My H told me two months ago that he wanted a trial separation because he was not sure he wanted to be married anymore. Period. He felt old and trapped. A mid-mid-life crisis, if you ask me. We are in our twenties.
Since he was once so totally commited and in love with me (and I was the cold one) the news came as a shock.
Since then I have cryed, moved out, moved back in, begged, pleaded, threatened suicide, called his parents and brother to help me, talked his ears out about the issue.
For the first week he accepted giving us a chance and lived at home. He finally moved out one day because he couldn't handle my constant bickering about the issue. I couldn't drop it.
My attitude was the same for the following months, except I started going out just to hurt him and show I was independent and didn't need him, just to call him crying a few days later... His approach to the situation changed. All of a sudden, he was sure he wanted a divorce and that he was happier without me. My pursuing him only made him decide sooner that leaving was the answer for him.
I became even more desperate because my attempts to getting him back were backfiring. Since reading DB, however, my whole attitude has changed. I stopped the calling, crying, talking about the relationship and trying to make him jealous. I am actually very upbeat when we talk (maybe too much).
Here are the changes since my 180 started:
- He is more interested in what I am doing and wants to know what time I got home and where I went.
- He starts conversations online and is getting more comfortable talking with me.
- He calls sometimes to talk about the dog or the house, but he did not use to call my cell phone.
- We went out for a hike (my suggestion) and talked and laughed througout the day. I even caught him staring at me when I wasn't looking.
- He makes sexual jokes about us.
- We had sex one day (I initiated it - must not)
- He hasn't brought up the subject of divorce nor asked me to leave the house so he can come back (he had asked it once).
It has been a week and a half since I started DB and acording to Michelle, those are all good signs, but here are the questions:
- Since his behavior is so out of character for the loving and caring H he used to be, am I kidding myself that this is going somewhere? Am I seeing more than there really is?
- He is still in a hurry when he passes by our house and I am here. He always has something he HAS to do right away and needs to leave soon. I always ask him to stay a little longer (MAJOR "more of the same") and he always refuses. What to do?
Caverna --
It sounds as though things are definitely going in the right direction! 180s are SO powerful -- you've captured that and used it! GREAT.
I think you're doing the right stuff...180s, keeping track of what's working and what isn't, etc. Now comes the PATIENCE part...just keep up with what you've accomplished so far...and keep making small goals and tracking progress.
One thing I noted was that he's the one to end the interactions (and you ask him to stay...). What if YOU were the one who had something to do next time?
Sage
Thanks Sage! It IS a good idea! I will def. do that.
180s are so funny... I have been online every morning, so my H is already expecting me there. Today I did a 180 without trying because I couldn't get online, so by midday he called "just to find out if I had walked the dog." When I saw his phone on the caller ID I had to laugh. Becoming umpredictable makes THEM become predictable.
Umbelievable!
When my H came home to bring the dog back, instead of leaving the house, like Sage suggested (it was late and it's cold outside :-P ) I did another 180 by not following him around the house like I usually do and instead keep watching the TV.
At first he just put the collar of the dog away and was ready to leave, but then turned around as if to get something he forgot.
I kept watching TV.
He came downstairs and started wondering around the leaving room, trying to strike up conversations.
I was friendly, but not overly enthusiastic by his hanging around (he had never done that).
All of a sudden he sits on the couch next to me and starts paying attention to the movie, while asking me questions about my life.
He said "honey" twice, something he had substituted for my nickname since all this started.
Finally, he asked if I needed a massage and we ended up going to the bedroom.
Afterwards he went to the computer and I went back downstairs. But I am static because he never hung around for this long.
He didn't stay for the night, but so far I am impressed with how this 180 works!!!!
Did a major setback by getting all upset when he told me he had a wedding to go to by mentioning it very "matter-of-factly" when I invited him for a hike this weekend.
He claimed that he might not be able to go for a hike because of "all those things he had to do." However, the wedding is at night so there was no need for him to tell me, but to piss me off.
He succeeded.
I told him it was mean that he mentioned it when he knew it would mean a lot to me if he had invited me.
He appologized saying he didn't know that that would hurt me.
At the end of the day he showed up at the house and I was ready to go out. I didn't follow him around and again he came into the room I was at.
He played with the dog while asking me questions about where I was going and with who. He called my new friends sluts, kidding, but I know he is jealous.
I lied that I was going to a dance club (I actually just went to have pizza with some friends). He seemed very disturbed by that but tried to keep his cool.
Should I stop the jealousy game?
I had told my H that I wouldn't be home all day (I lied - one of his complaints was that I was always home with no plans, so when I am not REALLY busy, which I am often, I pretend to be). I said to him that I would probably pass by home to change and go out again around 3pm (he asked).
So guess who comes by around 3pm?
Those "coincidences" keep happening....
Gladly I was cleaning the house in my thong and sports bra... hehehe (I always did that - it's freakin hot!)
Anyway, his excuse was to get his suit to this stupid wedding.
I was cheerful and kept moving from one room to the other, minding my business. It was even funny watching him follow me around the house. He finally decided to give me a hug, out of the blue.
I asked, why the hug?
He just smiled and then said that the only reason he was going to this wedding (actually, reception) was because it was an open bar - he barely knows the groom. Why explain himself? Huuuuummmmmm
I told him to have fun and continued my business. He kept wondering around and finally asked what I did last night...
I told him very little.
He decided to leave, but suddenly decided to clean his car, so he has been downstairs doing that. hummmm
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Good work!
I agree!! Sounds like you've had a great amount of turnaround in just a short period of time. Way to go!
I also have to emphasize what sage says about....
and keep making small goals and tracking progress.
What would be a couple of small, doable, positive, action-oriented goals you could make, that you'd like to see happen within the next week or two? Also, especially in your case, what are some of the "good things" that are happening right now that you'd like to see continue, and/or happen more often?
You're doing some great DB'ing here so far! Keep up the great work!!
I just wanted to post here to vent. I keep on thinking that H is in that wedding reception now and I keep imagining that he could be dancing with another girl. I am going crazy!!! What can I do to calm myself down?????
Should I ask if H is seeing someone or is interesting in seeing other people?
A few weeks ago he said it was never his intention to see other people. By the contrary, he just wanted to be alone.
When I asked him if I could see other people (just to test him), he got really angry and claimed that this was adultery.
This was three weeks ago.
He has been going out more with friends that always bring a girl home at the end of the night, but one of my 180s is not to talk or obsess about R with him. Am I being paranoid?
I invited H for a hike and we went.
I told him before we left that I had been feeling sick all morning and for the last week too. I had been suspicious that I was pregnant, but didn't give it much thought because I am on the pill.
He said, sounds like morning sickness.
I didn't say anything back.
In the car he gave me one of those stares again.
We went for the hike and talked about a number of things.
He finally asked me what we are going to do about the "living arrangements" since he doesn't want to live with his parents anymore, meanining: when are YOU going to leave our house?
PS: I cannot afford our mortgage.
I told him I hadn't decided yet what I was going to do. I lied that I had looked into some rental places and said that was considering going back to my country.
I was very quiet afterwards and reminded myself that in a situation like this, I had to remain calm, not cry, not ask him to reconsider the relationship.
But then I felt really sick and had to sit down. He went to get the car.
Once he came back I told him that I might be pregnant. His expression softened, as if this was good news for him. I told him I have been feeling very lonely about this; that I hadn't told anyone and that I was afraid he would ask me to have an abortion.
He said I was crazy to think that and that "our situation" would completely change if that was the case. He got emotional and cryed.
We went home and I took a pregnancy test, crying all the way.
It was negative.
I came downstairs in a better mood and told him the news. He gave me a hug and told me he was sorry that I had been passing through this alone, that I could trust him and talk with him.
But that's the part I don't get.
He DIDN'T undo the hug. Instead he kissed me and carried me to bed. We made love and he was more affectionate.
Afterwards he got ready to leave and said I should stay home if I wasn't feeling well.
I couldn't resist breaking my rules and asked him if he loved me. He looked at me for a while and said yes... BUT doesn't want to be married anymore. He says he felt like an animal in a cage as a married man.
I told him he hurt me when he asked me to see other people because I don't want to see anybody else. I want to be with him. He started crying at this point.
I asked if he really wanted me to leave for good. He said he didn't want to, but also didn't want to hold me back, that I need to be happy and successfull.
Said he couldn't make me happy and when I asked why, he answered: because I am not happy.
Then he got annoyed and said, we had this conversation a thousand times before. Then came to give me a hug and left.
I'm very confused about his behavior. Apparently he still wants me to get out of the house, or at least doesn't want to live with his parents anymore. Then why did he kiss me and took me to bed?
H came back last night was VERY upbeat. He even set down to watch Seinfeld with me and laughed out loud. We shared a desert together. He was very friendly and nice.
However, due to the conversation from earlier last morning, I decided to ask him a favor and make him a suggestion. I thought about it for a long time and decided that the best medium would be an e-mail so he could actually think about it, reread it and not defend himself right away. Also, so I could make my point across in a rational and not pushy way.
Maybe I should have waited a little longer since he was so nice at night, and should have asked you guys what is the best move, but it's done and here is what I wrote:
H,
Before anything, I have to let you know how much I
appreciate your patience and sweetness towards me and
my situation. I am grateful that you are willing to
wait for my decisions and that you are taking care of
me.
I still don’t know if my fate is to live in the US or
go back to my country. It’s a tough decision, as you might
imagine. I am still trying to figure a lot of things
out and don't want to have to rush into making a life
choice that I will regret.
The decision for me to leave our home is a very
difficult one, even if just to live nearby, but I also
understand what a tough time you must be having living
with your folks (I’ve done that and I remember :-P)
You must be missing your home and living with the
doggie.
Since I have a major crossroad to face, I have to ask
you a BIG favor: I want to stay in the house for a
little while longer.
But here is the thing: we are getting along, we
respect each other, I respect your freedom and your
decisions, and I want you to be happy doing whatever
it is you want to do with your life. So here is my
proposal: a lot of separated couples live under the
same roof until the divorce is done, especially in the
state of Virginia (in the state of Virginia couples
can live under the same roof and still claim
separation – all you have to have is separate rooms
and beds).
Since we have such different schedules, we wouldn’t
see much of each other anyway and in the weekends
we’ve been having different interests.
By all means, I don’t mean for us to live a married
life. I know that you don’t want that to happen and I
am not stupid to force you to do anything you don’t
want to. I want things to continue as they are right
now. You do your things, I do mine. We don’t have to
tell each other what we are doing with our lives. We
just have to be civilized as roommates. If we want to
hang out, we hang out, if not, than each goes their
way.
I will still pay the bills and we will share doggie
care.
I am serious that I don’t want to invade your privacy.
I don’t want you to feel uncomfortable. I am just
trying to be as practical as possible while I get my
life straight. I’m actually enjoying most of my alone
time and my newfound social life. I just feel bad that
you are having to live with your folks but am not
ready to move myself.
I will give you some space this week to think about my
suggestion. If I need you to take care of the dog
during lunch, I will give you a call and leave a
message (Tuesday is the only day so far).
Take your time to think about this and just give me a
call when you are ready to talk.
by the way, I am going dark this week.
*hugs* Wow, reading your sitch reminds me a lot of mine.
Okay, here's my advice. No more R talk with him. Let him come to you. No more ILY's, no more questions to see where his head is. This is a long, hard process. There are lots of ups and downs and for you, you'll have to swollow a lot of pride and a lot of feelings. At this point the only thing you want your H to see is a self-confident happy woman who is getting a life of her own. That doesn't mean you don't feel all the bad stuff, but you don't let him see it. This is easier said than done, I know.
Don't bring up the living sitch again. That's not your problem. He left, he has to deal with what to do next. Also, a rule that has helped me some in all this - if you think you want to do or say something major, wait a week. Things change too suddenly.
You worry about you. You've got a lot of positives in your sitch. That's a wonderful thing. They will help you when you're in the down spots.
So now I ask, have you come up with some goals for yourself? And some ideas to really GAL, instead of pretending to get one?
As long and hard as this is to do, it's worth it. And you can do it. Patients. Lots of patients. I'm here if you need someone to talk to or just need to vent.
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have you come up with some goals for yourself? And some ideas to really GAL, instead of pretending to get one?
Good question!!! My friend just asked me that yesterday. It got me thinking. This is so overwhelming that I forget about everything else that I wanted to do in my life.
I had a huge fight with H and then wrote a very nasty e-mail.
I am pretty sure it's over for good. Now I want the big D. I am just too tired.
(((HUGS))) I am sorry about your fight with H, I have been reading your sitch, I hope you are feeling better today. If you need to chat or anything I should be here most of the day...hang in there!
Hi hope, I really lost it. I did everything I was avoiding doing. I even yelled I never wanted to see him again. He said a lot of mean things too. When I asked if he was sleeping with someone else, he said that this was never about another women, "this is about YOU," he yelled, "YOU are the problem."
I told him I don't remember being that terrible and that I actually think he will regret it because he will never find someone like me (I honestly think I was good for him. We had our disagreements, but I never mistreated him). He started laughing and said that it was going to be the opposite, that I would regret this forever.
I said I don't remember being that much of a bitch and he said, that's the problem.
I got angry and told him I didn't want to see him again and he said, "get out of my house, then"
Of course I said it's my house too and he was the one who left. He said, "you pay the mortgage then" (I can't afford it).
Anyway, he was very angry and called me selfish over and over again, when with this divorce I am going to lose my greencard, lose my job, my house, my life here, have to move back to my country and restart everything there. Plus he says that I am not entitled to anything because I am not a citizen (I don't know where he got that from - the house is in my name too). And then I am selfish?????
That's why I am so tired and am ready to go ahead with it.
I know it won't be easy, but nothing can be worse than what I am living know, crying day in, day out.
An alien did abduct him. It's scary that this man once said he would give his life for me.
*huge hugs* I've been where you're at many times. All is not lost, you just have double your efforts and start again. The best advice I can give you right now (and I just had to do this Saturday night) is when he starts to get you going like this, don't give in to it. Just agree with him, in a way.
Like this:
Him: "You're such a bitch."
You: "Okay."
Him: "This is all about you!"
You: "If you say so."
Him: "You're so selfish!"
You: "I'm sorry you feel that way."
Him: "You are the problem!"
You: "I can understand how you feel that way, but I don't see it that way."
Don't give him anything to argue with. It feels strange to do, but OMG does it work. XH was going to leave me Saturday night, move out, he was done. I didn't argue with him, just told him to do what he needed to do. Sunday morning he said he was sorry. He's not going anywhere.
I know this is hard, and I know you're hurting. I also know how hard it is to keep sane though all this. YOU CAN DO IT. Don't give up.
Hope, my case is similar to yours in the sense that I wasn't totally honest with him for a part of our relationship. For the most part, I still thought a lot about my ex (my H doesn't know any about this) and wasn't sure if I loved my H.
One day I was online telling a friend that I wasn't attracted to my H anymore because he was out of shape. I told her I was tired of his sexual advances, because I was never in the mood.
I left the window open and he read it later on.
That day he said he stopped loving me and started thinking about divorce (about two months before he decided to leave). He slept on the couch that night but the next day we were ok again, but since then our lives together just got worse and worse.
I really don't know how to save this relationship. I thought things were getting better until he asked me to leave the house again.
I think this DBing requires a patience that I don't have. Or maybe I just don't love him that much to go through all this.
I want this to be over soon.
I think more than anything you need to take a look in your own heart and figure out how you really feel and what you really want. This is a long, slow process that can be very painful but it's also about finding who you are again and being the best person you can be, for yourself.
That day he said he stopped loving me and started thinking about divorce
That maybe what he told you but I wouldn't believe it too much. You hurt his feeling by what you said, he wanted to return the pain.
I thought things were getting better until he asked me to leave the house again.
You have to get thick skinned if you're going to do this. You can't believe what is said in anger. I've come to find with XH, when he's pissed, I let him get it all out and then later when he's calm talk to him more. That's when I find the truth. People say all kinds of things to each other that aren't real when they fight because they are in pain and they want the other person to hurt too.
You can do this if you want to. But you have to decide if this is what you really want first.
Caverna,
I really feel for you right now, it is so hard to convey in words what this does to us emotionally, physically, and mentally. You have a support system right here, there are many different walks of life on these message boards, and there is a lot of great advice from people going through similar sitchs. Finding this site has helped me, what else is helping me is trying very hard to get out of the victim energy that I have put around me. DB & DR books are also amazing if you do all the exercises and are very honest with yourself. They help you discover who you really are, who you were before all the bad stuff happens, and although it is very hard to act like you are great, day by day I see an improvement in me, when I remind myself who I was when my H fell in love with me,compared to what I have been acting like and act as if...it helps me so much, keep your eye on what your goal is, discover what makes you happy, and what you want out of life, to have a life you are happy and proud of. Although you may not feel like it right now you are in complete control of yourself and your future, what baby steps can you make to feel good about yourself today?
-HTBH
Thanks for the words Hope. It's funny that for the last two days, two friends, my mom, you and even my H asked me the same question: what I want out of life? It's a very hard question to answer. Right now I just want to curl up somewhere and hide. I'm far from thinking goals for myself. I just need someone to hold me.
One thing I forgot to mention was that my H said: "you seemed to be doing so well for the last two weeks. I thought you were healing." I told him that once he asked me to move out I went back to my old ways.
He said I should stay in the house, then.
He kept talking about how depressed he is and how hard has been lately; that he just wants to give up sometimes and wants to be alone.
Said that doesn't want to be with anybody that serious ever again, but when I mentioned divorce he was busy and had to go.
First - unless it's what you really want, DO NOT bring up D with your H! Your H seems to be going through the same thing mine is. Not sure what he wants, depressed, wants to be alone. It sucks for us and them. Try to keep in mind, even though you are hurting, they are too. It's hard to keep that in your mind when they act like jerks, but they are. Just try to validate his feelings when he talks to you, even if you disagree with what he's saying or his reasoning behind it. It will help him feel safer with you and he'll start opening up even more.
Hopeful, I have to thank you because I was ready to do something really stupid today, but you are right: I DON'T want the big D.
I love that this web site exists.
I decided to go for the LRT. What do you think?
I think you should continue DBing in the general way for a while longer. You were seeing baby steps. That's a good thing. If you go back and DB like you were before the fight, it will take time, most likely longer than it did the when you first started, but you'll see them again. I've always looked at the LRT as just that, a last ditch effort. I don't thing you're there yet. DB for a month. Record what happens. If things are getting worse or not changing at all, then maybe consider the LRT. But you have to give DBing a realy whole hearted shot first. I think you have enough there still to make it work. I really do.
Thank you so much, hopeful. Your words truly inspire me.
Yesterday my H said he needed to be alone (again). When I asked him if it would bother him if I saw other people, he said that if I was happy, he would be happy for me. I asked if he would be jealous at all and he said no.
My H used to be the most insecure and jealous men in the world.
Is he playing a game or could he really mean it???
Ignore him. If you want to save your M then I wouldn't suggest dating right now. I know with my XH, I don't believe most of what he tells me. They are only concerned with themselves and their happiness right now. Work on setting some goals for yourself and GAL. Give him some space. And no more R talks!
Good and strange news: even after big fight and MAJOR setback by begging him once more to take me back, I put myself quickly back on the 180's track and went for a party last night.
He came by to walk the dog in the afternoon and today I found out he was there until midnight, probably wondering where I was.
Today I decided to not go online and see what happened. By 3pm he called just to check up on me. I called back, we talked for 10 minutes and he kept asking me questions about my life. I was very brief and said I had to go. He mentioned he was at the house until 12pm and asked about the party.
THAT IS SO AWESOME!!!!
Good for you and keep it up!
Found a few links that were helpful to me, so I thought I would share them with you. You've most likely already seen them, but just in case. I hope they help you understand a little more of what's going on.
posts from other boards A letter from Shirley For New DBers Reading Material Do and Don'ts
WOW!! Thannks hopeful!!
It's wonderful to know that so many of us are in the same shoes and survived the rollercoaster!
One more for you:
RECIPE FOR SUCCESS
My H left the house about two months ago, but now wants to come back and is pretty much asking me to leave. We had a fight and he agreed to let me stay there until we decide what to do. However, since I decided to go with LRT, would it be a better idea for me to move out so he doesn't have much control of where I am and what I am doing?
I was offline all day (very much a 180) again and when I get home, whose car is in the driveway? I went straight to take a shower (another 180 for my "hanging around to see what he had to say"). Once I came downstairs he was friendly w/ questions about my life. He decided to clean the dog's ears (a process that takes time) while I watched TV. I went upstairs to fold some clothes and he came shortly after. He asked what my schedule was for tomorrow and for me to call after I see a doctor.
I need help figuring out one mystery: He has been leaving his clothes here (he changes from work clothes to gym clothes to walk the dog) for the last two days. I had asked him a million times to do it when I was just doing 180's (because I do my laundry anyway and I know he never does his - I was trying to be nice) and he said that he rather take them with him. Now he is leaving them here. I am seeing too much in this?
First, don't move out. If he wants out, fine, don't make it easier on him by leaving unless you really can't afford to stay. But make that a last resort.
Second, to get excited or not. I see a lot of possitives in your sitch. When things happen that make you excited or happy, that's good, but try not to let anything he does get you too high or too low. They change hourly. So yes, maybe it's a good thing or maybe he's just being lazy. Don't try to figure it out. Just keep going the way you are. He's sticking around more, so something must be working!
Hopeful, I decided to go a little dim after the fight. I am not calling anymore, nor staying online. I wonder if I am playing TOO hard to get?
I don't think you are. Let him miss you. That's important. When he does contact you, answer every other time and return every other call. That sort of thing. Remember you're busy GAL. Let him wonder. If he's calling, coming over, asking what's going on, those are good things. If he didn't care about you or thought you'd moved on or something, he wouldn't put forth the effort. Just don't be cold and don't completely stop communicating with him.
This is what happened yesterday: I didn't call him after seeing a doctor (I didn't go) and didn't get online all day.
When I got home the dog wasn't here, so I thought, he took the dog to the park, like he usually does. I went out and the dog was still not here when I came back. So he took it with him for the night, something he has never done before and his folks hate dogs. The last time he took the dog till late, I call wondering where he was.
Could he be doing this to get my attention? And is it a good response to LRT?
The house feels very empty in this rainy day... Nothing to do and nothing on TV... I'm almost calling him. Any advice?
Watch movies, journal, read...play the scenario in your head of what will happen if you do call...will it bring you closer to him and your goals?I totally understand how you feel, it is torture to not call, everytime that I end up calling I regret it right away...be strong!
After the fight I went dark and realized that was not helping anything. I asked myself the question: is what I am doing bringing him closer? And the asnwer was no.
I had an insight yesterday and today my attitude is a little different. I realized that everytime I hit a crossroad, something good comes out of something bad. From that, I decided to not be afraid anymore. I believe that if we are to be together, I shouldn't have to worry.
So an interesting thing happened today.
H came by to drop off the dog and was very cold and had an angry look on his face. I asked what was wrong. The answer, of course, nothing.
I broke DB rules and asked him what we were going to do about us. He answered saying that he had to go to the gym...
I told him he always had something to do whenever I brought up the subject.
To make a long story short. He started the conversation with his arms crossed, standing up and saying how horrible I was, that I never loved him and never appreciated him, and that he was traumatized with women and relationships. The relationship is over and the quicker we can end it, the better. The fight we had made him realize that.
Half way through the conversation he was sitting on the floor and was listening more than talking. He was saying then that I shouldn't beat myself up for taking all the blame and that he had never had a R like ours because he had never trusted anyone like he trusted me, but trust is not enough, he said. He was also saying things like, "you never know... we could end up together."
End of conversation: he stands up to give me a hug while I cry. He doesn't let the hug go and gets a hard on...
What's different from this conversation from the other ones we have had is that for the first time I told him that I don't want to divorce him, but was ready to let it go if it was his wish. And for the first time I actually believed my words.
*hugs* Everyone has to do what's right for them and if something isn't working, then change it. I know I've done things in the past that really didn't go along with the "rules" but had a good result. I'm glad yours did.
Please don't have anymore R talks with your H unless he starts them. Look at it this way, when you have them most of it is him telling you what's wrong with you. If he's doing that, then it's wasting time that you can be using to show him what's right with you. Why give him a chance to think about the bad things? It won't help your sitch any. I know it's hard not to want to talk about that huge thing that you feel looming over you all the time. I know it too well. But I promise this is the best advice I can give you!
Hope you had a good weekend!
I lost track of DBing and I need help.
My H doesn't get online anymore, maybe to punish me for last week. Today he was supposed to walk the dog after work. I got off earlier and came home with the hopes to see him. Two hours passed and he didn't come. I have a feeling that he saw my car outside and didn't feel like coming in. So I called him pretending I was calling to tell him he didn't need to come. Of course he didn't answer the cell phone (he never does nowadays and I know he does that to people he doesn't want to talk with) and I left a message saying that it was childish of his part not to answer his cell phone when I called. He still hasn't called.
It's so strange that a few weeks ago everything was going so well. What should I do? How do I go back in track?
I left H one of those Hallmark cards (Between you and me) that said something about being sorry. I wrote a short paragraph (contrary to my lengthy letters): "Please forgive me. I want to make things better. Love, M"
I left the card under the dog's leash.
When I came back home (at 9pm) the dog was still not here.
I find an interesting pattern that whenever things are improving, or seem to be improving, he takes the dog a little longer than usual so when he brings him back, it coincides with the time I am getting home.
It's funny how now everytime I get home and I see the dog here, something bad is up and the reverse also happens.
He thanked for the card and set very close to me on the couch to show me his new cell phone. He took a picture of me with it.
We talked for a little while and he complained about his job. Said he was very tired and didn't have much sleep (he is sleeping in his brother's room and his brother never sleeps).
I said, "why don't you sleep here?" He thought for a second, but said no. I proposed for either one of us to sleep on the couch and offered a massage. His response was, "another time."
He was much sweeter and thanked me for cleaning his clothes.
By the way, hopeful said once I shouldn't read too much into the fact that he is leaving his clother here, but I can's help but notice that his pile of clothes is getting bigger and bigger. He is not taking them with him anymore. He used to make a point to show me he was not leaving ANYTHING here. Now he only takes a belt.
Any comments?
Hi Caverna.
How are things?
I have read through your situation. It sounds like he is getting closer.. If he is leaving his clothes with you it sounds like he is feeler safer and more comfortable being around you. Be careful not to put pressure on him.Those cards can be kind of 'heavy'.... Maybe if he is bringing the dog back later at the moment YOU should be a little later. That should make him think!!
How are things today?
Pink
Actually, I think that bringing the dog later is a good sign.
He used to just walk the dog and leave around 7pm. I get home at 9pm, so now he is "finding things to do with the dog until then." I personally think he is finding excuses to run into me. Like I have said in other posts, his behavior contradicts what he says, so I go with the behavior.
I'm doing fine today. Thanks, Pink!
H got online several times during the day. All the times I remained quiet, waiting for HIM to start talking. So he did a couple of times. Finally, at the end of the day he asked me what time I'd be home. I told him 8pm and asked why. He said, "just curious... I might be there then."
8pm came and he wasn't here. I did a very dumb non-DBing thing and called him. He said he was a few minutes away.
When he showed up we sat on the couch just chichating and bsing and he started complaining about his back.
I offered to stretch him (I'm a personal trainer) because I know how to crack his back. Afterwards I offered a massage and did it for almost an hour.
I asked, joking, if he needed anything else to feel relaxed. He started laughing so I knew what it meant...
No, we didn't ML. It was more like a "happy ending" massage and aftewards we laid on the bed for a little while, just playing with the dog.
It's as if we communicate through the dog. In the awkward moments, we bring out his toys to avoid looking at each other's face.
Anyway, he was very thankful for the whole thing and hugged me before he left. Called me "honey" by "mistake" again.
I offered for him to sleep here, since he has been so tired, and he still refuses, but I have a feeling I am breaking him.
*hugs* this is wonderful, but don't let it get you to excited. It hurts a lot more when they pull away if you do.
XH and I would use movies and tv shows (Our fav to watch together was Six Feet Under on HBO) to help with those times when we wanted to be together but it was uncomfortable. Using the dog is a good medium too.
You're doing great my friend. Hang in there.
you're right. I should continue with what I am doing... without going too crazy and inviting him out, things like that. Thanks hopeful!
H didn't say hello online today. I didn't either. I wonder if he is trying to hide his feelings or maybe slow things down a bit, or not let me put my hopes up, or is expecting ME to say hello first.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH!
I'm going nuts!
Quote:
H didn't say hello online today. I didn't either. I wonder if he is trying to hide his feelings or maybe slow things down a bit, or not let me put my hopes up, or is expecting ME to say hello first.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH!
I'm going nuts!
He'll call you when he is ready...just let it go...find someone to call or post here and just let it out!!
Take it one day at a time. Today he has not called. There is tomorrow. You will be just fine.
Sounds like a great evening. You sound like you got so close.
Kepp up the good DBing. You seem to be cracking it ;o)
Pink.
Hi caverna,
Why don't you 'shake it up' now. Pull back a 'bit'. Stretch the rubber band.........come home an hour or two later than you usually do.
Do NOT tell him where you were. Don't cave.
Sage, I am doing that NOW. I had one more of those fights when we talk about the R and he tells me he doesn't want us to be a couple anymore... I don't know why I do this to myself... it's like I am sick or something. My more of the same just doesn't sink in.
So this is what I did today: he normally comes to pick up the dog at lunch time on saturdays, so around 11am I took it to the dog park and stayed there until 2pm (while reading "getting through to the man you love" - how appropriate; I was reading the part of dog training, lol). When I got home he was here changing the oil of his car. He had a puzzled look on his face. I went inside the house and chaged into gym closes to go rollerblading. I heard him coming into the kitchen. I would normally come downstairs and interact with him, but I didn't.
So when I came downstairs I just said "I'll see you later". When I drove off, I saw through the review mirror that he was standing in the middle of the driveway looking at me leave. I can't really tell what that look meant, but he seemed a little annoyed.
When I came back from rollerblading, I expected him to be gone, but he was still here. I went inside through the other door. Again, he came inside for a second, but I didn't go see him.
Watching him from the window, I could see that his buddy was telling jokes and laughing, but he wasn't really responding. He was very serious.
A friend of mine showed up and he started cleaning his car. I don't know if he saw my friend pull up, but probably heard us inside watching TV and chatting, so he left without saying goodbye. He does things like that when I pull away, as if to get my attention, but I won't backslide this time. I have nothing to lose.
I called H to tell him I was taking the dog to a park, in case he had plans to pick him up (I woke him up and he seemed annoyed). He asked me when I'd be back and I told him I had no idea, but probably 2pm. I went to the park and back and waited until 1:30 to leave the house, so he wouldn't find me here. At 1:45 he called my cell. I didn't answer and he didn't leave a message. He also called the house. Didn't leave a message. I got home at 3pm and he was already gone (that was my intention), but his towel in the bathroom was soaked, so he took the time to take a shower here.
Does anyone think that what I am doing (not being available, always "be gone") is a bad idea?
sgctxok
What do you say when your H (in my case) asks where have you been or where are you going if come home late. I don't want to lie..but want to add a little mystery.
Pink
Hi Caverna.
I don't think it's a bad idea to be unavailable. I would worry if I did that (grabbed clothes and left etc) that I would seem moody. I really dont want to seem moody (its a 180...)
What do you say if he says why were you so long? Where did you dash off to?
Pink.
P.S It might be a good idea to be home some times ... just make sure in those times you are fun to arouns happy etc. (I see how that part of DBing works..)
What I am trying to do is this: he knows that I will be home at a certain time, so I want him to realize that I might not be there and if he wants to see me, he would have to track me down. That's why I leave the house when I know he is coming over. Am I acting crazy? Or does it make sense?
you are *so* not crazy...it does make sense. I like the idea and will be doing it myself, but doesn't he question you? Didn't he ask you why you were in a big hurry and didn't stay to have a chat etc?
Pink
Does anyone think that what I am doing (not being available, always "be gone") is a bad idea?
I think that "always" being gone might just backfire on you at some time in the future. If he "never" gets rewarded for positive behaviour, then he won't know when he's doing something right.
It sounds like what you've been doing has been working to a degree, but don't get stuck there. Maybe set a goal on how to step things up a notch, how to achieve the next small step in your ultimate goal, and work with that for awhile.
What would you like to see happen next, within the next week or two?
Hi caverna, and pink (and JJ my good friend!!!!)
Caverna....what I pick up that you are doing is thinking that you are not pursuing....but you are offering him things like backrubs and stretching....and from the things you said....it sounds like he does know when you will be in. So I might not be understanding. But keep a calendar with a schedule that only you can see and really mark down what you are doing and the response you get each time.
Don't ALWAYS be unavailable...but don't be predictable. If you aren't ....
JJ is right.....the LRT is for last resort. A jumpstart. NOT for longterm. You have to know how to go back in. So when he's coming around, you don't make him offers.....but give him 'wins' as JJ says. Let him 'win' bits of you.
first..... let him win a small amount of your time.
then larger amounts.
let him win smiles from you.
let him seek out the backrubs. sometimes you give it.
sometimes you wish you could but you just don't have time.
until he's fully engaged.
pink.......it's an excellent question that you ask. be vague. not direct. Oh....I was just running late. Oh I just got tied up talking with some friends. Oh....just had to run an errand. Not a complete lie. Not the complete truth.
DON'T BORE THEM WITH THE DETAILS. It eases their mind, and you DON'T want it eased. Exception: if he's going to be abusive with that answer. Then do whatever.
But if you want him interested.....don't give all the details. It will take awhile. He won't like it. We all fall into that trap....but it won't serve you.
btw....sage is the Other moderator!!!
Haha... I like this one Jamesjohn. It's the same adive my dog trainer gave me for my puppy.
Quote:
"If he "never" gets rewarded for positive behaviour, then he won't know when he's doing something right."
Just thought it might give everyone a little laugh.
So, are men really like dogs. I know I have seen some beg for a treat ) Oh well... it's bedtime now on the East Coast.
A wonderful evening to all!
Warm Regards,
Ali
A got the weirdest reaction from H today.
I had just finished reading a part of "getting through to the man you love" that talks about expecting miracles and how would you react if one happen to your relationship...
So, here I was, minding my own business, falling asleep as I watched "pretty woman" for the 50th time.
I wake up with H coming home to bring back the dog. I glance at the watch and it's 1am.
Since I am half asleep I forget that we have been separated for 3 months and I greet him as if nothing had happened.
He sits on the couch and starts saying he is sorry.
I ask, "sorry for what?"
He says for everything and I think he is crying. He can't be, I think.
Then he starts talking about the fact that now there are signs along our side walk prohibiting parking and wants me to come to the window behind him and check it out.
I see and go back to my previous couch spot (later on I realized he just wanted me to approach him physically).
So I'm continuing to watch the movie/fall asleep when all of a sudden he takes off his shoes and gets in a spooning position behind me.
I ask him what's wrong and he is crying and saying he is sorry over and over again. I ask if he wants to talk and he shakes his head.
I just hold his hand.
Finally I turn around and he keeps caressing my hair and trying to ML. I tell him I am not on the pill anymore, so he stops.
He is still crying and saying he is sorry for hurting me so much, that he still cares a lot about me and just doesn't know what to do.
I just listened (big 180 - would usually force him to talk more and cry along).
He takes me to bed and covers me. Now he is gone. He was still crying.
Don't know what to make of it. Any comments?
Here is an e-mail I wrote him this morning:
Just wanted to let you know that I appreciated how
sweet you were last night. It's very important to me
to know that you care. Thank you.
H did the "dog trick" last night again, meaning, he returned the dog when he knew I'd be home in order to run into me.
I was watching TV and he kept hovering around trying to strike up conversations (ps: I didn't get online). I didn't look much at him; was paying more attention to the TV. He kept staring at me.
Finally he said, "thank you for the e-mail." (I don't know why - thanks for thanking him???)
Anyway, I said I was greatful because I thought he didn't give a sh... He said he did, talked a little bit more and finally left very slowly.
I hate that he can come and see me anytime he wants. From now on I won't be home if the dog isn't here; or I will go to bed.
I just feel like he never gets to really think about us, because he keeps coming back, trying to reach me; which is a good thing, but he doesn't do more than that. I feel that if we really had some distance, especially initiated by me, that he would have more to think about and wonder more about us.
All I can say is, WOW to LRT.
I am keeping my resolve not to get online so I am not available to talk when he wants to.
HOWEVER, he keeps doing the "dog trick" so he runs into me at the end of the day. So I did something different: I went to bed instead of waiting for him as I usually do by watching TV, and I locked the door of the bedroom.
He came home and walked around the house silently (I heard him) and finally decided to knock on my door. I did a good job pretending I was asleep and opened the door. He asked me, puzzled, what time I had gone to bed (since I never go before 12pm - it was 11:30).
He laid in bed next to me very close and didn't say much as I yawned. All he did was stare at me and my face as we talked about our day. Some long silenees happened, all the while he kept staring at me, as if he wanted to say something, but didn't know how.
I asked what was wrong and of course, nothing.
I pretended being sleepy and he said, "I guess I should go" and gave me a long, sensual hug (I let it go first). I was about to turn off the light, but he turned around and wrassled with the dog on the floor for a little bit. Then he laid on the floor and we talked some more.
Then he said, "I guess I will see you tomorrow? Same place? Same time?" and I just said, "sure," and turned off the light.
PS: I invited some girlfriends to come by tomorrow night, so I guess it's another 180.
Caverna,
WOW! Although I am new to dbing I have to say that I have been going through this with my H for 2 years back and forth. Congratulations on keeping your resolve and having so much value for yourself. One thing my DB coach said to me which made so much sense to me (and which I have made many mistakes doing) is don't rescue him. It sounds like his curiosity is growing and he is having to deal with his feelings around that. Your ability to not rescue him - to ease his fears is great. I feel very strongly that it is important for them to deal directly with what they are going through and make decisions based on their own realizations. Again, congratulations - present and pull back.
You are right. It's tempting trying to "help" them. I know my H is depressed and everyone tells me I should tell him to see a doctor. Maybe I will. But the problem is, I don't want him to see a doctor because that might fix him and bring him back. No. I want him to decide for himself. I think trying to help him is another pursuing method.
What do you guys think?
Well well, H said yesterday that he was coming over today, so when I got home I saw the dog here and knew he was trying to push my bottons. He also took more clothes with him.
Then I made a decision:
I called him (and he seemed happy w/ the phone call) and asked him not to come visit anymore and to tell me when he would be over so we wouldn't run into each other. I told him he was too confusing and that I needed space. He was very quiet and seemed angry. When I said bye, he hang up without saying anything. Was it too bad?
Is that what you really want is not to see him?
What is your goal?
No, it's not what I want. But I also don't want to deal with the constant rejection. He comes around, shows some affection, but as soon as I pull away, he gets angry, and if I am present, that doesn't really change things and it is as if he is taking me for granted.
I just want to live my life without wondering how he is going to be today, if loving or weird, if he is going to show up, if he will leave signs around the house that he is mad or not, if what I see him doing are positive things or not, if he is going out at night, things like that.
I'd rather not know. It seems like our interactions got a a bit unhealthy in the sense that he is playing a little game. If I don't give him attention, he does something cruel to get it. (and I am stupid to let him have it)
THAT I don't understand. It shows that he cares enough to try to get my attention, but don't care enough to reconsider the M. So I want to break this dynamic. I don't want him to feel empowered to play with my feelings and control my life and attitude like he has.
I feel he is having a hard time letting go and is probably thinking about reconsidering the M, but I don't think it helps if we keep interacting. At least, it hasn't. There are too many mixed messages and he seems to react negatively to my letting go, but as I said, when I stick around and behave nicely, that makes him cold.
I need some time for myself. I haven't regreted this request so much YET, but I am just too tired to live my life in constant expectation. I want to concentrate on GAL without worrying if it's going to piss him off. I want to go out, meet new people, maybe even date again, without worrying if he is going to get all weird every time I go out or do something "single."
I understand your feelings, he puts you in a reactive mode.
If he calls, just tell him you want him to call first, that it's unnerving for him to just walk in on you.
Don't let him make you reactive, or you will stay stuck.
It's ok and very good to set some boundaries. Do them pleasantly, if you can.
Sometimes if you're just reactive you shut the door, especially if it becomes a pattern.
He loves you, so I'm sure he will be back. Just set limits, but let him know the door is open for contact (just not open to walk in whenever he wants).
Why do you think he loves me??
Oh yeah!
You are in a better position than a lot of people here.
So work it girl!
Do you love him?
I do, but I feel like everything I do gets a weird response from him.
Hi Caverna.
Sorry I haven't posted, I lost your thread. (found it now)
From what I can read your h sounds scared... scared of how much he loves you maybe? scared to get too close. What was his family upbringing like? Did he have a stable, good childhood etc? I can see problems from my M are linked to my H's childhood. Your H sounds very much like mine
..getting close and pulling away. He wants to be close yet pulls away as it is too scary. I have set bounderies for my H telling him things he cannot do such as touch me and hug me and talk about certain things with me. It's not for him or our relationship I have done this but for me. His little games were driving me crazy. They had to stop. I have not seen him to see how it will work out as he is out of town till next week; but e-mails are more frequent and frendlier. I think it has made him feel safer and more secure having me tell him what to do...
Does that mean I have gone down the fixing route...I am trying to avoid that too.
Pink
sgctxok
Thanks forthe advice about what to say when going mysterious etc. I am one of these people that give all the details of what I have done throughout the day so this will be a huge 180 for me.
Thanks again
Pink
I had to ask him for the mail key and got online for that. We ended up having a long talk/fight and he went back to saying that everything was MY fault, that I wasted our R away (still don't know what I did that was so bad). I accused him of using me sexually and he said it wasn't that at all, that he missed being intimate. Then he went on to talk about the D and wants to meet to talk about a settlement. It's not like he is cool with all this. He is very bitter and angry. I don't understand.
When I ask him why he was coming over and crying, he said he was having mixed feelings and agrees that there's something wrong in his head. I finally told him to see a doctor, that he was depressed. He didn't say anything in return.
After he said everything was my fault, he got offline, in mid-conversation. I called him later saying that if we are to meet this weekend to talk about D, we should meet in a public place since at home all we do is fight and blame each other and I don't want that to happen. I ended up crying on the message.
He hasn't returned the call.
I am so tired. I am so tired of crying and trying to figure him out. I tired of being blamed for everything and feel so bad. I am so sad but so ready for the D. I don't need this. I have a motto that we should eliminate negative people of our lives, and he is pretty negative.
Hi caverna!
At this point, I'm not quite sure what to say about your situation. I may have missed it in one of your previous postings, but I can't recall what your goals were for your relationship. If you could briefly list them for us again, maybe we'll be able to see what you might be able to do to help get things back on track for you.
Goals?
Well, I want him to pursue me and stop talking about the D. I want him to drop the subject.
I want him to pursue me
What will it look like when he starts to pursue you? What will he be saying, and what will he be doing?
On a "pursuit scale" of 1 to 10, with 1 being absolutey no pursuit from him at all, and 10 being him lavishing you with all of the pursuit you want, where would you say you're at right now? What would be something he could do that could move that number up a step, even a half step?
stop talking about the D. I want him to drop the subject.
When are the times that he's most likely to talk about the D? What's happening just before the subject is brought up? What is he doing, and what are you doing?
When are the D talks less intense, and/or maybe don't last as long?
What's going on when the D talks don't happen at all?
Quote:
What will it look like when he starts to pursue you? What will he be saying, and what will he be doing?
He will call me more often. Will come by the house more often. Will ask about my day and will try to get more intimate.
Quote:
On a "pursuit scale" of 1 to 10, with 1 being absolutey no pursuit from him at all, and 10 being him lavishing you with all of the pursuit you want, where would you say you're at right now? What would be something he could do that could move that number up a step, even a half step?
Up until Tuesday it was a four, but I think I massed it up by asking him not to come by. To step it up he would ask me out or try to pin me down by calling and asking where I am.
Quote:
When are the times that he's most likely to talk about the D? What's happening just before the subject is brought up? What is he doing, and what are you doing?
Well, usually we are discussing the R and we are making accusations to each other.
Quote:
When are the D talks less intense, and/or maybe don't last as long?
When I am nice to him and sweet. When I say I don't want to get divorced. When I asked for forgiveness.
Quote:
What's going on when the D talks don't happen at all?
I am not talking about the R. We run into each other and just talk about daily things.
But how do I fix this mess now?
But how do I fix this mess now?"Right now", I'm not sure if you should do anything. Kind of a "when in doubt, do nothing" situation. I'd probably give it 24 hours or so, and see what happens.
Also, sometimes our energy and efforts are better spent focusing on our future actions, instead of trying to "fix" something that's already happened. Your earlier post held some good clues about some what does and doesn't work, and some good starts to goals that can be worked on!
I have to run right now, but look some of those things over, and see if there are any things you want to add, and/or break down into smaller, more doable steps.
Hang in there, my dear! Time can be your friend, and not your enemy!! (It's that darn patience thing again!!
)
Caverna,
I have been through this very often. Just when things started getting better and H was more responsive he would always do something like take something else from the house. Or he would call the next day and talk about splitting things up. Throughout the last two years I have learned that he did these things to try to get things back to being comfortable for him to walk away. My experience has been that H thinks he knows me and H thinks things won't change so when they do he subconciously tries to push them back to the way they were - I don't think H knows he is doing it. So now during the final months I work really hard and doing 180s and realizing what he is trying to do. When these things happen I get out a notebook and write it all down without calling him. I ask myself what I want to do to bring us closer (even though a lot of times I am pissed). And it helps me to not pick up the phone and say WTF - I thought things were better. It does sound like your H is confused. When things get better he tries to recreate the badness so he can be more comfortable. I loved JJ's comments. Try to take the focus off of him and trying to understand him. Focus on what YOU want to accomplish. Nothing you did was stupid. It just may be something that hasn't worked and now you have great times ahead to do things that do work.
My dad always says you can't make sense of nonsense that is why they call it - No - Sense.
Thanks butterfly!
I hope things are well with you.
I came home today and saw the little "non-verbal" communications left by H: our photos together are all facing down and the ones of him standing alone are gone. There was one frame that had a baby picture of me next to a baby picture of him. He took his away.
Why do that???
Just because I asked for space?????? I don't get it.
Then he came to drop off the dog and didn't come into the house (which I was actually glad).
I'm trying to understand the psychology of this: why is he being mean to me when I am the one hurting and after I said I was sorry??? Why does he insist pushing my bottoms??? If he doesn't want to be married, why not just divorce and be more cordial in the process?
Caverna,
I obviously don't know your husband. I can only speak about what I have gone through. You won't be able to understand the psychology behind it because it's not where you are. I know for you it must feel like he is being mean. That is what it felt for me also. But just like we would like them to understand what we are going through try to detach and think of how angry he may be at himself for being so confused. No one likes themselves when they hurt other people. Don't get me wrong. It's hard to have sympathy for someone else when it feels like you and your feelings are being ignored. The thing is you can't understand it. You won't understand it and by trying you are causing yourself suffering.
My guess is that if he knew how to not push your buttons he wouldn't. But the way we relate becomes a habit and we yearn for what is comfortable. You being so detached wasn't comfortable for him because it made him doubt himself. He was probably trying to get it back to a place (subconciously, not intentionally) where he didn't feel so crazy. My H says all the time - Maybe I am just crazy. And imagine feeling that way? We know what we want. We are committed to another person. They are all over the place. Although it may not feel good right now you are in a better place because you are confident in knowing what you want.
In each moment you have I have learned to slow down and look at where he is coming from and what is habit and what is not. And if it seems just like craziness then I know I have the ability to not participate and just say OK.
Example: As you know I am LRT. It has been a week in a 1/2 since I have been working on GAL. H has contacted me every day for the past 3 days with "reasons." And I haven't really been "sharing" much about me. Well tonight he wrote and said he was sorry, he had been busy at work and he was coming to get the rest of his stuff next week. Normally I would write back with a sad face. Or I would say are you really sure this is what you want? But I see what the habits have been and I am not going to contribute to them because I am coming from a place of certainty.
What is one thing you can plan for just you tomorrow? I read once that there are 3 businesses. Your business, God's business and someone elses business. When you try to figure out your H's motives and actions - you are minding his business. When you are feeling frustrated that you are where you are in your life and that things aren't fair - that is God's business. What can you do to focus on your business. When you mind others business yours is left unattended and it gets lonely and neglected. So when you feel overwhelmed ask yourself whose business are you in? Most of the time it's someone elses.
thanks butterfly.
I was talking to my mother exactly about that yesterday and I just read a chapter about the same ideas in the book "getting through to the men you love."
It talks about the fact that men will try to irk you with comments or actions when they feel overwhelmed and don't know what to say.
They also know how we are going to react to it so, you are right, the best solution is to ignore those things, break the habit of reacting our old ways.
I'm going to work on not going crazy when he does things to push my buttoms, cause that's what he wants.
I don't have any advice for you right now. Just wanted to let you know I was still here and thinking about you.
Hi caverna
The "button pushing" scenario is so common in our close relationships, especially in times of anger, stress, and confusion. Seems like we know exactly what to do to get things going! Also, it's so often that we do it ourselves, without even realizing it. Just a habit, I guess, and it's often difficult to really pinpoint "who started it"!! It can, however, usually be changed by one person.
Here's a thread with some input from others that might help a bit.
Pushing the "positive" button!
I like the link. It got me thinking...
About the fact that he has been blaming me for everything: should I point out to him where he was at fault to show him that I couldn't possibly have done everything myself??
Example: he claims that I just didn't want to have sex with him. What he doesn't seem to remember was that since the beggining of the relationship, I complained about him smoking pot and how that affected our sex life (the smell just killed the mood) and evetually I stopped wanting to kiss him and initiate anything. Should I tell him that??
should I point out to him where he was at fault to show him that I couldn't possibly have done everything myself??
Right now, do you think that this will bring you closer to, or drive you farther away from, your goal of....
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He will call me more often. Will come by the house more often. Will ask about my day and will try to get more intimate.
thanks jj. It's so good to have you here. I'm totally disoriented. It's like you put a mirror on my face.
How about rephrasing the feelings into "I" statements C? Something like "I'm much more interested in loving you when you smell good/don't smell like pot?" The incentive thing that men respond to far better than what they perceive to be "nagging" (Yeah, we're overly sensitive trolls...
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I think you already get the idea but just remember that at this point, the blame game isn't going to help anything. I think that kind of stuff would be the thing to talk about if you can get into counseling. Where you can sit down in front of a counselor and say "THIS bothers me" and the counselor can be the "mediator" to keep things on the right level and not escalate into a screaming match.
I'm kind of confused about something you said....you had said that you had to set those boundaries, not letting him just come over and stuff...but then when you stated your goals, your goal was to have him DO those things, come over more often and stuff....so are you pushing him away. It seems like telling him not to do those things is the opposite of your 180....you should just act like those things don't matter at this point, you don't care if he comes or goes because he is not important to you right now.
I've found that the 180 technique is working VERY well for my situation, while he has not moved home yet or anything, he definately shows more signs of wanting to linger and call for no reason.
Anyway...I enjoy reading, well enjoy is not the right word....but i like to read about what is going on with you because it seems very positive and I hope you guys can work this out.
well, everyone is saying that there are a lot of positives on my stitch but I don't see it this way, especially when he wants to meet to discusse a settlement (he hasn't called to discuss that yet).
You are right, though, Becca. I am being a little ambiguous. I should have let him pursue me instead of telling him to give me space. It was after asking him for space that he went back to talking about the D. How do I fix that now?
I feel like I am begging people to go out so I don't stay home alone. My family lives far away and during the marriage I didn't develop strong friendships, so I am having to do it now. I moved here because of H. He already had a group of friends and his family lives here. So my social life was his social life.
I don't want to be needy with people, but I end up behaving that way. How do I curb this loneliness without appearing needy???
Does anyone else spend nights alone?
Volunteer. Don't put yourself at risk but you get back more than you put in. Women and kids shelters.
Since you are a personal trainer maybe a running club or a swimming club. Large churches often have activities. I sometimes avoided them when i was single your age cause I got the "where is your wife" questions.
Become an EMT. take a class and Vol or work on an Ambulance.
If you are worried about deportation look into the Navy Reserves. The weekend drills are not the greatest howver this and the Coast Guard are the least apt to be depolyed to Iraq. We had several folks using this to gain their citizenship. I feel they really earned it.
I'm 1000 mi away from Family. What I do
Work. (self employed at home telecommute)
Busy rescue nights I just got the Fire Dept
Once a Month I patch up Marines in the reserves
Once in a while I drive to Ms and work with the Katrina victims. Then at night i work telecommuting.
Sometimes i get real sad but I just do them sad then i'm not so sad.
Best Wishes
Wow... what a question. I am learning how to be alone now that my ex is out of the house. I truly believe it is good to learn. You need to learn to like yourself to spend time alone with yourself! That was the hardest part for me.
I still try to get out a lot, and often find myself calling friends or family to find things to do. I hope you are lucky enough to have a good support system.
Don't worry caverna. You'll be ok. I have read your posts, and my one piece of advice would be to start doing things for yourself. Don't do what you think is best to get him back, or what is best for your H. Make it all about you. Maybe with time, he will realize his mistake. Maybe with time, he won't. Maybe with time, it will no longer matter so much, because you will be ok with or without him.
It took me 6 months to realize that. I'm going on 7 months since my ex left. For the first 6, I analyzed everything I did or said. Would this bring him closer or not, etc? It drove me crazy! Now, I make each day about me and my D4, and things are slowly becoming sane again. I am still willing to work on the relationship if and when he does come home. But, I will not give up my life waiting for something that may or may not happen!
Take care,
Ali
thanks alli and swimmer.
You are both right.
I thought about volunteering a thousand times, I just thought I wouldn't have time in my day to train for the fire department. I will go to the fire department tomorrow and find out what I really need to do and for the EMT too. I think it's a great idea.
Alli, I will try doing things for me. Like you, everything I do, even going out, is with my head on his reactions. What will he think if I do this or that, go this place or that place? So, I see now that this is really silly. I am wasting my life away thinking about what he would think.
Swimmer, I just got my application to the rescue squat!
It's something I always wanted to do but never pursued because it would have robbed time away from H and he would complain. So here I am! The EMT classes only start in the Spring but I can join now and help.
Thanks!
I have been dark now for three days.
I have asked H for space, meaning, if he had to pick up the dog, to call me beforehand and let me know, so I wouldn't be here. However, he got really angry with my request (even though he says he understands) and actually didn't come to get the dog this weekend at all (and I know how important the dog is for him).
This space has been great for me. I haven't cryed in almost 48 hours, which is a HUGE progress. However, should I remain quiet? Should I wait for him to initiate contact?
Of course I know the answer for that, but I'd still like to hear some reinforcements.
I have been dark now for three days.
I have asked H for space, meaning, if he had to pick up the dog, to call me beforehand and let me know, so I wouldn't be here. However, he got really angry with my request (even though he says he understands) and actually didn't come to get the dog this weekend at all (and I know how important the dog is for him).
This space has been great for me. I haven't cryed in almost 48 hours, which is a HUGE progress. However, should I remain quiet? Should I wait for him to initiate contact?
Of course I know the answer for that, but I'd still like to hear some reinforcements.
carvarna
I've been Vol FF for 17+ years. Much of it was where I was first for some time in a country setting, fires in a grey iron foundry, and some urban. It prepared me well for duty in Iraq.
You will know in 6 months weather if you wish to continue or not. If not do not be embarrassed. I respect the people who help in nursing homes and state parks since their reward is very slow in coming. All service is good!
If you stay your empathy will seem to diminish but do not believe it. You are dishing out empathy in thinner slices. Whereas most folks see 2 to 4 huge tramatic events (more recently) you will see 100's and you will approach with a cool professional manner. There is nothing wrong with Dark humor here it's a relief valve.
If my butt was in a sling my best shot (outside of prayer) people who were not afraid to see horrible things and not get emotionally wrapped up rescuing me. I'd appreciate a joke from them.
If you do get into something that's rough you can talk to your buddies and if that is not satisfactory you can post to me and I'll respond with an email address. However I belive the people you work with generally are sufficient.
You get over your head emotionally best thing is to do is talk.
Best wishes. If you have any funny stories come up share em. I'm excited for you for giving it a shot. Another poster Kittyclaws has been a Paramedic and probably could give a woman's point in PreHospital and Emergency care.
Hi I been reading your story and i have to put my hand in the air and say that i am the same of your H, my wife asked on a numberous times to give her space but i tried but after a couple of days just seemed to slip, your is have a hard time trust ne I'm still there and fighting my way through the maze.
can i ask a question you may of answered but didn't see it, do you want your H back if yes what do you wnat to see change in him as thus could help me
chin up
I woke up at 6:30 am with the dog howling like crazy and I thought that we had an intruder in the house. My H was coming up the stairs and I said he scared the sh.. out of me.
(I was sleeping on the couch because I feel strange sleeping on the bed).
He promptly laid on the couch, hugged me really tight and said he had a nightmare.
I didn't say a thing.
After a while he invited me to go to bed. He changed the sheets and spooned me. The dog joined us and robbed half of the bed (the dog didn't use to sleep on the bed prior to the separation) and H said, "we will have to get a bigger bed for the three of us."
Morning came and I got up to take the dog to pee. He grabbed me as I was getting ready and we ML. I told him I didn't want to get pregnant and he said, "why not? I'm your husband."
He keeps giving me compliment after compliment and we finally kissed A LOT.
Now he is asleep and I went to have breakfast. I checked my cell phone and the house's caller ID and saw that he called throughout the night (I must had been in deep sleep).
Those are all very good news and I have to say I am really happy, but I didn't show him any of this. I am actually acting pretty non-chalant.
What do I do now?
keith, I will read your thread and see what I think.
The only change I need my H to make right now is to stop being so weird!!!
I am speachless - You must be over the moon!....
Not sure how to advise you ..maybe don't rush things or expect too much? Keep positive etc.
GOOD LUCK Pink
I wish my husband would have a bloody nightmare!!!!!
Did you ever ask him what it was about?
I personally think you are a very blessed woman, and that your perseverance has paid off.
YAY for you!!!!!!!!!!
I keep asking him what the nightmare was about, but he won't tell me.
I asked if he is here to stay and he said yes. He said that he missed me and thought that getting a D would be too nasty, and wants to give it another try.
I said in return that we have a lot to talk, but let's just leave it at that for now, that we should take one day at a time.
i will say a pray for you tonight, and for all of the people who wish they were you tonight. god bless and as you said one day at a time.
Caverna... I am so happy for you. This seems to be a step in the right direction. Just make sure your needs are being met, as well as his! Congratulations! Keep up the good work!
I knew I shouldn't get too excited with H coming home. At the end of the day he decided we should take it slow and start by just dating each other.
A side of me agrees with him. Any comments?
Caverna,
I think dating is good if you want to rebuild your R. From my past experiences I would suggest to keep detachement in mind. It is easy to not be able to really listen to H because you are looking for things (hints) on where his head is. I would really suggest to detach and think of him as a friend and that you can geniunely listen to him. Don't pressure and don't become a stepford wife either. Just listen to him. Create a space so there is room for him to be comfortable. If he feels he can't make you happy he may begin to feel like he can't do anything right. I have learned this the very hard way. Although our sitchs aren't the same I am just sharing with you, when I look back where I had been these are the things that would've made a difference. Don't attach and continue to GAL. Just my 2 cents.
becomingabutterfly is givingyou god advice. Please don't see this as a set back, just think of it as an opertunity to practise all that DBing stuff. It should be fun! Don't attach, and chase him. Let him do it as his pace. Don't always be available etc etc. But most importantly don't see this as a bad situation. I am sure he got scared getting so close to you again. - it happens.
Hope you are feeling Ok today.
Take care. Pink.
Becoming a Butterfly:
That is some of the best advice I have ever heard. Experience tells me that is the truth!
I agree with butterfly and that's what I will try to do. I already had made plans for the whole weekend so I'm not sitting around waiting for him to ask me out and I will continue to not call and get online.
Yesterday he did call late at night just to say goodnight. He actually called both phones: home and cell. I didn't hear them.
oh, by the way, he said he dreamed I was dying. Every time he talks about it, he cryes.
so H called from work asking what time I would go to work. He said he was coming home to visit in the middle of the day.
So he just passed by. We just set on the couch not really talking. He was very quiet and we watched some TV while he played with the dog. He DID kiss me on the lips before he left and said he just wanted to see me because it has been a couple of months since he came by during lunch time.
I know, I know, lots of positives, but we are kinda weird with each other, as if we don't know what to say, how to behave. Is this normal? What can I do to remedy that?
So H came home at the end of the day and was grumpy. After some inquiring he finally admitted he felt sick for the last few days because he hasn't slept, nor eaten much.
Again, crying spell...
He hugged and cryed.
I asked if he has seen a doctor yet. No.
I alked if he has been thinking about suicide. Yes.
I don't know what to do.
Caverna,
It sounds like H is wanting you to rescue him. DONT! He needs to learn to deal with what he is going through. If not he won't acquire the skills to work through hard times in the future. AGAIN, horrible mistake I made. You will want to Rescue him but what you can do is be his friend. Validate and ask him - I understand you are confused, and I am here if you need me to listen.
On one of your previous posts you said things feel weird. They do, because my guess is you are attached and operating from a space of wondering what is the right thing to do? Try to remember that your existence does not depend on what he is or isn't doing. I think that may help you not feel so weird. If you have plans - by all means keep them. But don't punish him either. If he wants to do something on the weekend, tell him you would love to but you already have plans - because you really do have plans. Tell him, if you want to do something another day let me know. GAL means really getting one and not getting one for spite. If you get into a tit for tat situation it will be a power struggle and that isn't setting up a good foundation for a new beginning. Again, Caverna - I am not an expert on Dbing, I am new to it. But I can see things from my past experiences so much clearer now that I have been dbing and detaching.
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Caverna,
It sounds like H is wanting you to rescue him. DONT! He needs to learn to deal with what he is going through. If not he won't acquire the skills to work through hard times in the future. AGAIN, horrible mistake I made. You will want to Rescue him but what you can do is be his friend. Validate and ask him - I understand you are confused, and I am here if you need me to listen.
Gosh butterfly! thats awfully harsh If my H was crying and thinking of suicide I'd want to rescue him too. I see what you're saying about him needing how to deal with it himself though. I have made similar mistakes with my H. He is TOTALLY iresponsible with money...not the same as suicidal thoughts I know...) But I keep on lending him money. I keep bailing him out, in a way I am encouraging him to be foolish with money because he always has me to fall back on. I know that but I just can't seem to stop doing it.
I suppose I feel my H should be able to rely on me.
Pink.
P.S Will read more of your situation.
I totally agree with becomingabutterfly.
We can't really save anyone. They need to save themselves.
He does need help though, especially if he is suicidal, but I believe professional help may be best in this situation.
Cavarna
Glad to see things are on the upswing.
These suggestions are from my Judgement
Good Judgement comes from experience (mostly bad)
Experience comes from bad Judgement
If you can find a group like "Marriage Encounter" and attend a weekend gathering. Make friends who are very Pro marriage.
The Prehospital and Fire Dept business is good but I would include H or go into slowly. Lot of guys who are in the Rescue business are not the most Moral as relationships go. It varies from Dept to Dept.
There is more to your story I'm sure (not my business) but did your H just crack over the possibility of other men's real or imagined advances? Years ago when I was single before I was into bodybuilding and had to go way way out of my way to ensure Husbands I'd rather eat broken glass than harm a marriage. These guys honestly thought I was going to approach their wives and they told me so.
They stated how emabrrassed they were not in the same condition some tried to outdo me in areas they were good at. It was strange cause I never wished to compete.
At the risk of being more Preachy than I am I'll offer the following stat.
1. Christian couples who get divorced 1/2
2. Christian couples who pray together daily to 3X week who get divorce 1/4000.
Got this from Promise Keepers. I did not pray with my wife so guess which column I'm in.
I'm more exicted your marriage is back on the right track though just beginning and slow than you joining a FireDept. It's great you did the right thing.
Hi Caverna,
Michele writes extensively on dealing with a depressed spouse in DR. It would be good to read that over and over again. And then to adhere to her advice.
His depression is about himself and not your relationship.
Building and growing the relationship isn't really easy during this time. Don't expect too much....yet really take stock in the positives. Just don't pressure him for more emotionally, especially. Let him work it out.
If he asks if you think he needs help, say yes....look for an opening.
Listen. Don't yak at him. (talk, but don't go on and on) Listen. Detach your ability to be happy from anything related to him.
Give him real praise when deserved, because that will encourage him.
And take excellent care of yourself.
If you sense him being suicidal, call 911.
Check out websites regarding depression / suicide -- (there are links on Newcomer's on Michele's "Welcome to DB" thread.
I have read the chapter on depression from DR and followed some guidelines.
I did write him a letter with links to web sites with tests for depression and how it occurs with men.
I also sent his parents an e-mail sharing my concerns (he is living with his parents). I asked them not to let him know I told them, but that they have noticed it themselves.
I did call him during the day to see if he slept last night and ate today - I know, too motherly - must stop that, but I am just worried.
He did say, "i'll see you later" (meaning, maybe tonight) but didn't say ILY. He seemed very sad and serious.
Now back off, completely, unless you get in an emergency situation. Let him lead.
Don't be surprised if he doesn't seem to do anything to help himself. Having delt with very serve depression myself, until you hit rock bottom (which really sucks) you have no motivation to do much to fix your situation. Just try to be there to listen when he wants to talk, other than that don't push the issue. It will just drive him further away. Hopefully he'll get help soon.
Caverna,
I somehow overlooked the last part of the email re: the suicide. What I was responding to was only that he was so sad and crying. BY all means if he is feeling suicidal that is completely different.
Pink, wasn't trying to be harsh just somehow didn't read that part.
I was strictly talking about if he was crying and feeling lost and sad and confused. That is where I was talking about not rescuing him.
Pink, you're right it is hard to do when you care about someone like your situation with money. I also, have a hard time not trying to make my H feel better when he feels confused. But I have learned huge lessons about letting him work it through because that is how he truly discovers what he wants and needs and it seems in the past my rescuing him only temporarily eases his pain.