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Moving on to the bright side part 22J - I don't know if the conversations are different but with cheerleader type maybe a little more exciting???? Those type usually has a wide circle of friends, always has some activities planned with their friends and like to go out and do things. The conversation may not be as deep but they always seem to have something exciting going on.
The DR doesn't have a wide circle, truthfully doesn't have the time, is pretty independent, and doesn't need to have a bunch of activities planned. When we are together she is very talkative and always has something to discuss about her practice that she just opened up 6 months ago but with her it is just a different type of personality.
I think for whatever reason I have usually been attracted to the very feminine girly girl. Maybe it is the protector in me or I have the male dominance thing going on which also bleeds over to the type I have been attracted to in the past with smaller women.
The Dr does have a tender side, a feminine side, and I have seen both. That said she also has no problems going out to her ranch, shooting guns, riding around on her Polaris, clearing brush, and getting her hands dirty as well. That is something different for me.
I have the male dominance thing going on which also bleeds over to the type I have been attracted to in the past with smaller women
Easy there Big Smooth1
I hear you though. Months ago I received a message from a girl who was totally my type. Long hair, slender, very feminine. As I read through her profile and I discovered she drove a tractor trailer for a living. I just couldn't do it. Shame on me.
LOL......well TBH I couldn't have done that either. Funny thing is my XW was not very confident and constantly deferred to me for everything and at the end it wore me out. She literally wanted to make no decisions but eventually I was like come on really she would literally ask me for advice or direction on most everything and eventually it wore me down to a nub. She was also very feminine.
Now I have someone who is independent and has no problems making decisions and taking charge yet I am questioning her femininity or getting used to her not being completely feminine.
Uggh………...
I guess there are different definitions of feminine. Feminine doesn’t have to be weak or indecisive and flighty or social or pink nail polish and name brand bags. But in essence, you do have to be attracted to someone as a whole. And it does take some getting used to someone new.
My ex husband was 6’4, and really smart and a perfectionist with certain things. It was hard for me to get used to someone that wasn’t as tall or as good with directions as he was. Or with someone that could not just immediatly figure something out and fix something. I knew if my ex installed the car seat it was gonna be done perfectly.
But at the same time it was nice to have someone that cared about things or had some of the qualities opposite of my ex as well.
There will never be someone that is perfect. Our exes certainly were not. We are not. If you keep looking for perfect, chances are your gonna be alone - which is preferred by many of us so not a big deal. But you also can’t be unhappy or constantly wondering about someone that has the qualities you do want either. Cause that’s not fair to anyone either.
I guess there are different definitions of feminine. Feminine doesn’t have to be weak or indecisive and flighty or social or pink nail polish and name brand bags. But in essence, you do have to be attracted to someone as a whole. And it does take some getting used to someone new.
I agree that sounds more like a stereotype. You can be feminine and be strong, know what you want and confident. I think of it as you take pride in your health and appearance. You wear more dresses then sweatpants. You are sweet and playful as opposed to bitchy and bossy. Those to me are feminine qualities. IMO sweet and playful to a man is the same as strong and confident is to a woman.
I think too that many of us are attracted to the type of person that our ex's were. Especially if we were with them for a long time, it's a pattern that we're used to. And in many cases, an unhealthy one in hindsight.
So here’s a question pertaining to feminine/masculine dynamics... who picks up the check? How do you guys that prefer more traditional feminine traits feel about the male taking on traditional masculine traits..that of provider on dates?
So here’s a question pertaining to feminine/masculine dynamics... who picks up the check? How do you guys that prefer more traditional feminine traits feel about the male taking on traditional masculine traits..that of provider on dates?
As a guy, I have absolutely no problem with picking up the check. It’s kinda understood, on my end. Also, things like getting the door for her (anyplace, really, but especially the car door if I drive her).
I agree with what all of you said. I am attracted to her but I know I am still getting used to things. After being with one person for 17 years it is definitely an adjustment.
J - I have no problems paying for things on dates and the DR allows me to do so. While it is nice when she does offer it is certainly not an expectation on my part and I don't get all fired up when she doesn't Usually she will pick up the tab on the 2nd night if we go out to dinner on B2B nights.
Truthfully I actually prefer to pay for things and it does feel a little weird when she does. I guess I am kind of old fashioned or that is just my natural male instinct.
IMO if the woman pays for the majority of things then your masculinity needs to show up in other places whether it is taking care of the family home or between the sheets.
I always pick up the check on this first date.
Definitely on the first date for sure.
What about beyond first dates? How do you guys all feel?
I feel as the man it is my responsibility to pay the majority of the time and I would never, ever ask a woman to pay. I would not turn her down if she offered but when I ask the DR out I have no expectation on my part that she does anything. That said she will usually pay for 1 night if we got out on both a Friday and Saturday night,
J,
As George Castanza would say "once in a awhile I would like to at least see them reach for the check". lol
BS,
I saw your other post. I would not classify your ex as a GG wild girl right now. Maybe when she first moved out.
What about beyond first dates? How do you guys all feel?
My own opinion and B seems happy with it is that whoever asks pays. Ginger seemed to like this idea when she wanted to spoil M a while ago. It's easy to understand, low stress and as long as everyone agrees then I think it can work well and doesn't seem patriarchal.
With that said, for the first few dates B automatically offered to split the bill and I was pleased that she did even though I said it wasn't necessary. I also thanked her for offering. It showed class IMO.
LOL....just once and a while would be nice! That said splitting checks and the woman picking up the tab too early just screams being friends. It is nice that they offer but I would never ask or accept unless we had been dating for a bit.
I brought up this question because we were defining feminine/masculine. How it plays a role in attraction and dating. And it’s something that does get a bit awkward.
So I can offer, but if the guy accepted I can honestly say I would lose attraction because it would be perceived by me as unmasculine (and cheap) And I would feel less feminine by splitting the bill. So is it a pretense to offer? And does it really make a difference? I’m also not so sure.
Do your dates typically offer? Do you guys take them up on it? Does it bother you if they don’t offer?
Guys say they would love a girl to pay but then subconsciously value her less. Like that Betty and Veronica analogy I bring up. The nicer the girl is, the less value she ends up getting - down the line. I notice that once the chase is gone the guy questions being in a relationship with her or being ready for a relationship in general.
Now I get the whole equality thing. It’s not fair to a guy, equal rights etc etc. I know people that teach their daughters to pay their portion of the bill so that they never have to feel like they owe someone something and if I had a daughter I might go in that direction as well.
But there’s still something more to having the guy pay during the courtship at least. Once in a relationship, I think there’s ways to equal things out. Paying for events or tickets, or maybe gifts.
J - I would never accept unless we had been dating for a bit. My dates do not typically offer. It does not bother me unless we have been out several times and have already had sex.
I remember when the DR first invited me in her house and we had the sex the first time. She was totally submissive, she had her shoulders slumped but had her shoulders back with her head down and made it very clear she was ready.
IMO that was all about the build up leading to that moment.
J,
As George Castanza would say "once in a awhile I would like to at least see them reach for the check".
Agreed.
With that said, for the first few dates B automatically offered to split the bill and I was pleased that she did even though I said it wasn't necessary. I also thanked her for offering. It showed class IMO.
Right. I would appreciate the offer. Shows class, which is nice, but also gratitude, which I appreciate a whole lot.
But there’s still something more to having the guy pay during the courtship at least. Once in a relationship, I think there’s ways to equal things out. Paying for events or tickets, or maybe gifts.
Correct. Just like in the courtship the man pursues the woman until she feels safe and comfortable with him. Then the woman does the majority of the pursuing.
I always expect to pay for the first date. On the second date, I appreciate if the woman offers to pay, and I'll sometimes accept. If they haven't offered to pay by the third date, that's a yellow flag for me.
One of my issues from my D is that I'm very sensitive to being taken advantage of. So after a while of them not offering to pay, I begin to wonder if they're just in it for the free food and drinks.
That said splitting checks and the woman picking up the tab too early just screams being friends.
Hadn't thought of it like that before. How do the ladies here feel about this?
Holding - I’m in agreement with LH and J. If I strongly insist on paying its cause I feel bad for the guy and am not interested. If I lightly offer and the guy takes me up on it, it will be a huge turn off. I would think he’s cheap or the type to count pennies or doesn’t like me enough to try hard and it would be a red flag. I tend to be generous and would like someone that’s the same. I would think that maybe another guy that’s insisting on paying is more interested and the safer choice. I think J’s right in that a woman will wait till after they sleep with the guy usually the 5th date to start offering? I think 2nd or 3rd date is too early. But I am sure that’s not every girl out there. I’m a little more traditional. I think there are differences between the sexes that I might not logically think is fair, but recognize it as so.
I don’t use guys for free food - ( actually I try not to eat out much cause of the health factor) - it’s more of a feeling of me being courted And establishing more traditional male/female roles which I think are evolutionary and lead to sex appeal. I’m not gonna be sexually attracted to a guy if he acts like a friend or even worse a loafer. Now if a guy doesn’t have a lot of money then I’m ok with cheaper but thoughtful dates - Like a walk somewhere nice or a free concert or even just coffee. But he should be making the plans and come prepared.
LH - I think once the relationship is established both people have to put in effort. If a girl has to do more of the pursuing she’s gonna lose interest. I did with my last BF. His passivity was considered just another negative for me and I started thinking, why am I gonna deal with his flaws if he doesn’t make effort with the positive stuff? The funny thing is when I would start to lose interest or not bother, that’s when he would start making the calls and effort. But at that point I was detached. Although what you said might be true in younger, pre divorced people that don’t have baggage or trauma or are on the alert for red flags in relationships.
LH - I think once the relationship is established both people have to put in effort. If a girl has to do more of the pursuing she’s gonna lose interest. I did with my last BF. His passivity was considered just another negative for me and I started thinking, why am I gonna deal with his flaws if he doesn’t make effort with the positive stuff?
KML - Well I am guessing that had to do mainly with the fact that you just weren't into him and he had many flaws. If you were into him and he didn't have many flaws you wouldn't mind, you would be drawn to him. I am also guessing that when he started majorly pursing you it was a big turn off right? That's why after the courtship if a man pursues a woman too much it ruins the sexual polarity of the relationship and will ultimately end it.
It's all part of the process. I think the first date I had with the DR was the cheapest and that was around $40 when we met for drinks. 95% of the other times I have spent between $100 and $150 for our dates. The most expensive was around $200 when we went out to a wine bar and got a nice bottle of wine.
I have never asked her to pay, suggested she pay or even hinted I had any concerns. When she has paid she will usually tell the waiter ahead of time to give her the tab.
If you don't have a lot of money and you can only afford Chili's or Applebee's most women will not go for that. There is a certain expectation with most of the ladies. A walk in the park is nice etc. but eventually it will catch up with him. Just like showing up driving some old rickety car.
It's all part of your presentation.
J. There are a lot of cheaper activities. I’m not saying a guy with young kids needs to wine and dine someone. That’s not sustaining. The ultimate goal is to get to know someone. I would actually prefer hiking, walking on the boardwalk at the beach, an arboretum, a museum over an expensive restaurant. The expensive restaurants are more of a once in a while thing. I agree with not going to chili’s and Applebee’s though. But that can be replace with a local cafe or cute breakfast place.
LH19 - If I’m exclusive with a guy it’s cause I like him, so if he pursues me (flowers, home made lunch to take to work, texts, initiating dates or outings ) it makes me feel good and I want to reciprocate. If it turns into a situation where he stops doing that nice stuff - I start to detach. I wonder if I was wrong to be exclusive with him. I question whether i want to put in effort and not get any return.
Everybody has flaws that you’re gonna have to deal with. if a guy is doing nice things for me and makes me feel good I reciprocate and his flaws don’t seem so bad. I liked my ex bf but then I noticed he wasn’t making much effort for me. not like he did in the beginning. He was passively letting me do all the initiating and that didn’t feel so great. On top of that his negativity and jabs bothered me and there was absolutely no reason for me to stay or even want to work it out. had he been doing more, I would have thought “he said he’s willing to work on it. Let me give it a try too and work on not taking what he says so seriously. Work in communicating with him ASAP. “ but he had stopped all the good stuff he did in the beginning so I just felt like why bother at this point? He’s not only rude to me, he does nothing good for me.
There is a certain expectation with most of the ladies. A walk in the park is nice etc. but eventually it will catch up with him. Just like showing up driving some old rickety car.
LOL - 2010 Toyota Corolla here with 517,000 km on it and a dent on the passenger side front fender.
Window shopping and walking slowly hand in hand can be a lot of fun and brunch is one of my favourite meals.
I think you guys spend too much time reading books and being coached about Da Rulz
LH19 - If I’m exclusive with a guy it’s cause I like him, so if he pursues me (flowers, home made lunch to take to work, texts, initiating dates or outings ) it makes me feel good and I want to reciprocate. If it turns into a situation where he stops doing that nice stuff - I start to detach. I wonder if I was wrong to be exclusive with him. I question whether i want to put in effort and not get any return.
JuJu - A man should always initiate dates and outings and send flowers when appropriate. He should not text her more then she does him. It will become a big turn off.
Again you go from me talking about a woman pursuing more then a man LATER on in the relationship to him not doing any nice stuff and no effort at all. Do you see where you guys embellish everything?
Again you go from me talking about a woman pursuing more then a man LATER on in the relationship to him not doing any nice stuff and no effort at all. Do you see where you guys embellish everything?
Mmm... no. I do not really see where I am embellishing. I too am referring to LATER on in the relationship. So not really getting you.
From what I understand, you said that “ the man pursues the woman until she feels safe and comfortable with him. Then the woman does the majority of the pursuing”
My response was that if i have to do the majority of the pursuing later on in the relationship, I’m not gonna want to be in the relationship”
Dang if I have to drop a c-note or more per date I might as quit before I get started. I mean my only dating experience was my XW way back in high school and the dates we did in college or as a married date nights, but I never remembering it costing that much.
I would actually prefer hiking, walking on the boardwalk at the beach, an arboretum, a museum over an expensive restaurant. The expensive restaurants are more of a once in a while thing. I agree with not going to chili’s and Applebee’s though. But that can be replace with a local cafe or cute breakfast place.
J - All great date ideas but eventually you are going out to dinner and if you have kids chances are your time is limited depending on your schedule so you might only have evenings free the majority of the time. Saturday night the DR and I are going out. She has her kid and I have mine but we have made arrangements and our Sat night is free. I have not seen her since Sunday morning so a local café or cute breakfast place won't cut it. Granted we could just go hang at someone's house or do something else but we haven't seen each other all week.
Sat night will probably cost me $125 by the time we have drinks and dinner. A couple of $15 to $20 dollar entrees, with $20 to $30 in drinks assuming no dessert, salads, appetizers, etc. is going to put me pretty close. The amount of drinks also depends on how expensive her glasses of wine are. She could easily spend $20 herself with the 2 glasses she normally drinks.
Agreed you can do things to minimize but dating is expensive.
I would also add that it's part of setting the mood as well. You go out, nice dinner, valet the ride, sit close to one another, have a few drinks, your holding hands, touching, kissing, etc. It's the build up, setting the tone for when you get home and you get your freak on.
It's also fun being out on the town, kid free, no worries.
Ha... funny you mention the car. Not dating right now but when I think about it... I’m like hmmmm ... I should probably get a new one.... mine is not impressing anyone. Though I could get a nice one something just always says spend it on something else. I’m not sure if I my car would be a turn off or not or if the gal carers that much about my car then that is a sign. Meh maybe my next one will be nice... I’m in a much different place now. Just found it funny you mentioned because it enters my mind a lot haha!
P - You don't need to drive a Lambo or anything of the sort. It also depends on how hard you are looking to roll...you know????? I have a 2017 Highlander nothing fancy but it is new. When I get rid of it next year I will be getting something older, more miles but tasteful. Like a used BWM, an older Land Rover or something like that.
I don't want someone that is money hungry either or is all about what you drive/the material things. Again though it is all relative to the situation you are in and what you are looking to do. Your expectations, the type of person you are and what you want to attract, etc.
Everyone is certainly different and has different expectations, etc.
J. That is a lot of money. Especially if you are paying child support and have your kids for equal custodial time. Is this something you can sustain? I do not think it’s realistic for a woman to expect that every weekend. Although, Dr. does seem to contribute and takes turns and you said she’s ok with more affordable options. Im wondering if you are putting a lot of pressure on yourself ? Like what’s wrong with a bottle of wine and pizza and movie night mixed in?
I’m personally, a bit relieved when a guy does not have a luxury car. it makes me feel like he’s not about showing off but about financial responsibility which is a bit more appealing to me (then again my ex drives luxury cars yet depleted his IRA - so I am biased)
J..I certainly could not afford to do it every weekend both fri and sat nights. This Sat is the only time this weekend and during the week, next week, I will only see her when her kid goes to bed. If we do see each other on a fri and sat night then that second night will usually be some low key option.
Any way you slice it dating is expensive.
I am lucky to live below my means and am not a fancy person that needs a bunch of luxury things in my life. I would actually have a different car right now if I could but I agree to take the car in the D because I made more than the xw and she couldn't afford the payments. It's a lease and it will.be up next year.
Dating is expensive and I guess there is a lot of pressure put on you guys. You want to impress, it does work with women. No doubt. But how fair is it ?
If I get a sense that the guy has good intentions - I’m gonna make sure to try to keep his expenses down. Thanks for your input J.
The cost and the expectations are all relative to where you are in life. What kind of job you have, etc. Imo you can date down but it is very hard to date up. If you are a burger flipper at Wendy's your prob not going to date a Lawyer. So to me it is all relative to your situation.
There is definitely pressure and I think that is where a lot of men struggle because they dont feel that they are good enough based on how they look, the money they make, the car they drive, their living conditions, etc. Couple that with the child support they pay which generally goes to the wife makes their financial situation even worse.
Apparently my standards are way too low but I prefer to think I am practical and realistic. I personally think that upwards of $125 for dinner is crazy. I would be fine with some place like Applebee’s. For Sparky’s 50th birthday, we went to a fancy place in Memphis that cost me $140. (Note I said it cost me, his birthday was my treat. While I consider myself relatively old-fashioned and traditional, I’m all for paying for my fair share of dates and I don’t think my offering early on is friendzoning, it’s practical, but I digress.), but that was a special occasion. I’m all for inexpensive places though, even when just dating. I would never, even in a relationship, expect someone to drop $100+ on a meal for me. In fact, I would feel bad about it. The last meal Sparky and I ate out was pizza we ordered from a local place.
I would imagine it also depends on your priorities. Some people would say it's worth the investment for the potential R or whatever your end goal is. Some would not, or that value would be much lower. I dunno, I would rather spend a c-note per week on my kids or invested towards my purpose.
I'm not saying what you are doing isn't worth it J9, because it clearly is for you and the proof is in the pudding with you and the Dr. Different strokes for different folks.
lol I got referenced in this conversation but it wasn't me that made the comment!
I may not be your average bird but I value thoughtfulness in a date. A well thought out picnic in the park would impress me more than an expensive dinner out.
I'll confess, after dating some broke guys, I was on the lookout for signs that CMM was financially stable. He drove a nice car and took me to a nice restaurant on our first date. Turns out though he just still has champagne tastes from his days of making good money even though he ought to be more frugal now. I don't recommend you overspend to impress a woman - she'll figure it out eventually.
It doesnt have to do with priorities for me it's just how I am wired. I also dont consider spending $100 on a date overly expensive either. Heck me and my 2 daughters cant get out of chilis for less then $50 usually. Again it is all relative.
I am all for pizza, beer and chill on the couch but when your still in the courting phase where you are going out more than your staying in your gonna have to go out. I live in a large Metro area as well where there are options so depending on where you live that could factor in as well.
The major wining and dining is not sustainable. With kids, mortgages, bills, etc. I pay about half of the time, he pays about half of the time, once in a blue moon we have a $150 date, but otherwise, around $75-100 once a week. I love cooking for my man and cuddling on the couch. Sometimes we just hit the local pub and grab a beer and an app. Or have our yoga date ( $19 drop in fee) in the summer, we both like the outdoors, so fishing, hiking, kayaking, etc.
I never split the bill. Taking turns is much more “intimate” and I find splitting is very friend zone.
And on the car thing. I tend to date guys with pick up trucks. It’s weird. But that guy with ED who lost his sales job ( which he wasn’t making much money in because they fired him because he stunk at it) lived in a small one bedroom apartment but had a new camaro. The fact that he made little money and then made none and had a flashy car bothered me a little. But that was his choice where he wanted to spend his money. But he had no kids, so his priorities are not congruent with mine.
There should be a budget for dates that works into ones personal personal budget. I’m not going to spend a $100 on a date and feel bad because I didn’t spend it on my kid. That’s mom’s budget for her fun. But if I’m going nuts and my kid is suffering, that’s not right.
Balance. We all need balance.
It’s so funny, there is always this social media debate about women who were not happy with the size of their engagement ring.
And the people who would like a decent ring get slammed saying it’s about love, etc.
I don’t agree. Like the broke guy who has a nice car. I think if a woman would love her engagement ring to be decent, and it’s not going to break the bank, she is t being selfish. It’s important to her. Sure, someone we could all drive beater cars but we would rather have nice ones if we can afford it right?
Sometimes we have to consider what is important to the other person and not judge them for it.
I dont split either and we have done low key dates like hooking up at her place after her son goes to bed so it is not all about wining and dining. When we do go out though it seems to be around $100.
Again it is a struggle for a lot of men especially those that pay CS which is usually the vast majority.
It doesnt have to do with priorities for me it's just how I am wired. I also dont consider spending $100 on a date overly expensive either. Heck me and my 2 daughters cant get out of chilis for less then $50 usually. Again it is all relative.
I am all for pizza, beer and chill on the couch but when your still in the courting phase where you are going out more than your staying in your gonna have to go out. I live in a large Metro area as well where there are options so depending on where you live that could factor in as well.
Like I said, I guess my standards are lower or something. I just don’t want that fancy dinner lifestyle. And I get your point about being comfy in a relationship vs. courting but early in our dating, we did the pizza and movie nights at home. I’m just very low maintenance and I don’t like the whole wining and dining thing. I’m like kml, I’m more impressed by a picnic in the park than a fancy dinner. But that’s me. And everyone is different.
I think where we live does factor in. I live in a relatively small town (less than 7500), but Sparky lives in a tiny town (700 ish). I live in a town that has 2 colleges, so during the school year, our population nearly doubles. We have some pretty decent places to eat and a good selection of fast food. We live about 30 minutes from one of the most popular tourist destinations in this region (which is SUPER busy right now, smack in the middle of horse racing season) and we live about 45 minutes from the largest city in the state, so having choices isn’t a factor, if you don’t mind driving a bit.
After reading back through some of the recent posts, I guess what I’ve come to realize is that it isn’t necessarily that my standards are lower, they are just different. Not saying those who like nice, expensive things are wrong, it is just different. I’m a good, decent person. I’m educated and professional with a good job and decent income. Financial stability is important to me. I think it may be more driven by how I was raised than current choices. I was raised on a farm and we worked A LOT. Occasionally, my dad would load everyone up and we’d go spend the day at the creek or the lake and play in the water and picnic. Once a month or so, he’d take us to a locally owned pizza place and we’d have pizza and play video games and he and mom would have a pitcher of beer or two. And in the cooler parts of the year, instead of swimming, we’d go bowling or just hang out at home and play games or go for walks or whatever. Those are some of my happiest memories because they were focused on quality family time. I love that quality time.
To Ginger’s point about the engagement ring, I do think women are sometimes ungrateful with what they receive because their expectations are so high. Again, I’m not saying those who prefer big honking diamonds that could choke a horse are wrong, I’m just saying if they are dating someone who isn’t loaded, the likelihood of receiving a horse choker is much lower. My engagement ring is a square cut garnet surrounded by tiny diamond chips and I LOVE it!!!!! It is beautiful, special, unique and I love it because it was hand-selected by the person I love with my jewelry taste in mind. I’m not a flashy diamond kinda girl. Garnet is my birthstone, my favorite gem and our first date was in January so it ties our worlds together in my eyes. But, again, to each his own. Some women would hate my ring but I love it.
LOL - This is turning back in to the dating after divorce thread again.
Currency differences aside - our muskrat pelts and pemmican don't buy as much as the American greenbacks for the same $ value - but $100 for a reasonably nice roadhouse dinner with a couple of drinks on each side is certainly the norm here. I could go easily double that for a really nice place.
I'm fortunate in some ways perhaps that B hardly drinks. One small glass of Zinfandel and she's tipsy - or "that's what she said". I recall going out with CL and the bar tab alone was roughly $100. One other lady - and it was the last date I asked her out on - the bar tab was double that. With that said, dinner with B on Wednesday was slightly over $100 - she had one drink, I had two and it was in support of a local charity. So it's all good.
I'm with the gals on this one - and not just because I'm a cheap Scotsman by ancestry. I'm financially solvent - easily proven despite my beat up car and shabby but neat house. It's fairly obvious with a good but not over the top wardrobe and some nice things around me that I value quality and don't mind spending for it. But I'd prefer a nice brunch and spending the afternoon together any day. I'll often thank the person I am with for - as Cadet would say - the gift of their time.
It's tough I suppose for those with young kids to get out for anything other than an evening date which necessarily adds to the cost and makes creating that quality time together tough.
From my point of view - when I would take anyone out - I want them to see who "I" am on a regular basis. A guy who likes his eggs over-easy and wandering around flea markets. The time I would prefer to spend with someone should be both intimate and sustainable especially since for me, I'm looking for someone for the long term.
But again - I'm a rebel and anyone who won't take me for who I am on an average day - I don't want in my life. I don't usually eat in upscale restaurants. I'd rather be making Jack_Three_Beans' chicken Marsala in my home kitchen. I am still trying to find a pretty apron that fits a big guy though.
Each to their own though. We each have different priorities, means, likes and goals. What I like and am comfortable with certainly isn't for everyone. There is no one answer or set of rules IMO.
The town I grew up in had 3500 people so low key and cheap has no issues with me. Maybe it has something to do with the women in Dallas or just the environment itself.
I remember coming across a few Bio's on the OLD dating sites where the women specifically mentioned that if you can't afford to take me out because of all the Child Support you pay to your XW please kindly don't message me. Granted that was the exception but I think the majority of the women around here expect something more.
Dawn you just might be a Unicorn
The town I grew up in had 3500 people so low key and cheap has no issues with me. Maybe it has something to do with the women in Dallas or just the environment itself.
I remember coming across a few Bio's on the OLD dating sites where the women specifically mentioned that if you can't afford to take me out because of all the Child Support you pay to your XW please kindly don't message me. Granted that was the exception but I think the majority of the women around here expect something more.
Dawn you just might be a Unicorn
Well, some women are just b!tches. I would never tell a guy to choose taking me on expensive dates over paying for HIS children. Don’t even get me started on child support but that isn’t the point. I think some women are just very entitled. I’m not. I just don’t feel good about someone spending a lot of money on me with dates. Sparky and I, from the beginning, have taken turns paying for things. He paid for the first 2 dates and then we started alternating. If we do something big, we split the cost. Like when we went to see KISS, I paid for the tickets and he paid for the hotel room. I bought lunch, he bought supper. We are very much equal partners in this deal. Everyone is different and has different expectations and I get that.
I may be a unicorn or I may just be weird as h3ll....not sure. Lol
I think a lot are entitled TBH or are looking for someone to take them on trips and live the lifestyle.
Anyway the DR and I are going out tomorrow night for our weekly date. We both have our kids this week but have made arrangements to be kid free tomorrow night. Her son is spending the night with her mom and my girls are spending the night at a family friends house.
I will say it is kind of weird going almost a week not seeing each other. Even though we text and talk on the phone daily it is hard to maintain that physical connection.
I have also noticed she has started to talk about her son more. This morning she made the comment that it was his 1/2 birthday today and he wanted to go to a park and do something. She has not directly asked me about my thoughts on when I felt that our kids should meet but she will bring things up like that. I am not sure if she is hinting around and wanting me to take bite or they are just innocent comments. Either way I am at work until 5ish this afternoon so I wouldn't be available until later anyway however I do feel that the conversation is going to happen some time soon.
So when I say there has been no serious conversations about anything yet it has to do with our kids as well. At some point I would think she will directly bring up and ask what my thoughts are.
I really have no problems with my Daughters meeting her as I know she would be a good role model and positive influence. I think it also helps that they have met my XW's BF as well so they should be more comfortable with it due to this fact. Since she does have a son that is 7 though I could see the kids potentially getting attached to each other which is a different element that my XW deals with since her BF's kids are in college.
Either way I still think it is too early for all of this to happen but I just get the feeling it is very much on her radar.
J- I understand that you feel she would be a positive influence on your daughters. But that isn’t the reason why it is suggested to wait 6 months. It has to do with attachment. Unless you are sure you want to make this long term, I wouldn’t do it.
When I met exNG’s daughter we clicked immediately. When we broke up, she would cry to her mom she misses me and wants to “walk to NJ “ and come see me. She was almost 7 at the time. My daughter really liked him too and she took a little hit with it, not as hard as his daughter. We shouldn’t have done it as our relationship was never really in steady ground.
Just because it’s on her radar doesn’t mean it’s skmetjing you have to do
I get it but there are no guarantees with any of it to me hold off as long as you can and hope the other person is on the same page.
There are no guarantees , but trust me, you want to at least have the odds WAY in your favor.
But I didn’t really listen at first, and I’m sure you’ll do what you’ll do. But if I can help prevent someone from rushing into that with my experiences, I will shire as heck try.
Well I guess it is a moot point anyway since I am not ready for all of that to happen and if she asks I will be honest with her.
Date tonight with the Dr. Going somewhere local since we are getting a late start. She referred to herself today as my girlfriend so I guess that is a done deal. I didn't correct her or say anything to contradict so I guess I am now in my first port D relationship!!
Needless to say not sure how I should feel but it is different than 20 years ago when I was young, kid free and care free. I don't feel all emotionally spun up, that I need to see her every waking hour of every waking day and am hanging on her every word. That said I do feel extremely and fortunate that our paths did cross. She is a good mom, a good person, is stable, obviously has a good career, no ex husband drama and I could go on so etc. etc.
That said it is scary and as Andrew said sometimes I feel as though I am way over my head and other times I feel really good about it. I get anxious/nervous before I see her but after we are out and I have had a couple of drinks I am able to relax and enjoy myself.
But that isn’t the reason why it is suggested to wait 6 months. It has to do with attachment. Unless you are sure you want to make this long term, I wouldn’t do it.
This is so important to keep in mind. My ex basically introduced the kids to the new squeeze very early on with the explanation that they both wanted to see how each would interact with each other's kids. If that didn't work, then there was no point in pursuing the relationship. I find that absolutely bizarre. The real reason I presume is that this allowed them to spend more time with each other and they wanted this out of the way.
The kids are getting the short-shrift here and both of them are basically giving priority over what they want to do over what's good for the kids. Unfortunately, I have no say over this but all I can do is be the strong rock for my kids and make sure they're okay.
My exW has zero patience with anything and I figured that after our separation and all of that she would've taken time to reflect on her behaviors and patterns, but that is sadly not the case. She is steamrolling through this new relationship and this guy seems to be good to go along - which again makes me question whether he's done any internal work from his previous marriage. I am just amazed that neither of them did a basic google search on what's the best way to introduce a new partner to young kids. It's full of advice on waiting and making sure that there is something long term to minimize attachment issues.
Anyways, it's really fascinating to see this from the outside and I have now seen him a couple of times as he came to some of the kids activities. I figured it would happen because my exW was gung-ho about me meeting him. Again zero patience and so I knew that this was the real reason behind it - she wanted to bring him around more and more. I didn't skip a beat emotionally as I knew it was going to happen and I know how to handle myself. Also wanted to make sure that I was being a good role model for my kids.
Thanks for letting me threadjack a little bit J, but just wanted to respond to this discussion as it's such an important one.
So how did it go meeting him?
I still have not met my xw bf yet. When I dropped the girls off yday my youngest asked her mom if he was there when I walked them to the front door. She said yes but I could tell that it was awkward for her to say it and he was upstairs so he didnt come down or make himself available for me to meet him. I just assume when she is ready I will. He has also still not been to any kid activities yet and it has been over a year.
It was totally fine meeting him. I was anxious about the meet, but then I told myself that I was going to meet 'The Rock' and so he was going to be superior to me in every aspect of life. That thought process made me relaxed and just be myself. Very fascinating to see the type of guy she's dating. Made me realize so clearly that neither of them have done enough soul searching and the internal work to do this dating business. He does understand his place and is respectful about that, which is good to see. The words that comes to my mind when I think of him is 'safe'. Definitely no alpha vibe from him and I believe exW wants to be with someone where she can feel she is better than him, and someone that is just grateful to be in a relationship.
Anyways, just few of my impressions so far. I bet he is also getting love bombed as my W has no patience and is clearly in the limerence stage. Both of them need attention and they're getting it from each other - so maybe that works out. How it will be in the long run, I have no idea.
My exW is so not who I want to be with and hasn't done much work to address her issues, which makes her even further unattractive.
It's interesting your exW hasn't brought her bf to meet you. I feel like both our ex's are so very similar in how they've done some things. Maybe he's scared of meeting good ol' tall J.
Good to hear that it went well for you. I really almost want to say something to her about it, like tell her it's ok if she wants to. But she doesnt need my permission and I dont want to assume it's about me either so I just assume she will bring it up when she is ready. Until then I guess he will stay upstairs when I drop the girls off.😁
Yeah. Enough time has passed. It's in her court now basically. I mean you can also bring it up if you want, but it seems like you're doing good with it and he's not done anything that would concern you.
Getting back to the Dr. - It looks like you have some healthy skepticism about how things are going and you're in no rush to speed things up. Also looks like you connect on a lotta levels, but maybe that deeper level is still to be explored. I can see that you like her quite a bit, and I wonder when that shifts to being 'in love' with someone.
The girls have never mentioned him 2 me one time. My 9 yr old has a phone and can reach me any time she wants so between that and some mutual family friends that they spend a lot of time with I assume if there were any issues they would have come up by now.
I would agree with your summary on the dr. I feel myself getting closer to her, opening up more, and becoming more vulnerable but it has been a slow roll. I am starting to feel less anxiety but it is still there. To her credit she is not rushing things either and I dont feel her pressuring me as well. I am not sure when the love kicks in, i guess it depends on the person. The big difference between her and me is that she was not the LBS so I assume of you are the one that wanted out it might come earlier or you feel more open to it.
I do feel like i can get there but it will come slower for me.
Just to add though that all this is essentially because I am scared which I think is causing me to fight my feelings. The DR. is not someone that wants to casually date, she wants a R and I also assume MR at some point (I say that but don't read into it that I am thinking that). Knowing what she wants is what the scary part is as she has never portrayed herself as someone that just wants to hook up, casually date or go out a couple of times and fade to black.
Truthfully it's about everything I could ever want which is why I think it scares the hell out of me. I could write out a list of what I like but I will spare you the details. So I get some pretty good anxiety before I meet her especially if it has been a few days but then once we are together for an hour or so and I feel like I am connected back with her it goes away and I have fun. Even though we chat throughout the day via text and usually one call at night going 5 or 6 days without seeing is challenging.
I spent the night at her place on Saturday night so I woke up with her Sunday morning and then I saw her at the gym for an hour or so yesterday as well. She said I could come over last night after her son went to bed but I declined as I was tired (I don't sleep good at her place), it was the first night I didn't have my girls in a week and I just wanted some peace and quiet, plus I just spent the night with her the day before (had sex multiple times) so I was just wanting to go to bed early so I could get up for the gym this morning. Maybe that made her mad IDK but I just didn't want to so I will see her on Wednesday. The old J probably would have sucked it up though and went over but I wasn't feeling it so I did what I wanted to do. Truthfully I am really glad that I am not all spun up and can remain objective.
Finally I will say that it is not easy transitioning from being hard wired to 1 person for 17 years to being open and getting used to someone that is completely different. Different in how they walk, how they look, how they talk, the sounds they make in bed, what they like, their quirks, etc. etc. etc. I am a analyzer and a thinker though so it could just be hard on me based on how I am wired.
Hey there J9 - I think we are in a very similar situation these days.
I am not sure when the love kicks in, i guess it depends on the person. The big difference between her and me is that she was not the LBS so I assume of you are the one that wanted out it might come earlier or you feel more open to it.
I do feel like i can get there but it will come slower for me.
It's certainly not something you want to force or fake. For me, it's something that I feel growing inside me each time we're together or when we talk. It ebbs and flows. I do know that B is feeling it very strongly or at least so it seems and like your Dr she was the one that walked out on her terms. Trusting so much that you can release those feelings I think is tough for you and I and is certainly part of my own issue.
Finally I will say that it is not easy transitioning from being hard wired to 1 person for 17 years to being open and getting used to someone that is completely different. Different in how they walk, how they look, how they talk, the sounds they make in bed, what they like, their quirks, etc. etc. etc. I am a analyzer and a thinker though so it could just be hard on me based on how I am wired.
Funny this. I was married for 10 years more than you. B went to great lengths this past weekend to say that we need to learn each other and then smelled my hair for a while. I don't think that I've ever dissapointed her but I've certainly surprised her as we learn about each other. She's also been very clear that she is not looking to replace my ex nor me her's but make something new. One very wise thing she said as well was that in time that I won't even be able to remember those little things you mention about my ex and she's right. I have to really reach for that and it's mostly not there - but again - I've been alone for longer than you as well.
A....we are on the same journey I agree. Ebb and flow is very accurate. I feel the same way about the DR. I am drawn to her, think about her very often and the DR is feeling very strongly about me as well. I feel the feelings slowly release but it is taking me some time. I am very nervous at first when we initially meet up but once we are out and about I feel more comfortable and then after we are together for several hours it is very easy.
The DR and I have really not had many deep conversations so she has not said anything wise to me like that. I credit the board with helping me process my emotions, realizing they are only temporary, and understanding that while I have not been with my XW in almost 2 years it is a process. I am finding myself starting to reach for those memories but some memories are still there. I guess I just need to be patient with myself and I am extremely grateful that the dr has been patient with me. She has not pushed me 1 bit and has only recently brought up her being my girlfriend. So far she has played it perfectly.
I would like to move out of the questioning my feelings phase of the R into the I no longer question how I am feeling. The thing is I know I like her and enjoy spending time with her however I am still stuck in the ebb and flow. I would also love to show up and not be nervous, I would love to get out of my head and not let those feelings override my excitement and joy.
So yes A I feel you!!
I really almost want to say something to her about it, like tell her it's ok if she wants to. But she doesnt need my permission and I dont want to assume it's about me either so I just assume she will bring it up when she is ready. Until then I guess he will stay upstairs when I drop the girls off.😁
Maybe I'm not remembering this accurately - something I've been noticing has been happening more and more lately, I'm guessing from my head injury from 10 years ago (I'm watching it so no medical advice is need) anyhow if I'm correct did you not tell your ex W you DO NOT want to hear ANYTHING about BF - or something close to that statement? I thought you did and if you did, to me it's obvious she is trying to honor that for you. Again, if correct, I think it's difficult for her and perhaps not fair to the kids as I'm betting she told them, don't talk about BF to daddy.
If I'm correct, I think you really do need to reassure her that at this point it's okay. It is what it is and ex W aside, I think it would be easier on your kids. Absent of you telling her not to bring him up she would not need your permission but she sorta does now - unless I'm totally wrong about this having been said by you, in which case place another mark in the checkbox of the TBI awerness monitor.
You are right DH I did tell her that about a year ago. I guess I just assumed she would have revisited it with me if she really wanted him to be around.
Well so far we have not been able to find the time to do normal stuff during the day. Her son is 7 and she has him mon-fri so that rules out anything during the week outside of me going over to her place after he goes to bed. Since I dont have my girls this week I did go meet her at the gym last night for some cardio but she had to get home because of her son.
I did have a convo last night with my xw about bringing her bf around. I told her that I didn't have an issue with it and obviously he is a part of their lives. The way she responded indicated that I was not the reason and something else was going on which is why he doesn't come around. Anyway she said thank you for telling her what I did. So the door is open now if I was the reason why but it doesnt sound like I am.
Well so far we have not been able to find the time to do normal stuff during the day. Her son is 7 and she has him mon-fri so that rules out anything during the week outside of me going over to her place after he goes to bed. Since I dont have my girls this week I did go meet her at the gym last night for some cardio but she had to get home because of her son.
At the risk of getting totally flamed and bashed by the entire DB board, I'm just going to ask the question that keeps popping into my mind over the past week in reading your posts. Let me say, before I ask, that I'm NOT surprised that the Dr. referred to herself as your girlfriend without so much as a conversation. I said before that I didn't think that there would necessarily be some huge R talk. I'm not saying there won't ever be one, because if it does get super serious and start down the marriage road, of course y'all will talk, but to get to the exclusive "girlfriend/boyfriend" stage didn't seem to require a talk. Maybe I'm weird or wrong or different, but I think sometimes we (in general) get too wrapped up in having these serious talks when it may or may not be beneficial.
So, now that I wandered off the garden path, here is the question......you keep referring to doing "normal" (what the h3ll is "normal" anyway) stuff and how y'all don't have time to do it and all you do have time for is going to her house for "indoor Olympics" and other such colorful phrases. Why can't you just go to her house after her son goes to bed and just sit and talk or watch a movie or play cards or listen to music or cook a late dinner together or whatever else strikes your fancy? Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying sex isn't a good way to spend time. An active sex life is a BIG part of a relationship. But, sometimes your posts sound kind of like that is really all y'all have in common....that you love sex. Again, not a bad thing because it is fun and I get that y'all are in the early stages of your relationship so sex is an even bigger part of it than usual, but it doesn't have to JUST be about sex. I know you have mentioned the Dr. was in a sexless marriage and even said you feel like she's making up for lost time, so to speak, and all of that is fine if it is what works for you. I'm sure I'm assuming and mind-reading, but it is almost like, sometimes, your posts seem a little melancholy that going over for a late night bedroom visit is all you have time for. So, take it out of the bedroom and make it about something else.
Someone said to you in a post in the last few days (Ginger, I think) that dating now is very different from dating in your late teens and 20's. And, it is likely even more different for people like me and Andrew who are a little farther down the road in terms of years walking this Earth, but dates don't have to be a production. They can just be about quality time with each other and quality time doesn't even mean you have to DO anything other than be present with and for each other. Now, again, if y'all just want them to be about sex, then just disregard this entire post and roll on, but if you truly want to do "normal" things, then just do them with what time you do have. Sparky and I have a great time just sitting and talking and I don't necessarily know that we have "deep" talks, but we can talk for hours about any number of topics. We had a lengthy conversation recently about gardening, prompted by a question his mother asked him to ask me. Sure, we go to concerts and go to movies and go on actual "dates", but we also just hang out and watch movies at home or go for walks. We are about to start working in the yard because I have some stuff I want to get done and he offered to help when I was talking about it. I'm sure everything is much more difficult when you have relatively young children in the mix. I never had that particular issue. I seriously dated a guy one time who had sole custody of his young daughter so it was either do things that included her or not date him pretty much and so much of our time together was kid-centered and it was fun. Y'all are not at the kid-centered stage yet, I understand, so you have to fit stuff in when and where you can.
And now that I have totally written a book on your thread, let me make it a little longer by saying this about your dilemma the other day about if the Dr. was mad at you because you didn't want to go over to her house the other night after her son went to bed. If she was truly mad about that, she is very selfish and that should be a red flag to you. It says that she thinks her time is valuable, but yours isn't. You were honest with her about why you didn't want to come and that should be enough. If she was just disappointed because she wanted to spend time with you but was understanding that you wanted a little "down time", then that is a whole other thing. Mad and disappointed are two entirely different things. Just my two cents.........................
Well there was no official talk but it was obvious she wanted to classify it, put a label on it and it was her idea to weed that into a texting conversation.
On the other I think part of it is the newness of the R. No we don't have to engage in sex every time but during the week when her son goes to bed at 7:30 and arrive at 8 we only have about 1.5 hours to just hang. We could spend it watching shows or just hanging out so I get the point. The weekend we went to her Ranch was really fun which was the first time we did something different outside of the dinner, drinks, and sex. This was clear some brush,. shoot some guns, dinner, drinks, watch the sunset, and sex!
Our weekend schedules are now off as this is my off weekend but she has her son. They won't be aligned again until the end of April.
She ended up not being mad about me not going over so that was a non-issue.
Well there was no official talk but it was obvious she wanted to classify it, put a label on it and it was her idea to weed that into a texting conversation.
On the other I think part of it is the newness of the R. No we don't have to engage in sex every time but during the week when her son goes to bed at 7:30 and arrive at 8 we only have about 1.5 hours to just hang. We could spend it watching shows or just hanging out so I get the point. The weekend we went to her Ranch was really fun which was the first time we did something different outside of the dinner, drinks, and sex. This was clear some brush,. shoot some guns, dinner, drinks, watch the sunset, and sex!
Our weekend schedules are now off as this is my off weekend but she has her son. They won't be aligned again until the end of April.
She ended up not being mad about me not going over so that was a non-issue.
I keep telling Sparky some weekend, I'm going to take him to my dad's to help work cows. He said I'm so romantic. LOL There is something to be said for that kind of thing, though, and it was such a HUGE part of my childhood that I need someone who can jump in there and help still because my dad isn't getting any younger and at some point, all that he has will be ours and we will have to do all the work.
That's right D....find out what S is made of! I don't mind getting my hands dirty, it's good for the soul.
Dawn - beef or dairy cattle? How many head? Are taking over the operation when your father goes or just can't physically do it anymore?
J- My own advice for what its worth is to not be too routine. Change it up, from my experience women seem to get bored faster than men.
Dawn - beef or dairy cattle? How many head? Are taking over the operation when your father goes or just can't physically do it anymore?
Beef cattle and dairy goats (cows are dad's, goats are stepmom's) with a few horses thrown in for good measure and a handful of pigs so that we have farm-fresh sausage, bacon and pork chops. My siblings and I will take over when my dad is unable to do it anymore, though, I figure when that time comes, it will be when he's dead and gone because he's a rough and tumble cowboy and he's not ever going to admit he can't physically do anything anymore. Time will tell, but for now, we all help out where and when we can and mainly, when he will let us. He's a prideful man so he isn't always so ready to accept help, even from his own kids. But occasionally, he'll actually ask for help under the guise of helping one of us out. Like recently, he asked me if I needed to practice running a head gate for old time's sake. I, of course, said I certainly did (not really, but you do for family, right?).
I like how my thread goes from sex, dating then to the topic of cows! That is pretty funny. Rendezvous night tonight with the dr at 8 pm.....it is going to be a legit hump day. Maybe if I am lucky I can slip in a little hot yoga and thc.....winks at G!
The evening went great even with no yoga or thc!! She is continuing to bring up the kids and asking me about activities I do with them over the summer, etc so I know she is getting close. Our next planned date is Saturday night, her mom is going to watch her son.
Yoga and thc makes everything better!
But we didn’t do yoga last night, lol. We mapped my house for electrical rewording and adding outlet and then bought the supplies on Home Depot. Just as fun.
Well, if you really see a committed future with her, I guess you should start thinking about it
No red flags G she is perfectly normal. My interest is growing and I feel myself getting more comfortable. I do still get pretty nervous before I see her though but once I am around her it goes away.
Nobody is perfectly normal.
Red flags is not the issue.
If you still get nervous around her , probably not time to put the kids around her.
Unless you are seeing a committed future, wait, I’m telling you!!! I know there are no guarantees, but you should be able to say that is what you want with her whether or not it actually pans out
Your right I guess what I meant to say is that the baggage appears to be very minimal along with the red flags with her having major deal breaker issues. There are no guarantees with any of it as you just experienced last week. I do find that my feelings are growing and I am getting more comfortable with her, who she is, her personality, etc. I think my nerves stem from commit issues coupled with knowing this is getting more serious.
Six months minimum before introducing kids. Because it takes AT LEAST that long, if not MUCH longer, to know if you are going to be in this relationship for the long haul. And your kids do NOT need to go through getting attached to people you are dating and then losing them when you break up.
Lh how was the date?
Had another fun night with the dr past night. Kids came up and the topic of our feelings as well. She told me it was hard being vulnerable again and that she was scared just because she had not found any dealbreakers with me. I confirmed that I felt the same way so really nothing got accomplished other than both of us acknowledging our feelings. Then the conversation turned another direction and that was the end of it. I did tell her my timeline with the kids and my reasons why she indicated she thought it should happen sooner then the conversation got dropped.
Obviously it's clear neither of us are quite ready for all of it however I wonder if I pressed the issue if she would be all in. She made did make it clear how much she liked me and I told her the same.
She is a really great person but my emotions still ebb and flow. I will say though that when I went to her place yday I did not have a bunch of nerves ahead of time so I think I am making progress.
Sounds like you are both pretty much in the same place and that's good! Just keep getting to know each other.
I think we are. She said her son gets attached to people very easily and had a hard time when his father broke up with a girlfriend that he had moved in. Interesting she said she thought the introduction should happen before 6 months as I think if I told her I love you, am falling in love with you or something also those lines my guess is she would then be ok with it. We discussed it a little bit this morning and I mentioned there is really no guarantees with anything and even after waiting 6 months some thing could happen to cause the R to end. I tried to bring it up again this morning but she didn't want to talk about it. On 4/16 it will have been 3 months of dating so I still think it is too soon as we normally only see each other 1 time per week.
I thought she might have been mad about the conversation as she didn't want to talk about it this morning but maybe it has more to do about her being scared as well. I think it is easy to enjoy each others company, have fun, and all that stuff but bringing kids into the mix takes to a whole new level.
That could have been part of the reason why she has dismissed so many guys as her own defense mechanism.
After I left this morning she sent me a text picture of her son eating a doughnut...……...
We discussed it a little bit this morning and I mentioned there is really no guarantees with anything and even after waiting 6 months some thing could happen to cause the R to end.
This is why the 6 month benchmark is a MINIMUM and not a trigger point. It should be only when you really think things are going to be long term. Six months doesn't mean it will be long term - just that at least you've had the minimum amount of time to help determine that.
It's odd that she would admit and realize that her son had a difficult time with a previous breakup with her husband yet is willing to risk her son to the same thing all over again - and seems to even be advocating for it. That's concerning and makes me wonder if she's not looking at her own needs over her sons best interest. Don't let her suck you into that! Hold to what is best for your kids - and honestly hers too. The way you both feel right now, introducing kids should be the last thing to happen. Reserve that for when or with someone you can't wait to see all the time, are madly in love with and feel certain is the one. Especially with young children. When they are into their teens they can do better with this stuff. When so young and after already dealing with the break up of mom and dad, it really effects them when people they are attached to "leave them" which is how they see it.
We discussed it a little bit this morning and I mentioned there is really no guarantees with anything and even after waiting 6 months some thing could happen to cause the R to end.
B and I had an identical discussion. It seem like you are both eyes wide open which is good. The kid thing is different because they range from 24 to 37.
This is why the 6 month benchmark is a MINIMUM and not a trigger point. It should be only when you really think things are going to be long term. Six months doesn't mean it will be long term - just that at least you've had the minimum amount of time to help determine that.
I couldn't have said it better, Don. Stick to the minimum 6 months, let her know you consider this a prudent minimum rule and it in now way reflects on her, just a wise rule you're going to follow. (And if she can't respect that she's not for you anyway.)
If kids come up again I will re-enforce. Maybe it's me but it seems like she is a little distant today. We have chatted off and on but she has not seemed to be her normal self. Maybe I disappointed her a little bit with my time line and by the fact I was not all in at the 2.5 month mark with expressing myself IDK.
I told her I appreciated her patience with me and she did acknowledge being vulnerable is not easy and she was scared/anxious/nervous as well. If anything maybe it caused her to tap the brakes a little bit.
Tapping the brakes is a good thing.
I agree and I am ok with it. I assume she will probably pull back and the next time I will see her is this Saturday as we both have our kids all week.
It's just weird I have always questioned my feelings which I suppose is a good thing as if I was all in from the get go I probably would have ignored things like I did in the past. The longest she has dated anyone post D has been 3 months so I believe she is starting to enter unchartered territory as she told she has always found something wrong with every other guy. She did say there was one guy that she indicated she could have fell in love with but he ended it because he was still hung up over his XW or another woman.
I do like her and enjoy our time together. I think it just scares me because with kids there is more at stake then what there was when I was 20. I think I just feel the pressure as bringing kids into the mix takes it to a different level and once you do I am not sure where you go from there? Even if I think it could be long term I have no idea if it will end in marriage.
It all just stresses me out. Maybe I am making a big deal out of nothing. My mom told me I think too much.
Is there a possibility her R’s didn’t last past 3 months because she pushed the kid thing too early?
3 months is too early. It just is. You guys are still getting to know each other. Introducing kids does change the dynamic of your R
Let her be a little mad. Respect your own boundaries.
The hardest, scariest part about dating post divorce are the kids. It’s also the most important part. I was always afraid that the kids might not like the adults and vice versatility, but it’s more of the attachment issue.
Yes, I will repeat, nothing is guaranteed but we sure as heck make sure we have the best odds when we make a big life changing decision
I guess that is always a possibility but seems unlikely to me. She made a comment that one guy wanted her to meet his kids after 2 months and that was a deal breaker for her. She strikes me as the kind of person that looks for reasons to disqualify guys but has admitted to me that despite her best efforts she hasn't found a reason yet.
She seems to be back to her old self tonight and if she was mad she didn't verbalize it to me. She told me last night that she really really liked me and then this afternoon said she misses me and that makes her smile which means she cares about me. I assume she is starting to feel the vibes of love. I still ebb and flow not madly head over heals in love. That said I do miss her, I do look forward to seeing her again but not being around her doesn't consume my life. It was really nice to go see her yesterday and be all nervous, filled with anxiety. I think I am making progress.
I guess in typical guy fashion there are times when I am feeling it and other times where I am not. This afternoon she sent me a text that made me laugh and smile. Same when we are together like last night sitting at the bar enjoying her company. It was fun and I enjoyed it but then there are times were I feel myself emotionally pulling away, maybe being distant, questioning how I feel, etc.
As I was typing out my own post I thought of you.
This weekend I had a very good looking friendly guy flirt with me. For a while because we were at the same black jack table And all I could think of was M and how I missed him.
What do you think might go though your mind if a hot woman flirted with you like that? Do you think you would think about how much you missed and cared for the doctor or do you think you would be curious to see what else was out there?
I agree that 6 months is a good waiting period. It’s not just because the kids get attached it’s because you get attached to them and it makes it difficult to make a decision down the road. Ex bf introduced me to his daughter early on (who is older) and i really liked her and felt attached to her. But he had to as she lives at home 100 percent of the time.
I waited 6 months till I had son meet ex bf and that was in a group setting. We went on outings that were not very frequent though and son thought he was just a friend for a while. My son right now doesn’t even know we broke up as he wasn’t a huge part of his life. So that’s one thing I did right.
When they are little and close in age you can probably just tell them it’s a play date. I don’t think they need to know more unless they are older and start asking questions.
I had a lot of mixed feelings and at times it felt weird and unnatural to be with him instead of my ex husband. I think for me, I needed to date more. I dated him for the wrong reasons and ignored things I should not have cause I was in loyal relationship mode not dating mode. I also think it takes a really long time to move on from a spouse.
There are so many things I like I about her (the list is rather long) but I do think I am feeling the effects of not being out on the market dating for a long period of time. G I think if a hot woman came along and flirted with me I would think about the DR, I would be curious but I would never cheat. I never think of my XW when I am with the DR. I believe I am good on that front.
I am scared. A guy came up to me at the bar on Saturday night when the DR went to the bathroom and told me that she was absolutely beautiful and to hang on to her. It just seems that with kids I have to know at 6 months if the DR is the one or not that I am going to marry. How can I possibly know that in 6 months? As KML said I am still getting to know her with talking, texting, and only seeing each other 1 or 2 times per week.
My daughters have known my XW's BF for a year but I guess he is not overly involved in their life as they never mention him and when they broke up once for a short period of time my XW made the comment that the only thing they would miss is his dog.
No! You do not need to know that at 6 months! 6 months is a bench mark minimum! If you aren’t sure about where you see yourself with this one at 6 months, then you give it more time.
Ok I get it. She has actually let me take the lead on just about everything and I get the feeling if I plowed right ahead she would be on board so I think she is holding back her emotions. Not holding back may have gotten her in trouble in the past so she might have learned from that as well especially if she got burned. Her D was final in Sept of 2017 so she has been dating for about 8 months longer than me. I also assume she has been on plenty of dates in that time period with a few R here and there so she has a good idea of what's out there and knows a catch when she sees it. Her disqualifying other guys could be a defense mechanism as well.
I have no intentions of ending it with her but I ebb and flow through being nervous, scared, excited, questioning my feelings, missing her, liking her, wondering if she is going to text, etc. Sometimes I just feel all over the place.
I am just happy that when I saw her on Sat I felt no anxiety before the date. I think that is a good sign.
Why do you feel that you need to know at 6 months? What’s the rush? Are you in a state of mind that if things don’t work out you will be just fine? Cause thats a good place to be. Also, if you commit more then your ready for because you feel like you can’t do better, or because you feel pressured, you might just end up resenting her in the future. Timing is important too.
Thinking that you have to hang on to someone because she’s beautiful or the best you can do is not an ideal situation. I told you my ex is 6’4, a professional with bosses and a company that loves him, drives a luxury car. Looks young for his age -kind of Like that actor from mad men. His current girlfriend might be thinking the same thing cause she doesn’t know who he really is yet. All she is seeing is the nice, humble him and the good things on paper. She doesn’t know about his money or alcohol or possible drug issues. She doesn’t know what a minimally involved dad he is cause he’s great at deception. If you met him you would think he’s this all American, involved dad whose wife takes all his earnings and limits his time with his kid. You would have no idea that he threw a book at my stomach when I was 8 months pregnant after I complained he was spending too much money on seasons tickets and not saving for a baby and helping to set up a nursery.
My point being, take your time. Get to know her beyond the superficial things like her looks, and degree. She could be perfect on paper but not a good fit. She’s smart. She wasn’t like the other woman that were blowing up your phone. That doesn’t mean much either. She might just know how to play the game better then the others.
The thing is you don’t know until you spend time with her. Finding out who someone really is takes time in my opinion. Time is the only true revealer. But it’s not just time. It’s experience and the confidence to know your own worth too.
One other thing. Just cause you introduce kids doesn’t mean it’s a sure thing. You might find you don’t like how she interacts with your kids. Or you might realize you have a completely different way of raising you kids that will not coincide with hers. Once you introduce kids it’s a whole new step in the getting to know you process.
Why do you HAVE to know at 6 months? From all that I have read, that is just a suggested benchmark, but as I always continue to say, you have to do what works for you. Some might be ready at 6 months, some might need a year. Everyone is different, moving at different paces. I'm sure it is my own interpretation of what I'm reading into your posts, but you always seem to have this sense of urgency about you and it confuses me. Do you feel pressured by the dr or are you pressuring yourself in some way? As an overthinker myself, I recognize that it is sometimes easy for us that are classic overthinkers to put pressure on ourselves about any number of things that is really not coming from anywhere but within ourselves. From the outside looking in, it seems that things are going well with the dr and that you are becoming more comfortable with her, "feeling her" as some of you kids like to say. I'm not sure what the sense of urgency I'm "hearing" is about, but like Ginger said, just give it more time. You don't have to know anything at 6 months. But, as you yourself pointed out, you are JUST NOW at the 3 month mark, so why are you even worrying about 6 months? Take it one day at a time. There is no rush. Things are good, you like her, she likes you. Slow down and enjoy the ride. I realize when you have small children involved the dynamic is shifted a tad, but it's not like y'all are running to the altar next week, so take a deep breath and enjoy the experience. As bad as I hate the phrase that you all got from your beloved coach, hang out, hook up, have fun. At this point, even though you are exclusive with her, you are just trying to get to know her, so have fun doing it.
It was ok but I don't think I will see her again. What was interesting was I had mention she was a WAW so that came up in conversation. She said she told him directly three different times that this wasn't working and that they needed to fix it. So I directly asked "so you told him directly point blank 3 separate times that it wasn't working"? She then changed it to not in some many words but he should have gotten the point. It still amazes me how we are such different creatures trying to live, communicate and understand one another while trying to live together for 50-60 years.
She made a comment that one guy wanted her to meet his kids after 2 months and that was a deal breaker for her.
This seems like a weird deal breaker to me. 2 months is a deal breaker for her yet she is trying to push you at 3 months.
If your values and beliefs tell you 6 months (which I agree with BTW) stick to it. If she dumps you because of it more then likely that is not the reason.
All great points. I know I am fine either way, I don't need her as I was completely fine without her before. I guess I felt more pressure because we kind of had our first pseudo talk at the restaurant on Saturday. I can't even remember how it came up, I admit probably not the best place for it to occur, but it was the first time we both kind of opened up. I guess that is why I feel the pressure.
Yes, I am still getting to know her, know her quirks, seeing more into life, etc. There has been nothing that scares me so far other than knowing she really, really likes me and she told me last night she really cares for me. That makes me feel some pressure as well. I do think she is being patient with me however I do think she wants me to know where she stands. Maybe indirect pressure????? IDK.
I don't know how she parents, never seen her in action other than a video she posted on her Dr's office Facebook page showing her giving her son a shot. She has sent me many pictures of her son and has shown me videos as well. By all accounts he looks like a happy, healthy, 7 yr old little boy and her a loving mom. He is actually really cute, enjoys Cub Scouts, likes to run around the house in his tighty whiteys, and still has all his stuffed animals. Maybe is spoiled or babied a little bit but he is her only son, she did adopt him, she does have a R with his birth family so I guess that is to be expected. The dad lives over an hour away and only sees him on his designated weekends and not all during the week. According to her he is an absentee father.
I think what J indicated about timing is part of it combined with only being out with 13 or 14 different ladies in roughly 7 months since the DR and I started dating. I know I like her, we have fun when we go out, have sex multiple times on each occasion, she is very talkative, very attentive to me, we touch, flirt, kiss. She is not a party animal, she takes her son to school, goes to work, goes to the gym, and then puts her son to bed then she does it all over again the next day. She does have a nanny that picks her son up from school and stays with him until she gets home from work. She has a ranch in the country that has a small 1400 sq ft house on it, with 25 acres, a shooting range, a creek, and a lot of wide open space to do whatever on that she likes to spend her weekends at just enjoying the country. Her get a way place. She likes to drink wine, is very frugal, very down to earth, did not come from money, raised very middle class. Very intelligent, intellectual, is a word master, put together, seems in control of her emotions, I haven't seen her very low or very high comes across as very even keel. Her mom lives about 3 miles away, she goes to church on Sundays she has a sister that lives in CA that comes to visit every month but she has not spoke with her dad in 15 years. They had a fall out over how he spent his mom's money before she died.
It was ok but I don't think I will see her again
Why not? Did you go for the kiss?
After I said 6 months she dropped it and it has not come up again. She has not pressured me for anything sooner or has brought it up, forced me to explain why, etc. When I said 6 months she did indicate that she has heard that as well but she also mentioned that her friends have asked her when the kids are going to meet.
If I had to guess her emotions are getting the best of her. She has told me that she told her friends I am a keeper, that she really really likes me and she cares for me. All of the words to me indicate she is falling in love, or is in love, and that she knows I am the man
Still too soon, she needs to tap the breaks and to your point if she does value, respect, and likes/love me then she will be ok with it.
Again I think women who have been out with many guys and have dated for a while know a catch when they come across one. I assume she has been on many dates as it is generally easier for women than men.
No I did not. I didn't feel any physical chemistry. Also, some of our values don't align. She said she doesn't swear and doesn't like it. How in the fuch am I going to date someone who doesn't swear? lol.
I assume she has been on many dates as it is generally easier for women than men.
Easier for women to do what?
Women and dating...….easier for women to go on dates as they get more inquiries as men. Maybe not good quality inquiries but she will get more interest than a man initially will.
Well I believe that is your perception because yes in general men will reach out more on OLD and you don't reach out to women on OLD.
I think that there are more quality women available in general because women generally have their $hit together more then men.
Also, you love to make assumptions don't you?
Well I believe that is your perception because yes in general men will reach out more on OLD and you don't reach out to women on OLD.
I think that there are more quality women available in general because women generally have their $hit together more then men.
Also, you love to make assumptions don't you?
TOTALLY agree with LH on this one. Unless you are smoking hot, like your dr. lady, the dating options are practically nil. I was not blessed with the good looks, so my requests for dates were few and far between. I find it fascinating when you all talk about how women are just inundated with date requests....not at all my experience. on the rare occasions I was hit up for a date, the quality left something to be desired. I do think, IN GENERAL, women do tend to have their $hit together more than men.
I do agree with your point, though J9, that women know a good catch when they see one because they get so many "low-ball offers" so to speak, that quality guys tend to stand out in the crowd.
My perception based on what women have told me and or have shown me. Again I have no idea of the quality but I yes men reach out more than women.
I don't know if "love" is an accurate description but I am a overthinker which sometimes takes me down that path of analyzation and assumption making.
So you are basing off woman you know and have dated that they told you they get 100s of messages from men as opposed to saying "I never get any messages from men".
Women I know that showed in their inbox with tons of messages from men. Even G said she got like 20 some matches 1 day on Bumble. I maybe got like 1 message a week and if I was lucky 1 single match every other week on Bumble.
I asked the DR the question and she told me she only would keep her profile up for a few days at the most because she would get tons of messages to weed through. She showed me one from a guy at our gym who said "I see you over their on the stair master with a winking emoji".
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Moving on to the bright side Part 24