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Moving On to the Bright side Part 17.Well I went out with the dr again last night, she even paid for dinner and the evening was great. We ended up going out again because she reached out to me yesterday so I asked her when she was free.
Here comes the interesting part. We did not have sex again, she did not invite me into her bedroom so it was pretty much a repeat of Friday night. When I pulled up in her driveway we sat in the car and kissed. She did not invite me in like Friday night but then she made a comment about it being past my bedtime and I said well I don't have to leave then she came back with ok you can come in but keep your pants on. Fine, ok seemed odd.
So we went inside, she poured us a glass of wine and then we went to the couch where we continued. So it ended after a while, she told me I better go so I got dressed, she did the same and she walked me to the door. She told me to have a happy superbowl Sunday and off I went. Then when I got home I sent her a text saying thank you and she didnt respond. First time that has happened.
Maybe I missed all of her sex signals , maybe I didnt push it hard enough. Idk but it just seems odd.
I’m glad she paid.
Maybe she has a penis? JK!!
She’s old-fashioned remember?
She’s probably not going to have actual intercourse until she sees it going somewhere. Trumpet guy would be buck naked with me and do everything but because he saw it going no where apparently. So he didn’t want a notch on the bed post. Some people don’t want that botch kn their bedpost until they know it might be the only notch for a little while.
Not saying she’s a dick like trumpet guy. She’s just not there yet.
Maybe G....outside of her not responding to my text everything was great. Good convo, I ran into 1 of my basketball buddies at dinner so he came over and gave me a shameless plug..said i was a good dude. It just felt like she wanted to go there with sex but didnt want to if that makes sense so we had our fun multiple times for her and that was it.
Her not responding to my text is what has thrown me. Other than that it was a great night. And she offered to pay before we even left her house.
The good:
She reached out and she paid.
The bad you are breaking your own rules of one date per week. Last time you did this things were going good then ended abruptly.
Slow and steady wins the race.
I thought if they reach out and initiate you are supposed to make a date and assume they want to see you. Am I misinterpreting things?
Yeah for next week early on. One date per week. Time and space builds attraction.
Dont worry about 1 single text. Maybe she didnt see it. Or it didnt go through.
If shes old fashioned, she might be waiting for indications of monogomy? Some women dont want to sleep with guys that are also dating and sleeping with other women. That doesnt mean they want to be married to you though.
Trumpet guy sounds like words i cant put on here.
Maybe she's sleeping with someone else and doesn't want multiple partners because she's old fashion.
Ok...next week early on would not have happened since I get my girls today at 3 but I guess I just could have waited until this coming up weekend. There was no R talk and my profile is still up but I could tell by the questions she was asking me that she is wanting to know more. Before she jumped me on the couch she asked me where I saw myself in 10 years. Then at dinner sex came up and she told me the guy she dated for 3 months she had him buy a 30 dollar std test on Amazon before she had sex with him. So yeah might not be ready for that yet.
I wont see her for a while now since I get my girls today. I assume since I sent the last text I should just sit back and wait for her to respond?
L...that thought did cross my mind. I never asked her what her plans are the superbowl as it is non of my business but she has always been very vague about what she is doing today. She hates football but has watched the playoff games as well which for a girl in Texas who hates football and since Dallas is out it doesn't make sense why she would care.
Keep texting her "did you get my text until she answers" lol.
Is dating even fun for you? Seems awful stressful.
I hate football but I like wings, beer, and gambling, so I go to a party and pay attention once a year. Mainly to see if I won money in my pool.
She’s vague About her plans because it’s none of yo business! She’s not going to tell you what she is doing all the time yet.
Relax and have some Super Bowl fun with your girls
If your unsure... you can send her a funny link to something that relates to both of you. Thats something that gives her a way to respond. But it stays on non pursuing - something you would share with your friend - type of communication
I guess her falling asleep is possible. No...I wont be blowing up her phone. It's fun but I am in uncharted territory with being on 5 dates with someone that seems normal. Either they have blown up my phone from the start or only lasted a couple.
Give it until Wednesday for her to respond and if not call or text and set up your next date.
I wouldn't wait until Wednesday. She already told you pretty much that she'd like you to text her more often. Don't obsess about one little unanswered text. Try just texting her a friendly good morning or good night.
As for the std thing - she's a doctor and well aware of the risks of STDs. Save yourself some time and go get tested now. Then you'll have recent results to show her.
Meanwhile I'm still concerned that your posts are still all about whether she likes you and whether she'll end up sleeping with you. What about what you are seeing in her, good and bad, and whether you think she is a good match for you?
Sorry went to church. She texted me around 9 this am said she zonked out, I just replied and said I figured as much and to have a great day. I am paraphrasing.
I like that she takes care of herself physically, spiritually, and emotionally. She has also has a relationship with God and I think from what I know she would be a good influence with my daughters. I have also realized that she is very talkative, affectionate, and seems to be open to anything. I am starting to get the impression she likes to have fun.
My dislikes/concerns so far. She is a nerd, would much rather listen to Ted's talks while working out than music. She is not into sports and doesnt seem athletic herself. She was a vegetarian for 10 years and my xw was vegan for 12 so there is a reminder. She also does not do dairy, seafood, or steak so more eating preferences to contend with.
That is all I can think of at the moment. I will also say that being who she is has also seemed to help motivate me as well. Not that I need it but we have discussed some of the things we have learned through our readings, etc. That has been cool.
I know you get picked on a bit and i think you are a great guy, but i feel compelled to point out... it is really hard to stay thin as a female after the age of 25 if you drink, and are not a vegan.
Oh J9, you absolutely fascinate me. I absolutely love reading your posts because one of the things that stands out to me is that you are an over-thinker. I am too, so I totally identify with how your mind gets to running. Mine does that all the time and it can be exhausting.
I think this woman has told you who she is and then she has proven to be exactly who she said she was through her actions. That is a really good thing. I still think, and someone else pointed it out, that you seem to be more enamored of the fact that she's into you and all over you when y'all are together in person than you seem to be of what your interest is toward her. Now, mind you, I know you have addressed some of this since I had that initial thought so please don't feel like you have to go back and restate anything you have said. I have read what you like and dislike about her and I get it. I just find it interesting. And, you were bothered before that she wasn't initiating or paying for anything then she did both, so I wonder if that will change your perspective a bit. She also told you to reach out more, so I would do what she said works for her. She just point blank told you and you have said all along that she's very direct, so take her at her word.
I don't know why but it actually struck me funny that you said one of your dislikes/concerns is that she's a nerd. Really? I mean, if she's fun and you enjoy her company, I'm not sure why this is a concern for you. But, then again, I'm a huge nerd and nerdiness in men is attractive to me, so what do I know?
I'm glad that you enjoyed your dates this weekend and that this one seems normal. Good for you!
Oh boy...this might be a semi long post. Yes, D I am an over thinker. Maybe when she didn't respond to my text that created some anxiety in me. She reached out, I got validated so maybe my attraction/interest went down a little. Hmm...interesting thought.
I am so self-aware that I find myself thinking about it when I am in the moment with her. For example, we were messing around and after she took care of me I felt like....ok I am done, I just want to go home or something. Like I caught myself thinking that and then in the moment I remembered what I read in one of my books about men and after sex they are turned off or just want to get away from their woman (I am paraphrasing). However woman want to get closer and bond/connect, snuggle, blah, blah, blah. Then I started thinking is this just normal man behavior or is it because I am not that into her yet? I enjoyed every minute of it but I can't seem to get out of my own head.
I don't know if I would ever be totally smitten with another woman again. I loved my XW, would have done anything to keep our family together but since then I have grown in so many ways. While I am interested, attracted, and she has many things going for her I think it would take some time before I let anyone completely in. I am picky, maybe to a fault, I won't lie and I will agree she is the best one yet. I know I am a catch though and I don't know that I would put anyone on a pedestal again. I like the DR but I have not put her on a pedestal
Maybe this has to do with all the books that I have read and listened to. Maybe it has to do with all the work I have done on myself. Having a woman in my life would be nice and she is a great catch but I don't need one. I do enjoy her company, it has been fun to be out with her, talking, drinking, we do seem to click really well. Initially it also appears that we are on the same page with a lot of things. I am still not all in though and it doesn't matter to me that she is a DR. I could care less about her money.
I am still learning her thought. I will say she is not very expressive with her feelings. She told me she struggles with words of affirmation which is one of my love languages.
Yes, she commented that I have reached out to her the least of any guy she has dated. Yes, she did indicate she wanted me to reach out to her more. What she thinks she wants vs what she will respond to emotionally could be two different things. I can't help that I have read what I read about dating, relationships, building sexual tension, woman needing some anxiety in their life, creating distance, space, how attraction works, etc. So I have all of that knowledge spinning in the back of mind as well. Trying to balance it all out has been difficult.
Thanks J...I don't mind getting picked on and I am a good guy. Maybe in some ways I was spoiled with my XW in the looks department obviously not in the MR department
I am not perfect by any means and I have tried and am trying to get out of my comfort zone a bit and expand my mind. The DR is 5'8 about 145 lbs, dark hair and has never had her own children. Her an her XH adopted their son when he was born. My XW was about 5'4, 115 lbs...she was petite.
What I am trying to figure out is if that is my type or do I think that is my type because that is what I was married to for almost 15 years.
Well if it helps you my type has been my type since I was 16 years old. When I have strayed from my type it has not lasted long.
I strayed from my type back in October and I ended it and the girl quit online dating because of it. Mad me feel horrible. I am very reluctant now to venture away from type.
I remember awhile back you made a comment about seeing her in the gym and that not be sexy and I thought to myself that sounds like a red flag. Women I am attracted to always look sexy in the gym.
Ugh... this discussion is exactly why the idea of dating makes me feel sick to my stomach. No offence but you guys sound like you are weighing the pros and cons of buying a car as opposed to dating a human being. If I were the doctor and I read this, that would be it for me. Is this a guy thing? My type always looks sexy in the gym? Seriously? Red flag?
Is this a guy thing? My type always looks sexy in the gym? Seriously? Red flag?
It's a "some guys" thing. I'm sure that there are women out there who judge based on superficial factors as well.
For me - my "type" is female and not my ex-wife
LOL... my type is apparently conflict-avoidant men who are prone to depression and running away.
I suppose there are superficial women out there. I am thankful I am not one of them. For me, it is just about being attracted to someone on all levels. For instance, my H is not what I would call my "type" physically. I have historically been attracted to tall men, 6' 2" and above (I am 5' 10"), with dark hair. My H is between 5' 11" and 6' 0" and when I met him was blond (now shaves his head). However, he had a genuine smile, beautiful green eyes, an amazing sense of humour and his eyes lit up when he saw me. I forgot all about the fantasy guy and fell head over heels. He did as well and I'm pretty sure I didn't fit the mold of his "type" as his ex is nothing like me. I'm not sure, given our experiences and where we find ourselves (on this board) that we should be too "married" to our type. Just sayin'.
I agree with the many others in that all of this discussion is insightful and interesting. But it does seem clinical,and exausting - at least to me. It's like you (we) have to push yourself to do all of this - and what fun is that? In early life it seemed like I just lived and if I met someone I was interested in I'd ask them out. I'd look forward to the date and it would often be fun. Now it's more like work... Like you have to push yourself to meet people in hopes of finding and connecting with soneone to get you to the starting point that used to start things way back when.
I went to dinner with someone last night and we talked about a lot if things including I should ask Swedish goddess out again. But it's like work, like I'm pushing myself to do it in hopes there will be a spark - versus there being a spark and that's why I want to ask her out. This is what it almost sounds like for you Joseph - like you are trying to find a spark with the Doctor. Oh and BTW what you read about post orgadam depression in males was something i talked about to ginger here so you just may have read it here.
I think you are figuring it out as you go and that's okay. I think you summed some of it up with it will take "the one" to make you feel like you did with your ex. Doctor may just not be the one and that's what some of us are sensing that you are far more focused on her reaction to you and less about how you feel about her. Is it possible that she's good enough right now but not really what you are looking for? Or maybe, and I've said this many times to you, I really don't think you yet know what you are looking for - and that's okay as long as you don't knowingly hurt soneone in the process. It just seems like this should be more fun and less work yet it's turning out to be more work and less fun? I feel the same with much of it. Other than wild girl it's been more work than fun. She's been both and still not the right one (for many reasons) so it takes more work in hoping I do find singing that's the right fit - it just seems like way more work than it's worth. But now I'm projecting my feelings onto you - I just may not be that far off
D,
We certainly don't want to make the thought of dating make you feel sick to your stomach.
My point was a woman I am attracted to looks sexy in the gym to me because I know it is hard work. I get up everyday at 4:30 to workout and I know how hard it is and the sacrifices I have to make. So for a woman to make the same kind of sacrifices is sexy to me.
The red flag was something that caught my attention from understanding J9s postings for almost two years.
Men in general are visual creatures. That is how we were created but no not all men are that way.
To piggy back off what Andrew said, believe me there are many women who are the same if not worse. I am floored sometimes when I read some of the profiles about what a woman is looking for in a man.
Hmmm.... this has me thinking about my "type" I am generally attracted to tall brunettes or African-American men. Partially because I have fond memories of some tall black boyfriends, partially because they make me feel petite by comparison, partially because men of color appreciate my curves as an asset, not a flaw.
Yet my husband was 5'10" and blond, and I once had a mad unrequited crush on a guy who was 5'3".
My REAL type is a smart guy with a wicked sense of humor, fiscally responsible, happy and kind. I'll tell you when I meet him.
I'm going to throw in my 2 cents. My type is woman.... preferably college educated, smart (not the same as college educated), ambitious, motivated, healthy, high morals standards. Pretty basic.
I'm not prepared for dating, but a friend showed me his OLD profile and I agree with LH. In fact to put it mildly what I saw as common for women was pretty high expectations for a pretty used car.
I think I am focused on the DR's reaction to me because from an attraction stand point all of my readings indicate that as a man we should always be gauging her level of attraction. It has become very clinical and in some respects the fun has been taken out. Am I leading, was I direct, is she touching me, is she flipping her hair, did I take control, how many days has it been, has she started to invest, how often has she reached out compared to me, is it 80/20, etc. etc. I think I am making it more work because of all the information I have read.
Exhausting is the right word DH. I can't get it all out of my head. Call don't call, text, don't text.....ugh.
I think I read it in the book Atomic Attraction DH about post orgasm depression. With my XW we had our routine which started with her and ended with me. So then I either went to bed, went in the other room, did some man stuff or whatever so my depressed state was not around her. It was not her take care of me first (then I want to leave) followed by me taking care of her (while wanting to leave). So far the roles have been reversed and as she continues messing around I am like wanting to go do something else.
D - The DR told me flat out what she is attracted to and she makes no bones about it. Tall, fit, educated, white men that can hold an intellectual conversation. I read another girls profile that said "If your hot drop me a note and lets talk". Make no mistake women might try to hide it more than a man but they can be just as superficial.
L - She looked good but I think I commented the moment wasn't sexy (IDK). She actually has a great complexion and wears little to no make up.
I don't feel that I am trying to force things with the DR. I think I have learned though through you all to temper my expectations, take things slow, and not emotionally invest too soon. I have also been burned a couple of times as well by girls that I didn't see it coming from.
I will also say this. It is very weird to get comfortable with someone in an intimate manner when you are used to the same thing for 17 years. What they like, how they move, sounds they make, facial expressions in the moment, smells, tastes, etc. etc. Getting used to someone that is extremely into is a little overwhelming as it is very different than what it was with my XW over the course of our relationship. With dating it feels like you are constantly having to learn someone and get comfortable with them. Then just as you are (that happened with the last girl) something happens and then starting from square 1 all over again. Just saying this is something most men don't talk about. I have discussed this with buddies of mine that are D'd who went through the same problems early on.
I read another girls profile that said "If your hot drop me a note and lets talk". Make no mistake women might try to hide it more than a man but they can be just as superficial.
I'm not disputing that women can be every bit as shallow as men, but I wouldn't necessarily say that anyone is trying to "hide" it. I can assure you that about 99% of the men I encountered should have just put "No fat chicks" as their headline and be done with it. I can't tell you how many men I talked to that I had a relatively pleasant exchange with until they looked at my picture then they would either ghost me or be a complete douche bag about it.
I only ever encountered one guy that I thought handled it in a good way. He pretty much said "no fat chicks" in the beginning of his profile, but the way he wrote the whole thing was just very funny and not at all offensive. So, I sent him a message and I told him straight up that I WAS a fat chick, so I was not messaging him in hopes of meeting or dating or even continuing to talk further, but that I just wanted him to know that I appreciate the humor with which he handled letting his preferences known without being a jerk about it. He sent me back a very nice message thanking me for my candor and we actually exchanged messages for awhile...just a quick hi how are you, how's dating going kind of thing on occasion. Last I heard, he'd met a really nice girl (very fit and pretty) and he seems very happy, so good for him.
I don't have an issue with people having a type and being open about that type and if someone is shallow, well, then that is on them, but what I DO have an issue with is people who just don't have common courtesy or decency and are just rude to people who don't fit their type. I mean, I PREFER tall guys because I'm tall (5'11"), but that doesn't mean that I'm going to make fun of some guy who reaches out to me because he's 5'5".
I will also say that the DR and I are playing a little Mexican standoff with each other. I believe she is waiting for me to engage more frequently, chat with her more frequently. I think she is waiting for me to emotionally invest before she will let her guard down to reciprocate. Just a hunch because in person we are both very touchy feely with each other. We sit next to each other at dinner, she puts her legs on me, I have my arm around her, we were constantly touching each other during axe throwing and it is definitely a two way street.
So outside of the dates the emotional investment has not begun because she is not actively reaching out to me yet and I have not been with her either. She did one time on Sat morning and then responded to my text on Sunday morning then I responded back. We have not had any other interaction since yday morning. The book says 1 call and 1 date per week until the woman starts to initiate because eventually they will get tired of only hearing from you 1 time per week. As their interest increases they will eventually start to reach out, they will get tired of the 1 time per week as they want to bond and connect with you more frequently.
She says text more but how has the worked out for the other guys? They haven't made it past the 3 month mark.
She says text more but how has the worked out for the other guys? They haven't made it past the 3 month mark.
The Doc has issues with the 3 month mark too?
She didn't specifically say that but her longest relationship was 3 months. I assume she has been on plenty of dates
Don't get me wrong she is extremely good looking, I was surveying the scene on Saturday night as we walked in and guys were definitely looking. One guy even winked at me
This thread is so much fun to read, because it goes off in so many directions. You have the over analyzation from J, which i really think he enjoys. It keeps his mind busy. From the female shaming of men, to the women are not like this attitude from the women.
J, as far as her level of attraction, as long as she keeps accepting dates that means she is interested. just remember reward her for good behavior and withdraw your attention when she displays bad behavior.
The " I suppose there are superficial women out there", is the equivalent of saying "I suppose there are horny men out there."
Deja vu post about dating and her reaction, I saw that as a big crap test that many women do without knowing they are actually doing it. Trying to shame a man for how he thinks instead of just accepting that men think differently and are not as emotional as women.
Then LH trying to rationalize his words and thought to her. hehehe you failed the test. Also Andrew responding with the its a some guys thing, which is also placating to her frame of mind.
People have their attractions, its why they call it attractions.
as for me all women look sexy, doesnt mean i want to sleep with everyone of them. If women dont want to look sexy then they wouldnt be putting on high heel shoes, makeup and other things to increase their sexiness. Doesnt mean I am out there doing cat calls, but I will turn around and smile when I find a woman who i think is sexy looking. If you dont want to look sexy then cover up, and if you dont want to cover up then dont try to deny me of being a man and having thoughts.
I am sure many people will lambaste me, and I will cheerfully read any responses.
Rex
Yo R - The Dr and I got into this conversation at dinner on Saturday night. She has botox, lip injections, and has had a boob job. She told me she does these things to make herself feel more comfortable and confident with herself. I argued with her that it might be true but there is a larger picture that men will notice (which is claims she doesn't pay attention to so I called BS). She then tried to put it back on me and said isn't that why you work out. I said yes it give me confidence which also helps with the ladies. I am not denying that then I said "When you put your OLD profile out there and you get 50 likes in 1 day how does that make you feel?" Does that give you instant validation? She just smiled. I said see there is a larger picture that while you might not want to admit it is true.
Rex
I will also say that the DR and I are playing a little Mexican standoff with each other. I believe she is waiting for me to engage more frequently, chat with her more frequently. I think she is waiting for me to emotionally invest before she will let her guard down to reciprocate. .....
So outside of the dates the emotional investment has not begun because she is not actively reaching out to me yet and I have not been with her either.
J,
Your still mind reading and thinking thats what the other guys did and it didnt work out for them. How do you know they texted more often than you, thats right she TOLD you. Remember dont believe anything they say and half of what they do. If she tells you about other guys just respond, I know we are still seeing other people, but I want my time with you to be just about you. No need to get jealous or bash them, be above that and dont let it bother you.
How will you feel if she doesnt want an emotional investment? She may just love attention and dating, but isnt ready for a serious relationship. All those enhancements would be a small red flag for me. Not enough to scare me away, but I would definately look closer and pay more attention.
Rex
Yeah I haven't said anything and truthfully I don't know what she is looking for. There have been no R talks and my profile is still up as is hers. She does seem to be feeling me out with the questions she has asked but nothing specific has come up about us specifically. I did ask me what my 10 yr plan was. The first time I have been asked that question.
If she doesn't then that is fine with me. I haven't made one in her yet either.
This thread is so much fun to read, because it goes off in so many directions. You have the over analyzation from J, which i really think he enjoys. It keeps his mind busy. From the female shaming of men, to the women are not like this attitude from the women.
J, as far as her level of attraction, as long as she keeps accepting dates that means she is interested. just remember reward her for good behavior and withdraw your attention when she displays bad behavior.
The " I suppose there are superficial women out there", is the equivalent of saying "I suppose there are horny men out there."
Deja vu post about dating and her reaction, I saw that as a big crap test that many women do without knowing they are actually doing it. Trying to shame a man for how he thinks instead of just accepting that men think differently and are not as emotional as women.
Then LH trying to rationalize his words and thought to her. hehehe you failed the test. Also Andrew responding with the its a some guys thing, which is also placating to her frame of mind.
People have their attractions, its why they call it attractions.
as for me all women look sexy, doesnt mean i want to sleep with everyone of them. If women dont want to look sexy then they wouldnt be putting on high heel shoes, makeup and other things to increase their sexiness. Doesnt mean I am out there doing cat calls, but I will turn around and smile when I find a woman who i think is sexy looking. If you dont want to look sexy then cover up, and if you dont want to cover up then dont try to deny me of being a man and having thoughts.
I am sure many people will lambaste me, and I will cheerfully read any responses.
Rex
Actually, Rex, while I don't normally agree with you, in this particular case, I agree with a lot of what you said. There are tons of superficial people out there, both men and women. And, I agree, that if a man "dresses it up" so to speak and puts it out there, I'm gonna look. Isn't that the whole point? I won't go so far as to say I agree with that whole "boys will be boys" attitude, but I do think that when women put themselves on display, whether they do it for their own confidence or to attract a man's attention, men are going to look. Just like when a man dresses nice and shows off a little, a woman is going to look.
I continue to maintain that EVERYONE is different and while we all give our reactions based on our own personal experiences, I think we all tend to generalize both men and women. Most of the women in my life tend to be very strong, confident women. There are some women in my circle who would be considered very beautiful by society's standards and there are some women who would be considered very unattractive by society's standards, but they are all strong and confident in themselves, so in general, they don't fit the mold that some of the men say "all" women fit into, anymore than all men fit into the same mold. From that standpoint, I actually agree with what Andrew said and I don't think all men necessarily think the same way some of the posts are written.
I also agree with you that I enjoy reading this thread because it goes in so many different directions. The other thing that I constantly remind myself when I read it is that I don't know any of you IRL so I can only "know" you based on the tone of your writing and let's face it, that leaves a LOT of room for speculation and mind-reading, which we all know can be a very bad thing. LOL
J,
Your still mind reading and thinking thats what the other guys did and it didnt work out for them. How do you know they texted more often than you, thats right she TOLD you. Remember dont believe anything they say and half of what they do. If she tells you about other guys just respond, I know we are still seeing other people, but I want my time with you to be just about you. No need to get jealous or bash them, be above that and dont let it bother you.
How will you feel if she doesnt want an emotional investment? She may just love attention and dating, but isnt ready for a serious relationship. All those enhancements would be a small red flag for me. Not enough to scare me away, but I would definately look closer and pay more attention.
Rex
TOTALLY agree with the first part of what you said. I think J9's over-analytical mind leads him down that path of mind-reading. You have NO idea if texting more would help or hurt. You are not those other men so why bother thinking about what happened to them based on what they did or didn't do? It doesn't matter!
I find it interesting, though, Rex that in a previous post you talked about all women being sexy and if they put on make-up and are looking good, you are going to look but then in this post you say all the cosmetic enhancements would be a little bit of a red flag. I'm sure you have a very good reason for that and I'm not even trying to question your reason because it is yours. It just seems a tad contradictory to me.
It's all very interesting, though. I absolutely love you all sharing your different perspective and being willing to openly discuss it. It is just fascinating to me.
Yikes... this sounds exhausting. J9 - Not sure I would follow that book of yours so closely. I think you should just be you and if that isn't what she is looking for, oh well... TBH...it does sound like you are in a bit of a stand off. Do you like her enough to take a chance at being the one to end it (the stand off)?
Rex... Don't think I was trying to shame anyone... just making an observation. And I wasn't testing anyone. I'm sure there are women out there with a grocery list of requirements. I'm not one of them. I'm honestly just not a fan of the calculated approach to dating. It feels too much like a hunter going after his prey. I don't know... maybe it's just me. Clearly I am not ready to date.
I did ask me what my 10 yr plan was.
You should of been C/F and replied hopefully to get you in bed by then. (with a little wink)
I find it interesting, though, Rex that in a previous post you talked about all women being sexy and if they put on make-up and are looking good, you are going to look but then in this post you say all the cosmetic enhancements would be a little bit of a red flag. I'm sure you have a very good reason for that and I'm not even trying to question your reason because it is yours. It just seems a tad contradictory to me.
In the fairness of open transparency, I feel any surgical enhancement unless done for health reasons, like breast reduction, is a red flag. Clothes and makeup can be removed very easily and I prefer women with hardly any makeup. and for that matter clothes too :P.
going back to this...
I DO have an issue with is people who just don't have common courtesy or decency and are just rude to people who don't fit their type. I mean, I PREFER tall guys because I'm tall (5'11"), but that doesn't mean that I'm going to make fun of some guy who reaches out to me because he's 5'5".
Now no one should be made fun of for how they look. Your comparison to weight and height are not exactly apples to apples though. One can not control how short or tall they are. One can control how much they weigh. I am a large guy 5'10" 330lbs, but my confidence is of 5'10" 190lbs. It is not easy at all to lose weight, as im sure you know. For some because of hormones it could be near impossible. If someone turns me down by the way i look thats cool, i just move on to the next lady. people may look for the one, but with there being 3 billion women on this earth I am looking for the 10 million not the one. Ofcourse I am in the belief that there about about 10 million women who are capable of being that perfect one for me.
Rex
Rex... Don't think I was trying to shame anyone... just making an observation. And I wasn't testing anyone. I'm sure there are women out there with a grocery list of requirements. I'm not one of them. I'm honestly just not a fan of the calculated approach to dating. It feels too much like a hunter going after his prey. I don't know... maybe it's just me. Clearly I am not ready to date.
I dont think you did it purposely, but many women test men without them actually being aware of what they are doing. there are conscious and subconscious tests. It was a test, even if you didnt mean it to be. Testing isnt about requirements, testing is about getting someone into your frame. Such as someone women will say and im paraphrasing " if this doesnt happen you are not getting any love tonight." as a man you can either acquiesce to her demand, or you can come back and say "if this is how your going to behave, then there is the door. I am letting you know I will not put up with this type of behavior." It isnt about the requirement but about the control.
Some think of dating as hunter and prey, but not all hunting is the same. You can either go out and chase and try to take down the prey, or you can set up a trap and just go on about your life. Come back every once and a while and see if you caught any thing. But in dating one person has to be the aggressor, or else nothing will ever get accomplished.
Rex
Your comparison to weight and height are not exactly apples to apples though. One can not control how short or tall they are. One can control how much they weigh.
Maybe not, Rex. More and more research is showing that it is not all about calories in and calories out when it comes to weight. Stool transplants for instance can change someone's weight. Chemical toxins can affect weight. For all the effort people have put into weight loss research nobody has a magic answer.
That's not to say that cleaning up one's diet and exercising won't help most people - but I have obese patients who exercise like mad and eat an extremely clean limited diet and still cannot lose weight - we need to be careful to not blame them for their medical condition.
I will also say that the DR and I are playing a little Mexican standoff with each other. I believe she is waiting for me to engage more frequently, chat with her more frequently. I think she is waiting for me to emotionally invest before she will let her guard down to reciprocate
Joseph, you're overthinking here.
I think I, like most single women, like to hear from a guy I'm dating - just not excessively. It can be lonely being single and there's something very nice about getting that good morning text. On the other hand, I'm very busy at work and there's something creepy about the texts that are bent out of shape because I haven't responded yet.
I know it's difficult to walk the line between too enthusiastic (makes me feel they are in love with a fantasy not the real me because they haven't taken the time to know me yet) and not enthusiastic enough ( if a guy seems to be lukewarm about seeing me and isn't expressing his interest in me I'm gonna assume he's not sufficiently interested and move on to some other guy who seems more emotionally available. (And I'll admit I've probably dropped a couple of guys in my past too early for this reason.)
Now no one should be made fun of for how they look. Your comparison to weight and height are not exactly apples to apples though. One can not control how short or tall they are. One can control how much they weigh. I am a large guy 5'10" 330lbs, but my confidence is of 5'10" 190lbs. It is not easy at all to lose weight, as im sure you know. For some because of hormones it could be near impossible. If someone turns me down by the way i look thats cool, i just move on to the next lady. people may look for the one, but with there being 3 billion women on this earth I am looking for the 10 million not the one. Ofcourse I am in the belief that there about about 10 million women who are capable of being that perfect one for me.
Rex
Now I'm going to go from sounding like I'm trying to be an argumentative smart @ss to being a people pleaser by saying I see several points of view. But, in a nutshell, yes, I agree that height vs. weight is not an apples to apples comparison. As a bigger woman myself, though, I would NEVER hold someone's weight against them. I know firsthand how badly that hurts so I just wouldn't do it so height was the first thing that popped into my mind when I was making my point. However, I also agree with what kml said that losing weight can be more about a medical issue and that it can be nearly impossible for some people.
I also agree that if someone is going to walk away from me just because of my looks, oh well. That says a WHOLE lot more about them than it does me and I don't care. I'd rather they walk away than to deal with someone who has that attitude. What I do care about is when they are nasty about it in the process or people who are just rude in general about peoples' looks. A few years ago, I was working a travel show as a part of the job I had at the time and I had left my booth to go to the restroom. Near the restroom (and conveniently, the beer stand) there was a group of young-ish guys (mid to late 20's, looked like a bunch of preppy frat guys) standing there who had clearly spent a lot of their time at the beer stand already. I didn't know any of them and didn't even really look at them, other than to say excuse me when I walked past them because one of them sort of drunkenly staggered right into my path and I had to walk around him to keep from knocking him down. They were in the middle of the very wide aisle kind of lingering, I assume to buy more beer, but they were blocking the path to the restroom so I had to go around them to get to the hallway where the restroom was. Like I said, I didn't even really look at them or acknowledge them other than to say excuse me to the one who stepped in front of me. As I passed, one of them, loudly said something to the rest of the group about "check out that ugly fat chick in the purple sweatshirt" and then they all laughed as though they were the funniest humans on the planet. Now, I get that people talk and any group of friends at any given time might say something because in general it is human nature to be a bit judgey, but they could have had the decency to either whisper or to wait until I was out of ear shot before they started trashing my physical appearance when I had literally done NOTHING to deserve it other than walk through their field of view to go to the bathroom. I was PISSED! And, honestly, if I hadn't been at work so I had to be professional, I probably would've turned around and smacked that sh!t-eating smirk off that boy's face, but I couldn't do that in the interest of professional decorum. I was AT WORK. So, when I came out of the bathroom and the group was still standing there, I walked right toward the one who had said it, looking him dead in the face the whole time and I told him I hoped they enjoyed their second glimpse of the ugly fat chick in the purple sweatshirt and I just kept walking. I could hear them whispering and some of them laughing after I walked past but I didn't turn and look. Later, they walked by the booth and all of them but the loud mouth made eye contact with me and a few of them either came over and talked to me and asked a few questions and signed up for the drawing we were doing. Loud mouth was visibly uncomfortable that his buddies were now talking to me, but I found it humorous and I get that they were doing it precisely because it was making him uncomfortable, but I still found the humor in it. THAT is the attitude that gets me mad. If he had said something that rude, even to his friends out of ear shot of me, I wouldn't have cared because I wouldn't have known, but don't be a douche bag just because I don't match your ideal. That is just totally uncalled for.
You ROCK Dawn!! No wonder Sparky wants to marry you!!
KM....I might be overthinking it some but the phone works both ways. I should not be the one to always initiate contact. I can do a little more but if it’s not reciprocal then for me I eventually would have to say something.
Yes you're overthinking. You're still in the very early stages and frankly, women have learned not to pursue early on because too many guys are scared off by that.At least in these beginning stages YOU should be the one making more contacts.
Woah, I sure miss some interesting conversation when I actually have to work.
I'll give my short version opinion.
J- you have got to put the dam books down. They are hurting you more than they are helping you. They aren't meshing well with your overanalytical nature. Sometimes we just need a break and we just need to do what we feel and trust ourselves just a bit.
I will say bluntly, you seem to value physical appearance over what someone has to offer. Not to say you don't value a person themselves, but if they don't fit into your very narrow physical window, you have a hard time really seeing the person. You have mentioned on numerous occasions that your ex was 5'4" 115lbs. I have it memorized. I get some people have a type, and I appreciate that you have explored past it..... but you get stuck on it.
I am the weirdo who doesn't have a physical type. Personality actually molds the way a person looks for me. I have found almost all the guys I have dated good looking. ANd they have all looked completely different (although it is erie that M is a 6'2 polish guy with beautiful green blue eyes, as was my exNG, only exNG was 12 years older). I have dated short and tall, and 2 overweight guys. One of them took care of his health, was active, was a firefighter, he just really liked food (as do I). The other had ED due to his weight, uncared for type !! diabetes, doesn't believe in doctors and it turned me off a lot. I've dated short, tall,bald,, hair, beard, no beard... (crap, I sound like I have dated too much). But at the end of the day, it's the person that feeds attraction for me.
M is attracted to me physically. But he expressed how that is not important to him, his attraction stemmed from my personality.I admit, I am a "type" and not everyone's cup of tea. But if I fall into that "type" for a guy, their attraction level has always been pretty high. And these guys couldn't see past that and it made me feel like poop. Plumber couldn't get past his obsession with my a$$ it grossed me out.I think M doesn't have a physical type like me. He just likes me and it feels so good.
I have dated too many men as I have been single most of my adult life. And yes, starting over each time is absolutely exhausting. But I think your main problem is you really haven't found one you have connected with on an emotional level yet. I think part of that reason is you are so into figuring out all these dating games and rules, looking at the outside, rather than the inside, and focusing on how attracted that person is to you, you haven't really had a chance to drop the cr@p and focus on the person. I know I am not the norm, but look how long and how many dates it took me to find someone I have feelings for on a different level than all the others. It's still early, I don't know where it's going, but this one "counts"
Fine, that wasn't the short version. But I think you need to step back and breath and drop the stupid books. DO what feels right to you. ANd you may not like it at all that she wants you to pursue so hard before she reaches out to you. And you are allowed to have those feelings, to do something about it, and not just follow in what she wants and think about what's right for you for a hot second.
J,
Your still mind reading and thinking thats what the other guys did and it didnt work out for them. How do you know they texted more often than you, thats right she TOLD you. Remember dont believe anything they say and half of what they do. If she tells you about other guys just respond, I know we are still seeing other people, but I want my time with you to be just about you. No need to get jealous or bash them, be above that and dont let it bother you.
How will you feel if she doesnt want an emotional investment? She may just love attention and dating, but isnt ready for a serious relationship. All those enhancements would be a small red flag for me. Not enough to scare me away, but I would definately look closer and pay more attention.
Rex
TOTALLY agree with the first part of what you said. I think J9's over-analytical mind leads him down that path of mind-reading. You have NO idea if texting more would help or hurt. You are not those other men so why bother thinking about what happened to them based on what they did or didn't do? It doesn't matter!
I find it interesting, though, Rex that in a previous post you talked about all women being sexy and if they put on make-up and are looking good, you are going to look but then in this post you say all the cosmetic enhancements would be a little bit of a red flag. I'm sure you have a very good reason for that and I'm not even trying to question your reason because it is yours. It just seems a tad contradictory to me.
It's all very interesting, though. I absolutely love you all sharing your different perspective and being willing to openly discuss it. It is just fascinating to me.
Dawn,
I don't think it's contradictory. Maybe Rex can give his input, but I read it as a little makeup vs surgery, injections, etc. Its like a person who likes to workout to look good vs a juiced to the gills gym rat.
Personally I like women as naturally as they were born. Cosmetic surgery is a big turnoff. I also like minimal makeup or no makeup. XW likes to put on the war paint and at times I find it unattractive. Less is more in my books.
Yo G.....I hear ya. I would say this. When we are out on dates we have a great time. There is no shortage of conversation. I feel as though I am acting legit as who I am. It seems to me that the emotional connection starts to build the more you interact and talk with each other in our daily lives. Not just once a week and 1 date per week. So it’s not that I don’t think I can hit it off with her emotionally I just haven’t had the opportunity based on how things have went. I have not started to be vulnerable and either has she. I did reach out to her yesterday and we texted back and forth for a bit so that is a start. The next time I will see her is either sat or sun.
Some great discussion here lately.
I find myself drawn to my XW's physical type (brunette, short, on the curvy side). I can say my XW is very similar to my mom, so it may be more nature than nurture. I'm open to other possibilities, and some of the more serious dates I've had have all been with blondes. Go figure...
J9, the dating you're doing does seem like a lot of work, and I say that as someone who's done the same. After a while, I realized I was actually going on "relationship interviews". It was exciting - and stressful.
We go on job interviews because there's a mutual need to fill a position. So, what position are we trying to fill when we go on these dates? That last question really got to me, until I realized there is no position (there is no spoon). I am complete by myself. Trite but true.
I had a date about a month ago, and the second she walked in, I could see she just wasn't my type. But I said to myself, "I'm here, I'm going on a date, and I'm going to have a great time". So for the next hour I just said whatever I felt like saying, I had ZERO expectations about the outcome, and had no desire to impress her. It was great! I felt so relaxed and free to be myself. I realized I wanted ALL my dates to be like that.
For me, I was working so hard because I'd convinced myself through my D that I WAS NOT GOOD ENOUGH to save my M. There was a lot of shame - I had internalized it. I'd read plenty of books too, and I was determined to do better this time. I was really out to prove something to myself.
But everyone has a different path to walk.
Anyway J9, your DR reminds me a lot of the lawyer I dated. The text conversations with her were non-existent and she never reached out, but when we got together the chemistry was like WOW. After 2 great dates she dropped me out of the blue. I wonder if maybe she just liked the attention and flirtation.
Well date number 6 lined up for Saturday night and I got a kissing emjoi to boot
We texted a little bit yesterday and again some today as well. Nothing over the top just 3 or 4 messages between the both of us. I have initiated however she has not taken too long to respond. It does seem the more I reach out the more she is starting to open up. I guess she has been wanting me to be the aggressor. I don't mind doing it so hopefully she will start. I am thinking about just having her come over to my house on Saturday night.
H - I think it has been hard for me to be vulnerable. It is also very easy for me to disqualify someone. Stressful to say the least but I am finding myself trying to make the shift this week. Stepping outside of my comfort zone a bit with this one, being more aggressive, initiating contact and just trying to enjoy the moment. I don't want to overdue it but she seems to be responding.
I know this is really difficult and as Holding well pointed out, can be more like work and a job interview than anything. I'm sure this is why the coach advocates pretty much only dating women who are into you and says it's just much easier - yes it is. The Doctor may be into you but you are the one having to do all of the work or at least most of it.
What I"m still wondering, and perhaps you've answered this when i was gone over the past weeks then this past weekend, but what do you really like about her? I've heard you mostly say that what you like about her is that she flirts with you, you feel chemistry when you are with her (but not any other times) and she is fun on dates. But beyond that, what is it about HER that you like (other than her looks?) I think this is why me and some others here think it seems more like work and more like an exercise in trying. It used to be (and at least with two or three women in my past couple years) that you'd think about them, could not wait to see them, wanted to hear from them. She's so much fun, or a great person to have conversations with or whatever. You just don't seem to be all that into her - it's more like you just want her to be into you and that will be enough. Just the vibe I get.
Yo dh....I kind of addressed this in some earlier posts.
Holding said we are "looking to fill a spot". I think when we treat it that way, we subconsciously force things we shouldn't. Or we treat it as a job.
Maybe over time you'll build a connection J. Maybe you won't and it will be you that decides it isn't working. Maybe you'll be single and not a relationship for a while longer, and that wouldn't be the end of the world either.
Well this is uncharted territory with a girl that has not tried to force a connection from day 1. Imo it forms over time as you interact and spend more time with each other. I saw one of my basketball buddies this am at the gym who just got engaged ( is divorced 3 yrs ago) and I asked him if he knew right away that his future wife was for him and he said nope I had intentions of going out with others and it just sort of happened. We shall see what happens but that is why it’s called dating. Again I also think our lack of interaction between dates has impacted that some as well. We did text yesterday and on Monday so I hope she will start to reach out more. I do know that there is more that makes sense but us than does not but both of us are taking it slow. I will see her on sat night which is 1 week from last date. We are not forcing seeing other during the week even though she lives 2.8 miles from my house.
We texted a little bit yesterday and again some today as well. Nothing over the top just 3 or 4 messages between the both of us. I have initiated however she has not taken too long to respond. It does seem the more I reach out the more she is starting to open up. I guess she has been wanting me to be the aggressor. I don't mind doing it so hopefully she will start.
So, I think I totally must miss reading between the lines or something on some of your posts sometimes because what jumped out at me about the above comments from a recent post is yes, she wants you to be the aggressor. SHE TOLD YOU THAT! She told you she's old fashioned, told you she wants you to text more. So why do you say you GUESS she has been wanting that? I know, I know someone is going to respond to this with that whole "believe half of what they do and none of what they say" line (which I have never subscribed to myself, but if it works for others, more power to them). I'm more in the camp of if someone repeatedly tells you the same thing (in this case, that she's old fashioned, which to me screams "I need you to pursue me"), that maybe you should pay attention to what they are saying over and over and over again. You also said she's very direct and doesn't really beat around the bush. She told you she's old fashioned, told you to text more, you started texting more and bam, she became more responsive, initiated a text and a date, which she paid for.
I am glad that you are taking your time, getting to know her and that she seems to be much more in control of herself than some of the others. I do agree with what several said, though, that sometimes in reading your posts it almost seems like a lot of work for you because of your overthinking, but if you are having fun, keep on keeping on.
Yes....slow is good. The dr initiated a text to me last night but I was in the middle of basketball practice with my youngest so I told her I would call her later. So I called her after I got the girls to bed and we chatted for about an hour or so. The communication between us has been daily now since our last date on Saturday. Just a few text exchanges but still it has been daily with last night being the longest. I made reservations for sat night at a wine bar/lounge that has live jazz music as well so I thought that would be cool. When I told her she said it didn’t matter to her as she knows with me anything would be fun.
Working from home today as my oldest is now sick and has come down with something. After the gym this morning I picked up cinnamon rolls at the store I think that will probably cure whatever bug she has picked up
J9 et al.
How did you know when you were ready to start dating women? Anything specific?
I know some people say 1 yr after your d is final. Honestly I probably started a little too soon but IMO you just have to start putting yourself out there and you will start to get more comfortable with it. Early on my x dominated too much of the convo but I knew the first girl I went out with wasn’t going to be the one so I just used it as practice, got more comfortable with it, read a lot of books, and gradually I realized my x had become an after thought. Now the only question I get asked is how long have you been divorced. The what happened and why comes after several dates. I will say women have good spider senses and can tell if you are fresh on the scene. The first girl I went on a date with kissed me in the parking lot and I was like a deer in headlights. Needless to say she ghosted me
How did you know when you were ready to start dating women? Anything specific?
I think you just know when you are ready to move on in your life.
J9 et al.
How did you know when you were ready to start dating women? Anything specific?
Everyone is different. I started about a month after my D. I felt a very strong urge to date. I knew I had a lot to learn about dating, women, reading the signals, etc., and I figured I might as well get out there and get started. It may have been a little too early for me, but I learned from every sitch and learned a lot about myself. I didn't date much before my M. A few women have specifically asked if they were the first person I dated, post-D. They didn't want to be my training wheels, or a way for me to work out my issues.
Some people will say wait a year. I think setting some arbitrary condition (6 months, a year) will make you go hog wild once you hit that benchmark. I say, start dating when you want to.
Just don't turn around and start getting super serious. A close friend went and married someone 3 or 4 months after his D. That lasted about 6 months, and now he's getting D'd again.
I really think it depends on the person. Some people never are ready and decide that staying single is the best thing for them.
A dear friend of mine explained it best to me. She told me that she knew I would be healed when I was no longer defined by what was but rather by what will be. While complete healing may not come for many of us we can get close enough. If we involve someone else while we are still hurting badly, it's unfair to all involved.
I find it interesting that several,who started dating soon after D - or before it was even completed - now say they may have gone in too soon. One year is not intended to be a magic number but rather a minimum. I went out on my first actual date about 16 months after my D was final. That was about 30 months since bomb drop and W moving out. I think it's most important that you start dating because you want to add to your life rather than have someone fix what is missing. Casual dating would be fine but what happens if it goes past casual which if certainly can. It's not like you can turn off those feelings. I think you mostly need to ask yourself why are you wanting to date? Those honest answers should guide you. As Andrew stated it may also guide you to realize you don't want to nor need to and there is nothing wrong with that either. Just don't rush it. It won't serve you well and it could very much hurt the women you date. It's okay to be alone for awhile. And it really is okay to follow the advice of many experts and professionals who suggest you wait a year - six months at absolute minimum. It will serve you well
I think the most important things are that you have processed the marriage and that you are over your ex. It's not fair to date someone if you would go running back to your ex if they called.
The timeline on this varies with the person and the situation. I started dating someone just three months after my ex left. BUT that was 9 months after he first brought up leaving, after his two previous affairs, after having DBd successfully for 7 years after his most recent affair. I had peace in my heart that I'd done everything possible to save my marriage and that there was no way I would ever take him back after this third strike. I'd already done the work that most people have to do on themselves after their spouse leaves.
I've never regretted dating then, it was healing and life affirming. But even so, it worked because he was long distance and I could escape to visit him once a month while working on my protracted divorce at home. It probably wouldn't have worked if he'd been local and needing more of my time while I was going through the divorce mediation.
Home again today, my oldest still not feeling well. Taking her to the dr at 10. Had a good workout this am, texted the dr last night and she initiated with me this am. Seems like she is slowly coming out of her shell a bit or maybe she is just holding herself back. I have felt my attraction for her increase this week as we have stayed connected during the week. It is definitely not a back and forth all day long but rather a couple of messages here and there with her initiating a couple times as well.
There has been no conversation about any R, future talks or anything like that. I am not sending the 8 am good morning texts or the 9 pm good night texts, haven’t said anything about how I am looking forward to seeing her or anything of that nature so I think in some respects we are at a standstill with each other. It’s like this feeling out process with neither one of us wanting to tip our hands. I am looking forward to tomorrow night and seeing her but I guess I am just uncomfortable expressing it. I still have these thoughts of being needy, clingy, etc. floating around in my head combined with it only being 6 dates I am not sure what I should be saying at this point other than avoiding R talks which I have no desire to do anyway. Maybe this falls in line with what the coach says about your feelings being unclear and girls are more attracted to a guy when they don’t know how he feels.
J9 et al.
How did you know when you were ready to start dating women? Anything specific?
For me I was ready to date again about 4 months after the BD. When I realized that my ex and I was not going to get back together. I didnt date though because I was still married. I take that back, I went out on 1 date and on the first date it seemed so transactional, she wanted a LTR, me to meet her kids, and told me she was a submissive and I would make a good master for her. Lets just say I ran for the hills. I knew I was not ready for a LTR, and she showed alot of red flags. I did go out with alot of friends in groups and just flirted with the opposite sex, knowing that i wasnt going to take it any further. This will help prepare you for when you have come to the conclusion that you are ready to meet someone else. My divorce was just finalized on Jan 23rd and I have really hit the gas on dating. When you are ready to move on with your life that is when I think you should start dating again. Dating and LTR are two different things though. I believe one is ready for a LTR when they can be happy with being alone. In my opinion, if you cant truly be happy alone, then you will be getting into a LTR for all the wrong reasons, even if you are not aware of it. When you can be happy knowing that you do not need someone else, then you will have the right mindset for a LTR.
J,
my question to you is, can you be happy with never meeting someone else? If you ask yourself can you truly be happy being alone, are you happy with the answer? I may be wrong, but i dont think you are quite there yet.
Rex
I am happy being alone but I don't want to be alone forever. I love going out with women, the interaction, conversations, and all that they have to offer with their femininity.
So my next question is, are you going out with any other women besides the Dr.? If you are not, what are you doing to try and meet other women? just OLD or are you doing other activities were you can meet single ladies?
Concerning when you should date after D, several have already said it, but I think it really depends on the person. I don't think there is any set timeline, though several mentioned seeing 6 months or a year as a guideline. I think everyone is different and you have to go with what feels right in your gut. I know for me, I didn't feel ready to date for a year and honestly, it was almost exactly a year to the day and I just woke up one day and it felt like a switch had been flipped. Now, I wasn't presented with a lot of dating opportunities for a variety of reasons, so I didn't actually GO on a date for about another 3 or 4 months after I felt ready, but that was more about logistics than being ready. I think kml and some others hit the nail on the head that the key to being "ready" is knowing you are past your X and that you aren't going to go running back if they call. It isn't fair to anyone in the situation if you don't know for sure that you are finished with your X.
There has been no conversation about any R, future talks or anything like that. I am not sending the 8 am good morning texts or the 9 pm good night texts, haven’t said anything about how I am looking forward to seeing her or anything of that nature so I think in some respects we are at a standstill with each other. It’s like this feeling out process with neither one of us wanting to tip our hands. I am looking forward to tomorrow night and seeing her but I guess I am just uncomfortable expressing it. I still have these thoughts of being needy, clingy, etc. floating around in my head combined with it only being 6 dates I am not sure what I should be saying at this point other than avoiding R talks which I have no desire to do anyway. Maybe this falls in line with what the coach says about your feelings being unclear and girls are more attracted to a guy when they don’t know how he feels.
Ok, so, you are going on date 6 this weekend. Just relax and enjoy! I still think you are WAY overthinking everything. Do you like her? Genuinely like her? I'm assuming you do since you keep asking her out. You say you are looking forward to seeing her but are uncomfortable expressing it. I wouldn't think, at this point, because it is still early on, that there would be any R talks, but a clear interest on both parts is not a bad thing. I'm sure this will be an unpopular opinion, but I don't see anything wrong with telling her you are looking forward to your date. It is no secret that I don't necessarily agree with the coach, but I am NOT more attracted to a guy if I'm unsure of his feelings. If someone is asking me out, I'm assume he's interested and if I am also interested, I will keep saying yes. Maybe I am weird, I don't know, but I personally don't think it comes across as needy or clingy to just say that you are looking forward to seeing her.
Have fun. I think your wine/jazz/piano bar sounds fun.
I'm sure this will be an unpopular opinion, but I don't see anything wrong with telling her you are looking forward to your date. It is no secret that I don't necessarily agree with the coach, but I am NOT more attracted to a guy if I'm unsure of his feelings.
Last time I defend the coach but he would never advise to not say I am looking forward to the date.
Please read the book because a lot is taken out of context.
I'm sure this will be an unpopular opinion, but I don't see anything wrong with telling her you are looking forward to your date. It is no secret that I don't necessarily agree with the coach, but I am NOT more attracted to a guy if I'm unsure of his feelings.
Last time I defend the coach but he would never advise to not say I am looking forward to the date.
Please read the book because a lot is taken out of context.
You don't have to defend the coach. You have your opinion of his advice and I have mine. I have not read the book, but I did go online and read some excerpts from it after you all continued to share his advice. I still don't agree with much of what I read (granted, I did NOT read the book in it's entirety) because it comes across as condescending to women IN MY OPINION. That is solely my opinion and I do not expect anyone else to share it. What I did appreciate about the parts that I read is that the coach is very open about saying here is the situation, here is how I handled it, here is how I should've handled it and this is what I learned and how I can help you avoid those same mistakes. That is a good approach and I get how that works, particularly for men who tend to be more task-oriented. It's a very methodical approach and in general, men do tend to think more methodically in most situations. Of course, there are exceptions to EVERY rule.
I simply commented on what J9 said. First, I did NOT say that the coach said don't say you are looking forward to a date. J9 said that. I commented on what he said. Unless I missed something, neither J9 nor I mentioned the coach in that part of what either of us said. I assume (maybe wrongly) that J9 is uncomfortable with expressing his sentiment because he thinks it sounds needy/clingy/whatever. I just said that the opinion may be unpopular because it does seem that a lot of men tend to hold back those sorts of comments, particularly at the beginning for whatever reason that I won't speculate about.
Now, where I did bring the coach into it is when J9 did first. J9 said:
Maybe this falls in line with what the coach says about your feelings being unclear and girls are more attracted to a guy when they don't know how he feels.
I simply responded to that part of what J9 said by saying I have made no secret that I don't agree with the coach (and I am not the only one who has disagreed with things you all say the coach says and I would imagine I am also not the only one who has not read the book). I simply said I personally am NOT more attracted when I am unsure of a guy's feelings. In fact, being unsure starts to make me unsure. Did J9 take that out of context? I have no idea. Did he paraphrase? Probably, because we all tend to do so. Did I take what J9 said out of context? That wasn't my intention but maybe that is how it came across.
Honestly, if there were a self-help guru out there that really "spoke" to me like the coach speaks to some of you, then I am sure that I would share their advice a great deal as well, so just because I disagree with what advice he gives doesn't mean I think everyone should disagree. I continue to say that everyone is different and they have to do what works for them and I have to do what works for me. For me personally, based on both what you all have said (which is where my initial impressions/opinions of the coach were formed) and the excerpts I read, what the coach said doesn't really work for me, but then again, I'm not his target audience.
Dawn,
I get it everyone is entitled to their opinion.
I just think getting snippets here and there are an unfair assessment of someones teachings.
He definitely is not condescending to women, again that might come from watching one video and or taking something out of context.
He does teach that it's a scientific fact that women are more attracted to a guy whose feeling are unclear. But he would never advise you against saying "I am looking forward to our date". Actually he would advise the opposite.
I know I said I was done defending him and now I really am.
Totally get what you are saying, LH. And, for the most part, I agree. We see things differently so some things we just won't agree on and that is fine. I'm glad people have different opinions, because, quite frankly, I would hate to live in a world full of Dawns with no other input. That would just be scary. LOL
In my opinion, if you cant truly be happy alone, then you will be getting into a LTR for all the wrong reasons, even if you are not aware of it. When you can be happy knowing that you do not need someone else, then you will have the right mindset for a LTR.
I am happy being alone but I don't want to be alone forever. I love going out with women, the interaction, conversations, and all that they have to offer with their femininity.
How on earth can you know if you are happy being alone if you are dating people? By definition that is not being alone!!! And there in is the problem of dating too soon. I swear rationalization really is the second strongest human drive. We rationalize everything to fit our narrative. The only way to truly know if you are happy alone and with yourself is do be alone. You are not alone if you are going out on dates! You are getting the external fulfillment from anyone you go on a date with. Just because you are not in a committed LTR does not mean you are alone. Dating counts! So I see both of you talking the talk but not walking the walk!
Sorry...I hit the post button before I was finished.
Not to belabor the point, LH, because you said you were done defending and we could probably have exchanges all day where we go back and forth with me saying something then you defending the coach, but I will say this. To me, the snippets of the 3% man book that I read were very condescending. I'm a woman and I took it that way. It wasn't out of context or just a video clip (I didn't even look at videos, just read book excerpts). That is how it came across TO ME. Other women may not think that at all and obviously you don't and that is fine. Different opinions. Even with the tone I don't care for, one thing I DO appreciate is something you pointed out:
He does teach that it's a scientific fact that women are more attracted to a guy whose feeling are unclear.
It has been MY experience that sometimes people will talk about scientific facts, almost as though they are preaching, thinking the more they say they are scientific facts, the more they can back them up. This book does seem to include such facts as the one I quoted you on above that are actually scientific facts that you can research. I looked up several from the book as I was reading and I liked that he had actual research-based data to back up what he said. It's real easy for people to say something is "scientific fact" and we hear it all the time on tv and see it in print all the time, but it does seem that when he says it in the book, it is easily verifiable through REPUTABLE scientific sources. Maybe because I'm in a science field this stick out more to me than it would some others, but I think this is a very good thing.
On the other hand, while I was looking/searching/digging, I came across another book of his that wasn't so much about dating called Mastering Yourself. The stuff I read from that one had a whole different vibe and was not at all condescending in tone. I really liked some of what he had to say in that one and will likely read that whole book.
By the way, for the record, I do appreciate the things that you all share because whether I agree with any given individual or not, I can appreciate differing viewpoints and I can learn from them. So, thank you for that.
Spinning of of Don H statement how long should you be alone to know that your happy alone? Would dating be a good/or bad idea if you enjoy being along too much. Date to avoid being a hermit, to avoid walling up your vulnerabilities?
I was alone for over a year from the time my x moved out to the time I started dating. I am an only child and have no problems being alone. I don’t need validation from anyone but anyone that says they don’t appreciate it or enjoys it from the opposite sex is full of [censored] or maybe they are just not successful with the opposite sex?
That’s like saying that Michael Jordan only needed to practice and didn’t need/want to showcase his abilities in a game or didn’t enjoy being on the ultimate stage. That’s ok coach I just want to practice, I don’t need to play in front of millions of people. Screw that, that’s why you hone your skills, put in the work, get up at 5 am and hit the gym, have gainful employment, increase your sexual market value. It increases your confidence in all aspects of your life which in turn increases your confidence with whatever sex your into. So when the time is right your game is tight and all of your practice and work pays off.
I love women and being with them. Sitting at the bar with an attractive female, enjoying her company, having some wine, talking, laughing, kissing, touching, etc. is freaking fun. Who doesn’t like to be with someone who is totally into them.
Women are beautiful creatures and I am not ashamed to admit it. Sure I could still do all of these things and not decide to date but what fun is that?????
Spinning of of Don H statement how long should you be alone to know that your happy alone? Would dating be a good/or bad idea if you enjoy being along too much. Date to avoid being a hermit, to avoid walling up your vulnerabilities?
TF,
You don't have to date to avoid being a hermit, that's what GAL with friends is for even if it is a platonic relationship with a woman.
Trust me you will know. I think you need to give it a year because your's happened so fast.
Dawn,
It's all good.
I knew we had things in common, I work with Scientists too. So you know how they are "just the facts mam" lol. Can you send me an example on how you feel he was being condescending to woman?
Spinning of of Don H statement how long should you be alone to know that your happy alone? Would dating be a good/or bad idea if you enjoy being along too much. Date to avoid being a hermit, to avoid walling up your vulnerabilities?
TF,
You don't have to date to avoid being a hermit, that's what GAL with friends is for even if it is a platonic relationship with a woman.
Trust me you will know. I think you need to give it a year because your's happened so fast.
LH,
I'm in no rush, just trying to understand things. I sit in my head a lot and think about every angle. It also doesn't help reading the adventures of J9. Dating sounds like work and a lot of fun.
Lol. Your time will come TF. It's a lot of work and fun. Yoga will prepare you for the ebs and flows.
Oh, I totally know the whole "just the facts, man" types. And, I also know that too many people say they are basing things on scientific fact when they pulled it out of their @ss. LOL Drives me crazy. This guy does seem to have ACTUAL scientific fact backing up stuff he says and that is a plus in my book.
To respond to your question, though, here is just one example that jumped out at me as I read through:
"In this book you will learn things that many women do not even understand about themselves. Why do women say they want one thing and then respond to another? Most important of all, I will teach you how to win the heart of the beautiful woman of your dreams. That is not a misprint. If you allow yourself to take my guidance and are willing to learn, I will give you the skills and tools to help you finally understand women and have the relationship of your dreams. The wonderful truth is that if you treat a woman properly and allow her to come to you at her own pace with minimal and simple actions on your part, she will do most of the chasing, calling, texting and pursuing! That allows you to focus on what’s most important in any man’s life, your mission and purpose!"
Now, before I tell you MY opinion, let me preface it with a few things. 1.) Again, this is MY opinion. I'm not asking anyone else to agree with it or embrace it or even acknowledge it in any way. This is how I read what the paragraph said. 2.) MY opinions are shaped by my life experiences and the person I am. 3.) I copied this directly from the text of the beginning of the book, so as NOT to take it out of context.
It just seems to me that he is saying women are wishy-washy and don't know what they want. It also seems that he's saying if you give a woman a little attention then she'll go all in and do all the work of getting with you so that you can focus on what REALLY matters (whatever that might be). That is MY interpretation, based on my own life experiences. I doubt that is your interpretation, LH, but then again, we are different people and different sexes so we approach things differently. There are several instances like this just throughout the parts I read that seemed as though he felt like women were just stupid. Sure there are women who don't know what they want or say they want one thing then end up with the total opposite, but there are certainly men who are that way as well.
Now, granted, when someone writes a book like this, there is a fair amount of generalization about things and I get that he's generalizing women because there are exceptions to every rule. It is human nature to generalize people: "all men do this", "all women say that", etc. But, to me, the tone of the book generalized women as being less intelligent and more emotional than men. Women DO tend to be more emotional (generally), but I don't think women tend to be less intelligent.
It was also off-putting to me how he spent a lot of time talking about the physical attributes and beauty of the women from his past and he talks about finding a beautiful woman over and over. This struck me specifically for a reason that I am very well aware of, but I just wanted to say "hey, look, dude, I get it...you hooked up with a bunch of hot chicks and that makes you feel like a stud, but there are women in this world who aren't necessarily physically beautiful who are every bit as amazing as your 5'2", 110 pound brunette in her short shorts that left all the dudes at your office drooling on themselves when she came to meet you for lunch." That phrase beauty is in the eye of the beholder kept smacking me in the face.
Dawn,
Fair enough and now I will give you my interpretation on what I think he means.
"In this book you will learn things that many women do not even understand about themselves. Why do women say they want one thing and then respond to another? Most important of all, I will teach you how to win the heart of the beautiful woman of your dreams. That is not a misprint. If you allow yourself to take my guidance and are willing to learn, I will give you the skills and tools to help you finally understand women and have the relationship of your dreams. The wonderful truth is that if you treat a woman properly and allow her to come to you at her own pace with minimal and simple actions on your part, she will do most of the chasing, calling, texting and pursuing! That allows you to focus on what’s most important in any man’s life, your mission and purpose!"
[quote=Dawn70] It just seems to me that he is saying women are wishy-washy and don't know what they want.
I think he means and I am sure you have experienced this yourself or maybe a friend, where a woman says "I just really would love to meet a nice guy". Then she meets a nice guy and then doesn't like him because he is too nice of a guy. Now granted all women are not like that but I think you know what I am talking about.
It also seems that he's saying if you give a woman a little attention then she'll go all in and do all the work of getting with you so that you can focus on what REALLY matters (whatever that might be).
I think he means let a woman come to you at her own pace. Meaning don't stalk her, blow up her phone, be the man and take the lead but let the attraction build at her pace. (This is where J struggles lol) He believes you should be doing something which is your passion and purpose that gets the juices flowing every morning. What woman doesn't find that attractive?
It was also off-putting to me how he spent a lot of time talking about the physical attributes and beauty of the women from his past and he talks about finding a beautiful woman over and over.
I have heard him many times saying that just because someone is beautiful and attractive to him doesn't mean they are to everyone else. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
I totally get why you guys are against him. It would be the same as the WW finding out about DB. It feels inauthentic and gamy when really all it i is guidelines to hopefully understanding the man/woman dynamic.
Dawn,
Fair enough and now I will give you my interpretation on what I think he means.
I think he means and I am sure you have experienced this yourself or maybe a friend, where a woman says "I just really would love to meet a nice guy". Then she meets a nice guy and then doesn't like him because he is too nice of a guy. Now granted all women are not like that but I think you know what I am talking about.
Oh I totally know what you mean and I do know women like that. But I also know men like that, which is something else about the book that I don't like. I already addressed this in my previous response but I think it is WAY over-generalized and some things that he wants to pigeon-hole women for doing are things that are equally as prevalent among men, though he tends to overlook that.
I think he means let a woman come to you at her own pace. Meaning don't stalk her, blow up her phone, be the man and take the lead but let the attraction build at her pace. (This is where J struggles lol) He believes you should be doing something which is your passion and purpose that gets the juices flowing every morning. What woman doesn't find that attractive?
Fair enough. I don't disagree with your interpretation. But I still contend that it makes it sound like women should put the man first while the man should put everything else but her first.
I have heard him many times saying that just because someone is beautiful and attractive to him doesn't mean they are to everyone else. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
I said the same thing "beauty is in the eye of the beholder". However, in this particular case, he painstakingly makes a point of describing physical attributes (height, weight, etc.) so he obviously finds small women very attractive. That is fine and some men would agree with him and some wouldn't. It is just the way he throws it in there over and over. This is a subtle one that I wouldn't think another man would even notice. And, I'm particularly sensitive to this one since I'm NOT a physically attractive woman. Someone on our board who is, like G or kml, might interpret this very differently.
I totally get why you guys are against him. It would be the same as the WW finding out about DB. It feels inauthentic and gamy when really all it i is guidelines to hopefully understanding the man/woman dynamic.
I'm not against him, per se. His target audience is obviously men. Because I'm not one, I see things differently. One of the other things that stuck out to me was where he talks about not taking advice on women from women because they can't even tell you what they want (paraphrasing) and it pisses women off sometimes to hear that. No, it doesn't piss me off so much as, again, just seems like you are coming across as a condescending jerk saying hey, women are stupid, don't listen to them. For me, I think I don't care for the book, as a whole, because it is just way over-generalized. I get that a book in that format kind of has to be because if he tried to be specific about every type of man and every type of woman in every potential situation, the book would be 10,000 pages long. But, in his generalizations, it always seems that the man comes out portrayed as the smarter, savvier, more pulled together part of the equation and that just isn't always the case.
Honestly, I don't disagree at all with any of your interpretations. You interpret from your own experiences and I interpret from mine and I think that is why we see them so differently. I would actually love to have a group of people (both men and women) read this book then do a book club style evaluation where everyone talked about their own interpretations because I think that would be every bit as educational as reading the book and helping to understand the male/female dynamic. I have learned a great deal from the things that you all have said about it. It is all very interesting, but as I have said many times, people just fascinate me.
Oh and as to your last comment about it feeling inauthentic and gamy....BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Well Dawn if you can get me, you, G, J9, DH, JuJu and Andrew together it would be very entertaining to say the least.
Have a good weekend!
Oh and as to your last comment about it feeling inauthentic and gamy....BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You see I agree just like DB is in the beginning. Until it comes natural.
Well Dawn if you can get me, you, G, J9, DH, JuJu and Andrew together it would be very entertaining to say the least.
Have a good weekend!
LOL...I have had NO luck in figuring out how to find anyone IRL. I am the world's worst with hints (both giving and receiving) so that I don't know if I can make that happen, but if I can ever figure it out, I'll definitely take you up on it. It would totally be entertaining. I'll have to think on that.
You have a good weekend as well.
Sorry for all the hijacks, J9...hope your weekend is good too!
That’s like saying that Michael Jordan only needed to practice and didn’t need/want to showcase his abilities in a game or didn’t enjoy being on the ultimate stage. That’s ok coach I just want to practice, I don’t need to play in front of millions of people. Screw that, that’s why you hone your skills, put in the work, get up at 5 am and hit the gym, have gainful employment, increase your sexual market value. It increases your confidence in all aspects of your life which in turn increases your confidence with whatever sex your into. So when the time is right your game is tight and all of your practice and work pays off.
Wow, I found this very interesting. Joseph I really need to say yet again I'm not trying to bust your chops here. Plus it's not like I have a lock on solid, grounded, authentic self. I just find it really interesting how you compare meeting the love of your life or at least meeting someone you want to have a meaningful R with to Michael Jordan and basketball. Yet, I've kinda of seen this in you and have tried to flush it out. I think others have too. For you it really does seem like a game or at least like a performance. You've tried to hone your game or your performance skills and as you say it your sexual market value. What would the doctor say if she read this? Would she run? And I don't think it's you deep down but it clearly is the surface you. Maybe someone else can put better words to this but it really hits me. Again my way is the right way but I would just hope to meet someone that I really enjoy and who enjoys me. It's not about honing skills or market value or how I display. Is this making any sense?
I guess what I'm trying to say is it seems like you are so focused on your presentation and on your market value and all of the effort that you are not enjoying the game. It's still all about the performance. How you're received and seen. I think that's why you talk very little about how you feel about any of the women you've dated and nearly exclusively on how they look and how much they are into you. Are you seeing that at all? Perhaps if you step back and read your own words do you get what I'm saying? I can't help but see some aspect of you wanting people to say "Look at who Joseph landed. Look at the hot woman he's with." Much like fans would say "look at Michael Jordan play. Did you see how he made that three pointer with two guys on him." A basketball or band performance is just that - a performance. Dating should be much different. Yet you seem to see them as much the same. Again, I might be the one missing it. I just wonder.
Havent read anyone elses responses yet, only briefly skimmed - but will later - but a few things jumping out at me...
Joseph, this isnt divorce busting. Dont treat her like you are divorce busting her. That is not gonna make her feel safe or connected. The theory that women are more attracted to guys that are not that into them is really far founded. The only women i knw that respond to guys like that are girls like WG. Your doctor is more educated and confident.
Never read the book either. Just to expand on Dawns post...i think that any piece of advice that categorizes women in order to "manipulate" them in to liking them or sleeping with them or dating them is condescending. Remember all that advice to "neg women" based on their number rating? "Negging" is the term and if you havent heard of ot, google it. The things some of you say, reminds me of that.
Its condescending because you are not treating women like human being's with unique preferences and dynamics and feelings. Instead you are coming up with instructions like your following a recipe from a cook book, and its just 1970s pick up line corny. Just get real. You like someone tell her. She will be flattered. If not, shes not for you.
Never read the book either. Just to expand on Dawns post...i think that any piece of advice that categorizes women in order to "manipulate" them in to liking them or sleeping with them or dating them is condescending.
OMG!!!!!! I would pull my hair out if I had any. It is not a pick-up book!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why would anyone not want to be their most attractive self for the dating world or in life? The basketball reference has to do more with putting in the work and not reaping the benefits. Practice is putting in the work, the training, the eating right, lifting weights. The game is where you reap the rewards of all your efforts. No different than putting in the work for dating, your job, your personal life, etc. You put in the work so when you want that promotion you can get it, when meet the right girl you can date her, when a friend or family member needs help you can offer sound advice.
Why would you not want to be open to learning, growing, and developing yourself to succeed in life? Your in a band and I bet you have practiced for zillions of hours to hone your craft. That is no different than anything else in life.
Ju...going against what I have read we havechatted every day this week either via text a couple of times a day and we did have 1 hr long phone conversation on Wednesday. She has started to initiate more with reaching out on Wed and this morning. So it does seem to be working where as before she was not initiating at all. I am just trying to find the balance because it really goes against everything I have read.
Man, I miss all the action now while I am at work.
First, we all know how I feel about the coach in general. ANd now I see this?
"The wonderful truth is that if you treat a woman properly and allow her to come to you at her own pace with minimal and simple actions on your part, she will do most of the chasing, calling, texting and pursuing! That allows you to focus on what’s most important in any man’s life, your mission and purpose!"
So a woman's purpose in life is to chase call and pursue while the man is busy fulfilling his purpose in life? WTF? This is the douchiest statement I have ever seen! The man sits back taking care of himself while a woman chases him?! Now I really really dislike coach. I have a feeling the only women he attracts are Barbie type ditzes who need a man. A smart, independent educated woman? Most likely not.
Dawn was may more classier and forgiving expressing her opinions, me not so much today. I'm tired,
What "scientific evidence" shows a woman becomes more interested when a man is unclear on his feelings? Are these peer reviewed evidence based scientific medically supported experiments?? I highly doubt it.
J- I have told you over and over again that you need to put the Fing books down and stop treating this like a job, a skill, or a science experiment. You need to be way more authentic and stop treating a beautiful woman like someone you earned because you get up and go to the gym at 5am and look good. People who chose not to use their time that way can attract physically attractive partners too. Drop the surface stuff, Be vulnerable but not stupid. Stop having dating be such a project. Just be authentic!~ If you are excited to see her, tell her! It's nice to hear! I find it about a kazillion times more attractive when men are clear about their feelings and aren't afraid to express them.
And when is the time right to date again? When you aren't dating for validation and because it is an addition to your already awesome life. ANd you should be pretty much completely over your ex.
There is a poster on newcomers who is clearly seeking validation from women when he isn't divorced, still holds a huge torch for his wife, and somehow all of a sudden pretends like he doesn't care about his wife because some hot professional woman is into him. That is not the time to date.
Ju...going against what I have read we havechatted every day this week either via text a couple of times a day and we did have 1 hr long phone conversation on Wednesday. She has started to initiate more with reaching out on Wed and this morning. So it does seem to be working where as before she was not initiating at all. I am just trying to find the balance because it really goes against everything I have read.
I bet if you never read this stuff, you wouldn't be questioning your communication. ANd it seems to be helping, not hurting, your communication.
R talks shouldn't be happening on the 6th date. Communicating more should however, and that is. So things are good right now. Relax!
Never read the book either. Just to expand on Dawns post...i think that any piece of advice that categorizes women in order to "manipulate" them in to liking them or sleeping with them or dating them is condescending.
OMG!!!!!! I would pull my hair out if I had any. It is not a pick-up book!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
He's advising you to NOT say "i look forward to seeing you". Thats like, basic common courtesy. I would say that to anyone that i was meeting on a social visit. Hell, i would say that to the person i went on a job interview with.
If I ever go back on OLD, i am going to put in my profile...
"I do not have any strict criteria for a potential match. Just would like to meet someone that follows a strong moral compass, and does not follow any crazy dating books for men in order to get to know women"
Well I will start to tell her and let her know more about how I am feeling. As far as reaching out though I have been doing it once a day either in the morning or night depending on what I have going on. We usually exchange 3 or 4 messages back and forth. I just don’t want to blow up her phone and I am not sure what frequency she prefers. She is always quick to respond and when she initiated on wed night I asked if I could call her later which I did. Today we chatted a bit this morning, she asked how my oldest was doing but I haven’t spoken to her since. Just trying to find the balance.
Ok. Sorry LH19. I read up again. Coach did not say not to say "i look forward to seeing you". Who even advised against this?
I think it was a good analogy to compare dbing books to dating books. In hindsite, i dont think the DBing books were good for me. Quite opposite actually. They didnt quite apply to my situation, more to a marriage in trouble without a lying, scumbag, addict in the picture.
But i followed it because i was scared and desperate and didnt trust myself. I didnt trust myself. That was the issue.
To be successful in dating, i think one just has to have trust and faith in themselves. No rules. No recipes.
Juju,
It's all good. I think it came from one of J9s posts out of context.
Its weird I am not sure why I get so defensive about it. Probably because the book changed my life at a time when I really need it.
Hey, J, what frequency do YOU prefer? SHe is looking for you to lead, so why don't you lead with something that you prefer? See how she feels about that? Please don't lose sight of your wants and needs. You don't always have to be trying to figure out what is right for the other person and pretzel into that. Figure out what is right for you too. Have fun on your date tonight. It sounds like a date I would love.
LH, I mean this as an honest question. How did you feel the coach helped and saved you when you needed it? Did he give you confidence with women you thought you lacked? Did he make you feel more comfortable about dating? I don't mean to bash someone that helped you. But now that you got a broad view of dating and women from a man's view, us women are here to help too. A good portion of the things he does say is not particularly applicable to the type of women you would like to date. Grown-up women with careers, kids, ect., aren't going to be captivated by his techniques. Perhaps he gave a nice general approach to kick start, but I think you might end up attracting the wrong women if you use his book like a bible. and his word like a preacher. You seem to be a pretty funny intelligent guy. I know you also like very beautiful women, but I am sure you can attract physically beautiful women who also have their crap together and have such a full life that they aren't going to chase, but sure as heck will date a decent guy.
Joseph,
Your threads click off 100 postings/replies quite quickly. Please start a new thread and link both threads together. Thanks!
And when is the time right to date again? When you aren't dating for validation and because it is an addition to your already awesome life. ANd you should be pretty much completely over your ex.
There is a poster on newcomers who is clearly seeking validation from women when he isn't divorced, still holds a huge torch for his wife, and somehow all of a sudden pretends like he doesn't care about his wife because some hot professional woman is into him. That is not the time to date.
G,
I think I know who you are specifically talking about. There are also a couple of guys and gals doing similar things over on newcomers. Trauma cases that I think will probably fall into repeated mistakes.
sorry for the question but I can't possibly dig back through J9's gazillion threads. What's the name of that book?