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Coming out of the FogSo its middle of the night here. Literally, i just woke up from a dark and twisted and very realistic dream. My texting is bad and filled with errors to begin with, so please bare with me.now as Im half asleep.
So, my dream was dark. My son was there. Himself. A child in the background that i was aware of but with that laugh and hyperactivity that actually might be anxiety and nerves cause he knows something is up but is trying to laugh.
My ex's mother is there. And i am screaming and yelling at her. I am trying to get her to see my pain. I am trying to tell her how bad her son treated me and she wont hear me. She won't admit it. And i am yelling at her that she has been through this too. That her son treated me so bad. She is acting like i am crazy. Not letting go. Not accepting. She just wants to take care of my son. I am trying to find info about his current girlfriend from my ex mil. She tells me she new gf is not as patient as me. I say, "you meam shes trashy?" And she says yes. (I do not know anything about his current girlfriend. I dont believe he was cheating on me with her. I just know she has a young girl that they occasionally go on a trip with.)
Then there is a Group of people. Police detectives, my ex and a trashy looking girlfriend. (In my dream i am relieved when i see she is not better then me.) I am yelling at my ex and he looks so good in front of every one.. i look crazy.
I cant find the paperwork and everyone is doubting me. My ex is being really calm and seems so nice to everyone. Including me. He sees how upset I am and he tells me that he will answer all of my questions honestly. He decides to do this so I will have closure. He seems sorry in this dream. It seems like i am about to get all my answers and im not sure what to ask first. Then we go together and i find all the paperwork that prooves he was being shady with me.
For some reason me and the detective talk about females that were being murdered years ago. It involved a serial killer in the area i live.. I tell them one of my patients was murdered . That i remembered her many years ago from the beginning of my case. I told them I wasn't dumb. Thw detective said "yes. We put that patients story in your case" and they told me she was killed by an abusive ex. Not the serial killer.
We were all sitting around a table and i am about to ask my questions. I have all my proof. And then i decide i dont want to hurt my ex. I dont want to expose him. And i immediatly wake up. (As im typing i realize i didnt eant to expose him in the courts either)
Ok. Back to reality now...
This dream came because my ex has a girl friend that he took to a wedding this weekend. My son told me how his dad and this girl drove to the wedding in a separate car from him and his grandmother. My son hadnt spent the weekend at his dads in 2 weeks because his dad needed to switch. My ex told me he had to work on friday so didnt want son earlier.
My ex told me about the wedding and i asked who would be driving my son. (I worry about weddings and drinking). Ex told me his mom would be driving him and son. So ex lied to me and i dont really know why at this point. He could have just told me "my mom will drive son" and it would have been enough and honest.
When he dropped son off, he looked sad and upset. Hard time facing me. But that could also be because he did not have the child support check or the past 2 checks of his share of childcare. I sometimes like to think he is sad because of me, but its most likely due to having to give me money. Or not having money to give me. I probably project and i interpret it as guilt, but it might be sadness for himself having to give me money.
Why did him having this girlfriend bother me still? He doesnt put our son first. He just gets a small bit of knowledge about son and tells me or the teachers about it to feign involvement. For example, he made a point of inserting into a conversation with teacher "yes i notice that too when i help him with his homework"
But he only sees him 1 evening a week.he cuts it short to about an hour and most of the homework is done by the afterschool program. Today upon drop off he made sure to tell me how proud he is of son cause son donated toy. But thats just being said to show me he spent time with him, when i know through my son it was his grandmother that spent most of the time with him.
Thats not someone with a good character.
I dont understand why i still am holding on. Im with someone that loves me. Someone that took care of his daughter by himself through some really rough stuff. He was there for her. He accepts me. I can be myself with him. I feel safe with him. I know hes different from ex. But i am still upset over ex.
Thank ypu. I lnow this was a long post.
But this dream felt so realisyic and was just very dark. I was shaky when i wole up.
Hey JujuB....this is the beginning of some new shift...this is the beginning of letting go. The unconscious is attempting to resolve. Let it wash over you. You will find peace if you can let everything fall where is needs to, just for now. Breathe through it and welcome it, it has been a long time for you. I am excited about what comes next when you no long have psychological and emotional binds to ex. Be Brave. We are here for you xxx
So i dont know why my shifts seem to take so much longer then others. It could be because i never had definitive proof of anything other then that my ex left me. Dont even know for sure if he actually cheated. Although based on every other wayward he probably did. So maybe its because i just never had that knowledge of what really went down. Or perhaps i am a bit mentally unstable (you would never guess if you worked with me or of we went out for drinks though) or perhaps i am just deeply sensitive.
He left in the summer of 2015 and i still feel very deep emotions. So i guess i am not surviving as well as most on this forum.
But i did have another shift i would like to share.
I was thinking about how lucky my ex is. How he gets away with mediocrity. He knows how to seem involved in his sons life with minimal statements to me, or his mother, or the teachers and everyone things great things about him.
I have mentioned this before... he would do great on OLD because he looks like a great catch on the surface. (Which is why i denounce the superficial stuff so frequently)
Anyway. I was revenge fantasizing (i know i should be beyond that) about the world discovering who he really is. Maybe he gets called out for a DWI or publicly hits rock bottom. And i realized, i dont want that to happen to him.
My son has it hard enough, dealing with a dad that is a bare minimalist. My son is already set apart by his issues, and living in a wealthy neighborhood with his single mom living with her parents. Why would i ever want my son to be subjected to that type of humiliation so that i could be validated???????
This was huge for me. It does not mean i will befriend ex and do things with him fornmy son's sake. But at least i am now wishing evil.
I know you guys are all past this and indifferent and on to dating and new hobbies and careers. But im carry these huge divorce weights on my shoulders.
Hey Juju!
I just wanted to drop by and let you know you're not alone with the deep emotion thing (and the revenge thing). There are a lot of things I'm still in the process of doing.
The other day I was starting on my tax return for the past year and going through the email receipts I needed to print out. For some reason it turned into a clearing out my inbox/filing old emails from the time XH left (October 2015) and just after. It was something I hadn't done yet, but had wanted to do.
Anyway, the feelings were awful, absolutely hideous, like I was right back reliving those first six months. Except I was also noticing just how many emails I hadn't responded to, including work ones. And I probably missed out on quite a bit of work as a result. Oh well, it's passed now. And I've sorted my emails.
The way I've dealt with it is just to train myself not to look backwards to my past life when I notice my attention start to wander. I've been very, very deliberate about it. It's not been easy, for sure. But it has got easier the more times I do it.
For yourself, I guess it's about keeping the focus on yourself and your children and your (plural) future. But not extending it as far as your X.
I don't know if that makes sense?
My ideas of revenge are limited to public humiliation of my XH via FB and letting the world know exactly what he did. Funny thing is, I'm sure that everyone in the industry that we both work in knew what was going on before I did, so it wouldn't be news to them...lol!
And if I did that, I would be giving him some of my attention, and that's not what it's about. The focus is on me now.
Hope that helps a bit.
Thanks focus. It is true that i need to be better trained in learning to refocus those ruminating and obsessive thoughts.
There is always a trigger. There is also some safety in being reminded of what a horrible person he was, when i go soft. Or blame myself.
I found out about a woman running a daycare in my neighborhood who has someone living in her house with a very old criminal record (involving minors) and a psych history. I was reminded of how my ex was trying to push me to go back to work full time, even though it made no sense from a financial standpoint. And it certainly was not in my sons best interest. Son was 3 orn4 at the time. My ex actually told me i would be more attractive to him if i was more ambitious. His goal was to get me working full time so he would pay the least amount in child support.
This one act of selfishness regarding my son makes me hate my ex so much. He is a bad person because of that. I will never forgive that.
It also makes me realize what a great mom i am because i never ever considered doing something i thought was not in my sons best interest to keep my husband.
But the point of this story is that i am having trouble letting go of these triggers. Yes they are lessons and warnings that i should never ever trust my ex. But it hits me emotionally
I think you've made huge progress in recognising these triggers. You probably didn't even totally understand it at the time, I'm guessing? You maybe had a gut feeling, but couldn't quite put it into context?
If you're anything like me, I have a very strong gut feeling about certain people/situations, but I also need the intellectual understanding that acts as a framework and validation for those feelings. That can sometimes take me a while and a little digging and thinking things over.
At least, that's how I've been in the past. I think now I'm more likely just to act on those gut feelings and move forwards without hanging around for the intellectual validation. I guess it's about learning to trust myself more? And also learning that not everyone processes things the same way as you do, and there are things you can learn from different ways of processing things.
I've noticed that I start to feel very down when I go over the alcoholic thing, again, hoping to gain some sort of further understanding and enlightenment. I can feel myself getting very down and energy draining away. And I can sense myself slipping into old ways of thinking/feeling/being. I can totally feel myself giving up my energy and power to my old way of being and my world feels like it's shrinking again.
Strange thing is, that world feels very, very familiar and somehow easy. Like I can let go of the almost permanent effort it's taking me moving forwards and sink back into...into nothing much.
When I'm here, I need to make a decision. What more am I going to learn at this point? Digging further into trying to find out stuff and gain some more understanding. It is what it is, as they say, and my future doesn't lie in looking backwards. I have to believe that I am worth more than what my old patterns of thinking/feeling/being taught me. I have to drag myself out of this...dunno...quagmire, for want of a better word.
And so it's about keeping moving forwards, outwards, upwards and not allowing yourself to shrink back. Because the price of shrinking back is high, too high a price for you to pay. So really it's about self worth, believing in yourself and trusting yourself.
So i dont know why my shifts seem to take so much longer then others. It could be because i never had definitive proof of anything other then that my ex left me. Dont even know for sure if he actually cheated. Although based on every other wayward he probably did. So maybe its because i just never had that knowledge of what really went down.
Yes he cheated - okay? A guy who just leaves because he's unhappy in the relationship doesn't do all that other stuff and doesn't stop being a good father.
Maybe it would help you to understand more about what's wrong with your ex if you did some reading. I know that my friend who helped me see my ex's narcissistic traits after the divorce really helped me to see my whole marriage in a different light. You might try reading The Sociopath Next Door, it's a short book and frankly, I think it oversells its premise a bit but some of the stories may seem familiar to you.
And as for moving on - the way to move on is to start doing things to move forward. I know you feel tremendous pressure, being a single mom and living with your parents and just generally not being where you'd like to be at this age. But your future starts today. I recommend you make a vision board of the life you would like to be living in ten years. Then start trying some new activities to make your life RIGHT NOW more interesting, filled with friends and energy. The more of that you have in your life the less you will think about your ex.
PS, I'm sure you already know about her, but I've been reading Chump Lady. Oh my, does she make me laugh
OMG - I never heard of Chump Lady before, just looked her up - looks hilarious!
I only recently learned about CL and i wish I discovered her earlier.
A part of me really wanted it to just be drugs and alcohol that caused my ex to leave us. That I was about to discover financial craziness, so he bailed first. I could accept that from him more then infidelity. If it had been infidelity i would have sought intense crazy revenge. I know myself. He knows me. So yeah, it would be smart of him to keep that a secret.
My ex had erectile dysfunction. It was horrible. He had it maybe 3 years into our relationship when things were good as well. I remember thinking it was cigarettes or due to weight gain or work stress. But sex was never that enjoyable for me because it was all about making sure he was able to maintain an erection. And when he did get one he was like so friggen proud. I could never come out and say this because then it would have made it worse and he would have been more stressed about it. Sometimes it would be impossible for him to orgasm. i guess i figured if he had ed and sexual problems with me, less of a chance of him even being capable of an affair. The more i learned about opiates and alcoholism the nore i realized the 2 go hand in hand.
I trusted my ex completely. So infidelity is a huge huge blow and shock. Even to this day, when i think of it i become internally enraged.
But his actions were so similar to everything described in CL and here on these forums. I am completely in the dark about anything regarding women. Even the woman he is with now, she didnt see my son on my sons birthday and when they went to a wedding together, he went with this woman in a separate car from my son.
I know it no longer matters. I have my future to live. I am having a hard time figuring out how to have the future i want though. More then anything, i wanted another child. I feel robbed of that based on the timing with my ex. I think if i had another baby and family, i would still be mad, but not quite so robbed. If that makes any sense.
OMG - I never heard of Chump Lady before, just looked her up - looks hilarious!
I've read so much of her stuff, and it never fails to make me laugh and make me feel a million times better too.
I love the UBT she has going on *snort*
Juju, I totally get what you're saying.
It's the hopes and dreams you're robbed of as well, your innocence, trust in others, trust in yourself...so many things.
When I went out with the heavy drinker (briefly. He was my first date after it all happened, and mistakenly on my part we ended up going out for a short while)...anyway, when we went out and had sex, it was such a disappointment. The heavy drinking and the great deal of smoking he did really affected things. I remember thinking 'is this it?'. And shortly after, a few months into our brief R, he just seemed to lose interest in it all. I remember thinking that I didn't want to settle for that sort of level of disinterest. It was like he'd done the necessary to involve me with him on that front, and just stopped bothering.
So maybe that's an area for you to explore and have fun with at some point in the future? I'm not talking like next week, or next month, but you can have it as something that you want to have some fun with at some point.
The rage thing, yup...I feel that too. It's a useful source of energy I discovered. I use it to carry on taking me in the opposite direction to XH, as far and as fast as I can go. If I feel myself flagging, I go for a run/to the gym/read CL.
Have a think about the sort of future you want for yourself. I remember making a picture story board, with pictures and words cut out from magazines, that showed the sort of life I wanted. Ha...I'd actually forgotten I did that. It was so early on in the whole process. Anyway, I loved doing it. Some of it was total daydream stuff, and some of it I've actually done (just on a smaller scale to what was in my story board). Some of it was purely visual l and some of it was to do with how I wanted to feel. You don't have to show it to anyone, it's just of for you.
Something that's helped me a lot too has been to find what I am grateful for that's right under my nose. At the beginning it was really small stuff, like the conversation I'd had with the shop assistant when I was buying some groceries that afternoon, or that I could still take my time and enjoy putting makeup on. I still try and end the day with this sort of thing. It helps me focus on what is good in my life right now, as opposed to what I feel was taken away.
One thing, I do this stuff religiously. Every. Single. Day. There's no room for slacking or falling back on this, the price of that is way too high, and I'm not willing to pay it. Ever again. So every night I think about the stuff that's happened that day that I feel grateful for. Every morning I try and think about my day ahead, what I'm going to do and how good I'm going to feel at various points in the day.
I do get distracted by stuff, thinking about other people, how well they seem to be doing, or whatever...occasionally XH and the amazing life I think he's probably living with his much, much younger, more successful OW. But then I'm like, meh, they're totally welcome to each other. I deserve to be treated so much better than the way he treated me - which was ultimately a reflection of who he was. And then it doesn't bother me. And then I feel gosh darn lucky not to have to put up with any of that **** any more.
You have your beautiful children, your health, your future, and yourself. We lost ourselves in these crappy situations that we were in. We lost who we were. Isn't that a terrible thing to happen to a human being? So do the opposite: find yourself and in doing so, heal yourself.
Juju, sorry I haven't been on much. Life gets in the way sometimes. I just caught up with your situation and wanted you to know that I know you are stronger than this. I want you to read this message, close your eyes, take a deep breath and say "I am better than this, I am stronger than this and I WILL get through this." You got this girl.
Thanks for dropping by eye tie.
I am basically through this. But i am not indifferent yet. I dont want my ex back. Hes not a good person. But if i was truly indifferent, i dont know that i would still be on these boards. That i would still be googling "psychology behind men that leave thier families". That i would still be enraged when reading newcomers and CL.
My ex discarded me. In a cold way. There was never any doubt or attempt to reconcile or jealousy or temperature checking. He was gone. The only time he looks upset or teary eyed is when he gives me the child support check. And he does everything to avoid paying extracurriculars. . I actually have had episodes of anxiety and fear cause i would not put it past him to hire a hitman so that he wouldnt have to pay child support. Like when i hear stories of men like scott peterson and that hockey player that hired a hitman that killed his wife, i actually think of my ex. Hes not a violent person. But hes a guy that felt entitled to lead a double life. He views me as a mistake he made and regrets cause i hold him accountable.
I remember when i was pregnant with my son. We got into a fight because i was trying to hold him accountable. I was mad at him because he had these really expensive football season tickets. He would go on a sunday and use up vacation days the following day to sleep in. (I missed one day my entire pregnancy amd worked right up to 2 days before i went into labor because i was trying so hard to save all my sick and personal and vacatuondays to use after my son was born. Im a physical therapist. My job is physical)
Furthermore, he would rent a suv so that he didnt have to tailgate in his bmw at the time. I was mad about him spending money. And i was mad that he wasnt setting up a nursery. At that point i was nearing the end of my pregnancy and not really wanting to get out of the bed. Anyway during the argument, he took the book out of my hand and threw it at my stomach. That was the only time he was ever violent and it was a paper back book. But very symbolic. He obviously hid a lot of hostility for me. He even used the fact that i tried to throw him out back at me years later after BD.
But heres the thing. In front of the nurses during my delivery he was all teary eyed. In front of lawyers and his mom he got all teary eyed when i suggested he take son one evening a week (as if i had been alienating him that whole time and he was so grateful)
My son, who had seemed so resilient was talking to me about how sad this divorce makes him. He said he cant talk to his school pyschologist because he sees her on a day that its a long stretch till his next meeting with his dad and thinking sbout it makes him sad.
What he doesnt know is that its not divorce. Its his dad. His dad does not want more time with him. His dad seems him 1x a week for 1.5 hours and then picks him up saturday morning and drops him off sunday evening. Thats only if his mother is there. If not, he cannot take my son overnight. Hes not a deadbeat. Hes not really a disney dad. More of the bare minimal dad. He saves face to the lawyers, his mom. And i guess his friends and girlfriend this way, but really has very little accountability.
My 4 year old nephew was asking my son where his daddy is. My sons response was "he left and lies a lot and my mom had to divorce him" my nephew asked if he loves him and my son said "yes. Of course". (My son has no filter. And maybe this is why ex doesnt bring his girlfriend around son that much lol)
I just hate who my ex is as a person. My son deserved better. So did i. And im still mad about it.
Oh. And its not ever weekend that he sees him. Its every other weekend.
Juju, hope you have a happy holiday and Merry Christmas!
It's been a long, long time since I've posted on your thread in any meaningful way. Maybe a couple of years now? I'm not sure. Which is odd, because I used to post all the time. There was a time when you were in limbo, and during that time you were trying to figure out if your marriage was still savable, and if your WAH could possibly have valid reasons for needing to distance himself from you. But then the D was final and some of his deceptions got uncovered, and one day everything changed. It has been rage ever since. You've now diagnosed your WAH, assigned him the total responsibility for the breakdown of his marriage, and continue to screen more and more of your marital history for supporting evidence.
I guess I was afraid to post because I don't always agree but don't want that rage directed at me. I want to be free to share my own thoughts but was waiting for you to cool down a bit first so you were in a better place. But I think it's been a couple of years now Juju.
You have always been one of my favorite posters. I want to see the next chapter of your life be everything it can be. Well, at one point you said your anger has played a role in the loss of your marriage. It seems like it may be impacting your life right now. Who's signature is it that says "You can be right or you can be married?" The benefit of viewing your XH as the bad guy is you get to be right. The negative is you keep doing what you've always done and maintain a red hot anger which isn't fun for you or others. Now, I know these are DB forums, so maybe you don't breath a word of any negativity to anyone else, and then you just post here once in a while when you need to blow off steam, and as a result it comes across wrong. I get it J. But even still, my threads don't have the same tone as yours.
Is letting go of anger a goal of yours? Are you working with IC on this at all?
Were you like this during the M, or is this a new thing now that the M is over?
Is there something the anger is doing for you that you need it for?
I've missed talking to you and have a lot I'd like to catch up on.
Again, it's Christmas Eve and I hope you make it a magical day with your son!!!
I worry so much about you. From my perspective it seems as if your unproductive anger is robbing you of any joy in life.
Your ex is not something you can control. You cannot travel back in time to change everything that has transpired. Really sh!tty things happen in life. To everyone on different levels. Not one person I think is spared of it. It's just written in a different way in their life. What are you gaining from this anger? What have you done to ease it or stop it.
Is your son feeling your anger? I think we all have fleeing anger towards our sitches and our ex's. But is your anger fleeting or is it taking over all aspects of your life? I know sometimes we come here to vent and it's just that, a vent, then we feel better. Are you ever feeling better? What have you actively done to rid yourself of the anger rather than fuel it? because I think by the reading you have been doing, you are fueling it, rather than getting the answers you want.
Have a Merry Christmas with your Son. He's such a wonderful gift. You know it. Everyone knows it. Your ex is just self centered. It's his loss.
Thanks guys. I've been super busy with the holidays and son being off and work so have not been able to respond to some really good posts. But I have been thinking about them.
Ginger, I guess my anger is unproductive. No good comes from it and I have been told that continuing to go there is like picking on a slimy, festering scab so that it never heals. I know that life is not fair. That people are not treated fairly. That holocausts are real and that there are people suffering and children starving. I know that, but it is still there. I am still really really mad at my ex.
Now, i know to keep my anger a secret. I do not broadcast this anger to my coworkers or family. I especially do not let my son see it. You met me. IRL I am pretty sure I come across as softer spoken, easy going, nice to talk to. I am actually given the patients that other therapists cant handle. My boss knows that I wont get upset at the things others will. That I wont take it to heart and just do my job and move on. Most people will describe me as patient and very sweet with my son and other kids. (obviously I do lose it but it takes me longer) But this anger at my ex- or perhaps obsessive thoughts wake me up at 3 AM (often the time I post here) or enter while I am driving alone in my car. Or get triggered by an article or news feed. Like the thoughts that inspired my last post came from a article that popped up about that wife killer, Scott Peterson - which sent me into a panic. Because I started thinking how similar the lack of emotions were from my ex. How similar the images were. I am not joking when I write that I worry about hit men.
I think I just feel really traumatized. By how it went down. And by how he treated me prior to BD. I trusted him more then anyone. I shared everything with him. He was living a double life for years. I was a cover for him. Other explanation is its part of an obsessive issue - like some form of anxiety. That could be a possibility. I have been to ICs etc. And it never seems to be worth the money or time cause I do not get any real help.
Juju, hope you have a happy holiday and Merry Christmas!
It's been a long, long time since I've posted on your thread in any meaningful way. Maybe a couple of years now? I'm not sure. Which is odd, because I used to post all the time. There was a time when you were in limbo, and during that time you were trying to figure out if your marriage was still savable, and if your WAH could possibly have valid reasons for needing to distance himself from you. But then the D was final and some of his deceptions got uncovered, and one day everything changed. It has been rage ever since. You've now diagnosed your WAH, assigned him the total responsibility for the breakdown of his marriage, and continue to screen more and more of your marital history for supporting evidence.
I guess I was afraid to post because I don't always agree but don't want that rage directed at me. I want to be free to share my own thoughts but was waiting for you to cool down a bit first so you were in a better place. But I think it's been a couple of years now Juju.
Hey Zues. IRL, I am certainly not a raging, bitter, female version of Archie Bunker with an anti cheater agenda. I think we are both pro marriage. I believe we differ in that I do not believe in unconditional marriage. I believe that most LBS have been gas lighted and manipulated and abused and that the worst thing for them early on is to place the emphasis on what they needed to do differently in the marriage. (Although I agree that its important for them later on for personal growth and so that they have the chance at a successful relationship. I think its dangerous when they start thinking it was their actions that encouraged a spouse to cheat or do drugs or destroy a families finances) I think that a lot of the walkaways on here do have some sort of addiction or personality disorder. And that's putting it nicely. I do not tend to truly feel rage at another poster - unless they give me an impression that they are personality disordered. That they cheated on their spouse. That they are on here looking for attention from desperate LBS. And even then, its not really a rage. Its more of a feeling of annoyance. Point being made, is that I have never felt any rage for you or your opinions. I view you as someone that was also abused and manipulated by an ex and is just on here looking for answers and sharing growth with others.
You have always been one of my favorite posters. I want to see the next chapter of your life be everything it can be. Well, at one point you said your anger has played a role in the loss of your marriage. It seems like it may be impacting your life right now. Who's signature is it that says "You can be right or you can be married?" The benefit of viewing your XH as the bad guy is you get to be right. The negative is you keep doing what you've always done and maintain a red hot anger which isn't fun for you or others. Now, I know these are DB forums, so maybe you don't breath a word of any negativity to anyone else, and then you just post here once in a while when you need to blow off steam, and as a result it comes across wrong. I get it J. But even still, my threads don't have the same tone as yours.
The thing is, I am right. I was right all along and was being denied that by my ex. That is called gas lighting. And it was really traumatic for me. I believed I was abusive. I was a nag. I was asking for things well beyond what is the norm for a relationship. And guess what. I wasnt!!!...
I had a really tough delivery. I wont bore you with the details. But something was not right about it. After the delivery I kept going over it and over it and over it. I kept talking about it. Trying to make sense of it. Basically what happened, was the delivery nurse ( who was young) and doctor got into a big disagreement. The doctor wanted to proove the nurse wrong and did something that could have been really dangerous to me and my son. I remember another nurse came in and was actually hugging my nurse and telling her she was right after the doctor left. (BTW, the nurse was 100% in the right) But points being made: 1. People need to be validated when they are right. When they are dealing with big egos. Its for the good of everyone involved that right is right. Its not always a case of different perspectives when lives are affected. 2. It took me a long time to get over trauma. I needed to understand what actually happened. I know this is a long time. He left us in 2015. I am still trying to make sense of something that felt like a big whirl wind. i think, because I dont understand a lot of it
Is letting go of anger a goal of yours? Are you working with IC on this at all?
Were you like this during the M, or is this a new thing now that the M is over?
Is there something the anger is doing for you that you need it for?
These are great questions. I dont work with an IC. It was expensive and lots of listening to myself talk over and over. In my marriage, I think I put up with more then other women would have. I really believe that my ex is not going to have an easy time in a real relationship with someone. I am honestly not a difficult person to get along with. I was not unreasonable.
I've missed talking to you and have a lot I'd like to catch up on.
[color:#6666CC] Me too! Happy New Years.
Again, it's Christmas Eve and I hope you make it a magical day with your son!!!
I have indeed met you IRL and you are smart, witty, fun, beautiful. I believe those are all the things you truly are. I hate seeing you go through this obsessive pain. Have you tried medication? There are meds out there to help with obsessive thoughts. I have been plagued with them in the past and it can be all-consuming, even though we can be really high functioning.
I just don't think you should have to hurt anymore.
My ex is a high functioning addict. But I never really thought of myself as a high functioning nutcase. It kind of fits though. I went through this whole process without anything. No drinks. No meds. No anything. I relied on exercise. I think the answer is for me to get back to exercise.
Hi Juju
If it's any consolation, I still go through periods of rage towards my XH more than 3 years after BD. I know it's a consequence of me being a Justice Junkie and seeing him escape the consequences of hurting me absolutely scot-free. I've found a way to make myself feel a tiny bit better with a story that goes a bit like this:
If Judgement Day comes with a payment plan - let's call it a Sin Tax, payable in consequences or pain - I must be somebody who signed up for the "Up front" option. I seem to pay for all of my sins pretty much as soon as I commit them or immediately afterwards. The upside is that for the most part I seem to have managed to avoid really big interest bills, and I may even have benefited from some discounts. Admittedly, I'm pretty sure my biggest mistakes must've been made using the "Pay later" option judging by how I feel right now, but let's just say that on JD I'm going to be pretty much squared-up.
In contrast, XH must've signed up for the "Pay on the Day" option. I don't believe he has ever seen or felt the consequences of his behaviour towards the kids and me, seemingly sliding through life like a hot knife through butter. He is achieving his goals, making his dreams come true and all without alienating those he really loves (so far anyway). What he did to us appears to have gone entirely unpunished by life, by his sons, or by his friends. Three years out from shocking everybody in our world, anybody he cares about still loves and respects him. He sees as much of his children as he chooses. He does whatever he wants. Life absolutely loves him.
The Karma Bus may come along sometimes to pick up outstanding payments, and sometimes to collect them in advance. I think it's a fairly slow and unreliable service though, and it appears as though some folk manage to avoid it altogether. I'm pretty sure XH is one of those, but if he ever gets in its way, I suspect he'll have to fork out. If he doesn't, his bill on JD will be enormous. I won't care by then. It won't be my problem, that's for sure.
Anyway, developing this story helps me to deal with the rage I feel on the "it's not fair" days. It doesn't always work, and it requires belief in a system that is unlikely to actually exist, but for me it's an aid for learning that really hard life lesson - Life Isn't Fair.
You are not a nutcase!!!!! You are traumatized for sure.
hey, I don't know if it is healthy or not and I often try to think about why I don't care anymore. Am I truly over it? Or is my mind rejecting feelings over this because it would otherwise be too painful? Don't get me wrong, I rage with anger from time to time too. Especially the other night.
My ex doesn't suffer any consequence either. He got exactly what he wanted. It is what it is. One day he might, like DEVVO said. I don't want him to suffer consequences at the expense of my daughter either, though. He needs to stay with his wife and be faithful to her, because I can't have my daughter going through this again.
Do what you got to do to make yourself feel better and enjoy life to it's fullest. We only get one, and I hate to see that POS rob you of that.
I am definitely on the nutcase spectrum. I lied about my age and twins, but have always been honest about my mental status.
And devvo. Thank you for posting. Justice Junkie is my new favorite word. The nutcase factor does come into play though, cause lets say ex did experience some pretty bad karma - like public shunning or an arrest or job loss or being left alone after sickness. I would feel horrible for him and for my son.
I just want to know that i wasnt so easily discarded by the person i devoted my life to. I want him to live with remorse and regret over me. Thats the only karma i really want.
I want him to live with remorse and regret over me. Thats the only karma i really want.
I hear ya.
I know there are a few long-timers who think that this will eventually happen. I really hope so.
So i just woke up with a bizarre dream and want to get it written. It left me crying and disturbed and im not sure why.
In my dream, i woke up and thought i heard my parents coming home. I got up out of my bed, and got scared cause it wasnt my parents, it was my ex. We went into our old bedroom amd it had a different colored rug. My ex was talking to me like nothing put of the nornal. And in my dream, i was thinking that my reality...living with my parents, our whole divorce was just a dream. And i wqs so happy that it was the dream.
Anyway, ex was stumbling around and very drunk amd talking to me as a child would -telling me about his day and friend. He made a corny joke about his friend being a tacoholic. And i was just so happy to hear from him. He sat on my lap (which would never happen. He was almost 2x my weight) like a child and instead of me criticizing him, i was just so grateful for him and i hugged him amd remarked about how skinny he had gotten.
Anyone good at symbolism?
Just journaling. I know im way behind on being over my ex. Im surviving divorce. Just not thriving. You guys are just way ahead of me. Im not indifferent.
I think my anger stems from
1. He did a lot of stuff that someone should be angry at
2. It prevents me from feeling that deep pain of rejection, discardment, not being loved. Like logically, whi cares about not being loved by someone that did and does such horrible things.
Hes taking son away with his girlfriend and her young child. Upsetting, cause i was the one that always wanted to take trips. He would never have money to go, and i would end up paying to get him to go. When we went, it wasnt even fun cause i would have to wait hours for him to get ready, we would get to places late which is a waste of money. He would disappear all the time. I did all the packing and preparing. (For thisbtrip i will once again be doing the packing, as he does nit really have clothes for son)
My narrative was that ex was headed down for a trip to rock bottom. That drugs and alcohol were his demon and mistress. He had taken so much out of his IRA, had tons of cc debt,. But He has a girlfriend (probably younger cause she has a young child) and is going away places. How can that be?
This hurts me tremendously. He does not hurt. He did not have feelings for me enough to hurt, yet i obviously had them for him. Thats painful. And im having troublenunderatanding how i could have feelings, when he was so bad. He lied and squandered our finances. Will he do that with girlfriend as well?
You may have told us Juju but have you seen someone to work through all of this? People often have behaviors because there is a pay-off - that is they get something out of it. You are identifying at least part of the pay-off in that it prevents you from feeling the pain of rejection. I'm wondering if it's not coming up over and over again for you precisely because you've not worked through it. From what you describe H did not want to travel,with you. It's not that he doesn't want to travel. That has to hurt. How could it not? I also know it gets harder for you around this time of month. Then you feel better again for awhile but then it cones back. It's keeping you from healing.
If I remember correctly you may have said you've tried counciling but never got help. You may not have found the right help or perhaps you are so protecting yourself from the pain that it's not helping. It's not like it has to be you were wrong and he was right but I get a sense you want it the other way around - he was wrong and you did everything right. It's keeping you from moving on and I hate that for you. It's very possible and just as likely neither of you are 100% right nor wrong. It takes two for a M to succeed or fail. Obviously you can be loved as new guy does just that.
Hope those thoughts help a little.
Thanks don. Theres definatly a hormonal component to this plus some physiological issues that im wondering if are contributing, and im seeing an MD next week.
I never found help with counseling and i dont really have the time or the desire to spend any more money on it. I find that the really good counselors charge out of pocket and i cant spend like that. (The DB counselor was actually one of the best i ever talked to)
I am still sorting through stuff. My ex left 2015. But i never knew about the double life till maybe late 2017. So im still trying to understand, what the hell happened.
Of course i have my flaws. Im not this care free, easy person to live with. I suffer from anxiety and ive been called a hypochondriac. Ive had body image issues and im that insecure chick wanting affirmations that guys dont realize till a bit into dating me. Im disorganized and i am horrible at domestic stuff. I know that. But i was also loyal, and i am good at my job, and im a rational person and was willing to communicate and be a partner with someone, i was always supportive of ex, and a really good mom to his child. So why wasnt that enough? He doesnt just reject me. He does minimal with his son. So surely, it cant primarily be me?
My view of marriage was that its like family. You stay comitted and make it work, unless serious abuse or infidelity. That all people are flawed and annoying and dysfunctional. Yet because you are family you stay committed. So i am hurt that he wasnt committed. I was not happy in our relationship. He was not a good partner to me. And im having trouble understanding why he wasnt.
But yeah. I know. Hes left. So you work with cards your dealt and thats the key to happiness. I know that logically. Its just a hard thing to actually execute for me.
My ex is a high functioning addict. But I never really thought of myself as a high functioning nutcase. It kind of fits though. I went through this whole process without anything. No drinks. No meds. No anything. I relied on exercise. I think the answer is for me to get back to exercise.
You have given yourself the answer ju.
V
I am definitely on the nutcase spectrum. I lied about my age and twins, but have always been honest about my mental status.
Best quote I have ever heard in my life is “This above all: to thine own self be true. And it must follow, as the night the day. Thou canst not then be false to any man/Farewell, my blessing season this in thee!”
We are here to help, Juju. Be true to yourself and the rest will fall into place...
Just journaling. I know im way behind on being over my ex. Im surviving divorce. Just not thriving. You guys are just way ahead of me. Im not indifferent.
I think my anger stems from
1. He did a lot of stuff that someone should be angry at
2. It prevents me from feeling that deep pain of rejection, discardment, not being loved. Like logically, whi cares about not being loved by someone that did and does such horrible things.
Hes taking son away with his girlfriend and her young child. Upsetting, cause i was the one that always wanted to take trips. He would never have money to go, and i would end up paying to get him to go. When we went, it wasnt even fun cause i would have to wait hours for him to get ready, we would get to places late which is a waste of money. He would disappear all the time. I did all the packing and preparing. (For thisbtrip i will once again be doing the packing, as he does nit really have clothes for son)
My narrative was that ex was headed down for a trip to rock bottom. That drugs and alcohol were his demon and mistress. He had taken so much out of his IRA, had tons of cc debt,. But He has a girlfriend (probably younger cause she has a young child) and is going away places. How can that be?
This hurts me tremendously. He does not hurt. He did not have feelings for me enough to hurt, yet i obviously had them for him. Thats painful. And im having troublenunderatanding how i could have feelings, when he was so bad. He lied and squandered our finances. Will he do that with girlfriend as well?
As I took a few minutes this morning to go back nd re-read some posts on the board, as I do from time to time, this one struck me. I remember reading it when you first posted it and I meant to comment then and I obviously got side-tracked and didn't. But, you say you are "way behind" on getting over your ex. I don't think you are, though. EVERYONE gets over things at their own rate and when the time is right, you just won't feel things anymore. I totally identify with your situation in a lot of ways because my XH just walked away and never looked back and moved to D and then on to his new wife REAL quickly. In the span of less than 5 months, I went from married to separated to divorced to facing an XH with a new, serious, live-in girlfriend. I felt a lot of the same anger and feelings that you feel. While I survived and I'm thriving now, there was a period in time when all I truly wanted in this world was for his sorry @ss to burn in h3ll. I still hope the karma bus runs him smack over in the middle of the street then backs up and runs over him again for good measure, but I just don't dwell on it anymore. I have found my own things to worry with and someone who couldn't even be bothered to have an actual discussion with me about the ending of our marriage is NOT one of those things that I am going to waste my valuable time on.
You should totally feel all those feelings you feel and I thik, in time, you will find that those feelings lessen until you get to this point of indifference, for lack of a better word. If it weren't for my children and the thought that I would hate for them to deal with losing their father, I honestly wouldn't give a d@mn if he was even still on the planet.
Hang in there, juju, and keep on keeping on.
I am definitely on the nutcase spectrum. I lied about my age and twins, but have always been honest about my mental status.
Best quote I have ever heard in my life is “This above all: to thine own self be true. And it must follow, as the night the day. Thou canst not then be false to any man/Farewell, my blessing season this in thee!”
We are here to help, Juju. Be true to yourself and the rest will fall into place...
That was more of a joke with Ginger who i have met. Every once in a while i discuss my self description. I figured if someone i knew saw that i frequent the forums and wanted to find me, it makes it harder this way. They would have to read through a lot more and might dismiss me based on my description.
I am a pretty honest and self aware person. I often find humor in mine and others faults...(although not waywards. They just hurt too much)
Thank you dawn. Im not at that beautiful state of indifference yet. But some days are better then others for me.
I think i am scared at how easily i was discarded by someone. I mean, we were dating when we were both still in school. We shared history and hardships and that just meant nothing to him. I like to think that maybe it was the drugs and alcohol that allowed his brain to be capabale of leaving the way he did. He wouldnt pay me child support. He had been secretly depleting his account and building up cc debt for years. I had no idea.
The gaslighting damaged me a lot as well. I was never the type to be afraid to speak my mind in a relationship. I always stood up for what i though was right. I am not a personality that was going to do all the housework, work, and take care of son quietly, while ex slept till noon on weekdays and 3 on weekends. Ex's spending habits were concerning to me as well. I voiced and comunicated and expressed and complained and nothing changed things. And then after he left, i started thinking that was my issue. That i was abusive. That I deserved to be left.
Coming on these forums 3 years ago, did not empower me.
. Its not because of the posters. I remember Vanilla speaking out and telling me that my ex needed to hear my truth dart. Texashubby told me i was way to smart and deserved more then my husband. Mauricio told me my husband was not a man.
But there was (back in 2015 and still i think in the MLC section) this weird underlying sense of stepford wife syndrome that gave me doubt. I grabbed on to the, "i had caused 50 percent of the problems in our marriage and i needed to make 180s " that i didnt know how to just accept him. That "i didnt eat sh!t sandwiches" or "choosing being right over being happy" that i needed to do 180s and not complain about his not being involved, about his bad behavior. I argued it and debated it. I even once posted "im not an innanimate object. Why the hell do i want to choose to be a light house" but that sentiment still seeped in my brain for some reason.
But none of that is true. When your ex was lying by ommission and leading a double life for probably most of your marriage..there is no 50/50 division of responsibility. I was never given the chance to be in a real relationship. To know myself. Of course im not perfect, but there was nothing about me that warranted ex leaving.
But i am traumatized not just by my ex but by what i turned in to in order to reconcile. If that makes any sense.
This mentality kind of messed me up with dating too. I had to proove i was this nice, cool chick. Cause the real me was left cause I was out of line or too demanding of time and attention.
But i am not that person. I was never raised that way. So now i am left, figuring out who i really am. I dont really want to compromise myself to be in a relationship. I think i am starting to feel like, if theres nothing in it for me and i dont have kids with someone why should i ever compromise myself? I am tired of being nice and worried about other peoples feelings. Of feeling like i should have been better in my last relationship, and trying to be like that now.
JuJuB - That's a great post and excellent questions and they certainly make a lot of sense to me. I don't have the excellent answers to them - largely because I don't know you. The you that you really are.
It does sound like you are trying to find that person though.
I remember getting in to arguments here that I was me and that I liked me and that if my then wife didn't - well that was her problem and not mine. And that I certainly wasn't going to try to prove that I was better than OM.
The forums have certainly changed over the last few years and there is much less "blame the victim" happening I believe. I don't know for sure because I don't wander over to the Newcomers section very often. I do wonder if being here held me back as well. That if I'd tossed her @ss into the snow bank back in March of 2016 that perhaps I'd be much farther along than I am now. But it is what it is. Our respective journeys have made us who we are currently. We can look to grow beyond where we are but we can't change the past.
So I greatly agree. Do not compromise yourself. Yes - there is give and take required in any relationship but it should never be at the cost of self. But first we need to find and love that self.
I totally get what you are saying and I think in some ways our journeys are somewhat parallel in what happened and how it made us feel. My XH didn't have the addiction issues, but you could substitute his ongoing medical issues that ultimately allowed him to go on disability then use them as a crutch to kind of disconnect from life. It's a long story and maybe I am the only one who sees it, but I do see some commonalities between mine and yours.
While I love the DB forum for the fact that I feel like I learn a lot from reading and occasionally posting, I didn't necessarily feel empowered or even all that helped when I first came here either because it was all about GAL, 180 and reconciliation. I had to let the reconciliation part go, temper the 180 (because I didn't feel like I had necessarily changed a lot and it wasn't so much MY journey that led to my D as it was my XH's journey that led us there), but man I totally focused on GAL. My marriage couldn't, wouldn't, shouldn't have been saved and while I know that now, I had doubts of that in the beginning and I think that is why I ended up here to start with. Having said that, though, I do now see that I have gained some actual value from my participation here. I have lived in small towns prior to, during and after my divorce so actual support groups and real people to interact with and lean on are few and far between unless I want to drive 2 hours one way. I do not. So, I sought an online place that would allow me to express my issues and learn and I found that here.
I don't think you should compromise yourself, but absolutely you should continue to explore who you are and where you want to go in your journey. You are driving the ship, so to speak, so it is all about you now. And, that is a good thing!
On Andrew's thread you posted:
Also, just a general question for everyone dating following trauma.... how do you not go for the seemingly stable person over looks and other qualities. How come you guys dont have the same fears that i do? Arent you guys worried about dating another version of your ex? Or is that not a huge fear?
It's definitely something to be on the watch for.
The first guy I dated after my divorce was a Love Avoidant, which meant he wasn't truly available, but he was nicely different from my ex in most ways.
The crazy ex-bf that I dated for four years turned out to be living a double life.
I wasn't looking to remarry and frankly, nothing since my divorce could hurt as much as that did.
The only relationship that reminded me at all of my ex turns out to be my current one with CMM. He's turning out to be a lot like my ex in some ways and it's causing some friction. Some of it is just me because if he acts the least little bit like my ex I'm just like "I'm over it!". I know my extreme reaction is due to a bit of ptsd from my ex.
I meant to say, nothing since my divorce hurt as much as my divorce did. Crazy exBF was too weird to hurt.
KML.- i dont think anyone will hurt me like my ex did either. But do you think its because we just cant love like that again?
I think thats why i wanted another child so badly. Children i can fall in love with. To the point my heart physically feels it.
you guys reading that sure doesn't help me. you guys really dont think that you can love again ? I really dont wanna hear that . that suxs
IMO....I will find love again but I don’t think it will be in the same way. The love I had for my Xw was innocent, naive love. The i didn’t think you could divorced without talking about it love or working together through our issues. I am much more aware now and I don’t think I would allow myself to get comfortable again. I will add when I am on dates I do not think about my Xw. I will say though that the first time I held hands,got touched or was with someone other than my Xw that was a little weird. I am still getting adjusted to that.
Bubbs - im assuming that you are a newcomer? I want to clarify that i do not mean that i am still pining for my ex. He was a liar and a POS. I am ashamed for him.
I was presenting the question, can you really love someone again when you are no longer vulnerable to be hurt again.
I feel like the way I love now is different - but not in a bad way. I'm not looking for the intense validation of young love - that "omg he picked ME" stuff. Now I feel if someone doesn't love me just the way I am, I'm not interested.
And the love I have for others is different - it's clear-eyed. I see their flaws but love them flaws included. I can love them for existing in the world even if they didn't choose or weren't capable of being a lifetime love with me.
you guys reading that sure doesn't help me. you guys really dont think that you can love again ? I really dont wanna hear that . that suxs
Keep in mind when you read these posts that EVERYONE is different. Just because one person doesn't think they can find love or maybe doesn't even want to, doesn't mean that you can't/won't. Everyone heals and moves on at their own pace...the pace that is right for them. If you go back and read some of the posts here in this section, you will see how people have developed and grown and how their sense of the word love has been shaped and changed by their experiences.
There are plenty here who have found love and a few that choose not to, but again, everyone is different.
Juju, I think that is interesting the way you posed the question. Can you really love someone again when you are no longer vulnerable to be hurt again? I had to think about that when I read it because my gut instinct was at what point are you not vulnerable anymore? I think D makes one more cautious in looking for love again for sure. I think it makes us more selective and more open to the possibility of finality in a relationship rather than just tiptoeing through a relationship thinking it will never end because it is "serious". I think the only time I wasn't necessarily vulnerable to being hurt was when I was SO hurt by my XH that I just couldn't imagine ever being with someone else again. I went through a period of about a year post D when I wouldn't have dated if the sexiest man alive had shown up at my door and thrown money at me to get me to go. I would've politely closed the door and moved on. Even then, I was vulnerable, but not necessarily vulnerable to being hurt by someone else because I was still processing the hurt of losing my marriage, if that makes sense.
I agree with kml too....once I went through the D process, the love I feel now is different than what I felt before. I have a more open-eyed approach to dealing with people. I hesitate to say I'm a little more suspicious of people, but I guess that is technically what it is.
Thats a great post dawn. I can see though how dating will be extremely hard for awhile. The thought of it right now would make me sick to my stomach.
Jujub- yes i am new . I am still standing and haven't gotten D yet. So ya I couldn't even begin to think about dating or loving someone else.
Dawn, i think you are not vulnerable if you are a love avoidant or emotionally unavailable. I dont think you can just choose to be love avoidant though.
Right now, im not sure if im that or maybe just not with the right person or hormonal. Or a combo of both. I do have so much love for my son though that it hurts. So im not a sociopath or anything.
Im just kind of noticing, that i get annoyed feeling like i might have to compromise. That there needs to be something in it for me or a practical reason that benefits me or i am not happy and certainly not willing to give. I dont know. Its hard to explain. I dont feel this huge desire to make someone else happy anymore. When I was alone, i did. I would read recipe books and think about having someone to make things for. Or go places with. And now i dont feel that way.
So just wanted to post a bit about deception and dating and feeling deceived. Don mentioned feeling deceived from pics. That has not been a huge issue for me so hard to relate, other then height descriptions. I think i have little trust in the photos to begin with, and my attraction for a man comes more from communication and interaction then it does visual. The words written mean more to me then anything.
I have been feeling a bit bad about my relationship. Im up and down a bit. The positives are there. I am given every indication he wants a future with me. Toothbrush left in his home was offered early on, and I am given open invitation and a key if I wanted. Im the one holding back.
I feel a bit deceived though. When we first dated, he went all out. Now, not so much. ANd to me, its still early. Dates, presents, texts arent as frequent and really thought out or considerate anymore - yet in the beginning they were incredibly thoughtful. I felt bad because he gave me something for Valentines Day, that I remember him telling me he gave his ex wife. I know how rude and spoiled it sounds like to feel upset about a gift and I would never voice this. I put a lot of thought and time into his gift - I analyze and research and base them off of something he mentioned or a specific like or hobby and I felt bad that he gave me something that sounded exactly like what he gave an ex. There were no plans either, even though he knew I was coming by and I intentionally took less cases that day. For my birthday, he gave me the exact same gift that he did last year. It was nice. And I know it sounds ungrateful to complain about a gift. (GIfts are not even my LL - they are his though). I think my expectations were too high based on how he wined and dined me in the beginning but I am left feeling like this guy threw at me all this great stuff early on and now I feel like we have settled into that we have been dating 10 years pattern, even though its still early and we dont even hang out all that frequently . It went from one extreme to another. And i know it has nothing to do with him wanting to end things. More like he got too comfortable to fast with me and now it just keeps going down. Or was he deceiving me early on?
Or maybe I am superficial and entitled and had unrealistic expectations? I did not date enough either maybe. Or maybe I needed more time to heal and be by myself. At the time though my whole thought process was on returning to date, find someone and get my life back. Have another chance at a family and baby with someone. (i was 37 when ex left and it was right after a miscarriage)
A more positive update...
Everything else seems to be going well. My son has been thriving and I know that my involvement and research and consistent reaching out with the school and OTs/Social workers etc is the reason. He is most likely going to be selected into the gifted program. Living with my parents has actually been a great thing, and now I cant see any advantage to me leaving them to live with a guy. My mom helps out so much with my son. Its like the partnership I never had. I had forgotten about a valanetines day box for him to take to school - and she had it taken care of. I have also been saving money. And i am researching how to start my own side business into a niche area. It will be perfect if it takes off as I could keep my job with benefits and maybe earn more money then I am now with the same time. I do not have a business background though, so this has been hard to get going on. But I finally made the first move by reaching out to a non-profit state based small business advice agency. Im pretty excited about it. Its a really unique idea in an area I am pretty interested and experienced in. I think it has a lot of potential and Im surprised no one else is doing it.
Thing is I wanted more to be a family person, have another baby. But my path seems to not be allowing me this. Career stuff keeps opening up to me which Im not complaining about. Just commenting on.
Some one told me my problem is "I want, want want" and I never appreciate what I have. THat having another child is selfish and I need to put all my resources into my son. I get that. I really do. I just have so much love for my son. It is beyond anything I have ever felt or experienced. And I want more of it. But through a child. I don't know why just having him is not enough.
Sorry for the length of this one.
Whether your dating or married you should never stop courting your female companion. Sounds like he is getting lazy and falling into the pattern that many men do. Is your attraction for him declining? I imagine it is.
Yup. Its declining and I feel a lot of ups and downs.
Yep....men get lazy, stop courting, stop doing the little things........textbook. Unfortunately I learned the hard way..........
I read a book called Atomic Attraction that talked a lot about this.
So why is this a common thing with guys? It does make me feel deceived. Because there were plenty of other guys I could have dated. But he was treating me very nice and it made me not want to search. Now, I am thinking, whats the point? And while I had been doing nice things to reciprocate, I am kind of done right now. And I am thinking, if I feel like that this early (almost 1.5 years) whats keeping me? Its not like we have kids together.
They think they got their woman so they quit.
They think they got their woman so they quit.
Wow. J9 the philosopher. Who hit it out of the park with that one simple line.
I do presentations to sales people from time to time and one dynamic that I emphasize is that there are two types. The hunter and the farmer. A hunter will put in the effort and go out and land new accounts and then move on and get some other new accounts. A farmer will work hard on keeping the book of business that they have happy, nurturing it and trying to keep the standard order flow.
In business, because there is always churn in customers, farmers may prosper for a while but it's the hunters who earn the bonuses.
Relationships are different. You need a partner who takes an interest, who makes an effort to keep the soil fertilized. Men and women both get complacent when they feel that they've "won". And in my opinion that is one of the key things that can cause relationships to grow stale. I was married for nearly 30 years. And yes, she did run off chasing after her boyfriend who she seems to still not have caught. In the Disney version of my memories, each and every day I was amazed that she was there and loved me and I made an effort to appreciate that. The actual reality was undoubtedly more sedate.
BUT - not all relationships involve woodland creatures doing the housekeeping. The sparrows still haven't figured out how to properly fold the napkins here. We accept our partners for the people that they show themselves to be if that person is acceptable to us. JuJuB - if your new guy isn't showing a lot of imagination in being romantic, well, that's who he is. You need to decide if he is a good partner otherwise. Is there reciprocity? Is there respect? Are you willing to forgo the flowers and romance in exchange for (presumed) reliability and consistency?
Just my own opinion.
Good points andrew....J I concur with what A said. I think its something you have figure out if your willing to accept as most men dont have the knowledge to know any different.
Juju, I've heard you talk about your BF mch like this multiple times before. But I've rarely heard you say positive things. Now I'm not saying everything has been negative. What I mean is the positives have only come after and perhaps to balance the negatives. I've never heard you say how he did something that made you feel really good. Ive never heard you say you love him. I read Gingers posts and it's clear she adores M. At best you seem to tolerate your guy. I can't say why. In my short list is are you really into him? It almost seems like you're not that into him - as the book title goes. And perhaps he's just not the guy for you.
OTOH what are you bringing to the R? It almost seems like you are expecting him to do most of the heavy lifting. You want him to dote on you and put in all of this effort. But should you not be doing the same? An R should be 50/50 if not 100/100. Even the things he is doing he's not doing "right" or at least well - not good enough.
Does some of this relate back to your ex? I seem to remember you saying how you put huge effort into your exH. Are you afraid to do that again? I can tell you that for me it gets really hard to do nice things for someone if it's not reciprocated or not appreciated. Couid he be getting sick of trying since he's not getting anywhere anyhow? I know I would. A woman doing something nice for me really makes me want to return that. If it's appreciated by her I also want to do more. But if it's getting to be expected or it's not appreciated or worse yet put down, I'm like why bother. And I know you're perhaps not saying anything to put his efforts down but ll bet he can sense it.
Why are you staying with him? What is he doing that you really love? Is there anything? It really seems like either this R has ran its course or you were just never that into him to begin with. Either of those are okay. They don't make you a bad person. It's just dating and an R that's not for the long term. Do you look forward to seeing him? Are you excited to see him? Do you light up when you see him? Do you think about him when you don't see him? If you answer most of these with no, perhaps you need to talk with him about this. Does he know you're not happy? Does he think you are?
That's a lot of questions - meant to hopefully get you to think. It seems like you've gotten kind of blah about your R with him. But is that due to him or to you? I'm betting it's a little of both.
Hey Don,
I notice that huge difference between ginger and I as well. I do not really know if it’s the guy I’m with or just my personality or perhaps my perspective in general. I don’t think I am capable of being that into someone. Like, it would take me years to form an attachment or the desire to give more to someone I think. I’m not sure why...Ginger is a lot further out from her divorce so that could be part of it. But in general I view and approach men and relationships differently. (That being said, if my brothers were single I would have done my best to set them up with her. If I was a guy, I know I would have been smart enough to go for her). She is more of the giver in a relationship. I’m not. Like when things start to feel unequal, I get upset cause I resent giving more. I don’t think with my ex, that I gave more. that wasn’t our dynamic. He got away with more though and I notice and resent that.
It’s why I talk a lot about more kids. With my son, I put him first and have a very selfless and unconditional love for him. Possibly with an animal as well. I like that feeling but I get annoyed and bogged down with a partner And I don’t really understand why. Is it me, or just not the right guy. I don’t know. I am the type that learns my lesson. I was badly taken advantage of in a very early relationship before my ex so that could be it as well.
Now with this guy, when he gave a lot in the beginning I did reciprocate. I’m not looking to be a taker or to take advantage of someone either. I put a lot of thought and time in my gifts. I also do not ask for much in terms of favors or help. When we go out to eat I order very inexpensively and offer to tip (he orders expensive stuff). . I will pay For the activity if I invite him
I looked more forward to seeing him earlier on when he was inititiaitng more. I think about him but more in a am I making the right choice sort of way. In the beginning I was more positive. I think ever since that trip I have had my guard up and I am looking at more of the potential red flag stuff. I do pay attention to positives, But in an analytical way. I am worried that did I focus to much on the positives in the beginning and refuse to see the negatives until now?
Sometimes I read the stuff on here from many of you guys, and I hate to say this but I honestly worry that the guys I meet will be like many of you (with the exception of Andrew).... looking for a woman to date and take out when they need a companion but not looking to establish a family,or liking the hunt and then not being quite as into them once they reciprocate. It makes me feel safe with my BF, cause I know he is looking for the woman that he can grow old with. I know that he is more of the loyal type. I’m just worried about compatibility maybe? I don’t know. I did not date as much as I should have either because I liked him in the beginning.
Idon’t mean to insult you guys either. I know that what you all say is the reality of how many men feel And it makes sense for you to think that way from a practical position. I just know that I would go out of my way to avoid men like that if I could and it scares me that it could be a pretty prevalent way of thinking
Sometimes I read the stuff on here from many of you guys, and I hate to say this but I honestly worry that the guys I meet will be like many of you (with the exception of Andrew).... looking for a woman to date and take out when they need a companion but not looking to establish a family,or liking the hunt and then not being quite as into them once they reciprocate.
Hey there! Don't put so much pressure on me. I'm not perfect. My f@rts smell really really bad if I've eaten onion soup for example.
I do agree though that there is a lot of variability in people. Both men and women. And quite a few of them are left up on the beach for valid reasons so finding a good one when you are dealing with a mature selection can be as hard as finding a piece of ambergris on the beach. As people will say "all the best ones are taken" - is undoubtedly especially true especially once you get past about 35 years old.
But we can still hope that we can find those people who can complement us and who we hope aren't too badly damaged by the rough handling that most mature singles have gone through.
I'm sorry - he didn't make any plans for Valentine's Day, gave you the same gift he gave his ex, AND gave you the same birthday present he did last year?
Nope. You're not entitled, you're seeing red flags.
Now -as for giving you the same thing as the ex - that's actually the thing that bothers me least. Often people seem to want to re-experience favorite places and things with their new partner that they did with their ex. I don't think that's laziness - more a misdirected attempt to share who they are with you.
But the other things? Nope.
I've got a terrible association with crappy Valentine's Days - but the one time I mentioned it to a partner (my crazy exBF) he went out of his way to give me a lovely Valentine's Day. Maybe you need to just speak up about what you want? That in the future you want presents unique to you, and expect plans for Valentine's Day. His response may tell you a lot
I'd like to comment a bit on the courting thing. First, Juju, I am humbled as you gave me the highest compliment. setting me up with a family member truly humbles me. Thank you!
As to why I seem open to love. I think because I am still desiring my first real love. My first real R. Yes, I was married. Not for long and it was pretty much never good. It was me trying to get my husband to love me and treat me like family. Never happened. SO I guess I want the real thing. It sure has taken me a long time and found something pretty wonderful I look forward to keep nurturing. Or perhaps I am simply a fool to let myself feel deeply. I let myself feel love, but I am afraid to feel so much pain anymore, I probably have ignored lots of stuff I shouldn't have. This time around I have been very cautious and aware with my feelings.
On the "I've won them so I can stop" theory. I think this is why I don't find too much value in someone wining me and dining me so heavily in the beginning. Getting used to something that cannot be maintained is setting me up for a big let down. I don't even think I have had an R long enough for the dating to die out, lol. When I do something nice for and with M, I don't do it to win them, I enjoy it. I would hope a guy who dates me actually enjoys the dating part, doing stuff for me, and doesn't just do it to "win" me. I enjoy doing that stuff for my partner, but it has burnt out because I give so much, that getting nothing in return wears you down. M was never over the top. We have always had a good balance of dates, who's treating and doing stuff for eachother. He's never tried to "win" me, I think he just tried ot get to know me and enjoy spending time with me. Which has been nice.
I also think everyone can communicate more our needs. I certainly stink at that, but I am learning to do so.
Oh, and by the way, my ex used to blow holidays out of the park. Every other day of the tear, he treated me like crap
Oh, and Juju, I see what you are saying after reading about the guy on here. No offense to you fine men, but here we are seeing how looks seem to be trumping all for some of you, and how dating is practice. It made me realize, I was "practice" to a few guys Trumpet guy? I was total practice and "trying something different". It felt pretty cr@ppy. I get when there is a mutual agreement of just sex or no desire for anything serious. But if I definitely see there have been men definitely "honing their skills" on me rather than having any real intention of dating me. I am much more aware now of those possibilities.
I would say that I would never date someone and use them as practice. If it was one date or two dates and it didn’t work out then I would consider that all part of my experience or I guess practice???? If it turned into something more and it was multiple dates, sex, etc. then I would not knowingly do that just for practice. I saw the dr at the gym this morning and I was genuinely happy to see her even if it was only for 15 minutes. We walked out together, I gave her a kiss and told her I would call her later.
As far as physical attraction goes I don’t think that changes with meeting someone irl or old. If you see someone across the bar you notice their looks first before you talk to them. With old it is the same, you see some pictures and determine if you are attracted. In either case you get to know the person after that and determine if there is a connection.
I have never been a Don Juan, needing to date multiple women, string them along, have sex, and then dump them. If I find someone I like then I will date them only and explore the possibilities to see what happens. I would prefer to build something with one person vs dating around. If I find that person on the 15th date or the 30th date it doesn’t matter to me.
I am not over the top with gifts, dates, etc. I would consider myself slow and steady even with the girls that it didn’t work out with. There were many one and done dates, a few couple of dates, a month or so,and now the dr. I am very down to earth, am not a fancy restaurant or fancy gifts kind of person. It’s not because i am tight it’s just who I am. Laid back,easy going, and not pretentious.
If it bothers you then say something. Men stopping the courting process in ltr is very common. They stop doing the little things that helped to create the initial attraction and gradually over time it starts to fade with your wife or girlfriend. The get lazy, stop going to the gym, stop taking her out on dates, stop recognizing the holidays, stop listening to her problems, stop spending time together, etc. etc. etc.
I know from experience that’s what doomed my marriage.
It just feels like they are studying how to win at a game. Not how to get to know someone as a unique individual. And I’m assuming that if they are doing it, there must be other guys doing that as well.
With my bf, I remember him telling me how if you frequent a restaurant often, it’s a good idea to leave the waitress a really large tip in the beginning so she remembers you. She will always go out of her way to provide good service even if your future tips are not as large. He actually said this to me! There’s that old saying to watch how a guy treats a waitress right?
So I am wondering if he consciously did that to me. Our first Valentine’s Day he bought me fine jewelry. After that, I felt this need to reciprocate with nicer more expensive gifts too. Then his gifts went to normal. Dates became less frequent. If its a financial reason, Like if this year he didn’t do as well I don’t mind. But I don’t know if that’s the case.
But to me, it feels like he was trying to maybe sell me something that wasn’t there in the beginning ? Which is the deception don has brought up. Im not comfortable bringing up the same present as his ex situation. It was a metal that I don’t wear. And he had told me that info a year ago in a different conversation(I have a memory like an elephant)
Texts became less frequent. Instead he tells me, that because I have the busy schedule and young child he doesn’t want to bother me and let’s me pursue. He tells me I can come over any time I want he’s always around. He has offered me a key. Which is all good things and signs for a girl that wants a commitment. But it makes me feel like he is lazy. I am not that personality that’s gonna go in and takeover and maybe he’s ok with that? He says things like, he wants to cook dinner for me and my son this weekend but then never actually invites us, so I’m not sure if I’m supposed to initiate that? To me that feels rude.
Anyway, there is a big part of me that is considering ending it. There’s some other things too. I like to go places and be active, especially with a little kid and he’s more of a home body. There are times I don’t really want to invite him somewhere with me cause if it’s someplace neither of us know he will comment and I feel the need to voice back or else “ be someone’s b” . For example, I was looking at a rack of coats for my son and he comments “why are you even looking at those. They are not gonna fit” but in a rude way. So then I get snappy and start explaining that they put the small coats in the front and the larger ones in the back. Me and my ex never had issues like this, cause he wasn’t looking and criticizing the little things I did. I know this sounds petty. But we have been together less then 1.5 years and we don’t see each other all that much, so this type of arguing should be more for when your together 10 years no?
I’m anxious about ending things at this point. when we hang out it’s ok. But I am also a very easy personality to hang out with. (I know you might not get that from how I write on here) But I am not always sure that I am seeing things fairly. Am I nitpicking things? I don’t really know how to end things cause I have been up and down. But I am not happy
Men should always be leading and making dates even in Ltr. For me I dont view it as a game but I am very conscious of observing attraction levels and how she is interacting with me. A lot of the attraction books talk about how a man is all about drive, purpose, and conquering. Men dont consciencly make the decision to become lazy they just feel like they have won or conquered and they forget what they did in the beginning to attract the woman. They feel they have won so they put it on cruise control.
I will also say that the books all teach a man the a woman should never have to tell you what to do or how to act and if they do their attraction level will plummet even more. Not sure I 100% agree with that because i do feel if your unhappy you need to communicate with him. That said a woman should not have to tell a man how to be a man.
Your attraction level will only continue to decrease unless he starts to step up but I dont see that happening because he is not properly equipped.
Why is it that in any other area in life if you research something and read up on how to do it better it is considered a good thing but in dating it is frowned upon?
JUST BECAUSE YOU READ BOOKS DOESN'T MAKE YOU A PLAYER OR A "HUNTER"!
Why is it that in any other area in life if you research something and read up on how to do it better it is considered a good thing but in dating it is frowned upon?
JUST BECAUSE YOU READ BOOKS DOESN'T MAKE YOU A PLAYER OR A "HUNTER"!
I don’t frown upon reading books to feel more confident about dating or to gain insight about the opposite sex. I think it’s a great idea. The problem is that perhaps it is easy for some to take those books and become a bit dogmatic or even misinterpret them.
Hey it happens with the Bible, the Koran, the constitution etc
[quote=LH19] The problem is that perhaps it is easy for some to take those books and become a bit dogmatic or even misinterpret them.
I agree with that statement. I have seen that happen on the board.
It just feels like they are studying how to win at a game. Not how to get to know someone as a unique individual. And I’m assuming that if they are doing it, there must be other guys doing that as well.
A lot of the people who end up here are "fixers" who tend to overthink things and strategize including myself. I don't know how representative of a population we are but you are undoubtedly right.
I look at my past very few dates not so much as "practice" but as a learning experience. I learned that it's OK to realize that someone isn't a good fit and letting them go out of my life. I've learned that potential is all well and good but that it's the practical reality that matters.
I think though you are more thinking about how some individuals "use" others for their own ends. I can't really say if your bf falls in to that category or not. From what you've described he seems a bit thoughtless and lazy in his relationship skills. And that can be pretty normal for a lot of guys. He's not going to change. People don't and if they do they can't maintain it for long.
From what you write he is happy for you to do the work and really doesn't seem bothered one way or another about being a good partner or building a relationship. Liking different things is fine - but criticizing the other person's choices when they have no impact on yourself is a to me huge deal. CL would criticize some of my choices but then shrug and move on when I pointed out that I disagreed with her.
And this is the key thing. It's one thing to not be happy from time to time in a long term relationship. The ups and downs are to be expected. Consistently not being happy early on is a problem.
Give it some thought. Come here and explore those thoughts if you like which I personally think is healthy. Ask yourself the hard questions. And if your choice is that it's not going to work for you - then end it. Don't "settle". One thing that I have certainly learned and it wasn't easy to learn - is that being in a healthy relationship with yourself is far better than being in a bad one with someone else.
I would say that I would never date someone and use them as practice.
Ya know I feel like I'm always busting your chops Joseph but dang man your words sometimes are just that - words. You without a doubt have been practicing dating. For crying out loud those were your own words to us - especially to me. You said straight out it was like me practicing my instrument or like Michael Jordan I think it was practicing to play in the NBA - THOSE WERE YOUR EXACT WORDS!!! now you say you'd never practice? HUH?
But I would say, I don't think any of us go into our dates thinking it's practice. It may end up that way but I think we are all sincere when we start out. We just are confident enough to admit we need practice and we don't know it all.
Anyway, there is a big part of me that is considering ending it.
I'm very much enjoying this conversation JuJu. I continue to learn a lot from many of you here and in this case from you JuJu as to what at least some women are thinking. I'm not there with you and your BF so it's really hard to know what's going on. Plus it's from your perspective - his might be greatly different. It does seem like both of you have lost the shine or the luster for the other. But after 18 months, should you not talk with him about that rather than just end it - or worse yet continue as you are? I can tell you that if a woman tells me what's bothering her or something I'm doing that is making things worse, I'll do all I can to change it. But I can't do that if she doesn't tell me. Have you thought about sitting down with him and telling him some of these things? Telling him things that are bothering you. Again in my own case, and I often tell women I'm dating this very thing, that 90% of the time if you'll just ask me or clarify, what I said or how you took it was not meant as it came out or was taken.
I also think you are giving us men in general far too much credit. We don't think all of this stuff out. We have no grand plan or master plan. We just bumble through and do it. We are not thinking we are gaming or practicing. We are not trying to set you up or shade the truth of who we are. We are not that sinister nor that deep. We just are not.
I'm the one holding back.
I feel a bit deceived though. When we first dated, he went all out. Now, not so much.
Do you think one may be effecting the other? I know it would be for me. It gets "old" to keep trying if you are not getting it in return. This is one of the concepts in the DB books. If you started reaching out more, do you think he might as well? Is he now holding back because you are? I don't know this to be a fact - I just question it.
I've also read over and over forever it seems that the new infatuation period lasts about 6 to maybe 12 months. After that there is a more "mature" love that forms as you just can't keep that level going forever. I've always believed that. I mean it seems like the majority of "experts" say it. Yet we have at least a few here saying oh no, that should go on forever. Really? Should it? I even read from Joseph and a few others that if they would have kept the honeymoon phase going (my words not theirs) that they would not have gotten D'd. Well, yeah, I guess, perhaps. But is that even possible? Now this is not to say there should not be date nights and interaction and all of the rest. I'm not saying that. But things change. Do you really expect to keep what went on in the first 6 months going forever? Is that really possible?
I pose many more questions than I have answers but that is in part why I'm so fascinated by this discussion. It's also why I think all of this dating and R stuff is soooooo dang hard - and always has been for me. Give me nearly everything else in life and I've got it down pretty solidly - relationships, hell to the no - I clearly don't have this figured out at all.
So let's maybe just take one point here and see if we can get to a bottom with it.
He says things like, he wants to cook dinner for me and my son this weekend but then never actually invites us, so I’m not sure if I’m supposed to initiate that? To me that feels rude.
So when he says this, what is your response? Do you kinda of say "Um yeah I guess that could be fun." or something like that? Or do you respond "Oh yes, I'd love that, thank you so much, what time do you want to get together?" I'm sure you can see the difference in the two. As a guy, if it's the first response, I'm thinking, okay she really doesn't want to do this and is just being nice in saying yes. Now if it's the second response and nothing happens, by all means you should be saying, "What happened with dinner this weekend, are we still on for that because I'm looking forward to it." I know you feel you have little if anything in common with Wild Girl and know you don't think much of her but since she is my most recent example and therefore the clearest in my head, I'll use her. We talked about going on an overnight train trip to Chicago. I asked her about it and her response seemed luke warm to me - at best. She finally gave me a weekend and said she's really busy but maybe that could work. Now there was more at play here and I already greatly sensed she was backing off but with that response I was like, why should I bother. She never said another word - unless we finally talked months later. Had she simply said ANYTHING positive about it afterwards I would have followed through. But I figured she's not even mentioned it, she doesn't want to go. Yet this was one of the things she later listed as why she thought that I lost interest - saying, "You talked about going to Chicago and then never said anything again." See the two perspectives? Again, with WG there is much more going on but I think you can still get a sense of what I'm saying. I'll bet if you just told your BF, that you are really looking forward to this dinner, he'd follow through. Why not try it? Now if you have and he still is all talk and no follow through, it's time to ask him about it. He should tell you why. The two of you really need to start communicating about this.
So I'll stop with that one example. I really think you should try to flush this out. If it's not meant to be it's just not meant to be. But sticking in limbo is no way to live either. I hope this helps in some manner.
The dates turned into practice because they didn’t work out. If they had and it had turned into a R I wouldn’t have considered it practice. I didn’t knowningly take a date with the assumption it was practice.
J- your reading is just too much! I absolutely appreciate the fact you have studied to try not to make the same mistakes again. But why in God's name does the man have to be the initiator and creator of all dates? Why should he always be leading. If there is something I would like to do, I make the date with M. I've made dates. I have initiated them. He leads sometimes, I lead sometimes. Now blunt laziness of never making dates? I dated a guy like that. I don't like it. Or one who says "whatever you want" every time. Or one like Juju's who says you should do something some time and never makes it.
Ju,
I think I have said it before. The simple fact that the both of you don't believe in cheating and want a LTR does not make you right for eachother. In that case, I am sure there are many people that are right for eachother. There are men who want those things while being able to communicate, show respect and love.
As far as communication. I feel you might avoid it because you think you might be wrong to feel the way you do. I get it, because I never communicated for those very reasons. But you aren't wrong or petty in feeling as you do. You are only going to build up resentment. and that will blow up in both your faces.
Force his hand. He says I would like to make dinner for you and S this weekend. You say "We would love that, what day and time, we will be there!"
Ju, aside from him wanting long term commitment and not being the type to cheat, what do you actually like him him? You have felt as if he wasn't too respectful to your son. You like being active, he doesn't. He makes negative comments about things that make you happy.....
I'm just trying to figure out if there is anything there worth saving before you become too resentful or get in too deep. ANd if there is something worth saving, you need to speak up and stop worrying if you are "wrong" to be feeling as if you do. Because you aren't.
G I am not saying a woman can’t but the man should be making dates. How would you feel if M never did? That’s my point.
My heart goes out to you, Juju. It is a hard place to be, not knowing for sure which way to go. I think it is easier to see things once you have been down that road of divorce and are removed from it and can look at how things broke down objectively. But, along with that, I think that it can create an almost gun-shy attitude for people in that they are afraid to put themselves out there or ask for what they really want or whatever.
My only real advice is to really think about both sides of the coin: staying together vs. breaking up. When I face a dilemma that seems daunting or difficult, I make a pro/con list and then I just compare both and then try to make a decision that seems to best benefit me. You are a strong person and you will be fine either way, but don't stay in something that isn't working for you just to avoid a break-up. By the same token, don't rush to break up when something may be fixed by just having an actual conversation.
As far as the thing about him saying he'd cook dinner, but never following through, lots of people have addressed that already and some have even said, when he says he wants to cook dinner some time, pin him down to specifics "oh that sounds great, how about this weekend?" I have had more than one man say to me that sometimes they don't pick up on subtle hints. I agree, a lot of men (notice I did not say all) men are NOT good at subtle. So, be direct. Hopefully he'll respond with a similar directness.
They think they got their woman so they quit.
I think this applies to people who were doing things wanting something in return. If you give a gift not because its what you like to do, but are trying to earn brownie pts to get you to your end goal, then ofcourse once that goal is reached you are going to back off on this. Thats why I believe when you do something for the opposite sex you need to ask yourself, are you doing it because you truly want to do it no matter what the outcome may be, or are you doing it to try and get a certain response. Example would be, if you buy a lady a drink are you buying it hoping that she will want to talk to you or you couldnt care less if she wants to talk to you, you just feel like buying someone a drink. When you look for the reasons why you are doing something, if you are doing it truly for yourself you are more likely to keep doing it, because it is really a part of who you are and your personality.
Juju,
You seem to me to be a people pleaser. Instead of telling someone how you feel, you tend to say things that keep the mood happy and doesnt create conflicts. Like Don said instead of ending it, just have a real conversation with him about how you feel. My ex was a people pleaser and I had no idea i was even near a BD. But instead of having a real conversation with me, she chose to pretend everything was fine, but let it fester when I was away and she ended up starting an emotional attachment with someone else.
Rex
Thanks for the responses...
Making decisions and confrontation is hard for me. Yes I tend to be a people pleaser. I am very attune to people’s moods and issues and I tend to try to keep the peace. Rex, I can relate to your ex with this relationship. Not the one with my ex though.
And ginger your right. I do worry that I am wrong to feel the way I feel. This comes from a couple of reasons. I suffer from anxiety, so I don’t often trust my feelings. I have been hormonal so I also don’t trust my feelings.
And my feelings regarding him are like borderline extremes. I am not sure if I am nitpicking something minor which don and some people IRL have pointed out or if there are some serious red flags. When I’m hanging out with him I will be fine, but then something might happen another time and I wil go into high alert I need to break up mode the day after the incident after I have thought it out.
And a big one is with my ex, I always communicated my needs and expressed myself and I feel like that was part of why he left. The things he faulted me for were being too needy, being too negative and critical and being verbally abusive. ( in reality, some of the things I complained about were valid and indicative of someone with an addiction (him sleeping till 3 and the money and spending concerns but with some of them I could have been better at picking battles and accepting him more)
I think the years of DBing - swallowing sh!t sandwiches and teaching myself to not react to unfair things were more damaging to me in the long run, cause now I am not calling NG out on things he should be called out on. Instead I sulk, get quiet and stonewall and resent. Which was more like my ex, who I would call the master of Dbing or just detached and cold as ice perhaps.
Don and dawn you guys are correct in that if I pinned him down and established a time it might have happened. I just feel rude pinning him down and really don’t want to chase or pursue a guy. I feel like I did that too much with my ex. I have communicated to Bf that he doesn’t invite and he told me I have a universal invite as long as he’s home and he has offered me a key. That I can spend time at his place whenever. I know that’s a huge thing for a guy. He’s saying he’s ok with me taking his space and independence. I’m not a drop in type of person though. I don’t want to feel settled and like I’ve been married and too comfortable with him yet. Maybe that’s it?
Maybe a list would be helpful.
And here’s something that happened so that you can understand my lack of trust in my perception. My ex is taking my son away with his mom and girlfriend. I keep crying cause I am terrified my son will get into a car accident or be kidnapped. I am living what it would feel like to lose my son. I know that’s not normal. the logical part of my brain knows that those feelings are irrational but I still deeply feel it. I’m not always like that. But sometimes I am.
Just gonna vent..
I sent one of those hows my son doing texts aka just checking in to make sure he’s alive text... and ex mil sends me pics of my son and ex’s girlfriend’s daughter playing together ??????? She’s not a mean or spiteful personality so I’m just gonna go with the term emotionally slow.
Ugh. Venting again...
Being a divorced LBS means i get to pack my sons bag while he goes away with ex and girlfriend plus I get handed a bag of all sons laundry from the trip too. This in addition to pics sent by mil of son playing with girlfriends daughter. And I have to do it all with a sweet tone so son does not have a bad feeling.
I understand how that feels. Used to bother me a lot in the beginning.
You should set some boundaries, though. He can pack his own bag. He can go buy what his son needs for his trip. He also shouldn't be returning dirty laundry. He can return it when it's clean. YOur MIL may be sweet, but sounds totally clueless.
Remember though, you take a trip with BF and son and his kid too. ANd it is great that when your son is with your ex, he's got someone around his age he is having fun with. I know it's hard to see that way, but it will help you refocus so your son doesn't get a bad feeling.
Thanks ginger
It’s frustrating cause his girlfriend gets to see him being a great dad, but meanwhile I am the real parent. He knows how to say something that makes it seem like he does a lot. Like he will make it a point of saying to the teachers “I always make sure he rewrites his homework neatly with me and I notice he can do it when i make him go slow” meanwhile he only sees him 1.5 hrs onenight a week while I work and won’t keep him extra for a library program and usually drops him off early with my parents. He only started going to the school stuff cause his girlfriend is a kindergarten teacher. But the way he makes a big deal out of the one thing he does, gives every one a different impression. In hind site he used to do this to me and his mom as well and he looks like a hero
I know it shouldn’t matter but it does.
I also think I wouldn’t be so jealous of him and his girlfriend if I was happy with my own relationship. And that is telling me something as well. I don’t even want to invite bf on a trip cause I don’t want someone commenting on things that go wrong I want someone that just goes with the flow a bit more.
So something I’m upset about with bf...I’m not sure if this is me being hyper sensitive since I’m already looking for things...
I brought up a conversation involving how a boyfriend/girlfriend should be regarding kids. I said they need to connect with the kid not correct (which I read and agree with) and leave the discipline up to the parent. That each parent has different thresholds and rules and perspectives and just because he sees something as wrong does not mean I do, or that I want to pick that battle. For example my son wore his hoody from his sweatshirt on when we were eating in a restaurant (it was a chain restaurant that only kids and old people and stoned people like) I don’t see an issue with this. He thought it was disrespectful. My son said he was just cold. I know plenty of people that are strongly opposed to hats indoors or while eating. Me personally, I’m just glad my son is not climbing on the windowsills so I pick my battles
Bf says, that my threshold is set low because of sons past behavior and he feels i am not seeing disrespectful behavior cause of that and that he feels it’s helpful to me and to son in the long term.
Anyway I brought up to him, how I am a great mother. That my son had a lot of issues and because of my dillegence and research and meetings with teahchers and social workers and establishing an IEP etc, that my son is doing great. He’s earning awards and he’s testing for gifted program. I have a great relationship with my son. Then if argument me and my son have right now is who loves each other more. Every teacher tells me how my son does not have a mean bone in his body, that he just struggles to be quiet stay in his seat etc.
BF responded to that by saying nowadays they give these service away. He would have gotten help and attention regardless. I felt like he was basically, undermining all my efforts as a parent and it really pissed me off. I feel like this could be a general pattern in him, where he focuses on all that is bad and never sees good (I know that cause I obviously struggle with the same, but so don’t impose it on my family or friends or on him) which is why I feel criticized with things in the past.
Is this me being hyper sensitive cause I was upset prior? Or something ?
Let me start by saying I think it is good that you are questioning whether you are being hyper-sensitive since you are already "looking for something" as you put it. I don't really think you are being hyper-sensitive in the case that you laid out, though. Just based on some of the things you have posted about your BF, he seems to be a bit of a negative nelly. I don't know if this is his natural setting in general or if it is just in his interaction with you, but being with someone like that is just thoroughly exhausting. I think that everyone has an off or down time on occasion, but to be that way all the time can be draining for those around the negative person.
I'm not sure what state laws are in your state (or even where you are, for that matter), but here, IEPs ARE a given for students with different learning needs. Now, that is NOT to say that you haven't worked hard for your son and have really done your best in being present and making good decisions for him that are having a positive impact on him, as reported by his teachers. That is AWESOME! But, having been in the public school system and teaching a vocational class that got a lot of mainstreamed students, I know first-hand that everyone of them is supposed to have an IEP. Of course, how effective that IEP is relies solely on parental involvement and follow-through, so again, I'm not saying you haven't worked hard because from what I'm reading, you are one of the parents who is doing it right and I commend you for that. It is a lot of work on the part of the teacher, the parent and the student and all of that has to happen in concert with each other. I say all that to say that maybe your BF doesn't understand all that and that is why he kind of blew off your major efforts to help your son succeed. I know it is a struggle for you and your son and I know you work hard to help him to do and be the best he can. I just wonder if maybe BF doesn't really see all the effort because he is not as present as maybe he should be. I don't know what your arrangement with him is regarding how he interacts with your son, but in order to have a good, strong, positive relationship with you, he does need to understand the extra needs that your son has and the extra effort that it requires on your part to insure his best education.
I do agree with your first statements in general...that people need to connect with but not correct the children. In a serious relationship, you need to know that not only are you safe, but your child(ren) are as well and that does require a connection to be formed between your partner and your child. You want to trust your partner with keeping your child safe, but you don't want your partner taking on the main role of correcting your child. I do think it is ok for a partner to ask questions (NOT in front of the child) about the way things were handled, not to say someone is doing something wrong, but to try to better understand how the parent is handling things. To me, that is all part of open communication that strengthens the relationship. I don't know if that makes sense or not, but I guess what it boils down to is that BF should be engaged with and connected to son if y'all are at that point in your R and he should definitely understand the needs and requirements your son has in order to achieve success in the classroom. If he's not willing to understand all that or continues to be negative and undermine you, maybe it IS time to cut him loose.
Oh honey - you're not being overly sensitive.
He's trying to diminish the hard work you have done as a parent to get your son to where he is now.
He's focusing on a VERY MINOR, extremely unimportant issue (for cripes sake, if the kid is cold let him wear his hoodie! Nobody in this country gives a flying f--- anymore if a little kid wears a hoodie in a casual restaurant - if BFs rules are that rigid things will only get worse as your son gets older.
BF refused to even consider your point that HE IS NOT THE PARENT and it is not his job to correct your child. I love that phrase - "connect not correct".
Your instincts are correct. It's not just that he was annoyed by something your child did, or had a different opinion than you about headwear in a restaurant. It's that he thinks his way is the right way and you and your son need to follow it, that he was unwilling to even discuss a different way of being with your child, and that he responded by belittling the hard work you have done on behalf of your child.
Dump him. Really. This is not you being overly sensitive.
I'm dealing a bit with this with CMM. Even though my sons are grown, two of them still live with me and both have some mental health issues (one has Asperger's, one is recovering from a heroin addiction and has severe anxiety and an eating disorder). CMM is a little rigid and also an OCD clean freak so when he comes over to cook dinner for me there is sometimes tension about what he thinks my boys should or should not be doing in the kitchen. Frankly, I'm so concerned about my youngest son and his eating disorder that I could care less if he leaves a whole sink full of dirty dishes, I'd just be happy he cooked and ate something! (Btw, my son is not that messy anyway.)
I've had to just come out and tell CMM that if he has any issue with my sons, he's to speak to me, not them, about it. That's doable since they're all adults but probably not workable with a young child and a potential live-in BF.
If you want to just keep dating him and leave your son out of your dates, then fine. But if you were hoping to progress to a live-in or marriage relationship - nope, not this guy.
Thanks guys.
Just as a side note. Getting the IEP was really hard for me because academically my son does really well. He has trouble socially and behaviorally and with fine motor. Our districts do not really want to pay for the extra services. I had taken my son to tons of doctors and paid out of pocket for evaluations from specialists to get these services. I had to debate the OT at the last meeting to keep him on program. (The teachers have been incredible though and one of them had actually given me the heads up that the OT wanted to discharge)
Ugh. I’m rereading your messages. This has been ongoing
Good job on advocating for your son to get the help he needs. My friend's son has Asperger's and because he's high functioning she also had to fight to get him the IEP he needed. I know how difficult it can be. And for the BF to belittle that as if it was nothing or unnecessary is downright disrespectful.
Thank you KML. My son did have 2 doctors diagnose him with high functioning aspergers then another specialist diagnosed him with adhd and did not think he was on the spectrum. We ended up just addressing the symptoms and this year has been great for him. As he got older a lot of the sensory stuff seems to have calmed down. He has problems socializing but does not really recognize it or care because he can logically rationalize things. he is genuinely IQ score gifted so they label him twice gifted. He’s a great kid, really funny and compassionate. When one of the kids got hurt, he was the only child that went up to him and asked him if he was ok. And that’s the stuff I focus on and make a big deal of.
I may be the BS but I would never tell my girlfriend how to parent or say anything to her unless she asked for my opinion
Juju,
I am sorry, but this guy has got to go. He belittles you as a mother and tries to parent your son to his standards? Is this the guy you want to blend families with and marry?
Like I have been saying over and over, believing in long term commitment is not enough to stay with someone.
YOu can do so much better. ANd alone would be better than dealing with that.
I thought I'd chime in with a guys opinion here. I'm also someone who in the past wondered, out loud here, if you might not be a little too critical and thin-skinned about some of the things you've mentioned. My point in saying this is I was never quick to jump on the dump him band wagon. That said, what you provided above is concerning. Does he have children of his own? Something in my memory tells me that he does not.
I first of all agree with the others and you that the whole hoodie thing is just not a battle that needs to be waged - for sure not by him. It just is not that big of a deal, but the thing is, I don't think it's about the hoodie. I think i may have said this about your BF before. I think there is something else or other multiple things that are really bothering him. That does not in any way excuse this. In fact it may make it worse, depending on what it really is. I really think there is much more going on here, I think he senses you are not happy with him - and I think he's not happy with you or at least with the R. I think the whole hoodie or luggage or whatever else it has been is about these deeper issues. It may be more in the camp of he feels you are very critical of him but son can do anything he wants, even where a hoodie at dinner, and nothing is ever said. Again, I'm not condoning it - just trying to give possible perspective. His response is still the wrong one - but do you see how if I'm correct, it's not about the hoode?
I think it's beyond admirable that you are giving the benefit of the doubt here and questioning if these are really big deal items or you are making them into big deal items. I tend to think they are big deal items.
I think I've asked you this and suggested this before but I'm going to try again. Why are you staying with him? Have you sat down and listed all of the positives and negatives? I really think you should. But beyond everything, I really think you and BF need to have a huge heart to heart about all of this. If you really do want to stick with him or "give him a chance" or whatever you want to call it, it's imperative that you sit down with him and tell him how you are feeling. Otherwise this is heading towards a BD that he will never see coming. And that's not fair either. He may be a great guy that needs to hear some of these things. Take it from a guy who blurts things out (more than I should) but rarely if ever tries to be mean about it - an attitude adjustment is sometimes needed. You teach people how to treat you JuJu and I fear you've taught him it's okay to say things like "they hand out IEP like candy." The reason should not be you getting up and walking off in a huff or giving him the silent treatment for a day or two - but should be met with looking him directly in the eyes and saying something like "that was very mean. Did you really mean that? Do you have any idea how much time, work, money and effort I've had to put in? Why would you say something so mean to me?" He needs to hear something like that from you. Otherwise I'm guessing he has zero clue and part of me thinks if he loves you as you think he does, he would not have said it if he knew how much it hurt you.
This is all a learning experience JuJu. I think you went in with this guy quickly because he was so different and checked the boxes you focused on. Unfortunately you've now come to see there are way more boxes that should have been considered. But that's okay. That's what dating is about. If you think you just need to stop here you can. If you want to give him a chance to step up, it's extremely important you start having some serious discussions with him. Whatever you do, please don't keep going on the path you are. Something needs to change here. Don't allow this to continue and by all means don't let it progress to a live in or married situation.
Hey don, he does have a child that he raised by himself cause the mother left. That’s something I really liked about him and that hoodie incident happened a really long time ago and I made it clear he could wear his hood and it was never a huge argument or fight, I was just using it as an example to demonstrate that my values are more lax and his more old school. I did bring all this up to him and you are right. He was surprised. He had no idea how upset I was. He told me he thought he had improved and this has been an ongoing issue for him not just with me. He said he wants to help and feels like he is giving warning to prevent a train wreck and I said that was an arrogant way of thinking, as I myself put lots of thought into all of my decisions. He said he did not mean to undermine my accomplishments. He feels like he has to just be quiet and keep things to himself around me and I told him we will both be walking on egg shells.
Regarding me, I get thrown off and don’t know how to communicate in the moment. I have to think it over, evaluate if my feelings are legit before confronting. It’s part of a people pleaser nature I think. I will overlook things but then when they start adding up I will lose it.
Am I thin skinned? Not with friends or at work, but yeah with him I am. I have been told by someone else that I nitpicked a few things that became big in my eyes. I think my guard is up now and it’s just gonna be tough to go forward.
I do not think he is a bad guy. But he is arrogant and too blunt about negative things and not expressive of the positive things and that has been corrosive
This latest information really helps at least for me to get a clearer picture - which is still so hard simply over text and from only one person's view. I still maintain above all else the two of you really need to start communicating - and for sure JuJu you need to find it within yourself to communicate - not only with this current guy but if you should decide to not continue with him, I'm fearful the same things will happen with other guys down the road.
Right/Wrong - Good/Bad I get the feeling your BF and myself may be somewhat alike. We share and say what we are thinking. I can't speak for your BF but can totally speak for myself - it's rarely meant to tear someone down or hurt them, it's meant to help them improve. I totally believe he just wanted to help. I don't think he's being ego driven or that his way is the right way. If he has raised a child on his own and did a good job - he might even be right. He is clearly right - for him. He may just not be right when it comes to you and your son.
Regarding me, I get thrown off and don’t know how to communicate in the moment. I have to think it over, evaluate if my feelings are legit before confronting.
I can totally see that and it's okay. But what is not okay is if you never gather your thoughts and feelings and reopen the discussion - which I fear is what happens. Then even worse, you stew on what he said - so much so that the example you gave us, I thought for sure was recent, but it turns out to be old - yet it's STILL really bothering you. He moved on from it minutes after it happened - I'll guarantee you this. Yet for you, it's still eating at you. That's not fair to you or to him. And it's also something that, sure you can replace him, but you'll do the same thing with the next guy. You really have to try to work on this. If you can't do it in the moment, do it the next day after you've had time to think about it. If you don't this wedge will keep building.
He cares about you and wants to help. He thinks he is - even though he is clearly hurting you when he tries. Yet he says that he feels like the only other option is to not say anything. Is that true? Is that really his only option? Is there any way he could say something like this and it be okay with you? Because, while I guess I would not care at all about the hoodie thing, I'm sure there are many things I could point out that I'd disagree with your parenting. And that's okay. It's okay to disagree - right? He doesn't have to agree with you - but he does have to support you in your decision. Something tells me, however, that would not be enough for you - you don't even want him to disagree. Am I right about that?
I do not think he is a bad guy. But he is arrogant and too blunt about negative things and not expressive of the positive things and that has been corrosive
I very strongly believe you need to say this to him. Again, if he and I are alike (and honestly the above statement could well be said about me) I'd feel terrible if I was told this and would want to do anything I could to change it. I'd likely even say "why haven't you told me this before." And I'll bet you'll say that you've tried to - and you may have. I just don't think it's been communicated clearly - or perhaps you are afraid to. The people pleasing, conflict avoiding part of you just doesn't want to go there. It's easier to just dump him and find someone else. And that may be the ultimate best answer for you. Something just tells me if you addressed this part, you'd have stronger feelings for him again.
I guess the best advice I can give you is, if it were me (and again he and I seem somewhat similar) I'd very much value a heart to heart discussion from you about it - rather than simply saying "this is not working, we need to break up."
Don, our heart to heart turned into me losing it and telling him how I couldn’t stand the negativity and that I didn’t want to invite him places with me and I’m disconnected from him cause he’s so critical and that he doesn’t listen just thinks his ways are the best etc. He said he doesn’t know what to say and that it was never his intent to undermine me. That he holds me in high regards and knows I’m a good mother and that he feels like he could help based on what he went through. He said he has frequently heard it’s not what he says but how he says it. He said he is not the type to sugar coat his opinion and is always honest. He said he feels like I took 7 months of stuff and just threw it at him. (Not true, I have brought it up in calm discussions - he just didn’t get how upset it was making me)
I don’t like the disagreeing with me. It makes me do the opposite even more and I don’t know why. One time he told me something he ended up being 100 percent right about and I did opposite just cause I was feeling this sense of adversity with him from other things. When friends or family make suggestions or posters make suggestions I never get ruffled. With him I do and I don’t know why. maybe the tone? There’s a cockiness in the way it’s delivered maybe? Sometimes he takes a strong stance on something that does have 2 sides to it (for example medicating a kid with adhd) and doesn’t address the 2 sides. Only his side. For me, I am looking at both sides cause it’s my kid and because I’m general things are never black and white.
Now that you mention it, I do notice that you sometimes bring out that defensiveness in some posters. I can’t pinpoint why, but it’s similar and it might make some people want to prove you wrong. you do not tell people what they want to hear, only what you think which is honorable and relieving in someways but might feel like a lot of cynicism for someone as well.
With bf it was feeling like too much of the pointing out bad with no good things going along with it and it’s exhausting.
It's well-known that if you're delivering constructive feedback/criticism (call it what you will), that you should sandwich it between two pieces of positive feedback. Some people might say that is 'sugar coating', and taken to extremes it most certainly is. Done properly though, it's a great way for avoiding the criticism that your BF says he constantly hears - i.e. it's not what he says, but how he says it.
People who believe not sugar-coating their criticism means they're 'honest' are kidding themselves. They need only see how defensive they get when the same treatment is dished back out to them. Your BF did it right in front of you - when you finally said things honestly, he missed the message because he was busy dealing with the feeling that he'd just has 7 months of stuff being 'thrown' at him. You didn't sugar coat, and look what happened to him!
I have to be a 100% honest. your BF carries so many traits of my exH it makes me cringe and I want to smack him. And your doubting yourself and it's like the gaslighting I used to experience. So I am not so biased on what you should or shouldn't do in this sitch and I probably shouldn't comment because I have a desire to save you before you get too deep or it seeps on over to your son when it does.
That being said, if I just look at you in this sitch, there honestly hasn't been one positive thing you have said about him or how you feel around him. You seem miserable with him. You STILL have no answered the big question everyone keeps asking about what you love about him, why you are with him, whats good about the R...….
Having someone to have someone is not something I know you need. That isn't you. So why? Why are you continuing? What benefit are you and your son getting? Because all I read are the negatives.
Debbi and a ginger... those are good points.
There are things I love about him, or this would not be hard... He puts family and loved ones first, over his job. That means a lot because it was the opposite of my ex husband. Like I know if I had any type of medical issue he would put it first. (My ex did not come to any of the md appts or US of my last pregnancy. When I had to induce an abortion cause the fetus heart beat stopped, he went to work the day I did it and when I called him terrified that the dr made a mistake he got annoyed with me for bothering him at work) I know bf would never be like that.
BF cares about things and has passions for things. He takes care of all the animals his child wanted and was the midwife for his dog. My ex would never want to be bothered with that. It would be extra work for him. He will go places with me, take classes with me, brain storm ideas with me. He is attentive. He is on time for things and very responsible. He is not a guy that is aching to go out and party with his friends. (My ex). He actually likes being home with his partner or kid. He is pretty independent and will act on his own instead of follow his peers. He’s more the type to criticize his peers if he disagrees not follow them (My ex had a few close friends who got divorced and then he followed in suit). We do laugh and converse well (but i can pretty much hold conversations with most people)
A big one for me is that he wants and values a relationship and partnership. I trust that he’s not a cheater.
He is not like a lot of the guys on here and probably out there in dating world that are just looking for a person to bring to weddings and have over on the weekend. I recognize that.
The nagging and negativity is the thing I can’t take. My mom is like that as well - she constantly notices and b!tches about everything and everyone, as if she knows it all and it invokes strong reactions in me. it annoys me, makes me want to argue and makes me not trust her opinions even if some of them are right. My mom has recently changed a bit as she saw how well the positive reinforcement has worked on my son.
Hi Juju,
Some of us had pretty lousy spouses and yet we were still dumped by them (vs us being the one to choose to end the bad relationship). It makes perfect sense to want to be with someone who is the opposite of our ex’s. But just because they are the opposite of what we had before, doesn’t mean they are the perfect partner.
And in no way shape or form am I placing judgement or opinion on your situation at all. Your rationale and justifications for being with him are good. I am projecting here as I’ve thought a lot about what I want in a long term partner. I often waffle between knowing what’s on my list of non negotiables and engaging with someone just because he has qualities that demonstrate he’s not the same as my ex. (And I have to temember, at one point I loved certain traits about my ex). So.... maybe he’s different and “better” and the relationship is more fulfilling and reciprocal than what you had before, but is it what you want?
Just food for thought.
Pax - the thing is, I know there’s no such thing as the perfect partner. I’m not looking for that either. But the negativity for me without the positivity for me made me detached and ready to end it all. He indicated doing things to change. But this isn’t the first time we had this type of fight. I’m just really sad, cause there are things I like about him that I am thinking of now.
I think about my dad. He is a loyal husband, likes to go places, responsible, frugal, put my mother first. . But also yelled a lot about stupid things and was not outgoing or fun. Pretty negative as well. Yet he made a good partner amd family man. He once complained about my moms cooking and she threw his literal plate in the garbage and then he never complained again. Always was careful about what he said to her. At point being, that I know people have positives and negatives. But too many negatives are no good. Poor treatment of another is no good either. They also grew into their relationship from when they were young. They raised a family together.
Dating when your young and you already have kids is different. You have to think about what you are introducing your kids to. Your separate in finances, not sharing things as a family as you have to think about each of your own children. There’s a different dynamic to start with. Your not building a life with someone like my parents did, your sharing a life with someone and that feels different.
Juju,
I think what Don said is something you can work on regardless of how this R goes. Holding things in and letting then fester will be the long term death of any R. It resentment is just too much after so long.
The nagging and negativity is the thing I can’t take. My mom is like that as well - she constantly notices and b!tches about everything and everyone, as if she knows it all and it invokes strong reactions in me. it annoys me, makes me want to argue and makes me not trust her opinions even if some of them are right. My mom has recently changed a bit as she saw how well the positive reinforcement has worked on my son.
^^you said the negativity isnt something you can take, yet I think you keep waiting for him to change. I think you seen your mother change some and believe either he will or you can make him change, nope... It just wont happen. I cant remember the specific numbers but there was this study that looked at long term relationships hat said maybe 90%of problems in a relationship are unresolvable. Also, the things people argued about in the beginning of a relationship are usually the same things toward the end, even if its 50 years later. What matters to those who make it longterm are how they communicate through that conflict, but not that the conflict is resolved. I see two options in your circumstance, you either accept the arrogant and negative person he is (which isnt necessarily wrong, its just different. Its who he is) or you part ways. If you want something to change with the dynamics it will be you that has to change, expecting him to change so it works out is a fantasy that will leave you disappointed. Only he can change himself, only you can change you.
I know you see all these good qualities in him and many are ideal after what you experienced with ex. I get that and I'm sure it's a difficult situation to handle, I hope you can figure a solution soon to relive this internal pressure one way or another.
First off, it is good hearing from you Fogg and I’m looking forward to a catch up with you outside of all this again.
This has been difficult. I do not want to string him along, I am just not feeling certain. I worry that in 6 months things will get bad again and then I will say, ugh I should have ended thing 6 months ago when I already went through the drama. but at the same time, I do recognize some really outstanding morals in him. He’s a known evil. It’s arrogance and a lack of a filter. There will be others that are perhaps charming, but frequenting hookers, or abusing kids, or bipolar or still hooking up with their ex or god knows what. I don’t think I am that easy of a person to deal with either. I’m still really traumatized over ex.
If I do end things, I have absolutely no desire to date for a while. I’m not happy with a lot of things right now and I need to get myself back. I don’t feel motivated or attractive or hopeful. I’m on a bad routine. Not exercising or eating like I normally do and I need to make changes ASAP.
I have money saved. In another part of the country I would be able to afford a house. It’s really frustrating that I’m stuck here. The really small starter house in my neighborhood from the 1960s tthat needs tons of work and updates in my school district is just under 500 and the taxes are 15 grand a year and I see that and I just want to cry cause I see no way out. The home prices keep going up as do the taxes. I need a partner... just like the old days but can’t trust a partner or rely on one.
J....is this the first time you have had this type of conversation with him? I think it is if I remember right. If so....can you give it some time see if he can rectify? I say that because I wish my Xw was as direct with me when she started to feel a certain way about our marriage.
It’s not. We had this same issue in the summer. He got snarky with me and I waited a while and then confronted him via text and we argued and then I left him out of a vacation we had planned together and went on my own with my son and he got mad at that and I felt bad and we made up.
Oh......well it sounds like he is who he is unless for whatever reason he didn’t understand the seriousness of how you felt. I know I personally couldn’t take it but I think you and I are wired kind of the same in that regard. I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt at my own expense. I know it’s hard and I have my own issues I am dealing with but I would just say to be true to yourself. Hang in there!