I think the fat lady has sung for me. I'm trying to make sure that I hear her loud and clear. Because I went through a very amicable divorce, and I still have frequent contact w/ my ex due to parenting issues -- we're pretty collaborative/cooperative as of now -- I don't trust myself that I'm really hearing the fat lady sing.
Sorry if the fat lady expression is offensive to some.
The thing that I've been thinking about is this: in one of the posts in the MLC forum, I read someone's post about keeping the road back to the marriage smoothly paved. What does that mean? For my own emotional health, I'm thinking I shouldn't keep anything paved smooth; but rather I should burn all my emotional bridges so that I don't fool myself, that I clearly move on.
Would like y'all's thoughts on this.
I read someone's post about keeping the road back to the marriage smoothly paved. What does that mean? For my own emotional health, I'm thinking I shouldn't keep anything paved smooth; but rather I should burn all my emotional bridges so that I don't fool myself, that I clearly move on.
Welcome to the other side, Gump.
To me, that means that while you are traveling down your own road, make sure that you make yours inviting to her and not closed off. I'm afraid that maybe I did just that in mine by getting what I did in the divorce. Oh well, lessons learned.
Sometimes you just have to burn some bridges to create distance.
To me, I think keeping the road home paved and smooth is living you life just as you want and need to for yourself. it means not causing any uneccesary angst and anger. Not doing anything out of hurt and betrayal.
What does burning emotional bridges look like to you?
I like that, Ginger.
Probably one big thing about burning the emotional bridge is to see other people.
Probably one big thing about burning the emotional bridge is to see other people.
You'll find that even a coffee date will work wonders. It sort of validates us as being worthy again after being beaten down so badly in this process.
FG. I have no advice for you but am wishing you the best in this next step. I know you will do great for you and those kids.
Forgump
For me the fat lady sang very early. I knew that I did not want to be abused and cheated on. The fat lady sang Warner Ring in a very loud projection. Not even the deaf would miss it.
Are the bridges burned? Yes and the Gigalo ran a scorched earth policy.
To self protect and rebalance our lives sometimes this is necessary.
When kids are involved this may not be possible until D is finished and custody established.
I haven't been able to date yet as the fin part of my D isn't complete. That assumes that there are dates to go on.
Welcome to Surviving. Live in the slower Lane.
V
Hey FG -- hope you're doing well, and that your children are settling into a good routine and adapting.
FG- as far as dating goes, you go ahead and do that when you feel as if you are really ready to. When you stop holding onto hope. Dating does not burn a bridge. If it is meant to happen it will. You need to live your life as if she isn't coming back. You can't go on forever like she is.
^ What she said.
Dating isn't burning bridges. However, going out can work wonders for the soul. Sometimes, burning bridges is the only way to create distance.
You have gotten some great advice for me so I just wanted to say that I agree with the lovely lady Vanilla. For me, I burned the bridge way early and I'm glad I did because it allowed me to see that I was better off without my ex. I realize not everyone is in that boat, but for me, I was cheated on and I wouldn't allow that to continue, so I torched that darn bridge and never looked back. And, I also agree with what Ginger and Jeep both said...you have to live like she isn't coming back and sometimes you have to burn the bridge to get the distance you need to work on YOU. And, isn't that really what is important here....working on YOU?
Dawn, thanks for your post. Things still feel ... in flux for me. I feel movement under my feet. I feel like I'm on a big ferry and it's leaving a homeland. I see the distance in the water increasing.
I took a quick look at your original post, Dawn. One root problem in your previous marriage was a mismatch in sex drive. What happened on that front? Was there anything to be done to resolve that difference between the two of you? Was it too late to fix? What is your attitude about sex now? Has it changed?
ForGump,
You said on your other thread you have been helping XW with some of the areas where she is lacking in life skills? Was that good or bad for you? I had one of those incidents this past week where my W was asking me something she knows nothing about and then got frustrated with me when I tried to explain it to her.
Also, re physical intimacy, how are you doing managing yourself? I feel like your XW neglected you for a very long time and that can certainly cause some damage to the psyche. Are you working through these issues with a counselor or friend or someone else? Feel free to ignore if this is too intimate to answer, but have just been concerned about you given how things transpired.
G-
Thanks for saying what you said. It feels good and gives me hope for getting into a physically (sexually) healthier relationship. It was really boom & bust for me in that department w/ my XW so ... I'm looking forward to being together with someone who is more stable in that department. But then at my age range ... I see a lot of people (men and women) who just don't appear physically healthy to me. So maybe I have to adjust my expectations? I don't have the sex drive I did as a 20 year old but I feel I am in pretty good physical health, not just sexually but in most other ways.
I can count the days I've been with a woman (my XW) ... but I'm not focusing on it. I have had, and can understand the allure of fairly casual sex but I don't know, I'm not itching for it. I guess if things just fell into place I'd be eager to follow through but I'm not going to go hang out at a bar or do Tinder or something like that to hook up. Just how DO 50 year olds hook up? I have no idea.
I have talked about this w/ my IC and she has encouraged me to date in general but hasn't identified some type of sexual dysfunction as something I should work on. She did say that when a co-dependent like myself fall in love with an intensely needy person like my XW, it is like being hooked on a drug. I experienced my own intense euphoria when I initially fell in love with my XW, and that's something I have to recover from. I think I recognize that dynamic, as that has happened to me one before with someone who was very intensely physical, and I had a hard time getting over her.
I'm not sure if I answered your question but ... maybe my answer is that it is something I'm cognizant of but nothing particular I am working on. I haven't met w/ my IC for a while now because I've been feeling fairly stable and content -- dare I say happy? But I will keep this in mind, both to mull over myself and to bring up w/ my IC.
But yeah, it would be a dream to be in a relationship w/ someone whose sexual drive was healthy, steady, giving and satisfying.
ForGump,
It sounds like you've already/are dealing with this, which is good! I was reading an article that this is one of the taboo subjects when a spouse leaves or dies and that it actually helps when someone else even asks/acknowledges it as an issue (family and friends find it awkward to ask), so I was emboldened.
Re casual sex, I think some people get pleasure from that, but others do not. I'm in the latter category, as far as I know, but have really only had one sexual relationship my whole life. You know yourself better than anyone else, so trust yourself.
Re 50 year old dating and hook ups, I'm not the expert (have never used a dating app), but I have enough single friends in that age range that I know it does happen.
Re health, the sad truth is most Americans by their 40s and 50s aren't in great shape, so if that's important to you, maybe you need to become more socially involved with a coed group of people that are interested in fitness/fitness related activities.
Glad to hear you are happy! You continue to be a source of support and inspiration to me in this journey.
I was reading an article that this is one of the taboo subjects when a spouse leaves or dies and that it actually helps when someone else even asks/acknowledges it as an issue (family and friends find it awkward to ask), so I was emboldened.
I'm all ears for becoming a healthier person, for the short-term and the long-term, in this department. I'm curious what this article suggests. What are some things the article suggests?
If you google Jane Brody and sex...you'll find it. The article just focused on the fact that missing/griveing sex is normal and that it's healthy for friends, family and counselors to be open about that...and that it's nothing the LBS spouse should feel guilty about...the only recommendation was not to jump into a new relationship just for sexual reasons...but think you already know that.
As a counterpoint, I have a friend who is my age and his W left him and his two kids for an OM (serious affair down, but you probably already guessed that). He doesn't want to bring another woman into his children's lives, so he restricts himself only to casual relationships. He makes it clear to his girlfriends upfront that he doesn't want a serious relationship and that he is divorced and raising two children on his own and that he has no intention of introducing another woman into their lives. That's his choice and what he thinks is right for him and his kids...and he has had no shortage of girlfriends/sexual partners. He said he'll consider serious dating when the kids are out of the house.
Joining in here
I think physical intimacy is a natural and wonderful thing. Many of us have certainly been deprived of it as our marriages crumbled and thereafter.
For me, it's a bit of a catch 22. I crave physical intimacy however I don't really want physical intimacy without the emotional connection. But I am not really emotionally healthy enough to connect.
Sex and dating is so different now then when i was single. I Was so young when I was dating my ex, that a lot of my ideas about sex are more relationship centered...still a big deal in my mind. Casual sex still is taboo for me and doesn't quite register even though I know it is so common and easy with dating apps like tinder.
It's surreal because we're still so amicable, because we're still really collaborative about our kids, because I still give out cake now and gain, because it took a long time to divorce ... sometimes I find myself asking, My God, how did I get here? How is it that my kids and I are sitting here in a whole 'nother house, sitting down for dinner, smiling, chatting.. everything seeming so normal... but with my kids' mother gone, missing, absent?
I gotta keep telling myself ... man, she $#@! divorced you. After all those years, after all that you've poured into the marriage, into loving her ...
SHE #^@%!&@! DIVORCED YOU.
I've got to mantra-up.
It's surreal because we're still so amicable, because we're still really collaborative about our kids, because I still give out cake now and gain, because it took a long time to divorce ... sometimes I find myself asking, My God, how did I get here? How is it that my kids and I are sitting here in a whole 'nother house, sitting down for dinner, smiling, chatting.. everything seeming so normal... but with my kids' mother gone, missing, absent?
Yes, yes it is. She's amicable because you are still the baker of the cakes - when that totally stops, a different "her" will appear.
I've asked those same questions. Only the air never answered. It is what it is, my friend. You are doing well - you have to, because your kids need you to.
Hey FG, just dropping into your new thread over here after a bit of an absence on my part. I hear what you are saying about it being strange with W not in the picture, but it did make me smile when you mentioned the kids smiling and normal in your new home. It's rough right now, but you are doing an amazing job of being there for the kids. Keep it up and stay strong brother.
LT-
Good to hear from you.
I'm spending less and less time on DB. Maybe this is the real sign of detaching, and all up to the divorce was just me imagining detaching? I don't know.
I will try to check in on your now & again. I hope things turn out good for you man. You've been through the wringer.
BTW, I'm on TW w/ Jeep et al ...
-FG
It very well could be my friend. I think you may be right that we believe detachment is happening but in reality we are still subject to our Ws behavior so long as they are around. Maybe the detachment really comes once that last thread of in house S is cut. Out of sight, out of mind maybe.
You sir have been a rock for me around here and I hope you know how much it's been appreciated. Your strength IS your strength brother. You are a strong dude and are one hell of a dad. Your kids are going to grow up and look back on how you weathered this storm and be thankful for you. I've no doubt they will flourish with you in your new home.
Appreciate the thoughts too FG. Still grinding on this end but I'm fairly certain of the ending. I think it's more a question of how the last leg of the journey plays out. You're right about the wringer, I think you, JR, and myself have all gotten beaten up by it since we got here. Seeing both of y'all prosper on the other side helps though.
All that said, I signed up for TW but have no clue how to find y'all. Keep an eye out for me stumbling around there! Stay strong brother!
Out of sight, out of mind maybe.
Bingo.
Friends who are aware that my XW and I were divorcing over a whole year ... that I hadn't touched her (sexually/romantically) for nearly a year ... are like, Yeah, it's time to go out and date!
Friends who aren't so aware, who just know about the big D happening this year, are like, What? Date? Already? Isn't it kind of early?
Friends who aren't so aware, who just know about the big D happening this year, are like, What? Date? Already? Isn't it kind of early?
Friends try to help in the only way they know, so to them it may seem early, when to you it isn't. They don't know the whole situation, and quite frankly, it isn't any of their business what happens. Sure, at some point they will find out, but it isn't up to you to justify your actions to them.
Friends who are aware that my XW and I were divorcing over a whole year ... that I hadn't touched her (sexually/romantically) for nearly a year ... are like, Yeah, it's time to go out and date!
Friends who aren't so aware, who just know about the big D happening this year, are like, What? Date? Already? Isn't it kind of early?
And when they say go out and date...are they setting you up with any friendly ladies?
Friends who are aware that my XW and I were divorcing over a whole year ... that I hadn't touched her (sexually/romantically) for nearly a year ... are like, Yeah, it's time to go out and date!
Friends who aren't so aware, who just know about the big D happening this year, are like, What? Date? Already? Isn't it kind of early?
And when they say go out and date...are they setting you up with any friendly ladies?
Good point gordie! Seems like a requirement if someone is going to give you that kind of advice!
And when they say go out and date...are they setting you up with any friendly ladies?
Not really. Those friends believe that setting up friends never work.
And, besides, as a co-dependent of a sort, it's probably good for me to do things for myself, learn to be more independent....
Yep. Go to a bookstore. Or maybe something linked to your hobbies where you have common interests. It's a lot easier than one thinks...
Forgump
A wingman perhaps?
Or wingperson or even a borrowed wingwoofie?
V
Good point. Yup, I can use a wing-person....
Wingmen can be great...have been/used one on several occasions.
What's up, FG? I hope you're adjusting well to your new life, and that your kids are doing well, too. Any tips? I'll be there very soon.
Your "hint" as to how to contact you has been removed. The Board policy doesn't allow us to share personal info, i.e., links to how we can contact each other.
JR no tips really
Other than to continue being true to your values, whether it means being nice to your STBX or not tolerating her b/s
As for all the feelings, let time take care of it, and in the mean time do what you have to do, or, better, do what you want to do
I feel as though waking from a long sleep, an illness
But things are fading in the rear view mirror and it feels good
Not perfect, but good
But things are fading in the rear view mirror and it feels good
Yeah man, one huge benefit to being divorced is freedom from the guilt of farting in bed after binge eating chips and onion dip. There's no more holding it back; just let it rip and watch the dog scurry out of the room. It's the simple things...
Thanks for the update, FG. It sounds like things are going well for you, and that makes me happy. I hope your kids are settling in and doing well, too.
STBX is closing on her new house 5/11 and moving out 5/20 (she wants to paint a few rooms before she moves, I think). Divorce will be final in early June. I still get sad at times even as I get increasingly more sure I dodged a bullet in not having to live the rest of my life with this woman. It is disturbing to me that I put up with so much -- really, put up with getting so little -- for so long, and I convinced myself I was ok with that. Guess I can't cancel IC just yet -- still some unpacking there, for sure.
Sorry FG for the hijack and I am glad that you are doing well.
JRuss,
"It is disturbing to me that I put up with so much -- really, put up with getting so little -- for so long, and I convinced myself I was ok with that."
Can you expand on the sentence above? Also, would you ever consider reconciliation if your wife admitted she made a big mistake?
LH19 -- my marriage, at least over the last 10 years of it, slowly devolved into one long, slow war of push/pull attrition, with me tying myself in knots trying to get my W to see the value in our marriage, and her always at least partly wondering/dreaming what it would be like not to have to be a full-time W and mother and always, at least on some level, communicating to me that she didn't think I or her life was good enough. There was no meeting of the minds/heart; she had no desire to deepen our connection, and that's what I was looking for and needing. I am still trying to learn some things about why I settled for that. I tell myself I did it for the kids, and that's certainly true to an extent, but some of that analysis is self-serving. Mainly I think I lacked the self-respect, deep down, to demand more and, if I didn't get it, be the one prepared to make a change.
No, I would not reconcile with her at this point. I've just never seen anything suggesting that she's capable of being in the sort of R that I now know I would want and need to have. She's a woman who voluntarily gave up half of her children's remaining childhoods so she could have a more stimulating life. I just find that repulsive, honestly, and pretty much irredeemable.
JRuss,
Thanks for expanding. My wife has also filed for divorce. I feel the same way in many aspects.
Deep down I know the kids and I will be fine. For the last so many years (can't even remember) none of my needs have been met.
I do know at times struggle with anxiety and the fear of the unknown. Some guilt because I could have been a better husband. I work though it.
One thing I do know is you are going to be just fine. You battled to the end for your kids and no one can ever take that away from you.
Thanks, LH, and I'm sorry you're in a similar situation. I'm pretty worn out at this point, but also spend a meaningful amount of time now in the lifting state, thinking about all of the things I want to do when she's finally gone, with the kids and without.
I do worry a lot about my children. S10 is showing signs of this negatively impacting him (schoolwork suffering, lashing out (especially at his mother), articulating a bleak outlook about life). I've talked to a child psychologist on his behalf, and she is going to see him at the end of May (was earliest appointment I could get), but he's very resistant to going (which I get, completely -- he's a shy 10-year old). Pretty much always without fail my W spits out the "Kids are resilient" line whenever she is forced to confront what D can do to them. I hope she's right.
On we go.
JR no tips really
Other than to continue being true to your values, whether it means being nice to your STBX or not tolerating her b/s
As for all the feelings, let time take care of it, and in the mean time do what you have to do, or, better, do what you want to do
I feel as though waking from a long sleep, an illness
But things are fading in the rear view mirror and it feels good
Not perfect, but good
2 things...your awakening resonates with me a lot. Like a fog is lifting.
Second, as confusing as it can be to have a cooperative wife and co-parent -
please know that those of us who are dealing with the alternative, either no contact or utter vilification, would give a lot to be in your shoes.
Easy to say, I know.
I would assume your w will have regrets. They may not be very deep, as it's a lot of damage to inflict on the people who loved you most and facing it would bring most of us to our knees.
But only a seismic change inside her, which you may never be aware of b/c she won't want to tell you,
could even get you on the same page...
and then, once faced with the amount of work she'd have to do,
without a guarantee of her ever being able to return to the marriage as she'd want it, seems improbable.
But it could happen. I have seen it in my family, twice. But you have to move on as if it won't.
Both cases in my family involved all 4 spouses moving on as if there was to be no recon. They all changed. I think that 3 of them went into T or some form of IC.
So 5 & 6 years later, the recon's happened and in one case a brief marriage had occurred in the meantime. (I don't know if A's were involved b/c I was too young to know).
ForGump, Since you know you have co-dependent issues, why not assume she's (in a nice way) on the Australian bush or had passed away, and so she cannot be a factor in your choices?
So you are to rely on just you, for now...is that okay?
If she had really had passed away and after years had gone by, you were all done grieving,
and you were on your own but you were happy,
what kinds of things would you be doing to GAL? Again, assume in this vision of the future, that you are happy.
Any New Hobbies? Any travel? Where? Would you make a job change, or do another move?
Would you play sports, or volunteer? What type? Would you go back to school or take some classes? Audition for something, or learn a new instrument?
etc?
So, Which of those things ^^ can you do, now?
But only a seismic change inside her
Amen
ForGump,
Re casual sex, I think some people get pleasure from that, but others do not. I'm in the latter category, as far as I know, but have really only had one sexual relationship my whole life. You know yourself better than anyone else, so trust yourself.
Interesting topic and quite relevant. Yes FG, there are people our age who are just not in good shape. For me it's not about weight, per se. It's about being attracted to the man AND feeling attractive to him.
I want a healthy sex life and that was a strength in my m, until the very late part. (Then h got very one sided. I liked the intimacy even if I did not think I was going to get my "cookies." But that was with my h and I loved him a lot.)
RE a one night stand -yes I know they happen. A heavy friend of mine is VERY in tuned with her sexuality and is very active. She mentioned that she has to "communicate A LOT" with a new partner.
That's the thing - I don't think it would be rewarding for me or most women. A man has to know the woman well enough to know what works for her, and what is uncomfortable. Some men don't want the feedback as it hurts their ego.
I doubt a guy who I'm not really dating, would know or care about what I want/need to enjoy the sex. Anyhow, food for thought.
I agree about the out of shape comment. I look younger than my age, but I worry about being as desirable as I was in the past. I want to lose 10+lbs I gained the past year.
It nags at me.
I'm Not sure if it's the medication I'm on, or depression or my banged up knee, but I'm having to consciously watch what I eat more than I have maybe ever and force myself to exercise - which I used to like.
Here's the thing, if I don't feel my partner is attracted to me enough, then I won't want sex as much.
As for people our age and what we/they want, I heard that for people over 50, the concern is that "they either want a nurse or a purse."
I've been asked out by a handful of men. Sometimes It surprised me as I missed that they were going to ask me out or that they had! If the guy did not come right out and ask me for a date, I just didn't get it. (That's a sign of being married a long time and turning the antenna off.)
Good news is that I've met 2 guys my age, whom I felt very attracted to. I'm relieved!
Re 50 year old dating and hook ups, I'm not the expert (have never used a dating app), but I have enough single friends in that age range that I know it does happen.
Re health, the sad truth is most Americans by their 40s and 50s aren't in great shape, so if that's important to you, maybe you need to become more socially involved with a coed group of people that are interested in fitness/fitness related activities.
Glad to hear you are happy! You continue to be a source of support and inspiration to me in this journey.
FG,
The weight thing is hard to express, b/c you don't want to sound shallow.
But I also don't want to have to take care of another person anytime soon, as this is the first time in my life I've only been responsible for ME. (Meaning, someone very overweight is likely to have health issues now or soon.)
Is it selfish of me to not want to "nurse" a man in the (near) future?
I was faithful to my h so I understand the meaning of vows. So yeah, I want a basically partner - but not a work out nut!
My was in great shape. I'll give him that.
He also expressed disappointment in me for gaining any weight, and commented on women who gained even small amounts. Working out and his weight became an obsession, and he literally would tell me how much weight he lost after a work out.
Anyhow, I'm sensitive about what we are "allowed" to want.
FG is it really about weight, per se, or whether we are attracted to the person? Please tell me It's not selfish of us to want to feel basic attraction to them.
I'm asking.
That's the thing - I don't think it would be rewarding for me or most women. A man has to know the woman well enough to know what works for her, and what is uncomfortable. Some men don't want the feedback as it hurts their ego.
I doubt a guy who I'm not really dating, would know or care about what I want/need to enjoy the sex. Anyhow, food for thought.
Don't ASSume! I've had great sex with men who were just casual dates. One good things about dating at this age - grown men have often acquired some skills! I worried too about sex with someone new, as my ex and I knew each other so well in that department. As it turned out, I needn't have worried! The first guy I dated after my ex left was super sexy. And most of my dates since have been great as well. AS for the casual thing - some people just get too attached, and then hurt, and shouldn't do it. But there can be advantages. Before my last boyfriend, I briefly dated a guy who was a classic love avoidant. He was, however, very honest and upfront about it, telling me right from the beginning that he didn't "do" relationships. Because all the cards were on the table, we had a few very enjoyable overnight dates (he's smart, a good cook, interested in book and movies and music) and then I moved on to what I THOUGHT was a more relationship-minded man.
We've stayed friends though, and I can't tell you how nice it is to know right now that, should I get lonely, there's a smart and very sexy friend who would be happy to have me come visit for a weekend. It's very comforting.
Btw, I expressed this very thought to him recently and here's his very sweet reply. As you can see, casual sex can still be thoughtful and kind:
Well thank you Precious. You always have a safe haven getaway (so to speak) an hour + north whenever you need. It is not lost on me the sincere & genuine concern you've have always shown me, especially in my hour of need, I love you dearly for that & I will always be here for you in whatever capacity I'm able & you require. Love you more than you'll ever know.
Anyhow, I'm sensitive about what we are "allowed" to want.
FG is it really about weight, per se, or whether we are attracted to the person? Please tell me It's not selfish of us to want to feel basic attraction to them.
I'm asking.
"Allowed" to want? By whom?
Of course there needs to be a healthy amount of physical attraction. And it's not selfish... we are humans, not robots.
I feel like I don't understand what you're trying to say....