I don't know how many will remember me, but I first posted here about three years ago when my (then) husband had initiated a separation. We continued to work on the marriage for a little over a year, and then he decided he was done in November 2015, and I let go of the rope. We were officially divorced in March of this year.
From time to time I pop in and read updates from my "class" of DBers. SunnyB and Maybell are the two that still post the most. Tarheel's latest update is what prompted me to offer my own. I'd love to know how Ganb8te and ss06 are doing, if they are still reading the boards.
I've spent a lot of time reflecting on why my marriage failed. When my H left, my instinct was to blame myself -- because he told me I had failed him, but also because I thought that if I was responsible for the marriage falling apart, that I could be the one to put it back together again. I have no doubt that I did things that were wrong in my marriage. I was young (22) when I married him and not as emotionally mature as I am now. I don't think I did a good job in the beginning of nurturing his emotional needs, and I wish that I had made different choices. That said, I have come to the conclusion that there is nothing that I could have done differently to prevent that marriage from ending, because ultimately, it was my H's inability to accept that a marriage requires compromise, acceptance, forgiveness, and humility. If asking him not to suggest Mexican food* when we were planning a night out with friends was asking too much (an actual example he used in marriage counseling to demonstrate how controlling I was), there was no room for me in that relationship. It would have been impossible for me to never ask something of him, and eventually all those little compromises and hurts would have accumulated and he would have left. It might have taken a couple more years or decades, but unless he had undergone a significant psychological shift in thinking, he still would have left.
*Don't judge; I didn't like it then. I used to be somewhat of a picky eater, but I've reformed myself. :-)
Earlier this year, I happened to stumble upon hard evidence that he was having an affair. It's not clear when it started, but it was definitely going on during the first year of our separation, when he was telling me that he didn't want us to see other people, we were still going to counseling, and we were still sexually active with each other. From what I gather, he is still in a relationship with the OW, but she is married (not separated) and doesn't want to leave her husband.
When I first found out about the affair, I felt relief. It wasn't me! He was in an affair fog! (At least during the separation when we were trying to repair our relationship, if not before.) But then I started to get angry. He stole my time; for over a year, I continued to hold out hope that our marriage could be restored, but if I had known about the affair, I would have dropped the rope a lot sooner. He gaslighted me, calling me crazy and paranoid for suspecting he was having an affair. He put my sexual health at risk by not informing me that he was sleeping with someone else. But when I have tried to confront him about what I found, he just shuts me down. I can't even get him to acknowledge that he did it, much less acknowledge hurting me or apologize for it.
But my primary focus is elsewhere, as I am in another relationship now, and we are getting married in two weeks. It may seem soon to some -- we've been together for about a year and a half -- but neither of us sees any good reasons to wait. His first marriage ended for reasons similar to mine, and we are both coming from a place where our commitment to each other is paramount. We've talked extensively about where we went wrong in our first marriages, how we've grown and how we can be the best possible partners to each other in this marriage. He is simply one of the most amazing people I've ever met -- he is humble and kind, thoughtful and hardworking, crazy smart, an amazing Dad (he has four young kids who will live with us half-time), and has a smokin' hot bod. ;-) But of course, he feels like the reacher and can't believe that I even went out with him, let alone agreed to marry him. :-) I think we're going to have a wonderful life ahead of us.
Congratulations Elsa!
And you're right - if your ex couldn't simply refrain from recommending the group go out to eat someplace he knew you didn't like - he didn't care for you the way a spouse should. And no, you couldn't have done anything in counseling to save the marriage if he was sleeping with OW during.
The karma? You're marrying a hot guy, while his affair partner didn't think enough of your ex to blow up her marriage for him. Neener neener neener!
I'm sure, now that you have a good guy that cherishes you, you can see the ways in which your ex was not a good husband. Enjoy that. And I hope your new hubby's ex wife leaves you alone. (Be prepared for one or the other of your exes to pop up right before the wedding. They like to think you're waiting on the Plan B shelf).
Wow, I feel like I could have written a lot of that myself - apart from the bit about Mexican food
Seriously though, it's inspiring to hear such clarity and positivity after so much confusion and pain.
Please post again and keep us updated.
Oh, I meant to ask and totally forgot...why do cheating spouses accuse *us* (the ones being cheated on) of being controlling?
It seems to be a recurring thread. I genuinely don't understand that.
Projection. Its a human defense mechanism to deny and defend the qualities of ourselves we don't like or are uncomfortable with and instead attribute them to those around us
Nice to hear from you, Elsa! I'm glad you've landed on your feet.
I wouldn't waste time trying to get your ex to admit to the cheating. It's a pointless effort, because if he admits that he pulled that on you he'd have to take responsibility for the end of the marriage. It's very convenient for him to be able to blame you for everything.
I'm glad you've gotten perspective on the marriage and wish you very much the best in your new marriage -- keep us posted!
Projection. Its a human defense mechanism to deny and defend the qualities of ourselves we don't like or are uncomfortable with and instead attribute them to those around us
Thank you Fogg. I'll do some reading up about it.
Just checking in. I've been married now for about six weeks. We had no Whack-a-Mole exes pop up before the wedding, thankfully. I have noticed that my ex-H has pulled way back on his communication with me. I don't know if he's trying to be respectful and give me some space to be with my new husband, or if there's something else going on. I'm probably going to have to say something soon, because he is relying on our 10 year old to tell me things like when he is going out of town for work, when really he should be communicating with me directly about things like that. But, I don't really give him (or at least, current him) much thought these days -- it's easy to forget he even exists when I can go a week without hearing from him.
The past version of him still haunts me, though. It's amazing how much the scars from that relationship affect how I interact with my H. I realized the other day that I still live like I am hanging by a thread, when I have absolutely no reason to feel that way. Raising an issue feels like exposing a vulnerability: my H might resent me for not being easier to live with, or worse, if he fails to show concern for my feelings, he'll be indicating that he doesn't really want to be in this relationship anymore but he's taking the coward's way out. It's so hard not to hold him accountable for someone else's mistakes.
I'm also realizing how much better I can be at caretaking. For example, today I was dropping the kids off at school. My daughter's drop-off is much later than the others, and she was upset about something, so I took her to Panera for a treat. I literally never would have thought to get something for my ex-H in that type of situation when we were married -- I just expected him to take care of himself, and vice versa. But my H is so thoughtful in that regard. After I placed our order, I went back and got something for him. And he really did appreciate it.
I am worried that his need for spending time together vastly exceeds mine, and may even be stretching my limits. It is not too much of an exaggeration to say that I literally cannot go to the bathroom by myself. One night last week, I was stressed from work and kids and the upside-down-ness of our house, and I made time for myself to take a bath ... but as soon as I was settled in the tub, H came in to sit and talk with me. I really struggle in those situations to say, "I love you and I love spending time with you, but I really just need to be alone right now." (See above: how raising an issue feels like exposing a vulnerability.)
This sounds really melancholic as I read it back to myself, but I don't feel sad. I love my husband. We have so much fun together, we share the same values, our kids are each other's kids, we are a family and, in time, it will feel like this is the life we have always lived. My first marriage already feels like it happened to someone else. I was sorting through some old things the other night and came across a shoebox of memorabilia from my first wedding. I showed H a couple of things and he gave me a big frown (i.e., the face he makes when he's being sympathetic) and I realized that I felt not one little shred of sadness or nostalgia or ANYTHING about those items. I saved some of them because I thought that my daughter might enjoy going through them when she's older but ... they are just things that happened to me, no more significant to my personal history than a movie I saw, or a book I read. And I'm totally ok with that.
I hear ya about the scars of your first marriage being an issue with any subsequent serious relationships. I know that no marriage is ever perfect and that relationships are often not easy, but those scars add an extra degree of difficulty don't they?
About your XH not even admitting to, let alone apologising for, his terrible behaviour during the supposed reconciliation work. Were I the OW, listening to your XH rabbiting on about how *everything* was your fault, I'd be seeing big red flags. No wonder she didn't want to ditch her H for him. He simply wasn't worth it.
After my XH left me, I had a male friend indicate he wanted a serious relationship with me. He's been separated from his W for around 10 years now, and he still maintains she's a crazy demon who couldn't get anything in their M right. I asked him how he could truly believe everything was all her fault and he stoutly maintained "because it was" - which made me question why he was even my friend. That kind of talk is really, really disturbing.
Anyway, I'm delighted to hear that you found yourself something much, much better than you lost. Good on you both!
About your XH not even admitting to, let alone apologising for, his terrible behaviour during the supposed reconciliation work. Were I the OW, listening to your XH rabbiting on about how *everything* was your fault, I'd be seeing big red flags. No wonder she didn't want to ditch her H for him. He simply wasn't worth it.
Oh my goodness yes. Before I knew about OW, I often wondered what he would tell a new woman about the reasons for our divorce. I suppose he could be vague (“She was awful and controlling and I tried everything to make it work, including years of counseling, but she wouldn’t change so I left her.”) but I certainly wouldn’t have been satisfied by that explanation from a man I was dating. Anything more specific (assuming it was truthful) would be a huge red flag. I can’t imagine getting into a relationship with someone whose understanding of commitment basically boiled down to “I get to leave if I’m not happy,” which is pretty much what he told me during our final “This marriage is over” conversation.
Elsa,
I am happy to hear that you are in a good place. I have not read your thread, but was curious, do you have children from your first marriage?
So there is a total of how many kids now with your new H?
I had one and he had four, so 5 kids total. (Looks like we have that in common!) Both custody arrangements are 50-50.
It’s been a loooong week. I was in a pretty bad car accident on Monday, on Wednesday we had to put down a beloved pet, and on Thursday one of my step kids had an important doctor’s appointment regarding an on-going health issue, and he may need (more) surgery in the near future.
My husband also had his annual check up this week. Months ago, he told me he was going to ask at this check up about getting his vasectomy reversed so we could try to have a baby together. I remembered that he had said this before he went to the appointment, but I didn’t remind him because (1) with everything else we had going on, it seemed like a silly thing for me to be concerned about and (2) part of me wanted to see if he would remember on his own. I know I’m carrying over baggage from my first marriage — my xH perpetually procrastinated on having children, we had the one child we did only because I pushed him into it, he resented me for not giving him more time, and he never wanted to discuss the issue because it stressed him out.
Now, I’m afraid to ask my husband what the doctor said because I’m afraid that either he didn’t, in which case I’m going to be hurt that he didn’t remember to do it/assume that he doesn’t really want to have a baby with me, or he did, but bringing it up will stress him out (and also worry that the fact that he didn’t think to tell me what the doctor said will also mean he doesn’t really want to have a baby with me).
I know I’m being silly, but I had to get that off my chest.
Now, I’m afraid to ask my husband what the doctor said because I’m afraid that either he didn’t, in which case I’m going to be hurt that he didn’t remember to do it/assume that he doesn’t really want to have a baby with me, or he did, but bringing it up will stress him out (and also worry that the fact that he didn’t think to tell me what the doctor said will also mean he doesn’t really want to have a baby with me).
Elsa,
You're putting undo stress on yourself and your husband. If he didn't see the doctor, it doesn't mean that he doesn't want to have a baby with you. Most guys would rather have brain surgery than allow some total stranger to cut up their nuts. I put-off my vasectomy for a year and a half because I didn't want some guy to touch my junk. There's surgery and then there's nut surgery; they're two totally different things. Don't go nuts over his reluctance to have the reversal surgery; it's normal for a guy to have some fear and trepidation.
And..."undo" should be "undue."
Hello all. It's been a while since I last posted. I celebrated my first wedding anniversary with my husband yesterday! Everything is going very well. He had a vasectomy reversal a few weeks ago, and we're both looking forward to expanding our family in the New Year. (It's amazing how he finds opportunities to express how excited he is about this; I seriously did not know that husbands could feel that way based on my previous experience.)
Things with XH have been rough this year, mostly due to some lingering trust issues that came up during an on-going disagreement regarding our daughter. But, it seems to be resolved, at least for now. XH recently told me he is dating someone and it is getting serious and he wants to introduce her to our daughter. I am genuinely happy for him and hope this means he is turning a new leaf in his life. (He never did acknowledge the existence of OW to me, and I hope for his new girlfriend's sake he isn't still seeing her.)
It's funny -- I still think he was wrong to have left and broken up our family, but the more I interact with him (and reflect on past interactions) I realize what a difficult person he was to live with. I'm never going to say that our divorce was "for the best" but I love my (current) husband and think we are MUCH better suited for each other than XH and I ever were.
Hello elsa
I used to post on here as Julieh. I think we used to post to each other.
I can totally relate to those lingering feelings of anger about the gaslighting amd secrecy, even while moving forward with your life in a positive way.
My ex blamed so much on me. And then i found out he had a secret alcohol problem and was withdrawing 700 a week from bad neighborhoods for a minimum of 3 years. I still havent found out if there was a OW. But i would imagine there has to be. And it still enrages and upsets me so so much. Its like they didnt even respect us enough to just come clean. If i had known i would have detached so much earlier.
Thanks for posting. Im glad things are looking up for you. Congratulations.