Ginger I confess I don't know what spotted dick even is. Spotted Cow, however, is rather good beer brewed about 100 miles from my house. Does that count?
So, let's see if I can put words to a few things here.
1. I too have sort of gravitated to longer distance Rs post D. For me, I'm pretty sure it was because I didn't want a full on R and dating someone an hour, two or three away kept that from happening. It was my safety zone. the thing is, while 3 hours is very manageable, 10 is much harder. When we first met a year ago, she didn't want to try for anything more than "pen pals," in her words. Then, we had a great first date, she texted the next day and said how she can't wait to do it again. Then she pulled back. Being the good DBr I am, I didn't pursue and low and behold she came back around. That said, she is still more concerned about the distance than I am. I also think that marrying her college sweetheart, being together for 25 years and him dying of cancer also has her cautious about things. She has not dated much since his death four years ago. I would be totally fine with doing vacations, phone, perhaps getting together once a month, but sense she is not - at least not so far. It's hard to even figure as we've known each other for a year but we really only have gone out a few times. It's like a long distance friendship so far. As for me moving there. I'd say there is less than a 5% chance of that. Her state is so off my path. I've only been there once. My life is here. My career is here. My family is here. I just don't see ever moving there. I think she might move here or at least to Chicago which would be 90 minutes away. That's so in the future though and I don't think much about it.
2. While I've done and am fine with longer distance Rs, I swear that's all I seem to find lately. It started with V a year ago. Then I see this interesting lady in a photo with good friends of mine. I ask about her, my friend says "she'd be perfect for you" but then adds she recently moved about 15 hours away (by car). So getting farther away. She flies back "home" about once a month to see her dad and we've gone out but we are not a match. So then a few weeks ago I'm doing a gig with a band and notice this pretty, bubbly lady with a smile on her face watching me. She's clearly by herself. On break I make myself available and she walks right up to me for a conversation - during which she tells me she's about to return to her home in Florida!!! WTF? They keep getting farther away! How is it I seem to almost attract (or be attracted to) women who live so far away?
3. Ginger, once again you and I appear to be on the same page with meeting sooner than later with the online thing. I can't at all tell if I'll connect with someone until meeting in person. I much prefer meeting soon as I can tell very quickly if there is any chance. Some people are good with that, others not so much. Some online seem to draw it out and never want to meet. Honestly, that's what is a plus about eHarmony - the people are serious. I swear, so many on Match and the others don't know what they want themselves.
4. And Doodler, so I dodged the bullet skinning dipping with you but what happened to your date? Wasn't that supposed to have been this past Friday? So put your money where your mouth is dude, did you go? Fill us in.
As for me, I've someone taken the advice given here and just backed off it all for a while. Part of that is because I've gotten very busy with work and band gigs. I would explore things with V in a heartbeat. Of everyone I've met in recent years she clearly is at the top of this list. For whatever reason, we just can't get things going. We both seem to want to but life gets in the way and I can't help but feel the distance is making it all that much harder. I totally believe if I said "Hey do you want to go out next weekend?" the answer would be yes. I just can't do a 20 hour round trip for a date. I will keep trying, however.
Just saying the V in question isn't this one!
V
LOL - LOL - LOL Didn't even think of that but good point.
4. And Doodler, so I dodged the bullet skinning dipping with you but what happened to your date? Wasn't that supposed to have been this past Friday? So put your money where your mouth is dude, did you go? Fill us in.
DonH,
Yeah, I'm very sorry the skinny dipping thing didn't work out.
Regarding the date, no I didn't go on the date. But I'll have to tell my story...
I met the woman via Zoosk when I saw her picture she was wearing baseball cap like one that I'd recently lost. I messaged her asking, "What the hell are you doing with my hat?" The conversation that followed was great; we wrote a humorous collaborative story about how I lost the hat and how it eventually ended up on her head. That was a lot of fun! (It wasn't David Foster Wallace material, but it wasn't bad.) We stayed in contact daily and made a date for lunch last Friday.
Last Wednesday, I opened Zoosk to message her and when the application opened, it opened showing a profile of someone that looked a bit like the woman had been messaging. I looked through her pictures and there was one picture in common between the two profiles. So, she had two different profiles. That's not such a big deal, but the profile that I'd originally seen evidently had older pictures of her. The profile that I happened across is apparently recent; she's huge, like three times the woman she used to be. So, I know it's probably shallow of me, but that was real turn-off. I didn't know what to do, she seems very nice, and I don't mind overweight, but she if we went skinny dipping, it'd be like skinny dipping with Moby Dick.
Anyway, I didn't message her for over 24 hours. She finally messaged me saying that she had an opportunity to go to Atlanta so she had to cancel the date.
I don't know how I feel about the whole thing. I don't like being a weasel, on the other hand, I feel like she wasn't quite honest.
I don't know how I feel about the whole thing. I don't like being a weasel, on the other hand, I feel like she wasn't quite honest.
Sounds like real life then. Haven't heard from you for a while doodler! I've been eating lots of cookies but still seem to be losing weight.
Hey AndrewP!
I've been on this forum trying to stir-up trouble. I've hijacked DonH's thread and I've asked many of the women, as well as DonH, to go skinny dipping with me. Everyone has politely turned me down. But, I think Vanilla is giving it some thought; she apparently wants to wait for warmer weather. I'd ask if you want to go skinny dipping with me, but I don't think I can take any more rejection right now.
DonH,
I have you beat - Spotted Cow in the fridge, and brewed less than 25 miles from my doorstep. Ahh, the joys of Wisconsin...
DonH and trumpet,
Maybe Spotted Cow and spotted dick would go well together. You could call the combination Spotted Cow Dick.
Hey doodler, when a woman presents herself one way and then you find out she's another (whether it's duplicate profiles or in person)...run don't walk! I find that people show you who they are really fast in online dating and the trick is to accept it and move on...without guilting yourself! Someone once told me on here "when a woman tells you she's mean, believe her" I didn't and paid for it. Did you get the cap back at least?
Hey doodler, when a woman presents herself one way and then you find out she's another (whether it's duplicate profiles or in person)...run don't walk! I find that people show you who they are really fast in online dating and the trick is to accept it and move on...without guilting yourself! Someone once told me on here "when a woman tells you she's mean, believe her" I didn't and paid for it. Did you get the cap back at least?
whatisis,
Yep, I totally agree with you - run doodler run! Funny thing about the cap; in our conversations she'd hinted that she wanted a specific color cap (team colors). I was going to bring her a new cap on our first date. I'm glad I didn't buy a cap before I found the second profile.
funny enough, I really thought about the online deceit thing.
My natural hair is super curly. Most of my pics have my hair blown out straight. I make sure I include curly hair pic so I don't "deceive" anyone. I always include a full body pic.
As far as the 2 profiles..... do they both have activity? I'm pretty sure I have another Eharmony profile off in cyber space, but I signed this one up with another email address, because I have no idea what my login info was for the other one. So people may be coming across 2 profiles, I dunno. I do look the same though, from 5 years ago. Atleast I like to believe that.,
Ginger,
My xW had super curly hair. When it was long it was always all over the place. I loved her hair; all wild and curly. She hated her hair and would often have it cut very short. There's no moral to the story other than doodler is turned on by messy curly hair.
As far as profiles go, the fact that she had two profiles didn't really bother me. And, I think you have to put your best foot forward on the profiles, but you don't want to go so far as to be completely misleading.
My issue is that I'm in good shape, and for better or worse, extremely "fluffy" women turn me off. Apparently not all men feel that way, but I do and I'm sorry if that's shallow of me. When I found the second profile of the woman, it was clear that she was not my type; not just a little bit not my type, but really not my type. Again, that may be shallow of me, but that's how it is and I don't think it's going to change.
doodler - Don't look at it as being shallow. Just because you are fishing in the pond doesn't mean you can't practice catch and release until you get your whopper.
I have messy long curly hair;)
I completely agree with you. You are attracted to what you attracted to. And it is a matter of lifestyle.
My first online date ever he had no body shots. Well, he was about 400lbs. He broke out into a sweat and turned white as a ghost out of no where at dinner. I had to ask him if he was ok, he looked that bad. He told me he never sees a doctor.......
I work out. I like to be active. Am I thin? No. I am strong and curvy. But the point is, I need someone who could at least keep up on a little hike or a walk on a beach, and not have a heart attack during dinner.
Not shallow at all.
I'm all about dad bod. A little belly that shows they still enjoy beer and wings, and a little bit of bicep that shows they attempt to work out:)
doodler - Don't look at it as being shallow. Just because you are fishing in the pond doesn't mean you can't practice catch and release until you get your whopper.
AndrewP,
You're an awesome wordsmith! That was funny.
I have messy long curly hair;)
Ginger,
You're going to kill me one day.
I have a friend who went out with this guy and when she met him she discovered that he was unemployed, lived in his Mom's basement and only had one leg. He failed to mention any of this previous to meeting...must have slipped his mind lol.
Oh you think so trumpet? I've actually met and hung out with the owner multiple times - liberal that she otherwise is. Even helped in tapping the cerimonial first keg. And I see they just changed the label colors.
As for doodler, yeah, now that's the online dating that I know - lies and multiple profiles. I should have figured as much when you first said you already had a date. I may be going through the dry spell of my life but I have not at all lowered my standards or settled - not that you have, I'm just commenting on me.
Time to buy my plane ticket to go find my wing woman, Ginger.
DonH,
Well, thanks to Vanilla's advice, I have another date set for Sunday afternoon (late lunch). And, of course, it's with a different woman. Hopefully the outcome will be better.
Past due for an update. It's been a really rough week. I am really struggling but not sure I'll be able to explain why - it's pretty complicated to the point I even am not positive why. The sum total is sort of like life is passing by while I watch. I am participating but it still in some ways feels like going to an amusement park while sedated. Yeah I'm there, yeah it's fun but it's not the full expierence. Does that make any sense?
Let me try harder, okay on the plus side I celebrated my 7 year sobriety date free from opiates on the 2nd. While that's pretty cool, I totally Forgot until two days later. Not that I'd "celebrate" but still. I've taken a total break from trying to date. Not sure what that's accomplishing. Then I see both Doodler and Ginger having success - which I'm very happy for them, I really am, but then also I'm like seriously? WTF was or am I doing wrong? 10 years later and still? Really?
Then I have a friend I've gotten somewhat close to who has 4 months of opiate sobriety - which for her is an accomplishment. She is married to a friend of mine who has not been the best husband but has put up with a lot in the past three years. So with only four months in, she tells me she has decided to seek a D from her husband - never mind she knows not to make a life decision this soon into sobriety. But that's not all, as she has started an EA/PA with another addict she met in AA, oh but there is more in that her female sponsor had dated him as well! It's the crazy stuff that WW do to the guys here. Not only is this going to effect her family which includes a D8 and S11 but for sure will risk relapse. It's the worst things she can do. I don't think I can stand by her anymore.
Then add to that my work situation is really getting to me. This is very involved and complicated but trust me, it's getting to me. A discussion with the newly hired executive director nearly had me quit. While I am Semi- retired at 53, I can't fully retire. Then add I have a drug conviction from 7 years ago for illegally obtaining opiates and I have to be carefull as some employers don't see any difference in a "crime" due to a medical addiction and a bank robber.
Add them all up and I spent several days on the couch doing nothing. Thankfully I have a band trip this weekend out to Cleveland. I'll be seeing and staying with friends I've not seen for over a year so I hope it's fun. I perform 4 hours but the other 70 will be like a regular weekend getaway - with two married guys and one who met his latest GF on Father's Day.
All I can keep thinking is, damn I wish I had a significant other to talk to. Then again, I've wanted to reach out to V as we never did connect after Doodlers threat (though I did try). I should contact several other friends. I just have no ambition. I'm also wonder how/if taking a break from dating is doing me any good? Or have I just not had a date since July?
While I'm not concerned yet, it is starting to feel a little like the start of depression I had 9 years ago. That really sucked and I don't want that again. I know I need to GAL, I'm just struggling to make it happen. I just keep thinking, crap, I've wasted the last 10 years. I know that's not the truth. I know there would just be different highs and lows. I also know clearly why all those surveys report that people who are married or in an R are happier than those who are single or divorced. I would totally check that box. I so want my life back.
With that I am going to do my best to snap out if it this weekend. Hopefully I'll report I have when I return on Monday.
Hi Don!
I haven't been on this site in awhile. Your posting touched me. Yes, it should be easier. Sure isn't. I fight depression, too. You need to always remember that depression comes and goes. And yes, work on the GAL!
I sure hope you feel better!
Wendy
Don, I'm sorry you are feeling low. When multiple areas of our life don't quite as we hoped it could kick our butts.
You did not waste the last 10 years of your life! You got clean, you bettered yourself and made a life for yourself! It's not years "wasted" just because we are single. Else I wasted the 8 years of my life. And I don't feel I did.
Hey buddy, I get wanting a significant other to talk to. If I'm going to believe my day is going to come, so are you.
I hope you had a good weekend in Cleveland!!!
Don,
I'm sorry you're feeling badly. I've been there many times myself, and I know that simple statements like, "be positive" don't do anything to help and seem to actually exacerbate the problem.
The one thing that really helped me during my divorce was that I always had some future project in mind (generally a home improvement project) and I always tried to give it a special artistic twist that would make it different than the ordinary. That kept my mind actively engaged all the time (even when I was at work). It became an obsession, and every day, I would work on the project until I was exhausted. I wouldn't sit on the couch until I was so exhausted that I couldn't stand up any longer. I was usually sweaty, stinky and dirty, but I was happy.
I really think that getting up and moving around, even when you don't want to, is key to remaining engaged.
Congrats on the sobriety Don.
Doing great sweetheart.
Let it unfold in time, as I once said to darling Greengrass, it only takes one gorgeous adorable person and you are up and running.
Only one.
Yes I know it's finding her, and you will.
Sending you rainbows.
V
Hey Don, congrats on the sobriety! I'm a recovered alcoholic and know what an accomplishment it is to be straight. I haven't touched a drop in over 30 years. My younger brother just went through the same rehab centre I did...it was kind of weird being back there visiting him every Sunday. I guess addiction is our family bonding exercise lol. Anyway, dating is tough. Online can be kind of brutal. As you've said elsewhere, people think 'cuz it's online that it's not the same as in person. I find that in real life, you meet somebody, it goes south, you lick your wounds and a few months later try again. In online it's coming at you from all directions. You're dealing with multiple people sometimes and it's difficult. I'm pretty sensitive and believe in treating people the way I want to be treated so I acknowledge people and if I don't want to continue I give them the courtesy of letting them know nicely. It would be easier just to ghost people but I can't do that to others...I know I hate it when it happens to me. Anyway, I've had one relationship in over 8 years of being apart and it last about 15 months, otherwise it's just me and my turtle. What has been a saving grace for me is my church ( I know, here he goes lol). I actually converted to my denomination through my last relationship...I didn't keep the girl but I kept the faith
I'm very involved with the activities in my church and hang out with my church friends a lot. I feel like I'm part of a family. If I miss church due to illness I have 9 or 10 people contacting me to see if I'm Ok. That's huge for me...I've never felt so loved in a group like this before...and no, we're not a cult lol. Of course, not all churches operate this way but I am thankful that I've found one that does. Sabbath day is the highlight of my week and I look forward to it! Anyway, I don't know your faith background but I found it extremely helpful to connect and get involved. So, hang in there...this too shall pass
While I've been shooting my mouth off over all sorts of other threads here, I've not updated mine in several weeks. I started to - twice actually - but never got far. Hopefully the third time's the charm.
Thanks for all of the comments! Oddly enough I don't think all that much about the addiction past - not that I'm "cured" or anything (there is no cure)just that it's well managed, including with some medication, and I'm doing very well there and hope to for the rest of my life. Still, I do appreciate the comments and compliments.
So my last major post was about 2.5 weeks ago prior to a weekend trip. The weekend was awesome! I had so much fun seeing and staying with some friends I've not seen for over a year. My stress and anxiety were nowhere to be found. I felt totally myself. Then I came back home... Hmmmmmmmm, perhaps that's a sign.
Clearly GAL helps and works - and I've already known that. My struggle is doing it. Nearly without fail every time I'm hesitant of doing something or have to force myself, once I go I'm so glad I did and always think, "I need to do this more." Part of the problem is lack of opportunity. I try, I call, I eamil, but people have lives and are often busy. Plus, most of my friends have spouses and families. The other stumbling block is my schedule. I'll sometimes go a long streak - just had one - where I'm busy every weekend with band gigs. I then lose routine touch with friends until I get to a patch, like now, where I've got open weekends again. It then just comes down to if they are open or not.
At least I'm not feeling that impending depression thing that I was fearing, but I clearly still feel stuck and I've been trying to do a lot of thinking and reading about it. Where I keep coming back to is it's as if I'm returning back to my earlier years. When I was in high school and college I rarely had a GF. I had a lot of friends who were girls, I had girls I was interested in but was often friend zoned. It wasn't really until I was about 27 or 28 where I became "me" or at least the me I wanted to be and enjoyed the most. I don't know how to explain how it changed or even what all changed but I was just much more confident, dated a lot and never thought about any of it - I just lived. That went on right through meeting ExW and honestly up to the day that the bomb was dropped on me. Since then, it's been a regretion back to nearly feeling like the guy I was in high school and college. How did this happen? How did I lose my confidence? I'm still happy on balance, I certainly am sad less, upset less, struggle less than I did when I was married but I also seem to enjoy life less. I don't have the big downs, the fights, the worry, the stress of a R and family but I don't have the good things that come with that either.
I've dabbled back OLD but other than exchanging some emails that's about it. Had an interesting experience this past weekend although I have no clue what went on. Was with the same band Friday and Saturday at a new German Beer Hall type place. I've seen this lady before but don't know her or the friends she's often with. They were in on Friday and I got the sense she was interested. That was slightly confirmed on Saturday when she came back with just one other friend. So I thought I'd follow what I thought was her lead. Well either I did something that turned her off or she was never interested in the first place as it went nowhere. Wash, rinse, repeat - back to the high school rut.
Have an open weekend other than Sunday and hope to push myself to do something. I've been wanting to following up with V (the women I've dated a few times over the past year who lives several states away) but just don't have the ambition. Have a list of a half dozen others I really should and want to reach out to. I keep thinking I'll do it tomorrow. I need to just DO IT. I know this. It's just hard to do sometimes.
Regardless, I am anticipating a fun, fun time over the extended Thanksgiving weekend. I'll again be out of state and with many friends - combined with some music performance things including being in a band of very high quality players for a show - need to bone up on my site reading skills - something I also have not done much of since high school.
I don't know that I've done anything other than ramble but at least it's an update. It's been a long 10 years where very clearly, this used to be way easier and a whole lot more fun!
Don,
Does your band do the Trent Reznor/Nine Inch Nails stuff?
Don,
Oh well, continuing on my Nine Inch Nails riff; I don't like country music, and I've never been a Johnny Cash fan, but I love his rendition of "Hurt." I think it's better than the NIN version. And, I really respect the artistic risk that Johnny Cash took when he moved beyond his original genre.
I think the Linkin Park song "What I've Done" would make a good rendition song for a more traditional bad. It's an eerie song and I think it has lots of potential for a remake, but I'm not a musician, so what do I know...
It gets a bit different on the other side of the stage. Now, I'm not like some super-star or something but do a fair share of larger things complete with "green room", back stage "security", sounds companies, etc. That said I also do a fair share of random bars with 50 to 200 people hanging out, corporate events where we somewhat blend into the background, some table to table or expo hall or what have you "strolling" things - that's usually on upright string bass rather than sax which is what I do mainly. I also play a pretty decent variety of styles. I don't think I've done Nine Inch Nails all though I have to tell you, many of these I know more by tempo/style and what key it's in - ie, "that slow ballad in F" LOL. One of the bands I do a lot with does a few Johnny Cash tunes.
Anyhow, what I'm trying to get at here is after being in this industry since I was 15, having done, I'm guessing at least 2,500 "gigs" in my lifetime perhaps over 3,000? it really does become a "job" of sorts. Now that said, it's also one of my chief social outlets as how many jobs do you get to drink on the job, socialize, etc.? It is sort of the ultimate in combining "work" with "fun."
You would think I'd meet more people this way, and honestly I do. Again, like so many things in my life, I used to meet many of those women I dated through bands. But again like the rest, not as much these days although it was on a band road trip that I met V - which, BTW, I left her another message and shot her a text earlier this week with no response. Not sure what's up with that as it's not like her. But, there you go.
I continue to be in and out of a funk. I am having to push myself to stay busy and do things. I've got a slow weekend here - only one gig at a bar Sunday evening. Meeting a female friend for dinner and drinks on Saturday. She's about 10 years younger than me, never married, a lot of fun, but we've not taken things anywhere even though it's sort of like a date when we go out - well a date without much physical contact anyhow - which LOL is how some of my other dates go, so what's the difference? She has not had a BF in several years, just like me with a GF. I need to contact a few other friends as well and catch up. Then I'm off back to Cleveland again for the Thanksgiving holiday for again fun with some music thrown in - including something I rarely get to do, be part of a show band for an awards event. I've not sight read music in a while but that's exactly what I'll do when I get to rehearsal on Friday. I'll meet the other musicians, many of which I know, some of which I've never performed with, they will throw the music at us for the various components of the show and we'll play it. It's fun to have it all come together in 24 hours and then we'll perform it in front of nearly 1,000 people on Saturday. I'm going out there with the husband, very soon to be ex-husband, of the woman I spoke about a few weeks ago. Talk about a crazy story - they were separated three years then got back together and have been since February 2014. Rather quickly this time they have split again only they are on a very fast track to D. He's my age, she just turned 40. Wild. He is an awesome wingman, however, so....
And that's my life for the next week or so.
I have been thinking about readiness for R following my EE course and putting into place my notes from that course.
EE is the Essential Experience course much talked about when I first came to the board and I set as a goal my desire to attend that course. I want shift.
You know I like scoring stuff?
If you read my threads you will see I do score, for instance Sandi 37 "rules" out of 10. To start with every week then every month.
And I scored the abuse on the abuse threads.
I have my own thriving scoring and goals out of 10.
So what about readiness to R?
I have identified what I think are 10 key R communication factors which I am sharing with you. You can ignore if you want, rubbish V it's ok.
Readiness to R and measuring partner in R (when attaching)
1. I know where I am and know who I am. I have identified my strengths and weakness and I have good boundaries in place. I am a constant work in progress but in general I am balanced. I like me. My partner has good boundaries.
2. I have identified generally what I want in a partner. I know which of the items are absolute deal breakers for me. One of those is that my partner must be authentic and another that my partner is loving. Health is more important than looks. I have a checklist which gets modified and changed.
3. I am free to be with a partner. This means unattached and I have the time to give to an R. My previous R is done. I am not overburden with other commitments or hobbies. Space and time are available to share with another. My partner is free with time to build an R with me, I will not be low on priority as the R develops.
4. I am physically well,a good weight and I take care of me. I choose clothes that suit me, I have good grooming and eat well. I have my act together with great personal care. If I am unwell or stressed, then extreme self care applies. I give myself space to let loose and I take breaks. My partner is healthy and glowing.
I am free of addictions, compulsions and obsessions together with the thoughts of them. My partner is free of this too.
5. I meditate and apply mindfulness, I am centred and calm when things happen in my life. I can get through most trials and use my resources. My partner has resilience and spirituality with good values.
6. I can be playful and I have friends, hobbies and things which have great meaning in my life. My friends are appropriate caring. I let go of friends who cease to be good for me. I have put right where I have damaged R with friends and past loves. My partner also has a great support structure of their own.
7. I have resolved my childhood issues and am working on the best relationships with family of origin. Where bridges have to be mended I have worked to do this. I have let go of family R where that is appropriate. I successfully completed parent or parallel parent my children, even if they are adults. I seek a partner who is also on this path.
8. I have build the skills I need to be in an R. I understand validation, abuse and listening. My heart is open and where I need to I have counselling and I continue to build on these skills. Seeing this as essential for all my life. I know how to approach someone I am attracted to, and I know how the stages of an R work. I am prepared to move slowly and to let go if that isuits appropriate. I am looking for my best match not just the first one. My partner is growing in these values and skills.
9. I can live alone without being lonely. I enjoy my own company and would like but do not need another to fulfil me. My life's path is clear to me and I pursue that which is important. I am flexible and alive. My dependants have a high priority in my life. My partner is in a good place too.
10. I am financially sound, my legal sh1t is finished. I know where I stand and am building forwards. I am independent and have ensured that if my ex is partly providing that I have insurance cover. I have appropriate transport and assets. I live within my means and I apply resources to my wellbeing and that of my children. I have wills and protection. I build my own future. My partner is sound financially.
Well those are my thoughts.
V
That's a great list V!! Xx
I knew I was way past due for an update - didn't know it had been nearly a month and a half! Although I have been posting elsewhere around the board so it's not like I've not commented or updated here and there about my life. Anyhow, the problem now is there will be so much to update... It's going to be a long one. I'll try to keep it as brief as I can.
So I have tried to employ some of the suggestions made here. To that end I backed off from online. I've also tried to change my outlook and attitude - being more playful and a bit more "Doodler." I have most certainly seen some movement and changes although nothing earth shattering and I can't say it's due to anything I'm doing. I much more think it's just the natural ebb and flow of life.
So... here's where I'm at. When I last posted here I was into a bit of a funk and was heading out of state for Thanksgiving. I had a GREAT time and I mean GREAT. It was so much fun on multiple fronts (music performance, seeing old friends, meeting new) and I met several new people and connected more with someone I previously knew. Clearly GAL works - at least for me. My challenge is setting up the GAL activities. This one was actually my doing and I am good at it but don't do it often these days. Met a typical online dater - self professed by her (of course from a different state than me). She's the daughter of an older musician friend of my's new wife. He's widowed and remarried rather quickly after his wife's sudden death. Anyhow, if this daughter is typical of the type of women I'm meeting online (but never meeting in person) it's no wonder and I'm fine with not meeting them. Not to say she was not nice, fun, pretty good looking, just very much like the WW or WAW we talk about here - at least I thought so.
Then on the last night, I connected and yes made out (no sex though) with someone I've known for a while, just not well. Remember how I've got them all over the USA but not here near me? There is Arkansas, Virginia, and now add Canada to that. She very much pursued me - which is often what it takes for me. We've been in touch very regularly although, here we go... I'm very turned off by her CONSTANTLY being there. Good lesson here for all of us. If I text, she responds in seconds - no matter what time of day. If I don't respond, she keeps texting. If I so much as pick up my phone and turn it on, evidently she can tell as she's there in minutes. HUGE TURN OFF. I was attracted to her personality and intelligence, less so her looks, but I'm proud of myself on that actually. I've always had to have personality and intelligence over looks - although it is a package. So I don't think this is me being "love avoident" near as much as she's just not for me as I get to know her more. Yet, I want someone to travel with, do things with, etc. She invited me to go somewhere for her birthday but I just can't. She seems like head over heals for me and I just don't feel it and again I have to just admit, it's a turn off for someone to be that into me after one weekend together, but much more so clingy. It's the lack of space, the pursing, the constant, I don't know, pursuit? Folks, these DB principles work in other than DB situations. It's the same in dating.
Then, I don't know if the moons have just aligned or what but I've been connecting with ladies in a casual way all over the place. Well perhaps not all over the place but way more than usual for me. Is it something I'm doing different? I don't know. I'm in a store, see someone interesting, end up in check out line together and she starts talking to me. At a restaurant with my mom and dad, single women comes in to purchase a gift certificate, I smile at her and said something and she totally has a conversation with me while we all waited and makes a point of saying goodbye and wishing me a Merry Christmas on her way out. Thought I saw a wedding ring though?
Then, there is this... Two years ago on Christmas eve, again with my mom and dad at church, this very pretty, but perhaps a bit too young for me single lady comes in. Of course the church is packed and she needs a seat. She ended up right in front of me and would you not know it, not two minutes later a nice but 85+ year old woman gets seated next to me. I joked after with my friends how bad my luck is with the hot blonde getting seated ahead of me and the grandma next to me. So anyhow, I got her name when she wrote it on the communion card - very unique name. Talk about cyber stalking LOL it took me less than a minute to find her on Facebook. I sent her a short message "You sat one pew too far forward in church - just sayin. Hope you have a very Merry Christmas." I figured that was safe to do. Again, that was two years ago. I never heard anything. So one week before Christmas this year - yes two years later, what do you think I got? "I literally just saw this now! Was this the church in [my town]? Hope you are well." Now because FB previously did not deliver messages unless you were friends, heck they used to charge $1 to send a message to non-friends for a while, now changed the rules again, I'm sure that's part of why she never saw it before and just found it. Yet she replied two years later. We've been texting a bit but not a lot. She does want to meet for coffee or a drink after the NY. She's a bit young for me. I'm 53 and she just turned 42 or 43, so not too bad. Divorced 4 or 5 years with no kids. So we'll see. We've both kept things pretty light although she although she responds quickly if I message her - we've just not talked a lot. I figured I'd save it for in person if that happens - esepically since she's not been overly talkative on text.
So that is the fastest update I can provide. Lessons learned/re-learned: GAL really does work for making ME feel better. I just need to push myself to do it. Sometimes trying less gets you more. Smile, start conversations, etc. Be a little bit (just a little bit) more like Doodler. And perhaps most of all, I have no control over it. Just as I had a rather long dry spell, things will heat up after a while. It's not on my time table.
Oh, and my favorite lady, the widow from Arkansas is still in the picture. We've been talking and texting more again. She's on vacation with her kids right now. I am for sure planning two trips next year and will casually invite her to be part of either of them and see where it goes. Thing is, among our discussions in the past month, we both very clearly have no intention of moving. Other than that, she would still be at the top of my list.
Hope everyone had a wonderful Christmas and is looking forward to the new year. I know I'm in a different place than most people here on this board (other than the Surviving section) so it's a rough time of the year for many. At least if you somehow are still on a roller coaster, it's the kiddie coaster at this point - the ups and downs are very minor when compared.
Don, looking at you making out with the chicks!
You are exuding a confidence and an approachableness and that's attracting the women to you. You are feeling good, and they know it. I love it!
As for too young? 10 years younger is not too young at all. I have been dating men with a bigger age gap since the D and it has to do with where you are in life, not what the number is.
And lets address the texting all the time. It's a strange way we communicate this modern day in age. it is really confusing. We know when we text we can instantly reply. I have a hard time not instantly replying because it's right there in front of me and it's easy to do. But I don't want to be available all the time like that. And yes, there are things that goes through ones head when there isn't a reply. We have to play a guessing game. It's annoying. I kind of miss the day of the phone call. Someone calls, they pick up the phone, have the conversation, and it is over until the next time. ANd it generally happens once a day. With the capability of being in constant contact, that's what is expected these days. ANd it is annoying. I would hesitate to even call it pursing. It's just the way it's done these days.
So, you have options. And you will have more options. Enjoy it all with an open mind and no expectations.
Ginger1,
I agree on the texting.
I was avoidant of cell phones, even though I needed one for work, and I'm a techie. Just wanted freedom.
Now, if I don't get a text from my date, after an hour I start to wonder. We BOTH have lives, and I want her to have her life without me, and vise versa. But with texting comes expectations the speed of communications. Life would better if we could all just slow down...
As Don would probably agree, communicating via pressed lips is a lot better than text.
Don - check fb.
Looks like I'm way past due for an update again. Time just seems to fly by. For it seems like ever, I've always had a very busy start to the year with three separate events that I'm involved in. It's great for GAL but makes it hard to keep up with other things. The last of the three happened this weekend in a suburb of Chicago.
Feeling a bit down today after a bunch of punches in the gut - or at least that's sort of how it feels sometimes. I also saw the down-side of what I think I want again with other couples which always give me both a bit of clarity and some pause. Read on for details on what I'm talking about. Once again, this post is pretty long. I hope you'll take the time to read it all, but if nothing else, go to the ////// lines below to skip over the individual gut punch details.
So... the punches in the gut... Where do I start? My favorite woman to date lives about 10 hours away (by car) and I totally get that's not workable. Still, I'd love to date her more, but for the most part, she's not wanting to even try the long distance thing. Shot her a text as I was heading to Chicago as that's where we've often met as she comes for work every several months. The last time we talked as after Christmas, and it's normal for us to go several weeks or even a month. Again, it's not an ongoing R. Didn't hear back, which is not typical of her so I checked, which is when she said she's started seeing someone and didn't think it would be a good idea to date someone else - or me. Really hit me harder than I thought - at least for a little while. I totally know it would be super hard with the distance but even so, some other guy now will get what at least I think I want. Punch 1.
Number two was no real huge deal as someone I met over Thanksgiving showed up at the event this weekend with her mom and step-dad (seems odd saying that at this age). I partly wondered if it was because she knew I'd be there? Again, long distance this time about 4 or 5 hours by car. Saw her a bit on Friday but as I'm sort of working (band gig thing) was not able to spend a huge amount of time right away. No big deal I figured, as we would both be there for several days. Well, she never came back Friday night and near halfway through Saturday I sent her a text asking her where she was hiding. She went home! I'm like really? I get some "not a good prospect" vibes from her anyhow so no real huge deal but I'd certainly have liked to spend some time with her. Perhaps she will work on her issues - Half a punch on this one.
Punch 3 was couples, couples, couples EVERYWHERE! And many with new girlfriends. Again really? One guy had a super awesome wife. He's a great guy too. She was very pretty, fit, a long distance runner, very smart, very nice and died suddenly of a brain aneurysm that burst. That was 2, perhaps 3 years ago, but I really think 2. I've seen this guy multiple times since (again he does not live in my state) and so imagine the somewhat surprise when he arrives with a girlfriend. If I had to guess, she's way more into him than he is into her and she is nowhere near what his wife was, seemed at least 10 years younger too, but certainly seemed friendly and nice enough. Life goes on and in this case I'm very happy for him as were others. But... 2 years widowed and finds someone at least worthy of a weekend getaway as I went back to my hotel room with a big king size bed, of course, by myself. Gut Punch 3.
There were others as well, including our drummer, who had a really nice girlfriend last year but for whatever reason, that didn't work out. He brought his new GF of about two months. It seemed nearly everyone, but me... You get the point.
So I figured, I need to perhaps cast a wider net, not be as picky. Drummer's latest GF brought a friend, who seemed interested in me and flirty. Not really my type, quite a bit younger, but nice enough and I figured at least fun enough to hang out with as we checked out some of the room parties following the end of music. She was less interested after I showed some interest. Really, I'm now getting shot down by... Better not say it as I'll likely get flamed but wow, I can't even connect (and I don't me sexually) with someone that doesn't even... Again you get it.
I still had a very good time, played some great music, saw at least 50 people/friends that I only get to see a half dozen times a year. Got home Sunday, really tired, watched the Super Bowl while getting caught up on email, texts, Facebook, etc. (since that Packers were not in it, I only had half interest anyhow) Which is where I see yet another past women I dated and her new boyfriend. This is the one I talked about a while ago who's son started college this past year. I talked with her friend that set us up a few weeks ago and she said she's not heard from her at all lately either. Guess we know why. Gut punch, what is it now 5?
And that was just one weekend. Not sure if I posted about the woman I met in church and messaged? She got the message two years later, seemed flattered and suggested we meet. I thought, yeah, that's fine. We both decided it would be easier after Christmas as we were both busy with the holidays. I check in after Christmas for her to tell me she "met someone" at a Christmas party and didn't think we should meet after all. I call BS on "meeting someone" - I think it was just her excuse. She said we could still meet for a drink as friends - which is honestly all I was going to do anyhow, Still, it's not happened, and it's now February. Not sure if I'll try again or not.
Then there is the event I did two weeks ago. Again, saw perhaps a hundred people I know (it's a very big event of 5 days). Saw someone I've not seen for a long time. We've known each other for nearly 25 years, flirted but never dated. She always gives THE BEST hugs and I tell her that too. She was very excited to see me, gave me a GREAT hug and we caught up - including her getting married. Okay, so much for any thought there. Still great to see her though.
I also met someone who I would have put down a $1,000 bet that she was flirting with me. Very smart, great conversation, seemed fun. I would have asked her to go to dinner with the group of NINE I went with - four couples and me of course - but I could not find her anywhere. We come back after dinner to go to the evening dance. This is where I meet a guy that's now on the fire department I was on for near 25 years. My friends had told me about him at dinner and how his wife died of cancer a few years ago. I'm sure you already know what I'm about to say. Yep, he shows up with a girl that is TOTALLY my type - at least looks wise and I mean TOTALLY. They seemed to have zero chemistry. I could have thought they were brother and sister - honestly. She seemed to be interested in him but he's very shy and would not touch her - at least not in public. I'm never the kind of guy to hit on someone else's date, but c'mon. Plus, I thought there might be promise with the lady flirting with me. Not totally my type looks wise and I did wonder a little bit about her. I messaged several friends including Ginger, who asked me if it was a problem because "she looked her age?" Wow, Ginger is exactly what I need to help me see things more clearly and I really thank her for it. Not sure if that's what it was, but it helped me to decide I'm going to ask her out. So I call, we have a GREAT conversation although she was less flirty on the phone and it was mostly "business" about the event. My primary reason for wanting to ask her out without knowing her better is very often I won't see someone for another year until this event happens again. It's not like I thought I'd see her in a few weeks or something. So I asked her out, she was flattered and very nice about telling me she's already dating someone and doesn't want to date more than one person even though they are not in a full R. She also said she has a "dear friend" - not a boyfriend but a dear friend. Finally, she said we could still go to dinner and wants to do that. To be honest, I'm nearly positive that's because it's a girlfriend, and not a boyfriend. The signs were there all along, I just figured, again, I need to broaden who I consider. Perhaps that's a wider net that I should cast. LOL So in other words, that's what it's come to, I think lesbians and hitting on me and then ask them out!
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
I will stop there as I'm sure many of you have stopped reading. For those still going, how in the hell can this not at least be partly me? It just has to be. It's as much them and life in general but I have to be doing things wrong. How is it I rarely get or want a second date? Hell, it's hard enough to get the first date! What is it about what I'm doing or about me? Is the fact that I'm not sure what I want myself showing through? I'm attempting to connect with a very wide range of women here - younger, older, tall, short, professional, blue collar, I mean I'm giving near everyone at least a shot. Even when they appear interested, they are gone as fast as they arrived - like the one who came this weekend and then left, the girl from church who seems excited to meet me, until I say yes, then doesn't want to. The lady who says she wants to go out again, but then ghosts me then gets a boyfriend. On-line was the same deal - actually worse. I've certainly met more women in person than online.
I've now been divorced for over 10 years and have not had what most would call a GF for about 3.5 years. On the other side of the coin, I also saw the down side of all of this. Couples arguing, wives bitching about their husbands drinking too much or staying out too late in room parties. One guy, who I never in a million years would think could get a GF (he's my age, never married, never lived with anyone, only had like 1 or 2 GF in his life) and here he is with a GF for over 6 months. Well... She's still MARRIED, with her husband dying of cancer, as she makes out with a keyboard player from one of the bands with this "BF" in the other room. Yeah, I want zero part of any of that so it explains what the real truth is.
All that said, down sides and all, there is just no way I cannot be playing some role in all of this. I have to be. I just don't know what I'm doing wrong so how can I change it? To make things worse, I think I'm ready to at least have an actual GF. But will I want it if and when it even happens? That really feels like a 50/50 proposition right now. Still, what I have [censored]. For the most part I just roll with all the punchs and keep going but it's very hard to do after getting punched in the gut time after time after time.
Don, have you made a list of what you want a relationship to look like? Not just her looks, age, etc., but how you would spend your time together, how you would fight, how you would make up? What would a great relationship look like to you?
I have not, partly because I've not thought that far ahead. It's sort of like living in my parents house and thinking about how I'd decerate my own home, how I'd fix things that broke, how I'd mow the lawn, etc. - rather than about what kind of house I could afford, what city I may want to live in, how large I'd like the house to be (or his small) etc.
That said, I could rather easily create a decent starter list like you are talking about. I know very well what I want, or at least what I believe I want and perhaps more importantly don't want.I think that is in part why I reject or don't peruse many of the women I encounter as they dont appear to meet much of what would be on that list.
I'm guessing that really the list is in my head in great part. I'm happy to write it out on here if it will help. Tell me, what would I do with it if I wrote it out? I'm not sure what you're driving at but would love to hear.
I could totally supply the blue prints for my perfect women. I just need someone to build her, or just find her and deliver her to my door. I'd really love that!
You can't look for "the perfect woman" and "a great relationship" at the same time. Looking for "the perfect woman" leaves YOU out of the equation. It just measures up a woman according to a set of checkboxes without taking into account what she might want from a relationship. It doesn't take into account how you contribute to the relationship either. If you want walks on the beach and she wants to go antique shopping in Paris (extreme example) then even if you check every one of her boxes and she checks every one of yours, then it's not going to work. Casting a wider net without knowing what you want and what you bring to the relationship won't get you any different results.
I can't find it right this minute but I'll try to dig up my old list in the next day or two to show you what I mean. I didn't know in the first couple of dates if My Guy fit the bill, but I did know within about three months. I do remember I put a geographic distance limitation on it, because I didnt' think I could learn much from my first post-marriage relationship if it was long distance; I did have a minimum height expectation on it (My Guy misses it by one inch, so it was a "nice to have" not a "have to have")' and the rest of it was things like "he wants to get out and do more than see a movie" or "he holds my hand."
There is something about the way you write about the women you're interested in that makes it sound like a constant audition for your attention, rather than a search for a partner. I also rarely hear about you showing interest in local women, so I wonder about that.
Is that enough for a start?
Don, may bell completely nailed it! Listen to this advice!
It made me realize I do not even look for a ""person" anymore. I look for the the relationship. Now, I believe that is hurting me in a way too. I do look to far to the future to make sure we are compatible . I'm so scared to have things end as they have in my M.
But I do think you need to stop finding the perfect woman. Look for a suitable partner. Really visit what you want in a relationship. Think about what you have to offer someone else.
Great advice maybell.
Don,
Would you please go into your signature line and fix the "url" address or take it out completely? Posters can't click on the "url" address as it is reflected in your signature line.
Thanks!
As much as I'm trying to, I fear I'm not understanding much of what you are trying to tell me MayBell. I like to think, and many agree, I'm a pretty intelligent guy but when comes to R I can be dumb as a box of rocks. I'm going to try to answer and clarify and hopefully you can give it one more shot. I'm fine with blunt - I often don't get subtle. I'm just not getting a lot of this.
So are you trying to say, I'm not getting anywhere because I don't check THEIR boxes? Is that your point? And if so, do I check anyone's boxes? That's what I mean about this being my fault. Is that why I've had interactions, dates or asked out a dozen women and gotten pretty much nowhere with any of them - because I don't check their boxes? And if so, who's box will I ever check? I used to have this happen online as well. A women would state 10 things she is looking for. I'd honestly firmly fit 8 of them. I'd write and only get back a "I don't think we are a match." I'd be like, huh? You asked for business professional, who plays a sax, has a sarcastic sense of humor, flies a plane, owns his own home and is financially set. (just an over-the-top example) yet we are not a match? I DO NOT GET IT.
Back to reality... You also stated "There is something about the way you write about the women you're interested in that makes it sound like a constant audition for your attention, rather than a search for a partner." Can you explain this? Are you saying it seems like I'm auditioning women who catch my attention? Or who are attentive to me? I'm totally lost on this one.
"I also rarely hear about you showing interest in local women, so I wonder about that."
I have as well, although I do travel a lot, which is where I have met many of them. Others I've met through friends. Some used to live here and moved away. However, that said, the last two I asked out, including the women just last week, were very local. The woman from church is local and her parents, who she is close with, have retired 3 miles from my house. The one from last week is about 20 minutes away. So they are not all long distance but for whatever flipping reason, many have been. This is NOT a conscious thing on my part. Could it be subconscious? Most certainly. I'm just not overlooking local on purpose.
I'm just at a loss as to how or what to change in what I'm doing. I thought I was being too picky and eliminating too many right out of the gate - ie, lives too far away so don't bother. Instead, I've thought, give it a chance and see. Same with other attributes.
I'm more confused than ever. I know what I want. I just can't find it so I've thought about giving up some of what I want to not be so narrow about it. I've long thought it's something I'm doing or about me. Many here have said that's not the case. I just can't agree anymore. There has to be a reason all around me people move on, their wife dies and they have a new GF two or three years later. Yet I'm D 10 years and so single that if I showed up someplace with a GF I think people would fall over in shock - it's been THAT LONG!
Perhaps I need a dating coach or a life coach. Or just need to accept this is my life and it's not going to change. It's been this way for 10 years now and is going to continue.
Perhaps I need a dating coach or a life coach. Or just need to accept this is my life and it's not going to change. It's been this way for 10 years now and is going to continue.
Don,
I think you need to go skinny dipping.
I would as long as there is an appropriate companion...
Don: I put my list on my thread because that's where it belongs. Looking at it, I'm seeing, it took me quite a while to know if My Guy brought those things into my life. Partly it was absolute terror of getting hurt on my part. Partly it took a while for the relationship to grow enough to where I could see that he fit the things I was looking for (and I'm sure same on his side but I'm telling my story here). A couple of the things that were qualities that "he" had to have (height, political beliefs), My Guy doesn't have, but as it turns out the ones he does have are so very deeply precious to me that it is worth living without them.
It took several months to figure out *in that relationship* what was really important to me. Then several months more to trust in it. I had to change the way I looked at dating and just be willing to throw spaghetti at the wall and watch to see *who* people were. I only wanted the quality people who wanted me back. That eliminates a LOT of spaghetti pretty promptly.
When I say you are looking for the wrong things, it's exactly that "grocery list" mentality that you showed when you said how you've got 8 of the 10 qualities a woman says she wants on a dating site. What people want isn't usually what they think they want. If you want, say, a blond, athletic sax player, I'm pretty sure you'll find a blond athletic sax player, especially if you're willing to date someone who lives 500 miles away. But if you say, I want someone who will listen to me talk about famous sax players at 2 in the morning when I can't sleep, well, you're going to have to watch for an entirely different set of qualities, and you're probably not going to know if you've found it until you've invested some time. This isn't a lion/antelope situation. And you might end up with a brunette librarian who knows nothing about the sax, but she knows and likes everything about you, which is really what you want, right?
Finally, so what all those other people end up with new relationships fairly promptly? Maybe the widows were so good at relationships that they knew what they wanted fairly quickly, and so had an easier time seeing it. Maybe they're settling for something that doesn't really work at its core, but they are afraid to be alone. Maybe, maybe, maybe. I don't know. But what I hear from you is a guy who looks for surface qualities and hasn't really been willing to see WHO a woman is before deciding if she's "Perfect" or not. That's probably how you're showing up for these women and they can see it. If they're quality women, they don't want to be judged that way and they're dodging you.
I havent' gone through a years-long dry spell, but I did live in a highly isolating marriage for many years. It gave me a lot of time to understand what kind of relationship I really wanted for myself, and for my kids to witness. I know what loneliness feels like and how desperate a person can be to get out of it. I have sympathy for you. But you may have more luck if you see yourself as that woman's potential partner, and identify what you bring to HER table, instead of the other way around.
Great post, Maybell, again:)
The plumber guy and I were 100% compatibility on EHarmony. IRL, we were not compatible at all, lol.
I think it's difficult to put too much emphasis on "compatibility scores". People answer what they think will sound good...just like what they write on their profiles. Every woman loves life, sees the cup as half full, likes wine,looks good in jeans or a little black dress, likes to laugh and her passion is travel...oh, and she works out day and night lol. One thing I've noticed is that what they emphasize as important is often what you won't get from them e.g. honesty, no games!It's only through contact where you really get an idea of whether you're on the same page or not. I often find women are not really committed to the idea of meeting someone. They're sticking their toe in the water and that's about it. I get it, it's scary! Anyway, what I've learned to do is not contact people who a) write "ask me" as their profile b) carry on about what they don't want c) put 20 photos of themselves online d) "let's be friends first" (is this Facebook?) e) "I'm new to this and not too sure about it" . I've learned to go with my gut with women too. Sometimes I think I've ditched them too early and go back but find out very quickly I should have stuck with my original gut decision. Anyway, I don't know if that helps but...
I get it, it's scary! Anyway, what I've learned to do is not contact people who a) write "ask me" as their profile b) carry on about what they don't want c) put 20 photos of themselves online d) "let's be friends first" (is this Facebook?) e) "I'm new to this and not too sure about it" . I've learned to go with my gut with women too. Sometimes I think I've ditched them too early and go back but find out very quickly I should have stuck with my original gut decision. Anyway, I don't know if that helps but...
You know, just for kicks I've been looking at some of the sites for locals and this seems to be a common theme. Dang. Saw quite a few that I know on there.
...also stay away from women with screen names like "Hateyu" and "Done_In" (I didn't make these up)...no good times to be had there lol!
Don, I get the same thing...when I find a woman of my faith (which is rare), who loves photography and humour etc. I eagerly point out what we have in common and usually get nothing back and think WTF! I think sometimes it's just that maybe physically we don't float their boat. How many women do we sail past because we just don't feel the physical attraction? Probably lots. Sometimes it's also because, as I said above, they aren't that committed to meeting anyone but are just sticking their toe in the water to see what bites. I've also talked with many women and felt things were going well and they just disappear. It's always good to look back at what you've said and how you've said it but often the outcome has little to do with you. It's stuff you have no control over. It certainly can be discouraging sometimes.
Thank you everybody for you thoughts and comments - especially Maybell for digging up your list and posting it.
While I think I understand some of what you are all saying, I know I'm still not getting it with lots of other pieces. I also sence some of what I'm saying or how I'm saying it is causing confusion - For example the OLD piece. I agree very much with whatitis, which is why i pretty much gave up on OLD a while ago. Just mentioned it again to let everyone know I've tried it and got what I got ending in a whole lot of nothing. I also just tossed out that top of my head list of examples of mostly who I am and what I do's but I could just as well have listed women looking for someone who is honest, likes to hold hands, is a great kisser, enjoys going to sporting events or whatever. Those are actual examples I've seen posted and very much dis fine me. Even though I'd put all of these high on the list of who I am, even if they said they wanted these and little rise, I'd get back the "I don't think we're a match" if I got anything.
My first confusion then comes in you (Maybell) saying what people think they want, and thereby list, is only what they may think they want but not really want. If that's the case and they don't even know what they want, how the hell can I know what they want? All I can go on is what they say or write.
I believe I know very well what I want - I simply can't find it! I have a list much like yours in my head. This list is not nearly as much filled with blonde or tall or pretty as it is with honest, out-going, smart, conservative (or at least not liberal - sorry) likes to cuddle, kiss, hold my hand, etc. I can give you 15 or 20 more. I just can't find this or even get to know someone well enough to even figure them out.
I'm picky. I won't deny that. I want it all. If I can "give" on anything, it's looks. I don't care how hot or pretty or exactly my type she may be looks wise, if she is dumb as a box or can't carry a conversation, I just cant date her. To address the too picky concern I've been trying to give everyone a chance so I don't overlook someone. Turns out, they often don't want a chance.
The point you are making that I think I am getting is I'm looking too much at how they meet what I'm looking for rather than me looking at how I meet what they are looking for. Am I right? If so, does not much of that happen or get figured out as we get to know each other? If so, there in again lies the problem in that I'm not even being given the chance for that to happen.
In some ways I feel almost like some of the comments would be more true if I were cutting these women loose and refusing to give them a chance. Not the case - in fact it's the other way around! Maybell, You say that I'm going to have to invest some time getting to know them. You also stated how you were not sure about your guy and had to spend time getting to know him. EXACTLY! I could not agree more. Thing is, you were willing to give your guy a chance and invest the time. I have not even found that lately! So how do I fix that. What made you willing to give your guy a second, third, fourth date? Ive listed examples of this six months ago and you responded then. it's hard enough to find someone I want to ask out. If I do, many are are already in an R, live too far away or don't want to date - sometimes me, sometimes ANYONE. I can list 10 that fall in these categories in the past 18 months. A few others I again am very willing to invest the time, many say they want to go out again yet it never happens! This is in part how I learned what the term ghosting meant!
And then finally, if only this "dry spell" had only been going on for a year - try since the summer of 2013! I think I've said this before, it's not like I ever had multiple women chasing after me but it's never been like this. Women friends tell me they don't at all get it, I'm smart, fun, treat women very, very well, have the means to do pretty much whatever I want, financially secure, reasonably good looking. I just don't get it but it has clearly put a hit on my self astem and self confidence - which doesn't help either. I'm am a VERY confident guy or at least used to be. I still am in most things non-dating
If someone could tell me what to do or what to change I would in an instant - at least to the best of my ability. For the first 5 years after my D I could have cared less if I had a date. I have always been great at being alone. Careful what you wish for. Interesting how our drummers father, who I've know since I'm 15 said to me as we were both leaving the event last weekend, "don't do anything stupid" to which I laughed... Then he continued "like get married." Interesting comment certainly no damaged of that!
One last thing Maybell, can you more explain what you mean by:
"But what I hear from you is a guy who looks for surface qualities and hasn't really been willing to see WHO a woman is before deciding if she's "Perfect" or not. That's probably how you're showing up for these women and they can see it. If they're quality women, they don't want to be judged that way and they're dodging you."
I think I may get it but not totally. Blunt is okay if that's the only way I'll understand. Perhaps give me an example. If I'm doing it, I'll stop as best I can. Are you saying they are sensing that my only interest is in their looks? If so, do you really think that THEY ate thinking that? Or is it the impression you've of me?
Agin, just so I'm not misunderstood here, Im not trying to dismiss anything being said. I'm just trying to get to the bottom of it all and change what I can. My level of confindece used to be that I was a guy many would love to date if I was not married. Perhaps that was never the case other than with my ex W
OMG!!!!! I think I get it now, but while you guys, mostly Maybell, plugged the light in, it got turned on by reading an OLD profile - no, I'm not trying that again but the comments had me looking to verify what a few said about women's profiles. (I simply love to learn so was doing just that) anyhow, I ran into this:
"I take care of myself and feel physical appearance is very important. I exercise and try to eat right. I hope you will give me a chance to get to know me! Life is too short and while I enjoy making the best of every day it would be nice to have someone to enjoy life with me."
Wow! It's as if God put that posting in my path. It's all about her! She hopes her guy will get to know her - not she know him! She doesn't want to share her life with a guy, she wants said guy to share her life! It's all me me me and I I I
Is that what you're trying to tell me Maybell? If. So, I get it now! You planted the seed for me and this profile drove it home!
Wow, Don, I don't know you really but reading your thread is enlightening! As usual, maybell has come along and illuminated the room and I am AMAZED at your most recent discovery just above.
Amazing. This place is amazing. I wish you could all see my face. My mouth is wide open and my eyes wide. Amazing.
"I hope you'll give me a chance" is negative...it tells the reader that she's not that good a catch and that there may be things she's hiding. Online dating fascinates me because every word a person types can have effect. I once coached a lady not too long ago who was asking, on the dating site, for some guidance 'cuz she was tired of the crap emails she was getting from guys. I told her to lose the negative stuff like "if you don't comment on my rack I won't suggest we send a search party to find your teenie weinie". She spent 2/3 of her profile talking to the men she DIDN'T want to attract! I told her that those guys don't even read your profile so why give them your energy! I gave her a few other tips too...nice lady (She actually asked me out after that ha ha ) Anyway, make sure you've got humour in your profile Don. Everyone loves to laugh. Don't have a long list of attributes you are looking for 'cuz that scares people off. NEVER sound negative...like "smokers turn me off" (even if they do...it's in their profile stuff anyway so no need to say it).So that's what I've got for you this morning. Oh, one thing that makes me move to the next profile is when a lady writes "I'm straight forward" or "I say it like it is" 'cuz that says to me "you piss me off and my boot will be so far up your butt it'll take a week to get it out" (My drill Sergeant once said that to me...with a few more profanities thrown in lol) Anyway, have a good day!
Agin, just so I'm not misunderstood here, Im not trying to dismiss anything being said. I'm just trying to get to the bottom of it all and change what I can. My level of confindece used to be that I was a guy many would love to date if I was not married. Perhaps that was never the case other than with my ex W
Don,
If it helps, I want you to know that I'm attracted to you.
I give up.
As for every word meaning something, I just can't agree. I see it everyday in my work that people simply don't read. They don't. If anything they skim. In fact, I'll prove it with the comments about what I should do online dating.
IM NOT ONLINE DATING!!!!!! And have not for many months. I wrote that several times. I was only using past examples and then looked at some profiles to see how many talked about the examples listed. I've not done well IRL lately but I've met way more people off line than on in the past six months.
NOT OLD
Sorry, I must have missed that part. That said, I do read because when I approach a woman I want her to know that I did read what she wrote and that puts you ahead of a great many guys. Anyway, enough re: online dating
"I take care of myself and feel physical appearance is very important. Superficial! I exercise and try to eat right. So is it health or appearance? 'Health conscious' would have been better - that's important information because it won't work for her to be with someone who doesn't care about staying fit. I hope you will give me a chance to get to know me! She sounds defeated and self-centered all at once... Life is too short and while I enjoy making the best of every day it would be nice to have someone to enjoy life with me. Should have left out 'with me'. Also, 'making the best of every day' doesn't sound like she's really enjoying her life."
Wow! It's as if God put that posting in my path. It's all about her! She hopes her guy will get to know her - not she know him! She doesn't want to share her life with a guy, she wants said guy to share her life! It's all me me me and I I I
In an online dating profile you have to write about yourself to give someone an idea of who you are, though, so there will be a lot of 'I' and 'me'. But I would write about things I enjoy doing with a partner, what I'm looking for in a relationship, what I contribute.
I think the best profiles are 20-30 lines. It's short enough to read, and long enough to give a real impression of who the person is. And there should be something in there to make the reader smile or laugh - something a little surprising or witty.
To echo what Painter and whatisis said, its true that some skim, but if attention isn't paid to what they've written, then the battle gets that much harder. Sure, there is some fluff, but within it is the truth, too.
And, their profiles are about them - not about you. Think of it as a car sales ad, because in a sense it is really an ad, the seller will describe what they are selling, not who is buying.
I have a very good friend who put her ad on match not all that long ago, and when I asked her about why she wrote what she did, she simply said "I put it to describe me and my likes, because that is what its all about. It's up to the other person to like it or not, if they do and contact me, great, but they need to be able to show me they paid attention to what I wrote and not just my pictures." She is very pretty, btw, and told me you'd be surprised at the things she gets - for instance, the story on her holding her niece...she described the picture, but this one guy asked if that was her daughter, which made it obvious he didn't read. She likened that to someone who talks to you but doesn't listen. And yes, her profile is very, very witty. And smart.
Don -- I got that you weren't OLD!
Yes, it was all I, I, I in her profile and that is how you sound when you talk about the perfect woman. Even if she's already got all that, it freezes her in place if she were in a relationship with you. She could never alter her interests without risking the relationship.
You feel like you're not getting a lot of feedback about why these women are suddenly ghosting you. Tell us more about your interactions with the woman who showed up with her parents before that weekend. Maybe that will help.
In the meantime... do you think your anxiety to be in a relationship is showing to the people you meet with? Or some of your frustration at not making faster progress? Because that *could* be part of the problem too.
Omg this is getting down right comical. Perhaps it's my fault for even including OLD in my comments and figuring people could follow. Clearly it's "hey a squirrel" and off they all go.
.
Thank God for you Maybell, and Ginger, sandi, Job and there are others. Not even sure why I did but I hit the link to look at a posters list of comments. I was shocked to see dozens in a single day! They started at like 5 AM and went straight through until past 1 PM with one hour or so break. That's an eight hour day! Who in the heck has time to sit on here and post for eight straight hours? Who can have that many meaningful comments? It's all starting to register now. In some cases the advice is worth what we are paying for it. Lol
But back to your questions Maybell as I really do trust what you have to say. Could they sense desperation in me? Not likely. Could they sense I'm getting fed up with all of this? With my sarcastic humor, that could very well be a factor. Honestly I'd love to ask. I so value honestly and can learn from it. I'd like to ask all of them below.
The advice I often give friends is it's usually more about them and in the case of the women this past weekend I very much think that's it. I mean who drives 3 or 4 hours to an event to meet their patents who live several states away and then goes to her room at 9 and home the next morning when she planned on the weekend? I think she has issues and I saw them right away when we met over TG but I again thought... Give her a chance. As for what happened, you tell me. I was talking in a group with her and a few others. A friend of mine asked her to dance and she did but returned to talking to me. A good sign thought. She asked if I was going to dance with her just as I had to leave to perform in the next band in like minutes. I sad, absolutely, but when I'm done and that was the last I saw of her. I knew she had been sick in the last couple weeks and thought maybe she was tired. Then when I didn't see her Saturday, I texted and asked where she was hiding? "I ended up in my room by 9pm. Never left after that although my parents visited. I disappeared...I drove back to Michy yesterday.". Who does that? So honestly in this case I'm not giving it much more thought. I think she's a bit lost after her D. I don't know the details but when asked what she does, she responded, "I play a lot of tennis". Okay then.
I'll give you a quick run down of some others
1. Met at a birthday party of a mutual friend and his wife. They both know both of us very well. Me for 25 years her for at least 15. We had fun together for several hours. Female mutual friend said how she rarely is that outgoing like she was with me. Went out once, seemed to be going fine until she abruptly says, I got to go - after some texts. Later the mutual friend tells me she's interested. I was SHOCKED. We've texted since with her initiating some as well. No second date.
2. Met again through different mutual friends. I asked her out at the end of the first date after the friends left us, to which she without hesitation accepted. Tried multiple times to set something up and it never happened. Gave up until wishing her happy birthday a few months later. Again a warm response so I offered to take her out for her birthday when she returned from the work trip she was on. "That would be great" was again the response. Again it never happened.
3. This was different... She sat in front of me in church TWO YEARS ago. I sent her a FB note that she first happened to get less than two months ago due to how FB used to handle those. She said she just got this now. We chatted a bit and SHE ASKED ME OUT! Timing around the holidays was challenging so we agreed to after the new year. I contact her and she says she "met someone" and wants to see where it goes but adds we can still meet as friends. I sense this was to take any pressure off and I tell her that's what I was pretty much thinking anyhow since we really don't know each other yet. She says great and compliments me on my attitude. Still have not met. It's been "maybe next week, I'll let you know."
4. Met at a very large event I helped run a few weeks ago. Didn't think I'd be seeing her again until next year so asked her to lunch or dinner. Said she is a Single gal" but has a "dear friend" (notice not a BF) and doesn't date more than one person at a time. I have very strong indications she might be gay but keeps it quiet. Although. She still wants to go to dinner and she has initiated contact all week. Who the hell knows?
I'll stop there but you get the idea. Several there have been single for three, four, five years, don't seem to date at all but politely have turned me down. Now to be fair and honest, there have been others who have been interested in me who I have spent time with but are just not a match. One is 12 years younger with two kids 7 and 10. I've done the kids thing and at 53 don't want to go back. Another lives in Canada and it got to the point if I picked up my phone and turned on anything she could see I was there poof she be messaging. Did it again last night asking "we're you trying to text me?" MAJOR TURNOFF.
I don't know if this helps anything Maybell - other than to perhaps explain my frustration. I do keep trying. Met someone who was at a work gathering at a place I was performing at with a band. No ring. She came back the next night! So I approached her and the couple friends she had with her. She must have sensed I may be interested as she slipped in "I was telling myhusband..." I'm thinking, dude, buy your wife a ring. Lol.
Married
Boyfriend
Not interested
Claim interested but never follows through
Doesn't want to date anyone
Oh, I'll add, I've been told I can be intimidating, I've clearly had a drop in self confidence but then again I've always been very high in that area so per shays I'm just back to average. If anything g, my frustration is clearly elevated. Can anyone blame me
See if you can pull anything out of all of that
And I swear if I get more on line dating advice. Lol
There is a pattern here...
The advice I often give friends is it's usually more about them and in the case of the women this past weekend I very much think that's it. I mean who drives 3 or 4 hours to an event to meet their patents who live several states away and then goes to her room at 9 and home the next morning when she planned on the weekend? I think she has issues and I saw them right away when we met over TG but I again thought... Give her a chance. As for what happened, you tell me. I was talking in a group with her and a few others. A friend of mine asked her to dance and she did but returned to talking to me. A good sign thought. She asked if I was going to dance with her just as I had to leave to perform in the next band in like minutes. I sad, absolutely, but when I'm done and that was the last I saw of her. I knew she had been sick in the last couple weeks and thought maybe she was tired. Then when I didn't see her Saturday, I texted and asked where she was hiding? "I ended up in my room by 9pm. Never left after that although my parents visited. I disappeared...I drove back to Michy yesterday.". Who does that? So honestly in this case I'm not giving it much more thought. I think she's a bit lost after her D. I don't know the details but when asked what she does, she responded, "I play a lot of tennis". Okay then
This one seems interested and based on what you said it looked like she tried to engage you multiple times. Maybe she wasn't feeling a return vibe. Maybe she just got tired of waiting or just lost interest. That tennis line is odd, but then again maybe its a brush-off statement.
1. Met at a birthday party of a mutual friend and his wife. They both know both of us very well. Me for 25 years her for at least 15. We had fun together for several hours. Female mutual friend said how she rarely is that outgoing like she was with me. Went out once, seemed to be going fine until she abruptly says, I got to go - after some texts. Later the mutual friend tells me she's interested. I was SHOCKED. We've texted since with her initiating some as well. No second date.
No phone calls? If not, then I'm not surprised there wasn't a second date.
2. Met again through different mutual friends. I asked her out at the end of the first date after the friends left us, to which she without hesitation accepted. Tried multiple times to set something up and it never happened. Gave up until wishing her happy birthday a few months later. Again a warm response so I offered to take her out for her birthday when she returned from the work trip she was on. "That would be great" was again the response. Again it never happened
You'll find that happens more often than not. Was there any more contact after "that would be great?" A lot of time between contacts isn't indicative of interest.
3. This was different... She sat in front of me in church TWO YEARS ago. I sent her a FB note that she first happened to get less than two months ago due to how FB used to handle those. She said she just got this now. We chatted a bit and SHE ASKED ME OUT! Timing around the holidays was challenging so we agreed to after the new year. I contact her and she says she "met someone" and wants to see where it goes but adds we can still meet as friends. I sense this was to take any pressure off and I tell her that's what I was pretty much thinking anyhow since we really don't know each other yet. She says great and compliments me on my attitude. Still have not met. It's been "maybe next week, I'll let you know."
How does FB handle messages? Never had that issue, even with people who aren't friended yet. Interesting. She's not interested, period.
4. Met at a very large event I helped run a few weeks ago. Didn't think I'd be seeing her again until next year so asked her to lunch or dinner. Said she is a Single gal" but has a "dear friend" (notice not a BF) and doesn't date more than one person at a time. I have very strong indications she might be gay but keeps it quiet. Although. She still wants to go to dinner and she has initiated contact all week. Who the hell knows?
There seems some interest from her. Go out - what's the issue? Could give you some much-needed practice.
I'll stop there but you get the idea. Several there have been single for three, four, five years, don't seem to date at all but politely have turned me down.
Don,
Maybe you should give dating a break and do the venetian plaster thing with doodler. I assure you that it's more fun than you can imagine. And, I'm certain that one of these days a hot babe is going to magically appear and we'll get plastered together. I know you won't accept my invitation now, but it's an open invitation...
^ What he said. Friendly banter can be a much-needed thing with what we all are going through and provide stress relief. Some process differently that you, sir. However, since you have decided to put yourself on a pedestal and call posters out, then you set a precedence that you may not like. Do what you will - I enjoy both friendly and un-friendly debate.
Oh, and try not to worry about how many people posts per day, hour, or even minute. It's bad for you health.
I'd like to join in on this but I've got squirrels to chase!
I give up.
As for every word meaning something, I just can't agree. I see it everyday in my work that people simply don't read. They don't. If anything they skim. In fact, I'll prove it with the comments about what I should do online dating.
IM NOT ONLINE DATING!!!!!! And have not for many months. I wrote that several times. I was only using past examples and then looked at some profiles to see how many talked about the examples listed. I've not done well IRL lately but I've met way more people off line than on in the past six months.
NOT OLD
Don, sometimes people start writing a reply but hit the post button much later. I wrote my perception of the profile you quoted while you were writing your post above, and never saw your post or the next one until after I hit post myself.
I'm a little astounded at the way you call out posters for - in your opinion - not being helpful enough to you or for posting too much on the forums. This is a public forum, take what you need and leave the rest.
Do ferrets chase squirrels?
Jeep,
My ferret, about 3 pounds of fluffiness, chases my 80 pound dog. He's fearless.
Hey Don, my only thought is that it isn't always possible to get exactly what you want when you want it. Just because everything isn't going the way you want doesn't mean you are doing something horribly wrong. Sometimes it's just the way it is. I understand you feel it is a pattern and you're the common thread, but it might be that's it's just darn difficult to get something going these days. Yeah, you notice those that form a new relationship quickly, but that's maybe because you're looking for it, and you don't see all those in the same spot you are.
Bottom line, you seem like a cool guy so keep enjoying yourself and take er easy.
Hi Don..
You already know how conservative I am.. my opinion is that there is too many options at once. If those ladies feel like an option, they will treat you as an option.. a relationship is time spent together, devotion, understanding and compromise. invest in one and only one. you will get to see the whole person. the good and the bad. if you admire the good and can live with the bad, you got a winner..
there is always BETTER in everything.. There is also worst. eventually, enough is good. Enough is appreciating what you have.
please, do not be too hard on me. I know some of you will send me 2x4s..
Don,
You seem to immediately lay claim to any woman who responds to you -- and then are overly disappointed when these newbie "relationships" fizzle quickly. You seem genuinely shocked and puzzled as to why.
First, I'd suggest you stop trying to date any women you meet at out of town, random events. There is NO potential in asking out these women...so don't bother.
Get involved in something - anything •where you live• and let these relationships develop naturally over time.
You seem to take any friendliness as interest -- and quickly ask the women out -- sometimes they say yes -- and sometimes they don't even open that door -- and try to politely turn you down, by using tried and true excuses.
You seem to want a relationship SO much that you're reading way too much into these encounters.
They're at best mild flirtations -- and the majority of these women don't want them to go any further ... but you pursue them hard -- so some do accept a 1st date -- but rarely does that lead to a second date.
You need to put yourself into situations where you will meet and get to know women over time, in a natural way. Volunteer somewhere or join a gym, hiking club, book club, cooking classes etc. ANY activity that is ongoing that would afford you the chance to just relax -- and let things happen naturally without you pushing so hard.
It would appear that your anxiousness to date somebody screams needy -- and is turning these women off.
When men behave anxiously like you do -- instantly asking them out -- and pursuing them hard for more dates -- it scares people off. It's too much too soon.
It's as with many things in life -- you need to stop having any expectations -- and just live your life. The universe can and will bring someone into your life -- when you're ready.
At this point, you come across as someone who is pursuing too hard -- too quickly. And I'd bet when you do get a date -- you're talking too much about other things you'd enjoy doing with them in the future -- mentioning other places you'd enjoy taking them too, on future dates etc. This scares people a lot!
Most women like to get to know someone for awhile before they date them. When a man they just meet -- instantly asks them out -- they know it's only based on physicality and not for any deeper reason.
You sound like someone who has been successful in life -- and who is used to getting what he wants by working hard. But in dating -- you can't just order up interest and force someone into wanting to be in a relationship with you -- just b/c you think you're doing all the "right" things.
You give yourself away so easily to anyone who shows you any friendliness ...play harder to get!
Good luck!
I agree with Summer too. I had been thinking along these lines, but just hadn't gotten around to posting.
The other thing I would point out is the 'stinkin' thinkin'' - ie: my friend became single and now he has a GF in just two years and here I am 10 years later still trying...
It's not helpful to compare in that way. Who knows how any of us will fare in future R's - when we may meet someone - how successful that might be and so on?
I think allowing time for friendships to form etc. Is a really good way to go. For me, going out with a guy I don't know really doesn't appeal at all and I'm sure many women would feel the same. Plus, give yourself time to get to know them a little before going in with the flirtation and asking for a date..it's a more respectful way I think.
JMHO of course - and hope this is helpful :-)
Thank you to everyone who has taken the time to post. Summer, it looks like you've not posted here to anyone in a long time so I am flattered you took the time to try to help me.
It's been a rough weekend - I've not had such a down, depressing weekend in a long time. I do not want to go back to that dark place of years ago it feels like I may be slipping back there. I really hope not.
There are some valid points in the thoughts posted. Of course it's also hard to get an accurate picture just from a few posts i make. Clearly my life contributes to my situation and always has. It's just worse now as I'm involved in less than I used to be. It's easy to say not to try anything with women out of town or random events but like it or not, that is much of my life and I can't/don't want to change it. I've been self employed all my life and band gigs are part of that plus something I really enjoy. That means out of town trips and lots of random events. However, I clearly need to broaden that, so pint taken.
As for coming off too interested or needy, I don't think that's the case. Also, other than the woman from two weeks ago, which exactly was me thinking she was interested and asking her out prematurely as I didn't think I'd see her again for a long time - most don't go like that. It was only one example. In fact, since I'm not all that interested in the lady from last weekend who left and went home, I decided to just come out and ask why she left last week. Her answer? "You didn't seem at all interested." That's what she thought - or at least told me. So that's the exact opposite of trying too hard or scaring her away. It actually confirmed my thoughts in that I don't appear approachable or interested many times. Now there certainly may be times I do try too hard - not saying that may never be the case, I just think that what I'm saying here is being miscronstrude or assumed that's what I'm doing in person. I'm sure I see more spdesperate in these comments with all of you. But like DBing, I say it to you in an effort to not say it in person.
It is very accurate that I've been successful in most other ares of my life so am frustrated when this area doesn't work out. For about five years after D I could have cared less if I dated anyone or not. Then I started to think it was time and figured it would all return. Well, it has not! Then I see seemingly everyone else having success and I feel like a failure. I've seen even more recently - perhaps because I'm sensitive to it and looking.
One of the very first women I dated was nearly five years ago. We are still FB friends so what do I see but her having a 50th birthday party for what must have been the guy she dated right after me. (I don't follow that closely and she doesn't list much about her romantic interests) She writes how she almost gave up on him early on but glad she didn't. Five years! Then the gal who ghosted me this summer - yep once again just admited she has a new BF - first in many years. I thought she was not ready to date - wrong, just not ready to date me.
I'm frustrated, very frustrated. It's affecting my disposition now as well. I was a total crab ass last night. Everywhere I look was Valentines Day and love. Bah humbug!
I also don't understand why these women persue me then go away. Not all but many or at least some. Again, in years past I'd say it's the, and many tines it would be. But after all this time... I was just living my life and not trying much if at all, so friends say I need to try harder, put myself out there, try OLD, etc. so I did. Now I'm told, don't try so hard, just live your life. Well is that not where I was? So if I try that again will I get. "You can't expect someone to just appear, you have to put yourself out there." It seems like an endless circle. If I don't try I do t get anything, if I do try I still don't get anything.
And getting to know them and let it develop over time... How does that not end in a friend zone - which has happened many times as well. From 15-25 I struggled, was usually friend zoned. I also later realized I was being pursued but others and did not know it. From 25-35 I dated all the time, had some great R and felt as accomplished in my romantic life as I did in all other aspects. From about 35-45 I was with ex W (using round numbers here) then until,48 or 49 I didn't care. Since then I feel back at the 15-25 stage again. That's how I feel - like I'm just destined to be alone. And I still love being alone but not all the time. I feel like I'm wasting years of my life. It's not that I don't do things and live - I just would enjoy them so much more with someone else. I really am that person who has a great life that could be made even better with a partner. I'm panning a vacation in April. I'd live to be planning this with someone else rather than going by myself.
I first have to prevent from going deeper into this rut. This may be a challenging week. I so want my old life back as the title says, this used to be way easier and a lot more fun! Thanks for reading and trying to help.
Don
Dating isn't easy nor is it an easy option for many. For me I am simply not ready, maybe I never will be ready.
It's a risk, life is a risk, your precious heart needs protecting.
And it's ok. Truly it is.
Absolutely fine.
Clearly you have identified you are sending mixed messages to the ladies you want to date. Lack of congruence in your attitude and behaviour. Something is telling you that you aren't ready and you are self sabotaging.
I think so.
It's frustrating you and bah humbug! And that's ok too.
You are unsure as if there is a fix. There may not be a fix, it may just need to slowly resolve. Relax there is a reason and you will learn it as it unfolds.
V
Don,
You've answered your own question.
You've adamantly written that you like your life as it is -- that band gigs are something you really enjoy -- which entails out of town, random events, that are an important part of your life -- and that you "can't/don't want to change" that.
Your life is thus, not conducive to meeting and then getting to know a woman in a natural, slower-paced way -- and you've stated that you're happy with this lifestyle and unwilling to change it -- which is absolutely fine and your prerogative.
Life is all about choices and consequences. And your lifestyle choices seem to have led to making it virtually impossible, to establish a real relationship with a woman.
My larger point was b/c of your lifestyle -- that you take any friendliness as an indication of interest -- and often make the leap to thinking a relationship has begun...when it hasn't.
You seem the type of guy, who meets a woman in a long line at motor vehicle or the grocery store -- and engages in friendly chit chat while waiting to check out -- and you think her friendliness indicates she's interested in you. And b/c of that -- you would then probably offer to help her to her car and load the groceries -- and get her number or go instantly into asking for a date.
For most people the friendly encounter is just that -- a brief conversation with a nice, friendly complete stranger. End of story. It happens every day to people.
You seem to take ANY encounter -- if the woman is friendly -- as her showing interest in you.
Only you can decide •what• must change IF you truly want a different result -- b/c clearly what you've been doing is not giving you the result you want.
Good luck!
So Summer, are you saying I can only have one or the other? If so, why do you believe this? And if so, why did it work before? I've done the band thing and been self employed working from my home since I'm 20. Thus has not changed.
I'm also confused at why you think that I believe anyone who is friendly is interested? That most certainly happened at the event at the end of January, but that was ONE ENCOUNTER with one woman. The others have not gone like that. The others I went on dates with - sometimes at THEIR invitation. How can I be mis-reading them?
Is really the only way to meet someone and develop a R is the way you are describing? Really, that's the only way? If so, then I guess I am screwed and more depression here I come. Why can't I live my life as I am and still meet someone worth spending time with? I'm confused.
And then finally, am I really that bad at judging interest? If so, then how do I tell the difference between the lady in the grocery line just being friendly and actually being interested? Most don't say anything therefore... Not interested. Now you're saying those who do go out of their way to be friendly are not interested either? Really? So NO ONE is interested. Is that it? I'm very confused here - even more than usual. It almost sounds like you are saying, no one us interested Don. You're misreading everything. Is that your point?
The piece I do get and very much agree is what I'm doing is not working. You and I seem to agree on that. However, others disagree and say it's nothing I. Doing, it's just not "my time" or "when I least expect it..." V seems to be in that camp
The thing is, I don't think I've changed at all. I'm basically the same as I was 20 years ago when all of this worked. Same jobs, live in the same house (same location) hell IM told I even look the same and I know weight the same as I did n high school. This was just never an issue 20 years ago - so why is it now? I should not have to change who I am to find someone should I? Should someone not be out there who will love or at least like me for me.
See why I'm so frustrated? Or am I the only one that thinks these things?
Ding ding ding!
You are the same as 20 years ago when all of this worked. life changes, stages in life change, there are different deal breakers, desires of women who are now 20 years older. Maybe someone who goes away on gigs every weekend isn't something an older woman is looking for in a partner now. Maybe she wants some who is around on weekends to spend time with her. I'm not saying you should change your lifestyle. But maybe there are just fewer women who that works for. Which is why you shouldn't have to change who you are, but you'll have to have more patience for the right one.
Don,
I can only offer you my observations with fresh eyes. You don't have to agree or accept my opinion.
If you read back over your own examples of stories about women and situations in this thread -- you'd see that you always think friendliness = they're interested in you. Story after story, that is the theme of your encounters. The women were friendly and receptive and seemed interested -- but you end up shocked and confused that in the end, that they weren't.
And to answer your question -- yes, I do think you're really bad at judging interest. Friendliness, in random encounters, is not usually an indication of interest. Some people are just friendly -- and they are equally friendly and nice to women, men, children and dogs!
And you wrote:
"Why can't I live my life as I am and still meet someone worth spending time with? I'm confused."
Well, you can IF that's working for you.
But what worked in the past -- when you were 20 -- has zero bearing on what will work now -- b/c the women you're going to meet now are not young girls -- they're mature, established women.
Their lifestyles have changed a lot -- while you say that you're basically living the same lifestyle you were at 20 -- but that lifestyle doesn't work or fit with most women your age.
Most women your age have jobs, kids, family responsibilities, ties to their communities and stable lives that they enjoy. They're looking for someone who'd fit into, shares and enjoys their type of traditional lifestyle.
You seem to be looking for your female counterpart -- someone less traditional -- who'd enjoy and be able to travel to your gigs with you on weekends etc. And that's fine -- but there is likely a smaller pool of women like that.
No one can tell you how to remedy this. As I wrote before, only you can decide •what• you need to do to get a better result.
Good luck!
Well to be honest, it's not like Im gone every weekend, in fact not even close. I travel 10 maybe a dozen times a year. Plus, things have not gotten that far that it's even been a factor - although they could be thinking it after learning what I do.
It does bring up other twists and turns that may make all of this even harder and brings validity to your main point of patience. On the plus side I have the ability to pretty much set my own schedule if I find the right person. So that's a positive as I can cut back or change things should I need to. That said, I don't think I ever want to get married again. I just see no reason in it. I've heard the same from some women. I also don't feel a need to be with someone all the time. Some have said this makes it even harder. Others say there are a lot of women my age wanting the same. In fact they are turned off by guys who get clingy and want more of their time or want to get M. For example that lady I mentioned going on five years with BF. She seems to have little interest in marriage and the time they spend together seems to work for them - which fits with what she told me five years ago as well. I need someone in the same mindset. This is in part why I often avoid those never married - figuring that's a goal they will have. Those with young kids are the same. But these are all issues down the road - a road I'm rarely getting more than a mile down anyhow.
After saying things are the same 20 years later, I guess that's true, just not entirely in that I'm not involved in as much or meeting as many people as I used to. I also have less friends. Hell, just going through a D does that. So while I'm much the same guy, my life has changed - obviously.
I'm just trying to be as honest about all of this as possible. I didn't think this is where I'd be at 50. Everything else is as planned. I'm semi-retired and can adjust my schedule to fit. I really would love to find somene to travel with and have both the money and time to do it. If she travels for work, I coukd go with her. If she wants to see me more, I can do that (within reason) if she is busy and wants less I can do that. I'm fine with only dating one person and would prefer it. Im fine living together if that's the course things take. So I'm flexible in much of this. After seeing how hard it's been, I won't take it for granted.
And then as if this is not complicated enough, I clearly don't feel a connection with some of them. Perhaps they sense that in me in addition to perhaps not feeling it themselves. I'm just trying to give them a chance, thinking you just never know. I'm not turned off to them mind you, just not head over heals. So even with some of them, while its upsetting, it's not like I thought we were a match anyhow - just that it could grow.
F-me. This is honestly helping me to process all of this. It may not be pretty - down right ugly, but knowing and understanding is part of the battle. A
Though I've often felt I know what I want, just not his to get it. With the help of posters here I'm seeing that I'm not bringing enough to the table as to wars in it for them, not just for me. I'm really not THAT interested in likely half as it's more a "yeah, I'd go out with her" versus a "I really want to go out with her."
Feels like I'm looking for a needle in a haystack.
Sorry if I'm all over the place here. I really do appreciate everyone taking the time to comment. Just trying to provide the most honest info I can.
I didn't see your latest post Summer until I had posted at the same time. I totally appreciate your fresh set of eyes. I'll look back to see what I may have forgotten about these encounters, I honestly just don't remember them - or certainly acting on them. It's not me accepting or not accepting what you are saying, it's much more about understanding.
I totally agree that I can't easily gauge interest. That is not knew and cuts both ways. I've had times all through life where someone was interested and I had NO CLUE. I've also had the opposite where I think they are interested and I'm wrong. Thing is, how in the hell do I fix that? Can I? You are saying they were not interested. Okay, let's just agree. What would it look like if they really were? How would I tell the difference?
I cleared up some of the 20 year differences but again, I'm Not trying to say I live the same. My step kids who are still in my life are grown with kids of their own so life is way different. I don't go out like I used to. Many things are different. I'm just much the same inside - just as out going or introverted, look the same, feel the same, treat people the same, etc. that's what I as trying to say
Perhaps Im Looking for answers that simply don't exist. I guess I'm hoping that there are things I can do or not do to make me as successful as those around me. Man my head hurts from thinking so much. I've been very sucsful at so many things. It really hurts to have this piece of my life suck. I can't get these years back. If time stood still I wouldn't care. I just can't share these years of my life with someone again. I'll never be able to share my 50th birthday with my GF like I did my 40th with my wife. I won't be able to share my step sons or step daughters wedding with a GF. I won't be able to share the cruises and vacations I've ebe by myself. And the list goes on - and that just [censored].
Perhaps Im Looking for answers that simply don't exist. I guess I'm hoping that there are things I can do or not do to make me as successful as those around me. Man my head hurts from thinking so much. I've been very sucsful at so many things. It really hurts to have this piece of my life suck. I can't get these years back. If time stood still I wouldn't care. I just can't share these years of my life with someone again. I'll never be able to share my 50th birthday with my GF like I did my 40th with my wife. I won't be able to share my step sons or step daughters wedding with a GF. I won't be able to share the cruises and vacations I've ebe by myself. And the list goes on - and that just [censored].
Don,
Off point - gotta ask a question, if your tag reads that you are 53, then how are you going to celebrate your 50th?
Back on point - The unfortunate thing is that you won't be able to celebrate your 50th or those things like you did with your wife. Just not possible. However, you can celebrate milestones with a new person but they will be in a different form...and that's the excitement of it all. You don't want things to be the same, because then that would be nothing more than trying to fill the ex's shoes. Which is not possible.
I have a friend who was much in your same situation. In his case, he "pushed" in much the same way you do. Sure, he had no problem getting first dates but rarely got seconds because he came across as needy/clingy and wanting to skip entire steps in the dating process. This was during the time I was seeing Ms. Harley Quinn and she gave him this fantastic advice (this was years ago so I may be off a little, so forgive me) - "Mark, the problem with you is that you are looking for a relationship a little too hard. Take things as they are, and if they progress then they progress. Go into them with no expectations and let them build as time goes. Otherwise, they run every time."
Let it happen. I know its tough to want someone to date and feel like it isn't happening. It will, just not when you expect it.
Hi Don!
I know everyone before me has given you a lot to think about and I'm not sure I can offer anything earth-shatteringly different, but what I can say is that I'm right there with you in that boat of being unable to judge interest very well. Someone is friendly and I think, oh, maybe they are interested. I have to constantly rein myself in and remind myself that I'm a very friendly person. I'm that lady who will talk to complete strangers in line at the grocery store, the DMV, waiting to buy movie tickets, whatever. And, just because I'm friendly doesn't always mean I'm interested, but by the same token, just because someone reaches out to me in a friendly way, doesn't mean they are interested either....if any of that makes sense.
I also agree with what those before me said about maybe your lifestyle might not be super appealing to women who are in more mature stages in their life. Speaking ONLY for myself here, I don't want a super clingy man, but I also don't want one who is gone all the time, doing gigs. I want someone that I can call up on a random Tuesday night to go for a drink or have over on Saturday or Sunday afternoon to go take a walk in the park with my dog then go back to my place for lunch or dinner. While I'm sure you are very settled in your career and in your routine, it might seem less so to some women and maybe seen as even a tad unstable (not unstable as in crazy, but unstable as in steady income/hours/responsibilities).
I know it has taken me awhile to get to the point where I REALLY want to date. I didn't when I first went thru my D. But I also know that good things take time and that things have a way of working out how/when they are supposed to. I guess I'm putting myself in V's camp here of it will happen when it is meant to happen.
I wish you all the best as I have no doubt that you are a decent, caring, stand-up guy. I just bet there is a lovely lady out there somewhere who is just the right one for you and I hope you find her.
Don, there may not be an answer to your questions...sometimes things happen and sometimes they don't. I don't see anything wrong with you reaching out to women you think might be interested but, when doing so, you have to be ready to accept a lot of rejection. I had a friend in my younger days who used to say that one in ten women would say yes to him...so every time a woman said no he felt excited because he knew he was one closer to that number ten who was going to say yes! I also think that at our age women are not as eager as they once were. If you're single at this age then you've been through some sh*t and that baggage is hard to carry sometimes. Women are scared and maybe a little reluctant to get out there again. Anyway, good luck with it...I've got squirrels to chase lol.
I also think that at our age women are not as eager as they once were.
I would say this is correct on some level, but I'd be willing to bet most are eager just not in the way he wants.
If you're single at this age then you've been through some sh*t and that baggage is hard to carry sometimes. Women are scared and maybe a little reluctant to get out there again.
We all have baggage. ALL of us. The thing is, how well do we carry it?
A shrink once told me that in her experience people aren't really in touch with their feelings and often just act without really knowing why...and then wonder why the same thing keeps happening over and over again. I think often, people aren't even aware of their baggage and therefore don't carry it well! A friend once told me that the longer you're alone the easier it becomes to stay that way...that said, he's actually seeing someone now
A friend once told me that the longer you're alone the easier it becomes to stay that way..
That's why you have to get back on the horse. Don't have ride it hard, but coffee is just fine. Small at first.
A shrink once told me that in her experience people aren't really in touch with their feelings and often just act without really knowing why...and then wonder why the same thing keeps happening over and over again.
Interesting. But things happening over and over would suggest forgetting history.
For someone that makes part of his living writing, I seem to not be clear at times. I'll try to respond to some of the thoughts.
As for squirrels, that problem has cleared up nicely and I hugely thank everyone for their focus and attempts to help.
How can I celebrate my 50th again? I CAN'T - that's my point. I'm missing out on so many couples expierence and - milestones like weddings for the kids (let's hope they don't have seconds) my parents 50th anniversary, all of these are done and over. I don't get a re-do and that's my regret. My niece has an upcoming wedding. Will I be there by myself like I was for her graduation party three years ago?
Does my profession really have that bad of a connotation? It seems to - don't get involved with a musician? Why would I not be able to meet for drinks on a Tuesday night? Why would I not be able to do dinner on Saturday? I'm doing just that this coming Saturday with a friend I sort of casually dated several years ago. It didn't work out in that way but we are still friends and I still made plans. I'm open for drinks pretty much any Tuesday. So the beliefs are not valid but perception is reality. If you guys think it's the case, they may too. Then add in I'm 7 years recovered from opiate addiction - again not at all related to music, but yet another flag for some. But I'm so much more - a firefighter/paramedic, business owner, executive director AND I play sax in bands about 90 times a year - mostly within an hour of my house. I travel out of state about a dozen times a year.
Am I really trying too hard? I may. But if that were the case why did the woman last week think I was not interested? How can I try too hard and not be interested at the same time? I am trying much harder, no doubt. But I still DB or try to. I don't chase - at least try not to. I'm not always available. I am first to get off the phone, don't respond right away. The DB principles are still deep in me. I'll continue to watch it however. You all may be right and I am trying too hard.
Reading back in this thread really helped. Some of these things I didn't even remember. A few again I think we're out of context but others were not and I'm guilty. Eye opening.
Clearly this is all really bothering me and I need a reset. I remember Ginger saying how she felt pathetic. I totally get it and feel just as pathetic. THIS IS NOT ME! Or at least never used to be. I certainly don't want it to be. I just don't know how to fix it other than to stop trying again. I don't at all think that will get me any further either / as it didn't in years past but clearly this is not working either. God I need a hug.
.
Thanks again for everyone's time. It's much appreciated.
Looks like it's time for this thread to close out and lock. Sadly, I don't think I'm done yet so, it's being continued in part 2. Hopefully I'll be back to my normal self and feeling less pathetic soon.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2729845&Board=38
