First off, I posted some time ago in the infidelity forum. My wife had an affair some time ago but we tried to reconcile.
Currently, I think she's still wondering what life would be like without me and with him.
We've been through a lot of deep, hurtful problems in our marriage. Mainly things that have hit us in the wallet and things we will not get out of for a while. My wife (and I hate to say this because I love and respect her so) is to blame. She had done some things to lose her job and it's going to be a while until she can work again. For years now she has blamed herself and put this cloud over her head. This new guy, I believe, has helped her see the sun through the clouds.
Unfortunately, for a long time I didn't help her. I selfishly did my thing to not think about our problems and basically walked away emotionally on her. She built up a huge wall that I've been trying to poke through since late last year. But the wall is high and thick and she's not willing to let me work on breaking it.
What I'm trying to say is that I have done a 180. She notices and my kids notice. I've been at it for many months now. But to no avail. When we talk it always seems to go to her wanting to get out of this mess - and I'm part of it. Last night was no exception. She wants out. I know it. She still holds on to the fact that this other guy is going to give her what she needs through and through. And no matter how hard I show her that I can do it the wall trumps me.
This morning I prayed. For her, us, the kids, and me. But I keep going back to thinking the best thing is to give in to her desire. Mainly to see if it's really what she wants. I asked God to show me a tiny light of hope that I can cling to. A light to show me that there is hope in my battle to break down that wall. If there is not light, I'm walking out - somehow, someway.
I was just about to sign off this site because I don't need it at the moment; however, I accidentally saw your post. I watched the movie Fireproof last night. Have you seen it? Very powerful. Try to check it out if you can.
I was thinking about that movie too. We watched it a while back but it never struck a cord with us at the time. I wonder if it would now?
I may ask her one day. I don't know. Right now I'm the only one trying to suggest things and make things better. She's sitting pretty eating cake. This marriage needs both of us and I have to do what it takes to get her into action. But now it isn't happening.
Still trying to decide if I need to walk out and give her time. I know, I know, I'm sitting on the pot and not doing anything. Things are confusion and complicated right now. Not sure what to do. So I'm praying a lot.
I'm trying to stay cool. Really trying.
We're currently read the 5 Love Languages together. Not sure what will come out of it but we're doing it together - so that promising.
I'm also trying to be less pathetic acting at home; down, lost looking, hopeless, and reading too much into things.
The situation is what it is and all I can do is to stay patient, upbeat, good-natured, and somebody my wife would want to be around. The thing is, it's tough as heck. Real tough. Especially when I consider that she had an affair and basically acts like she's holding all of the cards.
So, what I'm doing is acting like it's not bothering me and I'm taking everything she can throw at me; like her mood swings, distance, lack of compassion, etc.
I'm also trying to pull more weight at the house (no complaining) with dad duties and home duties. And I'm really staying positive and happy about it too.
Maybe with all this - and a lot of time - she will grow to appreciate the man I am and realize that I'm more than enough for her to be with and love. Only time will tell and I'm not going to expect the world out of it.
I hear ya. I'm in the same place. I'm 99% sure H had an affair (found panties, he joined a dating site, etc) and now I'm kissing his butt trying to keep the peace and save the marriage. I'm not sure what I want either. I want to save my M but I'm not sure if it's worth it. That's the question you have to ask yourself... is it worth it to you? What are you trying to save? What about her do you want to hold on to? Because that's all that's going to motivate you to hold on during the hardest moments. Grab onto those.
The fact that you're reading together.... huge deal. Huge. She's trying, open to learn how to make the R work. Don't discount that.
TCM, I really feel for you. I am in the same process and I have good days and bad.
my boyfriend just went from telling me he watches porn (I asked) to talking to his ex, looking at other women in front of me, and now he came home with a brand new (BRIGHT PINK) car yesterday?
He has recently started saying he wants to work this out (to our therapist and in an email to me). But I don't know. Actions speak louder than words. Anyway! That's my story, but I think praying helps. I do know what you mean about feeling like they are eating their cake. It's soooo annoying and hurtful.
Have you guys been to counseling together?
We've had our pastor over a few times to talk to us. It helped at first. But then life/time started getting in the way.
For several days things have been going really good. I'm just trying to stay upbeat and helpful and encouraging. The key to it right now is not being too needy. I give her the space she needs and never read too much into her moods.
I don't know if I'll ever be out of the woods. Every day I feel like I have to be on my toes. Though lately it's been easier. I don't have the massive anxiety I once had. But I'm still not walking around at ease.
It's been a while. We have our good days and our bad.
Recently, we've had two bad days - one real bad. She had an affair last year and we've been working through a lot of things. One of the main things we (mainly I) need to work on is feeling secure that the affair is over and there's just 'us' to keep the marriage going.
If anyone is reading this that has had an affair and wants to mend things the main thing (I think) is to convince the SO that nothing is going on behind their back. Do whatever it takes. If things don't line up with whereabouts, phone conversations, time, etc. do whatever needs to be done to make it right.
My wife got mad at me for questioning things that didn't line up and seemed real, real odd. When I confronted her she blew up and one evening left for the night. I was stuck at home trying to think up stories for the children when they came home so they wouldn't worry. They know nothing of the affair or our problems. I plan on keeping it that way.
Yes, I need more confidence. I want more confidence. I would love to be in control of myself when matters like this disrupt our lives. But it's difficult when you think you're being lied to and walked on.
I have made significant changes in who I am to her and my children. These changes have been consistent for almost 1/2 year now and she notices them. But I'm afraid she's worried that I will go back to my old self and be an ugly, mean man so she's holding on to something else just in case.
Hopefully not. Because I cannot think of sharing my wife with another man. It's either him or me and I'm ready to say it's him if she's not willing to let go.
TPC,
Just saw this and I would suggest backing off of your XW for the moment. Sounds like you guys started working on things without laying the groundwork first.......
Meaning......
There can be no "working on things" as long as there is another person in the picture......
There is no amount of counseling, no amount of relationship talks, no amount of good days, no nothing......
Until....
The other person is out of the picture.
MWD has a chapter devoted to Affairs in DR, not sure I would share DR with her.....that should be for you. Have you read Divorce Remedy??
I see where you guys read the 5 Love Languages.....great book.
It is good that you guys read that together, maybe you could read another book together......After the Affair or Not Just Friends is another that has good tools for couples working through those issues.
Hope this helps...
Cheers
First,
Have you actually read the Div Remedy book or the Div Busting book? PLease do so asap if not. Also read "After the Affair". You didn't say how you discovered the A or how she reacted to your response or what your response was...
It's been a while. We have our good days and our bad.
Recently, we've had two bad days - one real bad. She had an affair last year and we've been working through a lot of things. One of the main things we (mainly I) need to work on is feeling secure that the affair is over and there's just 'us' to keep the marriage going.
Of course. But easier said than done. Plus she probably is NOT sure she made the right choice and you pressuring her to make it is counter productive right now.
If anyone is reading this that has had an affair and wants to mend things the main thing (I think) is to convince the SO that nothing is going on behind their back. Do whatever it takes. If things don't line up with whereabouts, phone conversations, time, etc. do whatever needs to be done to make it right.
That time comes when and If the spouse who had the A wants to end it and is confident she made the right choice...most are NOT sure for months that they did.
***Their spouses have to make it clear that THEY, (The LBSer) isn't going to hold the affair over her head the rest of her life. If the LBSer cannot or will not let it go, the marriage is doomed...
IF she thinks you won't /can't forgive or let it go, the M is doomed.
My wife got mad at me for questioning things that didn't line up and seemed real, real odd.
THen stop. There are some who say "trust but verify" and some who say "don't snoop. Let her come to choose you in her time..." however long you can handle it.
Thing is, some of the questions you ask of her may sound as if you won't forgive her...ever....so why should she try?
What were your issues and your 180s? What type of things did you do that shut her out?
As you admit and I appreciate your insight and willingness to cast aside your wounded ego to look at your role in this, (Bravo, seriously, you are already ahead of most people right there)....I just think it's easy to focus
on your pain and the affair
rather than what lead to it....and that's important.
When I confronted her she blew up and one evening left for the night. I was stuck at home trying to think up stories for the children when they came home so they wouldn't worry. They know nothing of the affair or our problems. I plan on keeping it that way.
Bravo again. You are putting their needs and the chance of restoring your marriage ahead of your need to punish or be right...Thank GOD.
It is NOT the spouses's job to "teach a lesson" to our mates nor is it our job to "show them the consequences" of their choices.
As my DB coach said, "life does that"....
Plus you want to Keep the Road Home, Paved & Smooth. It's probably much harder than you realize, for her to deal with what this means about her.
The more her choices are questioned, the more she will be forced to defend them.
The more people who know or the more shame she feels, or guilt, easily backfires. As you have seen. My h cannot feel guilt for more than 5 minutes, or so I thought. All I saw was his anger if I said "how can you do this? Or "Why are you ? And my DB coach said those questions, e.g. 'how can you' and or 'why are you' were designed to make them feel defensive. So I had to stop asking questions that began that way.
Yes, I need more confidence. I want more confidence. I would love to be in control of myself when matters like this disrupt our lives. But it's difficult when you think you're being lied to and walked on.
I have made significant changes in who I am to her and my children. These changes have been consistent for almost 1/2 year now and she notices them. But I'm afraid she's worried that I will go back to my old self and be an ugly, mean man so she's holding on to something else just in case.
Wow, great insight. She has the "right" to distrust you then, in a way....and that's important for you to see. So you both can get on the same team and be working on MUTUAL issues of trust...not making her all wrong and you just a victim...
See my point?
Hopefully not. Because I cannot think of sharing my wife with another man. It's either him or me and I'm ready to say it's him if she's not willing to let go.
Slow down...
be way more patient.
From where I sit, couldn't she argue that "She stuck it out with you for how long? YEARS & YEARS in which You were a self described "ugly mean man" to her?
See, in her eyes, you pushed her into the arms of OM...
So for you to now whine that
"hey, 6 months of me being a
decent h is enough to make up for ALL the years of crap I gave her...and I want her to end the one thing she felt
good about in years, NOW!
b/c I SAID I CHANGED and I've been a normal decent guys for half a year...
See how that kind of Makes you seem like...an "ugly, mean
impatient man..."?
do you see how that could happen? Do you get how she could see this?
Here's a strong recommendation I cannot over emphasize.
Go to Retrovaille. It is very healing and you would get a lot out of it.
Good luck and fwiw, there IS hope in your sitch.
And check out MY timeline...6 months isn't long enough to overcome what you have to overcome...
just my .02
Thanks to those who recently posted. My back story is in the affair forum but I'll try and sum up here a bit to get you up to date.
First off, I wasn't mean and ugly in the sense of abusive emotionally, physically, or otherwise. My sense of mean and nasty are what my wife tells me about. And she always says it was for "all" of our marriage up to where I decided to change when I found out she was having an affair. In reality, it was probably nothing like that. I am a guy who sticks to it no matter how tough. I'm very devoted. Very devoted. I can't really get into it here but let's say it's sort of like when your children tell you that you never let them do anything. It's kind of blown up.
No, 6 months is nothing. I can do 6 months on my head. But if there is still another man involved I cannot continue when failure lies ahead. If she has one hand fully grasped to OM and her small finger holding lightly gripped to me, where do I stand?
I think, basically, I'm fed up. She lost her job, not once, but twice because of substance abuse. She gave up long ago at trying to clean up her life. I stood beside her and tried to motivate her to continue even the second time around. I stood by and forgave her not only for that but for the affair. I was the one who decided to change, to work hard, to make amends. But all I hear is resentment, blame, and anger. And on top of it, she continues to lie - and maybe even cheat.
Forgive me really. Maybe I just need to rant and rave because at home I try to be upbeat, confident, loving and kind. And sometimes I just need to vent. I have no real friends or family I can lay it on. Most of my friends would want me to tell her to (blank) off! My family would change their feelings about her.
That's another side of the coin right there. She IS a beautiful woman. I still find her amazingly attractive and fun to be around. It is just when she's emotionally distant it fuels her resentment and anger toward me.
I'm spent really. I've been at this for a while trying to remain calm and cool. Trying to not show my feelings or hurt or bitterness. Trying to salvage my marriage and save my family. Trying to stay positive even though I'm being beaten down inside. My head spins. My heart aches. My spirit is weak. I lost my faith in God in myself in everything and everyone.
We have no money to seek real help. She needs help with so much going on inside her. She won't open up to me or her friends. She bottles in a lot and when her top pops I'm the one she punches on.
Yes, I've read Divorce Busting. I've read, How to Win Your Wife Back Before It's Too Late. I've prayed. I've sought help in every direction. My church walked away. When I walked away they walked away and it hurts. I feel like if you've stopped walking through the doors because you are struggling they give up on you.
I'm just ready to quit because I'm so punch-drunk right now. I'm losing motivation.
Update.
I need encouragement to continue. She's still texting the OM and gets sort of indifferent with me. I don't want to leave her because she's going through a lot of inner turmoil. She's fighting her chemical addictions, going to meetings to help. She laid a lot of blame on herself for what's going with out financial problems and marriage. But when it comes to talking about them she'll start pointing fingers.
Some days she willing to fight. Other days she's not. Those days it seems like I could just walk out and she wouldn't care. I love this woman in spite of all that's happened. I love her to pieces.
I'm going through such confusion right now trying to figure out if I should stay and fight or walk out and let her decide if we're worth the fight.
Losing hope.
I feel like I need to stand up for myself here. I'm acting like nothing is bothering me. Totally staying upbeat and positive. But it's killing me each day knowing she's still probably talking to this OM.
I want her to see a guy she couldn't live without. I'm doing things I've never done before - but not going overboard. If we split this will be the guy she remembers.
We're suppose to go out tonight with friends. Hopefully it will end on a positive note.
Tough day despite what has happened.
I want to keep acting like everything is OK. I want to stay strong and be a man she would love to be with. Happy, funny, loving, caring, devoted, strong, decisive, and motivational.
The past couple of days she has acted like she really wants to be around me - and real close too. We've had to work together a few days during the week and she always come back to my office to check on me.
I've got the sneaky suspicion it's not really me as it is the OM. Maybe he wants out - even if it's temporary. And maybe my wife is worried about losing both of us. I mean, hell, she had cake. You know? What good is life without cake?
I have a question if anyone is reading and can help. With this 180 thing, can I be a little questionable with my whereabouts and what I'm doing? Can I act completely different like something else has my attention? If so, how readily available do I make myself when she calls or needs me? Sometimes I intentionally miss her calls or IMs. I don't want to push her away and sometimes I'm afraid I will do that.
If the OM is still around she doesn't have to worry. That's the thing. I don't really know if he is or not. She stopped all contact with him in the past then they started talking again. And she lied, lied, lied until I grabbed her phone from her one night and saw the text.
I'm in limbo right now. No direction. No motivation. Sometimes.
Forgive me for basically writing as I would in a diary but it seems to help a little.
My wife has been working in my office a few days a week. I like it because I know what she's doing throughout the day. Where as her being at home all day she can do whatever she like and with who she likes.
I've been emailing my pastor and he wants to counsel us but I'm not going to press it with my wife. He wouldn't charge us which will be great since we're almost broke right now.
I'm really trying to stay positive and happy when I'm around her. I want her to see me as someone she really wants to be around. Someone she doesn't want to lose.
For the past few days she's had a real needy spirit. She wants to me to be real close to her and hold her. This may sound great but actually it's real confusing. Because she will be like this and I will give in and get comfortable with it then she'll act as if I don't matter. This is only (in my heart) to make sure I'm around in case she needs 'a man' - not me in general.
How do I deal with this? How do I make it turn into something positive? I want everything I do make a step in the right direction no matter how painful or difficult.
Another thing I need to work on is paranoia. She had an affair and if it's over - even just for a short while - I'm always thinking that she's looking for someone else to be with instead of trying to work on us. Even guys in our office. She's a very pretty woman and guys look at her all the time. It's never bothered me in the past. I used it as motivation. She was mine and it made me feel good about me. Now I'm starting to get real paranoid and angry - but I don't show it.
I made a big no-no today.
We went to lunch and I told her she has to decide whether it's me or him. Because I'm ready to move on and not be a door mat. She's having her cake and just shoving it under my nose.
Tell me all the reasons why I shouldn't have pressured her. Please.
I just want to move on and find a new life if she cannot trust me to make her's better.
The conversation was pretty good actually and I came out with some answers. One, she's not sure what she wants. That! Is an answer for me. The one I didn't want actually. But still, an answer.
Now I'm going to leave it alone for a while. Maybe she'll come to me and tell me straight up. If not, I have to make the decision.
Our conversation continued when we got home. I told her how I really felt about the affair. How it made me feel less than a man.
It does. I feel like I cannot provide her with everything she needs and she is showing me how inadequate I am. Beyond that how much my heart aches knowing that she's looking at me thinking about him. When she's out I get phone calls because she has to. He gets them because she wants to.
She cannot look me in the eye and tell me we are worth the fight. I keep getting blamed for why she's doing what she's doing. The changes I've made are very noticeable but too late. She says she does know what the right thing to do is but she's tired of trying to do what's right in everyone else's eyes. Even though she agrees we need help to save us she cannot make it heartfelt.
I am so lost right now. I've almost stopped praying and have come to a conclusion that either God isn't there or has spun us into existence and sat back to watch the circus. There's no comfort in my spirit. No guidance. No help in the struggle. Every day I get the feeling that I have no hope and my wife is gone for good. I should check out and find somebody else to share the rest of my life with. I need to realize my daughters will struggle sooner or later. So why not sooner so they have the rest of the summer to build a tolerance to the pain.
Should I back off and let her do what she's doing? We live together and sometimes can be intimate. We also are working together a few days a week. We have lunch together on those days. Ride to and from work. So we're in constant contact. I don't know what to do. What path I should be on. My prayers are dead. So is my heart.
Rough Friday. I stayed home to get some things done around the house. My wife had to go to a meeting then run some errands. I've realized how absolutely tough it is when I don't know what she's doing. My trust in her is all but gone. And to make matters worse she's not one to continually let me know where she is or what she's doing. To me, building trust isn't on her agenda.
I tried to stay busy and keep my mind off of it but I got overwhelmed by the thoughts of what she had done and what's going on. And the nagging questions that may never be answered honestly.
My daughters were there so I tried to stay as strong as possible and not show them anything but a good dad. They don't know what's going on really. I want them to have security in their lives. I want them to feel safe and loved.
At one point I got on my knees and cried out to God. And just cried. The battle in my heart is too strong sometimes and I cannot bear it.
When she came home things did get better and I chalked it up to a victory in our walk. Though I still don't know what's going on while I'm not around. I don't know when she calls him or goes to see him. And typing this pains me more than anything. Just the fact that I'm getting walked on and kicked around by the woman I love grips me with such trepidation, anger, and darkness.
We did have a good evening with a bit of love making. I chalk that up too because it was so driven by passion unlike times before. I made it my priority (like I should always) to make her feel like the world vanished.
Saturday I had to train (endurance athlete) away from home. My training has really fell short and my races have become battles that I cannot win no matter what. I see a parallel between my racing and my marriage. I feel like I'm losing both competitions. Anyway, the whole time I was thinking about my wife and her whereabouts and what she may be thinking of. Several times I just fogged out during my training and had to wake myself up.
When I got home - a lot earlier than expected - my wife was still in bed and my youngest daughter was getting up. We had plans to go to the amusement park and have some fun. The weather was nice and it would be a good day to ride the coasters. Early on, while getting ready, my wife was distant. Something was on her mind and I didn't want to pry - as hard as it was to find out.
When we finally got out the door and to the park things got a lot better. She was so close to me and held on to me. The feelings I had and the security were nothing I've experienced in months. My oldest daughter (step-daughter, 16) and her boyfriend met us later. I made sure we rode stuff together. I made the day awesome for all of them. And it was really. The rest of the night was pretty good but we were so exhausted that nothing else happened when we got home as much as I wanted it to.
She's still so beautiful to me. So lovely in many ways. Her heart is so big and so caring sometimes it hurts to think I'm not in it.
Sunday we went to church. My daughter sat between us so we weren't holding hands or anything and she actually asked about it later. I just told her I wanted her to make some moves. When we got home, however, things changed again. She started acting secretive and I got depressed. Depressed because I want to know but I don't want to press her. I want to back off but I want to be right there to make sure she's not doing anything.
She could sense I was down in the dumps so it made a wedge between us. I decided to go to the paint store to get some stuff to finish our bathroom and closet. Our house is a wreck after our closet shelves collapsed. This is my project while she's out of town with the girls. Something to keep me busy and my mind off things.
I came back and finished the bathroom and we actually started talking a little bit. Things got better before the night was over and we became close again while watching one of our favorite shows.
The evening ended OK but I still couldn't shake the feelings. All the ups and downs wore me out. And today hasn't started. I'm not sure what mood she will be in and there's this nagging thought that any second she'll just up and tell me it's over. I can sense confusion in her heart.
I want to cast that confusion out of her completely. I want to be the one and only.
Almost afraid to write this.
We had a real good evening last night. She's getting ready to go to visit her sister out of state. Her father is taking her, our daughters, and a few other grandkids in his van. Last night she went out for a bit to shop for her sister and her sister's kids to take them presents. She told me she would be home at 6:30 but I didn't get a phone call until 6:45.
I was all panic-stricken wondering what she was really up to. There are times when I just can handle the thoughts going through my mind. I get slammed with thoughts of her seeing the other guy and it crushes me.
Well, everything was just fine. She shopped a lot. For her, for me, for our kids, for her sister and family. And she brought bags in to prove it. (Not that I was asking).
I spent my time, as best as I could, on work that needed to be done in our closet and bathroom. And when she got home she wanted to help. We decided to hang a few mirrors she bought. She acted excited about it. So I was excited too. At one point while I was drilling holes and putting in anchors, I asked if she was worried about me while she was gone. It was sort of a conversation opener because I wanted to ask questions as well. She told me she was worried. I asked why. She said that I have every reason to not be faithful to her since she hadn't been. I tried to reassure her that I had no intention on doing anything to damage whatever has been rebuilt.
But I also told her that I was worried about her too. She has free reign to call whoever whenever and I won't be there to snoop around. Her face told me something. I don't want to get excited and hopeful by a look. I don't want to get that way from words either. But she told me that wasn't going to happen. Her face told the same story.
Her family isn't one to force her to do the right thing. To me, they'll go with whatever decision she makes. It's heart-wrenching because I'm alone in this. My family doesn't know, my kids don't know, and only a few friends of mine do. But they aren't very supportive. What can they do really? Guys are sort of straight when it comes to this. "Leaver her!" It's easy when you're on one side of it and not the other.
During the night we talked about a few things and she mentioned that she really has been trying to make me and our marriage her priority. She also told me she "was" considering counseling. Then we finished the back room and started getting romantic. It was great until our daughter walked in on us. I can still see the shocked look on her face when she saw her mother "wrestling" her father. So that ended abruptly.
But here's my warped mind. Here's where I start cursing every good step we take. I start thinking that she only tells me these things to keep me at bay until she picks the right time to leave me. She has no intention to work on us because I'll always be here like the doormat I am. She can do whatever the heck she wants to whoever she wants and I'll just be the submissive slave to take the beatings when she wants to administer them.
Or
She's telling me this so I won't go and do something crazy while she's gone. I'm home to finish the house and watch TV. Train on the days I train and that's about it. She knows my recently divorced, best friend wants to take me out for a good time. He knows our situation and she knows he knows. Why would she not reassure me that we're "going to work on things?" If I thought we weren't I'd go out and have a grand ole time at the local topless bars, or strip clubs, or pick up some street walkers, or whatever she thinks I'll be doing.
I don't think she has this understanding that I want to really repair the damage and have no intention on destroying anything that has been built - even if it was in the last couple of days.
All in all, things have been a little better. I have put my foot back in the front door. But the door is still somewhat open because I still don't know what's going on in her pretty, little head and I'm tired of the stress. The muscles in my neck are so tight right now that I constantly have a headache and my neck pops when I turn it. I've never been this stressful in all my life.
What should I expect day to day? Ups and downs? Good moods and bad moods? Mediocrity?
There are no books, no proper advice, no faith, no fake smile with head up and shoulders back to help alleviate the absolute torment that whirls inside of you during these times. The questions that root themselves into every thought and conversation. But you don't want to pry. The begging and pleading in your soul when your together. But you don't want to act needy. The anger, shame, anguish that reeks from your broken spirit. But you don't want to show negative emotions. It's the facade. The mask. The ersatz glow on your face to show that everything is okay.
It's sickening. It's gut wrenching. It's a nightmare that only you feel you posses as you go on with your everyday humdrum-ness.
Sometimes I want to walk up to my wife and take her innocence - as if there were any. I want to steal something from her like she stole from me. I want to show her the torment, the utter anguish and anxiety that plagues my every thought and movement. As ugly as it sounds, I wish she weren't here. On this earth. In my life. There are things that she has done to me that I "must" overlook to carry on with whatever it is that I'm doing.
And is it even worth it? All this pain. All this pressure. All this work to make me a new man to prove what? And to whom? To prove that I can do it? To show her that I'm worth even the smallest of fights?
I look at my family and my house and try to realize that we've built something. We've built memories for us and them. Will our house be a place where our children will, one day, want to come back and think of the good times they've had growing up. To reminisce of places they've laughed, places they've cries, places they've hidden when a storm comes.
And what of us - the parents? Will we ever want to come back? Will I want these memories to become real to me again? Do I want to see the places I've hidden during the storm I'm facing right now? Will she only see bad places that turned her away from me?
"This is the bathroom I painted one week as my soul was tortured relentlessly and my heart twinged with every beat. See the color. It's dark. Real dark. Like my broken spirit."
"This is where I bed used to be. It once held passion and tenderness. But at the end it held my tears as I knelt and prayed and cried out to God."
I don't want those memories. But it's too late.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Last night was another step forward - I think. We talked a bit as her and the girls got ready for their trip out of state. The girls were real excited. My wife looked concerned. I asked her what was on her mind and if she wanted to finish our talk about "us?" She opened up a little. I asked her if she was worried about me while she was gone. About what I may do. I reassured her that I had no intentions of doing anything that would destroy what we've built. The same things I told her the night before. But she's still worried. Ironic, huh?
I told her about the stress I was under. She really doesn't have a clue as to how much is on me. I wish she could recognize it. Think about all the questions you would have, I told her. If the shoe was on the other foot so to speak. What questions would you have, I ask. They're probably the same questions I have. She wondered why I didn't ask them. Because you lie to me. You tell me things I want to hear and not the truth. You've lied to me for a year and even after we started working on our marriage, you continued to lie. You hide things from me as if I'm a police officer. You go behind my back a lot. And you've never tried to rebuild trust.
Well, maybe for the first few days during our counseling. After that it was back to normal - or abnormal. Whichever way you want to look at it.
She did tell me that she wants to go back to counseling. She told me that she wants to make things right. This woman, my wife, however, is not one to initiate much. She never has been. She has to be pulled out of bed in the morning. Forced to get ready for church. Prodded to go run because she really likes to when she's out there. Manipulated to go to her NA meetings. Her engine doesn't turn over to easily. And I believe in my heart of hearts that she will not do much to rebuild trust, or go to counseling, or to stop talking to this other man, or to stop drinking, or to stop taking pills.
After some talk I asked her how she saw me and if that has any bearing on her worries about me. She told me that she knew I was a strong man, a committed man, and someone she could trust. But beneath all that she fears that I will push all that aside to do what I think she deserves because she feels she "does" deserve it.
I asked if she would want me to do something so she wouldn't feel so guilty about what she has done. In a way, she expressed. That way no one could point all fingers only at her.
TPC,
I have much to post to you but I am at the end of my day at work and probably will not get on again until tonight.
Let me say this much......there is a lot going for you in your situation and believe it or not I think your marriage is going to survive. I would suggest reading in the newcomers section, you may see much more wisdom on how to deal with the internal demons your battling.
BTW I think I live in the city next to that amusement park.
Cheers
Tpc,
Just wanted to say hey to you and I hope you are doing better..
I just came across your thread and after reading it, I need to digest it for a while..
You BOTH have been through a lot , and your situation has so much promise, but there are.....things....that you still need to address too.
Trust is hard to rebuild, and it doesn't appear that either of you are having much luck in that department.
Where does that start ?
How does that start ?
I'm not sure from where you stand , but it definitely deserves a look into.
For now, just try to relax and appreciate the things that you know are truths, and try to not let the demons in your head drive your actions..
More later....
TPC,
I see so many things here I am not sure where to start......
Lets start with what is going well.
It seems that she is somewhat concerned that you may stray and go out and have some "fun" b/c of what she did.
IMO this shows that she is at least thinking about recommitting to the marriage. She is weighing in her mind what it will be like.
She is probably wondering if she invests the time and effort into the marriage you could one day just up and leave her......and who could blame you.......right?????
There is nothing you can say that will help her here until she is re-committed to the marriage.....then you can give her reassurances.
It is not ironic that she fears that you may cheat on her or leave her, it is quite normal. I would even suspect that eventually you will see some anxiety on her part about your whereabouts and your activities when you are gone.
If this happens you can get all high and mighty and declare "this is what you get" or you can re-assure her that you are committed......but I am getting ahead of myself.
Things seem to be going well.......you guys are still under the same roof and it sounds like your financial situation has prevented you guys from separating. That has kept you guys together but it has kept YOU from taking a hard look at YOU.
Sometimes a separation can be good. Not in you case, not now. She is trying to get there but is not sure how to do it. Women are emotional creatures they have to "feel" a certain way in order to act.......it is quite un-natural for her to put forth the effort if she is not feeling it.....so I would say that she IS working on the marriage.....you just don't see it that way.
You want to see her jaw hit the floor?????
The next time she is trying to be close to you physically, acknowledge to her quietly that you realize she is working really hard on you guys and that you appreciate it even though she may not always "feel" it. That is it, that simple.
The other thing you need to do is stop doing the tempeture checks. Show her the man she wants to be with. She wants to be with a strong, confident man, one who is sure of himself and can be there for her even though she does not deserve it.
If she iniates a R talk that is fine......she does most of the talking and you do most of the listening.
As far as the other man goes, the next time you guys talk you can reiterate to her how you feel. You did an excellent job last week. You do not realize what a big step that is.
THe other thing that you need to do is let go of YOUR PAIN. You sooooo bad want her to "feel" the pain she caused.......you think that if she does that then she will fall on her knees and beg your forgiveness. NOT Gonna happen, and certainly not the way you would envision it.
I hope this helps a little,
I will post more tomorrow....
hang in there
cheers
Thank you, MHL. For the insight.
I have two issues that you've addressed but I cannot shake. These are my main concerns.
One, How can I make progress with our marriage and myself knowing (or at least thinking) she's still with this other man? Even if it's talking on the phone. I feel like such a whimp. I'm letting her do it while I sit at home all cheery like. That's got me so stressed.
And that brings up issue two. I am in so much pain in my neck and back from it. I don't have any insurance. We hardly have any money right now and the health clinic wants me to get x-rays and at CT Scan. I found out it's going to cost me $1500. So that's out of the question. I'm an athlete so I know about stretching and yoga and many relaxation techniques but nothing is working. I pop ibuprofen all day to no avail. The stress from all this is sitting right directly on the back of my head. It's killing me.
That's one reason I want to walk away from this. I've had enough pain internal and external. But I know I won't.
Thank you for all of your help. You have helped me focus a little better - even though it doesn't sound like it.
I try reading a lot of posts on this forum. It's tough sometimes. Others are going through tougher situations but I see so many who never reconcile. That's disappointing.
In my mind I'm trying to hold on to some hope. But on the same hand, I'm trying to focus on what to do if/when we divorce. My kids are my main concern. My step-daughter because she feels so neglected by her real father. I am doing everything to show her how much she means to me and how much I want to be her dad. My younger daughter because she takes things so personal. She's so much like my mother. They blame themselves for things have no part in. Ever since I caught my wife texting the other man my daughter has been anxious about things. She warned me prior that mommy was doing things and hiding things. After I caught my wife she left and my little girl cried and blamed herself.
I believe my wife had an eye opener after that night but I'm not sure if it fully awakened her to the reality that we are living. She gets so engrossed in her feelings and emotions she forgets how it effects those close to her.
Even though I'm walking this thin line between believing and not believing, I'm still praying. Faith of a mustard seed, right? I pray for God to soften my wife's heart to Him and to me. I pray that the Holy Spirit would help both of us to do what God wants from us. To help us move away from the destructive things in our lives and to see His hand in our lives.
Not sure what may come of this. Honestly, I've been slowly moving away from my belief in God. To me, if I see my child in so much pain I would be there to support, help, and love. If I'm God's child, why do I feel so alone? Why is God so indifferent?
Today the pain in my neck and back are tremendous. Almost unbearable. I took the day off from training even though I have one of the biggest week of races coming up in August.
I texted a good morning and a quote to my wife who is in Florida. I told her I would send her a heartfelt note each morning she was gone. I just want her to know that she is always on my mind and always in my heart. She loved the first one yesterday. I sent one this morning but haven't gotten a response yet. She's probably still sleeping.
Hey TPC,
I am sorry, you're in a low traffic part of this place. Not saying the advice isn't good, not saying that at all, just saying there isn't normally alot of traffic in here and without people reading not alot of posts.
The good news? Not alot of conflicting advice, nothing to overwhelm you.
I'll check out your thread later, but one thing popped out that I want to comment on:
I asked God to show me a tiny light of hope that I can cling to. A light to show me that there is hope in my battle to break down that wall. If there is not light, I'm walking out - somehow, someway.
That tiny light of hope? God works in his own way, you might be surprised looking back what that light of hope was. You might over look it at the time.
I personally asked God for strength. Not a sign, I figured there were more needy people than I with those signs, but a little strength?
There is also a problem with the sign from God. And that is, signs can be sent by anyone. They can be misinterpetted. And should things not work out between you and your wife? You can say: "Well, God never sent me that sign I needed, so it was His call."
My wife had an affair, at times I despaired over it and her choice, I pushed and demanded, "Him or me." Well...that seldom works out well.
My wife and I are married, happy and will always be working on it. But it wasn't easy. "Him or me?" That was a part of it...but not as big as you think.
Forgiveness, however; was.
And strength to make it through.
TPC,
It is hard for you to see right now but you have actually done a lot of the TIME piece of this thing without realizing it.
Most people here mess it up during the first year after the bomb drop. You have managed to stay together during this time.....that is good. The bad part is that you have done little or no work on you. Sorry for the 2X4, we have to deal with reality here.
Obviously you have learned how to detach "at times" but not in the long term since of the word. I think that your detachment at times has been driven but your own anger and self righteousness, that has fed the attitude that you have identified with which is......F@CK IT, I'M DONE.......but what brings you back is that you really aren't done.
It is okay.....that is actually normal. At least it was for me.
You have a lot to work on and it will be a challenge because your W is actually showing some signs of wanting your marriage to work..........hold the balloons and confetti.
Reconciliation is much harder than waiting for our spouses to decide that they want to work on the marriage.
And to be clear, you are NOT in reconciliation.
Typically what happens in these nightmares after the bombdrop is that the couples usually separate physically, sometimes under the same roof sometimes under separate roofs.
What happens during this time is that the WAS embraces their new found freedom and within a short amount of time they realize that the "grass ain't so green".
During that same time, the LBS pines after, begs, crys, pursues and otherwise drives the wayward spouse further away, confirming their decision to leave. After a while the LBS realizes what is not working and starts to detach from the situation and then starts looking inside themselves, identifies the causes of the problems the WAS pointed out and maybe identifies some other character flaws, this is much easier to do when your spouse is not under the same roof.
Once the LBS really starts to fix their issues they realize that they are really an okay person and that their wayward spouse is an idiot, this is where the anger comes in and needs to be dealt with.
TPC you are somewhere right around here.
She gets so engrossed in her feelings and emotions she forgets how it effects those close to her.
It is not her feelings that are effecting others it is her actions.
Her actions is how SHE is dealing with HER feelings.
You would be smart to set aside YOUR feelings for a moment (hard to do when you are in pain) and REALLY try hard to understand her feelings before her choice to have an affair, her inability to end it and her struggle to recommit to the marriage.
Look up posters like Sandi2, or 25yearsmlc, both have excellent perspectives on what it takes for a WOMAN to get to the point where she steps out on her marriage. More importantly they can tell you how hard it is for them to let go of the OM and risk coming back to you.
When you truely "let go" of your pain then you will be able to do this. I can see it in your posts that you start to understand your W, but then you move into YOUR pain and it gets in the way of real progress within YOU.
As a fellow Christian it pains me to see someone question their faith, I do understand your doubts, I would tell you to dig deeper brother. HE will not forsake you, His plan is perfect and more importantly HIS timing is perfect..........we are the ones that have trouble waiting on HIS timing.
With that being said about your faith, please, please, please avoid discussions of her affair and the Bible......trust me she knows that it is wrong and does not need to be reminded......
That's one reason I want to walk away from this. I've had enough pain internal and external. But I know I won't.
Here is thing......walking away does not end the pain. You know this, if not hear it now......YOUR pain ends when you decide to stop letting HER actions hurt YOU......
and
your pain will end or at least there will not be enough room for the pain if you start being HAPPY again.
Make sense????
When you start to realize that YOUR success, YOUR life, YOUR GOALS, YOUR HAPPINESS is not tied to your marriage or your Wife then the PAIN will start to subside.
When you can really detach from her actions you can stop looking at her and start looking at YOU. Focusing on YOU, Focusing on YOUR children, Focusing on what YOU want to acheive in YOUR LIFE.
Then you will discover how to make YOU HAPPY again.
This is the key to saving YOUR marriage, or at least having a chance at saving your marriage. (which I think you do have a good chance of doing
)
How can I make progress with our marriage and myself knowing (or at least thinking) she's still with this other man? Even if it's talking on the phone. I feel like such a whimp. I'm letting her do it while I sit at home all cheery like. That's got me so stressed.
This is the challenging thing that is unique in your situation......typically I would tell posters to not even talk to their spouses until the WAS wants to try to make it work and is willing to break all ties with the OP and have a "plan" in place so that when your suspicions come up there is a way put those fears to rest.
In your case if you tried to do this it would just come across as controlling and would be a major set back.....ther will come a time where you will be able to tell your W about your needs.
You have already done this once and you did it well, just need to add to it to make it complete. This is best rehearsed and presented in a conversation that she iniates not you.
It would go like this.....
W, I am glad you are interested in how I am feeling. This is how I feel when you talk to OM. (insert what you said before, it was awesome!!!) It hurts me when you have any contact with him and quite honestly we cannot work on us unless he is completely out of OUR lives. When you are ready to work on this us I would welcome the opportunity to sit down with you and talk about what that would entail. She might tell you that she is working on the marriage already and in her mind she is........acknowledge this and thank her for her decision to work on the marriage.
At that point you would have to say;
As long as you have ANY contact with him, I can not work on the marriage with you. (less is more here.) Just as you have needs, I do too. I need to feel secure that He is not in the picture at all. When you are ready to forever end any and all contact with him, I will work with YOU on US. She may at that point agree to no contact, at which point you would explain to her how a transparency plan would work.
How this is presented would be very delicate in your case, because your W is already making moves back towards the marriage and you do not want to erase that progress.....
More later......
hang in there
cheers
The good news? Not alot of conflicting advice, nothing to overwhelm you.
I see that Jack posted as I was working on mine. Sorry for the length BTW. I have been working and coming back and forth to write the previous post. That is probably why it is so long, LOL.
He is right about that up there.
TPC your situation again is unique......the common advice might not apply.......
cheers
Thanks again. The post was extremely helpful and I understand completely what you have stated.
It's quite motivating to say the least. So much so, I almost started crying a bit. (The part about God).
Not cool though when you're at work. Ha.
I needed this today. Big time.
Hey TPC,
I wanted to continue my thoughts around how to deal with YOUR feelings around your W's contact with the OM.
We are men and we are typically very "action" oriented and putting something in place that would prevent her from doing something would really help you deal with your feelings......but in a very "external" kinda of way.
meaning.....
as long as there is no external action (contact with OM) you do not experience the feelings.
Your first inclination will be to have that discussion I outlined in my previous post so you will no longer have to experience those feelings........this would be a huge mistake.
I only presented it to answer your question......once your W is really committed to working on the M would that approach work.
The trick is to deal with your feelings or actually change your feelings by changing how you view your W's actions. This is part of real detachment.
This where you should read up on some of Sandi2 posts, she explains a woman's feelings quite well.
And like it or not your children are now involved also. Your W now knows that she is not only being "watched" by you but also by at least one of your daughters. This equals pressure.
Pressure is not good.
Also it instills fear in your daughter, she is scared that her parents are going to split. She is on the look out. I hate to kind of lump more sh!t on you but you got to be able to take in the full picture to modify your behavior moving forward.
This all gets easier when the changes in you happen for real and you don't have to actively think about it.......this will take a long time too........TIME is the constant here and it takes a lot of it....for YOU....for YOUR W......for YOUR Marriage and even for YOUR KIDS.
As you read things here, my hope is that your HOPE is renewed....
however.....wih that renewed HOPE needs to be Patience that is HEAVENLY sent. That should be your prayer.........THINK OF THINGS IN HIS TIME.........I mean really........Weeks not days.....Months not Weeks......Years not Months.
YOUR kids are next on the list and I speak from experience here......handle this wrong and you can cause some serious damage.
My daughter does see nor speak with her mother at all and recently spent 10 days in the hospital because of thoughts of suicide.
Like it or not you are on display right now and your kids are watching you and your W. Show them God's true unconditional Love, Show them that you understand "for better or for worse"
Show them unwavering strength, be their ROCK. It sounds like you are doing this.....Bravo!!
And that brings up issue two. I am in so much pain in my neck and back from it. I don't have any insurance. We hardly have any money right now and the health clinic wants me to get x-rays and at CT Scan. I found out it's going to cost me $1500. So that's out of the question. I'm an athlete so I know about stretching and yoga and many relaxation techniques but nothing is working. I pop ibuprofen all day to no avail. The stress from all this is sitting right directly on the back of my head. It's killing me.
That's one reason I want to walk away from this.
As far as your physical health goes you do need to take care of yourself, of course bailing on the marriage is not go to make the stress go away, but you know that....
.
Look, when it rains it pours.....that is life.....this situation magnifies every other thing in your life X10.
I remember 3 weeks after the bomb our hot water heater went out and had to be replaced....I remember crying out to GOD in tears....."what else GOD???"
It just seems that way now.......Probably the biggest thing that I or anyone can communicate to you is that no matter what you are going to be okay.....
life will carry on and life will be good and you will be happy....
Sometimes it takes awhile to realize this........
This is the key point that allows you to "let go" and let things fall where they may......
Cheers
About six years before my first marriage went bust, we were having some rough times. We were deeply involved in a church in town, so we saw the pastor for counseling. We asked and expected that our situation would be held confidential.
After a few weeks we met a fellow member of the congregation at a local bank and were asked how we were doing with our "problem." We were stunned.
The pastor had shared some of our issues with a few members of the church, presumably to have them pray for us. I had wondered verbally at why it seemed several of our friends at church had seemed distant to us; now we knew why.
I walked away from that church and never took my family back again. I was mad at them and consequently mad at God for allowing it to happen.
Six years later my then wife attempted suicide, was found by myself and our youngest son lying beside a lake waiting to die from a pill overdose. She survived, but was never the same, began a life that was the complete opposite of everything she had ever been (including numerous affairs) and secured a divorce from me in barely three months. She gave up any custody of our youngest who was 14, then moved 500 miles away to chase after a man she had a crush on when she was 16.
I had no church family to turn to. I was too ashamed to turn to my family members. I was devastated, broken, and alone.
In my desperation (because I seriously attempted at least twice to simply check out) I cried out to God.
It was no high and mighty prayer. Most wouldn't even call it a prayer; it was more like a scream. I pointed my finger at Him and asked Him when he was finally going to have enough of me.
Eventually I got it out. Eventually I got quiet. Eventually I started to listen.
I'm not going to throw some old church cliche at you; I honor your pain too much to do that to you. I will only tell you that God has heard every word you've spoken to Him. He has felt every single tear that left your eyes, felt every pain in your heart and body.
Sometimes it's hard to speak when you're trying to carry your friend's burden, you know? God has sustained you so far. He's helping you even now to carry this load. Don't doubt that for a minute.
I wondered for a long time why God allowed my wife to take us to divorce. We had promised to never allow that to happen, and we were both Christians. Why didn't he stop her?
I believe that He could have. I also believe that if He would have, He would have been taking away the thing that makes us most precious to Him.
The right to choose.
You don't just carry the burden of your marriage for the two of you right now. You also carry the spiritual burden for the both of you. I know you're tired and spent, but I promise that God is sufficient.
Rejoice in the Lord and allow Him to renew your strength. Let Him know that YOU know He is there, that you KNOW He's been trying to help, and ask Him if He will continue to be your strength.
Because He will.
I'm not a religious whacko. But in reading your thread, the thing that touched me the most was that you have felt the same spiritual abandonment that I felt like I was experiencing. I KNOW how that feels.
Even better, I KNOW what it feels like when you finally work alongside Him. You NEED HIs peace and He wants to give it to you.
You are an honorable man. You have stood for your marriage and you labor even now trying to bring healing to your family. God honors that.
As others have said, there are things you couldbe doing to ease your load, and I will share my thoughts on that with you.
But for now I wanted to tell you what I'VE heard after reading your story.
God is with you. Right beside you.
Say hello.
Blessings,
Bill
You guys don't know how much you've motivated me to get my life back in order with God and with my marriage and myself.
I had a good night last night. My wife is out of state visiting her sister with my two girls. I don't get to talk to her much so I get kind of antsy. Last night I put my phone away from me because I was constantly checking it to see if I missed her call. So, I settled in and watch a good movie with my best bud - my dog.
She called and was real upset that I wasn't with them. They went to an island on the outskirts of Florida. They stayed in a beautiful motel - the luxury suite actually that her very well off sister paid for. It was huge and beautiful and romantic. But without me there, she said, not romantic enough.
I almost started crying. (I haven't cried this much my whole life and I had a very abusive childhood.). Anyway I told her I was real sorry but my job has really gotten in the way of this one. Which it has. I have a project that needs priority to be out the door sooner than expected.
I hope this plays out the best for us. Meaning: That she will realize how much she wants my companionship instead of someone else.
Each morning I wake her up with a text straight from my heart and it seems to be opening her up. Or taking a brick from the wall she's built between us.
Another thing I've been doing that I've never done before when she's out of town is to make sure she's having a good time and not worrying about me and my attitude. I'm constantly encouraging her and trying to motivate her and the children to make the day special. And I really mean it.
Thanks again, gents. This day has started out nicely. I hope it lasts.
tpc,
From what I can see, there seems to be a struggle between your head and your heart reconciling . Your head is going one way, and your heart wants to hide until this all is done.
I'm not sure things work that way, and at some point, one of them is going to win out over the other. And usually, it is the side we don't want, yet we did nothing to work towards the other possible outcome.
One of the things I see is that you mention HER brick wall, yet your brick wall could be just as insurmountable to your relationship.
One of the things that most of us here do is to be aware of our own pitfalls during the breakdown of the relationship over the years, we identify those things , and really take a hard look as to the reasons that we had become , they way we had become over the years.
Then the inner healing can really begin by forgiving ourselves. Because to truly forgive, it starts from within.
Forgving her will be a gift that you give to yourself. It will do very little for her in the short term of things. But you give that gift to yourself so that you can look at her without all of those "old" feelings coming up.
Through that forgiveness, your trees will bear fruit for a lifetime. You will become the light that people will follow through their darkness.
And that leads me to what I see as being your biggest obstacle in all of this....
The faith to do that. Your faith in God , and your faith in yourself, your faith in her, and the faith in the marriage.
Maybe that would be a good place to start ? To define how your faith flows through you , and what your faith means to you.
To identify that God did not do this TO you, rather he did this FOR you.
One of the things I have found is, that God gives you exactly the problems that you need, to fix yourself.
How have you viewed, or maybe addressed the things that he has already given you a sign, to address in your life ?
I also that believe that God doesn't play too vital of a role in our inner most personnal relationships. I think that he puts us in opportunities, and relies on us to foster and nurish those relationships.
He has put you in a good place, to renew something that you hold sacred in your heart.
Sometimes, finding the blessing is the hardest part...
I'm glad you are having a good day....
Peace to you
M1
He has put you in a good place, to renew something that you hold sacred in your heart.
Sometimes, finding the blessing is the hardest part...
This ^^^^^^^
Beautifully said.
These messages you've been sending each morning...expressions of your true recognition of what she means to you. Despite all that has happened.
I see many on this board who talk about how an affair is a dealbreaker for them, and I think, "Wait till it happens to you before you take that position."
I know you've read this probably many times before...
Love is patient . Love is kind . It does not envy, it does not boast , it is not proud . It is not rude , it is not self-seeking , it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs . Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres .
Love never fails. A DB'ing approach that operates with these principles in mind, is going to succeed.
Period.
Success is measured in lots of different ways here. Most think of reconciled marriages, and that is of course our hope for all.
But for me, success is navigating your way through this crisis, finding (as Mach has said) the "blessings" it brings, becoming the man or woman we always should have been, and being able to deal with our spouse in love and respect, regardless of what our final relationship happens to be.
YOu have a real shot at grabbing the brass ring here, I honestly believe that. But it starts with YOU.
If you can't forgive YOURSELF back to your God, how will you ever forgive your wife back to your marriage?
Ultimately your wife will have to choose to join you in this effort. I would say that you are already seeing flashes of her moving in this direction. But it will continue to be a work in progress. It's NOT as simple as simply changing her mind, and you have to accept that and embrace that. It will be hard. Sometimes incredibly hard. But YOU have to carry the load for your family right now.
And actually that's not completely right.
Because HE will help you carry that load.
If you let Him.
Blessings,
Bill
One last thing...
Filling the empty spaces while your wife works on traveling HER journey is often maddening.
This is YOUR time. Don't fill your days with ways of reaching her. All that will do is cause you to overload her. In the end, what you designed to draw her to you, will actually serve to push her further away.
She has to be the navigator of her journey. If she needs or wants you alongside her for any part of it, she will let you know.
For example, your daily texts seem to be working. She is accepting them as peace from you. So that's a good thing.
When you start having conversations that are born out of your fear and frustration, she will sense that and recoil. She will pull away. That is your sign that she's not ready for that stuff yet.
So what do you do?
You take the focus OFF your wife and you place it ON you.
There are ways that YOU contributed to this fracture in your relationship. Spouses don't enter into affairs in marriages that are healthy and whole.
So what was your role? How did you contribute to the distance between the two of you?
These are the things that deserve your attention NOW.
My friend, if your wife returns home to you today, broken and contrite, and expressing her love and committment to you, and you haven't made changes to who YOU are...well, you will be back in this position again before long.
That is YOUR work for now. And just maybe, if you spend more time working on you, really looking deep inside at how you've become slack, turned into less than you were when you married, you might find it easier to make it through the days without focusing on her so much.
Trust me, she will appreciate the lack of focus.
Blessings,
Bill
My friend, if your wife returns home to you today, broken and contrite, and expressing her love and committment to you, and you haven't made changes to who YOU are...well, you will be back in this position again before long.
Yup......exactly what I was thinking too Bill.
Thank you guys. This is exactly what I needed.
Indeed I need to work on myself. And I plan on more of it.
Lately, I've just felt like I've failed at so many things. But I will change my outlook and in-look, if you will.
Awesome. Just awesome support.
Like a sign awesome?
Food for thought.
By the way, I've been entrenched in sandi2's stuff. And WOW what parallels I could draw with what she went through and my wife.
I really wish my wife could read some of it. It's an eye opener. But there' no way in Hell, Michigan I would put it under her nose right now.
I really wish my wife could read some of it. It's an eye opener. But there' no way in Hell, Michigan I would put it under her nose right now.
Nope....
You are the one here, you are the one who "gets" to do the work.....
Later, you will see , that the "get" to is exactly correct...
What she has given you is truly a gift, and in time, it will feel that way to you as well...
It's all about perspective my friend...
By the way, I've been entrenched in sandi2's stuff. And WOW what parallels I could draw with what she went through and my wife.
Another cautionary note.......
You are going to start to remember events in your marriage where you may have said something, or done something or otherwise been a complete a$$ and start to "see" things from her perspective.
There might be a tendency, or at least there was for me, to apologize for every thing I could think of that I ever did or didn't do in my marriage. Don't do it unless she brings up a specific event and then you can say.....
I now understand how that made you feel, it has taken me a long time to come to this realization. I am sorry I acted/said that and I know I hurt you and I am sorry. Short and simple, again less is more.
Rather than "tell" her of your revalations and how you are going to change......show her. Actions speak louder than words.
TPC, the light is going to come on for you very quickly and you may want to share this bit of news with your partner in life.........and why wouldn't you......up until this point in your life, this is going to be the biggest thing that has ever happened to you.
This is YOUR journey........come here, share with us......share with your W by becoming the MAN she can not resist.
Cheers
Like you said, MHL, I did do that at first. I've since stopped telling her I was sorry for every little thing in the past. If she brings it up, I listen intently, tell her I'm very sorry, and move on.
I still have a long, hard, tough, bumpy, narrow road ahead. But you guys are making the trip worth it.
I've learned so much here and continue to learn every day. Just from last night and today I feel like I've had a full college course on woman and infidelity.
I have a dilemma:
My wife is out of town and since then she has been wanting to start sexting on our phones. I'm not afraid to do that. I mean, I wouldn't mind flirting with her any time. To me, she's still the most beautiful woman I know. She turns me on in so many ways. And I tell her constantly - always have.
But, it's what she used (or still does for all I know) with the other man. I don't want to be him. I want to be someone totally different. Yet, I want to be someone that interests her.
What should I do? Should I tell her how I feel? Which I'm afraid will totally squelch what we have going right now.
I've been texting her every morning, when I get up to train, with a romantic text and letting her know that she's always on my mind. She's been really opening up to me because of them. She's even told me she loves and missing me really bad.
Yesterday I tried a little but I couldn't open up really. I tried to show (or text) how gentle and loving I wanted to be with her. How softly and lovingly I want to kiss her. I wanted to be more passionate than just dirty. Eventually we would have gotten there, maybe. But a friend showed up last night and we talked til 11pm. Plus, I didn't want her to be on the phone while she should be with her family and the kids.
She's really addicted to this stuff. And I don't know how to approach it. Today, just a few minutes ago, I could tell something was on her mind but I didn't want to pry. Instead, we said our "goodbyes" and got off the phone. A few minutes later I asked if she wanted me to start "kissing" her again - where I left off last night. No response yet. Which isn't bad. There on a boat off the coast and probably occupied.
What do you guys think?
Questions instead of answers, sorry...
If she had not done that with the OM, would you be hesitant still?
Are you afraid your wife is being odd? Is it possible that the affair opened her up sexually?
I'm not sure how you feel about this, but my thoughts run this way.
As long as it's not a turn-off for me, this is something she wants to do WITH ME. That can't be a bad thing, right?
Affairs are horrible, we all agree. But good can come from bad. Can you live with benefiting from her being more open or more aggressive sexually because of what happened?
I think I would enjoy being the object of her attention.
If you're uncomfortable, then ease away from it.
Blessings,
Bill
I'm only uncomfortable because I know where it stemmed from.
She is different now in the bedroom. Not complaining because of how great it is sometimes. It's just strange on occasion. She's started talking about different things that we've never brought up before.
I guess I'm just dealing with a whole new woman.
I understand that it's tough.
Something that you have to come to grips with, I think.
I'm no expert, and my thoughts come mostly from reading and observations of threads on this site, but I do believe that when a person goes through a life crisis, they emerge changed.
Some changes are good. Some maybe not so good.
Infidelity is a tough one. You need to work hard on dealing with that issue and being sure that you are both forgiving for real, and dealing with related issues, like this greater openness about sexual things.
I'll repeat what I said earlier. If your wife makes the choice to return and rebuild your marriage, and the final result is a new life together, I think you can accept being the one she shares this new openness with.
You just have to deal with the baggage correctly along the way.
Don't let this become the fly in the ointment as it relates to the work that you've been doing. Stay strong.
Strength and honor.
Blessings,
Bill
Thanks, Bworl.
Some of this is just really trying to cope with this new life I've been tossed into. I think guys settle into things. We don't like change so much. And in the past 7 months I've gone through some radical changes within myself and within my marriage. Not to mention seeing some radical changes in my wife.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Journaling here:
I haven't trained outside in a week or so and the temperatures are just ungodly. After almost 100 miles all I could do was soft pedal home. On the main road toward my house there is a steep, two-step, hill that I have to climb. On days like this, where I'm practically crawling, I'll count the pedal strokes just to keep going until I crest the hill.
It makes me think of the situation I'm in with my marriage. There are days where I want to quit and I'm just crawling. I've been hit from several different directions. Whether it comes from my wife's indifference, our finances, my lack of motivation, my faith - or lack there of, or bad days on the saddle. Those are the days I need to just count the pedal strokes. Count each minute as a successful journey.
"You've made it through that minute. Now get through the whole hour. Keep going. Keep pushing."
The Tour de France is a long, long journey of about 2200 miles. It last 23 days, with just two days off (21 stages). And even those two days, the racers usually ride for 4 hours so their legs won't become "dead wood" on the next stage. The man with the least cumulative time wins.
It's about making the right decisions, knowing when to attack, knowing when to wait, sitting in and recovering. It's about teammates. It's about rest. It's about eating right and proper hydration. It's a huge mental game where your body is telling you to give up but your mind and heart are yelling something completely different.
There have been men who have crashed, broken collarbones, and still finished the race. These men were known to grind down their teeth to fight the pain while still pedaling for miles and miles. Why? I believe some of us are programed to keep going no matter what. No matter the odds we want to fight to see the finish line - whether we win or lose. And sometimes it's not a good thing.
My friend emailed me the other day. He knows my situation. We've been friends for 30 years now. Good friends. One day his wife just up and left him. To him, no real warning. Nothing. She was just tired of it and left. He later told me in that email that he wished he was more like me; willing to fight. He complained that he gave up too easily in just about everything he did. He just let her go without so much as a squabble. He listed a half dozen things that he gave up on in his life. He was not a fighter, or so he thought.
I wrote back and told him that sometimes I wish I was more like him. Not giving up is a curse sometimes. I've hurt myself because I wouldn't give up - or at least take a break. When I say that I need to do something, I do it whether or not I really should. I've lost sleep, hurt my body, stressed my mind, broken my spirit because I don't know when to ease up. I don't know when to rest.
Yesterday, in the heat, I should have shortened my training ride because, in reality, I didn't need it. I needed more rest than miles. Mental stress is a major factor in training and it should really be considered in everything I do. But I stayed out longer than I should. Last night and this morning I'm paying for it. My legs hurt and cramp when I step the wrong way.
Guess what? I'm getting back on the bike because I have races in about 2 weeks. Sheesh.
I've had a pretty rough day today. Just mentally wretched.
I'm a youth at heart, I suppose. And because of it I listen to loud music sometimes. It drowns out a lot of the noise in my head so to speak. One song in particular, when I get to feeling like this, really helps me cope. Though, lyrically, it would seem that it would be more damaging than good. But I feel better after listening to it.
The Becoming
Nine Inch Nails
"I beat my machine it's a part of me it's inside of me
I'm stuck in this dream it's changing me i am becoming
The me that you know had some second thoughts
He's covered with scabs and he is broken and sore
The me that you know doesn't come around much
That part of me isn't here anymore
All pain disappears it's the nature of my circuitry
Drowns out all i hear there's no escape from this my new consciousness
That me that you know used to have feelings
But the blood has stopped pumping and he's left to decay
The me that you know is now made up of wires
And even when i'm right with you i'm so far away
I can try to get away but i've strapped myself in
I can try to scratch away the sound in my ears
I can see it killing away all my bad parts
I don't want to listen but it's all too clear "
I went over to my parents this evening for a family cookout. It didn't seem right since my wife and kids weren't there. They are still in Florida on vacation. But my father was in one of his ugly moods. That is, until he went out back and rolled himself one. Then he was tolerable. But it was still uncomfortable.
My father and I have always had a horrible relationship. He was abusive physically to an extent but mostly verbally. We cannot connect now. I know he sees me completely different now that I'm a grown man and seem to have my crap together. Little does he know though, huh? None of my family know what's going on in my marriage.
Anyway, after his walk out back and partaking in his medicine, he came back and sat down next to me. He told me he knew I didn't like him. That I hated him and he understood. But he wanted to tell me that he loved me and was proud of me. The only times he's ever told me he loved me or was proud of me was when he was stoned or drunk. So I don't take it too seriously. After that the evening was a bit uncomfortable. I managed to stay as long as I could and told my mother I loved her, said goodbye to my siblings, and walked. My mother knew something was wrong but she didn't pry.
My mood was off. I miss my wife and kids terribly. I'm completely insecure right now and have no clue what my wife is up to down in Florida. Or what she will want to do when she gets back. My prayers are that she will hold to her word that she wants to go to counseling and that everything between her and the other man is over.
I don't know. All I know is that I need to get it together before they get back. I bought them a "Welcome Home" cake and wrote them each a heartfelt letter.
Right now I'm beat, overwhelmed, and really feel like I need a good cry. "Big boys don't cry."
I must be a real, teeny tiny boy then....
The in-between times are often the toughest times. Idle time lets us think, and naturally we think about what is freshest on our mind - our crisis.
It's ok. Just make sure that you regain your balance, as you said, before they return. You've been in a good place for the first few days of their trip. Just need to get yourself back there.
Remember the mantra. All you can control is you. And how well you control you is a much bigger influence than anything that is going on with your wife. A good you is the best approach to what lies ahead.
You can do this. Find your peace again.
Blessings,
Bill
Thank you. You really help me get back on track. I don't know what I would do without this place and the good people in it.
I didn't sleep well last night. Just restless. I was on the couch and my dog was missing his family too apparently. Because he was all over me.
Got up early to train. Didn't feel like it. But there are many times I don't feel like doing the things I should. When I was done and in the shower I missed my wife's call. They're heading home. Can't wait.
Have a tough one on the phone when I finally talked to her. She seems down because she's leaving her sister behind. They don't get to see each other that often and it's tough to pull them away.
I tried to encourage her but I don't think I helped much.
So what do I do? Yeah. I tried reading into it too deep. I need to stop doing that.
For God's sake, man. Just stop.
But, it's what she used (or still does for all I know) with the other man. I don't want to be him. I want to be someone totally different. Yet, I want to be someone that interests her.
Do you know for a fact that she "sexted" with the OM? I don't ask this because I want to know about her but rather more about you and what you do and don't know.
This is why things change as you move from "detaching" yourself from her actions/words to "re-attaching" yourself to her.....
AND
it is okay, it is acceptable, it is an expectation and expectations are okay in a normal healthy marriage.
It is okay that I would "expect" that my wife not have an affair with another man......that is taking it to an extreme but you can grasp what I am saying.
When people come here we preach, plead, yell and otherwise beat people over the head to detach, detach, DETACH........right??
Well we get so used to that and it becomes part of who we are that we almost forget how to re-attach, whether it is with our spouses or someone new.
I have recently had challenges in this area as I am building a new life with my girlfriend, I have had discussions with someone else on the boards here recently about this very subject so it is "top of mind" for me also.
What should I do? Should I tell her how I feel? Which I'm afraid will totally squelch what we have going right now.
She's even told me she loves and missing me really bad.
This is where the advice might vary from person to person here on the boards and you know your sitch best and will make the decision that is right for you.
I will give you what "I think" but more importantly I want to explain the pitfalls of starting "reconciliation" without having laid out your "expectations" or "boundaries".
There are plenty of threads in piecing where the couple start "working" on the marriage again and the LBS never lays out a "plan" to help re-build trust again.....as a result this causes great pain and difficulty for the LBS and often will sabotage the reconciliation.
TPC,
This in a nutshell is your real dilema.........
She's even told me she loves and missing me really bad.
From her perspective and in her mind she may have already decided that she is going to "work on her marriage".
You guys already have one foot in "reconciliation'" or "piecing" and no one wants to see that progress erased.
however
without addressing your concerns
without addressing her concerns
without open and honest communication
the likelyhood that it will fail is high.
In Divorce Remedy MWD talks about how the LBS is responsible for carring on the marriage all by themselves and that is true.
When you move into piecing you are starting to move back to where both people are starting to "share" that responsibility again.
That is why reconciliation is sooooo hard, much harder than surviving the initial shock of the bomb and the time that immediately follows.
The WAW is trying to move from a place where it is "all about them" to one where they are once again a willing, responsible partner in a committed relationship and they have obligations to the relationship.
If you do not handle communicating your needs to your W in the right way then you risk the marriage......which is the fear you spoke of earlier.
Quite normal......for everyone.
Fear is not a good reason to avoid having a conversation with your W........ever.
Fear is ultimately what drives most of us to stop communicating with our spouses in the first place and probably is one of the main reasons our marriages got into trouble in the first place.
I think that you should welcome your W home with the girls and let that pass, there will be some anxiety of coming back together for both of you, no need to add to that feeling.
When the time is right for you and when you and your W can have some uninterupted time, I would suggest that you ask your W what she is feeling and what she wants moving forward.
You could state that you have enjoyed the time you guys have been together recently and the communication that you have had, after which you may ask "Are we working on us now?"
She will probably respond yes, after which you might share with her that you are happy with her decision and that you too want to "work" on the marriage.
I would not go into any details at that time about things you need or want from her, rather I would suggest finding a good pro-marriage counselor to have that discussion in front of. It is a safe environment for you both to start communicating again.
more later.......
cheers
I would agree...
TP, When you first started dating your wife, did you ever once ask her on a date to " Talk about your trust issues" ?
I would venture that that did not happen.
Some of your faith, and how it runs through you should be a part of this right now.
Have YOU addressed the things internally, that you needed to address ? Not because SHE wanted to see change, rather that YOU wanted to be different in those regards...
Maybe it's not a lack of faith, rather a lack of trust, in your faith ?
What do you envision your future with her looking like ?
How do you get there ?
Often, we work toward our goals , sometimes without even thinking in those terms..
I did catch her sexting the other man a few weeks back. I was told it stopped. But she lied before and we really haven't done anything to work on the trust issue.
What I've been doing more, but on the same line, was to be more romantic with my texts. Yes, flirty. But more subtle and definitely more passionate. I could tell that she was intrigued. At first, she wanted to get to it. I told her to be patient and let me slow us down a bit. I wanted to be more expressive with the details. More relaxed and gentle but passionate. She did slow down and it seemed to work. That is, until my phone started screwing up. All weekend my phone has been a problem. So we never got to finish. (And I was just at her hips. :P )
If this is what she needs to help her I'm all over it. No, I don't want to be like the other guy. I want to be better. I want her to feel as though this is really what's she wanted all along.
She should be home today. And I'm definitely going to try and find out what her goals are for us. But, like you said, I'm not going to push the issue right now. I want her to feel at home and at peace. She needs a little time. Hopefully we can connect tonight and just be loving. Hopefully that will happen. But again, I'm not going to force it.
I have a question here. Would writing out our goals separately help in any way? You know, about us and our marriage?
What about writing out questions we have for each other? Or expectations?
Just want your input on this.
And I appreciate all the help here. It really means so much. You guys are great.
I would agree...
TP, When you first started dating your wife, did you ever once ask her on a date to " Talk about your trust issues" ?
I would venture that that did not happen.
Some of your faith, and how it runs through you should be a part of this right now.
Have YOU addressed the things internally, that you needed to address ? Not because SHE wanted to see change, rather that YOU wanted to be different in those regards...
Maybe it's not a lack of faith, rather a lack of trust, in your faith ?
What do you envision your future with her looking like ?
How do you get there ?
Often, we work toward our goals , sometimes without even thinking in those terms..
Thank you. A lot of this hits home. I need a moment because I would like to address some of these. But I need time.
TPC,
If she was actually, "sexting" the OM a few weeks ago then the affair was not over and while you have been patient it may be time to do things differently.
I think tonight should be exactly as you said....a time for you two to reconnect emotionally, and possibly physically.....that is up to you and what you are comfortable with......
I think that once you show her that things are "safe" for her then that would be a good opportunity to have a discussion, maybe tomorrow night.
What is absent from your relationship right now is a "verbal" re-committment to the marriage for both of you......
that is the only thing that you need to talk about.
You want to know where her intentions are and you need to also let her know what your intentions are..........
meaning......
You need to tell her that you are committed to her as her loving husband and while you know that things will be hard at times she is worth it and your marriage together is worth it.
I would hope that she can articulate the same to you......after that you guys can talk about the "mechanics" of the reconciliation.......
Once you know she is committed then you can come back here with a list and we can help you with how to word your "needs".....
and also be receptive to hers.
Cheers
I would agree...
TP, When you first started dating your wife, did you ever once ask her on a date to " Talk about your trust issues" ?
I would venture that that did not happen.
Some of your faith, and how it runs through you should be a part of this right now.
Have YOU addressed the things internally, that you needed to address ? Not because SHE wanted to see change, rather that YOU wanted to be different in those regards...
Maybe it's not a lack of faith, rather a lack of trust, in your faith ?
What do you envision your future with her looking like ?
How do you get there ?
Often, we work toward our goals , sometimes without even thinking in those terms..
Thank you. A lot of this hits home. I need a moment because I would like to address some of these. But I need time.
Time.....
Such a gift..
To be able to give, AND recieve...
Take all that you need to process....
Just remember to give all that needs to be given, as well....
You have to fight against being driven by her words or moods.
If she's feeling down, that's not a bad omen for you.
More importantly, her feeling down doesn't have to mean you feel down or nervous or anxious or whatever...
I'm worried that you're expecting her return to signal the beginning of this team effort to rebuild your marriage. You've actually had a pretty good week even though you were apart, you've seen and felt some positive vibes in the relationship, and I'm worried that you are going to naturally expect what you see as the next step.
We've never talked much on here about your wife's issues, but from the little that you've shared (going to NA, lost two jobs to using, an affair...), I get the impression that your wife has some serious work to do on herself, maybe even before she can really commit herself to focusing on the two of you.
Just don't be in a hurry. That is so often the downfall. Expectations can be a killer.
If you're centered, if you're keeping yourself solid, if you're continuing to do the work on yourself and feeling good about how you are becoming and where you are...THAT is what keeps you at peace when interacting with her.
Never deal with your wife from a position of need or weakness. It will open the door to you doing or saying things you'll want to take back at some point.
Think about those verses on true love. Think on those as you wait for them to get home. Let those ideas guide you.
Blessings,
Bill
I'm writing some goals for me right now to help me focus - and to stay focused.
Stuff on training, diet, racing. Things I do have control over. Plus, I've written my 180s to help me focus on being a better person all around.
Some of the main things I need to focus on is controlling stress, fear, and anxiety better. And working on faith - and faith in myself.
Spot on about expectations. She needs a lot of work. She's talked about just that. How can she work on the marriage if she needs more work on herself.
I would agree...
TP, When you first started dating your wife, did you ever once ask her on a date to " Talk about your trust issues" ?
I would venture that that did not happen.
Some of your faith, and how it runs through you should be a part of this right now.
Have YOU addressed the things internally, that you needed to address ? Not because SHE wanted to see change, rather that YOU wanted to be different in those regards...
Maybe it's not a lack of faith, rather a lack of trust, in your faith ?
What do you envision your future with her looking like ?
How do you get there ?
Often, we work toward our goals , sometimes without even thinking in those terms..
The one thing that got me the most here was the question regarding our future.
And that's a tough one because my outlook is sort of foggy right now.
This hits me pretty hard. I look so negatively at it.
TPC,
I hope things go good for you and your W tonight.
Cheers
The one thing that got me the most here was the question regarding our future.
And that's a tough one because my outlook is sort of foggy right now.
This hits me pretty hard. I look so negatively at it.
Why is that ?
Are you saying that your past is defining your future ?
I hope that you had a great time last night...
Things were pretty good - though slightly marred, in my mind, by paranoia. Sometimes I cannot shake these delusions. And I think I still see where the bottom fell out of our marriage. It's just too fresh in my memory.
But I tried to shake it off and relax.
On the way home I stopped for some Japanese cuisine. Chicken, broccoli, white rice for me. Getting back into making myself feel better. Got home and the kids were on me, loving me and welcoming me. The wife came out of the kitchen all done up, looking spectacular as usual. Her hair is getting long and it's really looking good - just beyond that awkward mid length look she always hated. We embraced and kissed. My body really felt close to hers. I could have stayed there for hours but we stopped and began getting drinks and silverware.
Multiple thoughts crossed my mind while we kissed and preparing to eat. I just cannot shake them. No matter what I do or how much I try to control them, I'm always wondering what's really on her mind or what she really wants to do. And it never leads to me and her. It leads to her and another man. Does she want to be kissing me? Would she rather it be someone else? Am I stepping stone to something better? A practice dummy? A cheap knockoff?
[Expletive!!!]
We all sat down together and started chatting about the vacation they were on. All the fun things they did. All the bad things that happened, the arguments, the jealousies with all the grand-kids, which kids paw paw loved the most or showed the most attention to. Then talks about all the sea shells they found, the boat trip off the coast, the beautiful rooms they stayed in, etc.
My youngest made sure to bring up the fact that she thought mommy was a little inebriated one day while they were rafting. She has a problem of outing her mommy to me for whatever reasons. I think she believes it puts her on my good side. She's already on my good side and I try to warn her that it only makes matters worse when she does this. It has been happening a lot less these days. "Don't talk bad about your mother. She loves you and it hurts her when you do this," I say. "How would you feel if she was doing that to you in front of me?"
During our dinner I received a phone call from HP. My step-daughter's computer crashed and I took the initiative while they were gone to see what I could do about getting it fixed. It was a hard drive failure. The computer is under warranty and they were going to replace the hard drive for free. But it was going to be like pulling molars which have been rooted deep in my gums. I hated to take the phone call but I had to. It took up most of our dinner time but everything was underway.
Both my wife and step-daughter were extremely happy. I wanted to do this for both of them. First, because I used to not be the type to jump at fixing things. Second, because I wanted my step-daughter to see how much I really do care for her. I'll probably get her to help me install the new drive and reload software. Teach a man to fish ....
After dinner we sat on the couch to watch one of our favorite reality shows, "Celebrity Rehab." Like I've mentioned in the past, this show opens dialogue with my wife and I. We can connect to a lot of the issues presented on the show. The discussion of her NA steps, accountability, where addictions and problems stem from, and getting clean all came up. It was a good conversation and my wife sounded quite positive throughout.
After the show I got up and started getting things ready for the next day. I'm one of these guys who cannot feel settled if I have anything I can get ready. It's a must - always has been - and has been one of the major problems in our marriage. In the past, once I got home I would immediately get things ready for the next day. For work, my training sessions, my meals, etc. It was on my mind and I wanted it off so this was how I solved it. Just do it. My wife saw this as a threat. She felt everything I had to do always came before the family. There was no denying it. Now I sit and force myself to relax for a long while before even mentioning things I want to get done for myself. Honestly, it's one of the tougher things I want to control in my life. It truly is a selfish habit and it needs to be dealt with.
While I was quickly getting a few things done, my wife and daughter stepped outside for a moment to look at the shells they collected off the coast of Florida. They had a bunch of conks in a bucket with some water and bleach. Soon they came in holding one and took it to the kitchen to wash off. My daughter said she was upset since they didn't buy me anything while they were there. I assured her that I wasn't expecting anything at all. The trip was about them and not me. But they wanted me to take this special shell to work. I accepted it gleefully.
It sits on my work station desk between both of my monitors.
(Here's were anyone 17 and younger may want to go to the Nickelodeon website for some cartoons. It's about to get R rated).
My mind was still getting knocked about by paranoia and the temptation to force her into marriage submission. I want to know just what in the hell she wants out of her, me, us, and our future. I forced it back and tried to relax and only show a confident, mature, attractive man. We were on the couch again and not watching anything in particular. Just relaxing and making small talk. She was holding my hand. It was so comforting, so securing.
Does she really want to hold my hand or is she doing it because she feels it's what I want?
[Expletive!!!]
My wife and I, as stated in previous posts, have started being flirty through our texts. She wanted it and I tried to satisfy her. In the recent past we've also added some flavor in our conversations to each other to spark some interest in doing different things behind closed doors. So while we were sitting there I whispered, "I want to do terrible things to you in the bedroom." It's from a verse in a Nine Inch Nails song, "Suck." I listened to it on the way home and it sort of got stuck in my head:
A thousand lips a thousand tongues
A thousand throats a thousand lungs
A thousand ways to make it true
I want to do terrible things to you
She squirmed slightly and said, "Ooh baby. Don't say anything you can't back up."
(I don't know if any of you want me to continue. So, I'll stop here for a bit. Things happened, the room spun out of control, and we passed out. I acted like I was trying to win a prize. Sort of did. More later; about that and how I feel this morning.)
Multiple thoughts crossed my mind while we kissed and preparing to eat. I just cannot shake them. No matter what I do or how much I try to control them, I'm always wondering what's really on her mind or what she really wants to do. And it never leads to me and her. It leads to her and another man. Does she want to be kissing me? Would she rather it be someone else? Am I stepping stone to something better? A practice dummy? A cheap knockoff?
[Expletive!!!]
This gets better and easier when you start to feel better about yourself. There is a lot of self doubt up there......completely understandable.
It almost takes a little arrogance on your part.......
I am one hell of a man, heck I am a catch, there are plenty of women out there that would just die to be with me.This came for me when I started to accomplish some goals in my life and I started feeling better about me.
I think I said it before, but there are books out there that deal specifically with healing from infidelity and how to deal with the fears, images, thoughts and insecurities......I would strongly suggest looking at some.
My youngest made sure to bring up the fact that she thought mommy was a little inebriated one day while they were rafting. She has a problem of outing her mommy to me for whatever reasons. I think she believes it puts her on my good side. She's already on my good side and I try to warn her that it only makes matters worse when she does this. It has been happening a lot less these days. "Don't talk bad about your mother. She loves you and it hurts her when you do this," I say. "How would you feel if she was doing that to you in front of me?"
I actually got goosebumps reading that.......that is simply awesome and if you did that right in front of your W you get even more bonus points.
Bravo!!!
After dinner we sat on the couch to watch one of our favorite reality shows, "Celebrity Rehab." Like I've mentioned in the past, this show opens dialogue with my wife and I. We can connect to a lot of the issues presented on the show. The discussion of her NA steps, accountability, where addictions and problems stem from, and getting clean all came up. It was a good conversation and my wife sounded quite positive throughout.
I understand that your wife suffers from addictions and while you may want to help her and guide her, it could come off as judgemental and almost parental in nature.
Gauge her reaction the next time the show comes on and really try to think about how she might be feeling. She could actually welcome the show and the dialouge with you but is she doing that for YOU or for HER????
Maybe you guys can keep it light hearted sometimes too, meaning look for the evening that has no R talk, no addiction talk, just you and her being you and her.
So while we were sitting there I whispered, "I want to do terrible things to you in the bedroom." It's from a verse in a Nine Inch Nails song, "Suck." I listened to it on the way home and it sort of got stuck in my head:
A thousand lips a thousand tongues
A thousand throats a thousand lungs
A thousand ways to make it true
I want to do terrible things to you
She squirmed slightly and said, "Ooh baby. Don't say anything you can't back up."
(I don't know if any of you want me to continue. So, I'll stop here for a bit. Things happened, the room spun out of control, and we passed out. I acted like I was trying to win a prize. Sort of did. More later; about that and how I feel this morning.)
I know this is awesome and can be very fullfilling for you and her.........
Be aware of the message you are sending......
which is.....
Everything is okay, we are good and I am fine......which is what we preach......"act as if"
however that is within the context of trying to get your spouse to "want" you back.
I think your W wants you back, I think that you are doing all the right things to keep the road back to you smooth......
however you will eventually want those lines of communication with her to be OPEN and HONEST......
That means sharing how you feel..........right now you are saying that you feel fine.
We all know that is not the case......right????
I think that at some point when the time is right, you need to clarify with her what her intentions are and you need to communicate your intentions to her........
If not.......there will be pain in the future........for you......for her.......and for your girls.
You are doing good TPC.......
You are on the right track......
Time and patience brother.
Cheers
When I was feeling deep and darkly, I used to listen to "Wish" by NIN.
How are you feeling tcp?
Do not worry about the post or feel like your going to lose one of us. Vent away.
Paranoia has its place. But is that place here and now?
I don't feel fine at all. There are so many unanswered questions rolling around in my head.
There's things I want to talk about and do it openly, honestly, and lovingly. I never feel like the time is right because of what has happened before.
She has been in very dark places and when we talked she really pointed to us being apart. It's been a while but they're still fresh wounds to me.
My worst fear is that she's not ready to be transparent and truly honest. She's not ready for accountability.
Let me put the shoe on my foot for a change. Say I had an affair and my wife wanted me to give up my phone, never be on the computer alone, close my facebook accounts (any social media), go to be when she does, would I?
In my heart, at this moment, I could say, yes. Mainly because I'm ready to sacrifice whatever to prove myself to her. She may not be there yet.
She may not be there yet.
Correct.
Your justifying what you would do, based upon what you want her to do AND your pain from being the 'betrayed'. That answer is cut and dry. Black and white.
With some insight as a former WAH who also had an affair? My world was gray. It wasn't simple or easy, I am not suggesting you take pity on me...or her. I do not need it or want it. : )
She IS in a dark place, with very little white to choose from.
Let me put the shoe on my foot for a change. Say I had an affair and my wife wanted me to give up my phone, never be on the computer alone, close my facebook accounts (any social media), go to be when she does, would I?
In my heart, at this moment, I could say, yes. Mainly because I'm ready to sacrifice whatever to prove myself to her. She may not be there yet.
This is the kind of thinking that WILL bring you success!!!
You are right, and this is where reading up on Sandi2's posts and 25yearsmlc also has a great perspective on how a woman feels.
It takes time for them to "Want" you back, so much so that they are in a place where they are willing to help re-build that trust with you.....ie, transparency, boundaries and all the other mechanics that might be employeed.
Ultimately in the end it is up to you to slay those DEMONS running around in YOUR head.
With that kind of thinking up there, where you are taking into account her "feelings" both past and present.....YOU will chose the path that is right for you and her.
There's things I want to talk about and do it openly, honestly, and lovingly. I never feel like the time is right because of what has happened before.
My worst fear is that she's not ready.......
You know your situation best, and it may not be the right time, right now......I do think that eventually it will need to happen.
The challenge will be to discern between "when the time is NOT right" and "your fear of how she might react" as to when you will have that discussion with her.
The fear is more easily conquered when you "feel" good about yourself, you are strong, confident and sure of your decisions. You know that no matter what you will be fine and that you will be happy.
Usually we tell LBS to detach and distance themselves from their spouses in order to get themselves in that "place" where FEAR melts away.
Typically exposing yourself to a spouse that is still engaged in destructive, hurtfull behavior will hamper your efforts to work on YOU.
In your case, your W does not seem to be engaged in this behavior, her actions are matching her words, she is doing and saying the things you want to hear.
But you have been "burned" before and are treading cautiously....
which is smart.
You are very self aware TPC.........does not neccessarily make the steps you have to take any easier, you just see those steps more clearly than others.
Continue to be the MAN, FATHER and HUSBAND that anyone would look up too........in this you cannot go wrong.
Cheers
I'm not sure if you were being serious or over the top with the "give up the phone, shut down facebook," etc. stuff.
If it was serious, I think that kind of approach is not likely to ever succeed.
It may be what you WANT right now, in your pain and sense of betrayal.
But I don't think that stuff is doable.
Free access to her phone to check on messages and calls?
The password and befriending for facebook?
TRY to go to bed at the same time?
Those are reasonable and doable. I don't think the others are.
Is your wife in need of counseling right now for her substance abuse problem? Because if so, she really needs to do that. How can she be expected to make marriage type decisions when she's wrestling with whether to use again or not?
Why would you expect her to?
Look, she's home. She's giving off (if your posts are accurate) lots of signs that she wants in right now. I know in the end that's not enough, but there is something to be gained by being by her side while she finds a grip on her problem.
YOu've got to find a way to battle your mind.
Seriously.
You're desire for addressing the affair and future of the marriage is fair enough, but you're letting feelings drive your attitude.
You're not being an ostrich sticking your head in the sand if you simply allow for some time to decompress. You just have to find a way to handle it yourself, because I can see that's a big challenge for you right now.
There's nothing particularly wrong I wouldn't think, with telling her that at some point, when she feels ready, the two of you need a brief conversation about where you are and where you're going. You can tell her that you don't mean right now. That you're just enjoying having her there and learning how to be close again. But it does have to happen sometime.
Blessings,
Bill
Thanks guys. You tend to make things pretty clear for me and I really need that.
I'm not going to rush anything. Just relax, be patient, and see what happens for now.
I also need to back off from making sure she feels good (my definition of feeling good). I get too worked up not knowing what mood she will be in. I need to be supportive, yes. But I don't need to push my help on her. She's always expressed that she used to be so independent and she misses it sometimes. I'll just let her have her space, let her do her thing, and not pry.
In the meantime I'm setting up my goals for next season. This season has been a wash. Too much stress. Too many bad habits. Not enough sleep. Time to slowly put things back in order for myself and get back on the right track to feeling better physically. Hopefully that will allow me to start feeling better mentally as well.
Door flung wide open in our relationship conversation tonight.
I'll give the goods tomorrow.
I was outside putting away yard equipment last night. My wife was outside watering her garden and talking on the phone to her sister. While I was cleaning up some debris, I heard her say, "No, I haven't. No, I'm not going to." Then she repeated herself. To me, it sounded like she was trying to be vague about her answers.
For whatever reason I just didn't want to let it slide anymore. I wanted to know what was going on behind my back - if anything. After I was done with my cleaning and seeing that she was off the phone, I approached her. "I want to know what you and your sister were talking about. Not now. But after we get inside and get cleaned up." I wanted to sound direct as possible. She looked at me as if I had caught her stealing a cookie from the jar.
Once inside I kept pretty quiet. Not intentionally, though I was glad to make her think about it for a while. She asked if I wanted to jump in the shower with her. (Like I was going to say, "no.") "I guess."
So there we were in the shower. I was remaining quiet and just washing myself waiting for her to bring it up. She did.
"What did you hear me say?" She asked. I told her but did not go into how it sounded vague or like a question she was trying to skirt. Though she was.
"What did you mean bu that?"
"She asked if he had called and I said, 'No he didn't'. She asked if I was going to call him and I said, 'No, I'm not.'"
Immediately, I sensed BS. So I just up and said, "I can't believe you. You said that the first time, 7 months ago. So." And I shrugged.
"And I tried then too."
"Yeah. And what happened?" I was being a prick, I know. But my macho brain and ego were in overdrive. They were tired of watching me become, what they thought, was a doormat and wanted to stand up. "What makes me believe you this time? What's it going to finally take for me to gain some trust?"
"What do you want me to do?" She was in defense-mode. Macho and Ego were there telling me exactly how she asked that question. It wasn't in a tone that expressed true concern. But more on the line of, "What could I possibly do different? I'll never make you happy so why try?"
"What?" I asked. "Would you want me to do if the tables were turned? What would make you feel better and more trusting of me?" I was tired of the awkwardness. There I was standing there naked in the shower arguing about infidelity. I was ready to get out.
"I don't know what you want me to do. You're not me and I would probably do things different." Her tone was still being screened through Macho and Ego and they weren't taking it well.
"I'M TIRED OF [blank]ING WONDERING WHAT YOU'RE DOING BEHIND MY BACK! STRESSED! WORRIED! ANXIOUS! It still seems like your hiding your phone from me, your being secretive ... [blank] like that. I'm just tired of it. You don't tell me anything you want to do. You just do what you do and I'm suppose to guess where we are."
"YOU DON'T HAVE TO GUESS ABOUT ANYTHING!" She yelled back. "YOU DON'T THINK THIS IS TOUGH ON ME TOO? THERE'S SO MUCH [blank] IN MY HEAD ABOUT THINGS AND I'M TIRED OF IT." We weren't making ground on this so I decided to get out of the shower.
Drying off, I said calmly, "I'm putting a towel on the hook her and one on the floor for you to step on." Then I walked.
(Part 2 in a bit. It ended in the bedroom and I think we may have made some headway.)
Once we got dressed, we started relaxing on the bed and continued the conversation. Our daughters were leaving for a while so we could be more open about things.
The subject came up again about her personal issues with substance abuse, depression, guilt, and inner torment. Like before she stated that she had so many problems how could she possibly focus on fixing the marriage is she can't fix herself.
I agree to an extent. But what am I to do; stand idly by and watch her and us crumble away? She cannot find the motivation to start much now because, in her mind, there are way too many things to start. Which issue should be dealt with first? Which one will take the most work? More than likely the deep rooted ones within her spirit. Though she has this sense of failure that hovers over her constantly. Her mind cannot shake the notion that anything she tries she will fail.
What hope do we have then?
We talked a bit and both of us became impatient. Her with the fact that I can't recognize how my changes effect her negatively. What I do now makes her feel even that much more guilty about what she's done to me. My demeanor, my attention to her, my words of encouragement and love, etc. They are daggers.
I told her that those words and those actions are just as much for me as they are for her. But I do want her to know that I truly feel this way and always have. It was just in the past I was a piss poor person who didn't know how to express them.
Out of curiosity I asked if she would feel better if I stopped or at least slowed down for a bit until she felt more comfortable with who I was - or had become.
"No," she said. "That's just it. I love hearing them and I love the attention. It's just that I feel guilty receiving them. Every sweet text you sent me while I was on vacation I would show my sister. I looked forward to them."
"Okay." I wanted to get back to the her and us thing but by this time she was face down on the bed crying hard. I figured it would be best to let her have her moment and when she was ready she would start talking again. It took a while.
Surprisingly I had no fear, no anxiety over what was going on. I felt calm and at peace. If she would have told me she couldn't handle it any longer and waned out I think I could have said okay.
Maybe not.
We did eventually get to a point where we talked about boundaries, accountability, counseling, stuff like that. And even today we talked more about it. And there was no tension.
THAT was a step forward. Not feeling the tension.
After a while we just relaxed on the bed. It was getting late and we were ready to tuck in. She moved real close to me and started "messing around." Two nights in a row, I thought.
Oh well.
Your story is, I think, a good example of how the tried and true DB'ing principles don't work perfectly for everyone in every situation. This is why it's so important for each individual to have a good handle on who they are and who their spouse is.
To me the conversation was powerful. It was a compelling read for me. I am struck by the honesty in the things your wife was saying to you.
You know, I think often affairs occur because the one in the affair does not feel worthy of their spouse. I think they feel ugly and dirty inside, and they still want acceptance and love from someone, but don't feel they deserve to receive it from their spouse.
That's a really significant thought to ponder, especially given what your wife has shared with you.
I'm moved again to a place where I say that your most critical issues are not yet your marriage. They are with your wife. And I don't think they are even her addiction problems just yet.
She feels unworthy to be loved.
Well, there is incredible healing power in unconditional love. You were experiencing a taste of it with the daily text messages you sent while they were on vacation.
Think again what she shared with you about how much those messages meant to her.
It seems to me that you have a very necessary message to send to her, and you must be sure that she understands it clearly. But it's not about your marriage per se. It's about your love and devotion to her, and the strength that it has to overcome and see you both through whatever it is that she needs to do to feel whole again.
Man, to me? That's what those old fashioned wedding vows are ALL about. "For better or worse, richer or poorer, in sickness and in health, forsaking all others...till death do us part."
You've got a great opportunity to LIVE those words to your wife. All it takes you putting aside YOUR need for resolution on these marital issues....FOR A TIME. You'll get there eventually.
But you could help your wife HEAL. You could support her and show her that no matter what she is going through, she has an anchor that she can depend on.
Amazing stuff really. You are blessed.
Blessings,
Bill
Thank you.
Because of the past few days, I've been given hope. Something I desperately needed.
T,
I really enjoy watching you emerge from this cacoon you have been in....
Just be careful where that hope comes from..
Yes, you have made significant strides in communication lately.
But is that really from her ?
Or the fact that YOU have been doing some work on you ??
Let that hope be a beacon for her to see
Indeed. I need to be careful where my hope comes from. To be honest, the hope was in "us" and where our conversation led.
I need hope in myself more. So that whatever firey darts come my way, I will have the strength not to give up and stand tall. Not sure if I'm there - yet. But I've had some good friends on and off this board to help lead me in the right direction and stay focused.
Right now, my wife is at her NA meeting. She was asked to be treasurer at this group being that it's her home group and everyone loves her.
That's something that I don't know if I have conveyed here. My wife's true personality. Where ever my wife goes she becomes everyone's friend. She has a fun-loving personality. She loves to laugh. She loves to meet people. She's bubbly and wonderful to be around. I see it. She doesn't.
We got into it when she got home last night.
She started asking questions about my relationships. I had no problem telling her about them.
But then she asked if I called the other man and told him to stop calling her. This was the second time she asked that. The first, was the night before in our conversations in the shower.
It flipped me out. Now please take in consideration that I'm still working on this paranoia thing. I don't have it licked yet. So, why in the hell would she wonder that? The answer, to me, was why would I dare tell him to stop calling her. She misses his calls and I had no right. It's unusual that he just "stopped." Yeah, she told him to apparently. But he just stopped without any squabble. Plus, after I caught her she called him back later to tell him it was over. She said that he told her I called him.
I didn't. I did not. I would not. I don't have his number. I don't want his number. I don't want to say a word to this man. I would like to strangle him. But then I told her I always thought it was odd that men fight the women's affair partner and not the woman. I mean, isn't it the woman's fault that they went outside the marriage in the first place.
How would he have know it was me in the first place? She told me that when he answered the phone that I hung up. No, if I wanted to talk to him I would have talked to him. And if she thought it would be better if I did, I would definitely give him a call.
She assured me that it wouldn't.
But, am I wrong for feeling this way? That she's upset that he's not calling or pursuing and I'm the reason?
She hardly ever asked about anything I've done. Who I've talked to about the affair. Now all of a sudden she wants to know everything. But that was her last question; Did I call "So and So?"
Hmm.
"One of us is lying to you. He says I called him, and I say I didn't. I hope you figure it out."
Maybe that's what I'll tell her. lulz
How do YOU feel about the interaction ?
J3B is right, one of the two of you is lying ( as she sees it ).
Sometimes , the more we push and defend ourselves, the more guilty we look....
Proof ?
Tell an alcoholic that they are an alcoholic, and listen to the excuses....(and defense kick in )
Honesty is the FIRST step in repairing broken trust....
Let your actions SHOW her that you aren't the one that is out, taking the truth for a walk...
I see what you guys are saying now. Thank you.
I need to talk about the good days as much as the bad or indifferent ones.
Yesterday was one of those good days. I felt relaxed and easy going. The night before, my wife went to her NA meeting and when she got back we sort of got into it with a few things. Though the evening didn't end with us both huffy in bed and not talking, it did end sourly. But she brought home a few books from her NA sponsor for loved ones of addicts. One book in particular was a devotional. That's the one I picked up.
Each morning before I begin my training session, I read. Mostly its from the Bible and then a few books I find intriguing. So after I read a few passages from the bible, I read a few days from this book. The pages were short but spot on. A few points hit home. I decided to take the book with me since my wife was working in my office some this week. Yesterday was a full day of her being there so I thought it would be nice to go to lunch and talk about the book. Maybe show her some places that got my attention.
On the way out the door I showed her the book and told her what I thought we should do. She was all for it. As with the show, "Celebrity Rehab," she really gets motivated to talk and discuss things she's dealing with and what addicts deal with in general. Telling her what I had planned sparked something in her.
At lunch we sat at a very crowded Chik-fil-A and ate. The book was beside us but I didn't bring up the subject of talking about anything I read in it. I wanted to see if she was interested enough to bring it up. So we chit chatted about work. She got to see first hand how crazy the office gets when deadlines are not only knocking on the door, but using a battering ram. It can get wild - but funny sometimes. It's a small firm and the personalities come screaming out when fires are lit.
After I finished my meal she looked up and asked if we were going to talk about the book. The door was open. And it was on. I turned to Day 3 and had her read. For some time I have tried to get my wife to set some goals for herself, some for NA and her 12 step program. She tends to look at her goals as one giant leap and not tiny steps. This day's devotional hit a home run with that.
Don't look at the big picture, but take each day, even break that down to smaller increments if you must. One step. Just one step at a time. Don't get hung up on making yourself better - perfect in your eye - in one fell swoop. But set small goals day to day, hour to hour, and see where that takes you.
"What do you see yourself doing when you get back to the office?"
"What about when we get home?"
"In the morning?"
Small steps. Small steps.
She loved it and we talked openly. When she gets motivated she gets loud. I know when I strike a nice chord because she brings the volume up and she starts talking fast. Two older ladies stopped eating and listened just as intently as I was. I didn't care though. Yeah, we were talking about drug use, NA meetings, our marriage, whatever. This is life, ladies. Enjoy it. And don't forget to tell your bridge club when you get back.
After that we went shopping for a bit before heading back to the office. She was real close to me, holding my hand any chance she could, or putting her hand on my knee when we were in the car together.
At the office I brought my work into the conference room where she was putting spec books together. She told me later she really like it. We talked, joked, and worked.
On the way home we had two stops. One was a close friend, a training partner, who had emergency surgery to have some of his small intestine and part of his colon removed. My wife used to be a home health care nurse and she dealt with this a ton. Again, she started talking loud to them, and real fast. But it was like a dam burst and all this knowledge came rushing out. My friend and his wife were amazed and began asking a lot of questions and for advice. They loved that she came with me and wants her to come to their house when he gets out of the hospital. It was pretty amazing.
After that we went to pick up one of her NA friends to take her home from her sponsors house. We talked about her meetings and how real they were and the fact that our oldest daughter loves to go with her. She says she learns so much. Again, this is life. This is real. I told my wife, if it was okay with her and her sponsor, I'd like us all to come and sit with her while she chairs a meeting. Our daughter's boyfriend too. He deals with a mother who drinks and was in an abusive relationship because of drinking. She loved the idea.
We picked up the young girl, who looked 20 years older than she said, and took her home. She talked about having to walk anywhere she needs to go, her mother who is in a wheelchair and on drugs, her little boy who was taken from her, and the day to day life of wanting to use. Life.
At home we collapsed. Our girls were on us about everything. No hugs, no kisses, no hellos, just needs and wants and complaints. Kids. Life. The good of it was they are very helpful around the house. It was clean. The beds were made. The dishes were washed and put away. Laundry? "You didn't tell us to do that." It looked like they cleared their closets and threw everything in the laundry room. Kids. Life.
So we started the laundry, ate, watched a little AFV, showered, fooled around, collapsed again, and falling asleep pretty fast. Life.
This morning I commuted by bike to use the morning as a training session. I have a five day, five stage race next week. The ride is two and a half hours one way in the dark. Just me, some music, the clear starry sky, and a smile on my face.
Life. And I wouldn't change it in for a new one.
Yesterday was one of those good days. I felt relaxed and easy going.
Kinda like you were when you first started dating ?
How did the dynamics of that day/night play into the confidence you displayed ?
I think you are finding your faith, and letting it lead your actions.
I kinda like the good updates...
: )
Just in the past few days (maybe a week) things have really changed. She's more open to talk. She's been really close and romantic. If I don't show her attention, she'll make sure I know she's there.
We went out with my siblings and their significant others last night and afterward decided to go to Wal-Mart for a few things. Our kids were out with friends so we had time to be close and talk. After parking the car we sat and she wanted to talk. It feels as though she needs reassurance or something. It feels really strange to me.
For fifteen minutes we talked about us, our future, our kids, her change of mind, lots of things. Her dam broke and everything came pouring out. Apparently, this trip to her sisters really gave her a change of heart.
Trying to push Paranoid Mind down.
Tpc,
I have been reading along...
You have some of my favorite posters here...
From a woman's perspective...
A woman who has had an affair...
Stop the monsters in your head...
They will be the downfall of this...
Your W did something horrible and hurtful...
She really is unsure if you can forgive her. She realizes that she has damaged your ego tremendously (hindsight is an amazing thing). She more than likely doesn't feel like she deserves to be loved by you or anyone else for that matter.
She really does need reassurance right now.
I know it doesn't seem fair, since she broke your trust, but it is how women work...it is one of those male/female differences...
I have come to believe that affairs affect men and women very differently. But in the end, in order to move past it, women seem to want the same result (whether they were the cheater or were cheated on).
To feel accepted and loved by their man. To know that they are wanted.
Your texts to her are helping her to feel that. Your physical attraction to her is helping her to feel that. (Although I will caution you, you have to show her in more than just a sexual way or she will probably begin to feel it is just her body you are after).
Those monsters, are going to be your downfall. Vent them here, and let them go.
There is nothing that she is going to do in the short term that can make them go away for you.
That takes time as well as you getting rid of them.
Keep doing what is working.
Stay strong and stay on the course you've already established.
Flashes of positives/success is not a sign for you to relax.
Your mindset has been the key so far. When you've kept it on things you CAN control, you've seen good things. It doesn't always work that way, you know?
Glad that you are getting positive feedback.
Doesn't change the work that you've been doing on YOU though, right?
Blessings,
Bill
No relaxing.
I have to try and stay on top of my game here. This isn't just about her, it's about making positive changes for me. These changes have not been fully ingrained into my being.
I do want my wife to know that she is just not an object, or a prize, I'm trying to win. She needs to know how I truly feel about her, about her emotions, about her healing, about her pain.
Every morning I'm reading a devotional for those who live with or deal with addicts on a daily basis. There is a ton of insight and motivation in this book. Though I've just started reading it, I feel it has helped my understand her and her issues better. It's easy to attach a label to her and call her an addict. But what do I gain?
Because I did not throw in the towel I believe I have just started the fight. Each morning I wake up not really knowing what she's thinking, what mood she will be in, when she may want to give up herself. Just last night we were doing touch up work on some of the painting we did the night before. I could tell she was agitated. The smallest task had her upset with herself. I suggested we stop. We did.
Soon thereafter we went to bed to read and relax. I told her that when I feel irritated and grouchy but have a training session planned I soon realize that I need to back off, maybe even skip the session. If I try to push through it I usually have a horrible session then it starts the whole day off on a sour note. "Let's just relax and read something to get our minds off things."
She did. What she wanted to do was to begin "Step 2" in her NA program. However, her and her sponsor never finished "Step 1" together. This was going to be trouble, I knew it. "Have you and Karen finished Step 1 yet?"
"No." She closed her notebook and NA book clearly upset. "I'm not suppose to be starting this yet. She told me not to until we finished the first step. It's just that I have so many things undone right now and I can't get my mind off of them." All our clothes have been laying around the house, in several rooms, on hooks hung on our doors. Until the closet is complete there's no reason to start hanging close in it.
"Look, it's getting late. There's really nothing we can do right now until morning. Just relax. We'll get it done. And you have all day tomorrow to do anything you want." I put down my stuff and picked up the TV remote. I flicked through some channels until I found something we both liked. She slid over next to me and put her head on my shoulder. I held her and we started watching our show. Soon, I could tell her mind was slowly ridding itself of the clutter and she was beginning to talk to me about the show.
Coincidentally, the show was about hoarders. My wife used to be a home health care nurse. Many times she found herself in houses just like this. And weirdly enough, every lady on TV that had a hoarding problem was associated with nursing somehow. We both found it amusing - in an odd sort of way. But we talked and joked and she seemed to relax and just enjoy us being us without much hindrance.
One of our daughters stayed at a friends. They started cheerleading camp this week and we riding together. Every morning I talk to her and encourage her to be the best she can, not to quit, and show them all that she was the best. This morning in particular she called me and I could tell she was tired and/or nervous. For at least 5 years now she cheered for a Pop-Warner football team. She was good. She could pick up the moves and jumps easily. There are some areas she struggles with but we are trying to break through them. By the end of our conversation, and my encouragement, her tone changed. It sounded like she was excited to go.
My oldest daughter was home but invited a friend to come over. Her cheer camp starts later this week. She's been cheering for maybe 8 years or so. Now in high school and on the varsity squad, she's hit the big time. She's also a flyer. Yikes! She is that good though.
My wife decided to let me go to sleep. I was dozing off and wanted to get up early to train for these huge races I have coming up. It's gotten the better of me. It's been 2 months since I've toed the line and I'm nervous. Now I have 5 races in 5 days and my mind is all over the place about it. My wife told me that she wished I was more in the mood to race. But how could I be, really? For the past 7 months I've tried to focus on something more urgent and more important. "I'm not too worried. I'm going to treat them like training. Hold on as best as I can and try not to expect anything. Just have fun."
What a load I was feeding her and myself. I'm very competitive and it's killing me knowing I'm no where close to being ready. I'm racing against some of the fastest guys in the state and it's going to be pretty nasty. Gulp.
She text me today and told me she was feeling real needy. Then she said it was something she needed to work on - for herself.
Right now she's with some friends at a restaurant. I can't lie and say I'm a little worried but I didn't show it in the least bit. I just made sure she had everything she needed and told her to have a wonderful time.
Last night was bad - for me.
I'm no where close to being comfortable with her gone most of the evening. My mind warps reality into nightmarish "what-ifs." When she's in a certain mood and has become distant emotionally, or gone and become distant physically, I fall off the program.
Even now, she seems distant - just emotionally - and I'm taken back by it. Wondering. Contemplating. Making up things in my head. These are the times I need to be strongest. These are the times I need to show courage and strength and confidence. Not only for her but for me.
Today there will be a lot going on. I'm racing this evening and won't be home until late. My wife is working this afternoon then has to go to her NA meeting. One of my daughters will be working so she won't be home. My youngest will be alone and she hates it. We have to try and figure out what she can do or who can watch her until my wife gets home later. With so much going on my wife sound stricken by worry and/or doubt. Or is that my mind making it so?
What I need to do is step up and make sure everything is taken care of for my wife so she feels less stressful. Or should I let her figure some of it out so she can have some of the independence she misses?
My mind warps reality into nightmarish "what-ifs." When she's in a certain mood and has become distant emotionally, or gone and become distant physically, I fall off the program.
Even now, she seems distant - just emotionally - and I'm taken back by it. Wondering. Contemplating. Making up things in my head. These are the times I need to be strongest. These are the times I need to show courage and strength and confidence. Not only for her but for me.
What I need to do is step up and make sure everything is taken care of for my wife so she feels less stressful. Or should I let her figure some of it out so she can have some of the independence she misses?
A LOT of what you talk about in that first quote is much of what I have to say here.
I would advise you to go with option B on this.
She NEEDS to figure her things out on her own as well. She is going to have emotional ups and downs , that is part of her journey through this.
Your consistant actions of showing love to her, will show through.
This is the connection that she needs to FEEL from you, that you are there for her. Whenever SHE is ready to talk about that.
Those monsters in your own head ???
Are you seeing any signs that they should still be there ?
Try to not let your faith dwindle when she appears to draw back, those times will happen during her reconnection process.
That time is for her ...
Try to reflect how far you have come, and the good times you have already experienced, to guide you through those rough nights.
No. The monsters are from my past. I've had a lot of bad crap happen to me throughout my life and I sort of expect it. Pessimist, huh? Or realist?
Today has just been one of those days and I need to be prepared for them. I put my guard down slightly and I see the effects now. Never. Put. Your. Guard. Down.
I'm standing strong, though. Pushing away the neediness and holding fast to confidence. I do slip, however. Sometimes it's easy to fall prey to my weak, initial thoughts and actions. The man I used to be.
I'm cool. I have a lot on my plate this week and I just need to be on top of it all and be confident, caring, kind, and loving.
No. The monsters are from my past. I've had a lot of bad crap happen to me throughout my life and I sort of expect it. Pessimist, huh? Or realist?
So....
Lets talk about them here , and try to kill the root of those monsters instead of trying to control the residual side effects of those problems....
????
Sorry I didn't respond sooner. I left early to go race. Did pretty good last night but killed myself to do it. With so much going on I really wasn't motivated to get on the bike and beat myself up with dozens of other spandex-clad, shaven-legged, beasts. But after I was so glad I did. It takes nights like last night to prove why I'm competitive. I know how to suffer. I know how to push it down and grind my teeth to keep it at bay.
Holding 12th currently in the stage race. With four more races to go, I'll probably try to maintain top 20 just not to overdo it and push myself over the edge. Plus, it will keep my mind motivated to finish the series.
Anyway, Mach, I do need to find the root of my issues. One of the largest roots, one I've started really dealing with in my 30s, was my childhood relationship with my father. It was volatile. He was a drinker and drug user. He was physically abusive to my mother and to me - but not as much. When he was home, and not on some bender, he was loud and violent. Through the years he settled down on the physical abuse but increased his verbal abuse to the nth degree.
All I can remember about him during my youth was how incompetent, useless, and disappointing I was. He called me a momma's-boy, a queer, a worm. He always told me that as soon as I turned 18 he was going to take me out back and beat the sh** out of me. He told me that a lot and I lived in fear from it. I hid from him as much as I could During the summer if I was home and he'd drop by for lunch I would hide under the bed or in the closet and when I though it was safe I would climb out my window and run. Mainly because he would shove, kick, or slap me if I wasn't doing something he thought was useful around the house. You know, instead of being a kid?
My mother rarely stood up for me out of fear. I have an older sister (half-sister) who stayed with grandparents a lot. When that stopped after many years she stayed with friends. He barely did anything to her for whatever reason. My youngest brother received some, but to me, it didn't seem to equal what I got. I think because I wanted to rescue my mother from this and I developed a specific relationship with her that he was jealous of.
Now, many, many years later my father has settled down some. Some. He's still pretty abusive to my mother verbally. Though, after a joint or two he seems pretty mellow and easy to deal with. Weird as it sounds, all our family still hangs out. We cookout a lot and have a good time. I go mainly for my siblings and mother. There have been a few times where I left because of what mood my father was in or just the uncomfortable atmosphere.
Just last weekend, he was in one of those moods and I looked at my mother and said, "If he's going to be an ass****, I'm leaving." My family was out of town so I could easily just walk - and I wanted to. All these pains from my childhood came rushing in when I heard the way he was talking to my mother. She's gotten strong enough or deaf enough to ignore it. However, they real in so much utter anguish in me.
Several minutes later, and after a good joint, he was fine as angel hair. So much so, that when we were sitting down to eat, he looked at me and said, "I know you hate me just as much as I hated my old man." I didn't respond. I didn't want to lie and I didn't want to tell the truth. I shrugged and went on to eating.
For a few years now he's been wanting to warm up to me. For whatever reason. Hell, I don't know. And I don't care either. I have so much unforgiveness in my heart that it would take years of therapy to clean it out. Why the F does he care to resolve all these issues now? Not once has he come up to me and asked for forgiveness.
That brings up a point about God. Something that I've struggled with. God forgives us when we admit we have sinned and asked Him to cleanse us, right? Does God forgive us if we don't ask for it? Are we clean if we don't think we've done anything wrong?
Should I forgive my father if he doesn't think he needs it or doesn't think he's done anything to hurt me? I don't know. All I do know is that I don't forgive him - yet. I can't even look at him really. I can't talk one on one with him like a normal father and son. I can't take any advice from him because he's such a loser. Can't hold a job. Leaches from everyone. Drinks. Takes drugs. Lies. Fabricates.
I guess there's so much in me that I've never really allow to rid myself of. This is one of the main ones.
Then there's school, my peers, past relationships, etc. But I'll save those for a later day.
Right now, I just want to enjoy the fact that I'm racing again and did pretty well last night.
Tpc,
Forgivness, one of my favorite topics...
Forgivness is a gift that you give to yourself.
I went to church last night, which I haven't done in a few weeks, and the sermon (if you want to call it that, which only lasted about five minutes) was about just this topic...
Forgivness is hard. Possibly the hardest lesson we learn while we are on this planet.
It isn't for the people who hurt or offended us.
It isn't absolution.
It isn't for God or to be good or "Godly".
It is for US.
Forgiving someone, does NOT erase, negate, or alter what they did to us. It does NOT make their behavior ok.
It frees us from it though. Frees us from all of the negativity, pain, and damage that we cause ourselves by holding onto the hurt we feel.
A person doesn't need to ask for forgivness in order to receive it. From us or from God.
God forgives us immediately. Not when we ask for it. He grants us forgivness whether we ask for it or not.
We FEEL that forgivness when we ask for it, when we have forgiven ourselves for whatever our misdeed was, and when we are truly open to receiving that forgivness.
It is already there, waiting for us to WANT to receive it.
Should you forgive your father...
For yourself, I say yes.
Should you expect that he ask for it first? No.
You forgive, because you don't want to carry around the past with you anymore.
You forgive, because you want your heart and mind to be free of the effects of the past.
Forgivness is simple yet it is hard.
Forgivness is freeing.
Forgivness opens our hearts and minds to all of the gifts that God has in store for us.
Forgivness is for YOU.
Ask Him, He will help you.
Thank you so much.
I will work on it and be in prayer about it continually. Not to ask if I should forgive but to relieve my self from the grudge and unforgiveness I posses.
Good stuff there...
I would say that you should forgive your Father as well, for the same reasons..
Because you give the gift of forgiveness for yourself, not him...
I have much I would like to say, so I will try to break it down a little to more specific questions I am curious about.
How much of your life, have you lived with that fear that you would be like your father ?
How does that work into your Faith ?
How much of him , that was an example of how NOT to be, fuels your fire of how to be ?
Let me answer one at a time. I'm short on it so I can't delve into it too deeply. I have to leave shortly to get ready for racing.
1.How much of your life, have you lived with that fear that you would be like your father?
My whole adult life I have seen pieces of my father come out of me. Especially when I get agitated or impatient. Those times - especially in the recent past - I would become like him to a degree. I've never been physical or use hardcore verbal abuse.
All this even though I knew how wrong I was and how much like him I was. When my wife pointed it out I would become flushed with even more anger. Forcefully, I would hold it in. Soon after I would feel overwhelming guilt.
There are things in my life that I cannot control, even now, because of how deeply ingrained they have become. Some things that I don't want to talk about here, really.
One thing I fight constantly with but have gotten a good control over is substance abuse. Ironic, huh? What I'm dealing with at home. My mom and dad were users. My dad still is. My wife is. But I could easily be. I shy away from certain things because of several reasons: Not being like them - the constant failures and pains it brings, the fact that I want to be clean for my sport (I can be tested on a whim), and noticing how easily I like popping pills. I was given Vicodin after a nasty crash I had where I broke my hand in several places and needed surgery. One Vicodin later and I was hooked. Just like that. I loved them. It took me several weeks to come off of them fully and it was a horror. Now anytime a DR asks me if I want a prescription for pain meds I decline.
Do I fear it? Yes. I live it and it's frightening as hell. I'm working on controlling the tendencies and have a pretty good grasp on it - now. But it's 2 feet below the surface and can jump out any second. (Think: "Friday the 13th" when the lone surviving, young girl was out on the tranquil pond in a row boat. She was coming back from the nightmare she endured and found herself alone and confused. Sitting up, she began looking around trying to figure it out. Suddenly Jason jumps from the water and drags her over to the deep below.) That's how I feel sometimes. I could be taken under any minute. Dramatic as it sounds. It's true.
What is the appropriate way to deal with your spouse when you know they're cranky - have been for a while - and won't talk to you about it?
My wife has been real ill since yesterday. Short with me. Lost that sweetness in her voice. Don't know why.
I would maybe approach that as.....
Get it out of your head, that this has anything to do with you, and that she is not feeling well....
Offer to be there if she needs anything....
Aything less than your actions leading the way, will lead to Word War III
I'll remember that.
Today's tough for both of us. I'm trying to stay positive and energetic but am really tired after two stages of this 5 stage race. I think getting home late is bothering her. But when I'm there it's all about her. She's been helpful and really wanting me to just relax despite the fact that I have a ton to get ready for the next day.
She gets my bottles, gets them ready, takes my stinky clothes to the wash, pops me a beer, and tells me to shower and relax. It's the most I've seen her do for me like this since I started racing. She's really into it. But, like I said, the time away from each other has been difficult.
Today, before I head out to another race, I'm going home to have lunch and lay down with her for a bit. Totally, make her feel like a queen if I can.
She keeps texting me that she misses me. Hopefully that's why she's ill. That's a positive thing, right? If she misses me and needs me. Unlike before where my time away from her was what she wanted to do her thing.
I think getting home late is bothering her.
Maybe you should ask her ?
She seems open to you, now should be the time when you start really communicating what you are thinking - or assuming she is thinking.
SHOW her a different way, instead of falling back into old patterns ???
Yeah. I will talk to her when I get home and we're face to face.
I'm still unsure of how to approach her sometimes. I'm afraid of doing the wrong thing or saying the wrong thing. I don't want to push or pursue. I don't want to be clingy or naggy. But I don't want to be distant either. Trying to follow the DB rules and such can be confusing when things are different.
She's been encouraging me to continue to race but maybe she's speaking something totally different from what she's thinking. Leaving here in a bit and I'll find out.
My 5 day stage race is done. I did really well; placed in a couple races, got in the top 10 overall, and brought home cash from my winnings to have some extra for our beach trip.
I have been exhausted but tried to show nothing but happiness and confidence at home. Through most of the week, while I was racing, my wife was in an emotional slump. It took me a few days to finally get her to open up and talk but when she finally did it seemed to help. One thing I expressed was that when she says she doesn't know what's wrong, that she just feels down, it doesn't help either of us. I'm not sure if that was good or bad of me. I told her opening up and letting these feelings out can help us both understand what the issues may be. For me it was a better connection between us and a halt on the paranoia I posses due to her infidelity. For her it helped to maybe see how her problems are not as magnified when they come out in the open. After a lengthy talk, the atmosphere seemed to clear. We both felt so much better and we became closer.
That was until the last day of my race. The night before she told me she wanted to come out and watch me. There were two issues at hand.
One, since it was my cycling team that was hosting this large event, I had to go help set up. Which meant getting there before the sun came up. It also meant that we would be out there in the heat most of the day until my race finished and sometime later when I collected my winnings.
Secondly, there were internal problems I had. All season I have had a lot of my teammates, friends, and team leader tell me I was going to be the "Go-To" guy in the races. I had a real good start of the season and it looked like I was on top of it. So a large burden was placed on my shoulders to succeed. I hate that! My fitness has been up and down with large swings. Especially in the light of my marriage problems. Mentally and physically I get stuck in deep holes where I do really poor. She expressed that it sounded almost as if I didn't want her to come. I told her the truth: There were mixed feelings. I wanted her to be there but only if I was going to have a great race and she could see me do well. Since it was the last race I really didn't expect anything. My legs were dead. I was tired. The competition was the stiffest in years and everyone was fighting hard for points.
I don't know why I cannot do well when a weight like that is on my shoulders. It taxes me mentally and my performance suffers. After a while of talking about it she told me that she understood and didn't want to burden me. I told her I wanted her to come regardless.
4:30 AM: I get up and begin preparing for the day making bottles of water, sports drinks, protein, extra food, packing clothes, preparing bike, getting numbers pinned. I get my wife up and she comes out on the couch. She's quiet while I prepare, eat, try to wake up, and collect myself. "I don't think I'm going," she says through apparent fatigue. She is not, and has never been, a morning person. Me? I can leap from bed at 3am like someone plugged me into an outlet.
"Why?" I ask.
"Well, I don't want you to feel that way if I come and (youngest daughter) wants to come but (oldest daughter) doesn't. It's going to be best if I stay home."
"Oh." I was sad and relieved. Confused. Why was I feeling such a heavy weight off my shoulders. I should be more upset and talk her into going but I felt lighter. If I had a terrible race then she wouldn't witness it and I could just call her and make excuses as to why. "Are you sure? I really would like you to go."
"I know. But I think it would be the best."
"OK. I understand." I sat down and looked at her. Immediately I could tell something else was on her mind. Looks like I was going to have to hitch up the pulley system and start cranking out her true issues. Silence while I thought about what to say. Nothing came to mind. "Can you tell me what's on your mind?"
"I don't know."
"Was it about last night?"
"Some. I guess."
"What else?" I fully expected her to put a brake on my pulley system, but she helped crank it.
"I though we were going to have sex last night. You talked about it but nothing happened." That was true. I did want to be romantic but after our conversation things sort of put an end to it for me.
(more later)
TPC,
Just catching up.......
It seems like you are doing a great job of "multitasking"...
I am encouraged by your support of your W.......
It is a testiment to your Love for her......
Just as you are battling your internal struggles she is too....
I think it was said before or your W may have said it herself, she does not "feel" worthy of your love, so how you you possibly want to be with her.
Could be that the intimacy is a confirmation that you do want to be with her, you do love her, you do forgive her, and that she is INDEED.......WORTHY.
You can not make her "feel" worthy.....
however
You can do the things that she is worthy of......
and from where I stand you are.
Make sure you know what her love language is.......if you have not read "The 5 Love Languages" yet, I highly recomend it.
hang in there...
Cheers
I've been pretty weak the past few days. My mind easily dredges up what happened and it stabs me pretty hard.
I think mainly from last weeks races. I just overdid it and now I'm suffering in other areas.
My mind easily dredges up what happened and it stabs me pretty hard.
Are you referring to the affair??
Yes. It's been tough the last couple of days.
TPC,
I wish I had a great solution on that one.
I am sure that you have read plenty on the subject. There is certainly a wealth of reading on it both here, in DR and other books.
I know from what I have read in other books part of the solution is help from the spouse that had the affair...but that usually assumes that the spouse is onboard 100% in doing whatever they can to make up for the transgressions.
I noticed that you posted to the other poster in this forum that you do not wish to "know" much about the OM and that is certainly a healthy stance to take, most want to know everything.
Sometimes that is good, sometimes bad......
I think that with time as you re-establish "trust" with your W you will be able to share with each other your individual fears.
Let me clarify the "trust" I speak of.....it is NOT the trust of her being where she says she is going to be nor trusting in what she says is true.
The "trust" I speak of is that she and you can trust one another be be a "safe place" for the other to confide in.....no matter the topic.
That means that you accept how she "feels" about something even though you disagree 100% but yet you show understanding and don't invalidate her feelings by immediately sharing your opposing point of view. Sometimes that means you bite your tongue and let her get it out.
You will find that when you establish that trust then there will be a true openess between you two. Generally speaking it is fear of how our spouse will respond that prevents us from sharing our true feelings.
For now you may have to "carry your own water" on the affair.....I am not so sure that she is ready to "hear" your feelings as she is still sorting hers out.
This is the "WORK", it is hard but in the end it will pay you dividends, it also teaches you patience and builds character..........it will change you and make you better.
Hard to see now......guess you will have to trust me
.
Cheers
Hey TPC,
How are things going??
Hey T....
Wondering how you are doing......
On vacation. Wife has been wonderful. We've been like newlyweds.
On vacation. Wife has been wonderful. We've been like newlyweds.
Now that is the kind of "how are things going" I like to hear.
Happy for you TPC!!!!
Cheers
Only one incident while on vacation: My wife has been extremely needy. I had to be right with her every moment. If I wasn't paying her attention then she was a bit upset. Not mad. But kind of sad. I asked her about it and she matter of factly told me that she did want me next to her all the time. Unfortunately, we were with my family - about ten of us all together. So, I wanted to be with everyone.
At first, she was a little upset but understood. On the last day her and my daughter spent time alone at the ocean while the rest of us stayed at the pool.
Also, she did really well with the drinking. She had a couple here and there but kept everything under control. Not once was she in a bad mood, upset, stressed, or mean. She was just about perfect in every way.
Me? Well, I need some more work on my patience. She told me that I was way better than before but still could use a Chill pill every once in a while.
When I am tired or there is a lot going on around me I can get very anxious and impatient. And it shows. But I tried to really pay attention to my behavior and told my wife to monitor me constantly. It helped.
The "WORK" we do on ourselves is never really done.
I ask myself the same things about bad past behaviors.....I have changed definitely........
however
Am I capable of acting that way again????
sure, I am.....I think that it is easy to fall back into old habits.........I think the growth in us or the change in us is recognition of that behavior when it happens.
If you make a mistake, say something or do something.....own it, apologize for it, LEARN from it.....and move on.
Your W is going to need as much re-assurance from you as you need from her.....in many ways she will need more.
I am fortunate enough to have a friend from the boards here that is local to me.......he and his W reconciled about 9 months ago.
I can tell you that in the first 4 to 5 months his W was absolutely a basket case about the girlfriend he had while they were apart.....she was the WAW.
My friend, however had to do a TON of reassurance to his W because his W feared that he would leave her for his girlfriend........it seemed odd at the time but if you stop and think about it most WAW's feel a tremendous amount of guilt and fear that if they return to the marriage that they will eventually be dumped by their husbands.
The fact that your W wants to be close to you physically is reassuring to her.
Continue to share your feelings honestly with your W and make sure that the communication is always open. You may find that at times when you are listening to her that you may have an emotional reaction to what you she is saying......make sure you are a "safe" place for her to share her feelings.
Cheers
Last night we had a good talk. At least, she had a good talk. She told me about her temptations with drugs and alcohol and how she's overcoming them. She told me that she loved talking to me at telling me all this and that she needs it more often. She also expressed her fear with me and who I used to be and the thoughts of me falling back into my old self.
She does need as much reassurance as I do right now. I could really tell that when she was talking. I want to give this to her as much as she needs. I wrote her a heart-felt email this morning telling her so and how proud I was of her last week when we were at the beach.
She was hit from many directions with temptation but remained very strong and upbeat the entire week. I was so proud of her and told her so many times. It was almost like she was a new woman with new strengths that I've not seen in a long time.
Tomorrow I'm going with her again to her NA meeting. I got a lot out of it last time and I'm looking forward to it.
Writing her a heartfelt email....
Going to her NA meeting.....
Being her sounding board....
ALL OF IT is reassuring....
You are making deposits in her "LOVE" account....
They will pay you dividends later.....
Prayers for you and your family.....
Remember to take care of yourself.
How is your training going??
Has the tense feeling subsided that you were having a couple of weeks ago?
I'm feeling a lot better these days. Not as tense. Thank you.
My training is good. I had a setback when I didn't complete one of my goals this year to get my upgrade to race Pro/Am. There are only a small handful of chances left this season and it's possibly not going to happen.
But that's OK. I had to focus on much more important things this year.