My Sitch:
Me (31)
W (31)
S (2)
Bomb: 6-22-07
Seperated: 6-24-07
WAW, upset of my Anger, Control, Alcohol.
First thread:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1114691&page=4&fpart=1Update:
Well here I am! First, I would like to address last Thursday night. I lost it, I let anger, one of issues she upset with take hold. It drove the bus and it wasn’t pretty. I let the mind go, and posted some pretty messed up stuff. For that I would like to apologize to the board and thank those of you that helped bring the landing gear out and bring this trip down. I’m sorry!
Well luckily I didn’t act on anything with the W. But I guess a little update is appropriate on the issue. After the funny VOIP call, used to work with a telco so I was pretty sure, but it was hard to tell. Well the weird call that night from the prefix of the OM to my cell. Later reviewing my home office phone I had a call 2 minutes after the cell call from Motel 8, it is in the OM prefix area. So who knows if a there was a girls night out or a romp at Motel 8. What kills me with this is not the possibility; it is that it is a Motel 8. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve taken her to the best place in town. Funny really. Well the next morning there was no morning after. Who know’s what went down. I sure don’t so don’t let the mind run wild.
Well, I got off the boards to gain control of myself and think for a while. I will try and catch up with others tomorrow.
Friday, wife called and needed the insurance card for her prescription. Gladly got it to her. I decided to follow the advice of the IC session I had, guy has no idea how far apart W and are I. Tried to explain but I think I’m be looking for another if the next session doesn’t approve. Well I took his advice to do something for myself. I decided to buy a new flat screen TV and stereo home theatre. Called wife from work and asked if I could stop by after work and pick up some CD’s and DVD’s. What is she doing with my Ministry any way! Al rules!
Went by her place and packed up quickly. I went to make my exit and she asked me to stay. I just listened didn’t say much. She asked why I was getting these things, when she took all the electronics, I told her what I was up to. She seemed kind of put off by it. Haha! Eat it!
Well I listed to her for about 45 minutes, she told me that she was lonely and confused. I just listened. After a while she asked what I thought, and I just reiterated the things she said and added it’s probably not easy right now. She complained about cash and not making her bills, hmm, wonder were wonder boy is in all this. Obviously he isn’t meeting all the needs, now is he?
Made a quick get away. She dropped S off early today, asked to talk for a minute and again told me she was lonely. This time I was more receptive, and told her that if she needed to talk or wanted support I was here, no string attached. She thanked me for that.
S and I had a great day. Went and did a lot of stuff. I told W that morning that I would help her out with money. She said she would stop by after work and get it. It was W’s first day of her new schedule and she didn’t make it back out. She did call later in the day to say she was meeting her step sisters for the night. She talked to S for a minute, and then I got back on, and again with the lonely! Hmm, not to sure what to do with this at this point. Any R talk and she about crawls down a hole and dies, so I don’t want to really address it. Not sure what to do with that? Well I ended the call and I heard her saying my name but I was already hanging up. Didn’t want to seem desperate.
Well her comes the weird part, if you have dared read this far. S and I are playing and I’m sort of hiding looking out the window because the neighbor is trying to back up a single axle trailer and he has obviously never done this before. Felt guilty for watching, should have gone over and offered but it was too funny. This 740 series BMW drives by, the lady never sees me, but she taking pictures of my car. Huh? W mentioned that she went to the courthouse to file for separation and the clerk told her there was no such thing. Lost there to? The lady never stopped, she just slowed way down and was taking a pic or two of my car. Only thing I can think is she might have been taking a picture of my neighbor’s yard from the angle, but I watched pretty well and got a license plate.
I guess that leads to 4 possibilities. 1) I’m being investigated for a huge child custody battle. Don’t think so, she couldn’t afford that. But she could be getting outside help financially, but not likely if she is so broke on the other bills. 2) Maybe she has gotten an attorney and they are investigating for property settlement. But why do you need a pic, that car has had it and will need to be replaced by next spring. Plus any info they wanted could be requested through legal channels. 3) Lady was taking a pic of the neighbors yard. He has planted like 20 trees in the front yard and it looks horrible, and odd. But I talked to neighbor backing up the trailer and he saw her taking pic’s too. Thank God! I’m not totally nuts. He said the same thing, couldn’t tell if it was my car she was taking pic’s of or the neighbors yard. Said he would keep an eye out. He is semi-retired and home a lot.
Only other thing could be that my assets are being checked out due to some past work I have done and maybe a lawsuit is heading my way. But that is so far fetched, I’d have to be nuts to entertain that idea. No matter what, after analyzing the sitch, I can’t believe W would be that vindictive and then also telling me she is lonely and almost in tears in front of me. So it just doesn’t add up. Well I guess I keep my eyes open.
So here I stand, I’ve really calmed down and decided that I can’t control ANYTHING, but me and the time S has with me. So I’m going to just keep up what I’m doing. I’m getting good results, W seems to be questioning. I have reread the portions of DR that really apply to my sitch and I’m just going to back off, let her do her thing. She is already questioning and if that continues it can only keep getting more questions in W’s head.
((((Atlas))))
I would like to address last Thursday night. I lost it, I let anger, one of issues she upset with take hold. It drove the bus and it wasn’t pretty. I let the mind go, and posted some pretty messed up stuff. For that I would like to apologize to the board and thank those of you that helped bring the landing gear out and bring this trip down. I’m sorry!
No need to be sorry, brotha -- we all need to vent and this is a great place to do it. I apologize too -- I might've been more harsh and less empathetic than I should've been.
Okay, that being said, I'm going to rehash some of what I said in my last big post on your former thread. It sounds like you continued to play detective with the phone calls. I understand it is difficult not to, but now that you did and a Motel 8 number popped up, does the knowledge do you any good? Can you use it in any positive way to get you closer to your goals? I'm guessing we both know the answer to this. Has it given you more stress than you would've had otherwise? I'm guessing this answer is known to both of us too. Please, Atlas, do yourself a favor and detach from the detective work. When my W moved out and go her own apt, do you know how much I went over there to check on her to see what she was up to? Never. What's more, I never even asked her or her friends to tell me where it was (I knew the complex, but never which building or number). Even after it came out due to legal things, I never went and checked it out. I've never once been there, and that has helped me a great deal (mostly because of how proud I am of myself and my conscious choice to not control her in any way). Also, since she's been seeing OM and staying at his house, I've never once inquired about where he lives, and have never attempted to go there either. Doing so would simply eat me alive, and I know this. Atlas, you know this about your own sitch too, so please -- for your own sanity and general health -- refrain from doing it. You are strong and you've done so well in all other areas. Don't let this be your cryptonite, my friend.
On another note, who knows what the heck the woman taking pics is doing, and if you aren't doing anything to get yourself in trouble, then just don't worry about it (develop that duck's back, remember?). It is strange, but let neighbor guy focus on it now (sounds like his life can use the drama rather than yours!). Think about this -- you took her license plate # down. You're creating more drama than you should been dealing with right now. You're getting like me too in the fact that you're taking a little bit of info and over-analyzing it. Too much wasted energy my friend, because in the end you still don't know.
I’ve really calmed down and decided that I can’t control ANYTHING, but me and the time S has with me.
Now
that is real and 100% true!
Much love, Atlas -- I think I was probably a little too harsh again, but you're a much better DBer than your last post demonstrates. I know this because I've seen it. You're having weak moments and are letting them dictate your actions. Stay focused on the DBing and you'll know what to do.
GD
GD,
Thanks for the post. I'm really not seeking info on the calls, I just check my caller ID for work and everything just lined up. But your right, I'm doing what I can to stay busy and not think of things.
I'm not worried about the pic's. There is nothing going on and I'm being a good boy, so who know's what that is about, nor do I care.
Well the W will be by today to pick up S. So I'll see if she brings up the lonely thing again. If so, I will listen, and follow through with IMAGO, but I'm keeping it at that.
Enjoy your Sunday! I'm getting out this afternoon for a good ride and some fresh air.
I've had the kids since Wed and was planning to see a movie with friends after W picked the kids up tonight, but she just called and asked me to watch them again tonight because she has to be to work at 5:00 in the morning. Of course I obliged, but had to cancel my evening plans (didn't mention this to W though -- just doing what I can to be her rock when she needs any sort of help).
GD
GD,
Thanks for the post. Sucks about cancelling the movie, but your with the kids and that is good. Good to keep being her rock.
Well W showed up to pick up son. Asked to talk again!! So I listened, and she is saying she is numb about me and has no feeling left. Said she still didn't want to file yet, but keeps asking if I will be her friend if we D. Keep telling her I will, doesn't matter what happens.
Then she says she wants to do some laundry over here, and says maybe we can take a nap together or watch TV. While I think that is a good sign, TV and napping aren't much of an interaction for her to see me in action. But something is better than nothing, and it does show her comfort level.
So she ran to her place to get laundry and will be back up. I'm going to cook up a dinner, they have hardly anything to cook with, so I'm sure that she will appreciate that. Who knows, sometimes this happens and then ten minutes later she runs.
Keep up the picnic.
Atlas...it is interaction. She is willing lay down with you? There is comfort and trust there. These are definate good steps. The willingness to spend time with you is big......
GD and NDDT, thank you for posting. I have gotten caught up on anyone lately, my mind is a wreck and I've been doing a lot of thinking. Honestly don't know if I want this.
The today basics:
Came back did laundry.
W pulled the I'm filling this week bit.
W started taking cheap shots, telling the dog goodbye, I'll miss this...that...
W needs a new phone, bought her one and we all had dinner.
Back at house she pulls the "I'm filing this week."
Caller her bluff out of anger. Said I wasn't sure I wanted to be married to her anymore, and that if she is going to file then do and get it over with. W started crying, "You don't want me anymore?" Told her I couldn't answer that right now.
W asks for 10 month seperation, no filing. Rest of night is great.
End of night she says I should date because she is. All I said is that I'm married and I plan on keeping my commitment, she could do as she wanted. W said, "What about consequences?" "All choices have them."
I need to back away for a while or I'm going to file. That is my big decision, I refuse to file, this is her D. But if I keep hearing this crap, I'm going to file and unleash the dogs. I'm really angry now, not so much sad, but just angry. One of my issues.
Well I'm not going to act on anything and I'm really gaining control over it, I have to with her. But I am thinking of GAL hard, no time to talk got to run, quick drops and pick ups. Not to worried about a response, since I already tried to pull the trigger today and nothing fired. So I figure I'm going to peak her interest and see what happens.
By the way, what is the deal with going to the bar that she NEVER liked, is the one all my friends go to, and one bartends at. All I can think of is she is trying to get me pissed. Can't react to it. But why? I think she is so upset she is trying to intentionally hurt me. She really has hit bottom with me, so keep trying.
Quick note. Only two things besides my S, that I can think of for holding on to this right now are; 1) I've put in too much time and invested to much into this, 2) I don't want to go through the legal process.
Really don't see any reason that relates to me and W as a couple. I hope this is a temporary feeling, cause I'm pretty close to done.
Don't worry I figure this decision will take a lot more time then 48 to resolve.
Atlas,
She is definitely testing your resolve, IMO. I LOVE the idea of you finally more or less throwing your hands up and saying (not literally -- just to yourself), "Fine, have your hayday. I'm not gonna sit around and wait for you to figure it out and tug me this way and that until you do. I'm gonna GAL, and it certainly won't have anything to do with you," etc, etc. Obviously, you should stay upbeat, friendly, etc, but detach like a motha and go dark. No contact other than completely necessary (i.e. son), much less financial help, if any (this is a problem I have), quick pick ups and drops (liked that idea), etc. Show her that you will be just fine and happy without her, and since that seems to be the choice she is making, you're just showing her you're getting a head start. Let her think on THAT.
Sorry, I'm venting
for you right along
with you! She's definitely lost and needs to dig deep to find herself. Just enjoy your picnic while she wanders aimlessly in the castle!
GD
Disclaimer:
I might be completely wrong about everything forementioned in this post, and therefore I will not be held liable for any casualties resulting from said advice. I am not a professional DBer, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night.
Let her supposed intentions be hers. And I say supposed because you don't know for sure.
You go now and GAL life for yourself and try not to think about her intentions or motivations.
GD,
I love the disclaimer. I think your right, I need to let her live her choice. She may file soon, she may not. I don't have control over that. If I follow through with backing up and she files, I have a head start to my resolve. If she doesn't file, she will live life in the fast lane and have her cake, but eventually she is going to feel the regret that sounds like it is already there.
On a good note, she initiated the hug tonight. For the first time in a long time she really grabbed me and came in. God I want to help her, I want her to be happy, just worried I'm going to get flogged any day now.
So I keep expressing my problems here, keep it cool with her and pull back.
Good. This the place to vent. Use it.
Well I'm not sure what to do here. I did the first day pull back and she has called twice.
This weekend discussed about doing an every other weekend thing. Well I talked, she got pissed. I wanted to head out of town this weekend, and she asked what for. Told her for a camping trip. She lost it, that was part of our issues, too much time with friends. She told me that I need to make S a priority and that it wasn't far for me to take off and leave her to watch him. Didn't know being with him was that bad for her. So I stopped her and said you made two statements there and I want clarification. I said your upset about me camping between you and I, and also upset about not making S a priority, which is it. She said not making S a priority. How could she say the other, she left. I said so then last thursday when you went to a bacheloret party and left S with me, was that a correct priority. Ouch! Shouldn't have but couldn't resist, I was too pissed. Got a screw you. Hmmm, hit a bone there. Well I told her that I wanted to follow through with her advice and get out, so I was trying to do that but now she seemed upset. Didn't want to talk about it.
First day of really pulling back and now she is checking on my schedule.
First call: W calls and says that she was wrong about me getting out of town and said she will find a sitter during her shift and watch S this weekend. Didn't mention that plans are cancelled after friend messed his shoulder up in a dirt biking accident. Just said thanks, sounds good talk to you later. Hung up.
Second call: After work call from W, asking if she can come over and do some computer work and hang out. Told her I wouldn't be home tonight, then she said well if you don't mind I can do the computer work tomorrow at work and pick S later, told her "sounds good, see ya later."
Should I be this short on words? Should I keep her from the house and me this much? She is being very kind in the calls, I don't want to go backwards here.
I think you are handling it just right. You said that as soon as you pulled back, she took some steps toward you. You are seeing that pulling back draws her toward you. I know it is scary to think you might be pushing her away too much, but it doesn't sound like you are doing that in your last post. You have to find that balance between not being overly attached to her and not being overly cold to her. It can be tough, but it sounds like you might be there already.
Funny, she just called again. It was about the last call again. She stated that she really had to do this extra work, and she offered to pick him up late tomorrow or I could bring him in the morning, she reiterated that it would be fine to stop by after and get him. Probably didn't make the right choice, I thought another free night to party for her. Told her to pick him up and that it would be fine. She said she would be there.
Hmmm, only reason I can think she would call was to have the night off, can't speculate why the night off, have to leave that alone. Probably should have given that to her.
Watch your anger, Atlas. She is looking for it, and will use it against you.
Be calm, polite, and asolutely merciless. Take care of S and be as understanding and helpful as possible on that one and only issue. Otherwise, pull back completely. GAL like a madman, be happy, do not include her. Show her what it is she is asking for.
Disclaimer: Well, you read my last thread (new one soon, I promise).
Hang in there, dude.
Thanks GD and ItsKat!
Your advice is always appreciated. I'm actually really good with the anger with her. Don't show and express any of it. I'm really calm and cool. I have to learn to control it in my own mind though when I'm alone. That is tough. But I'm working on it and I need to start some reading on it.
Atlas - hey. Finally caught up on your thread again. Whew, busy four or five days huh?
You have been getting excellent advice. I want to echo what WC said. It's good to pull back and all, and GAL, but don't try to punish W or teach her a lesson. Keep it short and sweet (and don't forget sweet). Try to help her when you can and want to, especially if it is for your kid's interest. But you don't have to be a doormat or cancel your plans to help her out if you don't want to. A schedule can help with this. Fianlly, there are lots of positives in your sitch still. Lots. But there is alien talk too, and alien conduct. The mixed signals are to be expected, sodon't get disocuraged. I think the mixed signals reflect your W's confusion about what she wants primarily. Do don't put too much stock in the negative feedback.
Hope it helps,
Nomo
Nomo,
Thanks for the encouragement.
General question:
So i'm pretty sure about the OM, not sure if it is a PA or not, don't want to know. BUT, I'm defiently in the situation the book describes where the W has turned outside to fulfill her EN.
DR talks about finding out what she gets from this relationship and doing the same. I so far think it is the affection. I'm doing all I can to say positive things to her, but I also think her PLL is gifts, so I have a little something every time she shows and I always get a sincere thank you. Just like her pepsi, latte, etc.
But how do you go about finding out from her what she is getting out of this, without a) asking, and b) snooping?
The only route I come up with is listen intently to what she says I do wrong, I imaging the opposite of that is what he does right, so I have to do the opposite don't I?
Any thoughts are appreciated?
But how do you go about finding out from her what she is getting out of this, without a) asking, and b) snooping?
The only route I come up with is listen intently to what she says I do wrong, I imaging the opposite of that is what he does right, so I have to do the opposite don't I?
I think this is about right. Keep thinking on it. Things wil come to you. Realizations, etc. Think about what her complaints are about you and the M. Chances are, OM is filling some of those voids. He probably makes her feel great about herself.
Do you know OM? I knew my W's OM - he was a friend of hers from work, and we interacted with him at times. He's been to our house, played with our kids, etc. W told me stuff about their interactions (pre-discovery). I found more by snooping (pre-DR). So I had some insights into their R.
Hope it helps,
Nomo
PS - don't over do the PLL stuff. If it's too thick, it could be pressure that will drive her away and also be viewed as not sincere. Take it slowly. (maybe not a gift everytime she comes over. How often is that?
Nomo Thanks,
I have no clue who the other guy is. I just know that it was the first OM for a while, then she “dumped’ him and now has another OM. As soon as she meet this guy, her whole lifestyle changed. It’s about motorcycle’s, bars, new music, clothes, everything. I actually feel good about this, because while she has always been a very outgoing person, this sudden new change isn’t her and I think she can only keep it up for so long. So there is an excitement there that I’m not providing, which is tough when she doesn’t want to do much with me besides talk. Not very exciting.
I’m pretty good on the PLL stuff, I know when it is good and not so good. I would say about every third time I see her I get something, but it is usually small and I don’t make a big deal about it at all.
Ok. On the excitement, what things have you always wanted to try for you that you never did? Now would be a great time. I am seriously thinking about running a marathon in January. Also, what kind of fun things did you used to do that you stopped (for whatever reason)?
I ride a road bike a lot, or at least used to. Now I'm smoking a lot, have to stop that, but I'm pretty good at setting those down. I've always wanted to do a tri, just a short one first to see how I liked it and then maybe more. I think I should focus on that, but that is me.
I used to climb a lot, haven't in years, but I just might start that again, I live too close to not give it a go. Although I never quit that for family issues, more issues with getting seriously hurt, so ah maybe not.
Used to flyfish whenever I could, but sort of afraid to get fishing going again, that was a huge argument on her part, and the son has his own little play rod, but when he plays with it, she snaps verbal negativity to the son and I on it. So I think I'll just let that rest.
Its sort of a weird issue, she was originally attracted to me for the outdoor activities, I got her into downhill mtn biking and she was an addict tell the S. But I always got her out for some activity, well after the S, I kept going and she stayed home. Of course the drift comes. So she is really mad about me not being there and available. I think by doing some of these things she will see and feel her resentment again. Not sure?
So I think it might be good if I do some things I can take S along on, that solves the non family time, and if she wants to join great. Probably should avoid the overnight trips, that shows I'm gone again. There is enough close by for day trips anyway.
I used to carry him in a pack, but he is getting big. I could probably use the exercise. Overall it was always the outdoors, so I just need to pick activities that everyone can do.
Great ideas!
It's ok if its for you and not the family or her. This is about having a fun exciting life. Have your picnic; she'll see.
Shot down! But expected it, so oh well.
Have tickets to baseball this Thursday, and the park has a playground for kids, a train that takes you from one side of the outfield to the other side. I have S that night and extra tickets, so I offered W. She works RIGHT across the street. Nope, said her attention span can't handle it, so I left it at that. She had called about scheduling issues. Accomidated what she needed.
I'll get out and have fun. Have plans Friday with some friends I haven't seen in a long time, they are all about drinking though, so I'm throwing out some other ideas.
Not sure where to begin, but I would really appreciate your thoughts on the matter.
W is defiantly in the throws of a MLC. Everything is new, even the slang. She has dropped one guy for another. The S told me this weekend that he has a new daddy. I’m completely DB’ing with W, but I’m falling apart outside of her presence. I weighed 178 when this started 3 weeks ago and I’m now down to 160. I am working out much more, but I can’t eat, sleep, and fell like crap. That is without the emotions even calculated in. So on that note…
I have two good friends that are attorneys, I have done work for them before and they are great men, both near retirement, very seasoned, and they gave some great advice and I think I might take it. Also to note, I have been conferencing with both of them about my sitch and they agree with the DB’ing and are both big family men, so they don’t want to see this go bad.
The state I live in always for joint filing, I’m sure most do. This works well when the parties agree on everything, which W and I do at this time except for alimony. I’ll get to that. I’m going to fill out the papers but not act yet. Here is why, all she talks about is the D and how she wants it, she has seen an attorney once but backed out. I could work with that, but I can’t work with this new lifestyle. The phone bill came today, and is over $250 and she calls this guy probably 5-10 times a day, not to mention there texts and his return calls. Nobody talks that much without some type of give. I’m not an idiot, but I don’t have any real proof either. I do have proof of the first other guy though, in witnesses, but couldn’t say anything about infidelity.
So I’m going to do 50/50 child custody, legal and physical. I’m going to request shared transportation, she has seen men in another city and I’m not driving to pick up my son an hour each way when I have to. She is going to share in that. I’m already paying child support based of the statute and that is not a problem.
Alimony: I won’t give it to her, and if I have to I’m prepared to lay down a large retainer to fight like hell to not and here is why. First her side, she feels she put me through school, and says I’ll be making a lot more then her and she doesn’t deserve to be left with nothing. Fine that is the statute. Well the facts, right now I make 70% of the income, and she contributes 30%. She works part time, so with a full time job it would be more like 40/60 but I think closer to 45/55. Not to much of a difference. Second, we both went to school at the same time, she did her masters for two years and worked for two years. Well I looked at our old returns and she made X those two years. Unfortunately, like an idiot I never had her take student loans out except for her tuition. I took out all the loans for my tuition and for all of our living expenses. Well after taking the total I owe, minus the tuition, I still took out more loans for living expenses then she did make, three times as much. So I contributed more and I’m paying it back now for who knows how long and with interest. Three, I was coerced to buy this house, I didn’t want to, didn’t feel financially secure enough yet and wanted the market to drop more, this is well known, in fact MIL talked about it with the other day. So now I’m stuck with this large mortgage payment and 3 weeks after we move in she leaves. Fourth, the phone calls to men started prior to her leaving and even though it isn’t grounds for child custody dispute, it is not looked upon highly in my state as leaving for someone else and then asking for alimony. Right now without my money she is in the black, without me paying crap, I’m in the red already. Making it by, by doing odd jobs here and there.
My plan is to right this up, keep DB’ing, if nothing begins to change, or her behaviors continue down the path she has chosen and next time she throws it in my face, I pull them out and tell her what I’ve agreed to. I’ll tell her I love her and that I would do anything for her, but I can’t continue like this when she chooses to live like this. I’ll tell her to have an attorney look them over, with all the facts and numbers included, not going to play games at all. With all the facts she isn’t going to get to far.
Lastly, she is broke even with the little money in the black she has. She can’t afford decent counsel, and if she chooses to come back with guns drawn, I will tell her the consequences of going this route. That everything will be brought out in court, families will see it all. Her family just did this 2 years ago and still isn’t over the court room drama. I’ll tell her that our relationship will most likely as coparents be irreparable and that isn’t far to the child.
If she continues on that path, I already have a deal with someone who I could never afford the retainer, and she is pitbull. Everything will go south from there and it won’t be pretty, but I have nothing to lose. My family knows everything, and hers is in the dark because she is embarrassed. I’ve lost my patience and cool, she is leaving me with no choice. I can’t keep paying for everything while she plays around with other men.
Hey Atlas -- sorry about not getting back to you lately!
Okay, I'm just going into this fresh out of reading your last post and nothing more. I don't know if my thoughts, advice, etc, will be good or not, but I guess it will be my gut 2 cents nonetheless. I hope others like Nomo will stop in and offer theirs.
S told me this weekend that he has a new daddy.
Okay, that just pisses me right the #&%$ off! I'm just wondering where S4 got that notion. Has he been spending that much time with this OM to
consider this dirtbag his daddy, or is this something that W has told him? When my kids are with W, they've been staying at OM's house for a little while now (from what I understand), and they have NEVER put OM in this kind of light. I feel awful for your S right now, because the likelihood of this R with OM lasting is slim to none. He shouldn't be subject to ideas like that unless time has tested the R and shown that it could be there for the long haul. Again, I'm wondering where S4 gets that thought. BTW, how did you respond to that? (((Atlas))) I'm sorry you had to hear that from your S. He's just so innocent, and that makes it so much harder...
I’m completely DB’ing with W, but I’m falling apart outside of her presence. I weighed 178 when this started 3 weeks ago and I’m now down to 160. I am working out much more, but I can’t eat, sleep, and fell like crap. That is without the emotions even calculated in.
I completely understand -- I really do! You are constantly subjected to these awful thoughts and feelings, and they just twist your stomach into knots. It literally makes you queezy. However, I know it is hard to believe that it will get any better right now, esp given the circumstances, but you must trust and know that it will. Who knows when or how, but one day you'll realize that you can and will get through this and be happy again, with or without her. It took me a long time, and several seperate heavy grieving periods spread out a couple months apart from each other, but I finally made it. I know that, no matter what happens, you will survive this and be stronger because of it, and esp because of the way you will have handled it. Whatever you do, just make sure you can live with yourself and sleep well at night.
Okay, now regarding the atty sitch.
I'm going to go out on a limb here, simply because I don't know what seasoned DBers would say to this. I think that having the papers pre-written up is a wise decision at this point. But that is as far as it should go. I wouldn't present them to her, tell her about them, threaten/intimidate her with them, etc, AT ALL until it is absolutely imperative (and if/when that time comes, DEFINITELY don't present them in a threatening or intimidating manner -- just do so matter-of-factly and in a calm and collected demeanor). I think you've made a decent case for why you believe what you do regarding what should happen in the case a D is filed.
My plan is to right this up, keep DB’ing, if nothing begins to change, or her behaviors continue down the path she has chosen and next time she throws it in my face, I pull them out and tell her what I’ve agreed to.
I'm glad you have decided to keep DBing in light of recent events and the current sitch. However, make sure you really set a strong breaking point FOR YOU for when you will have no choice but to present her with the papers. I say this because once you present her with this write-up, it is difficult to predict in what direction this thing will go. You need to be 100% sure that you are ready to proceed with a D if that is what W responds with. I know you're not filing, but you're definitely holding the ball out to her and saying, "Here you go -- Take the ball and shoot it!" Can you live with taking the action that may deliver this message and cause her to follow through? Again, I think it is a smart thing to have it all written up, but personally I might really wait until
she files. I don't see how it could harm your sitch to wait until then. Of course, this is just me personally. I'd like to hear from others on this.
I’ve lost my patience and cool, she is leaving me with no choice. I can’t keep paying for everything while she plays around with other men.
I hear you, Atlas. It is a tough position to be in, and she shouldn't expect you to. Maybe now is the time to set a boundary on what you are willing to help her with (i.e. things that affect your S4). Brainstorm on what these types of things will be, jot them down, and maybe the next time she makes ugly, throws something in your face, etc, you can present her with this (vs. proposed D papers). Again, if you do this you should do so in a calm and collected demeanor, and show her that you are being adult about this and that this is what you feel is necessary in regard to your best interests. No matter what kind of alien spew she projects toward you, remain steady, unphased, and consistent with your feelings regarding what is in your best interests. Show her a man who is strong and who is being guided by reason vs. emotion (ever read Thomas Paine's "The Age of Reason"?).
"And that's all I've got ta say about THAT." --
Forrest GumpSeriously though, I hope that helps, my friend. I'm really sorry for where you're at and how you're feeling. You will have better and brighter days!
GD
Atlas,
Wanted to respond, but couldn't think of anything constructive to add. GD has some excellent points.
I'll say it, because you didn't, but you're wife is behaving like an immature child. Selfish and uncaring. Only someone totally self-absorbed at the moment would have their four year old call another man daddy after 3 weeks (or whatever the short time period is).
I salute you in keeping up the DBing. Right now, as I believe Nomo, Gnomes, Nomes, er, Captain Nomo, said, you need to focus on doing good things for you that make you feel good.
The other thing, and it's early so GD may have addressed this, is to start making damn sure that you S is safe. I'm sure you know this, and I don't have any practical advice at the moment, but making sure he's OK is goal number 1 right now for you, because it isn't for your W.
Not trying to be negative, but, damn, I was pissed off for you after I read this last night. And still pissed off for you now.
Hang tight and keep the faith,
BD
The S thing about stopped be dead in my tracks, we were getting out of the car to do some shopping. What do you say to a 2 year old. He had been saying Atlas, Atlas, he does this sometimes. I turned to him and said, "I'm daddy, you call me daddy." "I nother daddy."
I got him out of the car and sat him on the front seat of the car and got down to his eye level and had a talk about me as his dad, said only nice things about his mother, but this is joke.
I'm just going to be prepared from now on. I know its a control issue, and I'm going to keep DB'ing but I think she is just trying to minimize the damage out the door, by not giving me the truth.
Atlas, you know you're his Daddy in the sense that you love him, care for him, miss him, want to be with him, want to protect him and all those other things that make up YOUR understanding of the word Daddy.
To him, at his age, Daddy is just a term used for another male. Kids at school get all embarassed when they call the teacher Mum or Dad. They forget themselves to them it's just a name.
It's important that you don't forget who you are. Of course you want to be called Daddy but don't let your boy derail you - he doesn't mean it.
Per Ardua friend
Steve
I fully understand to him it is just a term, but what it does tell me is that someone is there. I don't think my W would ever teach him to call someone that. Everything is a label at that age, we spent 30 minutes last night learning about thumbs, finders and the whole hand. He is a great little boy.
Well I filled out all the paper work and split everything 50/50 as she wants. She will not like it. I'm going to sit on it for a while and think. Just lay low and have some fun with friends this coming weekend. I do have to say for the first time in over a month I really slept, had some breakfast and overall feel calm and relaxed. I'm sure its due to a misguided perception of control.
Atlas:
I would really sit on the papers until you know for sure it is what you want. I would not try and use them to get a reaction or scare her straight or anything else like that. I think that if you are serious about D, then by all means go for it. But until you are, I would not do anything with the papers. I believe there are several people (LBSs) on here that filed for D and regretted doing so after. Just my .02.
Thanks stewart,
I agree, i'm not going to use them as a manipulation tool. I'll know when I have hit my point and then I will file. That is it.
On to a DB'ing moment, I really think my new stance has really given my "As if" a whole new jumpstart. W called at 9:00 am, can't believe she is up!! to say how sweet I am. She is slammed at work and last night I text'ed her and asked if she needed anything. She said no but thanks. So then she proceeds to talk to me like nothing is going on, work sucks, this and that. Asks if I can watch S this Monday, say that I will. What is she doing all the time? I'm going to file for full custody if I'm watching him all the time. Sorry side note. Then is her sincere tone she asks if i'm all right, said just fine.
So I said I had to get back to work, and that I would see her tonight. Maybe me knowing that I have the papers and just have to go see the clerk is enough to prop me up to DB correctly and not let things get to me.
I think after this weekend the smokes will be put down, so watch out, think I'm pissed now, oh we have only begun.
Well the day has been pretty uneventful since the call at 9am. S and I are having a good time, he loves playing baseball in the backyard.
I am meeting a friend for a quick drink just down the street, so after W picks up S tonight I'm heading out for an hour or so. Nothing big, he is studying hard and doesn't have a lot of time.
I really got a positive out of the text I sent last night, I know it is chasing and contacting her, but to get a call this morning early about how sweet I am for doing that, hmmm. Maybe have to try that again.
S and I are going to a baseball game tomorrow night, I'm excited, his first game. I plan on draping that kid in goodies, out to be a good time.
Well things are defiantly slowing down, and the dust seems to be settling at least in my mind. So a little journaling is appropriate.
Wednesday night was really stressful for W at work, she had worried about it all day. I sent her a text that evening saying I hope work was going well. Today I get a call where W tells me how sweet I am. Yippy!! Still is making my day.
Although I got this call everything seems like all business. I think I through her for a loop today, I was taking the S to a ballgame tonight. So I called my W at lunch and said I would like to keep S tonight and bring him back in the morning, that way she could go out and do what she wanted to do and S and I wouldn’t have to worry about how late we were out.
She didn’t even acknowledge it at first, she asked what I did last night. When she showed up, I was going to meet a friend for a quick drink, but I was all decked out. I told her I was just going out. She asked with whom, told her some friends. She sounded pretty down, I felt bad but she is out every chance she gets. Some double standard.
Well then I said alright you have a fun night tonight, I’ll see you tomorrow. Don’t know if I am playing to many games. But I am out having fun. Also, make my night, it’s college night at the game and a whole entire sorority shows up right next to me. Had some good conversation, but that was all. Sure helps when the S is a ladies man.
Well the phone bill arrived and I shouldn’t but I couldn’t help it. Noticed there are now no calls to guys. Good thing. Also I noticed, I’ve been keeping a very detailed journal to figure out what works and doesn’t. Well W calls her one sister when she calls and compliments, or I am nice. When it is just business or no real positive just neutral or nasty or her part, she calls the other SIL or the same friend. Seems to show a certain support coming from certain directions.
This is sad but also sort of funny, W meet the second guy about 2 weeks ago. Everything changed, new clothes, music, attitude, slang, everything. Well early this week all the sudden back to herself. The calls from him ended earlier this week. This really helped me out as well, since now all men are pigs. Thanks OM for really helping my cause. I know that if I’m the rock and crap keep happening to her out in the big bad world, she will turn this way.
All I can say at this point, is I’m going to keep doing what I’m doing for now. Seems to get some good responses here and there, its just slow and I don’t like watching her hurt, wish I could comfort her, but I have to wait. Also S tells me tonight, after I we were talking about it being dark, “Mommy cries at night.” Poor kid, watching all this happen. Just stuck to the same plan, Mommy is a good mom and loves you, next time hug her and say I love you.
He loved the game, sat through the 5th inning, and loved it. He was just glued to the game. Got him the batting helmet, finger, the ball and bat. He is in there sleeping with all of them. Came within about 10 feet of a foul, that would have just been the cherry on top for him.
Atlas,
Sounds like things are trending back up. I normally wouldn't recommend this, but maybe hang onto those smokes so you don't snap at the W. Only sort of kidding.
I know this is tough for your son, but my parents split when I was a little younger than yours. I'm sure it was tough at the time, but I don't remember anything from that time. Maybe just a thought to help see you through.
My fingers are crossed for you that you are the third and final guy.
BD
Heimlich,
Thanks for the advice with the S. I don't take too much of it to heart, basically if I asked him if he meet bigbird today, he would probably say yes. He has his nights, sometimes W says crying for me, sometimes he is crying for her. Sad defiently, but I'm doing all I can to keep up the DB'ing.
I wanted to add something about the 180. It is now 4th time I have read that section through. Have I been mistaken or what, I thought it meant to do the opposite according to the sitch. But, I need to do the opposite of what got me here. I have been reading the journal a lot and find that when I am there for her, she responds well, when I am busy or distant she turns to other sources. This is one of her largest complaints. So I have to not put a timeline on this, as in pre and post seperation. This includes pre as well when analyzing the 180 choices. So I cancelled, well W thinks, a weekend trip this weekend. I was heading out with the guys, but one had a bad dirt bike accident and is out of commission. So the weekend is cancelled, but I played it off as if I wanted to be here and with S, she was pleased. I don't want to be door mate, but I really think that if I let her run, keep her out of my mind, and when she does call, I can help or do what she needs, she really turns. At this point I'm willing to do anything to see the positives and I just want things to work.
The really amazing part about DB'ing is that is isn't so much you see who your friends are, but you see which one's support or think clearly about what your saying. My sister is amazing at analyzing this and great support and help, my parents are nuts and basically give the worst advice. I have one friend who is going through a D and I hate to say this, but it is one that needs to happen. There is no one that thinks diffrently on this, but he doesn't get it, trying to avoid him because it doesn't help, have told him to support, but he still doesn't get it. Sort of hard when you have known the guy since kids, but I can't have any negativity in my life right now.
Well tomorrow should be fun, it is the classic art stroll. Not really an art person, but have a lot of artist friends, and the people watching is worth all of it. Plus they end up completely wasted and some fun stuff will happen. Later everyone is going to a friends just down the street, so it will be a good night, I'm excited.
Dropped S off. Got him some breakfast and W her coffee. She said thanks. S walked in with all his baseball game fanfare. I noticed, well it placed on the counter all alone right towards me as I walked in, a post note. It read "I meet you last night..." didn't see the rest and pretended not to notice. Never looked at it again. Even with that I think it was a positive experiance.
W said thanks for the coffee, and said she wished I could stick around for a while. Had to get to work. Not sure when it happened but we were sitting on the couch and I was playing with S, she sort of nudged me with her foot and just instinctively picked it up and started the foot rub. When I got up, she gave out a whiny, "No, don't go!"
Hard to say, I'm being 180 diffrent then what I think she would expect out of me right now. But I also think I'm letting her have her cake and eat it too. I just get huge steps like that though, when I'm there for her. When I ignore the calls and such, it just turns into a backstep. I don't want to answer the phone every time she calls, or be there every part of the day while she is out at the bars every night.
I guess I keep doing what I am doing, and the positive steps are positive. I'll give this more time, but if the positives don't become greater ones in a few weeks, I'll have to throw in a change up or something. Plenty of time to think about that though.
Almost a whole week without D talk. Yaaa! Almost a whole week without any real talk! Boooo! Just making the best of the little amount of time that she will give me. Also, I offered W to come to the game, and I read in someone elses post how that puts the WAW in such a bad position. They don't feel like going, and then they are put in a place of being the bad person again and saying no. So, I'll keep my trap shut about invites.
W also mentioned that she may go up to the house today to do some work. That is good, hope she feels comfortable going there and being there.
Well W just called and asked if I would switch next weekend for Friday with the S instead of Saturday. Said sure, no problem. Then she tosses out that she has a dinner date she doesn't want to miss.
Well we did have an agreement that no dating during the seperation, but I have seen how that is going. The other thing is she said with a co-worker. I don't know the people at here work very well, but the ones I do I'm not worried about. Unless it is with a Cop or one of her bosses, speaking of which she has talked about one of her bosses pretty affectionately before. Hmmm,
Can't let my mind run away with this. I'm really getting tire of her games though, and I'm not sure how much longer I really want to save this marriage with this kind of stuff being thrown in my face.
I just went through five days of deciding to work on this, now I'm right back to unsure. Sad part is that I would probably come out pretty clean from the D financially, I'm just really thinking of moving on.
Hey Atlas,
I just went through five days of deciding to work on this, now I'm right back to unsure. Sad part is that I would probably come out pretty clean from the D financially, I'm just really thinking of moving on.
I hear you, bro, and it is completely understandable. The WASs love to check out the picnic and then dart back into the castle. They take a step forward, then a step back, and this is what your sitch does too. She's still lost and unsure about what she wants to do. The only thing you can do is show her why she would be better off with you and that you are going to be okay and happy, with or without her. We all have to draw a line as to when we will have had enough and decide to throw in the towel. Sometimes that line moves, but only you know when it can't be drawn any farther back. I feel for you a lot right now, Atlas -- W is making horrible decisions, and whether or not this dinner date is with a guy or girl, what the intentions are, etc, the fact of the matter is she didn't have to tell you she had a dinner date and yet she did. She's testing your boundaries IMO (specifically the one about no dating while separated), and also testing your reactions to see if she can get a rise out of you. They expect us LBSs to respond in certain ways to negative things, and when we don't they get frustrated because it is difficult for them to make more justifications for why they should leave us.
I support you either way, Atlas. Make sure that the choice you make is something you can always live with. Can't say that one enough.
GD
She's testing your boundaries IMO (specifically the one about no dating while separated), and also testing your reactions to see if she can get a rise out of you.
This is what mom told me that my W is doing to me, pushing my buttons to see if I'll blow up. She keeps bringing up things I did almost 7 years ago because I haven't given her any reason presently to justify her actions.
Good Dustin! Eventually, she'll tire of bringing up old garbage. She's doing it to justify her reason to leave you. If there is nothing presently that can do this, then the past is what they resort to. If you keep DBing, listening and validating, you'll take out the wind in her sails and she'll be left sputtering with nothing else to go on. That's when reality sets in and the seeds of doubt finally begin sprouting...
Atlas,
Both GD and Dustin beat me to the punch. Sounds to me like what you're doing is really starting to have an impact on your W.
BD
gd, dustin and heimlich,
thanks and you guys are right, she is testing, unfortunetly i failed it big time yesterday.
sorry righ shift key is broke, no caps.
my boss is going through the same thing with his w, turned him onto db'ing and he is reading. luckily his sitch isn't all lost, she wants things to work, 3 kids, but he found a few ea online. but they are doing well, he just feel insecure. well he was there when she called and asked what happened. told him, and he says you can't think the rest of the day, and we just finished a big project so he sends to the weekend early.
i meet a friend at a pub, and had a late lunch. he had some great advice. no matter what i have to get her to agree to file mutually, hammer out the details and the things we can't agree on we take to a mediator. well i was planning on hanging with him for the evening and some other friends. he had to take off to a family dinner for a couple and he drops me at his house. well i'm already drunk and shouldn't have been.
i sit for a few more hours and then make the mistake. i call her, we get into it, we havn't argued or fought since she left. we have talked a lot, but not fought. i basically tell her i'm done, i'm not living like this and i am filing. i want out and she can go live her life. she starts asking about s and i tell her that i'm seeking 50/50 legal and physical. she losses it, and asks me if that is so i don't have to pay child support. i couldn't believe it, i'm yelling back that he is my s too and i have a right to see him and be with him.
then she reminds me that she has a lawyer, and she will fight me for s. i try to tell her that she can fight all she wants but in the end it will be money out the door because i will get equal split on him. so we continue to argue. finally i can't take it and end the conversation. i call my sis to come pick me up i'm in no condition to drive. w calls back and starts in on me again. wants to know about all the terms, i basically lay it out for her, that i'm giving her half on everything and no matter how much she spends on a lawyer, in the end the court will split it all, sure i'll have some child support and alimony, but i'll push for a one time payment on the alimony and the child support is so small per month i'll per her yearly.
go home, sis is worried about me but i tell her i'll be fine. i pass out at 8pm. great drinker, huh?
next morning is the s drop off, not sure how to handle this. were do you start, say sorry, won't work. well w pulls up and i basically give it a good swallow. w asks if we can talk.
w says, "i don't want you to worry about last night, you were drunk and angry and i understand that you didn't mean the things you were saying. i don't want to you apologize but i want you to control your drinking or stop and get help." w then proceeds to tell me that she wanted to talk to me this weekend about working things out, but after this episode she can't do it right now. she grabs my hand and tells me i'm a great dad, that she loves me, and that she couldn't have a better daddy for her s. i'm so floored at this point, think i'm being db'ed.
well she tells me that if i want to go to an aa meeting tonight that she will come watch s and then we could spend the evening together. i need to do it so i'm more than happy to.
w then tells me about all the guys, lays everything out. nothing physical has happened, both tried and so she no longer sees them. she says she goes out when she can, but its only with girls and she hasn't done anything that would destroy or marriage. that i just need to give her space and let things work themselves out. she then tells me her dinner date next friday is with her co-worker. he is 65 and dying, poor guy can't quit smoking and has the oxygen tank. i asked why then didn't she just say that. she admits to make me upset, she apologizes for it and says that she has made a decision to not push my buttons any more or take any verbal jabs. thank you. not sure how much i can believe but i have to believe if i'm going to make this work. she was curious why all the sudden my mind was changed and i wanted out. told her i just couldn't keep doing this, at least not like this. she said she wanted me to wait and think about things first. give it time and see.
then she initiates a real hug, held me for a some time. that was really nice. haven't felt her thay physically close in a long time.
well she never showed tonight, called and she had changed her tunr. says we are following the same paterns, alcohol, verbal abuse and then rescueing. she asked if i was still going, i didn't have a sitter, so i told her i was planning on the morning for a meeting. i told her thanks for offering, and not to worry about me or tonight. was really positive and by the end of the call, she was really nice and laughed at a few things.
the crappy part is for the first time, since she left, i've really been careful with the booz, but last night was a bender and not good. i know i need help though and for the sake of myself, i'm going to do it.
waht happened wasn't good, but i think in a way it really opened her eyes, that for one, i'm not going to leave her high and dry in the divorce, but half of nothing is well nothing. she must have talked to someone last night that knows the d code, because she said she realized that she was going to have to work full time, s would be in day care, and things would not be easy and she didn't want that. two, i think she is seeing that eventually i'm going to have enough and push for this, i'm not saying anything to her, but i'm going to wait. i'm back in my mind set that i can't file, i'll never be able to live with myself. i love her too much and it will kill me.
i don't want her to come home, because life will be hard now. i don't want her to come her just for s. i want her to be here because she loves me and wants it. i love her and will do anything to show her this. so sober me from now on. keep up the changes, and avoid like hell the backsteps.
Hey Atlas,
Bummer on the setback. It's definitely frustrating to hear that progress was being made and that W was wanting to discuss working things out this weekend, but now that is back on the backburner. It's even more frustrating because we never know when that consideration is taking place. However, this is why we are to keep up our efforts, even (and esp) when we feel like it is in vain. This new sitch of yours reminds me of one from DR where a woman states that after she and her H reconciled, her H told her he was considering coming back at one point until she did something (can't remember what) to push him away again. Because of that, it took them much longer to work things out. I know that the alcohol played a huge role in what happened this weekend, but you can't play the cards you played last night until you are 100% sure it's time to throw in the towel. I'm glad you're going to get some help on the drinking. It sounds like this will be important not only for you, but for your your W and M.
It sounds like W is coming clean about some things, like trying to push your buttons with the "date" sitch and whatnot. This is helpful, because it shows a more open and honest line of communication. Walls are breaking down, and that is a very good thing.
then she initiates a real hug, held me for a some time. that was really nice. haven't felt her thay physically close in a long time.
Awesome!!!
i don't want her to come home, because life will be hard now. i don't want her to come her just for s. i want her to be here because she loves me and wants it. i love her and will do anything to show her this. so sober me from now on. keep up the changes, and avoid like hell the backsteps.
I am the same way, bro. I didn't want W to come back simply because life would be tough if she didn't -- that is part of the reason why I've decided to set her up to be comfortable post-D. I also didn't want her to come back because of how the split would affect the kids. I wanted her to come back because she loved me and wanted to be a family because of this. If they ever came back for any other reason, the M could never be at the level of love that it should be and it there would be a greater chance of just going down the same road at a later stage in the game. I'm glad you've decided to reinvest in your resolve to do whatever it takes to save your M, because that is what I believe DBing is all about.
Stay focused and sober, my friend -- show W with your actions that this is something you're going to do no matter what the outcome of your M. Show her you're also doing this for you and the kids.
Good luck!
GD
gd,
thanks for the support, it means a lot. w tone towards me defiently has been changing and outside of this weekend we have not discussed the d or r/m for a while. just little things, and the s.
i forgot to add, i found a home for the dog. w was sad, but said it was the right thing to do. i hope she didn't see it as me cleaning up after she left, but i couldn't leave that dog outside all day and feel good about it.
another thing, w brough up the future the other day. s is 2, and she wanted to talk about when he turns 16 and a car. it was pretty funny, and in her little talk i was there in the future. so she is making plans for handling a car with the s, hmmm, hope he isn't driving right now, little dangerous. just thought the future talk was good, although a little far out there.
I'm glad you've decided to reinvest in your resolve to do whatever it takes to save your M, because that is what I believe DBing is all about.
I think I need to clarify that DBing is about doing "whatever it takes" to save one's M as long as it doesn't jeopardize the kind of person you want to be for you and your kids.
i have a question about the s, i'm pretty lost here.
w keeps bringing up the fact that she wants sole custody and s can see me here and there. if i can't work things out with her, then so be it, but i can't be without my s. he truly is little bud, and we do everything together. already asked to go to another baseball game, so hopefully this week.
through our talks about d, i have told w i want s 50/50, but will give her final say. or state has some final say thing, not sure about others. w is in shock, she thinks it is so i don't have to pay child support. i'll still have to, but it will be hardly any, but that is not the point, nor do i care. i want time with my s. i want him in my house all the time, but i'm real about it also. he honestly is my whole life. how can she possibly think that i wouldn't want him? i guess she really thinks highly of me right now.
i have to say, and i'm bragging, his father isn't the best looking man, but he defiently got his mothers genetics, he is cuttest two year old in the world.
i wasn't clear enough, sorry.
how can she think i would just give him up, or not want him or to spend time with him?
i know the answer, but i just can't seem to get it wrapped around this brain. she is lost, confused and the alien. i just thought she would at least get this.
Ok. If she believes you don't want him (and I'm not sure that's the case - but who knows what she believes), then she is confused. Ignore her mental state on this one - stand your ground, calmly. You want to share or have joint custody of your child. That is in his best interest, and you intend to be a part of his life.
Nomo
Ok, so just had a great convo with the W. She contacted me at 9am which is her early time, so at least she is thinking of me when she gets up.
Tomorrow is a state holiday, and W has a family BBQ, she wants to take S and asked if it was OK. I said sure not a problem. Then she has been talking about a washer/dryer for her place for some time. I happen to come across a super cheap deal at work and thought I would help her out. I know nothing says love like here is a gift to help further cement your new life without me, but I want to try and take a stab and service as her love language. So i bought them, and asked her on the phone, that i thought I could get her a washer/dryer set, but I didn't want to intrude if that would be a problem. W was really excited, "you would do that for me?" told her i would love to do that for her. She said thanks, and we worked out a plan, so i will take them over tonight and hook them up. Hopefully, I get to hang out with her tonight since we both don't have work tommorrow. Act and expect positive and get positive results.
Well the next agenda on the call was what I and S would do that morning. I shouldn't have streched my luck, but it paid off. I said I was taking him to the parade, and asked if she would like to go. She said yes and thought it would be exciting. I just hope she doesn't back out, she has before.
So I have time with her tonight, at least until the handy man job is done. Then I get them all morning tomorrow, I'm pretty up right now.
I guess I better sit down and go through some responses and scenerios that may come up. Make sure I'm ready and in the right frame of mind. Better get some new clothes for tomorrow to! Always shine.
Good talks with W, Atlas -- sounds like it all went very well, and the risk at pursuing in regard to the parade seems to have paid off too. Great to see you in a PSM (positive state of mind)! Hope the evening and coming morning work out well!
GD
well things went pretty positive today, but i swear she is practicing db'ing, haha.
so apparently there was a communication error on where we would meet for me to pick up s after work. i meet up with her and she seemed really pulled back. but right after she handed s to me, she grabbed me and gave her sorry hug, head into my chest and i kissed the top of her head. we went our seperate ways.
so i went and got the washer/dryer. delivered them to her place. got the washer set up but i need a vent and a cord change on the dryer.
then we talked about our r. not once did she say divorce or anything that relates. she talked alot about things she was upset with me for, especially last friday. i'll pay for that for a while. totally understandable as well.
she talked about the future with both of us, her dad is coming into town and wanted me to do someting with all of them. told her we could throw a bbq at the house for everyone. that will be tough cornered by all the inlaws, but it has to happen some time. think it is next month. wants to go to the parade still and said she was excited.
then she says that she has noticed the changes and she is perplexed. i asked how so, well now your the man i always knew you could be and that i wanted, but i can't figure it out. i used what someone else said on there thread, thank you for noticing and i understand that your skeptical but i'm going to keep up my changes to continue to change my life for the best.
then the s started acting up, so i ran to get some oj and other supplies. she thanked me. then she ended the night.
overall it was very productive, and it was a good time.
oh i forgot,
my sil, not w's, has been talking to w. w told her that she is one minute thinking divorce, but another she thinks she is destroying the family and wants to come home. she said she is sad and wants to work things out, but not sure where to start and what to do.
i can't believe she said these things to her, she had to know that my brothers w would tell me. not sure, w is pretty trusting. so i'll keep my mouth shut for now. but i think that is a great sign.
whoah, good signs. Stay the course!
Awesome, Atlas, might be that the phone call on Friday got the ball moving for you. Still, sounds like you ought to stay away from the beer for a bit.
I'm pulling for you. As you know, though, be prepared for the inevitable pull back from you W.
BD
hey everyone thanks for the support,
well it defiently started to slide back today. the parade was great but she did snap at me once about getting up to go smoke, after she just did like 30 minutes earlier. i just sat there and looked at her, no face though just expressionless. she caught herself and apologized, really caught me though, i haven't seen behavior like that in ages, even through all of this. but really the parade was very positive, except for that.
we decided to go get some lunch, and things were going well, laughing, she been touching me, even snuggled up for a minute. so on the long walk back to the car, thought i would try the hand hold. i seriously think i just about got slapped, oh she was pissed. it was rather funny. so lunch was a real joy, two people saying pretty much nothing watching the boy throw his food.
so then she realizes that she needs her dryer still hooked up. suddenly she is sunshine again. so i go back to her place, and she wants to talk. tells me that she really enjoyed the day and wants more family activities. sounds great. then she tosses in, that even if the d goes through she still wants family time. hmm, didn't say anything, but i look at it like this, we d, we're not a family. maybe just a diffrent kind, but i'm not spending my time with her.
so other then that, the talk went well. i had to run to 2 hardware stores to get the right plug. got it working, and her new friend comes by. we meet, she seems nice, is a bombshell. well we are getting along great, talking, laughing, she asks me about 2 guys she is dating. so after 30 minutes i take off.
w calls later, and says you won't believe this, but her new friend said i was cute and wanted my number. jokingly i say back, well she knows a good one when she sees him, why don't you give me her number. w snaps back, "your mine!" haha, a little jealosy may help. probably not though.
w tried to ask a lot of questions about what i was doing tonight, and i kept it at just going out. so she calls later, and tells me that she is heading to her families bbq, that her and s will be back around 9, and have a good time tonight. not sure what that was about, but she hasn't let me in on her whereabouts for some time.
I think she is getting interested again, good for you!
well last night while out with friends at dinner w calls. i don't answer finally after the fourth call in a row, i answer. she is so happy and bubbly, w says "hey what are you doing?" tell her that i'm out with friends. she says well s and i are almost home. i'm thinking she is going to ask to see me, all upbeat. then she asks if i can come home. feel for it. said sure. w says "good, because sil is in town and i want to go out with her tonight, can you come get s?" she knows this, nothing pisses me off more then the lure invite to get someone to do something. i have a friend who does this all the time, so much so i actually call it doing a friends name. i'm always straighforward with people. tell them i'm going to do x, would you like to go if your not busy.
well i played it down, and said i was downtown and with the festivities going on down there last night, it was going to take like an hour to get home. she said don't worry, that is too late then, have a good time.
actually left after dinner, ruined my night to have a crash that quick on a call.
well went home and in bed early. woke up about an hour ago and missed call and vm. it is w, around 12:15am. she says "hey i wanted to talk to you but your probably sleeping like the rest of the world right now. maybe we can talk tomorrow if you don't mind."
she sounded really down, wish i didn't miss the call. the one good thing is w doesn't really call just for nothing. if she wants to talk we will talk. so i'm hoping this is good and going to think that way, because right now i can't imagine the other way, it will kill me.
i'll post up on what happens.
Atlas,
I hate that manipulative type of invite too. Annoying as all hell. Shouldn't have let it ruin your evening though.
All in all, sounds like your W is making some positive steps to reconnect. Baby steps, followed by a fall on the ass, followed by more babysteps.
And, whatever she says, it won't kill you. Just might feel that way for a few hours (slight attempt at levity there).
Fingers crossed for you,
BD
So so so many positives. The keys for you, IMO, are keep doing what you are doing, be patient, really ignore her pull backs and alien spew, and do no harm to your own cause (like last Fri night).
Nomo
Heimlich and Nomopo,
Thanks for the positive comments. There are a lot of positives right now. Only thing that sucks is the up's are better then ever so the little down's are hurting pretty bad, and I'm trying to not seem anxious but I'm sure it shows.
Well I sent a text to her today to see if she was alright after last night. No response, but then again I just got a new phone and haven't tested the texting capability and there is nothign in the sent box. So like an idiot then I called, and left a VM. I hope the text never went out, this one or the ones yesterday, it will seem desperate. But in the vm, just said I was calling to check on her after last night to make sure she was alright. Left it at that. No return call. She is probably pulling back since she is scared about her feelings changing, that is my guess.
Well my mom has S today for a few hours prior to me heading home. My mom called to say that S is just filthy and hasn't eaten, W told her that. This is happening a couple of times a week now, W is the best mother and its like someone switched the light off in her head or something. I'm just lost how she thinks a 2 year old can go from 8am to 2:30pm without food.
Guess that explains why I have given away all our dogs. She always thought they were for fun, but never cleaned up after or took care of them. Low blow, shouldn't say it.
Oh, this last weekend I found a home for the lab. Lucky too, she wan't a puppy anymore but still played like one. Just wasnt' right to leave her out there.
Well, I'll see what happens tonight when she comes and gets S. Ought to be interesting.
Speak of the devil and wham he appears!
W just called, she is cracking again. I don't mean as in a good way. Said that she can't file, and doesn't think she wants to file. Didn't say anything about working it out though. Said she now thinks she is ruining my, s's and her life. She said that while s seems happy with all the extra attention, she knows his pain from this is going to run deep and it his killing her. Told me that she has so many personal issues, and that she is crazy and I should file and get as far away from her as possible.
Calmed her down, she wants to talk after work. So might be a long night.
Of course that is cracking in a good way. You trying to drive yourself crazy?
I guess I'm the pessimist when it comes to this. I'm usually the "it's all going to work itself out" kind of guy. But for some reason, I'm scared to death over this. I guess because I have never had this much on the table before.
Alright, I need to work out a plan of attack. Have to first have the PMA, picture of what it would look like if it went great. "No matter what rules", no yelling, confrontation, name calling, none of the four apocalyptic horsemen. Reread the IMAGO stuff, my DB outlines and notes, and keep asking myself if what I'm about to say or do going to get me closer to my goal?
I'll have to play this part by ear, but I have been working on an apology, it's not fully preped, things haven't been to where I wanted them so that I felt it was time. Well it might be time, so I better get some notes on that for review.
Reread my post before last to you and see if those 4 or 5 keys are clear for you. Do you know what I'm saying? To me that's all you have to. You are (or more accurately, your is) well on the way.
nomo,
i got the keys:
quoting nomo: keep doing what you are doing, be patient, really ignore her pull backs and alien spew, and do no harm to your own cause (like last Fri night).
what i'm doing? be kind, responsive, helpful, there for her, IMAGO when she talks and just listen.
being patient? ha, my downfall, at work, home and with friends. really working on this. have to just hang in there and keep a good pma.
Ignoring the pull backs and the alien spew? this is tough, but in the last week i'm really learning to do this because her positives are coming closer in time after a pull back. part of the patient issue, but it sure makes it easier.
doing no harm to my own cause? learning this the hard way, fell down hard last friday but stood up and got right back on the wagon and working hard. no blow up's, won't yell, can't do that ever again. no blaming, i understand her actions now after reviewing my past self. still trying to lose that guy, but learning to count to ten in a lot of diffrent ways.
my plan tonight, follow her lead. may try my apology if it is the right time. don't want to do that when it will just upset her more. expect anything, she doesn't show and tells me take a hike, to that she is madly in love with me and wants to come home. ready for the whole spectrum.
hopefully i have something great to post soon, or at least a large baby step, but being realistic.
Atlas,
Your methodical review is great. Taking a moment to stop feeling and start thinking is a great way to get composed before meeting/talking. I'm just learning to journal and review. Sounds like you have a goood approach. Sh*t happens and you gotta deal with that in some remote place away from the W and S. It sux, I know!! It really seems like you are attacking this in a positive way. That is a testament to your character. Walk tall knowing that you are conducting yourself in such a manner. Those without end without. I'm finding it's easier saidn then done! Just because you know how to act, doesn't mean you won't fly off the handle. Keep your focus, I beleive it's working.
so the w came by and we talked. Or I guess with the amount of time I would call it a chat. Probably lasted a total of 25 minutes, and she is obviously confused and upset.
Well she came in had a little chit chat, and then she broke in with how she is so confused and her whole life is in shambles. She said she has made new friends but they don’t understand or care, they are all pretty young, never married and she feels more experienced relationship wise and old. Said her family has pretty much quit listening and doesn’t want a lot to do with the whole divorce. She mentioned that at the family bbq yesterday, she was taking advice from her step sis, who had been through two divorces. She told w, that you can forget him being nice like he is, once you file you better don the bullet proof vest, because it only goes south. Ya great person to take advice from. She has cheated on both her husbands, and this last time everyone says it’s a mistake. Not hard to see, family witnessed a huge blow out with her new man calling her a witch with the b. last guy was an amazing guy, great father, she is a self sabotager.
I reassured her that I would be her friend and that I was here for her. She asked how the changes were going. Said she noticed again, and she said she thinks they are sticking, based off what I said last time. I told her that I’m finding out who I am and learning a lot.
She then started saying she was just too confused, and she didn’t think she could her son and me like she is doing, but the only way to stop it is to file for divorce. She then went on saying that her childhood was taken from her, her parents d ruined her, that she has treated herself horrible and I screwed her too.
W then said she wants to be here, but she just doesn’t know how to make it happen in her mind. I just supported and kept my mouth shut, she said she feels like the only person her for her now is me, but she can’t rely on me. She said she needs more space and time.
Then she called it quits and said she was going home to sleep. Wanted her to stay, pursued, dumb, but I told her she could hang out and we could stop talking about it. She said she couldn’t she had to sleep.
Another odd thing happened last night. I found some bottle caps in my backyard today, sort of odd. But the lady down the street, hadn’t met her yet, came by. She heard something going on last night around 2am, and there was a white Mercedes parked down the street, but these guys were in my backyard she said. I found the gate open today as well. As soon as she approached the car the all took off. The only thing I can think is some idiots looking for easy theft items. Just odd after the picture taker, also a nice car.
dlt1,
thanks, never lost my cool. if i don't drink i actually have no problem with that. only when i drink. hmmm, maybe a pattern.
well good night all, i love her, i have to tell someone. she is a princess and i cried after she left. not for myself, the selfpity is leaving, but for her. she is so confused and hurt and i'm such a big part of that. seems like her whole world is coming down on her at once, all i want to do is help.
so the w came by and we talked. Or I guess with the amount of time I would call it a chat. Probably lasted a total of 25 minutes, and she is obviously confused and upset.
Well she came in had a little chit chat, and then she broke in with how she is so confused and her whole life is in shambles. She said she has made new friends but they don’t understand or care, they are all pretty young, never married and she feels more experienced relationship wise and old. Said her family has pretty much quit listening and doesn’t want a lot to do with the whole divorce. She mentioned that at the family bbq yesterday, she was taking advice from her step sis, who had been through two divorces. She told w, that you can forget him being nice like he is, once you file you better don the bullet proof vest, because it only goes south. Ya great person to take advice from. She has cheated on both her husbands, and this last time everyone says it’s a mistake. Not hard to see, family witnessed a huge blow out with her new man calling her a witch with the b. last guy was an amazing guy, great father, she is a self sabotager.
I reassured her that I would be her friend and that I was here for her. She asked how the changes were going. Said she noticed again, and she said she thinks they are sticking, based off what I said last time. I told her that I’m finding out who I am and learning a lot.
She then started saying she was just too confused, and she didn’t think she could her son and me like she is doing, but the only way to stop it is to file for divorce. She then went on saying that her childhood was taken from her, her parents d ruined her, that she has treated herself horrible and I screwed her too.
W then said she wants to be here, but she just doesn’t know how to make it happen in her mind. I just supported and kept my mouth shut, she said she feels like the only person her for her now is me, but she can’t rely on me. She said she needs more space and time.
Then she called it quits and said she was going home to sleep. Wanted her to stay, pursued, dumb, but I told her she could hang out and we could stop talking about it. She said she couldn’t she had to sleep.
Another odd thing happened last night. I found some bottle caps in my backyard today, sort of odd. But the lady down the street, hadn’t met her yet, came by. She heard something going on last night around 2am, and there was a white Mercedes parked down the street, but these guys were in my backyard she said. I found the gate open today as well. As soon as she approached the car the all took off. The only thing I can think is some idiots looking for easy theft items. Just odd after the picture taker, also a nice car.
dlt1,
thanks, never lost my cool. if i don't drink i actually have no problem with that. only when i drink. hmmm, maybe a pattern.
well good night all, i love her, i have to tell someone. she is a princess and i cried after she left. not for myself, the selfpity is leaving, but for her. she is so confused and hurt and i'm such a big part of that. seems like her whole world is coming down on her at once, all i want to do is help.
last night a friend came by who is in town for a wedding. we talked for a while, he is going through his own d. seems like everywhere i turn lately, there are a lot of guys doing the same thing. not sure why, but i seem to be the only one working on my sitch. everyone else is dancing around the free life idea.
i can feel myself starting to detach. i think i'm protecting myself from her negative and d comments. i'm pretty conflicted right now in my thought, i think on the one hand she is just steading herself to take flight and on the other i think she is really lost and is starting to see that the grass isn't greener.
another thing i can't shake, i can tell she wants to tell me something and i think she is holding back, afraid that she will hurt me. i'm preparing for the a talk or om scenerio. no matter what i don't think i will lose my cool again, i'm too far from that anymore to even consider.
another thing that really bugs me is that w spends time at a bar that a good friend bartends at. friend is female and her boyfriend are really close to me. but lately they have gotten distant, seems like they are avoiding me. but they are pretty set that i need to move on. don't know if they have seen things at the bar that they can't bring themselves to tell me or not.
mostly i'm just thinking, need to keep rooted in the real. what she keeps saying is she is lost, can't decide, doesn't want to rely on me anymore, but is constantly reaching out for my help. welll on my way to work, will take s to her place and bring her coffee. i have s for the next two nights, so i'm excited. i think we are going to have to hit another baseball game, especially if the weather stays nice.
well good night all, i love her, i have to tell someone. she is a princess and i cried after she left. not for myself, the selfpity is leaving, but for her. she is so confused and hurt and i'm such a big part of that. seems like her whole world is coming down on her at once, all i want to do is help.
Atlas, I know how you feel. I feel the same way. I think what we have is called true love or unconditional love. I am always trying to help my W. I know she is confused and hurting. I am a fixer...so I try to fix things that are broken. This is one thing that I can't fix and it drives me crazy. I guess all that I care about is that she is happy.
The whole break down of love and being in love and attraction just drives me crazy trying to figure it out.
Your W was a product of divorce and she said it ruined her and now the only way not to hurt you or her son is to file for divorce. Doesn't make sense.
My W says strange contradictory stuff also. She said if she could change her feelings she would but how do you do that. I think it takes time. We have to give them time and space to explore and to really collect and examine their feelings and I think ultimately they will work these things out in their head.
Will we still be there is the question? I have sort of disconnected and accepted the sitch also. It is a big step but I think it is one that has to be taken for us to really move on and improve ourselves.
Matt
Guys
That is the hardest thing to really "accept". Time. It takes time. Feelings come back.
I'm with you CVA. Somebody told me when I first came here that time is your best friend and your worst enemy.
Now I know what they were talking about and it's only been 2 months. I mean it's been 2 long months.
Matt
Matt and CVA,
Thanks for the encouragement. The waiting does stink, but I will do that for her. It's really funny, because the biggest change people are noticing is my patience. I'm not a patient person, never have been, always a fixer, doer and a driver.
For the first time ever, I have stopped, slowed down and taken a look at and smelled the roses. This is my life, and it sucked before, no room for love whatsoever. Another thing I noticed, is that now I'm busier then before with work, friends, my S and W. But it has all slowed down, not the slow from this sitch sucks, but the perspective has changed. What is important has changed. With that life has slowed to an easy pace with a good background song.
My mother is just floored, father always said my temper would land me behind bars one day, and now they told me last night that I have either lost it or I'm really doing well at this. Either way they like the new me.
Well who knows, tomorrow may be crazy day!
Dropped S off, didn't say anything about last night. Didn't apologize, nothing! Brought W her coffee, she asked me to sit and threw her foot in my lap. I do have to say this foot rubbing thing is taken me places, especially since I've never been a big foot guy. I might just rub her foot right back into my life, haha. Didn't have long 15 minutes, said I had to go and got the whiney no from her. Feels good to feel wanted. Even though she doesn't say those things, her actions are one and her mouth another.
Baseball tonight, S can't wait.
That is the hardest thing to really "accept". Time. It takes time. Feelings come back.
I oftentimes worry about this. If the W states that she doesn't think she was ever in love with you (not sure my W said this), how likely is it that she can be? I don't know. To try and and put myself in the WAS's shoes, I try to go back to a time when I was dating someone and decided I didn't want to be with them anymore (I have to go back to highschool for this, though, so I'm not sure I can really apply it to adult sitchs). I question if I could be in love with that person today, and I keep getting this "no" answer each time. That's what scares/worries me so much. However, that POV doesn't have any big changes thrown in. Maybe if they were different people, then possibly...
Just getting some thoughts on this out.
GD
GD,
You know I worry about that as well, but not that much. I've always been this firm believer of the soul mate thing. But after reading diffrent books about the evolution of a relationship, I don't buy the I was never in love with you statement, and I have heard it. You don't make a child with someone, and live the life you do for a decade because your confused. It's a defense mechanism, they tell themselves they don't love us, because then it makes their decision easier.
Feelings always follow experiances. I was reading someone success story last night and noticed something. WAW was gone, moved in with OM, but LBH was home DB'ing. Always upbeat, always there. Well OM couldn't take it, became resentfull, defensive and asked too many questions. W analyzed her sitch and realized the H is kind, nice and I do love him, she went home. OM asked what he had done wrong? Everything! Feelings follow experiances.
Atlas
You hit a cord w/ me. Did you know that there are nerves in your feet that stimulate an area of the brain similar to those (close to I guess) that are active during sex!
Keep up the foot rubs. As you can read from my sitch, I am big on rubs as they keep some physical contact going when there otherwise is none. You may be right about rubbing her feet right back into your life!
CVA
Atlas,
Just a quick chime in that I think you've got more positives than negatives going on right now. I'm with you, cultivating patience blows, but, even if we (everyone on this board, I mean)learn nothing else from our experiences, becoming more patient is good regardless of where we end up.
Keep it up. I'd kill to be able to rub on any part of my W right now.
BD
GD,
You know I worry about that as well, but not that much. I've always been this firm believer of the soul mate thing. But after reading diffrent books about the evolution of a relationship, I don't buy the I was never in love with you statement, and I have heard it. You don't make a child with someone, and live the life you do for a decade because your confused. It's a defense mechanism, they tell themselves they don't love us, because then it makes their decision easier.
Amen my brother! I agree with you whole-heartedly.
Alright, lunch was a trip for sure.
My mother calls and is going to luch with W. That is odd, because W says my mother is a big issue. Which she is, grew up the moma's boy. But they are great friends and i called my mother for some coaching.
Well W is looking for the VW dealership, she wants to buy a bug. She can barely afford her apartment. I didn't say a thing and gave her directions to it. She thanked me, and then said not to worry that she was merely entertaining the idea. Hopefully, she will run into some pushy salesmen and see the numbers a flip. So apparently a bug is going to make her life so happy. We had a VW once, and i'm not trying to bring anyones car down, but it was a lemon, and so is her sisters, who has a bug. So give up a toyota with absolutely no problems, runs great for something that she is going to expect me have fixed. Well didn't control, told her where it was, I'll be pissed if she buys this and I get stradled with the debt. I haven't had a car payment in 2 years and I don't want one now. She left me in enough of a finacial mess already.
UGGGGGG!!!
Great job, Atlas! You did the right thing given the circumstances. I was wincing right along with you, bro. I hope she doesn't buy one either!
Man, the things we put ourselves through to save our Ms...
GD
Alright,
She calls back, she wants to buy a Passat, same year as her Camry. 5 year term loan, didn't ask about interest rate. It has 85k miles, Camry has only 60k. I really don't care what she does, her business.
BUT, the state I'm in will divide the debt equitably, and while I feel confident that I wouldn't have to pay for this, since she left a month ago, I will hit the roof if I have to pay for this.
I don't want to do this, but also should I cut off all financial help. I've been paying child support based on sole custody, around $500 a month. No seperation order in place or nothing. Just trying to be the nice guy. I think at this point, I cut off all money, all help, and providing myself. I really feel like we are moving forward, but what do I do.
Another thing, I hate to say this, but I think she is going to force me to file for financial reasons. If I don't I'm going to be bankrupt. What do I do?
Damn. It seems like she may be coming around. How long can you hold out financially? Regarding child support, you've got your boy a lot, what are you paying for? I think it's fair to bring that up with her. Cutting off all financial support just feels wrong to me in your situation, like it would push her away totally. That said, and I might have missed this, are you helping with her regular living expenses? If so, that's nucking futs in my opinion.
Is it to the point where you feel comfortable having that conversation with her -- look, with your spending, I'm going to go bankrupt. To be able to provide for our boy like I want to, I'm going to have to file for D, even though I don't want to.
Beyond that, I got nothing.
BD
Is she just completely irresponsible? My W seems to spend more too in this sitch. Fortunately for me, we have enough to cover. BUt if things were strapped, I would just say, I need to talk to you about this. Again, calmly. Why does it need to go to a D/Bankruptcy discussion. Leave that for later. It can always go there. Logic should actually win here. It is not just her money. You point out she can do what she wants, that's BS when you are not D'd and it comes to money. It is mutual respect for your futures and your boys'.
Not a lot of cushion, just started out of school last year. What I did have has gone into the house. Each month is diffrent, I have a few sources of income and they vary quite a bit, but I only live off the 40 hours a week pay, so I'm used to it.
Financially we are already completely seperated. She took her half of it all and opened accounts the first few days when she left. I think what I will do is refigure the child support, I almost have him more often then she does now. Then I'll just give it to her and when she questions, I'll say I had it refigured and I'm having trouble keeping up on my own end, sorry its all I can afford.
What sucks about the comfort level is a week and half ago, I would have been more than comfortable to have said anything. But with the ball starting to roll, I'm now on the eggshells. Don't want to backfire anything good done as well.
Hey a question for people that are keeping up with me, and thank you by the way.
I'm thinking of signing up with a DB coach and try the 3 session deal. Is there a particular coach that with my circumstances as they are, that you would recommend?
Any advice would be a big help, and thank you in advance.
still hoping for an answer on the db coach. but it may have to wait. i had a pretty big eye opener with ic today.
so therapist didn't focus on me at all, but reviewed some things i said last time about w. started to ask questions and wanted a review of her behavior over the last two weeks. i hate to agree with him but i think he is right on with this.
so when my w left she was suicidal, i had no clue at the time, she told me weeks later. then she had the breakdown at my place and wanted me to take her to an inpatient care facility. then the change in clothes, music and new slang, which has all passed. then her talk about that i'm not he only problem, that she hates her mother and father, mother stole her childhood, etc... then today the car buying thing. which she backed off of and called and apologized for. which i said no need to apologize, it is her car and if she wants to trade it in she can. with her call saying she wants this to work but doesn't know how, feels like she is ruining her, s and my life.
so after all that he thinks she has had an emotional breakdown, duh! he thinks i need to keep doing what i am doing but drop all discussion of r or m for now. he says she needed you and you weren't there and you failed her. so now there is no trust. we talked about how her mother, only family member living here won't talk to her much, her new friends are not good choices and she said they won't listen and don't understand. he said this is going to be tough, but for her mental and physical well being your going to have to be there for her. he said if she starts to talk suicide again i need to get bil down her fast, but he said do this for her, don't talk to him about m/r or anything else. just for her well being.
i really think i agree with him on this. the one good thing is he says when this happens in a marriage it can work out and especially if you don't press and just help her for now. she will wake up one day and realize that the one person there for her is you.
so i'm going to just keep db'ing, really avoid all r talk, possibly even shut it down if she starts. i have to be there for her, every day is a swing for her and is sad. its either a horrible depression, crying, can't take care of s, or its i'm the best and cutest person ever i'm going to buy a car, house, new clothes, etc. he thinks she is trying to surround herself with things that she thinks will make her happey. he said make sure your there for her when she realizes that they don't because he thinks that fall will be worst then the initial blow.
any thoughts?
Hi Atlas,
From what you have described, this analysis of W makes sense. Just as you have been working on you, she needs to work on her. And it sounds like when she really does this, it will be much worse for her than it was for you. Your being her 'rock' I'm sure will pay its dividends in the long run (however long that may be). I agree you should avoid R talk. That's just too much for her. Perhaps when she brings it up, reassure her that you have plenty of time to figure it out. Keep it short.
I feel for you, my W is pretty down as well. Not to this extent, but it hurts knowing she hurts. It will be hard knowing all you can do is listen and be supportive. Keep up the good work!
I agree DLT1.
Atlas,
I think you are doing a really good job and I think one day she will wake up. My W does and says some of the same things and her family life wasn't good either. I told her some time ago that the one person that truely cares for you is the one that you are trying to push away. Probably shouldn't of said it but she she did agree.
Well, hang in there Atlas. Just imagine how well things will be and how well your R will be when she works through all of her issues.
It's going to take TIME though.
Matt
Well I had a friend over last night and we talked about the sitch for some time. Basically, it came down to that he agreed with the my C.
I dropped S off this morning, w was cheerful and again didn't like when I left for work, wanted me to stick around. She seemed really calm and content this morning, I'm happy for her. Didn't ask about her night, but she volunteered that she stayed home and did a lot of thinking, but that is the extent of what was said.
She cancelled her dinner date for tonight, not sure why and didn't ask. I'd like to imagine that she thinks it isn't appropriate, but there really isn't a problem going to dinner with this friend of hers. This is her seragate father figure.
She asked about my weekend, and I said I had plans. But I said I wanted to pick S up after work and have him stay with me until Sunday or Monday morning. She sais sure, and that this would give her some much needed rest.
Then a little alient spew, haha. "How can you have plans this weekend and take S all weekend?" I replied, "I include him on my activities." Probably not the best answer, sort of a jab, but I swear she now sees S as cramping her style and nightlife. I'd love to have him with me full time, I'd do all I can to work from home then.
It really sounds like she's at the beginning stages of really starting to think about what she's doing and what she's losing.
Great job.
I don't think telling the W that your plans included your S is a jab, just a plain ol' statement of fact. It's only a jab if your W really does consider him a crimp on her lifestyle. And that's her problem, not yours.
I hate baseball, but I still remember my first trip to see the Astros play in the Astrodome. Good memories for you and your son.
A note of caution, I work at home. Unless they're sick and thus lifeless in front of the TV, kids at home is not good for productivity -- at least until they get to be 6ish.
BD
Hey A!
You have shown a lot of interest in the IMAGO stuff I am learning, so I wanted to share this link with you:
IMAGO Home Page. There is tons of free info on here. Check it out. Pretty cool stuff.
Later,
Nomopo
heimlich, gd, matt, dlt1 and nomo and everyone else,
thank you for your support and encouragement. i know we can all do this, i have started reading the success stories a few days ago and that is really helping with the pma. i suggest it highly.
journaling:
w calls just prior to lunch and is upset because s doesn't have a binki for a nap, having that thing at 2 and half is another deal in itself, but i wont' control. i could hear her breaking down over this little thing. so i asked her to hold on and checked the car. i had one and i work 5 minutes away. so i stopped by at lunch, and she seemed really happy to see me. didn't stay long though. i think this was made up, i just bought some for him the other night and left them all at her place.
then i picked s up at 5 after work. when i showed he was still asleep. so we hung out for about an hour. rubbed her feet. outside of our talk to other night, there is no talk of divorce. she even asked about me coaching tball when that comes.
so w goes out of her way to tell me again that she has cancelled her dinner date, and this time she says it was inappropriate. huh? that is what i said earlier and now she is saying it. it caught me so off guard all i said was that is too bad. funny thing is i really don't think it is inappropriate with him, unless she going to pull an anna nichol. haha
then she asks about the ballpark. tell her it is really nice and she would enjoy it. she doesn't like nba games, too many people and makes her nervous. told her the ballpark is a lot more open and spacious. then she tells me that she is staying home tonight and not doing anything. not sure if this was the case, but after words it seemed to hit like a ton of bricks. she cancels the date, asks about the ballpark, and then says she is staying in tonight. i think she wanted an invite extended. honestly, i have screwed that up too much lately, and couldn't take any more no's, so i'm not trying.
the thing that is really hitting me right now is my feelings. i know that i want her to be here, but i'm also getting these feelings of detachment. as in, i know in my heart if she showed at the door right now wanting to come back, i would be all about it. but i feel, crap can't really explain it. just not as commited i guess and i think my indiffrence is starting to show through. not in a bad way, i actually think she is struggling with the fact that how can he be so calm about all of this. i don't know, just feels odd.
oh forgot to add, w has dumped her new friends. i guess we will see if it sticks. her friend is drunk last night, goes to some guys apartment near by and asks to borrow his truck for a quick trip. he lets her, idiot. well she goes home and goes to sleep. a few hours later, police and guys are at my w's door, looking for his truck. w was not happy about this. somehow i just don't buy that friend knocks on the door and gets keys, i'm sure there are parties and such and they all know each other. ah, that is an a thought, need to d that in the butt, i don't know crap.
so great things are happening to w, just a joke. but i feel like we are getting closer, more relaxed around each other.
Atlas
She seems to be moving your direction. Keep up what you are doing. The detachment on your side seems to be causing you to wonder if you are losing some feeling yourself? I dont think that is true so dont worry about it.
the thing that is really hitting me right now is my feelings. i know that i want her to be here, but i'm also getting these feelings of detachment. as in, i know in my heart if she showed at the door right now wanting to come back, i would be all about it. but i feel, crap can't really explain it. just not as commited i guess and i think my indiffrence is starting to show through. not in a bad way, i actually think she is struggling with the fact that how can he be so calm about all of this. i don't know, just feels odd.
Atlas,
I know how you feel and what you are trying to say. I sometimes wonder how we would go on if things got better. I mean how do we start over? I guess it would be slow process...like we are falling in love all over again.
Hang in there. You the man!
Matt
Atlas,
Having the same feelings. I love my W and want her back, but I don't want the R we had for the past 4 years (in some aspects, I don't want our previous relationship, even when it was great, either). I'm doing my best to change, and I can pull that weight for quite a while, had forgotten how strong of a person I am, but she's eventually going to change herself to. Can she bend to accomadate me as I'm willing to do for her? Dunno.
I need to do a lot more thinking on this, but, yeah, I feel wishy-washy about this whole thing too everyone once in a while. Just not letting her see that.
Baseball today? If the W calls and hints around again, maybe ask her (or get there and ask her to bring a binky).
BD
Oh, and I don't think it's indifference you're describing, but detachment. It sounds like your W is realizing that, in your mind, you're ready to move on without her if you have to. That might be what's pulling her back in.
The old, "I want what I can't have/fear losing" thinking. Just a thought, but there may be an element of that in her movements back to you.
Not sure that makes total sense, but, there you go
BD
hmmm, not sure what to say.
w called 3 times today. kept going out of her way to say she wanted to come see s. thought it was an excuse to come see me and it might have been. she asked that i call once he was up from his nap and she would come over.
at 5 i called. she apoligized she couldn't come over to see him because her dinner date was back on. i know it is no big deal, as long as it is rick, crap a though kill it, but for some reason it still sucks. mainly because i know she won't let me show her a good time. i want to take her out soooo bad.
so s and i hit a bbq with other divorcee's, felt dumb as hell. everyone is ther with their kids, almost everyone there is single, and i'm disgusted. everyone is basically toasting to their d's, so happy they are free, blah blah blah. didn't show how i felt, there are a few d's there i totally agree with, but defiently not all. guess i'm becoming ol fashioned.
well w said on the phone that she wants to do something family oriented tomorrow. i don't know if i'm reading into it more than i should, but god i love it. s has such a good time when we are together, and i love seeing her, spending time with her, and just seeing her. we usually catch each other glancing and smile, it is so nice.
at this point, i just hope she is alright. i can't give up but right now i feel like an over stuffed idiot with emotions. i'm so sad about her leaving, i pissed about it and angry. i'm feeling detached, lost and ready to move on. the mind is in a new spot every few minuts. the only constant is my care for her. i hope she is alright, i wish i could be her alright, but she just needs that more than anything, even if it isn't me.
ladies, please if you have advice or thoughts let me know.
so after throwing my own self righteous pity party at the divorce bbg tonight, and then sitting her and thinking things suck, w calls.
she was so upbeat. told me how her night with rick, no worries he is her co-worker, 65, w is 31, he is dying of emphazemia (sp?) 3rd stage and carries around his meds and oxygen tank. not to worried. but she goes on to say how it was horrible, he got totally wasted, he fell down in the restaurant as they were leaving. she offered to pay for a cab and he wouldn't have it. i just listened. so she is laughing about this but hopeing at the same time he doesn't kill someone. then i offered advice, maybe you should call to make sure he is alright and got home, stopped myself and apologized for offering advice, and said i'm sorry that you had a bad evening, i was really hoping you would have some fun.
then she says well i'm almost off the highway, not far from where i live, we live pretty close, she says can i come over, i say sure. then she backs out and says she just need to go home and go to bed.
then she says "i really appreciate how you have given me space and are alright with me going out, it means a lot, even though all my friends i have made are idiots."
then she goes on to say that she wants to see her two boys tomorrw and spend the day with them. i'm the second boy by the way. need to work on that man thing. i ask her what she has in mind, she says we will figure it out, i just would really like you two to come over when you get up. i said i wanted her to get some sleep, controlling i know. but she agreed and said lets make it 1030 so i can rest.
w says can't wait to see you tomorrow, we'll have a good time, good night.
well the pity party is now on cloud 9. god i'm so close i can taste it. well drinking tonight, luckily when she called i have had only 2, i have been pretty good with that lately, but i need to stop it all together. kind of hard when w wants to have drinks with me. arrgh.
Atlas, you had a pretty good evening. I only wish my w would want to be so close. every time we have a chance to be close, she sabotages it. It becomes quite depressing and frustrating. I know people on this board say that it is better that we don't have kids, but it has always been so important to me, that i feel like I am missing out on having what I have always wanted.
It is good that she is recognizing that you have been giving her space... I only wish my W would say anything about "us"... so depressing... As far as the man thing goes... good luck with that, I hate trying to figure out how that is done.
Have a nice smooth drink for me... I have decided that I had enough tonight... (don't get the wrong idea, I am talking about I had 6 or so over 4 hours) not that big a deal, just hate where I am. Guess I can always strive to get to the point you are at, or some of these other successful DB'ers that make it and get back to where they want to be.
Hope everyone has a nice evening.
speaking of drinking.......
yeah yeah, I drink only beer...
seems like it is becoming more and more, need to slow that down.
not the right direction.
Atlas, I hope tommorow goes good for you. Careful of alien talk, and all that.....seems like from what I read about yours she likes to pull you in to push you away...devise a stratagy for that
Atlas,
Man, things are looking up. Just remember. No expectations and don't get too high on Cloud 9 (maybe try cloud 4 or 5 tomorrow ;)) Be
and show that woman what she'll be missing out on.
BD
Atlas, hope you are resting well right now. I hope this coimes out right:
Parachute down to cloud 4 or 5 indeed. Hope for the best and prepare for the worst. I don't want to deflate this wonderful chain of events, just reminding about 2 steps forward, one step back. Go out and enjoy yourself, your S and your W. Focus on S's good time, I think that will keep pressure off you and W. And will probably make the 2 of you have a great time.
I'm sure we'll be reading about each other's great dates tomorrow! Go out and have some fun!
stew, nddt, heimlich, dlt1,
thanks for the posts, can't sleep still on cloud 9. not to worry, i may go through the coaster ride tomorrow, but when i'm on stage i db like there is now tomorrow.
i just can't get over a couple of statements, that she can't wait to see her boys, and that she really appreciates that i'm alright with her going out with friends. she said it such, like she was acknowledging some type of permission. but all i said was that she deserves to have a good time.
i shouldn't read too much into it, because every thing changes after a night of sleep, but who knows were she will stand tomorrow. but i have to say, if she sees it as me giving her something and she is grateful, well then she still sees our m as something valid, if she thinks i need to give my blessing. it is major controlling, and she is talking to the old me, but i can't help but take that as a great sign.
i just hope she realizes that i don't wan't what we had, with permission's from each other. i want her to commit, and i give my all, a partnership, friendship, parents and lovers.
you know the other night when i pushed, can't remember how i got to this point, but i told her i didn't want the r we had, i told her it was dead, that i wanted this new one that we had begun, i wanted a new life with her. maybe it hit home even though i shouldn't have said it.
what a day with w and s,
showed up with her coffee, she was grateful. asked about my weekend with s, and what we did. had a pretty good conversation, we were planning on getting out as a fam, but the boy was tired so we put him down. then the r talk started, she had a lot to get off her chest.
it's tough to db with a therapist, she sees it all but i think it doesn't really matter. see started out with that she knows in order to make things work she can't look backwards and has to think forward, but that she had unanswered questions from the past and she wanted to bounce them off me. then the list started, on my hell she has the memory of an elephant, things i forgot i had done, it was rough, class a1 ahole here. all i did was listen, mirror, validate and empathize. at one point we're holding hands and crying together. pretty rough. she wanted an explanation and wouldn't take i'm working on myself for an anwer.
i told her that i was not a good husband, that i learned to treat a marriage from the way i grew up, i thought this is how it worked. talked about how that lead to my control. then i told her about my c session, about how i listed what i was attracted to when we were dating. told her it was her feminist, independant leadership, that she stood for things and wasn't afraid to speak her mind, and this made me love her. then we married and all i wanted to do was please you, so i handled everything to show my love, like my father does for my mother. but that just killed your spirit of being a women who walks tall.
she started crying, you did those things out of love? not to control me? i told her i thought by taking control, not necessarily of her but of our lives i wanted her to relax and live life. then she jumps in with her therapy side, so you thought you were pleasing me, i'm complaining and had to seem ungrateful to you, well this explains a lot of why we are where we are.
then she said she ran into a mutual friend and the friend told w about my sorority night at the ballgame. had a good time that night, just women to talk too. she seemed to want to know more and i told her that they only talked to me, nothing is going on, i'm not dating, nothing. then she said she just wanted me to be happy, and i told her either way i would be happy because i would know it is what she wants.
friend also told w that a few women have asked her about me, w wanted to know if i would see other women if we got a d. told her that she would always have a special place in my heart, but i'm no monk.
she seems really disturbed by this idea of me seeing other people, but she is dating freely and admitted to it. which is odd, the other night it was inappropriate, now it isn't. everything with her right now is ok then not. i guess i just have to be the constant, win or lose, the constant.
well the whole time, outside of if we d would i date, it is now called the seperation, no mention of divorce. except she did tell me that she was so scared at first that i would take s from her. i told her no matter what i'm not fighting, i'm not repeating her mother and father, or any other d we have seen. i don't have the desire, energy and just can't fight her anymore about anything.
this is really the short version, there was 4 hours of this and these are the points i really noticed. but overall the tone was very good outside of about 45 minutes. very upbeat, positive outlook on her part and mine. no d talk in the sense of do you want this, or will you fight that, just the hypothetical's, would you remarry, etc.
at the end she said, do you want to know what to do to win me back. said i would love a map. she said keep treating me decently. i asked for a temperture gage on that. she said you have been so, so, so, so, so decent. gave me a hug and told me to just keep it up. typically at this point i run, don't want to get back to upset mode. so i threw out that i need to leave. she said i would really like us all to go get something to eat. then we drove around all afternoon lost, looking for her restaurant, finally went 15 miles the other way to go to another one. the whole drive we are laughing telling each other jokes, holding hands at one point. that was nice.
then she brought up the car thing again, i just listened. therapist stoped by again, she said don't just validate me, i'm actually asking your advice on this. so i gave it and she said thanks, i think your right. all i said was that it is her car, she could do whatever she wanted to do with it, but i wouldn't get a car payment for now.
we got takeout and took it back to her place. had lunch, put s down for another nap.
she is also coming over to the house tomorrow to do some work. she hasn't done that in a while. great sign, because i don't think she has felt comfortable there for a while.
Atlas,
Sounds like a nice day w/ your W. She's a therapist? Yeah, I could see how that would make things tricky. I think you did well in your talks w/ her. Lots of positives coming from her, especially when she was talking about how you can win her back. It seems that most WAS' don't even want to think about being won back by the LBS, so this seems like a big thing.
Keep up the good work!
Atlas,
Broken keyboard or not, looks like the clouds are parting.
You two are really starting to pinpoint areas in your R that were broken and why. You've got a ways to go, but I'd say you have made a lot of progress today.
Any sense for why she's hung up on you dating? Not like you would, but just seems odd for her to think that you wouldn't start dating if you were divorced.
I think you may be entitled for float on cloud 9 for the remainder of the evening.
BD
itskat and heimlich, thank you.
ya it was a rough day, big coaster ride, but i think things are defiently moving in the right direction. walked away very positive. for her say how to win her back, well she has left the door open i just have to get to it and not do something that will close it.
the dating thing is funny, i think she needed to see if the opposite sex still finds me attractive. i'm not a bad looking guy, vain i know, but i'm no brad pitt either. in fact i'm rather tall and skinny. 6'2" and usually 185, but i have dropped major pounds through this. but for a while she kept pushing me to go out, and now that she knows women are approaching me, and that her new friend wants a date, i think she is freaking out. she has snapped a few times that i am hers. the only thing i can come up with is she thought it would do me some good to see how hard the single life would be, but now that i already have a line up for dates, well i can imagine that makes her jealous. i don't know.
i sure hate that she is dating though, but what do you do. but she said she makes it clear that nothing physical is going to happen, and she said she was surprised how many men immediately walk away. hmm, go figure men physical. but this is her choice, and if she f's up this m, well she did it, not me. i continue to wear my ring, won't date and just gal'ing.
i'm not sure if i'm going through my own mlc, or what. but i've always on the dark side of things, sort of hard though when you deal with tax issues all day. doesn't really fit, but always used to be at shows, music, bars, the fun. well sort of rediscovering myself, and i have come up with 2 big gal's. i'm going to start saving for the bike i want, i'll by something to tide me over for now, but eventually i want something that is loud as hell, low and mean. prior to that i'm really wrestling with the tattoo thing, i have for years wanted this very basic thunderbird, sort of native american design, but if i do it is going to take up the whole chest. if i'm going to do it, i'm going big.
sort of weird, never really been into the tattoo's and i was thinking about that lately, and looked around at my frieds as we were all eating dinner, most are covered and at the least a few. i think that is what has actually turned me off to them, so many bad ones, but there are some great ones as well. i have a friend with a couple of hummingbirds on his forearm and they are some of the best i have ever seen.
well both a bike and tattoo aren't an overnight purchase since i'll need to pool some money, so i won't be an organ donor just yet. gives some time to think it over.