Well - my four year romance with Mr. Tall Dark and Handsome has ended, not with a whimper or a bang, but with a nuclear event.
Some background - Mr. TDH was a recovering addict. He won me over with his self-awareness, his loving kindness towards me and my family, and he spoke my love languages. He made me feel cherished and loved in a delightful way. He seemed grateful for every day of healthy living and worked hard to maintain his health.
He had some quirks but I wrote them off as residuals from his addiction history or due to learning how to function as a sober adult.
He's been sober for 7 years, we were together for 4.
Well, at the beginning of April he relapsed. In a spectacular, "suddenly depressed, I'm going to go smoke crack on skid row to kill myself " sort of way.
The last three weeks have been a long saga including three psych hospitalizations, I've had to call the police on him twice to take him in, psych meds, all the kinds of crazy stuff you might expect. At first I fought mightily to try to get him a two week mandatory psych hold ( no luck - our system is terrible) and proper care and treatment.
In the midst of all this, I discover - wait for it - he's had a side chick for the LAST THREE YEARS!
Wow - was I snowed. I never would have guessed; he adored me more than any man I ever dated.
You'd think I would be devastated, but oddly, I'm not. I feel like I've done everything possible to get him help, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. It almost feels like a get out of jail free card. I might feel compassion for the addict, but the sociopathy involved in lying for three years? There's no fix for that character defect and I want no part of it.
Luckily for me, the side chick is pretty codependent, and I'm hoping she will care for his immediate needs so I can just quietly back out of the room. He's clearly got issues WAY beyond any I ever imagined. I feel stupid for being deceived, but not heartbroken. Before I knew any of this stuff, I would have said he was a pretty great boyfriend; I'll just remember the nice parts and move on from the train wreck.
So glad that I never lived with him, kept our finances separate, etc. My life is full and happy without a man, and the good parts of our relationship actually highlighted for me what I would like in a future relationship ( minus the sociopathic deception of course).
Fingers crossed that he leaves me alone as he moves along whatever his path is going to be.
Oh my goodness KML, that is quite an implosion and I'm so sorry to read that. It sounds as though he has some significant difficulties and I hope he manages to work through these.
As you say, it is good that your living and monetary arrangements are separate. That's a lot cleaner and easier to walk away from. And ugh, to find there has been OP in the mix for most of the time you were together...I can see why you would want to walk away without a backward glance in all those circumstances.
I'm glad to read you aren't devastated, and I know from reading your posts that you are an independent woman with plenty of resourcefulness and a full life. Still, healing time is important and take all that you need for yourself because that's a rough turn of events for sure.
((((((Big hugs))))) xx
Oh no Ellie!
I am so sorry to hear this. Addiction is a very hard and scary thing and you are quite a woman for doing the best to do the best to help him. The side piece for 3 years however? Wow. Some people are scarily deceptive.
I admire your attitude and that you are taking the good pieces, leaving behind the bad and moving forward. You sure are one strong woman.
Oh No!
I'm so sorry! Addiction is terrible. I know you were quite happy w/ Mr. TDH so I'm very sorry you don't have that now. However, you are right in that it is good you never lived together. Much harder to unentangle.
I finally really broke up w/ my contractor/Aikido sensei guy... It has been a long go of trying to work things out but in the end he has way too much work to do on himself.
For the sake of my relationship w/ his 9 y.o. daughter I still have meals with them about 1x a week. It is hard to maintain boundaries w/ the dad..but we try.
The most annoying thing is that friends are immediately trying to hook me up with somebody (totally not interested at this time).
Hope you feel OK and are able to move on quickly. It sounds like that's the case.
Take care! (((((hugs)))))
SG
You'd think I would be devastated, but oddly, I'm not.
Glad to hear this.
Life has a peculiar way of giving us more than we can handle.
Sorry he couldn't keep it together but maybe you are
better off that this happened before you made a
more permanent commitment to him.
It is pretty shocking that he had someone on the side.
I guess I will never understand that.
Hey SG -
Sorry to hear about your guy, but I know last time you visited that you were sounding like it was winding down for you. Frankly, at this age, if a guy isn't adding something important to my life, they may not be worth the trouble.
One silver lining to the fact that I dated all those Love Avoidant guys before Mr. TDH - I still have a roster of guys who would be more than willing to have me come over for a fun casual date-with-benefits, so long as I don't expect anything more from them. Not that it appeals at the moment, but if I get lonely it's good to know they're there.
In fact, I could see myself turning into one of those Love Avoidant types myself if I'm not careful. Maybe this is how it starts!
Anyway, not in any kind of mood to date anytime soon, that's for sure!
Frankly, at this age, if a guy isn't adding something important to my life, they may not be worth the trouble.
So true! I do have to say...my guy was great for me in that he really boosted my self esteem. He was so appreciative and attentive...in the beginning. His own depression and complicated life were intruding on MY life way too much. So he was adding something important for the first few years. Then the relationship started sucking the life out of me. <sigh>
Last night I was thinking about Mr. TDH and the side chick. What an @ss! I'm glad you're doing OK. In the GAL department you are really shining! I think that is a great thing about DB...GAL really allows you to weather various storms.
Take care!
SG
So sorry to hear this KML..R after a divorce are hard. I can't understand the cheating. I really don't get it. Do these people know the hurt they cause by cheating?
So sorry, KML. Betrayal is always devastating...along with the rest of it. Wish I could say more but...hang in there and heal. We're thinking of you here.
Yeah, betrayal and deception are rotten. Yet after my ex's betrayal, stuff like this seems like small potatoes. I'm just looking for the best way to extricate myself while still helping him get into the treatment he needs first.
The peculiar relief I feel helps me to know that he was a stressor in my life even before all this started - he just needed a lot of guidance, it was almost like having another kid sometimes. He could be a really good shoulder to lean on in bad times, I'll grant him that - but he also had a lot of needs and could be a bit erratic. Of course, now I wonder how much of what I attributed to residue from his past, was actually a consequence of the double life he was living in the present.
Yesterday Mr TDH went to a rehab a couple of hours away. I managed to talk his side chick into driving him there. I feel much safer with him out of town.
The cherry on top? This morning it occurred to me I could check his phone records ( he's on my family plan). Of course, tons of calls to the side chick. But a couple of other suspect numbers so I called them. One was a woman who had just started dating him a few times before his implosion. He had told her he'd been single for two years. And he had called her from one of his psych hospitaluzations this month to tell her he'd been in an "accident". Yeah, if you call trying to escape and being tackled by the ER staff and your ribs getting broken cuz you're high on drugs an accident, well , ok then .
I still haven't told him what I know. I'm going to wait until he's been stable for a while in rehab. But I'm SO completely over it!!!!
KML,
I am sorry to hear this. However, I know you will get thru this and be even better than before. The betrayal rocks us though.
I'll be fine. I'm not feeling any heartbreak - finding out the sociopathy involved cured me of ANY longing. And given that it was preceded by the month of crazy behavior - relief is more the word.
Hahaha - confirmed with the side-chick that he called us both by the same unique nickname. Guess that made it easier not to slip up. I'm still amazed that he could manage not to send the wrong text to the wrong woman all these years!
Oh, Ellie. Here I was, hoping that you had the fairy tale. I'm sorry it had the ending it did - there are so many better ways to do it, but I guess you have to pay heed to the finality of things? Sometimes, there's a good reason for the napalm ending?
In fact, I could see myself turning into one of those Love Avoidant types myself if I'm not careful. Maybe this is how it starts!
Speaking from experience [cough], yes. That's how my path to love avoidance began. I'm trying to keep an open mind - for the future. I don't want to say NEVER, but... right now I say with conviction that I enjoy my life flying solo.
Good luck, and hope you create some good stuff out of this mess.
Hugs-Betsey
I'll be fine. I'm not feeling any heartbreak - finding out the sociopathy involved cured me of ANY longing. And given that it was preceded by the month of crazy behavior - relief is more the word.
I get this^^....the long term deceit is so weird and requires such cognitive dissonance.
I almost wanted to analyze your TDH and his escape mechanisms, blah blah blah
Who cares? You didn't have kids together and there was no commitment or m, and so
ta ta a$$hole.
And though it always hurts to be betrayed, in this case I say thank GOD there's a side chick - to do some heavy lifting in case TDH goes totally bonkers
again.
SO - not your problem. You are on your path and just stay on it. You're taking what you want from the R and the good memories, and leaving the rest...
And though it always hurts to be betrayed, in this case I say thank GOD there's a side chick - to do some heavy lifting in case TDH goes totally bonkers again.
Ah, I think she's done too. Once she figured out he had been totally lying to her about our relationship - she apparently is co-dependent enough that she would break up with him, then he would feed her some BS like we had broken up, or I was seeing someone else, or we were just friends - but now that she knows we were together all the time, she's pretty much done with him too. I wish she wasn't - it would make it easier to just shift his attention on to her and off of me - but she doesn't deserve the treatment he gave her either.
I did get the best of it - I was naively unaware so I had 4 years of a nice relationship. She had three years of Sturm und Drang and pain and suffering because of what she knew and how he treated her.
Just trying to figure out the best (safest) way and time to tell him I'm NOT going to continue in a relationship with him.
is he clean now, or in some deluded wacko state, or do you know?
He's in a rehab/sober living house 2 hours away since Saturday. Probably just getting the last of the drugs out of his system since it was an impressive month-long off-and-on binge and since he was smoking something in the car on the way up there with the side chick driving (he almost jumped ship in downtown L.A.).
He's calling and texting me all this sweet B.S. because he's trying to keep me in the relationship, but he doesn't know that I know ALL about him and the side chick and others. I'm waiting for him to get a little more stabilized before I tell him he can't come back to me. I don't think I'm going to bring up the other women though; challenging his "livelihood" might provoke too much of a sociopathic backlash, so instead I'm just trying to come up with a plausible "It's not you, it's me, the feeling is gone and I just can't get it back, I just don't want a man in my life right now" kind of BS excuse that sounds FIRM enough.
He's full of "oh, I'm doing the work, I'm gonna earn my way back to you " but I KNOW he is not admitting at ALL to his grifting and other issues with women. I'm just looking for the safest exit strategy that won't provoke him.
Oh - and get this - when the side chick went to junk his car (which was in HER name and has a cracked engine block) - she was cleaning out the car and found the glove box was full of condoms lolol. Who keeps condoms in their glove box????
Oh - and get this - when the side chick went to junk his car (which was in HER name and has a cracked engine block) - she was cleaning out the car and found the glove box was full of condoms lolol. Who keeps condoms in their glove box????
ugh
get tested, thank your lucky stars you found out before any legal entanglement, and move your tent to a new village far away as soon as you safely can, leaving no forwarding address!!!
I'm very sorry for the nuclear meltdown but happy you are doing well in the midst of it. {{{{{hugs}}}}}
and remember, not your monkey, not your circus!
To my great relief, I never once had unprotected sex with him! Also he was pretty thoroughly tested (HIV etc) a year ago before being treated for hepatitis C. Thank goodness.
Yesterday Mr. TDH - now known as Sociopathic Ex Boyfriend or Mr. SEB - finally seemed to notice my distinct lack of enthusiasm in answering his text messages and offered to "give me some space" - an offer I promptly took him up on.
It has been blessedly quiet today
without the constant lovey messages about how well he's doing and the great insights he's gaining and how much he misses me. (Not that I don't wish him luck in his recovery - I do - it's just that I know as long as he's lying about major portions of his life, his recovery cannot be truly deep and lasting. I feel like much of what he is telling me is for show.) It takes all my strength to bite his tongue and not ask him how much he is missing the new chick he started dating right before his meltdown.
He did, of course, then quickly petition me to send him his replacement phone which just arrived at my house. On the one hand, I'm reluctant to send it yet (he lost TWO phones during his month long binge, and he's only been sober 9 days). On the other hand, I figure the sooner he gets that phone, the sooner he can move on to new female targets that will take his focus off of me. So I will probably send it to him later this week.
It takes all my strength to bite his tongue
LOL - I meant to bite MY tongue hahaha
Sounds better the other way
V
Ugh. Long text exchange with SEB last night. He had the gaslights turned up full force! But he doesn't know that I know everything.
Tried to convince me he never actually slept with another woman while we were together. But I know for a fact that he was sleeping with his side chick for at least two years. And according to her, even once she cut him off from that, he would come over and engage in "foreplay" (I don't even want to know the details).
And his phone records show him texting and calling her as much or more than me over the last year.
I'm still protecting the side chick because she is scared of him, so I don't let him know that I know about his relationship with her. I did mention his most recent dates with a new woman he started up with right before his relapse. I discovered her by his phone records and called her.
Hoping he will back off and transfer his interest to another woman now that he realizes I've got his number.
Ugh. He just texted me again, all apologetic. I just want him to get well and GO AWAY.
You are a very strong good woman. I hope he just goes away soon.
Ellie
where is his stuff? He needs to go a-w-a-y...
I'd consider saying that you are aware of his disease AND his deceit
and you don't have room in your life for either. Then block his phone.
I'm serious. It's HIS rehab, not yours.
What little is left of his stuff is stored in my garage. There is no one I can transfer it to right now and I don't want to spend money on storage.
I'm approaching everything from the aspect of what's safest. The safest thing is for him to get well grounded back into his sobriety, and staying where he is now is the best place to accomplish that. The safest thing is also for him not to have a grudge towards me over getting rid of his stuff. I'm making all my choices very carefully with safety in mind.
I only told him what I knew about the latest chick in hopes that he will start to look for another woman to focus on now that he knows I know some of his secrets. I'll be sending him his new phone soon in order to facilitate that behavior.
Don't worry, I'm not the least bit susceptible to being drawn back in, but I think cutting him off cold would be dangerous for me and likely send him back out into the streets. What I DON'T want is for him to be back out on the streets, high and focused on ME as the agent of his destruction. Making careful chess moves.
What little is left of his stuff is stored in my garage.
You can donate his stuff to Goodwill. They'll send a truck to pick up the stuff and donations are tax deductible.
Hello
I've not read up on your whole situation and thinking about it, but I just remembered something that might be of help. You might already know about this, of course
Have you come across the 'grey rock' theory/behaviour? If you haven't, it might be worth checking out. I might help you back away from this whole situation in a really safe way.
I have a feeling that you might be really good at it, you're very aware/self aware and very good at controlling your thinking/actions in his regard. Might be worth a try?
Yes, I did read the gray rock theory, that's what I'm trying to do.
I donated a lot of his stuff to goodwill and put most of his furniture in a consignment store. I am just keeping for him the few things he asked for - his bedroom set and nice television, a few nice clothes. I'm happy to do that for him, as when he does move back out on his own he will have a nice bedroom and that will mean a lot to him. Getting rid of it now would be spiteful and likely to trigger a lasting grudge, which I DON'T want.
Yes, I did read the gray rock theory, that's what I'm trying to do.
Thought that you might already know about it
I donated a lot of his stuff to goodwill and put most of his furniture in a consignment store. I am just keeping for him the few things he asked for - his bedroom set and nice television, a few nice clothes. I'm happy to do that for him, as when he does move back out on his own he will have a nice bedroom and that will mean a lot to him. Getting rid of it now would be spiteful and likely to trigger a lasting grudge, which I DON'T want.
I understand.
An encounter with an ex-roommate of Mr SEB this morning - I learned even more about the depth of his sociopathy. Perfect timing as it definitely offset the two dozen roses and schmaltzy card Mr. SEB sent this morning.
I love a good hoover manoeuvre
Just switch from up to out on the suction.
V
Lol - yup, he's hoovering for sure. But I'm completely not susceptible, he wasted his money.
The flowers make me a little nauseous, to tell the truth.
Ellie checking in on you - you ok?
Yeah, I'm ok. Trying to respond to his texts with the bare minimum - gray rock approach. I have an excuse as I am studying for a big exam right now.
I'm trying to wait until he starts his intensive psychiatric treatment at the beginning of June before I inform him that we are really over. Meanwhile he posted a montage of photos of us together on FB yesterday calling me his "best friend and love of my life". All I think when I see those pictures is: "Wow, they look like such a nice couple, no one would ever suspect that he was LYING AND CHEATING ON HER THAT WHOLE TIME!"
Now that he has his phone back, I can see that he is reaching out to some of his former/other women. I'm hoping he lines something up to take the focus off of me.
The side chick also texted me yesterday. She asked me if he had his phone now and if he was contacting me - I told her yes. I think she's stuck in this weird place - she doesn't want to go back to him, and she doesn't want to see me go back given what she knows about him (she doesn't know that I know more than she thinks). BUT she's also still jealous and pissed off that he's calling me and not her. Guess it's finally sinking in to her that it was all lies when he told her how
special" and different she was from all his other women.
Of course, he's still contacting me because he thinks I could still be useful to him. She just got evicted and is living out of her car while she tries to find a new apartment, so she can't help him in any way. Also I think he's really scared of her telling me his secrets (he doesn't know that we've already spoken).
Saw Fox news people tweeting about what a great guy Roger Ailes was and how he loved his wife - ummm, NOT. Guys who love their wives do not sexually harass other women at work. Suspect he was a sociopath just like ex-boyfriend.
good luck on the exam sweets. glad you checked in to let us know you were ok. xoxoxo sending you good thoughts.
Hi there..
Congratulations on flicking the blood sucking tick from your life. You know what is one of the best things about rehab? He has people around him who are knowledgeable, supportive and can call him on BS. This is a great time to let him know where you stand! And he learns the consequences of his actions.
The question is.. how do you change the tape in your head from what's safest for him to what's healthiest for you?
Sending good thoughts and apologies if I overstepped.
Not so much worried about what's safest for him, as about what's safest for ME. If he leaves rehab and goes back out on the street smoking crack, I will NOT feel safe. The longer he stays in that rehab, the better the chance he will stay sober for a while and not be a threat. I'm waiting until his intensive program with psychiatrists and stuff starts st the beginning of June, as I think he will then have better support to get through me telling him it's all over. I'm being pretty much a gray rock but just haven't had the final talk yet because I'm waiting for that.
Morning Ellie,
Yes, I think you are wise. Also, I'm sure you've changed locks, alarm codes, etc. Even if you think he doesn't know the code or have a key - change it anyway. Better safe than to find out some other way that he has access. Again, I'm sure you've thought of this.
Extricating yourself with surgical precision while making sure there's no excess bleeding is a great plan.
Have you thought about Alanon or Naranon meetings, short term? Might be helpful.
Also, just wanted to say that I am in the throes of re-reading my threads - a page from Cali's book - and from the beginning you were always very supportive. I truly appreciate that.
xoxoxo
What a nightmare scenario and prudent plan.
bttrfly's post says it all.
Did you used to play drums in a band?
Good Morning Ellie!
What exam are you studying for ? Did you get a new car yet? I'm pretty sure I'm going to get a Mazda 5...have you checked those out? VERY roomy inside with the seats down and has a nice sporty drive to it.
So... I don't know about you, but my recent break up with my guy has made me question a LOT about myself. Things like...
*what red flags did I miss?
*what kind of self talk do I do to accept less than the best?
My ex-boyfriend was a great balm for my damaged self-worth...in the beginning. But as things progressed I ended up carrying more of the load emotionally and financially. It was very hard to un entangle...but now that I have everything is so much better.
I'm glad SEB is two hours away. Take care of yourself!
The question is.. how do you change the tape in your head from what's safest for him to what's healthiest for you?
SG
The exam was for a new, official, integrative medicine board. I have the opportunity to be grandfathered in; after this, new applicants will have to do a fellowship. The test was a bear, keeping fingers crossed. Luckily they were simple multiple choice questions, so even when guessing I could usually eliminate two answers and have a 50:50 chance of being right on my remaining guess.
Yes, I used to play drums in a band. Will start looking again for a new band in the summer, have been too busy with this other stuff plus playing some vibraphone gigs with my friend whose new album just came out ( my first official recording credit!).
Going to have a girls hangout with my friend today, saw the new Alien movie with my son this morning.
Chatted with a couple of my ex-boyfriends about the situation, they've been a nice support.
I feel slightly more relaxed with my exam over, although my youngest is suffering pretty badly from depression and that's a big worry. I just keep putting one foot in front of the other. I have a conference to go to in a couple of weeks, that will be a good mental distraction.
So... I don't know about you, but my recent break up with my guy has made me question a LOT about myself. Things like...
*what red flags did I miss?
*what kind of self talk do I do to accept less than the best?
I think my self talk was fine - here was a guy who was ready and available for a relationship and treated me like a princess. Or at least that was how he presented. I certainly felt like I deserved to be treated like a princess, so I didn't question that part!
The red flags? He was awfully smooth, so they weren't all that easy to see, but in retrospect:
- a couple of suspicious events that he explained away. I'm probably not suspicious enough.
- the bigger red flag, which I ignored in my ex and in SEB, which I never should have ignored: a tendency towards dishonesty in little things. I'm a super honest girl scout type, and I guess I've just come to accept that not everyone sees things as black and white as I do. I'll never ignore it again though if I'm dating someone who tries to game the system in ANY way.
- and although it didn't play a direct role that I can see, SEB had OCD like my ex. I always thought at least it wasn't directed towards me the way ex's was, and I have kids with OCD. But next time I'm not going to date anyone with OCD, bad luck for me.
- and the elephant in the room - he's the first person I ever dated with an addiction history. He charmed me into believing he was so solid in his recovery, and seemed so great in other ways, that I accepted the inherent risk in his history. But now that I understand the very high statistical risk of sociopathy in someone with a history like his, I won't ever be so naive again.
What WOULD I like in a new guy? Not sure I even want one - I may become a Love Avoidant casual dater myself. But - it would be nice to have someone who treated me like SEB did and was HONEST. I liked being pampered for the first time in my life. I liked being with someone who spoke my love language of physical touch. SEB was smart but not intellectual; I did miss having someone to share books and movies with. I'd like any future guy to be someone I could share more intellectual things with.
Also any future guy has to have his financial house in order. Even though I didn't support SEB, his finances/spending habits/ other issues were a strain on me, took up more worry energy than I should have been expending. In fact, I realize none of the guys I dated since my divorce really had their act together financially. (Even the first guy, who owned a restaurant and seemed stable; a while after our breakup, a leak from his coffee machine flooded the shop below. He had let his insurance lapse and ended up losing his restaurant. )
So - I realize that even though I'm not financially supporting any of these guys, if they're not fiscally responsible I feel the anxiety in my own life. Any next guy needs to be a true adult where money is concerned.
Does it sound too materialistic to say financial solvency is on my list of "must haves"?
I've already been warned that people our age often look for "a nurse or a purse" and I don't want to be either.
Am I on to something or going in the wrong direction?
I'm so over the grandpa boyfriend wannabes!!! and the kids looking for a cougar aren't too high on my list either.
Ellie I'm sure you knocked it out of the park on the exam. Glad you're at least thinking of what you'd like if you did move forward with another person.
xoxoxo
what's a "grandpa wannabe"?? I have so much catching up to do!
As for the red flags from this day forward...
I now feel that any lie, no matter how small, would be a deal breaker. I am not referring to someone exaggerating a detail, (especially to make the story funnier!!). I mean a factual misstatement said to cover or help themselves in some way.
From the "I'm late b/c traffic was bad" (and you know traffic wasn't bad) to the leaving out of a crucial detail.
Even if you think he simply miscalculated the time needed and wasn't doing anything "wrong", it's the fact that he won't admit he dropped the ball that is so revealing. That someone would lie to avoid admitting even the tiniest of mistakes, is an absolute deal breaker for me.
This is something I know.
I don't care about the being late nearly as much as I care about being lied to.
Small and big lies (and secrets!!) and
lying by omission (a fav of my stbxh) undermine the foundation of the relationship...lying by omission is a huge form of gas lighting and is harder to prove..."I didn't LIE, I just forgot/didn't think it was important/was going to tell you..." Man, I put up with way way too much of that. I'm mad at myself.
and that weird feeling you get when you sense it, ALL of these makes you withhold some of yourself, and the withholding will undermine and then sink the whole r.
The "vocational expert" hired by my stbxh asked me why I think we are getting a D.
I was surprised by the question and shocked at how many things I felt were part of it. So I blathered on...
I could say "extreme conflict avoidance" but that is just another way of saying "kept secrets" which is usually related to not wanting to be seen at all in a bad light - which is about shame,
and all of that leads to being dishonest...
So regardless of the underlying reasons and the childhood crap, or my enabling, etc
I'd say "dishonesty". God, I am shaking my head. Such a dealbreaker.
Ellie, crossing fingers for the exam results!! When do you hear?
I've dubbed the guys in the late 60s-early 70s who are hitting on me as "Grandpa Boyfriend" wannabes, because they're old enough to be grandpas, but wannabe boyfriends.
YUCK.
I'm in my early 50s and have never had Daddy issues, and don't intend to start having them now!