Hi,
I posted this because I am trying to deal with a WAW in a patient, mature way.
I am very intested in hearing from any former WAWs out there who were able to reconsider and return to their Hs. Please share your experience with me.
Thanks
![[Smile]](images/icons/smile.gif)
P.S. I posted this in another thread but thought my chances for a response would be better here.
hi jimfromB!
i haven't exactly returned, though i would do so if i thought he had changed. (i know, i know).
if i can help, let me know.
Give walkaway a chance, she helped me understand something.and I am trying her idea, actually we came up with it together.
AS for NICKY's thread, it is good to read, it's old, but Nicky is no longer here.
Maybe, if we as Walk, she will start a thread so we my get an understanding. Who knows, we may even find a way to use a 2x4 on her H, to say: WAKE UP YOU DOPE!
George
Hi awalkawaywife,
Yes...I found one thats living and breathing
![[Wink]](images/icons/wink.gif)
I don't want to to trouble you too much but here is my story:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=9;t=000849My W's main issues with me are inattentiveness, feeling that I am not a good partner, and that we don't bring out the best in each other. I've acknowledged it all, belatedly, and have tried very hard to change. I feel that all of these problems can be worked out.
New wrinkle...as of yesterday, even though I still hope that we will eventually reconcile, I was emotionally prepared to deal with whatever happens. Then this morniing I went to a camp open-house for my S (who is 8) and my oldset D (who is 5) and was disturbed by how uninvolved they were with singing/dancing, etc. I am starting to wonder if they way things are at home is starting to hurt the kids. It has given me renewed determination to "try" to save our M. I don't advocate staying together only for the kids sake. I advocate trying to make our marriage good, partly because we have an obligation to them.
My wife is very confused, crying a lot. I can't understand it because I thought it was very clear to her what she wanted. To work, to have more freedom, to be away from me. This S was supposed to be the first step in that direction. She's very hesitant about things like separate bank accounts and the like. I have been doing the LRT the past month, try to give her space and not be pushy.
That more or less sums it up for us right now. Any insight. I'd love to hear your story. Also, any way I could convince my W to read DR? She considers all the self-help I've read total nonsense. She it completely closed to other alternatives.
Thank you so much!
hi george! thanks for that vote of confidence, i would feel great if i was able to help. i will get over to your thread today.
jim - first off, what i would give to have a husband willingly read all the self-help books! i think i have the world's biggest library. my H thinks like your wife, that they are just someone's opinion, no better than his own.
one book my H did read on his own, was Chapman's Five Love Languages. i personally found it enlightening and it explained to me that many of my husband's controlling behaviours (cook dinner, get cleaning, clean house) were really because they are acts of love for him, and he was trying to get me to show him love in his language. (I, of course, was rebelling against being a domestic slave.) H liked the book a lot and found it an easy, non-preachy, read.
you might read it, and then offer it to your wife, with the words that "this book might help in any relationship you are in." it might give her another perspective about both of your actions in the past.
her tears, confusion, hesitancy (my clothes and belongings are still at H house, 1 year later) are because she really doesn't want to be divorced, but she wants you to offer whatever the OM is filling in.
feeling wanted, validated, loved, cherished...all pretty heady stuff when you've felt neglected for many, many years.
so, take all that as a GOOD sign. she is smart enough to know that OM isn't the answer. (FWIW, there is an OM in my life too, but that doesn't negate that i wish my H would change)
can i ask what your actions have been that show you have changed? (not giving her space, etc, but what have you actually changed about you?)
what do you think she is most angry with you about?
i am very angry with my H for many years of no intimacy and being dismissive towards me. he acknowledges it, but says "all couples do that." or "you weren't nice to me either" which isn't really acknowledging it at all. it isn't validating me. it isn't hearing, listening. it is deflecting blame. it makes me realize that despite his words, he doesn't understand. you don't want to fall into that same trap.
my personal experience is that LRT by him, doesn't work for me. my issue was not having his attention, so his distance doesn't influence me one way or another. i wouldn't want him hounding me about getting together, but i would like him to show me the changed him and invite me on "friend" dates. let me see that we can have fun in ways that would be fun to me (instead of fancy dinner/drinking -- inviting me to miniature golf).
but you guys are living together, so maybe LRT is necessary in close quarters.
what does she say she wants you to change?
walkaway,
Thanks for the suggested reading. I'll look it up. As far as my wife goes, she isn't receptive to suggestions from me about what to read. But it wouldn't hurt to try.
My actions which show I've changed? I have tried really hard to be more attentive with the kids and honestly feel I've made progress. I have definitely been more helpful (laundry, dishes, picking up after kids, etc.). The interesting thing there is that my W has said (once to our therapist), that I am as good as a husband & father can be, except she just doesn't feel the right kind of love for me anymore. I haven't a clue as how to rekindle that.
I have tried to be a better listener, but mixed success there since I'm not naturally good at it. The partnership thing has always puzzled me. My W is a controller and I have let her walk right over me for 12 years. It was something I did because I thought it worked for our marriage. Ironically it was a major cause of where we are now. And sadly, a lot of her controlling behavior was probably her way of expressing love. If I had realized that before I would have thanked her.
I don't think she is particularly angry at me at this point. She just doesn't really think about me at all (her words). Nor does she say anything specific she wants me to change. Again, she says it's only that we bring out the worst in each other. It's a cliche she's using very often these days but is unable to explain.
Your comments about validating, listening (I mean REALLY listening) are food for thought.
I would love to do something with my W that we would enjoy together. I made the mistake a few months back of secretly planning a big night out (expensive hotel, the theatre, etc.). Not her cup of tea. We've done a few nights out since our crisis began and actually enjoyed ourselves. But that was all before the S. Now she feels there is no point in spending quality time together. She doesn't even feel maintaining a friendship is particularly important. Sound like a lost cause? But I still have to question what she says given how upset she's been lately.
Tonight we had a good talk and agreed she would stay put for a while until she got her footing (job, etc). We are trying to figure out how being separated and living together will work. To me having her close is an opportunity to demonstrate my new listening skills, etc
.
Tomorrow is our 12th anniversary. We haven't mentioned it to each other at all. I did write a card saying (I'm paraphrasing) "I couldn't ignore the day. Something that resulted in 3 beautiful kids was not a mistake. I'm proud of them, you and what we've accomplished together". I left it in the book she's reading. May mean nothing to her but I wouldn't be myself by letting the day go and doing nothing.
Anyways, I appreciate your time and am eager to continue the dialogue with you and anyone else who might have some insight. Thanks so much!
hi jim,
i ams still puzzled that you don't really seem to know why your W left. how do you know what to change if you don't know what she wants???
you mentioned that you let her control you for 12 years and that might somehow be responsible, but you didn't elaborate as to how. what do you think the problem is?
you're right though, a one-sided relationship doesn't work no matter what. even if you were accepting of being controlled, it is not an equal partnership, and the controller won't be happy either.
wish i could help more, but without knowing exactly why she wants to go, it is hard to offer insight.
walkaway,
I do not completely understand why my W wanted the S, other than what I've already alluded to (not listening, no partnership, inattentiveness, helpfulness, "not bringing out the best in each other"..., etc). So, I can only focus on those areas to change.
She has also said that the reason she wanted out is because she has always been dependent on someone (her parents, then me), and missed out on some life experiences. She wants more freedom. She says that getting married so young (she was 21, I was 29) was a mistake and having 3 kids was too much for her. She wants something significant in her life other than family. So I guess part of the reason for this has nothing to do with me. I can only be supportive in those areas but I can't solve them for her. The thing that confuses me is why she feels the M has to end so that she can obtain what she wants?
My desire is that we commit to "working" on our relationship, based on what we've learned, agreeing to try to change our behaviors in a constructive way, and see what happens (no guarantees, perhaps we realize we can't be together). Again, she's unwilling to try unless she has that love in her heart. I feel we owe it the kids to try. She feels the kids are resilient enough to deal with it (I'm not so sure, being a child of divorce myself and seeing the damage it brought...her parents are together so I don't know if she really "gets it").
You asked about her controlling behavior. She is a perfectionist and a controller (if we are ever try to reconcile, this is the main area where she will have to change). I am VERY accomodating and laid back. My favorite response to her regarding a lot of things was "whatever you want". I concluded after a while that eventually she will get what she wanted anyways so why fight it. I became basically passive-agressive (something I would need to change). Again, the irony is that she lost respect for me (referred to me as a "wimp").
Believe it or not, you are helping. Your probing questions make me think.
Thanks again!
Jim, It is eery how much your W sounds like my W. She is a perfectionist and has controlled the M since day one. I always found it so much easier to just say "whatever you want, I just want you to be happy". We moved 6 times in 17 years of marriage. I went along with her even though I had no desire to move. I wanted to avoid confrontation in the marriage. She is such the perfectionist that she gets home from work at 3:30, finishes two loads of laundry, starts dinner, and packs lunches for the next day. All this is done before 4:00 and if it isn't done by 4:00 she would be upset. Even with her controlling nature and habit of telling little white lies continually I would never think of throwing in the towel on a 17 yr M. Marriage is about being accepting of our spouse's faults.
Jolsin
Joslin,
Several years ago I was incredibly unhappy with my M, myself (low self-esteem, for reasons unclear then, but are obvious now). However, I eventually decided that I could not hope for my W to change, that I either accept her as she was or get out. Because of the kids, and I loved her (still do) I looked at how I could tolerate her behavior and how I could be the man she kept demanding I be. I thought it was working until last February (when our crisis began). As I've written, this was a major cause of the state of my M.
She acknowledges she also has responsibility for our M, but in her mind it fell apart not because her behavior was bad, but because we just don't work as a couple. She isn't prepared to admit that her behavior would be damaging to ANY R. I've acknowledged that certain traits of mine would be pretty undesirable to virtually anyone. But I am willing to change, for her, and if not her, then for my next R.
One thing I have learned that it is okay to pick your battles, but make sure you stand up for things you truly feel are important. I think if I had my W and I would be happy (and together) today.
Thanks for responding
Sorry, I need to bump this up because I need some advice.
My W has contacted a divorce mediator. We got sticker shock when we saw how much this would cost us. The bigger issue is custody and what we'd do with the house, our assets, etc. I hope this will make her pause and think about how incredibly disruptive this is, but I fear she is completely convinced that this is her "destiny". I asked last her last night if our M, the kids, basically our life together, is only a phase in her life, that she feels it's gotten old and it's time to do something else. She said 'yes'. Wow!
![[Eek!]](images/icons/shocked.gif)
I have been in a LRT for the past 6 weeks but have violated many of it's rules (I just can't help it sometimes).
Here is where I need some advice:
Her best friend (also a therapist but not schooled in relationships) is the only person she confides in at this point. She doesn't talk to her parents about our sitch because they have been very unbiased and objective. I am thinking of calling her friend (who I am also friendly with) and asking her if she would be willing to look at this web-site and see if it resonates with her. If so, then to please tell my wife that there IS another alternative to a D.
Is this a good idea?
quote:
The interesting thing there is that my W has said (once to our therapist), that I am as good as a husband & father can be, except she just doesn't feel the right kind of love for me anymore. I haven't a clue as how to rekindle that.
Jim - we sound so similar. My W has told me herself that I am a great father and husband and that she just isn't "in" love with me anymore. And like you have no idea how to rekindle that love. If she were angry at me I could work with that but she isn't and we get along great.
quote:
She has also said that the reason she wanted out is because she has always been dependent on someone (her parents, then me), and missed out on some life experiences. She wants more freedom. She says that getting married so young (she was 21, I was 29) was a mistake and having 3 kids was too much for her. She wants something significant in her life other than family.
Again very similar my W was 19 when we married and I was 25. I am pretty sure she is trying out the grass on the other side of the fence. And she too has said things like "I don't want to answer to anyone". A pity since we have 2 kids (9 and 3). I know she is after a sense of herself and independence. But when or even will it end?
We are going to dinner tonight before she leaves town again, she lives 7 hours away now, and I need suggestions on how to make it a fun, warm, desirable experience for her.
Roland,
I would just try to enjoy dinner. Try to appear optimistic and upbeat. DON'T bring up reconciliation, etc. unless she initiates it, and then don't appear too anxious. Good luck!
Anyone else have any advice on my earlier question?
Hi everyone,
I'm still rather new to this (found site and have been posting for a week). I'm finding comfort in reading all of your posts and think it's a potentially wonderful asset to have someone like "awalkawaywife" share some input; especially to H's who are trying to cope with a WAW. I'm so sorry for all of your sitch's, and can't believe that, up until now in my life, I never even had thoughts about what people all over, and who are no different than me, are going through and have been going through in their lives while I was just going about my own.
If any of you have the energy or time, please read my thread "WHAT'S HAPPENING!" and let me know if you have any insight. I'd appreciate it greatly and plan to NEVER leave this site, whether sitch gets better or not. I can not believe how many people are out there hurting and confused.
Good luck to, and God Bless, all of you.
quote:
I am thinking of calling her friend (who I am also friendly with) and asking her if she would be willing to look at this web-site and see if it resonates with her. If so, then to please tell my wife that there IS another alternative to D
in my own experience Jim, I was extremely hurt when H involved friends and my parents-- it felt like the "whole world" was ganging up on me and not an unbiased listener in the lot. So, is it a good idea? Based on my experience, I wouldn't recommend it.
Laurie
LJNC,
Thanks for the input. You may be right, This definitely could be walking into a minefield. But is it possible to tell the friend I am only trying to do everything I can to save my marriage, mostly for the kids, and only want an opportunity to TRY to salvage it? I only want her to see what DBing is all about, objectively draw her own conclusion, then share this with my W if she wants to. If she feels uncomfortable with this, then that is fine.
This is very sensitive and probably somewhat manipulative. But maybe it's the right kind of maniplulation.
Any else have two cents?
quote:
But maybe it's the right kind of maniplulation.
no, manipulation is doing something that benefits yourself and is basically an attempt at control. consider where your W is and recognize that what you do/say has consequences.
you are about to talk to HER only outlet.
HI Jim,
Tough call> How close are you and this friend? Can she keep your friendship and W's friendship seperate? that is the big question. W and i have mutual friends, and during our first Seperation, i confided in those friends, big mistake. Now i dont talk about my M with them, if they bring it up i tell them something short like Just typical M problems, but i dont go any deeper than that. It will get back to your W, and could create more problems. So again the biggest question is, can this friend keep your frienship seperate? Hope i helped you out.
Derek
Sorry to but in, but an above post concerns me a little. Maybe it's all in individual perspective, but I believe that almost everything we do, in relationships, in business, and in life in general when we want to effect changes in others (whether for the benefit of everyone involved or for selfish gain) is a form of manipulation. Manipulation isn't necessarily bad.
Manipulation falls into two categories: benign (acts in which the relationship may be helped) and harmful (capricious, selfish, me-motivated, gain at the expense of others) manipulation. I believe that there's a third form--malevolent manupulation (in which we do something as "getting even" or from the just plain evil thrill of it, no matter what the outcome). Anything we do that we think might influence another is by definition manipulation.
An example of benign manipulation: Getting your S (by whatever means) to be a better partner (i.e., to regularly put out the garbage, be a better lover, etc.). No one is hurt; everyone benefits.
An example of harmful manipulation: Talking to your S's best friend to "get them on your side" or otherwise influence your S.
An example of malevolent manipulation: Beating the he// out of S's OP, just to feel better.
Good DBing is using manipulation (although it also should lean heavily, perhaps solely, on self-improvement), but at it's best, it should be benign.
Understanding whether a particular act or series of acts is benign, harmful, or malevolent--that's the real trick. This is why we are always asking, "Will what I'm about to do bring me closer to my goals or take me further rrom them?"
LJNC, I think I understand that, in your post, you meant the latter two forms of manipulation. And you are right... we should do all we can to avoid this.
I just don't want people frozen to inaction by not fully grokking real-world manipulation.
Don
Everyone,
Thanks so much for you input. I'll practice my LRT and keep my mouth shut. I imagine if it got back to my W it would definitely be over. Thanks for the education on the 3 types of manipulation. I believe I read something similar in DR . I'll have to refer back.
Thanks again...and Laurie, you especially for helping me avoid the minefield.
LOL, grokking
![[Big Grin]](images/icons/grin.gif)
Good book Don.
i don't believe DBing has anything to do w/any form of manipulation. And like you said, its opinion. I feel its more cause and affect or visa versa. but whatever...
Jim, actions speak louder than words w/most WAS. When H went to my parents w/what was going on, I felt he was showing me the lack of respect I had come to feel from him. So check your actions before making them.
Laurie
Laurie,
You seem to have great insight. Is your H a WAH, or are you a WAW (which would be unusual given that virtually everyone here wants to save their M)?
To anyone, My W has contacted a D mediator, we're getting a packet, and there's been a lot of discussion on custody and housing. Last night I told her that it's her time table and I'm taking no action unless I have to (still trying to apply my LRT). We're both still at home, comfortable in that we have our separate space, and the kids are fine. I see no rush. At times she seems anxious to move on, but at other times is very hesitant. We are both determined that, if she decides a D is inevitable, to keep it as civil as possible. We hope we can do it w/o her Atty, vs. my Atty.
I need some advice on my approach. Should I sit back and just let things happen (and hope she reconsiders)? I don't want to hire an Atty to "protect my interests" because that's a slippery slope I want to avoid.
Any thoughts?
Hi Jim -
I'm dealing with that same issue myself, 1st apt. w/ mediator later today... both want to avoid atty like you and hope this can work.
My approach, just going to go thru w/things as if seperation was mutual. Wife is very emotional now and getting signs she's having second thoughts, however i want to let her work those things out w/o pressure from me... I'll go to mediator and work out details.. but i'm always DBing, hoping to save M. In my case, worst case if W doesn't reconsider and try to work w/me, then i'll have taken care of moving on myself.
think fighing going fwd w/ mediator goes agnst the DB techniques... plus mediators often do more than leg/fin... they look for resolutions and possibility of reconcilliation... closest thing to theraphy for me since wife doesn't want M cons.
thats my 2 cents. many people have written similar to me... let your wife start the process, maybe that will show her how much shes giving up, my wife seems to act same way.. was pushing to move quickly as possible, now seems unsure...
keep db'ing and good things will happen.. thats what i tell myself so i've got to believe it
Mike
quote:
Is your H a WAH, or are you a WAW?
Jim, 3+ years ago I was a WAW, close to a year later, H was a WAH.
I have made choices for me, which included filing for D. Do I consider myself a WAW now? Heck no! I did the best I could and know I've made the right decisions.
We are also using a mediator for the filing. Work together b/c its mostly about compromise. I suggest sticking up for yourself for things you truly want and not walk on egg shells.
Were you able to find a mediator who is also a licensed therapist?
jim,
let me second the opinion that you should never talk to your wife's friend about her. my H did that with 3 of my friends. only one called me to tell me -- because she felt awful about it.
her feedback was that my H was desparate to understand my leaving, but she also finally "saw" what i was talking about as he seemed to speak to her as though i were a wayward child that needed to be brought back to her senses. inadvertantly for him, it let me know that he hadn't changed.
as far as a mediator, the way it works for us, it that we use the mediator to work out an equitable agreement/compromise. the mediator does not represent either of us. the agreement is NOT BINDING. he recommends that once we have an agreement we each seek counsel to look after our own interests, hammer out any changes if necessary, and then submit that agreement to the court.
i wouldn't have any hestitancies to go forward with mediation. sometimes coming down to those decisions brings everything into sharp focus. my H is wavering now about what changes he might be willing to make in HIM now that we are talking about money and assets. i think mediation is a GOOD thing for both parties to assess whether they remain together.
Laurie,
a question for you? was your H suprised to find him a WAH? like he spent so much time trying to restore normalcy with you, that once you came back, he realized that he too, didn't want the relationship?
quote:
was your H suprised to find him a WAH?
honestly, i don't know. he has said he buried his head in the sand. what does that mean? exactly what he said- he buried his head- no more no less.
Awalkaway- I suggest reading Nicky's thread (link posted on page 1 of this thread).
hope everyone a good w/end. Laurie
Laurie, walkaway, et all...
Thanks for your great advice this week. I do not intend to talk to the friend about my W. Doing that could very well destroy any chance we may have to reconcile. Shows the value of this web-site
I am taking the kids to Maine tonight (until Monday) to hang out with family. My W and I can definitely use a few days away from each other. I am sure I'll get a chance to vent, but I'll be careful what I say in front of the kids. 1st time I'll be away from her with all the kids for this long, without my W.
![[Frown]](images/icons/frown.gif)
She was very upset (crying) again this morning. It's frustrating in that I want so much to comfort her, give her a hug, something, but I don't dare. I only ask if there's anything I can do, which is absurd because I suspect she feels I am the problem (and to a certain extent that's true).
Laurie, walkaway...how would something like the following have impacted you? In another thread I had asked what to do about our 12th anniv (last Sunday).
If you're so inclined...please see
http://www.divorcebusting.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=9&t=000849&p=I got great feedback to do something simple. I simply got a card, and wrote a simple 'caring' sentiment (no "I love you's, etc) with cut-out pictures of the kids glued inside. I left it in the Jean Auel book she's reading. Well, she hasn't picked up the book since Saturday, and we have not uttered a word to each other about the anniv. With time to herself this weekend, I know she'll pick up the book and see the card. Ironically, I hope timing is perfect in that we will all be gone. I hope it makes her think that what she has isn't really so bad. How would you feel?
jim,
in my case, my H wasn't providing any attention to me, so receiving attention is a big plus. your card sounds just perfect to me.
there is a difference between giving attention and pursuing -- i think it has to do with intent. if the attention is meant to make her think, feel, act a certain way; then its pursuing.
if the attention is genuine concern by you for her and her life; it is very validating.
so, for my type of situation, where i was starved for attention, i would enjoy it if he said "i miss you. i'm going to xxxx restaurant friday nite for an early dinner. join me if you can"
(as opposed to "i can't go on like this, i need to talk to you, please meet me at xxx at 6pm and call me ASAP.")
enjoy your weekend. i think it will be a good one for you!
Hi all,
An update on my sitch.
Went away to Maine w/the kids Fri-Mon. W home alone. Had great talks with her on phone Sat & Sun. Sat she was very upset again (crying). A friend who is an MD recommended a anti-depressant (Zoloft...anybody with experience there?) which she has been on for a couple days. SHE ACTUALLY READ DR!! Wow! I'd been trying in subtle and not so subtle ways to get her to read it for weeks. I told her that OUR concern right now is to make her 'better', our M is secondary. Her tone changed considerably. Didn't bring up S or D at all, nor did she say anything about reconciliation. I think she is really thinking very hard right now (wish I had been gone with the kids for a week
). Got back last night and we haven't spoken seriously yet. Have no idea what she's thinking. Standing by my LRT and I don't ask. Also saw that she finally found the Anniv card I left in her book but she hasn't mentioned that either. Should I say "So, you finally saw the card"?
She is meeting with therapist now who has done nothing for her in 4 mos ("how were your parents to you?..find yourself...figure out what makes you happy...blah blah blah"). She plans to give her the ax today. But I hope she finds someone better because.
This weekend I am going to Cape Cod. We had planned that I go with 2 of the kids and she stay home with the other and come Tuesday to 'swap' 1 kid. Now she is thinking of coming for the week but we do things separately. Can't figure out how she can be so unhappy in my presence @ home then consider spending a week around me (at least at night) in a MUCH smaller place?? Again, I think she's confused.
How is everyone else doing?
quote:
Should I say "So, you finally saw the card"? Absolutely not. As far as any ANY R issues go, you leave them up to her. It's her timetable.
Patience! I learned this by trial and error (as time went on, I made fewer of these errors, so there was no trial). You're doing very well. Keep it up!
Don
Been back for two nights and not a word about a D, but then not a word about anything regarding our R. Last week custody/housing after a D was all she talked about. Anybody been through this who has some insight? Is she thinking? I think she's confused but I don't know since I can't read her mind.
I also found out via my SIL that the OM really wasn't interested in anything more than a friendship. So my W lost her "easy way out".
Anyways, uneventful day, but I suppose that isn't necessarily bad. I know...patience, patience.
Hi folks,
Please, a little advice on my latest problem.
I have plans to take the kids (alone) to Cape Code on Sat for all of next week. Now my WAW is thinking of coming along. She is very indifferent to me right now, the place is very small, and I could use the break from her. This is odd in that she has said she wants a D (last week, now says nothing), and at times can't stand to be around me. Should I suggest she not go? And if so, how? My feelings are mixed. I always want to be with her, but only if she's the happy, pleasant person she can be. I don't want to walk on egg-shells during my vacation.
Any thoughts?
of course she's thinking
women specialize in thinking about the M all day long.
my instincts are not to invite your W along for your planned vacation. it sounds like you need and want the time to yourself. there is definitely nothing wrong with that.
also, if you thought that her presence would create eggshells, it is not worth placing yourself in a predicament that might yield negative results.
has she invited herself, such that disinviting her would be tough? or is she just hinting that you should extend an invite?
walkaway,
She's just 'thinking' about going now... whereas a week ago we had pretty much decided I would go alone with 2 kids, she come to swap the other on Tues. I responded "I always want to be with you, but it's fine if I go alone". Did the first part of that break a LRT rule?
But the more I thought about it, the more I realize it would probably be miserable. It's a small space, it's difficult enough in a big house. I can't figure out how she is even considering it when she says that she doesn't particularly like me, and finds the current situation unbearable. Plus
I could use the break from this sitch.
We spent last weekend w/o her and although we missed her, it was a good thing because I saw a noticeable attitude change when we got home (she's still indifferent, but no longer talks about a D, custody/housing, etc.). She actually read DR up to the Steps (but didn't comment on it...I presume she's thinking about that also).
So, I'm leaning towards heeding your advice and suggesting she doesn't go, unless she feels she can enjoy herself if I'm around. Otherwise, why ruin the week for both of us, and probably the kids as well. Perhaps she could rendevous with us later in the week if she feels she can't commit to that right away.
Sound good to you?
Thanks again
i'd suggest she not go, but not for the reasons you describe. you suggested saying she not go "unless she can be comfy/xxx around you."
instead, i'd tell her something like "i know i said i'd love to have you stay with us this week, but i think i might have said that prematurely. i really need some time and space to myself right now. would you mind if we stuck with the original plan of kid-swapping?"
if she protests, and you want her to come, then she CAN come, but she has heard the message that you want/need time away from her, and it should minimize the eggshell effect -- and maybe give you some freedom from the small house to do things on your own.
just my 0.02
![[Razz]](images/icons/tongue.gif)
walkaway,
Thanks. Awesome advice. I feel fortunate to get it from a women's perspective. Us guys are clueless (we truly are from Mars)
walkaway, et all ...
I spoke to W last night and said I think we should go with our original plan for the Cape. She seemed dismayed, and said that although she hasn't decided if she wants to go, if she does and is too uncomfortable then she could always go home. Seemed reasonable enough to me so I agreed. She said she may want to go to the Cape because she hadn't been there a while and needs a vacation too. Then I said so you'd go to the Cape despite me?
. She actually laughed at my joke. You'll get the whole report on my/our vaca after I return on the 17th. Thanks for the advice!
My next question is this...Since my wife had her breakdown last weekend, and went on Zolof (the anti-depressant), she has said nothing about anything regarding our R. I have no idea if she still wants a D, doesn't, or if she's not sure. By the way I also found out (via my SIL) that the OM really isn't the OM any longer. This may partly explain why she was so upset last weekend.
Anyways, Since it involves my future, and the kids future, I feel I have a right to know where she stands. But is that violating my LRT? Should I gently ask her where she stands or keep my mouth shut and wait for her. Any thoughts?
![[Confused]](images/icons/confused.gif)
Hi Jom,
First of all I wouldn't ask about the R or D. Let it slide for a while. I see many similarities between out sitch. I am also seperated with H but in same house. Very difficult, however, we have a small cottage at the Cape. Amazingly we get along much better there than at home. It's smaller and we just seem to act better together there. Probably because of size. I say go for it this week and you can always ask her to go home if things get tough. I am leaving shortly for Cape myself. Even after terrible night last night H asked this morning if I'm going today and said he's be down tomorrow night. Mixed signals? I hope it's a baby step and maybe your is too. Try to enjoy and don't push R. I also need to practice what I preach.
Dotto
jim,
please make a vow to yourself that you will not talk about OR or D or M for at least one week after you return from vacation.
if she wants to talk about it, and wants to talk about herself, let her. listen as a good friend, show you are hearing her, but don't volunteer your own thoughts for OR or D. if she asks you directly, just tell her that your emotions fluctuate wildly and that is why you wanted some time off as well. that you aren't comfortable speaking about them right now. that you know she might be hurt that you won't dialog, but you need the space right now.
i wouldn't make any joke about "going despite me?" or any other test of her intention or actions. just let it be.
and i'd keep to your original plan of activities as much as possible when she is there. don't wait and ask what she might want to do, but tell her "the boys and i were going to xx for breakfast tomorrow, want to come?" if that is appropriate.
although you may know something is different with OM, don't do anything differently. if she comes back, it will not be in one week, it will be over a series of weeks and this time you'll be wondering if you want her. so don't rush the re-entry period (if there indeed is one) take time for YOU.
dotto, walkaway,
Your advice was kindof what I expected to hear but it's great to hear it anyways. It's just that a lot has happened the past week and it is frustrating in that I have no idea if in 1 month I will D'd or not, if I will have any custody of my kids or not, and if I'll be putting my home up for sale or not
![[Mad]](images/icons/mad.gif)
dotto, good luck in your sitch. I'll look for your post when I get back.
walkaway, I will take your suggested vow to heart. Not a word to her about OM, D or M until Aug 27.
Thanks
Now my latest (one would think trivial) dilemma....Did I handle this badly?
W has decided she wants to go to the Cape. Fine with me, but I told her it is my thing, so please let me do all the prep, but does she want to pack for the kids? She was okay with that. Later I mentioned I planned on bringing our bike trailor. To make a long story short she has an issue with that because she thinks that it would be a hassle to bring it. I thought about it and decided it would be quite useful. Remember this was after she agreed to let me do the prep. She still has this need to control
So we have a disagreement. I thought I did very well maintaining my composure and said I plan on bringing it and could she please let it go. It doesn't really affect her (we are bringing two cars, I will try to put the trailor in mine). In the past I would have given in and then seethed with resentment. This morning I asked how she was and she said halfheartedly 'OK'. Then she said this R is never going to work because we can't agree on the simplest things (referring to the disagreement about the bike trailor, which I hadn't even thought about this morning until she brought it up). I'm not sure if this violated my LRT but I said there is nothing wrong with a disagreement it's just HOW you disagree. I then said everyone disagrees aboout something and there are plenty of things in our life WE DO agree on. She 'disagreed'
with that. So I'm a little flabbergasted, say I have to get to work, help a little with Bfast, say I REALLY need to get going and she snaps "You've said that already....GO!". I maintained my composure, kissed the kids, said goodbye and left.
So, did I handle this well? My gut feeling is that I was reasonable. In the past I definitely would have given in on the bike trailor then been unhappy with myself, and would not have been the most pleasant person afterwards. Then again, one should pick his battles.
Any comments?
Morning!
You did okay, jim. i probably wouldn't have gotten myself sucked into a discussion of right/wrong about the bike trailer. Doesn't matter who is right/wrong -- it is something you want to do and you don't have to justify it; especially on your vacation, and especially when it doesn't impact her.
so, don't think of it as a case of "control" and did you "win" the control dilemma. don't think of it as a "battle." give up trying to justify, explain, convince her of your rightness. it is just a PREFERENCE, no one can win a preference.
let her sit with her anger and frustration. don't apologize. (you can say that you are sorry she is so wound up about this -- you can say you are sorry that the disgreement is making hard feelings between you. but don't apologize for having a preference!)
try to be your normal self when you see her again. if the bike thing turns out to be an ordeal to take with you, joke about it seeming like a great idea but you don't want the hassle either. don't take the bike trailer at all costs just to "win."
tell her part of the fun of planning this trip was that you actually got to plan it and choose the activities and things you wanted to do. tell her you appreciate her concern, but part of your growth is figuring out this stuff for yourself.
i guess i'm trying to say be totally honest about what you are doing, but don't make it a battle and don't make it a big deal. and don't cater to her anger, let her work that out on her own.
Jim,
I feel like I am looking into a mirror when I look at your sitch. The similarities are scary:
quote:
I have tried to be a better listener, but mixed success there since I'm not naturally good at it.
Keep practicing! But don't force it. Let her come to you and when she does, drop everything you are doing. Look her in the eye and don't fix her.
quote:
My W is a controller and I have let her walk right over me for 12 years.
It seems she is still trying to control you. I think you handled the bike trailer issue just fine.
quote:
She just doesn't really think about me at all (her words). Nor does she say anything specific she wants me to change. Again, she says it's only that we bring out the worst in each other.
Heard it before. Figure out what YOU want to be. If she likes what she sees then all the better.
quote:
She wants more freedom. She says that getting married so young (she was 21, I was 29) was a mistake and having 3 kids was too much for her.
Give it to her. She needs it.
quote:
My desire is that we commit to "working" on our relationship, based on what we've learned, agreeing to try to change our behaviors in a constructive way, and see what happens (no guarantees, perhaps we realize we can't be together). Again, she's unwilling to try unless she has that love in her heart. I feel we owe it the kids to try.
You won't be able to convince her with words. If you know how you should change then do it. Don't wait for her permission.
quote:
I became basically passive-agressive (something I would need to change). Again, the irony is that she lost respect for me (referred to me as a "wimp").
I'm working on that one too.
quote:
She is meeting with therapist now who has done nothing for her in 4 mos
This is not your problem. You can't nor should change her. You can only show her compassion.
I'm sorry for being blunt. I have been doing the exact same things as you. Unfortunately for me I didn't truely understand until I had made mistakes and had setbacks.
If you are in the LRT then you should never initiate OR talks or ask about D plans. They shouldn't matter. You're focusing on you.
Good luck!
DM
P.S. Here is my thread -> I finally "get it". Is it too late?
jim,
one more thing. i was trying to put my finger on why your wife's anger about the bike trailer struck so close to home, and i realized that when i've gotten angry and complained "see we never agree!" (or something like it) -- i REALLY want to be heard.
i'm not changing my prior advice at all, but just adding that if you get the chance, if the anger should flare again or she gets angry at something new -- try using "tell me more" and just hear her out.
i would not initiate the discussion, but be prepared to hear her out (and encourage her to share her feelings) if she should initiate it with either an angry outburst or complaint.
don't use the conversation to say your point of view. don't argue. don't say "same here." just listen. like an interview. keep asking questions until she has no more to talk about. then thank her for being so open and honest. don't make her wrong for anything she said.
if she wants to drag you into a OR conversation after that (feeling heard, she might want to hear you now), decline. tell her that you need to practice listening to her more and you want to think about what she said -- not spoil it with adding your thoughts or changing to another subject.
now that really is my 0.02, cuz that is what i would want.
walkaway,
Thanks again. You're definitely a more experienced DBer than I. I'm learning, and I'm trying. Amazing insight.
My guess is that she will be seething over this. But I will do my best not to fall into the trap. If she says anything I will only say that this is something I wanted to do so please accept it. And then I'll drop it. I have no plans to 'apologize',....for what? Boy, talk about making a mountain out of a mole hill, but that's been our pattern for 12 years.
DM,
Thanks for looking at my whole story. I will check out your thread. Appreciate your insight. I am slowly learning, and have also had my setbacks. Strange as it may sound, our little disagreement over the bike trailer indicates to me she is having second thoughts about a D (as I posted earlier last week a D was all she talked about). The next step (I hope) is that she starts to see that she also needs to change. Maybe sticking to my guns will help nudge her in that direction?
walkaway,
Your last message actually brought a tear to my eye. As hard as I've tried I haven't succeeded in REALLY LISTENING to her. I always have this uncontrollable urge to respond. She even said last night the "we cannot even agree on this" comment wasn't specific to the damn bike trailer. I'm starting to understand it's a symptom of our two biggest problems. She tries to control and I don't listen. So, I gotta learn to shut-up and hear her out.
Thanks again!
I am gonna jump here... just spent tim quickly reading your thread JimfromBeantown and interestingly... reading about the stupid bike trailor turned a light bulb on in my head.
I have been seeing a traditional type therapist... tradional in a Catholic perspective... where we talked a lot about who wears the pants in the family. Who is the head of the family... that kind of thing. It's kind of like nails on a chalkboard if you at all take a feminist perspective... which I do because, I come from a very matriarchal line... where the women have been in control... My H comes from the opposite. Right from the start... there were bound to be problems...
My H did what you did... just aquiese because it was easier than dealing with the issue and he... didn't want to be a dominator like his father... sigh... so... resentment built up, I looked like a shrew and I am quite sure my H felt a lot like you did.
What's my point? I am not even sure!
![[Roll Eyes]](images/icons/rolleyes.gif)
This control thing over ridiculous little things is not going to stop until the light bulb goes on in your W's head.... and it doesn't seem as if her current C has even got close to exploring that with her. Right now... she's happier being IN CONTROL than being happy. Until she learns to let go and explore the freedom of NOT being in control all the time... you two are gonna have endless tension. The bike thing is just proving it. When I started letting go of the control it was quite liberating. I learned.. I do not have to make all the decisions, m y way isn't the ONLY way to do something.
It seems to me that the LRT - and I am not sure that you are at LAST RESORT stage yet... it's more of 180s you are doing... might be ask her when it's not associated with any one thing in particular... who the head of your family is... ( ok folks ... I am NOT a neanderthal... bear with me ok!) and why it is that she does not trust your judgement. Why does she believe she has to do all the planning, make all the decisions, etc etc. What does she believe YOUR role in this marriage is?
Observe her family. The apple doesn't fall from the tree ya know?
But for this weekend.... let her simmer... you have to learn to let it roll off your back. Your 180s might have more to do with asserting yourself a little more a la the bike trailor. Speak up for yourself a little more... ya know?
Insinuate yourself into HER decision making when it involves joint issues and the children.
As to HER YOU the R etc... just drop it. Detach from it completely. I see it as a good sign that she is going with you. You are walking on eggshells because you are allowing her to affect your own PMA. Get over that. No OR talk, no sep or divorce talk... make like you are already starting over again. Don't let her push your buttons. Easier to say than to do. She probably won't like it. too bad so sad! It's her problem not yours.
Take charge on this vacation from now on.... you are starting that.
It's hard work... are you up to it?
tree
tree, walkaway, DM,
Thanks for your responses today. Hearing from a real live (albeit former) WAW, a fomer control freak, and a 'wimp'
(sorry DM, I couldn't resist) has given me three perspectives which amazingly share some of the same messages.
When I got home my W started with add'l reasons not to bring the bike trailer (didn't she have more important things to worry about today) and I said I've decided to bring it, because it will be useful, and to please accept that. That's where it ended (FINALLY).
Later, out of the blue she mentioned that she is frustrated that I am being so stubborn about the house (that I do not intend to leave)...didn't explicitly say 'when/if we D' but it was implied. I clarified by saying it was either that or we sell and split our assets in half, that I will not live in an apartment. I cut it off right there, and very quietly left the room, remembering I am on a strict LRT. We got along fine the rest of the night.
So, tomorrow is the start of what may be an interesting week. The place on the Cape is very small, so we'll see how long she lasts before she splits for home. My feelings are mixed. Part of me wants her there (I still love her for crying out loud) but I could also REALLY use a break. It's been a tough 6 mos.
I'll be back on the 17th and will touch bases then or soon after. Until then, happy DBing!
JFromB
Back from the Cape.
W and I spent most of the week peacefully. 1 disagreement, but I dissipated it quickly by apologizing (I was a jerk, what can I say). We were both cooperative and agreeable. Did lots of stuff w/kids and had a nice time. Her temperament was much more even since she started on Zoloft. Things don't seem to upset/annoy her so easily. Complained a little about the bikes/bike trailer being a hassle but I did not try to defend my decision to bring them.
That said, I can't figure my W out. What gives? She said almost nothing about a D all week. She has taken no action whatsoever. The 'packet' from the D mediator sits on the counter. I am sticking to my LRT religiously lately but I am so curious what she is thinking.
walkaway, anyone...any thoughts?
Also note a couple comments she made during our vacation.
"I never said you were not a great guy".
"It's scary that I may meet someone who is worse than you"....(not meant to mean I am really bad
).
What can I glean from that
Hi Jim,
Glad your week was uneventful more or less. Mine was okay. I really think they say things sometimes just to get a rise out of us. Like Mick's Do's and Don't say don't focus on what they say they are going to do and don't take things personally.
I will be checking in tomorrow. I hope you can look at my thread and give me comments on my situation.
Keep up the good work. Stay strong.
Dotto
dotto,
Thanks for your response.
My W uttered the D word for the first time in a while this morning. She was out with friends (all female) last night, all talking about their problems. My W said she told them she was "looking for a D". I (dumbly) asked if that is truly what she's looking for. She responded "probably, that or a physical separation" (she has declared us to be 'emotionally separated', which I quess is true). I feel like I violated my LRT, but I couldn't help myself. It drives me crazy wondering what the hell she's thinking and how she is leaning. I also know I shouldn't put too much significance on what she says. Actions speak louder than words and the D mediation 'packet' still sits on the counter. My dilemma is how long do I wait for her to seriously talk about what her plans are? We've been getting along very well lately but we talk only about the kids, school, etc. She does not talk about any impending change. I don't know whether to start 'thinking' about new relationships or not. Any advice?
I looked at your thread. I commend you for you patience. It sounds like it's been pretty painful. I can relate.
One thing I just don't get...Why do our Ss claim to want a D then want to spend their vacations with us? I don't get it. Wanting a D implies you are unhappy being with your S so I would assume they'd NOT want to spend their time with us.
I am glad you are focusing on yourself. I'm slowly getting there. My kid are my salvation. I make plans around them, and if my W chooses to join in, she is welcome. But at what point do we close the door on our Ss? I can't wait around indefinitely for my W to see that our M is worth saving. Not knowing how my life will be even a month from now drives me crazy.
Keep posting here! Thanks again!
Hi Jim,
Trust me I am not patient. Like you I am confused and so frustrated. Why spend time together if they want a D. My H said this may be a mistake and he'll come back if it is and hope I'll be available. He said he thinks about us all the time. Why if he's so unhappy and he wants a D. He's talking about coming to the Cape all of the fall to golf with a group of friends if I don't mind. He's even asked about next year. Why would he want to be around me? Like you I wonder what to do next. I only wish I had found this when things first started. He had already decided on D when I started following Michelle's advice. We have been ES for four months. It's so hard. We can go for days and not talk. I told him yesterday I missed him. He said to call whenever I wanted to say hi. Now I have to be strong again and not call. I broke the DB rules because I talked about OR. Now I start again and I'm going to be his best friend again and make him fall in love with me again. I believe that the feelings are there just buried under anger.
Hopefully C will help. We have our next meeting on Tuesday of next week. I'm back to the Cape tomorrw until Sunday. Probably won't post after tonight until Sunday or Monday.
Keep your chin up. You're lucky you have your kids. I get very lonely. Hope I can help. Watch for baby steps.
We need to stick together and give each other encouragement. I'll check in later tonight. Hope to hear from you.
Dotto
dotto,
Thanks for responding again.
I'd like to share a little more info on my R with you.
W and I had C together for 5 weeks when this all started. At that point we were feeling pretty good about each other. Subsequently she had a 'relapse'. Then she began getting C on her own with the same therapist. I considered seeing another one but figured out that what I wanted (and didn't want) was quite simple. I discovered DR, then this web-site and this has become my therapy. It's a place I can vent, not do any damage, share my experience and hear about others who generally share the same goal.
I've been on my LRT for a couple months now. Despite it's basic premise that it's about you, not your S, I still find it difficult not to ask my W what's going on in her head. I really want a clear signal on the direction she's going so that I can move on with my life, with or w/o her.
She will imply that she's determined to get a D, be extremely cold, say really cruel things,(although she's been MUCH more pleasant since starting on Zoloft), and then want to spend a good part of a week at the Cape with me.
My W also said some months back that part of her hesitation was the fear she was making a mistake. Her EA fizzled out, so she lost her 'easy exit'. I don't know if she's confused/indecisive, or is just planning her exit strategy. She also talks (occassionally) in the future tense about the kids school, the house, etc., as if nothing was going to change. Lately we've been relatively comfortable around each other. We generally don't talk about our R, just little 'snippets' here and there which I try not to respond to.
But again, none of that should matter. I am doing the LRT for me and the kids. I need to keep reminding myself of that.
Well, I've rambled on enough. Thanks for reading and caring.
You keep your chin up too
I'll check in later also! Hope to hear back from you before you return to the Cape. If not, have a nice weekend
By the way...she STILL has not mentioned the anniv. card
Hi Jim,
I understand what you mean about the LRT. I too have been doing it for about 6 or 7 weeks now. I am committed but I don't think I've done it 100%. I too want to know what my H is feeling. He wants us to be friends. He sends so many mixed messages. Like I said on my stich, when I get angry and say what I truly feel he is nicer to me. Usually the next day. I know he thinks about what I have said after the fact. I'm still having a hard time dealing with the fact that he will not give us another chance. He says my changes are too little too late. I don't believe it's ever too late. However, when we talked yesterday I understood so many things. I didn't respect my H. I never knew it until he gave me examples and I really listened to him. I know that with all the research I have done and all the books we could have a great relationship. I truly believe that if he did not have EA he would give us another chance. But if he didn't have EA I probably would not have made changes as much as I have.
I know I have made the changes to save the R but I am also glad I made them for me. I have lost 60 lbs and everyone says I look much younger than my 48 years. H says he's so proud of me for making the changes.
My H says he's been unhappy for many years. Perhaps he has and I'm sure things were tough off and on, especially the last 3 years as I was mourning my beloved nephew. But he had a responsibility to OR to tell me. He claims he did and I didn't listen. It's probably true but what is bothering him was my mourning. Do you think he can change his mind again as quickly as he did this time? His friend says yes.
Like your W he also says cruel things and then talks like nothing is different. I really think he needs to be away from me and the house. He needs to miss me and even though I spent most of my time down the Cape since May ( I quit my full time job in February with his encouragement)we were still together enough for him to not really miss me. He loves this house and in the proposed settlement he'll buy me out of this house and I'll get the Cape house. I'm having a hard time living with him but I don't think I can live without him. But he's still talking about spending the weekends on the fall there and also has asked about next spring, could he come down. It's so confusing.
Why did he let me quit my job if he was so unhappy that he was going to ask for a D? Maybe he has been thinking of this for a long time and I've been niave. But if he wants out so bad why didn't he leave? He can afford to get a place of his own if he wants to. Yes it would cut into the $$ that are saved but if it's so bad why stay?
This is a second marriage for both of us. We both gave up everything the first tiem and I guess we don't want to start from scratch again.
I sometimes feel so confused. I know this is a place where I can be totally honest an people understand.
I have also rambled. Sorry. But it's nice to have friends. I'm off to the Cape again. We seem to leave our troubles at the bridge. he'll be there tomorrow night then leave on Thursday and come to his life that he's building without me. I swear he only cares about the people he works with. I get so threatened. He'll be back on Sunday and then home for the week next week. that's always a challenge. We have C on Tuesday night. I'm not sure I like this guy but I have to give him a chance. He has Michelle's book on his bookshelf. I mentioned I was doing some DB techniques and have seen movement and he said to keep doin it. He saiys this is a process. I just don't know how we will proceed. I'll see.
I'll check back later tonight . I hope to hear from you. Keep in touch. Thanks for your support.
Dotto
Dotto,
It's late and I don't imagine you'll see this tonight. If not, I hope you come here on your return from the Cape.
To say that I have been 100% consistent with my LRT would be dishonest. Tonight my W asked what situation would I be happy with (meaning 'when' we D). I took the bait (couldn't help it...damn!). I said I stay in our house (she is free to stay, I can't make her leave, it's big enough, we have our separate space) OR we sell and divide our assets.
As far as custody goes I will agree to no less than shared physical custody of the kids. She said she was thinking about a number possibilities, including bringing the kids to live with her in Holland (she is a Dutch citizen, the kids were all born here). I said I would not agree to that and am pretty sure she couldn't take them out of the country w/o my consent. She is not seriously considering this but it's a little disconserting when she mentions the possibility. She is adamant that she should have sole physical custody. This really gets me. All along she says she needs freedom to do 'her thing' but then says she is 'the primary care-giver' and it is best for the kids to have just one home. Won't sole custody mean less time than she has now to pursue the freedom she craves? I don't get it. She says I am being stubborn, that I'm not really considering what is best for the kids, only what I want. It seems to me it's the pot calling the kettle black. She is the one who wants out of this R, rather than work on it, irregardless of the harm it does to the kids. Is it right that I can feel guilty just wanting to be with them? I am torn between what truly is best for the kids, one home, with limited access to their Papa (I have always been VERY involved with them) OR two homes and 50/50 access to us both. I see nothing in your thread about kids of your own but what are your thoughts? Perhaps I will start a new thread to get input from folks on custody issues. Be limited to visitation/every other weekend with my kids would devastate me. I love my W, but I would be OK w/o her. I would be so unhappy w/o significant access to my kids (giving them baths, doing homework, putting them to bed, etc.).
Luckily, we both maintained our composure and it didn't get nasty. We're both committed not to let that happen. But I really made it clear that when it comes to the kids I draw the line.
I know I probably shouldn't get too riled up by what she says. She's obviously doing a lot of thinking. That D mediation 'packet' still sits on the counter. If she is so determined why hasn't she done anything? More venting.....I suppose that's enough.
Have a nice time at your cottage. Try your best to be pleasant and cheerful when you are home again with your H. DOn't let him push your buttons. I hope our Ss eventually realize what they could be giving up. We both probably still have a long road ahead. For me it's the support I get here, from friends/family, and most of all the love of my kids, the keeps me going.
Regards!
Jim
hey mr. jim!
i haven't posted because i don't have anything insightful to say
.
it does seem that you guys are both willing to argue over a "theoretical divorce and custody" scenario. maybe as a way to avoid the very pregnant question of "what are we doing now?"
the packet sits there because she isn't sure she wants to divorce. it is that simple. she vacations with you because she is testing the waters of "is it safe to return." it is that simple.
this is hardly scientific, but my thoughts are that you have disengaged enough that you can afford to extend some love and attention towards her in a humorous manner.
for instance, when she asked about your preferred living arrangements when you divorce, i think it might have been disarming to say "well i love you to pieces, but if we divorced i want to stay in house or else sell and divide assets."
and if she said that you are being stubborn, i think you might relieve some tension by saying "of course i am! i love these guys to death, i didn't have them to be absent in their life. i might be losing you, but i don't want to lose them."
somehow, sort of acknowledging your love and care AND acknowledging that you hear her desire for divorce in the same sentence (without whining or OR) seems to deflate some of the intensity.
it permits her to hear that you are accepting of what she says in a non-angry way. that you aren't being retaliatory, that you've accepted the facts. it gives her permission to do the same.
i know parents sometimes displace their anger with each other by arguing over some 3rd item. that's what this reminds me of. that's why i think you need to be light-hearted and consistent in your message of love and care; because somehow it is really about do you love her enough.
once again, more my intuition than actual experience. you get what you pay for
what else is happening right now between you two?
Hey Jim -
Just catching up, I took a break from the board for about 3 weeks to take step back and evaluate where i was w/ my sit... I agree this board is great theraphy but i may have been overanalyzing and thinking.. so took a breather.
Catching up on your thread, lots of advice in past few weeks... read it all and absorbing... not much advice for you myself, but just thought I'd say hi and that i haven't forgotten my friends on the board... i'll check back...
until i have better advice... keep it positive and take care of yourself.
Mike
Hey walkaway, I missed you
Again, thanks for your insightful post.
Last night was our first substantive discussion in weeks. The content of which I posted above. Tonight, I got home and barely said hello and she asked how I would feel if she moved back to Holland with the kids and I could have them in the summer. Well, I lost my appetite for dinner real quick. This is insanity...she would uproot 3 kids, bring them to a place where they don't speak the language (the Dutch don't learn English until they're about 12), then be a single Mom. I realized quickly it is only talk and she said as much later. I told her she could't be serious and she replied she at least wanted to go to Holland in the fall for 10 days or so. Fine by me, I could use the break. Also, I can't let it worry me too much because I am pretty certain one parent can't bring 3 children (who are US citizens) out of the country w/o consent from the other parent.
Anyways, as I mentioned our vacation last week was great, we got along fine, and I actually got a hug when she left early on Thursday with my oldest D. I was almost taken aback, but it felt real nice.
I'll think about applying a little humor at this point (couldn't hurt). Acknowledging love? Wouldn't that violate my LRT. I haven't uttered 'ILY' for quite a while although I definitely still 'love her enough'. Tough call...she probably knows how I feel...but maybe it would be very appropriate to remind her now
Mike...welcome back! Hope your mind is reenergized.
Getting tired. Laundry to fold (still doing my part
). W was in bed by 9:00.
I'll touch bases tomorrow!
Jim, thanks for stopping by my thread with the encouragement.
It seems like your wife is definitely fence sitting. I'm thinking that you may still be trying to get too much of your positive attitude from the reactions your wife has, which may be still putting some pressure on her.
just my humble opinion of course, but if you make it clear that you will be a happy person with or without her (not that you don't have the preference that it be with her), it may intrigue her, and remind her that life doesn't always have to be exactly the same.
mj
MJ,
Thanks for visiting. You're totally right. I fall into the trap of strongly (not angrily mind you) reacting to things my W says. The latest is her 'thinking' what it would be like to move back to Holland with the kids. I've heard from a number of folks not to worry too much about it, she's really just doing exactly that, 'thinking'. I need to get better at acknowledging what she says, don't object, and just LISTEN!! I should be comforted by the fact I highly doubt she could even if she truly wanted to, but it does give me a sick feeling when I think about. She brought it up again tonight and I smartly backed away from responding (luckily the kids were a distraction).
Tonight we ordered airline tickets for her to go to Holland on her own in the fall (she hasn't been home in over 3 years). She plans to rendevous with old friends and family. She says she'll definitely miss the kids. I, with a smile, said you probably won't miss me, and she said shook her head no (that she wouldn't). At one point that would have bothered me. At this point I don't let it.
I also spoke to my aunt tonight who met my W for dinner a couple weeks back. My aunt shared with my W her experiences with my uncle, how they've had tough times, managed to work it out, and now their marriage is better than ever (to some extent due to the &^%# they've been through together). She said she really didn't think my W was going anywhere, she just needs to figure things out. I just need to be there for her, and be PATIENT (I've heard that somewhere before
).
Well, I've babbled as usual.
Thanks again!
hi jimfromB
As a H of a WAW myself (6-month Sep, OM)I found a very good idea getting some real-WAW's opinions. I have been reading them with interest, and there is something I would like to discuss concernig LRT. awalkawaywife says that LRT did not work for her but she acknowledges that she is willing to return. In my opinion she would like to work on her M and therefore she is not longer a typical WAW. Thus this brings back the question. do you really think that the LRT has not worked at all? or is that the LRT has worked and her husband has not realized yet?
What do you think of that?
LRT is not only for the WAS but also for the one left behind. Usually, its the one left that is doing the LRT and its really about getting yourself centered and figuring out what YOU want. Thats the major reason I dislike the word alien/WAS. Those folks need to center themselves too
Its all perspective. AWW may feel she was already left, which brought on the need to do LRT; shes recentered and realized hey, I want to back. (??) Assuming a lot here Awalkaway
Jim- your wife is seeking guidance (ie- the dinner w/your aunt) I went thru something very similar, where I would go to people tell them how I felt, listened to what they had to say. Why? Because I didn't trust myself in decision making. Why? Because most major decisions in the M came from H only. So, this thing w/the bike trailer...does it ring a bell? Include W with decisions (even the little things)
"Hey W, I'd like to do (insert idea), do you have any thoughts on (the idea)?"
Only thoughts coming out of my head this morning
have a great weekend!
Laurie
hi guys,
actually, i don't think i would have walked away if my husband had agreed to stop drinking. or maybe i would have for awhile, just to see if he really stopped. but he said he wouldn't consider stopping at all. he felt "that isn't what the problem is."
so, in that regard, his giving me "space" is really just more of the same. he was absent during the marriage and absent now as well. a 180 for him would be to be attentive and caring and loving and respectful.
there isn't anything he is doing that makes me want to come back. being separated from him has made me forget some of the dismissive, disrespectful things he has done. being separated has let me regain some of my individuality. both have made me more willing to consider reconciliation -- but i am having a hard time accepting that drinking is more important to him than me, and i would like to see evidence that we can be friends and have fun before jumping back into the hard work it would take to mend things.
but, back to you guys! i think the best thing the husband of a WAS can do is be a best friend. listen, listen, listen. accept, accept, accept. don't try to be right. don't argue that she's wrong. listen to her anger, her complaints, don't defend. just simply be there. Be fun, tell her you care for her, but go on with your life and not have expectations of her to be with you.
despite the fact that we walked away and we are the "bad guys" (and you now feel justified and validated by society for your anger) -- we have a LOT OF ANGER. so listen to us and validate us. don't think you are more "right" because you didn't walk away. you walked away the prior 2 years or more!
sorry, i was venting
i think the LRT probably does work, but it says "don't pursue" assuming you were pursuing. if you weren't, the LRT would have to be some other behaviour. i think if my husband invited me to a museum or to a new bookstore or to go on a hike -- i would jump at it. something i wanted to do, and i know he was doing it for me.
(but we've got more baggage than that, i've got ea/pa, so it isn't that simple.)
anyhow, i'm not sure i am adding anything other than hijacking a thread!
JC, I believe my LRT has helped (that and her going on the anti-depressant). The LRT made me (for the most part) focus on myself and accept the very real possibility that my W and I will not be together. The approach I had be before was pursuant, and that was DEFINITELY not working.
However, my wife has shown enough 'coming out' that I think I am close to reengaging a little bit. walkaway...I spoke with my aunt last night. She is not a DBer but amazingly said the same things you've been recommending about giving my W the opportunity to talk, where I JUST LISTEN (like an I'view) and acknowledge, validate, etc. Right now I am just waiting for that moment.
Laurie, I appreciate your comments about my W's decision making. Generally I was the accomodator. But in the areas that I am responsible for (finances in particular), I've have tried to get my W involved but she loses interest. I should probably try a bit harder and perhaps this will help her self-confidence there. She is just now getting comfortable with the computer/going on-line (with my help/guidance) after being so intimidated with it before. It's the little things right! Thanks for the advice!
Finally, I'd like to add I regret if I have made my wife out to be the bad guy. To some extent it's venting. Perhaps also it's a self-righteous attitude that my goal is the right thing, for my kids, for me AND for my W. She just doesn't get it right now
.I assure you I've acknowledged where I've &%$#-ed up and am determined to change (for her)!!
awalkaway
you mention an interesting aspect of the question: anger. I ackowledge that I have my responsability in getting to this point. I know now how deeply mi wife (XW) was hurt. But I wasnīt aware of that before. But I have left my home because she asked me to do it, accepted a legal sep. I am trying to do my best in giving her space (it is not very easy when you see OM in the picture). I am suffering a lot too. So why is she still angry with me?
By the way I donīt consider you the bad guy here.
Nice weekend for all of you
Jose
Hi all,
Hey I like the new look!! Didn't know that were redesigning the site.
Anyways, W and I have opened up a dialogue after 6 or so weeks of my LRT. The difference know is I am trying to take the advice of several folks (including you walkaway, thanks) and really listen to her. It is a little difficult when she says 'it is over' and talks about moving to Holland with the kids. The change transpired starting on Friday. I told her that I really wanted her to talk to me and I promised to listen. Saturday AM she asked me what I want. I told her what I want has not changed, for us to be together as a family. I didn't say that I do NOT want things to be exactly as they were, the bar is higher now. But hopefully I'll get the opportunity to clarify that at some point. She then said it's over, accept it, so what do I want?! I said, yes I accept it, and assuming that's the case, I want significant access to the kids, I'd prefer to stay here at the house w the kids (with or w/o her living here also) but would be open to selling and dividing our assets. I would not 'allow' her to leave to Holland with the kids unless I had no legal right to stop her. She said "FINALLY I got that out of you". I also said that I have reached a point emotionally that although I want to reconcile, I would be OK without her. I managed to stay very calm, let her finish her thoughts, do not say 'yeah but....', make eye contact, etc. We're getting along pretty well now and even watched a DVD together last night. Nothing said today. I asked her before I 'retired to my space' if she had anything she wanted to talk about and she said no.
Apparently she sees my detached behavior (aka LRT) as rather unmanly, that I am sitting back timidly waiting for whatever happens (the wimp thing again). I see it much differently. I told her I detached for me, not her, to emotionally cleanse myself, and if at the same time it gave her space w/o me in her face all the better. I had tried the clingy, pursuant approach before and it was not working (in fact was really alienating her). I don't see it as unmanly at all. On the contrary, I believe it would have been unmanly to have given up months ago. I am a 'wimp'...please! I was indeed a wimp taking a lot of her BS for 11.5 years. But right now I feel good about myself, my attitude about salvaging my M, and my future whether it includes her or not.
So there you go....if I'm in her face it's no good, if I detach it's no good either. That said, I am still skeptical about what she says. She'll say things implying the end of the M, then later say something implying the exact opposite. She still has this romantic notion about moving on and meeting someone else. Oh yeah, she finally said that OM indeed fizzled out, and she doesn't really think about him anymore
I still think she's confused and hasn't truly made up her mind. Or am I in major denial
Well, she goes to Holland in October for 10 days by herself so we've agreed to take no action until she does that. She thinks she'll find some answers.
Welcome back everyone to the start of a new week. Dotto, hope you had a nice time at the Cape! Walkaway, you've been quiet?
Hi Jim,
Sound like you and I are both starting to think we may be looking at what our S are saying and getting to optimistic. If you get a chance stop by my thread where I updated the time at the Cape. He says that he has no feelings then we have a great time. I am reading Dr. Dobson's book on Love Must Hurt. It has given me some great insights. You may want to get it.
I think the trip to Holland is probably a good idea. She will miss all of you. And it will give you time with the kids. I don't have kids. H has a son 23 who is engaged. He's very supportive of both of us through this. He is actually very religious and he's having a hard time with it morally. (He doesn't know about EA and OW). I really don't believe that's an issue any longer.
Like me you can't believe everything they say. As for custody I think you'll do okay.
I have just started to listen to my H when he talks about D. In the past I ignored it. I found that by respecting that he needs to talk about this I am giving him validation.
Everything I read indicates that he is a classic. I only hope that he will continue to be textbook and come back.
Like you I miss him and want this to be over with. I am trying to have a PMA. We will be together for the week although I made a lot of plans for the evenings. We'll go back to the Cape for the holidy weekend. He is coming to a memorial service for my cousin in Quincy on Saturday at 4. I didn't expect that.
I'll be around all week so I'll check in.
Keep your chin up. You're doing great.
Dotto
Hi dotto,
Welcome back
Sounds like it has been an uneventful, yet at the same time eventful week for both of us (does that make sense
).
I'll check out your thread and give myself a bump
Be in touch!
Jim
Hi Jim,
Hope today was an okay day for you. Thnaks for the post on my thread. Just had a strange night. H called me today to see what we were doing tonight. He hasn't cared in months. I followed him to drop car off to son. 25 mile drive. On the way back he suggested we stop for ice cream. We talked about the upcoming weekend at the Cape. I can't figure him out. He is very curious about me being on the computer. I usually wait until he goes to bed but I figured I'd do a 180 a come down now. Spoke to a friend and he told me H told him a couple of weeks ago I am trying too hard. I have always been very agreeable and accomodating so I won't stop now. WHat do you think? We have C tomorrow. I think he will announce he's moving out. Little does he know it was my idea. He needs to feel he's in control. He's the boss at work and I was always very strong so maybe I need to let him think he's the boss here. But it irks me. Any Thoughts about asking him to leave?
Keep in touch. We're doing okay. Keep up the good work.
Dotto
Hey Dotto,
Fairly uneventful day for me. Spoke to my BIL in Holland. He and my SIL as very supportive and objective. He believes my W is saying a lot (of nonsense) as sort of an exhaustive search to figure things out. She still has this feeling that by striking out on her own, and dragging the kids along with her, her life will be better. He agrees, as does my FIL, that that's pretty absurd. She is going to Holland in the fall and everyone hopes she will find some answers.
Other than that, I've opened myself to her. I guess that means my LRT is complete. It accomplished for me what I had hoped. I feel pretty good about myself and it's clear how I will react to whatever she decides to do. Her mood is more steady now with the anti-depressant, but she still speaks out spontaneously, where I am unprepared to respond the way I'd like. I told her I wanted to continue the serious dialogue we started over the weekend. But tonight, as last night, we put the kids to bed and she immediately went to bed as well (9:00 or so). Fine with me but I wouldn't mind demonstrating to her me newfound listening skills
So a day at a time. Sometimes I think I see baby steps but then she says outrageous things. Sometimes I really think she is trying to provoke me, which will justify in her mind I am a terrible person. Today's comment of the day was "Don't you feel excited that something new is going to happen in your life?" (implying we split up, meet new people, etc.). I simply replied "No!". That was the extent of our serious dialogue today.
Anyways...about you sitch.
In reply to:
I have always been very agreeable and accomodating so I won't stop now. WHat do you think?
Well, I'm going to be brutally honest. Maybe part of your 180 should be to NOT be so agreeable and accomodating. I am not saying be unreasonable, but maybe decide what's important to you and stand up for it. I have been overly accomodating my entire M. With my LRT I figured out that if a D comes there are certain things I will not accept. She calls me stubborn (then later calls me timid and unmanly...go figure?). You say your H is a controller. Well maybe stop letting him control you. Let him know clearly what you will and will not accept. If he gets angry, fine!. Then as Michelle says "Monitor results".
In reply to:
He's the boss at work and I was always very strong so maybe I need to let him think he's the boss here. But it irks me. Any Thoughts about asking him to leave?
Why let him think he's the boss here? Why do either one of you need to be the boss? A M is a partnership. Is he being the boss, or you being the boss what you want?
And finally, ask him to leave only if that's what you want. If you don't want him to leave don't ask him to. But whatever you do, DO NOT plead for him to stay.
Well it's late. Thanks friend I hope tomorrow is not so strange. At least things are not dull!
Regards!
Jim
Hi Jim,
I know that you're right. I have to be me for me but it's hard when you want someone so badly. I think I'll sign up for an adult ed class or something. It will at least fill one evening. I have great family and friends so I'll get support. It's just so scary.
I'm glad to hear IL's are aware of what W is doing. I think that the trip will be good for her. She may see that she doesn't want to go back there.
As for her comment of the day remember "don't believe much of what they say", I have printed that section out and read it 100 times. Sooner or later it will sink in.
I hope today is a good one for you.
Dotto
Dotto,
Just bounced here from your thread.
I hope you're right that my W figures things out, for the better, when she goes to Holland. Others suspect the same. I have no clue how that will turn out.
Tonight W asked about how one proceeds toward a divorce. I told her, in sort of a business-like fashion, what I knew. She asked if we should split our assets and S first. I said why do anything before her trip? That's was pretty much it with that.
Later I 'reminded' her I was open to talk serious whenever she wanted to. She said she really had nothing to say at the moment. They never said this would be easy!
I'll check in tomorrow. Thanks friend
One last things before signing off...WALKAWAY, YOU OUT THERE? I MISS YOUR WORDS OF WISDOM!! ANY THOUGHTS?
Hi Jim,
I hope today is a good day for you. As you may have seen on my thread, last week I faced the music and let H talk about D and settlement. It's almost like when you
finally face what they want to say, they don't want to pursue it so much or they at least feel you have listened to them. It seems that when you answered about the D she didn't want to talk seriously. I wouldn't tell her you're available to talk seriously again. You've said it once and she knows it, so let her approach you if she wants to talk. I bet she won't do it quickly.
If you read my thread you'll see what happened yesterday at C. I shocked him. For the past 10 days we have gotten along great. I really believe I did a true 180 this time and it's working. Then I wonder is it working or is it my imagination. Do I want to see baby steps so badly that I'm taking for granted H being polite and friendly? Why does he still want to spend the weekend at the Cape with me if he's going to a lawyer the next week? It makes no sense to me. What do you think?
As for the trip I really believe that your W will realize that the grass isn't greener. As hard as it is and as bad as the roller coaster ride is, if we get what we want in the end it's worth it.
Thanks for caring.
Dotto
Dotto,
You're right. My W needs to talk it out. I'll answer honestly and share what I know. I won't be a barrier but nor will I bend over backwards to get answers for her (that would be insane). I did ask our company lawyer if it's possible for my W to 'take' the kids to Holland to live. He said the judge should always decide based on the best interests of the kids. If they are thriving in their schools/etc., it's not likely that could be justified. Scary stuff...god I hope it never goes that far.
I hope you're right about her trip. Time will tell.
As I said in your thread, keep up the good work! Patience and real dedication to your 180 seems to be paying off.
Be in touch and Thanks
Hi Jim,
We all need to follow our own advice. I feel that things won't come to the kids going to Holland. She'll come to her senses.
I hope I can continue what's going on. I need to remain lovingly detached. I'm wracking my brain to remember what I've done differently this past week so I can do more of the same. i guess I'm more relaxed and satisfied with me. |
Maybe that's the trick.
Thanks for your support and encouragement.
Dotto
Dotto,
Pretty amazing huh. Like they (Michele, Dr. Phil, Dr. Chapman, etc.) say, it may not feel natural at first but soon it becomes second nature.
W and I talked a little tonight. Excellent advice by the way. I don't need to remind her she can talk to me now. She knows. She said that we'll probably see the kids through this school year w/o change. Who lives where? We'll see, but it seems like she's backed away from thoughts of moving to Holland any time soon. Load off my mind! She still alluded to an eventual D, but also said that she didn't want to make any changes to the house "until WE decide to stay married OR D". Did you catch that? The 'stay married' part? I didn't ask (my LRT forbids it ...I'm not off the wagon by the way), but maybe this is the beginning of something. I WILL NOT GET MY HOPES UP!
On Friday I'm taking my S and youngest D camping to Conn. until Monday. W will stay home with my oldest D and go shopping, etc. It'll give us a little time apart.
Anyways...laundry to fold, again! It's late. I'll bounce over to your thread tomorrow.
Jim
Hi Jim,
That sounds great. What I'd give to hear "staying married". I think your LRT is going somehwere. I really think that her trip will help. She's already giving consideration to staying together. A good sign. You are doing such a great job.
Have fun with the kids. We're off to the Cape tomorrow although I'm not sure if it will be in one or two cars. But if he wants two I will drive myself. It's 104 miles door to door. Then I can actually leave early and beat the traffic at the bridge.
Isn't it nice that a little baby step can boost our PMA so high? I need a boost today. Maybe it's the weather.
I'll check in later.
Dotto
Dotto,
Trying not to make much out of anything she says, positive or negative. But the fact she said we'll probably see the kids through this school year makes me breath much easier (at least there is probably not an impending court battle).
Have a great time at the Cape. Hope the weather improves although my garden can certainly use the rain.
I'll bounce to your thread.
See ya
Jim
Jim,
I'm glad it appears no court case for you in the near future. That's good for all and as they say Time is our friend. You've been givena gift of time for the school year. Thats great. Now hopefully she will be receptive to you using this time to dazzle her with DB.
Dotto
Jim,
I just spent the whole morning reading through your thread. I get a little lost trying to figure out this site. But the good news is I found you. I don't really have any advice for you- even though I wish I did- maybe as I get better and more comfortable with this I will. I just wanted to offer my support and let you know that from what I have read you are doing an amazing job. I hope that as I progress through my trials and tribulations I can be as successful and strong as you have shown me.
Thank you for your kind words and wonderful advice. I will continue to follow your thread as there are MANY people that have great advice.
Everyday I learn something new therefore I consider myself enriched. ( kinda cheesy huh? )
Steph
Steph,
Thanks for visiting. You're amongst friends now. If you need to vent it's a great place to do it. You words can't be held against you
.
I'll be in touch!
BTW - I've tried the search feature and it helps find a member or topic.
Now I lay me down to sleep....BIG YAWN (need a Graemlin for that). It's been a long 7 months.
Wanted to wish my DBing friends a great holiday weekend. I feel blessed to have found DR and this board. You may all be faceless but I feel like I've gotten to know some of you personally (there I go, getting misty now
).
Taking two of the kids camping tomorrow. Be back Monday.
Jim
Jim,
Have a great time and enjoy the kids> I'll check in after the weekend.
I too feel blessed with my friends at DB.
Dotto
Jim,
Check out KentS. He has great advice. Hope the weekend isn't too wet.
Dotto
Hey Dotto,
Checked out some of the KentS advice. Excellent tip ... thanks! I'll keep an eye out for him. Also noticed you had made a 'pledge' to not post quite so often. I hope our dialogue continues fairly frequently. But he is right...this board shouldn't be an escape. Nor are we licensed therapists. Still, it has it's place.
Not much to tell you. Back from camping. I enjoyed myself with S & D, W enjoyed herself with other D. Nothing has changed. She says very little about anything serious. Have no clue what she is thinking. But, I try my best to be nice, helpful, responsive, etc. Think she is probably just looking ahead to her trip. So am I actually.
Hope you had a good weekend. Be in touch!
Jim
Hi Jim,
Glad you had a good weekend. So did I. I'm keeping my PMA which makes it easier to get through the day. H really is an alien. He was his old self this weekend. He actually didn't detatch at home last night either. I know I have to detatch from him this week. It's so hard to do after having spent a really nice and close weekend. But if it will work, I'll do it.
I guess we just have to keep on the roller coaster ride. I promise I will continue to post here. I'm going to be working more which will limit my time during the day but I would miss my friends too much to stay away. Besides, I need all the support and help I can get.
When is the trip?
Dotto
Jim,
Just bumping you up.
Dotto
Hey Dotto,
The trip is Oct 7-18. Two full weeks where I take care of the kids by myself. To me it's no big deal, but everyone else has this immediate reaction like 'Oh my God...can you handle it'. Well...yeah...I've taken them weekends by myself, my W does it all the time, and I'm a very competent, capable dad. My kids can be high maintenance, but doing it MY way w/o my W looking over my shoulder, getting the third degree, etc. will be very refreshing.
Not much to say really. No compelling need for advice. Just poking around a bit and see if I can help someone else in a small way.
I'll drop by your thread.
Jim
Jim,
Sounds like even though you will not be actually taking a vacation you will feel like you're on one. Good for you. You are a role model father. Kids come first- then you- then W. ENjoy, enjoy,enjoy your kids- Have a great time- be crazy and childish like them. It feels great. It will boost your morale!
You're doing great- glad you're around.
Even if you don't need any advice it's always nice to hear some positive reinforcement and get a bump up.
Have a good one
Steph
Steph,
Thanks for the kind words. I never prioritized my values like that but you hit it right on. My kids are NUMBER 1. They are EVERYTHING! I'm not as emotional as I'd like to be but through all this, it's been the times when I've thought about losing access to my kids that the tears come. It's scary sometimes how totally in love you can be with them. My W...well, I love her, I want her, but I'd be just fine w/o her.
I would add my home in there somewhere (maybe bump my W to #4
). Love where I live and don't intend to leave unless they drag me out screaming.
Thanks!
Hi Jim,
I have no boutbt that the days in October will be the best you've had in a long time. Like Steph said, enjoy your kids.
My alien is popping in occasionally and I'm anxious about the attorney but I'm keeping my PMA. This is for me.
Off to the Cape for the weekend. Hope weather is warm.
Talk to you soon.
Dotto
Hi Jim,
Just wanted to say hi. I have seen and enjoyed your posts. Your kind thoghts and wise words to so many people are wonderfull.
We share similar intrests and values and I wanted to introduce myself and say hi.
My profession is computers and I love the mountain, Hiking, Climbing, etc. Since the kids came I have not done much in the mountains but I hope to start again next summer.
Eric,
Happy to meet you. I've seen you around as well and appreciated your kindness towards others.
It's truly therapy for me to share words of encouragement. I must confess though that it's much easier to give advice than to practice what you preach, but I'm getting better.
I see that you've been here longer than most and that you and your W have come a long way. It's inspiring to those of us who hope to get there some day as well. I noticed you put 'Family' first in your list of hobbies. You're my kind of guy, although I would go further and say 'Family' is my life, and if you had to break that down my kids are 95% of it. I am not the type of guy to get together with my buddies for a few beers (or 'beeaaz' as we say in Boston). Hiking a mountain with my S is my idea of a good time. I've come to realize that I am (and will be) a pretty happy guy, w or w/o my WAW, as long as the kids are an integral part of my life. I won't deny that I feel part of me is missing right now, but that will heal with time.
Romance/dating?...I am so not ready for that. I haven't given up hope for my M, and wouldn't be fair to someone else to start a new R.
Well babbled on enough! See you around!
Jim
Jim,
From what I read on your thread. I think you our doing great and i feel very good about your marrage and its future.
I am not a go out and drink beeers kind of guy either. But I am a recovering work-aholic. Computers and changing technology is very demanding and I spent way to many years working 80 hour weeks.
I would be honered to call you a friend and look forward to visiting with you in the future.
Jim,
I wanted to wish you a good evening. Thanks for stopping by. Give big hugs and kisses to your kids.
Talk to you tomorrow.
Steph
Hi Jim
Just finished reading your entire thread in detail.
My wife was very adamant about the separtaion and we discussed divorce alot and in great detail. There was also a lot of very wierd stuff that went on (Very very Wierd).
I heard her talking to her friends about us and her plans to divorce me. Almost everything I heard expressed from her about us was her desperate need to get away from me.
But many of her actions did not match her words. Alot of great things happend via my doing more and more with the kids. Game play with the kids drew my wife in and we started playing cribbage almost every night as well as other board games with the kids and with us as a couple.
I bought her a house to move into in March of this year and Moved her in April. Durring moving her in to the house and helping clean, paint, and remodle the house she ended up telling me I might as well move my clothes in. Things have been getting better and better since.
Anyway a ton of stuff happend. I really should revive my old thread and get things written out all that has happend in the last year, gosh the last ten years really.
My wife was/is controller as well and I was the wiwp ( I have more to share on that topic if your ever interested)
Have faith and expect that your marraige is going to blossom and thrive. LRT as definded by JamesJohn is great because it gives you the detachment needed to handle the pain and uncertanty. But remember to be her friend, partner and supporter.
Hi Jim,
I saw you were at 99 posts and I'm honored to be 100. You have become such a good friend and source of inspiration to me. I hope I can be of some help to you.
Off to the Cape for the weekend. H coming tonight but heading home for community event tomorrow night. Will stay home to mow the lawn of Sunday. His loss, great beach/golf day. Any plans?
I'm sure the kids have a million events to attend to now that school has started. Enjoy.
I'll check in on Sunday.
Dotto
Dotto,
I guess no I'm over the 100 hump. I'll start a new thread soon.
No big plans. Taking my D-5 out tomorrow for 'special time'. Former OM called (1st contact for a month I'm pretty sure) and invited my W to see his house on Sunday. She seemed very casual about it. Suprisingly, it did not bother me particularly. I am 95% convince that it fizzled out (God, I'd love to be a fly on the wall). Anyways, Sunday is the day she wants to do that. I said fine as long as she is back @ 4:00 so I can play ultimate frisbee. I had thought about going to a service at a Unitarian church (as part of my LRT) but that may have to wait until next week.
Have a great time @ the Cape.
Steph,
Thanks for stopping by. I'll drop by your thread tonight.
Eric,
Yeah...call my "Wimpy" ("I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a Hambuger today"). I'd be happy to hear more about your sitch. It sounds like there's lots we can share.
Well folks, got a busy day, gotta get off this BB. I'll check back in for a bit tonight.
Jim
Hi Jim,
Hope you enjoyed time with D. Please check out my new thread. H going to attorney on Tuesday. I just tried to get him to tell me but he was very evasive. I'm really upset. I know it's only a meeting. Maybe he'll be shocked that he has to pay me alimony and keep in the style to which I have become accostumed. (Mass. Statutes) I'll take him back for any reason.
Spent weekend with old friend. She feels he's still in love with me and trying to convinve himself he's not. She sees baby steps that I have seen. What do you think?
I wish I could talk to my BB friends.
Ii hope you're doing okay.
Talk tomorrow I hope .
Dotto
Hey Dotto,
Just popped over from your thread. Hope I wasn't too hard on you over there
Not much to tell on my end. We had good weekend. W and I generally getting along very well. It's not particularly awkward for me, and I presume not for her (but who knows?). Did special time w/D-5 on Sat. She planned to go to the beach w/kids today. Asked if I wanted to go. I decided to go...it was nice...she made me a sandwich (I hadn't asked for one).
It's a little bizarre. We are doing all the things a married couple does, except show any affection or sleep together. Numerous times I have been about to rub her shoulders or something (I'm a touchy-feely kind of guy) but then I catch myself ("Oh yeah...can't do that"). She has said nothing about D, custody etc. She doesn't talk like someone contemplating divorce. Talks about pool memberships for us and kids, having tennis lessons, soccer for our D (NEXT YEAR). I can't figure it out. I told her two weeks ago I was ready to LISTEN, she hasn't taken me up on it. Perhaps she is putting it all on hold until after her trip. We'll see...I'll bide my time also.
I'll check-in tomorrow. Need to start new thread also.
Jim
Jim,
No you weren't tough on me. I need to get back in gear and stop feeling sorry for myself. My PMA had been doing well and I have to remember I like me. If he doesn't it's his loss. He will have all the employees at the bank to keep him happy. That won't last too long. He hasn't figured out that they are his employees and while they may like him and want to please him they don't love him and their caring is not unconditional love. When he finds that out I hope it won't be too late. Right now he feels they give him everything he needs. It will be a lonely life for him. He feels he wants to be alone. They give him enough. Again, I know him and hopefully this will become reality very soon. That's why I need to have him leave. He has the best of everything now. Me here when he wants company or he can avoid me when he doesn't want to be around me. He went to bed tonight at 9 because I sat in the den to watch tv with him. I try to detacth and keep away but then I say, this is my home also and I won't be exiled to my bedroom like I was exiled to the Cape all summer.
Can you tell I'm angry? Maybe I needed to get a little pissed off. I make sure he doesn't see it though. That's a 180 for me. I trying to not be predictable. I know he's been taken off guard by that.
As for your W I think you did a really great thing by telling her you'd listen. You validated her feelings and it seems that' all she wanted. Glad you enjoyed the beach. Where did you go?
Check in tomorrow. Thanks for being my friend.
Dotto
hi Jim, would you mind checking out my thread and giving me a swift kick in the a**....
thanks
Hi Jim,
Thanks for stopping by and offering some advise and support. I have frequently lurked on your thread because of the WAW theme, but have not joined in and posted as of yet.
I feel that I have healed as well and I do not harbor any resentment I would like my wife to open up and allow me to really listen. I know I can do this without reacting or taking it personally. I just want to validate her feelings and move on. I do not know if she is ready to do this but I would like to let her know she can if she wants.
I have not suggested mediation as of yet even though my wife said she did not want a battle and a long legal divorce. The letter said that she had placed the attorney on retainer. I am meeting an attorney next week that is also a negotiator, she is a former judge and has a good reputation.
One problem I have here, like most on the BB, is I don’t want a divorce. How do you really slow things down and give her a chance to take time to get a handle on her own problems and emotions before we go down this path. This is especially difficult when her family and support group are saying you can’t fix this marriage and divorce is the answer. She told me the other night that everyone says we cannot save this marriage. When I asked her who she did not answer, when I asked again she said even the kids think we should get a divorce. The kids think she may not be ready and are mad at her but in the end they want us to stay together.
I am trying to focus on myself, and have made changes. I feel I really am beginning to understand my wife's hurt and it helps explain her actions and helps me detach somewhat and be prepared to go on DBing. However the ups and downs are there and sometimes I wonder if I am wasting time and energy. I guess if I properly DB, I am improving myself and that can not be a wasted effort.
Thanks for you support,
Kevin
Hey Kevin,
Thanks for dropping by.
Quote:
One problem I have here, like most on the BB, is I don’t want a divorce. How do you really slow things down and give her a chance to take time to get a handle on her own problems and emotions before we go down this path.
Neither me or my W has ratained a lawyer yet so I am not the best person to give advice here. But I don't think you can (or should) do anything to slow her down. Don't bend over backwards but be cooperative. Even if she files there is that cooling off period so don't worry about it too much. Sounds like you are both agreeable to an amicable D. Note this does not mean you WANT a D, but your W knows this so reminding her will not help.
But when it's all said and done she will decide how she will move on, not you. You are definitely not wasting time and energy. You are DBing for YOU!! If a D is what transpires, you're much better prepared for your next R. If your W returns to you, you're much better prepared to have a much better, more fullfilling M, partially because of the ^(#$ you got through to get there.
I am starting a new thread (coming soon to a theatre near you). I'll keep the WAW theme. See you around.
Jim
