Has this happened to anyone and if so how?
Not quite divorced yet but as good as, my husband's completely sure that we're done. I've done good at GAL and have a good PMA and he can see the changes but says he's feeling indifferent to me. He's also in a new (or so he says) relationship with one of my best friends who's also separated.
We've been apart for 2 years now, but I still feel that we're doing the wrong thing.
Any advise would be much appreciated.
Hi jackk.
As I was searching for hope all last week for signs my XW didn't really want a D, I came across a few threads that the divorce going through was the only way for the couples to finally see eye to eye and explore reconcilliation, and some of them did.
So, I guess it depends on those involved. Others and I'm going to say myself included for now look at it as, it's done it's over and finally start to heal themselves and move on in life. And it's when the WAS realizes that the LBS has uprooted and moved on, answers will follow.
Hi Jack - sorry you are going through this. I am in a similar situation (divorced almost a yr, separated 2+, ex-w in MLC living w/affair partner - very sad). I miss her and hope for reconciliation as I find it hard to believe this is the best alternative and God's will.
Regarding reconciliation, I have read that people do remarry. Depending on the source, it seems between 8-18% of divorces end up remarried.
Hi Bonnyh,
Please read my story at
Part I Part II My wife and I were divorced last year. In my particular situation, I was the one who was at fault. That said, we are now back together (still got issues that we are piercing through). At takes a lot of work, DBing, patience and determination. I can't tell you how many times I felt like quitting or how many tears and sleepless nights I had. But reconciliation after divorce can happen. Read my story and I hope that you can find some encouragement from it as the odds were really against me. Like I said, I am still ironing out issues, but I know that my family was worth the fight and tears. We are not married yet, but at least I know that that is what we both want and are working towards. Please give me some more details about your situation and I will see if I can give you any advice.
Thanks
Hi lnww, JMC and dday
Thanks for replying and for giving me hope!
Briefly my story is this. I've been married for 25 years and have raised 4 kids all now grown. The problems for me started about 6 years ago. i struggled to come to terms with the fact that the kids were growing up and that I was no longer a central part of their lives. I believe I became depressed. My h tried to get me over this by focusing on what would happen once the kids left, unfortunately this came across to me as uncaring and pushy. I wanted to enjoy them whilst they were still at home and he wanted to move forward to the next phase in our lives before I was emotionally ready - I was not nice to him at this time. Then I met an ex who seemed to understand what I was going through and listened to me, it became an EA. My h found out and I stopped all contact although my heart wasn't in the m at the time. 18 months later I started to repair myself and began to look forward and cheered up I began to look forward to a life with my h. This came too late for my h and he left. I do blame myself for this and have aplogised by letter and in person more times that i can remember.
My h says that he felt a whole in his life and had done for the entire marriage but the whole became so big he left as he felt we could never be happy together and he would rather try and be happy with someone else. He needed love in his life and didn't want to get it from me.
After he left we tried MC but it seemed to focus more on our differences and lack of communication rather than how we could repair. The experience further convinced my h that we should part.
Since he's been gone I've done all the wrong things, begging etc. I mainly tried to focus on the practical issues of why we should stay married rather than the emotional. I've worked hard to be more emotionally open as he said that was one of the problems.
For the past two years I've GAL and have a good PMA (most of the time). He says he can see the changes but that they have no effect on him, he's indifferent to me. Now he's in a relationship with someone I considered to be a good friend, I don't believe that this r will last they don't have much in common and to be frank I think the attraction is that they were both separated at the same time, they became emotionally involved on the rebound. I could be wrong and they are the love of each others lives.
I'm doing my best to detach but find the balance difficult to him I come across as cold. I do not initiate contact and try to be first to say goodbye.
I've signed up to a divorce busting coach and that has been a great help particularly in getting a PMA.
Not really sure what my next step should be. I've as a goal having one positive conversation/meeting with my h, but so far haven't been successful. Each time we meet he views it negatively even if I feel positive. It's as if he's putting up unnecessary barriers and looking for the negatives in me, rather than focusing on the good. He's closed down emotionally from me and nothing will change his viewpoint.
Thanks for reading this.
Need a bit of advice. I've got my H coming round next week to get his remaining possessions. It will be the first time I've seen him for 3 months and then it didn't go well, he accussed me of ignoring him and we ended up in a big fight which probably further made him think that he was doing the right thing to leave.
We've exchanged business like emails but I think that when we meet face to fact I should go for 'acting as if' I was happy/over him/moved on. I do find doing this difficult without coming across as abrupt (thus last time he thought I was ignoring him).
What do others think?
Bonny,
All I can really say at this point is that there are 2 things you have in favor to help negotiate the situation in knowing your H for so long:
1-what not to say or do and turn the situation awry
2-what to say or do to correct #1.
Well think it went Ok last weekend. Msde myself busy whilst H cleared his stuff out although just said give me a shout if you need help. Wasn't required though One odd thing, he took all my CDs and books too. Perhaps he's looking for an excuse to return them a friend said - I doubt it though more likely just scooped everything up - we''ll see if they get returned. Had good attitude and a bit of a general talk about kids, parents, no R talk thankfully.
Back to going dark I suppose.
Did hear that he was ill the next day though - he's never ill bad luck or a reaction to the final nail in the M coffin?
It's hard not to obsess isn't it?
Good to hear there was no friction.
I can only guess why he was ill as my XW has been out of work "sick" all week so far after me having the kids last weekend and going places with them that a 'new person' and I tried out prior to taking them.
It's apparent that you went through a major MLC. The empty nest was the main trigger for you. In doing so, you triggered your H's own MLC. His actions make that very apparent.
There have been no papers filed, so stop considering yourself D'd. First thing to do is to keep a PMA. While he's been gone, what have you done for yourself? Did you look and act your best when you did interact with him? You do need to act "as if" to show him that you aren't the needy person that he left behind.
bonny,
I was in a similar sitch to you and I had a sort of MLC and wasn't sure I wanted my H anymore. Raising four children is very hard and suddenly I felt sort of surplus to requirements. I lost my joy for life whilst my H was looking forward to things we would be able to do together.
I started counselling, (cognitive behavioural therapy), and managed to turn my attitude around only to be told by my H that he had been having an A with one of his employees for the last 18 months.
My H never left but it was really touch and go for a week or so after he told me about the A- the OW had already left her H and her young children, (how could she do that to her kids???). Things got pretty nasty. However, my H has recommitted to the M and we have never looked back. We now make sure that we spend time together and always have something to look forward to.
I think perhaps you need to keep on working on yourself and become the person your H fell in love with again whilst you let his current R die a natural death. There is no point in trying to fight the R he is having whilst he is in the infatuation stage. Just keep those channels of communication open and pleasant. I was lucky that my H's A had already been going on for 18 months before he told me about it, so the first feelings of 'lust' had abated and he was beginning to see the faults in the OW.
I remember one thing my H remarked on about me was how, when things were not good between us, my face had stopped lighting up when he entered a room and how I had stopped smiling. Once that returned, the spark between us reingnited.
Keep the faith. You have a huge shared history together and a familiarity which is hard to give up forever.
Hi All
Firstly thanks so much for the constructive comments. Stuck you're absolutely right his MLC does seem to be triggered by mine. As for considering myself D'd I think it's helped me to GAL and also to detach. I do have a PMA although this has developed once I got over the MLC/empty nest syndrome.
i started to come out of my MLC a couple of months before my H left but he didn't see the positive changes in me and believes that it's only happened since he left. I've done OK at GAL, taken up a couple of new hobbies, started going to the theatre and have reconnected with old friends. I certainly laugh more than I use to.
One of the things my H dislike about me was that he felt I was a martyr to the kids - I don't agree, I did put their needs before mine, but was not resentful about it. Having said that my H travelled away alot when they were small and i more or less raised them on my own so naturally they were important to me. I believe that my H felt pushed out which was not my intention. He wanted us to go out more as a couple at that time, which I felt was impossible, with no family nearby, babysitters were non existent (difficult to find someone willing to look after 4 kids under 5!). Now they are all adults I've let them develop their own lives although obviously I'm there if they need me, but only in a supporting role.
My H can see the changes in me and has remarked that I'm looking better than I have for ages, can see the positive changes I've made but it makes no difference to the way he feels about me, he feels indifferent. The barriers are up.
Not sure how long his A has been going on, he says a few months, but the woman in question has been avoiding me for 18 months. I'm hoping as Saffie says that that's a positive thing and they are at the stage where reality has set in and he can see faults in her too.
We don't have too much to do with each other although I do endeavour to be open and friendly when we meet and act as if - not always successful though. We've had meetings that I've thought of as positive only to be told later that my H sees it another way. We spent an hour talking and I made one comment that was he felt was negative (although for me it was an off he cuff joke not a good one obviously)and he chose to focus on that rather than the 95% of positive conversation. i smile at him as often as possible, but he will not make eye contact at all.
Where to go from here?
Sorry about the length of this.
When you started coming out of your MLC fog, what did you do with your H? At first you said that you had your EA and he put a stop to it which must have made you resent him. At what point did you decide that you wanted to spend your L with your H?
Hi stuck
When my H discovered my EA he gave me 24 hours to decide whether to say or go. I thought hard and realised that the OM and me would not be able to sustain a R long-term so decided to stay with my H. I didn't resent my H over this although was very sad not be be able to see or talk to the OM. It took me just over a year to get over this. Once that was done I was ready to recommitt fully to my H. Sadly it was too late and my H had already made moves to leave me.
Describing the fog lifting is sooo appropriate, one day I simply looked at my H and felt the love return, but I didn't tell him, I was never good at talking about my feelings, something I,ve since worked hard to improve.
When my H wanted to leave I told him this and suggested dates to try and rekindle what we'd had. We went out several times, but each time it ended in disaster and we argued more than we'd ever done whilst we lived together. Resentments on both sides were bought to the surface, I thought that this was a positive, we could discuss it and move on I thought. My H took this as another sign that our R was dead.
Maybe it's too late we both wanted the same thing but the timing was wrong?
One further thing he says he left not because of the EA but because he needed love in his life and didn't want to get it from me. Perhaps he's A has been going on longer than he cares to admit.
For me the past is gone and it's time for us to build a new and stronger R. I still love my H and he knows this
Hi all
Well it's been a couple of weeks as I've been away GAL!
nothing much to report. Have stopped all contact and wait for H to contact me. As far as I can tell he's still having his a although I get the impression it oculd be on the wane - jsut a feeling not sure why. He's been a bit more available to the kids lately.
had family meal out, we all went and it was OK although he was a bit quiet and didn't really talk to me. Made sure that I looked good but he never comments although I think he notices.
Fed up with limbo - not sure how to kick start this R again. So frustrating
Ohhh! we have someone from the UK! I've always wanted to see London, been to Ireland twice. I've been on this forum and have my own thread. Haven't been around much lately..still trying to get my life in order. Anyway: Hi and welcome to hell. Regarding your above post, kick starting your relationship again, I wouldn't dwell on that too much: You will drive yourself insane. You don't want to go there. Yes, take advantage of the opportunities when they present themselves, but DO NOT force the issue. I've been mudding along myself, it's been slow, and it's not easy. Still have some REALLY bad days, like....today! That guy from New England does have a good story. Tough odds, but not impossible. It's a long ride, so buckle up. hope this helps a bit.
London's great the best city in the world IMO. Tons to do so it's easy to GAL and keep a PMA living there.
You're right kick starting is out of my hands I should just make the best of opportunities as they arise. Yesterday my H came along to watch my S in a sporting event. Initially awkward but I did my best to be calm and relaxed and although he didn't talk that much I felt it was reasonably positive - I followed it up with a thank you for coming text which could have been pursuing but then again one of H complaints about me was that I was cold and unfeeling so I thought it was a 180. Got no and didn't need a reply.
Any thoughts?
Thanks for your comments on my thread Bonny. I came over to read up on your sitch and I can definitely relate to your experiences. I think the changes in my sitch have been incredibly slow and I know they could come to a halt at anytime. However, I think reading the 5 Love Languages was a turning point for me. It helped me to really reflect on the ways I could show him my care without really pursuing. It helped me to stop being critical and defending myself which usually had disastrous results. It's hard to be calm and relaxed when you're feeling anxious to make a good impression but I think that's a key as well. I had to make a conscious effort to pull back and not drop what I was doing just because he arrived.
Good luck!
C
Hi Cas
It's a tough old waiting game and I think we're moving slowly towards friends but like you it's a husband I need I've got friends.
I've not read the 5 LL although there's something similar in an English book (am I allowed to say which one?). I've worked out that my husband enjoys quality time - difficult when we're hardly ever together and if we are it's due to a kid related activty. When we first separated I tried to do this but looking back it was obvious that he wasn't ready and it all went wrong.
Problem being I think is that I was separated for several months before I came across DB so my efforts started late. I think that the first few months are crucial before they get used to their single life or become too involved with the OW
Bonny,
I didn't come across DB for a long time and I really stuffed up by badgering him, pursuing and generally being a nuisance to him. I tried to be rational with an irrational person. What a waste of time!!
Anyway I also have a friend whose parents reunited after 3 years and they both had other partners. They're so happy together now. I'm thinking of them as I move forward.
C
Cas
Same I spent months trying to rationalise with my H. Only to be told by a mutual friend that although my H could see the logic in what I was saying he wasn't feeling it and was indifferent. It was shortly after that that I found DB and started LRT.
Today I just want to shake him, tell him that he's being an a**e and to just come home! So frustrating.
Thanks for the story about your friend's parents - perhaps it's never too late then?
Bonny, my friend desperately wanted her parents to reconcile and after 2 years decided that she had to face facts that it wasn't going to happen. Another year passed by before reconciliation occurred. It started with her Dad helping with jobs around the place and then staying for a drink and a chat and the time gradually increased and they started to really enjoy each other's company. So yes, keep at it!!
C
Not seen or heard from H for over a week. I will not contact unless it's life or death, but will remain focussed on LRT and being polite if he contacts me.
Good for you, Bonny! It took me ages to work out that this was the best course of action. It's a slow, slow journey but I really don't think there's any other way to go about it.
Hi Bonny
I haven't posted to you before but I saw your posts on Cas's thread and you are a fellow UKer
I'm sorry to hear about all you have gone through. It is so hard when our h's seemingly 'switch off'. My H is a silent switcher offer which for me is the most frustrating.
Firstly I just wanted to ask what advice, or tack, your DB coach suggested you take? You are in LRT I take it. Have you gone dark? I never went fully dark but just dim. Ususally what do you and your h interact over and how often are you in contact?
Sorry for all the questions, just trying to get a better idea of your sitch.
He’s completely out on his own and hardly ever contacts me unless it’s about the kids. Looking at the 5 ll it would seem that his is quality time which is almost impossible to pull off when we don’t have much to do with each other. Basically I’ve been following the LRT and think it’s probably the only way to go. It’s killing me though, I’m quite nosy by nature! Also I do think it suits him too, he can get on and do what he wants without thinking about me. He doesn’t tell the kids much about what he’s doing either. He’s having an A with my former friend who lives within spitting distance of my house – ouch!
A couple of months ago one of the kids moved into his place for a while and I suggested that whilst he was there my H come and do the jobs round the house that he promised to do. I emailed this suggestion and didn’t even get a reply which I thought was rude. I discussed this with the Coach and she supported that. I haven’t spoken to the Coach since though there’s nothing new to report but when there is I’ll contact her again – talking to her was helpful though.
Today I’m feeling a bit stroppy and wondering why on earth would I want the little sh*t back anyway – does anyone else ever feel like that?
Today I’m feeling a bit stroppy and wondering why on earth would I want the little sh*t back anyway – does anyone else ever feel like that?
I get that feeling so, so often. I resolve that I'm over it, I'm finished and then ...... I change my mind and give him one more chance!
Oh good not just me then.
I'm also beginning to wonder whether I actually want him back for him or whether I just want my family intact. Also I've gone down the path of reconciliation and am reluctant to give in - not that it's about giving in as such I truly believe that reconciliation is the best course for us all (including the kids). But am I just blinding myself to what could be a better life without the H?
Blimey I'm in a odd mood today
Hi Bonny
LRT is really hard, especially when you first start. Tuning yourself out to not knowing what is going on in their lives when you have been an integral part for so long is so difficult. In a way though, I find it better not to know for my own sake.
The thing is, in our situations, you can only take the opportunities that do come up to DB. For example when he comes to pick up the kids, you may have an opportunity there to look amazing, or to wear different perfume and to be mysterious. At the moment you should look at short term aims rather than reconciliation. Get his interest again by doing something different.
BTW with my h, he was supposed to come round last summer 3 times and do stuff in the house to get it ready for sale. He came once and then never again. Unless it is something they want to do, at this stage they will rarely do it. anything you ask will only look like 'demands'. I would purely respond to him, an opportunity will present itself. In fact, I started off my contact with h again by asking his advice on a work query. It was a neutral subject and men like to fix things and my h is all about work.
Today I’m feeling a bit stroppy and wondering why on earth would I want the little sh*t back anyway – does anyone else ever feel like that?
Sure do and now that a lot of time has passed, I get the feeling but with less anger and more of a 'WOW do i really want him back ' and for a long time I only thought about the parts of H I missed and now more and more bad thoughts creep in...like " Yeah - I really did get annoyed when he did ...or ....
Feels more sane and controlled and peaceful.
bad weekend, really miss my H, or do I just miss the life we had? Also OW still in picture and they've been doing stuff together involving other friends. Feel like my life is being taken over and I'm being shunted to one side - ugh! Got a bad case of the 'it's not fairs'. Better today though.
My goal is to have one conversation with my H that can't be misinterpreted as me being spiteful or malicious he seems to pick up on the tiniest thing and turn it round against me. Why is that? Guilt? Justifying his actions? Who knows and as we say here I can only control myself and not him.
Venting only.
I never initiate anything but next time we speak I will avoid anything that could be seen as contentious ie asking him how he is, which is always seen as me suggesting that he's not happy/looking good. Perhaps I should add in some sort of compliment?
Contact is sporadic though and only kid related. Therefore few and far between as they are all adults so don't need picking up from my place. He does have some stuff of mine though so I'm going to ask for it back and see if I can start a non confrontational conversation.
Oh Bonny,
I went through that all the time. Fortunately it's subsiding but even when I apologised I did it wrong. Things always got twisted and even when H was clearly rude or insensitive it somehow came back to being my fault.
Sure hope you're feeling better today.
Cas
Hi Cas
Yes loads better today. PMA on the up and I'm off out tonight wiht work colleagues so GAL too.
Perhaps I should get you ll book what's it actually called?
Are you thinking of the 5 love languages, Bonny? It's by Gary Chapman
Hi there bonnyh,
As you can see from my signature, I have been at this a very long time. I didn't find this BB until I was in the sitch for almost 3 years.
After reading your thread, I see things in your sitch that I have already experienced.
We have been married roughly the same amount of time.
Your 4 children are all grown up now, my son is 13. The fact that your H does not need to see you to see them does eliminate a lot of possibilities for contact. I am grateful that my son is still young enough to create a certain amount of contact. Although I believe that my H makes contact with us to see me and son doesn't still enter H thoughts too much.
My H when he left....he left. He fled. We own a business together and I worked in the office. I saw H almost everyday which made it easy for H to see my changes. It took me 4 months to literally go from panic when he left to a changed person. I have maintained the changes for so long now, it is now who I am. My H ousted me from my daily duties at our company about 18 months ago. He had no need to see me and still made it a point to see me, the longest he has ever gone without contact is 3 weeks. The whole time he said he watched me like a hawk. He noticed the changes and realized I am the person he fell in love with again. It's my changes the recreated our friendship and it's the fact that I greet and treat H everytime with kindness, friendship, compassion, love, respect, forgiveness, etc...that has rekindled our relationship this far.
The man went from hating me to now enjoying me. This is very difficult. Just because we appear to be working on it, doesn't mean it's working. This will probably be very heartbreaking before we are at the end of the road....either fully recommitted in the marriage again or deciding to end the marriage for good.
My H, like yours, found any and all reason to turn the table on me. I couldn't do anything right. He blamed me for all his troubles for a very long time, probably about 31 months. I realized early on this was a part of MLC in men. When my H would treat me this way I sat in silence, refusing to be a part of his game. By not feeding into it and defending myself H realized he wasn't getting what he wanted which was to make himself feel better. By blaming and downing us, it makes them feel better about themselves, it boosts their ego, it masks their guilt and shame and lies they tell, and in their delusional MLC mind believe they are making the right choices. All the while this is happening they are not happy with themselves, they are miserable. Eventually they do realize their own actions and mistakes, this takes a long time. Mine is at this point right now.
My H fled so fast and far that he never saw his son. From the age of 9-13 my son had a father but not a dad. My poor son would go 4 months without so much as a hello from his father. I stepped up and tried to fill the void for son. I never once told my H to man-up and contact this boy. I never once took son to see H. I never interferred with H and his stupid, misdirected selfishness. I let it be. To me these were H choices and I let him live them completely. I thought and kept thinking.....H will suffer the consequences of HIS actions one day. H choices are going to haunt him and the regret will be huge. I looked at it as not my problem. I took on the role of parent very seriously and raised my son. I take credit, H cannot. H just admitted that he made huge mistakes with son. He said his "Missing in Action" behavior towards son wasn't intended, it just happened that way and he is sorry. He wants to do more with him now. I just hope it isn't too late. Son has developed definite opinions regarding his father brought on by pure neglect and abandonment, all choices made by his father. I have taught son to treat H with respect regardless. So far son is behaving like the bigger person, I am proud of him. I worry one day son will let H have it though.
Sorry this is so long bonnyh, sometimes I just get started and I can't stop. I tend to be a long poster. I have a huge passion for the topic.
I have to go to work. Will chat with you later on...take care,
Sanderika
Sanderika
Thanks for writing. I admire how long you've been standing for your marriage, a good example to all on us in a similar sitch.
My H is out of the house and enjoying life I think, I don't believe he has any regrets or if he does I don't know about them. He sees the kids whenever it suits him, but their r seems to be a bit forced, he's doing all the normal divorced dad type of stuff which may have been suitable when they were younger but is a bit inappropriate now. They need a dad they can call up for a beer and a quick chat not one who has to go over the top and arrange big events for them. It's a bit wearing for them. They do feel that he's let them down particularly since the disclosure of OW. I'm doing my best to keep out of their relationship it's between my H and the kids. Hard to bit my tongue and step back though.
My H is resistant even to being friends with me and I'm not sure what's the best approach. Im dark and don't contact unless necessary. just biding my time and hoping for the best - difficult for me I'm an action person. But I will continue as I know I'm doing the right thing although do have my days when I wonder why I don't just forget it and start again - it passes though
Well it's been around 3 weeks of virtually no contact and not sure what's the best thing to do next. Continue? Make contact although I've not really got a reason to? I can't stand it just drifting.
Probably best to stay dark who agrees?
Hi bonny,
IMO stay dark.
Leave H adrift in his thoughts and self.
I am of the opinion, if they want to talk to us, they contact us.
If they don't want to they don't.
My H recently told me he appreciated my non-contacting approach. He said it gave him time to focus and evaluate his troubles and wants alone. I actually came right out and told him I don't contact him for anything because I do not want to be one of his problems. He said he noticed and that was one of the things I do that gives him a huge amount of respect for me.
Bonny it is so hard to know what to do because we don't know what they are actually thinking. It's all guesswork.
My H announced once again in court he wanted to postpone to work on us. I posted his court email on my thread. It reads very nice. I haven't heard from him since. Seriously. I have to tell you I am in a bad place right now. I feel lots of emotions and not one is joy.
Like you I don't know what to do next. I do know my H is very busy right now with work. I will maintain my no contact. I would love to call him and say hello and just let him know I am interested in his projects, I won't though.
It's kind of a self-preservation tool as well. If we don't attempt contact we don't risk getting hurt. I am all about saving my heart from more pain. In the past 4 years I have had more than my fair share.
Your H is going to need a lot of time to become your friend again like mine did. I wish you had a reason to contact him, it creates opportunity for him to see you are not his enemy, rather a friend instead. Can you come up with anything for a reason?
Keep the positive thoughts...time eases tensions between people,
I can attest to the truth in that for sure.
Sanderika
Hi
Had a short formal worded email from H about the kids. I responded with a short yet friendly email agreeing to what he wanted to do. It's not my place to get involved in his r with the kids. Agreed?
It's all got to come from him which is so frustrating but necessary.
Hi Sanderika
I can't find your post but would like to read up and follow it I think that we are both in a similar sitch and can maybe help each other through. What's it called and where can I find it?
Thanks
Hi bonny,
I agree that you need to allow the relationship between your H and your kids to be theirs and theirs alone. Especially since all your kids are grown up. If they all want a relationship with him they will nurture it and vice-versa. Any interference
from you at this point will only serve to make you look bad. It certainly will not bring you to a new friendship with H, which is your goal right now.
This doesn't mean that you cannot show happy interest in their goings on. I would recommend that you keep doing what you did yesterday, it was a smart approach. H will like it. If he likes it, it's a good thing!!
You can find my thread by clicking on my name and finding:
"So, does he WANT to reconcile OR NOT that's the ?"
I have not posted on it much because I can't. When I say I can't., I could, but it does not seem to do me much good emotionally. I do plan to post the highlights and keep the day to day trivia out for now. It's so hard for me. I don't know if this makes any sense or not to you.
I am planning on updating it soon....
I think I am at a point in time where I am OK with the sitch as it is....if it goes either way I will be fine. It seems once a person reaches the point I am at the emotions calm way down and you actually harden to it all. I am for the most part now without any emotion. I have a hard time being angry, crying, happy, hopeful, etc... I know I hurt, maybe I am somehow masking the rest. I feel rather numb now..... Rambling here for the most part....
I have some great friends and we get out and have fun. I have a wonderful 13 year old son, he is joy to do stuff with. I have two jobs that keep me busy. I have my home, I maintain alone. My life is full enough for now....I will keep DB, I truly want my H to come back to us. Standing for me isn't so much of an option anymore, I have invested way too much time on it to turn back now.
Thank you for showing interest in my sitch, it's fun having friends on this BB, this is a wonderful group of people.
Have a wonderful afternoon!!
Sanderika
Questions of the day. My H sent some stuff back to me via the kids. I’m not happy with this, they should not be used as ‘go-betweens’. We’ve previously discussed this and I thought we agreed that we wouldn’t use them in this way. So what to do, 1. Email requesting that he doesn’t do this again which would set a boundary but may annoy him; he may respect this eventually? 2. Let it go, keep the peace even though I’m unhappy. Is it too trivial to bother with?
I wouldn’t care if any other friend returned stuff through the kids, but then he’s not any other friend is he?
Hi Bonny,
I agree the kids should not be used as go-betweens.
I have never had the problem. It's going to be hard for me to answer so I hope someone else chimes in here as well with an opinion.
For me it would depend on the content of the item. Something of trivia would not bother me as much as something I would rather they not have knowledge about.
There are so many variables......
It's possible that he thought they would see you before he would, thus he sent it back with them.
It's possible it wasn't an item of importance so he didn't give it a thought that you would not approve of the mode of return.
It's possible he sent it back through them to avoid you.
It's possible he isn't thinking about the agreement you two had at all and doesn't care. In a MLC frame of mind any and all agreements are in the moment only, good for right now....next time it's something completely different.
It's possible he has completely forgotten about the agreement altogether. Again back to the MLC mind.
If your H is in MLC he doesn't care if you are unhappy. Setting boundaries will definitely annoy him. It's likely that anything you decide to do here will be the wrong choice. I don't try and say this to hurt you. You cannot deal in any way shape or form with the MLC H.
I think if it were me, I would simply call and say "thank you H for returning the ( ), I hope you have a wonderful day/evening".
It's so hard Bonny, I think to create the atmosphere with your H that you are not an enemy is rather important here right now. He doesn't view you as a friend right now. You need to give him thoughts that he can approach you without being condemned for something everytime you two connect. If everytime you guys see or talk to each other, you are pointing out a displeasure on your part to him he will avoid you. He cannot handle what he will consider your problems and will avoid you like crazy. Remember right now it's all about his likes and wants.
I do not agree one bit with the thoughts that run through a MLC mind. I think it is crap. I have learned to navigate through in dealing with one. I also realize there are similarities and just as many differences because the men are different people with different personalities.
If you read about me, you will see that I decided against boundaries. In my sitch boundaries would not have helped one bit. They would have created the end of my marriage so fast I would not have seen it coming.
In a way your H is setting a boundary with you by using the kids to return the item. Let him have his boundary. It's his choice and at the same time his loss. There will be consequences. That is why I simply would say thanks and offer a nicety, and I would do it with an upbeat tone wearing a smile. Then let it go.
I hope this is helpful, there is no way to know how to approach something. This is when hindsight is 20/20. Unfortunately we are not equipped with the talent.
Have a good day bonny,
Sanderika
Hi
Yes it's trivial just books.
You're right though I don't think he's given it a thought. He's certainly not considered the implications of using the kids in this way. He seems to have stopped thinking about anyone apart from himself. He knows that the kids disapprove of OW yet he continues to see her even though he says it's not important. If it's not important and you're kids don't approve you don't do it right?
Anyway back to the original question. I think you're right I will just thank him for returning the books and leave it there. Of course if he continues to do this particularly over more important issues I will then remind him of our agreement.
I could put something like:
"Thanks for returning the stuff. It's appreciated. BTW I thought we'd agreed to do that sort of thing directly rather than through the kids?"
Which shouldn't upset him but will remind him of what we agreed.
Thanks Sanderika. Any more thoughts. Anyone else got an opinion?
Hi Bonny
To me it feels like you are playing 'Mum' to him if you use that phrase, I don't think he will take too kindly. How does he normally give you stuff?
He hardly ever has to give me stuff so I suppose it's unlikely to happen much anyway.
Thanks guys. Your opinions have been really helpful.
It's a simple 'thank you' then.
This sitch has rendered me unable to make the simplest decision sometimes. Ugh!!
I'm probably over analysing everything. Difficult not too.
This sitch has rendered me unable to make the simplest decision sometimes. Ugh!!
Oh, I so know that feeling.
I make pretty big decisions everyday in my life and yet when it comes to h I am rendered practically incapable! When he left it destroyed a lot of my confidence and it is taking me a while to get it back. When faced with rejection like that it builds fear and makes it really hard. What you're feeling is perfectly natural and is what the board is for
Me too, still that was last week.
H away on the weekend so haven't got reply to me thank you email. One's not really necessary although would be nice.
My goal I think should be getting back to being friends. It's true what Sanderika says he's got going to approach me if he always feels on edge and that he's going to get an earful. So my goal is to get some sort of dialogue going probably through email at first as that's how he normally contacts me.
I've got a few jobs to do in the family home and should ask him to do them but I'm not going to - best to remain dim if not dark right?
Is there someone else you could ask to do the jobs? Would it make him take notice if you were getting along fine without him? Either you doing the jobs yourself (independent) or having someone else in your life that could "take his place" and take care of those things instead of him? That might be a something different enough to shake things up a bit ... but I don't know your situation.
If you do plan on taking care of it, might now hurt to let it slip that he doesn't have to worry about it anymore? (Maybe?)
Trouble is one of his problems with our M was that he felt that I didn’t really need him so asking him is a sort of 180. Having said that I did ask him to do stuff a few months ago and he completely ignored my email. A friend did do something for me a while back and my H was very put out by that. So I seem to be getting missed messages or maybe I’m just over analyzing.
What I’ve done is borrowed a piece of kit from a friend who then offered to do the job for me. I’ve said yes and not informed my H. The kids will no doubt fill him in anyway – remaining mysterious is difficult with 4 kids.
My approach is that now we’re separated it’s not fair on him for me to go running to him every time I have a problem we both need to lead our own lives. This is what he said he wanted and I’m hoping that the reality of that isn’t as great as he thought it would be.
Hey Bonny
Firstly, what are the jobs? Secondly last time, how did you ask him? This could be an opportunity here to do things differently AND appeal to man's instinct to help. You can also massage his ego a bit by him feeling good doing them and you complimenting him on what a good job he's done.
Maybe ask him for some help, letting him know that a friend has offered help if he "isn't able" to help you. That way he knows he is needed and his ego is built, but he also knows that if he chooses not to help you, you will be ok - but someone else will be there to fill his place.
As long as this doesn't come across as an ultimatum, I don't see the harm. But you know your own situation!
I found what worked was not asking. Letting him see what needs to be done and accepting his offer. Be creative...
JCJ – it’s building stuff round the house, going up ladders (I’m too scared).
Last time I asked him by email and I’ve just re read it and it probably did seem to him to be too pushy, didn’t even get a reply to that one. That time I got it done and paid someone. If I phoned it would put him on the defensive I’m trying not to do that. Still at the rebuilding friendship stage.
I think it might be better to get on with it on my own, I’m sure he knows what needs to be done, if he offers I will of course accept.
Unfortunately his ego is pretty big enough already, OW plays the simpering little woman card and he’s being doing work round her house for months. So basically he’s paying for someone else to do up his house whilst doing up someone else’s for free – so who’s the mug?
Yes, but that is the key to the OW! They build up their ego and you are perceived to be bringing him down. Who are they going to look to be with - the positive or the negative??
Does he ever come round to the house? Perhaps you could be doing the jobs when he does and ask him to hold the ladder for you. I betcha he would take over and do it for you.
Hardly ever comes round and I'm not expecting him to.
Good plan though, me up the ladder with the H down below. Hold it, more like knock me off it!
I'm not the simpering type and that's what he loved about me when we were M, he was proud of the fact that I could do anything. Apparently that's not what he wants anymore - he told me as much. It's the old it's not you, I've changed routine
I ask H to do things for me but I always give him an out- I was wondering if it would be possible for you to..... and then add that it's no big deal if he doesn't or I understand if he can't cos he's busy. Most often he does help. For example he picked up my new dryer (it sisn't fit in my car), hung it and took away the old one.
Cas
My friend’s done the job so if my H upset that I didn’t ask him it’s too late.
OK I’ve been trying to get some sort of ongoing email conversation going in order to open up communication between us. It started well and he responded to an email that didn’t really need a reply which was good, I then replied and asked a question about one of the kids so far (although it’s only been 1 day) no response. Yet the other month when I asked a question about the kids I did get a response. I’m finding it hard to determine a trend here. Of course as we don’t have day to day contact I’ve no way of knowing if he’s even read it yet.
Not much further to report still no answer to my email.
I'm getting impatient and finding it hard not to obsess about OW.
My H seems to be further distancing himself from both me and the kids. He's got a scheme whereby they visit him once a week and occassionally one day on the weekend, but doesn't seem to want to have much to do with them in between those times. It's not what they need/want and it's making them lose respect for him, that's their R and I shouldn't interfere, difficult though
Bonny, in my sitch I found H took a long time until he initiated calls and activities with the kids. It was as if he just couldn't cope with their company. His invitations were always issued at the last moment. That has changed significantly in the last months and he is always on the phone to them and texting them. It took him ages before he finally realised that only he could fix the relationship with his kids. It's tough as an onlooker cos I just wanted to 'fix it'.
I'm fed up with affirming and validating and being accommodating when my H is behaving life a complete a$$e wipe.
I'm hearing you Bonny!! I get that recurring thought at least monthly!!
I’m having real problems detaching. I have to work on this and also trying not to fix stuff. I should learn to let it be.
Right this weekend I have two important things to do 1. Help my D move and 2. Drop the other D off at a wedding and pick her up afterwards. I’d sorted out the logistics of doing both and was looking forward to the day.
The other day one D asked her father to take her to the wedding and he agreed even though he knew that I’d planned to take her (I think she was trying to be helpful). I was upset by this, I’ve know the couple getting married for several years and would have liked to have seen them at the church etc. Anyway mentioned this to D who then told her father that he needn’t give her a lift. That’s when it all kicked off. Got an irate phone call , I was being selfish and ‘why couldn’t I just let him take her and I was keeping the kids away from him etc etc’. Suggested that he came and helped with the move (as I’ve hurt my back) as that’s where he would be most helpful. But no apparently he’d got plans (with OW I suppose).
The upshot is that I help move and probably do my back in and he takes the other to the wedding.
I was told that he didn’t want to do anything with me at all. I lost the affirming plot here and tried to argue the point (mistake). My view is that we share kids and in order to make this easier for everyone we should be cordial at least to each other. My H doesn’t see this and thinks we should be completely separate apart from getting together at kid’s birthdays only. Which are awkward as we’ve not seen each other for weeks, following his ‘rules’.
I’m trying hard to establish a friendly atmosphere between us, it’s not working and I’m not sure where to go from here.
I keep stuffing up. Or looking at it another way my H puts up unclimbable barriers if we start looking like we're making progress. Or I'm imagining the progress and it's not there at all. Over analysing moi? Never
hi Bonny
Would it make him take notice if you were getting along fine without him? Either you doing the jobs yourself (independent) or having someone else in your life that could "take his place" and take care of those things instead of him?
i agree with Irish - demonstrating that you can get along fine without him might make him get interested in you again. BUT it could take some time.
In my sitch, i was the one with the MLC, and i agree that when a person is in MLC, it's all about them and they are not interested in how it's making anyone else feel. The big turnaround for me was when H started a R with a neighbor 10 days after I announced my departure. I wouldn't recommend this approach to anyone - it's taken 1+year to get to a point where we are reconciling and enjoying each other's company again.
I am only trying to illustrate how true the remark of Irish is: show that you are fine without him, ideally cheerful and 'ready to move on' and that will eventually spark H's curiosity. In other words, 'GAL' like Michele says in her Divorce Remedy book.
And i used Michele's telephone coaching also, it was a lifesaver for me.
Hi Bonny,
I've been away for a week and have just caught up on the last week with you.
This will be a long post....grab a cool beverage!!!
First back to the book return.....A simple thank you with a nice friendly tone and perhaps a small other word of kindness was perfect. (This is where you learn you need to avoid ALL chances to rip his head off and also you do not want to come off as constantly berating him for not meeting your expectations. This WILL serve to only drive him further away.) You do not need a reply from him, trust me....he got the simple thank you and appreciated it.
Trying to win his friendship back will take a very long time. It will only be achieved by repeating constant kindness and smiles towards him. Every time you are confrontational or cross his path with negatives (his idea of negatives, by the way) you will set your hard work back. This man appears to be just like mine, I kept my mouth shut, OH, did I ever!!!! I still do..... You learn after a short while in this sitch how to approach him and when it is safe.
Next the daughter to the wedding.....IMO, I would have let him just take daughter. By talking to D, you put her in the middle and she felt so guilty she went to her Dad. You need to let things go... This is like I just described....one of those, H ideas of a negative.....Bonny crossed his path with a negative....HIS idea of a negative. I know I have stressed this, it's an important issue. This creates a set back in any hard work you have done to achieve friendship. To achieve friendship here.....you could have sent H an email that simply said "H, I can't thank you enough for taking D to the wedding, while I would love to see the bride and groom, it gives me more time to help "other" D move. Again, thank you very much and have a wonderful ride with D." You see how you work the angle to your favor.
#1: You would make points with H for thinking it is a marvelous idea, (HIS idea)(I know it was D's), let H think it's his and let it go. Big bonus for Bonny because you made H feel very good. (I know this is not Bonny getting what she wants, this is the zip the lips thing.) Eventually with enough of these situations, H will come to you with his ideas and thoughts about the kids first and then other things.
#2: You would make more points to H as being friendly and not the enemy. H will feel validated by your thanks. A big boost to the ego for him. A big star for Bonny.
#3: You will make points with H by allowing him to help the kids and spend time with them. This makes Bonny look very good. H is happy and that's a great thing. Trust me here, at the beginning and for a long time, they assume you are keeping the kids from them on purpose and will throw it in your face at every chance. This is what you learn to avoid. Instead of allowing them the thoughts they WANT to think of you, show them the opposite. (I am sure you are not keeping the kids from H. They are grown and can now do what they want, H will still assume different.)
In the MLC mind he WANTS to think bad thoughts of you and so he will. It's your goal to prove him wrong and you can prove him wrong by changing your behavior and doing the unexpected towards him. Be the bigger person and be nice, nice, nice. Do this until it changes you and you create a Bonny H enjoys. Then keep it up...no sliding back.
Now the house repairs and chores....DO NOT ask H for help in any way, shape or form for anything. First try and figure out how to do it yourself and do it....You will look independant, self-sufficient, intelligent, talented, capable, happy, etc... This is a good thing. For the things you cannot possibly do for lack of knowledge, strength, etc....find someone other than H to assist you. Do not even consult H with the problem.
I recently had a convo with my H on this very subject. I told him I made it a point to take care of things by myself or find someone else to help me. H said he appreciated it. By doing for myself I wasn't being one of H's problems and it was one of the things that held H attraction towards me. I looked strong and not needy or whiny. It is a quality men find desireable in a woman. If, and when, H comes to you and offers to do for you, accept the help with grace and thanks. This will take time. I spent 2+ years rebuilding my friendship and then it was only after the D was filed last October did H start to come around and offer to do for me.
Here's a example of my last week....a bad one by the way for taking care of needs.
First off several months ago my household waste/septic system failed. H knows of the problem because he was here one day and the water from a load of laundry was coming out on the ground and not leaching off. With fall coming, I hired an excavating contractor.....problem fixed this week by me. No word to H about the problem before or now. Next time he is over he will see for himself it's fixed as the lawn looks different now. No need to talk about it....I took care of it.
I had a flat tire this week and at the same time my water pump went in my truck. I did not call H, I called one friend to fix the flat and I made my own arrangements to a garage to repair the pump. H does not know. I will probably tell him though at some point what happened when I feel it will make me look good.
It is a natural behavior for the MLC H to retreat back into the tunnel when things show improvement. The cause is a number of things, FEAR being number one. OW, Guilt, Shame, Ego, Selfishness, plus a variety of other emotions all play into why. Try not to put any energy into this as hard as it will be. Really, you can't fix anything right now, only time and patience and good behaviors towards H will fix this. Do not take anything he does personally, it's not your fault. This is H problem and his alone. Leave him to live it.
So....I told you this would be long.....You are probably tired of this post by now, I will close and chat with you later on.
Have a wonderful weekend,
Sanderika
Very powerful insights, Sanderika. You helped Bonny and many others, I am sure!
Cas
Hi there Cas,
Thanks for the pat on the back!!!!
I left you a medium long post on your thread.....
Playing catch up as I was away from the computer for the past week. My new job, which I now love, and a few problems kept me very busy. I am also getting son ready for another summer camp, he leaves tomorrow. School starts up again within a week of his return, I love being busy. It has not been enough to keep my mind from running amuck with my sitch though!!!!
I think, ladies, if we put our heads together we can figure this all out. It's way too overwhelming for one to solve for sure.
Keep moving forward...
Take care,
Sanderika
Sanderika
Sanderika,
A wonderful post and one that I'm sure will help so many. It is so difficult to be patient and keep your heart open when it seems the situation is hopeless.
Thanks again, you made my PMA today!
Michelle
Sanderika
Thanks for the great post.
I'm doing my best to keep my mouth shut, a real 180 for me, I'm a get it all out there girl and then move on whilst my H brews a problem for ages and finally explodes and it takes ages for him to get over it.
H took D to the wedding in my car which was odd as he's never shown any interest in driving it before (got it after he left) and also helped load up van for the the other D. Quite a good few hours actually saw him smile, a first for several months. Feeling positive about all this especially since last time we spoke he shouted at me down the phone that I was keeping the kids away from him (I'm not that's his spin on it). And eye contact!!! he's avoided that since I found out about OW. So all good.
It's not exactly a baby step but it's a positive.
I will email a thank you next week and take it from there. My goal is to get an email correspondence going as that's non threatening and is to his work so he can choose not to tell OW if he so wishes.
Thanks all.
Surely this can't be beyond the problem solving skills of Sanderika, Cas, Irish et al. It's not going to be easy but I believe we can make it.
Bonny that is great! Doing what works, even though it is often counter-intuitive, is so satisfying, it is what I love about DBing. Yay, for a positive interaction.
hi all
I'm going to wait a day or two to reply to any emails so I don't look too needy, desperate and pushy. I'm not actually I've come to realise that whilst I do love my H I'm doing great on my own, sometimes it's easier and to be honest more fun.
I would like to develop a friendship though I believe it's important for the kids they all think it's awkward when we meet up and I want to avoid that. But friendship has to be a two way thing.
Also I'm suspicious of why he was friendly to other day, guilt cos he'd shouted down the phone at me, realised that he'd over reacted or trying to soft soap me for the next step? Over analysing I know, but in the past he's been friendly and then dropped something bad in, I'm trying not to be suspicious but the next time we speak I wouldn't be too surprised if he asked for a D. We shall see.
Hello Irish,
Thank you for the kind words.
I am glad I have helped with your PMA!!!!!
This is hard, it's nice to be here with people who have been where we are sharing their wisdom and focus. The information here is invaluable for sure.
Hi Bonny,
You don't always have to reply to H either.
For instance when he left your D's, or vice versa if you left first, did you thank him then, if so that's sufficient for that momment.
The next email to H could be something like:
D really loved riding to the wedding with you, I am glad you took her. So how'd ya like my car, drives really good doesn't it!! By the way, D is really enjoying her new place, thought I would share that with you. Glad you were on hand for the heavy lifting. Have a great work week.
You should be careful to mix up the reasons for your emails. To always let's say use them as thank-you's will become boring. H will see your mail and think..."it's Bonny, what's she thanking me for now?"
If you give H some gratitude in the round about way by stroking his ego and mentioning a few things as little nudges to open conversation he will eventually take the bait sort of speak. At some point, and be patient, H will respond to your email with the same. This is how the friendship will begin, teeny weeny baby steps. It has to always be lighthearted, fun and validating while being free of problems, confrontations and negatives. H has to learn to trust and feel safe, let go of the fear. It's like teaching a baby how to walk. They hate to let their guard down and trust that they can do it. They learn to walk though by letting go of the fear.
Bonny even if your H comes back with a D paper in his hand it doesn't mean it's over. I am proof positive of that. Don't dwell there yet. It's not wise....Think good thoughts and be positive.
I do know what you mean though about suspicions. It does seem when they are nice they want something. In my case, I have found it usually isn't/wasn't a bad want though.
You seem the opposite of me on this one....
In my case when H came by and was aggravated and irritated and distant it was when he was really pondering a D. That seems when he was most likely to mention it. I learned right from the get go that it was also the same time OW was pushing hard on him to get one.
Keep the faith, girlfriend....
(((((Bonny)))))
Sanderika
Some great ideas here Sanderika thanks. I will continue to attempt to get an email convo going but will mix it up a bit so it’s not just about thanking my H for something or another.
Bait not taken so far, but then no one ever said this was going to be easy.
Could do with a bit more help round the house, H knows it needs doing, hasn’t offered so far. I’ll just get on with it then and see what if I get any reaction to that.
Be patient, H will take the bait eventually...
They don't come around in thinking for a very long time and it takes lots of repeat performance on your part to "crack the nut"!!!
Eventually it "cracks" and then it is still only with caution that they let their guard down converse with you and open up.
Maintain a certain behavior and practice patience is really all you can do at this point in time. The rest is up to H. If you create a Bonny H likes, how can he D you??? That was kind of my goal. I have succeeded here, at least for now. It's still all about time and patience.
Exactly Bonny, attempt to fix things up yourself. When H sees your accomplishments he will be proud of you even though he won't say it. Don't feel the urge to run and tell him either. He will notice or hear about it even without you telling him. Should you get something taken care of, to act "as if" it's really no big deal looks more attractive. However, if H inquires how you did it or offers a compliment for a job well done, make sure you give him a brief answer and thank him for his interest and obviously thank him for any compliments. Thank you's are always validating to his thoughts and feelings and so it serves to boost his opinion of you.
Remember, you want to look strong, independent and capable and strong, independent and capable are beautiful qualities.
You can do this....what would you like to tackle first?
Will chat later,
Sanderika
I think part of the trouble is that I’m already strong, capable and so on. My H complained that I didn’t need him (one of the reasons he left) and OW is certainly the simpering type. He will I hope revert to type and decide that he wants someone a bit more independent. However if I ask him to do something for me (a 180) he ignores my request. My view is that I have to get on with it, I don’t expect any comment much less compliment. That’s just the way it is.
Dammed if I do, dammed if I don’t.
This will be a hard nut to crack.
Email conv not going well, still being ignored. Continue for a while longer or do darker?
Just wait and be patient. There used to be 10 day- 2 week lapses in between emails with my h. That was right up until February this year.
I agree. It's hard, but be patient. The conversations are SO MUCH better when it was their idea to initiate it. Then you know that they wanted to contact you, even if it doesn't seem like it in the tone.
Just keep remembering how much you do appreciate him. Pray for him. Think kindly of him. Be patient. Your attitude will come across to everyone and he's bound to hear about you from others, even if he is not having contact with you. And if he does have even brief contact with you, he will be able to see your new attitude.
Bonny,
If you have already sent the "thank you email" about the drive to the wedding and the help with the move, etc...., and you haven't gotten a reply yet be patient. I assume it was two days ago or less, give it time. If you try and respond right now you will come across as desperate and chasing.
Find comfort in the fact that you stepped out on the limb and offered an olive branch of friendship to H. I am sure he received it and was accepting of it. For now DB would be to have no expectations of a reply.
Out of curiousity, what did you say in the last email you sent?
This is a hard part. Muster the patience for H and give him time to do his thing. Patience isn't always easy. That's why we GAL. Try and keep your mind off a reply from H by staying busy.
Irish is right here. Keep thinking good thoughts of H so that when he does contact you come across with kindness and admiration. No matter what H does, you have to be the bigger person and you have to be able to greet and treat him well.
IMO, Your H still goes for the strong, independent and capable type. He still loves you, he always will.
IMO, The OW is a distraction for now. It is a big boost to his ego. It is all temporary. It is a MLC delusion. While the relationship is new it is fun. When he tires of the whining and insecurities and controlling demands and immature behaviors he will begin to think again that it's not worth it. That is why you change, gal and greet and treat him well til things change on that front. They will change. Her true colors will show and H will not like them so much. If we were not to change our Hs would go from that bad relationship right into another bad relationship. If our Hs like what they see in us they are more likely ro re-visit their marriages, especially those who really can't seem to go through with a D from us.
Love H from afar for now. Let him make his own choices. Be there when he wants you. It's not over yet!!!
Take care and hugs, I know how you are feeling.....
Sanderika
Thanks for the interesting input.
It’s been two days and no reply. I wasn’t really expecting one but it would have been good.
I decided against thanking my H for taking/helping. From his perspective he was helping the kids not me, so not wanting to interfere with their relationships, it’s up to them to thank him. I did thank him for the one thing he did for me though. Then put in a short chatty bit about the wider family.
Trying hard to be loving from afar, I will keep Irish’s and Sanderik’s comments with me – it’s a good idea to keep thinking good thoughts and let my actions or interactions with others speak for themselves. I’m working hard to validate his actions to the wider family and am not being vindictive. Difficult though.
Continuing to be patient.
I agree that it is sometimes hard to stay loving when the wider world (and especially family) is angry with the choices he is making. I faced so much vindictiveness from family and friends, so much venom, and I just decided that if I let that in and wallowed in it I would just be bitter and angry... not what I wanted to be. So it has not really been a difficult thing for me to be loving from afar, because that is how I feel. It has been much harder for me to ride the roller coaster of HIS emotions pulling me close and pushing me away.
Good luck with your patience and happiness.
Hi Bonny,
Just checking in.....
Assuming you have not had a reply. Don't let it bother you. Let it go....
Hope you are doing OK.
Maintain your PMA and Patience....
Take care,
Sanderika
Hi Bonny,
Congrats on being patient....what a skill!!
Hope you are doing ok.
Guess it's important to remember to have no expectations!
Cas
Hi guys
Yep no reply although I did receive an email from him on a completely unrelated subject.
So now I’ve got two goals.
1. To get an email correspondence going. I continue to do that as it’s a bit too soon to work out whether or not it’s working. Not sure whether this is specific enough and also any reply from my H is out of my hands, but I’m going with it for a bit longer.
2. Do the loving from afar thing. I’ve noticed that putting this to the forefront of my mind is changing my attitude towards my H for the better. All we need now is for him to notice the change – that’s the difficult bit. Still early days. I see this goal as working on me rather than directly putting the M back on track.
Yep, Bonny, I like the idea of working on you. That's where I am at, still!
Cas
Hi bonny,
That really is all you can do, work on you.
I hope you can get the email going back and forth. Just remember to keep it light and positive and no negatives.
Men speak in logic and have no use for emotional stuff.
Love him from afar, he will notice. He is watching from afar for sure. Don't disappoint him.
I think with time, after friendships are(re)built, is the only time a reconcilement is ever possible. The friendship must feel good on both sides and be free and fun. As long as OW(s) are in the picture it cannot go beyond a friendship. This is where DB gets toughest. DB is all about getting you back and second getting H to notice and hopefully want to come back to us.
Keep working towards your goals. You will be the better for it.
I am a downer right now. I have lost my get up and go for a bit. I am sorry if I come across that way. I am looking for better days.
Take care,
Sanderika
Feeling positive about me which is the best feeling. I know that I’ve changed loads for the better since my H left, I look better, I act better, I’m more honest and open, I do more interesting stuff and I don’t smoke. I don’t cling to the past and whine about what could have been and I’ve allowed my kids to grow up into fantastic people who are discovering their own way in the world. They know I’m there when needed. My H has noticed of that I’m sure, but don’t think he act on any of it, that’s his loss. That’s really out of my hands and therefore something I can’t worry about.
The door will always be open to discuss reconciliation if he so wishes; friendship is another matter. Not sure that mine and his idea of friendship are the same, friendship just on his terms when he wants it is not good enough for me. Had enough of crumps. Continue to love from afar though, not letting that go just yet.
Cas, JCJ, Sandrerika and Co welcome to my fabulous world – join in it’s great. Chin up girls best foot forward
Sanderika,
You are right on about men being logical, however while we do not need all the emotional stuff, some is still good. Other than that, I pretty well agree with entire post. PMA Baby!
Shock
Hey there Shock,
Thanks for the...."attah girl - good post"!!!!!
I've never been one to suffocate my man with emotional stuff so I will keep it in mind that guys don't mind a touch of it here and there.......
It is refreshing to have a male point of view chiming in here.
Maybe you will give us your opinion more often.....
Gonna work to get my PMA back on track, I have lost my way for a few days....hittin' a rough patch of road.
Thanks again Shock,
Take care of yourself,
Sanderika
I am pretty new to everything, my D took a fast train to Dtown so I didn't get a lot of learning of the DB stuff before it was over. I will definitely try to give a guys point of view when possible.
Definitely gotta get that PMA back, or better yet SMA, (superior mental attitude)
Just remember, GAL back, work on you for you, not him. In the end of the "battle", all you need to remember is that regardless, you will be a better person.
Shock
Hi Shock,
Thanks for another post. Hope you hang with us a while.
I'm working on it.....I really am.
I'm already the better person.
H is still so far out there it isn't funny (or maybe now it's pure hilarity). I think H is entering year 6 of MLC Land. It's a reality I have lived with for so long and am so tired of. I thought this year we were seeing the end if it. We had developed great communication and a very nice friendship, albeit this has been 4 years post bomb in the making. I just recently learned some information that makes me believe that H is no where near the end. My intuitions are telling me that I am not wrong.
I don't want to reiterate all here on Bonny's thread, I have been back posting on my own all the details, fears and my thoughts and feelings about it all.
The latest thoughts that there is another OW woman are way too much for me. BTW the original OW has never been cut out of the movie.
PMA is going to be a while in returning. Got lots to sort out.
Wouldn't mind if you popped over to my thread and offered your .02!!!
I'm sorry your D happened so quickly. I somehow feel it must be better than dragging it all out like mine has. I can't get the years back we've spent in limboland. H of course has been living it up and I have been holding down the fort. This way you can feel free to do whatevah you desire. Your still young enough....you have a world of options.
Thanks Shock, I really appreciate your input.
Sanderika
Still feeling positive. Think I've finally got the hang of the whole detaching thing. Only took 18 months, I'm I slow or what.
Still Bank Holiday here in the UK so an extra day off, yippee. I'm going to the seaside to take photos.
Still not heard from H, it's been about 2 weeks now (not even counting).
Think the deal's been broken, I'm fairly sure there's no way back to the M, but I'm looking forward clearly. I'm going to be more than OK
Hey Bonny
You sound good
I went to iknit to learn to knit. I am terrible though things seem to turn out triangle shaped whatever I try so I knit to relax not to create
Keep up the good PMA, Bonny. Detaching is sad and scary to me, but better than staying on the roller coaster. You can only take that for so long when you have no control over the choices. You can be sure that he is appreciating the space you are giving him, if nothing else.
Hope you have a great day at the seaside. I wanted to take my kids there this week but time just got away from us.
Hi Bonny,
Just checking in to see that you are doing ok
Cas
Hope you had a good bank holiday Bonny!
Well still not heard from the H s not much to report.
Still feeling positive though, had a great weekend out and about. Went to the pub for a quick drink with the kids and it occurred to me that my H would never be able to do that without organizing it days in advance. Which is sad, the kids are at the stage when they are leaving home and I’m going to enjoy them whilst there still here. My H has missed out on nearly two years of this more fool him. And for what a woman who’s less than half my equal with screwed up kids. Good luck to him I say!!
Bonny,
Good for you for seeing your blessings in this. A strong relationship with your kids is a huge blessing. I'm sure that they are thankful for this time with you, and it is obvious that you are thankful for your time and relationship with them.
Keep up the good work! We are here for you!
Hi Bonny
What are your aims at this point?
Hi JCJ
That’s a good question and one I’ve been pondering.
I’m doing good with the PMA and GAL stuff. Detaching is going well, a bit too well maybe. I’m at the stage where I really know I’ll be OK either way, before I think I was telling myself I was but didn’t really believe it – faking it until you make it as they say a lot round here.
I would still consider reconciliation, but my H has to come to me for it, I’m not seeking it. I do have a caveat though, I would not consider it until OW is completely out of the picture and there’s no contact whatsoever. I won’t even speak to my H on this subject until this is done and I believe that it’s done.
My focus has shifted from restoration of the M to building a friendship. When the R is on better footing then I can decide if I want reconciliation.
Having said that I still love my H and want to have a R with him (it’s necessary as we’ve got kids). So……..
I think I’ve reduced the angry feelings that my H has towards me. There’s still some work to do here though, the other week he really went off at the deep end about my keeping the kids from him (which is rubbish and anyway they’re all adults so how could I?). But then later came round as if nothing had happened – realized he’d gone over the top, but not able to apologise maybe? A need a specific goal to work towards this – not sure what though.
1. Loving from afar. This is working (well it is for me, have no contol over H of course). I’ve made sure that I only make positive remarks to the kids re my H, in the past I’d have kept quiet. I’ve suggested that they go round and see him rather than ignore him. The kids are more forthcoming about their R with him rather than before they were a bit guarded. I’ll continue to do this.
Working towards friendship, my goal would be as before.
2. Get an email exchange going. I’m having a mixed reaction to this, I sometimes get a reply and sometimes don’t. There doesn’t seem to be much pattern. Maybe I should mix it up and start texting/phoning (although I did delete his no from my phone). Not sure whether I should continue at all and just contact for financial/family matters. He’s away at the moment so I’m going to give it one more go and if it peters out again, I will be sure it’s not working and change tack.
I know that we should break goals down into something achievable in the short term but that’s not really practical when we are physically separated from our H.
I need a bit more specific input to knock this into shape so I will be talking to my divorcebusting coach, Laurie, when I can sort it out and see if she has any further suggestions.
Any help from you lot here would of course be most appreciated.
I know that I need patience but I’m getting frustrated that I’m just drifting along without any indication that the R is being rejuventated and nothing’s really shifting one way or the other.
Hi Bonny
Sorry not to have posted sooner! When are you going to be speaking to Laurie?
It's annoying when things drift isn't it?! I would start to do something different but I guess that you will be speaking to Laurie who will have better ideas. But if you want to brainstorm, I'm happy to help if you like.
Hi JCJ
Still to make the appt but I'll do it next week and hopefully speak with her soon.
No really sure what she or anyone for that matter can add to the sitch. The facts are that my H has gone, has OW ( woman who I considered a friend and lives about 200 yards from my house) and for all I know is completely happy with that and as far as he's concerned he's made the right decision. No matter how much DBing I do I don't feel at the moment that will change.
It's been about 3 weeks since I spoke to him and there's no sign that that will change. I'm sure he doesn't think of me at all and if he does its negative.
Seems to me the best thing to do is go for a D myself. I love my H but can't hang around much longer I'm not getting any younger! Maybe best just to man up and get on with it.
Any thoughts?
Assuming it's over I'd like to start dating again, but wouldn't want to do that whilst I was still M. I had an EA three years ago so I've already made that mistake and wouldn't want to do it again. Dating and being M are incompatible I think. Separated and dating are incompatible too (I know I tried it wasn't for me).
I'm not going to rush into it but the next time I speak to my H I may raise the question and see what sort of result I get. Seems to be the only other thing I've not tried.
It will be interesting to see what Laurie thinks of you suggesting divorce, Bonny. As you know, it's a concept I'm grappling with, too. It's a big decision but should provide some direction for your future and the freedom for you to date again. With my confusion at the moment I can advocate for silence, moving closer and divorce all in one posting!! Think I'd better get going before I really mess you up.
Cas
Same as you, yesterday it was D definitely. Today I'm not so sure. I think I'm expecting him to ask it's been 2 years of separation so in the UK we could get D (I think not sure of the legalities).
Probably best to wait for him to bring it up,if we ever speak again, and then wholeheartedly agree. He will one day lose his temper with me and threaten of that I'm sure - when that happens rather than ignore or smooth it over I'm going to say yes, please sort out the paperwork.
It's only 1 year here so we could have been D over a year ago!
Update: Still NC last email exchange 2 ½ weeks, actual face to face contact 3 ½. Next week is one of the kids birthdays we normally go out for a family meal, my H usually organizes this – I’m waiting to see what materializes. Assuming it goes ahead how will I handle that after 1 month of NC?
Also heard from someone that H took a long time to decide on his R with OW as he was worried about the kid’s reaction. That’s bad it means he considers it to be serious. He’s had a really negative reaction from the kids and still continued the R so even though he’s lost respect in their eyes it’s obviously worth it for him. On the plus side if you have to consider all the angles before you enter a new R it can’t be all that fun can it? Seems to me they will have gone straight from being friends to acting like a long time couple without all fun getting to know someone stage, which may mean that it will work it’s course quicker. Or that they know each other warts and all and have decided to be together. MUST STOP OBSESSING. 
Assuming it goes ahead how will I handle that after 1 month of NC?
By looking great, feeling great (a good excuse to pamper yourself lots beforehand), and being confident, be yourself. Also the focus is the kids, not you or h, which will help a lot.
Hi
H made contact via email (which seems to be the preferred method for him) asking about the birthday next week. Looks like he wants to go ahead with a family meal.
Time to get out the best frock, get my hair down, smile and generally look like he's the one missing out.
Got a few good GAL things going on between now and then which should shake him up a bit. We'll see.
Coaching sess is on saturday so I may get a few ideas on how to handle it before we meet.
It's all good.
Excellent Bonny. I was hoping he's be in contact for the birthday. Just shows that he still wants that time with you all.
Hi Bonny
Just checking in on you. How's things?
Well hi all
I’ve been following up on all your threads and it’s given me loads to think about. I’m still committed to the NC route (it’s been about a month), GAL and so on. There’s been one short email exchange re the birthday this week. I asked H to do a small thing re the birthday and find it’s been delegated to one of the kids, which is a bit petty. Also a quick visit to pick the kids up, I kept in the background then.
Coaching sess with Laurie was good. She suggested that I rephrase emails and so on with my H so that he has to take a more active part rather than getting the no/yes/ok responses that I’ve had in the past or I ask him to do something and he ignores (see above). Also that I keep some sort of bridge between him and me going ie the odd email just to update him. Not sure about that yet seems to be opposite of what I’m doing with the NC approach. Which by the way is working for me, not sure whether it’s helping the M though.
Have to say though seeing him in my kitchen yesterday was for me OK although he seemed to be a bit on edge. In fact I can look at him objectively at last and begin to wonder if I want him back at all. I do love my H but do I want him back in my life……the jury’s out. And just as a side one of the kids took a picture of him on his phone when I looked back at it the H looked a bit like a gnome – he he. Can’t imagine jumping into bed with Grumpy, Doc, Sleepy and co.
Ok do I actually love my H? That’s the question I’ve been pondering on and off since my H left. Or do I simply love having a complete family and my H is part of that? The dream that we will grow old together surrounded by grandkids?
This may sound stupid, but I do love my H when I’m thinking about him and I’ve not seen him. However a couple of hours in his company changes all that and I can see that he’s behaving sneaky, can’t look me in the eye, is disinteresting and disrespectful qualities that I can live without. So am I in love with the idea of him rather than the actual him? Maybe I’m in love with the man I met 25 years ago, the confident young man not the arrogant middle aged version?
In the meantime I’m continuing with the NC.
Perhaps what I need is a date – how do you get one of those I wonder? Everyone I know is too young or too married or too gay.
Bonny, love all your reflections. I'm there with you. Maybe it's because we're both hovering around that 2 year mark. I love H but until I see real, consistent actions and not just words I'm feeling jaded with him. I think Laurie might have a point with the occasional contact...it leaves the door open just slightly for communication to grow but allows you to continue in nc mode enough to let him know you are moving on without him and certainly don't need him. I have a photo of the kids which I might send him just to test his response.
As for finding a date.....I'm strongly relating to that too. I'm hoping now that i am moving away from H I might be putting out a stronger vibe to friends and family that I am more open to considering the possibilities.
Hi Bonny
Hope you dont mind me reading your sitch, Im english too so thought I'd just say hi! Im really a newbie to all this H only left seven weeks ago after two and half months of me making a pigs ear of things before finding DB. My S is twenty one so H doesnt need to contact me for the children as they have their own relationship apart from me now he is grown up although he still lives at home so I know what you mean its hard to keep mysterious! Im a bit like you in being independant, well I thought I was I might look like it but actually I had become quite fearful and reliant on H, but I have so 180 on that front and am beginning to enjoy being "miss kick ar*e" as my friend called me. Anyway any longer and it wont be just hi lol!
Hi kids
No prob Rabbit the more the merrier. This is an early stage for you so you’ve got a better chance of turning your sitch round. I did all the wrong things for months, then we had terrible counseling from Relate which made the problems worse. I probably didn’t discover DB until my H had been gone for about a year, but think if I knew earlier I’d have been more successful. Good luck to you.
Cas I’m beginning to see that there is be a difference between loving my H and loving him as a H and wanting him to come home. I know that I love him but can I now after nearly two years and OW really love him like a W should? Not sure.
Anyway tomorrow’s the family meal so need to get looking fabulous for that. Perhaps when I see him in that sort of setting my mind will have made a decision.
Thinking of starting a club with my mate, it’s called FLAB (Find a Loaded and Attractive Bloke) anyone else care to join?
Hi Bonny
I'm in for that
I think I am in the same place as you. It is hard wondering where the person you were with for so long went? Or if they are still there or what is going on really. It is the two year thing I think for me (and seeing that FB picture). AM I in love with my husband or the idea of my husband?
I had a bad experience with Relate too. I can't believe the one big marriage counseling service gets it so wrong. I hardly know any couples that have been there and stayed together, it is almost like it helps them to split!
Starting to date is a bit like a minefield. Do you belong to any clubs or societies? Or can you join a more male orientated one? Or there is internet dating... Or speed dating, that always looks like it would be a laugh.
Snap on the Relate front, having persuaded him to go which believe me wasnt easy, she tried to do the "you know the grass isnt really greener" speech, and when that wasnt actually happening, she actually suggested "trial separation" H was out the door so fast it left me reeling! He has been gone for seven weeks now, out of that he popped back after two, and then for two consecutive weeks and I havent seen him since, all though out of the blue he wants to pop in an stay this weekend, I know most of it is he needs things but Im still surprised its not a flypast! Perhaps we should actually let Relate know about our experiences, Im dam sure I wouldnt recommend them again to anyone.
Hi Bonny,
Just checking that things are going ok for you. We haven't heard from you in a while!
Cas
Ok do I actually love my H? That’s the question I’ve been pondering on and off since my H left. Or do I simply love having a complete family and my H is part of that? The dream that we will grow old together surrounded by grandkids?
After moving out in May, a friend of mine gave me a book, "The Power of Now" by Eckhart Tolles. One chapter dealt with the fact many people are "addicted" to being in a relationship rather than really being in love.
The relationship covers up a lot of things, loneliness, socialization, financial, so many people hang on to unhappy relationships.
I've been trying to figure out for four months if that is me. Do I really love my W and want her back or was I just "addicted" to being married.
I still don't know the answer. When I'm busy and have things to do, I don't think about her much. When I'm alone and trying to kill time, I think about W all the time.
I've been trying to figure out for four months if that is me. Do I really love my W and want her back or was I just "addicted" to being married.
I have thought about this as well. I really enjoyed being married and would tell those getting married in my department the same thing. One person at work once made the comment that I was the only person who said that to him, and that he never heard me put down my wife.
I am not suggesting I was perfect, but I always held her in high regard and was proud of her accomplishments. She was a single mother at 17 and buried her own mother while she was pregnant and her father (a functional alcoholic from what I am told) six years later. I now understand that these childhood issues, combined with the empty-nest syndrome and a hysterectomy, contributed to her MLC.
I still believe I loved my ex-W, but now see there were problems that needed to be more seriously addressed (debt, for one). We all have our moods, but I now see that, especially towards the end, she has a temper and tended to put me down whenever the chance presented itself.
In addition to sometimes asking myself 'do I really want her back?', I also ponder 'why was I attracted to her in the first place'.
Had a bit of a break to ponder all the above. Thanks ClingingtoHope I’ve got the book ordered along with another ‘Learned Optimism’ from Amazon. I seem to be going into overdrive with self-help books.
I’m beginning to turn the situation round really slowly. My H has gone from accusing me of turning everyone against him and trying to keep the kids away from him in the summer to being seemingly more relaxed in my company. I can only attribute this to me finally getting it and dropping the rope entirely, over the past couple of years I’ve had many false starts and back slides. I no longer contact him unless he contacts me first and then I only reply when I have to, mostly this contact is by email although I do send an occasional text reply just to mix it up a bit. Having said that when we have face to face contact I make it as pleasant and as non threatening as possible. I’m relaxed and happy in myself and it usually rubs off on him when he’s around. The times this hasn’t worked has been when he’s being getting stress from OW.
If he wants something from me he still asks one of the kids to ask me, I always reply directly. It’s a personal boundary not to involve the kids and one I will continue to uphold. But I uphold it without making a fuss I just reply directly the way I want to, that’s it, no drama.
He still has OW, but I can handle it now. It’s just a fact, so what. I don’t ask about her or their R I don’t want to know. He never mentions her to me, sometimes I wonder if he mentions me to her?
I’m happy and at peace. I’ve given this my best shot, I’ll continue to DB to the best of my ability and just see how it plays out.
I’m ready if he wants to D, it’s not what I want but I’m ready.
I can relate to what you are saying Bonny. You sound strong and I hope your time away has helped in this way.
Cas
Yet sometimes I still wish we could turn back the clock, as I remain convinced that my H has jumped ship before we were done and given knowledge gained here we would be able to sort out our differences and reconcile. But I can’t control that so have to let it go.
Last week we had a family event and I think I saw a fleeting moment of the H I married and one who seemed to be pondering the new improved me. Then a bit of a pull back which in a way confirms that he's thinking about things. Or maybe I'm just an eternal optimist.
Reconciliation if it comes will be considered then and not before.
 
Yep, we're certainly at about the same point, Bonny. I know this could work if H would just give it a shot. Ah, patience.....
I'm not naturally patient I have to kid myself that I've given up, forget about it and get on with my life. Works most of the time.
H's coming round to do some work round the house, he's knows I'm not going to be there. Not sure why he needs to avoid me, just maybe I remind him that he could have made a mistake. The GAL stuff has changed me immensely, that and getting over my 'empty nest syndrome' years. I've made changes for the better that I know he can see, but refuses to mention. Ah well that brings us back to patience
It's interesting that H chooses to work at a time when you are not there. Think you're right, your presence makes him feel uncomfortable; it questions his decision making. It's a positive that he's helping out, that's for sure.
It would be more of a positive if he actually did something when he got here. Apparently turned up late did one thing and spent the rest of the time talking the the kids. Good to see him spending more time with the kids though.
I've been following your sitch Cas and can see that Gucci has some great advice, perhaps it's time to dusk off the dancing shoes and get out there? How scary is that?
bonnyh,
perhaps it's time to dusk off the dancing shoes and get out there? How scary is that?
Kinda scary prospect for
me, too, honestly.
perhaps it's time to dusk off the dancing shoes and get out there? How scary is that?
Go for it Bonny
I suppose I’m out there already. I meet men at work, at football and concerts, but none of them grab my attention. I did go out for dinner/concerts with male friends at the beginning of our separation; my H didn’t like it at all so I stopped as I didn’t want to push him further away. That may in hindsight have been a mistake, perhaps I should have been bolder and said that it was none of his business that we’d moved on etc.
Perhaps I just have to be realistic, my H checked out of the M along time before he actually left, he’s unlikely to say anything about reconciliation even if he wants to. Fact is even though I’ve followed all the advice on here and my DB coach about GAL, NC, no R talks, being upbeat, moving on etc to draw him back he’s not coming back. I think I’m OK with that.
It’s a bit sad for all of us involved not just me and my H, but our kids and wider family and friends, it’s a selfish move on his part but then he’d be the first to admit that selfish is what he is.
Next problem is what to do at Christmas. My thoughts are to not invite him although he would be welcome if he chose to ask to come. As for Boxing Day it’s normally at my MIL, I understand from the kids that this year I’m not going to be going, not sure whether that’s MILs idea or my H. Separate presents too I think? Anyone got any thoughts. 
Shame H didn't do any work Bonny. I know my place could desperately do with some help but I've finally decided that I have to pay for it. At least now the pool and the garden look pretty good.
Yep, Bonny, Gucci and his mates have had quite a bit to say. The crazy part is that it's at a time when H has been closer than ever.
So it's a matter of facing the fear and doing it anyway!
Bonny, and Gardener shame we're in 3 different countries! Could have had a cocktail or two by the pool before we headed out to party!!
Cocktail by the pool, not in dreary England you wouldn’t. Maybe I should head down under?
I did pay for most of the work to be done, but my D asked him to do one or two things and he agreed to do them. I’m leaving it for them to arrange, he seems reluctant to deal with me directly.
He’s been a bit cagey with the kids of late and has lost their respect even more. He seems to be unraveling a bit. Luckily he’s an adult and has to deal himself.
Oh yeah Bonny. I'm inviting you all for a cocktail or two by my pool. Summer is just around the corner and the weather will match cocktails just perfectly!
H's relationship with the kids is heis to worry about!
Luckily he’s an adult and has to deal himself.
Love this Bonny!
Hi Steve
Hope you find this.
To me an EA in my case is where I was emotionally attached to another man without the sexual contact.
I was at the time suffering form depression or 'empty nest syndrome' if you will. I have struggled with the kids growing up and leaving home. I tried to talk to my husband about it at the time and his response was to tell me to pull myself together or to get to the doctors and sort myself out. It wasn't what I wanted to hear I needed time to grieve my kids growing up. My H tried to be nice to me and talked about how great our life would be when the kids grew up and so on but to me it came over too pushy, I wanted to enjoy the remainder of the time I had with the kids at home. During this time I met up with an old boyfriend who understood how I felt and listened to me, which was what I needed. I let it go too far and thought I was in love with him. It was a bad mistake. My H found out and gave me 24 hours to make my mind up whether to stay or go. I choose my marriage and stayed although I found it hard to love my H in the way I should.
A year after that my H gave up and checked out. We struggled on for another year and then my H left by which time I'd come out of my fog/depression and wanted to work on the M and stay, I truly recommitted to the M. It was too late, my H had made up his mind and left. Basically just bad timing....he wanted me, I was depressed, by the time I was better he'd checked out and left. He does say though that he did not leave because of the EA but because we couldn't sort it out properly afterwards. I believe that even though he says that it's not cos of the EA he's still very angry with me, not sure how I can get past that.
He's now in a relationship with a close friend of mine who we've both known for 20 years.
Any thoughts?
Latest development…. H came round on the weekend to drop off paperwork and accused me of spreading rumours about him and his gf. Which I can honestly say I haven’t, I have explained to a close friend my feelings on the subject but have not told them anything that isn’t true. Managed to remain calm and just stated that I was being open about my feelings and that I given a balanced account (I’d also told about my EA) so as not to make him appear the bad guy. One of the problems my H had with me was that he felt I wasn’t honest about my feelings and kept them to myself so discussing it with friends would be a 180 for me. I’m leaving it there.
It does seem to me that the more I detach, makes improvements for me and get on with my life the more uncomfortable my H becomes with me, this contradicts advise given on these boards.
Spreading rumours....I'd be telling him that his life isn't interesting enough for you to gossip about...you've got far more interesting stuff going on in your own life!
I guess the answer lies with you Bonny. Does detaching make you feel better? If yes, keep it going. At this stage I think it has to really be about us. It's taken me ages to realise this but it really is his loss.
I know anyway the fact that he’s seeing someone I considered a close friend is gossip enough, I’m sure I’m not the only one talking about it. I’ve heard that her STBXH has threatened to kill them both, so if I was him I’d be more worried about that than anything I’ve got to say on the subject.
You’re right it is about me. I’ve been successful detaching in the main, but have had my odd moments of trying to cling on to the M. I’m there now though. I can sort of look at the sitch from the outside which is weird.
The past couple of years have changed me immensely. I got over my depression and redeveloped a PMA, I’m out with mates more than ever and enjoying my life, picked up new hobbies, stopped putting the kids and my H before my needs and become more open and honest with my feelings. It’s an ongoing journey and I’ll never be perfect.
My H is not the man that I married and it’s only if I saw that man again would I be interested in reconciliation. What I’m finding it hard to come to terms with is that the man that I married 20 odd years ago, who I raised my kids with, who I built a house with, who I shared so much with is gone. That’s the real tragedy here, just at the time in our life when we should be discovering each other again and looking forward to growing old together.
BUT there’s still a nagging something right in the back of my mind telling me that this is wrong. Maybe it’s just more time that I need.
And despite all the friends, family, fun activities and so on I’m lonely. I need someone to share my life with, but thinking about it brutally my H wasn’t around much and if I’m honest I’ve been lonely for years even during the later part of my M (one of the reasons that the EA happened I believe). I need someone different, someone who wants to share all their life with me, not someone who slots me in somewhere between work and his own hobbies. He’s still the same in that respect, likes to have life ordered work, hobbies, family life and none of it merged into each other. Even with the gf he won’t get involved with her family, he’s got his own or so he’s told one of my kids.
And to sum up, I agree with you, his loss.
Well Christmas is rearing it’s ugly head already. Not sure what to do. My H asked the kids to go round on the morning and they’ve all said no. Now he’s asked them to go round in the afternoon. That would put us under pressure to get dinner/present opening done by a certain time and I don’t want that. It makes sense to me for him to call round at our house where the kids would be – given that he’s going out somewhere anyway. I don’t think he wants to do that as he feels it would be awkward. When you leave your W and start a R with her best friend some situations are bound to be awkward that’s just part of the territory I think. It doesn’t feel difficult for me or the kids he’s the only one who’s reluctant.
I want to stay out of any R that he has with the kids, but do I suggest that he comes to us for a couple of hours as that’s easier. If I do that would it come over us pursuing or controlling?
He’s already decided to take the kids to his mum’s for Boxing Day so it’s not as if he’s not going to see them. His parents are happy to see me, but he doesn’t feel it appropriate that I go.
Any suggestions?
Hi Bonny,
I have just spent time refreshing myself with your sitch.
I am generally missing in action on the BB these days....
My sitch is status quo and not good enough for me anymore. I am facing a 5th court appearance on the D next Friday 12/4/09. I have plans to proceed. I cannot live with a WAH with the same OW any longer. Yes, we have rekindled our friendship to a point where I fear it will remain as is. Not going forward or backward in reality and it doesn't feel good enough. I am far better off today than I was 4 1/2 years ago in the sitch, so progress was achieved in some fashion. I have accepted it.
I have a hard time knowing what to do on the holidays. We had Thanksgiving this week. I spoke to my H on Weds, the day before, and never mentioned the next days events. I did not consider inviting H to my dinner with son. For me it was not an option. H is in a different place now and appears willing to remain there. I will not entertain his ego further by inviting him. His life needs to be what he is making of it from now on.
Christmas is even harder. To answer your dilemma about what to do....IMO, let your GROWN kids decide when they want to get together with their Dad. You may be disappointed in the decision, and then maybe not. I would not suggest/invite him to come to your holiday. If the kids invite him to your home or if he comes to you and expresses interest in joining the 5 of you then graciously welcome him either way.
IMO, he has to be left alone to face his own consequences of his choice. He needs to accept that his choice has left the family with the unpleasant task of having to choose between you and him. He has already apparently shut you out of Boxing Day at his folks. It is Ok to not include him in your Christmas.
If your kids have already chosen you for Christmas morning do not feel pressured to end your festivities by a certain hour just to appease H. It ends when it does and that is that. H will have to settle for whatever time is left if he wants to have a part of the day with them. Consequences!!!
It may be hard on the kids to make the decision, I have a feeling they will make the right choice for everyone. If they are like mine, they have a great deal of maturity and a smart approach attitude about it all. I bet they will surprise you.
I think I jumped around here a bit. I am sorry if I did.
My H will not be invited for our Christmas. My H will have to make time for my son on his own. My son is 13 and I am the active parent and have sole custody, Christmas will be my way with son. H will have to accept my decisions about it. In H's family the only one who bothers with son is my FIL. Son will spend the two days prior with his grandfather so no further need for more contact. I don't currently care if H sees him at all. Consequences!!!!
I think Bonny, we come to a place where our H's thoughts and feelings and wants are not so front and center in our minds. We eventually get hardened to their actions to the point that we are fine without them and along with it we are not so courteous of them. It's bound to happen sooner or later given their behaviors towards us.
My thoughts are with you even though I don't post much anymore.
Take care, my friend....
(((((Hugs)))))
Sanderika
Well not much more to report. Still not sure what’s happening xmas day. I’ve told the kids that their father is welcome to call round if he wants as that makes sense, there’s 4 of them and 1 of him for a start, but that I’m not interfering between him and them. The kids will decide although at the moment he’s adamant that he won’t call in. Maybe it’s got something to do with OW who knows. I sense that she’s putting him under some sort of pressure, she wants more than he’s prepared to give.
I finally don’t care whether he comes round or not, it’s the kids shout. Got my head round it now, if they end up going there it’s not the end of the world and an hour or two on my own may actually be welcome.
Good luck to you Sanderika in what will be a tough week ahead.
Hi Bonny, Glad you've sorted the Christmas stuff in your head. Mu H emailed last week to say, "Have you decided what you're doing for Christmas yet." I replied to say we were having lunch and he replied thank you but I haven't heard yet how he will meet up with the kids. I'm figuring that it's his problem and like you maybe a couple of hours without them could be quite acceptable!
Well it’s been a while since I updated, there’s not too much to report. Christmas passed off OK, kids spent the day with me and then went to their father’s for a couple of hours in the evening. It made me sad that they went and have been put in the position of deciding what to do, where to go and when but that’s the sitch we’re in. New Year, kids went their own ways, I went to visit an old friend and catch up with others and then called in at MILs. They made me welcome which was lovely.
Didn’t send a card or present to my H although he did send a card to me. Was apparently upset that I didn’t send him one. My reason for not doing so is that although we are friendly we are not friends so it no longer seems appropriate.
Next thing is my FILs upcoming birthday. It’s a big one and the family have organized a surprise party to which I’ve been excluded. OW has been invited but is not going. I hate this bit, I love my FIL and believe him to be fond of me, I’ve known him for 25+ years and it does seem unfair that I’m not involved in the celebrations. I also think that this would be a good opportunity for me and my H to demonstrate to the family that although we’ve separated we can still function on a civil basis. What do others think? I’m considering a direct approach and asking if I can go along too. On the other hand it could be seen as me being controlling and less detached than I portray.
Seem to have backslid a bit on the detachment, it may be just the emotion of Christmas etc and when I’m back at work proper I’ll get a better grip on things.
Why, even after all this time, do I sometimes what to scream, just come home and sort this out?
OK time to stop whining and get back on the horse.