One last thread me thinks.
Six months divorced but I am not "done".
Last thread No recap. Older than dirt (52), married forever, two wonderful kids S10 and D7, and still in love with Ex.
Can't help it.
I feel great and I can just spit in the devil's eye.
How do I feel?
Let me quote Pierce Bronsnan. Remember, he was James Bond before this new guy:
On turning 55, too old to play Bond:
"That was a shock yes. I never thought of myself as being too old. It was startling to hear such things about oneself, especially when you thought you were going down that particular avenue, and then the door gets slammed in you face".
Sounds like our "bomb", does it not?
So what did he do??
Shaken and stirred but not bitter, Bronson thinks it was a blessing:
"It turned out very lucky. Within the space of the punch and the pain of being passed over or rejected or the bottom of your world falling out, within the same breath came this liberation of 'I am free. I can do anything I want'. It is up to me to have the guts to make the next stage of my life as interesting and as exciting and unexpected as possible."
"You struggle with money. You struggle with love. You struggle without love. But it's how you mannage. You have to keep laughing, you have to be fun to be with, and you have to live with style - not fancy-schmancy, but in a way which is present and meaningful and has some beauty to it."
"You got to be a fighting rooster. You've got to get out there and preen those feathers and look like you know what you're doing and hope you know what you are doing and have a good time."
Words to live by.
So are these:
Strength and Honor.
I understand there is a tradition in this forum. You might think I owe you $200 but you owe me a drink and I'll take something tall and fruity hand delivered please.
BTW, tall and fruity would be the type of drink not the delivery person.
You sound good Jeff, how's the view from there?
Hi Jeff,
Your positive outlook is heartening. Gives me some semblance of hope at least. I tend to steel myself up to your thinking only to fall on my head at some point. It is an up and down cycle which is probably all too familiar on this board. My D became final on Monday. My anniversary is on the 17th. I am newly divorced or newly single or whatever gentle euphemism you want to put on it. My W is gone. A man who has lost everything is a man with options I guess. I hope you keep posting positive here. It helps.
Glad to see you feeling better, Jeff. Keep it up!
Hi Jeff,
Your positive outlook is heartening. Gives me some semblance of hope at least. I tend to steel myself up to your thinking only to fall on my head at some point. It is an up and down cycle which is probably all too familiar on this board. My D became final on Monday. My anniversary is on the 17th. I am newly divorced or newly single or whatever gentle euphemism you want to put on it. My W is gone. A man who has lost everything is a man with options I guess. I hope you keep posting positive here. It helps.
one_light,
I understand the pain you are feeling all too well..... I thought I loved my exW more than words could express.... I actually loved the woman I thought she was more than words could express....
I, too thought I lost it all.... I did NOT...
I lost a woman who placed NO value on our R of 15 years....
I lost a woman who placed NO value on our M of 12 years....
I lost a woman who placed NO value on me helping her get her BS...
I lost a woman who chose not to share her feelings with me...
I lost a woman who chose not to share she was unhappy...
I lost a woman who refused to put any work into our M...
I lost a woman who refused to go to MC...
I lost a woman who cheated on me....
I lost a woman who violated her M vows....
I lost a woman who lied about me to justify her actions....
I lost a woman who had no character.....
I lost a woman who had no clue as to what M was about...
I LOST NOTHING OF VALUE.........
I gained myself.... AND later a wonderful new wife! You will find the light at the end of the tunnel... It is NOT an oncoming train!
It will get better...
Take Care,
NMD
Hey Rob,
Thanks for stopping by. I am still following you in piecing but have little to add since my daughter is not yet a teen!!
Luck. Glad W has not dropped any more mini-bombs.
One_Light,
So sorry you are here.
Newly divorced sucks. Ask me how I know.
The good news is that for the first months it is uplifting as in 'this is finally over'.
But be prepared b/c after that I fell big time.
Took four months but I am doing better now. Maybe it is the vacation I had with my kids or maybe it is just doing what Dodo says.
What a wonderful post. Just about everything Dodo listed applies to my Ex except for the cheating part (I think).
I still cannot make that list - even 2.5 years into this. But once I do and accept it I will move forward again.
And once I have the list?
I will burn it and move on. Hopefully I will find a new love as Dodo has. I am not ready to date but those women are not going anywhere.
So chin up one_light.
My closing is Strength and Honor. From a movie.
May you have the strength to have the courage to strike out into the unknown fog of fear; and honor, that you will demonstrate integrity and be assertive in your interactions with others to get the well-being you deserve in the fog of uncertainity.
Strength and Honor.
Jeff,
When my D was final, God just placed a burning desire in my heart to find my new W..... I knew she was out there.... I knew she had been through pain like I had felt......... I knew she was just waiting for me to find her to start our new life together........
The funny thing was I came home from church one Sunday in July and smelled perfume in my house.... No explaination.... It was just there.... It smelled exactly like my new W's favorite perfume.... I saw that as a sign.....
Take Care,
NMD
You all are more help than you know. Thanks for giving a damn.
Hopefully I will find a new love as Dodo has. I am not ready to date but those women are not going anywhere.
Jeff223,
Do not worry..... God has a woman out there waiting for you....... You will find her.... It just may take some time....
Take Care,
NMD
Hey Jeff, you do mean one last thread and then you will come hang out with your buddies in Surviving right?
Hang in there buddy......
Ian
Jeff,
I also missed the most important ones:
I lost a woman who violated her family's "Christian" beliefs.......
I lost a woman who violated her "Christian" beliefs.......
NMD
Cool perfume story Dodo. Jeff, I feel you about not being ready. I simply can’t imagine any woman but my ex. I’ve got buddies out there who wax poetic about life in the singles fast lane. I find such talk repulsive. I keep telling myself that now is the time I have to learn to love myself, to be alone and be OK with it. Become a whole person on my own and not looking for some other half to make me whole. (of course my former M may have been a bit more co-dependent than yalls)
Cool perfume story Dodo. Jeff, I feel you about not being ready. I simply can’t imagine any woman but my ex. I’ve got buddies out there who wax poetic about life in the singles fast lane. I find such talk repulsive. I keep telling myself that now is the time I have to learn to love myself, to be alone and be OK with it. Become a whole person on my own and not looking for some other half to make me whole. (of course my former M may have been a bit more co-dependent than yalls)
one_light,
I never saw the value in "life in the singles fast lane"...... It seems like a bunch of screwed up people attempting to fill their emptiness with sex.....
It reminds me of a friend of mine in college.....
He lived down the hall from me.....
His exGF lived in the dorm across the street from us...
He was out humping anything female.....
He knew that got back to his exGF......
He kept telling me how much he loved his exGF.....
He really just want a R with his exGF.....
He went about it all wrong.....
In the end, do you want your next wife to be one in a line of women you had sex with? Do you want a woman who has had sex with a bunch of men and you are just another guy she had sex with? I just find that nasty....
NMD
one_light,
Another question about "life in the singles fast lane"...... If it is so GREAT, why is it that soooooooo many of these people living this lifestyle will eventually admit they would really rather find that "someone special" than hump around?
Take Care,
NMD
So true. I admit I went though that to a point in my 20s. Then I turned around. I figured out what is really important. I settled down, got married, tried to start a family. It turned out to be all for not. This does not discourage me, however, from the pursuit of that wife and family. I shall not return to the sad dividends paid by life in the soft flesh of the readily available.
I don't think you are to old to play Bond!
Hope all is wonderful sweets!
Hello!!! knock knock
Does Jeff still live here?
What's up?
Not much to update. I felt good earlier in the year after I got back into my house and vacationed with the kids but since then things have spiraled down. I have hit the bottom a few times; all this bouncing on the bottom hurts.
A lot of pressure at work at the moment. A lot of pressure with a house that is falling down around me. A lot of pressure for not having a social life. A lot of pressure with my 91-year old mother. A lot of pressure trying to be a dad in a broken family. A lot of pressure with xW acting so distant and so indifferent all of the time.
A lot of pressure. I am just so tired and I am not motivated to do anything.
So I sit around, read some, and dream of a better time. Drinking a lot more than I should but it helps make time pass faster.
Yesterday was really bad - D7 was up in the middle of the night with a nightmare. She told me she was dreaming about "when you and mommy broke up and how mommy told me she did not want me any more".
How could that be? The kids are suppose to be happy are they not? The divorce was a good thing for us, was it not?
It was according to xW.
This sucks. My life sucks. My job sucks. My house sucks. My family is gone. I don't feel attractive - just old and spent.
Enough of this pity party. Things will get better but I need to visit the bottom yet again.
Time to man-up.
Tight Hugs, and Huge prayers!
Hope you have a great weekend! Kiss those babies!
Jeff - Unfortunately I have nothing of much to offer you apart from my very best wishes and thoughts with hope of a better, brighter time as soon as you start coming up from that bottom.
Best wishes - GFI
A lot of pressure. I am just so tired and I am not motivated to do anything.
So I sit around, read some, and dream of a better time. Drinking a lot more than I should but it helps make time pass faster.
Yeah, but we both know that it also keeps us depressed. We have to stay away from it or it'll make too much time pass too quickly.
Jeff,
I think you're one of the good guys in the world. So forgive me if this post comes off as self-righteous or cliche - neither are intended.
You've got a wound Jeff. And when you've got a wound, you have to clean the wound, dress it, care for it, protect against infection, have it checked from time to time.
But you've got to do something about it.
I've done my share of drinking Jeff. I'm certainly not anti-alcohol. But I know this about it - it's not a healing agent. It's nothing more than anesthetic. Numbs the pain, makes it not feel so bad for awhile. It doesn't do a blessed thing to heal the wound.
I'm not in any way telling you it's time to be done with the pain. It's YOUR pain, and it will fade in YOUR time. We all have our own unique tolerances for pain.
I'm just saying it's time to start doing some healing Jeff.
Yeah, it sucks, all of it.
So maybe it's time to find something in your life that doesn't suck. Something that doesn't suck AND allows some healing to take place would be perfect.
There is too much good in you to allow it to sit in the easy chair each night in an anesthetized state.
We don't need to be on the bottom to begin working our way back up. Start where you are. Work your way up from there.
Sorry if this is coming across too much like "pull yourself up by the bootstraps." Again, not my intention.
I care about you. And I hate seeing you still down and out.
Blessings,
Bill
Time for an update me thinks.
First off, thanks all for reading. Means a lot.
And yes frank - time is priceless.
Lissie - I hope all is well. I am guilty of not keeping up with you, but you are so popular ....
GFI - how are you?
No Bill, you will never come off as "self-righteous or cliche".
I post about drinking to remind myself that it is a problem that can consume me if I let it. No excuses - right now it fills a need but everything has a price and the price booze asks of me is not what I am willing to pay in the long haul. And I value those who have 'been there, done that, bad mojo...'
I am still stuck in a bit of depression but I am feeling better.
I just got back from vacationing with the kids - fall school break. We had a great time. Went to usual places and some new ones and we had a blast. D7 had her first pony ride - priceless.
But we also ran into several families the kids knew from school. We only went two hours from where we live, so with the price of gas others planned like we did. It was tough for me to do the introductions when I met them - they were whole families and we were not. I cannot help but think what they were thinking - where was 'mommy'?
It sucks. I would give up anything to be on vacation as a whole family. Table after table at the hotel dining spot had the 'whole familes' interacting and planning their day.
Not me.
No. I don't miss HER. I miss the concept of family, not her.
Maybe not so much. But in some ways I do miss her.
I know this is not true b/c of the people I know and respect here - but I cannot shake the thought that the 'L' in LBS means *Loser*.
But I am trying to be upbeat. Did a few things on my house so I am celebrating some progress. But overall I am still stuck.
This too shall pass.
I am trying to be better at work. Had a few low points but I need the job. Since the beginning of the year my retirement savings were cut by 50% due to my divorce and now they are down another 20% due to the stock market. Not much left.
But I need not worry - the newspaper had an interview with some 20-something who makes seven-figures explain to me that in "15 to 20 years" I will be okay. That SOB who makes his salary if he makes me money or loses it ....
I don't have 20-years.
But I will survive.
All for now. I see light at the end of the tunnel and it is not a train.
But so much work. But without work, and effort, and crafting a new future, what would we be?
Strength and Honor.
I came to check in with you before I leave since you were kind enough to post on my thread...and because, well, we have history.
Sweetie, post-divorce is no different from post-bomb. It still takes DBing. DBing, in the end, is not really about marriage, it's about you.
What we focus on is what we see. Therefore, focusing on all the crap in the world and your sitch will bring you down. But what if you focused on the good? What if you spent 10-minutes every day either writing or actively thinking about what was good that day? Your D's first ride, making it out of bed, some laughs you had with your kids...it seems too simple, but appreciation and gratitude are incredibly powerful tools.
You are a great man, but your life will not change until you decide it's time for it to change. In the end, it is really as simple as a choice, and you are the only person who is able to make that particular choice.
EDITED - personal contact information is NOT ALLOWED. You must comply with the DivorceBusting.com Board Rules if you would like to continue the privilege of posting here..
I hope you will be well...this is the life you have, not a dress rehearsal. What kind of life will you choose? What brings you closer to what you want, and what takes you from that path?
SD
Thanks SD. Wise words as usual. I will miss your input but I realize that everyone must move forward at their own pace.
You are one of three that I communicated with over the past two-plus years that made it. I thought of all the others and I stopped count at 50 or so folks I corresponded with regularly. There were more. So, the odds are about 5% once you land here.
The others did not do as well. Most are divorced; many left the site. Some are still in the D process with little hope of turning things around. Some are about to enter that process. The rest are in limbo or such and for those I pray the hardest since life is too short to be stuck.
That is why I disagree with the "standing" crowd. If you catch it soon enough as the three I refer to did, there is hope. Even Michelle's books imply things should change around sooner than later. But after a year or so - or "one month for each year of the relationship" - the 5% odds catch up with you.
Me? I am doing better than last month. Ups and downs but not moving forward as well as I would like. Like I said it sucks being stuck.
A great thing SDFound said on her thread is that she could not keep reliving 2006 over and over again. That is what I have been doing and it has to stop.
I am slowly getting back to liking me for who I am. Since my D was final I have been very hard on myself. That also has to stop. Sure, there are many things I don't like about me but they should not be the sum total of who I am.
I am a nice guy really. And I have many good qualities. They define who I am.
My relationship with my kids has never been better. While that is a big positive - D means more one-on-one time by definition - D still sucks. Just last night D7 said she was "homesick" and wanted to go to her mother. That was a kick in the gut.
Well, on to better things and rebuilding my life. I refer back to the first post on this thread and I need to make that happen. Got to get out of the rut of feeling sorry for me.
Will be posting much less - this BB was a lifesaver but now it is pulling me down. I no longer have the strength to support others b/c I have to find the strength to support me. But I will lurk around on those that are still to complete their journey here.
Strength and Honor.
I am slowly getting back to liking me for who I am.
This is key to your future. You have been bombed so much into thinking you aren't quality enough for your xw, it is such a blow that it does take a loonnggg time to recover from the damage the WAS causes us.
That is why it is so important to get out and GAL and find people that DO recognize your qualities. Get into groups that appreciate you. Rebuild.
We'll always butt heads on 'standing'. IMO it depends a lot on the WAS and if you have even have a chance to 'stand' or if they take that option away from you when they head full speed to file D.
A major difference for us is I had the option and am doing my work to like myself while I am still M, while you are doing your work post D. The important point is that we both get there again.
(((Jeff)))
Jeff...this thread slipped by me. I could kick myslef for it. You are only a year or so out of this my friend. Healing takes longer than a year for many people. There is no way to speed up the process.
You, my friend, are far better at DB'ing and staying reality based than I, but, even I can tell you that you must stop the self-blame and victimization.
DonH....took quite some time before he got back into the cockpit and took off again. It's not easy but something we must do as men. Jeff...you know the classic line...the journey of a lifetime starts with the first footstep. Take that step...put yourself out there. Remember N.U.T.S.? Men take risks.
Risk something....try something new and, most of call, just pick up the bottles if they are in the house and THROW THEM OUT. Medically, alcohol is a DEPRESSANT.
Jeff...you ARE a good man. Heal. There is no rush, but, start the wound healing. Get out there.
FIB
Latest, just to journal:
Recently my daughter D7 is getting very upset when it is my weekend and her mom calls. She either does not want to talk to mom or if she does she cries on the phone and after. She misses her mom. D7 gets upset when she has to leave me too, not crying but sad. Of course, mom has a right to call so I would not request she not, but I try to limit my calls when they are with Ex. So I thought I should let Ex know. I emailed:
Me: Just to let you know without suggesting anything, when you call on the weekends it really upsets D7, and S11 to a lesser degree. I just thought you should know.
Her response:
Ex: Jeff, about D7, she cries every Wednesday night and Thursday morning that rolls around because she knows she has to leave me. I am not trying to hurt you. I thought you should know.
I guess I should feel very guilty here. Notice the guilt trip - "I am not trying to hurt you" with the big BUT unsaid: but you are making your daughter unhappy b/c she has to leave mom. She would rather be with mom than with you. This is all your fault Jeff.
Mom wants me to understand that D7 is REALLY upset when she is torn from her mom by my doing ("she knows she has to leave me"). She loves mom so much and mom is #1 in her life. Dad is not needed; dad is causing the pain.
Maybe I am reading too much into this, but I think not. It fits the pattern I have lived with for the past 2-1/2 years.
I just had an interesting exchange on frank_D's thread where I was reminded of compassion, grace, and forgiveness.
It is very hard to feel those things when my 7-year old daughter is suffering and her mom fails to take even partial responsiblity for it - in fact she implies the opposite like I am the low life that caused all this suffering and continues to do so.
It is very hard.
This sucks. My life sucks.
Yea, I know, compassion and forgiveness.
Hi there Jeff - could you be seeing something more than is there? Essentially, from what you have reported, an alternative view is that you are saying the same thing to each other...how about using this - you could see it as an honest exchange between 2 people - which is good - could you 180 it by perhaps emailing to say:
"Well, it sounds as if D7 gets upset when she leaves you and when she leaves me - or an event like a switch from one of us to the other reminds her about the situation. Perhaps we could have a chat to think how we might deal with this situation so we can help her to deal with it?"
Jeff - even if your interpretation is actually correct - you could put a different spin on it to model a more productive/collaborative approach...
anyway - just an idea...
KBO - GFI
Jeff....a week or so, my D5 told my W "I hate you" after I left her room to put my son to sleep. My W charged out at her screaming at her and scaring the daylights out of her.
When my D5 says that to me, I look at her and say, softly, "that makes daddy very sad". Usually, 2-5 minutes later, my D returns telling me she loves me.
I think that....when you asked your W not to call, it hurt her and she returned the favor. I understand how you feel. On Sundays, I leave my W alone to enjoy the kids. On Saturdays, my W has to batter me with calls and texts. I think....it is simply a control issue...for her.
It is difficult when the parents (not implying you)..use the kids as pawns. I try and tell myself that no matter how much my W hates me or hurts me, the kids only see her as their mom and they love her.
I know the pain you feel. My W frequently corrals the kids....'hogs' them....at points now when I do something with the kids, they turn to her to ask 'permission' to go with me. It sucks. I try to keep going and be a good dad and hope that time will prove that out to them.
Pull yourself up. I know the feeling. Get out. Check meetup.com or anything.
Supporting you as always. Frank
I knew a divorced mom who smothered the kids, and just before they had to 'go see dad' she would program them to be afraid of being away from HER.
Good advive GFI. If I were in a better position emotionally that would be a plan to consider. But little or no contact with Ex is my only comfort zone right now. I fear if I meet with her I would lose it, especially where the kids are concerned.
I really wanted to email her back but I am happy to say I did not. I wanted to ask her how her comments hurt me. Is she implying that D7 loves mom and misses her more than dad? If that is the case it shows you how spaced out she is. Or is she just trying to make me the cause of D7 crying? That is hard to get straight in my mind: lets see, she wanted the D, she ignored me when I said it would impact the kids, she bailed rather than work on the M or go to MC with me. She pressed and got the D and now it is somehow all my fault the kids are affected????
In her mind the D was the answer - everyone should be so happy now. Right?
Thanks too FIB. I warned you to expect the kids being drawn to the middle in your situation. However, in mine, after 2-1/2 years I expected to turn a corner; instead it is worse.
knew a divorced mom who smothered the kids, and just before they had to 'go see dad' she would program them to be afraid of being away from HER.
Frank hit it on the head. That is what is happening. However, I don't think Ex has a clue she is doing that. She smothers the kids b/c that is her only emotional support left, except for a few female friends.
I may not have been her idea of a good H but I was there for her many times.
So was her dad. But her dad quickly remarried after her mom passed on and that was a blow for sure. She has only been back home to visit once that I know of since the remarriage. Before the remarriage she went home almost every weekend the kids were with me.
Kids are not designed to provide adult support to adults. I wish Ex would understand that. In a way I feel sorry for Ex, but I am more concerned that this does not impact the kids long term.
But all I can do is to be a good dad and not use my kids as my emotional crutch as well.
..and that is all we can do Jeff. As you said above:
- we can't make the kids feel that we are crushed when they leave us
- they are not our support systems nor should we look to them for support
- we have no control over what our S's do when the kids are not with us and the court/legal system is not going to enforce rules on that new entity parental alienation
Everyone tells me that kids are brighter than we give them credit for. I pray that is true. I can see what is happening to you occurring in my own sitch. I often feel overwhelmed by it all, but, I can't let that happen NOR CAN YOU. They need the balance. They need a solid steady father. Kids, like our WAW's, can sense this stuff. Keep your chin up.
I'm going to order this:
Divorce PoisonFIB
Thanks FIB.
Just spent the best few days in a long time. I quickly shook off Ex's email about the kids thanks to my venting here. Also, several positive things happened, including being reminded of grace and forgiveness. Combine that with this is MAX COLOR for fall here...
Things are good.
We had an early freeze and rather cool weather - you would not believe the red, orange, gold, yellow palette
I have the kids this weekend and that is also good. I picked them up from Ex Thursday. D7 was crying again but quickly stopped. Ex did not show her tail - crying too most likely.
Her problem, not mine. Being a super mom has its price.
I also read a great article in the paper by family psychologist John Rosemond that describes my situation to a 'T'.
A woman wrote asking his opinion of going back to work after quiting to have kids. Her "uninvolved father" husband thinks it a good idea and "wants her to be happy" since she "resented" not having a job. But she was conflicted b/c she was giving "150%" to her kids.
Rosemond did not mince words. I wish he were speaking to my Ex before my insanity happened. He wrote:
"I don't think a self-sacrificing mom insures anything except perhaps a child who is excessively dependent upon mom.
"As for your H, the "uninvolved father" who wants what is best for his W, perhaps you are so involved with your children that he has difficulty feeling like he can get involved without your micromanagement. Any woman who says she is giving more that 1/3 of herself to her kids is, by definition, a 3M mom: a magnificent maternal micromanager. Obviously you more than qualify."
Instead of being 150% involved, Rosemond goes on to say to her "A HUSBAND AND WIFE SHOULD BE INVOLVED WITH ONE ANOTHER. And yes, I'm yelling, b/c all-too-many of today's parents need to be strapped to chairs and made to listen to a tape loop of the previous sentence blaring over a loudspeaker until they get it.
"There is nothing that secures a child's sense of well-being and releases his capacity for self-sufficiency more reliably than knowing his parents are in relationshiop with one another. Perhaps, and I say this gently, you have so immersed yourself in the role of mom that you have neglected your marriage."
Standing ovation!! That is my situation in a nutshell. I have been blaming me 100% but these words, which I have known since this started, ring true and remind me that I was not the total blame here.
In fact, there was most likely nothing I could have done b/c she did not hear these words and if she did she would have dismissed them.
She cannot accept the blame for anything. She would deny the super mom label. That is why they never reconsider. That is why the anger. That is why all the blame falls my way in her eyes.
Too bad. Maybe I could not have done anything regardless and that is a comfort (reminds me of FIB's pdf book), but I still have much work to do on me. I must become stronger and roll model for my kids so they don't become dependent on mom, or me, or anyone else for that matter.
Anyway, I feel better today. Hope it lasts.
No, it is up to me to make it so.
Strength and Honor.
Hi, Jeff! Glad you are feeling better! Enjoy your time w/ the kids!
deb
She cannot accept the blame for anything.
Another key line. My MIL once told me that "as a child, XXX could never accept that she was wrong." She said that to me in her supportive days when I was trying to figure this whole thing out and save my M.
IMO, S's...who can never accept their responsibility for the demise of a marriage will almost NEVER be able to come back once they leave. THAT...Jeff..is what we talked about in our VERY FIRST conversation in fall 2006. Although that is not THE answer, it is one of many of the attributes of some of the WAW's here.
Enjoy your children. I have had continuous playdate at my house..video games, screaming....as my STBXW slathered on the perfume and left to go out to the movies.
Be 'glad' that you are where you are now...and not entombed with your STBXW.
Strength and honor.
FIB
PS Jeff.....dedicated to you...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TjyR_3mUsMYou'll make it Jeff.
Strength and honor.
FIB
Good to chat again Jeff. You'll be fine. Springtime = renewal. Hunker down for the holidays and set springtime as rebirth. Thanks for your support.
FIB
Hey Jeff,
Hows things, I been on this forum for a while, just about given up on ex2be ever coming round. It really is her loss. Things are going well with me, turned 50 the other day and have never felt better in my own skin, ever, than I have this last 12 months. Quite amazing considering how I was feeling three years ago. I will try to update my thread in the next day or so. Until then look after yourself my friend. Remember we are only responsible for our own actions, that is all that really matters.
Paul.
Bomb 3 years ago today. How time flys.
TNP....wtg. I am getting to where you are. You sound good. Keep up the good work. FIB
Jeff - thanks for your post on my stich... I read yours here... So sorry that this is so hard on you years later. I'm sure it will continue to be for me as well.
Our WAW's just do not seem to understand the break-up of the family and the future and the dreams we had.
Harder still when we have to pass a child between homes and have regular conversations with our ex.
Seems her death would have been easier to bear - no constant reminders - and financially easier too.
I feel your pain... but we have no choice but to move ahead with our lives.
Hey Paul. I will be looking for that update. You sound good - better than I considering we are both 3-yrs post bomb. My birthday is Monday. I got bombed when I turned 50 so I hope your 50 is better than mine was.
Thanks for stopping by SDad. Yes, all we can do is do the best we can given the hand we were dealt.
Nothing much to report. Feel better but still stuck. Kind of in a rut - work, eat, read, sleep (sleeping a lot). Also a bit down since the holidays are upon us. I will not see my kids this Thanksgiving. That sucks. I do get them for Christmas (20 Dec through 25 Dec at 6:00 pm) but it still hurts that they do not have a whole family to share Christmas morning with. This is not the first year but it still hurts.
In fact, the Thanksgiving - Christmas period was always a favorite - now I dread it and feel the failure, my failure.
I will do the best I can and shoot for after Christmas to get my life in order. I have to get the house fixed and I have to get off my a$$ and do those GAL things I want to do. Like FIB says, springtime is rebirth - but I plan to start Dec 26th.
Little interaction with former W and that is okay with me. She did call Sunday to tell me that D7's ears were infected (she recently got them pierced) and that an earring backer had skin around it. She started to cry and said she should have checked D7 closer. I told her it was not her fault and that D7 would be fine once she goes to the doctor. But former W freaked out - I listened and calmed her down.
I guess she had no one else to call.
After they returned from the Doc she was happy at first (D7 was fine) but then got cold again - "I called just b/c I thought you should know".
The next day she emailed me on a different topic but added a "thank you for being understanding yesterday".
My son also told me that former W and the kids took my mom out to dinner Monday (it was my mom's birthday last week - # 91). Interesting that former W would do that. Can't figure; I thought she cut that string too.
Overall, I wish she would just leave things alone.
I do get to see my kids on my Birthday. S11 is spending the night but D7 wants to go home to mom after cake. D7 is not handling this at all well. Last night she was talking about the "time you and mom split". It sucks.
All for now.
...and again....we have no choice Jeff. To repeat what you tell me all the time..this was her choice.
This takes time Jeff. I had a terrible inner emotional backslide this week...thinking of the ways I 'blew' my marriage. I've gone back to reading Cunningham's stuff and, perhaps, this has opened up old wounds. I think constantly of all the things I could have done to keep our M fresh. Then....I tell myself...that...she could have helped save this too.
Stay strong, my friend. You circled a day on the calender. Another phrase that you use with me: come up with a plan...to dig out.
FIB
Bomb at 50 plus 3 = 53 on Monday! Happy Birthday!
an earring backer had skin around it. She started to cry and said she should have checked D7 closer. I told her it was not her fault
You're too gracious. Sure it was her fault!
I will do the best I can and shoot for after Christmas to get my life in order.
Why wait to join the procrastinators club next week?
Do at least ONE thing different now to change your rut. You might like it.
What are you cooking for Thanksgiving? got any good potato recipes?
Jeff...have a very Happy Thanksgiving. I am grateful to have you as a friend. You DO have a lot to be thankful for. FIB
Checkin' in Jeff..how are you? FIB
Yeah, what FIB said!
Naughty or nice?
Yesterday was the longest night of the year. It felt like it. The Romans used to celebrate (in raunchy fassion) the return of the sun god this time of year to prepare themselves for the winter ahead. The Catholic church established a different celebration for this time of year.
In any event, I feel the darkness of the nights and the short days. Christmas is not a happy one this year for many reasons: a broken family, a freefall economy, my job being at risk, and my emotional state at a real low.
So, I look to the future. I think I feel the bottom, but things can get a lot blacker.
My kids and I watched a holiday movie last night. After the movie we put on one of the kids channels on TV. We caugth the end of a show - the parents were explaining to their kids that while the kids hoped that mom and dad would get back together, they were not ... how it was all for the best ... how they were still a "family" ... you can fill in the rest. At one point one of these so-called adults said that when parents are separated the kids get twice the gifts
It made me sick to my stomach. That is the message we are giving our kids - that divorce is the right way to go, no one gets hurt, twice the gifts, a family is not two people who love and support each other and raise kids with real values - it is two separate *adults* doing what is "best" only for themselves.
-----
My shopping is done and I do get the kids through Christmas evening. We will have fun.
Merry Christmas all. And a wish for a wonderful year to all.
Strength and Honor.
Hello Jeff,
I am saddened to read your story. However, your stregnth of conviction is VERY encouraging and reminds me that I am not alone in my mission to turn 'things' around.
My XW, when we first split, would listen to her group of M cancer 'friends' who would support her in helf destructive decisions and pat her on the head for another 'good job.' Mind you, I did make my mistake, but XW's only real view of me was XW's one-sided account of anything and everything that happened between us.
But I digess, XW began our separation by telling me that divorce was not THAT big a deal to the children involved. I was pissed when I heard that line of BS, as I know it came from one of her M cancer friends and was just another pat on the head to XW to assure her that her decision to NOT work to reconcile was the best decision.
I told XW, I don't know which one of your idiot friends told you this line of BS, but EVERYTHING that I have read about the impact of D on children is that a D is a defining time in their lives that they will carry forward into adulthood. I assured XW that it was THAT BIG A DEAL for our children AND for her and I. The conversation didn't escalate into a fight. She figured that I was coming from a place of wanting to work on reconciling our M, and she was right. Sadly, she has continued to run from reality and keep herself buffered from stopping, thinking, and feeling anything with a string of BFs and circling her wagon train of 'friends' around her to keep ALL of the reality 'danger' out.
At this point, we are coming up on 3 years since we split, and 1.5 years of being D. I am very sad about the whole thing, and yet I still hold out hope that my wish and efforts to prepare the terrain for our eventual reconcile is in keeping with my belief that I am in line with bending my will to my God's will, and NOT the other way around.
I agree with you, my friend, that much of society has cheapened M, similar to the television portrayal you watched. M used to be about us. People used to fight for their M first. Now, many people fight for themselves first, and for the survival of their M, not at all. The media plays into this selfish siphoning of family/marital values and sells it as entertainment. My situation saddens me, but the deterioration of the moral fiber of society saddens me even more.
I know that I contributed to the demise of my M over time. However, one of the great things about being human is our ability to reflect on the 'wrongs' in our past behavior and conscious decisions to change and conscious efforts to make those decisions to change our reality.
Lastly, I know I cannot change XW; not her feelings, not her decisions to grow, not her wish to reconcile. Instead, I focus on changing me and I've come a long way to date. That's my gift to me and my children. I'm not perfect, but as Vince Lombardi once said, "Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence."
I strive for perfection, knowing that excellence IS attainable.
Strength and honor, my friend.
Tom
Christmas is not a happy one this year for many reasons: a broken family, a freefall economy, my job being at risk, and my emotional state at a real low.
My dear Jeff, I've been asking this for years now. What are you doing to poke out of your shell? what are you doing to get out of the house and talk to people? What are you doing that will put a smile on your face?
still hopeful, is your signature line accurate? I haven't followed your sitch but was trying to do the math. Affair in 2005 and you have a 3 year old?
Did either of you guys happen to catch the story on my thread about the couple celebrating their anniversary but they didn't know which year to call it? They had to D and blow $100,000 to realize they wanted to be together. The W broke down and cried and called her xh after she saw him out with another woman on a date. They have been remarried for a year now.
While a small group of us were listening to their story we had bits of all kinds of convo, including that it was so easy for them to throw their hands up and say "I am done" instead of staying to work it out. They had to be apart before they could figure out how to be together.
What are you guys doing to be attractive to your xw's, or any woman, or any person you want to be friends with?
Wonderful WCW. Although controversial to some, many should read Cunningham's recent newsletter on staying attractive EVEN THRU DIVORCE. He wrote a powerful column. You hit the nail on the head.
Jeff..you had pushed ahead your deadline to the present vs spring for getting out and starting anew. What progress have you made? Start making that list....pick JUST ONE THING...and do it.
FIB
Merry Christmas.
As the song goes this is "the most wonderful time of the year" but when you are divorced with kids Christmas Day is also *exchange day*.
I just gave my kids back to former wife.
It sucks. I felt for them on Christmas morning opening presents without their mom here to share their excitement at what Santa brought.
This is my third Christmas like this and I don't think I can stand another. This one was very painful. I did the best I could for the kids - we had a wonderful Christmas Eve and Christmas morning - but the joy was empty in places. Important places.
We went to see my mom yesterday and exchanged presents. While the kids and I were there, mom gets a call from of all people former wife. My mom is hard of hearing so former W was speaking up and I could hear her call my mother "mom". Then, mom calls this morning before I am fully awake to tell me that former W called her back late last night and invited her to dinner today.
Somehow this all made me very angry. I don't know why. Or maybe I do.
Yes, Christmas is a wonderful time. But not for me. Not this year at least.
I lifted this from frank_D's thread. It says so much in just a few words.
Regardless, for the men on this board there is one thing and one thing only that we need to do and that is to get back our Manhood. Let go of the hurt little boy and realize that our entire life, our future loves, our happiness all depend on us choosing to be ourselves.
Not choosing to be the wounded puppy who got abandoned, kicked and left out in the rain. Get angry. Get really angry. You let this happen to yourself and only you can change it.
The trick is making it happen. Only four little things holding me back: anger, frustration, fear and despair.
Lose these, drive these down, and self-esteem returns.
That is what neeeds to be done.
A focus for a new start.
Manhood sounds so....sexist or whatever. Why not just step up and be a strong person?
Whatever you want to name, just do it.
Pick yourself up Jeff and get moving. You've held on long enough to the bad emotions.
You are absolutely right to lose those!
So buddy, what is your plan to start TODAY?
Manhood sounds so....sexist or whatever. Why not just step up and be a strong person?
We're talking about men being men.
Manhood sounds so....sexist or whatever. Why not just step up and be a strong person?
We're talking about men being men.
Is there a club to join with admission fees?
I understand what you are trying to say, but seeing it happen would go a lot further in proving manhood than just writing about it.
So back to my question, to both of you now - what are you doing to change today?
Manhood sounds so....sexist or whatever. Why not just step up and be a strong person?
We're talking about men being men.
Is there a club to join with admission fees?
I understand what you are trying to say, but seeing it happen would go a lot further in proving manhood than just writing about it.
So back to my question, to both of you now - what are you doing to change today?
I was addressing your comment on it being 'sexist'. It is not. We're talking about men, not women vs men. That's my only point. Well, that and what triggered you to feel like you had to respond with the 'sexist' remark.
Manhood, womanhood, man vs woman, sexist or not. We all form an opinion.
My question still stands, unanswered.
Manhood sounds so....sexist or whatever.
Just the opposite.
I am not talking about being the dominate macho male. I don't even use the term *alpha male* b/c of I believe that it has a negative sexist side.
No one likes the agressive macho jerk strutting his feathers and challenging other males to fight. At least I do not. That is being a little boy really. Think governor of Illinois.
A man being a man is being all he can be while embracing his masculine. The key attributes for me are integrity and honor, the strength to be assertive and do what is right all the time, courage to face fear head on, respect and compassion for others, loyality, quiet leadership by example and action, and perserverance.
Women should do the same but embracing their feminine. You can use different words but the concept is the same.
It is all about the *inner game*, how you feel deep down about you. When a person has their inner game on track, the outter game follows.
To be the person who "has class" or "has style". In all they do.
So back to my question, to both of you now - what are you doing to change today?
Good question. I am working through my issues and looking within to find solutions. Remember, men are solution oriented. And with my INTJ personality, I need a plan before I charge.
But you are correct, I need to get out too. My life will not change by itself unless three spirits visit me on Christams eve. Yes, GAL is part of the equation.
But it is not in itself an answer. I can get involved in many things: hobbies, volunteering, even dating. I would stay busy but in reality, without working the real issues, it is only avoidance behavior. Staying busy but feeling empty, dating but feeling alone.
No thanks.
Staying busy and getting out all the time is no substitute for real happiness.
This is all a process. I choose to focus on my inner issues now, confront my demons, and then my GAL plan to support me.
My whole life plan will only be successful if I approach it the right way.
As a man being a man.
Jeff, you say you can't get your outer game until you have your inner game. That's how you feel and I respect that.
What I offer is for you to make some baby steps and start with your outer game. Getting involved with something may just be a bandaid at first and avoiding dealing with your inner issues. BUT, it may also be just what you need to start getting some feelings of security and esteem about yourself. Get involved, do a good job, get WOA from people.
If you make a list of what you have changed in your life from the beginning of this year to now, how long would your list be?
Jeff, have you ever been spontaneous?
A plan is good, but don't spend all your time thinking about how to make a plan. Just do it.
(((Jeff)))
BTW, glad you're not running around in loin cloths with a club in your hand looking for your manhood.
Jeff...3 Christmas' in a row to be down is....not good. Ya know something, for the first time..this year...I found myself 'enjoying' walking thru the mall and window shopping. Dunno...guess it was the feeling of survival.
Do what Cunningham says. We need to drop the DB anagrams...or..whatever...the STBXW, W, GAL, DB, OM, PA.....crap...etc...and move on. They are writing 'tattoos' that are negative reminders.
I'm starting to side a bit with WCW. As I move thru this, the 'man' thing gets a bit ...hmmmm....?cliche? ?misogynistic? ..not sure. I know what you mean and quoted the same stuff.
I think it comes down to, still, the detachment as described by Gray. Realizing that XXX is NOT the only person who will love and respect you ..will lift you and allow you to see out the right person that WILL. Start working towards getting your 'invincible summer' in the middle of winter.
Jeff.....remember Shawhank. "Get busy living or get busy dying." DON'T DO THE LATTER.
Start Jeff. January 2nd. Start.
FIB
Alpha male <smirk> talk applies to only one guy here, and that's cause he needs it, because he thinks he needs it. Its a crutch. It's not about being a cave man, its about not being a floral doormat.
Good advice for Jeff though, all around.
Live for you, cause no oen else will, and you cannot live for someone else.
Yea, Jack, but we love him. And I usually hate software guys
Thanks WCW. Of course you are right. Only my fear holding me back. How are your horses? I finally found your thread and Sept was not good for you.
((huggs)). You ARE special.
FIB: Thanks so much for your support. You are one of my Better Men.
But...
Jeff...3 Christmas' in a row to be down is....not good. Ya know something, for the first time..this year...I found myself 'enjoying' .........
Brace youself.
Let me let you in to my Christmas:
I had the kids about a week prior to Christmas. They did no see their mom. Court order.
Not on Christmas Eve nor Christmas morn.
On Christmas day, my D7 asked if she could go home earlier than 6:00pm b/c she wanted to see mom.
I took them back early.
Trading your kids Christmas day. Or pick the most important day for you. I did not enjoy it.
That is what to expect FIB. Steel youself.
It sucks.
No, it is not just *detachment*. It is having to deal with your kids suffering.
Not a pretty site.
You understand I know you know. But until you experience it .....
After this experience times three I have but one thing to hold on to:
Strength and Honor.
A "cliche"?
I think not.
Geez, back five minutes and already I have to open up a can of whoop ass on you...
Yez, I suppose you could look at your Christmas in that way...
But if you CHOSE to, you could also see it this way:
You had a whole wonderful week with them before Christmas, and in doing so got to enjoy the expectation, the anticipation, the wonder of Christmas as only children see it.
You had them Christmas Eve and got to do the, "hey, you better go to bed so Santa can come" and hear them giggle and talk, unable to go to sleep because they were so excited. You got to awake at the crack of bejeezus Christmas morning to their laughter...again, to share the thrill, the joy, the glee...nothing, absolutely nothing like a house with children on Christmas morning.
You had your day cut short, yes, but because your daughter wanted to see her mother...feel comforted by the fact that she felt safe enough to say that to you, know that that reflects that you two have succeeded in making them feel safe, making them feel like they can tell the two of you such things, that they can openly and honestly express those kinds of feelings to you without fear of your reacting badly.
You got to take them back home, to their mother, who must have missed them terribly, and been grateful to you for your kindness and caring for your children, and you left them with her, secure and comforted by the notion that she is a good mother, a loving mother.
Pretty damn good Christmas in my book...
besos, old friend,
BmfA
Aww she's here.
It's like watching baseball on the big screen, or finding great shoes on sale.
You know Jeff, the post you wrote to FIB is yes somewhat true.
It does hurt. I have to tell you tho. This is the 2nd Christmas without the X and the kids and I did good.
I had them Christmas eve and Christmas morning. I may not have them next year for this, so I made sure that THIS year was going to be great.
Their faces, well if you go to my FB page you can see them. Waking up in the morning and the FIRST thing they did was lay down on the floor to sing Happy Birthday to baby Jesus, and THEN plow into the presents.
They were so happy and spoiled by so many friends and family.
AND do you know that my kids were able to have Christmas all over again, when they went to their dads place?
They were able to open more things and play those games with his new family.
I have not seen my babies since Thursday this has been the LONGEST time EVER away from my babies.
I miss them sooo dang much, but they have called me with excitement in their voices. No crying.
IT is all falling into place with the help of God.
It may not be the places I wanted them to fall into, but I have to be grateful for what I DO have.
It is all about the babies. They need to see us LIVE and be filled with joy. They need to know that WE are ok when they leave our side to be with the other parent.
It is our duty to make this transition for them as loving as possible. IN spite of our heartache and hurt feelings.
Well BIG hugs to you my friend. I hope you have a wonderful new year
Jeff...I know that my pain is not over. I know that I have yet to be separated from my children. I know that...most likely...here in NY...I will be the one 'forced' to leave the home that I bought and built..where I planted trees for my wife.....where I go on the slide in the backyard...where I lay on the carpet and watch TV in front of the fireplace.
It's coming for me..more pain. But it's change that I must accept...and you must too...because, as YOU have told me over and over again....THIS IS HER CHOICE AND I HAVE NO CONTROL OVER IT. Neither do you, so, it behooves you to move forward or it will eat you up every year.
Instead of looking at the pain of it, you should be now saying it is TIME FOR ME TO BE HAPPY AGAIN.
Yes Jeff. I am now learning...as you predicted...that the pain is changing. I no longer call in desperation about HER...but I hurt for my kids. I think almost EVERYONE here says that THAT pain lingers a LOT longer than the spouse stuff.
And...I agree with what BMF wrote (is it BBA reincarnated?). Your children LOVE YOUR XW...the same that they love you. We CANNOT ASK THEM TO PICK, CHOOSE or PREFER one of us over the other. You cannot equate their desire to be with their mom on Christmas with them feeling LESS for you. And if you have doubts about this, go back and read all the posts here on every thread about feelings we have for our parents: about how much we loved our parents or how much we hurt because they were NOT available to us. Look at frank_d's pain with his father .....or mine...or the love that you and I have for our mothers.
Jeff..you KNOW you are a fine dad. You KNOW your kids love you. They also love their mom.
But..I DO register that shuttling them around sucks and that it wasn't in your gameplan the day you walked down the aisle. Wasn't in mine either.
Choices.
It comes down to choices. XXX and my STBXW made THEIR choices. What are yours?
The State of Alabama made theirs. The State of NY is getting closer to making its own for me. What control do you have here? Only two things...which you taught me early on...you only control your attitude and actions.
Well?
Jeff....we as a species pretty much suck at hiding things well. What are your kids seeing? Can they sense all this? I think probably so. I think one of the greatest gifts you can give your kids this season is 'The Million Dollar Jeff:
Steve Austin, astronaut. A man barely alive. Gentlemen, we can rebuild him. We have the technology. We have the capability to build the world's first bionic man. Steve Austin will be that man. Better than he was before. Better, stronger, faster.
Rebuild yourself starting this week.
Better.
Stronger.
Faster to move on.
FIB
Hi Jeff -
Just reading through some of your threads I notice you use the word "sucks" quite often. You got to stop with that attitude if you are going to live happily in the present and the future.
I am not a Buddhist, but the 4 noble truths may have meaning...
The first is that life is frustrating and painful with suffering. The second is that suffering has a cause. The third is that the cause of suffering can be ended. And the fourth is the path to ending the suffering.
I think you are stuck on wanting what you cant have and it is causing you to go in an endless cycle of wanting--not getting--being sad--wanting again.
Put the past behind you. You have learned from it but dont let it drag you down and hold back your potential.
Thanks so much my friends. You are all saying the same thing:
Jeff - STOP looking at the glass as half empty!!
Thanks again BBA. It felt good to read your post. On the mark as always. Sorry you returned only to see me fallen off that mountain top we once talked about. You are ahead of me - I must catch up - and I will. I once said long ago I was turning this over to God as you did. Remember? But I did not. Perhaps it is time, if only I can wrap my brain around the concept and figure out what is holding me back.
Liz: also felt good to read your message and thanks for sharing your Christmas memories with me. You are a wonderful mom and I DID log on to that other site to look - your kids are great. So are you.
FIB: as always, thanks. My Better Man.
Kerry: thanks for posting. Your words were hard to read. Yes, it is an endless cycle but now I realize it and it must end, and only I can stop it. I needed that 2x4. Thank you.
Yes, my glass is much more than 1/2 full. I will be thankful for what I have; and what can be if only I allow it to be.
Jeff,
You deserve better. Period.
You do, Jeff. Ever watch the movie Willow? The high Elwyn, played by Billy Barty, is interviewing new people for an apprenticeship to become a wizard. He walks in front them, holds up his hand and asks them:
The power to change the world resides in which finger?
One by one, they are eliminated as they choose the wrong finger. The last one Willow, hesitates, and chooses wrongly as well.
A bit later, the wizard asks Willow why he hesitated.
You may think that this is stupid, but, I was going to choose my OWN finger.
The wizard told him that he was CORRECT and that someday, he was going to be a powerful sorcerer.
Jeff, the power to change your life lies in your own mind and hands.
Make the decision to let go and move forward. Start having fun again.
FIB
Jeff,
Howdy old friend! Sorry to hear that Christmas was a downer. I know what you feel. This was the first year I put up the Christmas tree. Kinda of a family thing before the D.
But like the rest are saying....you need to get out there and stop moping! There is a big world out there for you to experience! You just need to get going!
You have followed my thread for a while and there are some new updates to report (yes, after not seeing the XW since Dec 2007!)
But I have to say, after getting off my a$$ and starting over, life is not bad. Not what it was....just different. Good...but different!
Hang in there and next time I check back, I want to hear that you got out there and did something for you!
Thanks frank, frank, caiz.
I feel much, much better. I had an enjoyable time by myself after the kids went to be with mom Christmas through New Years. Got some things done, did some great holiday cooking, and overall got into a better frame of mind.
I reassesed my terms as a man, went through some old stuff and tossed things that no longer defined me, and did some soul searching. I even started a diet after New Years and I am down seven pounds!
Life is good again and I am looking forward to 2009.
Strength and Honor.
Cool, I need to reassess my terms also. Thanks for the reminder.
Jeff, Glad to read that you are feeling better! I love that attitude that you have now!
Congratulations on the weight loss!
I'm praying that 2009 brings you lots of peace and happiness!
Take care of yourself!
deb
WTG Jeff...the journey starts with ONE step. Now..pick ONE thing Jeff. ONE new thing that will get you out among the living/women/friends/ etc and JUST DO IT.
Pick up the phone.
Fill out the application.
Check internet sites for meetups, etc.
Just one and get going.
FIB
Jeff, it was I{me} that was weeping. WCW does not weep at the computer. She admits that she weeps in the shower.
Or has done. I really do agree that if things don't change with within a year, with your crappy marriage, that you are out to sea on a life raft and there are sharks circling...
I have not embraced my fate as shark food. I have treaded the marital waters for too long. I can see the island, but I am a weak swimmer... I keep struggling not to seem like a vunerable seal. I try to be attractive, but not in a seal-like way...
Yes I know it was you. But your case applies to our friend too.
But I will say to you Flicka:
BULL!!!!!
I have read everything you have posted to our friend WCW. Everything.
Sharks? YOU. CAN. HANDLE. THEM.
Ever see the old JAWS the movie? The hero knew how to handle sharks.
Be that person. The person who changes shark food into a high dollar movie sequal.
YOUR MOVIE. And YOU are the star!
Plus, seals are cute
Jeff, you are so funny and nice but now I am wondering if I am more sharkish than seal-like. I feel worried that I was too mean to "Fixer". It is a little too easy to be outspoken about someone else's long-standing problems than it is to address the troubles with my own.
Your grief caught up with me in an odd way. Some of us have been at this for such a long while. I hope that you are doing better and figuring out good ways to be contented with things as they are. Best wishes to you... the birthday kind and the everyday sort as well.
I feel so good I cannot stand it. Must be b/c the holidays are over or maybe it is the 9 deg weather here. A record for this day. I like the cold so a bit of this is good - but I feel for those who deal with it all winter. Also, some snow would be nice
I still am wondering where all the anger went. I keep expecting it to come back but it has not.
Former W emailed me that she enrolled the kids in Sunday School and that she wanted to take them on my weekends too. She said that "S11 asked me to ask you..."
I believe in Sunday School but I try to maximize my my weekends with the kids. I dropped out of church before the divorce was final. I lost my faith to a degree and how she can sit in Sunday School each Sunday is beyond me since divorce is against everything our church stood for.
I was more put out that she did not coordinate with me ahead. So I called her on it; this is a boundary. I told her that I would not even THINK of enrolling the kids in anything on her time without consulting her first and that I would never play the "S11 asked me to ask you" card which only makes the parent a bad parent for saying no.
She emailed back in a non-defensive tone and told me why Sunday School would be good for the kids and why she did it.
Boundary enforced. She should have coordinated better.
I granted her this weekend to take the kids but am still thinking the long term. I struggle with Church and the welfare of the kids...
Today I took my son to his first basketball game of this season. First time I saw former W in person in months.
She looked good. And a wave of emotion took over for about one minute ...
Then nothing.
I cannot explain it. No longing. No regret. No anger or frustration or hate.
Nothing.
I sat there next to her and she had nothing to say. No hello or small talk. She even offered our daughter some gum - but not me.
I just smiled and watched my son play. It did not phase me. If that is the way she wants to be, fine. I was really indifferent.
Then at half time, she looks at me and says "how is your job?" I said fine.
Then she said "I would like your opinion"
I thought an ugly scene was about to happen but instead she went on to say she was offered a different position at work and what did I think.
I always was her sounding board for her career. So I listened, validated, and offered suggestions, without *fixing* it. She seemed pleased and treated me better until we departed. She even mentioned working on her resume - I always helped. I almost felt she was going to ask me to proof read it - but she did not.
Almost like old times - but not. Not even close.
Oh well.
Life is good. I am so glad the feelings are currently under control. At least for now.
Strength and Honor.
Then she said "I would like your opinion"
I thought an ugly scene was about to happen but instead she went on to say she was offered a different position at work and what did I think.
I always was her sounding board for her career. So I listened, validated, and offered suggestions, without *fixing* it. She seemed pleased and treated me better until we departed. She even mentioned working on her resume - I always helped. I almost felt she was going to ask me to proof read it - but she did not.
Wow. Just Wow. You were the alpha male, the 'man' in this.
You put aside all the crap and treated her like you might treat someone on 'the street'. as in 'What Would Jesus Do?'
I hope I can get to the same point you are at soon.
you didn't fix things, you were just being a good man. Treating her like you might treat someone on the street.
Strength and Honor.
Ditto. WTG. You enforced a NUT. A BetterMan indeed. FIB
SO, Saturday night three cute chicks were hanging in the Big Apple, drinking <lots> and talking about, what else, men...
Were your ears ringing, palms itching, whatever body part is s'posed to twitch when you're the topic of such chat???
Gee BBA, I did feel something earlier this month. Never knew it was vibes from up north
Things are still great. I am in a great frame of mind it almost hurts. The job is better - same really but my outlook is better. And I am getting things done. Four more pounds on my diet and I will be at my better weight.
All in all good.
Attended another basketball game for S11. Former W there again. She was pleasant. Talked about her job with me again at length. I listened. I helped her carry in the snacks for the team after the game. She teared up some later - maybe b/c I was not the a-hole she thinks I am.
I thought things were going good with her until today.
A few weeks back she emailed me wanting to enroll the kids in Sunday School. She said "S11 asked me to ask you" if okay she took the kids on my weekends too. Makes me the bad guy if I say no. Seems kids are "embarassed" about missing every other week. She always said divorce was best, but now my kids are in shame?
I had stopped going to church at the latter stages of the divorce so I thought it would be good for the kids until I found my own church again. So I said okay - only a "few' hrs on Sunday morning said she.
Well the few hours start at 0900 and after school there is church, and after church there is chit-chat, and then she puts the KIDS on the phone so they can ask me if they can lunch with mom. How can I say no? Former W will not ask - just like she said "S11 asked me to ask you", making me the bad guy. So a "few" hrs go from 9:00 to almost 2:00. She steals half my day with the kids. Of course, it is not about her says she.
I let that pass for now but a few days back she emails about signing S11 up for baseball. Again I got the "S11 asked me to ask you" in so many words. Well, I am not crazy about the ball program here, my son could care less - it is a social event for him, nothing more - and I would lose half my Saturday too along with practice on the limited days I get them during the week.
So I said we will pass on baseball. I don't want to deny my son sports but there are other options and I feel time with dad is important. I get them less than 40% as it is and she never gives up any time.
She emails today saying she signed them up anyway. She says "this is a bigger issue than baseball and I see it growing as time goes by" referring to the fact that if I do not agree with her 100% where the kids are concerned I am being a bad parent. She even recommended we attend family counseling!
I was going to fire back an email but I am using the 48 hour before responding rule I learned here.
This is a boundary plain and simple. Our settlement agreement prohibits signing the kids up for things on the other parent's time. It also forbids denying the other parent time with the kids. So, I will call her on it.
I will also say to her that it seems to me she is trying to take the kids on my time and that "THAT is the bigger issue than baseball and I see THIS growing as time goes by".
Her whole life continues to be the kids. She is even willing to change jobs so she does not have to travel. Not healthy all around. I cannot stop that, but I can be the father and roll model my kids need.
But now she misses the kids so much she is using outside activites to try to be with them. At my expense. She even called frantically last Friday insisting it was her weekend with the kids. It was the fifth Friday of the month and we alternate those months (I get the first and third weekends each month and every other fifth). I had to calmly explain that last time in Oct it was her time - now it was mine. She hung up the phone.
Maybe I am wrong here? But where does it stop? Does she sign them up for everything in sight and I have no time one-on-one with my kids?
I want to do what is best for the kids, and me. There are many alternatives here for the kids. But to use them to "ask me" is wrong. Placing them in the middle is wrong. Placing me in the position of bad guy is wrong. I really feel she is manipulating this for her own selfish lonely reasons.
Should I tell her all this or just say no?
I would tell her. Then she will 'know' the reasons.
go to the damn counselling and calmly say what you said here...and how she uses them to communicate things that should ONLY be discussed between adults and how she gives up none of her time with them...
Calmly say it the way you did here. Very clear to me that you have very valid concerns.
(( j ))
Jeff,
I know I don't usually post to you but something occurred to me when I read your post.
Does your son have an opinion on the baseball etc?
I can see why you don't like your W's tactics, and the way she just signed up for the activity is wrong, BUT maybe there is an underlying thing going on. Let me explain....
My parents split the day after my 8th birthday and my sister was 11.5 yrs old. To begin with we saw our dad at the specified times....but as time went on and things settled down and my sister and I felt secure again.....well then we started doing what kids do and wanted to hang out with our friends and unfotunately the best time for doing that was at the weekends, which was also our dad's time. Our friends all got together and hung out at the weekends and so if we missed doing that we were sort of left out. We would be completely clueless about things that would have happened on the weekends etc and we just felt slightly left out of our friendship groups.
It maybe that your children are saying to their mom that they want to do these things and be with their friends, but they don't want to hurt you and say it to you. She may be covering for them to try and soften the blow. It's not to do with not wanting to see your parent.....it's to do with growing up and wanting to be with your firends. Lets face it, when you are young you don't imagine a time when your parents won't be there at your beck and call. The children don't always understand what a big thing it is for the parents to see them. I mean, if you and your W were still together this wouldn't be an issue, as there wouldn't be such rigid time divisions and these things would flow naturally.
My dad found it very hard to cope with, but he did let go a bit and my mom accomodated him into different times of our week so it worked better for all of us. Sometimes these things just need a bit of tweaking.
If I have spoken out of turn as I don't know your whole history, I apologise.
She even recommended we attend family counseling!
There's your ticket. All aboard????
go to the damn counselling and calmly say what you said here...and how she uses them to communicate things that should ONLY be discussed between adults and how she gives up none of her time with them...
Calmly say it the way you did here. Very clear to me that you have very valid concerns.
(( j ))
Yes Yes Yes!
good points Saff, food for thought for sure.
( j )
Thanks all. What great replies.
Saffie, 25, you did bring up good points and so did you all.
I doubt counseling is any answer. The only reason she mentioned it is b/c she believes 100% that she is right and I am wrong. The counseling is to *fix* me, not her or our interaction concerning the kids. Her mind is closed. The counseling is to point out what a low-life s-bag I am as a father. It is to confirm her opinion of me, nothing more.
Yes, I could sit there calmly and state my case, but it will do nothing but making her defensive. You see, her entire emotional state of mind is wrapped up with the kids. It is what broke up our marriage. If that is threathened, she is nothing. She will defend that to her last breath.
She will never admit to *super mom*. She cannot. She will never admit it may be hurting the kids. It is okay in her mind to use the kids against me. After all, I have no RIGHT to be their dad and I should go away - just like so many dads did for her other divorced friends.
So it is her problem, not mine.
I did contact two of my Better Men. They both said essentially the same thing. "What do YOU want Jeff?" "Not what you think is "best" for the kids or what is best to keep the peace with ExW." Or what is best to ease any guilt I may have.
"What do YOU want Jeff?"
If I do what is best for me, the kids will be fine. Do I want to give up 1/2 my Sunday? Do I want my son enrolled in baseball?
Those are my decisions. If she doesn't like, too bad. The kids are going to have to live their lives in split households - that is the reality of the matter. Period. End of story. She is more than welcome to take them on her days. On my weekends, I should do whatever I feel is best with them. And they will feel safe and secure and okay.
Agree with her that it is unfortunate the kids won't have continuity - however, there is no need for me to defend my decision nor have to justify my private time with them.
And they both agreed it was wrong for her to sign them up against my wishes and our settlement agreement. But they cautioned me not to let my little boy react.
React as a Man should.
Express my feeling but don't defend them. Be assertive in enforcing my boundaries; don't let her be disrepectful. Protect my time with my kids. Don't let her take me out of the equation. Lead. Stay cool.
Points to ponder.
My phone didn't ring so I guess I am not one of your Better Men.
I am disappointed that you refuse the offer of family counseling.
What are you afraid of?
Jeff,
I just think you are not looking at this from your children's point of view. I disagree that's what's best for you is best for them.
Sometimes you have to give a little to get something back in return. Talk to your children rather than make this into a battle between you and your W with the children just being pawns in all of this.
Your children may be reluctant to tell you the truth because they fear hurting you....that's what my sister and I felt like. If you and your W were still together, this time thing would not be an issue and your children would be partaking in activities they wanted to do without all this drama. They would be gradually spending less time with their parents and more with their friends....that's the usual way things evolve as they slowly break the apron strings.
Jeff...I DO agree with saffie in that...the word 'sacrifice' comes in here.
-does S want to play baseball?
-will counselling help?
There is no doubt in my mind that her having pushed over you and signed up your son without your permission was wrong and a boundary was crossed.
But...again...the kids NEED outside time, sports, etc and frequently WE must sacrifice for THEM. IT IS ALL ABOUT THEM NOW.
Yes...you need time with them and YES..it is not permissible for her to make unilateral decisions regarding the kids.
Does S want to play baseball? If so, is there another league that gives MORE time with you? If not, do you sacrifice so that HE can benefit from team sports?
I DO believe that S should talk with you and NOT W RE: S. That should stop. He should talk directly with you.
FIB
I agree saffie and FIB, it is about the kids and believe me, I have dedicated time and even given up time for them for activities outside the home, many times. But the more I give the more is taken. Remember my time with them is limited as it is.
Outside activities such as sports are good but so is private time with dad doing things together. I can see Ex signing them up for everything for the "good of the children", thus effectively denying me my private time if I say yes or causing the guilt trip (and the ugly word resentment) if I say no. Again, where do I draw the line?
If you and your W were still together, this time thing would not be an issue and your children would be partaking in activities they wanted to do without all this drama. They would be gradually spending less time with their parents and more with their friends....
So true. But we are not together. An unfortunate byproduct of divorce is that the children will not be able to participate in everything and that they will lack continuity in parts of their lives. I wish I could prevent that but I cannot.
But Jeff, whether you and your W were together or not, your children would gradually see less and less of you.
Now, if you were in a happy M there would be your W to fill that void and the H and W would start to do more together again on their own as the children got older; they would regain their life together as adults.
What happens when you force the children to come see you over things they want to do? I know in my experience it caused a whole lot of tears before it was sorted.
I know this is a bit of an extreme example, but a friend of mine had his W walk out on him when his son was 18 months old. His W remarried. At the age of 5 his son asked his mom if he could call his step dad 'dad' and his natural father by his christian name; he got upset trying to explain at school that the man he lived with wasn't his dad. His dad was extremely upset as you can imagine but he went with it for his son's sake.
Then when the son got to the age of 11 - 16 he cut down the visitataion to his dad because he wanted to hang out with his mates and again his dad agreed although it hurt him.
From the age of 17 onwards - the age of driving over here, his son started upping the amount of time he spent with his dad, and now they are really good friends and see a lot of each other- the son is now 27. What my friend lost when his son was younger he has regained now.
That is an extreme example. Sorry soffie but it was a very bad example. This touches a nerve.
That father did everything wrong. Every book and parenting class I have digested says you NEVER let a child call someone dad (or mom) who is not their parent. If fact it is in my divorce agreement per court order. The true dad should NEVER take second place. NEVER.
My son is 11. An 11 year old is not old enough to decide anything, let alone the visitation schedule with his dad. A father LEADS his son, not the other way around. A father sets the example. Just b/c of divorce does not mean his responsibility ends.
They may be best friends now, but seems to me that this dad did not see his son grow up. That time is priceless and he lost out, and no you can never get that back. He let another man and his son's teenage friends raise him.
Sorry this sounds harsh, but the court system in the USA already treats dads as second class. What I get is called 'visitation" like I am a Dutch Uncle or something. I will never agree to give up my position as a father and a dad. I will never compromise on my position as THE man in my son and daughter's lives.
To do otherwise makes me less of man; not a man at all.
Well said Jeff! No decent father (or mother) should be put in stand-by during the most important molding times in a childs life.
I have to agree that the example above was not that great. It hurt and hit a nerve with me too. Not good. Like Jeff, I choose NOT to lose time with my kids.
I had told Jeff that I signed my son up for baseball clinic on Saturdays, 1-230P. It cuts into my time and also my time with D5. But my son needs the work. One of my N.U.T.S. is that my sone MUST be in at least one activity per season to stay healthy and active. Right now..it appears to be baseball. Quality of the time must exceed quantity at times.
So, Jeff, I agree, but, I think you need to first:
-tackle the REAL issue at hand and that is not being edged out unilaterally re: decision making.
-then...tell us here...what does S11 tell you he wants to do? Does he want to play baseball? Does her prefer soccer? lacrosse? swimming? golf? Let us know
I think EVERYONE would agree here, LBH or LBW,...that they MUST participate 50% in decisions regarding the welfare of their kids.
On the flipside Jeff...the kids need playdates...they need to develop skills and interact with others their age....they need to play. Is 100% dad (including me too Jeff)...too much saturation? Do we compromise their social skills for OUR emotional needs?
There is a balance, good buddy. I'm sure that..pretty soon...I'll be coming to you to ask similar stuff.
Sort it out....what is anger or frustration against my WAW? what are MY needs? what are my CHILDREN'S needs? how do I remove 'the little boy' inside and deal with XXX in a strong fashion with leadership and authority?
As Cunningham says, treat her justly.
FIB
Wow this jumped out at me!
On the flipside Jeff...the kids need playdates...they need to develop skills and interact with others their age....they need to play. Is 100% dad (including me too Jeff)...too much saturation? Do we compromise their social skills for OUR emotional needs?
I see this happening from Mums as well.
Food for thought indeed.
YOU WROTE:
What do YOU want Jeff?" "Not what you think is "best" for the kids or what is best to keep the peace with ExW." Or what is best to ease any guilt I may have.
"What do YOU want Jeff?"
If I do what is best for me, the kids will be fine. Do I want to give up 1/2 my Sunday? Do I want my son enrolled in baseball?
Those are my decisions. If she doesn't like, too bad. The kids are going to have to live their lives in split households - that is the reality of the matter. Period. End of story.....END QUOTE
Jeff, my friend, you are a good man. But to me, this is the reverse of the truth. What is best for our children is best for us, in the long run, and usually in the short run too.
And while I know your w wanted the counselling session to convince you that you were wrong, she would not have succeeded, and it might have had a seed of reality therapy planted in her crazy head...that was my hope.
(( j ))
Jeff,
I know the example I gave you was extreme but I wanted to illustrate to you an instance of a father who put his child first however much it hurt him. I don't expect you to react in such a strong way.....but at the moment I do not think you are putting your children's needs first. I think you are using them as a reason to argue/ harbour bad feelings towards your ex and I think that could backfire. A little give and take is required. If your W takes that specific time away from you then she needs to give back time elsewhere.
saffie...THAT last post I agree with. That's what I tell Jeff. He must now take time and SORT OUT his feelings here. What is anger against his WAW? What is the truth with regards to his son re: baseball? Does S11 want to play the sport or is he being ramshackled to it? Jeff..have you sat down in Starbucks with S11 over a hot chocolate and asked him what he wants to do?
If S11 said he hates baseball, then, there would be a HUGE discussion to have with WAW.
If S11 wants to play, I think it behooves you to 'make it work'. I also think that you should then work something out with WAW where there are sports and leagues where some of the time falls on HER days so that you DO have the time that you need.
Jeff...tomorrow...Saturday..is my day with the kids until weekends are split. S8 has an hour and a half baseball clinic...I arranged a playdate for him for two hours after that....we then have my sis' birthday across the street and he will play with his cousin's. He then has a sleepover party. I am trying to arrange for D5 to have a playdate during his baseball clinic so she doesn't have to sit bored in a cold warehouse.
S8 is going to have a GREAT DAY tomorrow. I will have little time with him....but he needs this now.
What is right for your S11? Why don't YOU start planning the activities and playdates that work for YOU? A 180? I register my kids for all the sports and now 'do playdates'.
Sort it out. But..by ALL MEANS....I support you on maintaining the place in the equation. There is NO SUCH THING as unilateral decisions with regards to the education, health and welfare of your kids.
Strength and honor.
FIB
The 3 worst words in the English language are "should", "could" and "would" for they are all about obligations and things we think are best for us to do, but aren't.
IOW, they are wellsprings of guilt.
Guilt sucks.
We know and are constantly learning what's best for us as men and fathers - and sometimes we forget our exes do NOT have a monopoly on truth and understanding. So if they insist on doing things in a certain way, that does not mean they are right.
Okay, let me sound defensive (it is my thread afterall
):
The point here is not about sports. My kids are already particpating in sports on my weekends and I fully support that. And they will continue to do so in the future.
The question here is what my friend FIB calls *balance*. Just b/c a child wants to do XX does not mean a parent should sacrifice all to get him or her XX, provided the parent is not hurting the child in the process. Notice I say hurt, not disappoint.
My duty as a father is not to make my kids happy or be their playmate. My job is to teach them about life, how to survive, how to grow into pillars of society. Strength, honor, integrity, loyality, family, perserverence. My terms as a man.
Part of that is the reality that we don't always get what we want but we can develop the skills to get what we need.
I cannot teach them my terms (given my LIMITED time with them) without a balance of inside private time and outside activities with friends or organized sports.
That is what I am asking for here. Balance. The kids are already enrolled in many things. My son played baseball in the past and it was beyond doubt the most time consuming, so my decision was to pass on baseball in favor of alternatives that would fit our schedules better.
It was not a hasty decision.
Former W chose to ignore me.
And, I hate to say it, all evidence points to she did it so that she could get additional time with the kids. I will not bore you with additional facts here.
That is the case in hand. It has little to do with me trying to pick a fight or harbor anger. Been there, done that.
It has all to do with boundaries and what is good for me and the kids.
And, yes I am in the equation. If all I do is give by doing what I "should", "could" or "would" then it WILL turn into guilt and resentment. I am only human.
Balance is win-win. No resentment. Kids get to do their thing. I get to do my thing with them. Kids feel secure; they don't have to choose between dad and XX. And I do not put them under pressure by asking them to choose (sorry FIB).
Men Lead. Not the children.
Former W is trying to take that away.
*Should* I allow that to happen?
----
I am glad I started this discussion. So MANY positive, thought provoking points made.
Thanks.
Strength and Honor.
Okay. Let me NOT be defensive
.
Have the kids tonight. They are trying to make a house out of playing cards.
I walked up and said "let me show you a different way to do it - the way I learned when I was your age".
They were THRILLED. An hour of them trying to do what I did.
How did you learn, they asked over and over?
Be patient, said I.
Hey dad, LOOK! Look what I did!
I shared how I learned from my uncle how to do this. I shared family history.
They were hanging on my every word. My daughter kissed me.
Hey dad, we are getting GOOD at this!! Come look!!!
Of course I could have been at some outside activity, watching from the bleachers.
No thanks.
BUT - the building cards does not replace the outside activities.
Balance.
Should I let former W define that?
I was raised Catholic so I know about how people react to the word guilt...but there is such a thing as a conscience.
Shame is unhealthy. Remorse is a guide. Try hard to know the difference.
In the end, if I fail my children in some meaningful way, then nothing else I do in my life will matter much.
I don't know the right answer here, but I sense a scorecard and a competition with the wife and frankly, I don't care if she has a scorecard. I bet she does. I don't care what her motives are.... I just want you to do what is best for the children without the spin about your needs and wants. Sounds a lot like rationalizations, and those rationalizations are frightening things...
Hope this is making sense.
(( j ))
Been awhile. Busy at work and other things. I lost my 15 lbs and feel and look great.
Sent former W an email and told her that her planning things on my time was a non-starter. I worded it nice but firm. This is a boundary that I not let things come between my kids and me.
She backed down. In fact, for the first time she offered to give up her time if she needed to. I was shocked at her response. Like I discussed before, this was a test. Push my buttons and see what happens. Sticking to my terms and boundaries worked and made "passing" the test possible. She knows when she crosses the line.
I discussed baseball with my son and we decided he should play. I still hate it takes so much time but the season is not too long. I am still on the fence about Sunday School. I am not yet ready to find a new church but when I do the kids will go with me.
All for now. This thread is about to lock. Doubt I will start another. There are only two or three folks left that I still follow here - everyone else is gone. I don't have the strength to read newcomers anymore - the memories are too strong and the newcomers sound just like I did three years ago.
Been three years this month since the bomb. Also my one year anniversay as a single guy. Three years without sex (is that a record?).
The next three years will be better. And the next three after that.
They will be b/c I will live in a way that will make me happy. I am free to choose my world and I have the power to transform it.
We all can.
Strength and Honor.
Hey Jeff,
You still here.
I don't get on this site too much anymore, it can get a bit depressing.
It is crazy the way you think you have everything under control and then some thing happens and you see that you still have a long way to go.
My STBXW still hasn't filed, still has here beau staying at the family home when he's in town and still pointedly ignoring me when I visit the kids. her loss.
I was given a box of chocolates before Christmas for doing a santa gig at this local church, so not wanting them myself I gave them to loverboy as a Christmas present, I had presents for the kids, a cheap one for the ex2b & her family etc. so I figured I'd give him one too. wtf as they say. Still hasn't caused any thawing of his icy looks when I turn up at her place. His problem not mine.
Am thinking of filing myself, government is giving most of us a cash payment to try to bolster the economy over here, so I might use the governments $'s to file, I'll see. Seems like enough is enough to me.
Well, take care Jeff. I'll update my 2 year old thread shortly.
Paul (TNP)
To Jeff....I understand how you feel about ending your thread. I think that, if being here causes you one minute of feeling down by, what my IC labels 'cues', then it's time to wind down.
I know I will when I reach that point. Who'da thought that I would be here almost three years post-bomb (mine in 5/06). DonH once posted on my thread, "be patient as this is going to take a long time." Man was HE right. I miss his posts.
This is your year Jeff. You are NOT a failure. You WILL BE if you lose everything you've learned here and don't apply it to your next R. So...I, in a positive way, I DO DISAGREE with you...after all this time...you one statement that 'we DID fail'.
No we didn't Jeff.
No we didn't.
Kudos on 'passing' one of those 'tests' we hear about.
Finally, to TNP...I understand where you are. Afterawhile, you see the light....you recognize that the 'emperor has no clothes'...and you understand that when you've fought the good fight, divorce is more a rebirth than a death. Stay strong.
Strength, and honor Jeff.
FIB
3 years is a long time but not so unusual here. And not so long, compared to a life time together. But you know something in you is different when you see D as a freeing thing. Not at all terrifying the way it once was. Sounds as if you are there.
I do have 2 relatives who divorced and remarried years later. So it does happen. But then, who knows what YOU will want down the road?
At some point, like you said, "enough is enough" and I'd still just caution you about the fathering things I've said before. But as for your w and THAT R, well, you seem to be where you need to be to move on...at least now. No one here will sit in judgement of you for filing...we all need to know at some point that it's DONE and we are FREE...
(( j ))
PS from what I've read here, nope, 1 year without sex is NOT nearly a record. In fact there are some sex starved marriages with NO sex for years and they are married! Of course, that is probably why they are on this site...
Been a few months. Not much to report really and I see this thread will soon close. I will miss this place (although I still follow a few folks - everyone else is gone). It was of great help but now a year post-divorce it drags one down. Too may people going through heck here.
I have not fully moved on with my life yet. I so miss my kids, so I still pray for that miracle that will bring my family together again. Ain't going to happen.
Former W has been chatty these past few months and I thought I saw possibility - but as soon as I relaxed my guard and she lowers hers, she snaps back to being the bit*h again.
Time to really move on.
I have my kids today. Schools here closed when a few kids came down with flu like symptoms. Even athletics were cancelled.
My son is playing baseball this year. Maybe why former W seemed chatty as I saw her at the games. S11 is not a very good player but he enjoys it. I am glad I decided to let him play. xW even traded some days with me so I could keep the kids without ball practice cutting into my time. She never traded days before. But that will end now- a few days ago son broke his wrist - you guessed it, playing baseball. But it was an after school game - not his formal team. Cast for three weeks and then slow use for two weeks. He is disappointed but seems to be taking it well. Picked a green cast - they come in colors now.
Former W also had to change jobs again and again spent an hour on the phone asking my opinion on her career. She also called my mom up for Easter.
All "baby steps" ? - as I said ain't no such thing.
Moving forward. With ...
Strength and Honor.
Happy New Year Jeff. And thanks for continuing to support me. I believe my D has turned out to be the longest and worst here. Amazing..considering my thread was once in the 'inspirational' column here. DonH knew better. He saw the 'prematurity'.
Here's to a new start.
FIB
Jeff, ditto FIB - thanks for riding along all these years.
There's so many folks that were such good DB buddies and I wonder too often where their lives went when they left the board. Some left bitter, some left happy. That is the choice we have. How we shape our future is in our control.
It's another year!
Sit tall in the saddle, chin up, eyes on the horizon.
Love you guys!