Most of the people I "knew" from earlier are over here now, maybe it's time to open something up here. I might need it in the coming days/weeks all things considered. I'll copy below what I just posted in my old "Newcomers" thread, with some edits. And don't believe for a second that just because I sound semi-rational below that I have it all figured out
I've been a hot crying mess the past week, lost 3 lbs, and can barely keep it together... but I keep trying so that's the important thing.
Ah... finding myself back here after a tough week. My relationship of six months ended last weekend. This was my first relationship since D (and also only the 2nd person I've slept with besides XH so.. a lot of emotions and attachment tied up into this one). I knew there were some problems and I went into the conversation wanting to talk about them and figure out how we could address them (because I really did love the guy, I realized) but he decided that some things were "red flags" for him and he "didn't see this working long-term."
I know I can't blame it all on myself - this was his first in-person relationship (he would meet people online through gaming and have long-distance relationships with only one or two in-person meetups) so I think our expectations about time spent together, communication, staying connected, etc. weren't quite in synch, and it was probably somewhat overwhelming for him. He sent a lot of mixed messages - he would talk about inviting me to holidays, or maybe moving in together, but then would say he wasn't sure if he wanted to stay in this same city or not and wanted to "move slowly." Ultimately I don't think we were on the same page of what we wanted and where we were in life. He had just finished his bachelor's degree in May (at age 30) and was just in his first full-time job this fall, and was very focused on spending time building that up.
I noticed I started to fall back into some of the same patterns of being a little too clingy - it started to fall apart when I got more serious about the relationship and started getting frustrated by things like only seeing him twice a week and very little contact in-between - him disappearing all night with no texts and no idea where he might be until the next day when I'd ask what he was up to.. and then I was told I was prying. The big difference from my M, though - I didn't feel like I needed to see him or talk to him all the time and didn't get all anxious about him having alone time or wanting to hang out with friends. I was moreso bothered by the fact that he just couldn't tell me before or after the fact so I'd either be left waiting wondering if he was going to get in touch with me or want to hang out, or it be a complete mystery aftewards. He didn't really want to share much about his day-to-day life and even said "This is weird for me and doesn't really seem that important - I've never had someone care about what I do before."
So, I guess I have some thinking to do there - I could have probably been more laid-back about it but after 6 months, I also felt like it was time to move forward. I don't think I am being too crazy - just need to find someone that is in synch with what I value. I felt like I did a good job of fairly communicating my wants and needs without attacking. He would tell me he understood and that my needs were important and things would adjust for awhile.. but then he'd go back to the same distant behavior.
So, back to the drawing board I guess. It's been tough. I want him back all of the time right now. But I know from DBing and this board and everything else that the best thing I can do is to let him go, and re-learn being happy on my own. He was a great guy but maybe it just wasn't the right time for either of us. If things change for him and he pulls his sh*t together and wants back in he knows where to find me.... and I know what I would want in order for it to work.
K-Girl, welcome to the board. I can no longer keep up in Newcomers, this is the comfortable place. And Claire and Maybell and Raliced and Mozza are here, too. It's a party!
Sorry on your breakup, I know it's hard, but after having been through what you have, you know you'll be OK and you have the tools to get through it. See this as a learning experience about what you want in a R, I'm sure you learned some things. Keep your heart open.
I was just pondering some dating issues I have, and mentally went through a list of who I could talk to. My "old" friends have been M as long as I was, and I don't think would be helpful. Many of my "new" friends don't date at all, they've given up after so many years of not settling with the right one. Maybe I'll just go update my own thread and spell some of it out, you guys are the best.
Lots of things to learn, for sure. You know how people say the love you put out is the love you get (or something along those lines)? When I met this guy back in July I was definitely giving off a very cautious, casual, non-committal sort of vibe. I even went so far as to text him at one point saying "I'm still trying to figure out how much to stay in touch vs. not be overwhelming, so if I seem distant I don't mean to." I was scared and kind of kept one foot out the door for the first few months - I was nervous about planning things ahead for more than a few weeks for fear he wouldn't be around. And so I think I attracted someone somewhat distant, non-committal, etc. And then when things changed and I got serious about it... I expected him to change too and I can't expect people to change that much.
Also I think I fell into finding people that were like my ex (because the whole "I don't feel like I can spend my time how I want without feeling guilty" thing came up, once again) and had the same not-so-good things. Blech.
Still lots of grieving and processing to do. When he mentioned the idea of moving in together I started to get even more invested and really thought he might be "it" and clearly that was not what he was thinking (or not consistently thinking, anyway). While I could have chilled out a little more and been less dependent on him, I also think it's a continuum and somewhere out there is someone who feels similarly to me on the "togetherness vs. individualness" scale, where I don't have to lower my expectations and needs to try and keep someone around (at least I hope so because otherwise what the heck am I doing.. may as well give up now).
And dating is part of surviving the big D, right? So I think that conversation could go here
While I could have chilled out a little more and been less dependent on him, I also think it's a continuum and somewhere out there is someone who feels similarly to me on the "togetherness vs. individualness" scale, where I don't have to lower my expectations and needs to try and keep someone around (at least I hope so because otherwise what the heck am I doing.. may as well give up now).
K, after being married for 25 years, I'm finding it all too easy to want to be more "together" than "individual". I find a guy I like and want to spend a lot of time together right off the bat. When that doesn't work out, then I feel unwanted. Something I definitely need to work on. I'm learning......
Sigh. Yep. Compounded by the fact that I was with someone who had never been in an in-person relationship much less lived with someone or was married to someone. He never had to adjust a schedule or plan ahead or think much about anything other than what he personally was doing. I was OK with working with it and being patient... up until a point and then I guess it wasn't working for either of us.
I am having a hard time remembering what I did with myself the whole year I was living on my own before I met this guy.. I must have done stuff to keep myself busy and happy but I have no idea what it was, it's like everything before him disappeared. Maybe if I read through some of my old stuff on here I can remember what the heck I was up to.
K, it's great to see you on here. I've been wondering what you were up to.
WRT the guy you just broke up with -- that's not about you, sweetie. He wasn't the right one. I've been reading a lot of dating coach blogs and the one thing they all repeat is that there are TONS of guys out there, but only ONE YOU. Remember that, and value yourself that way.
It sounds very much like you chose someone who was just not emotionally available because you're not quite there yet yourself. That's OK!! Take your time and focus on having fun and getting to know who you're spending time with, without thinking about being WITH him. Keep that foot out the door and put your focus on just getting to know your dates. Maybe even date a couple of guys, casually, at the same time! This might give you more perspective on what's out there.
I'm sorry you're hurting. I'm glad you came back here for some comfort. I've been thinking about you.
K-Girl,
Hugs. I am sorry you are hurting. It will get better. Hang in there:)
Welcome!
Sounds like you've encountered the "Love Avoidant". Google it-you'll find some articles that will make sense of what you experienced.
When I was first divorced from my husband of 24 years, I dated several men who were love avoidants. I was very confused by this until my friend sent me an article.
In retrospect, I think I was subconsciously choosing these types because I myself wasn't ready to fully move forward in a new relationship. These avoidant guys felt "safe" because they certainly weren't going to ask too much from me.
Now that I'm ready for a real relationship again, I have a boyfriend who is very present, I never have to wonder where he is or when he's going to see me.
I'm glad that you're giving us an update, KGirl, even though you're sad. It does sound like you're taking it hard. I'm wondering: is it because you lost that particular guy or because you lost a relationship? You haven't quite mentioned what you loved about him, other than the fact that he wanted to be with you. How do you know when someone does or does not meet your expectations? How do you move along if he doesn't?
It's nice to come back here
I think my friends and family are pretty tired of hearing me be sad, overanalyzing this, say how much I miss the guy (we'll call him "S")
Maybell: I agree, getting to know someone without worrying about the end result is important. I tried to do that... so I thought, but I don't know what happened. We met early July. Agreed we were exclusive three weeks later (my asking but we were going to sleep together so.. that was important to me to establish first). He was the one who asked in early October if he could call me his girlfriend, and then later mentioned me coming with him to his family's for Thanksgiving and Christmas (which did not materialize so maybe that was my warning sign). And when things got a little rough a few weeks ago, he was the one who brought up the idea of moving in together. So I definitely let him take the reins.. but I guess when I started hearing all that stuff I thought it meant we were getting serious/more involved, and I wanted more (like, back it up with your actions. Make an effort to see me more than once or twice a week).. and he backed away. sigh. Maybe I just got past that point and decided I knew what I wanted, and he just didn't get there?
kml: read into that and yep, that's what I felt was happening at the end of it all, whether you call it anxious/avoider, or pursuer/distancer. I had thought I had done a lot of work in that area and was much improved. I had my own life, still hung out with my friends regularly, didn't sacrifice my activities, etc. I thought I was ready to be really involved in someone.. but maybe not. I know I don't want to attract avoidant people again so I need to figure out what it's going to take for me to be "ready". And how to identify it earlier without investing 6 months of my life.
I think I'm being too hard on myself for being clingy/anxious/pursuing. In retrospect his behavior would have been avoidant to anyone. For example, when he mentioned moving in together might solve some of our communication/time together problems and I said that I would want to make sure we're on the same page about commitment, where this is going, etc. first and that would be a pretty serious step for me, his response was "yeah.. I don't know.. I mean I would want to live closer to downtown so I don't know how that would work. And who knows if I'll even be in this city in the near future anyway." O_o We had been in a pattern of meeting up once during the week for dinner, and then once on the weekend (always at my place.. he had a twin size bed so I couldn't stay there, another warning??) Before the move-in convo in early January, we didn't talk about what we'd do during the week until Monday, and we ended up being busy on opposing days. He never said what he was busy with, but it ended up we weren't going to see each other for a whole week. I said I'd miss him, no response from him. When it got to his "busy" days I asked what he was up to because he still never told me and he said "doing laundry."
It all came to a head then when there was again a time where he was "busy" and I asked him what he was up to that week. He said "I don't like how you make me feel when you pry into stuff. It makes me feel guilty about how I spend my time." Then he said he lied about being busy and that he really just wanted to spend more time doing work because "that's what he enjoys doing and that's what's important to him." Apparently at that time he decided this wasn't going to work because he felt like he had to make too many justifications to me.. but waited three days to tell me that and con't to text me the whole time like nothing was wrong.
So, yeah. Thinking through that he definitely had some communication issues, or issues with being close to people. I suppose his online-only relationships thus far were a convenient way to keep his distance from people. Siiiiigggghhhhh.
And Mozza - it's really too bad because there were a lot of qualities I liked about him. He was smart, funny in an endearing goofy sort of way, sensitive about things, ambitious about his work and really passionate about it, calm, patient, never really let things bother him or got upset about things, made decisions and took charge when I wasn't feeling up to deciding things, attractive and there was a lot of chemistry :), he really liked my cats. But yes, there were downsides. He was more distant than I wanted, couldn't share his day-to-day life stuff with me (like what he's doing after work?), shared very little about his past or anything serious or emotional. He seemed like he was listening and understanding my needs and said he respected them but his actions didn't back it up.
I'm taking this harder than I should because around Christmas I started thinking "maybe this is it... I found him! I don't need to date anymore!" and I was so so wrong apparently. Rarrr.
... and it's nice to have you back to over-analyze with us! You seem to be taking it normal-hard, for a six months relationship. In November-December, I dated this girl a few times and got a bit attached and when it crumbled before Christmas, I was quite sad for two weeks. And it wasn't a relationship, and we didn't even sleep together. My D taught me that it's ok to have those emotions and to process them in a healthy way, like you're doing right now.
You seem to have very good reflexes about looking for actions rather than words. Or at least in hindsight ;-) It's harder in the moment because actions might not tell us what we want to hear. Maybe that's what you need to work on: facing hard truths told by your partner's actions. And I think it's a good thing that you clarified your expectations to him. You say you "lost" six months (not sure I agree) but it would have been much longer otherwise.
.. something I did not share because I am sort of embarrassed that it bothers me, but is certainly contributing to all this, is that I found out yesterday via mutual friends that XH has a girlfriend. She's 24, he took her to a fancy benefit ball over the weekend, and apparently she posted a picture of them saying he was her "prince" and he responded that she was his "princess." BARF. Obviously he's going to date again, it's just somewhat jarring because he was so insistent he needed to find himself and didn't want relationship-type obligations. Maybe she is young enough to put up with his cr*p and think he's super cool because he has a house and a car *end rant*.
When I was 30 I met a 24 year old girl and she felt too young for me. Maybe now that I'm 36 I could see 30, but 24? She was going out for happy hours with friends she went to college with. I guess if you're looking for someone that's impressed with a permanent address and likes from single guys on facebook that's ok...
I posted this on another thread not long ago:
I'm not ready to date, but when that day comes I will be looking at people's character first and foremost. Not looks, not money, not 'baggage'...but whether they will be able to manage through a lifelong commitment. I'm simply not interested in investing in someone I don't have reason to believe will be there for the count. These days I don't think many women will pass that test, by doing that you are already in the top 5%. And the best part is that you will attract people that value those characteristics, so they will hopefully have them in return to you, so you don't hav.e to go through this crap again.
Personally I'm in favor of you taking some time off of dating. I believe in the 1 year minimum rule from when the D is final. Seems you were dating pretty quick. I know you'd been separated for a year, but there are a lot of reasons why they don't start the clock until the ink is dried from a emotional closure standpoint. I'm sorry you're a little down right now, can you take some time to yourself to just be ok on your own for a bit?
Either way, thanks for coming back. I missed seeing you around. Please keep updating us from time to time!
Thanks for stopping by, Zues! Yes, I'm thinking now maybe I started dating too quickly. I need to get back to a place (or maybe I was never there) of being perfectly fine and happy on my own. I need to figure out how to do that, though, so if anyone has tips please share. Even though I was living on my own for a year before I started looking for people online, it was only a few days after D was final, and looking back at my old posts I was still pretty obsessed about my XH/finding answers/being reactive about him right up until the D. Meeting someone new helped me forget about him for awhile but the fact that I was so upset by XH's new GF I think shows there's some stuff I still need to figure out....
...and, stuff about myself too in terms of how to interact with people appropriately - the right mix of interdependence and independence. I thought I had really conquered the codependency/clingy thing but maybe wanting to hear from someone via text everyday is still too much, or that I want someone to fill me in on what they're up to. Maybe it's just hard because when you're M that's what you do (you don't just make plans with other people or go to a work function after work without telling your partner - it's not that you're asking permission, it's just you fill them in so they know not to you dinner or wonder what happened to you!) Maybe I shouldn't start expecting that of people before we live together - I see it as a precursor (can they show me they're capable of this before we take that next step?) but maybe most/normal people see it as suffocating.
I definitely also want to find someone that is going to be in it for the long term. I'm just not sure how to figure that out. I feel like you start investing a lot of yourself within 5, 6, 7 dates (especially if you're going to sleep with them by that time) but you really can't know THAT much about their philosophy on commitment and if they'll stick around unless you come with like a questionnaire. I guess I had a red flag on that from XBF a month or so ago but I ignored it.. because there were still so many good things, so I thought. WHen he mentioned moving in we had a little conversation about relationships, etc.
K: My theory or viewpoint on relationships or commitment is that you're not going to feel the same about someone every day, or even like how you did when you first met. But you're committing to love that person and to work through things with them even through the tough times - you're making a choice every day to still love them. That's how I feel at least.
XBF: But what if you're really unhappy?
K: Well.. then I would hope the unhappy person would talk with the other person about what they're unhappy about and communicate and do everything they can to work towards a resolution before calling it quits.
XBF: Ah, so you wouldn't want to be blindsided by someone.
Not quite but... yeah. Seems we had different ideas about what "commitment" looked like
How are you doing, KGirl? Feeling better? What's going on?
Not doing well. Not sure if it's an appropriate amount of not doing well, or not, considering this is the only time I've been dumped as an adult aside from XH (and obviously that's a whole different level of feelings..)
It's been two weeks and I still cry every day, sometimes several times a day. It's hard to be motivated to do things like go out with friends, or clean my apartment, or cook. I've been eating a lot of cereal.
For better or for worse I sent XBF an email on Tuesday as sort of a "love actually" moment (where the guy is outside kiera knightly's place and basically says he loves her but knows she is married now, just wanted to lay it to rest, etc.) I said some of the things I loved about him, how I was sorry for things I did that hurt or pressured him and how I can't take back the past but at least I recognize some patterns I keep falling into, and wished him well on a job promotion he applied for.
To my surprise (dismay?) he wrote back. I was fully prepared for no answer. And he wrote nice things... said that I was warm and caring and he was happy to have spent time with someone who showed her true self, and that he had never felt as stable in his life as he did with me. But then said something like "I feel this experience will help us be better stronger people" - the typical BS answer of "this is for the best." Then he said "I did get an email back about my application". I took the bait and wrote just one line - "What a cliffhanger! Did you get an interview?"........ no responses.
Until last night and then I just lost it again. My mom and I were at my sister's house sitting and just watching TV. We talked about this a little bit but she didn't want to talk about it much, said "If you start crying I'll start crying, don't cry!" Thanks mom. Then at like 10pm she says "Do you want to hear some news about XBF?" Proceeds to tell me he did get his promotion. I ask her how she knows that, she says they were texting. She shows me a convo that goes something like this:
Mom: Hey
XBF: Hi hi
Mom: I'm cat sitting at (sister's) house.. the cat doesn't want to come by me though
XBF: probably being a scaredy cat, he never came out when I was there that time
Mom: yeah, I guess. How is your job?
XBF: good, I got offered a promotion on Friday and am signing the paperwork on Monday!
So... WTF is this? First of all I told her I didn't really want to hear about their conversations because it just reopens the wound again (not my place to forbid texting, I suppose). Second, how is it that he can have conversation with her, that he doesn't need to have (like beyond politeness) but can't respond to me/doesn't want to talk to me at all? Is he trying to get back in with me somehow? Is he just being nice. It's not like they were close and maintaining some sort of relationship, they met ONCE in person and had some occasional texts about random things (mostly to tease me.. like "your mom is telling me all your embarrassing childhood stories!") And in DB I think there's a line about how they will try to get back with your friends and family first, before you, so that's on my mind when it shouldn't be. I'm not trying to DB this, it doesn't make sense to do so for a 6 month R.
I DONT GET IT. And it's so hard. My rational part of my brain knows he wasn't able to give me what I wanted in an R right now and that doesn't change overnight. He didn't say ILY (and I'm guessing didn't feel it), acknowledged we weren't on the same page and he "wasn't where I was", couldn't do things like inconvenience himself or change his schedule for me when I did regularly, couldn't handle an adult relationship by talking about things and instead just ran away, he felt like I was "prying" when I'd ask him what he was up to in a given week, didn't care about not seeing me for a whole week, etc. Many signs of emotional unavailability. But yet the other part of my brain wants him so bad. He checked off so many of the traits/preferences I was looking for in someone. I combed through so many online dating profiles before finding him. He seems to think very positively of me so why doesn't he want to be with me??
UGH. I can't keep going on like this - I'm not getting much done at work or at home, I feel like I've exhausted my friend's patience analyzing and talking about this. It's hard for me to understand why he'd dump me considering I was the first in-person relationship he'd ever had, so you'd think that'd be pretty good for him - I do feel like I am a pretty great person and he'd be hard-pressed to find someone who was willing to give him patience and time to the extent I did. It feels like BD all over again.
I almost want to give you some tough love, K. Remind you that this is a learning experience and the right guy is out there for you. Suggest that perhaps getting dumped by XBF is as much about the rejection you felt from your XH? And remind you to set your sights FORWARD.
That said, it's true that when you've been partnered for as long as you were prior to your marriage and during it that it can be hard to remember that things are worthwhile when you're on your own, too. You did so well last year pulling yourself together, getting the cat, the car, etc. What if you set some kind of goal for yourself, like a bucket list item, and enlist another single friend to join you in it?
You've got to feel what you feel, but you've got to have a path forward, too. It's up to you to forge that path.
WRT to the emails and texts, I would say... they mean nothing. They're just words. He's not trying to get back with you, he just wants to be friendly. Nobody likes knowing they've left destruction in their wake, especially when the failure of the relationship is their own fault.
I am sending you warm thoughts and hugs, my dear. Grieve like you need to and then be MIGHTY.
I DO need tough love, 2x4's, etc. so please throw them all at me! Yes, this rejection is stirring up a lot of feelings about the previous rejection, and feeling like something is wrong with me, given that the reasons told to me were so similar.. which makes it easy to think it's about ME, even though my IRL friends tell me constantly this guy was not ready for an adult relationship. If he left me because of one thing I said on one day without even talking about it, he wasn't really in it for the long haul. In the week before the breakup I have text convos with my friends wondering if this was going to work, noting that I needed more from him if it was going to, etc. so obviously it was on my mind.. but he got to it before I was ready so that makes it worse, I guess. I'm also struggling getting past feeling like I "wasted" a part of myself by sleeping with this guy (because apparently I have some hangups on that and just the thought of needing to sleep with more people before I get to the one I'd marry makes me want to throw up...) but I need to remember that I couldn't have known then what would happen now, and at the time I was fine with that decision.
Yes, I did accomplish a lot of things last year on my own! I don't have a big goal in mind right now but a few smaller things - going to look into volunteering either at the library or humane society, and I have an art/decor project that's been sitting around from before BD that I would like to finish and get on the wall. I've been really good about going to the gym the past two weeks and would like to lose the weight I've gained since BD. I have gift cards from Christmas that I was going to use to go places w/ XBF but instead I'll find friends to try those places with. And start thinking about a place I could travel - someplace new and not Vegas, perhaps.
What is a normal length of time to be grieving (like the high-level version - crying every day, thinking about him at least every hour, etc.) - obviously it's going to vary for everyone but at one point should I be concerned that this is past the point of grief and a bigger issue like depression? Mornings are the hardest, I've realized. I'll wake up and after a second or two it will hit me: "Sh*t... he's gone. I'm not going to see him today or talk to him or text with him. And probably never again" and then I have a lot of trouble getting out of bed. I can try and tell myself all the rational reasons why this would be a good thing by emotions get in the way. It gets better by the the end of the day once I've gone to work, read a couple of articles I've bookmarked to remind myself that he wasn't actually involved in the R like I was, etc. but then it starts all over the next morning. I didn't experience this with XH because by the time I moved out, I was so stressed from seeing him all the time that I was looking FORWARD to not having him be a part of my daily life. With XBF it's the opposite - he became a part of my life and then abruptly ended without much warning or lead-up.
If the grief from XH is being carried into the grief over XBF, then it may take a while since you didn't go all the way through it. Though it also sounds a bit like depression, which would be normal all things considered. Treat it the same way you treated the break up of the marriage and get help if you need it. But counter those early morning thoughts -- if you think, "I'm not going to see him today," then follow it up with "I wonder who I will see?"
Also, may I suggest some gratitude exercises? You seem to be focusing on what's missing from your life at the moment. What are you grateful for? Make a list, every day.
Yes, this rejection is stirring up a lot of feelings about the previous rejection, and feeling like something is wrong with me, given that the reasons told to me were so similar.. which makes it easy to think it's about ME, even though my IRL friends tell me constantly this guy was not ready for an adult relationship.
Neither the break up of your marriage nor the rush offstage of XBF has to do with there being something wrong with you -- except that, for whatever reason, you have a tendency to pick guys who are not emotionally available. This is a puzzle to be sorted out, an opportunity for learning about yourself and healing wounds that are older than either of those relationships.
Onwards, KGirl, Onwards!!!
Oh, it's hard to read about such pain. I'm sorry KGirl you're hurting... I can feel it through the screen. Grieve all you need. I remember two months after BD, I asked my IC why I was still in such pain and he raised his eyebrows "It's only been two months". Just today, as I feel over my WW for months, I had a teary moment as I replayed part of our breakup in my head. So after a couple of weeks, you're really not at the stage where this has been going on for too long. What matters is your trajectory: are you doing things to get better and, if so, is it working, little by little? I do get the sense that you need to do a little more and remember: do things that you love. Don't do stuff you feel you have to do, give yourself permission for some things. Call your favorite friends, cook something amazing, visit your favorite park.
About getting out of bed: do you have something you look forward to? It's a tip for everyday life, but it's even more important when you feel down.
About sex: it's perfectly ok to decide you don't want to sleep with many men, but it's not ok to think that you're giving away a part of yourself when you do. You don't. I'm not sure where this idea comes from, but it would be interesting to explore. Sex can also enhance your life, even after the partner is gone, as you've discovered things about it and yourself, as you come better equipped into the next relationship (I refer to expectations more than techniques). If you keep thinking that you "lose" every time you have a new partner, you'll have difficulties entering healthy relationships and you'll cling to sexual partners if only for fear of having another. Perhaps you could read about positive sex online, as part of your post-breakup.
Oh and you can have a much higher bar for yourself than "He should stay with me because he's never had a real-life relationship before"! Don't you dare thinking that you pick up the scraps! In fact, it makes me fear that you picked him in part because you thought he would be a "safe" choice who wouldn't leave you given his history. Well, lesson learned. Now aim for the stars!
You've gotten over a much harder breakup before, you'll get over this one. Just be patient with yourself.
Thanks, all.
Yes, I see a pattern of being interested in emotionally unavailable/avoidant people. Whether that's because I'M avoidant, I don't know.. or something else. As you said Mozza, I think I see these people as a "safe" choice because they don't know much else and I feel like they'd be grateful to have me, so surely they wouldn't leave. When I met XBF he was definitely going through a lot of "transitions to adulthood" - just finished school, was unemployed and still looking for a full-time job, a month after we met he moved into his own apartment after having a roommate for 5 years. I think that was appealing - that I could "help" him. But he seemed to mostly have it together so he wasn't annoying or needy. In fact, I would offer to help him with stuff and he would usually refuse. I did get scared by a lot of the guys online who seemed out of my league or like I "couldn't keep up" with them - the well-traveled, witty, worldly sorts. The slightly nerdy awkward ones (XBF) seemed less scary. On our third time hanging out we talked a little about past relationships and that's when XBF revealed his long-distance relationship history and I remember thinking "whew! he's not more experienced than me in this area. I can handle this." I felt like I was doing the right things - going slowly, etc. but maybe in not revealing all of my vulnerable-ness and not being as trusting or open right away, I kept something going that would have ended much earlier had I opened my true self to him right away (and scared him away! ha).
I have an appt w/ a new IC on March 10 so hopefully I can hold out until then to analyze this more. I could have gotten in earlier w/ my previous IC but I don't know that that would be helpful any more. I felt like our conversations always ended in him saying "what you wanted and how you reacted seems perfectly reasonable to me." Maybe so for "normal" relationships but not for these emotionally unavailable people.
As for my trajectory? Not sure. I think the first week or so I was still in denial- convinced he would call any day, regret his decision, etc. So it took a bit to really acknowledge it was happening and start to accept he wasn't coming back.
A plan I think I could follow because it's logical - identify what I'm missing about XBF - not just traits or preferences, but how did it make me feel? and then second, how can I get those feelings that I'm missing through other means? For example, I miss being able to suggest places for dinner or outings w/out worrying if someone would agree or not, because I felt comfortable with him. I could do the same w/ friends and if they really don't want to go, go by myself so I can still do those things.
Mozza - yep, totally see what you're saying about clinging to people for fear of avoiding more sexual partners. This is the exact thing I'm afraid to encounter. Once I get to that point I am IN and have a hard time letting go until I feel like we've really tried everything possible to make it work. It's not as if I grew up religious or particularly conservative. But, in high school I had the idea that I was going to wait until marriage to have sex... then XH and I ended up doing so after a year but with the idea that we were "bound to stay together so it was OK." And I guess that's part of what kept our on again, off again thing going for the next 10+ years. I guess I feel really vulnerable when I get to that point and get really attached and invest a lot of emotion in it, so the more it happens, the more I feel like it's not meaningful anymore, which makes me sad? *shrug* it's not that I don't enjoy it and have fun, I just want it to be under specific circumstances, in a meaningful committed relationship that has the potential to be long term which seems like an impossible thing to ask for in today's culture. Perhaps another IC topic. Both my sisters are in long term relationships with their high school sweethearts. All my close friends only had 3-4 partners before getting married. It's all that I really know.
For those of you who had WAHs/WAWs that up and left or moved out:
How did you cope with missing them? Like knowing you wouldn't be going out to dinner or dates anymore, or just texting/talking on the phone without it being just about logistics, or not seeing them daily? I did not have feelings like this with XH and this constant desire to see/text/talk to/look up XBF is killing me right now, despite all of my rational knowledge of why he may not have been what I needed. With XH we lived together for 6 months after BD and by that time I was so stressed and exhausted that I was HAPPY to not see him anymore. Not so with XBF - he just ghosted out of my life. How do you deal with that part of it?
I do have some experience with that and by "experience", I mean painful memories...
I can't reinvent the wheel: the short-term solution is GAL. You need to keep busy to get your mind off of him. With time on your hand, alone at home, you have nothing to do but stare at the missing piece in your life. If you're window-shopping, jogging, dining out, watching a movie at a theater, you won't have the idle thumbs that beg to text.
Now here's something that didn't become clear to me until several months after BD: you can do things you enjoy. At first, I just tried to keep busy but I can't say that my heart was in it. Then I realized that I needed to do things I wanted to do. So I'd either pick my favorite things or stuff I hadn't given myself permission before. All of a sudden, I wanted to GAL and it became much easier.
How about you give us a short list of 5 things you'd like to do as GAL? Not things that are obvious or within your reach, but really things that you WANT to do. Take a few minutes (or days) to dig deep inside of you. Make sure that you're enthusiastic about all five.
I did get scared by a lot of the guys online who seemed out of my league or like I "couldn't keep up" with them - the well-traveled, witty, worldly sorts.
MAJOR ALERT! But you knew we'd pick up on this
These guys ARE the ones you need to go after. You have to seek that feeling of "OMG, this is too good to be true! Why is he interested in me?! He's amazing!" You may not "keep up" (?) with a few at first, but who cares: it's just a few email exchanges or at worst a couple of dates. Isn't that worth it to finally catch the Grand Prize?
I can't stress this enough: go for it, chase your dreams, seek the too-good-for-me stuff. You've tried to settle for safe and look where it got you. Did it work in giving you the stable relationship you're craving? There is no safe solution in love. The best you can do is to reach for the stars until you meet someone who loves you just as much, not because they have no alternative, but because they want YOU. Not only these guys are out there, but right this minute, they doubt you even exist, as much as you doubt their existence.
My history is similar to yours. WW was my third girlfriend and sexual partner. I had signed a lease with all the women I had sex with... I hope I know where you're coming from. In my particular case, it lead me to think that I couldn't find my perfect match, that WW was an oddity and that, while she must have made a mistake in choosing me, I should enjoy it. As you can imagine, when she left me, I was devastated not only because I lost her, but because I lost someone at all. It was not an easy path for me to find someone else. I had no confidence with women. Also, she left with some of my self-worth because I thought that being with her gave me some social standing, some worth in the eyes of people and also mine.
In my case, my therapy was the flirting experiment, as you may recall. I read books and got myself out there. It gradually led to dating. And about a month ago, I met someone with whom I'd like to commit. My relationship with women in general has changed a lot and I've elevated my standards, with regards to meeting my expectations. It meant rejecting women that were not meeting my criteria, which was really not easy, but super-affirming for me. I handled rejection much better too.
This may not be the path you need to take, but I suspect it's the destination you need to go to: a place where you are choosy and willing to do what it takes to find the right person.
I guess I feel really vulnerable when I get to that point and get really attached and invest a lot of emotion in it, so the more it happens, the more I feel like it's not meaningful anymore, which makes me sad? *shrug* it's not that I don't enjoy it and have fun, I just want it to be under specific circumstances, in a meaningful committed relationship that has the potential to be long term which seems like an impossible thing to ask for in today's culture.
There's nothing wrong with wanting to limit the number of partners that you have. I'm less convinced about the impact it has on any given committed relationship that you might have.
Th desire and connection I had with WW through sex was amazing. We'd do it for hours, hold each other thight, look into each other's eyes, confess our feelings, etc. It's not the low number of partners that made sex special, almost sacred: it was the bond that we had. It had to be exclusive at that moment, but it didn't matter what we lived before. I wanted her to know that I was all there, in that moment, with her. And that she was with me.
So you can be a serial monogamist: no need to rush to bed, no casual sex, no dating multiple people. But make each relationship special knowing that what makes it special is what you invest. And the love you invest with whoever you choose is not lost. Your tank will be full if you need to find someone else.
I did get scared by a lot of the guys online who seemed out of my league or like I "couldn't keep up" with them - the well-traveled, witty, worldly sorts. The slightly nerdy awkward ones (XBF) seemed less scary.
KGirls, I've expressed a couple times here that I was intimidated by a potential date. I've been out with a guy who makes a very nice living filming EDM concerts all over the globe, a Pulitzer-prize winning journalist, and a career Marine officer whose name pops up on Google pretty readily. I was intimated by all of them, but I found out they are just people. They may have had different experiences than you and I, but as the journalist pointed out, that's part of the appeal. Who wants to date himself?
Thanks Sunny and Mozza for checking in. XBF definitely didn't seem intimidating in a social/education/etc. sort of way, but I did feel like he was more attractive and often wondered why'd say I was beautiful, sexy, etc. It's hard now not to think "I knew it was too good to be true, he didn't really mean it!" Sigh. I'm finally reading Mindset by Carol Dweck and I know that is very fixed mindset of me. I need to work on my growth mindset in terms of my own capabilities and self-esteem. But I fear in relationships and how I see significant others, my growth mindset is TOO big, to a fault - in a growth mindset you believe that people can change and interactions, personality, etc. are not fixed. Fixed mindset people tend to say things in relationships like "well this is just the way they are and people don't change, guess we'll call it quits." I think I get too caught up in the potential or idea that if we can communicate and problem solve, it will work, and believe that people can drastically change (or will want to) when they cannot or will not.
I'll ponder the 5 GAL things. It does feel like just going through the motions right now when I do stuff.. it all has this undercurrent of "but XBF is gone, I won't be able to share this with him later, what's the point." Right now all I feel like doing is 1) sleeping, 2) turning my heat up to 70 degrees and cuddling under all my blankets, 3) withdrawing from people, 4) watching mindless TV so I don't have to think about anything. I'm trying not to get stuck in those things, though. Going to a friend's for dinner, been bugging another friend about going to see Pride + Prejudice + Zombies.
Still wondering what I can learn from this and how to improve myself. Be more patient with people and give them space for a relationship to build? To what point? I really have no idea. I guess I just have to hope that there is someone out there that will be on the same pace I am and be "all in" like I am with them.
Still wondering what I can learn from this and how to improve myself.
I didn't see this last paragraph coming. Your previous two paragraphs are all about what you can learn from this experience. You talk about improving your self-esteem and that's a big one. It will make a world of difference in your life when you realize who you are and what you're worth. This is how you'll choose better people but also how you'll be better equipped to deal with the difficulties. I hope you won't be on the lookout only for people who don't quit. While it's certainly a quality, it's just one of many and you should keep your own options open, including that of leaving when all else fails, especially in a recent relationship. You shouldn't find yourself, again, thinking "Well, this one's a catch because he won't leave me". He should be a catch because he's funny, sexy, patient and whatnot AND he chose you despite having a thousand options.
I look forward to hearing about your 5 exciting GAL. Your lack of GAL right now is directly related to your lack of motivation for GAL. It's like exercise: when you don't do any, it seems very hard. When you grow the habit, it's easy. The hardest step to take is the first.
I read this line recently: The best time to work on your marriage is when you're single. Something to ponder.
Maybe this feels harder because there's no hope like there was when I was "DBing" : /
Re: learn from the experience. I get caught up in these terrible awful thoughts and feelings where I feel like the biggest failure ever and I don't know what to do with them because I don't feel like I have the information to figure out a response or an answer. It's very reminiscent of times w/ XH where I don't feel like I really understood what happened, don't know why they left me, wish I knew the reasons (lack of closure?) I wonder:
-what the he** is wrong with me that people don't see value in communicating with me when they're unhappy and think it's best to just leave? I have a master's degree in social work, and do counseling for a living, it's not like I refuse to talk through stuff with people - quite the opposite.
-why am I so suffocating to people?
-do I intentionally create drama and sabotage good things?
-am I way over-expecting things of people? why?
-how can I tell if people are going to crap like this on me when they seem good at first? I mean, I have a text from XBF from a day I was stressing about what we were gonna do after work (from a month or so in) that says "Don't worry, K, we always figure it out together. even if there were zombies." How can you trust people when they go back on what they've said?
I honestly can't make sense of it right now. My friends say that I didn't do anything, he just couldn't handle an adult relationship and what it takes to be in one, but they only know my side of the story, so they can't really know. He said I made him feel guilty and pressured - but why? They say I need to be able to put myself out there and be vulnerable if I want to find someone who can give that back but how do you do that when people keep hurting you?
KGirl, I have been reading you posts and the dialogue you have been having with Mozza, with much interest. It's like you have read my mind regarding you recent BF. I am dealing with a similar sitch with a guy I have been seeing on and off. He is someone I could let myself fall for, if I didn't keep things emotionally in check for myself.
I have been experiencing very similar things with dating, with my esteem and self worth and who I am attracted and who and how I would like to be in a relationship with.
You are asking lots of the same questions I have been asking to myself and on this board. I too am a social worker, and frankly I don't get it either. I often think of the adage those who can't do, teach! (please do think I am mean you!)
Anyway KGirl, thanks for posting, it is nice to see someone dealing with similar issues to me. I will read you posts with interest.
Much love to you on this part of your journey.
JellyBxxx
You seem to take an awful lot of responsibility for what other people do. If I read you correctly, you think that a grown man who never had a real life relationship left you after six months because of your behavior. I'd say it was very likely to happen and I doubt that he will be able to hold on to his next few relationships. It's not what you want to hear, and I'm sure you had good moments with him, but it seems to me like you dodged a bullet. Having him return doesn't sound like a good scenario for you, not for your next 50 years. Anyone should have higher standards for a relationship than someone who never says I love you in six months and is bothered to even share what he does. You were not asking for too much and, even if you were, you should find someone who's willing to share as much as you will. Set your sights on this.
The larger issue remains this impression that you can control your relationships if you just act right. You don't. People have free will, they have issues, baggage, desires, wants. And it changes all the time, sometimes during a subway ride, sometimes at the top of the Kilimanjaro, sometimes while we sleep.
It seems to me that you have a great opportunity to work on yourself, maybe better than at BD. I'd venture to say that the pain you feel right now is mostly due to your personal issues, more than the loss of a particular relationship. This idea that it's all your fault, it needs to go. This idea that things can be guaranteed for life, it needs to go. This idea that making love with someone is giving away a part of you, it needs to go. This idea that you're looking for a needy partner, it needs to go.
There are far needier people than you out there who are in committed relationship. And many independent people beyond your imagination (separate houses! separate holidays! open relationships!) also. Your basic problem seems to be self-acceptance. Once you're comfortable with who you are, you can look for someone who matches, rather than going after a generic profile of a needy person that is unlikely to leave you for lack of options or courage.
Have you read Codependent no more? I haven't but it seems often referred to around here and maybe it would be relevant to your current situation. Don't waste this crisis.
KGirl, why do you keep thinking YOU're the problem? You have friends who care about you, right? Do you feel like you create drama in those relationships?
Hi Maybell! Hmm... interesting question. I have very different expectations (uh oh, danger word)? of my friend relationships and as such I rarely, if ever, would be "dramatic" - and by that I mean bring up something that's bothering me and cause a tiff. I have one friend who I know is not very reliable in terms of plans or being there when needed so I just don't rely on her for that - this became apparent when we all agreed to go to a formal dance in college and then she left an hour in, and when I talked to her afterwards about how I was upset that she agreed to go and then ditched me, she started crying and saying "I don't know what you want from me! Why are you being so mean to me!" So yeah, if we end up hanging out I consider that a bonus. Re: other friends, we don't always communicate daily, and it's not unusual for us to go several weeks or longer until we actually see each other, and that's fine with me. They are also very reliable when we do interact, though - they always follow through on what they say, they plan things in advance, we check in the day of to make sure things are still on, when we do talk they ask me about my day and what I'm up to, etc. I just don't .. rely? on them as much for regular interaction as I do with romantic partners (and apparently my romantic partners have been less-than-reliable). I guess I expect more from a partner (than I do my friends) and maybe that's the root of it?
Mozza - sigh. The rational part of me (and everyone else in my life) completely agrees with you. I've been doing a lot of reading about avoidant personalities in relationships, emotional unavailability, "future fakers" (people who reference future plans but then don't follow through when they realize they can't, and pretend like they didn't say that), etc. and it fits him in a lot of ways.. minus the overtly mean/narcissistic parts. He was never mean or rude, but maybe just didn't have the capacity. I'm just having trouble fully believing it for some reason. Like you said, I still have this belief that if I just try hard enough and do the right things then it'll go how I want it to. Or that if I was being the best partner I could be, then he'd be able to grow into a good partner as well. And if I truly acknowledge it wasn't a good fit, then I'm mad at myself for getting so invested in him and falling in love with him. I have several codependency books and read them quite a bit last fall/spring, but the last time I've looked at them was in September. I guess once I got involved in a relationship it all flew out of my brain. Time to revisit, especially the parts about healthy relationships and coping with rejection - "codependency for dummies" as a whole chapter on relationships which has been helpful.
Re: GAL - I've been thinking about a side gig, like a few 6-8 hour shifts a month. It's pretty common among my colleagues since we don't get paid very much, but we have nights/weekends free and quite a few vacation days... and people will usually pick a place they like to shop at so they get an employee discount. World Market or Bath and Body Works sounds appealing
I definitely have a B&BW candle addiction.
Hi KGirl, I'm sorry you're having a tough time. One thing I noticed at my DRW was that people often started dating, when perhaps it was too soon for them. The new R didn't work out and they then really started to process the whole thing - end of the M, the recent break up and so on. It isn't easy, but it is needed I think.
DRW means divorce recovery workshop and I found this really helpful. There are also rebuilding seminars and I wonder if you might benefit from attending one? Maybe google them both to see what is happening in your area?
I would second Mozza on the Codependent no more book. I'm reading that atm and it popped into my head when reading your stuff above. A theme to explore would be why your recent BF appealed to you (ie: what need in you he seemed to meet) and why you would accept a 'lesser than' R with him (no ILYs and so on.)
I think the biggest thing for me to look for in a new partner going forwards is emotional maturity. I'm working on this within myself and would hope to meet someone that is doing or has done the same.
Can I also suggest you have a look at the TED talks and/or books by Brene Brown? She is helpful on the 'am I enough' theme.
In a way KGirl (whilst I know it hurts) I think it is good you are back here and in time to come I think you may look back on this time and see - yes, I really needed that.
Do keep posting my friend and take care xx
Hi Sotto! Interesting question. I have the book from the people who created the divorce recovery/rebuilding seminars ("Rebuilding After Your Relationship Ends" - by Fischer, I think) but perhaps time to visit that as well. I looked up the seminars and there are some in my area. TBH though reading through the descriptions and whatnot my first reaction was "I'm so done with that time of my life, I have no desire to revisit it." I'm not sure if that means I've done what I need to do from the D itself (and right now it's this most recent relationship that's the focus of my anguish) or if I'm kidding myself.
Still have therapy starting in March so perhaps that will help shed some insight. It will be good to have a third party to hash through this. Even today on the drive home I found myself starting to cry when I realized that only two weeks before he dumped he, he told me he was really happy being with me and that while my needs might be different than his, that didn't mean they weren't important, and that he would listen to me and do his best to understand me. So how does one get from that to two weeks later saying "I don't like when you pry for information, it makes me feel guilty about how I spend my time, and this was a red flag - I don't see this working long term." WTF? It's hard to accept that I will likely never understand.
Been reading some articles on a different site about being a blame absorber. I can definitely recognize this in myself, in a lot of places and situations:
"If you spend your life being a blame absorber, feeling ashamed over crappy things that other people have done, wondering “Why me? Why wasn’t I good enough for a jackass or even an abuser? What was wrong with me that I was turned down in 1983?” and other such things that basically say “I know there is something wrong with me why all of this stuff is happening”, you’re on the flipside of the ego issue – you make everything about you to persist in an identity that says “I’m not good enough.”...
You take full responsibility for the failure of the relationship while also taking full responsibility for trying to make the relationship a success...
You can go up, down, and round about it but their actions have never been about you. Their actions are about them. You can only enable existing behaviour and character by offering yourself up as a doormat and staying instead of walking....
It doesn’t matter what you say or do, if someone is unavailable, they and only they can change it. If they hang around dipping in and out of your life, getting an ego stroke, shag etc, after they’ve said that they couldn’t give you what you want, their lack of commitment isn’t down to you."
Upon further reflection.. I think there were signs there. I either just chose to ignore them (probably because once I had slept with him I wanted to justify staying with him, and especially as more time passed) or didn't put two and two together. XBF was very reluctant to talk about past relationships when I asked some low-key questions three months in - for example, he said his last LDR/online thing "wasn't good" for him and was very vague.. then when she texted him out of the blue one day he said he had to "be careful because she will try to get information and use it against me." what?? but now when I read "avoidants fear intimacy because they fear being used, controlled, or manipulated if they share themselves with someone else." Hmm... so I need to be better at keeping warning signs in my mind up front, believing them, and making decisions accordingly. And hold off on getting physical with people until I've got a clearer idea of the direction things are going so I don't get bonded too early.
Your last paragraph says it all! You're on the right track.
Widowed friend of mine just got out of a 6 mos relationship. He looked good on paper but the red flags were there from the start. He was very interested for the first couple of months, then started to pull back. He actually said "I'm superficial" and "I like to gossip"! (This is a fifty year old man). I kept telling my friend that he was broke, she kept trying to assume that he had some savings from some previous success; nope, turns out he has $15k in credit card debt that he will never be able to pay off, and no plans to make more money so he can get ahead.
I'm no money snob, but my friend barely keeps her own family afloat, she can't afford to date a guy who is a financial disaster. And a guy who reaches fifty with no assets and credit card debt, AND no proactive plan to remedy his situation, is not an adult. And he'll be eating cat food in retirement.
I'm trying! But still very much have these negative feelings about being too inquisitive and clingy - that at this stage I didn't need to know everything he was doing and I put too much pressure on him (and therefore, I managed to ruin a good thing and even if I find someone else I'll ruin that too
). But where's the line? I didn't want to know or need to know everything he's doing every minute of every day. But I feel like in normal conversation things come up like "I'm going to dinner w/ my coworkers on Thursday, one is having a show in an art gallery! should be fun" or "hey I'm gonna be busy all night doing a work project so if you text me I'll answer at 10pm". Or is even asking for that too much 6 months in? Sigh. I feel like my boundaries and expectations are all out of wack coming from a long-term, live-in relationship.
My current boyfriend calls me every morning at 7:00 to say good morning. We text a few time throughout our busy days, usually talk briefly by phone once or twice to say hi. He's usually working in the evening when I'm off work, but he'll usually check in by phone or stop by for a hug in between clients.
Everybody's different but I appreciate his transparency, I usually know what he's up to because it comes up naturally in the course of our daily conversation. He's been like this since the beginning.
So no, you're not expecting too much; just stay away from avoidant guys!
^^ thanks for that. I know it's only one example but hearing things like that help me feel a little less crazy. I mean, it was not uncommon that XBF and I would have a real-time text convo, I'd say "oh it's late, I should go to bed! goodnight (kiss face emoji)" and he wouldn't even write goodnight back. I just want a "goodnight" too! ugh. I guess when XBF was like this in the beginning I chalked it up to it just being the beginning, but I should be more careful about assuming things will progress as they go.
KGirl, I read your previous posts a few months ago because your story had some similarities to mine and we tend to over analyze things in the same way (writing that sentence makes me feel a little creepy though). I was inspired by your update in the fall, and came back here for the first time in a long time and ended up seeing your most recent post.
All I can say is that your exbf has some serious issues. It's probably a lot easier to see it from the outside, but his behavior would make many people feel crazy. What kind of boyfriend won't even tell you what he's up to? Thats beyond secretive, and it would make me feel like he's hiding something. It's not you, you're not overly clingy or crazy. His secrecy is a huge red flag.
I'm just in the texting stage with a guy I like, and I know what his workweek is like, what he's doing right now, and where he's going for his vacatuon. And we've only been flirting for a few weeks. How else do you get to know somebody? What else do you talk about?
Hi TD! I went to read your stuff, looks like you haven't posted in awhile, hopefully that's a good thing. Did you resolve things w/ your dog? Giving up the cat H and I had was a big thing for me in our D. Ultimately I decided the cat liked H better, so it made sense for her to stay with him... and I adopted my own cat. And then in December I got a second cat (which, I am sort of regretting now because they have been challenging together. XBF loves cats and at the time he was having so much fun entertaining my first cat I apparently thought it would be good to have another one and I started seeing us as a family...poor foresight on my part).
That's why it's good to come here, to have some outside perspective
I mean, there are things I think I could have done differently that I'm beating myself up for right now. Like, maybe we should have had some of these intense conversations on the phone or in person instead of via texting, maybe I could have questioned him less and kept working on GAL and having my own life so that I didn't really care what he was up to. I'm getting feedback from other sources that I was expecting too much for him to elaborate on being "busy" at the six month mark and that if we couldn't see each other for a whole week, so be it, people have their own lives, and that I was being "too inquisitive" for someone who needed to ease into a relationship. Which is sort of tearing me up because it gets me stuck on this "if only I hadn't done X.." even though I know that one action or question shouldn't have been enough to ruin a good relationship.
Oh, it's examples you want? WW and I would routinely write each other some 50 emails a day, during a work day. We'd keep each other appraised of what was going on, we'd continue conversations from previous days, we'd have arguments, we would plan the evening, talk about the kids and whatnot. With this girl I've been seeing for a month, we say good morning, we send pictures of our day, talk about work, joke and flirt, make plans, say how we miss each other, then goodnight. Of course it's weird that XBF wouldn't reply to "good night"! We've sung it in every way: stop wondering what's wrong with you, you just dodged a bullet.
Some tough love: of course you were too inquisitive and demanding... for him! But who cares about him? There are tons of people out there who want to communicate like you do. Asking what he means by "busy" after six months is the least you can do. Come on! I bet you know that. Stop marching to the drum of other people, especially those who don't want to be with you. Find you own drum, then go find someone with the same beat. No more deadbeats!
Don't make duration the focus of your relationships, especially not this early. Think of whether you two are a good match. Ask yourself if he makes you happy and feel good. Look for the signs that he also wants you. I'm not sure it's insightful, but I seem to notice that I can find people with the same "common sense" (which is less common than we assume) than me. Things just fall into place and I don't spend as much time explaining myself or trying to understand a tortuous (to me) reasoning. I'm not sure we can feel it right away, but sometimes in 5 seconds I know I don't fit with a girl. With New Girl, I left the first date thinking "OMG, this is the perfect match" and things are falling into place ever since.
We won't convince you with a few posts, and therapy will help, but I think you're starting to get the sense of where you're going.
OK, I think I have some rational, realistic thoughts to remember during my emotional times:
Yes, I could have done some things differently. Rather than texting pointed questions, I should have waited to talk about them on the phone or in person, so that I could calmly discuss them using "I" statements - "I feel disconnected from you when you don't fill me in on your day or ask my about mine. I feel like a low priority when I don't hear back from you regularly." etc. instead of "You mentioned living together but then said you wanted to move slowly - that's confusing." I did try to communicate my needs but I could have done so in a less threatening way (although to my credit.. this is pretty good for an average person, I would say. I'm talking about using my counseling-level skills on people who don't even know what those are).
That said, I did communicate when I wanted something, but I relied on words instead of actions in believing him when he said things would change. The actions did not back them up. Rather than continuing to push for more, I should have paused, stepped back, waited to see if he stepped up, and then when he didn't, ended it there, rather than holding on to the potential I believed could existed. Unlike in my M I gave this guy lots of space to do his own stuff and I maintained my own friends, hobbies, etc. Even with what little I was asking (it didn't really bother me that we only saw each other twice a week, but I wish both times we'd have some "alone" time instead of meeting up for dinner then going our separate ways) I was still getting crumbs.
When it comes down to it, he reacted very strongly to some very basic texts from me (like me saying "I'm confused - you said you wanted to only hang out once during the week, but then you asked me about additional nights - do you want to hang out more now?") and basically told me his work was important, that's what he wanted to do in his free time (like on nights and weekends), and that I made him feel guilty for how he spent his time. And despite my willingness to talk to him about it he chose to avoid the conflict and leave. It is not my imagination that he frequently gave me mixed messages, and he grew more distant. Probably didn't help that the first two months we were dating he had no job, so he had LOTS of free time. Then he didn't.
Things I value in a relationship: openness, honesty, sharing both the little things and the big things (so whether it's how your day was, or big stuff that's bothering you so that we can talk about it), staying in touch, having our lives become more interdependent without being DEpendent. Willingness to work through problems and use resources when necessary. Feeling like I'm a priority to someone when I am making them a priority. Work-life balance. Balance between partner time and hobby-time (my XH was way more on the hobby end of things than partner time).
All things I wrote with my counselor 2 years ago that I thought I had kept in mind, but I guess it takes some time for the "honeymoon" to wear off and really see what people are about.
Do I still feel crappy for letting him into my life, having him meet my family, exchanging Christmas presents with him, spending my birthday with him? Yeah, I do but I hope time will help resolve that.
Rather than texting pointed questions, I should have waited to talk about them on the phone or in person, so that I could calmly discuss them using "I" statements - "I feel disconnected from you when you don't fill me in on your day or ask my about mine. I feel like a low priority when I don't hear back from you regularly." etc. instead of "You mentioned living together but then said you wanted to move slowly - that's confusing." I did try to communicate my needs but I could have done so in a less threatening way (although to my credit.. this is pretty good for an average person, I would say. I'm talking about using my counseling-level skills on people who don't even know what those are).
No!!!
If you see he's treating you that way... Back away. Back further away. If he doesn't come chasing after you, HE's NOT THE ONE.
You are worth too much to have to ask him to treat you like a priorityy!!But you should STILL give any future him lots of space because that's YOU getting YOUR space and maintaining your life, which is a priority! The right guy will fit into your life, and you will fit into his. It may take a little effort, but it won't feel like effort because you will want to share with each other. Just like you said. But it plays out differently than how it feels when we write it in a list, doesn't it?
Don't feel badly about having spent Christmas, etc. with him. He was a learning experience. It's not a race to get paired up.
He got you out there and has given you the gift of further clarity on what you want and how to identify it.
Thanks, Maybell. I am really having trouble getting out of my own head on this one. One of my office mates asked me how my weekend was and I just burst out crying instead of answering. Sigh. I maybe made a mistake and in trying to analyze/fix/whatever, went and posted in a different relationship-related online forum asking if this guy was just not that into me/not available, or if I was being needy. The vast majority of responses I got back were things like:
-too much pressure
-checking in daily is way too much for that early in a relationship
-you're not living together, why do you feel like you need to know his whereabouts when you're not together? that's suffocating
-sounds like you were holding this guy accountable to you like a parent, that would drive me nuts
-sometimes we want to give other people or alone time with ourselves a priority and not be questioned about it - if you can't handle a boyfriend prioritizing you sometimes and not others, you need to work on that or you'll keep pushing healthy people away.
Jeebus. Then I go to a place of "well if I didn't know I was being smothering and crazy at the time... and actually thought I was doing a pretty good job of being autonomous and not dependent on someone... how will I ever know??" and it feels insurmountable. But also these people on this forum could be like 19 year old single people who have never been in a relationship. You all here are I would like to think more mature having been down the LTR road and actually want to fix relationships so I would hope have a better idea
Still stings like crazy though. It's like I can't move on and try and find the positive in things because I want to punish myself until I "get it." And what does it say about me that I keep wanting to rely on other's opinions to tell me what happened here?
When I first met New Guy I lost myself inside my own head for a while. Everyone who knew me IRL told me to quit overthinking everything and to have more patience. Once I stopped panicking about having met a guy I liked and started backing off, things transformed. It was like I'd made room for him. Now we know more of what's going on in each other's lives and we can respond to each other more meaningfully. He only just recently started checking in every day (we've been seeing one another almost three months) but when he does, it's always sharing something. We don't text good night usually just to say good night, but it's typically part of an ongoing conversation.
I still have a hard time believing he thinks I bring something of value to the table, but I'm working on it and he is emotionally mature enough to handle it. But I didn't identify that well on my own. I had to share his ideas with my friends and hear them comment that way. I've never been in a relationship in which we were both trying to be healthy. It feels very different. And I appreciate how he's helping me grow.
I don't think it's unhealthy to ask for help, but be sure you choose your wingmen wisely. I think you're stuck in your own head and it's going to take a big effort to pull yourself out. And I think you should keep an eye out for the people who help you become a calmer, more relaxed person. You should not feel so unworthy. You're not!!
may I suggest a calming practice? Lost all the things you're grateful for, each day. At the end of the list, add "I'm grateful for the time I spent with XBF. He was a good reminder to me to trust my gut. I'm grateful for that reminder and I will put it into practice as I move forward in my WONDERFUL life."
K-Girl,
I think you are being way too hard on yourself. Mozza and Maybell make some excellent points. You seem to be thinking in absolutes and life is rather fluid.
Perhaps try thinking of things this way...It's perfectly fine to think about the future. However, you can't control it and all you can really be in is the now. The past is over, and while you can reflect on it and learn from the experience, it is in the past.
I know it can be difficult to not get too far ahead of yourself. Just try to stay in the now. I understand you miss x-bf. It's easy to get caught up in the attention from another person-especially when you have been so hurt. I am big believer that people find love at all ages and there are lots of people for everyone. However, everyone you date, talk to, or go out with, doesn't necessarily have to turn into a LTR or marriage. It can still be a valuable and worthy R though.
Hugs to you.
My rational friends IRL who have been in long term relationships all keep telling me my expectations and needs were not unrealistic, and that people who care and are invested don't jump ship when you bring those things up. I need to keep working on believing them. It's hard though. I think having low self-esteem (whether already there or exacerbated by this whole thing) leads me to have this blame absorbing mentality - he wasn't interested enough = it's my fault = i'm not good enough. But there's probably a reason I was crying every night the whole week leading up to the breakup, and talking to my friends about how I wasn't sure how this was going to go, and how I felt like I didn't know which end was up - my gut was talking. At least I hope it was that and not making self-fulfilling prophecies out of past insecurities. I can say pretty confidentially that I was not asking him questions because I didn't trust him or thought he was doing things to hurt me - I was just being conversational and wanted to know about his day/week/things he was looking forward to!
Maybell, I appreciate what you said about still being a work in progress but that your guy was emotionally mature enough to handle it and support it. If we waited to date until we were 100% that could be.. indefinitely. I think we're all works in progress. I hope I can find someone that will be supportive and understanding when an insecurity pops up, instead of saying they understand and then not follow through.
I think I am doing better at picking up on things that are important to me vs. things to watch for, without being swayed by other stuff (or thinking "oh, that's someone I could fix! or that won't leave me!") I was poking around on a dating site and saw "I love living life without an instruction book!" in someone's profile. Sounds fun in theory but nope, I know that 's going to end up being bad news for someone like me. On the other hand, someone that writes, or even says, something like "I'm looking for a good communicator and someone to share a lot of my life with" - is more in line with my values, even if we don't have some of the same interests or hobbies.
Things I am grateful for today
-an email I got about a chartered flight/hotel deal to Biloxi, MS, where apparently there are a good deal of casinos (which led me to start thinking about vacations!)
-my friends who have been listening to me analyze this endless and are constantly reassuring me that I didn't "make" this relationship end and it's not about me being crazy or needy
-the white chocolate mocha I had this morning (we have to start somewhere..)
-my two kitties
-the caramel pumpkin swirl candle I have lit right now
-A v-day card I got in the mail from my mom with $20. While I know I can't rely on her support right now, the card is still appreciated.
-I have a nice apartment that thankfully I didn't give up for the next lease term (after spending a lot of time on craigslist searching for possible apts for me and XBF after he brought up living together)
-I really like my job and have great colleagues and students. They're awesome and my university is awesome despite our current political situation
Can I just say that just because people are family, doesn't mean you can rely on them... one of my sisters (age 27) texted me to ask how I was doing today. I said "still really sad, this [censored]." Her response: "Now you know how I feel when you and XH got married and I was left out of everything.."? What?
Me: "But you had (her husband) that whole time? He was there"
Sister: "yeah but we had a lot of troubles with living apart and him not wanting to move to an apartment with me"
I'm not sure where this is coming from but I have enough care for myself that I'm not going to get involved in this drama/revisiting past wrongs/whatever when I'm having a difficult enough time as it is. Sigh.
I thought I had really turned a corner this morning! I woke up and for the first time was not paralyzed by remembering the breakup/unable to get out of bed. I was headed to brunch and so I tried to see if I could even bring those thoughts to mind to head them off before I left, but my brain didn't even want to go there. So far so good.. until I got home from brunch and instead of doing chores like I intended with my few free hours this afternoon I spent it all on the couch sobbing and looking up break-up articles on the internet.
GALing is OK and I can make myself go and do things so I guess it can't be that bad (if I was seriously depressed I'd just be home all day every day, right?) but everything I do has an undercurrent about XBF. I went to see a movie with a friend on Thursday and thoughts kept coming about how I had never even gotten the chance to go to a movie with XBF. Went to an event yesterday with my sister and again, thought about how I was originally going to ask him to go to that event with me, and throughout it thought about how he wasn't there to share it with me. We have family game night tonight - XBF came to the last one and I'm already dwelling on how he won't be there and I miss him so d*mn much. It seems like I'm done with the beating myself up part of this/wondering if I was too clingy/needy, and now have just moved into a serious missing him stage since I don't have myself to focus on.
My friends think I should go on some dates to see what's out there and show myself there is hope. I think if I'm still hung up on XBF I shouldn't be dating, but without a timeline in sight it does seem a little hopeless (like pre-D, I told myself to wait until D was final and I had an endpoint in mind).
It's like I'm tired of feeling miserable and feeling unproductive but I don't have enough energy to do anything about it, and when I do make the effort to go hang out with friends or do something, I just end up feeling sad the whole time (guilty, even?) and then come home and cry even more. I've read all of the things you're supposed to do to get out of this funk (GAL, take care of yourself, exercise, eat well, stop yourself from thinking about the person when they start to come into your thoughts, "love yourself", blah blah) but it all seems sort of pointless. Two big rejections in a row is really hard on the heart and hope for the future.
Hey KGirl,
I thought I would venture over here from Newcomers.
I don't think you really healed from your D. I think all this pain you are feeling is residual. Your BF was a Band-Aid for you and it took away your loneliness etc. Now he's gone and you are mourning 2 relationships IMO.
I was advise against dating. Give yourself the time to heal. I rebounded once a long time ago and the R didn't last. I was devastated. My IC said I didn't heal from my first break up.
I hope you hang in there.
What goals have you set for yourself? You need something with a deadline to focus on --- a charity event, a paper you're writing for publication, a mission trip to plan for, or maybe a race you need to train for. Something that will give you a sense of achievement at the end. You need to be active in your own recovery.
Hugs again, but buck up! You've got this!
Wow, those are big types of goals. Honestly I am still unable to do things like... make dinner. Do dishes within a reasonable amount of time. Get off the couch. Not cry at work. Wear real clothes to work (we don't have a dress code but people have been commenting that I'm "dressing down" compared to usual - jeans and a flannel shirt have been par for the course lately). It feels impossible to look at bigger stuff when I can barely pull through a single day. But maybe I can focus on the one-day-at-a-time things and then set my sights higher when I get there, I don't know.
Then start small. Your goal could be a clean kitchen every night before you go to bed.
And you sound properly depressed. Please see your doctor. Take this seriously.
I agree with Maybell's small steps. I took a lot of comfort in certain routines, like posting one picture a day on Instagram. I also joined a gym 7 months after BD (still going 10 months later!). I also made sure to cook every meal I had with the kids. So find small things, like doing the dishes. Dressing properly will do wonders for you. Perhaps you can choose your clothes in the evening, when it's easier, and just step into them in the morning. Yep, that would be my first choice.
But I'd like to go back to GAL you actually enjoy. I don't think we ever got there. Forget about what you should be doing. It was helpful for m at the time to think in terms of "permission", as in giving myself permission to do certain things. Take some time to reflect on stuff you love. When you have that feeling of "OMG, could I really do... this?" or "Yes! I should have thought about this earlier", then you're getting there. Give us five such things!
It's ok to take some time to get over it. It's still your low self-esteem that's keeping you down, that sought a safe place where to hide from the pain of S. But there is no such place, where it can't happen. Hopefully you'll come out of it swinging for the fence for your next relationship.
I've read a LOT of articles about getting over break-ups, and I think I invested a little too much in the idea of "feel your grief, don't push it away, take as long as you need to to be sad" - to the point where it's consumed me. Complicated by feelings of rejection, worthlessness ("how come no one can stay with me long term??"), abandonment, feeling like I'm to blame, etc. While I know it's OK to be sad, I think there's a point where you have to stop wallowing in it lest you get stuck there indefinitely and can't live any other way/actually get to the clinical depression point. I do recognize the stuck places at least - just haven't felt motivated enough to get out of them. I guess I hoped that if I let the sad come, that eventually I'd get sick of it and be ready to move on - hasn't happened yet. Logically, for example, I know that the thought of "how could a guy who hasn't been able to hold down anything past a date or two, reject ME?" is a function of not having enough self-esteem to validate my own worth, and trying to rely on it from people who I think surely can validate it - but when they reject me it's even worse.
What was different about my XH/the divorce compared to now that somehow makes that feel easier: I lived with XH for six months after BD so I started to get really angry/mad. Being angry/mad helped. But it's hard for me to be mad at XBF because honestly I was happy and things were good for most of the time (so it feels like now, anyway. I know the last week of our R I was crying every single night because I was so confused, but a week in the grand scheme of things seems so little now). And I can excuse his behavior because he "just didn't know - he's inexperienced."
I have a counseling appt on March 10 - I booked it back when this all happened so I doubt I can get anything earlier, so I need to hold on until then.
I put on actual business casual clothes today! Hopefully that will help. I have dinner night at a friend's place tonight, and then tomorrow is an all-day conference for people in my job here in town with happy hour afterwards - it's an event we look forward to for a long time so I need to focus on staying in the moment and enjoying it. I went to a board painting party at my sister's Saturday night and found that while I was doing that, I was happy/not thinking about the whole XBF/breakup situation, so I need to recapture that in a way that it's sustainable throughout my daily activities.
GAL stuff:
-I signed up for a volunteer orientation to start volunteering at the library downtown, in the book store (selling used books as a fundraiser). That should be fun. I love reading, the library, the organizational side of stocking/shelving books, and I'll still get to interact with people through the customer service side.
-I am going to plan a trip for spring break. Not exactly sure where yet. I want to go back to Las Vegas - I seem to be drawn there after big life events (right after I moved out, and right after D was final). I feel "guilty" that I'm not trying something new so I need to figure out if I can just accept that that's what I want to do and enjoy it! I might be able to convince my sister to go so that would make it different. Otherwise I have no problem going by myself.
-I have some arts and crafts projects I would like to start (or finish, in some cases).
... so my friend is laying it out for me. By the second date, I knew this guy had: no job, no car (common for college students in my town but not full-functioning adults), no real-life relationship history, and admitted he had trouble doing things like talking to people he was interested in, maintaining eye contact, and getting off his computer and into the real world. I need to do a better job of acknowledging red flags QUICKLY and backing the F away, instead of thinking everyone is a stray puppy I need to take in and take care of/fix.
Yay for your friend! It will be quite an achievement when you reject a man who's interested in you, because he's not enough for you. (I'll just challenge the "no car" criteria: I've no car either! Yet I have two kids, a job and my life is pretty together now!) It was my own journey: before, I would stay with women for fear of hurting them by leaving and also because I was just too happy that they'd be interested in me. In the last year and a half, I've grown out of it and now I'm dating someone whom is everything I want in a person -- including being into me!
By the way, my IC kept an eye on me while I was dating. Our conversations helped me realize quickly whether I was enthusiastic or not (perhaps a friend could do this for you, as you debrief your future dates). It reminded me not to get too involved with people that attracted me mildly. When I met New Girl, the difference was obvious. I had no reservations, I was enthusiastic and hoping to make it work.
Thanks for the GAL list although... I think you can do better. It's hard to feel your enthusiasm for any of it, although I can tell that you can justify each of them. What I'd like to read is "You know what? I'm gonna finally do it!" How about going to Paris instead of Las Vegas? Cancun? Do you have a passport? How about having it prepared now? Check the specials! You can get amazing deals, especially if you're flexible. And just like that, you'll become that wordly woman who attracts the wordly and witty men!
You mentioned losing a few pounds recently. Do you think you'd be ready to join a gym? I mention it because it was one of my steps (7 months after BD though) and the routine and results did wonders for my mental health at the time. Physical activity is good for your morale. Seeing your body transform is also very affirming. It's a GAL that accumulates benefits.
So, did you dress up for your conference today? How did it feel?
It's hard for me to recognize the dating things like you described. I thought I was enthusiastic about XBF at the time.. but I think it's in my nature to want to give people a lot of benefit of the doubt.. and it's also what my job is based on ("OK, you have a 2.9 GPA and want to go to medical school.. that's OK! let's talk about how we might achieve that" is not an uncommon conversation I have with people.)
I don't really have enthusiasm for much of anything right now which is why I'm thinking depression or actual mental health issues (as opposed to just situational stuff) may be a real issue. I really have to make myself do anything like hang out with friends, do things I used to find fun, etc. I don't have a valid passport right now, sadly! I actually went and got my picture taken and started the application, thinking XBF and I might want to go somewhere (he was a dual Canadian/American citizen so he traveled to Canada periodically) so now it's hard to even finish filling out the application without thinking about that.
The conference had pros and cons. I did wear "real clothes." The keynote speaker talked about self-authenticity in the face of change. She asked us to do an exercise at our table where we wrote down a change we were recently facing in our lives, pick a postcard from the table that visualized that change, and talk about that with our tablemates. I knew I couldn't do that w/out crying so I opted out. Then she asked us to write a six word memoir about how we saw ourselves in the future.. which I also was not able to think about without getting upset. People at my table wrote things like "happy, hopeful, and always working hard" or "she did the best she could"... sigh. Then the first session I went to was about "compassion fatigue" - how do you take care of yourself when you spend your day listening to other people's trauma and issues? Which, while helpful, was also emotionally stressful. It was good, but difficult. Happy hour afterwards with a number of my colleagues was better
but I realize now that 3 beers pre-dinner does not do much for my coping skills and just makes me more sad ultimately.
KGirl,
I wanted to give you a big ol' internet hug and tell you how sorry I am to hear that you are feeling so down. I've known some dark days myself, and I understand how brutal they can be. You are brave for reaching out and being honest here.
And I would have to agree with Maybell. I've been reading your recent postings and it does seem like you might need some professional help you get unstuck. I also know from my own experience how difficult it can be to take those steps to get help. So, please know that we are all here cheering for you and wishing you well. You will get through this.
Sleep well and keep us posted.
((KGirl))
I called the mental health services for my health care provider and there aren't any earlier openings because new patient visits are a certain length of time and they only have so many slots/week. So my appointment is March 10 which I guess isn't too bad at this point (two weeks out). And I guess I don't feel like I'm an "emergency" to argue for whatever they offer people in emergency situations. Back at BD I was able to get something within a week because I was A) crying on the phone with them, B) because of that they gave me a referral to a clinic that wasn't the primary one, but is farther away.. and I did that but ended up not being all that satisfied with the person I was working with ultimately. So I don't know what else I can do at this point. I never set up a general doctor/primary care person, I just have an OB-GYN I do annual exams with.
Feeling somewhat better today, I think yesterday's combination of not following the usual routine (being at a conference in a different building, surrounded by a lot of people, with a lot of "listening" and non-active time) plus not being careful about alcohol was not helpful for me. I just need more sleep now! Did not sleep well last night (again, the drinks.. sigh).
In the meantime, I would encourage you to try St. Johns' Wort. I used just that for over a year and it helped enormously. It may not do as much for you but for sure it's better than doing nothing. Also please make sure you AT LEAST stretch thoroughly every morning when you get up, particularly if you don't want to, and try to go for a walk or something every single day to get the neurological benefit of a little exercise.
You've got to take care of yourself, KGirl. You deserve it.
Thanks, Maybell. I know I have the tools to deal with this (well at least for the next two weeks.. but I'm sure I do after that too) I just need to use them. I forgot to mention before when Mozza asked - I do have a gym membership and have been trying to go regularly. Haven't been since Sunday because of after-work obligations but don't have any reason not to make it the rest of the week. And making sure I'm not getting upset at myself for still being sad.
Today I:
-walked 1.5 miles
-went to volunteer orientation at the library and signed up for a weekly shift
-spent 15 minutes journaling where I gave myself permission to write whatever I wanted about XBF, the breakup, my thoughts, etc... and I only made it 10 minutes before I felt like I was done
-picked some affirmations to say when I find myself drifting into ruminating, obsessing, etc. so I can focus on what I'm supposed to be doing.
So.. yay?
I did not get very much sleep so I did not think it was going to be a decent day. Kept waking up and XBF's face kept popping into my brain and couldn't get back to sleep. Alarm went off and was dreading going to the volunteer orientation, thought about cancelling or saying I was sick. I realized I'd have to walk through downtown and I hadn't been there since the breakup (we'd meet up after work every week and pick a place to eat dinner). But, I made myself do it, and I survived. And the volunteer opportunity is interesting and I'm really excited about it
Something that would be hard to commit to on a weekly basis if I wasn't single so I guess that's a positive.
Took most of the weekend to recover from Friday (after what was a pretty good Thursday!) I decided to go NC with my mom for awhile. Just because she is my mom doesn't mean she is there to support me (and I suppose a therapy topic/childhood issues that relate to relationships today - trying and wanting to get her support and validation and it coming sporadically or not at all). Had a rough Friday morning after going to the dentist, being delayed half an hour and therefore missing a work meeting, and then being told I had my first cavity to fill.
Texted my mom: "I have my first cavity! argh."
Mom: "maybe you had too much boy spit in your mouth"
me: "what? that was insensitive"
mom: "no it wasn't"
me: "You know I'm taking this stuff with XBF really hard, it's not something to joke about."
mom: switches topics to something completely different and I just ignore her.
This + the last time I saw her she told me "don't talk about it because then I'll get sad too" + her texting him to try to get his attention = not something i can handle right now. Do I need to tell her that I can't talk to her right now or just ignore her phone calls or messages unless there is a direct question? She gets offended very easily and will flip it back on people so I'm foreseeing a showdown of "I'm just trying to be HELPFUL but I don't know how so I'm doing the best I can, OK? At least I'm here unlike blah blah blah or that time you didn't come visit me in the hospital when I had surgery *insert other grievance I don't remember here*"
Something that would be hard to commit to on a weekly basis if I wasn't single so I guess that's a positive.
Codependence alert!
Seriously, being in a couple, especially without kids, shouldn't be an impediment to volunteering.
I'm glad you went downtown. When I was ready, I made a point to go back to the places I had visited with WW and to create new memories of my own.
I'm not as concerned with your mental states as others. It seems like you're still functional, if not at your best. Yes, it's taking some time to get over this relationship, but what we lose in a breakup is not the past, it's the future. If you projected yourself much with him, no wonder you're upset. Still, I'm happy you have an IC appointment on the horizon.
"Too much boy spit in your mouth"? Is this a local expression I don't know? Sounds disgusting. Well, if your mother made it up and threw it at you, no wonder you feel bad for having more than one partner. I hope you have less judgmental people around you on this topic...
How's your personal dress code these days?
Hmm.. the volunteering thing brings up some good examples of problems in these relationships. With XH, we shared a car, but it was "his" car since he purchased it with his funds, so his things got first priority. He played soccer 2-3x a week, it wasn't always on consistent nights, and when he'd come home from work would be unpredictable, so I wasn't really able to do anything on a weekly basis (sounds bad, huh?) Even when I had an event far in advance that I knew about and really wanted to do, it was a huge deal to get him to come home from work at the "regular" time or ask someone for a ride or adjust his schedule. But yet, when he took the car for a trip and left it at an airport 5 hours away (to meet his buddy, instead of flying out of the airport in town where I could have dropped him off), I was expected to just deal with it and it wasn't even a question. With XBF, I found myself wanting to keep my evenings free because for most of the R I never knew when I would see him next - if he'd ask me today to do something tomorrow, for example. It wasn't until early January that I finally said "This really isn't working for me, I'd really like to talk on the weekend when we see each other about when I'll see you during the week so I can plan accordingly and not get anxious about when I might see you again." Which he said he could do, but then I felt like sort of mocked me or made a big deal about it like he was doing me a big favor... "we haven't talked yet about when we'll get together this week, we better do that." He was much more of a go with the flow, not planning ahead sort of person. Obviously problems in both areas.
Yeah, I'm functional I guess, just not in a place where I thought I'd be by now. I still find it hard to get up in the mornings. I cry once a day, minimal. Really dumb things remind me of him and throw me into a state. Like I tried to work on a grocery shopping list and look at my coupon blog, which I loved to do, but the last time I did a big coupon run XBF was here and he came to the store with me so I kept thinking about that and couldn't do it. I still have a lot of obsessive, ruminating thoughts about why this happened, was it me/was it him/was it a combination of things and what was my part in it, was it just that we were incompatible so we shouldn't have stayed together (and where's the line between incompatible and the idea that relationships aren't perfect and take work? I feel like in these 2 R's I've felt like we just needed to work out things and the other party was like "I'm not happy right now, therefore I'm outta here.") Looking forward to starting counseling next week and hoping that will help me figure it out. Sometimes I try and tell myself "he just wasn't ready for an adult relationship, that's all there is to it" but then I worry I'm being too simplistic and not self-reflective enough in tidying up my side of the street.
Yes, I did start to project myself with him! I mean, two weeks before the breakup, he brought up the idea of living together and said he would look forward to having me to "come home to" and that he was really happy with me. I met his family, he invited me to holidays (even though they didn't happen, I was hung up on the thought). So yeah, I thought there was a future here and he was in it like I was... even though he did say he "wasn't on the same page" as me. I guess I should have listened to that part and not the other parts.
My mom just made that up to be clever/funny, I'm sure. People who are not in our family think she is hilarious. Those of us who grew up/lived with her know better. She tends to put on a front but there isn't substance behind it. Apparently there are some FOO issues I need to explore here that I didn't during D - attitude being "I just ignore my family, so they can't be a source of problems."
I wore jeans today but I have an excuse - it's snowstorming out! And then I volunteer tonight, so I didn't want to spend the day schlepping around in business casual.
KG, I'm sorry. I am also a ruminator and an obsessor, and letting things just be for me, is really difficult. I have not slept much in the past week due to this.
My manfriend and I aren't completely done, but our R is ending in a similar way and I am learning it's not me and it's ok to have my own needs. My guy is in a place where he wants his cake and eat it too, and that's his deal, not mine. We really aren't on the same page right now. And I am learning that's ok. It is possible for two people to be in two different places in their lives. Those places might not be compatible with needs and boundaries.
I also met much of manfriend's family. Hi D and I got close, I met his ex (baby momma) a few times, I met most of his friends, and we spoke of a future together. However, it takes work, and both have to be willing to put it in.
I keep myself in check with my IC to guide me through life and the dating process. I do need some reassurance and some unbiased opinions on how I am handling myself, if I am repeating patterns, and what can be done to recognize it and change it.
Keep on going. Meet with the IC. You'll get a good perspective. And work on learning and letting go. I too still am working on that. It's a tough one, but it brings peace in the end.
I am still having trouble sleeping - I hope it abates soon. Had a dream that XH reappeared in my life and we were in some sort of relationship but I kept wishing for it to be XBF in the dream. Then I woke up at 4am and didn't fall back asleep until right when it was time to get up (that plus stuff from yesterday I'll mention later).
I think what my obsessions are boiling down to is: were we just incompatible (particularly in what we wanted/where he was in life to handle a 'real' mutual relationship) or was I being crazy/unreasonable again (I guess "again" is relative - and influenced by XH) in that I was codependent, too needy, possessive, jealous etc. In other words: were we incompatible and therefore a bad relationship to begin with, or were we potentially compatible people that didn't work out because my destructive behavior contributed to it? And while people keep saying cr*p like "he just wasn't the one then. There are plenty of fish in the sea" it's really not helpful at all - because what if I keep finding people that COULD be "the one" but I mess it up?
Lots of second guessing and trying to replay in my mind what happened and remember it but it's foggier as time goes by. Like, when we went to dinner and I asked him what he had going on later in the week (which he later said was "prying" and he felt "constrained" by all my questions), I thought I was being conversational and showing interest in his life and being connected, but did I have a ton of judgment/nosiness that was negative? I don't know. I try to remind myself that I felt like I wasn't important to him, that I was mostly a "weekend" girlfriend, but then I remember that he DID text me during the workday and maybe it wasn't that bad - I'm too needy.
I'm sort of hoping the IC will say "oh no, you're totally reasonable, these are normal relationship needs and he just didn't want to meet them!" and a weight will magically be lifted, but it's like some punishment-loving part of myself wants to beat myself up over my behavior whether it was reasonable to most people or not.
And, of course.. thinking that maybe we weren't in the same place/page right now leads me to thoughts like "well maybe in a few months he will be.. and then.."... I think about whether he'll contact me, realize he really misses me and I added value to his life, etc. The way he ended it he described me as being constricted and feeling guilty, like I was controlling, and apparently no value added there.
So I had my first volunteer shift yesterday and was pretty excited about it. It involves selling used books and using a cash-register. We couldn't do practice transactions but I had a manual that seemed pretty straightforward. Right when I was getting ready to pack up someone came and bought several items. I thought I was following the instructions to add each item, add tax, etc. but I got a grand total of $4.06 for $4.00 worth of merchandise (not 5.5% tax, for sure!) So I tried it a different way and got $4.17 which sounded alright.. but I later calculated and realized it wasn't, so I didn't charge the person enough. And in the process, made a mess of the sales transactions because there weren't instructions on voiding a transaction, how to record a transaction with multiple items, etc. So just sort of a mess overall. I wrote an email to the volunteer coordinator explaining what happened, asking if I had the buttons in the right order or not and some questions about the details.. but I felt SO DUMB afterwards. I have a master's degree and can't ring up $4 worth of books. Which then led me to feeling like I was a total F-up overall in life.. and missing XBF even more because I wanted so bad to tell him what happened, hear him tell me it'd be OK and I'm great like he always would (which then lead me to thinking.. he was actually pretty great, how did I scare him away!) etc. etc. So, rough day.
First off, I want to point out something that I said to Sunny the other day:
Sometimes I think we are not so unhealthy as we've been led to think by the way our interactions with the unhealthy former spouses. I was talking to a friend who had dealt with a similar situation with someone in his life and his take was: These people have different processing engines than the rest of us. You can take the same inputs and get one set of responses from healthy people and a completely different set of responses from the unhealthy ones, and there is just nothing to be done about it. So your biggest challenge isn't so much that *you* have a problem in relationships, but that your 26 years with Mr. Perfect have conditioned you to behave in a way that was effective with him but not effective with a healthy partner. Perhaps reframing the condition that way will help?
Secondly,
And while people keep saying cr*p like "he just wasn't the one then. There are plenty of fish in the sea" it's really not helpful at all - because what if I keep finding people that COULD be "the one" but I mess it up?
I'll be kind first and say that I have been struggling with this with New Guy A LOT and he has been very wise and kind about discussing it with me. He frames his responses to me in a way that supports me escaping this kind of thinking. This is what makes him the right guy for me right now. Is he the right one for always??? I have NO IDEA. But he is helping me grow for now and that is a big part of what I value in the relationship (aside from a lot of more normal things, like mutual interests, values, etc.)
Now I'm going to bop you over the head and say that anyone who does NOT support you in being your best self is NOT the right guy for you. You can not mess up with the right guy because he's going to bring out your best. He will welcome sharing his week with you. He will want to know about your week. He won't make you chase down intimacy, he'll offer it, even if it means he has to be brave. That is what emotional availability looks like.
but I felt SO DUMB afterwards. I have a master's degree and can't ring up $4 worth of books. Which then led me to feeling like I was a total F-up overall in life.. and missing XBF even more because I wanted so bad to tell him what happened, hear him tell me it'd be OK and I'm great like he always would (which then lead me to thinking.. he was actually pretty great, how did I scare him away!) etc. etc.
Quit being so down on yourself!!
If the IC says exactly what you're hoping, it won't matter, because until you believe these things from yourself, from inside your own core, it will just be another input. (And you know that the positive inputs from the IC or from your fans here are not nearly as strong in your mind as the negative ones from XH or XBF). You need a solid center of strength. This won't come from hearing validation from others -- whether it's me, XBF, the IC, or whoever.
You must FIND YOUR OWN WORTH. [b][/b]
It's in there, sweetie. Believe in it.
Now, tell me 5 things you did well yesterday. No matter how small or mundane.
This is harder than I'd think...well...
1. I did close down the bookstore successfully yesterday and put all the keys and signs in the right place.
2. I had one student appointment and answered all of her questions? Unfortunately this is slow time, in a couple weeks I'll see many more people.
3. I sat through a public presentation as part of an interview and paid attention to the whole thing and actually took notes.
Cheating and adding
from today...
4. met with a student who said when she was leaving, "I'm always so anxious before I come in here. And then I leave and I feel SO MUCH BETTER!"
(apparently I'm much better at counseling other people, than counseling myself)
5. I finished and sent off an assessment plan for our department.
Here's an important one:
-not contacting XBF, begging, pleading, asking for another chance, to reconsider, etc. At least I have the strength to say "he ended it because he couldn't handle our first fight - I have made all my apologies already. If he wants back in he knows where to find me. I'm not chasing someone that isn't interested enough."
For months, all I could talk with my IC was STBX. I would analyze her every word and move, my behavior with her, wondering about how what I said affected her, etc. At some point, my IC suggested that perhaps I was not ready for therapy because I could not focus on me. The point is that there is no point in over-analyzing his reactions to you. You'll need to think and talk only about yourself: who you are and what you want and desire. And since you want someone who loves you back, he's not even in the picture. I sense that you're not so clear about what you want and just plain assuming what you desire if only because you couldn't quite come up with a GAL list of things that make you enthusiastic.
Regarding your doubts about what you said and how you acted, a quick anecdote. I recently had to dump a girl I was dating when I met New Girl who is just perfect for me (I hope!). This other girl started having doubts about how she acted with me, what she said, etc. She was confused what she did wrong so that I would choose someone else. It was not about her using this sentence, acting this way, etc. It was about who she was: she just wasn't who I was looking for and to become that person, she would have to change her job, speech, body, interests, etc. There's nothing in it for her! I bet it's the same with this guy: if you were a match for him, he wouldn't let you go because you asked too many times what he was up to. It's not a deal breaker when you're in love. You're not wrong: you're just not his type. You're someone else's type.
We've told you several times and in many ways that you need to work on your self-esteem and forget about this guy. I understand how hard that is, but you have to see that this is your way out of this hell.
We're with you. We've been there.
Good job making the list of good things for the day. Now I expect to see you do another list like that today.
Maybell, you are a task driver
But I need that. There's not really anyone in my life (besides me, I guess) telling me to pull it together in any concrete away. Even at work no one is giving me anything to do right now so I need to come up with my own initiatives... wayy too much time to laze off and obsess at a time like this.
Things I did well today:
-Successful meeting/interaction with a student. She came in to talk about switching out of the major I advise, and said "I'm really excited about switching to this other major... but... I almost didn't want to because you wouldn't be my advisor anymore!" Reassured her we could still talk about general stuff whenever she wanted.
-I made dinner (as opposed to cereal... or pizza). OK so it was frozen fish fillets that I turned into fish tacos but still real food.
-Wrote out a long explanation of a process that was well received and understood by some faculty (they usually don't understand things I'm explaining to them)
-I went through an exercise I found online on "owning your own and letting others own theirs - transforming beliefs process". Tagline: This process is ideal for any situation where you're using faulty reasoning to take ownership of other people's feelings and behavior. If you're "blaming you" for something this process is especially relevant. - yep, sign me up. Did the whole exercise, it was informative.
That's all I've got right now. I guess this shows me that I spent wayy too much time slacking off today and not being motivated, coming up with things to do. I did meet with 3 students today but nothing particularly exceptional except for the one I noted above. I mean, I did what I was supposed to do and answered their questions, so I guess that's good?
.... I didn't cry today, does that count?
One of my friends sat my butt down virtually yesterday and gave me a hard talk: yes, I may have done some not so nice things and I can own those (like bringing up relationship issues via text or telling someone they were being sh*tty in response to him saying he lied to me...) but at the end of the day people fight, people are mean to each other sometimes, but plenty of people don't leave their partner over a fight or some terse words. Believing "I can't bring up things that are bothering me or get upset because my partner will leave" is a pretty ridiculous belief once I identified what the actual belief was behind things.
Not crying totally counts.
Your list is improving!!
Now do it again. Can you top yesterday's?
Well, hard for me to say I did anything "well" yesterday. I feel like I basically did the bare minimum - I showed up to work, I went to the meetings I was supposed to go to, I answered the emails I got during the day, but I did nothing above and beyond. I did go to the gym after work. But otherwise I ate chips and salsa for dinner and watched a bunch of Bones reruns
Then this morning I also did.. nothing. I finally got up and took a shower around one, made some lunch, and am working on a shopping list. I guess I need to keep myself busier on the weekends and have things to do - all those hours with nothing in front of me are hard.
Make a point of doing at least one hard thing each day (like a good workout) and reframe your perspective about what you do accomplish. Instead of saying nothing you did was above & beyond, say, hey, I relaxed at the end of a long week. I made my bed. I called a friend and I didn't talk about myself. I made a choice to walk away from obsessive thoughts. This isn't entirely about doing amazing things. It's also about giving yourself credit for the things you did. Even if it feels weird.
Let's see a better try tomorrow, lady.
I'll think of this more as things I "accomplished"/made an effort to do..:
Yesterday:
-I went to the grocery store with an actual plan and coupons. Haven't done that since December.
-Took a trip to the casino with a friend (even though I was tempted to call it off to sit at home and wallow), and came out $20 ahead!
Today:
-Read the newspaper. Which sounds silly but instead of reading them I've just been letting them pile up, taking out the coupons after a few days, then recycling them, because even bothering to read them has seemed pointless/like too much of an effort (more on that later)
-Got dressed, went and got some cat food so the cats wouldn't starve, stopped at bath and body works and smelled the candles and bought a particular delicious pineapple mango one. I have a candle addiction.
-Cooked one of the freezer meals that I made at a party back in December. Actual baked chicken with some veggies and rice.
-And now I'll go to the gym shortly and committing to stay through a whole TV episode from Netflix.
Goals for tonight: do dishes from dinner, take out recycling and trash, open a new savings account (I had to withdraw all my $ and close it after some car repairs this fall and I need to rebuild an emergency fund). If I feel the need to dwell on things, find something positive or that focuses on building self-esteem and self-love to read instead of stupid "why your relationship ended/how to get your ex back" cr*p.
I realize it is a serious not-good sign when I'm thinking things like "why even read the newspaper? Or do laundry? it's all so pointless" so here's hoping the professional help this week is... helpful. If one of my college students was telling me some of the stuff I've been thinking in my head I'd be physically walking them down to student health services and/or making them follow up with me to make sure they've done so. Trying to fake it until I make it hasn't done much this time. I've neglected to tell my friends and family the real extent of how I'm feeling lately because I worry they'll stage some sort of intervention on me and that's the last thing that I want to deal with - I think they're already collaborating to check up on me because my friends seem to be taking turns asking "How are you? what are your plans for the day? what will you be doing later?" etc. They have indicated that I should be "over this" by now and finding other guys to date and that I should just "forget that d-bag, he's a man-child" but it's not that simple. And easy for them to say when they're all securely married or about to be.
....I also cleaned the kitchen counters and the toilet. Two thumbs up. Filling for my first cavity tomorrow and I wish I could bring a cat with me
KGirl, it sounds like you are doing ok. You are taking care of the basics, eating, cleaning, working. Your goals are reasonable and reachable. Hang in there, get your professional help and keep posting.
Do you have a clear picture of what it is you want in a relationship? Not necessarily a list, although some people find that helpful, but a vision. A mental image of a great day with someone. Find a quiet place, spend some time on this, let your mind drift to where ever it does, there's no right or wrong here. Imagine your perfect day, where are you, who are you with? Hold on to small details, he opens the door for you, puts his hand in the small of your back. Are you cooking together? At a street fair? What does he say? Spend some time on this and come back and tell me what you found out.
KGirl, how are you today?
Yes, I want to hear about the IC visit! Sometimes our support network put too much hope into these 45-minute conversations, but they can give us food for thought. I hope it went well.
I'm here, I'm here!
The IC visit was today - since it was a first one/evaluation it was an hour and a half long. It was exhausting - spent most of it in tears and then still went to work in the afternoon. We went over my background w/ XH and the divorce, meeting XBF, some of the issues that I encountered with him, the breakup, and then how I've been feeling since then and my thoughts.
She basically said that she didn't see anything pathological or "wrong" for me to be beating myself up over in terms of it being my fault for things ending... "now, if you had ten relationships where people kept breaking up with you, perhaps there's an issue. You've had TWO." But acknowledged that there are always things to learn and take away from a break up, and perhaps in this case it's more about patterns of getting involved with certain types of people than anything about my behavior or actions. She said it seemed like I did a good job of indicating when I was unhappy, expressing my feelings, asking for what I wanted... but then the issue was when I didn't get those things, I stuck around and kept pushing for more (out of my control), instead of making a decision to either let the issue go or let HIM go (within my control). And, that I could have very well been secure/not codependent at the beginning but when people start distancing and paying less attention, it's natural for anyone to start to get more clingy/anxious/insecure in response. She noted that XBF and I seemed to be at very different scales of how much companionship/closeness we wanted - and mentioned that his history of only internet relationships was indicative of how he likes distance and independence. And, she affirmed that asking about people's days, what they're up to, etc. is a normal part of being in relationships and wanting to know more about them and how they "are" in their life.
So, my homework until we meet next (which won't be until March 31 because she's gone during spring break) is:
-not letting myself go down the path of blaming myself, it's all my fault, etc. - we'll figure that out later on and what is actually reasonable to learn and change from this. She encouraged me to focus on staying busy and whatnot rather than try and "figure stuff out" - ? not sure about this but maybe it's what I need right now until I'm in a processing sort of place.
-get a sleep aid because sleep is important to feeling better (picked some up today)
-try to work out every day
-get outside
-journal
-read a book for fun - not for self-help or work
-try something new
-give myself permission to not go above and beyond. I mentioned that I felt like my chores and household stuff was not going well and I just felt like watching my fav TV shows a lot of the time and she said "So why not do that? Can you give yourself permission to do things you enjoy and that make you feel comfortable and not be hard on yourself about things you feel like you 'should' be doing?"
Re: depression, we did an inventory and she felt like my symptoms were within the normal range of grief for being 6 weeks post-breakup, especially considering how I serious I thought the relationship was, and some of the grief that is coming up from XH, too. So she did not refer me to a psychiatrist/for medication at this time but gave me her direct line # in case things changed and said we'll keep an eye on things.
I really like this IC and think she will challenge me. She said she was excited to work with me because she felt like I was in a really good place to be successful and motivated to get help - that when people are in a painful place it tends to be more effective. And, that she had a lot of ideas of things we can talk about next time... particularly getting more into my parents and immediate family issues.
Sunny, I'll have to think more about your question, I haven't really yet. I do know that some of the happiest days I had w/ XBF were days where we went out and did something interesting besides just go out to eat (like go to the zoo, or an event at a park), and then when we were snuggled up later just talked about anything and everything that popped into our heads and asked each other things, it felt like we were both being very vulnerable and open with each other - I would call it "serious question time"!
Sigh.. thinking about that makes me miss him so much. There really were a lot of good times... when we were together and he actually wanted to talk to me! IC said it seemed like I was putting in a LOT of effort into the relationship to keep it afloat, him not so much. I find myself daydreaming sometimes about what if he figures out he made a big mistake, shows up at my door or at my work and begs me to come back, how would I respond, etc.
I think in reality he's not thinking much about that at all and is instead spending a lot of time working on stuff for work/on his computer.
I'm impressed with all that you've accomplished with your IC. It looks very promising. I especially like that she brought up the concept of "permission". There's a lot there. A permission is for something that you've long desired but didn't act on.
I'm feeling better on the "it's all my fault, I did something wrong to ruin this relationship and make him leave" front, so that's good. The question of "would you have actually married/been with this guy long term?" gave me some pause. My gut reaction is to say "YES... but..." followed by things I would have wanted him to change (be more open, tell me more things, want to spend more time with me, etc.) so basically only under conditions that didn't exist. Which means unless some miracle happened and he woke up and magically decided to be what I wanted him to be, it wasn't going to happen anyway. I was happy with how things were in the beginning but as time progressed, I wanted the relationship to be more involved and progress, and he was content to keep it the same.. I'm envisioning a graph where my line goes diagonally up (where I was more distant at first but got more invested as time went on) and his just stayed flat.
But... doesn't stop me from missing him. Today I'm feeling particularly overwhelmed by those grief thoughts. I don't know if that means I need to be more careful in the future not to get too involved with someone right away, or if it's just what's going to happen as you're dating and getting into relationships with people. I don't want to hold back but when I get comfortable and vulnerable it's going to hurt if it doesn't work out. Time to go do some journaling I guess..
I'm sorry you are sad, and missing him. I do think it is a part of dating and relationships. When you do let someone in beyond a superficial level, it's pretty normal to miss them and grieve for them. You with your ex since you were kids. This seems to be your first dating/adult relationship since the D and as an adult. So, it's going to sting a bit and maybe a little longer. Don't let this hold you back from letting anyone else in a again. I think sometimes we just need to be aware this a normal part of the process, even if it stinks.
Yes, my XH and I started dating when we were 17, and this was my first relationship post-D (I went on first/sometimes second dates with 4 guys before I met XBF so not even that much dating experience!), so yep, only my second adult relationship. It [censored]. But, I've noticed I'm not thinking about it as much and not thinking so much about it being my fault, so I think that's good. It is somewhat daunting to think about how many more people I may have to let in before I find "the one" (or "the next one" after XH, I guess!)
Bah.. I don't know what it is about today but I feel like I'm backsliding and wanting to cry at work again, and I had a bunch of days where I wasn't crying at all! Is it the weather (rainy and windy and gross here) or not getting enough sleep or something else in my brain? I'm frustrated that for a 2nd time I got into a situation where I believed that someone was more invested in me/the R than they actually were, and rather than talk about what was bothering them or the issues they were able to just walk away, leaving me wondering what the heck happened. How do I break out of this pattern?? Am I doomed to keep getting overly invested and interested in people when they don't feel the same way about me? How come I'm not recognizing that they don't feel similarly or as into it as I am? &$*#@&!*$! I hate that I invested this time and energy with this person and I'm having trouble getting him out of my head today. So many random things remind me of him and times we had together, even at work. We'd sometimes meet up at the student union for drinks/hanging out and I go there regularly for events and it S*CKS. I keep wondering what he's up to, if he misses me as much as I miss him (probably not because wouldn't he do something about it if he did?), if he's seeing someone or dating already, if he's happier without me, etc. I feel like *I* wasn't done with the relationship yet even if perhaps I would have gotten there on my own eventually.
Am I doomed to keep getting overly invested and interested in people when they don't feel the same way about me? How come I'm not recognizing that they don't feel similarly or as into it as I am? &$*#@&!*$!
The answer to this probably lies in your childhood. Did someone abandon you or die on you? Is there some reason why you don't think you "deserve" someone who adores you? Did you have a parent who was difficult to please? Are you an adult child of an alcoholic?
Unravel the source and you will start to learn not to keep making the same mistake.
Welp, I probably did something I shouldn't have. A couple of weeks ago I turned my online dating profile back on just to see what was out there. Didn't initiate or investigate anyone, just let it sit. Got all sorts of messages of course because that seems to be how these things go, but one stood out to me, checked him out, messaged back.. which turned into a first date, after which I was sort of "meh" but figured if he asked again I would go. So that turned into a second date after which I was even less excited/more leaning towards no, but he asked me out again right away. After much internal debate I decided to give him another shot because I know people are often shy or nervous the first time or two you meet them (I am completely not shy..!)
Had a third date yesterday, really wasn't feeling it still, decided as we were leaving the restaurant this was going to be a no for me moving forward, I just wasn't excited about the potential of meeting up with him again and had no inkling of interest of anything physical with him at all. Afterwards he went in to kiss me, super awkward, it ended up being a hug and a kiss on the cheek
I'm fully prepared to send him a "it was nice hanging out with you but.." text if he writes back asking to hang out again, but maybe he got the hint afterwards.
So this guy seems like a very nice guy, has his sh*t together, is a special education teacher, very polite, etc. etc. Seems to have similar values to what I do. But I just COULDN'T get interested in him in a romantic way. I wish I could have been! I tried to keep an open mind after the first date and get to know him but just something about his mannerisms/how he talked/etc. that you can't find out online, just wasn't clicking or attractive to me at all. And he was.. boring. I felt like I ended up doing most of the talking and he laughed about things I said but I had no reaction really to anything he said.
Now I feel guilty about rejecting someone that seemed to be into me. And frustrated at myself that I can't like nice guys. Surely there has to be a nice guy out there that is also somewhat interesting and that I'd have some chemistry with, right?? Or is my most recent experience clouding my judgment and making me uninterested in anyone... : / Oh well, if I miss out on this guy I don't feel like I've missed out on "the one" even if I was in a better place to be attracted to a good catch, so I'll have to trust in that feeling. Taking a break from dating until I can talk to my IC more.
It seems you did just fine. You gave a chance (and a second and third one) to a potential suitor, it didn't click, then you moved on. This is normal and it happens all the time. It is part of the process for choosing someone. You did not let go of a catch at all. You were lukewarm from the beginning and gave the guy plenty of opportunities to woo you. He didn't. I don't quite understand why you beat yourself over it. I don't even see a link with your recent breakup. What you just had was a normal, healthy dating experience. Well done for not going further!
You shouldn't go to dates wondering if he's the One (a concept I've never heard outside the US). If anything, if you want something serious, you should go to dates looking for reasons to dump them. When you find one that you just can't let go despite your best attempts, because you truly truly want more of him, that's when you have a catch. You'll be elated you found someone like that, believe me!
If you try to be attracted be attracted to every man who cleans up well and has a job, you'll catch the first guy out of the bus. Attraction and love are very special feelings and while, in the long run, we may choose to love someone, it has to be built on a basis of strong mutual attraction. Don't force it or you'll be unhappy and turn into a WAW in no time.
Again, for most people, your recent experience would be very banal. Don't let it get to you. Move on to the next prospect whenever you're ready.
By the way, responding to guys who email you is not as good as browsing for guys who interest you. You shouldn't just be reactive in this very, very important life decision. Raise the bar and go for it!
I think you did the exact right thing. Even though you didn't feel anything right away, you gave it a fair chance, and ended it knowing it wasn't going anywhere. That showed respect to yourself and your date.
Last summer I decided to dive into the online dating pool. I went on some first dates but never any seconds. I'm the type who knows if something, anything is there, right away, else I ditch it. I got the " you are being too picky, give them a chance" lecture from a few. So I went on two dates with a guy when I knew there was no attraction or interest whatsoever. I tried, and I found out on the second date he was really bitter towards his son's mom, I just knew it wasn't going anywhere. So I politely let it go.
I still tried. I went on a date with a guy and it was actually a nice date. I got a little excited about it, even though I didn't get "that" feeling. he was funny, we laughed, and when I got up to use the restroom he ordered a dessert with ice cream because he remembered I had told him it was my favorite dessert. We planned to discuss a second date. However, 2 days later I met exNG and I knew immediately I was going to fall in love with him. And I did, lol.
You don't have to date a guy just because he has a good job and treats you well. You really did give it a fair shot. Like Mozza mentioned, if you force it, you will turn into an unhappy WAW type. Mozza gave you awesome advice. Look for ones that interest you, instead of only ones that email you. Good luck, and I'll be rooting for you
KGirl I'm so excited you moved in that direction! Exactly what Mozza and Ginger said -- except that it shows you exercising healthy boundaries and judgment. Good job.
Why did you say you probably shouldn't have turned your profile back on? And I'm with you -- passively letting things happen for right now, till you feel motivated to be proactive, can be useful in helping you move your mind into the idea of dating without having to actually spend your time on people. There's plenty of time to go looking for who you want down the road, when you feel more enthusiastic about the endeavor.
Happy hunting, KGirl, and keep us posted!!!
Re: why shouldn't have turned the profile on, how does this relate to the last relationship - I'm not sure if I was "ready" yet and maybe it was too soon. I sort of worry that had I been in a better mindsight (more over XBF, more happy being on my own and loving myself, etc.) that then I would have been more attracted/interested in this guy, someone who in theory has the values and qualities that I say I want and would be good for me, but because of where I am (and now I'M emotionally unavailable, maybe?) I wasn't interested? And maybe if I kept giving him a chance or pulled my sh*t together I WOULD be interested? And now I've lost another potential good prospect in what seems to be a dwindling pool of good prospects? Some of my friends are telling me I'm being too picky especially since I couldn't say what exactly I was so ambivalent about, so I kept trying to be open-minded. But probably no matter what I'd still feel "blech" thinking about listening to his voice or his general demeanor or that I held up most of the conversation (all those things you don't know about from online profiles but are still really important!)
I was kind of hoping he'd just fade away. But he texted me today saying that he really liked spending time with me so far and that three dates has given him time to think and realize he'd like to spend more time together, how did I feel? So I had to send the rejection text. I did it as nicely as I could ("I think you're a really nice guy but it's just not clicking for me in that way.. best wishes"), didn't apologize (because I shouldn't feel sorry!) but I still feel super cr*ppy about it because I'm usually on the other end and know how it feels. Cried for a bit. I've never actually had to reject someone like this, in my whole life. There were a few guys I went on 1-2 dates with after D was final and I knew I wasn't interested but they just didn't contact me again so I didn't have to deal with it. This was SO MUCH HARDER than I expected. Maybe it's part of feeling like I need to be "nice" and not hurt people's feelings.
... go figure, I get a message from someone on match. He seems interesting, I scroll through the pictures - one of them looks very much like the backdrop from the holiday party I went to with XBF for his work. Yep, guy works at the same place. What are the odds that someone from a 100-person company, in a town of 200,000+ people, would find me? Maybe I got a referral
So I had to send the rejection text. I did it as nicely as I could ("I think you're a really nice guy but it's just not clicking for me in that way.. best wishes"), didn't apologize (because I shouldn't feel sorry!) but I still feel super cr*ppy about it because I'm usually on the other end and know how it feels. Cried for a bit. I've never actually had to reject someone like this, in my whole life.
KGirl, you did just fine. What would have been cr*ppier is if you had let it drag out. Giving a fair shot is one thing, stringing someone along is another. There have been a couple of guys I dated for about a month (each, not at the same time!) and then broke up with them. It wasn't easy, but it was right.
Look, here's the important thing about dating:
you SHOULD go out with people that you feel an attraction towards - and if it wasn't happening for you in 3 dates, it was probably not going to. This will happen a LOT, that a guy looks good on paper but no chemistry in person. Chalk it up to pheromones, subtle clues about his true personality, whatever - but it happens.
The FLIP side of the coin is that ATTRACTION IS NOT ENOUGH. So if you meet a guy that you're wildly attracted to, but he's an alcoholic chronic adulterer without a job or ambitions - uh, no.
The trick for you, is to not keep making the mistake of going for guys who attract you, but because of old unconscious scripts, are poor choices for partners. For instance, I have a friend who grew up in a family with alcoholism - not her nuclear family, but the extended family. Her alcoholic uncle was the interesting, charming, warm father figure she wished her dad could be. So as an adult, if there's an alcoholic in the room - in recovery or not - that's inevitably the guy she finds attractive, even if that fact is unknown to her at the time.
So if you usually find your self attracted to unavailable guys - you need to be very very careful about not dating those guys, EVEN IF you find them attractive. You need to wait for the guys you find attractive who are ALSO good choices on paper for you.
Still here! I'm OK, I guess. Ups and downs. Some days are perfectly fine, other days not so much. I feel lifted out of the sort of all-pervasive depression I was most certainly in up until about a month ago. Went on another date last week with a friend of a friend. Nothing terribly wrong, just... not interested, again. I feel sort of disillusioned with online dating and either am uninterested in anyone, or the people that I am interested in I've started to message and they don't reply. So that aspect of things sort of s*cks right now.
My IC noted that it seems like a lot of my worth or value comes from being in a relationship. I don't know that I think I am any less valuable or worthwhile.. but it is important to me as a life goal, I want someone to share my life and day-to-day stuff with and experiences, and if I'm not working towards that or seeing progress, it's hard. Some of my coworkers are in their early 50's and either never married or divorced 10+ years ago and have said they have no interest in being in a relationship or dating and they are perfectly fine on their own. I just cannot envision that sort of life - it's not what I want and I'm worried about it. Sigh. And then my thoughts meander to XBF and how I was at least mostly happy and maybe if I hadn't been so demanding etc. etc.
Days like today I just want him to come back and I wonder if he thinks of me. And I'm mad at XH for wasting my college years when I could have met someone who would stick around.
I'm just going to throw this out there to see how it lands on you...
I had a "relationship" in college that was a complete disaster as far as my emotional health went. He was much older than me so I figured he "got" the relationship thing and so how he behaved was normal. In certain ways it wasn't that different than my parents. What a train wreck!! Totally ruined my sense of "relationship" and consequently I ended up four years later with Mr. Fantastic, having never done the work of figuring out what a relationship is.
Your XH did not waste your college years unless YOU fail to learn from that relationship.
Frankly, I think you need to jump off the dating train. IMO you are attaching too much importance to those experiences and failing to see the enormous potential of your own beautiful life. Remember: WHEN IT IS TIME, you'll be looking for SPRINKLES. You are already a beautifully frosted cupcake. Don't date till you believe it.
Maybell, once again, hits it out of the park. And I have a lot to learn from her advice too.
Having a relationship does not prove you are a worthy person. You already are one.
Big hugs to you.
KGirl,
Please start a new thread when you have a chance. Your postings/replies are over the 100 posting limit.
Thanks!