I said that all of these things were/are inexcusable, and I can understand why she felt she had to leave. However, I added that without the separation and my efforts to look deep within myself, none of this would've been possible, and I likely wouldn't have been able to accept these things and make the necessary changes for both myself and either our R/M or any future R I have.
I said that I so wished she wouldn't have given up on me and our nM, and that she would've given the separation more time, tried MC, etc. She replied by saying she was willing to give the separation more time, but that I forced her to make a decision (which I did, a mere 6-7 weeks after first separating). I agreed that I know my doing so was wrong, and had I known then what I know now -- that you needed so much time and space -- I would still be okay with being separated and still wouldn't be pressuring her to decide. I added that she had denied my multiple offers to rescind the D filing, postpone the D, etc, and that she had flat out refused the MC idea long ago even during the separation period. I told her that it seems to me that she never had any intention of getting back together with me, even during the separation period. She denied this, and actually said she was willing to consider it, but I forced her decision too early and she wasn't ready to work it out at that time, and now she isn't willing to try anymore either.
We talked about many more things, and that sad part is that she did say she knew she had played a part in the breakdown of the M, but she never actually verbalized what her part, mistakes, etc, were. This tells me that she really hasn't reflected on this, nor really taken responsibility for it, and was more or less telling me this in an attempt to win back my original offer for the money. Just saying what she had to to change my mind.
I also told her that I didn't feel right setting her and her BF up to be comfortable with my family's money. She then said that she had no intention of moving her BF in with her once she got a house. I then told her that I had heard that her and her BF had been discussing it in terms of "when WE get a house," and "OUR house," etc. She denied this, saying that her and her BF never talked about the money or the house like this. Personally, I don't know why my friend would've said he heard this if they hadn't talked this way. Who am I supposed to believe: my WAW or my friend? Anyway, I said that she moved in with him and is living with him now, so why would that change when you got a house (would she really make him stay in his own place and struggle with rent while she living rent/mortgage free? Come on!)? She just said that she only moved in with him because she couldn't afford to live on her own anymore, which is what I speculated in the first place. I answered with saying that I'm sorry you had to do that, but again it was your choice to leave me without doing everything we could to work it out, and this is just another one of the natural consequences that resulted from that decision. I cannot help these things, because it isn't my place to do so. You chose to get into a new relationship, and I'm happy that you're happy in it, but whether or not your BF was going to move in with you or not, it's not my place to provide for you anymore.
I know that she isn't doing well with her BF right now, but played dumb regarding this knowledge, and she actually agreed that she was happy right now. I believe she did this because she doesn't want me to know she's having R problems with him, simply because she'll know I'll be thinking, "Ha ha, I knew it wouldn't work out!" The more I think about it all, the more I wonder if she really wasn't going to let him move in with her, and was planning on dumping him when she became financially independent. Oh well, I think I'll let her dig herself out of this situation with her BF. It's not my job to do so. If she only moved in with him for financial reasons, that sure says a lot to me!
We also kind of bantered back and forth about what we personally did well in the R, and this really didn't get us anywhere, and constantly got us off the main point regarding the money. I think that eventually she finally realized that I wasn't going to budge on the money issue, and that I was very serious and determined not to give in to it, and that trying to convince me to do so was in vain.
She also did admit that she had seen changes in me, and that she was surprised about the ways in which I reacted when she had gotten pissy or angry with me. She admitted that my calmness and acceptance of her feelings had caught her off guard, and that she knew that in the past I would've gotten angry back at her and likely even hung up on her. This made me feel good, because it confirmed that she had recognized my changes in behavior. However, it saddens me to know it didn't change her mind. She told me that even though she had seen these changes, it was too late because she was still emotionally done inside. She did, however, tell me that this was hard on her emotionally too, and if I didn't believe this that I was very wrong.
I also told her earlier in the talk that I never wanted her to come back because of guilt, or because she was or was going to struggle financially. I said that I wanted her to come back only if she realized that she did love me, saw changes in me that were genuine and long term, and was willing to work 100% on the M. I said this is why I helped her financially over the last 9 months, and also why I made the offer regarding the sale of the house. I wanted her to come back for the right reasons, if she was going to come back at all.
Throughout the entire conversation, neither of us got angry or short with the other. We were both very sincere and respectful to one another, but it did seem to me that she still placed all of the blame on me. She did get cry to some extent during the conversation, and began balling at the end, finishing the talk by saying that she had to pee really bad and had to go.
She hasn't done the work on herself yet, and I think that the next several months may allow her to do this -- I just don't know.
So, the D has officially be post-poned. The new trial date is set for Dec. 7th (Pearl Harbor day). I wonder if the holiday season will come into play at all regarding her emotions? One thing is for sure: I'm going to be completely detaching during this time. I'm going to ask that the child exchanges only be done at daycare (so we don't have to be in personal contact with one another). I'm going to continue GALing and contacting her only regarding necessary kid issues (i.e. minimal contact), and will attempt to do this via text messages and/or written notes exchanged through the daycare medium. She doesn't have the internet, so I can't use that (darn it!). I will try to keep actual phone contact to a minimum.
We'll see if this helps her to begin reflecting on things. Don't think it will (at least regarding us), but maybe it will help her reflect on herself and what she really wants. I actually hope that her BF and her breakup so she can work on herself. I think she needs this, and if they do breakup I will offer to help her to get by on her own for a while.
Thanks for trudging through my long post -- needed to get all of that out. I'm feeling a little guilty about taking the money offer back, but I know that it is the right thing to do. Heck, I'm still helping her out quite a bit, and even told her that most people walk away from a M with sustantial debt to their name, and that I've taken care of hers so she has the best chance to start out in a good financial position. No more car or student loans -- just regular everyday bills. That's reality, and she's going to have to deal with it. If it ruins our friendship or any chance at future reconciliation, so be it. I will not risk my future to save this. Not anymore. If she can't appreciate the kindness and help I've already provided and will continue to provide, I don't want that friendship or R.
We'll see if she can quit being selfish and see the big picture.
GD
GD
I personally think you did AWESOME! Good for you. DO NOT FEEL GUILTY.
C
GD,
Quit making emotional financial promises.
Get the legal side squared away.
Worry about the other stuff after that and go slowly with it. You are still throwing money at her in exchange for her feelings.
Thanks CVA,
I'm pretty happy with everything myself, considering. It's too bad that she's at a place where she believes I'm trying to punish her. In a way, she is kind of being punished (financially) for leaving, but it is simply a consequence of her choice to leave. It isn't vindictive on my part -- it is purely a business decision.
OT,
Good points. You're very correct in that I'm throwing money at her in exchange for her feelings. It is a moral issue with me in that I don't want her to be financially in the dumps, and I feel this way because of how poorly I treated her at times throughout the M. I know that money can't pay for this, but I do feel bad that I'm set financially and she is not. You're probably right that I should set up the legal stuff in a purely business-like fashion, and then if I want to, provide for her under my moral obligations when I feel it is the "right" thing to do. However, I feel like it is still controlling for me to more or less say, "I'll help you if/when I think I should."
Know what I mean?
GD
GD,
Great job on the convo, but don't give her crap unless you want to for you. She will become dependant on it and then when you have a new life you will get sick of helping her out and when you find a "special lady friend" she won't appreciate it all that much either. It's just another connection point, I think my W is heading in the same way, she thinks she can keep getting things from me as a H but not play her role as a W, M doesn't work that way.
GD,
All I can tell you is that your feelings will change. Atlas is correct. You are still trying to be a good husband.
You are not her husband in anything other than a legal sense.
Go for a legal settlement. Wait six months or a year after D and then start thinking about your responsibility for her post-D life.
I've never seen ANYONE, WAS or LBS get more generous as time passes. This isn't because they are evil, but because they get less attached to their financial role in someone elses life when that someone else is not in their life.
The courts will watch out for the kids interests.
You watch out for your interests. Like I said, you can always choose to be more generous, but wait until you are in a settled place to make those choices.
Your W is sleeping with OM, living with OM, taking care of OM's kids, f*cking OM. She is not your W. Quit acting like her H.
Thanks Atlas and OT,
OT,
I hear what you're saying, and just want to make sure you know that W didn't leave me for OM -- she began dating him 4 months after the separation and 2 months after I filed for D. She wasn't cheating on me, really, and I don't think either of us see it as an A. I know this doesn't change the fact that she is with someone else and not with me, but it does cause me to not see her R as one of the factors that contributed to the breakdown of our M. You're right though -- need to quit acting like an H. I'm getting better at it real fast, but will keep working on it.
Thanks,
GD
GD - I think you handled it well. It is an understatement to say "Heck, I'm still helping her out quite a bit," and that includes what you have done for her and what you said you would do for her. I agree with OT in that you shouldn't make any of this part of the D settlement. Get that down to what it has to be. If you want to do more later, you can. DOn't make other promises now, because you may have to go back on them like you did on the house (which I was the right thing to do, in case that wasn't clear).
Hope you're well buddy. It sounds like it.
Nomo
GD,
The timing of the R is irrelevant to my comments. Notice that the only reason you would think it relevant would be if you were tying the financial legal agreement to emotional matters about who done who wrong.
This is what is relevant to the legal agreement: what is legal minimum that is reasonable to pursue (*legally* reasonable)
However, since you brought it up, given that OM is not really someone who interferred in your R, it might help to switch to calling him her BF. He really isn't an OM because there is no romantic triangle.
Some people call a legally divorced spouses new girlfriend/boyfriend OP SEVERAL YEARS DOWN THE LINE AFTER D. (Something to avoid, unproductive stuckness..)
Wait a minute, this is news. If you divorce your husband you don't get the benefits of being married to him? You don't get to use his bank account for everything you want? When did this happen?
Sara,
I'm sorry your just finding this out, apparently it is a fairly common mistake. In fact, my W seems to have the same idea. I'm thinking of creating a seminar and traveling the country teaching this to WAS, it could be called "What you get, since you don't get it!"
I think us men dont get it either. We sometimes hope so bad it will work out we remain stuck in our detachment cuz we provide the money (if that is the case) which in and of itself is controlling, i.e. if we keep providing, she will see the light and come back. I think this is way off topic now that I have typed it, oh well.
C
I think you mean stuck in your "attachment"...
Hi GD,
That was an impressive conversation you had w/ your W. I think it is great that you both we able to stay respectful and calm through the whole thing. You guys were talking about some heavy stuff (your R/M, $$$) and I am glad it didn't get ugly. That shows some growth in both of you, right?
I happy for you that she mentioned that she noticed the good changes in you (how could she not?). You have really worked hard on those things and I am sure it feels good to get some validation for it. Even if it doesn't influence her to change her mind about working on your M now, you know now that she knows how you have changed and maybe down the road, when she works on herself too, it will help her to see you and her R w/ you in a different light.
I agree with what you said about how she needs to break up w/ her BF in order for her to really work on herself (not that there is anything you can do to make her break-up w/ BF). I think time being on your own is important to really figure out who you are and who you want to be. When you constantly have an OP in your life, it is really easy to blame everything on them as to why you aren't happy. People who just go from person to person to person with no time by themselves in between never seem to figure that out.
I think I had more to say, but I have to go pick up the kids. Later!
GD,
All of the above and Wow. Tremendous conversation. Lots of validation for you regarding your changes from someone positioned to know best.
OT kindof hit on something too. I know you feel guilty, but you're W did decide to leave.
Overlooked, I think, in all of this is that the D has been postponed until Dec. I know you're pretty detached from your W right now, but, who knows, you might feel differently next week. Keep it up. You are the man.
BD
Overlooked, I think, in all of this is that the D has been postponed until Dec. I know you're pretty detached from your W right now, but, who knows, you might feel differently next week.
GD,
I gotta say this and please don't take it the wrong way. IF your W breaks it off with BF and wants to come back, DON"T TAKE HER BACK!!! REALLY!!!!
She needs time and space to figure out who she is. If you were to take her back now, she would lose this chance. She would not be able to find out what it is like to live in the real world and support herself. You would never know if she came back to be with you and your money.
This is not being mean, just realistic. Maybe, if you feel like if, a year or so after she breaks up with her BF (yup, not if but when), you can ask her out for a cup of coffee and decide if there is anything there. I bet you won't want to, but ya never know.
SD
Thanks for pointing out something I didn't really intend with my post, SD. I didn't mean to suggest taking her back with open arms, just that GD has, until VERY recently, been very engaged in reestablishing a R with his W. She's got a shiteload of R work to do, and GD knows that (heck, we know that and we've never even met the woman), I was just trying to point out that there might be something there in the future and not to get vindictive or mean or anything.
I've stated that poorly, but I hope you get the gist of what I'm trying to get at.
I tend to agree with you SD, if/when GD W decides to pull her head from her buttocks, GD will have a nice, new spud farmer to be with
BD
This is totally off topic, but GD, do the do your dance on Dancing with the Stars? I don't remeber the Lindy.
p.s. I love that show.
Sounds like you did pretty well, GD. I think Oldtimer makes some very valid points here. Don't kick yourself later for giving her way more than she's entitled to.
Thanks everyone!
alk (Mandi?),
I don't know if they did on that show, but they did on "So You Think You Can Dance?". Didn't get to see it though. Go to YouTube.com and search for "Lindy Hop" -- you'll see some amazing stuff! Actually, if you can search for "Hellzapoppin'" (I believe) on YouTube, you'll see some of the greatest Lindy Stuff I've ever seen! It'll show you a clip from that movie -- it was made in 1941.
SD,
I couldn't agree with you more -- I'm not taking her back until she works on her own issues and makes what I believe are necessary changes in her if she wants to get back together with me. Right now I hear she's really mad at me (just heard it from our mutual friend). He said that she went out for a beer with his fiance last night and cried a lot, saying that life wasn't fair, that I had no right to do this, blah, blah, blah. Apparently she's pretty pissed off at me. She still doesn't get it -- can't accept her responsibility for where she is at, and I'm done worrying about it.
And I do agree -- "when" she breaks up with her BF (or vice versa). It's not going to last. She's there mostly out of convenience at this point, and I just made it more likely that she will stay with him for this. She's going to make herself miserable for a while before she sees the light, I think, and I can only sit back and allow her to hit rock bottom. I wouldn't take her back right now -- I think I even told her as much yesterday during the talk (but I can't remember, for sure).
Heim,
I know what you meant -- one never knows what can happen over these next 3 months, and I will keep an open mind (though I don't believe anything will change).
Nomo and OT,
I think I'm going to take your advice to not include any financial niceties into the D decree. I'll play it by ear, and if W treats me like dirt, crap, etc, she'll have to deal with how that affects me and my choices to help her in the future. I hate to sound conditional with my help, but I can't imagine wanting to help her when she treats me wrong and communicates negatively with me.
Kat,
I think W didn't get ugly because she new it would potentially cement my decision to take back the offer (because she obviously wasn't sure I would stick to my guns). I'm expecting her to be ugly here in the near future, but also expect for her to settle down again (and even by nice and friendly) as we get closer to the new D date, hoping this will change my mind. Not going to happen, though.
Yep, she's going to have to be on her own and fend for herself for a while before she'll even consider working on herself. Hope she gets the opportunity. I kind of feel sorry for her, despite how she is behaving.
GD
Oh, and I am open to constructive criticism (or 2x4s!) regarding the way I handled yesterday's conversation with W that I posted today.
Hey GD
Just caught up on your sitch. Sorry I have been to busy with my own stuff to post here much. Anyway I guess I am glad you are finally seeing this situation in a different light. I think I had posted on either your last post or the post before that I thougth you were being to generous with W in the settlement and that I thought she was being underhanded about the whole thing. I didn't want to see your inheritance money financing a life or her and BF or other BF's down the road. Kudos for you for being able to recognize that you generosity was built on guilt not actual legal obligation. Seems like you are on the right track, keeping the money in your family and for yourself and your kids to have a good life. There may come a time down the road where you will want to help W but at least there won't be any obligation to do so. Like paying her student loans. She should be singing your praises daily for that one. Very proud to see that you are sticking up for yourself and protecting your children's future.
Sorry that the W is treating you poorly and angry about this. But this is reality. She needs to grow up, see what its like to have to care for herself financially and then do some serious work on herself if she ever wants to be worthy of you.
I am not advocating never giving her another chance but certainly making sure that sufficient time has been made for her to find out who she is and what she stands for. Who knows, maybe by then you will have found someone else and moved on yourself.
Keep living your life the way you have and good things will come your way.